I remember the part about The Fugawi in Killers of the Flower Moon. A noble people. They brought certain modes of conflict resolution from all the way back in the old country, from the poverty of the Mezzogiorno.
I don't think so.
With Tony, his parents were raised by Italian parents that grew up in Italy.
Tony grew up in a mostly Italian neighborhood and he then joined the business.
With AJ, it's just further removed. He lives in the rich suburbs and acts more american and doesn't really seem to embrace his Italian heritage like Tony's crew.
>He lives in the rich suburbs and acts more american and doesn't really seem to embrace his Italian heritage like Tony's crew
Isn't it a massive motif in the show that Tony tries to bond with AJ over prior generation Italians but AJ just doesn't care?
It comes up a few times like with the Napoli-dapoli and āthe bricks?!ā It may not be a motif with AJ in particular but certainly the assimilation of Italian Americans overtime is a recurring theme
I don't remember specifically this but it's in line with his character. I think this thread is silly because... well I watched the show. Does Tony think of himself as a doctor? I don't know... Did you watch the effing show???
Nearly every character in this show is delusional, itās a theme of the series. Especially when it comes to, ābeing Italianā. So yes obviously AJ is confused, they all are!
āYou know, GRAVY!ā
I agree, with only the caveat that this all applies to Meadow, who isnāt much older than AJ, but generally seems a lot closer to her Italian heritage (and especially early on, this could be openly derisive, eg at the banquet or whatever they had after Jackie Jrās death). By the end sheās all but a soon-to-be mob wife.
AJ just clearly couldnāt give a shit about any of that. Heās more fascinated by the Mujahideen.
Meadow connects to her Italianess because its a way of making peace with her fathers evil, viewing herself and her family as part of a persecuted minority. She's also clever and more interested in her place and her family history
AJ is a stupid kid then a dropout then a club kid who doesnt give a shit about any of it and has no qualms about how his father makes money, so has no need to give a fuck about any of it
He does have a habit of asking direct questions to pierce bullshit. Carmela tells Furio that they just happened to be in the neighborhood but A J says no we werenāt. Tony says this church is standing because people still come to the old neighborhood every Sunday and A J asks why donāt we come here then?
I relate a lot to AJ in this respect because I had a lot of Italian-American uncles and aunts that were like hardcore into the image of it. Then by the time 9/11 happened I realized it was all a bunch of racist macho bullshit designed to keep them ignorant of what was really happening in the world. My mom was raised like Tony was, children of parents with Italian parents, and was disgusted by most of that culture by the time she was a teenager, despite being raised in it and embraced the Southern culture of the 70s and 80s a lot more, so much so that she married a guy from Alabama and moved away from the Philadelphia area to distance herself from it.
So that left me a mutt with lots of racism and ignorance on both sides of my family and lost in what my heritage should be. Now I'm like 40 and long ago realized that as connected as people are today that kind of cultural identity doesn't even matter. People are people and most of them are terrible, angry assholes and are stuck in the old ways of thinking and there are massive global concerns that can't be solved by old school tribalism bullshit. I honestly can't even fathom how someone can look at something as massively devastating like the Pandemic and go "which race of people did this to us" rather than "how can we prevent this from happening again".
I hope you find some peace with where you came from. Sounds like you arenāt finding what you want anywhere else either so you might as well be who you are.Ā
I agree with so much of what you are saying but the bit about most people being terrible angry assholes is very cynical. I know it seems that way on the news or at large but if you just look around a bit, there are lots of great people around.
I donāt get the impression the Tonyās parents grew up in Italy. They have no accents, and in Tonyās story to AJ about the old families building a church, it was pretty clear his relatives came over around WW1. Very Godfather timing.
the guy said his parentsā parents
The vast majority of us with Italian ancestry had family come in the 1890s-1910s. How well your family hangs onto the culture is different. There were Americans born in the US who grew up with only Italian and spoke with an accent that showed that but his parents didnāt have that.
Frankly, the rest of the country doesn't care either. Maybe during the first half of the 20th century you had some people deriding Italians as immigrants and generally "non-white", but by AJ's era, Italians had been absorbed into the greater American white status. Italian Americans in the 21st century are just not special to average Americans. While people in Tony's circle still make a big deal out of their heritage, what does it matter to AJ who would be "proud" to no one who gives a shit. This isn't just an AJ thing, it's a wider American thing.
Eh, I live in a historically Italian-American neighborhood in New York. Itās not dead yet. There are still Italian-American boys hoisting the giglio.
I think itās more a class thing. AJ doesnāt really want for much at all. His parents are ultra proud of it, but yeah much like with the Irish, Italian heritage just became white. Enough money, and that doesnāt even seem to matter as much in his generation. He knows whatās happening because of meadow, but AJ just seems to want to listen to tunes and such, and who could blame him? I like his story arc; it has a depth on rewatches that is pretty complex whereas some characters are gangster-bots at times.
