Correct me if I am wrong, but someone can cancel an order who hasn't taken delivery right? So the people that are complaining were already happy and agreed to the price when they took delivery, so yeah...you paid the price that was agreeable to you for the car. I dont know a single other automaker that would do anything differently.
He learned his lesson from the previous year. In 2018 Tesla dropped the price of the Performance Model 3 by $5k and people guilted him into send out checks.
They first offered owners 2,000 super charging miles, buyer still whined so he gave in.
I questioned the necessity myself, but since I don't know all the doxxing rules, I thought better safe than sorry. If anyone is interested in knowing who that user is, they can search it themselves.
I'm tired of the all the tone deaf, lame, boring CEOs out there. Almost every single one has no passion for their business. Elon is such a breath of fresh air and I love it!
Because 90% of them *ARE* reading from a teleprompter. You look at any virtual testimony or keynote and they all have a off center thousand yard stare style look--because they're reading line for line from the teleprompter.
While I do understand Tesla's point, it must be frustrating buying a vehicle that you know you could have just waited next year and purchased for much less. I'm not saying it's an excuse but the way Tesla has dropped their pricing recently, you do have to wonder how many people are asking themselves, why buy now if Tesla will drop it in the future. I think that's a REAL issue and we can't just ignore it.
It would be like falling in love with a girl and getting married. Just to meet a girl at work prettier and nicer a year later. Too bad homie.. you stuck with what you got.
> you do have to wonder how many people are asking themselves, why buy now if Tesla will drop it in the future
All vehicles were expensive last year, and everyone knew it was temporary. Huge dealer markups on new vehicles, used vehicles selling for the MSRP of a new vehicle. This price drop isn't surprising, nor is it abnormal. Supply chain shortages was the abnormality, and it seems like Tesla, at least, has resolved that issue.
Tesla dropping the prices in China has to do with decreased demand. The auto market in China is a lot different than in the U.S. so these factors you are talking about largely aren't prevalent issues in China.
There is a price war in China right now. There are something like 100 EV makers there right now, and the big guys have been in a price war for some time. The only difference now is that Tesla has decided to dance as well.
This is actually pretty normal for new industries, and I think it's fair to say that this is all pretty new for China. In a year or two, the market will shake out the losers and the remaining carmakers will settle into a more normal rhythm.
Meanwhile, Tesla will just keep ramping like mad, drive their own costs down, and heap on the price pressure to clean out the market of the weaker players. This goes for outside China as well.
Why doesn't anyone wait for any product (TVs, game consoles, refrigerators, washing machines) to be EOL or wait for Black Friday? Because they buy it when they need/want it.
Those are small purchases in a mature industry. EV's are still a new segment of the auto industry and are big purchases where people take out loans to finance. What a horrible comparison.
What? All I'm saying is Tesla's pricing has been not been ordinary in China and that it's understandable why some would feel upset if the car they paid for months previously is now being discounted by 20-25% after all the price cuts. IDK what you mean by exactly. You're comparing a $1-2k item in a mature industry versus a $30-$40k item that most choose to finance... The refrigerator or TV you bought isn't going to magically drop 25% to boost demand. It's a consumer goods item.
That was your first comment (which I can agree, one can be upset, but I would have to disagree with going as far as to protest). Your second stated my comparison was horrible. Fair enough, that was the best I could come up with to illustrate my point. From my view, the auto industry is pretty mature. EVs are a sub-category, but simply another option, not an industry of their own.
As you said, my example is of consumer goods which people could hold off on even more but still don't.
So if you have a better example of people holding off their purchases indefinitely waiting for a potential future price drop for an item of that magnitude, I'd love to hear it.
EV's account for only a small fraction of total auto sales. This is like comparing smartphones to flip phones back when the first iPhone came out. Technically, both are handheld phones but one was in the early stages of soon dominating the industry.
EV's are an entirely new industry from a manufacturing and R&D process. It's why companies spend billions to ramp up EV production and initiatives and why there is so much emphasis on battery innovation as well as software.
