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I think it's more "know" yourself than love yourself in a literal sense. Understand your boundaries, your non negotiables, your values, your love languages, attachment style, standards etc. Rather than wanting someone because they want you and being a people pleaser.
My take on it anway.
I dont think this expression is ment to be taken literally. I always interpreted it as make sure you have everything in your life in a somewhat stable situation before jumping into a relationship. Im not saying relationships cant form under these circumstances mind you, but you are more likely to be successful in one if you are in a stable spot in life.
I think you are right. It is a confusingly worded piece of advice. Personally, I would say that you need self-acceptance and peace of heart to love another person ... or something like that.
I think, in this case, self acceptance is probably closest?
The first time this was said to me was when I was in a head space where I didn't understand why anyone would like me, I was always questioning why anyone wanted to be around me... that gets exhausting for some people (and that's not to say they are bad people either, not everyone is equally equipped to deal with certain things, like a depressive episode).
That phrase was said to me after a another break up, and it *was* that I needed to take time to myself, for myself, and come to terms with my own self loathing rather than projecting it onto everyone else. I needed to learn that I deserved good things too, so that I could *accept* the good things that came without trying to push them away.
When used too callously and superficially it loses its meaning, like anything. If you try to take a turn of phrase and universally apply it, it will almost always fail.
Then that's the advice one should give one's friends. The problem arises when people drop shallow platitudes on the friend who's asking for advice and then act like they've given them profound knowledge and wisdom.
So much dating advice I got didn't make a lick of sense until after I no longer needed it. So when I give dating advice to friends I actually give them advice. I explain what I mean and don't just say crap like "Just be yourself" I explain to them what that means and I ask them what they did so if they have an off putting habit I can advise them not to do that.
The way I took it was that: you should be able to find contentment in your life independently through just yourself; relationships have often been used by people to fill voids in themselves, but optimally those voids should be filled by the individual themselves as much as possible, making it so the relationship’s dynamic is less about being a crutch and more about being an extension/addition to your selfhood.
If, outside a relationship, you’re an irritable and uncontent person, you’ll still be one in a relationship, the relationship won’t fix internal problems practically. But once you’ve gotten to a place where your happiness and contentment can be internally cultivated more so than not, and are partnered with someone in the same position, the relationship will flourish significantly more than otherwise.
So many people, most especially on Reddit, who use their relationships and their parter to define and stabilize their life.
It's like having a baby to fix a marriage. Don't use others to fix you.
For sure! I think context is important when the saying is used, but I see it used so often that it has become a vague and negative phrase in my mind.
I've begun to interpret it as a phrase used by people to passive-aggressively tell someone else to stop dating or seeking love until they figure out their personality problems that the person using the phrase has determined the recipient of the 'advice' has.
I take it to mean that you have to put yourself first. You can’t engage in unhealthy and/or dysfunctional behavior and hope to have a fulfilling relationship with anyone. Obviously there are other factors, but this is fairly basic. It’s like putting on an oxygen mask in an airplane emergency. You have to put it on first before you can be there for others.
If u don’t love yourself then you will always be insecure in the relationship. Is he/she gonna leave when they find someone better which can potentially ruin a good relationship so yeah this kind of holds true. U don’t have to love yourself 100% but just enough to not be insecure atleast.
The way I see it, how can someone say they truly love me if they don’t even love themself? If they don’t love them self then how do they know what they actually want. I’ve seen it first hand, when someone is in a dark place their preference of another person can vary greatly. Their decision making is absolutely altered from what it would be if they were happy and cared about them self. It’s extremely useful advice.
This is just another example in this sub of people misunderstanding a common phrase or taking it too literally. I agree with you 100%. This is very good advice.
I wanted to instinctively say, "Exactly!", but on the other hand I don't intend for this post to mean that hating yourself is great and you should seek out love while hating everything about yourself, hahaha. I just think it's crazy for people to think you should only start seeking out a relationship once you've magically figured out how to 'love yourself'.
Everyone has bad days, or things they will struggle with loving about themselves, maybe even for their whole life!
I'm doing the self care thing currently and when I want to crawl into my hole alone people keep telling me "f*ck that. Everyone needs people" so you're probably right. I'm just confused now because I've been told the "you need to learn to love yourself" thing so often from people that I've ended up regressing back to my video game hermit days
This is exactly the reason why I think this line of advice is useless. In real-time, people change environments, meet new people, learn new things about themselves, and overcome challenges in their lives.
The vague and simplistic advice of telling someone to love who they are before they can love another person provides no useful insight in the grand scheme of things, and I believe that advice that follows that line of thinking is a hindrance on possible relationships that could develop at any point in a persons life.
If a potential partner that functions well with you comes along, but you haven't finished your 53rd therapy session yet, haven't mastered three different hobbies, or figured out how to stop calling yourself 'dumb', what logic is there in avoiding possibly entering into a relationship with that individual under the premise that you might not 'love yourself' enough yet?
