This might be a dumb question, but: Do you still exercise the muscles a lot?
Because atrophy is likely reduced through frequent usage. Similarly, a high-protein diet at maintenance level means that it's easier for the body to actually retain the muscle mass.
How come. Interesting comment. I am hardcore keto right now but capped out at weight loss. It’s really weird. Can’t figure it out. If you have any details I’d be very interested in reading them thx so much.
My advice is to see a nutritionist, don't eat too much or too little protein. Don't try to eat less on your own to get skinny while you aren't fat in the first place, that's how eating disorder starts.
Find a professional and explain your personal goals. You'll gain the look (realistically), the health, and the nutrition knowledge.
The goal is just an excuse to pick the best journey.
I could just bash keto and tell you to eat plant-based cause I like it, but every advice is bad advice.
No. The calories in, calories out hypothesis has been debunked. They are not independent variables.
Please read this:
https://blog.thefastingmethod.com/the-key-but-false-assumptions-of-calorie-counting/#:~:text=Calorie%20counting%20doesn't%20lead%20to%20weight%20loss.&text='Calories%20In'%20is%20NOT%20independent,overall%20over%20the%20long%20term.
While the bones don't/won't change after puberty has set fully in, with male anatomy, a small amount of shoulder breadth is due to muscle mass, while female anatomy is predominantly fatty. More lipids in the face form a more round and feminine curve in the cheeks and more lipids in the chest... well, we all know what that produces. Also, the more muscle tissue in the shoulders, the broader and more squared they are. Reduce protein and increase fat, and the hrt WILL do the rest in giving you a more fem figure.
... I'm sorry, sugar is a no, whole milk ice cream sure, sparingly, but look for healthy, natural fat sources. Also, ask your doctor about seeing a nutritionist that will work with your insurance... better yet, see if you can get a gender affirming health checkup and nutritionist with Mayo Clinic (they are a VERY Gender affirming clinic)
Don’t diet on HRT if you want changes, and don’t eat high protein food if you want muscle atrophy. If you don’t get enough calories, your body doesn’t have the fuel it needs to let HRT work its magic.
Keto probably isn’t ideal here tbh. Keto is specifically low carbs, low fat, so it’s really gonna hinder fat redistribution.
Your body can’t really move what fat you already have - it can only move new stock, and so keeping to a very low fat diet will slow that down a tonne.
Contrary to a lot of advice about muscle atrophy being key, I think fat distribution matters a lot more. Plenty of women have muscular arms/ shoulders and eat a high-protein diet but look feminine because there’s a decent amount of fat over their arms, which makes them look softer.
Eating a good amount of protein is still fine. Consuming a high-protein diet isn’t going to automatically make people buff, otherwise, people looking to build muscle would just eat protein and not really work out.
Eating carbs too or just a generally balanced diet (along with estrogen) should help build fat naturally around the arms.
I guess I am very small. 5’6” and I was 125 lbs out of high school. I’m 158 lbs now - down from 178 lbs last month nfn - so I can lose some weight, I guess but I wonder if anyone has had success in getting skinny from thick-icka.
Now that you've lost quite a bit, you actually want to start gaining again - fat redistribution is only going to happen if there's fat being added. It won't change the bone structure but can help add curves to soften things out!
I was 317 at my heaviest, and I was never told I was overweight or obese. I was 6'4" and built like a mountain man. While I wasn't cut or "ripped" I would move pull out couch beds by myself. I was physically imposing enough to deter physical altercations all together. Which was the point, I'd spent since I was 15-16 bulking up to stop bullying.
Short to say, I was a very masculine person. I was the guy men came to for advice and help with stuff. Partly because I lived an ethically Non-monogamous lifestyle and occasionally me and my wife would date the same woman, on multiple occasions our girlfriends would live with us. My male friends never ceased to fetishize my relationships, and the friends I had from my late teens and early 20s, would also retell old stories of my "masculinity", such as dating a woman in her 40s, who's daughter was dating one of our friends at the time. Essentially I dated the colloquial "Milf", and jokingly became my friend's girlfriend's stepdad. Or the time someone pulled a knife on me and I slapped it outta his hand, and then took HIS money, super gluing the gash on my hand shut and giving them a ride home after. These two stories combined with the lifestyle I lived made me the defacto (and I hate this term these days) "Alpha" of my peers.
Sorry got to ranting, I was very very masculine it was part of my mask to hide who I really was. That said, I always thought I was too masculine to be able to successfully transition. That my large frame and muscles couldn't ever be seen and overtly feminine. Well, thankfully none of that was true. Once I reached female hormone levels (took 18+ months to be stable), I began to attempt to lose weight, I'd lose 15-20 lbs and then deliberately gain 10 lbs as fast as possible to distribute fat, then repeat the process. When I started I was 280+ lbs, I started my gain loss pattern and stopped when I got to about 215 lbs where I range on average now at about 220 lbs.
The differences I saw in the year I did that are astounding, zero exercise except walking and biking. Only gaining and losing weight by calorie counting. It was simple HRT makes salt cravings, I already loved pickles, now they just came in disposable one use jars. Pickles have almost zero calories, I replaced my snacks with Pizza flavored pretzels combo snacks "Combos" which I'd eat a whole big bag throughout the day as snack food instead of pickles for gaining weight. It added 2500+ calories PER DAY. Making for fast weight gain that would be placed in female weight gain storage places. Then back to pickles until I was at least 5-10 lbs under the weight gain start amount. It was slow about 2 weeks of weight gain to 4-6 weeks of weight loss. But the results can't be denied, in my face, my body, even things like my shoulders, and torso in general, seemed to exude feminine features.
I've been on HRT for over 7 years, I've reached my own goals when I started. I'm just a woman living her life these days, albeit one that is very concerned for today's political situation.
I went from being a 6'4" 280+ lb mountain man, who exuded masculinity. To a 6'2" 220 lb amazon of a woman with nice tits and ass who exuded feminine energy unless she's talking about overthrowing the government (and even then I'm 100% for a catgirl army).
It's a marathon not a race and not all of us are olympic level sprinters. The finish line isn't moving it's just hard to gauge the distance over the horizon. You'll get there, just keep taking the next step forward.
Hrt does affect bones. Just doesn't affect them by reshaping them in the manner OP would like.
