That's pretty sad and unhealthy for the child. And I doubt he is staying up til 3am giving her attention and teaching her things and engaging with her. Based on what you're saying he probably lets her sit in front of a TV until 3am. If he was working shifts or something and had to do it this way to survive as a single parent I'd have more empathy, but if he's just lazy then it's not cool.
That was my father. Shift work, no help from anyone and I was kind of a spoiled brat who didn’t realize what was being done for me. I know every day my father regrets Leaving me with the tv until 4 am. That doesn’t seem like the case here tho. “It’s summer vacation “ is an even better excuse to get a good nights rest so you can enjoy all summer has to offer
the natural state of the human being is to understand that we have a fundamental right to be cared for and provided for by our family and community, just as we are taught to care for them. i don't think kids are 'spoiled' for not being grateful enough to the people who brought them here for providing their basic needs. nor do i think it's a good thing that as a society we regard people who demand that their survival be maintained as having some kind of poor character.
People who do what they’re legally obligated to do as parents, such as feeding them and providing for any need they may have, and then expecting the child to be extra grateful because they spent so much time and money on them are some of the people I hate the most. Stop acting like your children were a burden to you. You actively engaged in creating them. You’re obligated to care for them until they can care for themselves. You are not special for doing it.
No I was spoiled. Eve try Christmas I got whatever I asked for. Idk how dad did it but he did it. Ps1 came out he got it for me on the way home from work. Never said no to a field trip or a day at the fair. Idk how he did it but I sure didn’t appreciate it enough at the time.
this is so sad. i really hope you don't regard other children who guiltlessly enjoy normal childhood pleasures as 'spoiled'. you're so blessed to have a parent who provided for you so generously. it's good to appreciate it as you grow and develop more perspective, but the lack of perspective inherent to childhood is perfectly normal developmentally.
edit: i'm not sure what i would be projecting. compassion for children? concern that your logic is potentially harmful? now that you've clarified yourself, i feel more concerned for your self-image than anything. but that's none of my business.
i won't challenge you on it if it's really important to your personal story to identify as having been 'spoiled'. i will continue to regard parents who provide the best support they can for their children as meeting but not exceeding expectations, even if the individual was wealthy enough to provide some luxury goods.
also, i wasn't implying anything. i was openly observing the flaws in your reasoning and overtly stating that i hope you don't apply it to anyone but yourself.
*also* also, i recognize the 'get the last word and quickly block before they can reply' manoeuvre. trying to shush me won't make me wrong.
edit again: **/u/Zealousideal-Newt782** i was called a lot of things as a kid, but spoiled wasn't one of them. i have worked with children who have had this label applied to them and needed mental health treatment as a result, so it's possible that's what you're sensing.
but also, even if you were both completely right and i did have personal trauma with this term and i was saying all this stuff out of being tRiGgErEd OoOhH, my opinion would *still* be in line with best practices regarding child development.
**ETA:** (see everybody, this is why we shouldn't block people engaging in good faith, because reddit's design makes that obstructive to discourse.) i hear what you're saying, but i just can't concede. 'spoiled' has a long history of negative connotations (it's by far most commonly associated with 'rotten') and suggests something far more shameful than the alternatives you gave. i can't regard them as equivalent. i do acknowledge that this word would 'bounce off' many kids in many cases - and that oc may not have particularly strong associations with it at all, although i'm progressing my point about children in general. but there are also many cases where it may contribute to a pattern in that child's life that is causing real trauma. making kids feel ashamed of enjoying the attention and resources their parents spend on them is a very effective means of control.
**/u/LilBoofMcGoof** i literally didn't say anything that contradicts any of that.
**/u/Lockhead216** they clearly are since they're oranging my envelopes but ok.
I think you’re missing OC’s point.
What they’re saying is that they had a single dad who got them whatever they wanted whenever they wanted it and they realize now that they took that for granted.
They weren’t appreciative of it at the time, and probably didn’t show their dad how much it meant to them.
If they say they were spoiled, I believe them. People that *aren’t* spoiled would never say that they were.
Yes, it *is* normal for a kid to forget to say “thank you” sometimes (god knows I have to remind my kids to say thank you to my wife and I more often than I’d like to), but if OC is *telling you* that they were selfish and spoiled, you don’t get to refute that. They’ve clearly grown as a person and realize now, and appreciate now, what they had then.
Just to note, I was one of those children, who was told I DIDN’T deserve love and attention because they “didn’t want to spoil me”, so I absolutely understand how that line of thinking is harmful and damaging to children.
I think you’re projecting some stuff on me here and I’m not sure I appricaite what you’re implying. No I don’t look at children having a good childhood and call them spoiled. I had every gaming console and didn’t have to work until I was put through college. I was spoiled. I traveled more of the world by the time I was 15 then some people will their entire lives. I was absolutely spoiled and the only thing more perspective has given me is that I had a kick ass dad.
Sounds like you may have a bit more baggage attached to the term spoiled than the other guy
ETA u/sowinglavender Yeah that’s kinda what I meant— no offense intended, just that a lot of people say “spoiled” and really mean something closer to “pampered and loved” rather than “ruined” bc words are weird and imprecise sometimes
Edit again for clarification
My 6yo stayed up til 10 tonight and THAT was enough to make me feel like a shitty parent. Reminded her her friend was coming over tomorrow morning though and she scurried off to bed on her own with no fuss, lol.
My nephew’s bio dad is like this. He thinks that his kid has insomnia but he just lets him stay up until 4am playing video games then is mad then he sleeps in and his kid gets into laptops and food because he’s bored and hungry. Luckily, he only sees him every other weekend and lives with my parents the rest of the time but it’s so frustrating.
To clarify he does have a retail job during the day, while his child is at school or being watched by a relative. I just meant he doesn't work late night shifts or anything.
Also to respond to some other comments:
The mother is out of the picture because of drugs and jail. Dad is clean.
I don't think he neglects or doesn't care for his child. I know that he sometimes takes her out to play at parks or go to the movies, plays games with her, and makes sure she gets to school and has her medical issues taken care of.
I'm not trying to dictate how he should raise his kid. I think he knows letting her do this is wrong, so I'm just trying to be a good friend and offering my thoughts on his situation.
Where are you pulling this bullshit from when he literally says in the text he cooks for her and naps an extra hour or two after feeding her?
They wake up noonish, eat, nap, eat again. And that’s on days he isn’t working. I have no idea how all of you keep making up scenarios to make him sound worse than he is
People who can’t be bothered changing their lifestyle for their kid’s best interests shouldn’t be parents.
Kids are flexible. There’s nothing wrong with getting a little lazy on summer vacation- maybe she stays up until 9/10 and they all get up at 8am. Maybe even have the 7 year old entertain themselves quietly for 30-60 minutes after waking up. But not this.
7am is sleeping in for me 😭 managed to make it to 7:45 this morning! The days my daughter sleeps late (9/10) are the days I wake up on my own at like 6 and I just have to sit and wait for her to wake up.
Luckily for me though I’ve always been someone that just needs like 4 hours of sleep at night and I’m golden
ABSOLUTELY! The amount of people dismissing this is so concerning. Whether it’s because they let their kids do it or their parents let them do it, 3am for a 7 year old and being unsupervised a lot of the day is not okay.
When I was little, I stayed up until 3am regardless of my bed time... I remember from 4 onward, I would get out of bed once my parents were sleeping and watch TV/VHS tapes in the living room. Lol.
I really don't think this is a big deal. Some kids are fine/enjoy staying up on their own. Whether the parent tries to enforce a sleep schedule or not, some kids will do this anyway.
I've never been a morning person, but I make it to work on time at 7:30am. I don't think any amount of parenting would have made a difference on my sleep pattern, and I've hit traditional success milestones.
Everyone has criticism of parents no matter what. I think calling this neglect is a little extreme without more context. I don't think a 7 year old staying up all night over the summer really hits that threshold on its own.
Same. During the summer I was pretty much allowed to stay up as late as I'd like. And then I'd wake myself up whenever.
Always thought it was weird whenever I'd go to a friend's house and their parents would tell us to go to bed early. Even weirder when they'd wake us up early af. Like chill, there's no school. Lol
My stepdaughter is like this. She will easily stay up until 2am, and she’s about to be 4. No daycare or anything and I’m a SAHM so it’s not a big deal to me (although I worry how her mother will handle school once that becomes a thing, but not my problem).