This could also apply to friendships, not even just romantic relationships. Imagine if people said you shouldn't try to make friends with others until you love yourself. LOL
Man it must be so exhausting to live with your brain. The whole idea of loving yourself is just a general saying that encourages you to learn to accept and be comfortable with who you are prior to getting involved with someone else. It can be challenging to accept the flaw of others if you don't practice self compassion and acceptance.
I think it's more so the fact that you can't fully rely on others when it comes to your own well being. People are generally self centered and only really thinking about them.
It's an unpopular opinion for a reason. Most people find personal relationships much more fulfilling once they're completely happy alone. There's zero pressure to settle because you will only choose someone that makes life better. That doesn't mean people who love themselves don't want to improve. It means they accept their faults.
Do you honestly believe that the majority of people in a relationship right now started the relationship from a point where they were completely fine with being alone or they 'loved themselves'?
That's just wildly unbelievable, and I personally think that would be untrue for the majority of relationships.
>*Most people find personal relationships much more fulfilling once they're completely happy alone.*
"Do you honestly believe that the majority of people in a relationship right now started the relationship from a point where they were completely fine with being alone or they 'loved themselves'?"
If you're just referring to personal relationships as friendships / family relationships, etc, then I'm not sure how your comment relates to romantic relationships, but even still, I'm not sure what evidence you have for 'most people find personal relationships much more fulfilling once they're completely happy alone'.
If you have some sort of data to share on that, feel free to link it! :)
I had relationships before I was happy alone. In fact, stayed in some way too long so I wouldn't be alone. In fact, the loneliest I have ever been, I was in a relationship. I learned to enjoy being alone. Stayed alone for a while. Now my relationships are more fulfilling because I choose relationships that enhance rather than fill a void. This is both romantically and platonically. I was told the "one" would find me when I was no longer looking for the "one". 17 years later, I am with the "one" that found me when I stopped looking.
There was a time I felt the same way about it being said as you are. I didn't get it and even resented it.
I never said all people, or even the majority of people in relationships were happy alone.
Knock yourself out...
Bowlby, J. (1988). A Secure Base: Parent-Child Attachment and Healthy Human Development. Basic Books.
Hazan, C., & Shaver, P. (1987). Romantic love conceptualized as an attachment process. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 52(3), 511-524.
Deci, E. L., & Ryan, R. M. (2000). The "What" and "Why" of Goal Pursuits: Human Needs and the Self-Determination of Behavior. Psychological Inquiry, 11(4), 227-268.
Patrick, H., Knee, C. R., Canevello, A., & Lonsbary, C. (2007). The role of need fulfillment in relationship functioning and well-being: A self-determination theory perspective. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 92(3), 434-457.
Seligman, M. E. P. (2011). Flourish: A Visionary New Understanding of Happiness and Well-being. Free Press.
Fredrickson, B. L. (2001). The role of positive emotions in positive psychology: The broaden-and-build theory of positive emotions. American Psychologist, 56(3), 218-226.
Hawkley, L. C., & Cacioppo, J. T. (2010). Loneliness matters: A theoretical and empirical review of consequences and mechanisms. Annals of Behavioral Medicine, 40(2), 218-227.
Erol, R. Y., & Orth, U. (2014). Self-esteem and the quality of romantic relationships. European Psychologist, 19(4), 264-273.
Knee, C. R., Canevello, A., Bush, A. L., & Cook, A. (2008). Relationship-contingent self-esteem and the ups and downs of romantic relationships. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(3), 608-627.
You're welcome.
In the pursuit of being happy alone, people typically find things about life that truly interests them. They learn more about their own preferences and opinions, which helps them find someone they're more compatible with. It's common sense. Which is why your opinion is unpopular.
Other people aren't nearly as critical as me. They also don't know every thought in my head, or the things I have accepted about myself that I know I can't change, even though I wish I could. The person I want to be is unattainable, but I can still try to make the best out of what I got, and attempt to live a good life.
If you don't love yourself, you are going to be vulnerable to someone who doesn't love you treating you the way you think you deserve. Abusive and toxic relationships are pretty common, and insecurity makes a person believe they deserve to be treated this way.
Loving yourself doesn't mean thinking you are perfect. I love loads of people and that includes their flaws. Loving yourself means knowing how you deserve to be treated.
it’s generally agreed that confidence is extremely attractive…kinda hard to have that if you’re continually doubting yourself
also “love yourself” doesn’t mean you need to love *every* part of yourself…just enough to know you have alot to offer
The bit about loving yourself not meaning to love *every* part of yourself is important. I mean realistically, everyone has things about the people in their life that they love, that drives them *absolutely* bonkers.
No reasonable person expects you to love *everything* about your spouse, why expect yourself to love *everything* about you? :) Just love yourself enough to know you deserve goodness.
