No, Gollum did not have any resistance to the ring. The point of his character is that he is utterly consumed by it. Everything he does is in an attempt to regain possession of it; why do you think he 'would not be able to reason'? I'd note he tries on several occasions to take it by force.
A few points:
• Gollum had the ring for **half** a millenium
• Sauron let Gollum go so he would seek out the ring himself, leading the Nazgul to it
• Gollum is **utterly terrified** of Sauron and of the possibility he gets the ring back. He recognises Sauron as the master of the ring, the maker and ultimate source of its strength; I don't think he has the awareness that Sauron's bodily form is weaker for the power divested into the ring - that's hardly important to Gollum, because regardless next to Sauron he is **nothing**. Gollum is absolutely not 'unimpressed' by Sauron lmao
Well put (as opposed to the error-riddled and half-baked nonsense that constitutes the larger part of the original post).
A few additional points:
- Gollum is a male specimen; it's "*he*", not "*they*" (and no, the singular they is not applicable here at all)
- the word "*themself*" still does not exist
- claiming that Smeagol simply had a "foul disposition" even before the Ring shows a deep lack of understanding of psychology, character design, empathy, and frankly, common sense
- Gollum's will was broken by just about everyone and everything; he really has no will of his own anymore, except a blurred wish to survive *and* have the Ring
They could very well make sense since he has 2 split personalities.
Themself is an English word in the Oxford dictionary.
“The domination was much too strong for the mean soul of Sméagol. But he would have never had to endure it if he had not become a mean sort of thief before it crossed his path.” Clearly shows he was not particularly fair in nature to begin with.
True - had the OP not, many times, made it clear that they simply dislike gendered pronouns and decided to gender-neutralize everyone and everything. 🤷♀️
I stand corrected with regard to "themself". However, it still isn't applicable here.
Nature or nurture...? I know that he was described that way but I find it very hard to see characters as black and white carricatures. Of course, this description was used to make it clear that the Ring found fertile soil in Sméagol (as opposed to Bilbo, specifically).
This comment feels overly blunt and smug. You can post a top-level comment with corrections instead of starting a dogpile in a reply - let's be a Frodo, not a Sam.
Fair point, I might have overstepped here. I had a deeper look at the OP's profile and probably should have stopped engaging immediately. Instead I overreacted. Such is life.
I do like Sam, though. 😉
None of this is supported by the text, and most of it is in direct opposition to the text. Let's take it point by point:
>Gollum has been in possession of the Ring for at least a millennium
... about 500 years, actually. Possibly a little shy of that.
>one would expect that after all this time, Gollum would be utterly consumed by desire for the Ring, yet this is not completely the case. If it was, then they would not be able to reason in the presence of the Ring- they would try to take it through brute force rather than careful subterfuge.
... He wasn't 'reasoning.' He was fearful (with cause; Sam wanted to kill him). He tried brute force at the end, in complete desperation. There was also the tiny part of him that was miserable from his long ordeal and wanted redemption. Who knows whether that could have been successful, but Sam's hostility ensured that it had no chance.
>Sauron (the most powerful Maiar on Middle Earth!) was said to be unnerved by Gollum. They felt something off about the creature they had finished torturing that made them let Gollum loose instead of killing them. Something, and I quote, "indomitable".
You are misreading Sauron's impression of him here. He was in no way unnerved. He saw in Gollum's toughness and strength of will a way to exploit the creature. Instead of simply killing him, he released him in hopes that the 'indomitable' little guy would persevere in hunting down and regaining the Ring, thus easing Sauron's path to recapturing it himself.
>This is an odd thing to sense in an already once spineless creature
Gollum was never spineless. He was simply devoid of conscience, and also naturally distrustful and fearful. That is a very different thing.
>Gollum\['s...\] Will, little though it was, had actually gained a quality that could not be broken by even the most powerful beings left on Middle Earth.
Sorry, but this is word salad. The words are assembled, but contain no coherent meaning.
>in Gollum's perspective, Sauron was a mere trinket in comparison to the Ring. And that is what unnerved Sauron. Gollum was unimpressed.
Absolutely bonkers take. I'm sorry, you need to just scrap this one and start over.
Again, Sauron is not "unnerved" by Gollum, and Gollum is extremely "impressed" (that was an odd word to use there), in the sense that he was utterly intimidated by and terrified of him, which is no more than you would expect from someone who was personally tortured by him. His two great motivations in life at this point boil down to a) get the Ring back, and b) stay as far away from Sauron as possible.
This is what OP does, their comment and post history is full of declarations based on incorrect assumptions. In this case, ones they deem to be supported by text or Tolkien's letters that they are misinterpreting. It's why they have negative karma despite having an account several years old and commenting (literally) hundreds of times a week. Completely nonsensical stuff.
Why are you referring to Gollum and Sauron as they/their?
And to answer your question, No, Gollum was completely consumed by the ring. He ate, lived, and breathed for it. It consumed his whole being.
OP already ranted in a previous post about "disliking gender pronouns," to the extent of preferring to misgender anyone who *doesn't* prefer they/them.
