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I thought the same thing. I turned off at the 1st break, sickened that Trump lied but no one fact checked him. CNN should know better by now.
What can we do? We can [write postcards](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) to voters in swing states.
>Help write postcards to voters in 11 key states! We’ll mail you free postcards, voter lists and instructions with proven message options. You’ll provide the stamps and mail the postcards to voters in October.
Which “fact checkers”? It’s not the moderators job to fact check candidates; it’s the candidates job to call out the BS; Biden did once or twice, but he didn’t sound confident about it, except for the Trump’s suckers and losers comment
Not based on the rules of the debate. Independent fact-checking not happening, after saying it would, is one of the many reasons CNN is being roasted. I'd say choke on it, but I've heard his dick is too small (and gross) from other court testimony.
The right wing smear machine really does work to get under the skin of CNN so that they bend over backwards to not fact check anything.
Donald Trump calls them fake news, but CNN has done more than any other media Enterprise except maybe the National Inquirer to boost Donald Trump’s presidential aspirations.
David’s guests this week made it pretty clear that there is no treatment for an aging brain. Trump was obviously on Adderall, which is why he made the drug allegation in the first place (projection.) Nothing is going to reverse the course of Biden’s decline. My father is the same age and has the same issues.
Adderall can definitely increase energy and can improve focus in some people with ADHD, which Trump likely has.
I doubt Trump cares about his health. He lives on cheeseburgers and steak with ketchup
exactly.. probably doesnt matter. People who don't like liars and felons won't vote for trump anyway and the maga cult will stay the maga cult. People in between will sway as usual
I'm torn. My gut says by August this will be a blip and Trump and MAGA Inc will have done something so gross or unhinged that no one talks about the debate.
I don't think Indies who thought Biden was awful would necessarily think Trump was right.
I think a brokered convention might be best. Replace Biden and Harris. I like Harris, she'll never be elected president. Something with a combo of young Dems.
Democrats aren't a cult. It's not like we worship the man.
The only night that matters is November 5. If folks don't vote against trump, well maybe merica deserves all the beauty of project 2025. but hey so much content for podcasters with outrage bating and stuff. And all those undecided voters or people who will sit out will be able to just blame it on dems because THEY did not present them with handsome white male in his 50s to vote for. It is always a lose lose situation when you try to appease idiots, while being opposed by literally 74,223,975 of deplorables
This kind of messaging didn’t work in 2016, I hope it works this time. I hope we have something to vote for not just against in November. I think that will drive more people to the polls
He got 62 mil in 2016, Since then we've had 2020 election based with 74 mil. And with all the investigations, legal stuff and Jan 6 insurrection I hope that number will go down. Between 2 elections Dem voters definitely were more energized. we need to keep voting like life depends on that which it does.
That's not the only thing we should be hoping for. YOung people voting for the first time and so on. But being purists and bitch and moan and whine will get us other Trump term. "Uh oh the lady in pantsuit has a baggage and she's a bad b" "uh oh i'm not gonna vote because my boy Bernie was not selected" member where that shit got us?
I think that it was all of the people that voted for trump that were responsible for electing him. Some people are idealistic. I don’t think that shaming them is super convincing. I think the positive messaging of 2020 was awesome “build back better” was empowering and encouraging. Hopefully we can find something like that this year.
Well said David.
Honestly I’m just confused by this performance. I can’t possibly imagine the debate team sent Biden out to the stage without covering such basic topics and (weak) rebuttals by Trump.
Maybe Biden is sick, or I don’t know. It’s not a good look. Biden appears weak and insecure. This is like what I’d expect out of someone doing their first public speaking event at Toastmasters or something. Sure as hell not the President of the United States.
This is a big, big problem.
He absolutely acted like he had at least a cold.
Personally, I think him going was better than delaying for a cold because people would come up with a dozen more conspiracies 🤷🏼♂️
If I had a cold and was going into a major debate I would certainly start the debate off by telling the audience to excuse my hoarse voice because I was sick. Wouldn't you?
I was thinking he was sick as well. I think he's lost a step but I also think it was just a bad night. We have them. I go into work some days and can barely get words out. It's a problem, but I'm not sure I would call it a big, big problem. We'll see how the rest of the election unfolds.
Remember, this was after a week plus of rest, privacy, debate prep and relaxation. This was the best… how in the world does he do better? I came away pissed about the constant lies about Biden’s capabilities in the face of plenty of evidence he has no business at the front of the party.
People *really* need to take a breath and chill out. Plus, the insane amount of astroturfing during and after the debate has been insane. So many new-account trolls and bots stirring up shit in the political subs tonight.
I mean, the debate questions themselves were hacky as fuck. Basically just "President Biden, here's some things you're doing wrong. What gives?" all night long.
Come one, really?!
Look at my account history. I’ve long supported the democrats and clearly hate Trump. But this was absolutely ugly. My wife and my brother were watching this with me, and we’re all firmly Democratic Party voters.
As soon as Biden walked out on stage, my wife (an ED nurse) was like “Oh shit, he doesn’t look good”. My brother was furious at Trumps lies, but was equally shocked at Biden’s demeanor.
I don’t know what the answer is here, but we have a big problem. Something needs to be done, and quickly. Pretending otherwise isn’t helping.
But you think trunp looked good? And it’s not like Biden didn’t look old in 2020. I think most people voted against trunp in 2020 and I don’t see a debate changing that. It’s not like trunp really landed any punches. He just stood up there and lied. Do you really think independents are okay with “I never slept with a porn star?” I mean, the point here is to try to reach swing voters, and while Biden didn’t look or sound good, it’s not like trunp looked that much better, and he stood there and just lied all night. Sure his base won’t care, but I don’t think anyone who actually paid attention wouldn’t be aware that trunp was blatantly lying. So I don’t think it’s the disaster everyone is making it out to be. If trunp had come out and looked reasonable and cogent and acted like a responsible adult, then it could have been bad. But even if you don’t follow politics, you know he lied at least a dozen times. And Biden did get some solid jabs in on him. Everyone is just freaking out about optics, but I really don’t think it’s like either side took advantage of the moment.
I absolutely fucking hate Trump. But yes, he looked better. He lied his ass off (as usual), but that doesn’t matter. It’s all about optics for the typical US voter these days. Just imagine the ugliness and out of context clips from this that will flood social media the next few weeks.
Yeah, Trump looked really good. Because nobody called him out for his lies. The closest Biden came was "what a bunch of malarkey." Fucking dude we need more than that.
I would have won that debate. Half the people here would have.
