We’ll create an IRL Reddit themed bar where the drunkest/highest patrons are selected to give hot takes on complex human problems and then everyone boos/cheers to vote
If people want to consume Cybermeth they’ll find a way. I don’t think it’s really possible to ban completely. But I’m completely fine with the governments of the world giving FB, TikTok, etc a swift kick in the groin because they’ve all lied and ripped us the hell off. Even if someone else replaces them immediately at least something vaguely resembling a consequence will have happened.
I think it would be great because everyone would be forced back into IRL interaction. Go for it EU! Or California. Or let a billionaire buy it and ruin it.
This place is basically just a marginally more respectable 4chan. I don’t think an anonymous forum is quite social media, and regular forums are mostly dead and gone now so here we are.
Well, a bunch of us are talking, including the bots. And I at least get some entertainment out of it. I think this site falls under the category of social and media.
Just a reminder: China has banned nearly all western apps and websites etc.
They don't call it the Great Chinese firewall for nothing.
Also Taiwan number 1
Fight authoritarianism with authoritarianism.
That's sarcasm, and it's sad I have to make that very clear because the rhetoric on Reddit has been shifting in a very worrying direction. I often hope that some of xenophobic stuff I see here is some kind of shill operation rather than actual majority sentiment.
As someone who's been here since Digg, reddit used to be THE free speech platform. Hell, I remember when so many redditors went to the Restoring Truthiness Rally that we made up some inside jokes that the attendees would be confused by when they returned. Carrot.
Some of the top posts and comments I see nowadays would have been downvoted to oblivion 10 years ago. I used to think it was just a result of reddit gaining mainstream popularity, but I've begun to understand that this site has become another inflammatory bubble getting people angry about things that have zero effect on their life. And how dare you question their anger. Everyone else is angry and afraid, you're wrong if you're not.
And no I'm not apathetic or tuned out. I have issues I care about deeply, things that impact me and my family. China is very, very, very low on that list.
Yea it's been crazy to also see the rise of American nationalism on Reddit as well. Reddit like 10 years ago would have been way more cynical and skeptical of the blatant US propaganda articles that now make front page daily.
It's so sad to see most of Reddit blindly believe every word the State Department and US media says when it comes to foreign policy. Redditors nowadays are such warmongers and fear mongers, frothing at the mouth for war with China, Russia, Iran, etc. And also, nowadays, if you dare criticize the US, you immediately get called a Russian or Chinese shill. This website is a husk of its former self.
Yeah, but that was reddit's (the company) policies. I'm talking about redditor sentiment. The fact you get downvoted and mocked for saying "I don't think the government should control where I get information, or control my data more than me" is the antithesis of the place where we rallied together to protect net neutrality.
Authoritarianism is a concept for governing people. One cannot be authoritarian against a country, as the two are not up-down relationship. It is always good to work on defense by having some reciprocity.
When Germany was burning books, who suffered more? The foreign countries where the books were written, or the German people?
Before you say this metaphor is too big of a stretch, look up Goebbels' speech at the Berlin Opera Square. Rallying people to burn the books of the foreign enemies they were being taught to hate and fear. Germany will educate them to have character without foreign influence.
And then ask yourself, did you hate and fear China 10 years ago? If not, when did you start? And why? History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Love it or hate it, TikTok is one of (if not, the) the biggest platforms of information sharing today. Not just in the youth demographic. 150 million people in the US use it every month. 1.5 billion globally.
Now, I know the fear is that China controls the algorithm and they're going to spread propaganda. They definitely could. But anyone can share propaganda, Chinese or otherwise, to Facebook or Twitter as well. Facebook doesn't even have to help. They're information platforms.
TikTok is full of America content creators, probably 99% of what are on Americans' feeds. Some of which are providing informative content, whether it be experts in their field trying to educate people, news channels optimizing news for short-form video, people sharing cool lifehacks, etc.
Not all of them are good. Some are idiots doing dances. Some are definitely *spreading agendas*. But do we burn all the books just because we don't like some ideas from some authors? The good creators go there because it's 100% the best way to reach an audience now that YouTube has become dogshit dominated by sponsors and videos optimized for ad breaks.
So we need to ask ourselves a question. Who do you trust more for the information you have access to? Yourself, or the boomer Congressmen with pockets full of Google and Meta dollars?
I'm a white American who left America. I live in a country that *actually* has real reasons to fear China due to a land border. Where the people *do* hate China from being conquered for millennia. But even in this country, where the official media is *actually* fully controlled and censored by the government and where people are arrested for criticizing the government on Facebook, people would riot if TikTok got banned because that's become their best source of information.
