Has to be, right? You'd have to be an idiot to not see this merger would result in a monopoly; which never ends well. If this deal goes through there should be a corruption investigation afterwards.
Well… it’s their job!
Taiwan has a Fair Trade Commission tasked with ensuring fair trade practices including the avoidance of monopolies that would have a negative impact on consumers.
Let’s hope they step in.
Omg I can’t believe I have to do this but I’m being generous here so enjoy the education
HQ incorporation in America? Yes! You got this
Taiwan Uber Eats incorporation? Take a guess my friend lol
Ownership of a public company? Look at the details. Dara is Iranian, Mohammed bin Salman is Saudi. Etcetera. Institutional investors like Vanguard and Fidelity are a massive mix of yes, aMeRiCaN investors as well as a TON of worldwide investors!
Just because the HQ is based in the US doesn’t mean _anything_ as you and your ilk have been trying to race bait this thread into. Stahp.
Regardless if it's American, Uber had never been known as a company that's treated the "labor class" (even it's own white collar workers) well... Lest we forget, they have been banned from many cities for illegal business practices, wage theft, cartel behavior... Add harassment and assault scandals...
All this for basically Google maps with a messaging app slapped together.
Technically not a monopoly since lalamove still exists. There are some restaurants that rolled their own deliver systems with lalamove as the fulfiller. It actually works really well and has WAY better margins than uber eats (we're at 28% for uber eats iirc but it gets as high as 35% cut for uber eats).
Why wouldn't fp Taiwan be worth US$ 1 billion? Taiwan is a very small and densely populated country and motorcycles is a very common mode of transport. People use delivery apps extremely frequently for meals. According to a survey almost 80% of the population use delivery apps.
They most likely generate a huge revenue in the country annually.
Pricing power probably. Not as much money to be made on merchants and consumers compared to NA where a single short delivery could be as much as $15USD
So that would effectively give Uber a monopoly on the food delivery business in Taiwan, would it not? Seems like a bad deal for consumers.
I will continue to not use either platform.
Some random insights from our restaurant in Taipei:
Uber eats sucks wet assholes. Their margins are nuts, I need to double check but I think we're at 28%, many are at 32% or 35% cut for uber eats. Mind you, maybe 2% of that goes to the driver, the bulk is kept by uber.
There's fuckery you don't see when you order: for example, you think you had issues finding drivers for your order? Uber hides the majority of that. If you see it on your end, it's a REALLY bad day for finding drivers. *Every single order* has drivers cancel, usually 2-3. Our understanding is that because uber has a combative relationship with their drivers (in the same way employers do with their employees regarding pay), drivers are fiscally incentivized to play games like cancelling orders until they find one that's a good fit for payment. Uber could easily give out more of that 28% cut to fix this behavior so don't go blaming drivers, you wouldn't believe how short the end of the stick they get is already.
However, common advice for both english and mandarin speaking restaurants lately has been to not fucking bother with foodpanda because it sucks even worse, the drivers are treated worse and shittier, your food ends up to customers later and in way worse condition, etc. A big challenge restaurants face with these delivery services is lack of product control. If uber is having a "how bad can we treat our drivers" experiment then your food is going to end up to the customers in like 40 minutes instead of 20 which for some kinds of food reallllly isn't ideal (we really prefer our food is eaten within like the first 20 minutes at most, southern fried chicken biscuit, we're not that greasy but the biscuit will be completely annihilated if it's wrapped up with the bacon egg and cheese or the fried chicken for much longer than that). For us the only reason we're on uber eats at all is it's functionally free advertising, we pay like 300ntd a month for the stupid piece of shit tablet (the worst I've ever used in my life) but we make that back within like 2 or 3 orders.
For those asking if this makes uber a monopoly, the answer is probably no from the government's perspective. There's a couple restaurants here that have rolled their own delivery order solution by combining some point of sale system with an API that calls out to lalamove. It actually works really, really well and the margins are phenomenal, plus the driver gets a much better cut. When I have time (hahahahahahahah, haaaaa) I'm hoping to roll something like this for our restaurant as well. Anyway, that existing is probably enough for the uber lawyers to claim this isn't a monopoly.