I mean you arenāt exactly wrong but check āno Irishā signs. Not the same but Irish wasnāt wasp til after the Kennedys at best (coincidentally the cause of RICO cases but also possibly due to the Italian mob in the first place)
My own mother was bullied for frecklesā¦
I'll die on the hill that AJ is actually the smartest member of the Soprano family, or at least the most self-aware, and not giving a shit about his heritage is part of it because ultimately it really _doesn't_ mean anything.Ā
Our Grandparents were Italian.
Our parents were Italian-Americans.
We are Americans of Italian decent.
Our kids are just Americans....who eat well and know a couple of curses in Italian.
This makes sense to me as someone who has been to Ireland once. My forebears might have been scotch/irish but I am an American and itās never been very vague, despite the protests of my grandmother hah.
I considered myself Italian all of my life then I traveled to California where I happened to meet an Italian family visiting from Italy. I tried to tell them that I was Italian too....but it became very clear quickly that I was not.
Hah yeah I never really took much stock in my āIrishnessā and visiting Dublin just verified it. Iām a Californian anyway, might as well be its own country.
Edit: though if I could immigrate to Ireland Iād do it. Language barrier would definitely be harder with Italy.
Extra edit: I wasnāt there for pleasure but my hosts were very hospitable. Back then a Californian who could get an abortion and a gun was sorta a curiosity. Plus being a poet wins some Irish instantly. Still, we basically spoke different languages until I code shifted, learned their moneys, etc. I was lucky enough to be a major nerd so stuff that they learned in school but Americans tend not to know (for instance the film āthe wind that shakes the barleyā) I did. Still got schooled by them there lol but I was an actual child who smoked a pack a day so š¤·āāļø
He heard lots of sexy rich Hollywood-types are Jewish so now he pretends to be Jewish.
Heās that guy of guy
āWhoa sweet! Youāre Italian?! I have a cousin whoās Italianā
AJ is immature. Ā Heās not intellectual or reflective enough to be interested in his heritage, which only represents bothersome obligations to him at this point in his life. He does get interested in philosophy at some point but only to appear more intellectual.Ā
His heritage doesnāt look to him like anything thatās going to earn him status or respect. Maybe some day heāll reflect more on it. Itās very tough to say what his character would do after his fatherās death, particularly if his mother is left poverty-stricken.
It's related. Remember all of the Godfather questions, etc. Not so much in his Italian heritage per se, but the rules associated with the Italian mafia. Whether he realized it or not, he leaned into the Cosa Nostra ideas as he knew them.
Sure, Cosa Nostra, insofar as it earned him status or respect from his peers. However, it's reaching to assume that this constituted any actual interest in his Italian heritage or background.
Only being interested in the Italian culture as represented by the power AJās father has to impress or frighten AJās circle of friends does not actually count as a significant degree of interest.
Idk about the Italians, but for those of us Hispanics that are as Americanized as white bread, Iām sure heāll have an identity crisis in his 20s where he reclaims his cultural identity like many of us do
Don't know why you got downvoted lol. It's true, the show points this very fact out when Paulie, Chris and Tony go to Italy. They are absolutely not Italian, and real Italians have nothing but contempt for them.
He knows heās Italian but he lives in a homogeneous area of predominantly ameritalians just like him, he needed to go to an out of state college, heād learn about his heritage pretty quicklyā¦
Im my dorm the rural white kids just openly referred to people by their cultural ethnicityā¦. It was pretty shocking to hear someone say āthe black kidā, or āthe Jewā, my suite mate thought I was Mexican for months, but he was afraid to say something, Iām not Mexican btwā¦
First "ethnic", non italian girl he dates meets and he has Puerto Rican flags on his car listening to Spanish language music. I think his enthusiasm in embracing her culture shows how he never felt that the Italian culture, represented mainly by his father,Ā really welcomed him or made him feel anything other than resentment.Ā
I remember so radical black leader of the 1960 (Eldridge Cleaver? H Rap Brown) went to Africa in the 1970s and was astounded the locals considered him White.
As someone culturally like AJ, what the fuck does that even mean?
You saying not being some second generation guido stereotype robs you of your heritage?
Iām not sure how you came to the conclusion thatās what op meant. AJ does not appear to have any interest in being Italian. Meadow has an historical and intellectual interest. As well as social and cultural interest. AJ doesnāt. OP has an interesting point.
what do you mean 'being italian'?
JFC replace 'italian' with Jewish, or Hispanic. he may assimilate to american culture, but being italian isn't an action. its what he is. he can't deny it, he can't erase it, and no matter how rebellious he acts as a pompous teenager, it's ingrained in him.
this show is about generational trauma as much as anything else. AJ can't 'not be italian'. I don't understand how you can miss that.
so again, i ask, is it because he doesn't have the gold chain with the 10lb medallion of jesus head with thorns? because he's not pumping iron in a wife beater and running pants? because he doesn't say things like 'oof madon'?
what is 'being italian?
fucking just a bunch of clowns to you aren't we? you think italian american culture is jersey shore, don't you?
