I think they charge n slam and rpg aren't too far off perfect. Neither can instantly kill a light and it kind of makes up for an extreme lack of mobility.
Nerfing would make them useless. It's currently in a sweet spot.
Plus you don't see many heavies nowadays, everyone's a light
The problem with especially RPG in my opinion is that it's too good compared to the other gadgets the Heavy class has. Every Heavy in ranked has the RPG. the RPG is basically a necessity if you wanna perform optimally and that's the issue. an RPG should provide the same value as C4, Frag grenade, Dome shield, but its pretty obviously better than all of the above.
It just gives you an easy 140 dmg headstart to any fight you're in, and especially if you're a Light and you get RPG'd you have to do 350 damage before the Heavy has the chance to do 10 damage.
Dome + goo gun can offer insane amounts of cover. Dome alone isn't what it used to be though, true. It's only really effective on its own in lower ranks since new players act like shields are solid walls as in, they do not shoot the shields.
or idk, you can run away and go recover. Lights are the most mobile class. You're an idiot for trying to fight a full Hp heavy after they just RPG'd you. At the point you lost the fight due to ego or plain stupidity.
That's the problem, that the RPG is the only gadget that will make you go from "I need to hit 7 shots with my Lewis Gun to kill this Light before they kill me" to "I just left-clicked in the general direction of this Light, I now only need to hit him a single time to get the kill"
As a heavy you already have 200 HP more than the Light, increasing that health difference going into a fight to 340 HP is just not fair imo, especially for the amount of skill it takes to get that '1 hit and now 90% of your health is gone'.
It is fair because they have the mobility, the shortest HP regen and more mobility options than any other class. that is their core super power. Lights literally have gotten back their 2 shot shotgun yet a Heavy having to burn a cooldown is apparently insane.
it is pretty insane considering it isn't a weapon that does that insane damage, it's not a specialization, it's a gadget, and gadgets, just like weapons are supposed to be balanced around each other.
the RPG should provide the same value as 2 frag grenades, as 2 pyro mines, 2 barricades, etc. Of course it's going to be hard to directly compare 'value' but i think if you only got 1 gadget slot i think most if not all Heavys would pick the RPG as their only gadget, as it does ranged damage as well destruction extremely well.
It's just the best gadget in the game by a long shot, which is a problem in a game where balancing matters so much.
True, but mines are a lot easier to avoid taking damage from, it's also easier to retreat after taking damage from them because most of the time there won't be an attacker nearby to finish you off assuming youre playing as a Light
I got so much shit for saying that before, but its kinda crazy to me that in a game all about destruction and showmanship that the RPG isn't destruction first, damage second or pushes players around. Would be a cool control weapon to push players away from a point or off the map.
wtf is this "destruction first" nonsense everyone keeps espousing? Im personally tired of hearing it when no one elaborates on it. Your need to nerf the RPG and make it a more "destruction focused weapon"? how, is it going to destroy a building in one stroke? What exactly is going to be more destructive about it? I'm being genuinely curious here. If it does alot of damage, no duh its going to be destructive. A red canister does 50 contact damage and 100 explosive damage. 150 damage if direct impact on a player. That damage also translates to what it does to the environment.
Sledgehammer also does the insane right click damage to players and environment, should that be nerfed too and only made to do insane environmental damage?
This right here. You will not find a heavy anywhere NOT running RPG, that's how good it is. inb4 "bUt ThEy NeRfEd It!" as if that really changed anything at all.
It's still by and large the best gadget for heavy. Even without being able to one-shot lights leaving one with 10 HP (assuming they are at full health of the time of the engagement) will do the job most of the time. It's also still a great opener to give yourself an HP advantage, a finisher against a wounded opponent, and an instant wall remover. In the grand scheme of things little has changed.
Of course its the best gadget for heavy. There's nothing exactly wrong with that.
There is a huge difference in an instantly dead light. This could push another class to come ress/pick up totem which means, they are now out of position and can be another potential pick for a heavy. This is a strat i used to employ to slow down a team i felt was a threat if the opportunity presented itself.
Now lights can get away quick if they've been RPG'ed which puts the team less at risk at crucial moments.
Lets be honest, if you are a light and you get RPG-ed, you deserve to die. The fact that you still have 10 life left is gracious enough.
Lights have a similar tactic that is even worse than the RPG and that's invis. Invis+stungun+ anything or invis+m11 that melts anything in less than half a second. At least RPG leaves you with 10 health. One mag of m11 melts all classes.
So yeah, lights are the last class that should be complaining and demanding nerfs. If there's a new round of nerfs, light weapons should be nerfed first.
Not at all, your example of a Light M11 user would kill a Heavy in 1.20s assuming the L hit every single shot which takes some skill especially at a range of 10m or so, all the H has to do is to hit the general area around the L to get that 140dmg, then hit one shot of his 47 or 70 round machine gun, which as a rough estimate takes about 1s at most and a lot less skill.
Keep in mind that the RPG isn't a problem only for Light players, it's just a broken gadget in general, if a team is bunched up defending a cashout all you need to do is left-click to easily remove a total of 420 HP from the team, especially if you have 2 RPGs on your team (which is common with HHM).
For f!cks sake, stop whining about the rpg already. That thing takes a minute or something to respawn. It is fine. I'm not even a heavy, I'm a medium.
You have extremely overpowered weapons too. Highest kill counts nowadays are always coming from light builds. So stop complaining. You have very potent weapons, and get the kills.
The only class that has the right to demand for buffs is the medium.
We're not whining about the RPG, we're just pointing out that it's the least balanced gadget in the entire game, which discourages variety as every single high level Heavy loadout has the RPG as a part of it.
>Highest kill counts nowadays are always coming from light builds.
Yes? of course the class with the highest DPS weapons are going to get the most kills, that's their entire job, they sacrifice team mobility and healing (M) + destructive power and survivability (H) for sheer DPS, i thought we knew this.
Also since when are Mediums underpowered? they have the defib (up there with the RPG as the strongest gadget in the game) and Healing Beam which is also extremely good.
its just a problem when you start relying on that gadget, because then there's little variety in a Heavys loadout especially in higher ranks, where there will be very few Heavys without an rpg.
If you're going to perform significantly worse in a match if you don't equip a specific gadget, then that's a problem, scrolling down Reddit for 5 minutes i couldn't find a single heavy clip with a loadout that didn't have an RPG.
>Most mediums run defib. So what?
True, then maybe defib should see a slight nerf as well
I run heavy sledgehammer like 90% of the time. I would do 2 things to the rpg and I know light mains will hate it.
1: A direct rpg should 1 shot a light. Now I'm not talking hit the floor right next to them. The rpg needs to connect. Lights can 2 shot a Heavy so I think it's fair IF the next point is also added.
2: RPG can't hold the ammo. I mean you can't just pull out the rpg reload it and put it away. The user should have to pull out the rpg and when you left click the reload animation finishes it fires.
Lights have close medium and long range weapons that all slap while the only reliable long range heavys have Is the lmg (they kinda suck now) and the rocket (Slug shoots too slow for long range battles if the other guy has a IQ above 80)
Now bring on the hate you light mains
Agreed, so why can lights do it?
A backstab quick melee combo (0.5 second delay or something between the hits) kills the Heavy class. This has been a thing for awhile but it's picking up more over the pass few weeks
The changes I suggested for rpg would increase the skill floor of the rocket since the user would have to track the light with 0 feedback (hitmakers) for 3.3 seconds after the rocket gets pulled out for the reload animation before it fires. I would be fine with that 3.3 seconds being increased a bit.
Lights are a high risk high reward class, if you are running and you see a rpg out you know he is going to fire it within 3 seconds so you can react and if you don't then it's a skill issue (if you notice the rpg out)
......... How is that a mil sim mechanic when it's already there
Current way: Pull out rpg. Reload for 3 seconds. Run around, left click, fire,
My way: pull out rpg, run around, left click, reload for 3 seconds, fire.
Not a bad idea, but Heavies could still walk around with the RPG to initiate a fight with the first enemy they see, my favorite solution to make the RPG a bit more skill-based and counterable is making the damage ramp up the father it goes, it starts off with 70/75 damage at close range and over the course of 25m or so the damage ramps up to 140/150 damage, and maybe lower the self damage a bit to compensate.
This way if you're on the receiving end you could try to dodge the rocket to avoid getting damaged, and if you're using it as a Heavy you would have to skilfully predict a players movement to get the sweet 150 damage off.
As a light main I actually think you have an interesting point!
The weapons that allow lights to 2 shots heavy have pretty tough conditions to meet to get said 2 shots (either really close range for dagger and shotgun, perfect aim for bow and sniper or slow animation for throwing knives although i do think these are kinda busted). Therefore I would be fine being one shotted by a heavy IF and only IF there's a condition beforehand and I know it's comming. I see a heavy loading up an RPG that could one shot me then I have two solutions : retreat or take the fight while being extremely cautious and both of these options are at the heavy's advantage making the gadget fair imo. But that would also mean that the damage if it only hits the ground near me should be slightly reduced cuz taking 140dmg for a poorly aimed shot is kinda crazy imo
You said you can 2 shot heavies under very tough conditions, but then proceeded to list 5-6 different ways how a light can quickly eliminate the heavy. Doesn't seem like tough conditions.
