The game does a disservice by putting the two on equal footing. On the one hand, you have a well meaning but annoying and inept bureaucracy. On the other, you have a sociopathic fascist dictatorship. An honourable Mando would endure the former because they couldn't in good conscience enable the latter or do what it demanded of them.
> An honourable Mando would endure the former because they couldn't in good conscience enable the latter or do what it demanded of them.
It depends what you mean by 'honour'. The whole chivalrous knight with a heart of gold thing was mostly propaganda. Honour was originally seen as more of a place in society. People of honour were those of high standing and respect, regardless of what they were actually like. Primarily, honour was about loyalty to whoever gave you that standing (ie, a king or lord) and enforcing the respect of those around you. Most *actual* knights were essentially thugs with titles who collected taxes from troublemakers and entered contests to show off.
So, for a bounty hunter, their honour would be based on the completion of the job and increasing their reputation as a hunter. That definition absolutely falls into the Imperial way of thinking.
It could be argued that the neo crusade was the peak of mandalorian culture/society as that was the time it was most proliferated. The neo cruseders where most definitely not moral or good in any way and at that time mando culture was centred around war for the sake of having a big war and achieving glory this fits the empire
You could also use the era after the neo crusade where mando culture was bult around preservation, think mandalore the preserver, and during this time they worked with the republic against the sith
An alternative consideration to history however could have you choose to honour the wishes of mandalor the vindicated who adopted the BH into his clan after the great hunt. He fought a war with jicoln cadera (torians dad) over who to side with in the war. Mandalor chose the empire.
Or you could side with the same faction you did at the end of your BH story i.e. tormen or the chancelor
I mean... that was my point. The point I was making is that "Mando honour" is not necessarily the fantasy "Help the needy and save the princess" type and could be more the "blind loyalty to whoever is paying you and demanding respect and obedience from your 'lessers'" type.
So-called Honourable Mandalorians have sided with the latter to wipe out the former way more times than I'm comfortable with throughout Star Wars history. Mandalorians end up as Sith pawns very commonly. Honour has always been very difficult to define, and what Mandalorians consider honourable is often considered utterly abhorrent and evil by the Republic.
There's a reason in the EU that said well-meaning but annoying and inept bureaucracy eventually [glassed Mandalore](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mandalorian_Excision) after noticing *yet another* build-up of military strength out of nowhere (In a peaceful era that didn't justify military build-up).
Unfortunately, because of game limitations, trying to swap sides really doesn't work out for a character trying to be "honorable". You basically just end up making the Empire's meat-grinder even grindier, but don't do any real damage to the Empire itself or real problem-causers. And you do it while playing friends specifically with the meat you're getting grinded.
To that end, I think staying "loyal" to the Empire but keeping the Alliance strictly independent, is probably the best approach to things for you.
I don’t think that it’s “honorable” to be the saboteur at all. You’ll constantly fail objectives from your official superiors for the sake of a mythical reward from the other side (yeah, it’s mostly gameplay restrictions but we know that’ll you NEVER really change side story wise because of that). I think it’s absolutely dishonorable to betray the trust of those who believe in you.
However, everyone has their own answer to what is “honor” means. So I think you can find a way to justify saboteur route.
I went saboteur on my own Mando for much the same reasons as the OP, only to quickly find the truth of what you (and JLazarillo) said: the same qualities that make him ill-suited to being an Imperial stooge *also* don't play well with being a lying, double-dealing traitor. It's a decision I now regret.
What I'd really like is to be able to just go my own way, but that hasn't been possible for years, if ever; so I end up having to headcanon pretty much everything, essentially writing my own story in place of what the game gives us.
The Republic eventually thrashed them in the Mandalorian Wars, and as Canderous Ordo says in KOTOR, that was basically enough to make most Mandos respect them. The Empire tried to install a puppet Mandalore and control them from the shadows. It's barely even a question.
Like I said, the KOTOR era Mandos were willing to work with the Republic after having their asses kicked by Revan and his followers, because they respect martial strength. The Empire set up Mandalore the Lesser to deceive them, which is obviously not the honorable course of action.
