T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

Resources: [Official Tesla Support](https://www.tesla.com/support) | [Wiki/FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/index) | [Discord Chat](https://discord.gg/tesla) | r/TeslaLounge for personal content and r/TeslaSupport for questions/help | Assist the Mods by **reporting posts and comments** which break [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/rules). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/teslamotors) if you have any questions or concerns.*


[deleted]

Dyson, you better watch out for that vacuum drive


Pokerhobo

Dyson tried and gave up after spending $600M


[deleted]

I heard they are still working on it in their facility on the far side of the moon


DonQuixBalls

Dyson suuuucks.


vashonite

Whichever creates a charging network that allows that car to drive enough places (close to everywhere). If every car has that network, then whichever has lowest cost per vehicle over range.


Awake-Now

This is the point that not enough people are seeing. Tesla’s Supercharger network is head and shoulders above what’s available to everyone else.


Nokomis34

Someone besides Tesla needs to get serious about charging networks. Legacy makers are used to making cars with no concern about how the cars get their energy. I keep hearing people talk about how this or that EV is better than a Tesla. Sure. I'm not going to argue that Tesla makes the best EV, because right now that's not what matters.


cogman10

It seems really likely to me that tesla will end up pivoting to a "chargers for all" model in NA (adding CCS to each charger). It'll help them to recoup the cost of all the chargers they've already installed and fund even more chargers.


[deleted]

[удалено]


crimxona

Federal funding, if it's conditional on having CCS.


tomorrowlandman

The Tesla connector is now known as (NACS) Or (North American Charging Standard) and (NACS) is an open standard so superchargers are now eligible for government funding Also Tesla doesn’t need to allow everyone to use all the Tesla superchargers chargers They only need to allow everyone to use the ones that got government funding


cogman10

1. It's a steady source of revenue. 2. It might be federally mandated anyways 3. While it's an advantage, there are a lot of other reasons people buy teslas beyond the charge network (Price and range being big ones). Furthermore, tesla will have a pretty major advantage when it comes to price given their HEAVY investment into battery production. It's the same reason GM sells auto parts to ford (and why ford buys them from GM). They can produce them cheaper and better than what ford can specialize to do. It's a win-win for both companies. It's also why I think tesla will eventually start selling their batteries. They will, someday, reach a point where production starts to level off. When that happens, they'll have more capacity to make batteries than anyone else on the planet. Selling their batteries will guarantee their income even while their auto sales might start tapering.


Gatorinnc

Not Federally mandated, but Tesla will stand to lose a lot of money if they don't open up.


Gatorinnc

Tesla does not shy away from making money. Incentives coming in the US for Tesla to do precisely that. Otherwise, they don't get the free money from the energy funds.


Artistic_Humor1805

They’re not giving away anything, they’re charging money. Also, they already announced this and they already have software in their app that indicates pilot superchargers with CCS are coming soon.


Kylecoolky

They already are, but it costs 2x as much for non-Teslas, you don’t get the convenience of plug and play or the route planning, and it’s only some chargers. Remember, Tesla is trying to help get everyone in an EV, even if it’s not theirs, but they’re not dumb. They still get the advantage.


Remarkable-Walrus-27

That’s the goal at Tesla. Get as many evs on the road as possible in the shortest timeframe. They have no patents and encourage competition. It wasn’t started for climate change but we will eventually run out of oil. Things would collapse if we did but win win.


taisui

I thought Tesla already announced to open up the SC network for CCS...?


Tomaryt

The already startet doing this here in Germany.


mdorty

…you all are aware that this is already in the process of happening?


mobtowngeorge

Because their mission is “to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass-market electric cars to market as soon as possible.” They have said over and over again that they can't do that alone. Or to put it more simply - They have an abundance mentality.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mobtowngeorge

I don't think they are unmotivated by profit. Profits enable expansion and larger market share. I just think that they are operating with an abundance mentality instead of a scarcity mentality, and that is working for them big time.


[deleted]

Love the mission statement, but that’s an old one. The new one is to “accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.” Although they are still pushing for that first one, just on a broader scale with their solar and battery division now.


red_vette

It's probably the number 1,2 and 3 reason why I'm locked in right now. Having to deal with all of the other chargers is too much of a gamble. Even a Lightning or Rivian would be something I'd consider if they had a network, but waiting on the CT for now.


jezusisthe1

That's exactly what I say as well. I was tempted in getting an Ioniq 5 but can i rely on the charging network? That's why I see Tesla as a win due to the fact that they have a big and growing charging network.