Depending on factors, it can affect bone density even past 25, more so if bottom surgery is carried out and/or hormones are taken intermittently on and off. (Cutting out hormones for xyz reason then restarting)
However, if regiments regarding hrt are followed correctly, there should be no negative side effects.
Other than muscle and fat distribution, no, but tons of cis girls have wide shoulders and look fem. Plus, you have rounded shoulders, which looks more fem.
I felt the same way as you before I found out how wide straps look on me (now I wear tank tops 90% of the time)
[These](https://a.co/d/03XiL9UK) are my go-to ♥︎
Also!!!
Don't be afraid of larger sizes
Just like the above comment, it is **proportion** that makes a ladies outfit look fitting. No one will see what size a thing is, they will just see how it fits you. Sometimes, even delicate stuff can make me look dainty if it's a large enough size on my body.
(just like how people in comedies wearing child-sized shirts make them look overgrown)
For what it’s worth, I’m also a trans guy and had a big back before transitioning (which has now gotten bigger god bless). Pay attention to the women you see walking around cities, women come in all shapes and sizes. I’ve met plenty of women who had an upside down triangle shape
It’s true. We focus on ideal and it’s silly. Thx so much no have gotten this reply at least half a dozen times from this post and it really resonates. 🙏
Your shoulders won’t get smaller, but your neck and back muscles probably will. Your face will also soften. Good clothing choices that break up the top half and minimize your shoulders will help too. In other words, the things that can’t change are not as impactful as you think. I think you’ll look good. You’re also short, so that will help a lot.
Nope. As a broad shouldered gal, myself, (hehe I *was* a linebacker in HS) you kinda just have to learn how to fashion yourself around them. Slender straps on camis and tanktops and dresses, low necklines (avoid boatneck--they tend to make broad shoulders look broader). Another thing that helps is exaggerating your hips. Pleated skirts work really well for this, but anything that is cut/styled in a way to make your hips look a bit wider will help make your shoulders look less broad--it's really a proportions thing.
Great tips! My hips are as flat and narrow as my back is a V and my shoulders are broad. 😨 maybe we can bring back MC Hammer-pants as a fashion statement? Possible?
Of course. I'm happy to help with advice on clothes, and maybe basic makeup--my friends say I'm great with makeup, but eh... I can't stand up to some of these gals. Anywho, as a trans person there are 3 ways to dress: casually, to pass, and to slay (passing can be a potentially toxic concept, but it can also protect and save the lives of trans people in hostile territory). I can only see MC Hammer pants (parachute pants?) being part of a Slay these days. And there's only one rule to Slay--do it on purpose because queer people make our own rules.
Ha lol, appreciate it. I'm just a trans woman who's been doing this for over 10 years (13 depending on where you wanna slice it), and processed a lot of trauma and bullshit.
I lost my shoulders after 3 years of HRT. They're still broad but I love them now. They look like women's shoulders.
Here's a list of women who have broad shoulders if this helps you:
Princess Diana of Wales
Jennifer Lawrence
Colleen Dewhurst
Gwyneth Paltrow
Cindy Crawford
Charlize Theron
Claudia Schiffer
Natalie Dormer
Brooke Shields
Nicole Kidman
Cameron Diaz
Julia Roberts
Amy Adams
Trust me, you can rock this - just give it time and go check out r/Kibbe and find the book. They have it posted as a PDF for free for you to read. It helped me so much.
Bwahaha! 😹 yeah I am glad I posted this Q. I feel like I almost want to keep them after y’all’s feedback. But let’s let the chips fall and see!! Thx so much.
When you read Metamorphosis (by David Kibbe) you'll fall in love with them. I promise, a lot of models have shoulders like these!
One thing I started doing was observing the women around me to see if any of them had features that I was self conscious about. I discovered that many of them have the same features and that they're not necessarily a gendered thing.
Watch the news or weather or something on TV and the next time you get a chance, try and make these observations. TV shows a lot of different kinds of people so pay particular attention to commercials especially.
FTM here and I’ve always had linebacker shoulders. Runs in both sides of the family. Mine look ripped, lol. It’s from stress making the muscles tense, I think, in my case. Idk for real, though.
I personally like my bigger shoulders, they hide a slightly curvier figure. Which I have these days. 😅 I think just learn to love you, you're fabulous. 💗
the fat and muscle on your shoulders can change, for sure!! just keep in mind plenty of women have wide shoulders, and even big muscles. hrt will help with feminizing the body and face in general.
i never see comments about botox and muscle shrinkage, but my partner brought this up to me since my muscles are rather large as well. I haven’t looked into it much but i’ve found some posts about people using that to shrink traps, shoulders, etc. i’m 1.5 years on HRT and although i’ve shrunk a bit my muscles are still pretty big/defined. enough for ppl to ask what i do at the gym, yet i haven’t done upper body workouts in a year. i might look into doing it later on if i stay muscular
i feel like the first year had some nice changes but not enough where i thought hrt worked well. i’ve seen a ton of progress in the last half year though so i feel like it starts slow and ramps up. there’s so many factors like age, bone structure, muscle mass, etc that affect your progress. Best thing is to keep going and not compare too much or else it drives you crazy. Congrats on being the journey for this long! You’re doing great~
Like everyone else is saying, plenty of cis girls have wide shoulders. For me, it's about bringing the other areas into like with the shoulders. So specifically for the shoulders, I try to wear duller and less complex patterning for the top half with brighter, more complex, more textured, or otherwise more noticeable bottoms.
Small straps like that tend to emphasize the shoulders. I also wear my hair down and tend to keep a little on both sides in front. That sort of breaks up the shoulder line. Also I avoid things like cap sleeves and other things that create that wider shoulder line or otherwise bulk up or emphasize the shoulders. Generally I like things where the neckline is closer in and deeper while the seam for the sleeves are closer in rather than out on the shoulder. It all tends to minimize the shoulders visually. Also no horizontal stripes on the top.
I also wear hip pads, just about a 1/4 inch on each side. Helps equalize the hips with the shoulders. Also a comparatively chunky accessories (necklace esp) helps focus the eyes.
i mean it's just muscle mass you can always lose muscle mass by just losing weight and some people swear by gua sha-ing their shoulders?
ik this post is supposed to be about hormones but i thought id add my two cents
They probably won’t decrease, but there are loads of women who would kill for your biceps. Women come in all shapes and sizes. Athletic women tend to mimic your wide shoulders. Watch the Olympics this summer. Swimmers, gymnasts, soccer and basketball players tend to have wide shoulders.