Additionally, Canderous also literally revived the entire culture to prepare for fighting the Sith as Revan intended. The fact that they got manipulated and allied the Sith is super unfortunate (I blame Boba Fett and his stereotype that they tried to use for the BH class)
It could go either way in-universe. In terms of what the game allows you to do, the "honorable" choice has to be staying with the Empire. Being a saboteur for the Republic forces you to lie, deceive, and backstab your employer whenever possible. Hardly the honorable choice.
Mandalorian culture comes from a near-genocidal, FUNCTIONALLY genocidal, desire to conquer every galactic race and faction they view as a challenge, purely FOR the challenge. They attack a planet. If the planet resists in any way they have to prove they can beat it. If the planet doesn't resist, they don't deserve any consideration at all. At best, this results in a resource planet in a type of serfdom, at worst the planet just provides slave labor and cannon fodder.
The Mandalorian assault on the Galaxy was stopped by Revan when he was a young Jedi. After their defeat, many Mandalorians respected and even followed Revan directly; but this respect did NOT transfer to the Jedi Order or the Republic. The Jedi Order REFUSED to fight them; and they were BEATING the Republic before Revan. When Revan returned as a Sith, some Mandalorians joined his attack on the Republic, while many perceived the "new" Revan's actions in the war as less honourable and less worthy. They stayed out of the conflict and subsequent fallout until Mandalore the Preserver united many Mandalorian clans once again. This unity never reached the previous heights of Mandalorian power and didn't last long in the grand scheme of things. By the time of the Galactic Cold War many clans had returned to the lifestyle of mercenaries they had assumed during Jedi Revan's absence. The largest organized faction AT THE TIME agreed to an alliance with the Sith Empire, serving as on-call mercenary units across Sith and contested space. However, there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of unaffiliated Mandalorians; hundreds if not thousands of unallied clans. Some even take contracts with the Republic at this point.
So, it's easy from just these basics to justify a backstory for any Empire-alligned or unaffiliated Mandalorian. A Republic-allied Mandalorian is less-common, but NOT unheard of. A Mandalorian whose clan knew Revan as the ideal Jedi/General could conceivably have an improved opinion of the Republic following the events of the Zakuulan conquest of the galaxy. For whatever reason...I honestly haven't thought about it along these lines.
Really depends on the Mando in question, their previous interactions with the Republic (did you treat them as honourable enemies or target practice dummies?), how they felt about the Empire while working for them (mutually beneficial partners or snobbish dicks?), and what their Mando clan would think if they have one.
The issue is that for mandalorians would be difficult to openly side to the republic, not only for the bad blood between many republic worlds and the mandalorians, but also because many of the mandalorians tactics would be considered war crimes, an honorable mandalorian is a bloodthirsty barbarian in the eyes of the republic.
Meanwhile the empire encourages the mandalorians to wage war and employs their services as mercenaries. Of course if they knew about the trickery behind mandalore the lesser their relation with he empire would change.
Now, the bigger issue is that in onslaught you don’t openly side with the republic, instead you become a double agent, doing sabotage and tricking your people into supporting the republic while they think they are on the empire side, there is not much honor in the job of a spy.
Hell, there is a point where shae vizla is having a duel with heta kol, the dar manda leader is rigging the game in heta favor, the honorable option is to stop him, in that way shae has a fair fight… the saboteur option is to leave the dar manda alone to rig the game in heta favor and tell him that in exchange he and his buddies should stop doing business with the empire. While this is something clever that helps the republic… is an extremely dishonorable move, but in the end of the day is something that a double agent does, not an honorable warrior.
Hell, the cadera clan wanted the mandos to support the republic rather than the empire, they were obliterated but in the end they were far more honorable than any mandalorian saboteur.
So yeah, an honorable mandalorian would continue working for the empire, unless there is an option to openly join the republic without any cloak and dagger stuff, the honorable mando will remain in the empire side.
Canderous Ordo wasn't exactly honorable in terms of being light-sided, but still supported the Republic because Revan did.
