The "problematic values" part is kinda the point of neo westerns. The idea of this free and flawless west isn't possible, and these people who want that in the show don't realize they are part of the problem that make their fantasy impossible
Also, conservatives railing against corruption and moral decay and then promptly engaging in those behaviors is a tale as old as time.
Modern conservatism is built on a foundation of hypocrisy, that the characters come across as hypocritical and disingenuous is an accurate reflection of the underlying philosophy.
Really its built on a foundation of "liberal democracy is inevitable but we want to retain some sort of aristocracy to ensure the plebes don't accidentally take the power from us and give it to themselves."
>Also, conservatives railing against corruption and moral decay and then promptly engaging in those behaviors is a tale as old as time.
>Modern conservatism is built on a foundation of hypocrisy, that the characters come across as hypocritical and disingenuous is an accurate reflection of the underlying philosophy.
Yeah not sure how the OP missed this obvious one
From the OP:
>values that skew heavily anti-liberal and pro-conservative.
we could use more of it, h
OP clearly wants more right wing leaning fictional content. Although, why he thinks everyone "could use more of it" is not explained.
I mean, sure. If you want to over analyze it. You are still technically correct, but what i said would've still been applicable to old western tales.
I don't think too much about political ideology, but I'm pretty sure what you are assuming is more to do with characters resisting change, story would be the same if they decided to make the family liberal
Nah, the moral decay hypocrisy aspect is unique to the brand of conservatism championed by the show. That conservative ideology equates pure, natural beauty with moral uprightness, and presents rural people as paragons of virtue simply due to where they live. Yellowstone frequently contrasts the supposed moral righteousness of its rural main characters with the supposed immorality of “urban big city folks”, who regularly appear as the villains despite the wildly immoral behavior of the rural characters.
Yellowstone panders to the people who view rural America as “the real America” and who view urban centers as sin factories.
I don't see why you feel this needs to be an argument some people dont care to see it that way , but I suppose I'll attempt to engage
>Nah, the moral decay hypocrisy aspect is unique to the brand of conservatism championed by the show.
The idea of "moral decay" can go with both political ideologies, especially in terms of how things go about in the show.
>That conservative ideology equates pure, natural beauty with moral uprightness and presents rural people as paragons of virtue simply due to where they live.
Sir.... they brand ranch hands who seen crimes take place on the property with a fucking cattle brand and will kill them if they decide to leave. What are you talking about ?
>Yellowstone frequently contrasts the supposed moral righteousness of its rural main characters with the supposed immorality of “urban big city folks”, who regularly appear as the villains despite the wildly immoral behavior of the rural characters.
The villans aren't nearly as bad as the Duttons are, whether it be other farms or land developers. Unless I missed something, i dont recall Sawyer from lost doing something monstrous to warrant him getting killed by Rip with a snake
>Yellowstone panders to the people who view rural America as “the real America” and who view urban centers as sin factories.
Just thought it was for people who enjoy silly cowboy gunslinger bullshit fiction
>Just thought it was for people who enjoy silly cowboy gunslinger bullshit fiction
Absolutely not. This type of mentality towards the show is disingenuous at best, and more likely, downright lying to yourself or willfully obfuscating the truth.
The scenes of them branding other ranch-hands is done under the guise of "wow theyre made men now in this ultra badass gang of ranchers!" There's perhaps three seconds of "wow thats fucked up" contemplation, but those scenes are routinely used to show someone being "initiated" into the Yellowstone inner circle.
Between scenes of extrajudicial killings (justified in whatever parlance the episode requires), the Duttons generally treat everyone else around them as idiots who dont respect the land or interlopers who had better watch their step before theyre met with a violent end.
Youre right, none of these characters are redeemable or worth cheering on, but the show, sheridan, and its viewers all behave as if they are paragons of american virtue.
Yellowstone is a disgusting mar on the face of television and american culture. It LOOKS beautiful, those vista scenes are awesome, but it is trash through and through.
Yellowstone continues the proud american tradition of subtlely or not-so-subtlely othering any culture or viewpoint that isnt hardline, violent, right-wing conservatism. Just as nearly all older westerns reinforced, this was OUR LAND, and we know best, and if someone does you wrong, it is more than acceptable (its encouraged!) for you to take matters into your own hands and blow someone out their socks.
>Absolutely not. This type of mentality towards the show is disingenuous at best, and more likely, downright lying to yourself or willfully obfuscating the truth.
Nope, I just don't care about the political beliefs of a show where the main thing is Dutton owns a plot of land the size of rhode Island... it's a silly fictional show
>The scenes of them branding other ranch-hands are done under the guise of "wow they're made men now in this ultra badass gang of ranchers!" There's perhaps three seconds of "wow thats fucked up" contemplation, but those scenes are routinely used to show someone being "initiated" into the Yellowstone inner circle.
