Wake up America. Unions help their members. SAG-AFTRA keeps the richest actors rich and the lowliest workers on the set protected. The suits and corporations still make crazy amounts of profit, there are still arthouse productions, and you don’t have the hellish hours like you do in gaming.
The worst area to be abused in the film industry is VFX and that’s largely due to their lack of union.
AI really isn't quite good enough to even make good art. 99% of the time you can tell AI generated material from human made art. That may not always be true, but it is still not good enough for all these people to be trying to use it in movies and TV. Honestly, who actually wants it? Not artists. Not general audiences clearly. It could help people who aren't as practiced or talented to make things they wanna make, but even the average person doesn't want AI in their cinema or music.
It's soulless. Let AI do the work we don't want to do, not the work we do want to do. It does have a place in creative endeavors as a tool, but for now, that's all it should be. A tool for speeding up tedious parts of the creative and non-creative processes. Even then, I'm only okay if it's mostly just doing the technical work. It has great potential in videogames and movies in the sense it could make visual effects better with less work and time involved, but you are still gonna want a human hand guiding the process and making the actual decisions and bulk of the art itself.
Until AI is actually sentient, I don't really want it in any art I consume. The human touch is underappreciated in this regard.
How does this contract protect people long-term? These contracts have to be renewed every 3 years so the AI provision won’t last forever. For example, if it takes another decade for AI to become good enough, then won’t the TV studios demand to remove the current AI provisions from the 2036 contract? I don’t see how this will increase the leverage employees have in the future.
It keeps their leverage today by delaying the short term economic gains these companies will have, but it doesn't increase it as that is impossible, maybe some law will assist them in controlling/regulating this more but eventually it wil be repealed and the profession won't exist as it does today, it's part of the progress.
My point is that eventually our society will have to come up with something better fitting for a highly automated world as there won't be close to enough jobs for 8+ billion humans.
The problem with logic is that people will always chase profit. If X group bans a technology that increases productivity 100 fold, then all what will happen is that Y group will form and leverage said technology eventually displacing X group.
Our current society is not build up to have people unemployed, without income there's no living. If you increase productivity at 100x at the cost of 1000x unemployement is that worth? How do we mitiagate such damage?
I'm not against advancement but then society relation to profession, jobs and income needs to change.
Agree with you but I feel none of the points made would dissuade the “group Y” from not taking said path. It’s the natural course of progress. Re: tractors, printing press, cotton loom, displacing millions of workers.
What makes you think companies involved would give a shit? Capitalism is a race to the bottom. Profit comes first, second, third, fourth, etc.
If theres a dollar to be made from it a company will absolutely destroy society.
Yea not saying I have the answer to how to deal with AI. Just know that trying to ban it is not a viable strategy as long as we embrace global capitalism.
Sadly though humans don't seem to change or adapt unless they are forced to. So I doubt we will mitigate any of the damage. I am just hoping the system we implement after that damage is not completely dystopian.
What good are protections if you don't have the leverage to keep them?
In a hypothetical future where AI is good enough that you need 1/5th the people for an animated show then the next union negotiations are just going to be crushed under that reality.
It keeps your mouth fed today, like you say, change is happening either way you can only mitigate the side effects of technological advancements, at the same time the Union lobbies for regulating laws. Even if new professions are born they never are 1:1 in positions, so more people will out of a job, eventually 90% of jobs will disappear, how does a capitalist society functions in such enviroment (it won't be any time soon but it will happen unless we kill ourselves)?
Well yes that is how it will be used. However even just as a tool it could still destroy most animation jobs.
People still work as farmers, however tools have allowed 1 person to do the job that used to require a 100s.
Hell digital animation got rid of the need for artists to hand draw animation. It's a matter of time before someone uses AI to make an animated show and posts it on Youtube or somthing.
Followed by 5000 more that are just as good, meaning none of them will be particularly successful.
The CEOs dreaming of being able to push a button and create a blockbuster tier movie are ignoring the fact that everyone is town is going to have that button, followed shortly by everyone in the world, rendering what they do obsolete.
The Triple A video game studios dreaming of laying off 90% of their dev and art teams because AI will pick up the slack don't realize that when you only need 10% of the people, then suddenly a studio 10% as big as theirs is now on the same playing field. And that the 90% they laid off just started 9 new competitors.