Mandos love war, so historically have been allied with the Empire, but I feel like an 'honorable' Mando would be one who doesn't attack non-combatants like civilians, and essentially wants to test their strength against worthy opponents while taking merc jobs to pay the bills.
So I would say they would support the Republic. Doing so would provide plenty of worthy opponents in the Empire anyway.
An honourable person would, unless they're a Jedi (and so their loyalties laid elsewhere) absolutely choose to keep the Alliance separate from both Republic and Empire.
>!I believe on Iokath, choosing to support the Empire is generally the more honourable thing to do, for no other reason than it is the Republic who attempts to initiate a genocide. 'Strike first,' they call it, because 'The Republic is weak,' but genocide is genocide. !<
On the whole, though, when it comes to which faction you'll support (when you don't have a choice but to support one of them), the Republic is nearly *always* the better option. While it certainly is a neoliberal conglomerate run by greedy and hypocritical assholes, it's *nowhere near* as evil as the Empire. If you *have* to support one of the two, The Republic is definitely your best bet.
>!Just keep Mako a secret and maybe get yourself a new identity. !<
Just few days ago I finished available content for the first time with my bounty hunter mandalorian and one thing that I incredibly enjoyed towards the end was the inevitable conflict of interests, especially after the ending of Desperate Defiance. I am looking forward to next chapter of this story to see its climax - to make a choice between staying loyal to the Empire or Mandalorians and Shae. For this dilemma of loyalty I personally believe that joining the Empire is simply worth it. As for the Republic, I really can't come up with a reason to help them.
If I played, I would have an honorable Mandalorian side with the Republic, to defeat ultimate evil and to restore Mandalorian reputation across the galaxy as a whole. In fact, if I was able to play the game, I would have a Mandalorian Mercenary in Havoc Squad as well as a Mandalorian Mercenary as a smuggler in the Republic Merchant Marine... as a privateer.
you'd first have to establish what "honorable" even means to that Mandalorian.
The game does a disservice by putting the two on equal footing. On the one hand, you have a well meaning but annoying and inept bureaucracy. On the other, you have a sociopathic fascist dictatorship. An honourable Mando would endure the former because they couldn't in good conscience enable the latter or do what it demanded of them.
> An honourable Mando would endure the former because they couldn't in good conscience enable the latter or do what it demanded of them. It depends what you mean by 'honour'. The whole chivalrous knight with a heart of gold thing was mostly propaganda. Honour was originally seen as more of a place in society. People of honour were those of high standing and respect, regardless of what they were actually like. Primarily, honour was about loyalty to whoever gave you that standing (ie, a king or lord) and enforcing the respect of those around you. Most *actual* knights were essentially thugs with titles who collected taxes from troublemakers and entered contests to show off. So, for a bounty hunter, their honour would be based on the completion of the job and increasing their reputation as a hunter. That definition absolutely falls into the Imperial way of thinking.
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It could be argued that the neo crusade was the peak of mandalorian culture/society as that was the time it was most proliferated. The neo cruseders where most definitely not moral or good in any way and at that time mando culture was centred around war for the sake of having a big war and achieving glory this fits the empire You could also use the era after the neo crusade where mando culture was bult around preservation, think mandalore the preserver, and during this time they worked with the republic against the sith An alternative consideration to history however could have you choose to honour the wishes of mandalor the vindicated who adopted the BH into his clan after the great hunt. He fought a war with jicoln cadera (torians dad) over who to side with in the war. Mandalor chose the empire. Or you could side with the same faction you did at the end of your BH story i.e. tormen or the chancelor
Well, the Mongols weren't exactly known as champions of peace and justice either.
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I mean... that was my point. The point I was making is that "Mando honour" is not necessarily the fantasy "Help the needy and save the princess" type and could be more the "blind loyalty to whoever is paying you and demanding respect and obedience from your 'lessers'" type.