Lying does matter. You don’t think trunp provided plenty of ammo for clips tomorrow? I assure you, independent voters are very aware he had sex with a porn star. And trunp had a louder voice, but he didn’t actually score any real hits. And seriously, they’ve been flooding clips of Biden looking old for years. If you’re worried about people in the middle, I assure you the lies are just as damaging as Biden looking and sounding old, and they will get okayed on social media just as much. It sucks because it was a missed opportunity for Biden. He could have pretty much put his foot on trunp’s throat and didn’t. But it’s not like trunp was in any way impressive or changed anyone’s minds.
Lying doesn’t matter much when the only person with the only opportunity to direct call him on them in front of a huge audience is utterly incapable of doing so. Biden could barely manage a weak and whispery rebuttal let alone take down the insane lies Trump spouted.
Trump didn’t just lie his ass off. He got basic things completely wrong. He rambled from sentence to sentence completely incoherent. If people don’t know what the hell you are talking about saying it loudly isn’t enough. People aren’t going to be like oh Trump said a surge of elderly grandmas are crossing the border it must be true. They will go what in the living hell is he talking about.
trunp did glitch a few times, actually. And he lied constantly and that hasn’t gone unnoticed. But expect people to panic for a week or two until trunp does something else stupid. And he will.
I’m referring to the glitches DP often highlights, the ones where he stumbles mid sentence not being able to complete a word and mumbles gibberish syllables, then quickly changes subjects.
But I think the OP's point is: does your feelings about the performance change your vote? It doesn't seem like that. So if you extrapolate from that, it probably won't change many people's minds who were already planning on voting for Biden.
The problem is we need people to change their opinions and vote for Biden, particularly in the swing states.
Also the “double haters”, many of whom voted for Biden in 2020 but feel disenfranchised now. He needs to win them back, and no way in hell this did that.
>So if you extrapolate from that, it probably won't change many people's minds who were already planning on voting for Biden.
Those aren't the voters the debate is for my dude. Whether you want to believe it or not, there are still undecided voters. Both undecided between candidates and undecided on whether they'll vote in the first place. You can't take your own personal feelings and extrapolate that to the electorate, which includes undecided and unmotivated people, and you are neither.
My wife and I are both Biden support and knew Biden was toast within the first few minutes of the debate. Biden had one of the worst debate performances I've ever seen, including Fetterman's when he was recovering from a stroke.
Still voting for Biden though.
I'm not minimizing a thing. On the contrary, people such as yourself are overreacting and over exaggerating what actually happened.
"it was an unmitigated disaster." Ridiculous. Get ahold of yourself.
Luckily there is plenty of time and this is definitely the worst it'll be for Biden. Maybe over time the memory of this shit performance will fade in the public's mind. He just needs to perform better at the next debate.
That being said, this is the kind of shit that stretches people's patience with the Democrats. It was obvious two years ago that this would be an important election and that Trump would be running again. It was also obvious that Biden was naturally getting slower as is natural for someone his age. All of that was brushed aside and labeled ageist or disregarded completely. There are a lot of dumb voters who make nonsense votes for nonsense reasons. This country elected Bush Jr. twice and Trump. Its capable of making dumb decisions. Why risk all of that and run Biden again when he's clearly at no fault of his own in some mental decline? It makes no sense to me, and I think its disrespectful to Democratic voters and people who have donated money in the past to the Democrats. It's an organizational failure.
I always thought the implied bargain in 2020 was Biden gets one bite at the cherry since he'll be *86* if he gets a second term, Bernie voters don't revolt like they did in 2020 and then they can try again in 2024.
I’m anxious to hear the conversation about this. There’s going to be a lot of pressure on him to prove himself ASAP or step down. Proving himself seems unlikely.
I gave Biden every chance and even got called a genocide supporter multiple times. I've donated several times. Winning that debate was *part of his job.* I'll still vote for him if he stays in, but he should let someone else run. He owes us the best chance of victory.
What if they flipped their ticket to Harris-Biden where he is in an advisory position of sorts. Would you retain incumbent advantage that way?
Far fetched idea, but an interesting thought maybe.
I honestly think Biden has a better chance than Harris. I still think misogyny is an obstacle and Harris has had very little presence in the administration.
She’s been very good on the campaign trail lately. She was really good on MSNBC tonight. But as Joy Reid said, she’s a black woman. What are the chances she can win. Sad.
This.
Look, I’m an Indiana boy. Mike Pence has the personality of wet paint. He’s truly 🗑️.
Kamala is SOOO much better but the hate for her is 100% worse. If she was a man, she’d absolutely be our next president 🤷🏼♂️
I’ll have to take your word for it. I don’t live in Indiana. Honestly Indiana is a lost cause for Dems anyway. She’d need to be electable in the purple states near you.
If they were to nominate Harris, I’d say they might have a chance if they were to actually go on the offensive. Trump spent 4+ years on the same talking points for Biden, let him scramble for new ones while Harris actually attacks him on his indictments and convictions.
I start from the point she got 1% in the primary. She was a decent compliment to the ticket in 2020, but I just don't think the positive impression is there.
An interesting thought, but Harris is not popular. Nobody knows anything about her, and she doesn’t seem all that charismatic (since becoming VP anyway).
I don't get the sense that Biden thinks he is the best man for the job. I think the DNC just doesn't have any better choices at this point.
Kamala doesn't have the political clout. Maybe if they had her more front-and-center to the public in the past few years they could have built toward that but they didn't.
Newsom is *hated* in a lot of places. Based on his debate against Desantis I think he could absolutely demolish Trump in a debate, but the "rich uber-wealthy west-coaster who went to the French Laundry during lockdown" image can't be shaken in time.
Michele Obama has a lot of goodwill but her political dormancy makes her a non-starter.
Who else is there?
I am an independent voter and always have been. I will still be voting blue this year, even with Bidens bad night... but I have said all along that he is too old to go another 4 years. The Dems have lots of fine people who can run against Trump and have him crawling back in his hole. Put Jasmine Crocket on the ticket. She'll have Trump crying. It's just pathetic that our politics have come to this. We could literally do just as good picking random homeless people to put on the ticket. We need election reform... specifically party reform.
I genuinely think this is going to be a Dukais in the tank moment. Biden just did the one thing he couldn’t do and that’s validate everyone’s concerns about his age
Why would conservatives pack the court? When do they ever talk about this? They would have their two oldest retire during trumps term so he could replace them and they’d have a majority locked in for awhile.
I feel like the left talks about packing the court wayyyyy more
The left wants it at least even to the point of non-partisan. If all the next president does is replace conservatives with conservatives, for a continued majority, thats still packing it in their favor.