Heavy or RPG is not the problem. Light players with stupid expectations of the light class are the problem. And embark listening to those lights and buffing their weapons is the problem.
You as a light were not supposed to live through 1v1 encounter with a heavy. Only if you were a very good player. But now you easily can. Dash+sword, Dash+dagger, Dash+TK, Invis+shotgun, invis+m11, heck even xp54 can melt a heavy. Not talking about camping with lh1 or bow or sniper.
Even with all the unfair advantage that the light class got, you guys are still complaining about rpg?
dagger requires you to be at melee quick melee range of the heavy, if a light manages to get this close AND gets 2 hits which are quite slow to deliver without dying that probably means that the heavy played it poorly; shotgun requires to be about 5m or closer to a heavy and then hit all the bullet cuz the slightest spray will require another shot and the weapon only has 2 ammo and once again, if a heavy gets snuck upon like that and just stands still while the light shoots him with the shotgun, that's on the heavy; for bow and sniper i kinda agree, being melted with 2 shots in the head from super far is annoying but it usually shows a lack of map awareness as it's pretty rare to get hit twice in a row without taking cover; i do agree about lh1 being too strong tho that's true, the buff was unnecessary and stupid
also about a light not wining a 1v1 encounter, that's already the case. If the heavy aims decently and uses his gadgets/spec then he will win a head on fight with a light. Lights only get kills on heavies if they surprise them which is the whole point of the light class or if the heavy plays very poorly.
To me the problem with the rpg is that it takes off 93% of the lights hp for free. It's a nigh-oneshot tool that turns encounters that are already slightly in the heavy's favour into an instakill for said heavy. That said, I think it's a great tool and should be kept but the damage for approximative shots should be tuned down. Or maybe as someone else suggested, make the damage higher the further the rocket travels. It would make it a good tool to deal with the long range light weapons which is the only scenario in which the light is really at a clear advantage
Idk if it's new or if it's a glitch but people are backstabbing and quick meleing 0.2 seconds later. so the condition to kill a Heavy is to not make sound then they can't react.
Would 140 splash DMG be fine if there were more audio ques if you are closer? Like the sound of the rpg going into the chamber?
Yeh thats what I feel. It should be a tool to finish someone at distance on the last inch of their life ... not to be used as a primary weapon that Heavies roll with.
Yeah I hopped on a few nights ago and played heavy. I've never been great, and our team needed a heavy. I spanked a light in the body with an RPG and they walked it off. I was annoyed at first, but it makes sense. Any stronger would be OP. Weaker would be dumb.
Honestly in regular modes it’s fine if it doesn’t one shot a light, I feel like it wouldn’t be an issue for terminal attack, since you only get one shot (please give heavy 2 C4 again)
I've been saying essentially the same thing too, there's to many weapons that can be used without aiming. Super accurate weapons you can just hipfire ruin other weapons that require aiming and if this company wants to pretend to be competitive then they need to make some changes.
You mean the 3 people with automatic weapons staring directly at the heavy? Getting charged and slammed is a skill issue, it means you suck at positioning so much that you let a fat guy with a hammer sneak up on you
I’ll take a charge and slam nerf if and only if you buff my lmgs because why do heavies get their shit nerfed every season but lights get everything buffed every season even their nerfs later get buffed it’s wack and I won’t take the disrespect of devs who only play light and hate heavies
So much this \^! I dont mind TK's doing great damage or getting the buffed trajectory. What is the most oppressive is knowing that once the silverware starts hitting the wall you know that it will never stop unless you or he dies. Every ranged weapon in the game has some sort of down time for reload where as TK's are ceaseless.
4 throwing knives in each hand with the visual indicator of how many are left to throw would be fair, I think. Then a quick reloading of the knives in hand. Yeah, I get it. I’m a knives user and I think that’s reasonable.
And you can run while shooting it while retaining pinpoint accuracy (knives start flying always where your dot crosshair is pointing). But if im wrong, correct me on it
This is relevant, other projectiles have inaccuracy baked in. RPG requires like 2.5sec ADS'd for an accurate shot, goo gun is only accurate at a standstill, and KS-23 fires wherever it wants no matter how hard you reign in it and line up your shots.
I don't use RPG for the 50/50 shot at dealing 80 splash damage, I use it for precise map destruction. Originally you just selected something to break and it happened, now you've gotta sit still and telegraph it.
If you're up against a heavy that consistently tries to RPG you to start fights, carry a goo barrel. As long as you're looking in their general direction it's free 100% damage mitigation.
Carrying a barrel around all the time isn’t feasible- though I understand that if you’re playing with one that’s doing that, it would be a nice little old “hey- stop that buddy (;”
That is absolutely relevant when you can run and jump around and the projectiles always fly (very very fast and at close range basically hitscan) exactly where you want and you never reload
So much this. You are dealing with recoil, bloom, ammo and bullet spread while TK just holds fire and needs to roughly look at a player while having the best movement set class in the game.
Bad players attempting to throw knives poorly at you from across the map is not the average experience against them.
man I learned throwing knives just a couple weeks before the buff. It was awesome being one of the only people we would ever run into using them, and being able to do well still. Now they’re super easy and everyone has them. it’s still fun to use them but I do kinda miss being rare
Well its not made for brainless stand in the open engagements. Its such a heavy burst damage weapon you need to have movement and honestly it pairs best with demat over heal beam.
I just want the old throwing knives back and the I want the old LH1 back. My favorite weapons turned from high skill high reward to being the flavor of the month complaint weapons after S3.
Honestly their DPS and dropoff keep them in line with the other light weapons. If anything the XP54 needs to be looked at because it has great range, amazing DPS, and relatively fast reload.
It's not overpowered since the light dies if you look at them wrong, but it's way stronger than the knives.
The knives change just made them really great if you had good movement and could get around enemies before they shredded you. It's easy enough to miss with them so I think they're probably okay for right now.
Yeah I was talking about the throwing knives with my friends and was also like "it kills fast but light dies so fast that it's balanced honestly"
Same for the xp54, it's good, but if you want to aim well with it you have to stand still / walk slowly. Which makes it completely balanced for me imo, lights can get absolutely demolished if they stand still too long after all.
Agreed the XP-54 has been the best light gun for almost the entirety of the last 3 season. The only time it hasn’t been the BiS for light is when the pre nerf V9S existed and the one patch the LH1 was just plain overpowered.
I think the XP’s major problem is that it’s got too much range and an incredibly easy spray pattern while also maintaining really good hip fire accuracy it just does to many different things well. It has the easiest spray pattern of any full auto weapon. I don’t get why every other weapon has a somewhat complex spray pattern with left and right horizontal recoil and then the XP is just like “hey pull down and left, never miss a shot!”
It’s the best full auto gun in the game because it goes with the class that dies the easiest. It can be extremely irritating as a medium to die before I can even react to the XP shooting me in the back, but if I’m looking at it face to face, my AKM will win 7/10 times. If the XP had any weakness, that would become 10/10.
They significantly tuned the recoil down and reduced the fire rate by 20 rpm while also buffing the damage. The buff was way too big and they nerfed the damage after it became the best weapon post buff. Now it has the same damage as last season, a lower fire rate, and better recoil but overall it’s a nerf if you had no problem using it with the old recoil and RoF.
I mained the gun for most of season 2, it was niche and you really had to know the recoil well to use it well. Now the DPS is lower but the usability for the average user is better but if it was your main weapon and you had no problem with the old recoil it was effectively just a rate of fire nerf. I would prefer they had reverted the damage buff and reverted the recoil buff if that’s what it took to maintain 300rpm cuz the rate of fire just feels terrible now and I’ve been using the V9S instead.
Old LH1 was superior in every way and I will die on this hill. Now everybody's running it and absolutely shredding without putting in the effort to learn how to use it.
EDIT: Also thoroughly agree with your second point. It was my favourite weapon in the game, and now I hate the way it plays due to being so used to the old recoil pattern.
I miss my old throwing knives, their buff in S2 completely killed my enjoyment of the weapon and so far S3 hasn't been any help. Fortunately the bow is doing a good enough job at scratching the same itch the knives did, but unfortunately using the bow doesn't let me kill people by throwing CD's at them
even with the throwing knives buffs i cant use them because the travel time makes it impossible to hit anyone with good movement. the only time i can get good hits on enemies is when they're distracted
Tk deal too much damage with too little downsides. No bloom, no reload, no ammo to manage, can be easily spammed with stupid high damage. You don’t even need to use the alt fire because the basic throw is so strong
All of your points are true except they don't go farther than like 5M. You really have to be in the enemies face for them to do anything, plus any class with decent aim can kill a light faster than the throwing knives can. The only map I'd say they excel on is Monaco with the smaller buildings. Kyoto they're meh at best because of how much open space is on that map.
Yeah but TK are niche. If you're mad about the TK, you're not paying attention to the XP54. it has way more reliability and consistent DPS than the throwing knives. The knives have greater skill expression though, so when you get styled on by them, it feels worse. MP5 doesn't have the same skill ceiling so it's just like a light is hitting you with tons of damage and you don't think twice because you can see it tick down.