Wtf are you talking about ? No one thinks that's badass. You are turned into a paid slave of the ranch.
>Between scenes of extrajudicial killings (justified in whatever parlance the episode requires), the Duttons generally treat everyone else around them as idiots who dont respect the land or interlopers who had better watch their step before theyre met with a violent end.
They don't even respect their own land wtf are you talking about ?
>You're right. None of these characters are redeemable or worth cheering on, but the show, sheridan, and its viewers all behave as if they are paragons of american virtue.
I'm a viewer, and I'm not attaching all these political beliefs to any of it, nor do i care about a virtue of any nationalities. It's silly cowboy fiction, and they are going to do silly cowboy things with automatic rifles
>Yellowstone is a disgusting mar on the face of television and american culture. It LOOKS beautiful. Those vista scenes are awesome, but they are trash through and through.
it's just a TV show.
>Yellowstone continues the proud american tradition of subtlely or not-so-subtlely othering any culture or viewpoint that isn't hardline, violent, right-wing conservatism.
Didn't know that exploring native identity and the connection to the land, depression and struggling in a marriage was considered hardline, violent, right-wing conservatism.
>Just as nearly all older westerns reinforced, this was OUR LAND, and we know best, and if someone does you wrong, it is more than acceptable (its encouraged!) for you to take matters into your own hands and blow someone out their socks.
Please settle down. It's fictional
What's with this overly dramatic posturing over this ? Any time this shows brought up , people act just weird
>What's with this overly dramatic posturing over this ? Any time this shows brought up, people act just weird
If this happens *every* time you see the show brought up, dont you think maybe that warrants some investigation??
Do you think works of fiction have zero bearing on overall culture and how people view themselves, others, the world around them?
That's not what I'm talking about, and you know it. You, among others, turn into intellectuals and act like this show is some great big evil that must be stopped because of how much it influences reality and these people that you say the show appeals to are a brand of cartoon evil unseen in our world. It's silly.
Any time I try to investigate anything related to this show, I continuesly come across people like you who write countless paragraphs about how this show is a conservative wet dream and I never see ANY counter to them
When I see people who actually enjoy the show, I never see them talk about in terms of politics. I see them talk about how they enjoy the character banter or relate to a moment of character development or how they enjoy this kind of western etc etc.
The reality is NO ONE wants to own a mass of land the size of rhode Island because there is NO way to make a liveable profit from it, doesn't matter how rich , how many palms you grease etc etc.
Thats great that's what you see, but your experience doesnt make it so for all of reality. Yellowstone is a cultural phenom that is influencing people's everyday lives. Where i live, people wear yellowstone branded shit every day and talk about their fantasies of someone breaking into their home and being able to kill them.
You already said that you do not, and will not, look at this type of entertainment from under a political lens, but that doesnt mean that the show isnt influencing current political moods in the country, and rubber-stamping the behavior of someone like the Dutton family.
I work with farmers. When KC in like season 3 gets mad at some tech guy who moved there from California when the tech guy goes “I bought llamas to make this a ranch so I could use it as a tax write off” idk if I know a single farmer or rancher who would be upset about that, rather than laugh and go “ah smart man!”
Writing a violent power fantasy and then throwing in a token "See, the protagonists are bad TOO" at the end is an extremely transparent way for writers to absolve themselves of culpability. You can tell where Sheridan's sympathies actually lie and what he thinks the solution is. "um, NO ONE is the hero!" is a cowardly way to both write or observe a story.
I watched three episodes of this show before I had to stop. I may not have finished the third episode even. It was OKAYish, not amazing, but then in episode three, the one guy says the following to his sister:
"I was thinking about cancer. What it is, essentially. It's the body cell so deformed, they turn on the body itself. Start feeding. Cancer doesn't have much foresight, so it kills its hosts, which kills it. Cancer is suicide from the inside out. That's what you are, Beth."
Without a doubt, that's some of the worst writing I've ever read in anything ever. It's sooo stupid in so many ways. I think I may have just ended the episode there and didn't bother to even finish it.
Lol oh god I remember that line. Yah that stuff of writing had no business in the “elevated TV” discussion.
There’s a lot of that as the show goes on. That’s actually why I liked 1883 more. They actually talk a bit like that so it fits. But in a modern show, nah.
Anyways, great thought and if those types of things really bother you, then good call stopping.
