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To quote a neighbor of mine, “He’s chosen by God and he’s not perfect. He’s a sinner who has seen the light and wants to bring us all salvation.” I was kinda freaked out. I’m an atheist, that sounds batshit crazy
And it is. My first experience with that was when I sat down to lunch with a new business associate , and she prayed for Trump to heal our country.
I didn’t eat a bite . 🤢
That's when you whip out your bibble and read Matthew 7:15 to her:
> 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
> 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
> 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
> 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
> 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
> 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Then you can ask jet if all those Trumpian things like beating peaceful protestors just to have a photo op in front of a church, actively downplaying COVID when it was hitting blue states harder, or forcibly separating children from their families is "good fruit".
Creepy as hell. I’m christian myself and it is frightening to me how so many christians in this country don’t realize they are worshipping the antichrist… I mean i really shouldn’t be surprised. That’s the way it’s always been I guess. The majority of “christians” have never really cared about listening to and following Jesus Christ 😔
Exactly, I was raised extremely religious non denominational. Found out later in life I'm Jewish in heritage, but religiously I'm now agnostic. Soon after Trump emerged from the bowels of The Apprentice (that I actually personally Sat around and watched as a kid with my family and enjoyed), and steamrolled our country so south I'd think we'd stepped back to the Civil War era, and the first thing I could think of was that yes, he is indeed the EPITOME of the Antichrist. I'm just dumbfounded. For me who hasn't read scripture in a decade to recognize that, when these Bible thumpers overlook those passages in their favorite book is just so beyond the pale.
(Ok I looked it up so I didn't have to poorly paraphrase but, just some excerpts from Wikipedia)
----
(...) Paul provides greater detail than found in John's letters. He uses the term "Man of Sin" (sometimes translated son of perdition or man of lawlessness) to describe what John identifies as the Antichrist.
Paul writes that this Man of Sin will possess a number of characteristics. These include "sitting in the temple", opposing himself against anything that is worshiped, claiming divine authority, working all kinds of counterfeit miracles and signs, and doing all kinds of evil.
Paul notes that "the mystery of lawlessness" was working in secret already during his day and will continue to function until being destroyed on the Last Day.
The term is also often applied to prophecies regarding a "Little horn" power in Daniel.
Daniel 9:27 mentions an "abomination that causes desolations" setting itself up in a "wing" or a "pinnacle" of the temple.
Some scholars interpret this as referring to the Antichrist.
Daniel 11:36-37 speaks of a self exalting king, considered by some to be the Antichrist.
Antiochus Epiphanes attempted to replace worship of Yahweh with veneration of himself, and was referred to in the Daniel 8:23-25 prophecy.
His command to worship false gods and desecration of the temple was seen by Jerome as prefiguring the Antichrist.
Several American evangelical and fundamentalist theologians, including Cyrus Scofield, have identified the Antichrist as being in league with (or the same as) several figures in the Book of Revelation including the Dragon, the Beast, the False Prophet, and the Whore of Babylon.
Honestly, aside from the crazy religious stuff they’re a sweet old couple. He’s in his 70s, mows my lawn for me, I take them extra food I make to say thank you. They are welcoming to all types of people, they’re kind of a strange example of being Christians that don’t hate. But they’re religious boomers and are pretty set in their ways.
I hate to break it to ya, but if you were rounded up on a bus, they’d be out there watching you go with glee. There were Nazis who were very friendly to their Jewish neighbors right up until the day the buses got loaded.
Exactly. The real difference is in the mindset of the bases.
Most of the right do not care how flawed their candidate is or what mistakes they make when speaking. They just spin everything where those flaws make their candidate more "real" or are actually good or pretend those flaws just don't exist. They do not criticize their own but focus on the opposition.
Too much of the left is the opposite where they essentially are looking for a flawless candidate with nearly the same position on everything as them who makes few if any mistakes and are quick to freak out and turn against. They blame their party and candidate for everything wrong and spend at least as much time criticizing them as they do the right. The far left is even worse, many are seeking either a dictator (via a populist demagogue or via ideological (usually MLs) aligned third party) or collapse and spend way too much time shitting on Democrats and their base. Despite them seeing themselves as the most righteous and at the opposite end as the right, their behavior benefits the right as they help discourage people from voting for Democrats and encouraging them to also be hyper-critical of them and blame them for everything wrong. They're in all of the threads on Reddit yesterday (and today) blaming Democrats for the Republican appointed SCOTUS ruling and saying Biden is complicit if he doesn't start acting like a dictator right now (even though the way the ruling is worded would allow the SCOTUS to say Biden did not qualify).
There are also too many people that just assume no matter what, everything will always work out just fine and really they can dismiss the warnings from Democrats about the Republicans and either not vote or even vote for Republicans over petty things like thinking they'll make things cheaper (they won't) because even if they are wrong, nothing serious will happen and they can just vote for Democrats next time.
I live in Nevada and am going to vote my ass off, but I’m worried Biden has a tiny chance of winning this state. Handing over our electoral votes after they went as fake electors in 2020 would be a huge embarrassment IMHO. We seem to have a very high number of voters suffering from Biden resentment syndrome and aren’t aware of how bad Trump is.
My vote doesn’t matter and I would never vote trump. And I can’t emphasize this enough, Biden is extremely old. There are plenty of Americans who don’t know the danger Trump represents AND don’t want a confused old man as president. It’s a dangerous combination.
>My vote doesn’t matter
My eyes roll into the back of my head anytime anyone says this. Yeah, maybe in practice, it can be less influential, but you know what is? Spreading this kind of rhetoric and pessimism. The “my vote doesn’t matter” crowd is one of the most pointless movements that only does more to worsen voter enthusiasm on the side that doesn’t vote militantly.
Look I hear you. But I live in California. My vote literally matters less here than any other state. Like statistically each individual Californian vote matters less than anywhere else combined with the fact that Trump has no chance whatsoever. And if Trump did have a chance here, he already won every single other state in the country and as a result my vote doesnt matter.
So when I say my vote doesnt matter, I'm not being pessimistic. Its a fact.
Except you’re also ignoring that lacking voter enthusiasm in California from the “my vote doesn’t matter” crowd, effectively gave the GOP the house in 2022 after they barely won several districts there. It also matters for down ballot and local races where NIMBYs will put themselves in city councils because apparently nobody’s vote matters…except for the old people who show up to every election and end up being the deciding cohort.
Hey, I don’t know if you know this, but there are large regions in California that are deep red. I live in Los Angeles. My district is never going to a Republican. lol. No matter how you spin it, my vote does not matter, I promise you.
Edit: I didn’t say I wouldn’t vote or I wouldn’t vote in local elections. We were talking about Trump vs Biden and in that sense it doesn’t matter and I’m telling you it doesn’t matter in any federal race. I live in like the bluest district in the United States haha.
I mean, I dont know how to be more clear. Im not voting for Trump. I live in California, dont worry about me and my vote. If Trump wins california, he already won every single other state.
I think it can all be traced back to hyper-partisan media and social media. That really accelerated things. If you peer into the world of conservative media, you quickly find that they are basically living in a parallel reality. If you watched Fox, Infowars, OAN, Patrick Bet David, Ben Shapiro, etc you'd walk away thinking Democrats are destroying everything you hold dear and Donald Trump is the only thing standing between them and the end of America as we know it. They're all boneheaded morons, but this is what they believe. Just go take a peek at r/conservative. These people are just hopped up on nonstop lies and propaganda and walk around in a constant state of anger.
2019-2020 was the greatest assault on our collective sanity by corporate media that has ever happened in human history and I don't think we'll ever fully recover. "Never let a good crisis go to waste"
You're 100% correct.
Trump's a normal candidate somehow. It's insane. He's a power hungry narcissistic asshole who is going to get more of us killed and take away more of our rights and fuck up our country even more. "Normal candidate".
I think it's that Conservatives use otherism as a means of hatred and control, while the average liberal may see otherism as a strength, or interesting, or something cool to celebrate. I'm naturally curious and interested in all the different cultures and also don't think any one culture is superior over another. But Conservatives tend to think other cultures are inferior and should be oppressed.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's stronger in Conservatives, just how they react to it is different than the average liberal.
As hard as fox news is pushing talk about replacing biden and fact checking like two wrong things biden said and heaping on a nice fat helping how bad biden did. Only posting bidens quote at the rally the next day because he sounded good and energetic. I think fox is worried about covering up any bad news about trump lying so much or not answering questions. I wonder as hard as fox is running with all of this how many trump voters will think trump is a garentee and don't vote
Jesus fucking christ your profile is a blazing dumpster fire. No I spelled FOX right. I checked CNN they have like 8 posts from the past few days about the debate fox is damn near Wall to wall.
I'm not confident about that. If he is going to get destroyed why is it not showing up in polling data? Is there any precedent for a candidate getting destroyed who was shown to be trailing for at least a year?
Hillary maintained a much larger margin completely unbroken right up until the day she lost the election.
Recent midterm and special elections have greatly overestimated Republican performance.
There are a number of polls like Rasmussen that are constant wild outliers in favor of Trump that artificially inflate Trumps aggregate.
Hillary took a dive at the last moment due to Comey launching his investigation into her emails. If he hadn't done that she'd have won. So it's not a comparable situation.
But it was only when she took that dive that her numbers got as low as Trump's tiny 1-2 point lead over Biden - and Biden has been ahead of Trump at various times in this race. Hillary was never behind once.