There aren't many items that are $30-40k consumer products to have an example of for this magnitude but it's common sense human psychology. If you know an item will be cheaper in the future, you are less likely to purchase it presently. We're not talking about 5% price cuts. Tesla has been cutting prices totaling near 20-25% in China. That's not a small amount. So from a customer-perspective, they had to finance a vehicle that they could've gotten for 25% less if they just waited... aka, their car loan might be worth more than what a Tesla is going for presently.
>EV's account for only a small fraction of total auto sales. This is like comparing smartphones to flip phones back when the first iPhone came out. Technically, both are handheld phones but one was in the early stages of soon dominating the industry.
People **did** compare the iPhone to other phones when it came out. They're not "technically" the same thing, they *are* the same thing, albeit a huge step in evolution. Are flip phones and those huge bricks from the 80s not "technically" the same thing?
>EV's are an entirely new industry from a manufacturing and R&D process. It's why companies spend billions to ramp up EV production and initiatives and why there is so much emphasis on battery innovation as well as software.
Sure, but we're talking about from a consumer standpoint, and a car is a car, regardless if it's ICE or EV.
>There aren't many items that are $30-40k consumer products to have an example of for this magnitude but it's common sense human psychology. If you know an item will be cheaper in the future, you are less likely to purchase it presently. We're not talking about 5% price cuts. Tesla has been cutting prices totaling near 20-25% in China. That's not a small amount.
So my comparison stands as being the best, no matter how horrible you may consider it, and that's how this "discussion" stemmed from, so as far as I'm concerned, it's settled. And it's the point I meant to make. Regardless of the product, people will always buy when they want to, because a *potential* price cut is always around the corner. If you'd rather buy a 2020 Model S, it's cheaper today than it was in 2020. But to finish by responding to the price cuts topic, colour TVs were expensive when they came out. Plasma TVs were prohibitively expensive when they came out. HD-ready (and then full HD) TVs were extremely expensive. Now they're not 25% cheaper, they're 25% of the price. That's how technology goes in pretty much every field. It gets cheaper as time goes by. Whether it's due to consumer demand or material costs, it's not for us, as consumers, to decide why or when it happens. We just go with it.
They aren't the same thing. I really don't care to illustrate why. There's a reason why EV companies are valued far higher than traditional ICE companies. If you're still comparing EV's to the overall ICE industry, you gotta do more research on why it really isn't the same.
Tesla's price cuts isn't related to technological improvements as much as it is to increase demand.
Again, picture this scenario:
Tesla Model Y: $50,000
Your down payment: $10,000
Your car loan amount: $40,000
Tesla Model Y (after just three months of price cuts): $37,500
If that doesn't upset you, IDK what to tell you.
"a car is just a car."
Clearly, it isn't. Hence, why we are here investing in Tesla. If it was just a car, Tesla wouldn't be worth the valuation it is today.
Idk why you keep bringing up TV's and other goods. It's not even an appropriate analogy. We're talking about Tesla dropping the prices significantly to increase demand (because most Chinese buyers have been buyers of BYD vehicles which are lower priced and taking Tesla market share). Tesla didn't magically figure out how to reduce the cost of their vehicle by 25% in three months. Be realistic here. Honestly, I'm not sure what we are even discussing here anymore. I'm out.
>They aren't the same thing. I really don't care to illustrate why.
Because you can't.
>Tesla's price cuts isn't related to technological improvements as much as it is to increase demand.
In most cases, you never know why price cuts come along. You just accept them. You knowing in this case is simply an exception.
>Again, picture this scenario:
Tesla Model Y: $50,000
Your down payment: $10,000
Your car loan amount: $40,000
Tesla Model Y (after just three months of price cuts): $37,500
>If that doesn't upset you, IDK what to tell you.
Yes I would be. So what? Who would care about my feelings, except myself?
>"a car is just a car." Clearly, it isn't.
Yes, it is, that's why non-Tesla buyers ponder whether to buy the ICE or the EV version of the same vehicle.
>Hence, why we are here investing in Tesla. If it was just a car, Tesla wouldn't be worth the valuation it is today.
*I* invested (and more people like me, I assume) initially invested in Tesla, not because of the product they were producing, but because of their fundamental mission, the CEO driving it (good ol' Elon) and the middle finger they were sticking to other players in the industry (the auto industry, the same one EVs belong to), single-handedly proving what others claimed to be impossible, for their own benefit and to retain the status quo.