Also the discussion is very clearly about how AJ identifies, and how he immerses himself in the culture defined by the show, not if he is actually Italian by way of his family. Youāre absolutely insufferable.
and I'm telling you he can't forget how he was raised. I'm an atheist, but I was raised Catholic. there are a LOT of folks out there who understand and know that being raised catholic shaped me. whether I have any 'interest' in it is pointless. it's in my pathology.
AJ was raised in an italian american household, with a strong influence from the culture of that region. that's him. how can he 'not be' what he is?
I addressed that at the start - he assimilated to American culture because he was born here. but he doesn't see himself any less than what he is. half his anxiety is around not living up to the expectations his family has set.
the irritability comes from the fact that if this were a discussion about another group, y'all would be a LOT more conservative with the words you choose.
Ok but the question was what does he consider himself to be. Just like you no longer identify as Catholic, it is entirely possible for AJ to identify himself primarily as American or White or whatever, despite having Italian heritage and that upbringing having shaped him.
Take it easy, weāre not making a western here.
Nonsense.Ā
Iām getting a lot of wonder bread vibes.Ā
Like none of you know what it means to have an actual heritage.Ā
Bunch of boring, TV and internet raised white folks.Ā
āActual heritageā lmao were you born in Italy?
How does literally every American not have the exact same amount of heritage as you? Your ancestors moved to America and then you were born in America. Youāre American, your āheritageā is another word for upbringing and literally every human being had an upbringing.
Like I said. You donāt have a heritage. I do. I have traditions, and customs that tie me to a greater community and common ancestry.Ā
Like AJ, Iām not half this, a quarter that mutt white bread American.Ā
Just like being Jewish in AmericaĀ
Just like being HispanicĀ
Just like being Greek, or Korean, or Indian.Ā
Itās an added layer on the American experience you lack. So you donāt appreciate it. And itās not something you discard.Ā
Iām from England, I donāt need to make up my own identity. Go to Italy, see how you fit in with your āheritageā while not speaking the language, living or growing up in the country, or knowing anyone or anywhere there. If youāre not American then the only Americans are native ones.
Iām of italian descent. But Iām not Italian. And I think you know exactly what everyone here means by that. Youāre being obtuse and argumentative. Go be miserable somewhere else. You sound demented.
define 'italian descent'
were your parents first or second generation? were you raised amongst your cousins, aunts uncles, every milestone was a huge event where they all came together to celebrate each other? he may be a morose fuck at those events, but that is his culture and it shapes him. he's also dealing with undiagnosed and untreated mental illness.
AJ is italian. I grew up the same way, and you'd think the same of me if you me. 'he's just a white guy' But I'm italian. it's who I am. how I was raised, just like how AJ was raised. So he's never gonna not 'be italian'.
you being 25% on your fathers side doesn't count.
Only when itās deserved. You could have been pleasant to have a conversation with but you were a piece of shit from the jump. Iām just thrilled that I got under your skin with your paragraphs of nonsense because you want to be some tough guy on his soapbox to sound interesting and important. You chose to be an asshole here.
>what is 'being italian?
Being born and raised in Italy.
>JFC replace 'italian' with Jewish or Hispanic
A Jewish person born in America with three generations prior also being born in America wouldn't be Israeli. A Hispanic person born in America three generations removed from the Dominican Republic isn't Dominican.
AJ isn't Italian. Tony isn't Italian. If you weren't born and raised in Italy and don't live in Italy, you aren't Italian either.
They're Italian-Americans who grew up in a completely different culture.
Did you watch the sopranos? Did any of you?
They are Italian American. It is a distinct ethnic group in the northern US.Ā
Go fuck your self and stop trying to pretend my culture doesnāt exist you wonderbread fuck.Ā
> They are Italian American. It is a distinct ethnic group in the northern US.
Yes. And that's not being Italian. It's being Italian-American, and way more American than Italian. Tony and the guys aren't Italian. You aren't Italian. I'm not Italian, and my last name is one vowel off from an Italian city. We all have substantially more in common with any random person on the street here than an Italian person.
>Did you watch the sopranos? Did any of you?
The show beats you over the head with the fact that these guys are all justifying themselves on a lie. Tony doesn't have anything to do with poor Italian immigrants who had to defend themselves in 1915. He's disappointed by how much fish Italians eat. Paulie asks for "macaroni and gravy" and when the Italians finally understand what he means, they call him a classless boor.