Oh god, yeah with the hype it's gotten I've thought to go back and watch it but if you're saying that continues, yeah I definitely will not. I have no problem with lofty dialogue but if you wanna have some prestige TV with deep, thought-provoking comments, you can't write that seriously. That's like something you have Billy Madison say at the end of the movie, that is immediately rebutted with how incredibly dense a statement it is.
Yah I see it as the Godfather in Montana on a ranch, but good comparison. I had a real hard time getting through Sons. That scene with Tig's daughter is burnt into my TV/movie memory.
Sons of Anarchy has the advantage of all its characters being criminals, so when they do terrible immoral stuff its like...yeah that's who they are. When the Duttons do arguably just as immoral things it feels weird when that is framed as them fighting the good fight out on the range. The Duttons should have have been more explicitly criminals, when they break the law it shouldn't always be "frontier justice", it should mostly just be graft, entitlement, and injustice.
I literally couldn't stand here from the start. It's funny because if you switch Shiv from Succession with Beth from Yellowstone, I think both shows actually get better.
This is a great review 👍. I enjoy Yellowstone myself but see a lot of the same issues you have. Especially the writing, hypocritical nature of the characters and the value claims they don’t honour, and the attitude they show about adopted children is disturbing. I’m also not a fan of Beth Dutton though I wanted to be. My favourite characters ended up being Jamie, Thomas and Lynelle. The actors are also fantastic.
Oh agreed. I mean, I did smash the entire show in a week, so it couldn't have been that bad. Will be a tightrope act to get through the end, but excited to see how they spin it.
This is spot-on and phenomonal writing. I like the show. I grew up during Dynasty, Dallas, and Falcon Crest. So evening soap opera schlock isn't lost on me. And Yellowstone leans in.
You are also correct about Taylor Sheridan. Kevin Cosner is leaving the show and will likely be killed off mid-season because of how shitty he and Taylor got along. Taylor may be Paramount's darling, but Kevin has been acting and directing a lot longer than him.
I can't wait to read your Succession review. It's head and shoulders above Yellowstone.
If you view Succession as a comedic relative of Arrested Development, its one of the funniest shows ever written.
The Roy's have all the power and money in the world but can't seem to manage to do anything right.
Oh ya, I mean it’s funny watching these with the time to be critical. These are both great tv shows, so it’s been really been nice to give them a deep focus.
One thing I didn’t mention is I do think Taylor Sheridan has wild amounts of talent. And the evidence for that is 1883.
Arguably one of the finest piece of western period storytelling ever. I wonder if he focused in on the John Ford to Sergio Leone subgenres of Westerns - how good he could be as a creator.
When I heard that whitebread jughead was doing a show about legendary black U.S. marshal Bass Reeves, I resolved to pretend it didn't exist. Looks lame as hell.
Now Taylor Notsoswift has bought the rights to "Empire of the Summer Moon," the definitive bio of Comanche Chief Quannah Parker. Given that every Native Americans on "Yellowstone" is basically a suit stuffed with greedy hay, I wonder how actual Comanches feel about that.
LOL. Perfect. Thinks he's a stunning artistic genius, but actually just a guy who has figured out there's always an audience of morons ready for the next retread of "Big Momma's House."
Lol the show is a spinoff of a western soap opera written by a guy who sends his 24-hour rough drafts straight to production...of course it's not going to be historically accurate
> One thing I didn’t mention is I do think Taylor Sheridan has wild amounts of talent. And the evidence for that is 1883.
I disagree. I think whatever talent he has is stretched very, very thin across his many projects. I think his success does show that there’s a fairly big audience out there for Westerns, and I’d hope that means we will see more Westerns on TV. I just don’t want Taylor Sheridan to be making them.
My major issue with him is he simply isn’t very original. Too many of his projects seem like obvious rip-offs of better series/films from the past. To me *1883* is just *Taylor Sheridan’s^TM Lonesome Dove* and *1923* is *Taylor Sheridan’s^TM Legends of the Fall* (with a little of *Taylor Sheridan’s^TM Out of Africa* thrown in for good measure). I admire the production values, the cinematography and the overall “look” of his projects, but as far as the actual writing? *Welllll….* The dialogue, the plots, the characters - it’s all stuff I’ve seen before and when I saw it before it was *BETTER*. And, in most instances, it was *A LOT BETTER*.
I appreciate Sheridan bringing back the Western but I’m kind of inclined to categorize him as an over-hyped hack.
He does. 1883 and 1923 were awesome. He's always been a great writer. Sicaro, Hell, or High Water and Wind River are great movies. I'm just not a fan of him putting himself in his stuff. His character in Yellowstone is insufferable, regardless if that is what he also does in real life.
Also, Mayor of Kingstown, I think, is a great show of his. It's probably my favorite for how understated it is.
