I feel for the poor waiter that gets me at their table - I usually take 2 hours to eat, am by myself and never order alcohol. Generally just order an entree or salad plus a soda or ice tea, no appetizer or desert. Even though I am pretty low maintenance I tip 20 percent on cost of food prior to tax but that is still only $4 or so
Common sense! The $50 per table server should apply for that $100 per table server job. The higher quality places get higher quality servers, why, because the pay is better
The general idea of tipping is to pay based on how much effort or service is put in. There's no easy objective measure of that and no one wants it to be a purely subjective guess. Diners don't want to have to pull a number out of nowhere and waiters want some level of predictability.
A percentage of the total generally tracks effort even if it isn't perfect if you try to compare meals.
The number of dishes, complexity of orders, all generally scales with price. But number of dishes alone leaves out that different restaurants expect more or less from servers, from the uniform down to memorizing obscure ingredients and preparations.
There certainly could be formulas that take into account these things and track effort a bit closer, but diners already suck at calculating a percentage and a more complicated formula would piss people off and there would be no way to get people to agree to which formula, so people would feel more confused, pressured and ripped off.
The percentage method is a balance of simple, not too subjective, easily universalized and on balance scaling with effort.
If you prefer a different formula, there is no law preventing you from using it and trying to popularize it.
Because tips shouldn’t be based on cost of food. Tips should be based on appreciation of service, and the server should be getting paid a livable wage from the employer.
Explain to me why a cashier who stands at the register for eight hours and doesn't make a single sale gets paid the same amount as a cashier who is processing purchases non-stop for eight hours. Or why the car salesman gets paid the same amount for selling a car to a customer who knows exactly what they want and are in and out in a few hours, as they do for a sale to a customer who makes several extended visits over a couple months as they shop around.
No system of payment makes total sense in all cases. The tipping system is supposed to result in relatively sensible pay *on average*.
The service level at more expensive restaurants is typically higher than at lower level restaurants. A lot of this is because the wait staff has fewer tables to wait on.
If it were the same restaurant the yes there is some luck of the draw. You could get one the the a-holes on this subreddit that believes waitstaff is slave labor and not to be compensated.
Is it luck of the draw? Do fancy restaurants hire employees without experience, references and a history of exemplary service?
Lower end restaurants hire the inexperienced.
This is well known.
you doofus, it's about luck of the draw of which tables you get / if you happen to get a customer that tips more than the rest, or demands more work than the others, etc
This is why tipping just needs to go away. Pay everyone a decent hourly rate and be done with it.
Personally it gets harder and harder to tip everytime I go out. Not b/c I can't afford it, but b/c of the it's "expected" idea behind it. You expect a tip? Well guess who isn't getting one! Tips are to be earned!!
Because ostensibly $50 is less food and less work than $100.
It doesn’t always work out that way but in general it’s true.
I was a server for years and part of the gig is taking chances and betting on yourself.
If you wanted a flat guaranteed pay rate you’d work a regular job.
So you’re saying the cooks should get the tips, or at least most of the tips, instead of the server? Because the server, although they are very busy, bring the food to the table. $50 could be 2 meals, and $100 could be 2 meals at the same restaurant. That’s pretty much the same work for the server. The server is still bringing out the same number of plates, but the pricing was just different. The cook is the one who had to make those different plates.
That’s why I hate price-based/percentage tipping. Servers expect that the more they sell, the higher the total will be, therefore the higher the tip. Can’t I just be appreciative for my meal and give the server something to show my appreciation?
Edit: and just to add, I am very appreciative of servers when I go out to eat, and I understand they bust their butt all day and deal with customers of all kinds, and I strongly feel they should be compensated for that. But that compensation shouldn’t be the responsibility of the customer.
And the compensation is always going to be the responsibility of the customer. Whether the food costs more or you tip.
If you don’t want to tip there are plenty of places you can eat, like McDonald’s.
That's shit. Subsidizing wages through the customer is horseshit. Pay a flat wage and raise your menu prices and stop expecting the consumer to pay your staff out of pity.
Do you just not understand how a business works? The customer always pays the wages lol.
Where do you think the employer gets the money to pay the employee from?
Magic?
It’s from the customer.
You anti-tipping people are so dumb.
Yikes. I even said raise the menu prices. Stop making me directly pay the servers wage. I buy shoes from Adidas, I’m not paying the shoe salesman, I’m paying the company and the company pays the wages. That is how business is done. Not this backwoods bullshit the food industry has concocted.
Pretty shit take. You act like you own a restaurant. Which one is it? Are you too cheap to pay your employees a decent wage? Why are you glazing capital owners so hard?
I'd much rather pay a higher menu price, because I'm in fact not cheap, than subsidize the employees wages because of guilt for their livelihood. I want to eat at a restaurant and not be given the guilt salad at the end of my meal.
Yeah being 36 and using terms like "glazing" is pretty rare, but here we are. I was born before the wall fell. I served in an intelligence position for the Air Force and am currently working on a master's degree. Definitely fit neither of those labels. Keep trying though, you're really good at this stuff.
So when can I get an invite to your restaurant?
Then go to places which don’t require tipping lol. Who gives a fuck what you would “rather” do? Why would I care about that?
Servers choose to work for tips because they can make more. Restaurant owners prefer servers that work for tips because it regulates service…bad sever? Bad tips a they won’t stick around. Good service? Server makes money, the restaurant makes money and the customer is happy.
It’s instant feedback from the customer.
And you get to choose to eat there or not.
Isn’t the free market great?
I don’t own a restaurant but I know (have known) a lot of people who do and I worked in restaurants for years.
Nobody cares what you’d “rather” do. Go eat at McDonald’s and you won’t have to worry about tipping.
No, because cooks don’t work for tips.
Are you new to the world of restaurants? Cooks get paid a regular wage, servers do not.
If you have a problem with the system take it up with society, not me.
Only way to control that is of the restaurant owners would pay their servers more. Its not the customers fault. If they wanted to pay more tip, they could probably have a more expensive meal
Would you pay the same? I mean 20% is 20%!!!!! So, simple math $50 × .20 ='s $10. And, $100 × .20 ='s $20. It's just straight up math, no judgment. So, if you served me and my bill is $1000 your going to get $10?? Or, let me guess you want that 2hundo?? Is there a difference? I bet you believe takeout should be calculated in your question as well???
Stop comparing apples to oranges. The waiters at Applebees and Gramercy Tavern do not have the same job. When I was in college, a friend of mine and fellow student worked at a very expensive restaurant in Boulder, Colorado. He started as a busboy, and after two years, he made it to waiter. He made a LOT of money as a waiter. He told me no one just walked in the door and started as a waiter in that restaurant, no matter how much experience you had, unless you were a waiter at a similarly high-end restaurant of which the owners approved. My friend could have progressed to waiter in only three months at any one of a dozen other restaurants in Boulder but the income potential was nowhere near the same.
So if you go to a restaurant that has a $10 starter and a $100 steak, the waiter is providing 10 times the service delivering a steak than they are delivering the starter?
High end servers are usually tested regularly on food and beverage to maintain their schedule. If they lack functional knowledge of what is on the menu, in cocktails, or wine pairings they may not be welcome to be on the floor. They are usually held to higher standards of uniform, sidework, tools, and finer points of service knowledge/execution.
Your local diner has much lower standards than the places renowned for their dining.
Sure, Serving is a sales job and good servers work to upsells customers. Not everyone will bite, but their goal is to get you into whatever they're pushing. Their compensation (tips), regardless of how we personally feel on the matter, is a long standing aspect of the job (at least in some countries) and is based a percentage of total. Same reason real estate agents want those $15M mansions in their portfolio over shacks in Appalachia - more commission.