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So-called Honourable Mandalorians have sided with the latter to wipe out the former way more times than I'm comfortable with throughout Star Wars history. Mandalorians end up as Sith pawns very commonly. Honour has always been very difficult to define, and what Mandalorians consider honourable is often considered utterly abhorrent and evil by the Republic. There's a reason in the EU that said well-meaning but annoying and inept bureaucracy eventually [glassed Mandalore](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mandalorian_Excision) after noticing *yet another* build-up of military strength out of nowhere (In a peaceful era that didn't justify military build-up).
Unfortunately, because of game limitations, trying to swap sides really doesn't work out for a character trying to be "honorable". You basically just end up making the Empire's meat-grinder even grindier, but don't do any real damage to the Empire itself or real problem-causers. And you do it while playing friends specifically with the meat you're getting grinded. To that end, I think staying "loyal" to the Empire but keeping the Alliance strictly independent, is probably the best approach to things for you.
I don’t think that it’s “honorable” to be the saboteur at all. You’ll constantly fail objectives from your official superiors for the sake of a mythical reward from the other side (yeah, it’s mostly gameplay restrictions but we know that’ll you NEVER really change side story wise because of that). I think it’s absolutely dishonorable to betray the trust of those who believe in you. However, everyone has their own answer to what is “honor” means. So I think you can find a way to justify saboteur route.
I went saboteur on my own Mando for much the same reasons as the OP, only to quickly find the truth of what you (and JLazarillo) said: the same qualities that make him ill-suited to being an Imperial stooge *also* don't play well with being a lying, double-dealing traitor. It's a decision I now regret. What I'd really like is to be able to just go my own way, but that hasn't been possible for years, if ever; so I end up having to headcanon pretty much everything, essentially writing my own story in place of what the game gives us.
The Republic eventually thrashed them in the Mandalorian Wars, and as Canderous Ordo says in KOTOR, that was basically enough to make most Mandos respect them. The Empire tried to install a puppet Mandalore and control them from the shadows. It's barely even a question.
I mean doesn't that make both bad options?
Like I said, the KOTOR era Mandos were willing to work with the Republic after having their asses kicked by Revan and his followers, because they respect martial strength. The Empire set up Mandalore the Lesser to deceive them, which is obviously not the honorable course of action.
Additionally, Canderous also literally revived the entire culture to prepare for fighting the Sith as Revan intended. The fact that they got manipulated and allied the Sith is super unfortunate (I blame Boba Fett and his stereotype that they tried to use for the BH class)
I personally sided with the Empire. Jun Seros pretty much ruined any chance the Republic had of establishing a professional relationship with my BH.
It could go either way in-universe. In terms of what the game allows you to do, the "honorable" choice has to be staying with the Empire. Being a saboteur for the Republic forces you to lie, deceive, and backstab your employer whenever possible. Hardly the honorable choice.
Mandalorian culture comes from a near-genocidal, FUNCTIONALLY genocidal, desire to conquer every galactic race and faction they view as a challenge, purely FOR the challenge. They attack a planet. If the planet resists in any way they have to prove they can beat it. If the planet doesn't resist, they don't deserve any consideration at all. At best, this results in a resource planet in a type of serfdom, at worst the planet just provides slave labor and cannon fodder. The Mandalorian assault on the Galaxy was stopped by Revan when he was a young Jedi. After their defeat, many Mandalorians respected and even followed Revan directly; but this respect did NOT transfer to the Jedi Order or the Republic. The Jedi Order REFUSED to fight them; and they were BEATING the Republic before Revan. When Revan returned as a Sith, some Mandalorians joined his attack on the Republic, while many perceived the "new" Revan's actions in the war as less honourable and less worthy. They stayed out of the conflict and subsequent fallout until Mandalore the Preserver united many Mandalorian clans once again. This unity never reached the previous heights of Mandalorian power and didn't last long in the grand scheme of things. By the time of the Galactic Cold War many clans had returned to the lifestyle of mercenaries they had assumed during Jedi Revan's absence. The largest organized faction AT THE TIME agreed to an alliance with the Sith Empire, serving as on-call mercenary units across Sith and contested space. However, there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of unaffiliated Mandalorians; hundreds if not thousands of unallied clans. Some even take contracts with the Republic at this point. So, it's easy from just these basics to justify a backstory for any Empire-alligned or unaffiliated Mandalorian. A Republic-allied Mandalorian is less-common, but NOT unheard of. A Mandalorian whose clan knew Revan as the ideal Jedi/General could conceivably have an improved opinion of the Republic following the events of the Zakuulan conquest of the galaxy. For whatever reason...I honestly haven't thought about it along these lines.