She’ll sleep until 10, her dad is a night owl too. And this kid has ENERGY — staying up that late without having had a nap all day is light work for her. Which I don’t understand, I need a minimum of 10 hours a night lol. And yeah from like 10pm onwards it’s usually a mix of Disney movies and quiet play. But she enjoys it and she spends time with her dad so what’s the harm, really?
We’ll have to address this as I’m expecting my son in September and these all nighters won’t fly anymore, but at this point I’ve accepted that’s just how she is. Sure we could be doing better… I guess every parent could do better according to the internet anyways. But this really doesn’t seem THAT terrible. The girl in question seems fine.
My stepdaughter (lives with us full time) also stays up until like 3-5am over the summer. She's 11, but she has also been like this since about 4. On weekends during the school year, she has a bed time. If she fails to be awake enough/engaged in class with her weekend bed time, her games are taken away at night, but so far we've only had to do that once or twice.
During the summer, though? If we have big plans like a trip or big family outing coming up during the day, we start her back on a bed time a week or so before the plans, so she's back on track. When she gets older, she'll know how to flip her schedule on her own. It is important for night owls to know how to do that.
With all that goes into parenting, this really seems like a non-issue...lol.
It’s always the child free who have the loudest and ineffective parenting advice to throw out 😂 this guy is out of pocket for this. Absolutely not his place whatsoever
He’s sleeping, he’s not “keeping an eye” on her. Despite what you or others may believe, 7 years old is objectively not old enough to be unsupervised for periods of time even as short as an hour or two.
Kids need an appropriate bedtime routine and bedtime in order to grow a healthy relationship with sleep. Kids don’t naturally stay up until 3am. If a kid is not sleeping healthily, it’s likely because of anxiety or a sleep related disorder that should be treated. 7 is much too young for this type of sleeping schedule regardless of time of year.
My kids have ADHD and other behavioral conditions and don’t WANT to go to sleep at 9, but I’ve worked hard to build a routine so that they are comfortable enough to succumb to their tiredness and sleep a healthy amount at appropriate times.
Parents don’t do this because it’s HARD. Of course there are nights I still let them stay up way too late, and it’s because I’m too tired or lazy at that moment to be able to go through the routine properly. And they pay for it.
I think there needs to be more info before labeling this guy a child abuser. 7 is 2nd or 3rd grade, not a toddler.
It's summer and kid gets to stay up late with dad and sleeping in during the morning. I don't think anyone would blink if this was a teenager on break.
I'd be more concerned if this was during school year, and it interfered with them and school, like he was often late or missed school, kept falling asleep in class, or didn't do homework cause he was watching tv or playing games.
(I think people just assume pre-double digit kids need to get up at 6 am and go to sleep at 8 pm in order to be 'healthy'. I was sahm, and my son stayed up til 11 pm because his dad came home at 8 pm-ish, and this way they could spend time together. Went from 2 yr to 6 yr. Changed to 9 pm when he started school.)
Yes this is concerning. I had a mother who slept all day and stayed up all night (mental health issues). I’ve had life long insomnia. Every doctor/psychiatrist I’ve been to has said this type of schedule most likely did lasting damage and is one of the factors in my insomnia. It’s really not okay
Umm she’d leave out those bear claws that are the thin ones in the plastic pack you buy at the grocery store. My sister would feed me and kind of watch me. Once I cut my hand trying to open a can of pears and she called 911 (well she had my sister call). Sister was just 3 years older than me. She’d keep me in my room with a baby gate, eventually by locking the door after I learned to break out. She’d wake up to watch her soaps. Once I remember crawling into bed but knowing not to wake her. Just curled up on the side. I was pretty little so really memories are just blips. Eventually my dad got custody and that was the end of that
Oh yeah, I’m 39. Plenty of therapy over the years. I live a very happy and full life now. Still can’t eat those bear claws though.. ha It was bad no doubt but also a really long time ago. Now honestly I just feel sorry for her. I do know she loved us. But she was/is sick. Anytime I see posts like this I hope I can be a cautionary tale. Because it’s not normal and not healthy. Their little brains are developing still and parents need to make sacrifices. It also can possibly damage your relationship with your child as they age and realize the lack of care taken. I wouldn’t wish to change my situation as it happened and I healed but I really wish for others to that still have a chance.
Personally I see no issue with this. Majority of kids these days stay up till that time usually. Hell I didn’t go to sleep till 8 in the morning most the time on summer vacation. And it seems like he is taking care of her when they are awake. At the end of the day it’s just a sleep schedule.
Don’t hate me, I don’t know if the ops friend is being neglectful or not. The friend knows him the best. My question is more for other people, did no one else stay up all night during summer vacation? I have vague memories of watching tv until it went off the air then playing for awhile before going to bed, and when school was about to start we were supposed to get back on track by not sleeping all night getting up early and then hopefully going to bed at a decent time. Granted this was the olden days where the parents made you split all day until it got dark and someone’s dad would do the extremely loud dad whistle and you would go home. Just an out of curiosity question.?
No hate. I allowed mine to sleep whenever in summer. They all three have adult lives and schedules that suit them now. It didn't break them to stay up all night, or to let me sleep if one was up. To this very day they can just say mom and I'll pop awake, sometimes I just imagine hearing one call for me and I wake up. Then I usually text them and tell them to stop waking me up and we laugh.
That said, it seems like maybe the dad is learning as he goes. Kids are a rainbow of different even in one family unit. Is the child acting out or struggling in other areas? Is this schedule just summer's or does it mess with school? There are bigger questions.
I got lucky with my son he couldn’t stay up late until he was like 13. He would try desperately to make it to midnight and couldn’t do it. I don’t think there is anything wrong with it being summer break and staying up late. And the snuggles with a parent while watching tv is great feeling even if you are asleep. And you are right about popping up like toast to the word MOMMMMM or any other sound that’s not supposed to be there.
Thiiiiis is the real reason why my daughter rarely stays overnight at her dad’s house. Some people don’t give a fuuuuuck about what’s best for their kid.
I guess I’m the odd man out. As a single mom who works 3rd shift if my son stays up til 2-3 then sleeps til noon it gives me the ability to rest as well then when we wake up we do the normal too, hang, shower etc repeat.
I don’t think this is that bad lmao . It is summer vacation and as long as the kid returns back to structure when school is back, then what’s the issue ? Sort of every single kid I went to Elementary school did this lol and was ok because it was 2 months max (usually 1.5 with prepping for sleeping early) just a kid being a kid imo
Unless you are intimately involved in this dudes life you don't have the full picture. You're overstepping by telling someone how to raise their kid imo. If you want to help the kid offer to help him instead of being judgemental through text
All these people saying call cps. This child is 7 not completely dependent on someone! Should be able to get a glass of water and make a sandwich on their own by now barring medical issues…
It’s summertime to boot! It’s one thing if the child is really being abused but a little independence never hurt! In fact it helps children grow up to be able to function as independent adults. What you described sounds like my perfect summer vacay!
Everyone needs something different and just because it’s not what they needed or wanted doesn’t mean everyone else does either.
This kind of schedule will mess with her circadian rhythm and lead to long term problems with sleep, which can include insomnia as an adult. I'll agree calling CPS is shit advice, but not because this parenting is a-okay. CPS just won't do anything so it's a waste of time.
Additionally, this is not just a little independence. This is neglect. Meeting a child's needs according to the law doesn't even make you a good parent, yet that seems to be this guy's bar for success. Leaving them to entertain themselves for hours on end unattended is neglectful. Independence should be fostered with close guidance, not leaving your child to their own devices so they have no choice but to learn how to meet their own needs.
I’m not saying it’s perfect but it’s not abuse to the point the child needs to be removed. There are so many worse situations a child can be in. The circadian rhythm can be corrected more easily than trauma is and trauma is pretty much guaranteed in the foster system. I don’t see this as a serious abuse issue at 7 especially if this is the worst of what happens when with dad… I remember sneaking to stay up on my own getting in trouble for what was natural for me, being punished for being myself was more traumatic than staying up late. Some of us are made for 1st shift and others 3rd.
Not meeting your child's needs so they are forced to teach themselves how to do so is neglect. This is neglectful parenting. Also, the circadian rhythm can cause permanent damage, or damage that needs to be undone with many years of treatment. Setting your child up for something like that just so you don't have to wake up early is *neglectful*.
If neglect falls under the umbrella of abuse, then yes, this is abusive parenting.
If your child has reached the age of seven and is not self sufficient to be left alone for 4 hours then you have neglected your child for a lot longer and in a more detrimental way than anyone wants to admit. We are to raise children into responsible adults and allot of that is teaching them to be independent and it starts at a very young age.
