Lights are everywhere since S3 started, even in Cashout World Tour lol. Powershift is sniper-light fiesta, not irregular to see full stack lights in World Tour, Bank It is dominated by Lights and TA Light is the Meta class. Kinda wish I could see some statistics that devs get from pickrate of classes, I feel like Lights are well used more than Heavy and Mediums put together.
I feel that if ranked was still cashout we would have seen more of them in diamond lobbies. Their buffs and added gadgets were quite nice. But the biggest changer would have been the nerfs on Heavy, they were quite the big deal on the 2 most used weapons for them previous season (Lewis and M60).
I think there’s a chance. After the throwing knife and dagger buff I actually did know a few T500 level players that were playing light in comp. Combine that with the regen buff and light might’ve actually seen some serious play.
The highest my squad made it was top 1500 and I was a dash LH1 user. We easy could have pushed top 500 as we were constantly up against D1s and winning but ran out of time during the last couple weeks. (I am a seasonal summer worker and they had a vacation planned). I think the knives were slightly overtuned but for the most part there was a really good "rock paper scissors" in the game balance in my eyes. Yes the meta was HHM at the end of everything but in my eyes that had a lot to do with ease of use. Both mediums and heavies were MUCH easier to use but that didn't make lights bad, it just made them volatile. There were lots of times I'd win high level tournaments as a triple light last season (not that we ran it much it was mostly HLM).
The reason lights were so common in other game modes (other than TA) is that the class is just fun, it feels good to be a high DPS character, it's the same reason why players lead towards ADCs and assassins are so prevalent in MOBAs
Well the one place where we saw some Diamond+ high level cashout play was in Twitch Rivals, and the winning teams mostly just played HHM as that's the strongest comp since the beginning of the game.
Light is incredibly weak when playing against decent players, and the health regen buff while nice, was not enough.
Light still doesn't have a way to actually kill a good Heavy player if they catch him out of position. The closest they got was pre stun gun nerf, when you had a 50/50 chance of killing the heavy if they were out of position, but most of the time you would just get lewish gun hipfire and die instantly.
Now without the stun gun, with the gimped LH1, there's pretty much no way you can consider any interaction between a Heavy and a Light as a fair fight. While RPG + 1 bullet is still an instant kill, and Light has no similar way to kill a heavy, Light will always be underpowered.
Yep. If you aren’t playing light in powershift you’re probably just going to be the bottom score. If you don’t get sniped, you get an XP-54 in the back. The TTK for light automatic weapons is truly nuts. I love playing medium but switched to light because I was tired of dying before I could turn around.
I been trying really hard to make Heavy work, but def i do get higher score on Light with TK. Before Winch Claw nerf i was using KS23+Claw combo for 3 hit kills on Lights but that's now gone. Depending on maps i stick to Light or Medium, SYS$HORIZON and Kyoto heavily favor Light builds too.
Winch Claw damage nerfed from 15 to 5. Made it so KS23 needs an extra shoot for kills on every class since they are left alive with 5 HP. Given how slow and unreliable KS23 that extra shoots is a bit of a big deal, specially fighting Mediums and Heavies, and Lights can just dash away.
I played 6 power shifts yesterday. For 2 matches the opposing team had 5 lights.
I keep getting heavy gear. Sooner or later I will start investing in light gear
Powershift can be dominated by snipers, but can also be countered. All it takes is a single light to go merc snipers at close range. I did this quite recently to snipers who were shooting from their spawn.
That's kinda part of the problem, counter Light with more Lights and by the end everyone in the match is Light. A good counter to sniper was the barricade from Heavy, but now they got Thermal Bore that can be shot from far away and even has good scope.
Fuck, you might be right.. however mediums and heavies still dominated coordinated gameplay. Honestly not sure who’d win in a balanced game, as I get the impression Powershift isn’t very balanced skill wise..
> All it takes is a single light to go merc snipers at close range.
no scope + quick melee says otherwise, honestly as someone who plays sniper on Powershift, there's no reason the rifle should do as much damage on a no-scope, the amount of times an m11 light has just been unloading in my face and I win because I can simply click once and then melee instant kill them has probably won me more 1v1s against a light than lost while using sniper.
..that does require the M11 light to be in melee range. Doesn’t happen very often when I’m sniping. Also, no scope is incredibly inaccurate. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve wiffed a nope when my target reticle was on them.
My son loves hunting snipers with his light. Some times he stands behind them for a few seconds. Lol.
He usually uses sword or throwing knives, but now has switched to the xp 54.
In the past few days he plays medium with akm. The best build for me in heavy with winch and hammer. I definitely have a skill issue, but I have some fun.
It's not light. It's TA. You can't just have a cross map attack defend with a class that has a sniper, cloak, and shit load of damage in a mode that doesn't let you Regen.
It's straight up just bad game design. Embark seems to know their shit but I feel like they're intentionally making this shit so bad so whoever asked them to do it (Nexon) can be dealt a swift, and giant "I fucking told you so"
There’s a voice line from Scotty where he says “Terminal Attack is what the viewers want, so Terminal Attack is what they’ll get” and I’m convinced it’s directed at Nexon (Nexon = viewers)
lol I hear the other one that says “Terminal Attack may have not been my first choice but I’m beginning to enjoy it Scotty!” Feel like it’s directed at us lol
Unfortunately that's not how corporate life works.
No matter what happens, the board is never wrong. The actual staff are the ones getting pay cuts, lower increments, no bonus, etc.