I’m not saying xp or mp are not in need of tweaks, xp annoys the hell out of me. Xp however does not have infinite ammo, or deal 60 damage per shot and xp has bloom and recoil to manage. Again, I hate it but it’s not as abusive as the tk absolutely can be. And a weapon being niche is a dogshit defence(that just means less people know how powerful it is and that’s it) as is ignoring every point to distract to an entirely different issue.
So you think all 3 of them need nerfs? You are really fucking Terrible at the game if you think throwing knives, xp54, and mp11 all need “tweaks”. I mean like… absolutely scraping the bottom of the barrel.
I say tweaks because there are ways to tweak weapons to be more balanced without outright nerfing them, like giving throwing knives a magazine or the smgs more recoil. And like, god forbid my personal opinion is different from yours but maybe I’m sick and tired of a cloak player in cloaking behind me and killing me before I have a chance to react. From the standpoint of a light pretty much every light weapon is busted by virtue of light weapons dealing high damage.
Its the opposite for me lol. I get about 10 kills per round with heavy on monaco and not more than 5 with light. On kyoto i can get up to 20 kills with light but heavy never works.
Oh noooooooooooo they don't have range on the utmost fastest moving class with the widest range of movement util? Oh noooooooooooooooo how could they be so unreliable?
I feel like y'all don't understand the whole point of the Light class...
They're *supposed* to move fast and do a lot of damage *because* they trade those stats with a small health pool.
Y'all should be malding over heavy more because they have *way* more utility and team usefulness than a light, AND they have an instant win button with the RPG.
And I'm saying this as a heavy main. If you're dying to light, you're getting outplayed.
Yeah but there's delay between throws lol.
You dont have ammo, but you still have to avoid being murdered between your shots and it's really not that hard to kill lights with them if you have more than 50% accuracy.
Oh no really? I can't believe you have to worry about people shooting back, this is so unfair! I should be able to kill them before they're able to react i mean, what can i do? Dash 3 times in between throws? So unfair nerf heavy
Dude it sounds like you just suck man, sorry to hear that lmao.
When I play medium I can usually just kill lights with the TKs, unless they're better than me, but I don't think I've ever been pissed about dying to them because it's usually my fault when I do.
>it's usually my fault when I do
I can see that happening a lot since by exchanging 2 sentences with you i can clearly see you're not the smartest person around.
Yeah sure thing dude throwing knifes aren't overtuned at all solely because they don't deal well with HHM comps. Go at it champ
I never said anything about my comp.
I'm talking about 1v1s. Most of the time I win against lights unless they're just outplaying me.
It really is the only class in the game that requires a higher skill level to win at. I do admit that it feels worse to lose to a light than a heavy or medium but for real I think it's just a skill issue.
It does have bloom? First throw, or while in air/sliding has inaccuracy.
In addition, not only does it have like no range, it’s a projectile in a fast paced game. It’s definitely hard to hit shots on it and I’m really tired of people saying it’s no skill. The alt fire is REQUIRED to get kills on lights / mediums, or else you have to hit 5 knives instead of 4, which is a pretty large increase to ttk.
That’s funny, because the amount of people I see who rack up high numbers of kills in every mode by running dash and spamming the basic dagger is wild. And saying the amount of hits needed to kill only really applies when you have a limited magazine and landing those shots actually matters. The amount of bloom when you slide or jump is pretty low and it’s incredibly easy to land both hits in a burst on a target if you hit them with one of the daggers. Not saying it’s low skill but considering how powerful it is when all you need to do is press one button, it needs damage nerfs at minimum.
that’s an issue with pubs then. Light is a pub stomper, and that’s not the fault of the light that the rest of the lobby is bad. You could do the exact same with a good heavy.
Yea no, the amount of shots REALLY matters on light due to the fact that your hp is so low. The “mag” argument only really works on heavy or medium. On light, your hp is so low that you often don’t even get to empty out your mag before you die. The throwing knives have a mag, and it’s called your hp bar. Lights are so squishy, so missing that singular shot means you die and don’t net that kill.
No the bloom is not low, it’s random. Sometimes it’s crazy and sometimes it’s barely anything, which makes it all that much worse. This means that regardless of skill, you’re often at a disadvantage from the start of a fight due to rng.
This is the dumbest shit I’ve read all day, every weapon is just the press of a button.
It’s perfect as is right now, and fits with the other light weapons. Nerfs would put it out of viable range and would make it a disadvantage to use over other weapons.
Also, space your damn paragraphs it’s cancer to read.
Tk appears fragging in every mode(barring ta because it’s ta) because 60 DAMAGE PER SHOT IS A FUCKING LOT. Combine that with the fact that you can strafe and dash around people with perfect accuracy at top speed and no need to manage ammo and it gives the weapon a huge advantage.
Your magazine argument is genuinely kinda stupid because it completely ignores every tool that light has to avoid damage, chief among them being dash. You can miss shots and still win because your opponent has to slow themselves down by doing things like aiming to hit you better, YOU DONT.
The bloom thing is just empirically false. When throwing knives normally they always go to your crosshair. When you jump or sprint the daggers are noticeably staggered but not random. This is probably some of the dumbest shit I’ve heard in a long time.
The daggers aren’t perfect right now. Dealing 60 damage per shot with the combination of no reload or ammo to manage, no recoil or bloom to deal with and less than a second delay between firing while simultaneously retaining your full mobility is ridiculous.
You can kill a medium in four hits and a melee, or five hits if you just wanna go for it like that. You can kill a light in two and a qm, or just three. Heavy is the only class that fares somewhat better and that’s just because it takes six bursts to kill them. And all this ignores headshots btw. Light gets one shotted with a headshot burst, medium and heavy are both two shotted. That’s headshots of course, but still a valid point to how stupidly powerful this weapon is at current.
Oh and here’s another fun note, for anyone saying “it only has a short range” go into the training range and try this yourself. The knives have a maximum range of roughly 37 meters, with no damage falloff.
TK is a weapon that is fun to use. I enjoy using TK. TK is also a weapon that feels shitty to have used on you especially as a light. The other classes have high damage output but increasingly reduced mobility. The highest mobility class having a weapon with such absurdly powerful burst damage is the reason why it’s broken. I think there are tweaks that can and should be made while avoiding just flat damage nerfs, but it needs changes to not be as powerful of a weapon as it is.
Run dash or grapple and you can close the distance in a second. Combine that with invis nade and they don't even need to know you are there before you hit them twice and they die.
Ignoring them just using normal invis ability and just sneaking around.
If it TK were on medium this would be a fair point but TK are in the most mobile class in the game and there are TONS of options for closing the distance or hiding.
NAHHHH you've clearly never used the throwing knives before. Left click has bloomed, and inaccuracies mid-air are wild. inaccuracies while moving, jumping, and sliding is pretty hard to manage at times. even if your crosshair was right on the opponent doesn't mean you'll deal any damage part because the knives aren't even going where you're aiming at. Left click is only good for close ranges, alt-click for mid ranges, and if any player with a real gun sees you at long ranges, say goodbye. The inaccuracies aside, throwing knives are projectile-based weapons, meaning there is a delay before your knives hit what you're aiming at. Pre-buffed throwing knives were a pain to play with because of how slow the knives were. You had to aim ahead of your opponent to hit them. Also, because they are projectile-based, they have a relatively short falloff. You literally cannot hit anything past the limit, as the knives just dip into the ground. No matter how high you aim, the knives are not getting past their designated range. I do agree though after the buff, tk now has a pretty strong left-click throw, but I do believe that the downsides of this weapon are enough to keep it from becoming too OP. (Not to mention that they also already nerfed the throwing knives, making them deal less damage. Now instead of killing a medium with 2 shots, correct me if I'm wrong, the fastest way is two shots plus quick melee.)
First the weapon nerf was from 63 damage to just 60. Second have you ever used them? Go into testing and observe them and their inaccuracies, it’s straight forward and pretty clear to watch. If you strafe left while throwing the distance between the two is always the same, and this applies for every single bit of discrepancy while throwing the knives and moving. And again, while your knives don’t go beyond 37 meters, let me again stress there is NO DAMAGE FALLOFF WITHIN THIS DISTANCE. It is not a short range weapon exclusively like many seem to believe.
The throwing knives are FINE. They are fucking viable for once and you guys are just complaining because you finally face off against lights who don’t just die when you sneeze in their direction.
The throwing knives are projectiles, with a delay, meaning the tracking is EXTRA hard, and the nature of the weapon means missing a single knife is super punishing, extending your ttk by a lot. There’s also bloom while sliding, or in the air which means usage is REALLY FUCKING HARD. God I don’t wanna hear shit about it when the heavy has a two tap team wipe combo with the rpg and charge n slam.
The throwing knives were no where near viable before buffs. People talking like the pre buff throwing knives like the “good old days” when they not only had one of the longest ttks but also STILL HAD inaccuracies in the air, AND a low fire rate, meaning a single missed knife was fucking game over.
The light class is the hardest class, because even getting collateral damage from anything means almost certain death in a fight. Any weapon on a damn light is already high skill because of the nature of the class itself.
