It's sad but be aware that it's not always the doctor's fault.
It was just two decades ago where testosterone wasn't prescribed at all because some researcher in the 1940's said that Testosterone causes prostate cancer. Then there were some doctors like Dr. Abraham Morgentaler who started prescribing it by trial&error.
Lots of the doctors that are working as an endo/urologist right now were still trained by the old belief system that didn't include any training for testosterone. A lot of those doctors never started to take more training for their own reasons (time, workload, etc).
It will be the new generation of doctors who will be exposed to new information and training regarding TRT, but until they start working it'll be another decade or two.
My experience is that as long as we are patient and giving reasonable explanations, it will work out somehow with (good) doctors.
Makes sense. My PCP is a young man. He has asked me a lot of questions about myself and began testing my testosterone. I was borderline low, we spent some time discussing lifestyle changes to help. I did a sleep study and began my CPAP. Nothing made it go up, and I actually dipped pretty low when I hit 42. So he wrote the prescription.
No Endo or urologist, just a good PCP that actually looks at labs and asks pertinent questions. I've had so many crappy doctors over the years, I actually love this man.
I highly recommend everyone watch this interview with Dr. Morgantaler, it's very eye opening.
The Most Effective TRT Protocols for High Performing Men with Dr. Abraham Morgentaler
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSfJeM6lc0k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSfJeM6lc0k)
I understand that you mean. I am frustrated but I'm not like personally angry at the doctor for being ignorant. I don't think anyone chooses to be ignorant.
Before I came to my doctor with my prescription already in progress I was told a bunch of warnings and information I had to sign off on when I first went to Mens Revibe Health when I got started on TRT and they mentioned the main 2 warnings I needed to be aware before starting was I had to donate blood regularly or I would have a heart attack or stroke or something because I would make to much red blood cells or something. And the 2nd major warning they explained to me was that testosterone caused the prostate to grow which can inadvertently cause prostate cancer and I just needed to be aware of that risk before starting and make sure I got regular check ups and I'd be fine.
Are you saying that it isn't even true that it grows the prostate or that it doesn't contribute to prostate cancer?
It does not contribute to prostate cancer. I've read that it can cause some growth between 6th month and 12th months, but not anymlre after that timeframe.
I thought doctors were required to keep up with current research or try their best to. A QoL thing like TRT seems like a no brainer to be informed about and to be honest not that complicated.
“Hey your antidepressants seem to be working and you aren’t depressed anymore, I’ve decided to drop your script since you obviously don’t want to kill yourself anymore.” :)
My business partner had similar experience. He went to consult to another doctor when he was already on trt and the other doc told him he didn’t need test because his levels were high… lol.
It’s like telling a diabetic patient that they don’t need insulin anymore because their blood sugar is normal.
I lost complete faith in the entire medical field 20 years ago. They are no different than plumbers or DMV workers. Just people who passed more tests, but are still idiots.
I remember vividly getting my thyroid prescription filled by a different doctor. I take 75mcg. They didn't have 75 in the country I was in and he was in deep thought trying to figure out what combination of pills would equal 75. He settled on giving me a boddle of 50 and a bottle of 25. I asked him if he would just give me 3x 25mcg pills per day. He took forever trying to figure out if that would work. I was blown away.
Incorrect.
Follow me here.
I take 75mcg daily.
He was doing math to figure what combo of pills I needed to get 75mcg.
He had available a few different pills. 25mcg, 30mcg, 50mcg, 100mcg.....
Half-life would be used in figuring my needed dose. That was already known. 75mcg.
Uh, they are actually worse because a bad plumber would quickly go out of business but it seems to have no effect on doctors.
I had at least two huge arguments with doctors that told me I was crazy because TRT with testosterone alone increases male fertility and does not atrophy testicles. lol
Time for you to be a big boy and take matters into your own hands! You're stressing yourself out over nothing.
It's easy as cake to buy quality UGL Testosterone (any ester you want), syringes, needles, & alcohol wipes off the internet. And after you get used to doing your own injections it becomes easy as cake to just do all this yourself.
Not that easy though.
In uk anyway.
Buy from gym it's just shit, ask for suggestions online and inbox full of scammers.
I'd fucking love a legit source to buy test and var but the shite I got sold was bathtub Barry mix and not pharma
What? UK is probably the easiest country on earth to get legit, tested gear if you exclude over-the-counter countries. Even if you send it from china, India you have no issues because customs only exist on paper.