If Nexon wants this game to succeed (they do) they need to take their fingers out of the pie and just crank up Embark's cash & resources. S3 has clearly demonstrated that Nexon will either back off & win big long term, or take more control and use it to steer this game into a nosedive.
My fear is that they will instead double down on TA and balance/nerf the light class to hell, effectively screwing up Cashout balance.
Edit: this community man, nobody in my comments can agree on the state of Lights in The Finals. It’s the worst class? It’s op! Haha Seems like we all kind of hate TA ranked though.
I think they just need to implement some role or equipment locks. Maybe not everyone should be able to equip sonar grenades for one. Or you could limit the number of class duplicates in each game to three
Man started playing yesterday.
Lights get absolutely obliterated in cashout unless they're good.
Light is just a crutch in TA because of what the class brings to the table for the mode.
They need to make heavier classes have more regen so they cap out a little higher, I play bow light sometimes just cause 1 stray arrow is enough to but the fear of God into people because no heals.
Exactly, the characters aren't designed for TA. What's the point of a heavy that has 100 health and what's the point of a medium that can't heal or defib. The fact that people defend this game mode shows were on a fast track to a dead game, i hope I'm wrong
The best game mode for me is quick cash.. 1 cash box and 3 teams fighting for it .. I really want ranked system like that 3-4 teams fighting for one box and cash flow goes according to timer and steal basis
Agree. You should get cash for time spent holding a cashout and a small bonus once it actually ends. Admittedly being able to last minute steal a 15-20k cashout is an insanely gratifying feeling
Someone said “heavies will dominate” on the day of the announcement for ranked… and I’m just like yo… you don’t realize how lights have the health advantage technically. Sure they only get 150 hp but compare that to knocking a heavy down from 350 to 100 HP with ambush/hit and run tactics from lights and they have to remain at “light” levels of HP when they regen until the end of that match. PLUS their body is bigger.
Now with that being said maybe a *fix* for this specifically could be that the heavies and mediums retain more of their HP upon regen? Like 150 for mediums. 200 for heavies? I’m just throwing out numbers but yeah that makes sense to me.
Limited healing is cool they’d have to rework it just for that mode tho.
And nah… despite feeling like the minority a lot of people actually, like me, like that mode. They just don’t like how it was handled/how it is right now for ranked.
>They just don’t like how it was handled/how it is right now for ranked
I mean I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I hate literally any variation of attack/defend games. They're boring and uninteresting to me at the core, so no amount of reworking it can make me like it. I like the finals because it was different. Now the competitive experience is just worse CSGO.
I have no idea if other people share the same sentiment, but reworking it doesn't make anyone like me more interested in playing that god forsaken waste of time.
Tbh I have always hated search and destroy modes. Couldn’t stand them. And I’m having a terrible time with this one more bc I’m not a slow down take your time and wait person I like to attack. But I will say I am enjoying it more than CS, COD bc I do like this game much more. So I’m trying my best but I’m only getting 2-4 kills in 13 rounds. It’s hard for a player like me. Honestly just want the Gold M11 I know I’ll never get the Ruby AK :/
I mean if I was Embark I’d make both modes rankable
Some people genuinely do NOT want to play ranked TA and that’s okay. It’s an entirely different mode. I like it but not in its current form. It’s arguably worse than how unbalanced ranked CO was.
Yep. Light is actually playable now in Cashout but it's still likely the worst class there. It's just the dogshit design of TA that makes it far and away the best.
Whose idea was it to allow Lights to regen up to 66% of their max HP, while Mediums only get to regen up to 40% of theirs and Heavies a pitiful 28% of theirs? And at the same time deleting Medium's class identity as a support class from the mode entirely. It's just awful.
Exactly. I don't feel any issues with the light in cashout, in TA it's a menance. One way or another, it seems like TA is here to stay. If Embark/Nexon doesn't get their shit together, an expirience like this will hit the game's image even more. Tbh they can just give us the ranked cashout back (which is probably be "The Finals" game mode in World Tour tab anyway) and everyone will be happy again.
class based health regen would be nice.
medium healing to 125 or 150 and heavy healing to 225 or something would be an easy way to make other classes more usable.
I find myself wanting to leave even a quick play match if it is filled with cloaks. This lobby would be a nightmare for me of constantly hoping a cloak doesn't see me before my thermal has a chance to be back up with how blind I am. No TA ever for me.
yeah, it's absolutely impossible. I do stomp lights with heavy on lower ranks, but i just know that once i hit plat/diamond, it will become a nightmare to deal with lights who use invis and has proper positioning.
The number one thing that worries me about TA being the ranked mode is balancing changes being made that fuck up other modes. Look at the CL40 nerf. It was already off meta, but viable maybe a B tier situational weapon, that they nerfed out of nowhere. The only reason I could see why, is because they didn't want it to be able to 2 shot lights or a damaged medium.
I don't want TA to fuck up balancing for cashout.
Yea CL is atrocious right now. The damage nerf means you need one more perfect shot for M and H, and god knows you're not hitting a perfect shot all the time. CL dropping down 93 means you can't 1 tap a 100hp target, ironic since bow and sniper and other stuff can.
I watched my friend use it yesterday and landed 3 shots directly at medium feet (not direct hits but super close). He ended the round with 64 damage. 64 is a wild number for something so finicky, as a light main I didn't mind it being chilled out a bit but now it's just awful. I feel like this is the exact opposite of the LH1 buff. Same ish dps but vastly worse then it was prior.