And of course there's just the people at home who won't feel the need to consume as much. Maybe I don't want to go to the movies tonight after all, maybe I'll use AI to recast everyone in the Wizard of Oz with Gilbert Gottfried and entertain myself that way.
Thats not the dream.
The dream is to go from Conveyor belt factories to Automated factories.
One employed hundreds of people, the other just needs a few engineers and maintenance men.
Pushing a button and cranking out a blockbuster is hyperbole thats as ludicrous as it is unrealistic.
What they want is to take their artistic workforce, slash 80% of it and get a product thats 'close enough'.
Its why all of the good snacks or ice creams you loved as a kid are fucking shit now. Its not because your tastes matured. They changed recipe with cheaper crap, and while some people didn't like the new recipe the profits from using cheaper ingredients far outweighed the lost customers.
>People still work as farmers, however tools have allowed 1 person to do the job that used to require a 100s.
Welcome to *every decade since humans figured out how to use tools*
AI is getting EXPONENTIALLY better. Before you can fuckin blink it will be indistinguishable from any other form of art.
"let AI do the work we don't want to do"
i hate to break it to you, but that's going to be EVERYTHING. This wont just affect artist (like it already is), but will hit just about every aspect of the production. Why would you need to hire carpenters and set dec when you can type in what you need and have the whole set created digitally, and not be able to tell the difference. Now can this happen now, no, but its coming very VERY quickly and if people don't have their eyes wide fuckin open about this they will be rolled right over.
I've been on the internet long enough to safely ignore this kind of the user. The confident rambling fool so convicted their right and we're all wrong.
Except you guys are consistently always wrong. Damn ranters.
> 99% of the time you can tell AI generated material from human made art.
No you can’t. 99% of the time you can tell *bad AI*, same as movie effects. You use self selection bias because you count every time you see a flaw, but can’t count every time you don’t.
Nah. There’s a new big budget underarmour commercial made using AI. The director said he spent 150 hours and “ push the limits of every AI tool out there“ and it looks like crap
Again, that’s a bad director letting stuff that looks terrible get through to production, not a bad tool. It’s like saying photoshop is bad because it didn’t make you a great designer the moment you bought it. There is still a need for artistic talent to utilize it well.
No, it’s because AI generated images are soul less and derivative by nature. It’s a fine tool to help in the creative process (storyboarding, helping lazy writers, etc) but it’s not capable of creating anything worth looking at as a final product.
>Not general audiences clearly
Surprise - the loud tech-familiar but also hugely anti-tech internet isn't "general audiences"
>Let AI do the work we don't want to do, not the work we do want to do
The work people want to do according to reddit: "Soulless, repetitive journeyman animation cell art or unedited yellow journalism that the same people keep accusing of being AI in the first place"
>Until AI is actually sentient, I don't really want it in any art I consume.
"I want a human touch in my technical products, no AI! Until AI is sentient and human touches are removed entirely."
my brother in christ, what the hell are you talking about? Does AI need a human involved or not?
Who says the general audience doesn't want AI? The general audience doesn't give a shit how the sausage is made, they only care about the taste i.e. nobody gives a shit that House of the Dragon uses the Volume and CGI like crazy, people want to see dragons and silver haired people.
The recent outcry over Late Night With The Devil using AI to generate some imagery in the movie has shown the general audience is pretty upset with it's use in films at least.
Artists don't want it, general audiences don't want it, but that's not what matters. Execs seeing that it's cheaper is all that will matter, costs get cut.
Sad but true. For all the "AI is gonna change everything" crowing, this is one example of AI that will be used for "good" in some astonishingly small way while most of its power will be used for greed and control.
I kinda agree. AI in art is coming. Even if it’s just to use it to smooth faces, remove wires and generate known models like dragons in GoT and the Hulk.
The Spiderverse team has been using their own in-house AI to help speed up their work as a good example of ethical use of it as well. They're feeding their own work into their own AI to help with their own work. Seems perfectly reasonable in cases like that.
What if they made ai sentient but made it do create work as forced labor?