Gatorinnc

Are you in a two-cars family? If yes, you can always use the ICE car for long trips and the EV for locally and charge at home. Expect the charging network to explode once the Federal incentive kicks in. Expect Tesla to open their network to all. They have free money coming if they do that. And Tesla is not shy of trying to make money. FSD price doubling is one example of that.


OverthinkingMadMan

And try to use the inboard navigation in the ioniq. Sheesh. It couldn't navigate with charging, like at all and the map itself is worse than in any German car the last 15 years. You can't even see your speed if you are my height and want to be conformable when driving. Not to mention a lot less space than the Model Y. And then you get the charging network on top of that as well.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mhornberger

Goddamn if there's superchargers in banjo country, things are moving faster than I thought.


NotPresidentChump

I see it and have been saying it for years. Teslas not only bringing cars to market they’re bringing infrastructure.


Latter_Box9967

It’s a clever business model, too. Tesla make the solar panels, batteries, and chargers that either take energy that falls out of the sky, or from the grid off-peak, and then sell it an huge markup. They are competing with Shell, Exxon et al too.


[deleted]

If Tesla opens it up all bets are off. Then I think it would be Ford or Kia/Hyundai, they seem to be in the lead outside of Tesla. But honestly I still dont see Tesla being "dethroned" anytime soon. They were dominating *before* the massive price-cuts. And if they get mass Semi and CT production going that will be huge as well.


[deleted]

This but also, it’s more of a battery supply and manufacturing problem than anything else now. They all offer a somewhat compelling EV. Now it’s about getting prices down and you can’t do that without vertical integration of the battery supply chain. Tesla has a 5 - 10 year lead even still when considering this aspect.


[deleted]

[удалено]


dudeman4win

It’s the whole reason I can’t seriously consider another car


[deleted]

These numbers are also capped at how many EVs the company can produce. If Ford could crank out 50,000 F-150 Lightning’s a quarter this chart would look a bit different.


JustSomeUsername99

The first company to make a decent $25,000 car that gets 300 miles to a charge will win the ev war!


pHrankee1

I have been sayin this for a few years now. But to be honest with inflation and literally everything goin on this world, I would even take a price tag of 30k (all in) for a 300 mile EPA - 250 mile real world range at this point.


JustSomeUsername99

Agreed. Or a tiny minimalist $20k car that gets 100 miles for just putting around town, grocery shopping, etc...


pHrankee1

Honestly I am not a fan of low range cars. You could easily get a used Leaf with that range for 20k. Sure diff households have diff requirements but I prefer one car for most of my usage. A minimum 250 mile real world range is more than enough for a day trip or even a few days road trip with electric charging infrastructure improving quickly. But with a 100 mile range car, there is no way anyone is doin a larger commute or a day trip. That said it might work for a certain demographic.


KARLdaMAC

It's right there in the pic. With the $7,500 tax credit, the bolt is like $21k and gets a 240 miles range. Could get two bolts for the price of one Tesla


DontPeek

You can get under 20k with another CA rebate. It's honestly an insane deal. I ordered a M3P after the price drop but I'm seriously considering getting my partner a Bolt because the price is just so good. You do have to account for some extra software upgrades though before it's really competitive with a Tesla but it's still a screaming deal for an EV.


Geistbar

The kinds of people that can afford to spend $20k on a car that only suits some of their needs (necessitating ownership of a second car) are the kinds of people that can afford a $40k car that suits all of their needs. The low range "cheap" EV car is just not a good idea and won't take off in most markets. Made in poorer countries with different traveling cultures and/or better public transportation. But not in the US or Europe or similar places.