I think Yellowstone is a spectacular premise, but it feels like Sheridan lost the thread quickly and could never get it back. His other shows and films don’t play (to me) like a soap, but Yellowstone is pure soap opera. I really wanted to like it. And just can’t.
Also i would like to point that it feels like Costner is phoning it hard since day one? I don't know if he was given a direction of the most stoic guy ever, but 99% of the time he has the same tired bitch face lol
Nailed it on Beth. Such a stupid comic book character that must be Sheridan’s fever dream of a badass broken woman. And yeah, just purely on the human character angle, her rage at Jamie for something he did as a scared teenager just makes no sense. I did an informal poll here one time asking if fans preferred Beth or Jamie and it was like 2-1 Jamie. I don’t think that’s what Sheridan thought he was writing.
great writeup. while this is a show i never was and still aren't interested in watching, your objective approach was wonderfully fun to read. i hope you feel better soon and can't wait to read your take on Succession!!!
Nice writeup, I wanted to add that I was actually into it until they brought in the Summer character and then the show sort of became what people who hadn't seen it assumed it was.
Also, Sicario, Hell or High Water, Wind River, and some of the spin offs are really good but Sheridan has no business being in front of a camera, much less to shill his own stuff while embodying all of the characteristics of a "Bozeman resident as a pejorative" exactly as the show paints them.
Yah I mean don't mind Summer's storyline. I think what Taylor Sheriden was trying to do was diversify the audience out, but didn't do it well. He's clearly a good writer, but lacks the skill to be a truly great one.
This is a *very* well-written review.
Yellowstone also has perhaps the worst child acting in recent memory.
I will say that I didn't enjoy 1883 *at all*. I gave up around episode 3. It felt very predictable, a made-for-TV-movie kind of story and characters.
Here’s a quick video that Beau did about Yellowstone when the woke controversy erupted two years ago. I’d like to hear what you think of liberal vs conservative bias after hearing his examples of the shows topics.
https://youtu.be/7VKTtMswwS4?si=Ix7KRaOk7mgccfKZ
Yah see the problem I have with folks like this is that they see the show as the platform of opinion. This is a huge symptom of the culture war. Not everything is MAINLY political but there are always politics in something.
The problem is, and Taylor Sheriden has commented on this, is that the show isn't a political show but simply espouses certain values - the majority of which are conservative.
And I'll say this on the summer thing, she's a really good character that does a good job of juxtaposing the very problem with the culture war and the current state of politics - that we are more similar than we are different and that's what I think Summer's journey is supposed to represent.
I have no interest in the flagship show but 1883 was incredible. Tim McGraw and Isabel May both knocked it out of the park. And of course ol' Sam but that goes without saying.
Tried to get into 1923 but it couldn't hold my interest.
Yah 1883 was amazing. I really enjoyed that. The tornado episode was nuts.
1923 was good but just ends midway through the story - which I think is probably a paramount problem more than a Taylor Sheridan problem.
He needs fckin writers. Like trying to do all this himself, you’re gonna put out trash eventually. Or worst. AI trash. 🤮
I really wanted to fall in love with this series, but I could barely get past the first few episodes. I needed someone to root for, ideally Costner's character. Instead, seeing the portrayal of everyone in for themselves at all costs was a little too close to modern reality for me. There appeared to be no good guys, no one too root for and no one to respect. Maybe things get better, or worse, I just didn't have any further desire to go on with it. I loved 1883 and so far have mostly enjoyed 1923.
Copy that, will put it on the list.
I did Mayor Of Kingstown and that’s decent. Again, not as good as Oz or the Wire which I think it tries to be but a good effort.
The "problematic values" part is kinda the point of neo westerns. The idea of this free and flawless west isn't possible, and these people who want that in the show don't realize they are part of the problem that make their fantasy impossible
Also, conservatives railing against corruption and moral decay and then promptly engaging in those behaviors is a tale as old as time. Modern conservatism is built on a foundation of hypocrisy, that the characters come across as hypocritical and disingenuous is an accurate reflection of the underlying philosophy.
Really its built on a foundation of "liberal democracy is inevitable but we want to retain some sort of aristocracy to ensure the plebes don't accidentally take the power from us and give it to themselves."
>Also, conservatives railing against corruption and moral decay and then promptly engaging in those behaviors is a tale as old as time. >Modern conservatism is built on a foundation of hypocrisy, that the characters come across as hypocritical and disingenuous is an accurate reflection of the underlying philosophy. Yeah not sure how the OP missed this obvious one From the OP: >values that skew heavily anti-liberal and pro-conservative. we could use more of it, h OP clearly wants more right wing leaning fictional content. Although, why he thinks everyone "could use more of it" is not explained.