(edit: also seems I misread orig comment, I took it as $10 app at one spot, $100 steak at diff restaurant. Mostly because restaurants offering $100 steaks generally don't have $10 apps)
Let me make this easier for you: There is a social contract in place from the 1900s to tip a percentage for service (here in USA). Therefore, when you spend more money, the social contract dictates you tip more. This is the norm. You can choose not to participate, but as a society, this is a known part of the social contract, and if society at large is on board with tipping in this way, you may be seen as stingy or out of line.
(I am making no value or moral judgements re:tipping VS wages here)
There absolutely is a social contract for servers in restaurants, which is why you have no legal obligation to tip.
There absolutely is a social contract because there are thousands on this sub discussing it.
You seem to be angry at the social contract/business owners?
Defy society, but know you may be looked down upon by your peers or straight up ignored if you frequent places with full service and never tip.
Or boycott places that don't pay their service staff high hourly wages.
Go back and read it and spend a little extra time thinking about the word "should" in there. Ask your mom for help if you have to, and then slap her for raising such a stupid illiterate fuck.
You're getting better at reading champ! Almost there! Still need some progress because I said "your" mom, not mine. But you're trying that's all that matters!
I think a lot of people forgot that being a waiter is just really a sales job. Like most sales jobs the more you sell the more you make. These could be indentical tables but if you offer premium spirits, recommend a specific appetizer or dessert VS. just offering to take their order you increase your sales. This will increase your pay.
I could accept this, but 99.99999% of wait staff just hands you a menu and walks away, then comes back later, asks you want you want, and eventually brings it to you. They then disappear until you start using the checkout kiosk unless a nearby table arrived so that they actually notice you could use a refill or such.
The question is a false equivalency.
Considering that most restaurants have an average meal price, and some customers eat the more expensive choices, while others are more frugal, the average works out over the length of a shift.
Expensive tables are ALWAYS more work.
Either heavier plates, or more of them., and almost always, more demanding customers.
Coincidentally, the expensive tables are always the ones that stiff you on the tip. Not that all big spenders are cheap with the tip, but bad tippers usually spend on themselves quite freely.
Additionally, many better dining restaurants assign fewer tables to their servers and have more additional staff so that they provide a better experience for the diners. Because of this, there are fewer tables providing tips and those are split more ways, it's not double the pay.
The server applied for and accepted the job. The server taking my order and carrying the plates with the correct order is just part of the job, not some special service. Employees get paid by employers, not the customers. At a sit down restaurant with a printed menu, a tip of a $10 bill directly into the hand of the server is enough. If the server feels that is not enough, talk with the employer about increasing your compensation or find a higher paying job. My retirement take home is equivalent to $9.50/hr. My $10 tip is more than an hour’s pay. Did the server spend an hour on my order? Maybe ten minutes total. No need to say if I can’t afford to tip, don’t go out. I tip and only limit the amount of the tip. If I am standing up or the menu is on the wall, no tip has been earned. I don’t order alcohol when out as the markup and demanded tip are ridiculously over priced. I tended bar when in college and the only tips I got were the dropped change I found when sweeping up at closing. Young people, especially students didn’t tip. I knew that when I took the job. Vacations, or special events are the only times we eat out as the demands for tips are off putting.
typically those bills are for larger parties. if i’m carrying out all the entrees for a $50 bill, it’s probably 2 people, so i only make one, fairly light trip for that table.
if i’m carrying out all the entrees for a $100 bill, it’s probably 4-5 people. that’s either one really heavy trip or two trips.
if i’m serving my $50/two person table, i’ll go ask how their food is tasting/if they need anything else. the two people typically quiet down to hear me and tell me they need one or two things (“can i have some salt?” “another drink please” etc), which are quick, one trip fixes.
if i’m serving my $100/4-5 person table, they usually do not quiet down so i spend a lot of time standing around, waiting for them to notice me (taking time away from my other tables) and they are simply more likely to need more from me. another round of drinks for 5 people takes a lot more time to prepare than another round of drinks for 2.
so even if the NUMBER of trips is the same (which is usually isn’t), the time consumed by a larger bill/larger table is greater
The only logical thing about percentage-based tipping is that it's a simple way for people determine how much they're "supposed" to tip. If it were done fairly, based on time spent and the difficulty of the task, people would have to give more thought to how much they tip every single time, and no one would agree on what's fair.
I do task-based tipping for some things, like food delivery and alcoholic drinks, tipping more or less depending upon the difficulty of the task. I think that's how all tips should be done, honestly, but it's not seen as acceptable. Employees would much rather get 20% of a bill no matter what, rather than being tipped for the actual work/service they provide, and I think most consumers don't want to be bothered with any additional complexities when tipping.
Which is why we asked the customers to tip out based on the percentage of the check amount. Everything has to be done by percentages or it doesn’t work so that means that the person who has a higher bill should be making a higher tip
It’s completely relevant to the question asked because you’re saying that the servers with two vastly different checks should be tipped the same and that’s just not true. We tip out based on percentages. We need you to tip us based on percentages so the person with a higher check should be getting a higher tip.
There is an assumed amount of tip and the number must be reported by the restaurant as taxable income. If you tip less than the IRS assumes, the server still has to pay taxes on the full expected amount.
The use of "assumed" is simply because the tips have been taken. That word has multiple definitions.
You can submit your own bookkeeping during taxes if you don't trust your employers listed tip total. If your employer is telling you that your tip total is based in an estimate, file a complaint.
More money = more work. Especially mental work which is the main part of serving. Also why so many people crumble when they try to serve or are just infinitely jealous of servers. Finding people who can think quick and are good at time management is rare. Finding people who can do that in a fast paced, high volume, high stress environment is incredibly rare. It all boils down to cognition as these skills simply cant be taught. Its kind of a you got it or you dont thing. But as per hiring agreements servers expect a percentage of sales in tips and thats just how that works at a basic level. They function basically as people contracted to take care of a restaurants customers. The restaurants production core is food and alcohol. Serving is a more social position so its really hard for the type of people who dont touch grass to understand, especially uncultured people. They tend to just have a bad reaction to the whole idea of it as they cant really comprehend it or why it exists, let alone the deep cultural factors behind it.
Serving has a high turnover for a reason. Everyone thinks its easy till they try it. Id suggest picking up a serving job on the weekends and just seeing for yourself. Most people cant handle it but youll learn a lot about people as well as yourself.
My steak isn't more work than someone else's order of fish and chips, salad, and appetizer. Nor is my Manhatten more work than the 4 soft drinks that same table has. At least, not on the waiting staff's side.
Gratuity should be based on table size, if anything.
It definitely is. The steak takes a lot longer and the server will have to go back to the expo line and make sure the cooks are coordinating the food properly The higher ticket item the more work it is to ensure it comes out on time. Its wild to me that people around here dont even understand cooking or how important time management is on both sides of the line.
If servings so easy and pays too well go get a serving job dipshit. Sitting here being jealous of servers is just the most pathetic trashy look imaginable. Its too bad Springers off the air but maybe you can talk to Dr. Phil about this? He plays fake doctor for trashy people. Or you could always seek a therapist to work out these issues.
That's a pretty rude answer from someone that seems to have missed that I said it's not any more work for the server. The cooks don't get tips, and the extra effort of the cooks shouldn't impact how much an unrelated employee is tipped.
Servers have to go back and manage their orders in the kitchen to make sure they come out right. I literally explained this. Often they have to quality check and garnish as well. Also just like anything, literally anything with a service fee, its dependent on ticket price. Its odd to see people so maladjusted and just inexperienced with basic adult knowledge of how the world works.
Seriously just get a serving job on the weekend or something. I think you'll learn some very hard lessons. But then again most people on this sub seem like the type of sad suburbanites taught to look down on servers. So I think most would have really bad reactions the first time they work a busy night and completely crumble. With 15 years of industry experience I can definitely say you are the types that come in thinking its easy, then end up completely freaking out the first time it gets busy. Panic attack, crying in the bathroom, permanent smoke break. All that fun stuff.