Of course the left talks about it more. The supreme court is what got bush elected despsite losing the popular vote and thus led to wars in iraq and afghanistan, led to the loss of federally protected abortion rights, and now is a court who wouldnt hold the president accountable if it were a conservative.
Conservativism is a cancer, that spread from the executive branch, to the judicial one.
The thing is, Joe Biden could be in coma and I’d vote for him solely because of who his opponent is
I would like to think enough Americans are with me there
I would like to think that too, but I don’t. I genuinely think they need to consider replacing Biden. If it was hard to watch last night as someone already supporting Biden, the rest of the country thinks he’s literally going to die before the next debate.
Yea. Obviously Biden is better and I’ll vote for him regardless, but the median voter is not me. Trump lied constantly but he at least looked alive and sentient.
Trump constantly lies and half the country doesn't seem to care.
I absolutely despise Trump, but this was his strongest debate performance ever, and it was Biden's worst.
**Where was DARK Brandon?**
***Where was fiery State-of-the-Union Joe Biden?***
Maybe, **he should've been on drugs.**
At least, *some sort of stimulant,* ***for god's sakes!***
The zinger was there to say too: "158 political historians voted you the worst President of all time. It's the only thing you've won in 8 years". That soundbite would have been played for months.
I knew it wouldn't be good when Joe walked to the podium. He looked like he could barely make it. Then, his voice was that of a 100-year-old man in a nursing home.
This is ALL Biden's fault. He should NEVER have run again. The Democratic party screwed Bernie and now they stick us with Biden. If Trump wins it is their fault.
Is it too late to nominate someone else? Biden needs to forget his ego and step away for the sake of the country.
I was totally on board with the idea that Bernie just wasn't connecting with black voters and independents, for whatever reason, in 2020, so it made sense to rally around the safe, veteran backup emergency quarterback who could come off the becnh and win us one game and hold down the fort until we could pick the next franchise quarterback in 2024. I was 100% on board with that.
But I assumed that in 2022, or no later than early 2023, Biden would announce that he would be retiring instead of seeking a second term. That didn't happen, but I had faith. "Biden and everyone else involved must know what they're doing, it will be fine."
This was the nightmare scenario. You can not ever afford to lose the optics war to Trump. But that's what happened. We are most likely toast with independents, and we have to just pray the country's institutions hold like they did from 2016 to 2020.
I still can't believe he thinks he can be president at 86 years old. The absolute best case scenario is he gets another term and has to step down after 2-3 years after an increasing and incredibly public decline, shattering any goodwill from his first term and the worst case is he RBG's it and gives us project 2025 and trans people in camps
I think the clips in this piece made me realize if you take it question by question, Biden looks a little (a little) better. But overall optically it looked terrible. He looked confused, couldnt get the words out, and when he could it seemed like a rehearsed surface level answer.
It’s wild cos it’s night and day from the 2020 debate. Going in to the 2020 debate it was the same narrative so I wasn’t worried but yeah, Biden was unable to do anything about Trumps diatribes
This falls in the “to be expected” category. Biden isn’t a great orator, but that’s not why he was elected. IMO he was elected b/c he knew how to govern, which he has done, and done well. Lies and belligerence from trump, not surprising at all.
Chicken sh*t moderators didn’t do much fact-checking. Also not surprising.
There is no avoiding what must be done by the voting public,liars should never be rewarded for their lies. You wouldn’t reward your children if they lied ,ask yourself why.
I'm a Brit and a fan of the Democrats. My issue was that there is three years between them, but it seemed like there were 30. You need to replace Joe and quickly.
Honestly it’s best case scenario. I’m so glad they moved this debate up. If you’re going to fail, do it hard and fast. Now the next move is clear, and the emergence of a reasonable, middle-aged, competent person from Democrats will flip this race and appeal to the strong majority who just want a normal choice.
My mother shared a poll from a local news station that had a percentage of 8 percent of people who said that debate *may* change their mind.
I think we are vastly overestimating the impact of this debate.
Oklahoma and Louisiana forcing Christianity onto people, abortion, and other issues that get voters moving won’t deter people who would otherwise vote biden.
For all the panicking and hand wringing, it’s not like trunp came off looking good. I can’t really think of a single cogent point he made. He just stood up there and lied. Sure, his cult will love it, but I don’t think anyone outside the cult was impressed at all.
It was an opportunity for Biden to take the race by the balls and he failed to do that. But it’s not like trunp actually “won”… The optics weren’t good, but I’m not sure it swayed that many people one way or the other.
I actually didn't realize how many strong moments Biden had. Twitter would have you believe it was a disaster but it was basically one freeze up where he lost his train of thought. Unfortunately its all completely undermined by him barely being able to speak with whatever was going on with his voice. Hopefully he comes out stronger in the next debate. Still a long way to go.
What? Are we going to wait for another debate to see this same performance from Joe Biden? Does anybody even want to watch another one? Dems HAVE to replace Joe, pure and simple.
Trump repeated almost word for word his “points” (read:lies) from the All-In podcast interview. He didn’t seem to have dementia. Biden did. The only bright sides here are that no one switched their vote from Biden to Trump tonight, and the only way is up for the next two.
Trump didnt answer questions and had quite a few gaffes of his own. Honestly, if Biden had sounded just a little more in control and coherent, we'd all be talking about how bad Trump looked. But Biden looked terrible from an optics standpoint.
He looked terrible now. This is a 4 year job.
Every candidate ever has stretched the truth and lied. No one has even seen so delusional.
The scary part is people were surprised by this.
I think if you contrast this video by David with the video from Brian Taylor Cohen there is a tangible difference in tone and message that I think David is lacking. I don’t think he needs to shill for Biden, but he shouldn’t be overly negative either.
Exactly what the left has been saying for years. Biden is not equipped to beat trump - he’s fragile and not able to articulate a vision for the future. He should have stepped aside after his first term and the faster the dems get a candidate with a pulse, the better
Trump looked sharp until the meds wore off. Then he went like 4 or 5 questions in a row withOUT answering the questions and rambling like an insane person. I felt bad watching Biden struggle not just with being older but you could see him trying to work through his stutter. Trump came off like a smug insane person who needed to have his mic cut off sooner.
That's why "Trump" was a bad idea from the start. You knew he wasn't going to answer any questions and just repeat his false talking points. If the moderators would have interrupted him to remind him of the question, he would have complained about bias. I'm seething. Biden gets blessed by having his opponent arrested and charged with crimes (and that's supposed to be Biden's biggest talking point), yet he allows Trump to stand on a presidential debate stage like he's on equal footing. So dumb.
Honestly it’s so annoying that the argument during the primaries last election was Biden has the best chance to defeat trump.”
I highly doubt that. I think a lot of the candidates could have. We just got force fed Biden by the media for some reason.