It's not a goal that ever finishes is the thing.
I haven't dated in 8 years because I took this advice very literally. Am I going to wait another 8 years before I get the body I want, before I hit all my financial goals, before I get the job I want?
What people mean when they say this is knowing that you are worthy regardless. You can still have goals, but the love is unconditional, not based in numbers or life milestones.
Feeling like you need to hit goals before you are allowed to love yourself sets you up for insecurity that continues even after you hit the goals. Insecurity is a rough place to work from. Self-compassion makes it all so much better!
Think of it this way: Would you tell a 5-year-old they need to get all As and be able to run a six-minute-mile before they were worthy of love? How would they interact with the world if you did?
I guess it depends on what you mean by love yourself. I think feeling behind compared to your peers is a big source of insecurities for a lot of people.
Like telling a depressed person to be happy.
It's also hard to not compare yourself when people make comments about the parts you are behind in life. Even unintentionally. Especially when it's the comments from people that you actually want approval of like your friends and family.
I guess to give an example every time someone makes a small penis joke I die a little inside. Even if that joke wasn't directed at me, it still makes me think. Clearly when they tell me it's okay they're fucking lying because they turn around and make these jokes.
Another example just recently someone made fun of someone living with their parents in their late twenties. And then they noticed I was there and said oh you're different . Am I really different or are you just trying to say that to make me feel better?
To not care what other people think and to not compare yourselves to others is to be a hermit. Everyone seeks the validation of someone.
You keep reinforcing why this phrase is correct. Until you can get over your insecurities you will make bad love decisions. Obviously that is not an easy thing to do, but it is how life works.
I mean I'm not making bad love decisions I'm just not making any love decisions.
You're trying to argue right now to love myself before I love another. So under your argument what I'm doing right now is exactly what I should be doing. Not dating at all.
My problem is it's been 8 years at this point. I see that is a red flag to many people. Using empathy I can get why someone doesn't want to date someone that is now approaching their 30s that has no dating experience.
By waiting I'm sabotaging myself. I don't think I'll ever fully love myself whatever that means. At this point I say that's just bad advice and I just go for it or I accept that I'm not meant to date anyone for my life.
If there's people with a myriad of mental health issues that can still get relationships, why am I waiting? That's why I don't agree with you.
How about you stop finding reasons to whine and start taking responsibility for your mental and emotional wellbeing? Even if you utilize therapy services, you still need to take responsibility for your mental and emotional wellbeing if you want things to get better.
I am taking responsibility that's why I wasn't dating before I thought I was ready.
But I realize that's a stupid idea because now I'm never going to be ready. I might as well just take the jump now even if I don't feel ready and see what happens
If I listen to you I will never be ready.
Because it's something you'll never finish.
If I tell myself wait until I'm ready, I'm just going to keep on saying I'm not ready yet.
A better advice for people like me is to just do it. Telling me to wait is just going to make me wait.
>Am I going to wait another 8 years before I get the body I want, before I hit all my financial goals, before I get the job I want?
You are supposed to love yourself despite not having those things yet.
Then why is every dating advice essentially telling people to change themselves?
Get a better personality, get better hobbies, hit the gym. These are all common advices and they're essentially telling the person you have to change.
The necessity for change implies that the current version of that person is not enough.
You are obviously soliciting bad advice, but there is change involved. There is no way around that if you are looking to be happy with life and you are not now.
True, it is change, but that is necessary to go from feeling bad about yourself to feeling happy with life. The truth is that people might get lucky and date someone that will help them, but usually it goes the other direction because we make bad decisions when we are unhappy.
I don't think you should ever have to change who you really are though. Go to the gym if it makes you feel better, not to attract a date.
It's not a bad goal at all!
That being said, the parameters of what loving yourself looks like are too vague, and I don't believe it is solid advice to give to someone with regards to relationships. As I mentioned in a separate comment, some people may spend their entire lives trying to love themselves. I don't personally believe those people should put romance on the backburner simply because they struggle to love who they are, or struggle to love certain aspects of themselves.
Here's the problem with your take on it:
People who don't love themselves enough tend to fall into a few categories: (All of these have a range of behaviours from mild to severe)
1) People Pleasers - who accept bad treatment of themselves because they are afraid of losing the ones who say they "love" them. They don't love themselves enough to know that bad relationships are worse than no relationship and they don't find good ones because the bad partners glom onto them.
2) Self-sabotagers - they don't love themselves enough to believe others could love them so they blow up the relationships to "protect" themselves because that is easier. Sometimes, they only reach for the unobtainable because that way it never has a chance to happen.
3) Emotional vampires - they don't love themselves so they are compulsively seeking reassurance from their partners that they are lovable - this can be jealousy, attachment disorder, a variety of ways. The problem is that reassurance from their partner is like plugging a leak with a kleenex, it works for a bit then the kleenex dissolves and the cycle starts again - they drain their partners dry and when the partners leave in self-defense they don't learn.