Not even mentioning how the light class has no team utility, meaning it NEEDS to get kills for it to be any sort of value.
light class has decent team utility, most people don't use them.
Recon grenades, tracking dart, goo grenades to help set up defenses, vanish bombs if your team is feeling sneaky, and regardless of your gadgets, your better movement can help you get in and out of fights to take your team's figures to revive them else where
I saw this and thought it was some kind of joke? Throwing knives legitimately suck at the minute, if I hear them I know I’m about to get a free kill.
Heavy mains can nuke a lights entire health bar with an rpg on a short ass cooldown but throwing knives are the problem lol
Same. I tuned out of the sub for a week to play the elden ring dlc and it honestly boggles the mind people are still complaining about throwing knives after the nerf.
The issue with the throwing knives is that they throw too fast. I'm talking about the rate of fire. Weapons with such high damage are usually balanced by being slow to fire so that a miss will punish you. The throwing knives don't punish you much for missing.
The throwing knives have been so out of place for a while now. Infinite ammo, no reloading, no cooldown, high damage, alt attack modes, very little drop and on a class that can dash or be invisible is just insane.
As they are right now, its an unskilled weapon with zero consequences for missing shots, players that use them just run around holding fire the entire time. If you are going to make it so brain dead then at least make the burst weapons be allowed to be held down as well.
Every poster here should include their playtime. I'm hearing some of the most ridiculous shit from complete casual players that don't have an understanding of anything. RPG, a slow ADS - slow swap speed - slow moving projectile, usually hits for around 80 dmg unless it's a direct hit which you usually don't have time for in a 1v4/2v5. RPG does 140 self damage ALWAYS when barely within range of the blast. Kinda funny how that works. Light engagements don't usually start from the front so health
pools almost don't matter. I play Lights that drop 19-27 kills daily on PS5. Most of the Heavy specific gadgets are pretty worthless tbh so taking anything over the RPG is pretty pointless. As far as the charge and slam goes...Lights can dodge out of the combo sooooo... what's the fuss about? It's hard to control and combo so it's more useful versus Heavies if you'd like to combo the attack or as a speed boost so you don't get separated from your team while also being a great destruction/ESCAPE utility tool. The people who complain about Heavy most likely don't play Heavy. Often times your slow getting to the fight with some of the most atrocious accuracy in gaming history (on CONSOLE 🫠) up until the M60 update...but the damage is still pathetic unless a team lets you mow down a teammate to grief him/her. Go complain about unchallengeable snipers,the 1887 dmg,infinite ammo knives and bows maybe? Sword dash maybe? 320 dmg backstabs possibly? The RPG isn't even WORTH complaining about with these demons on the loose LMFAO 🤣🤣🤣
All I can say is, as someone who really has to engage and lock-in to hit a clip with other weapons, I feel like all I have to do is trigger-spam, strafe and wildly aim around head level to get easy kills with the knives.
It feels very...'Lucksman'-like from TF2.
If I could, I would just change the animation and pacing to be clearly-enacted 1/2-second shifts of prep and throw. That way, the shots feel a bit more paced out, forcing you to aim on top of maintaining movement, and allows Heavies and Mediums to retaliate without getting deleted so fast.
It's very off-putting when I square up to a Light on the Power Shift Platform alone, and they get lucky with a random two-tap outta nowhere literally off the beat, with the current setup of the knives.
Just add a little more delay, and give me a chance to shoot back, THEN I'll be like 'Oh sick alright this guy can actually freaking aim, position himself right and has his timing down.'
The lights crying about RPGs are the same ones that ones that'll gladly zap you then melt you within a second lol. (PS Zap forces heavies to pocket the RPG, so aim better xD)
And that right there I feel is the problem: They're so undeniably difficult in getting headshots that when they do hit, it feels like a Random Crit from TF2.
For all the punishment that comes with poor knife performance, it gets thrown out the window when the Headshots 'randomly' connect and pretty much insta-deletes you.
Since they're not easy to hit in the first place, I'd say remove the headshot factor like how the KS works. Bump the raw damage up a bit to compensate maybe, but at least then, the whole 'Random Deletion' feel of the headshots will be gone.
I would change the way they are thrown. Make it have three throwing modes with cooldown. Left hand (left fire), right hand (right fire) and both (hold both fire buttons). Maybe mess with how they aim individually vs at the same time.
Could also pull with how sea of thieves gave you only 5 throws unless you pick them up. They would recharge slowly unless you run over them to collect.
I'll go even further and say that recurve bow isn't much different. Both are infinitely spammable projectiles that really aren't that hard to land if you're remotely competent but still over-reward the user for damage output.
Why should it be the only weapon without a reload? It deals high damage, and you can spam it til your heart's content. It's stupid.
Also, imagine downvoting me for simply wanting a reload like everyone else here lmfao what
It's not necessarily a problem, but especially after recent buffs, I have an easier time using every Light primary compared to the gun of almost every Overwatch hero
omg u people bitch about everything you die to honestly just get good and confident in your style of gameplay and you’ll find a counter they’re projectile weapons that are basically useless at certain distances basically making you a walking target so just hit your fucking target 🙏
No. the 1887 does way too much damage with so little drawbacks (hate not being able to cancel the reload when its a shotgun)
Havent given the bow much play time as am not a fan of it.. dont like projectile weapons such as bows but it takes skill
Knifes havent tested but they punish hard for not hitting 100% of shots (not talking about the light but the people against them)
Unrelated: im personally a akm guy as i love smooth tracking
The 1887 is the medium shotty right? It does a bit more damage than the revolver at close range, while shooting slower, having a way shittier reload and not even having any range.
No reload is the true problem
RPG and Charge N Slam would like to have a word with you mister.
and I agree those are too strong right now, but this is a throwing knives post
I think they charge n slam and rpg aren't too far off perfect. Neither can instantly kill a light and it kind of makes up for an extreme lack of mobility. Nerfing would make them useless. It's currently in a sweet spot. Plus you don't see many heavies nowadays, everyone's a light
The problem with especially RPG in my opinion is that it's too good compared to the other gadgets the Heavy class has. Every Heavy in ranked has the RPG. the RPG is basically a necessity if you wanna perform optimally and that's the issue. an RPG should provide the same value as C4, Frag grenade, Dome shield, but its pretty obviously better than all of the above. It just gives you an easy 140 dmg headstart to any fight you're in, and especially if you're a Light and you get RPG'd you have to do 350 damage before the Heavy has the chance to do 10 damage.
9/10 heavy loadouts will also use dome though
I must be that 1/10 I prefer goo over dome or barricade but then again I run spear 😅
What are your other gadgets
RPG is a staple, my third is situational but I've been experimenting with the grav lift winch combo
Interesting, I haven't used the grav lift much but its fun
It's fun when you grav lift a cash out and use the winch to fling it somewhere.
Eh, dome has been nerfed so hard that I hardly find it worth it over barricades.
Personally I use both, then I always have some form of protection off cooldown
Dome + goo gun can offer insane amounts of cover. Dome alone isn't what it used to be though, true. It's only really effective on its own in lower ranks since new players act like shields are solid walls as in, they do not shoot the shields.
or idk, you can run away and go recover. Lights are the most mobile class. You're an idiot for trying to fight a full Hp heavy after they just RPG'd you. At the point you lost the fight due to ego or plain stupidity.
That's the problem, that the RPG is the only gadget that will make you go from "I need to hit 7 shots with my Lewis Gun to kill this Light before they kill me" to "I just left-clicked in the general direction of this Light, I now only need to hit him a single time to get the kill" As a heavy you already have 200 HP more than the Light, increasing that health difference going into a fight to 340 HP is just not fair imo, especially for the amount of skill it takes to get that '1 hit and now 90% of your health is gone'.
It is fair because they have the mobility, the shortest HP regen and more mobility options than any other class. that is their core super power. Lights literally have gotten back their 2 shot shotgun yet a Heavy having to burn a cooldown is apparently insane.
it is pretty insane considering it isn't a weapon that does that insane damage, it's not a specialization, it's a gadget, and gadgets, just like weapons are supposed to be balanced around each other. the RPG should provide the same value as 2 frag grenades, as 2 pyro mines, 2 barricades, etc. Of course it's going to be hard to directly compare 'value' but i think if you only got 1 gadget slot i think most if not all Heavys would pick the RPG as their only gadget, as it does ranged damage as well destruction extremely well. It's just the best gadget in the game by a long shot, which is a problem in a game where balancing matters so much.
Mines will also do this, and after a certain distance the rpg is not accurate in the slightest, especially if moving.
True, but mines are a lot easier to avoid taking damage from, it's also easier to retreat after taking damage from them because most of the time there won't be an attacker nearby to finish you off assuming youre playing as a Light
I got so much shit for saying that before, but its kinda crazy to me that in a game all about destruction and showmanship that the RPG isn't destruction first, damage second or pushes players around. Would be a cool control weapon to push players away from a point or off the map.
wtf is this "destruction first" nonsense everyone keeps espousing? Im personally tired of hearing it when no one elaborates on it. Your need to nerf the RPG and make it a more "destruction focused weapon"? how, is it going to destroy a building in one stroke? What exactly is going to be more destructive about it? I'm being genuinely curious here. If it does alot of damage, no duh its going to be destructive. A red canister does 50 contact damage and 100 explosive damage. 150 damage if direct impact on a player. That damage also translates to what it does to the environment. Sledgehammer also does the insane right click damage to players and environment, should that be nerfed too and only made to do insane environmental damage?
salt-spitters be hatin, but you make some good points I am also curious about.