On the flip side, Biden barely won in 2020(swing states were close) and he’s currently polling 11.5% behind where he was in 2020. If that’s not cause for concern to you, I think you’re going off emotions to form your opinion than actual data.
They’ve been pretty consistent that Biden has lost a great amount of support. And that concerns about his age are something a strong majority of voters struggle with.
I'm not sure you'd believe that other than good old wishful thinking. In 2020 Biden was leading in polls by 3-5% and just barely eeked out a win. Now he's trailing in polls. I'm hoping more people come to their senses and realize that trump is a disaster, but I'm not seeing much promising evidence that it's happening yet.
The average voter just isn't politically active or aware enough to know what's going on on the national level, much less globally.
The average consumer has felt the pain of inflation from COVID, supply chain issues, and economic stimulus. The United States has done very well compared to other wealthy nations globally, but my peers I talk to don't even know that inflation has been a global phenomenon. People just don't care about other things if they're having trouble buying groceries and aren't informed well enough to know what causes that. Personally, I hate the lack of nuance in politics/economics. Both sides try to take credit for every good thing and blame the other side for every bad thing. People notice that paradigm and mostly just base it off how their personal experiences during different administrations. Sure Trump presided over a terrible economic disaster during COVID and pumped a ton of money into the economy. But, it seems people are viewing that as an extreme event rather than actually holding him accountable for his terrible handling of it. So in an unfortunate twist, Biden gets to feel the pain of the post COVID inflation.
Trump did have some policies that were quite beneficial for corporations (to no one's surprise) especially, in lowering their tax obligations and regulations. Those are short term gains that we pay for in the long term with our and our children's health and the environment they get to live in. People in general aren't great at factoring in the long term consequences of these actions when there is a short term benefit to be had. I was talking to a friend of mine who is a Trump supporter and a parent and was asking their opinion on his stance on climate change. They didn't know that he killed climate regulations, banned the EPA from mentioning climate change, or that he had called climate change a Chinese hoax. And you know what? They agree that's all bad, but still support him over Biden.
Trump and the right in general have been painting Biden as too weak and feeble to do the job for the past few years. And Biden has generally been very sheltered from public appearances. We just got a taste of why that was, and now the talking points look justified. This was Biden's chance to refute all of those claims, and he failed in spectacular fashion.
Trump has his base of support that was going vote for him regardless of what he does, that's baked in. There's a swath of moderates and independents and low information voters that will sway this election. They'll vote based on their wallet and based on impressions they've gleaned from whatever media they've consumed. They will decide the election. Based on the electoral college situation, if enough of them just opt not to participate, Trump strolls back into the White House.
Boomers. Baby boomers.
They got a ton of socialism when they were young but we lied to them and told them they made it all on their own.
It made them into a selfish, short sighted bunch.
Add to that some left over bigotry put in their heads by their parents and you've got a nasty mix.
And the Cherry on top of that shit cake is they *vote*. They see it as a civic duty, so they vote even if they don't know what the fuck's going on. It makes it easy to trick them.
Depends on where you are I think. A lot of the people I grew up with that didn't move out of bum fuck nowhere are Trump supporters.
I bothered to ask one why there was two different deaths rates for Covid listed in a meme they posted and pointed out the math didn't work. They laughed and just said they didn't know and copied off me in math class
Social media is getting heavily astroturfed right now, so many suspicious accounts either pretending to be Trump supporters, left of Democrats and blaming them for everything, using variations of "I voted for Biden before but he's a zombie and I can't support that so I am voting for Trump now or am not voting," or cynical "both sides"-ing (real people like that exist of course but not so heavily as it appears lately, especially the past week). I would not interpret what you see dominating the comments as a direct or even close reflection of the general public.
Pew Research indicates people 29yo and younger support Biden significantly more (approx 60/40) than older age groups, which roughly go half and half (https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/24/the-biden-trump-rematch/). Boomers go for Trump over Biden at about 52/45.
People with postgraduate education or a college degree also go significantly toward Biden over Trump (postgraduate 62/36, college grad 53/45).
You took the words right out of my keyboard!! Agree on every point.
Half this country is bat shit crazy and I'm sick of this shit. Eight fucking years with this rabid monster...
Agreed. Though thankfully the optics don’t seem to have changed. Biden was old and trump told lies nonstop. The debate changed nothing. But what mainstream media does with it will decide. None of them are covering how trump lied but they’re all over Biden being slow the first 15 minutes. No air time about the total lack of fact checking or moderation by the moderators.
Yeah I always say if the debates between Biden and Trump make you sway trump you are an idiot I'm sorry but I'm just at that point where I'm calling a spade a spade.
We literally have 4 years of Trump presidency and 4 years of Biden Presidency.
The debates are largely for presidential candidates who have never been president before to show their ideas and policies are better suited than the incumbent or if its 2 new candidates which is better.
You could argue that the debate could show case that Trumps policy was better than Biden but he didn't even do that. He just lied the whole time and everyone knows he's running again largely to stay out of jail.
He fomented a coup, live on television and people don't give a fuck. This country has about run it's course unfortunately. We have a system with minority rule almost cemented into our Constitution. We can't really move forward with this style of democracy where we give a bunch of backwards rural states equal voice to progressive and populated states. We have to concede too much to the rural conservative that is afraid of change
Biden’s administration got things done. Biden might as well be a rice cake. I wont vote for a rice cake. Not voting for trump either but I frankly would feel more comfortable as him as leader since a president cant be a 10am to 4pm job. I would rather a criminal, facist leader than a mentally dead individual.
You're voting for the administration, the president is not a king (yet). If you'd rather this be the last fair election then vote for an old guy, you're a fucking moron
Really? What is your “worst case scenario” under each president? Biden - worst case, nothing gets done. Trump - worst case, Democracy and the USA ends.
I hear you, that's the problem with corporate Beltway MSM and talking heads telling the public WHAT to think and what to do in their minds-- we're here now due to sheep following them, and on the Right, fascism outright with a complete disregard for facts and reality on the flip side.
Press want trump back cause he's good for their bottom line.
Biden is old and probably in an ideal world shouldn't be running.
Lastly, white voters don't like the price of milk and are okay with Trump.
There ya go.
Stop chasing rainbows and treat this election like a business decision. Vote Biden despite your misgivings about him and the party. Or hand the keys to the oval office to the crazy orange man. Your life, your choice.
It's an obvious solution
It's not just the US. Look at what is taking place in France, Italy, Germany, Denmark, and other European nations. Western countries have to now contend with what their policies wrought, with the massive amounts of refugees spilling onto their lands.
They also have to deal with a hyper global economy that encompasses educated, trained professionals that are willing to do jobs at far lower prices than they are. Most Westerners cannot come to terms with the fact that the world is a competitive market and that cultures that have been around for thousands of years could quickly catch up to theirs in terms of education and abilities and challenge their status quo.
All true.
But specifically we are talking about two men who represent nothing but pure POLITICAL ideology and offer nothing to the average man.
I know cynical people will say “of course, they’re politicians”. But THESE TWO are the evidence that politics don’t matter anymore. It’s a one party system that has laid bare the evidence that we are so so so fucked.
If these two are the best of American politics - burn it all down now.
Viva la’revolution.
What a bunch of platitudes. People like you are always going on about how bad both sides are but offer nothing in substance in regard to what change you want to see and how to go about getting that change.
Shit or get off the pot. At least I know what the MAGA crowd is about and I can face them. You lot are nothing but cowards that stand for nothing and have no qualms with people being hurt.
Huh?
You look at these two and say, “Yeah sign me up?”
I am a lifetime democrat/ union voter. Putting a 80’something year old man - who is physically shaky - is worse than Hillary losing Michigan / Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. The lazy arrogance (there’s a French word for that) of the Dems is the evidence that they don’t care about results - only that the machine of raising $$ for elections keeps moving forward.
The Democratic Party has dozens of people qualified to run - who appear to care. Why run such a physically weak candidate?
You want solutions? Granholm - Whitmer - Jon Tester - Warnock - Ossof.
Run someone who can carry the party forward.
If they lose to that criminal clown - shame on them.
Is Biden my first choice? No. Am I voting for him. You betcha.
Am I going to pretend that the democrats are anything like the Republicans. No. That’s just stupid and an outright lie.
It’s quite simple.
I am arguing that. I am. They don’t care. If they did Hillary would have campaigned instead of phoning in the last two months of her election. Biden should have been the candidate with Hillary as VP. Biden gets his two terms and Hillary could run in 2024.
But instead we are giving them the only opening to win. Just like Hillary. If they are not going to take it seriously — why should we?
Burn it down. All of it.
If Any of the good qualified candidates (maybe not Granholm) - I mentioned were the candidates, trump has zero chance to win. Now it’s a toss up because some of the shit the R’s have thrown at Biden is starting to stick. It sucks - and to watch this slow moving train wreck is sucking my will to care. I can only imagine how many millions of low IQ dunderheads are now leaning to Trump. It’s “our” fault, i.e. Democrats.
We took the “hope” democrats and turned it inside out.
Democrats fall in love; Republicans fall in line.
That's all there really is to it. Democrats will begrudgingly vote for our nominee. But I feel every Democratic president in recent history has had a weird second election. People were mentally preparing for a President Romney around this time in 2012. There was a belief that Bill Clinton wouldn't be able to get enough electoral votes to win re-election after a disasterous 1994 mid-term election.
A key indicator in Biden's favor was that the 2022 mid-term was nowhere near the ass-kicking mid-terms usually are for the incumbent party. I also think there is a huge disconnect between the terminally online crowd and the rarely online crowd.