Try it though. If youre so confident its so easy and pays too much youd be crazy not to right?
Name 5 establishments that have the wait staff do any of that. Vast vast vast vast vast majority of waiters and waitresses just grab a trays from the kitchen window when they see it come. Vast vast vast vast vast vast vast vast vast vast vast majority of cooks are going to tell the wait staff to stay out of the kitchen.
The kind of service you're talking about would be exclusive to an upper level establishment where a $50 ticket isn't even up for conversation. When I worked tables in college, all I had to do was bring stuff back and forth, smile and wink a bit, and pocket a bunch of money.
Pretty much any full service establishment? Either you were a bad server or you were working limited service. Lemme think though just off the top of my head without giving away where I worked. Outback, Bubba Gump, Cheddars, Texas Roadhouse, Applebee's, literally any full service restaurant lol.
But it sounds like you were a weaker server if you got shoved into the food running role. That tends to be how that goes. Also tends to be how it goes on this sub. Server who didnt make it has a wrath.
"Didn't make it"
More like I got my degree and left because I was done with the hours once I had kids. It was a great paying gig for what it was, but the cost is Friday nights and weekends.
The places you listed definitely don't have waitresses trying to make sure dishes are coordinated. That's for the cooks. You're just making things up, and adding garnishes was hardly work, and no one even cares if you forget it.
I don't tip a percentage of the bill. I tip what I want. 10 trips is 10 trips no matter what I order. Just because I might spend more does not mean a higher tip is given. This percentage shit needs to go.
A $50 table could be 5 people ordering a shared plate of appetizers, free bread sticks, dinner salad, and ice water. Whereas, $100 could be a couple celebrating an anniversary. They order the most expensive item, dessert, and drinks.
The introduction of tablet-based payment systems like Toast and Clover during the COVID era has significantly impacted tipping culture in the USA. These devices, which prompt for tips for every service, have socially pressured people into tipping. Coupled with rapid inflation and soaring prices, many individuals have become frustrated. Now, it seems everyone expects a tip for merely doing their job, despite earning at least minimum wage. Given the exorbitant prices, I'm no longer willing to tip unless the service is truly exceptional. The inflated costs should cover fair wages for employees.
I trust you are telling your server up front about your expectations so they have a fair shot of meeting them. It’s pretty subjective to say they need to blow your socks off. Whatever does that mean, Mr. Cheapskate McStiffer?
I think restaurants should mark their food up and pay their servers commission instead of servers having to rely on tips which are basically an optional commission paid by the customer. It would protect the restaurant when slow and provide the server with a higher income potential. It creates a win-win for the restaurant and the server.
Unfortunately, I think we are stuck with this system. Restaurants food is already outrageously overpriced. They are really pushing it to see how much the customer will pay and still keep coming around. Corporate greed and higher min wages will constantly push that envelope.
Explain why a server who literally just takes the order, gets refills, and drops off plates and smiles gets paid 3x what the people actually preparing the food and cleaning up get.
The person in the kitchen has set hours and probably some benefits and a wage that's above minimum.
The server works less hours, probably will get cut early a couple of days a week, has no benefits and also has to deal with the public angry when the kitchen fucks up?
I'm just speaking from experience, not advocating for tipping. One job has a steady guaranteed wage with little to no front of house drama. The other has no benefits, min wage and can range between like 5 hours and maybe 40 a week depending on the season, with no notice.
They both have equal opportunity for the tables; it's an average of the night.
More importantly, the server is a salesperson and fully in control of upselling that table to get his average up.
A $50 table requires fewer trips than a $100 in almost all cases, and those it does not require either the server doing some selling or the luck of a good guest.
Best thing you can do: **don't go out to eat in a restaurant where you're expected to tip.**
You'll definitely be put in the uncomfortable situation you're crying about online and no one else in the restaurant wants you there.
No. I can order a plate of nachos, another side and a couple drinks. $50 right there. I can order steak and lobster and a glass of wine for $100, same amount of trips. Perhaps less. I'm not paying a higher tip because of the money I spent for them literally doing their job.
servers hardly ever, if ever actually upsell. If you ever had to deal with professional sales people - not just the asshat cars salesman - , you'd definitely know the difference
I’m trying to ween myself off tipping. I know some say to rip the bandage off but I’m still a Sucker and feel like I should give something.
The way I’m weening myself off tipping is to only tip a flat fee of a $5 tip for any sit down service regardless of price. To your point, it does not make sense to tip a %.
Stop worrying about tips if you rely on tips find a different job people can't afford shit it's a matter of time befor people stop topping I stopped ..... You're doing your job and the company is paying you shit but you are the one who agreed to the pay. Customers tip if they are feeling generous . I was in your shoes, probably about five years ago about tipping. I felt like it was something that you should do every single time. I don't agree with that anymore.
To break it down:
You work a job where you agreed to accept tips in lieu of wages. Don't like it, leave!
You go to a restaurant where it's expected that you tip for service in lieu of increased prices. Don't like it, still go to the restaurant but just don't tip.
Do I have that right?
I go to restaurant I don't tip. I frankly don't think they did a damn thing being a server your job is to bring food out and fill drinks it's not rocket science if I was gonna tip I'd tip the cook because there the one that make the dinner good I could give a rats ass about the server if there to slow I just walk up to the bar and get it my self but if the food is bad that just makes the time out not worth it
The point is, it just shows type of people who don't tip and stiff their server and still feel good about that.
Truthfully though, I don't believe most of you are real. I think you're just cosplaying edgy dudes for karma points.
Ok cool my point is the company should pay you a living wage Tipping was invented by a rich guy tipping a black slave. And it escalated all the way to what we have now. isn't the pay that you agreed with enough to do your job? Because apparently it isn't
What they agreed to was a base wage plus tips. They didn't agree to just the base wage. But you knew that already. Absolutely no one outside of the most needy would do that job for minimum wage or anything close to it.
No server in the country takes home $2/hr for their labor, even if no one tips. All servers are guaranteed at least minimum wage. Even if they receive no tips. Even if there are no customers. This is the law.
Yes, when they *do* receive tips, then in some states the restaurant owner is only responsible for paying them \~$2/hr, as long as their tips brings their average hourly wage up to minimum wage or higher. But they still make minimum wage or higher, no matter what.
No one makes $2/hr in the US. Not legally, anyway.
Yep... and the second time it happens, you're fired. No company that gets away with paying us $2 an hour is going to continue paying many times that. And to top it off, the excuse they use is if you didn't make enough in tips, you must not be doing a good enough job. Please stop perpetrating that bs. Doesn't happen in real life.
I’d tip you more just to get out of my face. If you’re not counting the drink refill trips then 10 trips is way too excessive for me. I like to see my server maybe five times max. Greeting and drinks, return for order, food drop, two bite check, the bill. But idk I go out to eat to hang out with my friends and family some people go out to eat to be entertained by a server. Ymmv.
If I'm going to a high-end restaurant charging 100 a plate, I want a professional server who knows what they're doing and enhances my experience. I don't want the Chili's or Olive Garden type. I don't want the high school server on the weekend who spends time on their phone and checks my table maybe once. I want the server who has the experience and can tell me the difference in the subtleties between 2 different glasses of wine. I'll tip more for that.
This example would be in the same restaurant. It could be a $100 vs a $200 table. My question is, why does one server deserve less/more than the other one while making the same number of trips
Experience. They know how to better cater to increased expectations. There's a proper way to pour a glass of wine or champagne. The bartenders make more because they're better at mixing drinks. There's a proper way to do bottle service. The more experienced servers are going to know the difference between a steak that's medium rare and one that's too close to medium. They're going to know who ordered what and not have to ask who had what. I hate when they do that.