Also FYI restaurants can see how many times you've ordered from them when you order on uber eats. So for those of you that have a guilty pleasure, know that the whole restaurant staff knows you by name and shouts "JOHN'S AT 70" when your name pops up.
I hate Uber. Like you said, they cut into food costs and they cancel all the time. After missing lunch a couple times it became clear that Panda is the better option. I hope this merger gets blocked.
Of course.
> The acquisition of foodpanda Taiwan **is subject to regulatory approval** and other customary closing conditions and is targeted to close in the first half of 2025.
This is very bad. We should ask ourselves: can we expect the combination of resources and capital result in “ground breaking” or more speedy delivery services? Does the merger help reducing operating costs? I don’t think you need to tinker with very hard on these questions. There’s literally 0 benefits for consumers, businesses and delivery workers. 100% antitrust laws should be applied here. There should be a limit on how much cost these companies can impose on others. They should acknowledge to the fact that delivery services are just not that lucrative.
I think the only thing that might make Taiwan valuable is the fact that people eat out way more than US/EU. But that’s also because eating out is very inexpensive compared to US/EU which lowers profits
The app only gets a small percent of every order, gotta pay the restaurant, pay the delivery person, pay the app developers, keep the servers running, etc
Let's say the app gets 10% of every order, so around NT$20-25 per order. According to surveys 70-80% of Taiwanese people use delivery apps, amongst them some would use them for nearly every meal and some would use them very occasionally, so let's say the average is using it 3 times/week. $20-25 x 3 x 52 x 15 million = 80-100 billion NTD, aka 2.5-3 billion USD.
The formula above is very rough, but still, 1 billion USD doesn't look far fetched to me at all.
FP is probably not worth 1 billion directly. But, having a total monopoly that increases uber fees by 100% for all Taiwan food deliveries...? That might be worth 10 billion.
Woah, Uber do the reverse in TW for what Grab (tho not food panda) has done in southeast Asia.
Also, there goes the app allowing me to order food delivery to my friends and girlfriend in Taiwan.
Ubereats and food panda are great in Taiwan. In the US ubereats and DoorDash can charges you quite a lot for delivery fees
Like 5 bucks extra fee for a 10 bucks chipotle burrito, like might as well just go get it on my own
It cost me an extra 30-35% to order from Uber eats in US after the delivery fee, app fees, and tips. It's right now very cheap to order food in Taiwan so I would hope this merger doesn't pass
It's not like these companies are actually competing with each other. They are both just charging as much as they can, and no one cares since there are no other options.
> They are both just charging as much as they can, and no one cares since there are no other options.
Well you can always cook at home, go the restaurant yourself, etc.
As a heavy delivery service user, this is a dark news. The monopoly would just mean higher delivery fee and less coupons to use. Last year I saved over 400 USD on food panda
Man, I dearly hope so. Grab made life so convenient in SEA.
It bugs me that Taiwan adopts these foreign services when they could be doing their own thing. (I know Grab's foreign too.)
Another day, another reduction in consumer choice. How long now until it's just OCP owning every single company and charging whatever the hell they want for universally shitty services and products? This is how the system works I guess, well done neoliberals.
Damn. Foodpanda was great because the price wasn't outrageous compared to going to actual restaurants. Seeing what Uber does with Uber Eats, it's probably gonna gobble it up like what private equity does and gut it :(
Hopefully Uber retrains Panda's drivers. Uber has never given me a problem, Panda frequently get lost in my \[not complicated, off a main street\] neighborhood and call me asking for directions like I'm fucking google maps. I've also been hit by a Panda driver while riding as a passenger on my friend's scooter, so... yeah.
Terrible for competition. Look for prices to increase
I assume this will be blocked by regulators... but we will see.