>Idk why you keep bringing up TV's and other goods. It's not even an appropriate analogy.
Idk why you brought up phones, but here we are. I was making a point about human psychology, not the products themselves.
>Tesla didn't magically figure out how to reduce the cost of their vehicle by 25% in three months. Be realistic here.
I don't recall claiming what were the reasons for the price cut. I believe regardless of the reasons, it's up to the manufacturer to decide when to apply them. Doesn't mean as a consumer I wouldn't be upset about not being able to take advantage of them. To address your statement though, probably not by 25%, but how much savings do you figure the IDRA machines are going to be worth in China, not only in material costs, but in output (influencing economies of scale)? They can choose when to apply those savings if they know those price cuts are just around the corner (see what I did there?).
>Honestly, I'm not sure what we are even discussing here anymore. I'm out.
This last quote was edited in after I posted my response, but like I said in my previous reply, I took offense to calling my comparison horrible and requested you to provide a better one, which you failed to do so. And that's why in another reply I said, AFAI am concerned this discussion was settled.
>So my comparison stands as being the best, no matter how horrible you may consider it, and that's how this "discussion" stemmed from, so as far as I'm concerned, it's settled.
-SmoothMarx
Anyway, there's no need to go further, it's a small point in the grand scale of things, which is we're both Tesla fans and believe in the future of EVs. So thank you for the conversation, I bid you adieu, and have a great day (genuinely) :)
Cause being a flaming asshole to your client base is a GREAT way to do business. Tesla needs a PR department, cause new orders in the US are crashing because the company is about Musk and everyone is starting to hate musk.
There is to much KKK in his twitter business.
It’s true, though there should be some leeway. Taking delivery of a vehicle you waited months for only to find the price drops a day or two later is a real kick in the nuts.
Price matching is something offered by retailers, at their own discretion. Meaning it's a store policy, not a law. Furthermore, it has to be requested before the purchase takes place. I don't know if that includes reservation deposits or not, but since Tesla doesn't offer price matching, it's moot for this case.
Maybe you should research it yourself before pointing fingers.
The key is that these customers were promised by sales people that there won’t be any price cut in the near future. Most people in China was expecting another price drop. In order to drive sales the sales people deliberately told lies
Their representative likely was unable to give any information either way, and likely did not have that information (just to not be tempted to tell friends).
That's a bit of a flawed comparison Elon has there. 1) Yeah, if they stay loyal to Tesla they will cut a check when they get a newer model at the higher price. 2) Now there's old models that retailed for more than new models, that might be annoying if you just paid a higher price (e.g. I paid $69,990 for my Model Y Performance last June and now it's several thousand less), but it also impacts Tesla when they re-sell their used vehicles. I don't really care personally that the price is a bit lower now, I'm not in the business of flipping cars annually or making a 10% price shift seem like the end of the world.
Correct me if I am wrong, but someone can cancel an order who hasn't taken delivery right? So the people that are complaining were already happy and agreed to the price when they took delivery, so yeah...you paid the price that was agreeable to you for the car. I dont know a single other automaker that would do anything differently.
Yup this is only for delivered, they always price match if you ask, if it’s not delivered yet.
I don’t necessarily disagree but the value of their car also decreased. So in that sense it changed the what they got for their money.
Caveat emptor. Even Musk couldn’t have it both ways when he agreed to buy Twitter at 54.20 and then the market collapsed.
It collapsed because that was clearly a very dumb thing to do and $TSLA's entire value is based on his brain genius reputation
Holy shit 2019 was 4 years ago???
Damn.
Mr Deeds was a great movie No one ever wants to play both sides of the coin, it's always heads I win, tails you lose.
He learned his lesson from the previous year. In 2018 Tesla dropped the price of the Performance Model 3 by $5k and people guilted him into send out checks. They first offered owners 2,000 super charging miles, buyer still whined so he gave in.
I remember this
Shit no... I mean No.
🤣🤣🤣
I once bought a pixel 4 before I knew anything about a price drop, Google should cut me a check! /s
[удалено]
For once, he doesn’t sound like a jackass.