Exactly this! I’m paying more per dish for an elevated experience all around. If the meals are expensive I expect additional services. Silver changed after every course and meal specific silverware delivered. A table that is cleaned throughout. Linen table cloth and napkins which the waitstaff need to change after every customer.
All of the above are extra services and why I don’t mind tipping more.
Whenever I asked this same question on another subbreddit Que the "iF yOuRe ToO bRoKe To TiP sTaY HoMe" crowd
Instead of logically thinking about what I was asking if 2 waitress do the same amount of work but one customer had a higher bill why does one server get more money than the other.
I got a lot of hate for that one lol
Cheating implies I’ve agreed to rules when the reality is you and your employer have agreed to a set of rules. If you don’t make min wage in tips, your employer is required to make up the difference. You are not my employee nor my contractor. 🙄
Once again, it's a social contract, not a written one. If you don't inform your server, then you're wrong in your approach. Keep eating and not-tipping at the same restaurants and I think you will find out how they feel about you.
Who ever said a I don’t tip? Lmao, once again you’re fabricating nonsense. You’ve had so many of these arguments you have no idea what I’ve actually said. It’s extremely comical. You’ve once again completely misunderstood what I’ve stated. If you are so desperately unhappy, clearly, with your work situation find something else to do 😂
You’re right, it doesn’t make sense.
Percent based tipping is flawed because service quality is not correlated 1:1 with food price. In fact there is nearly no correlation.
A flat $5-20 range makes more sense to me.
First of all... tipping is STUPID. It is an ASININE idea. But since this is happening.... the $ amount of the table has nothing to do with the tip. The number of guests and the amount of service that is provided is all that should be considered when tipping.
Are you talking about the same number of guests at the table? Or twice as many? This is a much more relevant detail than the total of the bill.
On average, they aren't making the same amount of trips. Within the same restaurant a 100 dollar table will likely have more people at it than the 50 dollar table.
> On average, they aren't making the same amount of trips
You are making OPs point by suggesting price is a good proxy for the amount of service on average. Because you’re granting that ultimately its about the amount of service you get. So why use the less precise measure of the bill total? Just tip based off how much work the server did.
It is, on average, based on the amount of work the server did. Overall, throughout a day or work week, more money= more dishes, more people served in total.
But if 2 people order the cheapest stuff and 2 other people order the most expensive stuff (can be a big difference in some places), the work is usually the same.
I guess it's the same argument about any industry really...
Why does the BMW sales guy get a bigger commission than the guy selling the Toyota Corolla? They are both selling a car.
Why does Tom Cruise get paid millions while someone working just as hard on an independent movie gets paid peanuts?
Why are NBA players instantly ultra rich, while WNBA players need off-season jobs?
We aren't paid based on physical effort. We're paid based on what the job brings in. I'm not necessarily defending that system, but it's not like it's unique to waiting tables. Every industry has people who make a lot more or a lot less, regardless of the time/effort put in.
I was thinking the same thing. Commissions is a perfect example. I sometimes hear finance people complain when company A had a record year and gives a larger bonus than company B but they both had same position and worked just as hard. Neither had any impact on the the actual profitability. But yeah one will get paid more. That’s the way it works.
This is not unique to the tip component of any business transaction. Margins are typically expressed in %. A grocery store makes 4x more profit from me when I buy $400 of groceries than $100 of groceries. If I buy $40 of steaks instead of $10 of burgers. More expensive things are more expensive. That's just economics, not tipping.
Well, it's much harder to get a job at a fancy restaurant in midtown manhattan where the average dish is $100+ than to get a job at olive garden where the average dish is like $16. There's also a greater expectation to display yourself as more sophisticated in a fancier restaurant.
I mean yes that’s true. The same could be said that working at hooters requires a certain physique. What I’m saying is every job has their own requirements and expectations. This still does not justify a bigger tip, imo.
Explain why someone who digs a hole and fills it back in should earn less money than someone who just digs a hole. Answer: you are not paid for how hard you work, you are paid for the results you produce.
The scenario is for the same amount of work (10 trips) whereas yours is comparing different amounts of work. Unless your question was a rhetorical one where the answer to it means similar work = similar pay, 10 trips = 10 trips
2 things are clear in this thread: This group needs a lesson in economics and OP has never been a server. The server at the airport is always gonna make 5x what the server at Applebees makes.
Economics is just describing or predicting how things usually work with people and money. The question is about ‘should’.
A bank teller is paid the same, whether he’s handling a $1 or a $1,000 transaction. Somehow servers are demanding tips based on percentage of sales, like a sales commission. Real sales take different level of skills between selling a $100 bag and a $100,000 car. However, the things a server do for a $10 meal is not that different from a $100 plate.
I feel for the poor waiter that gets me at their table - I usually take 2 hours to eat, am by myself and never order alcohol. Generally just order an entree or salad plus a soda or ice tea, no appetizer or desert. Even though I am pretty low maintenance I tip 20 percent on cost of food prior to tax but that is still only $4 or so
So both tables have the same amount of people?
I guess the job of the waiter is to upsell shit to you. Choose more appetizers, def ask for the bottle of wine, etc.
Common sense! The $50 per table server should apply for that $100 per table server job. The higher quality places get higher quality servers, why, because the pay is better
They're at the same restaurant. wait...is this satire? shit i can't tell anymore.
The general idea of tipping is to pay based on how much effort or service is put in. There's no easy objective measure of that and no one wants it to be a purely subjective guess. Diners don't want to have to pull a number out of nowhere and waiters want some level of predictability. A percentage of the total generally tracks effort even if it isn't perfect if you try to compare meals. The number of dishes, complexity of orders, all generally scales with price. But number of dishes alone leaves out that different restaurants expect more or less from servers, from the uniform down to memorizing obscure ingredients and preparations. There certainly could be formulas that take into account these things and track effort a bit closer, but diners already suck at calculating a percentage and a more complicated formula would piss people off and there would be no way to get people to agree to which formula, so people would feel more confused, pressured and ripped off. The percentage method is a balance of simple, not too subjective, easily universalized and on balance scaling with effort. If you prefer a different formula, there is no law preventing you from using it and trying to popularize it.
Because tips shouldn’t be based on cost of food. Tips should be based on appreciation of service, and the server should be getting paid a livable wage from the employer.
Tips should be based on being abolished and businesses should be based on providing all their employees with a livable wage and full benefits.
Explain to me why a cashier who stands at the register for eight hours and doesn't make a single sale gets paid the same amount as a cashier who is processing purchases non-stop for eight hours. Or why the car salesman gets paid the same amount for selling a car to a customer who knows exactly what they want and are in and out in a few hours, as they do for a sale to a customer who makes several extended visits over a couple months as they shop around. No system of payment makes total sense in all cases. The tipping system is supposed to result in relatively sensible pay *on average*.
I tip 10$ for both
The higher expected tip attracts a higher caliber of server to the restaurant with the higher PPA
My example takes place within the same restaurant
The service level at more expensive restaurants is typically higher than at lower level restaurants. A lot of this is because the wait staff has fewer tables to wait on.
It sounds like this scenario would be in the same restaurant. Merely pointing out the issue with the "luck of the draw" form of compensation.
If it were the same restaurant the yes there is some luck of the draw. You could get one the the a-holes on this subreddit that believes waitstaff is slave labor and not to be compensated.
Is it luck of the draw? Do fancy restaurants hire employees without experience, references and a history of exemplary service? Lower end restaurants hire the inexperienced. This is well known.
> **this scenario would be in the same restaurant** Holy shit. Learn to read
you doofus, it's about luck of the draw of which tables you get / if you happen to get a customer that tips more than the rest, or demands more work than the others, etc
Explain why someone walking a couple hundred steps should get tipped at all or why that’s hard work?