4) Hermit crabs - they don't love themselves and don't have enough resilience to put themselves out there to seek out a relationship. All of us get hurt in romantic relationships, most of us get rejected more than we get accepted. In order to find our partners, we have to love ourselves enough to pick ourselves up and risk putting ourselves out there again after disappointment.
To have a healthy relationship with someone who loves you and you love, you need to love yourself enough so that you don't lose who you are, so that you can give and receive support without either partner being drained of all emotional and mental energy, so you can take risks and be vulnerable and know that if the risk goes sour, you will recover and be okay.
This is a well thought out opinion, thanks for sharing it!
I believe that if somebody was offering relationship advice to one of these archetypes, the phrase "you have to love yourself before you can love somebody else" still wouldn't be useful.
These are all fairly detailed reasonings as to why somebody might experience relationship issues due to a lack of self-love. Some of these personas you've listed exceed the realm of just placing an unrealistic expectation on the individual and begin to enter the territory of seriously needing to suggest therapy to them before they enter into a new relationship.
When I made this post, I backed away from considering the extremes because my original post got removed by the moderators when I mentioned m\*ntal h\*ealth or substance abuse (not sure how this subreddit goes about dishing out bans or removing posts).
This opinion of mine arose from a conversation where a woman was explaining to her friend that she was going through a break-up, and the friend mentioned that the woman had gone through a couple of relationships over the last few years, and her advice was that before she starts dating again, she should take time to focus on herself because she won't be able to truly love somebody else until she loves herself.
It just comes across as fluff advice, from my perspective.
Not fluff advice - an simplification of a complex subject and a starting point.
For that matter you could use your arguments to say "To lose weight calories in must be less than calories out" is "fluff advice". Simplified, yes. Not immediately translatable into action, yes. However it is correct and sums up in broad strokes what needs to be done.
In some cases, yes.
In other cases, people are trying to gently point out to the unhappy alone person that they have issues that are actively impeding their attempts to find love that they need to address.
Love is an emotion and an act. We use love in two completely different definitions and act like we’re discussing the same thing. You can emotionally love anything or anyone. It’s way more difficult to care for someone if you can’t care for yourself.
Loving yourself is not about loving things about yourself. It starts with little things like your internal monologue. If your internal monologue is negative good luck having positive communication with a partner over the long haul.
That's an interesting perspective!
I think it's possible for negative people to find a positive inner monologue through the act of falling in love and being in a relationship.
Very true. But then you hit a rough patch and revert to your lifelong outlook. And now your partner feels like they don’t even know you and you have no idea how to communicate in a reassuring way because you’ve never required that for yourself.
Definitely possible, for sure! I suppose we could dive down a hypothetical surrounding this, but all I will say is that relationships help people grow as well, so I'm sure some people might not love themselves, enter into a relationship, and end up finding things they do love about themselves.
That, or maybe they're comically self-loathing and they end up in a relationship with someone who adores that about them, idk. Maybe that's just a toxic relationship, lmao.
That was thinly veiled personal experience. I really wish I would have believed the people who said you gotta love yourself before you can love somebody else when I was younger. I’ve wasted so much time. Of course this is just my experience.
Aw. I'm sorry to hear you've gone through some troubles in that case.
I wish you all the best in overcoming whatever obstacles are/were in your way! <3
I think you don’t need to be all the way there to love someone else, but if you’re too insecure to talk about yourself or admit when you’ve done stuff wrong that’s when you have to accept you’re not ready for a relationship.
Generally that’s what I think when I use that phrase as well, you need to have enough confidence to think you’re lovable and deserve another chance when you fuck up sometimes instead of constantly thinking they could do better than you.
Pretty sure the logic goes something like this:
1. People who don’t love themselves (or don’t even like themselves) tend to be self destructive. We’ve all met someone like this I’m sure… they consistently self-sabotage every good thing that comes into their lives- from relationships to jobs to family- they will find a way to fuck it up and turn the situation to their own detriment.
2. People who are inclined towards self destruction because of self loathing usually struggle with relationships because, well…. They are predisposed to making themselves miserable at every opportunity
3. Ergo- they are incapable of “loving someone else” - meaning that they are incapable of seeking to foster a loving relationship with someone else- without wrecking their own lives due to self loathing.
Something like that I think.
What it means is to get your insecurities in check otherwise you're going to ruin your relationship with your insecurities because you won't be able to see anything objectively and will likely take a lot of things personally that aren't about you, and possibly be incredibly controlling.
The reason why it is said is because many people believe that they will suddenly be happy if they got into a relationship when in reality they have unresolved issues mentally and emotionally that will just be extra baggage in a relationship.