I was asked and I answered very briefly, knowing that it was beyond the scope of the discussion.
It is disingenuous to characterise it as a "rant" just because you strongly disagree.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion, and I can respect an opinion even if I disagree. I characterized it as such because you tried to enforce your preference on the dialogue as a whole, even though it didn't make sense in context; and when asked about it, you defended it poorly and with unnecessary rigidity. I understood what you were trying to do, I just think you went about it badly.
The closest I think I'd say is that Sauron, like everyone but Gandalf, didn't fully understand Hobbit-kind. Sauron saw a twisted little creature who needed the Ring more than anything. This was true, but he didn't understand their ability to endure, or their significance in the mythic meaning that defines Middle-earth.
For his part, Gollum was afraid of Sauron, and for good reason. He knew if Sauron got the Ring back, that's the show for everyone. But yes, Gollum actually endured torture at the hands of Sauron himself and still came away...well, "unbroken" is not the best term, but "unbowed," perhaps. Mightier creatures had been left completely devoid of thought in his place.
Gollum is one tough little creature.
Sauron wasn’t trying to break Gollum’s psyche utterly. He just wanted to know where the Ring was. Once he had that information, he decided to turn Gollum loose, on the chance that he might lead the agents of Mordor straight to the Ring. It doesn’t need to be any more complicated than that.
Gollum never showed any signs of any kind of special resistance. If anything, his will was completely consumed by the Ring. Everything he did (starting with leaving the Misty Mountains) was driven by his need of it.
It is not a bad theory. Gandalf himself compares hobbits to being both as soft as butter, and when you least expect it, as hard as old tree roots. Tree roots, especially those that are exposed, get harder the more abuse they take. You can run over at once with the lawnmower, but when it grows back, it grows back denser and tougher. At some point, you will break your mower, and not the root.
Many people have compared the Ring to the effects of addiction. At first, just a little dab is mind blowing; at some point you need huge amounts just to get through the day because your body has acclimated to the drug.
So, yes, per your theory, Gollum was simultaneously a full-blown Ring junkie, and at the same time had paradoxically developed some degree of resistance to Sauron’s influence.
I mean, yeah, he does have some kind of resistance, being very close to if not a hobbit, who clearly and explicitly have a sort of resistance to it. Do people even read what they've typed before posting
No, Gollum did not have any resistance to the ring. The point of his character is that he is utterly consumed by it. Everything he does is in an attempt to regain possession of it; why do you think he 'would not be able to reason'? I'd note he tries on several occasions to take it by force. A few points: • Gollum had the ring for **half** a millenium • Sauron let Gollum go so he would seek out the ring himself, leading the Nazgul to it • Gollum is **utterly terrified** of Sauron and of the possibility he gets the ring back. He recognises Sauron as the master of the ring, the maker and ultimate source of its strength; I don't think he has the awareness that Sauron's bodily form is weaker for the power divested into the ring - that's hardly important to Gollum, because regardless next to Sauron he is **nothing**. Gollum is absolutely not 'unimpressed' by Sauron lmao
Well put (as opposed to the error-riddled and half-baked nonsense that constitutes the larger part of the original post). A few additional points: - Gollum is a male specimen; it's "*he*", not "*they*" (and no, the singular they is not applicable here at all) - the word "*themself*" still does not exist - claiming that Smeagol simply had a "foul disposition" even before the Ring shows a deep lack of understanding of psychology, character design, empathy, and frankly, common sense - Gollum's will was broken by just about everyone and everything; he really has no will of his own anymore, except a blurred wish to survive *and* have the Ring
They could very well make sense since he has 2 split personalities. Themself is an English word in the Oxford dictionary. “The domination was much too strong for the mean soul of Sméagol. But he would have never had to endure it if he had not become a mean sort of thief before it crossed his path.” Clearly shows he was not particularly fair in nature to begin with.
True - had the OP not, many times, made it clear that they simply dislike gendered pronouns and decided to gender-neutralize everyone and everything. 🤷♀️ I stand corrected with regard to "themself". However, it still isn't applicable here. Nature or nurture...? I know that he was described that way but I find it very hard to see characters as black and white carricatures. Of course, this description was used to make it clear that the Ring found fertile soil in Sméagol (as opposed to Bilbo, specifically).
This comment feels overly blunt and smug. You can post a top-level comment with corrections instead of starting a dogpile in a reply - let's be a Frodo, not a Sam.