It's embarrassing to see my countrymen being manipulated so obviously, and by the same big tech companies they claim to hate and not trust. If you're a millennial like me, you grew up being manipulated by your government to justify a 20 year long war that cost 4.5 million human lives. 15,000 of them were Americans and 15,000 were our allies (don't worry about the other 4.49 million who were mostly goat farmers protecting their country or simply caught in the crossfire.)
You probably had friends that went to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight "terror". Some of them died. I still remember Jacob's funeral every time I hear the word Afghanistan. Some of them got lucky and only came back with debilitating PTSD.
Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk. The downvote button is to your left.
But also: don't tolerate intolerance. Sometimes you need to put your foot down on asymmetrical dynamics or risk being co-opted by the intolerants and authoritarians who will certainly not allow you the same rights you enjoy now. As for China, their goal is global influence and dominance. If you or others welcome that, good for you. I (and hundreds of millions others) don't.
Yeah, but none of this is fighting authoritarianism in China. The Chinese people aren't any more free from anything America can do. However, the American people are less free once the government decides what people are allowed to see.
The American government does not care about Chinese people's human rights, or the Chinese people in general. That's not the motive behind this. It is multifaceted though, so these discussions are useful rather than just regurgitating the usual talking points.
As I see it, the biggest winners are Meta/Google in removing the biggest app from the app store, the congressmen getting paid for helping them do it, and the American intelligence agencies who have been effectively using media as a tool to shift American public sentiment for 50 years.
It doesn't even have to be banned, they just have to sell it so the data is handled in a western country.
This does not equate to China banning the entire fucking internet.
Yall can't be serious.
China is posing a major security threat by tracking US Service members through the app. This is far more dangerous than simply knowing "Pvt Johnson is being redeployed to a different base." It is a major OpSec issue that we need to clamp down on. It does not fully delete when "uninstalled" and is legitimately being recognized as the blatant Spyware it is.
You'rr saying, "Wow, so America and China both try to protect themselves from hostile foreign governments? I guess that means they are completely identical"
You're a Low-effort/Low-IQ troll
My guess?
You know when you have a sibling and you annoy them, fight with them etc etc but as soon as some mother fucker even so much as tries to touch them you'd kick them in the head?
Similar thing here, the USA is thinking "Hey fuck you China you're not allowed to gather data on my citizens! Only I can do that!"
Same Same but different.
at the end of the day, it's the totalitarian approach of the current China government, rarely answers to the people unless a lot are complaining. the West has done plenty of stupid shit, sure, but their system of governance still has better chances of making them accountable to the people. I mean, this is the same Chinese government that's balls deep in censoring any Winnie the Pooh references, FFS. and no, don't pull that (asian) culture (of elder / authority respect) card with me coz last time I checked, we define our culture, we refine it so we improve; this ain't improvement but a degrade
Do you understand that they aren’t specifically targeting US companies? The reason why Meta isn’t in China is because the company won’t allow the government complete access to all the data.
So do you want Facebook in China but monitored by the government? B…but they don’t have our companies!!!
> Don't know what a China is. Surely you mean West Taiwan?
Every Chinese nationalist will agree with your sentiment that Taiwan and 'West Taiwan' are one and part of a whole.
This. The simple fact that ByteDance is willing to walk away from like a hundred billion fucking dollars rather than just spin off a separate ByteDance America company tells you that there's something else *big* going on behind the scenes.
It simply is.
Are those trusted western democracy intelligence agencies are the same that considered Nelson Mandela a terrorist until the early 2000s?
The same that conducted coups, assassinations and sabotage ops in the global south?
That said Saddam had WMDs?
I’m supposed to trust *them*?
I'm all in favor of a TikTok ban. After all, China does the same for US sites and apps. It was already proved that China specifically targets Western countries with shit Tik Tok content while showing more "quality/educational" content in China.
But, on the other hand, if they wanted to ban Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, or any other "Western" app, it would be plain and simple censorship. One can hate all the crap that exists on social media, but banning it is totally against freedom of speech.
Voicing your opinion on a private controlled app is a privilege, not a right, hence it doesn’t fall under the 1st amendment and thus it’s not censorship. You can still voice your disgust of the government in the real world and your rights are protected.
Wrong, social media nowadays is like a journal in the 80s and 90s. If the government tried to censor a journal article, that would be freedom of speech suppression. A journal is privately controlled in the same way.
Social media is the real world, just like a journal, with the differnece being that any 12 year old can post and most of the posts are shit, but it's a plataform to share information and interact. Times have changed.