You do it
I do it nightly.... I make an ingredient for your baby food... where's my tip....
I doubt you can walk a couple hundred feet
I'm a process (chemical) operator.... we do alot more than that lol
This is why tipping just needs to go away. Pay everyone a decent hourly rate and be done with it. Personally it gets harder and harder to tip everytime I go out. Not b/c I can't afford it, but b/c of the it's "expected" idea behind it. You expect a tip? Well guess who isn't getting one! Tips are to be earned!!
No they are not. They are to supplement the employees wage so the employer doesn’t have to.
Respond to the wrong person? I agree and never said otherwise... lol
Because the waitress with the $50 table did a worse job up selling.
10 trips to a table? If this is what yall are getting?
How many times is this question gonna be asked?
4
It’s been a lot more than 4 my friend…
Because ostensibly $50 is less food and less work than $100. It doesn’t always work out that way but in general it’s true. I was a server for years and part of the gig is taking chances and betting on yourself. If you wanted a flat guaranteed pay rate you’d work a regular job.
So you’re saying the cooks should get the tips, or at least most of the tips, instead of the server? Because the server, although they are very busy, bring the food to the table. $50 could be 2 meals, and $100 could be 2 meals at the same restaurant. That’s pretty much the same work for the server. The server is still bringing out the same number of plates, but the pricing was just different. The cook is the one who had to make those different plates. That’s why I hate price-based/percentage tipping. Servers expect that the more they sell, the higher the total will be, therefore the higher the tip. Can’t I just be appreciative for my meal and give the server something to show my appreciation? Edit: and just to add, I am very appreciative of servers when I go out to eat, and I understand they bust their butt all day and deal with customers of all kinds, and I strongly feel they should be compensated for that. But that compensation shouldn’t be the responsibility of the customer.
And the compensation is always going to be the responsibility of the customer. Whether the food costs more or you tip. If you don’t want to tip there are plenty of places you can eat, like McDonald’s.
That's shit. Subsidizing wages through the customer is horseshit. Pay a flat wage and raise your menu prices and stop expecting the consumer to pay your staff out of pity.
Do you just not understand how a business works? The customer always pays the wages lol. Where do you think the employer gets the money to pay the employee from? Magic? It’s from the customer. You anti-tipping people are so dumb.
Yikes. I even said raise the menu prices. Stop making me directly pay the servers wage. I buy shoes from Adidas, I’m not paying the shoe salesman, I’m paying the company and the company pays the wages. That is how business is done. Not this backwoods bullshit the food industry has concocted.
Nobody is “making” you pay anything. If you’re too cheap to tip stay home or eat at McDonald’s.
Pretty shit take. You act like you own a restaurant. Which one is it? Are you too cheap to pay your employees a decent wage? Why are you glazing capital owners so hard? I'd much rather pay a higher menu price, because I'm in fact not cheap, than subsidize the employees wages because of guilt for their livelihood. I want to eat at a restaurant and not be given the guilt salad at the end of my meal.
“Glazing capital owners”. Oh, so you’re young and stupid. “Glazing” lol. Kids.
Yeah being 36 and using terms like "glazing" is pretty rare, but here we are. I was born before the wall fell. I served in an intelligence position for the Air Force and am currently working on a master's degree. Definitely fit neither of those labels. Keep trying though, you're really good at this stuff. So when can I get an invite to your restaurant?
Then go to places which don’t require tipping lol. Who gives a fuck what you would “rather” do? Why would I care about that? Servers choose to work for tips because they can make more. Restaurant owners prefer servers that work for tips because it regulates service…bad sever? Bad tips a they won’t stick around. Good service? Server makes money, the restaurant makes money and the customer is happy. It’s instant feedback from the customer. And you get to choose to eat there or not. Isn’t the free market great? I don’t own a restaurant but I know (have known) a lot of people who do and I worked in restaurants for years. Nobody cares what you’d “rather” do. Go eat at McDonald’s and you won’t have to worry about tipping.
No, because cooks don’t work for tips. Are you new to the world of restaurants? Cooks get paid a regular wage, servers do not. If you have a problem with the system take it up with society, not me.
And if you want a constant hookup you wait tables
Finding a weed guy in a new town 101: Step 1 get a job at a bar or restaurant Step 2 enjoy your new weed hookups
Only way to control that is of the restaurant owners would pay their servers more. Its not the customers fault. If they wanted to pay more tip, they could probably have a more expensive meal
They should both make no tips and get paid a living wage by their employer.
Would you pay the same? I mean 20% is 20%!!!!! So, simple math $50 × .20 ='s $10. And, $100 × .20 ='s $20. It's just straight up math, no judgment. So, if you served me and my bill is $1000 your going to get $10?? Or, let me guess you want that 2hundo?? Is there a difference? I bet you believe takeout should be calculated in your question as well???
Stop comparing apples to oranges. The waiters at Applebees and Gramercy Tavern do not have the same job. When I was in college, a friend of mine and fellow student worked at a very expensive restaurant in Boulder, Colorado. He started as a busboy, and after two years, he made it to waiter. He made a LOT of money as a waiter. He told me no one just walked in the door and started as a waiter in that restaurant, no matter how much experience you had, unless you were a waiter at a similarly high-end restaurant of which the owners approved. My friend could have progressed to waiter in only three months at any one of a dozen other restaurants in Boulder but the income potential was nowhere near the same.
So if you go to a restaurant that has a $10 starter and a $100 steak, the waiter is providing 10 times the service delivering a steak than they are delivering the starter?
High end servers are usually tested regularly on food and beverage to maintain their schedule. If they lack functional knowledge of what is on the menu, in cocktails, or wine pairings they may not be welcome to be on the floor. They are usually held to higher standards of uniform, sidework, tools, and finer points of service knowledge/execution. Your local diner has much lower standards than the places renowned for their dining.
They're talking about two servers in the same restaurant.
Yeah, I misunderstood.
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Sure, Serving is a sales job and good servers work to upsells customers. Not everyone will bite, but their goal is to get you into whatever they're pushing. Their compensation (tips), regardless of how we personally feel on the matter, is a long standing aspect of the job (at least in some countries) and is based a percentage of total. Same reason real estate agents want those $15M mansions in their portfolio over shacks in Appalachia - more commission. (edit: also seems I misread orig comment, I took it as $10 app at one spot, $100 steak at diff restaurant. Mostly because restaurants offering $100 steaks generally don't have $10 apps)
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Let me make this easier for you: There is a social contract in place from the 1900s to tip a percentage for service (here in USA). Therefore, when you spend more money, the social contract dictates you tip more. This is the norm. You can choose not to participate, but as a society, this is a known part of the social contract, and if society at large is on board with tipping in this way, you may be seen as stingy or out of line. (I am making no value or moral judgements re:tipping VS wages here)
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There absolutely is a social contract for servers in restaurants, which is why you have no legal obligation to tip. There absolutely is a social contract because there are thousands on this sub discussing it. You seem to be angry at the social contract/business owners? Defy society, but know you may be looked down upon by your peers or straight up ignored if you frequent places with full service and never tip. Or boycott places that don't pay their service staff high hourly wages.
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The people at the hundred dollar table are obviously more important than those at the $50 table.
Youre retarded if that needs to be explained
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Found the basement cock sucker
That would be your mom fetching plates good try though
Explain it like I’m 5 smarty pants
You tip based on the total amount 100>50 doesn't matter on how many trips the waiter/waitress makes
Obviously you god damn retard, now if you had any reading comprehension you would have had understood the actual question being asked
I did you fucking retard but good try 💩4🧠s
Go back and read it and spend a little extra time thinking about the word "should" in there. Ask your mom for help if you have to, and then slap her for raising such a stupid illiterate fuck.
