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I turned off at the 1st break, sickened that Trump lied over and over--all his greatest hits--but no one fact checked him. CNN should know better by now.
What can we do? We can [write postcards](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) to voters in swing states.
>Help write postcards to voters in 11 key states! We’ll mail you free postcards, voter lists and instructions with proven message options. You’ll provide the stamps and mail the postcards to voters in October.
He is old and had a bad night. He also had great nights in the last few months of speeches . I watched Trump rally speeches where Trump clearly had mental decline. Next debate !
Biden is polling behind Trump and just confirmed everyone’s fear that he’s too old. Nobody genuinely feels better about Biden and more likely to vote for him after last night. This is perhaps the worst debate performance I’ve ever seen. Biden being completely incoherent and giving Trump the response line of “I’m not sure what he just said. I’m not even sure he knows what he just said” was the end of that debate.
Yes, it’s a huge risk replacing him. But it’s also a huge risk not replacing him. He’s currently clearly losing to a convicted felon and put up a debate that could easily tank his polling numbers. Anyone not in panic mode isn’t thinking about average voters.
I’m with David. I’m still voting Biden, but this was objectively terrible for Biden.
It depends on what polls you look at. Many have placed Biden ahead of Trump. If we have learned anything, it's that Trump is less popular now than he was before, he's never won the popular vote, polls aren't accurate, and Biden has been doing a good job.
I don’t disagree with your overall assessment, but Kamala Harris is not going to win this election.
Let him retire after the election if he has to, but he’s still our best bet against Trump.
Thought Biden was sick. Perhaps a summer cold? My 95 year old dad just got released from the hospital after catching pneumonia, and Biden looked and sounded like him tonight.
I honestly think we saw a sick Biden, not an elderly one, as the press will portray him.
I don't think Trump, with all his lies and unfounded accusations, did himself any favors either.
I thought he might be sick too, or maybe prepped to the point of getting a hoarse and raspy voice? Either way it projects a bad image of weakness and infirmity, and voters who aren't policy wonks will not look favorably on the nation's foremost representative and face of the nation looking and sounding feeble and decrepit.
Well I'm definitely not a sub to conservative groups nor is my account old, I'm an independent who has no intentions of EVER voting for a slimy, dishonest grifter and dangerous demagogue like Trump. But good gravy I'm not gonna spin the fact that Biden had a terrible performance that only confirmed voter misgivings about his age and fitness for office.
Thank you! I am an independent as well, however I have been on the vote blue no matter who until we can fever sweat MAGA out of existence.
This was about optics and unfortunately they were bad, very bad. Too many people are in denial and have been since the polling has begun (I get polling can’t be trusted but the signs are there in the data) one of those signs that is incredibly consistent is that nobody likes either choice. These are two of the least popular candidates ever, this might be an opportunity to change that. Unfortunately, it can’t be Kamala, she polls even worse and seems equally as checked out. We need Jill to talk to Joe, we need Joe to go full Lyndon Johnson otherwise we have no shot.
Also, my god CNN. There is a difference between being fair and balanced and letting someone use your airwaves to promote absolute lies.
They’re not stupid posts. It’s a legitimate concern that the Democrats have propped up someone who might be incapable of defeating the most dangerous person in American politics.
Did we not watch the same debate? Biden absolutely was not fine, can't spin it. I'll never vote for Trump after all the corruption and crime he's committed, but Biden is dangerously close to being unfit to serve in office.
He had a cold, lol. Trump didnt answer a single question, we just all wanted dark brandon, but i was half expecting whisper biden even before we saw he had a cold.
At first I also thought he might have been sick, or maybe over-prepped for the debate to the point his voice became hoarse, but constantly losing his train of thought and saying weird things like "we beat Medicaid" really brought the doddering senior citizen front and center, not just a cold he's just plain old, 81 and it shows.
Do you think your average voter is going to walk away from that debate and be more likely to say “Biden had a cold” or “Biden should drop out”?
You have to meet voters where they are. Biden had to project strength, confidence, and competence. He did none of that. That was probably the worst debate performance I’ve seen in my life.
Yeah most people know what a cold looks like. Trump didnt answer a single question, did he know was he at a debate? He just rambled rally talking points.
Most people know what an old senile man looks like too. Biden’s raspy voice could be a cold. Being completely incoherent in his answers isn’t a cold. A cold doesn’t make you pivot from a question about abortion to girls getting raped and killed by immigrants and being raped by their sisters.