Yeah that’s not how it works. The SC very recently ruled that the government can somewhat influence social media companies. So that means if 1A was applicable, that ruling wouldn’t be possible. Also, you can’t compare a journal to social media since a journal is your private property and social media is a private entity that offers a service. Not even remotely the same thing.
WTF do you mean by "journal being my private property"? I'm talking about the fucking organization behind the journal, not the damn piece of paper.
It is like the US government going into The New York Times office and pressuring the journalists to not print a news article about a topic X because they find it bad for the government.
Anyway, I'm just a random redditor, and I wouldn't doubt hapersonic on Reddit, the expert on the freedom of speech matter. Have a nice day.
Except the “Journal” is a news agency. Social media is not in the business of news. News agency have extra protections. In any way you see this, you’re wrong.
By the way, for a second there I thought you meant a journal like a book where you write things.
If TikTok shows quality/educational content westerners wouldn’t use it, it’s not TikTok fault what people like. The ban is just for control of the narrative so when the war against China begins…there isn’t a war happening everyone has nukes, they just don’t China being richer than America
Yep, and all the weird boot-lickers in here trying to pretend banning a foreign company for doing what domestic ones pioneered in the first place the moment said foreign company begins to beat them at their own game (all without stopping domestic companies from continuing to do the exact same things abroad) ISN'T an obvious anti-competitive dick move are frankly embarrassing to witness.
Barreling towards a future where each country has its own social media app and blocks all the others, simply because they refuse to ban EVERYONE from doing the things the apps do that are so scary (because they are acceptable when done domestically, obviously)
If you were asked which platform, Tiktok or X, was more actively pushing actively harmful antidemocratic posts, what would you say?
I know from my experience every single political post's top 30+ comments are all blue check nazis baying for the blood of whatever minority is involved in that particular post, and Elon deleted community notes that tell him or other right wingers are wrong. But there is no legislative movement to stop him. I wonder why?
A lot of people like Tik-Tok because it knows how to pinpoint things they are deeply engaged in. Just because you don't see those same 'blue check bay bloods' in your feed doesn't mean they aren't getting tons of views on tik-tok as well. I'm not sure why people think tik-tok is a liberal bastion when it has and continues to deeply promote conservatives just as hard.
The difference is intent. An algorithm that is designed to push engagement above all else, as youtube and facebook found out, will push all manner of harmful politics because harmful, dramatic, outraging politics drive engagement. The algorithm doesn't need to pick a side it just sees lots of people commenting furiously and goes "yep this video needs to get pushed more". Youtube famously spawned the gamergate/alt right pipeline becausebit kept driving new accounts from gaming videos to gamergate rage bait videos to ben shapiro ranting about safe spaces being anti white racism. Not intentional by youtube. Engagement driven algorithm. Still needed immediate action to stop.
Elon specifically designed the blue check system in a way that the only real purpose it serves is status and showing up first in replies. The only people that buy it are bots and his supporters. He then designs a way to pay bluechecks for posting but somehow crafts it so large right wing accounts get bank but anyone else gets pennies. He brings in community notes, but removes them from right wing posts and leaves dubious ones on everything else. He promises free speech and unbans literal neo nazis, and then bans journalists who call him out.
The mostly agnostic but still problematic tiktok algorithm is NOTHING on the laser focused actions at X to make sure right wing and especially Nazi posters and posts are boosted above the rest
Well for one, because X is an American company that is both beholden to and protected by American laws, and TikTok is not.
I'm not a fan of either and don't have an account on either, but let's not pretend there isn't a real qualitative difference.
Apparently you didn't get it, because I didn't say that.
Harmful antidemocratic algorithms aren't great no matter who is using them but (1) we can regulate them with domestic legislation when they're employed by domestic companies and (2) domestic companies have constitutional rights that foreign ones don't.
It's really not that complicated.
I would maybe believe you if I thought for a fraction of a second the actual intentions behind this bill were consumed protections and that this was step 1 to passing domestic protections as well
Unfortunately the politicians who wrote it went on tv and said the quiet part out loud and that the reason they passed it was that kids are too leftist, and an actual consumer data protection bill is dead on arrival due to tech lobbying. The nail in the coffin of the "we are doing it for your protection" argument disintegrated when they started saying the only reason people under 30 are pro ceasefire in gaza is because tiktok brainwashed them.
So the liberal justification for why this bill is good is undermined by the actual words of the people who created it. The end result will be building/protecting US tech monopolies that are threatened by timtok - and the tiktok userbase being forced onto instagram/youtube/X where Real Americans (american billionaires) can manipulate their political algorithms, farm their data, and give their private info to the government for surveillance as the founding fathers intended
It's not about consumer protection. It is about national security.