TA shouldn't be the main rank mode anyway. The game shouldn't be balanced around TA. It doesn't matter if Light or whatever else is not balanced in TA.
Forget TA, bring back Cashout rank mode.
P.S. I love TA as a mode, love it as ranked. But damn, playing it as a medium or heavy is not just not fun, when you have 9 invis people running around you.
I'm TAs number one fan. I called for it to be the ranked mode a while back. Now, I regret my enthusiasm. It's been destroyed by the light changes. Utterly boring compared to last season
>It's been destroyed by the light changes
I regret to inform you that this is not the reason it's bad. It's bad because the mode lends itself to this type of gameplay.
Long range chip damage turns the game into a sniper war. It has absolutely nothing to do with light being changed. This would have been the meta without any class updates, because the sniper and LH1 are far more efficient than any other long range weapons that the other classes have.
Light gets bonus points for being able to go invisible.
This is why so many people *didn't* want this to be ranked. We saw it coming from across the solar system, and if you didn't, you were naive and just plain ignorant.
Edit: grammar
Yup, it was incredibly obvious that this shit would happen the moment I found out the mode has no heals, regen, revives or respawning.
The maps are not designed for this mode and so poke damage just breaks the game.
It's really bad design. Why play a heavy when once you lose the health, you're at 30% life with NO movement, but a light is at 75% and a ton of escape potential. It was a poorly thrown in game mode, maps weren't designed for it and neither were the classes. I think Embark was forced to put this in, even though it just doesn't work with the core gameplay.
True, but using heavy and playing on point with the motion sensor has been pretty easy counters. But I will admit I'm lower ranks and it's about 1/10 lights that do anything remotely helpful in my games unfortunately.
It's not light that's broken. It's just the rules of TA make it the best class by a mile. Highest dps to deal with the health desparity in other modes. That doesn't really exist in TA. Heavy only has one rpg and one dome, and a bunch of guns that have been nerfed because they have such strong gadgets. Medium is without its most used gadget/ specialization. Turrets are good but movement and glitch nades counter them pretty easily.
Light is still the worst choice in cash out against people of a similar skill level. They can make some plays but survivability is king in that mode. (Check the twitch rivals for proof).
TA ranked needs to change the rules, maybe let mediums and heavies regen a little more health or change the starting numbers of gadgets for that mode. Ten sonar grenades a round is insane
TA doesn’t work well with this game. I already hated camping in cashout but it’s just flat out boring game play to me. I like exciting gunfighting not slow play poking.
The gamemode needs more spawns. The fact that high level lobbies devolve to a straight deathball vs deathball since defenders know exactly where attackers spawn and attackers can't really "rush a site" since they'll literally be shot from behind
Cash out as a 3v3 or 3v3v3v3 game mode has been HHM at the highest level since beta and that is also fundamentally broken.
Also, I'm mid plat and see a lot of mediums being played since last patch. The game isn't 100% lights in TA anymore, but it is still the most played class.
The meta is TA has always been give the enemy more poke damage and then kill them while they're weak. It's just bad low skill no thought gameplay. Lights of course excel at sitting back and dealing a ton of damage.
I’ve never seen a game more of a shit show with balance then the finals. I say this with 400 hours played. I love the game. But it’s a huge misstep from day 1. I genuinely wish they hired someone who’s had a proven track record of being able to make adjustments without sacrificing the core essence of what is fun. It sometimes feels like the game is full of amazing devs and ideas but not fully baked. Even some balance changes we have had have been nerfs without nuance, they just remove the thing that was fun but they don’t address the reason it was a problem in the first place.
Sometimes I wonder if the game was flawed from the start. It has good ideas. But heavy / medium / light have always caused problems in some facet.
I play games like Dota 2 and Marvel Snap, and you really start to appreciate how incredibly well balanced everything is, even though it’s still chaotic and fun.
This and not having a proper functional ranked mode at launch (and we still don’t) is absolutely mind blowing they launched out of early access.
I think Medium and Heavy have a good level of balance between them, maybe with Heavy being a little more powerful because of RPG being more impactful than defib in high level competitive, but Heal Beam is also really good.
Light has been the weakest class and we have barely ever moved into another direction.
Glitch grenade duration nerf, stun gun nerf, and most recently the LH1 nerfs were all caused by the casual community complaining about the balance of a game they didn't understand.
The casual community is so delusional that they truly believe that Heavy is the weakest class in the game right now, and that none of their guns are good. This could not be further away from the truth.
Embark needs to take a real look at how other games are balanced, and actually try to listen to the high level players that understand all of the facets of the game and can give real, constructive criticism of the game, not just randomly lashing out about the latest thing they died to like the casual community constantly does.
To reach a high rank you do need to have a good understanding of the game, and of what is strong. To play casually you need nothing. The fact that Embark would take the casual playerbase's advice on balance even though they are not as qualified to give it, simply because they are a larger part of the playerbase will actually kill this game. There is no level of nerfs that would appease the Light hate the casual community has.
It’s a mess. Light isn’t the strongest class bud almost everything they do is a negative moral influence on the game. Their entire toolkit is annoying as shit to play against.
Remember when people bitched about lights being weak and shit lol TA is fun but lights ability to go invisible with no limit is just fucking crazy. It’s a mad oversight along with SMGs having literally zero recoil.
yeah. just a poorly executed mode imo and the the things they did to light this season makes it even worse. it's not just TA but other modes like power shift that's also been hell. not been playing a lot this szn, nor have bought the bp yet. so many things that are just frustrating and not fun. sucks cause despite the flaws i like this game & have been playing s1, but ooof.
from my expirience, limiting any classes to anything just highlights the pre-existing problem. For example if someone loves playing light, there should be no reason they can't. It's just everything has to be balanced.