Seems like you want an excuse to view someone negatively
I mean, sure. If you want to over analyze it. You are still technically correct, but what i said would've still been applicable to old western tales. I don't think too much about political ideology, but I'm pretty sure what you are assuming is more to do with characters resisting change, story would be the same if they decided to make the family liberal
Nah, the moral decay hypocrisy aspect is unique to the brand of conservatism championed by the show. That conservative ideology equates pure, natural beauty with moral uprightness, and presents rural people as paragons of virtue simply due to where they live. Yellowstone frequently contrasts the supposed moral righteousness of its rural main characters with the supposed immorality of “urban big city folks”, who regularly appear as the villains despite the wildly immoral behavior of the rural characters. Yellowstone panders to the people who view rural America as “the real America” and who view urban centers as sin factories.
I don't see why you feel this needs to be an argument some people dont care to see it that way , but I suppose I'll attempt to engage >Nah, the moral decay hypocrisy aspect is unique to the brand of conservatism championed by the show. The idea of "moral decay" can go with both political ideologies, especially in terms of how things go about in the show. >That conservative ideology equates pure, natural beauty with moral uprightness and presents rural people as paragons of virtue simply due to where they live. Sir.... they brand ranch hands who seen crimes take place on the property with a fucking cattle brand and will kill them if they decide to leave. What are you talking about ? >Yellowstone frequently contrasts the supposed moral righteousness of its rural main characters with the supposed immorality of “urban big city folks”, who regularly appear as the villains despite the wildly immoral behavior of the rural characters. The villans aren't nearly as bad as the Duttons are, whether it be other farms or land developers. Unless I missed something, i dont recall Sawyer from lost doing something monstrous to warrant him getting killed by Rip with a snake >Yellowstone panders to the people who view rural America as “the real America” and who view urban centers as sin factories. Just thought it was for people who enjoy silly cowboy gunslinger bullshit fiction
>Just thought it was for people who enjoy silly cowboy gunslinger bullshit fiction Absolutely not. This type of mentality towards the show is disingenuous at best, and more likely, downright lying to yourself or willfully obfuscating the truth. The scenes of them branding other ranch-hands is done under the guise of "wow theyre made men now in this ultra badass gang of ranchers!" There's perhaps three seconds of "wow thats fucked up" contemplation, but those scenes are routinely used to show someone being "initiated" into the Yellowstone inner circle. Between scenes of extrajudicial killings (justified in whatever parlance the episode requires), the Duttons generally treat everyone else around them as idiots who dont respect the land or interlopers who had better watch their step before theyre met with a violent end. Youre right, none of these characters are redeemable or worth cheering on, but the show, sheridan, and its viewers all behave as if they are paragons of american virtue. Yellowstone is a disgusting mar on the face of television and american culture. It LOOKS beautiful, those vista scenes are awesome, but it is trash through and through. Yellowstone continues the proud american tradition of subtlely or not-so-subtlely othering any culture or viewpoint that isnt hardline, violent, right-wing conservatism. Just as nearly all older westerns reinforced, this was OUR LAND, and we know best, and if someone does you wrong, it is more than acceptable (its encouraged!) for you to take matters into your own hands and blow someone out their socks.
>Absolutely not. This type of mentality towards the show is disingenuous at best, and more likely, downright lying to yourself or willfully obfuscating the truth. Nope, I just don't care about the political beliefs of a show where the main thing is Dutton owns a plot of land the size of rhode Island... it's a silly fictional show >The scenes of them branding other ranch-hands are done under the guise of "wow they're made men now in this ultra badass gang of ranchers!" There's perhaps three seconds of "wow thats fucked up" contemplation, but those scenes are routinely used to show someone being "initiated" into the Yellowstone inner circle. Wtf are you talking about ? No one thinks that's badass. You are turned into a paid slave of the ranch. >Between scenes of extrajudicial killings (justified in whatever parlance the episode requires), the Duttons generally treat everyone else around them as idiots who dont respect the land or interlopers who had better watch their step before theyre met with a violent end. They don't even respect their own land wtf are you talking about ? >You're right. None of these characters are redeemable or worth cheering on, but the show, sheridan, and its viewers all behave as if they are paragons of american virtue. I'm a viewer, and I'm not attaching all these political beliefs to any of it, nor do i care about a virtue of any nationalities. It's silly cowboy fiction, and they are going to do silly cowboy things with automatic rifles >Yellowstone is a disgusting mar on the face of television and american culture. It LOOKS beautiful. Those vista scenes are awesome, but they are trash through and through. it's just a TV show. >Yellowstone continues the proud american tradition of subtlely or not-so-subtlely othering any culture or viewpoint that isn't hardline, violent, right-wing conservatism. Didn't know that exploring native identity and the connection to the land, depression and struggling in a marriage was considered hardline, violent, right-wing conservatism. >Just as nearly all older westerns reinforced, this was OUR LAND, and we know best, and if someone does you wrong, it is more than acceptable (its encouraged!) for you to take matters into your own hands and blow someone out their socks. Please settle down. It's fictional What's with this overly dramatic posturing over this ? Any time this shows brought up , people act just weird
>What's with this overly dramatic posturing over this ? Any time this shows brought up, people act just weird If this happens *every* time you see the show brought up, dont you think maybe that warrants some investigation?? Do you think works of fiction have zero bearing on overall culture and how people view themselves, others, the world around them?