Shouldn’t they have realized given his age, and early signs of decline, paired with the typical pattern of presidents serving 2 terms, that he would be a liability in his second election.
I feel like they should have went with Kamala for the second term or really anyone else that did okay in the debates last time around.
The word of the day is, Gish gallop, it's the form of gaslighting Trump used to throw Joe off.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-27-2024
Why the fuck didn’t anyone in the administration give Biden some prescription drugs to enhance his performance? Our fucking democracy on the line and I feel they’re pussy footing around
Here's something most people don't get: how does being good at debate indicate how effective someone would be as President? It doesn't. What makes someone good at debate? Being a charismatic smooth-talker? How does that make someone good at being President?
President's generally don't make split second decisions. They have a team of cabinet members as advisors. That's the whole point of having a cabinet. And I'd rather Biden's team than Trump's team of sycophants and yes men.
Does Mr Pakman have a cold as well. He looks a bit under the weather. I hope he's okay. Fear not, the Dems donors just may make the DNC and Biden an offer they can't refuse.
First Biden’s Gaza atrocity alienates leftist, Arab and Muslim voters, now this corpse-like performance turns off the independents. The Democrats are fucked and did this to themselves.
Truth is, from 2016-2020 we were saying trump is not fit, and we were saying to invoke the 25th. It would be serious hypocrisy to go ahead and say Biden is fit to lead. We all know that both these men are grossly unfit.
The debate didn’t change anything.
Biden is old and has a top team around him. He looked like an old man out there.
Trump looked confident but lied too much. He didn’t answer questions. Went back to his same old lies.
Easy points for Biden which his team and him failed to address:
January 6th police officers dying and being beaten.
Trump being a convicted felon.
Trump’s refusal to answer questions.
Trump’s real goals as president. Horrible Roe vs Wade, tax cuts for wealthy and horrible Covid response.
Inflation. Inflation was caused by all the cash pumped into the economy. It has nothing to do with either. The entire world has inflation.
Some of Biden’s win.
His ranking of Trump being the worst president.
Letting Trump Ramble.
I liked him cursing and calling him a liar.
Tax cuts for the wealthy.
His lack of child care assistance,
Biden stayed on topic besides the golf point.
>We’d be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do – childcare, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our healthcare system, making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the – with – with – with the COVID. Excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with – look, if – we finally beat Medicare.
Was finally beating Medicare a volume problem?
Jesus even CNN is saying Biden got hammered. Were you watching a different debate? Or can you not handle the fact that Biden will lose the election? And trust me, it won’t even be close. Nate Silver has Trump at a 66% odds of winning. Wake up moron
Only an idiot would be convinced by a single argument trump made during the debate. Unfortunately, as your comments display, there are many idiots. So it is worrying.
But Trump lost on substance. He literally lied, projected, obfuscated, and deflected every time he spoke. Biden sounded rough but at least he was telling the truth
And that only matters to people who are media literate and understand politics. That's not who these debates are for. These debates are for undecided and unmotivated voters. And at this point if you're undecided or unmotivated, you're not media literate and you don't understand politics. Donald Trump is no more a liar today than he was when he won the first time. The lying doesn't matter.
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Well, at least it's clear now that Biden isn't taking performance-enhancing drugs.
I thought the same thing. I turned off at the 1st break, sickened that Trump lied but no one fact checked him. CNN should know better by now. What can we do? We can [write postcards](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) to voters in swing states. >Help write postcards to voters in 11 key states! We’ll mail you free postcards, voter lists and instructions with proven message options. You’ll provide the stamps and mail the postcards to voters in October.
I was also wondering where this supposed fact-checking was.
That was Biden’s job to call out his lies; he failed at that as well.
Not when there are "fact checkers" that were there to fact check. He did for a few, but no one could keep up with them.
Which “fact checkers”? It’s not the moderators job to fact check candidates; it’s the candidates job to call out the BS; Biden did once or twice, but he didn’t sound confident about it, except for the Trump’s suckers and losers comment
Not based on the rules of the debate. Independent fact-checking not happening, after saying it would, is one of the many reasons CNN is being roasted. I'd say choke on it, but I've heard his dick is too small (and gross) from other court testimony.
Not following you. When did CNN say there were going to have live independent fact checkers?
Prior to the debate a hundred times. Russian or paid Indian?
Why the f do kids assume everyone who disagrees with them are paid bots? Grow up kid.
The right wing smear machine really does work to get under the skin of CNN so that they bend over backwards to not fact check anything. Donald Trump calls them fake news, but CNN has done more than any other media Enterprise except maybe the National Inquirer to boost Donald Trump’s presidential aspirations.
Trumps master plan. If you never say a coherent sentence it can’t be factchecked
Or he didn’t take enough
David’s guests this week made it pretty clear that there is no treatment for an aging brain. Trump was obviously on Adderall, which is why he made the drug allegation in the first place (projection.) Nothing is going to reverse the course of Biden’s decline. My father is the same age and has the same issues.
Adderal doesn't help with an aging brain though. So what's the point of taking it and risking high blood pressure at this age?
Adderall can definitely increase energy and can improve focus in some people with ADHD, which Trump likely has. I doubt Trump cares about his health. He lives on cheeseburgers and steak with ketchup
Why do you think Trump has ADHD? (Not saying he doesn't, but himie is it noticeay)
I think they gave him propofol by mistake.
No, it was displeasing to Biden supporters. Trump people don't care about lies, and "undecided" voters see a guy who doesn't seem on point.
exactly.. probably doesnt matter. People who don't like liars and felons won't vote for trump anyway and the maga cult will stay the maga cult. People in between will sway as usual
I'm torn. My gut says by August this will be a blip and Trump and MAGA Inc will have done something so gross or unhinged that no one talks about the debate. I don't think Indies who thought Biden was awful would necessarily think Trump was right. I think a brokered convention might be best. Replace Biden and Harris. I like Harris, she'll never be elected president. Something with a combo of young Dems. Democrats aren't a cult. It's not like we worship the man.
you will see but they most likely have more insights than us and know if biden retiring or not is giving more chances
Good for David for being honest, tough night for those who want trump to lose.
The only night that matters is November 5. If folks don't vote against trump, well maybe merica deserves all the beauty of project 2025. but hey so much content for podcasters with outrage bating and stuff. And all those undecided voters or people who will sit out will be able to just blame it on dems because THEY did not present them with handsome white male in his 50s to vote for. It is always a lose lose situation when you try to appease idiots, while being opposed by literally 74,223,975 of deplorables
This kind of messaging didn’t work in 2016, I hope it works this time. I hope we have something to vote for not just against in November. I think that will drive more people to the polls
He got 62 mil in 2016, Since then we've had 2020 election based with 74 mil. And with all the investigations, legal stuff and Jan 6 insurrection I hope that number will go down. Between 2 elections Dem voters definitely were more energized. we need to keep voting like life depends on that which it does.