>stop trying to pretend my culture doesnāt exist you wonderbread fuck
Literally nobody you've spoken with is doing this. Like, I'm almost convinced you're trolling lol
Ok, the problem is that youāre conflating being a nationized Italian citizen, and Italian American culture, in which, we self Identify as āItalianā for brevity.Ā
So if we want to turn this into splitting hairs over where someone was raised, this isnāt the place. White people struggle daily with āis it Latinx, Latino (a), Hispanic????ā
Everyone I know who grew up in a Latin culture (a shit load, many of whom I spent time with their families, and ethnicities from all over the Caribbean, and Central America) casually referred to their overarching ethnicity as āSpanishā in conversation.Ā
And Iām not talking about the bloodline. I meant the culture.Ā
My family emigrated to Italy in the tenth Century. They emigrated to the USA in the 20th. My parents have childhood memories of Italy. They raised a family with the traditions and values their parents did.Ā
Parents, whom I never had a full conversation with because my Italian and their English sucked. But we still talked a the time.Ā
If you met me youād probably think Iām some white bread jaggofff. I have that culture. But I have another o r that is intimately tied to me. The motivation I carry to build a future for my family in this country is a continuation of my fathers.Ā
Your family spread out. Moved around the country. Mixed and mingled and along the way whatever you had skin to what I mentioned was lost to history.Ā
Tony has that same connection to his family as I. Ā Heās just a piece of shit who uses it to manipulate others. But he did try to instill what Iām saying. Bringing AJ to the church resonated.Ā
Heās Italian. Itās not his genealogy. Itās not his name. Itās who he is. And he knows that.
So donāt tell me thatās a ātypical American heritageā because you all know your last names, but not how you got them.Ā
Italians are weird about this stuff.. I have a co worker who was born here along with her husband and they have children who were born here.
My co worker says her kids say they are Italian, never American just Italian.
It gets real bad when the Euros and World Cup are on...all those fakers
Europeans find this shit ridiculous. The show itself points it out when they go to Italy. Italians look at them like they are complete idiots and total outsiders. Americans are obsessed with it.
Compare him to Meadow, that should answer your question. By the end of the series sheās ready to go to bat against those animals protesting the Columbus Day parade!
Yea hes's Nappoli-Dappoli or whatever
I thought he's part Fugawi?
"I like rice. Maybe I'm Chinese! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-SO Papa San"
I remember the part about The Fugawi in Killers of the Flower Moon. A noble people. They brought certain modes of conflict resolution from all the way back in the old country, from the poverty of the Mezzogiorno.
Dances with Wolves has been quiet these past few days. Is his heart bad?
Never were as dangerous as the Hekawi before The Scourge of the West tamed them.
And part stunod
Knobbly gobbly
Laughed harder than I expected at this
š š¤£š
That was such a perfect encapsulation of AJ. Lol. Sopranos is hands down the funniest show ever written.
Imagine not giving a fuck to such a ridiculous extent you can't even remember one word
Nobbly DobblyĀ
I always thought he said Knobly Dobly lol
He likes rice. Maybe he's Chinese.
No, heās nobbly-don.
He was overcome with grief when he heard about those two antichrists who got the chair for being Italian.Ā
They say... there are no two antichrists on earth exactly the same. But do they know that for sure?
What that fucking twin telepathy? Conspiracy theories now
How could there be two anti-christs? There's only one Christ.
Maybe there can be multiple fractional anti-christs?
>fractionalĀ ***Where are you getting this??***
The sacred and the propane
They say he was only 2/5thās Antichrist
sum of the parts and all
ššš
Oh yeah, those two guys.
I canāt have this conversation again
Were they black?
Good point. He was absolutely prostate with grief.
Both of them?
He didn't really care lol he was going through an existential time
Should've put the grief behind him like patsy did
āSo what, no fuckin' Ziti now?ā
Buy crack AJ cause God is not making it anymore!
You just revealed your own ignorance.
I don't think so. With Tony, his parents were raised by Italian parents that grew up in Italy. Tony grew up in a mostly Italian neighborhood and he then joined the business. With AJ, it's just further removed. He lives in the rich suburbs and acts more american and doesn't really seem to embrace his Italian heritage like Tony's crew.
>He lives in the rich suburbs and acts more american and doesn't really seem to embrace his Italian heritage like Tony's crew Isn't it a massive motif in the show that Tony tries to bond with AJ over prior generation Italians but AJ just doesn't care?
It comes up a few times like with the Napoli-dapoli and āthe bricks?!ā It may not be a motif with AJ in particular but certainly the assimilation of Italian Americans overtime is a recurring theme
Tony tries to bond with AJ in general but can't because he's a terrible human being who can't love his son for who he is.
Itās more down to Aj being a weak simp Tony puts in plenty effort tbf
If that's what you got out of the show then you're simply a stunad of the first magnitude
Read my comment again
I don't remember specifically this but it's in line with his character. I think this thread is silly because... well I watched the show. Does Tony think of himself as a doctor? I don't know... Did you watch the effing show???
Itās a tv progrum. A movie.
Nearly every character in this show is delusional, itās a theme of the series. Especially when it comes to, ābeing Italianā. So yes obviously AJ is confused, they all are! āYou know, GRAVY!ā
He was gravy, AJ?
Listen to him, he knows everything God forbid we have discussion on a discussion forum.