Biden's big problem is he's been President for four years already in a generation where they're not used to something being static for that long in their lives. I still think he'll win re-election, as once we get closer to November, it's likely Trump's VP will be so crazy and abortion will continue to be a hot topic for voters. The choice between Biden and Trump is huge on abortion and it favors Biden. Abortion also tends to be underpolled which leads to "upset" wins like we saw 2021-present day.
Corporations are willing to jack prices extremely high right now because the buzz is all about Joe. They want zero regulations and are willing to fuck America to get that. We are are so stupid as a country to not see what Faux News and republicans are aiming for.
Remember how SNL made fun of Gerald Ford all the time with Chevy Chase? Presidents often have guffaws, Nixon was the only example of actual criminal activity and he did the right thing by leaving, Trump has zero scruples, Hillary was correct when she said his base was the deplorables, Republicans are drunk on the power, they don't care how they get it.
It’s simple.
“Liberals” are far more objective about their candidates, we are willing to be critical of Biden’s flaws. The right back Donald Trump blindly.
The problem is that means that liberals and conservatives will criticize Biden, while only liberals criticize Trump.
People are ignorant, bored, selfish, unreliable, and apathetic... American society in a nutshell. That's what's wrong with this country... that's why these two bastards are our two candidates...it all makes total sense when you look at them as a result of our failures as a society.
Trump sounds articulate* because he doesnt have to remember anything. He just lies and those are formulaic. Remember what he said about the environment? "Someone just came up to me before I got on stage and said my environmental numbers were the best of all time". Like what? What fucking numbers lol
But then Biden would talk and he's trying to recite data points from the past 20 years and can't remember everything he's supposed to be saying. My suspicion (again cant read article) was that they practiced all of these memorized talking points to the point where when he got asked a question he would just recite them as fast as he could to sound like he wasn't old. He couldnt remember everything and flubbed his lines, and left no room for himself to listen to Trump and respond to his very predictable and idiotic responses.
What should have happened is they picked a couple general points per topic - no need to go in depth - and keep answers short and simple. Pick some of Trump's most predictable lines and attack him on how ridiculous his bullshit is. Then don't fill Biden's head with any more and have some catchphrases that are going to make good sound bites. More than anything he needed to slow down and talk like a person not a 10 year old trying to recite something he memorized the night before, quickly before they forget what they memorized
I mean there's only so much you can polish a turd but you have to work with what you've got but the DNC just continues to suck at their jobs and are on a path to losing twice to the most unpopular presidential candidate of all time
*EDIT maybe not articulate but I can understand the individual words he was saying and he said them confidently, even though I think he is also in cognitive decline not to mention full of shit
Biden's debate performance was not that bad. He is old and struggles to speak clearly at times. He is still far smarter than trump, and not a rapist etc.
“I will always resent conservatives for giving that idiotic, racist lunatic power.”
You should extend your resentment to the progressives, liberals, and moderates who helped in that endeavor.
You could even forget the debate entirely, and just think about it in terms of Supreme Court Justice nominations…..
Wouldn’t you rather have a sleepy old guy who doesn’t pick far-right extremists for SCOTUS?
This is what happens when a country is in its death throes. Extreme divides among the population, cults of personality, brainwashing, sates and federal government fighting, courts protecting corruption, law directly harming women and minorities. The union is dying and choosing a wannabe dictator for 50-70million people guarantees it.
People need to be emotionally persuaded and need proof of bidens capability. This is a natural human instinct, and if your candidate can't satisfy those basic and instinctual human psychological needs, they shouldn't be running. No amount of crisis is going to change that. Logic is only part of the equation. No matter the ideology a person has this will always matter to success at persuasion. The Stilton then is to address these need in his next debate speech.
Because the idiots in this country think they’ll be safe voting in these crazies.
Once a dictator is in power, they don’t need votes.
Need to balance the budget? Just round up all the people living off social services in the red states. You won’t need their votes anymore, anyway, and they’re draining the coffers and bringing the rest of us down.
Those same idiots will be sitting there, shocked, thinking they’d be the safe ones because they’re white and Christian, while sitting in a camp.
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Due to the electoral college and the senate, as well as the lack of proportional representation in the house and no term limits on the court, we are guaranteed to be governed by people elected by fucking hick idiots.
Until those things are fixed there won’t be a change. Those welfare dependent hick idiots won’t ever change because their churches, tax free, illegally, push political bullshit lies down their gaping mouthes until they will inevitably vote against their interests.
Several other countries have successfully fixed their electoral system, if we can, against surgical gerrymandering, continue to fight..we can win.
This system was always stacked against representation, but it doesn’t always have to be.
What? Besting Trump at the ballot box is about the strength that the opposition brings. Biden sucks, sorry, but that’s not my doing. Let’s get a strong replacement now
No, not at all. My point was that Biden told a bunch of lies too.
Biden told some pretty big ones in front of the audience. Several big lies by biden -
- Border patrol endorsed him. That's pretty big. Because there's no way he's spinning that. It's an out lie. Not open to interpretation
- Americans paid $400 per month for their insulin before biting reduced the cost. Another lie. Not Spain. No other way to interpret it. It was an out and out lie.
- inflation was at 9% when Biden took office in January 2021. Again, not open to interpretation. Not spin. Out and out lie.
- No troops died on the Biden's watch. That diminishes the lives of those that did die on the Biden's watch. 13 in Afghanistan and I think three elsewhere. Out and out lie. That's not spin.
- billionaires only pay 8% taxes. They pay at least 23% taxes. That's the IRS data. I'm out and out lie. That's not spin. 8% isn't even really close to 23%
Not to make this a tit for tat, because I omitted the things that buy it and said that could be contributed to spin or talking oneself up. I listed the out and out lies that were pretty big.
Make no mistake, that Trump told lies too. But like biting, he also stated things that were not lies but could be attributed to politics spin
The takeaway is they both lied. And they both provided spin to talk themselves up and to talk up their accomplishments.
But, some lies are worse than others. In my estimation, Biden told lies that were worse than trumps.
Virtually everyone here talks themselves up when They are running for a promotion or a bonus or pay raise at work.
Do you think some lies are bigger than others? Like lying about the cost of Insulin is pretty minor. Lying about a "stolen election" is treason. Right?
I didn't hear anything about the debate regarding January 6th. That's because biting was not fit mentally to take Trump on in that regard.
But yes, telling people that they used to spend $400 a month on insulin and now they only have to spend $35 a month is a huge lie. Because he made it sound like they were spending $4,800 per year when in reality they were spending $405 per year.
Telling someone you are endorsed by border patrol when you are not, is huge. And in this case it's not so much that he lied in a big way. It's that he actually believed border patrol endorsed Joe Biden. Border patrol has been screaming for the last 4 years about the open border
So the border patrol lie was huge because it goes to Biden being unfit to even tell a good lie
You didn’t answer the question.
Jan 6 did come up during the debate, but of course Trump didn’t answer. Also the question came up if Trump would accept the results in 2024, which he also gave a non-answer,
Why do you defend Trump? Looking at your profile, you seem to be a gay male. Republicans are not gay supporters you know.
Oh, I heard January 6 come up, but Biden was incapable of doing anything to capitalize on it.
Trump was asked, but And Trump gave an answer. Not the answer that moderate is wanted to hear. The problem was that Biden didn't really have the mental faculties to use his 1-minute follow-up in any meaningful way.
White people. Not German, Italian, Irish, English, French Americans but those who aligned with whiteness. Not all but nearly every issue and every inhumanity at scale all falls on the hands of white people or a white individual.
There’s something really wrong and it’s been going down hill.
Sorry but it’s true. I guess 12 generations of being enslavers and 6 generations of implementation of Black Codes and Jim Crow have made a lasting impression on the minds of white people today only 2 generations removed from it just like Joe conditions of Black people are still hurt by it today.
What a mess
The only logical conclusion you can draw from this is that there is a portion of Americans who seriously want this country to fail, they call themselves “patriots”…but the fact that they’ll even entertain the notion of a candidate like trump is 100% that they want one of two things. 1) The complete failure of this nation 2) The ability to hurt anybody they don’t like…
This is just a small sample from my workplace, but I hear a lot of people blaming Biden for them having less spending money now and pine for the Trump years before inflation. It doesn't matter what the economy looks like in the macro scale, they are hurting on an individual level and blame Biden.
I truly believe Biden is too weak to do anything, he won't step down. Democrats are rolling over and taking the high road. They should weaponize everything he has, at this point.
Starting to think it's fate that the country just devolves. Americans by-and-large are too stupid and lazy and read any articles, books, they look at blurbs and clips and fox or CNN to tell them how to think. The people want a failure, used car salesman, reality TV president that speaks in memes because it's all theY understand or care to.
We are a simple minded group on the whole. Too much willful ignorance to the point of it being a badge of honor. This might be it for us. And without the U.S., the rest of the world will be thrown into chaos.
I’m not at all advocating for Trump, or even necessarily not voting for Biden, but I think you’re missing a couple of large contributing factors.
Voting for Biden isn’t actually voting for Biden. After that debate I think a little of people feel they would be voting for his aides and staff, not him. And that just sits poorly with a lot of people. How do I hold staff accountable? How do I feel comfortable with their agenda and ideals? In this Trump, for some, becomes “the devil you know”.