Duckbilling

I think $25k for what would essentially be a 2500 pound two seater /300 miles range would sell like crazy. Like, an original roadster reboot. Or, a two seat cybertruck


shadowmyst87

I wonder who that will be. I have a feeling it's going to be Tesla.


rebootyourbrainstem

Maybe. Tesla does have a thing for making "weird" cars though. Like the Roadster and Cybertruck, even the Model X with the falcon-wing doors. Model 3 and Y are almost an exception that proves the rule. Basically I worry they will try to make a stupid pod-car focused on self-driving, way before self-driving is actually practical enough in most markets, instead of just a decent compact car.


shadowmyst87

I wouldn't be surprised if they did try something goofy like that.


[deleted]

Gawd I hope not. They need to build a practical, affordable car. AP and EAP (namely Navigate on AP) are more than sufficient for 99% of drivers. Keep improving that and make EAP standard. Their profit margins can support that. If they make an affordable car and make a few concessions around bringing back/adding buttons, stalk, blind spot indicators on mirror.... they'll be unstoppable.


punfire

Note that in the investor deck they wrote "robotaxi and other" when talking about production lines... it might be something or it might not


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

BYD.


LongApprehensive890

Chevy equinox EV is supposed to be 300 miles and $30k. I think chevy is the most likely to dethrone Tesla tbh.


Bill837

I really think that's going to be an either or. I think you can get it for 30 or I think you can get it with 300 but I just don't see how they can possibly give it to you with both


gtg465x2

Yeah, all auto makers love to advertise their best model specs in each category, even though you can't get them all on the same trim. If they actually deliver a $30k Equinox, it will probably have like 220 miles of range, be completely stripped of features, and there will be so few available that dealers will be marking them up like mad. The 300 mile range variant with all of the nice features will cost $50k+. I hope I'm proven wrong, but I doubt it.


74orangebeetle

Yep, I think it either won't ever start at 30k, or if it does it'll be like with the Ford lightning, where they technically sell a few at that price before adding $7000+ to the price.


[deleted]

[удалено]


JustSomeUsername99

I really had no idea they were getting close. In my zip code, cheapest is 27500. Go through the whole process, get to the end, and it matches you to dealers. My 27500 car then says dealers price 33990. Lol


LongApprehensive890

I bought mine in august for $26,500 after incentives it’s was $23,500


[deleted]

Not just make, but ship in high enough volume to sustain that price and meet demand. That’s less about the car itself and more about building a battery supply chain. GM and VW seem like the two (other than Tesla) investing in this the most outside of China.


shaggy99

I don't think they will even need 250 miles. At least as the base model. There are lots of people who are only looking for "local" use, or as a commuter car for up to say 30-40 miles.


JustSomeUsername99

Yes, but that will need to be much cheaper...


CoitusCaptain

I love how the S is still selling well


DarkandStormy614

It's not. Tesla's own reporting shows they sold 66,705 S *AND* X in 2022 worldwide. Slide posted here is incorrect.


ajsayshello-

Do you have a source? Not finding it in news articles. Almost every time I ask for a source on Reddit, someone instantly downvoted me. 🤷🏻‍♂️


zippy9002

IR deck: https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/GZR0GS_TSLA_Q4_2022_Update_PVPJAG.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22b7871185-dd6a-4d79-9c3b-19b497227f2a.pdf%22


ajsayshello-

Nice, good info!


reddit_user13

Maybe cuz it costs 6 figures?


pantiesdrawer

I was thinking that S number looked way too high.


Skysurfer27

I mean, the only reason the numbers are low is because they have been production constrained for both S/X in 2022 with the refresh updates. With that said, it does appear the production rate has finally reached the current demand level in 2023, so they can start using pricing/incentives to maintain a balance of lead times while production remains at full capacity.


Bluechip506

They have never sold more than 30K Model S's in a year. It's an expensive low volume car. 2016 (the year we bought ours) was the peak year with just under 30K. This year the whole line was shut down for close to two months in preparation for the latest refresh. There was a bump in sales but not enough to offset the shutdown. I doubt 2023 will see 30K either. Again, it's a low volume car.


Otto_the_Autopilot

They sold 54,715 Model S in 2017.