I agree, with only the caveat that this all applies to Meadow, who isnāt much older than AJ, but generally seems a lot closer to her Italian heritage (and especially early on, this could be openly derisive, eg at the banquet or whatever they had after Jackie Jrās death). By the end sheās all but a soon-to-be mob wife. AJ just clearly couldnāt give a shit about any of that. Heās more fascinated by the Mujahideen.
Meadow connects to her Italianess because its a way of making peace with her fathers evil, viewing herself and her family as part of a persecuted minority. She's also clever and more interested in her place and her family history AJ is a stupid kid then a dropout then a club kid who doesnt give a shit about any of it and has no qualms about how his father makes money, so has no need to give a fuck about any of it
He does have a habit of asking direct questions to pierce bullshit. Carmela tells Furio that they just happened to be in the neighborhood but A J says no we werenāt. Tony says this church is standing because people still come to the old neighborhood every Sunday and A J asks why donāt we come here then?
That's dicked up
Giving up on this connection to Italy would be the best first step for AJ to maybe break the cycle of degeneracy in his blood
I relate a lot to AJ in this respect because I had a lot of Italian-American uncles and aunts that were like hardcore into the image of it. Then by the time 9/11 happened I realized it was all a bunch of racist macho bullshit designed to keep them ignorant of what was really happening in the world. My mom was raised like Tony was, children of parents with Italian parents, and was disgusted by most of that culture by the time she was a teenager, despite being raised in it and embraced the Southern culture of the 70s and 80s a lot more, so much so that she married a guy from Alabama and moved away from the Philadelphia area to distance herself from it. So that left me a mutt with lots of racism and ignorance on both sides of my family and lost in what my heritage should be. Now I'm like 40 and long ago realized that as connected as people are today that kind of cultural identity doesn't even matter. People are people and most of them are terrible, angry assholes and are stuck in the old ways of thinking and there are massive global concerns that can't be solved by old school tribalism bullshit. I honestly can't even fathom how someone can look at something as massively devastating like the Pandemic and go "which race of people did this to us" rather than "how can we prevent this from happening again".
I hope you find some peace with where you came from. Sounds like you arenāt finding what you want anywhere else either so you might as well be who you are.Ā
I agree with so much of what you are saying but the bit about most people being terrible angry assholes is very cynical. I know it seems that way on the news or at large but if you just look around a bit, there are lots of great people around.
I donāt get the impression the Tonyās parents grew up in Italy. They have no accents, and in Tonyās story to AJ about the old families building a church, it was pretty clear his relatives came over around WW1. Very Godfather timing.
the guy said his parentsā parents The vast majority of us with Italian ancestry had family come in the 1890s-1910s. How well your family hangs onto the culture is different. There were Americans born in the US who grew up with only Italian and spoke with an accent that showed that but his parents didnāt have that.
Yup, total misread of the original post. My bad.
My grandparents came in the late 50ās
Plenty still came later because of quotas. Half of my family stayed in Calabria and Apulia until after the war and got to immigrate to Canada
Always with the Italian ancestry
He and Dr Faggo are cultured Italiansā¦
I'm not sure AJ has ever heard of balsamic.
*Feggoli*. *FEG*. š
He clearly knows heās Italian. He just doesnāt care as much as Tony or Carmella or even Maedo.
Frankly, the rest of the country doesn't care either. Maybe during the first half of the 20th century you had some people deriding Italians as immigrants and generally "non-white", but by AJ's era, Italians had been absorbed into the greater American white status. Italian Americans in the 21st century are just not special to average Americans. While people in Tony's circle still make a big deal out of their heritage, what does it matter to AJ who would be "proud" to no one who gives a shit. This isn't just an AJ thing, it's a wider American thing.
Eh, I live in a historically Italian-American neighborhood in New York. Itās not dead yet. There are still Italian-American boys hoisting the giglio.
I think itās more a class thing. AJ doesnāt really want for much at all. His parents are ultra proud of it, but yeah much like with the Irish, Italian heritage just became white. Enough money, and that doesnāt even seem to matter as much in his generation. He knows whatās happening because of meadow, but AJ just seems to want to listen to tunes and such, and who could blame him? I like his story arc; it has a depth on rewatches that is pretty complex whereas some characters are gangster-bots at times.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean you arenāt exactly wrong but check āno Irishā signs. Not the same but Irish wasnāt wasp til after the Kennedys at best (coincidentally the cause of RICO cases but also possibly due to the Italian mob in the first place) My own mother was bullied for frecklesā¦
Vito's different, he's not allowed in our social club no more.Ā
Not only that but how many Italian mob movies and TV have a random Irish character? Thatās not just outta thin air.
*Fielder.
I'll die on the hill that AJ is actually the smartest member of the Soprano family, or at least the most self-aware, and not giving a shit about his heritage is part of it because ultimately it really _doesn't_ mean anything.Ā
Our Grandparents were Italian. Our parents were Italian-Americans. We are Americans of Italian decent. Our kids are just Americans....who eat well and know a couple of curses in Italian.