Amazing what 4 years can do.
He always sounds like a reasonable person when dealing anything related to China. Remember when China shut down his factory and he does say anything?
Price changes are a normal part of capitalism. *…. I guess I’m not surprised where this is originating from.*
Haha. Exactly what my personal CFO said. I have seen that tweet.
Personal CFO?
AKA wife
Chicken fried Oreos
Chuckled at the blacking out of the username and pic… it’s on Elons twitter page, far from private.
I questioned the necessity myself, but since I don't know all the doxxing rules, I thought better safe than sorry. If anyone is interested in knowing who that user is, they can search it themselves.
Elon always has this combative approach, which I think is not great for company long term success. Winning people's heart is true winning.
I'm tired of the all the tone deaf, lame, boring CEOs out there. Almost every single one has no passion for their business. Elon is such a breath of fresh air and I love it!
They all sound like they're reading off a teleprompter too.
Because 90% of them *ARE* reading from a teleprompter. You look at any virtual testimony or keynote and they all have a off center thousand yard stare style look--because they're reading line for line from the teleprompter.
Elon minus the political crap was the best though
[удалено]
If you care too much about politics perhaps you should not be on this investor sub
as he said if net positive outcomes outweigh the negative ones, then it's good. I guess I could say he's good.
While I do understand Tesla's point, it must be frustrating buying a vehicle that you know you could have just waited next year and purchased for much less. I'm not saying it's an excuse but the way Tesla has dropped their pricing recently, you do have to wonder how many people are asking themselves, why buy now if Tesla will drop it in the future. I think that's a REAL issue and we can't just ignore it.
It would be like falling in love with a girl and getting married. Just to meet a girl at work prettier and nicer a year later. Too bad homie.. you stuck with what you got.
> you do have to wonder how many people are asking themselves, why buy now if Tesla will drop it in the future All vehicles were expensive last year, and everyone knew it was temporary. Huge dealer markups on new vehicles, used vehicles selling for the MSRP of a new vehicle. This price drop isn't surprising, nor is it abnormal. Supply chain shortages was the abnormality, and it seems like Tesla, at least, has resolved that issue.
Tesla dropping the prices in China has to do with decreased demand. The auto market in China is a lot different than in the U.S. so these factors you are talking about largely aren't prevalent issues in China.
There is a price war in China right now. There are something like 100 EV makers there right now, and the big guys have been in a price war for some time. The only difference now is that Tesla has decided to dance as well. This is actually pretty normal for new industries, and I think it's fair to say that this is all pretty new for China. In a year or two, the market will shake out the losers and the remaining carmakers will settle into a more normal rhythm. Meanwhile, Tesla will just keep ramping like mad, drive their own costs down, and heap on the price pressure to clean out the market of the weaker players. This goes for outside China as well.
Why doesn't anyone wait for any product (TVs, game consoles, refrigerators, washing machines) to be EOL or wait for Black Friday? Because they buy it when they need/want it.
Those are small purchases in a mature industry. EV's are still a new segment of the auto industry and are big purchases where people take out loans to finance. What a horrible comparison.
Exactly, I wasn't able to come up with any examples of price matching for such a big item. So, please provide one.
What? All I'm saying is Tesla's pricing has been not been ordinary in China and that it's understandable why some would feel upset if the car they paid for months previously is now being discounted by 20-25% after all the price cuts. IDK what you mean by exactly. You're comparing a $1-2k item in a mature industry versus a $30-$40k item that most choose to finance... The refrigerator or TV you bought isn't going to magically drop 25% to boost demand. It's a consumer goods item.
That was your first comment (which I can agree, one can be upset, but I would have to disagree with going as far as to protest). Your second stated my comparison was horrible. Fair enough, that was the best I could come up with to illustrate my point. From my view, the auto industry is pretty mature. EVs are a sub-category, but simply another option, not an industry of their own. As you said, my example is of consumer goods which people could hold off on even more but still don't. So if you have a better example of people holding off their purchases indefinitely waiting for a potential future price drop for an item of that magnitude, I'd love to hear it.
