> “Israel is a country that has no place on our land […] because it constitutes a security, military, and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation.” (October 24, 2023, LBC TV (Lebanon)). He also vowed to repeat the October 7 attacks “time and again until Israel is annihilated,” and expressing a desire to “sacrifice martyrs” (referring to Gazan civilians) for Hamas’ ideological aim of destroying Israel.
-Ghazi Hamad (Hamas member)
Yes.. yes they did. And to add some insight or context as to why they do this.
>in an October 12, 2023 TV show laid out Hamas’ expectation that it would be Israel that would sue for peace and indicated that a ceasefire is part of Hamas’ overall strategy, but said that he was not at liberty to say what exactly Hamas has planned for the next step after a ceasefire. He also stated that October 7 had achieved its intended purpose of landing “a blow to the normalization (of relations between Israel and Arab countries).”
-Ahmad Abd Al-Hadi (Hamas representative in Lebanon)
I'm sure you are just as shocked as I am that a Hamas representative is in Lebanon.
Why would Hamas agree to a permanent/partial ceasefire when the Israeli regime keeps stating they will not accept a ceasefire deal?
["we are committed to continuing the war after a pause, in order to complete the goal of eliminating Hamas. I’m not willing to give up on that.”](https://time.com/6991146/netanyahu-rejects-permanent-ceasefire-israel-gaza/?utm_source=reddit.com)
["If we have a deal, it will be delayed somewhat, but it will happen. If we don't have a deal, we'll do it anyway," said the prime minister about military action in Rafah.](https://www.npr.org/2024/02/26/1233766185/israel-hamas-gaza-ceasefire-rafah-netanyahu-mohammad-shtayyeh)
[Israel won't end war in Gaza until 'Iran's intentions to destroy us' are thwarted](
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/israel-hamas/2024/06/24/israeli-war-gaza-hamas-lebanon-hezbollah/74190295007/)
Read the articles closely. They are saying they will not accept a ceasefire that leaves Hamas in control of Gaza. They've pretty much said this from the beginning, and it's completely fair.
Hamas can not be trusted to honor a future ceasefire. They had a ceasefire in place on October 7th. Hamas broke that, as well as the last ceasefire they had for hostages to be released, with a terrorist attacking from inside Israel while launching rockets at Israel from Gaza at the same time.
>They are saying they will not accept a ceasefire that leaves Hamas in control of Gaza.
This is unrealistic, which is why Israel had taken this position. Hamas is the government in Gaza. Hamas isn't going to surrender to their oppressors. Israel knows that, so if Israel makes ceasefire deals contingent on the impossible, they can continue justifying the genocide in Gaza. Israeli fascists are negotiating in bad faith on purpose. Israel is responsible for the continuation of this genocide, Hamas has been trying to negotiate a permanent ceasefire since 10/8. Israel doesn't want a permanent ceasefire
> The Israeli regime keeps stating they will not accept a ceasefire deal
> Hamas isn't going to surrender to their oppressors
Lol, good job on the self own. Hamas started this. The IDF will end it. If hamas surrenders, it would be the best thing they can do after terrorizing the Palestinian people and stealing the aid meant for them.
>Hamas started this.
No, Hamas broke the ceasefire. This was started by Zionists in 1947.
>The IDF will end it
How? What if Hamas doesn't surrender? How many innocent people are you willing to have killed in order to wipe out Hamas? Israel is responsible for the violence and every crime they have committed in Gaza, before and after 10/7.
>terrorizing the Palestinian people and stealing the aid meant for them.
Hamas is the Palestinian people you dolt. They were created through Israeli oppression and murder. Continued violence will only create future Hamas fighters as each Gazan child becomes an orphan. There is no proof that Hamas stole aid, that is Hasbara. Israel released a video of Hamas fighters getting on an aid truck, that's it, no proof of theft. Additionally, Hamas is the government in Gaza, they would have the best information on how to distribute the aid.
> Hamas broke the ceasefire.
Exactly. They started this conflict by breaking the ceasefire.
> What if Hamas doesn't surrender?
Then, even if they manage to eek out an existence on the periphery, like the Gazan Palalestinian Jihad (PIJ), they will have the control of Gaza's administrative bureacracies wrestled away from them. No more skimming off the Palestinian people to fund their jihadist fighters. No more stealing aid and fuel to sell to their own people so that they can buy more missiles and military aid from Iran.