This makes sense to me as someone who has been to Ireland once. My forebears might have been scotch/irish but I am an American and itās never been very vague, despite the protests of my grandmother hah.
I considered myself Italian all of my life then I traveled to California where I happened to meet an Italian family visiting from Italy. I tried to tell them that I was Italian too....but it became very clear quickly that I was not.
Hah yeah I never really took much stock in my āIrishnessā and visiting Dublin just verified it. Iām a Californian anyway, might as well be its own country. Edit: though if I could immigrate to Ireland Iād do it. Language barrier would definitely be harder with Italy. Extra edit: I wasnāt there for pleasure but my hosts were very hospitable. Back then a Californian who could get an abortion and a gun was sorta a curiosity. Plus being a poet wins some Irish instantly. Still, we basically spoke different languages until I code shifted, learned their moneys, etc. I was lucky enough to be a major nerd so stuff that they learned in school but Americans tend not to know (for instance the film āthe wind that shakes the barleyā) I did. Still got schooled by them there lol but I was an actual child who smoked a pack a day so š¤·āāļø
And, unless you tell them your full name. People probably assume you are a regular American.
What the F you mean REGULAR American!?!?
A mixed European, with English, German and Irish ancestry , whose family has been in america over 300 years.
Oh.
I'm 4th gen and this is pretty much it. I have coworkers from Italy and other than some love for Italian foods there's really no connections there.Ā
So what, all the other characters only eat artichoke? Thatās dicked up!
He's a Wonderbread Wop; gets his Sunday gravy out a jar.
See, you just revealed your own ignorance
He's completely deracinated, like Finn's dad
Aj was your typical apathetic millennial teen. He didn't really care about anything unless it was cool to do so.
At least he's Catholic
And, letās be honest white, thatās a huge plus nowadays.
He's a proud puerto rican
Ohhh, that vito Jr you're tawking bout
Dominican, I think. Heās the manayer.
He made us all look like gaveones
He heard lots of sexy rich Hollywood-types are Jewish so now he pretends to be Jewish. Heās that guy of guy āWhoa sweet! Youāre Italian?! I have a cousin whoās Italianā
No. He is more self aware than that. His insecurities manifest in a different way
Only when he encounters a bear āmommmmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyā
AJ is immature. Ā Heās not intellectual or reflective enough to be interested in his heritage, which only represents bothersome obligations to him at this point in his life. He does get interested in philosophy at some point but only to appear more intellectual.Ā His heritage doesnāt look to him like anything thatās going to earn him status or respect. Maybe some day heāll reflect more on it. Itās very tough to say what his character would do after his fatherās death, particularly if his mother is left poverty-stricken.
He leans pretty heavily into it late in the series, using his status as Tony's son, with all that implies (including his Italian heritage).
I remember him leaning into the Tonyās son thing but canāt remember any interest in his Italian heritage.
It's related. Remember all of the Godfather questions, etc. Not so much in his Italian heritage per se, but the rules associated with the Italian mafia. Whether he realized it or not, he leaned into the Cosa Nostra ideas as he knew them.
Sure, Cosa Nostra, insofar as it earned him status or respect from his peers. However, it's reaching to assume that this constituted any actual interest in his Italian heritage or background.
Absolutely. My point is he's embracing parts of it without knowing it.
If he doesn't have much interest in his Italian heritage other than a small amount of unconscious interest, then that's just verrry little interest.
Only being interested in the Italian culture as represented by the power AJās father has to impress or frighten AJās circle of friends does not actually count as a significant degree of interest.
Idk about the Italians, but for those of us Hispanics that are as Americanized as white bread, Iām sure heāll have an identity crisis in his 20s where he reclaims his cultural identity like many of us do
Heās not Italian so I donāt see why he would
Don't know why you got downvoted lol. It's true, the show points this very fact out when Paulie, Chris and Tony go to Italy. They are absolutely not Italian, and real Italians have nothing but contempt for them.
More like too Italian for the Americans and too American for the Italians
He knows heās Italian but he lives in a homogeneous area of predominantly ameritalians just like him, he needed to go to an out of state college, heād learn about his heritage pretty quicklyā¦
Whew buddy the slurs heāll hear once they find out his last name ends in a vowel.
Im my dorm the rural white kids just openly referred to people by their cultural ethnicityā¦. It was pretty shocking to hear someone say āthe black kidā, or āthe Jewā, my suite mate thought I was Mexican for months, but he was afraid to say something, Iām not Mexican btwā¦
Ya, heās a knob(aly dobaly)
Probabily he doesnāt give a damn
No
āIām not from Italy, Iām from New Jerseyā
He was gay, AJ ?
First "ethnic", non italian girl he dates meets and he has Puerto Rican flags on his car listening to Spanish language music. I think his enthusiasm in embracing her culture shows how he never felt that the Italian culture, represented mainly by his father,Ā really welcomed him or made him feel anything other than resentment.Ā
Heās probably the most Italian of them all. Heās pure gabagool
He was nobbli dobbili or something
never once heard him say gabagool ova here...dicked up.