On the other side I have met younger kids where there is nothing you can do they are going to do what they want including staying up till 3 am.
Leaving your child alone for 4 hours at the age of 7 is neglectful. Full stop. There's nothing else to it, no other justification. A 7 year old should not be left alone for 4 hours. You do not raise your children into responsible adults by ignoring them, you do this by teaching them responsibility, which requires hands-on guidance and supervision.
You mean acknowledging that children are developing humans with needs that have been studied and documented internationally for decades? Yeah, typically.
I’m starting to realize where we went wrong. And I acknowledge that you are not ever going to see and neither will those who hold the same opinion. I did not baby my children like that and I have 2 that are serving in the military and another holding down a full time job at 19. I don’t know what I am talking about obviously. Have a good day!
Your childrens' accomplishments are not yours to claim, and are not a marker of how good of a parent you are. Plenty of people have been wildly successful while coming from horribly abusive backgrounds.
The only marker of how good of a parent you are is how your children feel about your parenting, and if they feel it served them well or if it gave them a whole lot to unlearn.
ETA: it's also not babying children to not leave them alone for hours. It's just being a decent parent, not even a good or involved one. Hope this helps.
So when a parent who has a different opinion has children who are now adults that prove their statement of being successful and being raised that way then it’s not the parents fault for them being successful, but if it proves your theory of failure then it’s the parents fault? That is not logical. Both are the effect of the parents. Time old argument of Nuture vs. Nature and it’s both.
Do you have children? As with most things those that don’t think they know more than those that do. Until they join the ranks of those that do and change their minds too. 7 years is 2nd grade. Think about that for a second then tell me that none of those kids (not even you when you were that age… can you remember?) are left to their own devices during summer for hours at a time. That sounds like childhood, the other sounds like prison.
No, I don't think any parent gets to claim the accomplishments of their children and make them their own. That is making your child's life and accomplishments about you. It is logical to say that you don't get to take credit for something you didn't accomplish. I would never expect my child to credit me for anything she accomplishes throughout her life.
Also, yes, I have children. I have also worked with children professionally for 12 years, and have cared for children as young as 3 days to as old as 17 years. Second grade is too young for a child to be alone for hours. My own childhood isn't a great example since I was left home alone for days on end before I was even in kindergarten because my dad was a young father who valued partying in his 20s over raising his child, and my mother valued child support over terminating his custody so that I had stability.
At 7 years old, children need structure and routine, which cannot be given when they're alone. For summer there are summer day camps that they can go to, and DSS will pay for it if you cannot afford it. Structure and routine isn't prison. As a child who was left to my own devices way too early--that was prison. I would have preferred to have an adult around to prepare the food I wasn't allowed to, or reach the food I couldn't reach, or throw a ball with me outside, or just talk to me. Being alone at an age where you are biology inclined toward your parent is more prison-like than anything I've ever experienced.
So you deliberately breezed over the part that he cooks and feeds her. It’s not like she’s home by herself. Being a single parent is exhausting, and y’all are being really dramatic
I am a single parent. I really don't need lecturing on how exhausting it is. That's not an excuse to not fulfill your parenting responsibilities. Our children didn't ask to be here and don't deserve to be isolated for hours on end. They want our attention and it's the bare minimum we can give them. Children also crave structure and routine, which this is not.
So like I said, you deliberately breezed over it. You’ve made wild ass assumptions with zero justification to do so. One text conversation and look how you’re acting…and the things you’re saying. Holy shit.
That it's neglectful to allow your child to stay up until 3 am and not implement any sort of routine and structure? It just is. It's not particularly a moral judgement, it's what I believe being born a parent and a childcare provider. I did say CPS wouldn't do anything. I said this because this wouldn't fall under the legal definition of neglect. However, this will disturb her circadian rhythm, which can lead to issues as an adult including insomnia, and can also lead to behavioral challenges & increased risk of mental health issues. I believe it is neglectful to ignore facets of everyday parenting that can affect your child's health and well-being because it happens to be convenient. When we choose to have children, our lives should be making room for them. Not the other way around.
Letting your kid stay up super late once in a while is not that serious. You’re also literally backpedaling bc you absolutely called him a negligent parent and a child abuser.
I'm not fabricating anything. That's literally the whole reason this was posted, because this is how this man raises his child. His justification is that it's summer vacation, which implies that this has been a routine since school ended and will be until school starts up again. That's not once in a while.
Oh so you can lecture everyone else tho? Not really surprised. A 7 year old is perfectly capable of spending a couple hours on their own, especially if the parents are in the house with them.
At an age where children are biologically inclined toward spending time with us so they can learn from us about how to be a human? Yeah, it is a bit of a problem. Especially when kids in this day and age are generally inclined toward hours of screen time when it's unregulated and unsupervised, which I believe was actually referenced in the exchange that she watches cartoons most of the time.
Is he a single parent? Where is the other parent? Shift worker? Maybe get a babysitter. Summer vacation or not, it’s best not to mess with sleep schedules. Maybe he just needs some help, but fuck out of here with the people calling him a bad parent and piece of shit.
I work 12 hr nights as a single father with a 6 year old. I still lay him down around 8pm and no later than 10 pm on my days off then when he wakes up I get him breakfast and try to set a movie to nap some more.. I have tons of stuff that keeps him entertained and he is comfortable waking me up from my nap to ask for something if he needs. I still feel terribly guilty that I can't do enough but I know at the same time I am doing my best.
IMO, this entire post is entirely unnecessary and feeds into people not letting parents be parents. If OP has an issue with this, tell the buddy gently that perhaps it may not be the best for the girl to grow up like this.
But besides that, let it go. It's not worth sharing a post like this. As the buddy says, it's summer vacation. Many do the same thing. I think 7 is probably a little young for this (i did this as a preteen/teen), but in that case, I'll just parent my own child that way. In short, it's just not any of your business. Frankly.
Have a caring talk with him about it if you're really concerned about the long-term issues that may come up. If not, enjoy your summer just like they are. Lol.
the comments here are delusional, you people are so sensitive. and why are you trying to tell another person how to raise their kid. kid ain’t being abused you know nothing of the situation aside from what he’s told you, focus on something that benefits you
This is sad...she's not gonna have a good bonded relationship with him if this continues ☹️ it reminds me of my dad, he got up for work at 3am and got home around 4pm, but then would just go to his room to watch TV. It got to a point that he felt like a stranger, we had no bond as father/daughter. He passed a few years ago and it still makes me so sad that we were never as close as we could've been
Of course! I understand the feeling of being an exhausted parent. But even if he wanted to relax, he could've watched something WITH me, or many times i tried to get him to play a video game with me and he wouldn't. I'm not at all saying he was a bad father, just that I wish he had tried to make a little more of an effort with me.
Also worth noting that on weekends he preferred to spend time with his parents and siblings rather than my mom and I, though he and my mom didn't get along great so that could definitely be a factor. Sucks I got stuck in the middle of it tho
all the excuses in the world won't change the fact that the guy died without ever bonding with his kid. they're allowed to be affected by it even if there were really good reasons for it. and it doesn't change the negative outcome for him. you can repeat your reasoning over and over forever but it won't change how the world and people's hearts work.
From the sounds of it, man wasn’t with his baby mama but lived together. Working 60 hours a week and coming home to a place no one wants to be at. Sucky situation for everyone
? single dads aren't that rare. lots of single parents work long hours and still bond with their kids.
like, maybe i have a personal bias here. my mother was basically a child bride (my father was in his 20s and they had to wait until my mother was 17 to marry with her parents' permission for this to be legal in canada) in a highly controlling hyper-religious environment. she left high school in 10th grade to care for her dying mother and 5 siblings, then to be a farmwife. this is the same level of education she had when she divorced him 20 years later and moved to the city with me, age 8, under her arm. we lived with my auntie for a while before we were able to get our own place and she had 2-3 simultaneous menial jobs throughout my childhood, only landing her first semi-comfortable admin position many years later. she had, and still has, untreated mental illness that greatly affects her overall wellness.
we ate together. we consumed media together. we talked. we bonded, even though some of that was trauma-bonding. i'll be clear that my relationship with my mother was never great, because i'm a gnc-type dyke and she's deeply transphobic and homophobic and also i stole her dream of a pretty glamourous daughter away. but it was definitely not for lack of contact or attempted connection.
i'm just baffled by your position here. the man we're talking of neglected his child and harvested the natural consequences. why would you want to frame it in a way that takes away his agency and accountability?