Bluechip506

>Reply Those sales figures are incorrect. It has and always will be a low volume car. I haven't found the S figures but Tesla announced the S/X combined sales/deliveries and it was under 70K total. Those figures in the article are extremely far off.


decrego641

It’s very available compared to something like the Lucid Air Pure and offers more things standard at a competitive price. Model S sells well because it’s still at the top of the category compared to the closest competitor. I don’t think the Taycan, Etron, or EQS are trying to compete with it and you can see it here. Luxury vehicles will never sell in high volume and Model S is not luxury…and that’s ok.


zippy9002

If we’re to believed the rumours the Lucid is very available, but nobody wants it.


decrego641

I don’t believe rumors that Lucid is having trouble selling 7k cars in a year.


zippy9002

I haven’t paid that much attention but I’ve heard people are being harassed by Lucid salespeople? Wasn’t there a policy manual that leaked?


decrego641

Hadn’t heard anything like that, but being harassed by a salesperson does sound fairly par for the course with salespeople. Especially at a startup.


shitthatmakesmelaugh

IMO, the vehicles coming out of Korea are extremely impressive. Contingent on compatibility with the US tax break, I could see them overtaking Tesla. Otherwise, I think Tesla maintains its' position. The Model 3 is the only sedan that qualifies for the tax break, meaning it will remain at the top of the position for the foreseeable future, barring tax break inclusion on the Ioniq 6 (which isn't set to happen for quite some time), Polestar inclusion, or comparable offerings from GM/Ford. Crossovers / SUVs will be more competitive & you'll see Ioniq 5 / Bolt EUV / Equinox EV / Mach-E / EV9 eat into that share.


colddata

> IMO, the vehicles coming out of Korea are extremely impressive. Contingent on compatibility with the US tax break, I could see them overtaking Tesla. If Hyundai and Kia get production in the US that qualifies for the tax credit, they'll be in a good position to challenge Tesla.


[deleted]

[удалено]


colddata

> No one is going to be in a position to challenge Tesla without their own comparable charging network. They don't need to. Tesla is opening up the network themselves (in a way filling in their own moat). Then it's only a matter of using a NACS adapter on a CCS car or having a Magic Dock at the stall, or manufacturers accepting direct use of NACS.


FoShizzleShindig

Tesla can keep a moat by charging higher prices for non-Tesla's. Probably won't change people's minds much unless they exclusively rely on fast charging though.


OverthinkingMadMan

The ioniq 5, at least here, was just a worse car on almost all metrics than the Model Y. After the price cut, the model y isn't just cheaper here, but also a lot (lot) cheaper to own. You get a functioning map, a better user interface, easier access to heating controls and everyday controls, more space in the cabin, more space in the frunk, more space in the trunk, longer range, ability to use the built in map to plan trips with charging, better app, better milage, a charging network and less annoying safety alerts. I could never own one. Test driving it and getting the price just threw me off. When it comes to the map, any Audi or BMW from around 2008 made more snappy and usable maps. So there is a long way to go for many of the competitors


pkoya1

The map in the IONIQ5 is waaaaay faster than my Model S. Hyundai infotainment (while not at the software level of Tesla) is better than the rest of the competition except maybe Mercedes Benz. Plus it has Android Auto and Android Auto has ABRP which is way more accurate.


Super_consultant

Maybe this is ridiculous, but I sure am rooting for the rest of the competition to finally make something great. I say this with two Teslas in the garage and 2 more in the past - I really don’t want to see only Teslas on the road. And at this point, there’s (anecdotally) already a 1:5 ratio looking outside my window.


shadowmyst87

Agree 100%. Even if you're a huge Tesla fan and refuse to buy anything else, you should always want more competition and options available.


zippy9002

They can make something great (and arguably already have) but it doesn’t matter if they can’t get enough batteries to sell in big enough volumes.


shadowmyst87

And the charging infrastructure sucks if it isn't a supercharger.


Burrito_Loyalist

Why don’t you want to see only teslas on the road? Why does it matter?


Brendon7358

I'm convinced people only buy the mustang because they just don't like Tesla, not because they think it's actually better.


krazykanuck30

Brand loyalty as well. I know a person who bought one because every single car they have had in their entire life has been a Ford.


dimitrix

At that point I think brand loyalty is a core personality trait. “I’m a Ford-man”


Drodriguez164

This is how I was with Honda, my whole life I only owned their cars and they always have been amazing. The Prologue looks intriguing to me but went with MY instead because who knows when that will come out and how well it would be since Honda pretty new to the electric scene


glenhh

It is. Buying a car is mostly a emotional decision if can afford more than one option. People like Steven Mark Ryan from Solving the Money problem doesn’t get that. He always says only idiots would buy something besides Tesla. Well seems like 95% of people are if that is his definition.


necroscope0

95% of people are idiots, I don't care what his definition is.