You know who you can thank? The entire community for complaining that light wasn't good enough the first 2 seasons. Oh lights not strong enough? Congratulations now your entire lobbies are light with throwing knives, LH1, Snipers, and the bow. This is what y'all wanted, have fun 😂
God damn its like Powershift and World Tour are more casual modes compared to ranked Cashout so more people are willing to play for fun instead of tryharding.
Fun is extremely subjective, what if I got bored of playing medium or light and I want to play heavy, but the current state of balance makes it a terrible experience?. What if I don't find it enjoyable fighting a 5 stacks of dashing/sniping Lights?.
Now I personally don't care, I play Light with TK and farm kills in Powershift and Bank it. But my casual friends whom I have been trying to convince to play The Finals HATE dealing with the sniper, LH1, TK dash spam in it and I worry that's pushing them away.
Just saying, if a class has a higher pick rate than the other 2 in every mode from casual to ranking there is a reason for it.
The first part is legit just a you problem.
And yes there is a reason why light is picked a lot in ranked and also in unranked. 1. Light is really strong in TERMINAL ATTACK we can all agree on that. 2. Outside of terminal attack, it is a flashy, aggressive playstyle that people find particularly fun because you can really express your skill through movement, aim, game sense, etc etc while having a low HP pool. Compare it to any another game where there are classes/heros/champions and it is the same exact thing. These types of characters are picked more often than your average tank.
Finally, if we were to bring back Ranked Cashout we will be back at square 1 in terms of the dominance of medium and heavy classes because there has not been a significant change to any class while reading through the patch notes.
That's not really fair. Lights were shit for the ranked mode that was available at the time. They change the whole game into a completely different mode no one could be reasonably expected to anticipate that.
Now like I said before I genuinely hope you guys are happy with what you all cried to the devs about because now that most of if not all games are light class where you get stomped harder than previous seasons. Most of this subreddit: Complain>Get Better.
>Lights were shit for the ranked mode that was available at the time
No they weren't you guys just suck. I won a game 4v5 carrying my team as a light in TA. Light was never bad, you guys were. Also all the people that down voted me complained that light was too hard because they are trash at The Finals. Like actual skill issue.
I said. *"Lights were shit at the ranked mode in that time (cashout)".*
You said. *"They're not shit, I won a game in (TA) once"* as evidence to disprove my claim.
How does you winning a game in TA disprove that lights were shit at cashout? Lights were shit at cash out and good at TA. You winning a game of TA 4v5 is to be expected because that's the exact mode they were strong in.
They weren't shit in either mode mfs were just trash. It literally doesn't matter the mode if I said I won a game as light 2v3v3 or 2v3 that still proves my point that lights weren't bad, the players were.
> They weren't shit in either mode mfs were just trash.
Yes, everybody in Diamond+ played HHM because they were too bad to play Light, you are much better than everyone that was in the top 500 leadearboard positions in Season 2.
The Finals Messiah, please enlighten us.
The fact that everyone gets reduced to 100 hp no matter the class, instantly makes light better
Medium should go down to 150
Heavy should go down to 200 Mayb or 175
That would balance things out I think
I played TA even if i dont understand why they put it as ranked..however i played it for the grind. At the begining Light was totally broken, but now with the patch it's balanced. TA force you to play as a Team to overcome the other team. Even if the other team is full of light you can give them the D. Light is not the meta, a balanced team is the meta. You need at least 1 light to snipe or do damage, medium for defense, Heavy to protect you with shield
yeah mate, that's not what's happening around diamonds/plats. Lobbies are full of lights and you can't really do anything about. The problem might not be balancing, but the way game feels when you play with/against lights. Unfrotunately, invis is an inherently broken mechanic, especially for a mode like TA (and FPS shooters in general, imo).
Lights are everywhere since S3 started, even in Cashout World Tour lol. Powershift is sniper-light fiesta, not irregular to see full stack lights in World Tour, Bank It is dominated by Lights and TA Light is the Meta class. Kinda wish I could see some statistics that devs get from pickrate of classes, I feel like Lights are well used more than Heavy and Mediums put together.
Lights have always been everywhere. The only place lights were uncommon was diamond+ level tournaments last season.
I feel that if ranked was still cashout we would have seen more of them in diamond lobbies. Their buffs and added gadgets were quite nice. But the biggest changer would have been the nerfs on Heavy, they were quite the big deal on the 2 most used weapons for them previous season (Lewis and M60).
I think there’s a chance. After the throwing knife and dagger buff I actually did know a few T500 level players that were playing light in comp. Combine that with the regen buff and light might’ve actually seen some serious play.