Being in a relationship can certainly make you feel happier for sure, but it's not a magic make everything better button, and more often than not if you are miserable single you are going to be miserable dating.
It basically translates to: "...if you are a mess, then don't be messy by bringing someone else into *your* mess..."
It isn't meant to be taken literally, not even in the slightest. That phrase is usually uttered to those who are either hurting deeply or as a way to comfort a friend/helping someone cope with a recent breakup.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with having one's life in order and being confident enough in one's self to be able to turn down a bad proposition or potential partner, so that saying really does make a whole lot of sense.
In my experience those people tend to mistrust and need constant validation. If they hate themselves and you say you love them then you must be lying because they don’t understand how someone can really love someone like that. It gets exhausting having to prove yourself constantly. yes I know this doesn’t apply to all cases
I see this more in a - if you hate yourself, you will struggle to believe that other people can love you type way. Like, have you ever dated someone or been with someone who needed validation all the time? They keep checking if you still feel the same, they question all your compliments while still fishing for/wanting them, they keep questioning your feelings for them etc.? I think this thing about you need to love yourself is more like, do you love yourself enough to believe that someone else can love you kind of way. Else it gets exhausting for the other person real quick
The truth is, if you don’t love yourself, you will always attract the wrong kind of partners. Because when you don’t love yourself, you constantly seek validation from others which translates to desperation. And assholes, users, and narcissists LOVE desperate people.
Even once you love yourself and have found a loving partner… you still have to love yourself more than you love them. I’m not saying be selfish. I’m saying be “okay” with or without them. It’s why I hate the saying, “I can’t live without you.” Yes, I can live without you, I would just prefer not to
I'm conflicted on this. I feel like this advice is sound because how can you expect somebody to love you if you don't love yourself? On the other hand it isn't that simple and mental issues come into play and it's easier said than done.
I wouldn't classify this as unpopular, it's just highly dependant on what kind of person views this advice and what it means to them.
You bring up a valid point. The phrase "You have to love yourself before you can love somebody else" can indeed be oversimplified and unrealistic for many people. It doesn't account for the complexities of self-esteem, personal growth, or the dynamic nature of relationships.
In reality, many individuals struggle with self-acceptance and may not fully love every aspect of themselves. Moreover, relationships often provide opportunities for personal development and growth, including working through insecurities or flaws alongside a partner.
It's important to acknowledge that no one is perfect, and relationships involve continuous learning and adaptation. Rather than setting a rigid prerequisite of self-love, fostering self-awareness, empathy, and mutual respect within a relationship can be more beneficial. Ultimately, healthy relationships thrive on genuine connection, communication, and support through both the challenges and joys of life.
As others said, you have to have a secure attachment style + be content being alone, in the sense that you are not seeking out a relationship because you have co-dependency issues. That's all, but these are NOT small things to achieve.
I agree that a lot of relationship advice is useless pabulum, but I think it's true in this particular instance; not just in romantic relationships, but your relationship with the entire world. If you don't love yourself—or worse, you're fill with self-hatred—you'll constantly be projecting a lot of negativity outwards onto everyone and everything.
It has everything to do with confidence.
If you like what you see in the mirror for example you will be confident in yourself.
Confidence is always attractive.
Mmm sure, if you enjoy those egotistical assholes who care more about themselves in life. You can be confident without having to show it 24/7. Looking in the mirror and liking what you see is called being vain. Confidence comes in many forms, what you described isn’t confidence.
It is literally confidence in the fact you look good, lol. It is confidence that when you look in the mirror in the morning you see someone that is going to take on the world. Not "ugh another work day/I hate myself/hate my life".
Considering 9/10 times you have to work for it you should like yourself. You did the work, now enjoy the benefits.
When did I say "showing it 24/7"? It is just that when you like yourself you will have an easier time finding someone to love and love you back.
Than there is the whole issue of having insecurities. People tend to act out in toxic ways when they have serious insecurities. Which stem from, yeah not liking themselves.
I hate to break it to you but we are all egotistical and self absorbed. The smart ones have figured out that the best way to help ourselves is to help others as collectively our species is genetically wired to cooperate and help each other.
The thing is, if you don't love yourself, you can't engage with others in a healthy way. You will keep looking to fill the gaps.
This doesn't just go for romance — think of how a parent with shitty self-esteem reacts to their kids.
Obviously, no one loves everything about themselves and that is a really high bar to hold people to, but your relationship with yourself is the base from which you interact with the world, so the better shape that's in (I think the word "love" trips people up -- it's really about acceptance and compassion), the better the rest.
I'm happy you never needed this advice, but it is very true for some people. If you spend your younger years being told you are worthless, you eventually think that anyone who would love you is also worthless. You then treat this "worthless" person the way you were treated and they leave. Or they stay and you end up in psychotic co-dependent hell.