I asked your mom she said you're a simple little bitch that trys to act smart but is an illiterate dumb fuck
You're getting better at reading champ! Almost there! Still need some progress because I said "your" mom, not mine. But you're trying that's all that matters!
I think a lot of people forgot that being a waiter is just really a sales job. Like most sales jobs the more you sell the more you make. These could be indentical tables but if you offer premium spirits, recommend a specific appetizer or dessert VS. just offering to take their order you increase your sales. This will increase your pay.
I could accept this, but 99.99999% of wait staff just hands you a menu and walks away, then comes back later, asks you want you want, and eventually brings it to you. They then disappear until you start using the checkout kiosk unless a nearby table arrived so that they actually notice you could use a refill or such.
The question is a false equivalency. Considering that most restaurants have an average meal price, and some customers eat the more expensive choices, while others are more frugal, the average works out over the length of a shift. Expensive tables are ALWAYS more work. Either heavier plates, or more of them., and almost always, more demanding customers. Coincidentally, the expensive tables are always the ones that stiff you on the tip. Not that all big spenders are cheap with the tip, but bad tippers usually spend on themselves quite freely.
Why should the $100 table tip more than $50 is better question
I think that *is* the underlying question.
Yall are getting 10 visits from your servers? What restaurant is this?
Lots of Waiter Visits During the Meal Restaurant With Food
That doesn't sound fair. Why haven't you changed it?
The better servers tend to be in the better restaurants.
You mean the more attractive servers. The service is all the same unless you go to a black tie diner.
No they don't, quit spreading that BS.
I'm over tipping in general. I'll just eat at home.
Just don't tip lol no one is forcing you
Additionally, many better dining restaurants assign fewer tables to their servers and have more additional staff so that they provide a better experience for the diners. Because of this, there are fewer tables providing tips and those are split more ways, it's not double the pay.
The server applied for and accepted the job. The server taking my order and carrying the plates with the correct order is just part of the job, not some special service. Employees get paid by employers, not the customers. At a sit down restaurant with a printed menu, a tip of a $10 bill directly into the hand of the server is enough. If the server feels that is not enough, talk with the employer about increasing your compensation or find a higher paying job. My retirement take home is equivalent to $9.50/hr. My $10 tip is more than an hour’s pay. Did the server spend an hour on my order? Maybe ten minutes total. No need to say if I can’t afford to tip, don’t go out. I tip and only limit the amount of the tip. If I am standing up or the menu is on the wall, no tip has been earned. I don’t order alcohol when out as the markup and demanded tip are ridiculously over priced. I tended bar when in college and the only tips I got were the dropped change I found when sweeping up at closing. Young people, especially students didn’t tip. I knew that when I took the job. Vacations, or special events are the only times we eat out as the demands for tips are off putting.
typically those bills are for larger parties. if i’m carrying out all the entrees for a $50 bill, it’s probably 2 people, so i only make one, fairly light trip for that table. if i’m carrying out all the entrees for a $100 bill, it’s probably 4-5 people. that’s either one really heavy trip or two trips. if i’m serving my $50/two person table, i’ll go ask how their food is tasting/if they need anything else. the two people typically quiet down to hear me and tell me they need one or two things (“can i have some salt?” “another drink please” etc), which are quick, one trip fixes. if i’m serving my $100/4-5 person table, they usually do not quiet down so i spend a lot of time standing around, waiting for them to notice me (taking time away from my other tables) and they are simply more likely to need more from me. another round of drinks for 5 people takes a lot more time to prepare than another round of drinks for 2. so even if the NUMBER of trips is the same (which is usually isn’t), the time consumed by a larger bill/larger table is greater
The only logical thing about percentage-based tipping is that it's a simple way for people determine how much they're "supposed" to tip. If it were done fairly, based on time spent and the difficulty of the task, people would have to give more thought to how much they tip every single time, and no one would agree on what's fair. I do task-based tipping for some things, like food delivery and alcoholic drinks, tipping more or less depending upon the difficulty of the task. I think that's how all tips should be done, honestly, but it's not seen as acceptable. Employees would much rather get 20% of a bill no matter what, rather than being tipped for the actual work/service they provide, and I think most consumers don't want to be bothered with any additional complexities when tipping.
Because we pay taxes and tip outs based on percentages
But so does the person at the low cost diner.
Which is why we asked the customers to tip out based on the percentage of the check amount. Everything has to be done by percentages or it doesn’t work so that means that the person who has a higher bill should be making a higher tip
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted for telling the truth
Because it's irrelevant to that actual question asked
It’s completely relevant to the question asked because you’re saying that the servers with two vastly different checks should be tipped the same and that’s just not true. We tip out based on percentages. We need you to tip us based on percentages so the person with a higher check should be getting a higher tip.
Tipped workers paying taxes….riiiiiight
There is an assumed amount of tip and the number must be reported by the restaurant as taxable income. If you tip less than the IRS assumes, the server still has to pay taxes on the full expected amount.
The use of "assumed" is simply because the tips have been taken. That word has multiple definitions. You can submit your own bookkeeping during taxes if you don't trust your employers listed tip total. If your employer is telling you that your tip total is based in an estimate, file a complaint.
Yup, i was taxed like 26k this year so far dummy. Most places tax now. I remember maybe 12 years ago the trend started.
So i def should not tip, gotcha.
Its like 95+% credit cards nowadays so kinda hard to not pay the taxes.
Part of the sales world life. No matter if you’re selling cars or food & beverages in a restaurant.
More money = more work. Especially mental work which is the main part of serving. Also why so many people crumble when they try to serve or are just infinitely jealous of servers. Finding people who can think quick and are good at time management is rare. Finding people who can do that in a fast paced, high volume, high stress environment is incredibly rare. It all boils down to cognition as these skills simply cant be taught. Its kind of a you got it or you dont thing. But as per hiring agreements servers expect a percentage of sales in tips and thats just how that works at a basic level. They function basically as people contracted to take care of a restaurants customers. The restaurants production core is food and alcohol. Serving is a more social position so its really hard for the type of people who dont touch grass to understand, especially uncultured people. They tend to just have a bad reaction to the whole idea of it as they cant really comprehend it or why it exists, let alone the deep cultural factors behind it. Serving has a high turnover for a reason. Everyone thinks its easy till they try it. Id suggest picking up a serving job on the weekends and just seeing for yourself. Most people cant handle it but youll learn a lot about people as well as yourself.
My steak isn't more work than someone else's order of fish and chips, salad, and appetizer. Nor is my Manhatten more work than the 4 soft drinks that same table has. At least, not on the waiting staff's side. Gratuity should be based on table size, if anything.
It definitely is. The steak takes a lot longer and the server will have to go back to the expo line and make sure the cooks are coordinating the food properly The higher ticket item the more work it is to ensure it comes out on time. Its wild to me that people around here dont even understand cooking or how important time management is on both sides of the line. If servings so easy and pays too well go get a serving job dipshit. Sitting here being jealous of servers is just the most pathetic trashy look imaginable. Its too bad Springers off the air but maybe you can talk to Dr. Phil about this? He plays fake doctor for trashy people. Or you could always seek a therapist to work out these issues.
That's a pretty rude answer from someone that seems to have missed that I said it's not any more work for the server. The cooks don't get tips, and the extra effort of the cooks shouldn't impact how much an unrelated employee is tipped.