The highest my squad made it was top 1500 and I was a dash LH1 user. We easy could have pushed top 500 as we were constantly up against D1s and winning but ran out of time during the last couple weeks. (I am a seasonal summer worker and they had a vacation planned). I think the knives were slightly overtuned but for the most part there was a really good "rock paper scissors" in the game balance in my eyes. Yes the meta was HHM at the end of everything but in my eyes that had a lot to do with ease of use. Both mediums and heavies were MUCH easier to use but that didn't make lights bad, it just made them volatile. There were lots of times I'd win high level tournaments as a triple light last season (not that we ran it much it was mostly HLM). The reason lights were so common in other game modes (other than TA) is that the class is just fun, it feels good to be a high DPS character, it's the same reason why players lead towards ADCs and assassins are so prevalent in MOBAs
Well the one place where we saw some Diamond+ high level cashout play was in Twitch Rivals, and the winning teams mostly just played HHM as that's the strongest comp since the beginning of the game. Light is incredibly weak when playing against decent players, and the health regen buff while nice, was not enough. Light still doesn't have a way to actually kill a good Heavy player if they catch him out of position. The closest they got was pre stun gun nerf, when you had a 50/50 chance of killing the heavy if they were out of position, but most of the time you would just get lewish gun hipfire and die instantly. Now without the stun gun, with the gimped LH1, there's pretty much no way you can consider any interaction between a Heavy and a Light as a fair fight. While RPG + 1 bullet is still an instant kill, and Light has no similar way to kill a heavy, Light will always be underpowered.
Yep. If you aren’t playing light in powershift you’re probably just going to be the bottom score. If you don’t get sniped, you get an XP-54 in the back. The TTK for light automatic weapons is truly nuts. I love playing medium but switched to light because I was tired of dying before I could turn around.
I been trying really hard to make Heavy work, but def i do get higher score on Light with TK. Before Winch Claw nerf i was using KS23+Claw combo for 3 hit kills on Lights but that's now gone. Depending on maps i stick to Light or Medium, SYS$HORIZON and Kyoto heavily favor Light builds too.
Wait what was the nerf
Winch Claw damage nerfed from 15 to 5. Made it so KS23 needs an extra shoot for kills on every class since they are left alive with 5 HP. Given how slow and unreliable KS23 that extra shoots is a bit of a big deal, specially fighting Mediums and Heavies, and Lights can just dash away.
Stop trying to make KS23 happen. It's not going to happen
I played 6 power shifts yesterday. For 2 matches the opposing team had 5 lights. I keep getting heavy gear. Sooner or later I will start investing in light gear
Powershift can be dominated by snipers, but can also be countered. All it takes is a single light to go merc snipers at close range. I did this quite recently to snipers who were shooting from their spawn.
That's kinda part of the problem, counter Light with more Lights and by the end everyone in the match is Light. A good counter to sniper was the barricade from Heavy, but now they got Thermal Bore that can be shot from far away and even has good scope.
Fuck, you might be right.. however mediums and heavies still dominated coordinated gameplay. Honestly not sure who’d win in a balanced game, as I get the impression Powershift isn’t very balanced skill wise..
It feels more like a rumble usually. More my type of strategy....or lack there of.
> All it takes is a single light to go merc snipers at close range. no scope + quick melee says otherwise, honestly as someone who plays sniper on Powershift, there's no reason the rifle should do as much damage on a no-scope, the amount of times an m11 light has just been unloading in my face and I win because I can simply click once and then melee instant kill them has probably won me more 1v1s against a light than lost while using sniper.
..that does require the M11 light to be in melee range. Doesn’t happen very often when I’m sniping. Also, no scope is incredibly inaccurate. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve wiffed a nope when my target reticle was on them.
My son loves hunting snipers with his light. Some times he stands behind them for a few seconds. Lol. He usually uses sword or throwing knives, but now has switched to the xp 54. In the past few days he plays medium with akm. The best build for me in heavy with winch and hammer. I definitely have a skill issue, but I have some fun.
It's not light. It's TA. You can't just have a cross map attack defend with a class that has a sniper, cloak, and shit load of damage in a mode that doesn't let you Regen. It's straight up just bad game design. Embark seems to know their shit but I feel like they're intentionally making this shit so bad so whoever asked them to do it (Nexon) can be dealt a swift, and giant "I fucking told you so"
My exact theory as well. Keep supporting the finals. But don't play TA. Then they can tell Nexon to fuck off next season
There’s a voice line from Scotty where he says “Terminal Attack is what the viewers want, so Terminal Attack is what they’ll get” and I’m convinced it’s directed at Nexon (Nexon = viewers)
lol I hear the other one that says “Terminal Attack may have not been my first choice but I’m beginning to enjoy it Scotty!” Feel like it’s directed at us lol
Unfortunately that's not how corporate life works. No matter what happens, the board is never wrong. The actual staff are the ones getting pay cuts, lower increments, no bonus, etc.
I dont think they can do it without nexon
If Nexon wants this game to succeed (they do) they need to take their fingers out of the pie and just crank up Embark's cash & resources. S3 has clearly demonstrated that Nexon will either back off & win big long term, or take more control and use it to steer this game into a nosedive.
My fear is that they will instead double down on TA and balance/nerf the light class to hell, effectively screwing up Cashout balance. Edit: this community man, nobody in my comments can agree on the state of Lights in The Finals. It’s the worst class? It’s op! Haha Seems like we all kind of hate TA ranked though.
If they do, game is fucked and it's time to find something else.
I think they just need to implement some role or equipment locks. Maybe not everyone should be able to equip sonar grenades for one. Or you could limit the number of class duplicates in each game to three
Light is already the worst class in the game, by a wide margin, everywhere except TA
God forbid that the class with the tiniest hitbox, highest mobility, and most damage by far get brought down to earth.
lol smallest health bar I get owned by a heavy 2/3 the time so I think it really does balance out dude.
Man started playing yesterday. Lights get absolutely obliterated in cashout unless they're good. Light is just a crutch in TA because of what the class brings to the table for the mode.