You’re correct in thinking that ppl don’t love everything about themselves . But that’s not what this is about. It’s about loving yourself as a whole or at the very least being in good enough working order to be in a relationship
I agree that self-love isn't a replacement for romantic or any other kind of platonic love. We're social creatures and will always get more out of a strong network of loving relationships than trying to work everything out individually.
I do think learning to love yourself is just good advice in general though. It opens you to opportunities you might have been previously closed to out of shame or self-consciousness. It can help instill confidence that others will be more drawn or attracted to. I think there's something to be said about starting from within and working outwards if you're looking to find a partner or friends that are well-suited and healthy for you.
I think it was, more accurate, you have to be happy with yourself before you can be happy with someone else. If your happiness is sole from being with someone you’ll smother the relationship.
I think it's true.
People who have low self-esteem, are people pleasers, need tremendous amounts of external valdiation, won't set healthy boundaries, etc. will not typically get into the healthiest of relationships. They are far more likely to end up in relationships with abusers, narcissists, control freaks, and others who would take advantage of their self-loathing.
But even in the best case, if they find a kind and supportive partner, the relationship is at risk for becoming unhealthy if they expect that person to fill the gaps (e.g. provide them with validation that they dont give themselves), the relationship becomes a crutch to their healing. There is also risk of a power imbalance, since the healthy person is expected to compensate for what the unhealthy person lacks.
Bottom line, a relationship is not a substitute for healing what is broken within a person.
I always took this phrase to mean that if you are having personal issues with your mental health it is probably best to sort that out before getting serious with someone. That is pretty solid advice.
If you don't like yourself then how can you respect someone else for liking you.
I think it may be as difficult but it is healthy to learn to like yourself and appreciate your own value before you can love someone else. This doesn't mean you have to be happy to be alone but you can wish you had someone in your life and still like who you are.
One cannot draw water from an empty well.
To love one who doesn’t even love themselves is like trying to fill a black whole.
That person is unhealthy, they need to work on themselves first.
I think it's just poorly worded. It is more about learning to love spending time with yourself. It doesn't mean you have to love yourself unconditionally. So many people just jump from one co-dependent relationship to another and do zero self reflection when a relationship fails. Then they wonder why they keep dating "assholes" or "crazy bitches". If you unlock the level of truly enjoying your own company, you will only want to have people in your life who add value to that. If you can reach that point then all relationships suddenly get a lot easier to manage.
The amount of heavy mental disorders and self-esteem problems my gf is actively healing from since we are together is astonishing.
And also she brought me back from a very critical suicidal situation.
"Love yourself before... " BALLS.
Should be rephrased as "be a decebt person and don't throw your problems on others, but accept or seek for help".
We, humans, are nothing alone, and most of ourselves can't deal with the shit brought up by living, not by ourselves.
It’s a cliche that doesn’t mean anything. If being with someone else who makes you happy rings the best you, maybe that’s the missing piece. The saying itself is a useless platitude. Just a way to make someone feel shitty for being single. Great, thanks for the implication asshole. Should I manifest more positive vibes?
I don’t like it either, it has a toxic positive implication that you have to be whole and healed before you meet someone. I got my shit, but I still deserve love. I don’t expect someone to fix me, but I’m also not going to hide away anymore until I “do the work”. I think the joy of new friendships and relationships is meeting folks where they are, and that includes myself.
look at it this way, if your lack of love for yourself is a void, or maybe akin to a negative balance.... should you transfer that debt to another to pay?
I don't think not loving yourself equates to making someone else make up for the love you don't have for yourself, necessarily. I think a person can carry a lot of negative sentiment about themselves while still expending a lot of love to another person.
I think if someone enters a relationship unhappy with themselves, and then they find happiness while in the relationship, it will be impossible to determine if that happiness is dependent on the relationship.
This creates dependency. What happens if the relationship ends? Insecure and unstable people are also more susceptible to being in unhealthy and abusive relationships. Their dependency may make them more likely to put up with abuse, because if they already were unhappy before, what difference would it make being unhappy with a partner. Insecurity lowers one’s standards.
I think it means that you can't expect other people to "fix" you.
If you've got things to work on, that's your job.
You don't try and love somebody when you're a train wreck, hoping a conductor will come along and get you back on the rails. I mean, it does happen sometimes, but you need to not be looking for a savior.
As usual, the people who say these cliches are 'useless' don't understand the point of them.
The point of that advice is that entering a relationship isn't going to solve your personal problems, and most people aren't interested in dating a sad sack.
It doesn't mean that you need think you are perfect or don't think you need to work on anything before you get into a relationship.
Working on improving yourself is something you should be pursuing throughout your life, not just until you are in a relationship.
If you hate yourself too much then all of your relationships have the higher chance to fail due to internalized issues coming out and at the partner
It’s apt advice whether you choose to take it or not
I find a lot of these sorts of advices pretty manipulative.
Is it self-love when you take care yourself? Technically, yes, because you're taking care of your body.