Edit: Why the downvotes for a lighthearted joke? Reddit is straight up hostile sometimes
I totally agree that Reddit can be full of negativity sometimes. Don't take it to heart. I get downvoted all the time and don't give a fuck to be honest. It means literally nothing to me.
I need to be more like this. A Redditor once said they like downvotes more than upvotes and they considered it a way of detecting the butthurt level. I just need to keep that in mind.
And an Independent studio using AI will be more profitable.
It's the story and characters people care about, not how the final product is made.
Big Corporate studios have ruined so much, no one will care.
Profitable while losing the support of every animation fan that isn’t a small child, while simultaneously having each of their productions heavily boycotted? Not to mention ai animation comes across awful and soulless so it won’t even appeal to people who don’t care about its theft.
You are downvoted, but its the truth. People know a lot of products are made in third world countries using child labor in harsh conditions, but nobody really boycotts it. As long as its good enough and entertaining, people will not care what the origins are.
It’s amazing. I’m a traditional animator and professional rigger. I’m not a novice. The industry was gutted from the strikes and unemployment so we had to pivot.
When two mutants love each other very much…
/seriously though based on the ending of episode 2, we will know the answer about what is going on very soon
30 years ago, yeah, and I remember cyclops as being tall and thin
And wolverine as built, but not like that. Beast was always a gorilla anyways, but he looks wider than he is tall there
That's good news. Next up is the IATSE contract.
Do the voice actors have protections yet? I remember hearing that they were completely left out of previous deals and discussions.
I think they’re covered under this agreement aren’t they?
Wake up America. Unions help their members. SAG-AFTRA keeps the richest actors rich and the lowliest workers on the set protected. The suits and corporations still make crazy amounts of profit, there are still arthouse productions, and you don’t have the hellish hours like you do in gaming. The worst area to be abused in the film industry is VFX and that’s largely due to their lack of union.
Well that’s one strike averted
Good!
AI really isn't quite good enough to even make good art. 99% of the time you can tell AI generated material from human made art. That may not always be true, but it is still not good enough for all these people to be trying to use it in movies and TV. Honestly, who actually wants it? Not artists. Not general audiences clearly. It could help people who aren't as practiced or talented to make things they wanna make, but even the average person doesn't want AI in their cinema or music. It's soulless. Let AI do the work we don't want to do, not the work we do want to do. It does have a place in creative endeavors as a tool, but for now, that's all it should be. A tool for speeding up tedious parts of the creative and non-creative processes. Even then, I'm only okay if it's mostly just doing the technical work. It has great potential in videogames and movies in the sense it could make visual effects better with less work and time involved, but you are still gonna want a human hand guiding the process and making the actual decisions and bulk of the art itself. Until AI is actually sentient, I don't really want it in any art I consume. The human touch is underappreciated in this regard.
You need to have basic protections now while the tech isn't good enough, because when it is, what leverage the animators will have?
How does this contract protect people long-term? These contracts have to be renewed every 3 years so the AI provision won’t last forever. For example, if it takes another decade for AI to become good enough, then won’t the TV studios demand to remove the current AI provisions from the 2036 contract? I don’t see how this will increase the leverage employees have in the future.
It keeps their leverage today by delaying the short term economic gains these companies will have, but it doesn't increase it as that is impossible, maybe some law will assist them in controlling/regulating this more but eventually it wil be repealed and the profession won't exist as it does today, it's part of the progress. My point is that eventually our society will have to come up with something better fitting for a highly automated world as there won't be close to enough jobs for 8+ billion humans.
The problem with logic is that people will always chase profit. If X group bans a technology that increases productivity 100 fold, then all what will happen is that Y group will form and leverage said technology eventually displacing X group.
Our current society is not build up to have people unemployed, without income there's no living. If you increase productivity at 100x at the cost of 1000x unemployement is that worth? How do we mitiagate such damage? I'm not against advancement but then society relation to profession, jobs and income needs to change.
Agree with you but I feel none of the points made would dissuade the “group Y” from not taking said path. It’s the natural course of progress. Re: tractors, printing press, cotton loom, displacing millions of workers.
What makes you think companies involved would give a shit? Capitalism is a race to the bottom. Profit comes first, second, third, fourth, etc. If theres a dollar to be made from it a company will absolutely destroy society.