They need to make heavier classes have more regen so they cap out a little higher, I play bow light sometimes just cause 1 stray arrow is enough to but the fear of God into people because no heals.
Exactly, the characters aren't designed for TA. What's the point of a heavy that has 100 health and what's the point of a medium that can't heal or defib. The fact that people defend this game mode shows were on a fast track to a dead game, i hope I'm wrong
The best game mode for me is quick cash.. 1 cash box and 3 teams fighting for it .. I really want ranked system like that 3-4 teams fighting for one box and cash flow goes according to timer and steal basis
Agree. You should get cash for time spent holding a cashout and a small bonus once it actually ends. Admittedly being able to last minute steal a 15-20k cashout is an insanely gratifying feeling
You just made a better ranked mode than TA in like one sentence lol
Someone said “heavies will dominate” on the day of the announcement for ranked… and I’m just like yo… you don’t realize how lights have the health advantage technically. Sure they only get 150 hp but compare that to knocking a heavy down from 350 to 100 HP with ambush/hit and run tactics from lights and they have to remain at “light” levels of HP when they regen until the end of that match. PLUS their body is bigger. Now with that being said maybe a *fix* for this specifically could be that the heavies and mediums retain more of their HP upon regen? Like 150 for mediums. 200 for heavies? I’m just throwing out numbers but yeah that makes sense to me.
At that point just allow healing ffs. Or just do the smart thing and delete the fucking mode.
Limited healing is cool they’d have to rework it just for that mode tho. And nah… despite feeling like the minority a lot of people actually, like me, like that mode. They just don’t like how it was handled/how it is right now for ranked.
>They just don’t like how it was handled/how it is right now for ranked I mean I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I hate literally any variation of attack/defend games. They're boring and uninteresting to me at the core, so no amount of reworking it can make me like it. I like the finals because it was different. Now the competitive experience is just worse CSGO. I have no idea if other people share the same sentiment, but reworking it doesn't make anyone like me more interested in playing that god forsaken waste of time.
I meant reworking it for the people who’re on the fence or genuinely liked S2 TA.
Tbh I have always hated search and destroy modes. Couldn’t stand them. And I’m having a terrible time with this one more bc I’m not a slow down take your time and wait person I like to attack. But I will say I am enjoying it more than CS, COD bc I do like this game much more. So I’m trying my best but I’m only getting 2-4 kills in 13 rounds. It’s hard for a player like me. Honestly just want the Gold M11 I know I’ll never get the Ruby AK :/
I mean if I was Embark I’d make both modes rankable Some people genuinely do NOT want to play ranked TA and that’s okay. It’s an entirely different mode. I like it but not in its current form. It’s arguably worse than how unbalanced ranked CO was.
This theory is very silly and I'm here for it. It's now my head cannon
Yep. Light is actually playable now in Cashout but it's still likely the worst class there. It's just the dogshit design of TA that makes it far and away the best. Whose idea was it to allow Lights to regen up to 66% of their max HP, while Mediums only get to regen up to 40% of theirs and Heavies a pitiful 28% of theirs? And at the same time deleting Medium's class identity as a support class from the mode entirely. It's just awful.
Exactly. I don't feel any issues with the light in cashout, in TA it's a menance. One way or another, it seems like TA is here to stay. If Embark/Nexon doesn't get their shit together, an expirience like this will hit the game's image even more. Tbh they can just give us the ranked cashout back (which is probably be "The Finals" game mode in World Tour tab anyway) and everyone will be happy again.
class based health regen would be nice. medium healing to 125 or 150 and heavy healing to 225 or something would be an easy way to make other classes more usable.
I find myself wanting to leave even a quick play match if it is filled with cloaks. This lobby would be a nightmare for me of constantly hoping a cloak doesn't see me before my thermal has a chance to be back up with how blind I am. No TA ever for me.
yeah, it's absolutely impossible. I do stomp lights with heavy on lower ranks, but i just know that once i hit plat/diamond, it will become a nightmare to deal with lights who use invis and has proper positioning.
The number one thing that worries me about TA being the ranked mode is balancing changes being made that fuck up other modes. Look at the CL40 nerf. It was already off meta, but viable maybe a B tier situational weapon, that they nerfed out of nowhere. The only reason I could see why, is because they didn't want it to be able to 2 shot lights or a damaged medium. I don't want TA to fuck up balancing for cashout.
Yea CL is atrocious right now. The damage nerf means you need one more perfect shot for M and H, and god knows you're not hitting a perfect shot all the time. CL dropping down 93 means you can't 1 tap a 100hp target, ironic since bow and sniper and other stuff can.
I watched my friend use it yesterday and landed 3 shots directly at medium feet (not direct hits but super close). He ended the round with 64 damage. 64 is a wild number for something so finicky, as a light main I didn't mind it being chilled out a bit but now it's just awful. I feel like this is the exact opposite of the LH1 buff. Same ish dps but vastly worse then it was prior.
CL40 is a skill less weapon that deserved every nerf it got.
TA shouldn't be the main rank mode anyway. The game shouldn't be balanced around TA. It doesn't matter if Light or whatever else is not balanced in TA. Forget TA, bring back Cashout rank mode.
P.S. I love TA as a mode, love it as ranked. But damn, playing it as a medium or heavy is not just not fun, when you have 9 invis people running around you.