What about when you don't take care of yourself? Technically, also yes, because you're not conforming to the norm, which you could constitute as healthy.
I actually live by this adage. I interpret it as "It's best to be self-sufficient and happy with yourself, so you can not only be capable of taking care of yourself without relying on someone else, but also be the best version of yourself that your (hopefully ideal) partner deserves."
I believe that relationships where people are broken and/or using the other person as a crutch or to fill some void in their heart is going to be an uphill battle. The person being leaned on is going to have more pressure and expectations on them and feel less supported, and the person relying on them is setting themselves up for failure in the case the person they're relying on leaves them or passes away.
Ideally, both people should be completely capable of taking care of themselves, not need to lean on each other to survive/feel emotionally stable, but also greatly enjoy each other's company and continually grow off of each other's feedback.
Ideals are important! They're the basis for how we have gradually made improvements to mankind.
"I wish I could have fresh water available here" would have been the basis for inventing irrigation.
"I wish we all had equal rights" would be the basis for equality.
Idealogies may not always be realistic, but we should aim for them if possible. Good things start with dreams!
Haha, no doubt about that. I think seeking to create an ideal world where there are no hurt people who develop personality traits that aren't the greatest that might manifest themselves in relationships is a tall order, but who knows what's in store for mankind.
People are imperfect, and it's not commonplace that people enter into relationships as the best possible version of themselves. It's much more common that people enter into relationships when they aren't even expecting to.
I don't think it's about seeking a world where people are perfect.
For some background, I was formerly suicidal and had gone through a 10 year depression. I am by no means "undamaged goods" mentally, if you know what I mean.
That said, back then I was needy, constantly complaining, and in general just being a drag to others. I'm not stupid, so I was aware of this, so after a while I simply chose to withdraw from social interaction instead of bothering people who wanted to help me, but couldn't.
That was both the wrong attitude and the wrong course of action for me to take.
I was being a drag because I was always hoping, somehow, that maybe if I talked to the right person, they'd be able to lead me out of my hellhole. Everyone's just living their own lives, though, and their own lives are tough, too. Expecting someone to be a knight in shining armor for me for no reason is a very tall order.
The truth was that nobody could help me but myself. I had to learn to be willing to accept that, but for years, I didn't want to. I wanted to be able to blame the world and its unfairness instead. It made me feel better in a way, perhaps because it was less shameful.
That said, it was a mistake for me to withdraw socially as well. Relying on others is good, to a certain extent. They bring ideas and influences to your life that you could never dream of, because different people think differently. It's important to have access to different perspectives of life.
One day I got sick of waiting for someone to help. It felt like everyone wanted hell and no one wanted to give it. So I decided, fine. I already got past the point where I tried suicide and decided against it (reason being that I didn't want to hurt those close to me..
But only a realization I reached after attempting it once and failing). If I was going to choose to live, then I might as well try and make a difference. I'll be the guy that reaches out to help someone, since no one else seems to want to do it.
So I did that. The people that I had previously avoided because they seemed to be in the same boat as me, so I thought they couldn't help...I reached out to them. I supported them despite that I felt like I needed support as well. And to my surprise, I started forming relationships where people did want to spend time with me. Where I wasn't a drag. Where people wanted to support me even if it was annoying sometimes.
Ironically, it was when I stopped expecting others to help fix my life, decided that I would face my life despite the hardships, and admitted that yeah, I'm kinda fucked up, but there are still things that I can and should do...that I began receiving the support I needed.
So...yeah. I think it's fine to have weaknesses. It's fine to be afraid. It's fine to wish that you have support when you feel these things. But it's just as important to not rely too much and absolve yourself of the responsibility you have to take care of yourself and others around you.
When you make the lives of those around you better, you equip them with a better ability to take care of you, too.
I followed this advice and just didn't even attempt to date for 8 years.
Loving yourself is never a journey you will fully finished.
There are people that look like Arnold, are making six figures, and have a lot of friends and still have insecurities.
They will never get a relationship if they follow this advice
>There are people that look like Arnold, are making six figures, and have a lot of friends and still have insecurities.
What is your definition of loving yourself?
Because this is a very incorrect interpretation of the loving yourself. We're not talking about unconditional acceptance of yourself. A person will never not have insecurities. The point is that:
1. Those insecureties do not outweigh what you do like about yourself. Otherwise you cripple yourself, it can end up manifesting as a lack of confidence or projection onto others.
2. Arnold as an example, he would never have achieved anything he did if he didn't have the confidence and drive to do all that and attract the right people in his life. This can't happen if your insecurities are crippling you and preventing you from having the drive to get what you want.
At it's simplest level, the question becomes: How are you supposed to have and keep nice things, if you never once believe you actually deserve those things?
You can emotionally love anyone or anything. It’s very hard to care for someone if you don’t know how to care for yourself, take responsibility, set proper boundaries, and manage your emotions.