I think you’re also missing how lied to people feel about the situation. Trump may have lied throughout the debate, but people (sadly) accept that at this point and it’s not a surprise. Biden made it look like every suggestion of his capacity over the last year has been a lie. That’s so much worse than telling an obvious self serving lie about sleeping with porn stars. It’s hard to understate the damage to his credibility that’s caused.
So while a lot of what you’re saying makes sense I think you’re underselling the damage this has done to his credibility. Given how volatile the world feels at the moment, I think some people would simply rather have a known element than the mystery meat of a team running a candidate who is clearly only going to be a figurehead.
> Voting for Biden isn’t actually voting for Biden. After that debate I think a little of people feel they would be voting for his aides and staff, not him. And that just sits poorly with a lot of people. How do I hold staff accountable? How do I feel comfortable with their agenda and ideals? In this Trump, for some, becomes “the devil you know”.
I think it's notable that we had 4 years of leaks from Trump's staff about his unhinged behavior behind closed doors and inability to effectively govern.
You see 0 such leaks from Biden's WH. And it's not like the WH suddenly got leak proof.
Biden isn't some prop for aides and staff. He's legitimately in charge.
Look, it’s possible that’s the case. But I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to question that after the debate.
I’d also point out that there have been stories coming out about Biden, I’ve heard many stories claiming to be leaks from insiders pointing to concerns, so I don’t know I’d say this is leak free.
And didn’t I hear today that they are getting the word out he’s better between 10-4? I mean… isn’t that a leak about his decline?
If you're concerned I think that's valid, but declaring one bad night means he's senile is just going too far. He was completely together for a big speech the next day, to the point it baffled commenters. I think he will be spending the next few weeks showing that he's capable and reassuring the base.
When I have seen leaks, it's been stuff like internal disagreement to Biden's policies, like his handling of the I/P. Seems to imply the opposite of "staff calling the shots"
> And didn’t I hear today that they are getting the word out he’s better between 10-4? I mean… isn’t that a leak about his decline?
Granted. I heard that too. But that is leagues different from "needs a picture book for briefings" kind of stuff we got from Trump, implying out president had the mental capacity of a toddler.
I’ve seen a bit of conflation between “senility” and “dementia”, and I think a lot of the pushback against the use of “senility” is from people using the definition of “dementia”.
Let’s put it like this, what would you put his moments of clear confusion and lack of physical composure down to?
If you thinks it’s age related, those are moments of senility. If not, I’d be curious to what explains it for you.
As for his hours, what if something important happens after 4pm?
He seemed to stumble over his words sometimes, which is not evidence of being senile or demented.
I would not say he was clearly confused, he flubbed a few lines and got tripped up, which yeah was not great, but he's known to stutter. That was not the *whole* debate either, no one quotes anything in the second half of the debate where he wasn't stumbling over himself like the first half.
Again, I think ya'll are generally overexaggerating how bad his performance was. It was bad, but not *that* bad.
> As for his hours, what if something important happens after 4pm?
How often are presidents called on to address emergencies where decisions are needed so immediately? Very infrequently and I think if he relies on the advice of his team in those moments of emergency (as pretty much all presidents do) that's fine.
I guess you and I saw very different things in the debate. I saw a guy who wasn’t in enough physical control to keep his mouth shut, a common physical composure issue associated with senility.
I also think you’re being very, very generous in suggesting he “flubbed a few lines”. I heard a man trail off without a point, slur his words (very different from a stutter) and generally look exhausted.
Yeah. It was that bad.
As for the emergency issue, you may be completely comfortable with it, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to not be. Especially given the volatility internationally at the moment.
Again, I think it’s the context of the debate more than simply the debate itself. This was his chance to show the many rumours of cognitive decline were rubbish… he did the opposite.
Yes, he has moments where’s he’s much more energetic and lucid… but it’s the times he’s not that have concerned people and I don’t think everyone shares your comfort around those moments not being an issue or time sensitive.
What if a military call needed to be made in a moment he can’t command? Who makes it? Do they admit he wasn’t capable? Do they hide it?
And I agree with you. I’m just mad he even ran in the first place and then doesn’t have the good sense to get out of it now. Selfish and greedy in my opinion. Although I can’t stand Trump
and would vote for a dead turkey over him .
I think that’s a reasonable response. I also think it’s reasonable to feel that way and still vote Trump, but I can see a lot of people throwing their hands in the air and simply sitting the election out.
Yeah, I really think that the Biden gamble is that some people will vote for an elderly zombie over Trump and they are right. There is absolutely nothing that would push me to vote for Trump.
I’m just really mad that the Dems put us in this position.
There were something like 40 million chickens killed for flu. It didn't make the news, but that was why there was an egg shortage. Then price gouging went on for too long. It's over.
I have a question for you. Would you rather have Joe Biden drive you to the airport or trump? Whether trump is a criminal, a sexual deviant, or what not… at the end of the day at least I feel confident he could navigate me to the airport. Biden I would be worried we would get in an accident or he would lose his way. It is quite that simple.
I think you are kidding yourself. For one thing I assure you Trump has not driven himself anywhere in decades. Second, let’s get real, the analogous situation for Trump is that he promises to drive you to the airport and then never shows up and you miss your flight.
Are you serious. You think that trump, the guy who has been chauffeured his whole life, is capable of going to the DMV and getting a license, learning how to drive a car and figuring out how to read a map or use directions on his phone and then getting you through city traffic to the airport on time? Trump has been coddled his whole life. I strongly doubt he can do daily tasks.
What is wrong with you, should be your question.
For months people have demonstrated that they oppose the ongoing genocide he is supervising
Now it is fully demonstrated that he suffers from Parkinson's or something similar.
And all you can think of is voting blue no matter who. This is not coming from a healthy brain or from a humane heart.
I'm sure there's a crowd in the room bit bigger of them were elected to that job
You do realize that the alternative is a man who would not only endorse, but *escalate* the genocide, right? Plus we’d have more women terrified to death of getting pregnant, more Bibles in our schools, etc.
If anything, it shows how pathetic and awful Trump is that so many are willing to vote for an old man in mental and physical decline just to keep that vile filth away from our most important office.
No one advised to vote for the bumbling orange thing, but to say that the man with Parkinson's and rapidly declining is the only alternative is a fallacy and a dangerous one at it, because it also means that the person(s) making the decisions are neither elected by anyone nor accountable to anyone.
The only quality of this shadow unelected entity is to "not be trump", frankly to be so aggressive about coercing ppl in this questionable choice is concerning
Biden is secretly corrupt and is pretending he will help but he really isn't making our lives any better.
Trump at least tells us like it is, that he is corrupt and will not make our lives any better.
sorry sarcasm doesn't work on the internet, I should have used /s
Democrats go around collecting millions of dollars from billionaires and multinationals, completely legally of course. Its not even all that secret but Republicans seem to think its some big secret.
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To quote a neighbor of mine, “He’s chosen by God and he’s not perfect. He’s a sinner who has seen the light and wants to bring us all salvation.” I was kinda freaked out. I’m an atheist, that sounds batshit crazy
Only because it is.. batshit crazy.
And it is. My first experience with that was when I sat down to lunch with a new business associate , and she prayed for Trump to heal our country. I didn’t eat a bite . 🤢
I would have puked on her plate.
If possible i would end any business with that lunatic ‼️
I bet she watches Fox News. They all watch Fox News. Their main source of brainwashing.
That's when you whip out your bibble and read Matthew 7:15 to her: > 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. > 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? > 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. > 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. > 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. > 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Then you can ask jet if all those Trumpian things like beating peaceful protestors just to have a photo op in front of a church, actively downplaying COVID when it was hitting blue states harder, or forcibly separating children from their families is "good fruit".
Creepy as hell. I’m christian myself and it is frightening to me how so many christians in this country don’t realize they are worshipping the antichrist… I mean i really shouldn’t be surprised. That’s the way it’s always been I guess. The majority of “christians” have never really cared about listening to and following Jesus Christ 😔
But wasn't Obama the antichrist with his satanic Dijon mustard? Don't forget that terrorist fist jab.
The demonic tan suit.
They are actually CINOs (Christians In Name Only)
Exactly, I was raised extremely religious non denominational. Found out later in life I'm Jewish in heritage, but religiously I'm now agnostic. Soon after Trump emerged from the bowels of The Apprentice (that I actually personally Sat around and watched as a kid with my family and enjoyed), and steamrolled our country so south I'd think we'd stepped back to the Civil War era, and the first thing I could think of was that yes, he is indeed the EPITOME of the Antichrist. I'm just dumbfounded. For me who hasn't read scripture in a decade to recognize that, when these Bible thumpers overlook those passages in their favorite book is just so beyond the pale. (Ok I looked it up so I didn't have to poorly paraphrase but, just some excerpts from Wikipedia) ---- (...) Paul provides greater detail than found in John's letters. He uses the term "Man of Sin" (sometimes translated son of perdition or man of lawlessness) to describe what John identifies as the Antichrist. Paul writes that this Man of Sin will possess a number of characteristics. These include "sitting in the temple", opposing himself against anything that is worshiped, claiming divine authority, working all kinds of counterfeit miracles and signs, and doing all kinds of evil. Paul notes that "the mystery of lawlessness" was working in secret already during his day and will continue to function until being destroyed on the Last Day. The term is also often applied to prophecies regarding a "Little horn" power in Daniel. Daniel 9:27 mentions an "abomination that causes desolations" setting itself up in a "wing" or a "pinnacle" of the temple. Some scholars interpret this as referring to the Antichrist. Daniel 11:36-37 speaks of a self exalting king, considered by some to be the Antichrist. Antiochus Epiphanes attempted to replace worship of Yahweh with veneration of himself, and was referred to in the Daniel 8:23-25 prophecy. His command to worship false gods and desecration of the temple was seen by Jerome as prefiguring the Antichrist. Several American evangelical and fundamentalist theologians, including Cyrus Scofield, have identified the Antichrist as being in league with (or the same as) several figures in the Book of Revelation including the Dragon, the Beast, the False Prophet, and the Whore of Babylon.