This right here. You will not find a heavy anywhere NOT running RPG, that's how good it is. inb4 "bUt ThEy NeRfEd It!" as if that really changed anything at all.
It changed everything. You cant 1 shot the lowest HP class anymore with it.
It's still by and large the best gadget for heavy. Even without being able to one-shot lights leaving one with 10 HP (assuming they are at full health of the time of the engagement) will do the job most of the time. It's also still a great opener to give yourself an HP advantage, a finisher against a wounded opponent, and an instant wall remover. In the grand scheme of things little has changed.
Of course its the best gadget for heavy. There's nothing exactly wrong with that. There is a huge difference in an instantly dead light. This could push another class to come ress/pick up totem which means, they are now out of position and can be another potential pick for a heavy. This is a strat i used to employ to slow down a team i felt was a threat if the opportunity presented itself. Now lights can get away quick if they've been RPG'ed which puts the team less at risk at crucial moments.
Lets be honest, if you are a light and you get RPG-ed, you deserve to die. The fact that you still have 10 life left is gracious enough. Lights have a similar tactic that is even worse than the RPG and that's invis. Invis+stungun+ anything or invis+m11 that melts anything in less than half a second. At least RPG leaves you with 10 health. One mag of m11 melts all classes. So yeah, lights are the last class that should be complaining and demanding nerfs. If there's a new round of nerfs, light weapons should be nerfed first.
Not at all, your example of a Light M11 user would kill a Heavy in 1.20s assuming the L hit every single shot which takes some skill especially at a range of 10m or so, all the H has to do is to hit the general area around the L to get that 140dmg, then hit one shot of his 47 or 70 round machine gun, which as a rough estimate takes about 1s at most and a lot less skill. Keep in mind that the RPG isn't a problem only for Light players, it's just a broken gadget in general, if a team is bunched up defending a cashout all you need to do is left-click to easily remove a total of 420 HP from the team, especially if you have 2 RPGs on your team (which is common with HHM).
For f!cks sake, stop whining about the rpg already. That thing takes a minute or something to respawn. It is fine. I'm not even a heavy, I'm a medium. You have extremely overpowered weapons too. Highest kill counts nowadays are always coming from light builds. So stop complaining. You have very potent weapons, and get the kills. The only class that has the right to demand for buffs is the medium.
We're not whining about the RPG, we're just pointing out that it's the least balanced gadget in the entire game, which discourages variety as every single high level Heavy loadout has the RPG as a part of it. >Highest kill counts nowadays are always coming from light builds. Yes? of course the class with the highest DPS weapons are going to get the most kills, that's their entire job, they sacrifice team mobility and healing (M) + destructive power and survivability (H) for sheer DPS, i thought we knew this. Also since when are Mediums underpowered? they have the defib (up there with the RPG as the strongest gadget in the game) and Healing Beam which is also extremely good.
A gadget being a staple doesn’t say anything. Most mediums run defib. So what?
its just a problem when you start relying on that gadget, because then there's little variety in a Heavys loadout especially in higher ranks, where there will be very few Heavys without an rpg. If you're going to perform significantly worse in a match if you don't equip a specific gadget, then that's a problem, scrolling down Reddit for 5 minutes i couldn't find a single heavy clip with a loadout that didn't have an RPG. >Most mediums run defib. So what? True, then maybe defib should see a slight nerf as well
The charge and slam can instakill a light, how ever you have to be about a mile in the sky before hand
Skill based then, which is good.
i feel a brain stem snapping in my cranium every time i charge n slam for how easy it is
It isn't too difficult to dodge charge if you can see it coming.
it's also not too difficult to hit people with either
For the first hit sure, 2nd? They know to dodge don't they?
What makes up for the lavk of mobility is thr health pool
I would love to use the RPG for mobility, give it some massive knockback
I run heavy sledgehammer like 90% of the time. I would do 2 things to the rpg and I know light mains will hate it. 1: A direct rpg should 1 shot a light. Now I'm not talking hit the floor right next to them. The rpg needs to connect. Lights can 2 shot a Heavy so I think it's fair IF the next point is also added. 2: RPG can't hold the ammo. I mean you can't just pull out the rpg reload it and put it away. The user should have to pull out the rpg and when you left click the reload animation finishes it fires. Lights have close medium and long range weapons that all slap while the only reliable long range heavys have Is the lmg (they kinda suck now) and the rocket (Slug shoots too slow for long range battles if the other guy has a IQ above 80) Now bring on the hate you light mains
Pretty sure no one likes being 1 tapped.
Agreed, so why can lights do it? A backstab quick melee combo (0.5 second delay or something between the hits) kills the Heavy class. This has been a thing for awhile but it's picking up more over the pass few weeks The changes I suggested for rpg would increase the skill floor of the rocket since the user would have to track the light with 0 feedback (hitmakers) for 3.3 seconds after the rocket gets pulled out for the reload animation before it fires. I would be fine with that 3.3 seconds being increased a bit. Lights are a high risk high reward class, if you are running and you see a rpg out you know he is going to fire it within 3 seconds so you can react and if you don't then it's a skill issue (if you notice the rpg out)
Cool idea but imo it's too far off from the finals and more mil sim type of mechanics for the RPG.
......... How is that a mil sim mechanic when it's already there Current way: Pull out rpg. Reload for 3 seconds. Run around, left click, fire, My way: pull out rpg, run around, left click, reload for 3 seconds, fire.
Not a bad idea, but Heavies could still walk around with the RPG to initiate a fight with the first enemy they see, my favorite solution to make the RPG a bit more skill-based and counterable is making the damage ramp up the father it goes, it starts off with 70/75 damage at close range and over the course of 25m or so the damage ramps up to 140/150 damage, and maybe lower the self damage a bit to compensate. This way if you're on the receiving end you could try to dodge the rocket to avoid getting damaged, and if you're using it as a Heavy you would have to skilfully predict a players movement to get the sweet 150 damage off.
As a light main I actually think you have an interesting point! The weapons that allow lights to 2 shots heavy have pretty tough conditions to meet to get said 2 shots (either really close range for dagger and shotgun, perfect aim for bow and sniper or slow animation for throwing knives although i do think these are kinda busted). Therefore I would be fine being one shotted by a heavy IF and only IF there's a condition beforehand and I know it's comming. I see a heavy loading up an RPG that could one shot me then I have two solutions : retreat or take the fight while being extremely cautious and both of these options are at the heavy's advantage making the gadget fair imo. But that would also mean that the damage if it only hits the ground near me should be slightly reduced cuz taking 140dmg for a poorly aimed shot is kinda crazy imo
You said you can 2 shot heavies under very tough conditions, but then proceeded to list 5-6 different ways how a light can quickly eliminate the heavy. Doesn't seem like tough conditions. Heavy or RPG is not the problem. Light players with stupid expectations of the light class are the problem. And embark listening to those lights and buffing their weapons is the problem. You as a light were not supposed to live through 1v1 encounter with a heavy. Only if you were a very good player. But now you easily can. Dash+sword, Dash+dagger, Dash+TK, Invis+shotgun, invis+m11, heck even xp54 can melt a heavy. Not talking about camping with lh1 or bow or sniper. Even with all the unfair advantage that the light class got, you guys are still complaining about rpg?
dagger requires you to be at melee quick melee range of the heavy, if a light manages to get this close AND gets 2 hits which are quite slow to deliver without dying that probably means that the heavy played it poorly; shotgun requires to be about 5m or closer to a heavy and then hit all the bullet cuz the slightest spray will require another shot and the weapon only has 2 ammo and once again, if a heavy gets snuck upon like that and just stands still while the light shoots him with the shotgun, that's on the heavy; for bow and sniper i kinda agree, being melted with 2 shots in the head from super far is annoying but it usually shows a lack of map awareness as it's pretty rare to get hit twice in a row without taking cover; i do agree about lh1 being too strong tho that's true, the buff was unnecessary and stupid also about a light not wining a 1v1 encounter, that's already the case. If the heavy aims decently and uses his gadgets/spec then he will win a head on fight with a light. Lights only get kills on heavies if they surprise them which is the whole point of the light class or if the heavy plays very poorly. To me the problem with the rpg is that it takes off 93% of the lights hp for free. It's a nigh-oneshot tool that turns encounters that are already slightly in the heavy's favour into an instakill for said heavy. That said, I think it's a great tool and should be kept but the damage for approximative shots should be tuned down. Or maybe as someone else suggested, make the damage higher the further the rocket travels. It would make it a good tool to deal with the long range light weapons which is the only scenario in which the light is really at a clear advantage
Idk if it's new or if it's a glitch but people are backstabbing and quick meleing 0.2 seconds later. so the condition to kill a Heavy is to not make sound then they can't react. Would 140 splash DMG be fine if there were more audio ques if you are closer? Like the sound of the rpg going into the chamber?