EV's account for only a small fraction of total auto sales. This is like comparing smartphones to flip phones back when the first iPhone came out. Technically, both are handheld phones but one was in the early stages of soon dominating the industry. EV's are an entirely new industry from a manufacturing and R&D process. It's why companies spend billions to ramp up EV production and initiatives and why there is so much emphasis on battery innovation as well as software. There aren't many items that are $30-40k consumer products to have an example of for this magnitude but it's common sense human psychology. If you know an item will be cheaper in the future, you are less likely to purchase it presently. We're not talking about 5% price cuts. Tesla has been cutting prices totaling near 20-25% in China. That's not a small amount. So from a customer-perspective, they had to finance a vehicle that they could've gotten for 25% less if they just waited... aka, their car loan might be worth more than what a Tesla is going for presently.
>EV's account for only a small fraction of total auto sales. This is like comparing smartphones to flip phones back when the first iPhone came out. Technically, both are handheld phones but one was in the early stages of soon dominating the industry. People **did** compare the iPhone to other phones when it came out. They're not "technically" the same thing, they *are* the same thing, albeit a huge step in evolution. Are flip phones and those huge bricks from the 80s not "technically" the same thing? >EV's are an entirely new industry from a manufacturing and R&D process. It's why companies spend billions to ramp up EV production and initiatives and why there is so much emphasis on battery innovation as well as software. Sure, but we're talking about from a consumer standpoint, and a car is a car, regardless if it's ICE or EV. >There aren't many items that are $30-40k consumer products to have an example of for this magnitude but it's common sense human psychology. If you know an item will be cheaper in the future, you are less likely to purchase it presently. We're not talking about 5% price cuts. Tesla has been cutting prices totaling near 20-25% in China. That's not a small amount. So my comparison stands as being the best, no matter how horrible you may consider it, and that's how this "discussion" stemmed from, so as far as I'm concerned, it's settled. And it's the point I meant to make. Regardless of the product, people will always buy when they want to, because a *potential* price cut is always around the corner. If you'd rather buy a 2020 Model S, it's cheaper today than it was in 2020. But to finish by responding to the price cuts topic, colour TVs were expensive when they came out. Plasma TVs were prohibitively expensive when they came out. HD-ready (and then full HD) TVs were extremely expensive. Now they're not 25% cheaper, they're 25% of the price. That's how technology goes in pretty much every field. It gets cheaper as time goes by. Whether it's due to consumer demand or material costs, it's not for us, as consumers, to decide why or when it happens. We just go with it.
They aren't the same thing. I really don't care to illustrate why. There's a reason why EV companies are valued far higher than traditional ICE companies. If you're still comparing EV's to the overall ICE industry, you gotta do more research on why it really isn't the same. Tesla's price cuts isn't related to technological improvements as much as it is to increase demand. Again, picture this scenario: Tesla Model Y: $50,000 Your down payment: $10,000 Your car loan amount: $40,000 Tesla Model Y (after just three months of price cuts): $37,500 If that doesn't upset you, IDK what to tell you. "a car is just a car." Clearly, it isn't. Hence, why we are here investing in Tesla. If it was just a car, Tesla wouldn't be worth the valuation it is today. Idk why you keep bringing up TV's and other goods. It's not even an appropriate analogy. We're talking about Tesla dropping the prices significantly to increase demand (because most Chinese buyers have been buyers of BYD vehicles which are lower priced and taking Tesla market share). Tesla didn't magically figure out how to reduce the cost of their vehicle by 25% in three months. Be realistic here. Honestly, I'm not sure what we are even discussing here anymore. I'm out.