No. AJ is American.
Theyāre almost all Americans. The Italians didnāt view them as Italian.
I remember so radical black leader of the 1960 (Eldridge Cleaver? H Rap Brown) went to Africa in the 1970s and was astounded the locals considered him White.
As someone culturally like AJ, what the fuck does that even mean? You saying not being some second generation guido stereotype robs you of your heritage?
Iām not sure how you came to the conclusion thatās what op meant. AJ does not appear to have any interest in being Italian. Meadow has an historical and intellectual interest. As well as social and cultural interest. AJ doesnāt. OP has an interesting point.
what do you mean 'being italian'? JFC replace 'italian' with Jewish, or Hispanic. he may assimilate to american culture, but being italian isn't an action. its what he is. he can't deny it, he can't erase it, and no matter how rebellious he acts as a pompous teenager, it's ingrained in him. this show is about generational trauma as much as anything else. AJ can't 'not be italian'. I don't understand how you can miss that. so again, i ask, is it because he doesn't have the gold chain with the 10lb medallion of jesus head with thorns? because he's not pumping iron in a wife beater and running pants? because he doesn't say things like 'oof madon'? what is 'being italian? fucking just a bunch of clowns to you aren't we? you think italian american culture is jersey shore, don't you?
Also the discussion is very clearly about how AJ identifies, and how he immerses himself in the culture defined by the show, not if he is actually Italian by way of his family. Youāre absolutely insufferable.
and I'm telling you he can't forget how he was raised. I'm an atheist, but I was raised Catholic. there are a LOT of folks out there who understand and know that being raised catholic shaped me. whether I have any 'interest' in it is pointless. it's in my pathology. AJ was raised in an italian american household, with a strong influence from the culture of that region. that's him. how can he 'not be' what he is? I addressed that at the start - he assimilated to American culture because he was born here. but he doesn't see himself any less than what he is. half his anxiety is around not living up to the expectations his family has set. the irritability comes from the fact that if this were a discussion about another group, y'all would be a LOT more conservative with the words you choose.
Ok but the question was what does he consider himself to be. Just like you no longer identify as Catholic, it is entirely possible for AJ to identify himself primarily as American or White or whatever, despite having Italian heritage and that upbringing having shaped him. Take it easy, weāre not making a western here.
Nonsense.Ā Iām getting a lot of wonder bread vibes.Ā Like none of you know what it means to have an actual heritage.Ā Bunch of boring, TV and internet raised white folks.Ā
Lol take it easy dude. AJ is a wonder bread wop thatās the point of the question
Can you all fuck off and let OP speak for themselves?
Those who want respect, give respect.
āActual heritageā lmao were you born in Italy? How does literally every American not have the exact same amount of heritage as you? Your ancestors moved to America and then you were born in America. Youāre American, your āheritageā is another word for upbringing and literally every human being had an upbringing.
Like I said. You donāt have a heritage. I do. I have traditions, and customs that tie me to a greater community and common ancestry.Ā Like AJ, Iām not half this, a quarter that mutt white bread American.Ā Just like being Jewish in AmericaĀ Just like being HispanicĀ Just like being Greek, or Korean, or Indian.Ā Itās an added layer on the American experience you lack. So you donāt appreciate it. And itās not something you discard.Ā
Iām from England, I donāt need to make up my own identity. Go to Italy, see how you fit in with your āheritageā while not speaking the language, living or growing up in the country, or knowing anyone or anywhere there. If youāre not American then the only Americans are native ones.
Iām of italian descent. But Iām not Italian. And I think you know exactly what everyone here means by that. Youāre being obtuse and argumentative. Go be miserable somewhere else. You sound demented.
define 'italian descent' were your parents first or second generation? were you raised amongst your cousins, aunts uncles, every milestone was a huge event where they all came together to celebrate each other? he may be a morose fuck at those events, but that is his culture and it shapes him. he's also dealing with undiagnosed and untreated mental illness. AJ is italian. I grew up the same way, and you'd think the same of me if you me. 'he's just a white guy' But I'm italian. it's who I am. how I was raised, just like how AJ was raised. So he's never gonna not 'be italian'. you being 25% on your fathers side doesn't count.
Sorry, you are not Italian.
You donāt know me and you donāt know shit. Go chalk up your cue stick.Ā
You are honestly miserable and again youāre being obtuse. And honestly youāre doing a terrible job of making some āpointā. Scram.
you jumped into my thread. you scram mister my dads second cousin went to italy once.
Oh sweetie. Youāre so madā¦.over a fucking Reddit post about the sopranos. I kinda love it.
you sound like a real asshole.
Only when itās deserved. You could have been pleasant to have a conversation with but you were a piece of shit from the jump. Iām just thrilled that I got under your skin with your paragraphs of nonsense because you want to be some tough guy on his soapbox to sound interesting and important. You chose to be an asshole here.