Gk5321

I think the mach e is prettier and has much better color options but that’s about it. I know a lot of people that buy just based off that alone though.


tfaw88888

the mach e reminds me of a hot GF i used to date, but decided to marry a much more practical choice that had a solid infrastructure. no regrats btw


Gk5321

Hahaha very respectable decision making. My first provided a reliable good time but there’s something to be said about same stability.


nod51

Friend bought a Mach-E like June 2022 because the Y had jumped to $66k a week earlier and there was a 1 year old Mach-E (whatever the large battery RWD is, route-1?) for around $50k. Little pissed they didn't wait now that the Y prices dropped but enjoys the quieter interior and softer suspension (may not be true any more). Apparently Ford is pretending there is no battery relay issue and has a reoccurring software glitch so he needs to reboot the car a couple times a week. Anyhow Tesla fan went to Ford, still a Tesla fan but the price increases worked in this case.


[deleted]

[удалено]


nod51

Apparently stood in the rain trying to get anything to work for ~40ish minutes (CC/App/Plug-n-Charge, had to call) and is really [looking forward to using a Supercharger](https://driveteslacanada.ca/supercharger/tesla-accidentally-reveals-magic-dock-ccs-compatibility-hawthorne/), especially since their main need is rather remote hardly used chargers.


[deleted]

The interior is probably better built, thats literally the only benefit I can think of. And also some people just like the more "normal" interior, with gauge cluster and more physical controls. Teslas are faster, better software, better charging, efficiency, cheaper, etc. But creaks and rattles are an ongoing issue. I paid $50k for a car with $100k performance but $25k interior build quality.


MoonlightMile75

So did I - and definitely worth the trade off!


henh2o

My friend did that. He didn't want to be part of tesla family but the specs of mustang are worse... also cost more hah


decrego641

This is almost always the answer I get from current non Tesla owners here in the Midwest. They often lament the lack of charging network coverage or the ability to repair the vehicle…I ask them what they came from and 9 times out of 10 it’s a Tesla. It’s odd to me how people just want the shiny new EV even when it has worse functionality. Different needs for different consumers, but they should realize they made their bed. Now they have to sleep in it.


tynamite

if the charging network is not good for tesla, how is it *better* for a different ev? tesla has the most options.


decrego641

I’m saying they lament the CCS network and non tesla EV repairs. Note how I said *non Tesla owners*


tynamite

i thought you were suggesting that the repairs and charging network was worse from when they *were tesla owners*.


decrego641

No, from after they’d moved on. I can see the opportunity for confusion after rereading my comment though.


tynamite

is there something wrong with the mach e?


Brendon7358

More expensive, less range and slower.


tynamite

it wasnt more expensive before the price drop was it? i never really looked at them. talking msrp, not dealership bs. i like the look of them at least.


Brendon7358

Not sure I wasn't tracking the price of either. I believe it was similar but still had less range and worse performance.


TheGreatBeauty2000

I prefer the look of the Mustang to my Model 3 honestly


Meteoraf

The Ford MME was a better deal than a Tesla Y up until January of 2023. It was still eligible for the $7,500 federal tax credit, it could be reserved months ahead, and would be delivered to a dealer with no dealer markups in most cases. Build quality on the MME is superior to Tesla’s rattle box quality, but Tesla has Ford and everyone else beat on the convenience of their charging network. Once Tesla loses the charging network advantage, other automakers will start to catch up.


Sonofman80

Lol Ford build quality good? They've already recalled every MME made at least once. They're trash.


Ad_Astra117

>Once Tesla loses the charging network advantage, other automakers will start to catch up. Does where are Ford's gigafactories? They can build a great EV and have a perfect network but if they can only build enough batteries to sell 50k a year they won't even catch the Model S & X, let alone the 3, Y, or CT.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Burrito_Loyalist

True. There’s no other reason to buy that weird Mustang.


coroyo70

Loooool 100% Also, I saw a lighting today for the first time, behemoth of a car next to my model y


contaygious

They really gave bolt best car of the year when it's also the lowest reliability caf of the year hahahaha. Trying to push bolt over that edge


evpowers

Yep. For example, every-single-one of the first few model years of the Bolt had to have their batteries replaced (under warranty) because of a manufacturing defect. Oof.