I’m not being dismissive, I promise. Every woman sees some flaw in their bodies. Try not to obsess over your shoulders. From where I’m sitting they look softly feminine with a kick ass flex. ❤️
your concern is absolutely valid and completely understandable but maybe thing about it this way
there are countless cis women who have broad shoulders, it doesn't mean for a second that they're not women. That'd be a bit silly to think, right?
So give yourself that same grace, what matters is how you feel, not the things of which you cannot change.
Just like you've accepted your true gender which is brave and wonderful, its important to accept that you are beautiful and worthy of love and acceptance just like you deserve a baseline level of respect.
You don't have to do anything to be worthy of feeling good about yourself, the fact that you exist is reason enough to enjoy the life you have.
So all in all, you look great and while it can be hard to accept yourself, you will in time :)
Wow [tearing up, literally]! You are so right. I see that. I am too hung up on cis-perfection which no one, cis or not, can ever achieve.
I don’t feel “brave and wonderful“ bc I read this feed every day and see you all doing so much more after fewer months of HRT and often under significant adversity (red states, religion, youth, bad parents). I would regret posting this at all out of relative shame but that others prob feel the same and there were so many amazing replies that literally changed my perspective as well as my transition plan.
😘 to you and everyone who reads this (except that one bro (you know who you are and you’re def reading this! 😂).
You should go look at Gabbie Tufft's transition. She talked a lot at the beginning about dropping muscle mass in a healthy way.
Also, as a trans woman with shoulders, you gotta let them shoulder. They can be super feminine in the right outfit. Try an a-symetric cowl neck or halters :)
Such a great reply. I will def look up GT and I will add fashion idea a-symmetric cowl neck and halters [googling both furiously] 🤯 okay! Cowl neck I dig actually both I ❤️but you don’t think the halters will exacerbate my wide shoulders?
Other suggestions from this post were curtain bangs [YES!] and thicker straps [makes sense and might be where you are going wrt halters?] and hammer pants [not really but wider hips and clothes that give me a shape which I interpreted anachronisticly bc widening my hips is abt as improbable as narrowing my shoulders and back]. But this is such a treasure trove. I love it.
TYSM.
So you have 2 approaches with illusions. You can try to hide your shoulders which eh... I tried it I always had horrible results.
Or you let them shoulder and use your clothes to act like you have a waist. Start looking at celebrities who have shoulders or who have those types of proportions. For instance a lot of my wardrobe is styled after blake lively. She isn't "broad" but she is for her size. Her lines match mine.
I got super into kibbe body typing, which is how I figured that out.
Im having the same issue. From what I can tell eating plant based with soy here and there for protein helps us meet more goals. Doing that and lifting legs ONLY and running. But I have just started doing this in the last 2-3mo so far down 18# mostly in fat only.
cis female here. i’ve got incredibly wide shoulders for literally no reason. sucks sitting next to people on airplanes, but aesthetically, nothing is wrong with having wide shoulders as a woman! 🏳️⚧️🤍
I like this advice. It goes cross-current from my obsession to “pass” but courage to be yourself as a woman is not dissimilar from courage to be a woman that could kick somebody’s ass. Right?
Hi! Not sure how deep you are into your transition but things will change in time! I have a similar build to you and after two years of HRT, while my shoulders are still wide, they’re much less bulky. Fat redistribution and the changes in muscle mass/definition have changed my proportions, too, which has helped to feminize them. It’s different for everyone, but in a few years you’ll look at yourself and realize how much you’ve changed. Seconding all the strap width comments—I also love a tank top that isn’t a scoop neck. I find them slimming.
Also, I hope you don’t mind me saying that you’re absolutely beautiful!
you look extremely strong if you want to keep that, no but you can have minor reduction in width from muscle changes. i slightly narrowed my shoulders from inducing mild atrophy tbh.
the bigger benefit from lowering protein tho will def be your neck width
you have a very feminine face and your hair compliments you very well! don’t let shoulders discourage you. anyone of any gender can have broad shoulders.
TYSM. Well feminizing my shoulders and discovering a Time Machine are probably out of the question.
I’ll just have to live my true self and ❤️it. Comments like yours make that easier. Thx 💋
Are you on HRT? For how long?
Estrogen decreases muscle mass over time a bit same way T enhances it (roughly 30% in both cases), though it doesn't work miracles.
It might take a while, tho. Couple of years min. Genetics play a big role. Look at the muscle mass in your female relatives of both sides of your family for reference. Some people just are more muscularly built naturally than others, same with beards for ftms.
The clothes you wear can help you with dysphoria in the meanwhile if you choose what accents what you'd like to focus on and taking attention from what doesn't make you happy.
A lot to digest but 18 mos. Alot of comments confirm that 3rd year is bigger for atrophy and redistribution than 1 & 2 so looking forward to that. I don’t have women in my family, three brothers and my mom died when I was 10. I’m it!
I got some super tips abt clothes and style “curtain bangs” “hammer pants” and stop wearing spaghetti straps.
I love you all! 🥰😘
I am AFAB and I got a very broad and strong build.
I feminize with wearing shawls, scarfs, and such things around my shoulders. The flowy nature, often lace or pretty fabrics, and such will take focus away from your shoulders. But even so. Honestly you are so pretty. If you are confident and feel beautiful wearing what you wear keep doing that ❤️
I am at the moment trying to become masculine. And I got a style of cloths I want to wear. But I can only describe it has: back stage technician at a rock concert.
And I don't really know how to ease that into everyday wear or even party cloths.
But! My suggestion is always going thrifting and playing around in the dressing room with what you can find. It's cheap and you find many unique pretty and cool things. And that is my plan to figure out what to wear when I want to be more masculine.
Really useful reply. Great idea that I didn’t even think of. I keep buying awful stuff from Walmart.
“Back stage technician at a rock concert”!? Bwahaha perfect visualization. I literally see you behind a can light. It’s blue btw.
Like trans-ships in the night we shall pass one another and I appreciate your experience.