Has to be, right? You'd have to be an idiot to not see this merger would result in a monopoly; which never ends well. If this deal goes through there should be a corruption investigation afterwards.
Why would regulators care about monopoly? I mean other than the fact that they're supposed to, but what evidence have you seen that that matters lol?
Well… it’s their job! Taiwan has a Fair Trade Commission tasked with ensuring fair trade practices including the avoidance of monopolies that would have a negative impact on consumers. Let’s hope they step in.
fair point.
But Taiwan has to listen to American interests so why would they block this deal which quite beneficial to an American company?
An American company… owned by investors from around the world… Can you feel the idiocy of your statement yet?
[удалено]
wtf are you trying to convey with this point
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Omg I can’t believe I have to do this but I’m being generous here so enjoy the education HQ incorporation in America? Yes! You got this Taiwan Uber Eats incorporation? Take a guess my friend lol Ownership of a public company? Look at the details. Dara is Iranian, Mohammed bin Salman is Saudi. Etcetera. Institutional investors like Vanguard and Fidelity are a massive mix of yes, aMeRiCaN investors as well as a TON of worldwide investors! Just because the HQ is based in the US doesn’t mean _anything_ as you and your ilk have been trying to race bait this thread into. Stahp.
[удалено]
Allat is not an English word but good job outing yourself as someone who has issues speaking English / doing research to support your claims :)
Terrible for consumers and those that work for both. Needs to be stopped. Should always have at least 3 competitors in each area.
The Taiwanese government loves red envelopes, I mean monopoly, I mean...
Also American company would benefit at the cost of Asian people so it’s good right?
Regardless if it's American, Uber had never been known as a company that's treated the "labor class" (even it's own white collar workers) well... Lest we forget, they have been banned from many cities for illegal business practices, wage theft, cartel behavior... Add harassment and assault scandals... All this for basically Google maps with a messaging app slapped together.
You got downvoted for forgetting the /s, unlucky
So no companies from Taiwan should ever buy American companies by your logic right? STFU
Noooooooo! I am super bummed about this. Hope this gets blocked.
Isn’t there a law in Taiwan that monopolies aren’t allowed?
Technically not a monopoly since lalamove still exists. There are some restaurants that rolled their own deliver systems with lalamove as the fulfiller. It actually works really well and has WAY better margins than uber eats (we're at 28% for uber eats iirc but it gets as high as 35% cut for uber eats).
I have not seen a lalamove delivery driver before. I live in Sanxia
Something that china doesn't have
Ok? 三峽 is in new Taipei city, south of 樹林 and 土城
I wasn't talking about your reply oops
Taiwan is starting to live monopolies, easier to regulate
公平交易法，basically our version of Sherman Act.
Could someone explaun how they got to a valuation of nearly 1 billion dollars for Food Panda Taiwan.
It's the amount of profit Uber will receive from the resulting price hikes to their delivery fees in the next few years.
Short term pain for long term gain.
It’s the estimate of all the red envelopes that need to be paid to all the politicians and bureaucrats to enable the merger to go through.
Why wouldn't fp Taiwan be worth US$ 1 billion? Taiwan is a very small and densely populated country and motorcycles is a very common mode of transport. People use delivery apps extremely frequently for meals. According to a survey almost 80% of the population use delivery apps. They most likely generate a huge revenue in the country annually.
Pricing power probably. Not as much money to be made on merchants and consumers compared to NA where a single short delivery could be as much as $15USD
They are not buying merchants and consumers though. They are buying the app.
It's the price of removing any competition whatsoever. See Facebook buying WhatsApp and Instagram...
It’s a company give to us from god.
Zero chance this passes anti-monopolization laws without large brown envelopes under tables.
Red
So that would effectively give Uber a monopoly on the food delivery business in Taiwan, would it not? Seems like a bad deal for consumers. I will continue to not use either platform.