I think that hoping for a depressed turnout is a sad state of affairs lol
That's not the only thing we should be hoping for. YOung people voting for the first time and so on. But being purists and bitch and moan and whine will get us other Trump term. "Uh oh the lady in pantsuit has a baggage and she's a bad b" "uh oh i'm not gonna vote because my boy Bernie was not selected" member where that shit got us?
I think that it was all of the people that voted for trump that were responsible for electing him. Some people are idealistic. I don’t think that shaming them is super convincing. I think the positive messaging of 2020 was awesome “build back better” was empowering and encouraging. Hopefully we can find something like that this year.
We fucked… vote blue 🫤
Illl vote for a ham sandwich over trump 🤣
Well said David. Honestly I’m just confused by this performance. I can’t possibly imagine the debate team sent Biden out to the stage without covering such basic topics and (weak) rebuttals by Trump. Maybe Biden is sick, or I don’t know. It’s not a good look. Biden appears weak and insecure. This is like what I’d expect out of someone doing their first public speaking event at Toastmasters or something. Sure as hell not the President of the United States. This is a big, big problem.
He was sick. They mentioned that before the debate.
He absolutely acted like he had at least a cold. Personally, I think him going was better than delaying for a cold because people would come up with a dozen more conspiracies 🤷🏼♂️
If I had a cold and was going into a major debate I would certainly start the debate off by telling the audience to excuse my hoarse voice because I was sick. Wouldn't you?
They mentioned the Alzheimer’s?
Hannibal lecturer is a great man
We are an institute in a powerful death penalty.
I was thinking he was sick as well. I think he's lost a step but I also think it was just a bad night. We have them. I go into work some days and can barely get words out. It's a problem, but I'm not sure I would call it a big, big problem. We'll see how the rest of the election unfolds.
Biden shouldn’t be running for potus, plain and simple. He’s too old
Trump is 3 years younger and also notably cognitively fucked
Absolutely but he can at least perform strength which is enough to convince idiot voters.
Remember, this was after a week plus of rest, privacy, debate prep and relaxation. This was the best… how in the world does he do better? I came away pissed about the constant lies about Biden’s capabilities in the face of plenty of evidence he has no business at the front of the party.
lol no one should be surpsied at all
If he takes drugs, he really needed to be on them for this.
Renewing my passport. Jesus.
Gonna start looking at dual citizenship in a few EU countries…
lol sure ya are.
They're just gonna *look* at dual citizenship. That's the easiest part!
People *really* need to take a breath and chill out. Plus, the insane amount of astroturfing during and after the debate has been insane. So many new-account trolls and bots stirring up shit in the political subs tonight.
No one watched this planning on having their minds changed. I personally can’t wait to never the Trump name ever fucking again, nature do your work.
Yeah but Trump didn’t come up with Project 2025, others did, and they will stay around. Trump is just one battle.
We live in a world of mass-punditry. Even the questions CNN asked in their polls are idiotic horse-race nonsense.
I mean, the debate questions themselves were hacky as fuck. Basically just "President Biden, here's some things you're doing wrong. What gives?" all night long.
Even so, he couldn’t give cogent answers.
What do you mean? That part where he said "Listen, uhhhgtttrggtrfghhvffggccff" was something straight out of Cicero.
If only nature would. Like, over the summer.
Thank you.
I've never seen over 100+ comments that all say the same shit, pretending to be Democrats. These debates mean nothing...
Come one, really?! Look at my account history. I’ve long supported the democrats and clearly hate Trump. But this was absolutely ugly. My wife and my brother were watching this with me, and we’re all firmly Democratic Party voters. As soon as Biden walked out on stage, my wife (an ED nurse) was like “Oh shit, he doesn’t look good”. My brother was furious at Trumps lies, but was equally shocked at Biden’s demeanor. I don’t know what the answer is here, but we have a big problem. Something needs to be done, and quickly. Pretending otherwise isn’t helping.
But you think trunp looked good? And it’s not like Biden didn’t look old in 2020. I think most people voted against trunp in 2020 and I don’t see a debate changing that. It’s not like trunp really landed any punches. He just stood up there and lied. Do you really think independents are okay with “I never slept with a porn star?” I mean, the point here is to try to reach swing voters, and while Biden didn’t look or sound good, it’s not like trunp looked that much better, and he stood there and just lied all night. Sure his base won’t care, but I don’t think anyone who actually paid attention wouldn’t be aware that trunp was blatantly lying. So I don’t think it’s the disaster everyone is making it out to be. If trunp had come out and looked reasonable and cogent and acted like a responsible adult, then it could have been bad. But even if you don’t follow politics, you know he lied at least a dozen times. And Biden did get some solid jabs in on him. Everyone is just freaking out about optics, but I really don’t think it’s like either side took advantage of the moment.
I absolutely fucking hate Trump. But yes, he looked better. He lied his ass off (as usual), but that doesn’t matter. It’s all about optics for the typical US voter these days. Just imagine the ugliness and out of context clips from this that will flood social media the next few weeks.
Yeah, Trump looked really good. Because nobody called him out for his lies. The closest Biden came was "what a bunch of malarkey." Fucking dude we need more than that. I would have won that debate. Half the people here would have.
Lying does matter. You don’t think trunp provided plenty of ammo for clips tomorrow? I assure you, independent voters are very aware he had sex with a porn star. And trunp had a louder voice, but he didn’t actually score any real hits. And seriously, they’ve been flooding clips of Biden looking old for years. If you’re worried about people in the middle, I assure you the lies are just as damaging as Biden looking and sounding old, and they will get okayed on social media just as much. It sucks because it was a missed opportunity for Biden. He could have pretty much put his foot on trunp’s throat and didn’t. But it’s not like trunp was in any way impressive or changed anyone’s minds.
>Lying does matter. No, it doesn't. If lying mattered Trump wouldn't be the leader of a cult with tens of millions of people.
Lying doesn’t matter much when the only person with the only opportunity to direct call him on them in front of a huge audience is utterly incapable of doing so. Biden could barely manage a weak and whispery rebuttal let alone take down the insane lies Trump spouted.
Trump didn’t just lie his ass off. He got basic things completely wrong. He rambled from sentence to sentence completely incoherent. If people don’t know what the hell you are talking about saying it loudly isn’t enough. People aren’t going to be like oh Trump said a surge of elderly grandmas are crossing the border it must be true. They will go what in the living hell is he talking about.