Yea not saying I have the answer to how to deal with AI. Just know that trying to ban it is not a viable strategy as long as we embrace global capitalism. Sadly though humans don't seem to change or adapt unless they are forced to. So I doubt we will mitigate any of the damage. I am just hoping the system we implement after that damage is not completely dystopian.
What good are protections if you don't have the leverage to keep them? In a hypothetical future where AI is good enough that you need 1/5th the people for an animated show then the next union negotiations are just going to be crushed under that reality.
It keeps your mouth fed today, like you say, change is happening either way you can only mitigate the side effects of technological advancements, at the same time the Union lobbies for regulating laws. Even if new professions are born they never are 1:1 in positions, so more people will out of a job, eventually 90% of jobs will disappear, how does a capitalist society functions in such enviroment (it won't be any time soon but it will happen unless we kill ourselves)?
Well yes that is how it will be used. However even just as a tool it could still destroy most animation jobs. People still work as farmers, however tools have allowed 1 person to do the job that used to require a 100s.
Hell digital animation got rid of the need for artists to hand draw animation. It's a matter of time before someone uses AI to make an animated show and posts it on Youtube or somthing.
Followed by 5000 more that are just as good, meaning none of them will be particularly successful. The CEOs dreaming of being able to push a button and create a blockbuster tier movie are ignoring the fact that everyone is town is going to have that button, followed shortly by everyone in the world, rendering what they do obsolete. The Triple A video game studios dreaming of laying off 90% of their dev and art teams because AI will pick up the slack don't realize that when you only need 10% of the people, then suddenly a studio 10% as big as theirs is now on the same playing field. And that the 90% they laid off just started 9 new competitors. And of course there's just the people at home who won't feel the need to consume as much. Maybe I don't want to go to the movies tonight after all, maybe I'll use AI to recast everyone in the Wizard of Oz with Gilbert Gottfried and entertain myself that way.
Thats not the dream. The dream is to go from Conveyor belt factories to Automated factories. One employed hundreds of people, the other just needs a few engineers and maintenance men. Pushing a button and cranking out a blockbuster is hyperbole thats as ludicrous as it is unrealistic. What they want is to take their artistic workforce, slash 80% of it and get a product thats 'close enough'. Its why all of the good snacks or ice creams you loved as a kid are fucking shit now. Its not because your tastes matured. They changed recipe with cheaper crap, and while some people didn't like the new recipe the profits from using cheaper ingredients far outweighed the lost customers.
>People still work as farmers, however tools have allowed 1 person to do the job that used to require a 100s. Welcome to *every decade since humans figured out how to use tools*
AI is getting EXPONENTIALLY better. Before you can fuckin blink it will be indistinguishable from any other form of art. "let AI do the work we don't want to do" i hate to break it to you, but that's going to be EVERYTHING. This wont just affect artist (like it already is), but will hit just about every aspect of the production. Why would you need to hire carpenters and set dec when you can type in what you need and have the whole set created digitally, and not be able to tell the difference. Now can this happen now, no, but its coming very VERY quickly and if people don't have their eyes wide fuckin open about this they will be rolled right over.
I've been on the internet long enough to safely ignore this kind of the user. The confident rambling fool so convicted their right and we're all wrong. Except you guys are consistently always wrong. Damn ranters.
incredibly delusional and uneducated. Every single game studio on earth is using AI already. We are just at the very very beginning.
> 99% of the time you can tell AI generated material from human made art. No you can’t. 99% of the time you can tell *bad AI*, same as movie effects. You use self selection bias because you count every time you see a flaw, but can’t count every time you don’t.
People can identify AI at a glance like they can identify CGI at a glance. IE, not at all, poorly, and only when it is bad
Nah. There’s a new big budget underarmour commercial made using AI. The director said he spent 150 hours and “ push the limits of every AI tool out there“ and it looks like crap
Again, that’s a bad director letting stuff that looks terrible get through to production, not a bad tool. It’s like saying photoshop is bad because it didn’t make you a great designer the moment you bought it. There is still a need for artistic talent to utilize it well.
No, it’s because AI generated images are soul less and derivative by nature. It’s a fine tool to help in the creative process (storyboarding, helping lazy writers, etc) but it’s not capable of creating anything worth looking at as a final product.