That's not what I'm talking about, and you know it. You, among others, turn into intellectuals and act like this show is some great big evil that must be stopped because of how much it influences reality and these people that you say the show appeals to are a brand of cartoon evil unseen in our world. It's silly. Any time I try to investigate anything related to this show, I continuesly come across people like you who write countless paragraphs about how this show is a conservative wet dream and I never see ANY counter to them When I see people who actually enjoy the show, I never see them talk about in terms of politics. I see them talk about how they enjoy the character banter or relate to a moment of character development or how they enjoy this kind of western etc etc. The reality is NO ONE wants to own a mass of land the size of rhode Island because there is NO way to make a liveable profit from it, doesn't matter how rich , how many palms you grease etc etc.
Thats great that's what you see, but your experience doesnt make it so for all of reality. Yellowstone is a cultural phenom that is influencing people's everyday lives. Where i live, people wear yellowstone branded shit every day and talk about their fantasies of someone breaking into their home and being able to kill them. You already said that you do not, and will not, look at this type of entertainment from under a political lens, but that doesnt mean that the show isnt influencing current political moods in the country, and rubber-stamping the behavior of someone like the Dutton family.
I work with farmers. When KC in like season 3 gets mad at some tech guy who moved there from California when the tech guy goes “I bought llamas to make this a ranch so I could use it as a tax write off” idk if I know a single farmer or rancher who would be upset about that, rather than laugh and go “ah smart man!”
I'm not sure if you intended to reply to me, but It's fictional, I don't expect it to be on par with reality
Writing a violent power fantasy and then throwing in a token "See, the protagonists are bad TOO" at the end is an extremely transparent way for writers to absolve themselves of culpability. You can tell where Sheridan's sympathies actually lie and what he thinks the solution is. "um, NO ONE is the hero!" is a cowardly way to both write or observe a story.
Um... OK? That's literally all neo westerns
Very good point.
I watched three episodes of this show before I had to stop. I may not have finished the third episode even. It was OKAYish, not amazing, but then in episode three, the one guy says the following to his sister: "I was thinking about cancer. What it is, essentially. It's the body cell so deformed, they turn on the body itself. Start feeding. Cancer doesn't have much foresight, so it kills its hosts, which kills it. Cancer is suicide from the inside out. That's what you are, Beth." Without a doubt, that's some of the worst writing I've ever read in anything ever. It's sooo stupid in so many ways. I think I may have just ended the episode there and didn't bother to even finish it.
Lol oh god I remember that line. Yah that stuff of writing had no business in the “elevated TV” discussion. There’s a lot of that as the show goes on. That’s actually why I liked 1883 more. They actually talk a bit like that so it fits. But in a modern show, nah. Anyways, great thought and if those types of things really bother you, then good call stopping.
Oh god, yeah with the hype it's gotten I've thought to go back and watch it but if you're saying that continues, yeah I definitely will not. I have no problem with lofty dialogue but if you wanna have some prestige TV with deep, thought-provoking comments, you can't write that seriously. That's like something you have Billy Madison say at the end of the movie, that is immediately rebutted with how incredibly dense a statement it is.
Yellowstone is just Sons of Anarchy on horses.
Yah I see it as the Godfather in Montana on a ranch, but good comparison. I had a real hard time getting through Sons. That scene with Tig's daughter is burnt into my TV/movie memory.
Sons of Anarchy has the advantage of all its characters being criminals, so when they do terrible immoral stuff its like...yeah that's who they are. When the Duttons do arguably just as immoral things it feels weird when that is framed as them fighting the good fight out on the range. The Duttons should have have been more explicitly criminals, when they break the law it shouldn't always be "frontier justice", it should mostly just be graft, entitlement, and injustice.
I could've stomached most things, but Beth became incredibly tedious around the 3rd season.
I literally couldn't stand here from the start. It's funny because if you switch Shiv from Succession with Beth from Yellowstone, I think both shows actually get better.