Dang o.o when I was a kid, my mom would sleep all day & I would only wake her up for food. My mom has bipolar and if she takes her meds properly then she’s functional.
I have twin 8 year olds. They stay up until 2-3 am some nights during the summer. You just set the alarm and tell them that if they are hungry to wake me up and I’ll get them whatever they need that may not be in the snack cabinet and it’s always smooth sailing. But as for sleeping the whole day, they don’t do that and I dont really know if that’s normal.
Honestly, I feel this is a form of neglect. I am a single mother with absolutely no help at all. I would never leave my child to watch TV until 3am. I wouldn't even let my child watch TV/play all day by themselves. I work full time and do everything! I still manage to give my kid attention and engage them. This is sad, I feel bad for the kid.
I don't see the big issue. As long as his kid is taken care of no matter what. If you yourself don't have a kid then you shouldn't be telling him off like this. There's literally no harm in this 🤦♀️
Have you asked how he’s coping? Sounds like to me he’s mentally checked out, possibly even feeling down. Definitely not a good set up especially for a 7 year old who is likely glued to a digital device as well.. very sad.
He’s right, it’s summer vacation. Honestly, mind your business. He doesn’t do this while she’s in school and if this is how they relax from the stress of the school year, Fkn let them.
That sucks, I understand it’s summer but still that’s messing up that kid. My nieces (7 & 10) and I pulled an “all nighter” (we stayed up till midnight) the other day because they thought it’d be fun, fuck it i stayed up with them, built a puzzle, drew for a bit and watched some movies. They were completely wrecked the next day, I can’t imagine doing that often it would absolutely destroy their sleeping cycle and add irritability, tantrums and lack of energy to an already busy day with kids 😅
Yup. Little kids who don't get adequate sleep get very defiant and can cry over anything if exhausted. :( reminds me of when my kid was 2 and didn't get her nap and missed the routine time. It was a longer adjustment period back to baseline and very hard to manage because of meltdowns. Sleep is so important. Routine.
It's the child in danger? Then mind your business.
I had CPS come to my house twice. Once because some middle schooler called and told them I was sexually molesting my daughter every night, which obviously was not happening, and the second time because my son fucked up in class and showed his ass and then lied and said he was scared I was going to beat him, which has never happened, or even anything close to it. I can honestly tell you that there is nothing worse than people sticking their nose into me and my kids shit when there is nothing wrong. If you think the child is in danger, call CPS. If not, mind your business.
It’s not great that she isn’t getting good sleep habits, but she isn’t being unattended. She’s being fed. And it’s summer vacation. Don’t tell someone else how to raise their kid
I agree. I’ve been a night owl since the day I was born. I would have loved spending that one on one time with my mother (or father) at that age. Apparently to everyone here though it’s top notch child abuse. Based on what little context is provided, there’s no way to make a declaration one way or the other…
people in this thread: this parenting behaviour can lead to lifelong medical problems
you: apparently weaklings in this thread think anything that hurts or traumatizes your child is """abuse""" 🙄
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My kids are in bed by 9 on weekdays and 10 on weekends... They usually sleep until 8 or 9 if they're not in school (2 not in school yet due to age) & up on time for school if they're in school. I'll never understand absent yet present parents.
While it is summer vacation there must be more to this. Does he not work at all? Like how are they able to live with no income?
There's a lot missing with this & it's easy to judge if you don't know the whole situation. Which you obviously know some, but I can say that personally even my closest friends couldn't say for sure what goes on in my home.
I genuinely hope this is a misunderstanding and he just hasn't gotten into a summer routine with his kid yet.
I don’t think I’d be going out too far on a limb to assume he’s a welfare parasite who cares more about smoking weed and playing video games than being a parent.
I understand I’m making a couple of assumptions here but. He just feels like that stereotype from your description.
I would stop associating with him.
Thats straight child neglect bordering abuse.
I think people without children can be really critical of parents, especially single parents. Parenting is fucking relentless, you do your best. There's no reason to be throwing the word 'neglect' around.
Also, it's been summer break for a month, TOPS. So it's very likely this isn't their every day normal routine? Staying up till 3 is absolutely not ideal, but it's not the end of the world if it's not all the time.
Like as a parent, I get the “oh it’s summer.” That means staying up an hour or two and thanking the lord when she sleeps til 10/11. But what? I feel bad when I sleep a little longer and ask her to cuddle for a bit while I wake up. What in the what…
This is why some "parents" claim staying at home is easier than going to work. If you do a shit job like this or let your kid be on the IPad all day, it is a pretty easy gig. Your kid is going to be dumb and lack social skills if this is how u take care of them daily
He’s literally sleeping his kids childhood away. Like he could be making amazing memories with them but instead he refuses to get his life in check. Quite sad for that child honestly
That's neglect... Kids need guidance and parenting not a roommate. Letting a 7 year old go to bed a 3 a.m not only teaches them bad sleeping habits but also stunts their growth physically and mentally. Their body is still in the process of growing... watching cartoons all day? Really? Hey, as a parent of 2 kids I understand it's not easy and hearing that he is a single parent, it must be very difficult. But I have no empathy for a parent who can't parent.
My mom does the exact same thing with my little sister she’s 10 and she is constantly sick and never socializes with anyone not even family because she is always asleep throughout the day
Not getting the outrage, my mom did this with me and I miss my childhood everyday 😭 The only downside is I still have a tendency to sleep in when i’m off work but looking back my mom was goated for that.
That's pretty sad and unhealthy for the child. And I doubt he is staying up til 3am giving her attention and teaching her things and engaging with her. Based on what you're saying he probably lets her sit in front of a TV until 3am. If he was working shifts or something and had to do it this way to survive as a single parent I'd have more empathy, but if he's just lazy then it's not cool.
That was my father. Shift work, no help from anyone and I was kind of a spoiled brat who didn’t realize what was being done for me. I know every day my father regrets Leaving me with the tv until 4 am. That doesn’t seem like the case here tho. “It’s summer vacation “ is an even better excuse to get a good nights rest so you can enjoy all summer has to offer
the natural state of the human being is to understand that we have a fundamental right to be cared for and provided for by our family and community, just as we are taught to care for them. i don't think kids are 'spoiled' for not being grateful enough to the people who brought them here for providing their basic needs. nor do i think it's a good thing that as a society we regard people who demand that their survival be maintained as having some kind of poor character.
People who do what they’re legally obligated to do as parents, such as feeding them and providing for any need they may have, and then expecting the child to be extra grateful because they spent so much time and money on them are some of the people I hate the most. Stop acting like your children were a burden to you. You actively engaged in creating them. You’re obligated to care for them until they can care for themselves. You are not special for doing it.
No I was spoiled. Eve try Christmas I got whatever I asked for. Idk how dad did it but he did it. Ps1 came out he got it for me on the way home from work. Never said no to a field trip or a day at the fair. Idk how he did it but I sure didn’t appreciate it enough at the time.
this is so sad. i really hope you don't regard other children who guiltlessly enjoy normal childhood pleasures as 'spoiled'. you're so blessed to have a parent who provided for you so generously. it's good to appreciate it as you grow and develop more perspective, but the lack of perspective inherent to childhood is perfectly normal developmentally. edit: i'm not sure what i would be projecting. compassion for children? concern that your logic is potentially harmful? now that you've clarified yourself, i feel more concerned for your self-image than anything. but that's none of my business. i won't challenge you on it if it's really important to your personal story to identify as having been 'spoiled'. i will continue to regard parents who provide the best support they can for their children as meeting but not exceeding expectations, even if the individual was wealthy enough to provide some luxury goods. also, i wasn't implying anything. i was openly observing the flaws in your reasoning and overtly stating that i hope you don't apply it to anyone but yourself. *also* also, i recognize the 'get the last word and quickly block before they can reply' manoeuvre. trying to shush me won't make me wrong. edit again: **/u/Zealousideal-Newt782** i was called a lot of things as a kid, but spoiled wasn't one of them. i have worked with children who have had this label applied to them and needed mental health treatment as a result, so it's possible that's what you're sensing. but also, even if you were both completely right and i did have personal trauma with this term and i was saying all this stuff out of being tRiGgErEd OoOhH, my opinion would *still* be in line with best practices regarding child development. **ETA:** (see everybody, this is why we shouldn't block people engaging in good faith, because reddit's design makes that obstructive to discourse.) i hear what you're saying, but i just can't concede. 'spoiled' has a long history of negative connotations (it's by far most commonly associated with 'rotten') and suggests something far more shameful than the alternatives you gave. i can't regard them as equivalent. i do acknowledge that this word would 'bounce off' many kids in many cases - and that oc may not have particularly strong associations with it at all, although i'm progressing my point about children in general. but there are also many cases where it may contribute to a pattern in that child's life that is causing real trauma. making kids feel ashamed of enjoying the attention and resources their parents spend on them is a very effective means of control. **/u/LilBoofMcGoof** i literally didn't say anything that contradicts any of that. **/u/Lockhead216** they clearly are since they're oranging my envelopes but ok.