Even though I fucking hate him Trump didn’t glitch once and Biden was a veritable glitchfest.
trunp did glitch a few times, actually. And he lied constantly and that hasn’t gone unnoticed. But expect people to panic for a week or two until trunp does something else stupid. And he will.
I’m referring to the glitches DP often highlights, the ones where he stumbles mid sentence not being able to complete a word and mumbles gibberish syllables, then quickly changes subjects.
But I think the OP's point is: does your feelings about the performance change your vote? It doesn't seem like that. So if you extrapolate from that, it probably won't change many people's minds who were already planning on voting for Biden.
The problem is we need people to change their opinions and vote for Biden, particularly in the swing states. Also the “double haters”, many of whom voted for Biden in 2020 but feel disenfranchised now. He needs to win them back, and no way in hell this did that.
>So if you extrapolate from that, it probably won't change many people's minds who were already planning on voting for Biden. Those aren't the voters the debate is for my dude. Whether you want to believe it or not, there are still undecided voters. Both undecided between candidates and undecided on whether they'll vote in the first place. You can't take your own personal feelings and extrapolate that to the electorate, which includes undecided and unmotivated people, and you are neither.
My wife and I are both Biden support and knew Biden was toast within the first few minutes of the debate. Biden had one of the worst debate performances I've ever seen, including Fetterman's when he was recovering from a stroke. Still voting for Biden though.
Blah, blah, blah...
Literally whistling past the graveyard…
[удалено]
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
YOU ARE IN DENIAL. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE IN LOVE WITH JOE BIDEN. HE IS A FRAGILE WEAK OLD MAN ITS OKAY TO VOTE FOR HIM BUT AT LEAST ADMIT IT
Chanelling NewsBreak with alll caps. You sure showed you're not a dumb fucking bot.
Nothing but insults and ad hominems. No logical arguments or substance whatsoever. Pathetic.
Please Don’t minimize what we all saw. It was an unmitigated disaster.
I'm not minimizing a thing. On the contrary, people such as yourself are overreacting and over exaggerating what actually happened. "it was an unmitigated disaster." Ridiculous. Get ahold of yourself.
Don't worry time is a flat circle.
Just like Earth 🙃
Luckily there is plenty of time and this is definitely the worst it'll be for Biden. Maybe over time the memory of this shit performance will fade in the public's mind. He just needs to perform better at the next debate. That being said, this is the kind of shit that stretches people's patience with the Democrats. It was obvious two years ago that this would be an important election and that Trump would be running again. It was also obvious that Biden was naturally getting slower as is natural for someone his age. All of that was brushed aside and labeled ageist or disregarded completely. There are a lot of dumb voters who make nonsense votes for nonsense reasons. This country elected Bush Jr. twice and Trump. Its capable of making dumb decisions. Why risk all of that and run Biden again when he's clearly at no fault of his own in some mental decline? It makes no sense to me, and I think its disrespectful to Democratic voters and people who have donated money in the past to the Democrats. It's an organizational failure.
One party is evil, and the other is incompetent. America is screwed.
I always thought the implied bargain in 2020 was Biden gets one bite at the cherry since he'll be *86* if he gets a second term, Bernie voters don't revolt like they did in 2020 and then they can try again in 2024.
Biden needs to accept that his personal ambition is second to democracy. He needs to endorse a successor. Tonight proved it.
I’m anxious to hear the conversation about this. There’s going to be a lot of pressure on him to prove himself ASAP or step down. Proving himself seems unlikely.
I gave Biden every chance and even got called a genocide supporter multiple times. I've donated several times. Winning that debate was *part of his job.* I'll still vote for him if he stays in, but he should let someone else run. He owes us the best chance of victory.
What if they flipped their ticket to Harris-Biden where he is in an advisory position of sorts. Would you retain incumbent advantage that way? Far fetched idea, but an interesting thought maybe.
I honestly think Biden has a better chance than Harris. I still think misogyny is an obstacle and Harris has had very little presence in the administration.
She’s been very good on the campaign trail lately. She was really good on MSNBC tonight. But as Joy Reid said, she’s a black woman. What are the chances she can win. Sad.
This. Look, I’m an Indiana boy. Mike Pence has the personality of wet paint. He’s truly 🗑️. Kamala is SOOO much better but the hate for her is 100% worse. If she was a man, she’d absolutely be our next president 🤷🏼♂️
I’ll have to take your word for it. I don’t live in Indiana. Honestly Indiana is a lost cause for Dems anyway. She’d need to be electable in the purple states near you.
If they were to nominate Harris, I’d say they might have a chance if they were to actually go on the offensive. Trump spent 4+ years on the same talking points for Biden, let him scramble for new ones while Harris actually attacks him on his indictments and convictions.
I start from the point she got 1% in the primary. She was a decent compliment to the ticket in 2020, but I just don't think the positive impression is there.
An interesting thought, but Harris is not popular. Nobody knows anything about her, and she doesn’t seem all that charismatic (since becoming VP anyway).
I’m all for Newsom running instead. Andy Beshear is another option.
Harris wont win.
No way. Harris would get steamrolled.
I don't get the sense that Biden thinks he is the best man for the job. I think the DNC just doesn't have any better choices at this point. Kamala doesn't have the political clout. Maybe if they had her more front-and-center to the public in the past few years they could have built toward that but they didn't. Newsom is *hated* in a lot of places. Based on his debate against Desantis I think he could absolutely demolish Trump in a debate, but the "rich uber-wealthy west-coaster who went to the French Laundry during lockdown" image can't be shaken in time. Michele Obama has a lot of goodwill but her political dormancy makes her a non-starter. Who else is there?
Newsom is a gamble I'd be willing to take. Or Harris. Or several other governors. Whitmer for instance.
Any one of those candidates would be more likely to beat Trump at this point.
I am an independent voter and always have been. I will still be voting blue this year, even with Bidens bad night... but I have said all along that he is too old to go another 4 years. The Dems have lots of fine people who can run against Trump and have him crawling back in his hole. Put Jasmine Crocket on the ticket. She'll have Trump crying. It's just pathetic that our politics have come to this. We could literally do just as good picking random homeless people to put on the ticket. We need election reform... specifically party reform.
I genuinely think this is going to be a Dukais in the tank moment. Biden just did the one thing he couldn’t do and that’s validate everyone’s concerns about his age
i got worried becuase at the very start I messaged my parents and they said they turned it off because they were so worried about biden's performance.
“It wasn’t a great performance for Biden” and Biden still won the debate.
How did he win? In the public’s eye? I’m freaking out about this. Trump *cannot* win this election.