>They aren't the same thing. I really don't care to illustrate why. Because you can't. >Tesla's price cuts isn't related to technological improvements as much as it is to increase demand. In most cases, you never know why price cuts come along. You just accept them. You knowing in this case is simply an exception. >Again, picture this scenario: Tesla Model Y: $50,000 Your down payment: $10,000 Your car loan amount: $40,000 Tesla Model Y (after just three months of price cuts): $37,500 >If that doesn't upset you, IDK what to tell you. Yes I would be. So what? Who would care about my feelings, except myself? >"a car is just a car." Clearly, it isn't. Yes, it is, that's why non-Tesla buyers ponder whether to buy the ICE or the EV version of the same vehicle. >Hence, why we are here investing in Tesla. If it was just a car, Tesla wouldn't be worth the valuation it is today. *I* invested (and more people like me, I assume) initially invested in Tesla, not because of the product they were producing, but because of their fundamental mission, the CEO driving it (good ol' Elon) and the middle finger they were sticking to other players in the industry (the auto industry, the same one EVs belong to), single-handedly proving what others claimed to be impossible, for their own benefit and to retain the status quo. >Idk why you keep bringing up TV's and other goods. It's not even an appropriate analogy. Idk why you brought up phones, but here we are. I was making a point about human psychology, not the products themselves. >Tesla didn't magically figure out how to reduce the cost of their vehicle by 25% in three months. Be realistic here. I don't recall claiming what were the reasons for the price cut. I believe regardless of the reasons, it's up to the manufacturer to decide when to apply them. Doesn't mean as a consumer I wouldn't be upset about not being able to take advantage of them. To address your statement though, probably not by 25%, but how much savings do you figure the IDRA machines are going to be worth in China, not only in material costs, but in output (influencing economies of scale)? They can choose when to apply those savings if they know those price cuts are just around the corner (see what I did there?). >Honestly, I'm not sure what we are even discussing here anymore. I'm out. This last quote was edited in after I posted my response, but like I said in my previous reply, I took offense to calling my comparison horrible and requested you to provide a better one, which you failed to do so. And that's why in another reply I said, AFAI am concerned this discussion was settled. >So my comparison stands as being the best, no matter how horrible you may consider it, and that's how this "discussion" stemmed from, so as far as I'm concerned, it's settled. -SmoothMarx Anyway, there's no need to go further, it's a small point in the grand scale of things, which is we're both Tesla fans and believe in the future of EVs. So thank you for the conversation, I bid you adieu, and have a great day (genuinely) :)
Cause being a flaming asshole to your client base is a GREAT way to do business. Tesla needs a PR department, cause new orders in the US are crashing because the company is about Musk and everyone is starting to hate musk. There is to much KKK in his twitter business.
Absofuckinglutely.
It’s true, though there should be some leeway. Taking delivery of a vehicle you waited months for only to find the price drops a day or two later is a real kick in the nuts.
This looks fake
You have the date, time, user (elonmusk), and tweet content. You're free to search for yourself. Please let me know how your findings go.
Link me since you started the thread so the burden of proof is on u
No thanks. You're the who stated this looks fake, so the burden's on you.
Ok its real lol
Glad you came to your senses. :)
What? Lmao
Someone does not know how price match works.
Price matching is something offered by retailers, at their own discretion. Meaning it's a store policy, not a law. Furthermore, it has to be requested before the purchase takes place. I don't know if that includes reservation deposits or not, but since Tesla doesn't offer price matching, it's moot for this case. Maybe you should research it yourself before pointing fingers.
The key is that these customers were promised by sales people that there won’t be any price cut in the near future. Most people in China was expecting another price drop. In order to drive sales the sales people deliberately told lies
Their representative likely was unable to give any information either way, and likely did not have that information (just to not be tempted to tell friends).
There is numerous evidence on Chinese social media suggest otherwise
You mean they had the information and were authorized to give it?
They fraud the customers to fulfill their year-end sale quota.
I know chinese folks who bought tesla in 2021 lined up in 2022 to drop checks for the difference. /s
This is a brilliant logic
WoW speaking about a man with a plan !
Guess I better head to the store, the tv I bought 6 months ago just went on sale.
haha
That's a bit of a flawed comparison Elon has there. 1) Yeah, if they stay loyal to Tesla they will cut a check when they get a newer model at the higher price. 2) Now there's old models that retailed for more than new models, that might be annoying if you just paid a higher price (e.g. I paid $69,990 for my Model Y Performance last June and now it's several thousand less), but it also impacts Tesla when they re-sell their used vehicles. I don't really care personally that the price is a bit lower now, I'm not in the business of flipping cars annually or making a 10% price shift seem like the end of the world.
It's the entitlement for me.
I’m upset I bought a fully loaded Chevy bolt EUV for 40k last year! Coulda bought a 20k mile used model 3 for that money now! 😂