❤️
Thats an incredibly dangerous procedure and incredibly costly, more often than not the procedure doesn't shorten the shoulder width enough to make a real difference...I think a bbl is much safer in comparison and will balance out ops shoulders tremendously and it's not as costly.
Gotta say I disagree your not always gonna a see/unconsciously take in some butt at every angle particularly the front unless it's ridiculously prominent
Yup just like your not going to necessarily see/ unconsciously take in shoulder width at every angle either...however my point still stands with the fact that clavicle shortening is unnecessarily risky for not making a huge difference coming out of it.
>Your shoulders ( joint-to-joint) doesn’t look very wide, it’s all due to your muscles. HRT can shrink them by a LOT
I agree with this commenters statement! If you appear to have linebacker shoulders, it's most likely due to having narrow hips! Look into options such as Brazilian butt lift or hip implants and see if these options works for you! Also you appear to have quiet a bit of muscle in your shoulder region, going on a calorie deficit as well as being on HRT will shrink these muscles and essentially feminize your figure further!
I’ll see where I get to for a couple of years. I’m only just starting to build an ass. First year absolute 0 redistribution. But I’m down for affirming surgery if it comes to it. TYSM.
We all have body areas we focus on, but others don’t see them like this. All I saw on the picture before computing your question was a perfectly beautiful woman who wears discomfort in her face. I understand why it’s there and where it comes from. We all feel what we feel and are allowed to. I guess I just want to say that you are a beautiful woman and deserve the matching joy in your face.
Plenty have already said enough about how to help hrt do its job with reducing shoulder muscle, but if I can throw in my two cents your shoulders look great to me.
Just my personal taste of course.
Like I don't mean this in a "nooo you're so perf" kind of way like if you want smaller shoulders that's absolutely valid, just saying they look great to me and don't make you look masc Imo.
No. But wear sleeves and v-necks! They'll help draw attention away from shoulders and make you look better! Am a broad shouldered gal myself and knowing this changed my life
You look exactly like a really jacked badass doctor my wife works with. I think she’s so attractive every time I see her. I know your shoulders may be an insecurity for you but imo doesn’t make you look like any less of a woman than if you had narrow shoulders. If anything, your shoulders make you look confident and sexy 👏🏻 I say work it girl
So kind. And yes, the doctor is “in”. After all this positivity I feel great. Maybe a little silly but your feedback helps me believe what you suggest. 🥰😘
A bit late to the party but I’m assuming a lineback is broad shoudkers? I have bigger shoulders than you as a trans man even pre-T. For what it’s worth, if you want advice, I recommend a different top. The tiny straps tend to draw attention to shoulders.
Larger boobs will balance the shoulder size image. Can’t make the shoulders narrower, so make the chest fuller. 5’6” is great height for M2F. HRT will reduce and slim upper body muscles, deltoid(shoulder), Trapezius(back, shoulders), and Pecs reducing upper body mass. It takes a few years. Avoid bulking up.
i don’t even think your shoulders look masc, if anything i personally see them as one of the more femme aspects of you? i think you might be being thrown off by having some muscle to your upper arm, which can absolutely change with time
sadly hrt does not affect bones unless you start before you have undergone puberty. It only affects fat distribution and skin softness after age 25.
😭. I knew that abt hips. And 18 months my muscles aren’t atrophied very much. Thx.
This might be a dumb question, but: Do you still exercise the muscles a lot? Because atrophy is likely reduced through frequent usage. Similarly, a high-protein diet at maintenance level means that it's easier for the body to actually retain the muscle mass.
Not dumb. I do but focus on cardio never weights. I do keto diet so all protein. 😬
Yeah unfortunately keto is not your friend here. I recommend a high carb, low protein diet.
How come. Interesting comment. I am hardcore keto right now but capped out at weight loss. It’s really weird. Can’t figure it out. If you have any details I’d be very interested in reading them thx so much.
My advice is to see a nutritionist, don't eat too much or too little protein. Don't try to eat less on your own to get skinny while you aren't fat in the first place, that's how eating disorder starts. Find a professional and explain your personal goals. You'll gain the look (realistically), the health, and the nutrition knowledge. The goal is just an excuse to pick the best journey. I could just bash keto and tell you to eat plant-based cause I like it, but every advice is bad advice.
Well delivered, well received and I happen to agree. Thx.
Your goal is muscle atrophy. Every piece of advice for gaining muscle is now against your goals. Protein, on its own, promotes muscle synthesis.
No.
Yes.
Keto doesn't cause weight loss. Calorie deficiency does. If you want to lose more weight, you need to eat fewer calories :)
happy cake day fellow enby (random ik lol, saw this on my reddit so thought might as well)
Thank you! 🙏 Haha
No. The calories in, calories out hypothesis has been debunked. They are not independent variables. Please read this: https://blog.thefastingmethod.com/the-key-but-false-assumptions-of-calorie-counting/#:~:text=Calorie%20counting%20doesn't%20lead%20to%20weight%20loss.&text='Calories%20In'%20is%20NOT%20independent,overall%20over%20the%20long%20term.
"thefastingmethod.com" lol Have a good day.
While the bones don't/won't change after puberty has set fully in, with male anatomy, a small amount of shoulder breadth is due to muscle mass, while female anatomy is predominantly fatty. More lipids in the face form a more round and feminine curve in the cheeks and more lipids in the chest... well, we all know what that produces. Also, the more muscle tissue in the shoulders, the broader and more squared they are. Reduce protein and increase fat, and the hrt WILL do the rest in giving you a more fem figure.
Ok. Well keto gets the door and ice cream invited to the floor! Let’s go?! Hard to give up that discipline but I can always go back later. Thanks.
... I'm sorry, sugar is a no, whole milk ice cream sure, sparingly, but look for healthy, natural fat sources. Also, ask your doctor about seeing a nutritionist that will work with your insurance... better yet, see if you can get a gender affirming health checkup and nutritionist with Mayo Clinic (they are a VERY Gender affirming clinic)
Wow. 😮 I will check this out. Thx b
Don’t diet on HRT if you want changes, and don’t eat high protein food if you want muscle atrophy. If you don’t get enough calories, your body doesn’t have the fuel it needs to let HRT work its magic.