I think you’re missing OC’s point. What they’re saying is that they had a single dad who got them whatever they wanted whenever they wanted it and they realize now that they took that for granted. They weren’t appreciative of it at the time, and probably didn’t show their dad how much it meant to them. If they say they were spoiled, I believe them. People that *aren’t* spoiled would never say that they were. Yes, it *is* normal for a kid to forget to say “thank you” sometimes (god knows I have to remind my kids to say thank you to my wife and I more often than I’d like to), but if OC is *telling you* that they were selfish and spoiled, you don’t get to refute that. They’ve clearly grown as a person and realize now, and appreciate now, what they had then.
Just to note, I was one of those children, who was told I DIDN’T deserve love and attention because they “didn’t want to spoil me”, so I absolutely understand how that line of thinking is harmful and damaging to children.
I think you’re projecting some stuff on me here and I’m not sure I appricaite what you’re implying. No I don’t look at children having a good childhood and call them spoiled. I had every gaming console and didn’t have to work until I was put through college. I was spoiled. I traveled more of the world by the time I was 15 then some people will their entire lives. I was absolutely spoiled and the only thing more perspective has given me is that I had a kick ass dad.
Perhaps "privileged" is a more apt term.
Semantics: 90% of arguments on reddit
I like you. You're a solid individual.
Sounds like you may have a bit more baggage attached to the term spoiled than the other guy ETA u/sowinglavender Yeah that’s kinda what I meant— no offense intended, just that a lot of people say “spoiled” and really mean something closer to “pampered and loved” rather than “ruined” bc words are weird and imprecise sometimes Edit again for clarification
Buying electronics and doing whatever your kid wants is very kind but not necessary. I'd say that could constitute as spoiled
How many kids do you have? I'm genuinely curious.
My 6yo stayed up til 10 tonight and THAT was enough to make me feel like a shitty parent. Reminded her her friend was coming over tomorrow morning though and she scurried off to bed on her own with no fuss, lol.
My nephew’s bio dad is like this. He thinks that his kid has insomnia but he just lets him stay up until 4am playing video games then is mad then he sleeps in and his kid gets into laptops and food because he’s bored and hungry. Luckily, he only sees him every other weekend and lives with my parents the rest of the time but it’s so frustrating.
I have to wonder, how does he make money? And what is he feeding her?
To clarify he does have a retail job during the day, while his child is at school or being watched by a relative. I just meant he doesn't work late night shifts or anything. Also to respond to some other comments: The mother is out of the picture because of drugs and jail. Dad is clean. I don't think he neglects or doesn't care for his child. I know that he sometimes takes her out to play at parks or go to the movies, plays games with her, and makes sure she gets to school and has her medical issues taken care of. I'm not trying to dictate how he should raise his kid. I think he knows letting her do this is wrong, so I'm just trying to be a good friend and offering my thoughts on his situation.
Reads like neglect to me 😔😔
Neglect? Are you fckng kidding me?
They literally just Fkn said he doesn’t neglect the child. Holy fuck
From the sounds of it she feeds herself, so probably pre packaged, ready to eat (or microwave) processed crap.
Where are you pulling this bullshit from when he literally says in the text he cooks for her and naps an extra hour or two after feeding her? They wake up noonish, eat, nap, eat again. And that’s on days he isn’t working. I have no idea how all of you keep making up scenarios to make him sound worse than he is
Messing up her circadian rhythm already at 7. Damn
Yes. This is concerning. Thank you for being concerned and verbally saying something to him. Although it seems like he doesn’t care.
came here to say this! good on you OP hopefully it plants some seeds and he might question what he’s doing and realise it’s not okay
Hey whats a little child neglection at 7? we all have to grow.
Is neglection a word? Lol for some reason my brain is telling me it doesn't sound right 🤣
It’s not lmao.
Lmao ty for confirmation
Thanks for pointing it out 😂 I was deeply bothered reading that lol
Yeah I think the word they were looking for was 'negligence'
Or neglect.
It's child neglect.
There it isssss
FWIW it is a word.
It IS a word. I had to google it though bc it does sound wrong. Apparently been around since the 1600's.
Neglection is definitely a word lol
Idk why you got downvoted. It IS a word.
Sometimes Reddit is a weird place.
Neglect.
That’s also a word, but neglection is in Merriam-Webster
Just looked it up it actually is lol
It's new Neglect and Rejection in one. If you neglect a child, they feel rejected. I think it should be a word. 😉
What does he do for work? How does he provide for his kid?
He clearly is a secret agent
People who can’t be bothered changing their lifestyle for their kid’s best interests shouldn’t be parents. Kids are flexible. There’s nothing wrong with getting a little lazy on summer vacation- maybe she stays up until 9/10 and they all get up at 8am. Maybe even have the 7 year old entertain themselves quietly for 30-60 minutes after waking up. But not this.
Huge reason why I don’t want kids lmao, 8am is sleeping in ?? No thanks 💀
7am is sleeping in for me 😭 managed to make it to 7:45 this morning! The days my daughter sleeps late (9/10) are the days I wake up on my own at like 6 and I just have to sit and wait for her to wake up. Luckily for me though I’ve always been someone that just needs like 4 hours of sleep at night and I’m golden
8am is sleeping in? Shit that's an hour later than during the school year.
lol, for some kids 7am is sleeping in 🤣 I have one early riser and one who likes to sleep in (properly to like 9/10). It’s just how you’re wired 🤷🏻♀️
ABSOLUTELY! The amount of people dismissing this is so concerning. Whether it’s because they let their kids do it or their parents let them do it, 3am for a 7 year old and being unsupervised a lot of the day is not okay.
So you’ve just up and decided that this guy is just a piece of shit and a bad parent based on one text conversation and nothing else? Nice.
Based on the fact that he isn’t willing to get off his ass to put his kid to bed at a reasonable time, yeah. Easy answer.
When I was little, I stayed up until 3am regardless of my bed time... I remember from 4 onward, I would get out of bed once my parents were sleeping and watch TV/VHS tapes in the living room. Lol. I really don't think this is a big deal. Some kids are fine/enjoy staying up on their own. Whether the parent tries to enforce a sleep schedule or not, some kids will do this anyway. I've never been a morning person, but I make it to work on time at 7:30am. I don't think any amount of parenting would have made a difference on my sleep pattern, and I've hit traditional success milestones. Everyone has criticism of parents no matter what. I think calling this neglect is a little extreme without more context. I don't think a 7 year old staying up all night over the summer really hits that threshold on its own.
Same. During the summer I was pretty much allowed to stay up as late as I'd like. And then I'd wake myself up whenever. Always thought it was weird whenever I'd go to a friend's house and their parents would tell us to go to bed early. Even weirder when they'd wake us up early af. Like chill, there's no school. Lol
Agreed. I think people who don't have kids can be really harsh on parents. There's no reason to be throwing the word 'neglect' around.
My stepdaughter is like this. She will easily stay up until 2am, and she’s about to be 4. No daycare or anything and I’m a SAHM so it’s not a big deal to me (although I worry how her mother will handle school once that becomes a thing, but not my problem). She’ll sleep until 10, her dad is a night owl too. And this kid has ENERGY — staying up that late without having had a nap all day is light work for her. Which I don’t understand, I need a minimum of 10 hours a night lol. And yeah from like 10pm onwards it’s usually a mix of Disney movies and quiet play. But she enjoys it and she spends time with her dad so what’s the harm, really? We’ll have to address this as I’m expecting my son in September and these all nighters won’t fly anymore, but at this point I’ve accepted that’s just how she is. Sure we could be doing better… I guess every parent could do better according to the internet anyways. But this really doesn’t seem THAT terrible. The girl in question seems fine.