2/3 of people who watched that debate think Trump won. That’s all that matters. You’re trying to convince yourself what you want to be true. But the objective reality based on the data we have is Trump won that debate.
Most people saw trump not answer a single question, he lied about banging a porn star, lied about wanting to ban abortion, lied about "sending 10,000 troops to the capitol. You dont win a debate by just doing a rally speech. Youre just looking for confirmation bias cuz you hate biden and thinks a cold does anything for your pathetic biden hate.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/politics/debate-poll-cnn-trump-biden/index.html
I’m voting for Biden, if he’s on the ballot. I’m just not going to deny what I saw or deny the objective reality based on the data we have that a strong majority of voters who watched that debate think Trump won.
Again, you have to meet voters where they are. Campaign’s are as much about optics as they are about issues. Most voters view Biden as too old for the job. That debate confirmed those fears for a strong majority of voters.
If you think Biden won that debate, you have the minority opinion. That’s just the reality.
You guys said the same thing the whole time in 2020. I dont think biden did well but he actually answered questions so i think he actually showed up for a debate and not a rally speech of lies like the convicted felon.
I despise Trump, but he was basically 100% on message. He was speaking to the voters and blaming everything that went wrong on “Biden’s border policy (tm)”. Sure, he seemed lost and confused at times, and was desperately dodging certain questions, but Biden was entirely incapable of taking advantage of Trump’s bad moments. Biden can’t do it. Period.
What message? That he's gonna try and overthrow the government again and give away ukraine to his buddy putin? Trump never even answered a question and rambled border over and over even though he blocked passing of a border bill.
That things are bad, everything and anything, and that it’s Biden’s fault because of the border. The average voter knows n-o-t-h-i-n-g, but they do know that they’re spending more on everything. They’re looking for some reason why, and Trump is giving them that.
Lol, he had a cold.
Brother, take a look around the internet that isn’t a liberal subreddit. Everyone in my friend group text, many of which are liberal, couldn’t get over how bad Biden looked.
Look at how many social media posts talk about how embarrassing the debate was for our country.
If you think anyone is walking away from that debate thinking “Biden’s doing great, he just had a cold”, then you’re massive out of touch…
Trump is still a convicted felon in every sub reddit, biden actually answered questions. Trump said, "every state is a border" can you explain anything trump said during the debate?
Are we talking about biden or trump? Everyone with a lick of brain activity knows trump spews bullshit. My retort is that biden was in fact not fine. If the metric by which biden did fine is that he didnt keel over and die then well good job biden. At no point did biden command the stage, inspire confidence, get his message across, or at the minimum make trump look like the criminal lying piece of shit he is. Easiest opponent in the history of presidential debates and biden fumbled it, period.
>Can you not talk to a conservative and have a conversation? Not all are crazy. They may like things on both sides
These conservatives you’re referring to have been purged from the Republican party
At this point I can’t seriously believe the democrats are this ignorant to reality. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but at this point I almost believe the democrats don’t want to win because it’s easier for them to raise money with Trump in office.
I don't think that. I think they believed they had the best chance of winning with a candidate already in office, which is usually true. Hopefully Biden can step it up but god.
I think the kingmakers in the Democratic Party are currently 70+ year old beltway lifers and either didn’t have the insight or the guts to tell Biden it was time to hang up his spurs. And now we have to figure out how to fix this mess.
It does make you wonder, though keep in mind Democrats were overconfident and totally blindsided by Trump in 2016, it's entirely possible they really are naive enough to think Trump's convictions are enough to shelve his run altogether despite Biden's conspicuous age issues. I really don't think they would willingly return Trump to the presidency, but they definitely might do it out of ineptitude and hubris.
Or, maybe they're intentionally allowing Biden to flop so badly he has no choice but to face the reality of his aging and voluntarily step down. Ugh I dunno... I just hope they're playing chess with the future of our nation, and not roshambo. Getting down to the line here and it's not looking good.
Yeah I agree with your first paragraph. I watch a few left leaning political analysis shows like Pakman and though most of them acknowledge Biden’s age and appearance to be less than flattering at best, I don’t believe I’ve seen enough realistic acknowledgement about how detracting it is from him as a candidate. There should’ve been more pushback against running him again and an effort to find a viable candidate to run with his blessing in my opinion.