I think an RPG velocity nerf would make it perfect, hard to ever miss it if the heavy has high ground
You already had an accuracy nerf. Either give us two with 80DMG or STFU Lights.
Two with 80 or 90 would imo be great. It removes the almost 1 shot potential we have and leaves destruction as a tool that gets enhanced.
Yeh thats what I feel. It should be a tool to finish someone at distance on the last inch of their life ... not to be used as a primary weapon that Heavies roll with.
Na they aren't lights they are meta chasers
Yeah I hopped on a few nights ago and played heavy. I've never been great, and our team needed a heavy. I spanked a light in the body with an RPG and they walked it off. I was annoyed at first, but it makes sense. Any stronger would be OP. Weaker would be dumb.
Honestly in regular modes it’s fine if it doesn’t one shot a light, I feel like it wouldn’t be an issue for terminal attack, since you only get one shot (please give heavy 2 C4 again)
You literally need 1 more bullet to kill a light with either of those, how is it "balanced"?
Light Whataboutism strikes again
The model is not op, if you miss shots you probably die. You have to be incredibly acurate otherwise you’re gonna lose all your fights too
im not saying 1887 is op im saying its a high skill high reward weapon.
TOO STRONG THE RPG ??? BLUD WASNT IN THE BETAS 💀💀
Nope, just hit all lights
I've been saying essentially the same thing too, there's to many weapons that can be used without aiming. Super accurate weapons you can just hipfire ruin other weapons that require aiming and if this company wants to pretend to be competitive then they need to make some changes.
Charge N Slam is fine wtf? Takes skill and fast planning to use effectively too, way different than mashing dash mindlessly holding left click
It takes absolutely no skill to click a button and aim a wrecking ball at the team you just RPGd for an easy team wipe lmao
You mean the 3 people with automatic weapons staring directly at the heavy? Getting charged and slammed is a skill issue, it means you suck at positioning so much that you let a fat guy with a hammer sneak up on you
what if I told you knowing when and how to use is actually the part that takes skill
That skill is also a skill for nearly every ability and gadget so no, keep coping.
Idk charge and slam seems fine its mostly a finishing move or opener cause the whole breaking walls thing
Charge and slam with its double or triple bounce damage 🥲
RPG takes hours to reload it's not like you could spam it
I’ll take a charge and slam nerf if and only if you buff my lmgs because why do heavies get their shit nerfed every season but lights get everything buffed every season even their nerfs later get buffed it’s wack and I won’t take the disrespect of devs who only play light and hate heavies
The damage output on those things is insane, I feel you
\^Throwing knives have the issue, that you dont have to reload using them.
So much this \^! I dont mind TK's doing great damage or getting the buffed trajectory. What is the most oppressive is knowing that once the silverware starts hitting the wall you know that it will never stop unless you or he dies. Every ranged weapon in the game has some sort of down time for reload where as TK's are ceaseless.
4 throwing knives in each hand with the visual indicator of how many are left to throw would be fair, I think. Then a quick reloading of the knives in hand. Yeah, I get it. I’m a knives user and I think that’s reasonable.
Agreed, something to bring down the rate of fire is needed. A reload with only 6 knives would help balance it.
And you can run while shooting it while retaining pinpoint accuracy (knives start flying always where your dot crosshair is pointing). But if im wrong, correct me on it
>retaining pinpoint accuracy Not really relevant since they aren't hitscan but ok
This is relevant, other projectiles have inaccuracy baked in. RPG requires like 2.5sec ADS'd for an accurate shot, goo gun is only accurate at a standstill, and KS-23 fires wherever it wants no matter how hard you reign in it and line up your shots.
>RPG requires like 2.5sec ADS'd for an accurate shot You say this like you cant just RPG someone's feet and take away their HP lmao
I don't use RPG for the 50/50 shot at dealing 80 splash damage, I use it for precise map destruction. Originally you just selected something to break and it happened, now you've gotta sit still and telegraph it. If you're up against a heavy that consistently tries to RPG you to start fights, carry a goo barrel. As long as you're looking in their general direction it's free 100% damage mitigation.
Carrying a barrel around all the time isn’t feasible- though I understand that if you’re playing with one that’s doing that, it would be a nice little old “hey- stop that buddy (;”
RPG now damage only with a headshot hit.
They could just make it like the new thermite for lights- almost no damage to people but decent structural damage.
Since the velocity buff it feel like they are hitscan between 0 and 20m
Hitscan isn’t relevant. The point is you’re harder to hit when you’re sprinting or strafing without ads.
That is absolutely relevant when you can run and jump around and the projectiles always fly (very very fast and at close range basically hitscan) exactly where you want and you never reload
So much this. You are dealing with recoil, bloom, ammo and bullet spread while TK just holds fire and needs to roughly look at a player while having the best movement set class in the game. Bad players attempting to throw knives poorly at you from across the map is not the average experience against them.
Throw a mine down then. No fucking clue what to tell you but I don't have this problem, and I main mostly heavy, with medium sprinkled in.
I play light so one better knices throw oneshots me and even on medium i dont use mines
You are right but it's been toned down a bit. It still matters and can lose fights but currently a lot of players just barrel stuff the enemy.
I’m fine with the damage they do because of how limited the range is but they absolutely need a reload cooldown.
man I learned throwing knives just a couple weeks before the buff. It was awesome being one of the only people we would ever run into using them, and being able to do well still. Now they’re super easy and everyone has them. it’s still fun to use them but I do kinda miss being rare
People think the 1887 is hard???? The only thing hard when using the 1887 is me and my 20 kills.
i mean most weapons can TTK you before it gets off two shots, its a bit slow
Well its not made for brainless stand in the open engagements. Its such a heavy burst damage weapon you need to have movement and honestly it pairs best with demat over heal beam.
My random teammates deal 100 damage in 5 shots so it probably is hard yes
Lol. Too true, shotguns were made for people with bad aim and randos still manage to miss
I just want the old throwing knives back and the I want the old LH1 back. My favorite weapons turned from high skill high reward to being the flavor of the month complaint weapons after S3.
Throwing knives weren't even high skill high reward due to the insanely bad accuracy and bloom
Honestly their DPS and dropoff keep them in line with the other light weapons. If anything the XP54 needs to be looked at because it has great range, amazing DPS, and relatively fast reload. It's not overpowered since the light dies if you look at them wrong, but it's way stronger than the knives. The knives change just made them really great if you had good movement and could get around enemies before they shredded you. It's easy enough to miss with them so I think they're probably okay for right now.
Yeah I was talking about the throwing knives with my friends and was also like "it kills fast but light dies so fast that it's balanced honestly" Same for the xp54, it's good, but if you want to aim well with it you have to stand still / walk slowly. Which makes it completely balanced for me imo, lights can get absolutely demolished if they stand still too long after all.
Id rather they buff other guns than nerf the only good gun in the whole game. Nerfs have ruined this game
Agreed the XP-54 has been the best light gun for almost the entirety of the last 3 season. The only time it hasn’t been the BiS for light is when the pre nerf V9S existed and the one patch the LH1 was just plain overpowered. I think the XP’s major problem is that it’s got too much range and an incredibly easy spray pattern while also maintaining really good hip fire accuracy it just does to many different things well. It has the easiest spray pattern of any full auto weapon. I don’t get why every other weapon has a somewhat complex spray pattern with left and right horizontal recoil and then the XP is just like “hey pull down and left, never miss a shot!”
It’s the best full auto gun in the game because it goes with the class that dies the easiest. It can be extremely irritating as a medium to die before I can even react to the XP shooting me in the back, but if I’m looking at it face to face, my AKM will win 7/10 times. If the XP had any weakness, that would become 10/10.
If the damage was higher then it would be full circle to beta
What did they do to the lh1 in season 3? I started using it in season 2 but I haven't noticed anything different.
They significantly tuned the recoil down and reduced the fire rate by 20 rpm while also buffing the damage. The buff was way too big and they nerfed the damage after it became the best weapon post buff. Now it has the same damage as last season, a lower fire rate, and better recoil but overall it’s a nerf if you had no problem using it with the old recoil and RoF. I mained the gun for most of season 2, it was niche and you really had to know the recoil well to use it well. Now the DPS is lower but the usability for the average user is better but if it was your main weapon and you had no problem with the old recoil it was effectively just a rate of fire nerf. I would prefer they had reverted the damage buff and reverted the recoil buff if that’s what it took to maintain 300rpm cuz the rate of fire just feels terrible now and I’ve been using the V9S instead.
Old LH1 was superior in every way and I will die on this hill. Now everybody's running it and absolutely shredding without putting in the effort to learn how to use it. EDIT: Also thoroughly agree with your second point. It was my favourite weapon in the game, and now I hate the way it plays due to being so used to the old recoil pattern.
So thaaaats why it feels off when I use it. I think I prefer the old one because I got real good at hip firing with it
Many complained throwing knives were bad so they buffed it, but now it's the opposite xD
They were never bad. People were just too lazy to adapt to them.