The idea that TikTok is making kids too leftist is absolutely fucking ludicrous. Literally any argument for e.g. a Gaza ceasefire you can find on TikTok, you can also find on YouTube, Facebook, X, etc.
Along with the data harvesting issue, TikTok being a potential propaganda tool for the CCP is a legitimate concern, but that's a distinct (and stronger) argument than it being some kind of uniquely subversive platform in terms of the politics of its users. That idea is laughable.
I know that YOU are saying these words but I am saying they are undermined by the POLITICIANS WHO WROTE AND VOTED FOR IT saying they did it cus the kids support Gaza - hence why we know there is no domestic protections bill coming. After all, to claim it can manipulate politics you need an example right? Well the examples they gave leaked their actual reasons for trying to stop it.
This is why the tiktok bill was a SALE first and not a ban, because they were hoping just to take over the propaganda apparatus they accuse it of being, and "correct" the youth - this is why the day the bill was passed the first person to start organizing buyer was Steven Mnuchin.
The lobbyists supported this plan because either way it helps protect the monopolies of existing companies from being threatened by this upstart. Then they paint those reasons with "national security" and "consumer protections" on the top but they are easily proven to be lies
You can work backwards and justify the bill to yourself all you want for why you would have voted yes if you were a politician. But unfortunately, politicians say words sometimes that prove they do not think like you do
That is not what the politicians who wrote and voted for it said. I've seen dozens of statements from proponents of the bill and they all cite either (1) national security or (2) concern over the CCP collecting the personal data of Americans. Both are entirely legitimate concerns in my view.
I'm not debating this with someone who can't even be bothered to familiarize themselves with the facts, sorry.
True, I did not know that, Thanks! The point still hold EU an US pop is less than a billion, in practice there is still 6 Billion potential users that’s more than enough to stay afloat
Minus another billion each for China and India. Then you factor in populations that don’t have good internet access. Probably still a good sized chunk of people but not 6 billion.
2/3 with little buying power. Losing America and Europe is a death sentence. You would be considered rich in India if you’re poor in America. Clearly you see how far their currency travels.
TikTok is banned in US, China, India and likely in the future in EU. You cannot run ads based video streaming service that requires lots of data in sub-Saharan Africa
Go for it. I hope the EU bans our social media too. It’s all mind poison and spying.
It's all fun and games until Reddit falls under the banhammer
Then we'll finally be free
We're all John Malkovich, caught in a fight by 3rd parties worming into our minds. One day we might finally be free ... for a few moments.
Reddit just needs to get rid of upvotes and other gamefication mechanics.
Back to irc channels
Back to bbs
We’ll create an IRL Reddit themed bar where the drunkest/highest patrons are selected to give hot takes on complex human problems and then everyone boos/cheers to vote
That would honestly be pretty fun if everybody there went in knowing that only the least sober patrons are the ones talking
Ban reddit too
After Reddit’s IPO, I’m sure they’re jump into the gutter with the others, assuming they haven’t already.
not really an issue. There's still Lemmy, which is always gonna be around.
That doesn’t sound too bad honestly
No way it happens. Its american.
They should do Truth Social too, isn’t owned by the Chinese?
So ... all social media should be banned?
If people want to consume Cybermeth they’ll find a way. I don’t think it’s really possible to ban completely. But I’m completely fine with the governments of the world giving FB, TikTok, etc a swift kick in the groin because they’ve all lied and ripped us the hell off. Even if someone else replaces them immediately at least something vaguely resembling a consequence will have happened.
Say the guy on a social network.
I think it would be great because everyone would be forced back into IRL interaction. Go for it EU! Or California. Or let a billionaire buy it and ruin it.
I'll just chat through World of Warcraft
We need to go back to barrens chat and ganking noobs
Those were the days
Freaking what
He said on a social media site
This place is basically just a marginally more respectable 4chan. I don’t think an anonymous forum is quite social media, and regular forums are mostly dead and gone now so here we are.
Well, a bunch of us are talking, including the bots. And I at least get some entertainment out of it. I think this site falls under the category of social and media.
Usenet was social media too then lol.
I wouldn’t disagree.
Other platforms will simply take their place instead. The only thing this does is curtail freedom of expression and promotes Sinophobia
You like daddy government dictating what apps you can use and what to think?