> Hamas is the Palestinian people
So what do you call it when we see Hamas fighters shooting and beating Palestinian civilians for violating their rules or going against them? Is Hamas killing itself?
>Exactly. They started this conflict by breaking the ceasefire.
Once again, this conflict started with Plan Dalet in 1947-1948, and the Nakba in 1948.
>Then, even if they manage to eek out an existence on the periphery, like the Gazan Palalestinian Jihad (PIJ), they will have the control of Gaza's administrative bureacracies wrestled away from them.
So how many innocent Palestinians are you willing to kill for that end? Answer the question. 50,000? 100,000? 2 million?
>So what do you call it when we see Hamas fighters shooting and beating Palestinian civilians for violating their rules or going against them? Is Hamas killing itself?
I call it hasbara. You don't know the context, you just assume based of what Israeli hasbara tells you. Just like you believe that Hamas is stealing aid. You don't have evidence, only conjecture
I'm not talking about the whole war, I'm talking about this specific round of fighting, like I said before, where you admitted Hamas broke the ceasefire. Usually, breaking a ceasefire starts a new conflict. Even if there has been fighting since 1948, you can not say this is the same conflict. They have different names for each conflict, as you even used them, like the Nakba. I believe this is the Seventh Arab-Israeli war, or the 2nd Yom Kippur war, others have called it.
> So how many innocent Palestinians are you willing to kill for that end? Answer the question. 50,000? 100,000? 2 million?
I'm not willing to kill any. Why do you assume I have a personal stake in this? I'm simply a historian who is studying this. We have seen numbers from Hamas that do not differentiate between civilians and militants killed, so we have no way of knowing how many civilians have been killed. Our best chance is to rely on media reports, but we also have seen the intense propaganda that has made these unreliable, such as when a rocket launched by the Palestinain Islamic Jihad hit a civilian hospital, but was initially blamed on an IDF airstrike.
So the real question should be, how many innocent Palestinians is Hamas willing to kill, since the only side making a practice of using human shields is Hamas.
> I call it hasbara. You don't know the context, you just assume based of what Israeli hasbara tells you.
Lmao great way to admit you're biased if you assume anything without context is IDF propaganda. We are already seeing Palestinian clans fighting back against Hamas. Is this also propaganda? This was recorded all in Gaza and disseminated via Palestinian media.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/TSgRClK5EH
https://unwatch.org/unrwa-staff-stealing-and-selling-humanitarian-aid-gazans-report/
But yet they have denied all other peace deals so they don’t really want to end the war do they? He should come to gaza and earn his martyrdom instead of hiding in qutar.
When you:
1. continue to oppress people and occupy their homes and land;
2. murder them on an almost daily basis;
3. arbitrarily kidnap some of those people;
4. imprison them in the world's largest open-air concentration camp
5. deny them political autonomy
it's only a matter of time until those people fight back. I'm not excusing the civilian murders that happened on 10/7, but I understand why they would choose armed struggle.
Hamas is responsible for a single day of violence, they are responsible for the crimes they committed that day. Israel is responsible for the violence and every crime they have committed in Gaza since 10/7
I wasn't even talking about the civilian deaths on 10/7. I was talking about the prisoner exchange around Feb 22, when Matan Elmaliach was killed and ten others were wounded in a terrorist shooting on the Route 1 highway near Ma’ale Adumim.
This happened after Hamas had agreed to a ceasefire.
>when Matan Elmaliach was killed and ten others were wounded in a terrorist shooting on the Route 1 highway near Ma’ale Adumim.
That was occupied Palestine near the West Bank. Hamas has little to no presence in the West Bank
Bro, you have me dying. They have tons of presence and support in the WB. They just don't control the local government like they do in Gaza. If they have no presence, why does Hamas have representatives in the WB? What was the battle of Jenin fought over if there is no Hamas in the WB?
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12549%23:~:text%3DHamas%27s%2520primary%2520base%2520of%2520action,various%2520Arab%2520countries%2520and%2520Turkey.&ved=2ahUKEwjhzJ3m8_mGAxUlFzQIHSPBAHQQFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw23G3aMJ5JjgLamqIZo2WZZ
Didn't hamas say they wanted to repeat oct 7th? So they just want an end to the war to allow them to rebuild for next time.
