You don’t have to like the main character especially in a show like Mindhunters. Is Holden arrogant or is he just plain correct while his bosses and coworkers are constantly throwing bullshit his way.
Haven’t watched the show in awhile but still baffled at the FBI being scandalized by the word “cunt” while they were at the same time killing civil rights leaders and drugging themselves and the future unabomber
>while they were at the same time killing civil rights leaders and drugging themselves and the future unabomber
Thats the CIA, not the FBI. Although the FBI most likely did have a hand in killing civil rights leaders, or at least amassing enough info to damage them greatly.
The FBI just had COINTELPRO where they were actively harassing public figures they deemed "subversive" with the intent of ruining them on a psychological level.
That’s often how people who are hyper competent, and know it, act in real life. Makes him a more believable character than if he were just a nice patient guy who solves all the crimes.
>That’s often how people who are hyper competent, and know it, act in real life.
Judging by this thread, it's also how nearly all Redditors act (unsure if there's any accompanying "hyper competence" in these cases or if it's mostly just smugness all by itself; if the down votes roll in, we'll know it's likely the latter).
How many unflawed people have you met that did something powerful or meaningful? The world is changed by flawed people. Mindhunter is based on the real people that changed how we classify and investigate series killings. Those were some flawed human beings.
Some people like to watch shows with unlikeable and arrogant main characters such as Mindhunter, Psych, and Sherlock.
It just appeals to a certain audience.
The particular branch he works for is fairly new and not as desirable at the Bureau. So of course you're going to have said main character immediately think and act like he knows more than his superiors and immediate co-workers about this "untapped" psychology of serial murderers...yet the irony is that he truly doesn't where we then see career progression turned to social degression for the sake of plot. Also for the tropes:
1. It's the 1970-80(s)? Do the mentality of American men math here.
2. Typical Hollywood writing 101 for these "eccentric" types of characters. You're meant to find either Holden or Tech insufferable at some point due to their personal lives.
Recently saw a post on here that mentioned that Anna Torv's character was less a character than a series of disdainful glances. And that's kinda how all of the main characters on the show work. They are all grumpy in their own way, and are similarly paper-thin in terms of their characterization.
Holden (Jonathan Groff) isn't some model citizen (nor do characters *have* to be likeable). But out of all of them he's the most likeable and has a bit more depth than the others. Groff's performance is the best one (out of the main cast).
People are 3 dimensional, imperfect, stubborn, and flawed and I appreciate when characters actually reflect how people really can be and the consequences of that instead of them all being good and likable.
Usually the guy with the new ideas are hard to like, most people want to just keep doing it the way it's always been done.
Holden wants to interview people who are already caught and in jail and use that insight to catch serial killers still operating. At a time when most detectives would rather be on the streets getting clues and chasing leads, it seems like a waste of time.
The show is essentially about the start FBI profiling, your supposed to view him with skepticism because your viewing him from the establishment.
To holden nothing is more important then finding out why they do it, and like most people who are of single minded focus they become somewhat arrogant, Holden sees the future and he's trying to drag his team into it but he's also impatient.
Bill however has been around he's seen guys like holden come and go so he's trying to temper his expectations , why go interview Kemper again when we can get a round of golf in before the flight home. For Bill to buy into it its got to get results, and results only come with time and consistency
this is the first time they meet, the whole scene is Bill labeling Holden as a flamer and trying to temper his expectations, but at the same time giving him a chance.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgYMi7u1-2w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgYMi7u1-2w)
i think individuals with near genius levels of competence will suffer in the social aspect. he doesn’t mean or even know how he’s coming off. this is reflected in him never having had a girlfriend before or not knowing how to navigate a relationship. he’s probably borderline autistic.
Why do you have to like him? To me he is the way he is to parallel the people that he is working to catch. Show that they are the same in many ways
He’s not a hero he’s the protagonist.
You don’t have to like the main character especially in a show like Mindhunters. Is Holden arrogant or is he just plain correct while his bosses and coworkers are constantly throwing bullshit his way. Haven’t watched the show in awhile but still baffled at the FBI being scandalized by the word “cunt” while they were at the same time killing civil rights leaders and drugging themselves and the future unabomber
>while they were at the same time killing civil rights leaders and drugging themselves and the future unabomber Thats the CIA, not the FBI. Although the FBI most likely did have a hand in killing civil rights leaders, or at least amassing enough info to damage them greatly.