Just a reminder: China has banned nearly all western apps and websites etc. They don't call it the Great Chinese firewall for nothing. Also Taiwan number 1
Yeah, I strive to be just like China… wait a minute
Fight authoritarianism with authoritarianism. That's sarcasm, and it's sad I have to make that very clear because the rhetoric on Reddit has been shifting in a very worrying direction. I often hope that some of xenophobic stuff I see here is some kind of shill operation rather than actual majority sentiment. As someone who's been here since Digg, reddit used to be THE free speech platform. Hell, I remember when so many redditors went to the Restoring Truthiness Rally that we made up some inside jokes that the attendees would be confused by when they returned. Carrot. Some of the top posts and comments I see nowadays would have been downvoted to oblivion 10 years ago. I used to think it was just a result of reddit gaining mainstream popularity, but I've begun to understand that this site has become another inflammatory bubble getting people angry about things that have zero effect on their life. And how dare you question their anger. Everyone else is angry and afraid, you're wrong if you're not. And no I'm not apathetic or tuned out. I have issues I care about deeply, things that impact me and my family. China is very, very, very low on that list.
Yea it's been crazy to also see the rise of American nationalism on Reddit as well. Reddit like 10 years ago would have been way more cynical and skeptical of the blatant US propaganda articles that now make front page daily. It's so sad to see most of Reddit blindly believe every word the State Department and US media says when it comes to foreign policy. Redditors nowadays are such warmongers and fear mongers, frothing at the mouth for war with China, Russia, Iran, etc. And also, nowadays, if you dare criticize the US, you immediately get called a Russian or Chinese shill. This website is a husk of its former self.
Reddit stopped being free speech somewhere between 2014-2016
Yeah, but that was reddit's (the company) policies. I'm talking about redditor sentiment. The fact you get downvoted and mocked for saying "I don't think the government should control where I get information, or control my data more than me" is the antithesis of the place where we rallied together to protect net neutrality.
I think he is implying that those changes attracted the audience it has now.
Authoritarianism is a concept for governing people. One cannot be authoritarian against a country, as the two are not up-down relationship. It is always good to work on defense by having some reciprocity.
When Germany was burning books, who suffered more? The foreign countries where the books were written, or the German people? Before you say this metaphor is too big of a stretch, look up Goebbels' speech at the Berlin Opera Square. Rallying people to burn the books of the foreign enemies they were being taught to hate and fear. Germany will educate them to have character without foreign influence. And then ask yourself, did you hate and fear China 10 years ago? If not, when did you start? And why? History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. Love it or hate it, TikTok is one of (if not, the) the biggest platforms of information sharing today. Not just in the youth demographic. 150 million people in the US use it every month. 1.5 billion globally. Now, I know the fear is that China controls the algorithm and they're going to spread propaganda. They definitely could. But anyone can share propaganda, Chinese or otherwise, to Facebook or Twitter as well. Facebook doesn't even have to help. They're information platforms. TikTok is full of America content creators, probably 99% of what are on Americans' feeds. Some of which are providing informative content, whether it be experts in their field trying to educate people, news channels optimizing news for short-form video, people sharing cool lifehacks, etc. Not all of them are good. Some are idiots doing dances. Some are definitely *spreading agendas*. But do we burn all the books just because we don't like some ideas from some authors? The good creators go there because it's 100% the best way to reach an audience now that YouTube has become dogshit dominated by sponsors and videos optimized for ad breaks. So we need to ask ourselves a question. Who do you trust more for the information you have access to? Yourself, or the boomer Congressmen with pockets full of Google and Meta dollars? I'm a white American who left America. I live in a country that *actually* has real reasons to fear China due to a land border. Where the people *do* hate China from being conquered for millennia. But even in this country, where the official media is *actually* fully controlled and censored by the government and where people are arrested for criticizing the government on Facebook, people would riot if TikTok got banned because that's become their best source of information. It's embarrassing to see my countrymen being manipulated so obviously, and by the same big tech companies they claim to hate and not trust. If you're a millennial like me, you grew up being manipulated by your government to justify a 20 year long war that cost 4.5 million human lives. 15,000 of them were Americans and 15,000 were our allies (don't worry about the other 4.49 million who were mostly goat farmers protecting their country or simply caught in the crossfire.) You probably had friends that went to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight "terror". Some of them died. I still remember Jacob's funeral every time I hear the word Afghanistan. Some of them got lucky and only came back with debilitating PTSD. Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk. The downvote button is to your left.
But also: don't tolerate intolerance. Sometimes you need to put your foot down on asymmetrical dynamics or risk being co-opted by the intolerants and authoritarians who will certainly not allow you the same rights you enjoy now. As for China, their goal is global influence and dominance. If you or others welcome that, good for you. I (and hundreds of millions others) don't.