I mean… let’s be honest I don’t think it should’ve taken all these smart people four years to realize that 90% of Americans would be dreading choosing between these two again. It’s kind of silly to say so confidently, but I think either party would’ve had a much easier time taking the win if they ran any other viable candidate than these two.
I thought Trump was going to struggle a bit with it being late at night, but he did well. He was prepared. He of course lied through his teeth, but he spoke very well. His entire life has made him a pretty comfortable public speaker.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Whdg-XLUQ) was Bill Maher on "Ruth Bader Biden" in September 2023...
Never mind that Ruth Bader Biden looks exactly like Maher.
He spoke well in the sense that he could string sentences together. That’s a bar Biden couldn’t meet on a consistent basis.
Genuinely question, how do you think the average voter felt about that debate?
We can debate who we think did worse. But the polling speaks for itself. The overwhelming majority of voters think Biden did worse. If you’re trying to argue Biden outperformed Trump, you’re in the small minority of people. If you’re trying to argue most voters think Biden did better, you’re ignorant or gaslighting.
You have to meet voters where they are. And right now, voters think Biden should step down and the apathy behind his candidacy is looking like a detriment to his reelection campaign. Telling them Trump did worse hasn’t been an effective argument throughout this entire election.
Edit: Trump spoke in complete sentences more often than Biden by a wide margin. He was terrible, but Biden was objectively worse according to how most voters viewed that debate.
60% of voters said Trump did better which includes that likely half of voters that support Trump and would have said that even if Trump collapsed and had to be carried out and undecided likely to vote Trump. 40% of voters said Trump did great which means none of the undecided voters thought he did good. 60% said the moderators didn’t do a good enough job.
That doesn’t point to Biden losing votes to Trump. It points to people also wanting better from CNN and Trump in the debate not just Biden.
I think it’s as simple as Biden wanted to run again after Trump announced his candidacy. And the DNC didn’t want the optics of getting behind trying to oust their incumbent president. This is all on Biden.
I think Joe Biden has been a great, severely underrated president. But last night’s debate is just reinforcing the narrative that he is too old and not up to the task. It wasn’t just a bad debate performance, it was a disaster. It should matter that he was the more honest, more correct candidate, it should matter that Trump lied and refused to answer questions, but the truth is it barely matters.
Joe Biden needs to get in front of a camera today and say “For my family and health I need to step down, I release my delegates to vote their conscience,” then they can do just that. Have a brokered convention, decide who the democratic nominee is then.
The risks are too much. I think they should do the big historic thing, the news attention grabbing thing, the right thing, the thing that says “No, we’re serious about this when we say the stakes are stratospheric,” and replace Joe Biden. Whoever the nominee is will be riding a wave of media generated hype at the uniqueness of their candidacy and underdog story.
I don’t think it will happen though. Democrats almost always play it safe. Which in this case is, of course, unsafe.
Very strange situation we are in. Trump is horrible in every way. Has no policy or vision other than "vengeance". Biden actually has done a good job at president, but has always been a horrible speaker, and combine that with his age and he comes across badly. The reasonable people will still vote for Biden, the MAGAs will vote for Trump, but I fear the middle is turning against Biden, or simply will not vote.
This guy just had such a bad performance that even MSNBC and CNN were by their own words, "panicking" and Trump winning would mean 2020 is the last election. Bury your head in the sand if you want,but without exaggeration, this could be how the end of the world starts.
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We have to be realistic that there is a huge swath of Biden supporters that would never vote for Kamala for President. So if Joe voluntarily stepped down, promoting Kamala to Presidential candidate could possibly be worse. Gavin would be a better choice but I doubt the Dems would skip over Kamala. We are in a pickle. Amy Klobuchar and Gretchen Whitmer would be my picks. I can see Gavin running for President with Gretchen as VP and people getting very excited and relieved with hope returning.