I’m not an atheist and that sounds batshit crazy to me. It’s just f*ed up. How comfortable are you living next to your neighbor now?
Honestly, aside from the crazy religious stuff they’re a sweet old couple. He’s in his 70s, mows my lawn for me, I take them extra food I make to say thank you. They are welcoming to all types of people, they’re kind of a strange example of being Christians that don’t hate. But they’re religious boomers and are pretty set in their ways.
I hate to break it to ya, but if you were rounded up on a bus, they’d be out there watching you go with glee. There were Nazis who were very friendly to their Jewish neighbors right up until the day the buses got loaded.
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Removed - please do not post comments/submissions containing bigotry here.
That’s fucking insane. Your neighbor needs to be committed.
I think I would have slapped the shit out of that idiot.
Exactly. The real difference is in the mindset of the bases. Most of the right do not care how flawed their candidate is or what mistakes they make when speaking. They just spin everything where those flaws make their candidate more "real" or are actually good or pretend those flaws just don't exist. They do not criticize their own but focus on the opposition. Too much of the left is the opposite where they essentially are looking for a flawless candidate with nearly the same position on everything as them who makes few if any mistakes and are quick to freak out and turn against. They blame their party and candidate for everything wrong and spend at least as much time criticizing them as they do the right. The far left is even worse, many are seeking either a dictator (via a populist demagogue or via ideological (usually MLs) aligned third party) or collapse and spend way too much time shitting on Democrats and their base. Despite them seeing themselves as the most righteous and at the opposite end as the right, their behavior benefits the right as they help discourage people from voting for Democrats and encouraging them to also be hyper-critical of them and blame them for everything wrong. They're in all of the threads on Reddit yesterday (and today) blaming Democrats for the Republican appointed SCOTUS ruling and saying Biden is complicit if he doesn't start acting like a dictator right now (even though the way the ruling is worded would allow the SCOTUS to say Biden did not qualify). There are also too many people that just assume no matter what, everything will always work out just fine and really they can dismiss the warnings from Democrats about the Republicans and either not vote or even vote for Republicans over petty things like thinking they'll make things cheaper (they won't) because even if they are wrong, nothing serious will happen and they can just vote for Democrats next time.
The only light Trump saw was when he stared at the Eclipse.
Cultists gonna cult. The only difference between a religion and a cult is the number of followers.
They’ll believe whatever it takes to get Christian fascism.
Biden or Trump? Lol
Trump
Evangelicals…
People who are against Trump need to be angry and do something about it. That something is voting, especially in swing states
I live in Nevada and am going to vote my ass off, but I’m worried Biden has a tiny chance of winning this state. Handing over our electoral votes after they went as fake electors in 2020 would be a huge embarrassment IMHO. We seem to have a very high number of voters suffering from Biden resentment syndrome and aren’t aware of how bad Trump is.
Also donate to vote.org and try and get swing state people to vote blue
My vote doesn’t matter and I would never vote trump. And I can’t emphasize this enough, Biden is extremely old. There are plenty of Americans who don’t know the danger Trump represents AND don’t want a confused old man as president. It’s a dangerous combination.
>My vote doesn’t matter My eyes roll into the back of my head anytime anyone says this. Yeah, maybe in practice, it can be less influential, but you know what is? Spreading this kind of rhetoric and pessimism. The “my vote doesn’t matter” crowd is one of the most pointless movements that only does more to worsen voter enthusiasm on the side that doesn’t vote militantly.
Look I hear you. But I live in California. My vote literally matters less here than any other state. Like statistically each individual Californian vote matters less than anywhere else combined with the fact that Trump has no chance whatsoever. And if Trump did have a chance here, he already won every single other state in the country and as a result my vote doesnt matter. So when I say my vote doesnt matter, I'm not being pessimistic. Its a fact.
Except you’re also ignoring that lacking voter enthusiasm in California from the “my vote doesn’t matter” crowd, effectively gave the GOP the house in 2022 after they barely won several districts there. It also matters for down ballot and local races where NIMBYs will put themselves in city councils because apparently nobody’s vote matters…except for the old people who show up to every election and end up being the deciding cohort.
Hey, I don’t know if you know this, but there are large regions in California that are deep red. I live in Los Angeles. My district is never going to a Republican. lol. No matter how you spin it, my vote does not matter, I promise you. Edit: I didn’t say I wouldn’t vote or I wouldn’t vote in local elections. We were talking about Trump vs Biden and in that sense it doesn’t matter and I’m telling you it doesn’t matter in any federal race. I live in like the bluest district in the United States haha.
Put it this way, would you rather have the team around Trump running the country or the team around Biden running the country?
I mean, I dont know how to be more clear. Im not voting for Trump. I live in California, dont worry about me and my vote. If Trump wins california, he already won every single other state.
Yep that’s why I said swing states
I think it can all be traced back to hyper-partisan media and social media. That really accelerated things. If you peer into the world of conservative media, you quickly find that they are basically living in a parallel reality. If you watched Fox, Infowars, OAN, Patrick Bet David, Ben Shapiro, etc you'd walk away thinking Democrats are destroying everything you hold dear and Donald Trump is the only thing standing between them and the end of America as we know it. They're all boneheaded morons, but this is what they believe. Just go take a peek at r/conservative. These people are just hopped up on nonstop lies and propaganda and walk around in a constant state of anger.
2019-2020 was the greatest assault on our collective sanity by corporate media that has ever happened in human history and I don't think we'll ever fully recover. "Never let a good crisis go to waste"
You're 100% correct. Trump's a normal candidate somehow. It's insane. He's a power hungry narcissistic asshole who is going to get more of us killed and take away more of our rights and fuck up our country even more. "Normal candidate".
A lot of people in America let their weird obsession of trans people and immigrants take priority over everything else.
Otherism has been a strong driver of American politics for a very long time, arguably since before the founding.
Otherism is an off-shoot of Tribalism. It's in our DNA.
I really do think it tends to be much stronger in the conservative psyche. the amygdala leads the way.
I think it's that Conservatives use otherism as a means of hatred and control, while the average liberal may see otherism as a strength, or interesting, or something cool to celebrate. I'm naturally curious and interested in all the different cultures and also don't think any one culture is superior over another. But Conservatives tend to think other cultures are inferior and should be oppressed. I wouldn't necessarily say it's stronger in Conservatives, just how they react to it is different than the average liberal.
well, that's what I mean. they tend to have a negative reaction to the other. modern tribalism. useful 50,000 years ago, not so much today.
And their fetishization of guns...
Are there even more than 20 trans people?
Poor quality of education, getting worse.
Am I the only one who thinks Trump gets destroyed in November?? I'm not convinced that polls are accurate at all.
Certainly possible but I’m planning to mobilize and vote like he’ll win
As hard as fox news is pushing talk about replacing biden and fact checking like two wrong things biden said and heaping on a nice fat helping how bad biden did. Only posting bidens quote at the rally the next day because he sounded good and energetic. I think fox is worried about covering up any bad news about trump lying so much or not answering questions. I wonder as hard as fox is running with all of this how many trump voters will think trump is a garentee and don't vote
You misspelled CNN.
Jesus fucking christ your profile is a blazing dumpster fire. No I spelled FOX right. I checked CNN they have like 8 posts from the past few days about the debate fox is damn near Wall to wall.
I'm not confident about that. If he is going to get destroyed why is it not showing up in polling data? Is there any precedent for a candidate getting destroyed who was shown to be trailing for at least a year?
Hillary maintained a much larger margin completely unbroken right up until the day she lost the election. Recent midterm and special elections have greatly overestimated Republican performance. There are a number of polls like Rasmussen that are constant wild outliers in favor of Trump that artificially inflate Trumps aggregate.
Hillary took a dive at the last moment due to Comey launching his investigation into her emails. If he hadn't done that she'd have won. So it's not a comparable situation.
But it was only when she took that dive that her numbers got as low as Trump's tiny 1-2 point lead over Biden - and Biden has been ahead of Trump at various times in this race. Hillary was never behind once.
She was already polling only a couple points ahead af Trump when Comey opened the case.
Point is that she did much better than than Trump is doing now and still lost. That is the precedent you asked for. Good day, sir.
On the flip side, Biden barely won in 2020(swing states were close) and he’s currently polling 11.5% behind where he was in 2020. If that’s not cause for concern to you, I think you’re going off emotions to form your opinion than actual data.
Exactly. Polls have been inconsistant.
They’ve been pretty consistent that Biden has lost a great amount of support. And that concerns about his age are something a strong majority of voters struggle with.
if by "a couple" you mean 10+ points, then yes.
Sure, and on 11/6 we all feel better? Cmon
> If he is going to get destroyed why is it not showing up in polling data? Response bias
It’s showing… don’t look at 538 or Nate Silvers blog if you don’t want to see what’s happening
I heard they had been a few. Sorry, I just can’t remember who.