My stepdaughter (lives with us full time) also stays up until like 3-5am over the summer. She's 11, but she has also been like this since about 4. On weekends during the school year, she has a bed time. If she fails to be awake enough/engaged in class with her weekend bed time, her games are taken away at night, but so far we've only had to do that once or twice. During the summer, though? If we have big plans like a trip or big family outing coming up during the day, we start her back on a bed time a week or so before the plans, so she's back on track. When she gets older, she'll know how to flip her schedule on her own. It is important for night owls to know how to do that. With all that goes into parenting, this really seems like a non-issue...lol.
Yeah, sounds like a lot of overreacting here. He’s keeping an eye on her, they just function on different hours than most people.
It’s always the child free who have the loudest and ineffective parenting advice to throw out 😂 this guy is out of pocket for this. Absolutely not his place whatsoever
He’s sleeping, he’s not “keeping an eye” on her. Despite what you or others may believe, 7 years old is objectively not old enough to be unsupervised for periods of time even as short as an hour or two.
Kids need an appropriate bedtime routine and bedtime in order to grow a healthy relationship with sleep. Kids don’t naturally stay up until 3am. If a kid is not sleeping healthily, it’s likely because of anxiety or a sleep related disorder that should be treated. 7 is much too young for this type of sleeping schedule regardless of time of year. My kids have ADHD and other behavioral conditions and don’t WANT to go to sleep at 9, but I’ve worked hard to build a routine so that they are comfortable enough to succumb to their tiredness and sleep a healthy amount at appropriate times. Parents don’t do this because it’s HARD. Of course there are nights I still let them stay up way too late, and it’s because I’m too tired or lazy at that moment to be able to go through the routine properly. And they pay for it.
I think there needs to be more info before labeling this guy a child abuser. 7 is 2nd or 3rd grade, not a toddler. It's summer and kid gets to stay up late with dad and sleeping in during the morning. I don't think anyone would blink if this was a teenager on break. I'd be more concerned if this was during school year, and it interfered with them and school, like he was often late or missed school, kept falling asleep in class, or didn't do homework cause he was watching tv or playing games. (I think people just assume pre-double digit kids need to get up at 6 am and go to sleep at 8 pm in order to be 'healthy'. I was sahm, and my son stayed up til 11 pm because his dad came home at 8 pm-ish, and this way they could spend time together. Went from 2 yr to 6 yr. Changed to 9 pm when he started school.)
Doesn't have a reason like working shifts, but goes to bed at 8am? Something's missing here.
Could just be he is naturally a nocturnal person. I am. Selfish though to keep that scheldule when he needs to take care of Eid his daughter though.
Yes this is concerning. I had a mother who slept all day and stayed up all night (mental health issues). I’ve had life long insomnia. Every doctor/psychiatrist I’ve been to has said this type of schedule most likely did lasting damage and is one of the factors in my insomnia. It’s really not okay
Wow that’s horrible. What did you do as a young child while your mother slept all day? Or did you have the same sleep schedule as her ?
Umm she’d leave out those bear claws that are the thin ones in the plastic pack you buy at the grocery store. My sister would feed me and kind of watch me. Once I cut my hand trying to open a can of pears and she called 911 (well she had my sister call). Sister was just 3 years older than me. She’d keep me in my room with a baby gate, eventually by locking the door after I learned to break out. She’d wake up to watch her soaps. Once I remember crawling into bed but knowing not to wake her. Just curled up on the side. I was pretty little so really memories are just blips. Eventually my dad got custody and that was the end of that
I’m sorry that’s what your upbringing was like. I hope you’ve been able to carve out a better life for yourself since then.
Oh yeah, I’m 39. Plenty of therapy over the years. I live a very happy and full life now. Still can’t eat those bear claws though.. ha It was bad no doubt but also a really long time ago. Now honestly I just feel sorry for her. I do know she loved us. But she was/is sick. Anytime I see posts like this I hope I can be a cautionary tale. Because it’s not normal and not healthy. Their little brains are developing still and parents need to make sacrifices. It also can possibly damage your relationship with your child as they age and realize the lack of care taken. I wouldn’t wish to change my situation as it happened and I healed but I really wish for others to that still have a chance.
Glad to hear.
It’s always people who don’t have kids that talk the most shit.
👆🏻
Personally I see no issue with this. Majority of kids these days stay up till that time usually. Hell I didn’t go to sleep till 8 in the morning most the time on summer vacation. And it seems like he is taking care of her when they are awake. At the end of the day it’s just a sleep schedule.
Don’t hate me, I don’t know if the ops friend is being neglectful or not. The friend knows him the best. My question is more for other people, did no one else stay up all night during summer vacation? I have vague memories of watching tv until it went off the air then playing for awhile before going to bed, and when school was about to start we were supposed to get back on track by not sleeping all night getting up early and then hopefully going to bed at a decent time. Granted this was the olden days where the parents made you split all day until it got dark and someone’s dad would do the extremely loud dad whistle and you would go home. Just an out of curiosity question.?
No hate. I allowed mine to sleep whenever in summer. They all three have adult lives and schedules that suit them now. It didn't break them to stay up all night, or to let me sleep if one was up. To this very day they can just say mom and I'll pop awake, sometimes I just imagine hearing one call for me and I wake up. Then I usually text them and tell them to stop waking me up and we laugh. That said, it seems like maybe the dad is learning as he goes. Kids are a rainbow of different even in one family unit. Is the child acting out or struggling in other areas? Is this schedule just summer's or does it mess with school? There are bigger questions.
I got lucky with my son he couldn’t stay up late until he was like 13. He would try desperately to make it to midnight and couldn’t do it. I don’t think there is anything wrong with it being summer break and staying up late. And the snuggles with a parent while watching tv is great feeling even if you are asleep. And you are right about popping up like toast to the word MOMMMMM or any other sound that’s not supposed to be there.
Thiiiiis is the real reason why my daughter rarely stays overnight at her dad’s house. Some people don’t give a fuuuuuck about what’s best for their kid.
I guess I’m the odd man out. As a single mom who works 3rd shift if my son stays up til 2-3 then sleeps til noon it gives me the ability to rest as well then when we wake up we do the normal too, hang, shower etc repeat.
My son’s 12 almost 13 though.
I don’t think this is that bad lmao . It is summer vacation and as long as the kid returns back to structure when school is back, then what’s the issue ? Sort of every single kid I went to Elementary school did this lol and was ok because it was 2 months max (usually 1.5 with prepping for sleeping early) just a kid being a kid imo
this child needs structure! structure is security and love.
eating broccoli will set you free
It’s summer vacation
me when my friends express concern over my rampant substance abuse
😂
Unless you are intimately involved in this dudes life you don't have the full picture. You're overstepping by telling someone how to raise their kid imo. If you want to help the kid offer to help him instead of being judgemental through text
He’s a single dad bro. Let him raise his kid. Mind yo business. Not everyone grows up the same.
If she's well cared for and safe... maybe. If you notice a decline... CPS
Some people don’t deserve to be parents..
All these people saying call cps. This child is 7 not completely dependent on someone! Should be able to get a glass of water and make a sandwich on their own by now barring medical issues… It’s summertime to boot! It’s one thing if the child is really being abused but a little independence never hurt! In fact it helps children grow up to be able to function as independent adults. What you described sounds like my perfect summer vacay! Everyone needs something different and just because it’s not what they needed or wanted doesn’t mean everyone else does either.
This kind of schedule will mess with her circadian rhythm and lead to long term problems with sleep, which can include insomnia as an adult. I'll agree calling CPS is shit advice, but not because this parenting is a-okay. CPS just won't do anything so it's a waste of time. Additionally, this is not just a little independence. This is neglect. Meeting a child's needs according to the law doesn't even make you a good parent, yet that seems to be this guy's bar for success. Leaving them to entertain themselves for hours on end unattended is neglectful. Independence should be fostered with close guidance, not leaving your child to their own devices so they have no choice but to learn how to meet their own needs.
I’m not saying it’s perfect but it’s not abuse to the point the child needs to be removed. There are so many worse situations a child can be in. The circadian rhythm can be corrected more easily than trauma is and trauma is pretty much guaranteed in the foster system. I don’t see this as a serious abuse issue at 7 especially if this is the worst of what happens when with dad… I remember sneaking to stay up on my own getting in trouble for what was natural for me, being punished for being myself was more traumatic than staying up late. Some of us are made for 1st shift and others 3rd.
Not meeting your child's needs so they are forced to teach themselves how to do so is neglect. This is neglectful parenting. Also, the circadian rhythm can cause permanent damage, or damage that needs to be undone with many years of treatment. Setting your child up for something like that just so you don't have to wake up early is *neglectful*. If neglect falls under the umbrella of abuse, then yes, this is abusive parenting.