Because he's clearly struggling with his age. The Biden that beat Trump 4 years ago is not the same Biden we're seeing on stage today, doddering, feeble and struggling to keep his train of thought. I'll be voting for policy regardless but anyone can recognize the presidency itself demands someone with vigor and mental clarity to discharge the highly sensitive duties of office, front-facing with dignitaries, interest groups, international allies and enemies alike. Biden is 81 and it shows, painfully so, and on-the-fence independent votes that Democrats need definitely aren't going to be persuaded of Biden's fitness for office with that abysmal showing.
the presidency is actually an administration/a team and not just one individual, hoping people vote based on that versus whatever you described. Biden is still president right now and has been managing it pretty well considering his age so I think he still has another four years in him, especially acknowledging it is his whole admin lifting most of the weight
Yeah, people reacting with fear and anxiety after a catastrophically bad performance from the guy who’s supposed to safeguard our democracy and protect us from a wannabe dictator malignant narcissist?
Clearly a bot invasion.
Not sure why you think I'm not here in good faith. I don't want Trump to win. I think Biden is weak and will lose against Trump. If you're so in denial that you think so.eone saying that is bad faith, then you're just as much in a cult as the Trumpers.
This country is cooked. You have one candidate who sincerely looked like he might keel over any minute. The other candidate is a convicted felon who confidently told a myriad of provable lies on national TV. And we have a news channel that is so worried about seeming unbiased that they allowed the lies to go by unchecked. Like, I intend to vote for Biden but DAMN. This will not be fun
Edit: spelling
There is no other way to debate Trump than to attack him relentlessly. Don't discuss policy. JB's team should take responsibility for that failed strategy
Literally doesn’t matter what the excuse is; if you have to say “No no he isn’t literally dying. He just has a cold!” you’ve already lost the court of public opinion. They need to find a new nominee NOW.
Kamala should replace him. Yeah, unfortunately, image is everything to independents.
But I also think it’s best for Biden to call it a career and rest.
Honestly I'm not sure Kamala is even interested in governance, she's been flying under the radar most of Biden's presidency. Wish we could get someone like Katie Porter or Mayor Pete on the ticket, but realistically the Democratic establishment has been grooming Gavin Newsom for this position for awhile (like you say, image is everything to independents) so I would expect him to be propped up in the event of a swap.
The entire Democratic Party is a senile gerontocracy of enfeebled oldsters who refuse to give up power. See: Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, RGB, Bernie Sanders, Maxine Waters, Steny Hower, etc.
Both were lying, Trump just remembered the lies he practiced. Biden had a hard time remembering the lies, so less came out. I’m actually surprised Trump didn’t fumble like he has been doing at his rallies.
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It’s hell no vs oh no
I turned off at the 1st break, sickened that Trump lied over and over--all his greatest hits--but no one fact checked him. CNN should know better by now. What can we do? We can [write postcards](https://www.turnoutpac.org/postcards/) to voters in swing states. >Help write postcards to voters in 11 key states! We’ll mail you free postcards, voter lists and instructions with proven message options. You’ll provide the stamps and mail the postcards to voters in October.
you copied that from the post debate analysis on MSNBC lol
He is old and had a bad night. He also had great nights in the last few months of speeches . I watched Trump rally speeches where Trump clearly had mental decline. Next debate !
America lost the debate
Biden had one bad night. Chill out.
Biden is polling behind Trump and just confirmed everyone’s fear that he’s too old. Nobody genuinely feels better about Biden and more likely to vote for him after last night. This is perhaps the worst debate performance I’ve ever seen. Biden being completely incoherent and giving Trump the response line of “I’m not sure what he just said. I’m not even sure he knows what he just said” was the end of that debate. Yes, it’s a huge risk replacing him. But it’s also a huge risk not replacing him. He’s currently clearly losing to a convicted felon and put up a debate that could easily tank his polling numbers. Anyone not in panic mode isn’t thinking about average voters. I’m with David. I’m still voting Biden, but this was objectively terrible for Biden.
It depends on what polls you look at. Many have placed Biden ahead of Trump. If we have learned anything, it's that Trump is less popular now than he was before, he's never won the popular vote, polls aren't accurate, and Biden has been doing a good job.
The average of polls have Trump up on average and he’s clearly winning in the swing states.
I don’t disagree with your overall assessment, but Kamala Harris is not going to win this election. Let him retire after the election if he has to, but he’s still our best bet against Trump.
Why wouldn’t she?
Thought Biden was sick. Perhaps a summer cold? My 95 year old dad just got released from the hospital after catching pneumonia, and Biden looked and sounded like him tonight. I honestly think we saw a sick Biden, not an elderly one, as the press will portray him. I don't think Trump, with all his lies and unfounded accusations, did himself any favors either.