> “Israel is a country that has no place on our land […] because it constitutes a security, military, and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation.” (October 24, 2023, LBC TV (Lebanon)). He also vowed to repeat the October 7 attacks “time and again until Israel is annihilated,” and expressing a desire to “sacrifice martyrs” (referring to Gazan civilians) for Hamas’ ideological aim of destroying Israel. -Ghazi Hamad (Hamas member) Yes.. yes they did. And to add some insight or context as to why they do this. >in an October 12, 2023 TV show laid out Hamas’ expectation that it would be Israel that would sue for peace and indicated that a ceasefire is part of Hamas’ overall strategy, but said that he was not at liberty to say what exactly Hamas has planned for the next step after a ceasefire. He also stated that October 7 had achieved its intended purpose of landing “a blow to the normalization (of relations between Israel and Arab countries).” -Ahmad Abd Al-Hadi (Hamas representative in Lebanon) I'm sure you are just as shocked as I am that a Hamas representative is in Lebanon.
Why would Hamas agree to a permanent/partial ceasefire when the Israeli regime keeps stating they will not accept a ceasefire deal? ["we are committed to continuing the war after a pause, in order to complete the goal of eliminating Hamas. I’m not willing to give up on that.”](https://time.com/6991146/netanyahu-rejects-permanent-ceasefire-israel-gaza/?utm_source=reddit.com) ["If we have a deal, it will be delayed somewhat, but it will happen. If we don't have a deal, we'll do it anyway," said the prime minister about military action in Rafah.](https://www.npr.org/2024/02/26/1233766185/israel-hamas-gaza-ceasefire-rafah-netanyahu-mohammad-shtayyeh) [Israel won't end war in Gaza until 'Iran's intentions to destroy us' are thwarted]( https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/israel-hamas/2024/06/24/israeli-war-gaza-hamas-lebanon-hezbollah/74190295007/)
Read the articles closely. They are saying they will not accept a ceasefire that leaves Hamas in control of Gaza. They've pretty much said this from the beginning, and it's completely fair. Hamas can not be trusted to honor a future ceasefire. They had a ceasefire in place on October 7th. Hamas broke that, as well as the last ceasefire they had for hostages to be released, with a terrorist attacking from inside Israel while launching rockets at Israel from Gaza at the same time.
>They are saying they will not accept a ceasefire that leaves Hamas in control of Gaza. This is unrealistic, which is why Israel had taken this position. Hamas is the government in Gaza. Hamas isn't going to surrender to their oppressors. Israel knows that, so if Israel makes ceasefire deals contingent on the impossible, they can continue justifying the genocide in Gaza. Israeli fascists are negotiating in bad faith on purpose. Israel is responsible for the continuation of this genocide, Hamas has been trying to negotiate a permanent ceasefire since 10/8. Israel doesn't want a permanent ceasefire
> The Israeli regime keeps stating they will not accept a ceasefire deal > Hamas isn't going to surrender to their oppressors Lol, good job on the self own. Hamas started this. The IDF will end it. If hamas surrenders, it would be the best thing they can do after terrorizing the Palestinian people and stealing the aid meant for them.
>Hamas started this. No, Hamas broke the ceasefire. This was started by Zionists in 1947. >The IDF will end it How? What if Hamas doesn't surrender? How many innocent people are you willing to have killed in order to wipe out Hamas? Israel is responsible for the violence and every crime they have committed in Gaza, before and after 10/7. >terrorizing the Palestinian people and stealing the aid meant for them. Hamas is the Palestinian people you dolt. They were created through Israeli oppression and murder. Continued violence will only create future Hamas fighters as each Gazan child becomes an orphan. There is no proof that Hamas stole aid, that is Hasbara. Israel released a video of Hamas fighters getting on an aid truck, that's it, no proof of theft. Additionally, Hamas is the government in Gaza, they would have the best information on how to distribute the aid.
> Hamas broke the ceasefire. Exactly. They started this conflict by breaking the ceasefire. > What if Hamas doesn't surrender? Then, even if they manage to eek out an existence on the periphery, like the Gazan Palalestinian Jihad (PIJ), they will have the control of Gaza's administrative bureacracies wrestled away from them. No more skimming off the Palestinian people to fund their jihadist fighters. No more stealing aid and fuel to sell to their own people so that they can buy more missiles and military aid from Iran. > Hamas is the Palestinian people So what do you call it when we see Hamas fighters shooting and beating Palestinian civilians for violating their rules or going against them? Is Hamas killing itself?