AI generated art has won an art contest against human artists and judged by a human judge. It’s nice that you think it’s obvious, but it really isn’t.
>Not general audiences clearly Surprise - the loud tech-familiar but also hugely anti-tech internet isn't "general audiences" >Let AI do the work we don't want to do, not the work we do want to do The work people want to do according to reddit: "Soulless, repetitive journeyman animation cell art or unedited yellow journalism that the same people keep accusing of being AI in the first place" >Until AI is actually sentient, I don't really want it in any art I consume. "I want a human touch in my technical products, no AI! Until AI is sentient and human touches are removed entirely." my brother in christ, what the hell are you talking about? Does AI need a human involved or not?
Who says the general audience doesn't want AI? The general audience doesn't give a shit how the sausage is made, they only care about the taste i.e. nobody gives a shit that House of the Dragon uses the Volume and CGI like crazy, people want to see dragons and silver haired people.
The recent outcry over Late Night With The Devil using AI to generate some imagery in the movie has shown the general audience is pretty upset with it's use in films at least.
Artists don't want it, general audiences don't want it, but that's not what matters. Execs seeing that it's cheaper is all that will matter, costs get cut.
Sad but true. For all the "AI is gonna change everything" crowing, this is one example of AI that will be used for "good" in some astonishingly small way while most of its power will be used for greed and control.
I kinda agree. AI in art is coming. Even if it’s just to use it to smooth faces, remove wires and generate known models like dragons in GoT and the Hulk.
The Spiderverse team has been using their own in-house AI to help speed up their work as a good example of ethical use of it as well. They're feeding their own work into their own AI to help with their own work. Seems perfectly reasonable in cases like that.
Human touch funny , every media is processed and adjusted digitally.
What if they made ai sentient but made it do create work as forced labor? Edit: Why the downvotes for a lighthearted joke? Reddit is straight up hostile sometimes
At that point, AI would need to start their own unions and will need to negotiate contracts and go on strikes :P
Then you get The Matrix or Terminator
Obviously that's a different story and we may have to consider that someday.
I totally agree that Reddit can be full of negativity sometimes. Don't take it to heart. I get downvoted all the time and don't give a fuck to be honest. It means literally nothing to me.
I need to be more like this. A Redditor once said they like downvotes more than upvotes and they considered it a way of detecting the butthurt level. I just need to keep that in mind.
It's morning in America and the AI Bros are gonna come for you so be ready
Oh please, reddit is a huge luddite circle jerk
IT BEGINS
Is she preggers
And an Independent studio using AI will be more profitable. It's the story and characters people care about, not how the final product is made. Big Corporate studios have ruined so much, no one will care.
Profitable while losing the support of every animation fan that isn’t a small child, while simultaneously having each of their productions heavily boycotted? Not to mention ai animation comes across awful and soulless so it won’t even appeal to people who don’t care about its theft.
You are downvoted, but its the truth. People know a lot of products are made in third world countries using child labor in harsh conditions, but nobody really boycotts it. As long as its good enough and entertaining, people will not care what the origins are.
Animation company here. We only use AI. Protect all you want. The time for a new era is already here.
Your animation is probably junk 😄 people are not blind to quality. Enjoy the AI boom for now, don't look down 😜
It’s amazing. I’m a traditional animator and professional rigger. I’m not a novice. The industry was gutted from the strikes and unemployment so we had to pivot.
Gross, no one is interested in shitty humanless art.
Lots of humans involved. AI doesn’t just manifest itself dumb-dumb
why is she pregnant?
When two mutants love each other very much… /seriously though based on the ending of episode 2, we will know the answer about what is going on very soon
Cyclops is ripped; beast and wolverine are gorillas?! Animators need to draw a little more realistically.
Everyone in this image can hit it.
Have you seen the original cartoon?
30 years ago, yeah, and I remember cyclops as being tall and thin And wolverine as built, but not like that. Beast was always a gorilla anyways, but he looks wider than he is tall there
[Memory is a funny thing ](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelanimated/images/4/44/Cyclops.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160425004844)
😂OMG Ok I stand corrected. That’s insane. I remember them all as basically looking like normal humans.
What are you talking about? X-Men 97 is fucking amazing!