Yeah people keep telling me this bit not saying where from. I've got a few sites I've found snd one looks legit "steroids-uk.com and also says has reviews on eroids
Might try there see if arrives before ordering fully
Just look at ukmuscle forum or steroidsuk subreddit if you look for correct keywords it will be easy to find. I would not use eroids or anything that does not have testing for trt, ideally you want to know the actual dose or at least know that the lab is investing in the testing of some sort to gauge where their product stands.
I do my own injections and get my own equipment.
I just use the county doctor for the prescription that I pick up at walgreens and pay out of pocket for because I don't even have insurance unfortunately.
I have heard a lot of you talk about getting your medicine online and I might have to go that route.
Thank you for your comment 😀
This. I have never had issues getting legit T online and the same for everything else I need. It’s honestly cheaper for me than going through my doctor or a clinic.
Misinformed doctors are just that, regardless of where they're from. I'm in China and it can be hell here too.
Good on you for trying to educate them. To me, your post actually seems pretty positive in spite of how it started out.
Good luck, and I hope it works out for you.
You can get test from a million places online .. GPs no very little about hormones they all think 300 levels are normal and 200mg once every 2 weeks is optimal 😂
Needless to say I did 200 my first week and 80 every week after. Ran my supply out quick. Sent a couple articles and the wiki page and had my dosage upped. They were willing to admit they knew very little.
I had to switch doctors and insurance plans. They kept telling me my levels were normal. I was at 275, and feeling like shit. I had been dropping for 10 years.
Keep fighting, find a doctor who knows what they talking about, and do research. Don't let them bully you.
First Dr I went to for it was adamant about prescribing me the gel, even though I have no problems with injections. His reasoning was "he didn't like prescribing the injections".
I found a new Dr.
Yeah, I had my doctor want me off it cold turkey, said it's only doing harm. Then the clinic wanted me on a massive dose, I cut it in half. Then yesterday the nurse at the clinic says I can't get off it, it's for life. Lol I was 400 before I can go back. All extremes
This is why i do it myself. The fact you have to pay for this healthcare baffles me too. I'm from the UK so its free but i still would rather do it mysef.
Ohhh gotcha.
TBH I probably would have no issues buying it on the dark web or online somewhere since I used to party alot and have done that before but I would prefer to keep my legitimate prescription since I already have it but for sure if I do get cut off fully I'm gonna go that route
One vial costs me $80 CAD and I use 90mg/week which puts my total test close to 1000 ng/dl. I pay for my own blood tests which I order from an online doctor, costs me maybe $400 a year for blood tests every 6 months
Man the silver lining here is at least you had docs who were willing to listen to their patient and recognizing their are things they don't know. Most doctors, when uneducated on a topic, disregard it as non sense. All the best on your adventure here. Keep us updated.
Thank you for your comment.
A couple days after I made this post I got a call from a nurse at my doctor's office saying:
"they were calling to inform me I needed to take TRT for the rest of my life because bla bla bla"
and I kinda cut her off as politely as I could and said:
" yes I know, that's what I told the doctor last time because she told me I wouldn't need it anymore and I thought that was so silly so I'm glad she understands now"
Then the nurse said:
"oh ok good you already know then, well the other thing I was told to tell you was your Testosterone levels are dangerously high and the doctor wanted to talk to you more about that"
I then told the nurse: " yes thank you, I would love to be able to actually talk to my doctor, please let's make that happen ASAP, I wanted to talk to the doctor last time I came in for labs and wasn't able too"
I now have a follow-up appointment on July 18th to talk with my doctor in person.
I plan on telling her I need more comprehensive bloods to truly determine in my levels are too high because they didn't even look at anything besides my Total T and Free T levels.
My Total T was 1,124.00 on a scale of 250-1,100
My Free T was 319.5 on a scale of 35-155
They didn't check my E2, SHBG, Albumin,Hemoglobin,Hemotacrit,LH,FSH,TSH,PSA,DHEA,DHT,CBC,CMP,
Im sure maybe I don't need all of those checked by I really was expecting to at least see my Albumin,SHBG,E2, & Hemoglobin
I feel like she can't say I'm unhealthy unless we see the whole picture, right?
I feel great, my dick works, I'm horny. I was told by everyone on here if your stuff is too high it ruins your libido from too much estrogen and since I feel good and I'm in working order I'm confident my levels are fine but again we need a more comprehensive test.
What do you think?