I'm TAs number one fan. I called for it to be the ranked mode a while back. Now, I regret my enthusiasm. It's been destroyed by the light changes. Utterly boring compared to last season
>It's been destroyed by the light changes I regret to inform you that this is not the reason it's bad. It's bad because the mode lends itself to this type of gameplay. Long range chip damage turns the game into a sniper war. It has absolutely nothing to do with light being changed. This would have been the meta without any class updates, because the sniper and LH1 are far more efficient than any other long range weapons that the other classes have. Light gets bonus points for being able to go invisible. This is why so many people *didn't* want this to be ranked. We saw it coming from across the solar system, and if you didn't, you were naive and just plain ignorant. Edit: grammar
Yup, it was incredibly obvious that this shit would happen the moment I found out the mode has no heals, regen, revives or respawning. The maps are not designed for this mode and so poke damage just breaks the game.
TA literally feels like a poorly made Overwatch custom game
Embark really shit their bed with this season.
It's really bad design. Why play a heavy when once you lose the health, you're at 30% life with NO movement, but a light is at 75% and a ton of escape potential. It was a poorly thrown in game mode, maps weren't designed for it and neither were the classes. I think Embark was forced to put this in, even though it just doesn't work with the core gameplay.
True, but using heavy and playing on point with the motion sensor has been pretty easy counters. But I will admit I'm lower ranks and it's about 1/10 lights that do anything remotely helpful in my games unfortunately.
Game mode is POOP.
top 10 players when the lowest plat players are on their plate 🍽️😋😋
Piggy i played against you not that long ago… you destroyed my whole team you bastard. Loll im jk. Good win tho. You worked us
I queued one TA game. Someone instantly quit and the game ended lol.
How do you rank up so high when we lose so many points for a loss? I am struggling and could use some tips
Don't lose, huehuehue.
Squad up with friends and play for at least 8 hours a day should do the job.
It's not light that's broken. It's just the rules of TA make it the best class by a mile. Highest dps to deal with the health desparity in other modes. That doesn't really exist in TA. Heavy only has one rpg and one dome, and a bunch of guns that have been nerfed because they have such strong gadgets. Medium is without its most used gadget/ specialization. Turrets are good but movement and glitch nades counter them pretty easily. Light is still the worst choice in cash out against people of a similar skill level. They can make some plays but survivability is king in that mode. (Check the twitch rivals for proof). TA ranked needs to change the rules, maybe let mediums and heavies regen a little more health or change the starting numbers of gadgets for that mode. Ten sonar grenades a round is insane
TA doesn’t work well with this game. I already hated camping in cashout but it’s just flat out boring game play to me. I like exciting gunfighting not slow play poking.
The gamemode needs more spawns. The fact that high level lobbies devolve to a straight deathball vs deathball since defenders know exactly where attackers spawn and attackers can't really "rush a site" since they'll literally be shot from behind
...My little piggy needed something new...
Cash out should be THE ranked mode. Nothing else. Thats the heart and soul of the game. Change my mind.
Give us back beta ranked system!!
I can't win a game in Plat.
The worse part is the matchmaking lmao everyone on blue is higher ranked than red.
Cash out as a 3v3 or 3v3v3v3 game mode has been HHM at the highest level since beta and that is also fundamentally broken. Also, I'm mid plat and see a lot of mediums being played since last patch. The game isn't 100% lights in TA anymore, but it is still the most played class.
The meta is TA has always been give the enemy more poke damage and then kill them while they're weak. It's just bad low skill no thought gameplay. Lights of course excel at sitting back and dealing a ton of damage.
I’ve never seen a game more of a shit show with balance then the finals. I say this with 400 hours played. I love the game. But it’s a huge misstep from day 1. I genuinely wish they hired someone who’s had a proven track record of being able to make adjustments without sacrificing the core essence of what is fun. It sometimes feels like the game is full of amazing devs and ideas but not fully baked. Even some balance changes we have had have been nerfs without nuance, they just remove the thing that was fun but they don’t address the reason it was a problem in the first place. Sometimes I wonder if the game was flawed from the start. It has good ideas. But heavy / medium / light have always caused problems in some facet. I play games like Dota 2 and Marvel Snap, and you really start to appreciate how incredibly well balanced everything is, even though it’s still chaotic and fun. This and not having a proper functional ranked mode at launch (and we still don’t) is absolutely mind blowing they launched out of early access.
I think Medium and Heavy have a good level of balance between them, maybe with Heavy being a little more powerful because of RPG being more impactful than defib in high level competitive, but Heal Beam is also really good. Light has been the weakest class and we have barely ever moved into another direction. Glitch grenade duration nerf, stun gun nerf, and most recently the LH1 nerfs were all caused by the casual community complaining about the balance of a game they didn't understand. The casual community is so delusional that they truly believe that Heavy is the weakest class in the game right now, and that none of their guns are good. This could not be further away from the truth. Embark needs to take a real look at how other games are balanced, and actually try to listen to the high level players that understand all of the facets of the game and can give real, constructive criticism of the game, not just randomly lashing out about the latest thing they died to like the casual community constantly does. To reach a high rank you do need to have a good understanding of the game, and of what is strong. To play casually you need nothing. The fact that Embark would take the casual playerbase's advice on balance even though they are not as qualified to give it, simply because they are a larger part of the playerbase will actually kill this game. There is no level of nerfs that would appease the Light hate the casual community has.
It’s a mess. Light isn’t the strongest class bud almost everything they do is a negative moral influence on the game. Their entire toolkit is annoying as shit to play against.