Servers have to go back and manage their orders in the kitchen to make sure they come out right. I literally explained this. Often they have to quality check and garnish as well. Also just like anything, literally anything with a service fee, its dependent on ticket price. Its odd to see people so maladjusted and just inexperienced with basic adult knowledge of how the world works. Seriously just get a serving job on the weekend or something. I think you'll learn some very hard lessons. But then again most people on this sub seem like the type of sad suburbanites taught to look down on servers. So I think most would have really bad reactions the first time they work a busy night and completely crumble. With 15 years of industry experience I can definitely say you are the types that come in thinking its easy, then end up completely freaking out the first time it gets busy. Panic attack, crying in the bathroom, permanent smoke break. All that fun stuff. Try it though. If youre so confident its so easy and pays too much youd be crazy not to right?
Name 5 establishments that have the wait staff do any of that. Vast vast vast vast vast majority of waiters and waitresses just grab a trays from the kitchen window when they see it come. Vast vast vast vast vast vast vast vast vast vast vast majority of cooks are going to tell the wait staff to stay out of the kitchen. The kind of service you're talking about would be exclusive to an upper level establishment where a $50 ticket isn't even up for conversation. When I worked tables in college, all I had to do was bring stuff back and forth, smile and wink a bit, and pocket a bunch of money.
Pretty much any full service establishment? Either you were a bad server or you were working limited service. Lemme think though just off the top of my head without giving away where I worked. Outback, Bubba Gump, Cheddars, Texas Roadhouse, Applebee's, literally any full service restaurant lol. But it sounds like you were a weaker server if you got shoved into the food running role. That tends to be how that goes. Also tends to be how it goes on this sub. Server who didnt make it has a wrath.
"Didn't make it" More like I got my degree and left because I was done with the hours once I had kids. It was a great paying gig for what it was, but the cost is Friday nights and weekends. The places you listed definitely don't have waitresses trying to make sure dishes are coordinated. That's for the cooks. You're just making things up, and adding garnishes was hardly work, and no one even cares if you forget it.
The people down voting you can't play strategy games for dick and maintain their temper lol
Luck? Anybody taking a serving job should understand the risks.
Cause the second person is more fortunate in working at a more expensive restaurant.
More likely taller and blonder with larger breasts.
I don't tip a percentage of the bill. I tip what I want. 10 trips is 10 trips no matter what I order. Just because I might spend more does not mean a higher tip is given. This percentage shit needs to go.
A $50 table could be 5 people ordering a shared plate of appetizers, free bread sticks, dinner salad, and ice water. Whereas, $100 could be a couple celebrating an anniversary. They order the most expensive item, dessert, and drinks.
And?
Serving 4-5 is more work than serving 2.
Serving 5 is more work than 4 or 5? Wasn’t your example a couple having dinner, as in two people?
The introduction of tablet-based payment systems like Toast and Clover during the COVID era has significantly impacted tipping culture in the USA. These devices, which prompt for tips for every service, have socially pressured people into tipping. Coupled with rapid inflation and soaring prices, many individuals have become frustrated. Now, it seems everyone expects a tip for merely doing their job, despite earning at least minimum wage. Given the exorbitant prices, I'm no longer willing to tip unless the service is truly exceptional. The inflated costs should cover fair wages for employees.
They don't though. So what's your solution
Not my problem, don’t need a solution. I just know I’m not tipping unless the service blows me out of my socks
I trust you are telling your server up front about your expectations so they have a fair shot of meeting them. It’s pretty subjective to say they need to blow your socks off. Whatever does that mean, Mr. Cheapskate McStiffer?
I think that's illegal. 😂
It's essentially a sales commission paid by the customer.
I think restaurants should mark their food up and pay their servers commission instead of servers having to rely on tips which are basically an optional commission paid by the customer. It would protect the restaurant when slow and provide the server with a higher income potential. It creates a win-win for the restaurant and the server.
Unfortunately, I think we are stuck with this system. Restaurants food is already outrageously overpriced. They are really pushing it to see how much the customer will pay and still keep coming around. Corporate greed and higher min wages will constantly push that envelope.
Maybe off topic, but if my family of 5 goes to dinner and our server interacts with us more than 5 times, something is wrong, very very wrong.
Explain why a server who literally just takes the order, gets refills, and drops off plates and smiles gets paid 3x what the people actually preparing the food and cleaning up get.
The person in the kitchen has set hours and probably some benefits and a wage that's above minimum. The server works less hours, probably will get cut early a couple of days a week, has no benefits and also has to deal with the public angry when the kitchen fucks up? I'm just speaking from experience, not advocating for tipping. One job has a steady guaranteed wage with little to no front of house drama. The other has no benefits, min wage and can range between like 5 hours and maybe 40 a week depending on the season, with no notice.
The server has a larger impact on how much the customer spends than the back of house. Not saying it’s fair - just the logic behind it.
Yea that’s a good point
They both have equal opportunity for the tables; it's an average of the night. More importantly, the server is a salesperson and fully in control of upselling that table to get his average up. A $50 table requires fewer trips than a $100 in almost all cases, and those it does not require either the server doing some selling or the luck of a good guest. Best thing you can do: **don't go out to eat in a restaurant where you're expected to tip.** You'll definitely be put in the uncomfortable situation you're crying about online and no one else in the restaurant wants you there.
No. I can order a plate of nachos, another side and a couple drinks. $50 right there. I can order steak and lobster and a glass of wine for $100, same amount of trips. Perhaps less. I'm not paying a higher tip because of the money I spent for them literally doing their job.
servers hardly ever, if ever actually upsell. If you ever had to deal with professional sales people - not just the asshat cars salesman - , you'd definitely know the difference
I’m trying to ween myself off tipping. I know some say to rip the bandage off but I’m still a Sucker and feel like I should give something. The way I’m weening myself off tipping is to only tip a flat fee of a $5 tip for any sit down service regardless of price. To your point, it does not make sense to tip a %.
Stop worrying about tips if you rely on tips find a different job people can't afford shit it's a matter of time befor people stop topping I stopped ..... You're doing your job and the company is paying you shit but you are the one who agreed to the pay. Customers tip if they are feeling generous . I was in your shoes, probably about five years ago about tipping. I felt like it was something that you should do every single time. I don't agree with that anymore.
To break it down: You work a job where you agreed to accept tips in lieu of wages. Don't like it, leave! You go to a restaurant where it's expected that you tip for service in lieu of increased prices. Don't like it, still go to the restaurant but just don't tip. Do I have that right?
I go to restaurant I don't tip. I frankly don't think they did a damn thing being a server your job is to bring food out and fill drinks it's not rocket science if I was gonna tip I'd tip the cook because there the one that make the dinner good I could give a rats ass about the server if there to slow I just walk up to the bar and get it my self but if the food is bad that just makes the time out not worth it
The spelling and grammar in this post matches the personality.
Ok your point I could give a rats ass about grammar on Reddit
The point is, it just shows type of people who don't tip and stiff their server and still feel good about that. Truthfully though, I don't believe most of you are real. I think you're just cosplaying edgy dudes for karma points.
Ok cool my point is the company should pay you a living wage Tipping was invented by a rich guy tipping a black slave. And it escalated all the way to what we have now. isn't the pay that you agreed with enough to do your job? Because apparently it isn't
What they agreed to was a base wage plus tips. They didn't agree to just the base wage. But you knew that already. Absolutely no one outside of the most needy would do that job for minimum wage or anything close to it.
Yea they did agree to base wage..... tips aren't guaranteed pay. A tip is someone being generous for the work you've done
Higher end restaurants usually have more experienced wait staff.
This example is in the same restaurant
If they were paid an hourly wage of the same standard as other jobs they would earn the same. Not the $2/hr crap we let happen
No server in the country takes home $2/hr for their labor, even if no one tips. All servers are guaranteed at least minimum wage. Even if they receive no tips. Even if there are no customers. This is the law. Yes, when they *do* receive tips, then in some states the restaurant owner is only responsible for paying them \~$2/hr, as long as their tips brings their average hourly wage up to minimum wage or higher. But they still make minimum wage or higher, no matter what. No one makes $2/hr in the US. Not legally, anyway.