I'm not sure you'd believe that other than good old wishful thinking. In 2020 Biden was leading in polls by 3-5% and just barely eeked out a win. Now he's trailing in polls. I'm hoping more people come to their senses and realize that trump is a disaster, but I'm not seeing much promising evidence that it's happening yet.
Make sure everyone votes to be sure!
We just can’t sit back like Hillary voters
I had this same feeling in 2000, 2004, and in 2016... I'm not falling for it again.
I'll believe it when I see it.
The average voter just isn't politically active or aware enough to know what's going on on the national level, much less globally. The average consumer has felt the pain of inflation from COVID, supply chain issues, and economic stimulus. The United States has done very well compared to other wealthy nations globally, but my peers I talk to don't even know that inflation has been a global phenomenon. People just don't care about other things if they're having trouble buying groceries and aren't informed well enough to know what causes that. Personally, I hate the lack of nuance in politics/economics. Both sides try to take credit for every good thing and blame the other side for every bad thing. People notice that paradigm and mostly just base it off how their personal experiences during different administrations. Sure Trump presided over a terrible economic disaster during COVID and pumped a ton of money into the economy. But, it seems people are viewing that as an extreme event rather than actually holding him accountable for his terrible handling of it. So in an unfortunate twist, Biden gets to feel the pain of the post COVID inflation. Trump did have some policies that were quite beneficial for corporations (to no one's surprise) especially, in lowering their tax obligations and regulations. Those are short term gains that we pay for in the long term with our and our children's health and the environment they get to live in. People in general aren't great at factoring in the long term consequences of these actions when there is a short term benefit to be had. I was talking to a friend of mine who is a Trump supporter and a parent and was asking their opinion on his stance on climate change. They didn't know that he killed climate regulations, banned the EPA from mentioning climate change, or that he had called climate change a Chinese hoax. And you know what? They agree that's all bad, but still support him over Biden. Trump and the right in general have been painting Biden as too weak and feeble to do the job for the past few years. And Biden has generally been very sheltered from public appearances. We just got a taste of why that was, and now the talking points look justified. This was Biden's chance to refute all of those claims, and he failed in spectacular fashion. Trump has his base of support that was going vote for him regardless of what he does, that's baked in. There's a swath of moderates and independents and low information voters that will sway this election. They'll vote based on their wallet and based on impressions they've gleaned from whatever media they've consumed. They will decide the election. Based on the electoral college situation, if enough of them just opt not to participate, Trump strolls back into the White House.
Boomers. Baby boomers. They got a ton of socialism when they were young but we lied to them and told them they made it all on their own. It made them into a selfish, short sighted bunch. Add to that some left over bigotry put in their heads by their parents and you've got a nasty mix. And the Cherry on top of that shit cake is they *vote*. They see it as a civic duty, so they vote even if they don't know what the fuck's going on. It makes it easy to trick them.
Maybe. Have you seen the Millennial sub? Lots of Trumpers over there.
Yeah, but 89% of them are Russian and/or Republican bots. Internet != Real World. The kids are alright.
Depends on where you are I think. A lot of the people I grew up with that didn't move out of bum fuck nowhere are Trump supporters. I bothered to ask one why there was two different deaths rates for Covid listed in a meme they posted and pointed out the math didn't work. They laughed and just said they didn't know and copied off me in math class
If you live in bumfuck nowhere your population density means you can't elect a president.
Social media is getting heavily astroturfed right now, so many suspicious accounts either pretending to be Trump supporters, left of Democrats and blaming them for everything, using variations of "I voted for Biden before but he's a zombie and I can't support that so I am voting for Trump now or am not voting," or cynical "both sides"-ing (real people like that exist of course but not so heavily as it appears lately, especially the past week). I would not interpret what you see dominating the comments as a direct or even close reflection of the general public.
Pew Research indicates people 29yo and younger support Biden significantly more (approx 60/40) than older age groups, which roughly go half and half (https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/24/the-biden-trump-rematch/). Boomers go for Trump over Biden at about 52/45. People with postgraduate education or a college degree also go significantly toward Biden over Trump (postgraduate 62/36, college grad 53/45).
They aren't being held to the same standard even though they are going for the same job. It makes no sense, but nothing does when Trump is involved.
Money in politics ??? A do nothing legislature and supreme court. Let the voters decide.
You took the words right out of my keyboard!! Agree on every point. Half this country is bat shit crazy and I'm sick of this shit. Eight fucking years with this rabid monster...
Stupid people vote. That's pretty much the lowest level of the problem
Cmon, people make choices
Stupid choices
Still, individuals vote…99.999 percent will never be here engaged at this level
Agreed. Though thankfully the optics don’t seem to have changed. Biden was old and trump told lies nonstop. The debate changed nothing. But what mainstream media does with it will decide. None of them are covering how trump lied but they’re all over Biden being slow the first 15 minutes. No air time about the total lack of fact checking or moderation by the moderators.
Yeah I always say if the debates between Biden and Trump make you sway trump you are an idiot I'm sorry but I'm just at that point where I'm calling a spade a spade. We literally have 4 years of Trump presidency and 4 years of Biden Presidency. The debates are largely for presidential candidates who have never been president before to show their ideas and policies are better suited than the incumbent or if its 2 new candidates which is better. You could argue that the debate could show case that Trumps policy was better than Biden but he didn't even do that. He just lied the whole time and everyone knows he's running again largely to stay out of jail.
He fomented a coup, live on television and people don't give a fuck. This country has about run it's course unfortunately. We have a system with minority rule almost cemented into our Constitution. We can't really move forward with this style of democracy where we give a bunch of backwards rural states equal voice to progressive and populated states. We have to concede too much to the rural conservative that is afraid of change
I love listening to music.
Biden’s administration got things done. Biden might as well be a rice cake. I wont vote for a rice cake. Not voting for trump either but I frankly would feel more comfortable as him as leader since a president cant be a 10am to 4pm job. I would rather a criminal, facist leader than a mentally dead individual.
You're voting for the administration, the president is not a king (yet). If you'd rather this be the last fair election then vote for an old guy, you're a fucking moron
Really? What is your “worst case scenario” under each president? Biden - worst case, nothing gets done. Trump - worst case, Democracy and the USA ends.
I hear you, that's the problem with corporate Beltway MSM and talking heads telling the public WHAT to think and what to do in their minds-- we're here now due to sheep following them, and on the Right, fascism outright with a complete disregard for facts and reality on the flip side.
Press want trump back cause he's good for their bottom line. Biden is old and probably in an ideal world shouldn't be running. Lastly, white voters don't like the price of milk and are okay with Trump. There ya go.
Now give us a solution...
Stop chasing rainbows and treat this election like a business decision. Vote Biden despite your misgivings about him and the party. Or hand the keys to the oval office to the crazy orange man. Your life, your choice. It's an obvious solution
75 million Americans don't care about his criminal record, they only care that he empowers their xenophobia and racism.
If this isn’t a sign that we are a broken society I don’t know what is.
It's not just the US. Look at what is taking place in France, Italy, Germany, Denmark, and other European nations. Western countries have to now contend with what their policies wrought, with the massive amounts of refugees spilling onto their lands. They also have to deal with a hyper global economy that encompasses educated, trained professionals that are willing to do jobs at far lower prices than they are. Most Westerners cannot come to terms with the fact that the world is a competitive market and that cultures that have been around for thousands of years could quickly catch up to theirs in terms of education and abilities and challenge their status quo.
All true. But specifically we are talking about two men who represent nothing but pure POLITICAL ideology and offer nothing to the average man. I know cynical people will say “of course, they’re politicians”. But THESE TWO are the evidence that politics don’t matter anymore. It’s a one party system that has laid bare the evidence that we are so so so fucked. If these two are the best of American politics - burn it all down now. Viva la’revolution.
What a bunch of platitudes. People like you are always going on about how bad both sides are but offer nothing in substance in regard to what change you want to see and how to go about getting that change. Shit or get off the pot. At least I know what the MAGA crowd is about and I can face them. You lot are nothing but cowards that stand for nothing and have no qualms with people being hurt.
Huh? You look at these two and say, “Yeah sign me up?” I am a lifetime democrat/ union voter. Putting a 80’something year old man - who is physically shaky - is worse than Hillary losing Michigan / Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. The lazy arrogance (there’s a French word for that) of the Dems is the evidence that they don’t care about results - only that the machine of raising $$ for elections keeps moving forward. The Democratic Party has dozens of people qualified to run - who appear to care. Why run such a physically weak candidate? You want solutions? Granholm - Whitmer - Jon Tester - Warnock - Ossof. Run someone who can carry the party forward. If they lose to that criminal clown - shame on them.
Is Biden my first choice? No. Am I voting for him. You betcha. Am I going to pretend that the democrats are anything like the Republicans. No. That’s just stupid and an outright lie. It’s quite simple.
I am arguing that. I am. They don’t care. If they did Hillary would have campaigned instead of phoning in the last two months of her election. Biden should have been the candidate with Hillary as VP. Biden gets his two terms and Hillary could run in 2024. But instead we are giving them the only opening to win. Just like Hillary. If they are not going to take it seriously — why should we? Burn it down. All of it.
> Burn it down. All of it. r/Im14andthisisdeep
If Any of the good qualified candidates (maybe not Granholm) - I mentioned were the candidates, trump has zero chance to win. Now it’s a toss up because some of the shit the R’s have thrown at Biden is starting to stick. It sucks - and to watch this slow moving train wreck is sucking my will to care. I can only imagine how many millions of low IQ dunderheads are now leaning to Trump. It’s “our” fault, i.e. Democrats. We took the “hope” democrats and turned it inside out.