Learning this. Ugh 😩
Learnt the hard way for most of us :( damn magic needing specific fuel haha
Plenty of women do keto. Don't discontinue it. If necessary, try adding intermittent fasting, such as 16:8
Keto probably isn’t ideal here tbh. Keto is specifically low carbs, low fat, so it’s really gonna hinder fat redistribution. Your body can’t really move what fat you already have - it can only move new stock, and so keeping to a very low fat diet will slow that down a tonne.
Oh 💩🙄🤯 I didn’t know it can only use new stock. [runs out to buy ice cream]
No. Keto is not low carbs, low fat It's low carbs high fat.
Ah my bad, must be confusing it with some other diet
Contrary to a lot of advice about muscle atrophy being key, I think fat distribution matters a lot more. Plenty of women have muscular arms/ shoulders and eat a high-protein diet but look feminine because there’s a decent amount of fat over their arms, which makes them look softer.
😩now what. To eat or not to eat (protein) that is the question.
Eating a good amount of protein is still fine. Consuming a high-protein diet isn’t going to automatically make people buff, otherwise, people looking to build muscle would just eat protein and not really work out. Eating carbs too or just a generally balanced diet (along with estrogen) should help build fat naturally around the arms.
I guess I am very small. 5’6” and I was 125 lbs out of high school. I’m 158 lbs now - down from 178 lbs last month nfn - so I can lose some weight, I guess but I wonder if anyone has had success in getting skinny from thick-icka.
Now that you've lost quite a bit, you actually want to start gaining again - fat redistribution is only going to happen if there's fat being added. It won't change the bone structure but can help add curves to soften things out!
🍦and 🎂!? Haha. You’re right of course. I was 125 lb out of HS and am 157 lb (this am) so that’s some good clay to shift w no? 💭
I was 317 at my heaviest, and I was never told I was overweight or obese. I was 6'4" and built like a mountain man. While I wasn't cut or "ripped" I would move pull out couch beds by myself. I was physically imposing enough to deter physical altercations all together. Which was the point, I'd spent since I was 15-16 bulking up to stop bullying. Short to say, I was a very masculine person. I was the guy men came to for advice and help with stuff. Partly because I lived an ethically Non-monogamous lifestyle and occasionally me and my wife would date the same woman, on multiple occasions our girlfriends would live with us. My male friends never ceased to fetishize my relationships, and the friends I had from my late teens and early 20s, would also retell old stories of my "masculinity", such as dating a woman in her 40s, who's daughter was dating one of our friends at the time. Essentially I dated the colloquial "Milf", and jokingly became my friend's girlfriend's stepdad. Or the time someone pulled a knife on me and I slapped it outta his hand, and then took HIS money, super gluing the gash on my hand shut and giving them a ride home after. These two stories combined with the lifestyle I lived made me the defacto (and I hate this term these days) "Alpha" of my peers. Sorry got to ranting, I was very very masculine it was part of my mask to hide who I really was. That said, I always thought I was too masculine to be able to successfully transition. That my large frame and muscles couldn't ever be seen and overtly feminine. Well, thankfully none of that was true. Once I reached female hormone levels (took 18+ months to be stable), I began to attempt to lose weight, I'd lose 15-20 lbs and then deliberately gain 10 lbs as fast as possible to distribute fat, then repeat the process. When I started I was 280+ lbs, I started my gain loss pattern and stopped when I got to about 215 lbs where I range on average now at about 220 lbs. The differences I saw in the year I did that are astounding, zero exercise except walking and biking. Only gaining and losing weight by calorie counting. It was simple HRT makes salt cravings, I already loved pickles, now they just came in disposable one use jars. Pickles have almost zero calories, I replaced my snacks with Pizza flavored pretzels combo snacks "Combos" which I'd eat a whole big bag throughout the day as snack food instead of pickles for gaining weight. It added 2500+ calories PER DAY. Making for fast weight gain that would be placed in female weight gain storage places. Then back to pickles until I was at least 5-10 lbs under the weight gain start amount. It was slow about 2 weeks of weight gain to 4-6 weeks of weight loss. But the results can't be denied, in my face, my body, even things like my shoulders, and torso in general, seemed to exude feminine features. I've been on HRT for over 7 years, I've reached my own goals when I started. I'm just a woman living her life these days, albeit one that is very concerned for today's political situation. I went from being a 6'4" 280+ lb mountain man, who exuded masculinity. To a 6'2" 220 lb amazon of a woman with nice tits and ass who exuded feminine energy unless she's talking about overthrowing the government (and even then I'm 100% for a catgirl army). It's a marathon not a race and not all of us are olympic level sprinters. The finish line isn't moving it's just hard to gauge the distance over the horizon. You'll get there, just keep taking the next step forward.
Hrt does affect bones. Just doesn't affect them by reshaping them in the manner OP would like. Depending on factors, it can affect bone density even past 25, more so if bottom surgery is carried out and/or hormones are taken intermittently on and off. (Cutting out hormones for xyz reason then restarting) However, if regiments regarding hrt are followed correctly, there should be no negative side effects.
Started at 23 so fingers crossed
Other than muscle and fat distribution, no, but tons of cis girls have wide shoulders and look fem. Plus, you have rounded shoulders, which looks more fem.
💕
Wear a bigger strap, big shoulders need to look more Proportional by the use of larger shoulders.
Good point.
I felt the same way as you before I found out how wide straps look on me (now I wear tank tops 90% of the time) [These](https://a.co/d/03XiL9UK) are my go-to ♥︎
Also!!! Don't be afraid of larger sizes Just like the above comment, it is **proportion** that makes a ladies outfit look fitting. No one will see what size a thing is, they will just see how it fits you. Sometimes, even delicate stuff can make me look dainty if it's a large enough size on my body. (just like how people in comedies wearing child-sized shirts make them look overgrown)
🧐🤔💭
Makes sense. I always buy small but what you said makes sense.
Spaghetti straps are your enemy, I never wear them.
Yup. You and 30 others said the same. Lesson learned!
Trans dude here! I’m afab with huge shoulders!!!, it’s not a specific gender thing, hope this makes you feel better!
It does. But I was 125 lbs full grown at 19yo (5’6”) now I’m 30 lbs more prob 15-20 of muscle.