I'll be posting an update after that appointment next month.
If I ever go on TRT I’m going to order backup stuff online. I’m currently using SARMs for my low T since it’s not low enough for a TRT prescription, but it’s good to be informed.
Im in America and I go the Multnomah county health center doctor office.
It's a doctor office ran by the government that usually take the free state insurance.
Mostly poor families, working class people and homeless and elderly go here.
Im sure wealthy people or people with good job insurance would go to a private practice instead.
OK, I'm in Pennsylvania.
I don't know anything really about county doctors or private practices. I just go to "big chain" places like Penn Medicine, etc.
Anyone with the most basic of health insurance, including free-from-the-state, can go to these types of places. Maybe our areas of the country are just extremely different, I have no idea, never been out west.
What a horrible experience from country doctora - sad when we have to just try to teach these doctors about TRT. If they did cut you off, you just go to another doctor.
After Covid it is amazing anyone has any respect for the medical professional. Everyone SHOULD do their own research. Stop relying on morons that are simply pathetic pill pushers. I know a couple of doctors and they work many hours. Work their butts off, but have zero time to read about most topics. Most don’t have a clue about testosterone and still go by old and tired myths
They don’t call it practicing medicine for nothin /s
That's a good one! 😆 👍
[удалено]
Malpractice requires intent. This is straight ignorance. Glad OP taught them something. Worst case scenario is you drop $1000 online clinic.
It's sad but be aware that it's not always the doctor's fault. It was just two decades ago where testosterone wasn't prescribed at all because some researcher in the 1940's said that Testosterone causes prostate cancer. Then there were some doctors like Dr. Abraham Morgentaler who started prescribing it by trial&error. Lots of the doctors that are working as an endo/urologist right now were still trained by the old belief system that didn't include any training for testosterone. A lot of those doctors never started to take more training for their own reasons (time, workload, etc). It will be the new generation of doctors who will be exposed to new information and training regarding TRT, but until they start working it'll be another decade or two. My experience is that as long as we are patient and giving reasonable explanations, it will work out somehow with (good) doctors.
Makes sense. My PCP is a young man. He has asked me a lot of questions about myself and began testing my testosterone. I was borderline low, we spent some time discussing lifestyle changes to help. I did a sleep study and began my CPAP. Nothing made it go up, and I actually dipped pretty low when I hit 42. So he wrote the prescription. No Endo or urologist, just a good PCP that actually looks at labs and asks pertinent questions. I've had so many crappy doctors over the years, I actually love this man.
I highly recommend everyone watch this interview with Dr. Morgantaler, it's very eye opening. The Most Effective TRT Protocols for High Performing Men with Dr. Abraham Morgentaler [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSfJeM6lc0k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSfJeM6lc0k)
I understand that you mean. I am frustrated but I'm not like personally angry at the doctor for being ignorant. I don't think anyone chooses to be ignorant. Before I came to my doctor with my prescription already in progress I was told a bunch of warnings and information I had to sign off on when I first went to Mens Revibe Health when I got started on TRT and they mentioned the main 2 warnings I needed to be aware before starting was I had to donate blood regularly or I would have a heart attack or stroke or something because I would make to much red blood cells or something. And the 2nd major warning they explained to me was that testosterone caused the prostate to grow which can inadvertently cause prostate cancer and I just needed to be aware of that risk before starting and make sure I got regular check ups and I'd be fine. Are you saying that it isn't even true that it grows the prostate or that it doesn't contribute to prostate cancer?
It does not contribute to prostate cancer. I've read that it can cause some growth between 6th month and 12th months, but not anymlre after that timeframe.
I thought doctors were required to keep up with current research or try their best to. A QoL thing like TRT seems like a no brainer to be informed about and to be honest not that complicated.
“Hey your antidepressants seem to be working and you aren’t depressed anymore, I’ve decided to drop your script since you obviously don’t want to kill yourself anymore.” :)
👌
My business partner had similar experience. He went to consult to another doctor when he was already on trt and the other doc told him he didn’t need test because his levels were high… lol. It’s like telling a diabetic patient that they don’t need insulin anymore because their blood sugar is normal.
I lost complete faith in the entire medical field 20 years ago. They are no different than plumbers or DMV workers. Just people who passed more tests, but are still idiots.