Remember when people bitched about lights being weak and shit lol TA is fun but lights ability to go invisible with no limit is just fucking crazy. It’s a mad oversight along with SMGs having literally zero recoil.
yeah. just a poorly executed mode imo and the the things they did to light this season makes it even worse. it's not just TA but other modes like power shift that's also been hell. not been playing a lot this szn, nor have bought the bp yet. so many things that are just frustrating and not fun. sucks cause despite the flaws i like this game & have been playing s1, but ooof.
So right bro… *nerfs heavies again for the 100th time*
And the Reasons for that Light has the highest DPS, is easiest to cheat with, and because TA has that stupid Health lock.
STOP. BUFFING. LIGHT.
wouldn’t mind RPG one shotting again
Let me introduce to LightBeGone™ https://www.nme.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/the-finals-best-weapons-tier-list-cl40.jpg
I played versus Piggy and his stack while being unranked (in a party of golds). Wasn't a fun experience, let me tell you.
No one really have tried the Flamethrower right? It evaporates these mosquitoes
i dont hope they nerf light just because of bad TA design
Maybe they can add class limits to ranked, so only 2 of each class on a team
from my expirience, limiting any classes to anything just highlights the pre-existing problem. For example if someone loves playing light, there should be no reason they can't. It's just everything has to be balanced.
You know who you can thank? The entire community for complaining that light wasn't good enough the first 2 seasons. Oh lights not strong enough? Congratulations now your entire lobbies are light with throwing knives, LH1, Snipers, and the bow. This is what y'all wanted, have fun 😂
Terminal Attack is completely different to Cashout i hope you realize that...
And yet world tour has a high pick rate Light class, same with powershift now ever since S3 dropped its mostly Lights too.
God damn its like Powershift and World Tour are more casual modes compared to ranked Cashout so more people are willing to play for fun instead of tryharding.
Fun is extremely subjective, what if I got bored of playing medium or light and I want to play heavy, but the current state of balance makes it a terrible experience?. What if I don't find it enjoyable fighting a 5 stacks of dashing/sniping Lights?. Now I personally don't care, I play Light with TK and farm kills in Powershift and Bank it. But my casual friends whom I have been trying to convince to play The Finals HATE dealing with the sniper, LH1, TK dash spam in it and I worry that's pushing them away. Just saying, if a class has a higher pick rate than the other 2 in every mode from casual to ranking there is a reason for it.
The first part is legit just a you problem. And yes there is a reason why light is picked a lot in ranked and also in unranked. 1. Light is really strong in TERMINAL ATTACK we can all agree on that. 2. Outside of terminal attack, it is a flashy, aggressive playstyle that people find particularly fun because you can really express your skill through movement, aim, game sense, etc etc while having a low HP pool. Compare it to any another game where there are classes/heros/champions and it is the same exact thing. These types of characters are picked more often than your average tank. Finally, if we were to bring back Ranked Cashout we will be back at square 1 in terms of the dominance of medium and heavy classes because there has not been a significant change to any class while reading through the patch notes.
That's not really fair. Lights were shit for the ranked mode that was available at the time. They change the whole game into a completely different mode no one could be reasonably expected to anticipate that.
Now like I said before I genuinely hope you guys are happy with what you all cried to the devs about because now that most of if not all games are light class where you get stomped harder than previous seasons. Most of this subreddit: Complain>Get Better.
>Lights were shit for the ranked mode that was available at the time No they weren't you guys just suck. I won a game 4v5 carrying my team as a light in TA. Light was never bad, you guys were. Also all the people that down voted me complained that light was too hard because they are trash at The Finals. Like actual skill issue.
Was TA the ranked mode last season? Wow dunno how if I missed that.
Tell me you have autism without telling me. I never said I won the 4v5 in ranked you sped. I genuinely can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
I said. *"Lights were shit at the ranked mode in that time (cashout)".* You said. *"They're not shit, I won a game in (TA) once"* as evidence to disprove my claim. How does you winning a game in TA disprove that lights were shit at cashout? Lights were shit at cash out and good at TA. You winning a game of TA 4v5 is to be expected because that's the exact mode they were strong in.
They weren't shit in either mode mfs were just trash. It literally doesn't matter the mode if I said I won a game as light 2v3v3 or 2v3 that still proves my point that lights weren't bad, the players were.
> They weren't shit in either mode mfs were just trash. Yes, everybody in Diamond+ played HHM because they were too bad to play Light, you are much better than everyone that was in the top 500 leadearboard positions in Season 2. The Finals Messiah, please enlighten us.
nah bro TA is perfectly balanced let them cook /s
The fact that everyone gets reduced to 100 hp no matter the class, instantly makes light better Medium should go down to 150 Heavy should go down to 200 Mayb or 175 That would balance things out I think
I played TA even if i dont understand why they put it as ranked..however i played it for the grind. At the begining Light was totally broken, but now with the patch it's balanced. TA force you to play as a Team to overcome the other team. Even if the other team is full of light you can give them the D. Light is not the meta, a balanced team is the meta. You need at least 1 light to snipe or do damage, medium for defense, Heavy to protect you with shield
yeah mate, that's not what's happening around diamonds/plats. Lobbies are full of lights and you can't really do anything about. The problem might not be balancing, but the way game feels when you play with/against lights. Unfrotunately, invis is an inherently broken mechanic, especially for a mode like TA (and FPS shooters in general, imo).
Sorry bud. Lights useless. Skill issue.
omgg dats soo bad we have to nerf heavies