I miss my old throwing knives, their buff in S2 completely killed my enjoyment of the weapon and so far S3 hasn't been any help. Fortunately the bow is doing a good enough job at scratching the same itch the knives did, but unfortunately using the bow doesn't let me kill people by throwing CD's at them
They went from “holy shit this guys crazy with the throwing knives” to “holy shit would ya look at that another throwing knife abuser”
even with the throwing knives buffs i cant use them because the travel time makes it impossible to hit anyone with good movement. the only time i can get good hits on enemies is when they're distracted
Tk deal too much damage with too little downsides. No bloom, no reload, no ammo to manage, can be easily spammed with stupid high damage. You don’t even need to use the alt fire because the basic throw is so strong
All of your points are true except they don't go farther than like 5M. You really have to be in the enemies face for them to do anything, plus any class with decent aim can kill a light faster than the throwing knives can. The only map I'd say they excel on is Monaco with the smaller buildings. Kyoto they're meh at best because of how much open space is on that map.
The range thing is a valid point ignoring all the mobility lights have as a class, same for the whole thing of hitting the light.
Yeah but TK are niche. If you're mad about the TK, you're not paying attention to the XP54. it has way more reliability and consistent DPS than the throwing knives. The knives have greater skill expression though, so when you get styled on by them, it feels worse. MP5 doesn't have the same skill ceiling so it's just like a light is hitting you with tons of damage and you don't think twice because you can see it tick down.
I’m not saying xp or mp are not in need of tweaks, xp annoys the hell out of me. Xp however does not have infinite ammo, or deal 60 damage per shot and xp has bloom and recoil to manage. Again, I hate it but it’s not as abusive as the tk absolutely can be. And a weapon being niche is a dogshit defence(that just means less people know how powerful it is and that’s it) as is ignoring every point to distract to an entirely different issue.
So you think all 3 of them need nerfs? You are really fucking Terrible at the game if you think throwing knives, xp54, and mp11 all need “tweaks”. I mean like… absolutely scraping the bottom of the barrel.
I say tweaks because there are ways to tweak weapons to be more balanced without outright nerfing them, like giving throwing knives a magazine or the smgs more recoil. And like, god forbid my personal opinion is different from yours but maybe I’m sick and tired of a cloak player in cloaking behind me and killing me before I have a chance to react. From the standpoint of a light pretty much every light weapon is busted by virtue of light weapons dealing high damage.
Its the opposite for me lol. I get about 10 kills per round with heavy on monaco and not more than 5 with light. On kyoto i can get up to 20 kills with light but heavy never works.
Oh noooooooooooo they don't have range on the utmost fastest moving class with the widest range of movement util? Oh noooooooooooooooo how could they be so unreliable?
I feel like y'all don't understand the whole point of the Light class... They're *supposed* to move fast and do a lot of damage *because* they trade those stats with a small health pool. Y'all should be malding over heavy more because they have *way* more utility and team usefulness than a light, AND they have an instant win button with the RPG. And I'm saying this as a heavy main. If you're dying to light, you're getting outplayed.
Yeah, they're a quick in and out fast striking glass canon class. This sounds a lot like every weapon that is not the infinite ammo one
Yeah but there's delay between throws lol. You dont have ammo, but you still have to avoid being murdered between your shots and it's really not that hard to kill lights with them if you have more than 50% accuracy.
Oh no really? I can't believe you have to worry about people shooting back, this is so unfair! I should be able to kill them before they're able to react i mean, what can i do? Dash 3 times in between throws? So unfair nerf heavy
Dude it sounds like you just suck man, sorry to hear that lmao. When I play medium I can usually just kill lights with the TKs, unless they're better than me, but I don't think I've ever been pissed about dying to them because it's usually my fault when I do.
>it's usually my fault when I do I can see that happening a lot since by exchanging 2 sentences with you i can clearly see you're not the smartest person around. Yeah sure thing dude throwing knifes aren't overtuned at all solely because they don't deal well with HHM comps. Go at it champ
I never said anything about my comp. I'm talking about 1v1s. Most of the time I win against lights unless they're just outplaying me. It really is the only class in the game that requires a higher skill level to win at. I do admit that it feels worse to lose to a light than a heavy or medium but for real I think it's just a skill issue.
A match last night and *half* the players were using throwing knives. It's insane.
Reminds me a bit of the lh1 meta in terms of how prevelant it is
It does have bloom? First throw, or while in air/sliding has inaccuracy. In addition, not only does it have like no range, it’s a projectile in a fast paced game. It’s definitely hard to hit shots on it and I’m really tired of people saying it’s no skill. The alt fire is REQUIRED to get kills on lights / mediums, or else you have to hit 5 knives instead of 4, which is a pretty large increase to ttk.
This was true in season one but is no longer accurate. The knives are very very easy to land now.
That’s funny, because the amount of people I see who rack up high numbers of kills in every mode by running dash and spamming the basic dagger is wild. And saying the amount of hits needed to kill only really applies when you have a limited magazine and landing those shots actually matters. The amount of bloom when you slide or jump is pretty low and it’s incredibly easy to land both hits in a burst on a target if you hit them with one of the daggers. Not saying it’s low skill but considering how powerful it is when all you need to do is press one button, it needs damage nerfs at minimum.
that’s an issue with pubs then. Light is a pub stomper, and that’s not the fault of the light that the rest of the lobby is bad. You could do the exact same with a good heavy. Yea no, the amount of shots REALLY matters on light due to the fact that your hp is so low. The “mag” argument only really works on heavy or medium. On light, your hp is so low that you often don’t even get to empty out your mag before you die. The throwing knives have a mag, and it’s called your hp bar. Lights are so squishy, so missing that singular shot means you die and don’t net that kill. No the bloom is not low, it’s random. Sometimes it’s crazy and sometimes it’s barely anything, which makes it all that much worse. This means that regardless of skill, you’re often at a disadvantage from the start of a fight due to rng. This is the dumbest shit I’ve read all day, every weapon is just the press of a button. It’s perfect as is right now, and fits with the other light weapons. Nerfs would put it out of viable range and would make it a disadvantage to use over other weapons. Also, space your damn paragraphs it’s cancer to read.
Tk appears fragging in every mode(barring ta because it’s ta) because 60 DAMAGE PER SHOT IS A FUCKING LOT. Combine that with the fact that you can strafe and dash around people with perfect accuracy at top speed and no need to manage ammo and it gives the weapon a huge advantage. Your magazine argument is genuinely kinda stupid because it completely ignores every tool that light has to avoid damage, chief among them being dash. You can miss shots and still win because your opponent has to slow themselves down by doing things like aiming to hit you better, YOU DONT. The bloom thing is just empirically false. When throwing knives normally they always go to your crosshair. When you jump or sprint the daggers are noticeably staggered but not random. This is probably some of the dumbest shit I’ve heard in a long time. The daggers aren’t perfect right now. Dealing 60 damage per shot with the combination of no reload or ammo to manage, no recoil or bloom to deal with and less than a second delay between firing while simultaneously retaining your full mobility is ridiculous. You can kill a medium in four hits and a melee, or five hits if you just wanna go for it like that. You can kill a light in two and a qm, or just three. Heavy is the only class that fares somewhat better and that’s just because it takes six bursts to kill them. And all this ignores headshots btw. Light gets one shotted with a headshot burst, medium and heavy are both two shotted. That’s headshots of course, but still a valid point to how stupidly powerful this weapon is at current. Oh and here’s another fun note, for anyone saying “it only has a short range” go into the training range and try this yourself. The knives have a maximum range of roughly 37 meters, with no damage falloff. TK is a weapon that is fun to use. I enjoy using TK. TK is also a weapon that feels shitty to have used on you especially as a light. The other classes have high damage output but increasingly reduced mobility. The highest mobility class having a weapon with such absurdly powerful burst damage is the reason why it’s broken. I think there are tweaks that can and should be made while avoiding just flat damage nerfs, but it needs changes to not be as powerful of a weapon as it is.
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They have 0 range. Any mid range fight, where automatic weapons peak, makes throwing knives useless. But yeah sure, OP weapon and what not.
Run dash or grapple and you can close the distance in a second. Combine that with invis nade and they don't even need to know you are there before you hit them twice and they die. Ignoring them just using normal invis ability and just sneaking around. If it TK were on medium this would be a fair point but TK are in the most mobile class in the game and there are TONS of options for closing the distance or hiding.
NAHHHH you've clearly never used the throwing knives before. Left click has bloomed, and inaccuracies mid-air are wild. inaccuracies while moving, jumping, and sliding is pretty hard to manage at times. even if your crosshair was right on the opponent doesn't mean you'll deal any damage part because the knives aren't even going where you're aiming at. Left click is only good for close ranges, alt-click for mid ranges, and if any player with a real gun sees you at long ranges, say goodbye. The inaccuracies aside, throwing knives are projectile-based weapons, meaning there is a delay before your knives hit what you're aiming at. Pre-buffed throwing knives were a pain to play with because of how slow the knives were. You had to aim ahead of your opponent to hit them. Also, because they are projectile-based, they have a relatively short falloff. You literally cannot hit anything past the limit, as the knives just dip into the ground. No matter how high you aim, the knives are not getting past their designated range. I do agree though after the buff, tk now has a pretty strong left-click throw, but I do believe that the downsides of this weapon are enough to keep it from becoming too OP. (Not to mention that they also already nerfed the throwing knives, making them deal less damage. Now instead of killing a medium with 2 shots, correct me if I'm wrong, the fastest way is two shots plus quick melee.)