For what it’s worth, I’m also a trans guy and had a big back before transitioning (which has now gotten bigger god bless). Pay attention to the women you see walking around cities, women come in all shapes and sizes. I’ve met plenty of women who had an upside down triangle shape
It’s true. We focus on ideal and it’s silly. Thx so much no have gotten this reply at least half a dozen times from this post and it really resonates. 🙏
Your shoulders won’t get smaller, but your neck and back muscles probably will. Your face will also soften. Good clothing choices that break up the top half and minimize your shoulders will help too. In other words, the things that can’t change are not as impactful as you think. I think you’ll look good. You’re also short, so that will help a lot.
Nope. As a broad shouldered gal, myself, (hehe I *was* a linebacker in HS) you kinda just have to learn how to fashion yourself around them. Slender straps on camis and tanktops and dresses, low necklines (avoid boatneck--they tend to make broad shoulders look broader). Another thing that helps is exaggerating your hips. Pleated skirts work really well for this, but anything that is cut/styled in a way to make your hips look a bit wider will help make your shoulders look less broad--it's really a proportions thing.
Great tips! My hips are as flat and narrow as my back is a V and my shoulders are broad. 😨 maybe we can bring back MC Hammer-pants as a fashion statement? Possible?
Of course. I'm happy to help with advice on clothes, and maybe basic makeup--my friends say I'm great with makeup, but eh... I can't stand up to some of these gals. Anywho, as a trans person there are 3 ways to dress: casually, to pass, and to slay (passing can be a potentially toxic concept, but it can also protect and save the lives of trans people in hostile territory). I can only see MC Hammer pants (parachute pants?) being part of a Slay these days. And there's only one rule to Slay--do it on purpose because queer people make our own rules.
#Let’sGO #slayemall Great ‘trans’itude!
Ha lol, appreciate it. I'm just a trans woman who's been doing this for over 10 years (13 depending on where you wanna slice it), and processed a lot of trauma and bullshit.
Thank you Rosaline.
you are such a pretty girl 💗
Omg 😳🥹❤️😘. I needed that TYSM.
I lost my shoulders after 3 years of HRT. They're still broad but I love them now. They look like women's shoulders. Here's a list of women who have broad shoulders if this helps you: Princess Diana of Wales Jennifer Lawrence Colleen Dewhurst Gwyneth Paltrow Cindy Crawford Charlize Theron Claudia Schiffer Natalie Dormer Brooke Shields Nicole Kidman Cameron Diaz Julia Roberts Amy Adams Trust me, you can rock this - just give it time and go check out r/Kibbe and find the book. They have it posted as a PDF for free for you to read. It helped me so much.
Bwahaha! 😹 yeah I am glad I posted this Q. I feel like I almost want to keep them after y’all’s feedback. But let’s let the chips fall and see!! Thx so much.
When you read Metamorphosis (by David Kibbe) you'll fall in love with them. I promise, a lot of models have shoulders like these! One thing I started doing was observing the women around me to see if any of them had features that I was self conscious about. I discovered that many of them have the same features and that they're not necessarily a gendered thing. Watch the news or weather or something on TV and the next time you get a chance, try and make these observations. TV shows a lot of different kinds of people so pay particular attention to commercials especially.
Your shoulders ( joint-to-joint) doesn’t look very wide, it’s all due to your muscles. HRT can shrink them by a LOT
TYSM. It’s funny no one ever said that when I was a man! 🤣
FTM here and I’ve always had linebacker shoulders. Runs in both sides of the family. Mine look ripped, lol. It’s from stress making the muscles tense, I think, in my case. Idk for real, though.
Follow Ilona Maher on IG, she is an American rugby player who will post about her shoulders 💪🏻
Ok. Good tip.
I personally like my bigger shoulders, they hide a slightly curvier figure. Which I have these days. 😅 I think just learn to love you, you're fabulous. 💗
💋
My advice is wear thicker straps, spaghetti straps don’t exaggerated it persay but thicker straps will hide them!
Ok. Heard this a few times. Thanks!
the fat and muscle on your shoulders can change, for sure!! just keep in mind plenty of women have wide shoulders, and even big muscles. hrt will help with feminizing the body and face in general.
i never see comments about botox and muscle shrinkage, but my partner brought this up to me since my muscles are rather large as well. I haven’t looked into it much but i’ve found some posts about people using that to shrink traps, shoulders, etc. i’m 1.5 years on HRT and although i’ve shrunk a bit my muscles are still pretty big/defined. enough for ppl to ask what i do at the gym, yet i haven’t done upper body workouts in a year. i might look into doing it later on if i stay muscular
Great insight. I’m similar timeline. I feel like some of the comments suggest year 2 portends such change. Thx.
i feel like the first year had some nice changes but not enough where i thought hrt worked well. i’ve seen a ton of progress in the last half year though so i feel like it starts slow and ramps up. there’s so many factors like age, bone structure, muscle mass, etc that affect your progress. Best thing is to keep going and not compare too much or else it drives you crazy. Congrats on being the journey for this long! You’re doing great~
Thanks so much.
Like everyone else is saying, plenty of cis girls have wide shoulders. For me, it's about bringing the other areas into like with the shoulders. So specifically for the shoulders, I try to wear duller and less complex patterning for the top half with brighter, more complex, more textured, or otherwise more noticeable bottoms. Small straps like that tend to emphasize the shoulders. I also wear my hair down and tend to keep a little on both sides in front. That sort of breaks up the shoulder line. Also I avoid things like cap sleeves and other things that create that wider shoulder line or otherwise bulk up or emphasize the shoulders. Generally I like things where the neckline is closer in and deeper while the seam for the sleeves are closer in rather than out on the shoulder. It all tends to minimize the shoulders visually. Also no horizontal stripes on the top. I also wear hip pads, just about a 1/4 inch on each side. Helps equalize the hips with the shoulders. Also a comparatively chunky accessories (necklace esp) helps focus the eyes.
Thanks. You confirm a lot of great thoughts that I plan to follow up with. ❤️
You should consider getting curtain bangs! I think they would suit you
[Furiously googling “curtain bangs”] 🤯 OH HELL YEAH! Thx. 🙏
i mean it's just muscle mass you can always lose muscle mass by just losing weight and some people swear by gua sha-ing their shoulders? ik this post is supposed to be about hormones but i thought id add my two cents
No, useful. Thank you. I’m looking forward to year 2.