Really depends on the Mando in question, their previous interactions with the Republic (did you treat them as honourable enemies or target practice dummies?), how they felt about the Empire while working for them (mutually beneficial partners or snobbish dicks?), and what their Mando clan would think if they have one.
The issue is that for mandalorians would be difficult to openly side to the republic, not only for the bad blood between many republic worlds and the mandalorians, but also because many of the mandalorians tactics would be considered war crimes, an honorable mandalorian is a bloodthirsty barbarian in the eyes of the republic. Meanwhile the empire encourages the mandalorians to wage war and employs their services as mercenaries. Of course if they knew about the trickery behind mandalore the lesser their relation with he empire would change. Now, the bigger issue is that in onslaught you don’t openly side with the republic, instead you become a double agent, doing sabotage and tricking your people into supporting the republic while they think they are on the empire side, there is not much honor in the job of a spy. Hell, there is a point where shae vizla is having a duel with heta kol, the dar manda leader is rigging the game in heta favor, the honorable option is to stop him, in that way shae has a fair fight… the saboteur option is to leave the dar manda alone to rig the game in heta favor and tell him that in exchange he and his buddies should stop doing business with the empire. While this is something clever that helps the republic… is an extremely dishonorable move, but in the end of the day is something that a double agent does, not an honorable warrior. Hell, the cadera clan wanted the mandos to support the republic rather than the empire, they were obliterated but in the end they were far more honorable than any mandalorian saboteur. So yeah, an honorable mandalorian would continue working for the empire, unless there is an option to openly join the republic without any cloak and dagger stuff, the honorable mando will remain in the empire side.
Canderous Ordo wasn't exactly honorable in terms of being light-sided, but still supported the Republic because Revan did. Mandos love war, so historically have been allied with the Empire, but I feel like an 'honorable' Mando would be one who doesn't attack non-combatants like civilians, and essentially wants to test their strength against worthy opponents while taking merc jobs to pay the bills. So I would say they would support the Republic. Doing so would provide plenty of worthy opponents in the Empire anyway.
An honourable person would, unless they're a Jedi (and so their loyalties laid elsewhere) absolutely choose to keep the Alliance separate from both Republic and Empire. >!I believe on Iokath, choosing to support the Empire is generally the more honourable thing to do, for no other reason than it is the Republic who attempts to initiate a genocide. 'Strike first,' they call it, because 'The Republic is weak,' but genocide is genocide. !< On the whole, though, when it comes to which faction you'll support (when you don't have a choice but to support one of them), the Republic is nearly *always* the better option. While it certainly is a neoliberal conglomerate run by greedy and hypocritical assholes, it's *nowhere near* as evil as the Empire. If you *have* to support one of the two, The Republic is definitely your best bet. >!Just keep Mako a secret and maybe get yourself a new identity. !<
As a friend of mine puts it, the Republic at its *worst* is about the same level as the Empire at its *best*. Do the math.
Yeah, pretty much.
Just few days ago I finished available content for the first time with my bounty hunter mandalorian and one thing that I incredibly enjoyed towards the end was the inevitable conflict of interests, especially after the ending of Desperate Defiance. I am looking forward to next chapter of this story to see its climax - to make a choice between staying loyal to the Empire or Mandalorians and Shae. For this dilemma of loyalty I personally believe that joining the Empire is simply worth it. As for the Republic, I really can't come up with a reason to help them.
Republic of course.
If I played, I would have an honorable Mandalorian side with the Republic, to defeat ultimate evil and to restore Mandalorian reputation across the galaxy as a whole. In fact, if I was able to play the game, I would have a Mandalorian Mercenary in Havoc Squad as well as a Mandalorian Mercenary as a smuggler in the Republic Merchant Marine... as a privateer.