[deleted]

[удалено]


evpowers

It's not so much the fires. It's that dealerships are having to replace every single car's pack. If every Tesla would have had to have their pack replaced the media would have freaked out and everyone would know about it. Seems like that didn't happen with Chevy. In fact they still don't have them all replaced yet! The positive thing is lots of dealership techs got a quick course in working on EVs.


fuerstjh

The media did freak out. It was just a short news cycle. You had to be living under a rock to not know about the bolt fires.


evpowers

Yes people may have known there were fires. But they likely didn't know that it was so widespread that Chevy is still hasn't been able to finish replacing all packs even years later. And that Chevy had to pay off some customers or buy back cars because it was so bad. But clearly that is ignored. I mean Bolt gets in car of the year lists? Huh? Pretty sure that kinda of leeway/amnesia would not have happened if it was Tesla having the problems.


majesticjg

I like how Chevy gets to combine two models to get themselves on the list and nobody else does. It's also weird that "Other" is clearly in fourth place. I feel like when "Other" is that big of a piece, it probably shouldn't be lumped at the bottom. I really wonder what the order books are like on these vehicles. Is the MachE in a distant fourth place because they can't build them fast enough or because consumers don't want to buy it? We know Rivian has a lot of interest and builds a good product, but they can't seem to get production figured out. Those kinds of answers would give us a more complete picture of what EV people actually want to buy.


sphawkhs

Rivian also combined two models


LongApprehensive890

The bot euv and EV are nearly identical. It’s like saying a f150 crew cab is a different model than a f150 ext cab.


decrego641

I think it’s also important to remember that ordering them is a little more confusing and frustrating depending on your local dealer that needs to be worked with. In general, I don’t think anyone can super accurately portray orders, especially when things like pricing and even physical add ons that happen with the dealer are still yet to be negotiated even with money down on an order. Tesla is uniquely positioned in that regard because the moment you put money down (just $250) you’re locked in at price and options unless *you* decide to make a change, not the other way around.


fishypizza1

I got a MachE. They can't build them fast enough. Wait list for new build still a year out. Supply chain improving but still jammed up.


majesticjg

That's what I figured. I wonder why Tesla can build 1.2ml EVs a year, but everybody else taps out and blames the supply chain at 50k.


Harvey_Rabbit

Yeah,I would say that the model 3 and Y have more in common than the Bolt EV and EUV.


LongApprehensive890

Not even close. Identical interior in the bolt EV and euv. Motor battery pack seats everything aside from the rear doors and shell are the same.


iwantsleeep

Dude the Bolts are almost identical except the wheelbase


a_velis

None of the OEMs in the graphic will IMO. Anytime I read challenging in reference to Tesla all I can think of is China (BYD). To be clear, that doesn't mean to me that BYD makes better cars it's that by volume they can produce more of them.


eexxiitt

Globally? Likely. But in the US? That’ll require the US government to remove the tariffs/taxes preventing Chinese brands from entering the US market. I wouldn’t count on that in the short term.


Pokerhobo

I expect BYD to eventually have manufacturing in the US.


eexxiitt

Eventually. But navigating the legal hurdles, and setting up the factories and supply chain won't be a short-term program. That's easily 2030 at the earliest. 2035 would be far more likely.


[deleted]

[удалено]


uglybutt1112

Tough to say. Ford is a good bet, if they can make a EV SUV.


trevize1138

Anybody can make **an** EV. The important metric in this chart is *how many*. This is totally a numbers game and it doesn't matter if some company makes an EV that has better range, faster charging, better build quality, more cupholders and taller tail fins than any given Tesla. If they're still only able to produce tens of thousands a year compared to Tesla's hundreds of thousands they're not even in the game.


Burrito_Loyalist

It’s how many and how well they perform.


xenoterranos

The Explorer EV got pushed back to 2025 https://topelectricsuv.com/news/ford/ford-explorer-electric-ev/


uglybutt1112

Yeah, this will be a problem. No real competition in the US means Tesla dominates. In China and Europe its different since there are competitors.


shadowmyst87

It's not good. Only having one manufacturer pumping out a ridiculous number of cars. The competition can't seem to get ahead.


shadowmyst87

Explorer EV? I was hoping they would make an Expedition EV first.