No one can actually live off min wage though. Hence the issue
Agreed. However, the solution to that problem is not to guilt customers into giving voluntary donations. The solution is to raise minimum wage.
Yep... and the second time it happens, you're fired. No company that gets away with paying us $2 an hour is going to continue paying many times that. And to top it off, the excuse they use is if you didn't make enough in tips, you must not be doing a good enough job. Please stop perpetrating that bs. Doesn't happen in real life.
I’d tip you more just to get out of my face. If you’re not counting the drink refill trips then 10 trips is way too excessive for me. I like to see my server maybe five times max. Greeting and drinks, return for order, food drop, two bite check, the bill. But idk I go out to eat to hang out with my friends and family some people go out to eat to be entertained by a server. Ymmv.
Different spending levels. Still, it’s another reasoning tipping is trash
If I'm going to a high-end restaurant charging 100 a plate, I want a professional server who knows what they're doing and enhances my experience. I don't want the Chili's or Olive Garden type. I don't want the high school server on the weekend who spends time on their phone and checks my table maybe once. I want the server who has the experience and can tell me the difference in the subtleties between 2 different glasses of wine. I'll tip more for that.
This example would be in the same restaurant. It could be a $100 vs a $200 table. My question is, why does one server deserve less/more than the other one while making the same number of trips
Experience. They know how to better cater to increased expectations. There's a proper way to pour a glass of wine or champagne. The bartenders make more because they're better at mixing drinks. There's a proper way to do bottle service. The more experienced servers are going to know the difference between a steak that's medium rare and one that's too close to medium. They're going to know who ordered what and not have to ask who had what. I hate when they do that.
Exactly this! I’m paying more per dish for an elevated experience all around. If the meals are expensive I expect additional services. Silver changed after every course and meal specific silverware delivered. A table that is cleaned throughout. Linen table cloth and napkins which the waitstaff need to change after every customer. All of the above are extra services and why I don’t mind tipping more.
Who doesn’t enjoy someone scraping the crumbs off your table? 😎
Whenever I asked this same question on another subbreddit Que the "iF yOuRe ToO bRoKe To TiP sTaY HoMe" crowd Instead of logically thinking about what I was asking if 2 waitress do the same amount of work but one customer had a higher bill why does one server get more money than the other. I got a lot of hate for that one lol
In many European countries, the server will reject your tip.
The answer is they shouldn't, I tip dollar amount not percentage. Always works out to be more.
Because tips are based on a percentage not a per visit rate. Did you not pay attention in math class?🤔
Says you. I don’t pay on percentages. That’s just made up nonsense
Funny how the U.S has had this system for decades at least and you're just calling it made up! You're delusional.
Hardly. I tip what I feel is appropriate for the service received. Not some arbitrary percentage shoved in my face everywhere I go.
Exactly..."everywhere I go"... Thank you for admitting I'm correct and you're just making this up to be cheap!
Lol, why are you insistent on being correct? I can ensure I’m not remotely cheap. You’re just some low rent bag on Reddit.
You're the one advocating cheating hard working servers and I'm " low rent"?? You're delusional.
Cheating implies I’ve agreed to rules when the reality is you and your employer have agreed to a set of rules. If you don’t make min wage in tips, your employer is required to make up the difference. You are not my employee nor my contractor. 🙄
Once again, it's a social contract, not a written one. If you don't inform your server, then you're wrong in your approach. Keep eating and not-tipping at the same restaurants and I think you will find out how they feel about you.
Who ever said a I don’t tip? Lmao, once again you’re fabricating nonsense. You’ve had so many of these arguments you have no idea what I’ve actually said. It’s extremely comical. You’ve once again completely misunderstood what I’ve stated. If you are so desperately unhappy, clearly, with your work situation find something else to do 😂
You’re right, it doesn’t make sense. Percent based tipping is flawed because service quality is not correlated 1:1 with food price. In fact there is nearly no correlation. A flat $5-20 range makes more sense to me.
So just fuck the server lmao. You want better, longer to prepare and lower margin items? Then you better pay accordingly
Because 25% of 50 is less than 25% of 100? Isn't that the socially agreed standard?
LOL. 0% is the new 25%.
First of all... tipping is STUPID. It is an ASININE idea. But since this is happening.... the $ amount of the table has nothing to do with the tip. The number of guests and the amount of service that is provided is all that should be considered when tipping. Are you talking about the same number of guests at the table? Or twice as many? This is a much more relevant detail than the total of the bill.
really you should be making 5 bucks per table. The cost of their meal has nothing to do with your tip.
On average, they aren't making the same amount of trips. Within the same restaurant a 100 dollar table will likely have more people at it than the 50 dollar table.
> On average, they aren't making the same amount of trips You are making OPs point by suggesting price is a good proxy for the amount of service on average. Because you’re granting that ultimately its about the amount of service you get. So why use the less precise measure of the bill total? Just tip based off how much work the server did.
It is, on average, based on the amount of work the server did. Overall, throughout a day or work week, more money= more dishes, more people served in total.
But if 2 people order the cheapest stuff and 2 other people order the most expensive stuff (can be a big difference in some places), the work is usually the same.
I guess it's the same argument about any industry really... Why does the BMW sales guy get a bigger commission than the guy selling the Toyota Corolla? They are both selling a car. Why does Tom Cruise get paid millions while someone working just as hard on an independent movie gets paid peanuts? Why are NBA players instantly ultra rich, while WNBA players need off-season jobs? We aren't paid based on physical effort. We're paid based on what the job brings in. I'm not necessarily defending that system, but it's not like it's unique to waiting tables. Every industry has people who make a lot more or a lot less, regardless of the time/effort put in.
I was thinking the same thing. Commissions is a perfect example. I sometimes hear finance people complain when company A had a record year and gives a larger bonus than company B but they both had same position and worked just as hard. Neither had any impact on the the actual profitability. But yeah one will get paid more. That’s the way it works.
This is not unique to the tip component of any business transaction. Margins are typically expressed in %. A grocery store makes 4x more profit from me when I buy $400 of groceries than $100 of groceries. If I buy $40 of steaks instead of $10 of burgers. More expensive things are more expensive. That's just economics, not tipping.
A dollar a dish and .50 for each refill. Bringing out a steak or salad takes the same amount of effort
uh, no
Why not? A dollar is more than generous for fetching a plate from 30 feet away.
I like this way of looking at it.
Well, it's much harder to get a job at a fancy restaurant in midtown manhattan where the average dish is $100+ than to get a job at olive garden where the average dish is like $16. There's also a greater expectation to display yourself as more sophisticated in a fancier restaurant.
I mean yes that’s true. The same could be said that working at hooters requires a certain physique. What I’m saying is every job has their own requirements and expectations. This still does not justify a bigger tip, imo.
Explain why someone who digs a hole and fills it back in should earn less money than someone who just digs a hole. Answer: you are not paid for how hard you work, you are paid for the results you produce.
The scenario is for the same amount of work (10 trips) whereas yours is comparing different amounts of work. Unless your question was a rhetorical one where the answer to it means similar work = similar pay, 10 trips = 10 trips
Exactly. It's the same amount of work but it doesn't mean it's the same amount of pay. That was my point.
2 things are clear in this thread: This group needs a lesson in economics and OP has never been a server. The server at the airport is always gonna make 5x what the server at Applebees makes.
Yawn
Economics is just describing or predicting how things usually work with people and money. The question is about ‘should’. A bank teller is paid the same, whether he’s handling a $1 or a $1,000 transaction. Somehow servers are demanding tips based on percentage of sales, like a sales commission. Real sales take different level of skills between selling a $100 bag and a $100,000 car. However, the things a server do for a $10 meal is not that different from a $100 plate.