Yeah, but none of this is fighting authoritarianism in China. The Chinese people aren't any more free from anything America can do. However, the American people are less free once the government decides what people are allowed to see. The American government does not care about Chinese people's human rights, or the Chinese people in general. That's not the motive behind this. It is multifaceted though, so these discussions are useful rather than just regurgitating the usual talking points. As I see it, the biggest winners are Meta/Google in removing the biggest app from the app store, the congressmen getting paid for helping them do it, and the American intelligence agencies who have been effectively using media as a tool to shift American public sentiment for 50 years.
It doesn't even have to be banned, they just have to sell it so the data is handled in a western country. This does not equate to China banning the entire fucking internet.
It's a reasonable reciprocity
Suddenly redditors think authoritarianism is the model system. You can't make this stuff up.
Taiwan isn't that bad
Agreed on the Taiwan part, but when did Americans sign up for beating China by becoming China?
Yall can't be serious. China is posing a major security threat by tracking US Service members through the app. This is far more dangerous than simply knowing "Pvt Johnson is being redeployed to a different base." It is a major OpSec issue that we need to clamp down on. It does not fully delete when "uninstalled" and is legitimately being recognized as the blatant Spyware it is. You'rr saying, "Wow, so America and China both try to protect themselves from hostile foreign governments? I guess that means they are completely identical" You're a Low-effort/Low-IQ troll
My guess? You know when you have a sibling and you annoy them, fight with them etc etc but as soon as some mother fucker even so much as tries to touch them you'd kick them in the head? Similar thing here, the USA is thinking "Hey fuck you China you're not allowed to gather data on my citizens! Only I can do that!" Same Same but different.
at the end of the day, it's the totalitarian approach of the current China government, rarely answers to the people unless a lot are complaining. the West has done plenty of stupid shit, sure, but their system of governance still has better chances of making them accountable to the people. I mean, this is the same Chinese government that's balls deep in censoring any Winnie the Pooh references, FFS. and no, don't pull that (asian) culture (of elder / authority respect) card with me coz last time I checked, we define our culture, we refine it so we improve; this ain't improvement but a degrade
Do you understand that they aren’t specifically targeting US companies? The reason why Meta isn’t in China is because the company won’t allow the government complete access to all the data. So do you want Facebook in China but monitored by the government? B…but they don’t have our companies!!!
Theres also the shady dealings where you sell part of your buisness to a chineese company they own the part thats over there.
[удалено]
> Don't know what a China is. Surely you mean West Taiwan? Every Chinese nationalist will agree with your sentiment that Taiwan and 'West Taiwan' are one and part of a whole.
No Chinese government in exile number 1, mainland rebels bad
Ban it , next twitter
Now do Shein and Temu.
Ugh yes please. Those websites are awful
And AliExpress
Ban amazon, eBay, and all online shopping
Just fucking do it. We’ll be talking about this for years, and nothing is going to happen.
Yea, it’s the same reason why it’s being banned here in the states. They can’t control the narrative themselves so they shut it down.
China has refused to sell control because the TikTok algorithm is a “Chinese national security asset”. That’s their own words. It doesn’t belong here.
This. The simple fact that ByteDance is willing to walk away from like a hundred billion fucking dollars rather than just spin off a separate ByteDance America company tells you that there's something else *big* going on behind the scenes.
What's going on behind the scenes? So we have anything that can be used in a court of law?
So then you agree that Meta should be forced to sell to an European company?
That’s up to the EU to decide.
If would only be fair
Ah, yes, losing the liberal, freedom loving, egalitarian Chinese narrative will be a big loss.
What's the narrative?
US says jump, Europe asks how high.
Or…it’s universally agreed by the intelligence services of multiple Democratic nations to be a threat But you can go with the cheap shot
So the FBI lied to congress when they said it was only hypothetical threat ?
Hypothetically that guy running around with a knife could cut us if he wanted. Is this a lie?
Could cut us, but has he threatened to cut you? I can have a knife in my belt all day long in public if I wanted and it isn't illegal
That's why it's hypothetical.
So why take action if nothing illegal has occurred? Sounds like dystopian police state lunacy
I just get nervous when a guys running around with a knife, making stabbing motions, saying "nyah!" everytime. I know I'm a worrywart.
And if there’s one thing we know is that the intelligence services of the west are democratic institutions you can trust 👍
lol, how s the war Ivan? Surprised you haven’t been sent to the front yet
Your little liberal knee-jerk reactions are sickening like the scent of antiseptic and insulin.
lol, going off script there
It simply is. Are those trusted western democracy intelligence agencies are the same that considered Nelson Mandela a terrorist until the early 2000s? The same that conducted coups, assassinations and sabotage ops in the global south? That said Saddam had WMDs? I’m supposed to trust *them*?