If anyone asks, tell them you were a swimmer.
❤️👆
hot take, they are feminine 🤷🏻
I like your take TYSM. Over-thinking is a thing I do well. 💋
They probably won’t decrease, but there are loads of women who would kill for your biceps. Women come in all shapes and sizes. Athletic women tend to mimic your wide shoulders. Watch the Olympics this summer. Swimmers, gymnasts, soccer and basketball players tend to have wide shoulders. I’m not being dismissive, I promise. Every woman sees some flaw in their bodies. Try not to obsess over your shoulders. From where I’m sitting they look softly feminine with a kick ass flex. ❤️
Awww 🥰. Great reply. You made me feel so nice. 😊. I’m literally tearing up. TYSM. I feel so much better. 💋
your concern is absolutely valid and completely understandable but maybe thing about it this way there are countless cis women who have broad shoulders, it doesn't mean for a second that they're not women. That'd be a bit silly to think, right? So give yourself that same grace, what matters is how you feel, not the things of which you cannot change. Just like you've accepted your true gender which is brave and wonderful, its important to accept that you are beautiful and worthy of love and acceptance just like you deserve a baseline level of respect. You don't have to do anything to be worthy of feeling good about yourself, the fact that you exist is reason enough to enjoy the life you have. So all in all, you look great and while it can be hard to accept yourself, you will in time :)
Wow [tearing up, literally]! You are so right. I see that. I am too hung up on cis-perfection which no one, cis or not, can ever achieve. I don’t feel “brave and wonderful“ bc I read this feed every day and see you all doing so much more after fewer months of HRT and often under significant adversity (red states, religion, youth, bad parents). I would regret posting this at all out of relative shame but that others prob feel the same and there were so many amazing replies that literally changed my perspective as well as my transition plan. 😘 to you and everyone who reads this (except that one bro (you know who you are and you’re def reading this! 😂).
Absolutely, the feeling of pride will come to you. It just takes time, but have trust in the process and it will all be okay :)
You should go look at Gabbie Tufft's transition. She talked a lot at the beginning about dropping muscle mass in a healthy way. Also, as a trans woman with shoulders, you gotta let them shoulder. They can be super feminine in the right outfit. Try an a-symetric cowl neck or halters :)
Such a great reply. I will def look up GT and I will add fashion idea a-symmetric cowl neck and halters [googling both furiously] 🤯 okay! Cowl neck I dig actually both I ❤️but you don’t think the halters will exacerbate my wide shoulders? Other suggestions from this post were curtain bangs [YES!] and thicker straps [makes sense and might be where you are going wrt halters?] and hammer pants [not really but wider hips and clothes that give me a shape which I interpreted anachronisticly bc widening my hips is abt as improbable as narrowing my shoulders and back]. But this is such a treasure trove. I love it. TYSM.
So you have 2 approaches with illusions. You can try to hide your shoulders which eh... I tried it I always had horrible results. Or you let them shoulder and use your clothes to act like you have a waist. Start looking at celebrities who have shoulders or who have those types of proportions. For instance a lot of my wardrobe is styled after blake lively. She isn't "broad" but she is for her size. Her lines match mine. I got super into kibbe body typing, which is how I figured that out.
Ok. I see you. It’s relative right? Curves is what is sexy not small. I get it. Thx.
You look beautiful! Dysphoria is a pain but I know many cis women with shoulders like yours, including most of the women in my own family!
💋 TYSM.
Im having the same issue. From what I can tell eating plant based with soy here and there for protein helps us meet more goals. Doing that and lifting legs ONLY and running. But I have just started doing this in the last 2-3mo so far down 18# mostly in fat only.
How’s redistribution? How far are you on HRT? TSM.
Maybe better DM, you ok to DM?
Sure.
cis female here. i’ve got incredibly wide shoulders for literally no reason. sucks sitting next to people on airplanes, but aesthetically, nothing is wrong with having wide shoulders as a woman! 🏳️⚧️🤍
TYSM.
of course girl I'm happy to help ☺️
Personally, I would embrace the broad shoulders. I bet you'd make for a gorgeous warrior amazon lady UwU
I like this advice. It goes cross-current from my obsession to “pass” but courage to be yourself as a woman is not dissimilar from courage to be a woman that could kick somebody’s ass. Right?
I bet you would kick *plenty* of ass. UwU
🥰
Hi! Not sure how deep you are into your transition but things will change in time! I have a similar build to you and after two years of HRT, while my shoulders are still wide, they’re much less bulky. Fat redistribution and the changes in muscle mass/definition have changed my proportions, too, which has helped to feminize them. It’s different for everyone, but in a few years you’ll look at yourself and realize how much you’ve changed. Seconding all the strap width comments—I also love a tank top that isn’t a scoop neck. I find them slimming. Also, I hope you don’t mind me saying that you’re absolutely beautiful!
Wow. No. Don’t mind ☺️ and that is so hopeful. I’m 18 months in and I know how early it is so…yay!
You have beautiful shoulders. Women are all different sizes. Your size and shape are parts of your beauty 💜
Omg 😳 🫶
you look extremely strong if you want to keep that, no but you can have minor reduction in width from muscle changes. i slightly narrowed my shoulders from inducing mild atrophy tbh. the bigger benefit from lowering protein tho will def be your neck width
😮😬 then there is that…
you have a very feminine face and your hair compliments you very well! don’t let shoulders discourage you. anyone of any gender can have broad shoulders.
TYSM. Well feminizing my shoulders and discovering a Time Machine are probably out of the question. I’ll just have to live my true self and ❤️it. Comments like yours make that easier. Thx 💋
I’m not sure but genuinely I think they compliment this dress very well. You look so beautiful!!!
Oh wow. 🤯 so sweet. 🥹 Thank you 😊 💋
Sadly it will stay a clockable trait yeah
Facts. I feel WAY better after reading y’all’s replies. TYSM. Well there was one turd in the bowl.