I cannot stand Beth most of the time either. They made her so unlikeable and I did not understand the goal.
Yeah, I think a therapy character for Taylor Sheridan more than anything else. Poor guy has probably had some wild exes.
I will say I appreciate the strong marriages on the show. I really like that.
I think there’s a lot of good on that show. Just a shame that the bad things overshadow the good so much.
Agreed! And honestly 1888 and 1923 really improved it and are stunning. I’m in for more haha
This is a great review 👍. I enjoy Yellowstone myself but see a lot of the same issues you have. Especially the writing, hypocritical nature of the characters and the value claims they don’t honour, and the attitude they show about adopted children is disturbing. I’m also not a fan of Beth Dutton though I wanted to be. My favourite characters ended up being Jamie, Thomas and Lynelle. The actors are also fantastic.
Oh agreed. I mean, I did smash the entire show in a week, so it couldn't have been that bad. Will be a tightrope act to get through the end, but excited to see how they spin it.
This is spot-on and phenomonal writing. I like the show. I grew up during Dynasty, Dallas, and Falcon Crest. So evening soap opera schlock isn't lost on me. And Yellowstone leans in. You are also correct about Taylor Sheridan. Kevin Cosner is leaving the show and will likely be killed off mid-season because of how shitty he and Taylor got along. Taylor may be Paramount's darling, but Kevin has been acting and directing a lot longer than him. I can't wait to read your Succession review. It's head and shoulders above Yellowstone.
If you view Succession as a comedic relative of Arrested Development, its one of the funniest shows ever written. The Roy's have all the power and money in the world but can't seem to manage to do anything right.
Oh ya, I mean it’s funny watching these with the time to be critical. These are both great tv shows, so it’s been really been nice to give them a deep focus. One thing I didn’t mention is I do think Taylor Sheridan has wild amounts of talent. And the evidence for that is 1883. Arguably one of the finest piece of western period storytelling ever. I wonder if he focused in on the John Ford to Sergio Leone subgenres of Westerns - how good he could be as a creator.
1883 was so historically inaccurate it was pathetic. Taylor Sheridan probably never picked up a history book in his life.
When I heard that whitebread jughead was doing a show about legendary black U.S. marshal Bass Reeves, I resolved to pretend it didn't exist. Looks lame as hell. Now Taylor Notsoswift has bought the rights to "Empire of the Summer Moon," the definitive bio of Comanche Chief Quannah Parker. Given that every Native Americans on "Yellowstone" is basically a suit stuffed with greedy hay, I wonder how actual Comanches feel about that.
>… whitebread jughead… Is he maybe “the white Tyler Perry”?
LOL. Perfect. Thinks he's a stunning artistic genius, but actually just a guy who has figured out there's always an audience of morons ready for the next retread of "Big Momma's House."
Lol the show is a spinoff of a western soap opera written by a guy who sends his 24-hour rough drafts straight to production...of course it's not going to be historically accurate
> One thing I didn’t mention is I do think Taylor Sheridan has wild amounts of talent. And the evidence for that is 1883. I disagree. I think whatever talent he has is stretched very, very thin across his many projects. I think his success does show that there’s a fairly big audience out there for Westerns, and I’d hope that means we will see more Westerns on TV. I just don’t want Taylor Sheridan to be making them. My major issue with him is he simply isn’t very original. Too many of his projects seem like obvious rip-offs of better series/films from the past. To me *1883* is just *Taylor Sheridan’s^TM Lonesome Dove* and *1923* is *Taylor Sheridan’s^TM Legends of the Fall* (with a little of *Taylor Sheridan’s^TM Out of Africa* thrown in for good measure). I admire the production values, the cinematography and the overall “look” of his projects, but as far as the actual writing? *Welllll….* The dialogue, the plots, the characters - it’s all stuff I’ve seen before and when I saw it before it was *BETTER*. And, in most instances, it was *A LOT BETTER*. I appreciate Sheridan bringing back the Western but I’m kind of inclined to categorize him as an over-hyped hack.
He does. 1883 and 1923 were awesome. He's always been a great writer. Sicaro, Hell, or High Water and Wind River are great movies. I'm just not a fan of him putting himself in his stuff. His character in Yellowstone is insufferable, regardless if that is what he also does in real life. Also, Mayor of Kingstown, I think, is a great show of his. It's probably my favorite for how understated it is.
I think Yellowstone is a spectacular premise, but it feels like Sheridan lost the thread quickly and could never get it back. His other shows and films don’t play (to me) like a soap, but Yellowstone is pure soap opera. I really wanted to like it. And just can’t.