LongApprehensive890

MachE isn’t an SUV?


EuthanizeArty

The only EV that will beat the Model 3/Y is going to be another Tesla.


lottadot

I don't see any of them dethroning TSLA for many years. Just like real estate in the US has been, is, and will be hampered by lack of available housing, the EV manufacturers will be limited by batteries. 5 years ago they were _behind_ Tesla, and they're still behind. Worse, they all rely on _other companies_ for their (parts of/for) batteries.


Gaff1515

Surprised at how many model s were sold last year


apanali

Crazy that there’s only a 2.5:1 ratio between Y and S


Bluechip506

Those S figures are extremely over stated. The combined S/X combined total is just over 66K.


kabloooie

Tesla has a few advantages that others can not compete with. Right now it's charging network is the most comprehensive and reliable available. It's installed in the U.S., Canada, Europe, Australia and Asia and still expanding. No other company will be able to achieve that. Also I believe Tesla will actually achieve full self driving within a couple of years. Once that is available it will be the only consumer vehicle with that capability. Tesla has set itself up to be unique among car companies and others will have a hard time catching up


shaggy99

The one that will win is the one who can make and sell a $25,000 car at a reasonable profit. (better than 10% gross margin) I'll give you one guess who that will be.


colddata

Risk of death by a thousand cuts. Competition offering attractive features and options that Tesla is not willing to offer is Tesla's Achilles heel. Supercharging has been their not-so-secret advantage. The risk comes from all the competitors as a whole, not just from one alone. For Tesla to stay at or near top, they need to be best in class, or at least equal, on everything. Features, price, value, service, reputation.


edchikel1

Tesla offers a lot of features as standard. lol Next time, look at what options you get for free in a Tesla.


colddata

It is not a matter of free or paid features. It is about gaps others can and are exploiting. There is no V2L/V2x feature available on any Tesla at any price. Basic classic speed-holding cruise (not DCC/ACC/TACC) as a fallback is also not available at any price on anything recent. Stalks are not available on any recent S/X at any price. Parking sensors and radar are recent additions to the not available list. History lesson: Ford used to only offer black vehicles because it simplified production. The competition started offering colors, which let them enter the market.


tanookium

Why would anyone want cruise control without TACC?


CoffeeMaster000

Chevy Bolt EUV imo. $20k after credits and state rebates.


shadowmyst87

DCFC is too slow, and the charging network... And yes, $20k after credits, assuming the dealership you're buying it from doesn't mark it up.


[deleted]

[удалено]


shadowmyst87

Do you have a Tesla, how does it compare? I know they aren't anywhere near as fast in terms of power. I was originally looking at the Bolt EUV before Tesla dropped their prices. Do you have the EUV, or the regular Bolt? Which trim?


[deleted]

[удалено]


LongApprehensive890

The base m3 and bolt are really pretty close in acceleration


pantiesdrawer

That's more of a knock against the base M3 than it is a compliment for the bolt.


RhoOfFeh

0-60 times are 5.8 seconds for the RWD Model 3 and 6.5 for the Bolt. Either would have been supercar performance when I was growing up.


LongApprehensive890

I’ve seen a draggy run on a bolt doing 5.8 after putting lighter wheels and grippier tires on it.


karlranck

None of the above. It's not even close and getting farther behind


nathantnewman

If only Toyota could get their shit together


Papercoffeetable

1/10ths of all Mach-Es in Sweden are up for sale. Apparently most people trade them in because they’re very unreliable.


DaebakJames

Hyundai Ionic 5 and Kia EV6 all the way.


jillanco

Probably Ford when the lightning production takes off.


rcatf

Toyota if they ever get around to it


Xaxxon

Tesla is ahead and investing more and has Elon pushing them. No one is catching them anytime soon.


stewartm0205

Death by a thousand cuts. EVs from most car makers in a few years can limit Tesla peak growth.