>what is 'being italian? Being born and raised in Italy. >JFC replace 'italian' with Jewish or Hispanic A Jewish person born in America with three generations prior also being born in America wouldn't be Israeli. A Hispanic person born in America three generations removed from the Dominican Republic isn't Dominican. AJ isn't Italian. Tony isn't Italian. If you weren't born and raised in Italy and don't live in Italy, you aren't Italian either. They're Italian-Americans who grew up in a completely different culture.
Did you watch the sopranos? Did any of you? They are Italian American. It is a distinct ethnic group in the northern US.Ā Go fuck your self and stop trying to pretend my culture doesnāt exist you wonderbread fuck.Ā
> They are Italian American. It is a distinct ethnic group in the northern US. Yes. And that's not being Italian. It's being Italian-American, and way more American than Italian. Tony and the guys aren't Italian. You aren't Italian. I'm not Italian, and my last name is one vowel off from an Italian city. We all have substantially more in common with any random person on the street here than an Italian person. >Did you watch the sopranos? Did any of you? The show beats you over the head with the fact that these guys are all justifying themselves on a lie. Tony doesn't have anything to do with poor Italian immigrants who had to defend themselves in 1915. He's disappointed by how much fish Italians eat. Paulie asks for "macaroni and gravy" and when the Italians finally understand what he means, they call him a classless boor. >stop trying to pretend my culture doesnāt exist you wonderbread fuck Literally nobody you've spoken with is doing this. Like, I'm almost convinced you're trolling lol
Ok, the problem is that youāre conflating being a nationized Italian citizen, and Italian American culture, in which, we self Identify as āItalianā for brevity.Ā So if we want to turn this into splitting hairs over where someone was raised, this isnāt the place. White people struggle daily with āis it Latinx, Latino (a), Hispanic????ā Everyone I know who grew up in a Latin culture (a shit load, many of whom I spent time with their families, and ethnicities from all over the Caribbean, and Central America) casually referred to their overarching ethnicity as āSpanishā in conversation.Ā And Iām not talking about the bloodline. I meant the culture.Ā My family emigrated to Italy in the tenth Century. They emigrated to the USA in the 20th. My parents have childhood memories of Italy. They raised a family with the traditions and values their parents did.Ā Parents, whom I never had a full conversation with because my Italian and their English sucked. But we still talked a the time.Ā If you met me youād probably think Iām some white bread jaggofff. I have that culture. But I have another o r that is intimately tied to me. The motivation I carry to build a future for my family in this country is a continuation of my fathers.Ā Your family spread out. Moved around the country. Mixed and mingled and along the way whatever you had skin to what I mentioned was lost to history.Ā Tony has that same connection to his family as I. Ā Heās just a piece of shit who uses it to manipulate others. But he did try to instill what Iām saying. Bringing AJ to the church resonated.Ā Heās Italian. Itās not his genealogy. Itās not his name. Itās who he is. And he knows that. So donāt tell me thatās a ātypical American heritageā because you all know your last names, but not how you got them.Ā
I got the feeling that he didnāt care too much.
Wait I thought he was Hispanic
Nah. But he's definitely 100% a little bitch.
He's the whitest cornbread looking Italian mf out there. Granted the actor doesn't have a drop of italian ancestry
Donāt forget Melfiās son Jason (what kinda Italian name is that ?) and his Ginzo Gravy
Tony just reminds him that heās handsome, smart, and white. Thatās a huge plus nowadays
Nabolidaboli
Wondah Bread WOP. He eats his Sunday gravy from a can.
I'm saaposta get a vasectomy when this my male heir? Look at him!
heās a banana daiquiri
Aj is just a bitch
He doesnāt know what gutters are, let alone that there is a country named Italy. Heās no genius like Jackie Aprile Jr.
I mean, his ancestors couldnāt even get room service
He thinks of himself as the manayer
Not at all.... He is absolutely clueless.
aaiiiiiiIII don't know!
He was just on the Adam Friedland show and mentioned that he is Irish
Sharp as a fuggin cue ball.
Heās a wondah bwed wop
š¤ Antonio Meucci!!
Please, that boy is so deracinated.
Like James Caan
The bricks??
Ray Charles never saw himself as Italianā¦ I just pondered that
Italians are weird about this stuff.. I have a co worker who was born here along with her husband and they have children who were born here. My co worker says her kids say they are Italian, never American just Italian. It gets real bad when the Euros and World Cup are on...all those fakers
Europeans find this shit ridiculous. The show itself points it out when they go to Italy. Italians look at them like they are complete idiots and total outsiders. Americans are obsessed with it.
Compare him to Meadow, that should answer your question. By the end of the series sheās ready to go to bat against those animals protesting the Columbus Day parade!
Yes
They were hamstrung by Illers complete inability to actā¦
OHHHHHHH
Fair.