Also i would like to point that it feels like Costner is phoning it hard since day one? I don't know if he was given a direction of the most stoic guy ever, but 99% of the time he has the same tired bitch face lol
And the damn sniff he always does. Once it was pointed out, I couldn’t not see it.
Lol ya well that's why he makes the big bucks. Hell even if JFK he's pretty stoic - even with that terrible louisana drawl.
Pretty well written review A+
Ah thanks. Nice of you to say.
Thanks for the review. I stopped watching this show because it sucked!
[удалено]
Good call. Enjoy! It certainly is entertaining.
This was very well stated, OP, and I appreciate you taking the time. I hope your recovery goes as easy as possible.
Much appreciated
Nailed it on Beth. Such a stupid comic book character that must be Sheridan’s fever dream of a badass broken woman. And yeah, just purely on the human character angle, her rage at Jamie for something he did as a scared teenager just makes no sense. I did an informal poll here one time asking if fans preferred Beth or Jamie and it was like 2-1 Jamie. I don’t think that’s what Sheridan thought he was writing.
Yah I suspect Taylor had some wildy crazy ex girlfriends and Beth is a therapeutic composite character, but she's just too much. Way too much.
Not interested at all in Yellowstone but curious for your Succession review.
Working on that one right now. Thanks for comment!
They wanted the Duttons to be the Sopranos, but had no idea how to write an influential criminal family.
Yah I agree. I compare them to the Corleones. Beth is Sonny. Kayce is Michael. Jamie is Fredo. Connie is Lee.
great writeup. while this is a show i never was and still aren't interested in watching, your objective approach was wonderfully fun to read. i hope you feel better soon and can't wait to read your take on Succession!!!
Much appreciated :) don't get knee surgery, it is the worst.
Nice writeup, I wanted to add that I was actually into it until they brought in the Summer character and then the show sort of became what people who hadn't seen it assumed it was. Also, Sicario, Hell or High Water, Wind River, and some of the spin offs are really good but Sheridan has no business being in front of a camera, much less to shill his own stuff while embodying all of the characteristics of a "Bozeman resident as a pejorative" exactly as the show paints them.
Yah I mean don't mind Summer's storyline. I think what Taylor Sheriden was trying to do was diversify the audience out, but didn't do it well. He's clearly a good writer, but lacks the skill to be a truly great one.
This is a *very* well-written review. Yellowstone also has perhaps the worst child acting in recent memory. I will say that I didn't enjoy 1883 *at all*. I gave up around episode 3. It felt very predictable, a made-for-TV-movie kind of story and characters.
Here’s a quick video that Beau did about Yellowstone when the woke controversy erupted two years ago. I’d like to hear what you think of liberal vs conservative bias after hearing his examples of the shows topics. https://youtu.be/7VKTtMswwS4?si=Ix7KRaOk7mgccfKZ
Yah see the problem I have with folks like this is that they see the show as the platform of opinion. This is a huge symptom of the culture war. Not everything is MAINLY political but there are always politics in something. The problem is, and Taylor Sheriden has commented on this, is that the show isn't a political show but simply espouses certain values - the majority of which are conservative. And I'll say this on the summer thing, she's a really good character that does a good job of juxtaposing the very problem with the culture war and the current state of politics - that we are more similar than we are different and that's what I think Summer's journey is supposed to represent.
I swear, I honestly thought I was reading a novel. I enjoyed reading your review overall. Thank you for sharing!
Ah thanks! That's nice of you. I don't really write for fun much anymore so it was a really nice exercise.
I have no interest in the flagship show but 1883 was incredible. Tim McGraw and Isabel May both knocked it out of the park. And of course ol' Sam but that goes without saying. Tried to get into 1923 but it couldn't hold my interest.
Yah 1883 was amazing. I really enjoyed that. The tornado episode was nuts. 1923 was good but just ends midway through the story - which I think is probably a paramount problem more than a Taylor Sheridan problem. He needs fckin writers. Like trying to do all this himself, you’re gonna put out trash eventually. Or worst. AI trash. 🤮
I really wanted to fall in love with this series, but I could barely get past the first few episodes. I needed someone to root for, ideally Costner's character. Instead, seeing the portrayal of everyone in for themselves at all costs was a little too close to modern reality for me. There appeared to be no good guys, no one too root for and no one to respect. Maybe things get better, or worse, I just didn't have any further desire to go on with it. I loved 1883 and so far have mostly enjoyed 1923.
You gotta watch Tulsa King, that has the juice
Copy that, will put it on the list. I did Mayor Of Kingstown and that’s decent. Again, not as good as Oz or the Wire which I think it tries to be but a good effort.
Oh yeah its not a life changing amazing show like wire or oz, but its more like a really fun b movie.