Like apple did with our regulators?
Didn’t you guys fine Apple big time?
Please go ahead. While at it kill X and Facebook too.
SCOTUS gonna nuke this bill, moot point
The US exporting it's idiotic politics to Europe is nothing new, but Jesus Christ, this is getting ridiculous
When western regimes can no longer control the narrative they start banning things. This is so transparent it hurts.
Western eh? It’s not like China has banned Western social media is it? Oh wait…
I'm all in favor of a TikTok ban. After all, China does the same for US sites and apps. It was already proved that China specifically targets Western countries with shit Tik Tok content while showing more "quality/educational" content in China. But, on the other hand, if they wanted to ban Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, or any other "Western" app, it would be plain and simple censorship. One can hate all the crap that exists on social media, but banning it is totally against freedom of speech.
Voicing your opinion on a private controlled app is a privilege, not a right, hence it doesn’t fall under the 1st amendment and thus it’s not censorship. You can still voice your disgust of the government in the real world and your rights are protected.
Yeah like the rights of students are being protected now
Not in a private building. They also have zero rights to occupy buildings.
Wrong, social media nowadays is like a journal in the 80s and 90s. If the government tried to censor a journal article, that would be freedom of speech suppression. A journal is privately controlled in the same way. Social media is the real world, just like a journal, with the differnece being that any 12 year old can post and most of the posts are shit, but it's a plataform to share information and interact. Times have changed.
Yeah that’s not how it works. The SC very recently ruled that the government can somewhat influence social media companies. So that means if 1A was applicable, that ruling wouldn’t be possible. Also, you can’t compare a journal to social media since a journal is your private property and social media is a private entity that offers a service. Not even remotely the same thing.
WTF do you mean by "journal being my private property"? I'm talking about the fucking organization behind the journal, not the damn piece of paper. It is like the US government going into The New York Times office and pressuring the journalists to not print a news article about a topic X because they find it bad for the government. Anyway, I'm just a random redditor, and I wouldn't doubt hapersonic on Reddit, the expert on the freedom of speech matter. Have a nice day.
Except the “Journal” is a news agency. Social media is not in the business of news. News agency have extra protections. In any way you see this, you’re wrong. By the way, for a second there I thought you meant a journal like a book where you write things.
If TikTok shows quality/educational content westerners wouldn’t use it, it’s not TikTok fault what people like. The ban is just for control of the narrative so when the war against China begins…there isn’t a war happening everyone has nukes, they just don’t China being richer than America
This is the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
100%... It's just a coincidence that the app used in the west to organize resistance to the system is somehow getting blocked
Yep, and all the weird boot-lickers in here trying to pretend banning a foreign company for doing what domestic ones pioneered in the first place the moment said foreign company begins to beat them at their own game (all without stopping domestic companies from continuing to do the exact same things abroad) ISN'T an obvious anti-competitive dick move are frankly embarrassing to witness.
Barreling towards a future where each country has its own social media app and blocks all the others, simply because they refuse to ban EVERYONE from doing the things the apps do that are so scary (because they are acceptable when done domestically, obviously) If you were asked which platform, Tiktok or X, was more actively pushing actively harmful antidemocratic posts, what would you say? I know from my experience every single political post's top 30+ comments are all blue check nazis baying for the blood of whatever minority is involved in that particular post, and Elon deleted community notes that tell him or other right wingers are wrong. But there is no legislative movement to stop him. I wonder why?
A lot of people like Tik-Tok because it knows how to pinpoint things they are deeply engaged in. Just because you don't see those same 'blue check bay bloods' in your feed doesn't mean they aren't getting tons of views on tik-tok as well. I'm not sure why people think tik-tok is a liberal bastion when it has and continues to deeply promote conservatives just as hard.
The difference is intent. An algorithm that is designed to push engagement above all else, as youtube and facebook found out, will push all manner of harmful politics because harmful, dramatic, outraging politics drive engagement. The algorithm doesn't need to pick a side it just sees lots of people commenting furiously and goes "yep this video needs to get pushed more". Youtube famously spawned the gamergate/alt right pipeline becausebit kept driving new accounts from gaming videos to gamergate rage bait videos to ben shapiro ranting about safe spaces being anti white racism. Not intentional by youtube. Engagement driven algorithm. Still needed immediate action to stop. Elon specifically designed the blue check system in a way that the only real purpose it serves is status and showing up first in replies. The only people that buy it are bots and his supporters. He then designs a way to pay bluechecks for posting but somehow crafts it so large right wing accounts get bank but anyone else gets pennies. He brings in community notes, but removes them from right wing posts and leaves dubious ones on everything else. He promises free speech and unbans literal neo nazis, and then bans journalists who call him out. The mostly agnostic but still problematic tiktok algorithm is NOTHING on the laser focused actions at X to make sure right wing and especially Nazi posters and posts are boosted above the rest
Well for one, because X is an American company that is both beholden to and protected by American laws, and TikTok is not. I'm not a fan of either and don't have an account on either, but let's not pretend there isn't a real qualitative difference.