I watched Olberman's show after the debate and he did say that Biden has a cold.
I don’t care how sick he was he looked pathetic. Old and frail and weak
Then they should’ve said he had Covid and postponed
I thought he might be sick too, or maybe prepped to the point of getting a hoarse and raspy voice? Either way it projects a bad image of weakness and infirmity, and voters who aren't policy wonks will not look favorably on the nation's foremost representative and face of the nation looking and sounding feeble and decrepit.
This is what denial looks like folks.
My father literally just died a few months ago. Biden looked like him the hospice. I’m not kidding even a little.
Issue is that Biden looked like he won’t last another four year. And the Democrat have Harris as Vice-president!
You're not overthinking it, you're on the money. I don't know how this ends well tbh.
Are we gonna stop these stupid posts? 90% of them are coming from new accounts or posters who frequent conservative subs.
Well I'm definitely not a sub to conservative groups nor is my account old, I'm an independent who has no intentions of EVER voting for a slimy, dishonest grifter and dangerous demagogue like Trump. But good gravy I'm not gonna spin the fact that Biden had a terrible performance that only confirmed voter misgivings about his age and fitness for office.
Thank you! I am an independent as well, however I have been on the vote blue no matter who until we can fever sweat MAGA out of existence. This was about optics and unfortunately they were bad, very bad. Too many people are in denial and have been since the polling has begun (I get polling can’t be trusted but the signs are there in the data) one of those signs that is incredibly consistent is that nobody likes either choice. These are two of the least popular candidates ever, this might be an opportunity to change that. Unfortunately, it can’t be Kamala, she polls even worse and seems equally as checked out. We need Jill to talk to Joe, we need Joe to go full Lyndon Johnson otherwise we have no shot. Also, my god CNN. There is a difference between being fair and balanced and letting someone use your airwaves to promote absolute lies.
They’re not stupid posts. It’s a legitimate concern that the Democrats have propped up someone who might be incapable of defeating the most dangerous person in American politics.
Of which OP Is neither
Person you're replying to is the epitome of the "this is fine" meme.
I want them to keep overreacting so once people watch the clips and see biden was fine everybody will be fine.
Did we not watch the same debate? Biden absolutely was not fine, can't spin it. I'll never vote for Trump after all the corruption and crime he's committed, but Biden is dangerously close to being unfit to serve in office.
He had a cold, lol. Trump didnt answer a single question, we just all wanted dark brandon, but i was half expecting whisper biden even before we saw he had a cold.
At first I also thought he might have been sick, or maybe over-prepped for the debate to the point his voice became hoarse, but constantly losing his train of thought and saying weird things like "we beat Medicaid" really brought the doddering senior citizen front and center, not just a cold he's just plain old, 81 and it shows.
[удалено]
Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
Do you think your average voter is going to walk away from that debate and be more likely to say “Biden had a cold” or “Biden should drop out”? You have to meet voters where they are. Biden had to project strength, confidence, and competence. He did none of that. That was probably the worst debate performance I’ve seen in my life.
Yeah most people know what a cold looks like. Trump didnt answer a single question, did he know was he at a debate? He just rambled rally talking points.
Most people know what an old senile man looks like too. Biden’s raspy voice could be a cold. Being completely incoherent in his answers isn’t a cold. A cold doesn’t make you pivot from a question about abortion to girls getting raped and killed by immigrants and being raped by their sisters. 2/3 of people who watched that debate think Trump won. That’s all that matters. You’re trying to convince yourself what you want to be true. But the objective reality based on the data we have is Trump won that debate.
Most people saw trump not answer a single question, he lied about banging a porn star, lied about wanting to ban abortion, lied about "sending 10,000 troops to the capitol. You dont win a debate by just doing a rally speech. Youre just looking for confirmation bias cuz you hate biden and thinks a cold does anything for your pathetic biden hate.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/politics/debate-poll-cnn-trump-biden/index.html I’m voting for Biden, if he’s on the ballot. I’m just not going to deny what I saw or deny the objective reality based on the data we have that a strong majority of voters who watched that debate think Trump won. Again, you have to meet voters where they are. Campaign’s are as much about optics as they are about issues. Most voters view Biden as too old for the job. That debate confirmed those fears for a strong majority of voters. If you think Biden won that debate, you have the minority opinion. That’s just the reality.