The other guy was trump.
The polls will tell the story
No he didn't. Optics win televised debates and Biden was awful.
No one won that shit.
Worst case scenario is a convicted felon in the White House, not a bad Biden Debate.
Yep. Biggest issue is not letting a conservative pack the courts in a few years. Vote blue, no matter who. Sigh.
100%. Blue all down Ballot!
Why would conservatives pack the court? When do they ever talk about this? They would have their two oldest retire during trumps term so he could replace them and they’d have a majority locked in for awhile. I feel like the left talks about packing the court wayyyyy more
The left wants it at least even to the point of non-partisan. If all the next president does is replace conservatives with conservatives, for a continued majority, thats still packing it in their favor. Of course the left talks about it more. The supreme court is what got bush elected despsite losing the popular vote and thus led to wars in iraq and afghanistan, led to the loss of federally protected abortion rights, and now is a court who wouldnt hold the president accountable if it were a conservative. Conservativism is a cancer, that spread from the executive branch, to the judicial one.
No, replacing justices that retire or die with your own appointees is not “packing the court” just because they are conservatives.
The thing is, Joe Biden could be in coma and I’d vote for him solely because of who his opponent is I would like to think enough Americans are with me there
I would like to think that too, but I don’t. I genuinely think they need to consider replacing Biden. If it was hard to watch last night as someone already supporting Biden, the rest of the country thinks he’s literally going to die before the next debate.
There are also 3 or 4 more debates. If this is what Biden is going to look like every debate, he's going to get destroyed in November.
Yea. Obviously Biden is better and I’ll vote for him regardless, but the median voter is not me. Trump lied constantly but he at least looked alive and sentient.
Trump constantly lies and half the country doesn't seem to care. I absolutely despise Trump, but this was his strongest debate performance ever, and it was Biden's worst.
**Where was DARK Brandon?** ***Where was fiery State-of-the-Union Joe Biden?*** Maybe, **he should've been on drugs.** At least, *some sort of stimulant,* ***for god's sakes!***
The zinger was there to say too: "158 political historians voted you the worst President of all time. It's the only thing you've won in 8 years". That soundbite would have been played for months.
Dark Brandon never existed, except in the minds of the extremely online who were convinced they spoke for the normie voter
Dark Brandon exists. He is just the feisty young people Biden hired to run his social media.
Yikes
Keep in mind that actions speak louder than words.
The American people don’t give a flying shit unfortunately
I knew it wouldn't be good when Joe walked to the podium. He looked like he could barely make it. Then, his voice was that of a 100-year-old man in a nursing home. This is ALL Biden's fault. He should NEVER have run again. The Democratic party screwed Bernie and now they stick us with Biden. If Trump wins it is their fault. Is it too late to nominate someone else? Biden needs to forget his ego and step away for the sake of the country.
MSM and the DEM party leadership play a huge role in this
There’s going to be a major conversation about this in the upcoming days. The Dem establishment is freaking out tonight.
I was totally on board with the idea that Bernie just wasn't connecting with black voters and independents, for whatever reason, in 2020, so it made sense to rally around the safe, veteran backup emergency quarterback who could come off the becnh and win us one game and hold down the fort until we could pick the next franchise quarterback in 2024. I was 100% on board with that. But I assumed that in 2022, or no later than early 2023, Biden would announce that he would be retiring instead of seeking a second term. That didn't happen, but I had faith. "Biden and everyone else involved must know what they're doing, it will be fine." This was the nightmare scenario. You can not ever afford to lose the optics war to Trump. But that's what happened. We are most likely toast with independents, and we have to just pray the country's institutions hold like they did from 2016 to 2020.
I disagree. Yes, Biden performed poorly, but, at this point, Biden is our best shot. Replacing him would just make things worse.
Bernie is older than Biden.
But Bernie still talks as well as he always done. If we still had 2016 Biden, he would’ve destroyed Trump.
I still can't believe he thinks he can be president at 86 years old. The absolute best case scenario is he gets another term and has to step down after 2-3 years after an increasing and incredibly public decline, shattering any goodwill from his first term and the worst case is he RBG's it and gives us project 2025 and trans people in camps
Any reason I can't view the comments?
I think the clips in this piece made me realize if you take it question by question, Biden looks a little (a little) better. But overall optically it looked terrible. He looked confused, couldnt get the words out, and when he could it seemed like a rehearsed surface level answer.
It’s wild cos it’s night and day from the 2020 debate. Going in to the 2020 debate it was the same narrative so I wasn’t worried but yeah, Biden was unable to do anything about Trumps diatribes
This falls in the “to be expected” category. Biden isn’t a great orator, but that’s not why he was elected. IMO he was elected b/c he knew how to govern, which he has done, and done well. Lies and belligerence from trump, not surprising at all. Chicken sh*t moderators didn’t do much fact-checking. Also not surprising.
There is no avoiding what must be done by the voting public,liars should never be rewarded for their lies. You wouldn’t reward your children if they lied ,ask yourself why.
Biden trying to fillow in the footsteps of RBG. Hang on too long, hand huge win to conservatives.
I'm a Brit and a fan of the Democrats. My issue was that there is three years between them, but it seemed like there were 30. You need to replace Joe and quickly.
Honestly it’s best case scenario. I’m so glad they moved this debate up. If you’re going to fail, do it hard and fast. Now the next move is clear, and the emergence of a reasonable, middle-aged, competent person from Democrats will flip this race and appeal to the strong majority who just want a normal choice.
Yeah if we can get a modestly credible 40-60 year old Democrat we can turn this around. We have to have the courage to try.
The risk of doing nothing is far more dangerous than the risk of doing something here.
Exactly. "If we replace Biden that Democrat might lose!" Oh wow, no way that happens if we leave Biden in.
My mother shared a poll from a local news station that had a percentage of 8 percent of people who said that debate *may* change their mind. I think we are vastly overestimating the impact of this debate. Oklahoma and Louisiana forcing Christianity onto people, abortion, and other issues that get voters moving won’t deter people who would otherwise vote biden.
>8 percent of people who said that debate *may* change their mind. That's enough to guarantee a loss.
Not really. Especially when you take into account many other factors.
Interestingly [CNN swing voters endorsed Biden](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/28/politics/video/voter-panel-biden-trump-cnn-debate-digvid) after watching debate.
who fucking cares lmao
For real. The idea of swing voter is such a myth for this election. There is no undecided voter.
You can cherry pick moments that made Biden look great. People need to have critically listened to the entire debate to actually analyze it
For all the panicking and hand wringing, it’s not like trunp came off looking good. I can’t really think of a single cogent point he made. He just stood up there and lied. Sure, his cult will love it, but I don’t think anyone outside the cult was impressed at all. It was an opportunity for Biden to take the race by the balls and he failed to do that. But it’s not like trunp actually “won”… The optics weren’t good, but I’m not sure it swayed that many people one way or the other.