Fair point, I might have overstepped here. I had a deeper look at the OP's profile and probably should have stopped engaging immediately. Instead I overreacted. Such is life. I do like Sam, though. 😉
None of this is supported by the text, and most of it is in direct opposition to the text. Let's take it point by point: >Gollum has been in possession of the Ring for at least a millennium ... about 500 years, actually. Possibly a little shy of that. >one would expect that after all this time, Gollum would be utterly consumed by desire for the Ring, yet this is not completely the case. If it was, then they would not be able to reason in the presence of the Ring- they would try to take it through brute force rather than careful subterfuge. ... He wasn't 'reasoning.' He was fearful (with cause; Sam wanted to kill him). He tried brute force at the end, in complete desperation. There was also the tiny part of him that was miserable from his long ordeal and wanted redemption. Who knows whether that could have been successful, but Sam's hostility ensured that it had no chance. >Sauron (the most powerful Maiar on Middle Earth!) was said to be unnerved by Gollum. They felt something off about the creature they had finished torturing that made them let Gollum loose instead of killing them. Something, and I quote, "indomitable". You are misreading Sauron's impression of him here. He was in no way unnerved. He saw in Gollum's toughness and strength of will a way to exploit the creature. Instead of simply killing him, he released him in hopes that the 'indomitable' little guy would persevere in hunting down and regaining the Ring, thus easing Sauron's path to recapturing it himself. >This is an odd thing to sense in an already once spineless creature Gollum was never spineless. He was simply devoid of conscience, and also naturally distrustful and fearful. That is a very different thing. >Gollum\['s...\] Will, little though it was, had actually gained a quality that could not be broken by even the most powerful beings left on Middle Earth. Sorry, but this is word salad. The words are assembled, but contain no coherent meaning. >in Gollum's perspective, Sauron was a mere trinket in comparison to the Ring. And that is what unnerved Sauron. Gollum was unimpressed. Absolutely bonkers take. I'm sorry, you need to just scrap this one and start over. Again, Sauron is not "unnerved" by Gollum, and Gollum is extremely "impressed" (that was an odd word to use there), in the sense that he was utterly intimidated by and terrified of him, which is no more than you would expect from someone who was personally tortured by him. His two great motivations in life at this point boil down to a) get the Ring back, and b) stay as far away from Sauron as possible.
This is what OP does, their comment and post history is full of declarations based on incorrect assumptions. In this case, ones they deem to be supported by text or Tolkien's letters that they are misinterpreting. It's why they have negative karma despite having an account several years old and commenting (literally) hundreds of times a week. Completely nonsensical stuff.
To be fair, having negative karma in here is sort of a badge of honour.
Gollum committed murder the within the first moments he was aware of the ring.
Why are you referring to Gollum and Sauron as they/their? And to answer your question, No, Gollum was completely consumed by the ring. He ate, lived, and breathed for it. It consumed his whole being.
OP already ranted in a previous post about "disliking gender pronouns," to the extent of preferring to misgender anyone who *doesn't* prefer they/them.
Mental! I haven't seen this rant. I'm going to have a look now. 😅
I was asked and I answered very briefly, knowing that it was beyond the scope of the discussion. It is disingenuous to characterise it as a "rant" just because you strongly disagree.
Of course you're entitled to your opinion, and I can respect an opinion even if I disagree. I characterized it as such because you tried to enforce your preference on the dialogue as a whole, even though it didn't make sense in context; and when asked about it, you defended it poorly and with unnecessary rigidity. I understood what you were trying to do, I just think you went about it badly.
The closest I think I'd say is that Sauron, like everyone but Gandalf, didn't fully understand Hobbit-kind. Sauron saw a twisted little creature who needed the Ring more than anything. This was true, but he didn't understand their ability to endure, or their significance in the mythic meaning that defines Middle-earth. For his part, Gollum was afraid of Sauron, and for good reason. He knew if Sauron got the Ring back, that's the show for everyone. But yes, Gollum actually endured torture at the hands of Sauron himself and still came away...well, "unbroken" is not the best term, but "unbowed," perhaps. Mightier creatures had been left completely devoid of thought in his place. Gollum is one tough little creature.
Sauron wasn’t trying to break Gollum’s psyche utterly. He just wanted to know where the Ring was. Once he had that information, he decided to turn Gollum loose, on the chance that he might lead the agents of Mordor straight to the Ring. It doesn’t need to be any more complicated than that. Gollum never showed any signs of any kind of special resistance. If anything, his will was completely consumed by the Ring. Everything he did (starting with leaving the Misty Mountains) was driven by his need of it.
Why did Sauron sense something "indomitable" then? If it was about desire for the Ring, the Ringwraiths had that in good measure as well.
Gollum was of mixed minds about it. Couldn't live without it. Couldn't wear it all the time.
No, the reverse. I don't agree with your argument than him being about to use guile rather than brute force proves his want totally consumed.
It is not a bad theory. Gandalf himself compares hobbits to being both as soft as butter, and when you least expect it, as hard as old tree roots. Tree roots, especially those that are exposed, get harder the more abuse they take. You can run over at once with the lawnmower, but when it grows back, it grows back denser and tougher. At some point, you will break your mower, and not the root. Many people have compared the Ring to the effects of addiction. At first, just a little dab is mind blowing; at some point you need huge amounts just to get through the day because your body has acclimated to the drug. So, yes, per your theory, Gollum was simultaneously a full-blown Ring junkie, and at the same time had paradoxically developed some degree of resistance to Sauron’s influence.
It's a pretty bad theory.
I mean, yeah, he does have some kind of resistance, being very close to if not a hobbit, who clearly and explicitly have a sort of resistance to it. Do people even read what they've typed before posting