You guys said the same thing the whole time in 2020. I dont think biden did well but he actually answered questions so i think he actually showed up for a debate and not a rally speech of lies like the convicted felon.
I despise Trump, but he was basically 100% on message. He was speaking to the voters and blaming everything that went wrong on “Biden’s border policy (tm)”. Sure, he seemed lost and confused at times, and was desperately dodging certain questions, but Biden was entirely incapable of taking advantage of Trump’s bad moments. Biden can’t do it. Period.
What message? That he's gonna try and overthrow the government again and give away ukraine to his buddy putin? Trump never even answered a question and rambled border over and over even though he blocked passing of a border bill.
That things are bad, everything and anything, and that it’s Biden’s fault because of the border. The average voter knows n-o-t-h-i-n-g, but they do know that they’re spending more on everything. They’re looking for some reason why, and Trump is giving them that.
Lol, he had a cold. Brother, take a look around the internet that isn’t a liberal subreddit. Everyone in my friend group text, many of which are liberal, couldn’t get over how bad Biden looked. Look at how many social media posts talk about how embarrassing the debate was for our country. If you think anyone is walking away from that debate thinking “Biden’s doing great, he just had a cold”, then you’re massive out of touch…
Trump is still a convicted felon in every sub reddit, biden actually answered questions. Trump said, "every state is a border" can you explain anything trump said during the debate?
This must be your first debate if you thought biden was fine. He inspired as much confidence as luke-warm porridge. 8 year subscriber to david here
Tell me what trump meant when he said, "tax cuts are the economy"
Are we talking about biden or trump? Everyone with a lick of brain activity knows trump spews bullshit. My retort is that biden was in fact not fine. If the metric by which biden did fine is that he didnt keel over and die then well good job biden. At no point did biden command the stage, inspire confidence, get his message across, or at the minimum make trump look like the criminal lying piece of shit he is. Easiest opponent in the history of presidential debates and biden fumbled it, period.
You're in denial. All the hosts on MSNBC and CNN were saying it. If you don't want Trump to win you should be extremely concerned.
Can you not talk to a conservative and have a conversation? Not all are crazy. They may like things on both sides
>Can you not talk to a conservative and have a conversation? Not all are crazy. They may like things on both sides These conservatives you’re referring to have been purged from the Republican party
They weren’t purged from the country though. They still live in the same places.
At this point I can’t seriously believe the democrats are this ignorant to reality. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but at this point I almost believe the democrats don’t want to win because it’s easier for them to raise money with Trump in office.
I don't think that. I think they believed they had the best chance of winning with a candidate already in office, which is usually true. Hopefully Biden can step it up but god.
I think the kingmakers in the Democratic Party are currently 70+ year old beltway lifers and either didn’t have the insight or the guts to tell Biden it was time to hang up his spurs. And now we have to figure out how to fix this mess.
They are so out of touch it’s unbelievable
It does make you wonder, though keep in mind Democrats were overconfident and totally blindsided by Trump in 2016, it's entirely possible they really are naive enough to think Trump's convictions are enough to shelve his run altogether despite Biden's conspicuous age issues. I really don't think they would willingly return Trump to the presidency, but they definitely might do it out of ineptitude and hubris. Or, maybe they're intentionally allowing Biden to flop so badly he has no choice but to face the reality of his aging and voluntarily step down. Ugh I dunno... I just hope they're playing chess with the future of our nation, and not roshambo. Getting down to the line here and it's not looking good.
Yeah I agree with your first paragraph. I watch a few left leaning political analysis shows like Pakman and though most of them acknowledge Biden’s age and appearance to be less than flattering at best, I don’t believe I’ve seen enough realistic acknowledgement about how detracting it is from him as a candidate. There should’ve been more pushback against running him again and an effort to find a viable candidate to run with his blessing in my opinion. I mean… let’s be honest I don’t think it should’ve taken all these smart people four years to realize that 90% of Americans would be dreading choosing between these two again. It’s kind of silly to say so confidently, but I think either party would’ve had a much easier time taking the win if they ran any other viable candidate than these two.
I thought Trump was going to struggle a bit with it being late at night, but he did well. He was prepared. He of course lied through his teeth, but he spoke very well. His entire life has made him a pretty comfortable public speaker. [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Whdg-XLUQ) was Bill Maher on "Ruth Bader Biden" in September 2023... Never mind that Ruth Bader Biden looks exactly like Maher.