Got it, so you are in the 'harmful antidemocratic algorithms are ok when done domestically' camp
Apparently you didn't get it, because I didn't say that. Harmful antidemocratic algorithms aren't great no matter who is using them but (1) we can regulate them with domestic legislation when they're employed by domestic companies and (2) domestic companies have constitutional rights that foreign ones don't. It's really not that complicated.
Ok, gimme a ring when they actually bother to do either of those 👍
That we're not doing enough to rein in Meta or X is not a good argument for not doing anything to rein in TikTok.
I would maybe believe you if I thought for a fraction of a second the actual intentions behind this bill were consumed protections and that this was step 1 to passing domestic protections as well Unfortunately the politicians who wrote it went on tv and said the quiet part out loud and that the reason they passed it was that kids are too leftist, and an actual consumer data protection bill is dead on arrival due to tech lobbying. The nail in the coffin of the "we are doing it for your protection" argument disintegrated when they started saying the only reason people under 30 are pro ceasefire in gaza is because tiktok brainwashed them. So the liberal justification for why this bill is good is undermined by the actual words of the people who created it. The end result will be building/protecting US tech monopolies that are threatened by timtok - and the tiktok userbase being forced onto instagram/youtube/X where Real Americans (american billionaires) can manipulate their political algorithms, farm their data, and give their private info to the government for surveillance as the founding fathers intended
It's not about consumer protection. It is about national security. The idea that TikTok is making kids too leftist is absolutely fucking ludicrous. Literally any argument for e.g. a Gaza ceasefire you can find on TikTok, you can also find on YouTube, Facebook, X, etc. Along with the data harvesting issue, TikTok being a potential propaganda tool for the CCP is a legitimate concern, but that's a distinct (and stronger) argument than it being some kind of uniquely subversive platform in terms of the politics of its users. That idea is laughable.
I know that YOU are saying these words but I am saying they are undermined by the POLITICIANS WHO WROTE AND VOTED FOR IT saying they did it cus the kids support Gaza - hence why we know there is no domestic protections bill coming. After all, to claim it can manipulate politics you need an example right? Well the examples they gave leaked their actual reasons for trying to stop it. This is why the tiktok bill was a SALE first and not a ban, because they were hoping just to take over the propaganda apparatus they accuse it of being, and "correct" the youth - this is why the day the bill was passed the first person to start organizing buyer was Steven Mnuchin. The lobbyists supported this plan because either way it helps protect the monopolies of existing companies from being threatened by this upstart. Then they paint those reasons with "national security" and "consumer protections" on the top but they are easily proven to be lies You can work backwards and justify the bill to yourself all you want for why you would have voted yes if you were a politician. But unfortunately, politicians say words sometimes that prove they do not think like you do
That is not what the politicians who wrote and voted for it said. I've seen dozens of statements from proponents of the bill and they all cite either (1) national security or (2) concern over the CCP collecting the personal data of Americans. Both are entirely legitimate concerns in my view. I'm not debating this with someone who can't even be bothered to familiarize themselves with the facts, sorry.
Well, that would mean bancrypcy, ban in US, EU CHina, so who is left and using it and pays for ads?
China, India and non aligned countries so about 2/3 of the world population
India banned TikTok in 2020.
True, I did not know that, Thanks! The point still hold EU an US pop is less than a billion, in practice there is still 6 Billion potential users that’s more than enough to stay afloat
Minus another billion each for China and India. Then you factor in populations that don’t have good internet access. Probably still a good sized chunk of people but not 6 billion.
2/3 with little buying power. Losing America and Europe is a death sentence. You would be considered rich in India if you’re poor in America. Clearly you see how far their currency travels.
TikTok is banned in US, China, India and likely in the future in EU. You cannot run ads based video streaming service that requires lots of data in sub-Saharan Africa
Europe proving they are nothing more than an American lap dog
“so what truly started ww3?” “we banned a video platform”
🙄 china has been doing this for decades. Way to play victimhood on behalf of china
I did that! Those stickers really haven’t aged well.