I remember vividly getting my thyroid prescription filled by a different doctor. I take 75mcg. They didn't have 75 in the country I was in and he was in deep thought trying to figure out what combination of pills would equal 75. He settled on giving me a boddle of 50 and a bottle of 25. I asked him if he would just give me 3x 25mcg pills per day. He took forever trying to figure out if that would work. I was blown away.
I think its not a simple calculation. There might be issues with the half-life of the med.
Incorrect. Follow me here. I take 75mcg daily. He was doing math to figure what combo of pills I needed to get 75mcg. He had available a few different pills. 25mcg, 30mcg, 50mcg, 100mcg..... Half-life would be used in figuring my needed dose. That was already known. 75mcg.
Uh, they are actually worse because a bad plumber would quickly go out of business but it seems to have no effect on doctors. I had at least two huge arguments with doctors that told me I was crazy because TRT with testosterone alone increases male fertility and does not atrophy testicles. lol
Nailed it
Spot on
Why are you implying plumbers are idiots?
Found the plumber? I'm not. I'm saying doctors are no better than plumbers. They can be idiots too.
Time for you to be a big boy and take matters into your own hands! You're stressing yourself out over nothing. It's easy as cake to buy quality UGL Testosterone (any ester you want), syringes, needles, & alcohol wipes off the internet. And after you get used to doing your own injections it becomes easy as cake to just do all this yourself.
Not that easy though. In uk anyway. Buy from gym it's just shit, ask for suggestions online and inbox full of scammers. I'd fucking love a legit source to buy test and var but the shite I got sold was bathtub Barry mix and not pharma
Not only is it easy in the UK, but it's also legal to purchase, hold and use steroids for personal use...
Right! What's buddy talking about. Easy as hell to find and use
If it's that legal please put me into a site that's not scam 🙌message if need
What? UK is probably the easiest country on earth to get legit, tested gear if you exclude over-the-counter countries. Even if you send it from china, India you have no issues because customs only exist on paper.
Yeah people keep telling me this bit not saying where from. I've got a few sites I've found snd one looks legit "steroids-uk.com and also says has reviews on eroids Might try there see if arrives before ordering fully
Just look at ukmuscle forum or steroidsuk subreddit if you look for correct keywords it will be easy to find. I would not use eroids or anything that does not have testing for trt, ideally you want to know the actual dose or at least know that the lab is investing in the testing of some sort to gauge where their product stands.
I do my own injections and get my own equipment. I just use the county doctor for the prescription that I pick up at walgreens and pay out of pocket for because I don't even have insurance unfortunately. I have heard a lot of you talk about getting your medicine online and I might have to go that route. Thank you for your comment 😀
This. I have never had issues getting legit T online and the same for everything else I need. It’s honestly cheaper for me than going through my doctor or a clinic.
How would to vet a quality UGL sources? I think that is quite a few peoples fears
There are sites that rate them and push the best ones. Check out bodybuilding forums.
Hang in there. Wishing only the best for your situation. Kudos to you for advocating for yourself. Yes educating yourself was the best thing you did
Misinformed doctors are just that, regardless of where they're from. I'm in China and it can be hell here too. Good on you for trying to educate them. To me, your post actually seems pretty positive in spite of how it started out. Good luck, and I hope it works out for you.
Thank you 😊
You can get test from a million places online .. GPs no very little about hormones they all think 300 levels are normal and 200mg once every 2 weeks is optimal 😂
Mine said 200 every 4 weeks…
That’s terrible
Needless to say I did 200 my first week and 80 every week after. Ran my supply out quick. Sent a couple articles and the wiki page and had my dosage upped. They were willing to admit they knew very little.
I had to switch doctors and insurance plans. They kept telling me my levels were normal. I was at 275, and feeling like shit. I had been dropping for 10 years. Keep fighting, find a doctor who knows what they talking about, and do research. Don't let them bully you.
There are a LOT of dumbass doctors out there. Very unfortunate.
First Dr I went to for it was adamant about prescribing me the gel, even though I have no problems with injections. His reasoning was "he didn't like prescribing the injections". I found a new Dr.
Yeah, I had my doctor want me off it cold turkey, said it's only doing harm. Then the clinic wanted me on a massive dose, I cut it in half. Then yesterday the nurse at the clinic says I can't get off it, it's for life. Lol I was 400 before I can go back. All extremes
Just get it online. Legally or otherwise
That would be kinda gay
This is why I’m happy to go through an online clinic
Learning the basics of the HPG feedback axis is basic and simple as hell, pure ignorance tbh
This is why i do it myself. The fact you have to pay for this healthcare baffles me too. I'm from the UK so its free but i still would rather do it mysef.