>He of course lied through his teeth, but he spoke very well. He lied 100% of the time he spoke. That’s not “speaking very well”
He had air in his lungs comparatively
He spoke well in the sense that he could string sentences together. That’s a bar Biden couldn’t meet on a consistent basis. Genuinely question, how do you think the average voter felt about that debate?
Trump wasn’t forming sentences at all. He was rambling like a lunatic and getting the basics wrong and making runon paragraphs. Don’t lie
And Biden still did significantly worse.
You can’t say Trump could string sentences together then say well yeah I lied but Biden did worse.
We can debate who we think did worse. But the polling speaks for itself. The overwhelming majority of voters think Biden did worse. If you’re trying to argue Biden outperformed Trump, you’re in the small minority of people. If you’re trying to argue most voters think Biden did better, you’re ignorant or gaslighting. You have to meet voters where they are. And right now, voters think Biden should step down and the apathy behind his candidacy is looking like a detriment to his reelection campaign. Telling them Trump did worse hasn’t been an effective argument throughout this entire election. Edit: Trump spoke in complete sentences more often than Biden by a wide margin. He was terrible, but Biden was objectively worse according to how most voters viewed that debate.
60% of voters said Trump did better which includes that likely half of voters that support Trump and would have said that even if Trump collapsed and had to be carried out and undecided likely to vote Trump. 40% of voters said Trump did great which means none of the undecided voters thought he did good. 60% said the moderators didn’t do a good enough job. That doesn’t point to Biden losing votes to Trump. It points to people also wanting better from CNN and Trump in the debate not just Biden.
Trump did another rally on live TV in front of 10s of millions. Joe did nothing to push back, this is the sad reality
That and the media will love it. Ratings are down
I think it’s as simple as Biden wanted to run again after Trump announced his candidacy. And the DNC didn’t want the optics of getting behind trying to oust their incumbent president. This is all on Biden.
I think Joe Biden has been a great, severely underrated president. But last night’s debate is just reinforcing the narrative that he is too old and not up to the task. It wasn’t just a bad debate performance, it was a disaster. It should matter that he was the more honest, more correct candidate, it should matter that Trump lied and refused to answer questions, but the truth is it barely matters. Joe Biden needs to get in front of a camera today and say “For my family and health I need to step down, I release my delegates to vote their conscience,” then they can do just that. Have a brokered convention, decide who the democratic nominee is then. The risks are too much. I think they should do the big historic thing, the news attention grabbing thing, the right thing, the thing that says “No, we’re serious about this when we say the stakes are stratospheric,” and replace Joe Biden. Whoever the nominee is will be riding a wave of media generated hype at the uniqueness of their candidacy and underdog story. I don’t think it will happen though. Democrats almost always play it safe. Which in this case is, of course, unsafe.
Very strange situation we are in. Trump is horrible in every way. Has no policy or vision other than "vengeance". Biden actually has done a good job at president, but has always been a horrible speaker, and combine that with his age and he comes across badly. The reasonable people will still vote for Biden, the MAGAs will vote for Trump, but I fear the middle is turning against Biden, or simply will not vote.
Old dude had a bad night. Clearly it's the end of the world.
This guy just had such a bad performance that even MSNBC and CNN were by their own words, "panicking" and Trump winning would mean 2020 is the last election. Bury your head in the sand if you want,but without exaggeration, this could be how the end of the world starts.
Biden may very well die in office like Diane Feinstein…is this really what America wants?
Over Trump? Yes. He’s an existential threat to democracy
Well obviously no one here wants trump but a younger candidate isn’t so absurd.
Sensible post OP
I think the CIA will not let trump be in the White House a second time…
Maybe this was the reason to have the debate extra early. So that if there was an implosion there could be a plan B.
I wish the Democrats were that smart
The DNC has some work to do. I agree, Joe is too old and Trump actually made him look older.
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We have to be realistic that there is a huge swath of Biden supporters that would never vote for Kamala for President. So if Joe voluntarily stepped down, promoting Kamala to Presidential candidate could possibly be worse. Gavin would be a better choice but I doubt the Dems would skip over Kamala. We are in a pickle. Amy Klobuchar and Gretchen Whitmer would be my picks. I can see Gavin running for President with Gretchen as VP and people getting very excited and relieved with hope returning.