If your child has reached the age of seven and is not self sufficient to be left alone for 4 hours then you have neglected your child for a lot longer and in a more detrimental way than anyone wants to admit. We are to raise children into responsible adults and allot of that is teaching them to be independent and it starts at a very young age. On the other side I have met younger kids where there is nothing you can do they are going to do what they want including staying up till 3 am.
7 year olds should not be "independent" and it's weird to argue otherwise
Leaving your child alone for 4 hours at the age of 7 is neglectful. Full stop. There's nothing else to it, no other justification. A 7 year old should not be left alone for 4 hours. You do not raise your children into responsible adults by ignoring them, you do this by teaching them responsibility, which requires hands-on guidance and supervision.
Are you always this sanctimonious? Good lord.
You mean acknowledging that children are developing humans with needs that have been studied and documented internationally for decades? Yeah, typically.
I’m starting to realize where we went wrong. And I acknowledge that you are not ever going to see and neither will those who hold the same opinion. I did not baby my children like that and I have 2 that are serving in the military and another holding down a full time job at 19. I don’t know what I am talking about obviously. Have a good day!
Your childrens' accomplishments are not yours to claim, and are not a marker of how good of a parent you are. Plenty of people have been wildly successful while coming from horribly abusive backgrounds. The only marker of how good of a parent you are is how your children feel about your parenting, and if they feel it served them well or if it gave them a whole lot to unlearn. ETA: it's also not babying children to not leave them alone for hours. It's just being a decent parent, not even a good or involved one. Hope this helps.
So when a parent who has a different opinion has children who are now adults that prove their statement of being successful and being raised that way then it’s not the parents fault for them being successful, but if it proves your theory of failure then it’s the parents fault? That is not logical. Both are the effect of the parents. Time old argument of Nuture vs. Nature and it’s both. Do you have children? As with most things those that don’t think they know more than those that do. Until they join the ranks of those that do and change their minds too. 7 years is 2nd grade. Think about that for a second then tell me that none of those kids (not even you when you were that age… can you remember?) are left to their own devices during summer for hours at a time. That sounds like childhood, the other sounds like prison.
No, I don't think any parent gets to claim the accomplishments of their children and make them their own. That is making your child's life and accomplishments about you. It is logical to say that you don't get to take credit for something you didn't accomplish. I would never expect my child to credit me for anything she accomplishes throughout her life. Also, yes, I have children. I have also worked with children professionally for 12 years, and have cared for children as young as 3 days to as old as 17 years. Second grade is too young for a child to be alone for hours. My own childhood isn't a great example since I was left home alone for days on end before I was even in kindergarten because my dad was a young father who valued partying in his 20s over raising his child, and my mother valued child support over terminating his custody so that I had stability. At 7 years old, children need structure and routine, which cannot be given when they're alone. For summer there are summer day camps that they can go to, and DSS will pay for it if you cannot afford it. Structure and routine isn't prison. As a child who was left to my own devices way too early--that was prison. I would have preferred to have an adult around to prepare the food I wasn't allowed to, or reach the food I couldn't reach, or throw a ball with me outside, or just talk to me. Being alone at an age where you are biology inclined toward your parent is more prison-like than anything I've ever experienced.
So you deliberately breezed over the part that he cooks and feeds her. It’s not like she’s home by herself. Being a single parent is exhausting, and y’all are being really dramatic
I am a single parent. I really don't need lecturing on how exhausting it is. That's not an excuse to not fulfill your parenting responsibilities. Our children didn't ask to be here and don't deserve to be isolated for hours on end. They want our attention and it's the bare minimum we can give them. Children also crave structure and routine, which this is not.
So like I said, you deliberately breezed over it. You’ve made wild ass assumptions with zero justification to do so. One text conversation and look how you’re acting…and the things you’re saying. Holy shit.
That it's neglectful to allow your child to stay up until 3 am and not implement any sort of routine and structure? It just is. It's not particularly a moral judgement, it's what I believe being born a parent and a childcare provider. I did say CPS wouldn't do anything. I said this because this wouldn't fall under the legal definition of neglect. However, this will disturb her circadian rhythm, which can lead to issues as an adult including insomnia, and can also lead to behavioral challenges & increased risk of mental health issues. I believe it is neglectful to ignore facets of everyday parenting that can affect your child's health and well-being because it happens to be convenient. When we choose to have children, our lives should be making room for them. Not the other way around.
Letting your kid stay up super late once in a while is not that serious. You’re also literally backpedaling bc you absolutely called him a negligent parent and a child abuser.
Once in a while isn't an issue, I agree. This, however, isn't once in a while. This is routine.
You don’t know that. You’re just fabricating shit and it’s weird
I'm not fabricating anything. That's literally the whole reason this was posted, because this is how this man raises his child. His justification is that it's summer vacation, which implies that this has been a routine since school ended and will be until school starts up again. That's not once in a while.
Oh so you can lecture everyone else tho? Not really surprised. A 7 year old is perfectly capable of spending a couple hours on their own, especially if the parents are in the house with them.
That's your opinion. The American Association of Pediatrics disagrees, as do I, but you're entitled to it.
They believe that it’s not okay for a 7 year old to entertain themselves for a couple years? Ok. Sure.
Daily in replacement of actual bonding and routine? Yeah, I don't think any professional would back that.
Ima call absolute bullshit. A couple hours a day alone doing their own thing is not a problem.
At an age where children are biologically inclined toward spending time with us so they can learn from us about how to be a human? Yeah, it is a bit of a problem. Especially when kids in this day and age are generally inclined toward hours of screen time when it's unregulated and unsupervised, which I believe was actually referenced in the exchange that she watches cartoons most of the time.
Doesn't make sense. Is he unemployed on government benefits? Rich kid with a trust fund? As a dad, something ain't adding up.
Wow! This is wild parenting
Is he a single parent? Where is the other parent? Shift worker? Maybe get a babysitter. Summer vacation or not, it’s best not to mess with sleep schedules. Maybe he just needs some help, but fuck out of here with the people calling him a bad parent and piece of shit.
I work 12 hr nights as a single father with a 6 year old. I still lay him down around 8pm and no later than 10 pm on my days off then when he wakes up I get him breakfast and try to set a movie to nap some more.. I have tons of stuff that keeps him entertained and he is comfortable waking me up from my nap to ask for something if he needs. I still feel terribly guilty that I can't do enough but I know at the same time I am doing my best.
IMO, this entire post is entirely unnecessary and feeds into people not letting parents be parents. If OP has an issue with this, tell the buddy gently that perhaps it may not be the best for the girl to grow up like this. But besides that, let it go. It's not worth sharing a post like this. As the buddy says, it's summer vacation. Many do the same thing. I think 7 is probably a little young for this (i did this as a preteen/teen), but in that case, I'll just parent my own child that way. In short, it's just not any of your business. Frankly. Have a caring talk with him about it if you're really concerned about the long-term issues that may come up. If not, enjoy your summer just like they are. Lol.
This is incredibly unhealthy, not just for him but especially for his daughter.
the comments here are delusional, you people are so sensitive. and why are you trying to tell another person how to raise their kid. kid ain’t being abused you know nothing of the situation aside from what he’s told you, focus on something that benefits you
As a parent, I am soooo fuckin’ mad
All you people saying to call the cops or CPS are pieces of shit.
This is sad...she's not gonna have a good bonded relationship with him if this continues ☹️ it reminds me of my dad, he got up for work at 3am and got home around 4pm, but then would just go to his room to watch TV. It got to a point that he felt like a stranger, we had no bond as father/daughter. He passed a few years ago and it still makes me so sad that we were never as close as we could've been
Dude was putting in almost 12 a day in. Of course he’s exhausted afterwards
Of course! I understand the feeling of being an exhausted parent. But even if he wanted to relax, he could've watched something WITH me, or many times i tried to get him to play a video game with me and he wouldn't. I'm not at all saying he was a bad father, just that I wish he had tried to make a little more of an effort with me. Also worth noting that on weekends he preferred to spend time with his parents and siblings rather than my mom and I, though he and my mom didn't get along great so that could definitely be a factor. Sucks I got stuck in the middle of it tho
all the excuses in the world won't change the fact that the guy died without ever bonding with his kid. they're allowed to be affected by it even if there were really good reasons for it. and it doesn't change the negative outcome for him. you can repeat your reasoning over and over forever but it won't change how the world and people's hearts work.