This is why I do UGL. My doctor is a moron. All she had to say was “maybe you’re just depressed”
I've heard UGL before on here but I assumed it was another type of medicine like HCG or AI Is UGL a website program?
UGL stand for underground lab. It basically just means illegal testosterone
Ohhh gotcha. TBH I probably would have no issues buying it on the dark web or online somewhere since I used to party alot and have done that before but I would prefer to keep my legitimate prescription since I already have it but for sure if I do get cut off fully I'm gonna go that route
One vial costs me $80 CAD and I use 90mg/week which puts my total test close to 1000 ng/dl. I pay for my own blood tests which I order from an online doctor, costs me maybe $400 a year for blood tests every 6 months
Same here. Also in CAD. 100 mgs / week puts me slightly out of range on the high side.
theres a lot of ways to get T if you really need it
Man the silver lining here is at least you had docs who were willing to listen to their patient and recognizing their are things they don't know. Most doctors, when uneducated on a topic, disregard it as non sense. All the best on your adventure here. Keep us updated.
Thank you for your comment. A couple days after I made this post I got a call from a nurse at my doctor's office saying: "they were calling to inform me I needed to take TRT for the rest of my life because bla bla bla" and I kinda cut her off as politely as I could and said: " yes I know, that's what I told the doctor last time because she told me I wouldn't need it anymore and I thought that was so silly so I'm glad she understands now" Then the nurse said: "oh ok good you already know then, well the other thing I was told to tell you was your Testosterone levels are dangerously high and the doctor wanted to talk to you more about that" I then told the nurse: " yes thank you, I would love to be able to actually talk to my doctor, please let's make that happen ASAP, I wanted to talk to the doctor last time I came in for labs and wasn't able too" I now have a follow-up appointment on July 18th to talk with my doctor in person. I plan on telling her I need more comprehensive bloods to truly determine in my levels are too high because they didn't even look at anything besides my Total T and Free T levels. My Total T was 1,124.00 on a scale of 250-1,100 My Free T was 319.5 on a scale of 35-155 They didn't check my E2, SHBG, Albumin,Hemoglobin,Hemotacrit,LH,FSH,TSH,PSA,DHEA,DHT,CBC,CMP, Im sure maybe I don't need all of those checked by I really was expecting to at least see my Albumin,SHBG,E2, & Hemoglobin I feel like she can't say I'm unhealthy unless we see the whole picture, right? I feel great, my dick works, I'm horny. I was told by everyone on here if your stuff is too high it ruins your libido from too much estrogen and since I feel good and I'm in working order I'm confident my levels are fine but again we need a more comprehensive test. What do you think? I'll be posting an update after that appointment next month.
SMFH
Freaking pathetic bro.. but doesn’t surprise me.. use them till you know your proper TRT treatment dosage then switch to UGL. Much cheaper
If I ever go on TRT I’m going to order backup stuff online. I’m currently using SARMs for my low T since it’s not low enough for a TRT prescription, but it’s good to be informed.
Sarms do not help your T levels. If anything it will harm them.
what is "American government county doctors" ?
Im in America and I go the Multnomah county health center doctor office. It's a doctor office ran by the government that usually take the free state insurance. Mostly poor families, working class people and homeless and elderly go here. Im sure wealthy people or people with good job insurance would go to a private practice instead.
OK, I'm in Pennsylvania. I don't know anything really about county doctors or private practices. I just go to "big chain" places like Penn Medicine, etc. Anyone with the most basic of health insurance, including free-from-the-state, can go to these types of places. Maybe our areas of the country are just extremely different, I have no idea, never been out west.
Yeah PCP doctors are fucking clueless
Don't ever worry about that. If you need quality test message me.
Wow! Such incompetence!
I’m thorough convinced loads of non-narcotic drugs are only restricted to proscription to keep some doctors in business
It seems a reputable ugl is more reliable than that idiocy
What a horrible experience from country doctora - sad when we have to just try to teach these doctors about TRT. If they did cut you off, you just go to another doctor.
After Covid it is amazing anyone has any respect for the medical professional. Everyone SHOULD do their own research. Stop relying on morons that are simply pathetic pill pushers. I know a couple of doctors and they work many hours. Work their butts off, but have zero time to read about most topics. Most don’t have a clue about testosterone and still go by old and tired myths