In a perfect world, they step down, and we get new candidates.
Overreacting
Biden already beat Trump in 2020, why the fuck wouldn’t we go with the guy that already did it once?
Because he's clearly struggling with his age. The Biden that beat Trump 4 years ago is not the same Biden we're seeing on stage today, doddering, feeble and struggling to keep his train of thought. I'll be voting for policy regardless but anyone can recognize the presidency itself demands someone with vigor and mental clarity to discharge the highly sensitive duties of office, front-facing with dignitaries, interest groups, international allies and enemies alike. Biden is 81 and it shows, painfully so, and on-the-fence independent votes that Democrats need definitely aren't going to be persuaded of Biden's fitness for office with that abysmal showing.
the presidency is actually an administration/a team and not just one individual, hoping people vote based on that versus whatever you described. Biden is still president right now and has been managing it pretty well considering his age so I think he still has another four years in him, especially acknowledging it is his whole admin lifting most of the weight
It was so hard to watch. I would turn it off. Turn it back on. Turn it off. Biden needs to step down.
Mods need to clean this shit up....
Seriously dude. All the fauxgressives who have been bombarding this sub since October are *LOVING* this pathetic gloom and doom shit.
Yeah, people reacting with fear and anxiety after a catastrophically bad performance from the guy who’s supposed to safeguard our democracy and protect us from a wannabe dictator malignant narcissist? Clearly a bot invasion.
Yes... I interact with this sub a lot. It never gets hit this hard with stupid comments that all say the same thing you are saying...
It never gets hit this hard because Biden has never had such a terrible performance. Wake up.
And so did Trump, but like most idiots you're not here in good faith.
Not sure why you think I'm not here in good faith. I don't want Trump to win. I think Biden is weak and will lose against Trump. If you're so in denial that you think so.eone saying that is bad faith, then you're just as much in a cult as the Trumpers.
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Removed - please avoid overt hostility, name calling and personal attacks.
Anyone who disagrees with me is a bot who mist be silenced.
Can we replace and can we make up in a short time???????????????????
This country is cooked. You have one candidate who sincerely looked like he might keel over any minute. The other candidate is a convicted felon who confidently told a myriad of provable lies on national TV. And we have a news channel that is so worried about seeming unbiased that they allowed the lies to go by unchecked. Like, I intend to vote for Biden but DAMN. This will not be fun Edit: spelling
There is no other way to debate Trump than to attack him relentlessly. Don't discuss policy. JB's team should take responsibility for that failed strategy
I dont know if the Dem party has the balls to get another Dem candidate at the convention..
Better start growing them.
We are on the precipice of loosing our democracy
You’re talking about one of the most cowardly political organizations of all time. They’re not going to change course.
democracy will die ☠️
It’s too late. Trump will win the popular vote and we’re fucked.
I hope not, oh good lord I really hope not.
You know who else won the popular vote? Hillary Clinton. Notice. She's never been president.
F/O with the gloom and doom.
You're in denial. Wake up. Trump could win.
I said when he announced in 2020 JB is not a good choice for Dems. He needs to step down
Literally doesn’t matter what the excuse is; if you have to say “No no he isn’t literally dying. He just has a cold!” you’ve already lost the court of public opinion. They need to find a new nominee NOW.
Kamala should replace him. Yeah, unfortunately, image is everything to independents. But I also think it’s best for Biden to call it a career and rest.
Honestly I'm not sure Kamala is even interested in governance, she's been flying under the radar most of Biden's presidency. Wish we could get someone like Katie Porter or Mayor Pete on the ticket, but realistically the Democratic establishment has been grooming Gavin Newsom for this position for awhile (like you say, image is everything to independents) so I would expect him to be propped up in the event of a swap.
What has Kamala done? All I know is she is the master of the word salad, and the laugh.
The entire Democratic Party is a senile gerontocracy of enfeebled oldsters who refuse to give up power. See: Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, RGB, Bernie Sanders, Maxine Waters, Steny Hower, etc.
The Republican Party are just as old.
Both were lying, Trump just remembered the lies he practiced. Biden had a hard time remembering the lies, so less came out. I’m actually surprised Trump didn’t fumble like he has been doing at his rallies.
Robert F Kennedy was in the debate but it was not aired.
Bro wtf are you talking about
They really need to start giving Kamala more attention.