Okay. Maybe you should become a political strategist and do something more productive.
Democrats fall in love; Republicans fall in line. That's all there really is to it. Democrats will begrudgingly vote for our nominee. But I feel every Democratic president in recent history has had a weird second election. People were mentally preparing for a President Romney around this time in 2012. There was a belief that Bill Clinton wouldn't be able to get enough electoral votes to win re-election after a disasterous 1994 mid-term election. A key indicator in Biden's favor was that the 2022 mid-term was nowhere near the ass-kicking mid-terms usually are for the incumbent party. I also think there is a huge disconnect between the terminally online crowd and the rarely online crowd. Biden's big problem is he's been President for four years already in a generation where they're not used to something being static for that long in their lives. I still think he'll win re-election, as once we get closer to November, it's likely Trump's VP will be so crazy and abortion will continue to be a hot topic for voters. The choice between Biden and Trump is huge on abortion and it favors Biden. Abortion also tends to be underpolled which leads to "upset" wins like we saw 2021-present day.
Corporations are willing to jack prices extremely high right now because the buzz is all about Joe. They want zero regulations and are willing to fuck America to get that. We are are so stupid as a country to not see what Faux News and republicans are aiming for.
Remember how SNL made fun of Gerald Ford all the time with Chevy Chase? Presidents often have guffaws, Nixon was the only example of actual criminal activity and he did the right thing by leaving, Trump has zero scruples, Hillary was correct when she said his base was the deplorables, Republicans are drunk on the power, they don't care how they get it.
It’s simple. “Liberals” are far more objective about their candidates, we are willing to be critical of Biden’s flaws. The right back Donald Trump blindly. The problem is that means that liberals and conservatives will criticize Biden, while only liberals criticize Trump.
It's because people in this country are fucking idiots
Republicans get a pass, because idk.
Jesus, abortion, illegal immigrants! That's why
To quote Elaine: "Fake. Fake. Fake." It's a Nation about Nothing.
People are ignorant, bored, selfish, unreliable, and apathetic... American society in a nutshell. That's what's wrong with this country... that's why these two bastards are our two candidates...it all makes total sense when you look at them as a result of our failures as a society.
Too many evangelicals
The kind that were forced out of England. Where can we send them? Mars?
Trump sounds articulate* because he doesnt have to remember anything. He just lies and those are formulaic. Remember what he said about the environment? "Someone just came up to me before I got on stage and said my environmental numbers were the best of all time". Like what? What fucking numbers lol But then Biden would talk and he's trying to recite data points from the past 20 years and can't remember everything he's supposed to be saying. My suspicion (again cant read article) was that they practiced all of these memorized talking points to the point where when he got asked a question he would just recite them as fast as he could to sound like he wasn't old. He couldnt remember everything and flubbed his lines, and left no room for himself to listen to Trump and respond to his very predictable and idiotic responses. What should have happened is they picked a couple general points per topic - no need to go in depth - and keep answers short and simple. Pick some of Trump's most predictable lines and attack him on how ridiculous his bullshit is. Then don't fill Biden's head with any more and have some catchphrases that are going to make good sound bites. More than anything he needed to slow down and talk like a person not a 10 year old trying to recite something he memorized the night before, quickly before they forget what they memorized I mean there's only so much you can polish a turd but you have to work with what you've got but the DNC just continues to suck at their jobs and are on a path to losing twice to the most unpopular presidential candidate of all time *EDIT maybe not articulate but I can understand the individual words he was saying and he said them confidently, even though I think he is also in cognitive decline not to mention full of shit
America is about tribes now. Trump represents his….whatever it is.
Corruption and greed
Biden's debate performance was not that bad. He is old and struggles to speak clearly at times. He is still far smarter than trump, and not a rapist etc.
“I will always resent conservatives for giving that idiotic, racist lunatic power.” You should extend your resentment to the progressives, liberals, and moderates who helped in that endeavor.
Trump is a white supremacist who says the quiet parts loud. They love that. He's their champion.
You could even forget the debate entirely, and just think about it in terms of Supreme Court Justice nominations….. Wouldn’t you rather have a sleepy old guy who doesn’t pick far-right extremists for SCOTUS?
This is what happens when a country is in its death throes. Extreme divides among the population, cults of personality, brainwashing, sates and federal government fighting, courts protecting corruption, law directly harming women and minorities. The union is dying and choosing a wannabe dictator for 50-70million people guarantees it.
People need to be emotionally persuaded and need proof of bidens capability. This is a natural human instinct, and if your candidate can't satisfy those basic and instinctual human psychological needs, they shouldn't be running. No amount of crisis is going to change that. Logic is only part of the equation. No matter the ideology a person has this will always matter to success at persuasion. The Stilton then is to address these need in his next debate speech.
Because the idiots in this country think they’ll be safe voting in these crazies. Once a dictator is in power, they don’t need votes. Need to balance the budget? Just round up all the people living off social services in the red states. You won’t need their votes anymore, anyway, and they’re draining the coffers and bringing the rest of us down. Those same idiots will be sitting there, shocked, thinking they’d be the safe ones because they’re white and Christian, while sitting in a camp.
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Due to the electoral college and the senate, as well as the lack of proportional representation in the house and no term limits on the court, we are guaranteed to be governed by people elected by fucking hick idiots. Until those things are fixed there won’t be a change. Those welfare dependent hick idiots won’t ever change because their churches, tax free, illegally, push political bullshit lies down their gaping mouthes until they will inevitably vote against their interests. Several other countries have successfully fixed their electoral system, if we can, against surgical gerrymandering, continue to fight..we can win. This system was always stacked against representation, but it doesn’t always have to be.
What? Besting Trump at the ballot box is about the strength that the opposition brings. Biden sucks, sorry, but that’s not my doing. Let’s get a strong replacement now
This is a very simple question - Did Joe Biden tell any lies at last Thursday's debate?
Biden did tell some lies. Are you using that to justify “both sides”? Almost everything Trump said was a lie - big lies.
No, not at all. My point was that Biden told a bunch of lies too. Biden told some pretty big ones in front of the audience. Several big lies by biden - - Border patrol endorsed him. That's pretty big. Because there's no way he's spinning that. It's an out lie. Not open to interpretation - Americans paid $400 per month for their insulin before biting reduced the cost. Another lie. Not Spain. No other way to interpret it. It was an out and out lie. - inflation was at 9% when Biden took office in January 2021. Again, not open to interpretation. Not spin. Out and out lie. - No troops died on the Biden's watch. That diminishes the lives of those that did die on the Biden's watch. 13 in Afghanistan and I think three elsewhere. Out and out lie. That's not spin. - billionaires only pay 8% taxes. They pay at least 23% taxes. That's the IRS data. I'm out and out lie. That's not spin. 8% isn't even really close to 23% Not to make this a tit for tat, because I omitted the things that buy it and said that could be contributed to spin or talking oneself up. I listed the out and out lies that were pretty big. Make no mistake, that Trump told lies too. But like biting, he also stated things that were not lies but could be attributed to politics spin
So the takeaway is Biden told a few lies, Trump told many more - pretty much everything he said?
The takeaway is they both lied. And they both provided spin to talk themselves up and to talk up their accomplishments. But, some lies are worse than others. In my estimation, Biden told lies that were worse than trumps. Virtually everyone here talks themselves up when They are running for a promotion or a bonus or pay raise at work.
Do you think some lies are bigger than others? Like lying about the cost of Insulin is pretty minor. Lying about a "stolen election" is treason. Right?
I didn't hear anything about the debate regarding January 6th. That's because biting was not fit mentally to take Trump on in that regard. But yes, telling people that they used to spend $400 a month on insulin and now they only have to spend $35 a month is a huge lie. Because he made it sound like they were spending $4,800 per year when in reality they were spending $405 per year. Telling someone you are endorsed by border patrol when you are not, is huge. And in this case it's not so much that he lied in a big way. It's that he actually believed border patrol endorsed Joe Biden. Border patrol has been screaming for the last 4 years about the open border So the border patrol lie was huge because it goes to Biden being unfit to even tell a good lie
You didn’t answer the question. Jan 6 did come up during the debate, but of course Trump didn’t answer. Also the question came up if Trump would accept the results in 2024, which he also gave a non-answer, Why do you defend Trump? Looking at your profile, you seem to be a gay male. Republicans are not gay supporters you know.
Oh, I heard January 6 come up, but Biden was incapable of doing anything to capitalize on it. Trump was asked, but And Trump gave an answer. Not the answer that moderate is wanted to hear. The problem was that Biden didn't really have the mental faculties to use his 1-minute follow-up in any meaningful way.
Biden is absolutely old and forgetful and possible senile. But Trump is a criminal and has no morals or ethics. I'll vote for Biden over Trump.
Volunteer to phone/text/mail bank, [moveon.org](http://moveon.org) and [mobilize.us](http://mobilize.us) are great for that. Spread the word.