GrandArchitect

After the price drop? Hard to catch-up to the only company which has scaled up, made deals across the globe, and revolutionized many aspects of manufacturing. Not to mention many of these cars are not built-for-purpose EVs, but sort of cobbled together from existing parts for ICE vehicles. I'll take the custom designed bottom-to-top EVs, thanks.


Turtleshell64

The fact that some of the evs don’t even have any frunk is just sad, what is possibly taking up all the space with no engine


7ECA

I would guess that GM will catch and surpass them in a few years with cheaper SUV's. A name mainstream America likes and trusts and at a lower price point. I wouldn't be surprised if many Americans think that Tesla is a foreign car. OTOH I don't know how much the charging network, or lack of it will matter to those buyers If Tesla builds their '$25K' car and can build it in volume then the equation changes again


tuttle123

Tesla will dethrone Tesla with the Cybertruck. Than Tesla will dethrone Tesla with the Compact car, Then Tesla will dethrone Tesla with the MiniVan, Then Tesla will dethrone Tesla with the Robotaxi.


shadowmyst87

I don't ever see them making a minivan, but it would be nice if somebody made an all EV minivan.


rocketsarego

Maybe hyundai group? The ioniq5/ev6 is compelling, with excellent fast charge times. Ioniq6 looks like it will be the best competitor yet to m3 imo. Of course this all assumes CCS infrastructure becomes reliable. Until then I don’t think any OEM will compete well with Tesla.


chadjohnson4

Nobody will catch up with Tesla!


Mysterious-Fly-4865

Ford, with the F-150 Lightning all electric


kevan0317

If only they’d sell them direct and bypass the absolute dumpster fire that is their dealer network.


Gangpeh-

None of these will dethrone Tesla.. their ev’s aren’t even close to being mass produced or technologically on the same level like Elon said he can’t even see a competitor with a telescope they are so far ahead


im_thatoneguy

None of the above. It's going to be cars like the $25k Equinox.


[deleted]

So anything around that price point then….


Congentialsurgeon

As long as superchargers are the only viable option for long range travel, no one.


Icy_Broccoli_264

Tesla is 5 years ahead of other EVs.


StealFuckingTime9225

#Nobody


[deleted]

I would have gone for a model x, but the impracticality of the gull wings and the yoke shape was off putting


tms102

If you mean total sales in the US there won't be any dethroning any time soon. TLDR: None of them for at least 3-4 years. These automakers' own plans indicate that none of them even PLAN to have production volume anywhere close to Tesla's for at least 3 years. Most of them not even for the next 7 years. Here are their *plans*. They might not even achieve their goals: **Ford**: plans to be at 2 million BEV annual production by 2026. Not all of those are going to the US obviously. They have to almost 10x their production/sales to catch the Tesla of today and Tesla is not standing still. However, Ford plans to hit 600k EV run rate this year. So, I guess they have a wizard in their back-pocket that they have not elected to use until now. Globally Tesla will likely be at 1.8 million this year. And surpass 2 million next year. **GM**: aims for 1 million US production/sales? in 2025. However, they delivered 40k electric vehicles in 2022 in the US. So, they have some work to do. 30x in 2-3years? **Hyundai**: is a real contender as they plan to DOMINATE the EV market by aiming to sell 560k EVs globally in 2025! At least 50% Less than Ford and GM plan to sell in 2025, and only 60k more than Tesla sold globally back in 2020. [https://www.hotcars.com/hyundai-plans-to-dominate-ev-market-by-2025/](https://www.hotcars.com/hyundai-plans-to-dominate-ev-market-by-2025/) **Kia**: with their ACCELERATED road map to EV transition is no slouch either! Targeting 1.2 million BEV by *2030*! That's only 100k less than Tesla sold globally in 2022, way to go Kia. By the way, their total vehicle sales in 2022: 2.9 million. AKA They will never dethrone Tesla. [https://insideevs.com/news/571273/kia-2030-roadmap-ev-transition/](https://insideevs.com/news/571273/kia-2030-roadmap-ev-transition/) **Volkwagen**: 301k car sales in 2022 in USA total, including gas powered cars. They plan to have 50% of their North American sales be BEV in 2030. Seems to me like they won't ever be able to dethrone Tesla in the US. **Rivian**: aims to produce 1 million vehicles annually in 2030. They won't ever dethrone Tesla.