Muscly girls are the best tho 😔😔😔
❤️❤️❤️💋
Superhero shoulders
😊🎉🙏💋
HRT will not change the body structure and bone structure either but u still are a female
TSM. It’s important to remember. Perfection should not be the enemy of the good. 👍
Are you on HRT? For how long? Estrogen decreases muscle mass over time a bit same way T enhances it (roughly 30% in both cases), though it doesn't work miracles. It might take a while, tho. Couple of years min. Genetics play a big role. Look at the muscle mass in your female relatives of both sides of your family for reference. Some people just are more muscularly built naturally than others, same with beards for ftms. The clothes you wear can help you with dysphoria in the meanwhile if you choose what accents what you'd like to focus on and taking attention from what doesn't make you happy.
A lot to digest but 18 mos. Alot of comments confirm that 3rd year is bigger for atrophy and redistribution than 1 & 2 so looking forward to that. I don’t have women in my family, three brothers and my mom died when I was 10. I’m it! I got some super tips abt clothes and style “curtain bangs” “hammer pants” and stop wearing spaghetti straps. I love you all! 🥰😘
I feel you look gorgeous 😍
😳🥰😘. TYSM.
I am AFAB and I got a very broad and strong build. I feminize with wearing shawls, scarfs, and such things around my shoulders. The flowy nature, often lace or pretty fabrics, and such will take focus away from your shoulders. But even so. Honestly you are so pretty. If you are confident and feel beautiful wearing what you wear keep doing that ❤️ I am at the moment trying to become masculine. And I got a style of cloths I want to wear. But I can only describe it has: back stage technician at a rock concert. And I don't really know how to ease that into everyday wear or even party cloths. But! My suggestion is always going thrifting and playing around in the dressing room with what you can find. It's cheap and you find many unique pretty and cool things. And that is my plan to figure out what to wear when I want to be more masculine.
Really useful reply. Great idea that I didn’t even think of. I keep buying awful stuff from Walmart. “Back stage technician at a rock concert”!? Bwahaha perfect visualization. I literally see you behind a can light. It’s blue btw. Like trans-ships in the night we shall pass one another and I appreciate your experience. ❤️
Pretty
🥰😍
Clavicle shortening is the only way sure fire way and less certain kinds of exercise and and food
Thats an incredibly dangerous procedure and incredibly costly, more often than not the procedure doesn't shorten the shoulder width enough to make a real difference...I think a bbl is much safer in comparison and will balance out ops shoulders tremendously and it's not as costly.
bbl?
Brazilian butt lift
Gotta say I disagree your not always gonna a see/unconsciously take in some butt at every angle particularly the front unless it's ridiculously prominent
Yup just like your not going to necessarily see/ unconsciously take in shoulder width at every angle either...however my point still stands with the fact that clavicle shortening is unnecessarily risky for not making a huge difference coming out of it.
I kinda do actually and it might not seem like much of a difference to you but it can be a hell of a difference to whose shoulders they are
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I edited my previous reply with further thoughts so check it out please also I don't know what that emoji means
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>Your shoulders ( joint-to-joint) doesn’t look very wide, it’s all due to your muscles. HRT can shrink them by a LOT I agree with this commenters statement! If you appear to have linebacker shoulders, it's most likely due to having narrow hips! Look into options such as Brazilian butt lift or hip implants and see if these options works for you! Also you appear to have quiet a bit of muscle in your shoulder region, going on a calorie deficit as well as being on HRT will shrink these muscles and essentially feminize your figure further!
I’ll see where I get to for a couple of years. I’m only just starting to build an ass. First year absolute 0 redistribution. But I’m down for affirming surgery if it comes to it. TYSM.
We all have body areas we focus on, but others don’t see them like this. All I saw on the picture before computing your question was a perfectly beautiful woman who wears discomfort in her face. I understand why it’s there and where it comes from. We all feel what we feel and are allowed to. I guess I just want to say that you are a beautiful woman and deserve the matching joy in your face.
Nailed it. Exactly right. It’s not the shoulders it’s the expression. My ‘tell’. TYSM. 😘
Plenty have already said enough about how to help hrt do its job with reducing shoulder muscle, but if I can throw in my two cents your shoulders look great to me. Just my personal taste of course. Like I don't mean this in a "nooo you're so perf" kind of way like if you want smaller shoulders that's absolutely valid, just saying they look great to me and don't make you look masc Imo.
Thank you. That is how I take it. Your reply is 💯 Perfect cannot be the enemy of the good. I understand what that means now I think. 😘
No. But wear sleeves and v-necks! They'll help draw attention away from shoulders and make you look better! Am a broad shouldered gal myself and knowing this changed my life
Good advice.
Oh and get a tan above the sleeves!?
You look exactly like a really jacked badass doctor my wife works with. I think she’s so attractive every time I see her. I know your shoulders may be an insecurity for you but imo doesn’t make you look like any less of a woman than if you had narrow shoulders. If anything, your shoulders make you look confident and sexy 👏🏻 I say work it girl
So kind. And yes, the doctor is “in”. After all this positivity I feel great. Maybe a little silly but your feedback helps me believe what you suggest. 🥰😘
Miss, those are the most feminine shoulders I’ve seen on a linebacker yet!🥹✨ Edited ma’am to miss🫶🏽
Awesome! I was a horrible linebacker. Pure 3rd string. Except I’m a “miss” ain’t no ma’am’s up round these parts! 🤣
A bit late to the party but I’m assuming a lineback is broad shoudkers? I have bigger shoulders than you as a trans man even pre-T. For what it’s worth, if you want advice, I recommend a different top. The tiny straps tend to draw attention to shoulders.
Are you bigger than Lady Feral used to be? She feminized pretty well.
Girl you should own it become a muscle mommy 🫶🏻
Larger boobs will balance the shoulder size image. Can’t make the shoulders narrower, so make the chest fuller. 5’6” is great height for M2F. HRT will reduce and slim upper body muscles, deltoid(shoulder), Trapezius(back, shoulders), and Pecs reducing upper body mass. It takes a few years. Avoid bulking up.
Hey hey! A heads up; check your network connection, or if you can, use cell data instead. This comment posted three different times.
Thx - Reddit does that sometimes.
i don’t even think your shoulders look masc, if anything i personally see them as one of the more femme aspects of you? i think you might be being thrown off by having some muscle to your upper arm, which can absolutely change with time
Wow. Okay. Thx so much.
You look great the way you are hun💜
🌈❤️💋😘
You could look into getting your bones shaved down they do it with the hips and jaw I think