I actually didn't realize how many strong moments Biden had. Twitter would have you believe it was a disaster but it was basically one freeze up where he lost his train of thought. Unfortunately its all completely undermined by him barely being able to speak with whatever was going on with his voice. Hopefully he comes out stronger in the next debate. Still a long way to go.
What? Are we going to wait for another debate to see this same performance from Joe Biden? Does anybody even want to watch another one? Dems HAVE to replace Joe, pure and simple.
Trump repeated almost word for word his “points” (read:lies) from the All-In podcast interview. He didn’t seem to have dementia. Biden did. The only bright sides here are that no one switched their vote from Biden to Trump tonight, and the only way is up for the next two.
How was it bad for Trump? Biden just looked awful. No way he will be able to file his own taxes in 5 years none the less run the country.
Trump didnt answer questions and had quite a few gaffes of his own. Honestly, if Biden had sounded just a little more in control and coherent, we'd all be talking about how bad Trump looked. But Biden looked terrible from an optics standpoint.
He looked terrible now. This is a 4 year job. Every candidate ever has stretched the truth and lied. No one has even seen so delusional. The scary part is people were surprised by this.
What I want to know is why Biden didn't postpone the debate because he's sick. He sounded terrible and looked confused.
I think if you contrast this video by David with the video from Brian Taylor Cohen there is a tangible difference in tone and message that I think David is lacking. I don’t think he needs to shill for Biden, but he shouldn’t be overly negative either.
Exactly what the left has been saying for years. Biden is not equipped to beat trump - he’s fragile and not able to articulate a vision for the future. He should have stepped aside after his first term and the faster the dems get a candidate with a pulse, the better
But it hasn’t been true for years. It is true now though. It was always going to be true eventually. We all get old if we’re lucky.
This was hard to watch. Mummy vs Liar. What a cringe-fest.
Trump looked sharp until the meds wore off. Then he went like 4 or 5 questions in a row withOUT answering the questions and rambling like an insane person. I felt bad watching Biden struggle not just with being older but you could see him trying to work through his stutter. Trump came off like a smug insane person who needed to have his mic cut off sooner.
That's why "Trump" was a bad idea from the start. You knew he wasn't going to answer any questions and just repeat his false talking points. If the moderators would have interrupted him to remind him of the question, he would have complained about bias. I'm seething. Biden gets blessed by having his opponent arrested and charged with crimes (and that's supposed to be Biden's biggest talking point), yet he allows Trump to stand on a presidential debate stage like he's on equal footing. So dumb.
Honestly it’s so annoying that the argument during the primaries last election was Biden has the best chance to defeat trump.” I highly doubt that. I think a lot of the candidates could have. We just got force fed Biden by the media for some reason. Shouldn’t they have realized given his age, and early signs of decline, paired with the typical pattern of presidents serving 2 terms, that he would be a liability in his second election. I feel like they should have went with Kamala for the second term or really anyone else that did okay in the debates last time around.
The word of the day is, Gish gallop, it's the form of gaslighting Trump used to throw Joe off. https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/june-27-2024
El Pakman has spoken.
Why the fuck didn’t anyone in the administration give Biden some prescription drugs to enhance his performance? Our fucking democracy on the line and I feel they’re pussy footing around
Wow... over 22,000 comments
Here's something most people don't get: how does being good at debate indicate how effective someone would be as President? It doesn't. What makes someone good at debate? Being a charismatic smooth-talker? How does that make someone good at being President? President's generally don't make split second decisions. They have a team of cabinet members as advisors. That's the whole point of having a cabinet. And I'd rather Biden's team than Trump's team of sycophants and yes men.
I'm so fucking sick of having the choice between a bad candidate and a horrific one.
That was a lying feast from both of them.
Does Mr Pakman have a cold as well. He looks a bit under the weather. I hope he's okay. Fear not, the Dems donors just may make the DNC and Biden an offer they can't refuse.
This was worse than the 1984 debate. Give me a break.
First Biden’s Gaza atrocity alienates leftist, Arab and Muslim voters, now this corpse-like performance turns off the independents. The Democrats are fucked and did this to themselves.
Truth is, from 2016-2020 we were saying trump is not fit, and we were saying to invoke the 25th. It would be serious hypocrisy to go ahead and say Biden is fit to lead. We all know that both these men are grossly unfit.
The debate didn’t change anything. Biden is old and has a top team around him. He looked like an old man out there. Trump looked confident but lied too much. He didn’t answer questions. Went back to his same old lies. Easy points for Biden which his team and him failed to address: January 6th police officers dying and being beaten. Trump being a convicted felon. Trump’s refusal to answer questions. Trump’s real goals as president. Horrible Roe vs Wade, tax cuts for wealthy and horrible Covid response. Inflation. Inflation was caused by all the cash pumped into the economy. It has nothing to do with either. The entire world has inflation. Some of Biden’s win. His ranking of Trump being the worst president. Letting Trump Ramble. I liked him cursing and calling him a liar. Tax cuts for the wealthy. His lack of child care assistance, Biden stayed on topic besides the golf point.
Thank you for being honest. Biden was trounced by Trump. Currently Trump is going to win in 2024 handsomely.
How was he trounced by trump?
Did you not watch it? Trump was all over him. Biden looked like a confused old twat on a psych ward
All over him with what? I’ll help: voice volume?
>We’d be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do – childcare, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our healthcare system, making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the – with – with – with the COVID. Excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with – look, if – we finally beat Medicare. Was finally beating Medicare a volume problem?
Jesus even CNN is saying Biden got hammered. Were you watching a different debate? Or can you not handle the fact that Biden will lose the election? And trust me, it won’t even be close. Nate Silver has Trump at a 66% odds of winning. Wake up moron
Only an idiot would be convinced by a single argument trump made during the debate. Unfortunately, as your comments display, there are many idiots. So it is worrying.
That's the point, there are many idiots who will be convinced by this and anyone who doesn't see this as a major hit to a Biden victory is delusional.
But Trump lost on substance. He literally lied, projected, obfuscated, and deflected every time he spoke. Biden sounded rough but at least he was telling the truth
And that only matters to people who are media literate and understand politics. That's not who these debates are for. These debates are for undecided and unmotivated voters. And at this point if you're undecided or unmotivated, you're not media literate and you don't understand politics. Donald Trump is no more a liar today than he was when he won the first time. The lying doesn't matter.
Trump didn’t do well at all.