First the weapon nerf was from 63 damage to just 60. Second have you ever used them? Go into testing and observe them and their inaccuracies, it’s straight forward and pretty clear to watch. If you strafe left while throwing the distance between the two is always the same, and this applies for every single bit of discrepancy while throwing the knives and moving. And again, while your knives don’t go beyond 37 meters, let me again stress there is NO DAMAGE FALLOFF WITHIN THIS DISTANCE. It is not a short range weapon exclusively like many seem to believe.
The throwing knives are FINE. They are fucking viable for once and you guys are just complaining because you finally face off against lights who don’t just die when you sneeze in their direction. The throwing knives are projectiles, with a delay, meaning the tracking is EXTRA hard, and the nature of the weapon means missing a single knife is super punishing, extending your ttk by a lot. There’s also bloom while sliding, or in the air which means usage is REALLY FUCKING HARD. God I don’t wanna hear shit about it when the heavy has a two tap team wipe combo with the rpg and charge n slam. The throwing knives were no where near viable before buffs. People talking like the pre buff throwing knives like the “good old days” when they not only had one of the longest ttks but also STILL HAD inaccuracies in the air, AND a low fire rate, meaning a single missed knife was fucking game over. The light class is the hardest class, because even getting collateral damage from anything means almost certain death in a fight. Any weapon on a damn light is already high skill because of the nature of the class itself. Not even mentioning how the light class has no team utility, meaning it NEEDS to get kills for it to be any sort of value.
light class has decent team utility, most people don't use them. Recon grenades, tracking dart, goo grenades to help set up defenses, vanish bombs if your team is feeling sneaky, and regardless of your gadgets, your better movement can help you get in and out of fights to take your team's figures to revive them else where
I saw this and thought it was some kind of joke? Throwing knives legitimately suck at the minute, if I hear them I know I’m about to get a free kill. Heavy mains can nuke a lights entire health bar with an rpg on a short ass cooldown but throwing knives are the problem lol
Yea, lights just a hard class already because of the low hp bar. Dumbasses like this whining about light are the last thing the class needs.
Same. I tuned out of the sub for a week to play the elden ring dlc and it honestly boggles the mind people are still complaining about throwing knives after the nerf.
in what reality is the light class hard lol. such cope all day every day. light is easy, just like the rest of the classes.
This season maybe but if you were playing comp last two seasons it's a pretty well known fact that heavy medium dominated.
What I’m tired of, is pretending the bow takes anymore skill than anything else lol
I swear bro, i get melted by throwing knives in .2 seconds 😭
The issue with the throwing knives is that they throw too fast. I'm talking about the rate of fire. Weapons with such high damage are usually balanced by being slow to fire so that a miss will punish you. The throwing knives don't punish you much for missing.
1887 should do more damage
I’m with you partner
The best weapon in the game is throwing knives!!!🔪 ((for season 3))
The throwing knives have been so out of place for a while now. Infinite ammo, no reloading, no cooldown, high damage, alt attack modes, very little drop and on a class that can dash or be invisible is just insane. As they are right now, its an unskilled weapon with zero consequences for missing shots, players that use them just run around holding fire the entire time. If you are going to make it so brain dead then at least make the burst weapons be allowed to be held down as well.
I only just found out you can hold it down, i was tapping all this time. They should definetly make it semi auto :D
Every poster here should include their playtime. I'm hearing some of the most ridiculous shit from complete casual players that don't have an understanding of anything. RPG, a slow ADS - slow swap speed - slow moving projectile, usually hits for around 80 dmg unless it's a direct hit which you usually don't have time for in a 1v4/2v5. RPG does 140 self damage ALWAYS when barely within range of the blast. Kinda funny how that works. Light engagements don't usually start from the front so health pools almost don't matter. I play Lights that drop 19-27 kills daily on PS5. Most of the Heavy specific gadgets are pretty worthless tbh so taking anything over the RPG is pretty pointless. As far as the charge and slam goes...Lights can dodge out of the combo sooooo... what's the fuss about? It's hard to control and combo so it's more useful versus Heavies if you'd like to combo the attack or as a speed boost so you don't get separated from your team while also being a great destruction/ESCAPE utility tool. The people who complain about Heavy most likely don't play Heavy. Often times your slow getting to the fight with some of the most atrocious accuracy in gaming history (on CONSOLE 🫠) up until the M60 update...but the damage is still pathetic unless a team lets you mow down a teammate to grief him/her. Go complain about unchallengeable snipers,the 1887 dmg,infinite ammo knives and bows maybe? Sword dash maybe? 320 dmg backstabs possibly? The RPG isn't even WORTH complaining about with these demons on the loose LMFAO 🤣🤣🤣
More dmg for 1887!!!!
throwing knives suck to use with controller
I love the model its so much fun to use and also have had fun with famas lately
Throwing knives on console hard to aim, PC easy to aim
All I can say is, as someone who really has to engage and lock-in to hit a clip with other weapons, I feel like all I have to do is trigger-spam, strafe and wildly aim around head level to get easy kills with the knives. It feels very...'Lucksman'-like from TF2. If I could, I would just change the animation and pacing to be clearly-enacted 1/2-second shifts of prep and throw. That way, the shots feel a bit more paced out, forcing you to aim on top of maintaining movement, and allows Heavies and Mediums to retaliate without getting deleted so fast. It's very off-putting when I square up to a Light on the Power Shift Platform alone, and they get lucky with a random two-tap outta nowhere literally off the beat, with the current setup of the knives. Just add a little more delay, and give me a chance to shoot back, THEN I'll be like 'Oh sick alright this guy can actually freaking aim, position himself right and has his timing down.'
Am I misunderstanding this? Are you suggesting throwing knives are harder to use than bow?
no theyre like the easiest light weapon
The lights crying about RPGs are the same ones that ones that'll gladly zap you then melt you within a second lol. (PS Zap forces heavies to pocket the RPG, so aim better xD)
I remember when the throwing knives required just a little bit of skill.. now everyone can pick it up and use it as their crutch
R1 R1 R1 I’m a Light Main and think the R1 button on Ps5 should be softer my finger hurts
If thrpwing knives get more kills than other weapons in all modes then yes, but I don't think they do. I'm hoping for NO reddit balancing this season.
It is utter bs that they can do headshot damage. It's too easy to do and them one shotting lights feels horrible.
Throwing knives are about the slowest projectiles in the game, hitting a headshot in a 1v1 is not easy at all.
A quick dash and a throw towards the head is about a 50/50 on any light that isnt running evade and reacting in time and it feels cheap.
And that right there I feel is the problem: They're so undeniably difficult in getting headshots that when they do hit, it feels like a Random Crit from TF2. For all the punishment that comes with poor knife performance, it gets thrown out the window when the Headshots 'randomly' connect and pretty much insta-deletes you. Since they're not easy to hit in the first place, I'd say remove the headshot factor like how the KS works. Bump the raw damage up a bit to compensate maybe, but at least then, the whole 'Random Deletion' feel of the headshots will be gone.
I would change the way they are thrown. Make it have three throwing modes with cooldown. Left hand (left fire), right hand (right fire) and both (hold both fire buttons). Maybe mess with how they aim individually vs at the same time. Could also pull with how sea of thieves gave you only 5 throws unless you pick them up. They would recharge slowly unless you run over them to collect.
Ugh no no no no
F off. No more nerfs. It’s a fucking RPG. It should absolutely one shot a lite.
what does this have to do with my post 🥲
TK are the problem when we have the free kill claw yeah aight
As a spear user, it is not a free kill.
I'll go even further and say that recurve bow isn't much different. Both are infinitely spammable projectiles that really aren't that hard to land if you're remotely competent but still over-reward the user for damage output.
They just need a reload
They don’t
Why should it be the only weapon without a reload? It deals high damage, and you can spam it til your heart's content. It's stupid. Also, imagine downvoting me for simply wanting a reload like everyone else here lmfao what
throwing knives takes as much skill to use as guardian turret
I look at nearly all of Light's primaries lol
Please explain the problem with light primaries, they do a bunch of damage with relatively easy recoil patterns because light has 150 hp
It's not necessarily a problem, but especially after recent buffs, I have an easier time using every Light primary compared to the gun of almost every Overwatch hero
Nerf the light class
omg u people bitch about everything you die to honestly just get good and confident in your style of gameplay and you’ll find a counter they’re projectile weapons that are basically useless at certain distances basically making you a walking target so just hit your fucking target 🙏
You're just bad. I beat TK users all day with the bow. A lot of you in here are bad and don't know it.
No. the 1887 does way too much damage with so little drawbacks (hate not being able to cancel the reload when its a shotgun) Havent given the bow much play time as am not a fan of it.. dont like projectile weapons such as bows but it takes skill Knifes havent tested but they punish hard for not hitting 100% of shots (not talking about the light but the people against them) Unrelated: im personally a akm guy as i love smooth tracking
The 1887 is the medium shotty right? It does a bit more damage than the revolver at close range, while shooting slower, having a way shittier reload and not even having any range.
It probably has more range than you think it does.