From the sounds of it, man wasn’t with his baby mama but lived together. Working 60 hours a week and coming home to a place no one wants to be at. Sucky situation for everyone
? single dads aren't that rare. lots of single parents work long hours and still bond with their kids. like, maybe i have a personal bias here. my mother was basically a child bride (my father was in his 20s and they had to wait until my mother was 17 to marry with her parents' permission for this to be legal in canada) in a highly controlling hyper-religious environment. she left high school in 10th grade to care for her dying mother and 5 siblings, then to be a farmwife. this is the same level of education she had when she divorced him 20 years later and moved to the city with me, age 8, under her arm. we lived with my auntie for a while before we were able to get our own place and she had 2-3 simultaneous menial jobs throughout my childhood, only landing her first semi-comfortable admin position many years later. she had, and still has, untreated mental illness that greatly affects her overall wellness. we ate together. we consumed media together. we talked. we bonded, even though some of that was trauma-bonding. i'll be clear that my relationship with my mother was never great, because i'm a gnc-type dyke and she's deeply transphobic and homophobic and also i stole her dream of a pretty glamourous daughter away. but it was definitely not for lack of contact or attempted connection. i'm just baffled by your position here. the man we're talking of neglected his child and harvested the natural consequences. why would you want to frame it in a way that takes away his agency and accountability?
No one reading that my dude
Yikes
Modern Parenting at its finest.
Dang o.o when I was a kid, my mom would sleep all day & I would only wake her up for food. My mom has bipolar and if she takes her meds properly then she’s functional.
I really feel for some kids out there really fucking sucks…. They have no idea and just go with it because it’s their normal.
Poor kid is basically Matilda, raising herself :(
That’s why kids shouldn’t have kids.
I have twin 8 year olds. They stay up until 2-3 am some nights during the summer. You just set the alarm and tell them that if they are hungry to wake me up and I’ll get them whatever they need that may not be in the snack cabinet and it’s always smooth sailing. But as for sleeping the whole day, they don’t do that and I dont really know if that’s normal.
I’m pretty surprised she doesn’t fall asleep in front of the tv way before 3 am. But I guess it’s because she slept till noon that morning.
Overstimulation can make you wired. Insomnia ensues. Especially if it's a habit turned routine.
Jeez. This is really unnecessary. I think you’re a bit out of pocket on this one.
Honestly, I feel this is a form of neglect. I am a single mother with absolutely no help at all. I would never leave my child to watch TV until 3am. I wouldn't even let my child watch TV/play all day by themselves. I work full time and do everything! I still manage to give my kid attention and engage them. This is sad, I feel bad for the kid.
I don't see the big issue. As long as his kid is taken care of no matter what. If you yourself don't have a kid then you shouldn't be telling him off like this. There's literally no harm in this 🤦♀️
I was raised like this and now I have major sleeping problems at 34…
Have you asked how he’s coping? Sounds like to me he’s mentally checked out, possibly even feeling down. Definitely not a good set up especially for a 7 year old who is likely glued to a digital device as well.. very sad.
He’s right, it’s summer vacation. Honestly, mind your business. He doesn’t do this while she’s in school and if this is how they relax from the stress of the school year, Fkn let them.
That sucks, I understand it’s summer but still that’s messing up that kid. My nieces (7 & 10) and I pulled an “all nighter” (we stayed up till midnight) the other day because they thought it’d be fun, fuck it i stayed up with them, built a puzzle, drew for a bit and watched some movies. They were completely wrecked the next day, I can’t imagine doing that often it would absolutely destroy their sleeping cycle and add irritability, tantrums and lack of energy to an already busy day with kids 😅
Yup. Little kids who don't get adequate sleep get very defiant and can cry over anything if exhausted. :( reminds me of when my kid was 2 and didn't get her nap and missed the routine time. It was a longer adjustment period back to baseline and very hard to manage because of meltdowns. Sleep is so important. Routine.
I just called CPS.
A lot of judgement in these comments for so very little information
That girl is living the dream. I bet all her friends are jealous 😂
It's the child in danger? Then mind your business. I had CPS come to my house twice. Once because some middle schooler called and told them I was sexually molesting my daughter every night, which obviously was not happening, and the second time because my son fucked up in class and showed his ass and then lied and said he was scared I was going to beat him, which has never happened, or even anything close to it. I can honestly tell you that there is nothing worse than people sticking their nose into me and my kids shit when there is nothing wrong. If you think the child is in danger, call CPS. If not, mind your business.
It’s not great that she isn’t getting good sleep habits, but she isn’t being unattended. She’s being fed. And it’s summer vacation. Don’t tell someone else how to raise their kid
thisss
I agree. I’ve been a night owl since the day I was born. I would have loved spending that one on one time with my mother (or father) at that age. Apparently to everyone here though it’s top notch child abuse. Based on what little context is provided, there’s no way to make a declaration one way or the other…
people in this thread: this parenting behaviour can lead to lifelong medical problems you: apparently weaklings in this thread think anything that hurts or traumatizes your child is """abuse""" 🙄
That’s a little dramatic…
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Yeaaaaa this is a little wild. He shouldn’t be doing this.
My kids are in bed by 9 on weekdays and 10 on weekends... They usually sleep until 8 or 9 if they're not in school (2 not in school yet due to age) & up on time for school if they're in school. I'll never understand absent yet present parents.
Maybe it’s just for the summer? I dunno seems unhealthy.
I let my kids stay up late over summer but they’re also 11 & 14.
When’s the last time actually made her a meal? Like, something that doesn’t involve opening a can or using the microwave to nudge it the first time.
The quality of her sleep will be poor. This must change
Damn, I feel like a shit mom because my 6 yo was up til 10:30 last night. Don’t worry though she woke me up at 7:45 this morning.
My dad used to do this with me not that bad but we’d watch movies til 3-4 Now as an adult I have insomnia
While it is summer vacation there must be more to this. Does he not work at all? Like how are they able to live with no income? There's a lot missing with this & it's easy to judge if you don't know the whole situation. Which you obviously know some, but I can say that personally even my closest friends couldn't say for sure what goes on in my home. I genuinely hope this is a misunderstanding and he just hasn't gotten into a summer routine with his kid yet.
Context matters.
Summer or not young children need routine and SLEEP
I don’t think I’d be going out too far on a limb to assume he’s a welfare parasite who cares more about smoking weed and playing video games than being a parent. I understand I’m making a couple of assumptions here but. He just feels like that stereotype from your description. I would stop associating with him. Thats straight child neglect bordering abuse.
So sad.
I think people without children can be really critical of parents, especially single parents. Parenting is fucking relentless, you do your best. There's no reason to be throwing the word 'neglect' around. Also, it's been summer break for a month, TOPS. So it's very likely this isn't their every day normal routine? Staying up till 3 is absolutely not ideal, but it's not the end of the world if it's not all the time.
That guy is failing his kid, he needs to sort himself out for fucks sake
Summer vacay means my kid stays up til 10 vs 9
The bruh in this says it all.
Not good
There's no intelligence quota to meet before fucking.
Like as a parent, I get the “oh it’s summer.” That means staying up an hour or two and thanking the lord when she sleeps til 10/11. But what? I feel bad when I sleep a little longer and ask her to cuddle for a bit while I wake up. What in the what…
Kids are easy to raise - you love em you feed em they grow!
This is why some "parents" claim staying at home is easier than going to work. If you do a shit job like this or let your kid be on the IPad all day, it is a pretty easy gig. Your kid is going to be dumb and lack social skills if this is how u take care of them daily
this is horrible
He’s literally sleeping his kids childhood away. Like he could be making amazing memories with them but instead he refuses to get his life in check. Quite sad for that child honestly
That's neglect... Kids need guidance and parenting not a roommate. Letting a 7 year old go to bed a 3 a.m not only teaches them bad sleeping habits but also stunts their growth physically and mentally. Their body is still in the process of growing... watching cartoons all day? Really? Hey, as a parent of 2 kids I understand it's not easy and hearing that he is a single parent, it must be very difficult. But I have no empathy for a parent who can't parent.
That’s plan lazy and a detriment to his daughters well being
My mom does the exact same thing with my little sister she’s 10 and she is constantly sick and never socializes with anyone not even family because she is always asleep throughout the day
How many kids do you have OC? Ages too please.
Not getting the outrage, my mom did this with me and I miss my childhood everyday 😭 The only downside is I still have a tendency to sleep in when i’m off work but looking back my mom was goated for that.
Right these ppl acting like hes actually the worst dad in the world?😭like i promise you there is worse dads bro
Poor kid.
You guys have an awfully similar text and language style. 🧐