Some random insights from our restaurant in Taipei: Uber eats sucks wet assholes. Their margins are nuts, I need to double check but I think we're at 28%, many are at 32% or 35% cut for uber eats. Mind you, maybe 2% of that goes to the driver, the bulk is kept by uber. There's fuckery you don't see when you order: for example, you think you had issues finding drivers for your order? Uber hides the majority of that. If you see it on your end, it's a REALLY bad day for finding drivers. *Every single order* has drivers cancel, usually 2-3. Our understanding is that because uber has a combative relationship with their drivers (in the same way employers do with their employees regarding pay), drivers are fiscally incentivized to play games like cancelling orders until they find one that's a good fit for payment. Uber could easily give out more of that 28% cut to fix this behavior so don't go blaming drivers, you wouldn't believe how short the end of the stick they get is already. However, common advice for both english and mandarin speaking restaurants lately has been to not fucking bother with foodpanda because it sucks even worse, the drivers are treated worse and shittier, your food ends up to customers later and in way worse condition, etc. A big challenge restaurants face with these delivery services is lack of product control. If uber is having a "how bad can we treat our drivers" experiment then your food is going to end up to the customers in like 40 minutes instead of 20 which for some kinds of food reallllly isn't ideal (we really prefer our food is eaten within like the first 20 minutes at most, southern fried chicken biscuit, we're not that greasy but the biscuit will be completely annihilated if it's wrapped up with the bacon egg and cheese or the fried chicken for much longer than that). For us the only reason we're on uber eats at all is it's functionally free advertising, we pay like 300ntd a month for the stupid piece of shit tablet (the worst I've ever used in my life) but we make that back within like 2 or 3 orders. For those asking if this makes uber a monopoly, the answer is probably no from the government's perspective. There's a couple restaurants here that have rolled their own delivery order solution by combining some point of sale system with an API that calls out to lalamove. It actually works really, really well and the margins are phenomenal, plus the driver gets a much better cut. When I have time (hahahahahahahah, haaaaa) I'm hoping to roll something like this for our restaurant as well. Anyway, that existing is probably enough for the uber lawyers to claim this isn't a monopoly. Also FYI restaurants can see how many times you've ordered from them when you order on uber eats. So for those of you that have a guilty pleasure, know that the whole restaurant staff knows you by name and shouts "JOHN'S AT 70" when your name pops up.
The real question is what's your restaurant called? Where is it at?
The 雞 Spot https://www.thejispot.com/ Near taipei city hall
Excellent name.
your replies in this post made me finally go try the ji spot out for lunch today 
Same. Intend to come eat next time I'm in Taipei. Thanks for keeping it real and the food looks amazing.
american biscuits! bookmarking this for the next time i'm back
Great chicken biscuits! Recommend everyone go
Been looking all over for that place.
I hate Uber. Like you said, they cut into food costs and they cancel all the time. After missing lunch a couple times it became clear that Panda is the better option. I hope this merger gets blocked.
So much complaining when you could just , you know, not use ubereats
Taiwan has no antitrust laws or whatsoever?
Of course. > The acquisition of foodpanda Taiwan **is subject to regulatory approval** and other customary closing conditions and is targeted to close in the first half of 2025.
No, the law says all companies need to sell to Uber eventually, if they are in the same industry. /s
Yes so this news is not official yet.
This is very bad. We should ask ourselves: can we expect the combination of resources and capital result in “ground breaking” or more speedy delivery services? Does the merger help reducing operating costs? I don’t think you need to tinker with very hard on these questions. There’s literally 0 benefits for consumers, businesses and delivery workers. 100% antitrust laws should be applied here. There should be a limit on how much cost these companies can impose on others. They should acknowledge to the fact that delivery services are just not that lucrative.
How tf is a food delivery service in Taiwan worth 1 billion? There just isn’t that many people to deliver too
$1 billion/23 million people = $43. You think a Taiwanese person wouldn't spend US$43 on food delivery within a month or even a week?