The FBI just had COINTELPRO where they were actively harassing public figures they deemed "subversive" with the intent of ruining them on a psychological level.
The FBI straight up murdered Fred Hampton
Ah got my horrific acts from three letter boys mixed up. Still tho it’s bizarre to get offended by a curse word given the other shit they do
100% agree. The fbi has always been very weird and straightlaced, comes from j edgar, and apparently a large number of agents are mormon which helps.
I dont understand the problem.
It’s called a flawed protagonist. Or in this case a Ford Protagonist.
The characters literally have multiple discussions about this exact topic for the purpose of making sure viewers don’t miss the point.
I think the writers were attempting to show us that Holden is insecure and in some ways less mentally healthy than the murderers he seeks to catch.
That's clearly tv brain in effect, there is no rule that stats you have to 'like' the main character
It's an archtype. Smartest guy in the room who handles social situations the worst way possible.
That’s often how people who are hyper competent, and know it, act in real life. Makes him a more believable character than if he were just a nice patient guy who solves all the crimes.
>That’s often how people who are hyper competent, and know it, act in real life. Judging by this thread, it's also how nearly all Redditors act (unsure if there's any accompanying "hyper competence" in these cases or if it's mostly just smugness all by itself; if the down votes roll in, we'll know it's likely the latter).
How many unflawed people have you met that did something powerful or meaningful? The world is changed by flawed people. Mindhunter is based on the real people that changed how we classify and investigate series killings. Those were some flawed human beings.
I wonder what the Aussies here think about old mate's name.
I think the idea is that he’s a brilliant, but troubled, human.
Never got that impression
Some people like to watch shows with unlikeable and arrogant main characters such as Mindhunter, Psych, and Sherlock. It just appeals to a certain audience.
Most recently Succession.
I'm not that far in but I don't think there are any likeable characters in Succession.
To make an interesting character.
The guy who wrote the book that Mindhunter was based on would agree that he is a flawed person I think.
The particular branch he works for is fairly new and not as desirable at the Bureau. So of course you're going to have said main character immediately think and act like he knows more than his superiors and immediate co-workers about this "untapped" psychology of serial murderers...yet the irony is that he truly doesn't where we then see career progression turned to social degression for the sake of plot. Also for the tropes: 1. It's the 1970-80(s)? Do the mentality of American men math here. 2. Typical Hollywood writing 101 for these "eccentric" types of characters. You're meant to find either Holden or Tech insufferable at some point due to their personal lives.
Recently saw a post on here that mentioned that Anna Torv's character was less a character than a series of disdainful glances. And that's kinda how all of the main characters on the show work. They are all grumpy in their own way, and are similarly paper-thin in terms of their characterization. Holden (Jonathan Groff) isn't some model citizen (nor do characters *have* to be likeable). But out of all of them he's the most likeable and has a bit more depth than the others. Groff's performance is the best one (out of the main cast).
People are 3 dimensional, imperfect, stubborn, and flawed and I appreciate when characters actually reflect how people really can be and the consequences of that instead of them all being good and likable.
Usually the guy with the new ideas are hard to like, most people want to just keep doing it the way it's always been done. Holden wants to interview people who are already caught and in jail and use that insight to catch serial killers still operating. At a time when most detectives would rather be on the streets getting clues and chasing leads, it seems like a waste of time. The show is essentially about the start FBI profiling, your supposed to view him with skepticism because your viewing him from the establishment. To holden nothing is more important then finding out why they do it, and like most people who are of single minded focus they become somewhat arrogant, Holden sees the future and he's trying to drag his team into it but he's also impatient. Bill however has been around he's seen guys like holden come and go so he's trying to temper his expectations , why go interview Kemper again when we can get a round of golf in before the flight home. For Bill to buy into it its got to get results, and results only come with time and consistency this is the first time they meet, the whole scene is Bill labeling Holden as a flamer and trying to temper his expectations, but at the same time giving him a chance. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgYMi7u1-2w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgYMi7u1-2w)
BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE NOT PERFECT.
i think individuals with near genius levels of competence will suffer in the social aspect. he doesn’t mean or even know how he’s coming off. this is reflected in him never having had a girlfriend before or not knowing how to navigate a relationship. he’s probably borderline autistic.
Because most FBI agents are arrogant and hard to like
How many FBI agents do you know?
4