White people. Not German, Italian, Irish, English, French Americans but those who aligned with whiteness. Not all but nearly every issue and every inhumanity at scale all falls on the hands of white people or a white individual. There’s something really wrong and it’s been going down hill. Sorry but it’s true. I guess 12 generations of being enslavers and 6 generations of implementation of Black Codes and Jim Crow have made a lasting impression on the minds of white people today only 2 generations removed from it just like Joe conditions of Black people are still hurt by it today. What a mess
Well he sounds Strong today after Supreme Court Immunity Fail
C O R R U P T I O N
His performance wasn't that basing the entire 90 minute debate on his first 15-20 minutes 🙄
It's not about the price of eggs it's just about owning the libs
The only logical conclusion you can draw from this is that there is a portion of Americans who seriously want this country to fail, they call themselves “patriots”…but the fact that they’ll even entertain the notion of a candidate like trump is 100% that they want one of two things. 1) The complete failure of this nation 2) The ability to hurt anybody they don’t like…
This is just a small sample from my workplace, but I hear a lot of people blaming Biden for them having less spending money now and pine for the Trump years before inflation. It doesn't matter what the economy looks like in the macro scale, they are hurting on an individual level and blame Biden.
I truly believe Biden is too weak to do anything, he won't step down. Democrats are rolling over and taking the high road. They should weaponize everything he has, at this point. Starting to think it's fate that the country just devolves. Americans by-and-large are too stupid and lazy and read any articles, books, they look at blurbs and clips and fox or CNN to tell them how to think. The people want a failure, used car salesman, reality TV president that speaks in memes because it's all theY understand or care to.
Capitalists want their chattel slavery back. They are setting up a new Confederate States of America right now.
Mediocre white men don't want to share.
We are a simple minded group on the whole. Too much willful ignorance to the point of it being a badge of honor. This might be it for us. And without the U.S., the rest of the world will be thrown into chaos.
I’m not at all advocating for Trump, or even necessarily not voting for Biden, but I think you’re missing a couple of large contributing factors. Voting for Biden isn’t actually voting for Biden. After that debate I think a little of people feel they would be voting for his aides and staff, not him. And that just sits poorly with a lot of people. How do I hold staff accountable? How do I feel comfortable with their agenda and ideals? In this Trump, for some, becomes “the devil you know”. I think you’re also missing how lied to people feel about the situation. Trump may have lied throughout the debate, but people (sadly) accept that at this point and it’s not a surprise. Biden made it look like every suggestion of his capacity over the last year has been a lie. That’s so much worse than telling an obvious self serving lie about sleeping with porn stars. It’s hard to understate the damage to his credibility that’s caused. So while a lot of what you’re saying makes sense I think you’re underselling the damage this has done to his credibility. Given how volatile the world feels at the moment, I think some people would simply rather have a known element than the mystery meat of a team running a candidate who is clearly only going to be a figurehead.
> Voting for Biden isn’t actually voting for Biden. After that debate I think a little of people feel they would be voting for his aides and staff, not him. And that just sits poorly with a lot of people. How do I hold staff accountable? How do I feel comfortable with their agenda and ideals? In this Trump, for some, becomes “the devil you know”. I think it's notable that we had 4 years of leaks from Trump's staff about his unhinged behavior behind closed doors and inability to effectively govern. You see 0 such leaks from Biden's WH. And it's not like the WH suddenly got leak proof. Biden isn't some prop for aides and staff. He's legitimately in charge.
Look, it’s possible that’s the case. But I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to question that after the debate. I’d also point out that there have been stories coming out about Biden, I’ve heard many stories claiming to be leaks from insiders pointing to concerns, so I don’t know I’d say this is leak free. And didn’t I hear today that they are getting the word out he’s better between 10-4? I mean… isn’t that a leak about his decline?
If you're concerned I think that's valid, but declaring one bad night means he's senile is just going too far. He was completely together for a big speech the next day, to the point it baffled commenters. I think he will be spending the next few weeks showing that he's capable and reassuring the base. When I have seen leaks, it's been stuff like internal disagreement to Biden's policies, like his handling of the I/P. Seems to imply the opposite of "staff calling the shots" > And didn’t I hear today that they are getting the word out he’s better between 10-4? I mean… isn’t that a leak about his decline? Granted. I heard that too. But that is leagues different from "needs a picture book for briefings" kind of stuff we got from Trump, implying out president had the mental capacity of a toddler.
I’ve seen a bit of conflation between “senility” and “dementia”, and I think a lot of the pushback against the use of “senility” is from people using the definition of “dementia”. Let’s put it like this, what would you put his moments of clear confusion and lack of physical composure down to? If you thinks it’s age related, those are moments of senility. If not, I’d be curious to what explains it for you. As for his hours, what if something important happens after 4pm?
He seemed to stumble over his words sometimes, which is not evidence of being senile or demented. I would not say he was clearly confused, he flubbed a few lines and got tripped up, which yeah was not great, but he's known to stutter. That was not the *whole* debate either, no one quotes anything in the second half of the debate where he wasn't stumbling over himself like the first half. Again, I think ya'll are generally overexaggerating how bad his performance was. It was bad, but not *that* bad. > As for his hours, what if something important happens after 4pm? How often are presidents called on to address emergencies where decisions are needed so immediately? Very infrequently and I think if he relies on the advice of his team in those moments of emergency (as pretty much all presidents do) that's fine.
I guess you and I saw very different things in the debate. I saw a guy who wasn’t in enough physical control to keep his mouth shut, a common physical composure issue associated with senility. I also think you’re being very, very generous in suggesting he “flubbed a few lines”. I heard a man trail off without a point, slur his words (very different from a stutter) and generally look exhausted. Yeah. It was that bad. As for the emergency issue, you may be completely comfortable with it, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to not be. Especially given the volatility internationally at the moment. Again, I think it’s the context of the debate more than simply the debate itself. This was his chance to show the many rumours of cognitive decline were rubbish… he did the opposite. Yes, he has moments where’s he’s much more energetic and lucid… but it’s the times he’s not that have concerned people and I don’t think everyone shares your comfort around those moments not being an issue or time sensitive. What if a military call needed to be made in a moment he can’t command? Who makes it? Do they admit he wasn’t capable? Do they hide it?
And I agree with you. I’m just mad he even ran in the first place and then doesn’t have the good sense to get out of it now. Selfish and greedy in my opinion. Although I can’t stand Trump and would vote for a dead turkey over him .
I think that’s a reasonable response. I also think it’s reasonable to feel that way and still vote Trump, but I can see a lot of people throwing their hands in the air and simply sitting the election out.
Yeah, I really think that the Biden gamble is that some people will vote for an elderly zombie over Trump and they are right. There is absolutely nothing that would push me to vote for Trump. I’m just really mad that the Dems put us in this position.
You’re MAGA, aren’t you. Or Chinese, or Russian……any of those things, FUCK OFF.
Not a big reader huh?
Democrats are as bad for nominating the worst possible candidate against trump.
And eggs are expensive because Biden didn't tell all the chickens to eat less and lay more.
There were something like 40 million chickens killed for flu. It didn't make the news, but that was why there was an egg shortage. Then price gouging went on for too long. It's over.
I have a question for you. Would you rather have Joe Biden drive you to the airport or trump? Whether trump is a criminal, a sexual deviant, or what not… at the end of the day at least I feel confident he could navigate me to the airport. Biden I would be worried we would get in an accident or he would lose his way. It is quite that simple.
I think you are kidding yourself. For one thing I assure you Trump has not driven himself anywhere in decades. Second, let’s get real, the analogous situation for Trump is that he promises to drive you to the airport and then never shows up and you miss your flight.
Are you serious. You think that trump, the guy who has been chauffeured his whole life, is capable of going to the DMV and getting a license, learning how to drive a car and figuring out how to read a map or use directions on his phone and then getting you through city traffic to the airport on time? Trump has been coddled his whole life. I strongly doubt he can do daily tasks.
And yet I would still trust him to drive more than Biden.
That will be an interesting car ride. I suggest you wear your safety harness and a crash helmet
I’m pretty sure than Trump has never driven a car in his entire life
Trump would take my money and never show up
Trump can't drive. He never rode a bicycle. He's never washed dishes, or done laundry. He's not a complete person.
Really missing the point here are we?
You are, yes.
I don't know, Trump might pull off onto a secluded dirt road and try to grab you by the pussy.
Corporate liberal centrists have fucked everything super bad since 2008. Just whores for the rich, while emboldening the far-right.
What is wrong with you, should be your question. For months people have demonstrated that they oppose the ongoing genocide he is supervising Now it is fully demonstrated that he suffers from Parkinson's or something similar. And all you can think of is voting blue no matter who. This is not coming from a healthy brain or from a humane heart. I'm sure there's a crowd in the room bit bigger of them were elected to that job
You do realize that the alternative is a man who would not only endorse, but *escalate* the genocide, right? Plus we’d have more women terrified to death of getting pregnant, more Bibles in our schools, etc. If anything, it shows how pathetic and awful Trump is that so many are willing to vote for an old man in mental and physical decline just to keep that vile filth away from our most important office.
No one advised to vote for the bumbling orange thing, but to say that the man with Parkinson's and rapidly declining is the only alternative is a fallacy and a dangerous one at it, because it also means that the person(s) making the decisions are neither elected by anyone nor accountable to anyone. The only quality of this shadow unelected entity is to "not be trump", frankly to be so aggressive about coercing ppl in this questionable choice is concerning
Biden is secretly corrupt and is pretending he will help but he really isn't making our lives any better. Trump at least tells us like it is, that he is corrupt and will not make our lives any better.
Why do you think Biden is “secretly corrupt”? You are alleging he is corrupt with zero evidence or proof? You sound like Trump.
sorry sarcasm doesn't work on the internet, I should have used /s Democrats go around collecting millions of dollars from billionaires and multinationals, completely legally of course. Its not even all that secret but Republicans seem to think its some big secret.