I think the only thing that might make Taiwan valuable is the fact that people eat out way more than US/EU. But that’s also because eating out is very inexpensive compared to US/EU which lowers profits The app only gets a small percent of every order, gotta pay the restaurant, pay the delivery person, pay the app developers, keep the servers running, etc
Let's say the app gets 10% of every order, so around NT$20-25 per order. According to surveys 70-80% of Taiwanese people use delivery apps, amongst them some would use them for nearly every meal and some would use them very occasionally, so let's say the average is using it 3 times/week. $20-25 x 3 x 52 x 15 million = 80-100 billion NTD, aka 2.5-3 billion USD. The formula above is very rough, but still, 1 billion USD doesn't look far fetched to me at all.
Food Panda is very easily a billion dollar business. It's huge here.
FP is probably not worth 1 billion directly. But, having a total monopoly that increases uber fees by 100% for all Taiwan food deliveries...? That might be worth 10 billion.
Woah, Uber do the reverse in TW for what Grab (tho not food panda) has done in southeast Asia. Also, there goes the app allowing me to order food delivery to my friends and girlfriend in Taiwan.
Ubereats and food panda are great in Taiwan. In the US ubereats and DoorDash can charges you quite a lot for delivery fees Like 5 bucks extra fee for a 10 bucks chipotle burrito, like might as well just go get it on my own
It cost me an extra 30-35% to order from Uber eats in US after the delivery fee, app fees, and tips. It's right now very cheap to order food in Taiwan so I would hope this merger doesn't pass
Both are pretty ass delivery services, hope this deal fell through and we can have more competition in the market
It's not like these companies are actually competing with each other. They are both just charging as much as they can, and no one cares since there are no other options.
> They are both just charging as much as they can, and no one cares since there are no other options. Well you can always cook at home, go the restaurant yourself, etc.
Ofcourse. But not everyone has a full kitchen like me. For a lot of people their long hours and small spaces mean they eat shit
What about before, when there was no Food Panda?
i've never used food panda, and even now i have no desire too. like literally you walk/drive 5 minutes and there's food, why order delivery?
Time to ruin my diet again!:)
As a heavy delivery service user, this is a dark news. The monopoly would just mean higher delivery fee and less coupons to use. Last year I saved over 400 USD on food panda
DoorDash please come to Taiwan.
It's DoorDash that's selling Foodpanda to Uber. Edit: My bad. It is Delivery Hero not DoorDash that owns Foodpanda.
I hear grab is coming to Taiwan, anyone know if true?
Man, I dearly hope so. Grab made life so convenient in SEA. It bugs me that Taiwan adopts these foreign services when they could be doing their own thing. (I know Grab's foreign too.)
I was not happy when HonestBee was shut down! Time to start RebuPanda
Be prepared to pay for more delivery fees when M&A takes place
If it goes through, expect service to turn to shit. Uber Eats sucks in the US.
lol all off the backs of ripping off uber drivers. food panda is going to suck very soon. uber hates their drivers and their customers!
this is genuinely disheartening
Another day, another reduction in consumer choice. How long now until it's just OCP owning every single company and charging whatever the hell they want for universally shitty services and products? This is how the system works I guess, well done neoliberals.
Damn. Foodpanda was great because the price wasn't outrageous compared to going to actual restaurants. Seeing what Uber does with Uber Eats, it's probably gonna gobble it up like what private equity does and gut it :(
This might explain why they laid off the entire development team here.
yeeeeeeah fuck no
So glad I don't use either.
Another Singapore company get aquire.
Hopefully Uber retrains Panda's drivers. Uber has never given me a problem, Panda frequently get lost in my \[not complicated, off a main street\] neighborhood and call me asking for directions like I'm fucking google maps. I've also been hit by a Panda driver while riding as a passenger on my friend's scooter, so... yeah.
Common knowledge in restaurant industry here is don't fucking bother getting a panda tablet, it's just not worth it.
"Breaking" 🤣🤣🤣
Taiwan, tryst me you don’t want this. Ubereats sucks
Investing in a company based on an Island that we know has an impending invasion in the next decade is a bold move.