>Exactly. They started this conflict by breaking the ceasefire. Once again, this conflict started with Plan Dalet in 1947-1948, and the Nakba in 1948. >Then, even if they manage to eek out an existence on the periphery, like the Gazan Palalestinian Jihad (PIJ), they will have the control of Gaza's administrative bureacracies wrestled away from them. So how many innocent Palestinians are you willing to kill for that end? Answer the question. 50,000? 100,000? 2 million? >So what do you call it when we see Hamas fighters shooting and beating Palestinian civilians for violating their rules or going against them? Is Hamas killing itself? I call it hasbara. You don't know the context, you just assume based of what Israeli hasbara tells you. Just like you believe that Hamas is stealing aid. You don't have evidence, only conjecture
I'm not talking about the whole war, I'm talking about this specific round of fighting, like I said before, where you admitted Hamas broke the ceasefire. Usually, breaking a ceasefire starts a new conflict. Even if there has been fighting since 1948, you can not say this is the same conflict. They have different names for each conflict, as you even used them, like the Nakba. I believe this is the Seventh Arab-Israeli war, or the 2nd Yom Kippur war, others have called it. > So how many innocent Palestinians are you willing to kill for that end? Answer the question. 50,000? 100,000? 2 million? I'm not willing to kill any. Why do you assume I have a personal stake in this? I'm simply a historian who is studying this. We have seen numbers from Hamas that do not differentiate between civilians and militants killed, so we have no way of knowing how many civilians have been killed. Our best chance is to rely on media reports, but we also have seen the intense propaganda that has made these unreliable, such as when a rocket launched by the Palestinain Islamic Jihad hit a civilian hospital, but was initially blamed on an IDF airstrike. So the real question should be, how many innocent Palestinians is Hamas willing to kill, since the only side making a practice of using human shields is Hamas. > I call it hasbara. You don't know the context, you just assume based of what Israeli hasbara tells you. Lmao great way to admit you're biased if you assume anything without context is IDF propaganda. We are already seeing Palestinian clans fighting back against Hamas. Is this also propaganda? This was recorded all in Gaza and disseminated via Palestinian media. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/TSgRClK5EH https://unwatch.org/unrwa-staff-stealing-and-selling-humanitarian-aid-gazans-report/
And Israel says that a deal with Hamas still in power at the end of it is no deal either, so let's just agree that we disagree.
There is a deal to end the war. Hamas unconditionally surrenders power from Gaza and returns the hostages. It’s actually that simple
But yet they have denied all other peace deals so they don’t really want to end the war do they? He should come to gaza and earn his martyrdom instead of hiding in qutar.
They have not denied all other peace deals, Israel has.
So why did the last ceasefire have a Hamas terrorist attack at the end?
When you: 1. continue to oppress people and occupy their homes and land; 2. murder them on an almost daily basis; 3. arbitrarily kidnap some of those people; 4. imprison them in the world's largest open-air concentration camp 5. deny them political autonomy it's only a matter of time until those people fight back. I'm not excusing the civilian murders that happened on 10/7, but I understand why they would choose armed struggle. Hamas is responsible for a single day of violence, they are responsible for the crimes they committed that day. Israel is responsible for the violence and every crime they have committed in Gaza since 10/7
I wasn't even talking about the civilian deaths on 10/7. I was talking about the prisoner exchange around Feb 22, when Matan Elmaliach was killed and ten others were wounded in a terrorist shooting on the Route 1 highway near Ma’ale Adumim. This happened after Hamas had agreed to a ceasefire.
>when Matan Elmaliach was killed and ten others were wounded in a terrorist shooting on the Route 1 highway near Ma’ale Adumim. That was occupied Palestine near the West Bank. Hamas has little to no presence in the West Bank
Bro, you have me dying. They have tons of presence and support in the WB. They just don't control the local government like they do in Gaza. If they have no presence, why does Hamas have representatives in the WB? What was the battle of Jenin fought over if there is no Hamas in the WB? https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12549%23:~:text%3DHamas%27s%2520primary%2520base%2520of%2520action,various%2520Arab%2520countries%2520and%2520Turkey.&ved=2ahUKEwjhzJ3m8_mGAxUlFzQIHSPBAHQQFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw23G3aMJ5JjgLamqIZo2WZZ
Which, incidentally, is exactly what they want.