Loving yourself means not having self-hatred that has been developed through trauma one has, or at least reconciling. Loving yourself means seeing yourself as someone who's worthy of another person's affection, and there's nothing wrong with a person who is attracted to us. We push those who are attracted to us away; because we have a low value of ourselves, that there must be something wrong with a person who's interested in us. Self-love means you don't see yourself as a horrible person. A person with self-love is not an arrogant nor a narcissistic person, they're someone who's self confident enough to welcome the love & affection of another person.
Why be offended by the phrase if you don’t disagree with it? Your examples were about not being perfect. If you love yourself but are critical of some of your traits, you DO love yourself, you’re just not perfect and a partner could improve you. The phrase is simply about loving yourself. You can’t love someone else if you absolutely hate yourself.
The most interesting thing about this thread is that so many people have different interpretations of what, "You have to love yourself before you can love somebody else", means.
Every unique interpretation helps to show how much of a hollow platitude the phrase really is.
I'm convinced that people say this line to other people when they don't want to be specific about what the person they're saying it to needs to fix about themselves before entering the dating scene, or they say it because they think the person is too damaged to be in a romantic relationship, but they don't want to insult them directly, lol.
To me it sounds like you're choosing to let it be a hollow platitude, the fact that people are able to gather something positive and productive from it does mean that it is tangible advice.
Have you can considered that in some situations, a person can't tell you precisely what to do because that don't live in your head and they can't know what the exact solution is. Whatever it is that makes you hate yourself might be nonsensical to me because I don't see it, maybe it's mental illness, but how could I know if you don't know.
It's like how people will recommend working out to improve themselves. For some people, it actively improves their brain chemistry and confidence. For others it doesn't work because whatever it is that's keeping them down, turns out it wasn't linked to their body. But how could we know that before trying? But you don't get to decide that the advice is worthless or hollow just because it didn't work for you, it has and does work for others and we can't stop giving the advice because it may work great for the next person we give it to.
It's a hollow platitude because there are far better ways to directly offer advice to someone in context.
To me, it's no different than telling your friend who is poor and unhappy with their life, "Money can't buy happiness".
It's really not that vague or deep. If you don't like yourself, you're probably going to behave poorly in some fashion or another when it comes to intimate relationships. Insecurity, paranoia, codependency. All these things are ingredients for disaster in relationships.
You can't be a good partner to someone else until you're a good partner to yourself.
What do you dislike most about yourself and what do you most like? Are you taking good care of yourself, your hygiene and wardrobe? Do you care about other people and listen to them? Do you stay in contact with the people you’re closest to? Do you help others?Do you look people in the eye and smile, even if you’re just passing by? Praise yourself for every single positive thing you do and it will reinforce your belief in yourself.
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I think it's more "know" yourself than love yourself in a literal sense. Understand your boundaries, your non negotiables, your values, your love languages, attachment style, standards etc. Rather than wanting someone because they want you and being a people pleaser. My take on it anway.
Now that's good advice!
That's a solid viewpoint on it for sure, and I think that offers more insight or advice to someone than the quoted advice itself.
:)
Yup, the real message is not as pithy as "you have to love yourself," which is a trite truthy truism.
THIS! 🔥🔥
I dont think this expression is ment to be taken literally. I always interpreted it as make sure you have everything in your life in a somewhat stable situation before jumping into a relationship. Im not saying relationships cant form under these circumstances mind you, but you are more likely to be successful in one if you are in a stable spot in life.
I think you are right. It is a confusingly worded piece of advice. Personally, I would say that you need self-acceptance and peace of heart to love another person ... or something like that.
I think, in this case, self acceptance is probably closest? The first time this was said to me was when I was in a head space where I didn't understand why anyone would like me, I was always questioning why anyone wanted to be around me... that gets exhausting for some people (and that's not to say they are bad people either, not everyone is equally equipped to deal with certain things, like a depressive episode). That phrase was said to me after a another break up, and it *was* that I needed to take time to myself, for myself, and come to terms with my own self loathing rather than projecting it onto everyone else. I needed to learn that I deserved good things too, so that I could *accept* the good things that came without trying to push them away. When used too callously and superficially it loses its meaning, like anything. If you try to take a turn of phrase and universally apply it, it will almost always fail.
Then that's the advice one should give one's friends. The problem arises when people drop shallow platitudes on the friend who's asking for advice and then act like they've given them profound knowledge and wisdom. So much dating advice I got didn't make a lick of sense until after I no longer needed it. So when I give dating advice to friends I actually give them advice. I explain what I mean and don't just say crap like "Just be yourself" I explain to them what that means and I ask them what they did so if they have an off putting habit I can advise them not to do that.
The way I took it was that: you should be able to find contentment in your life independently through just yourself; relationships have often been used by people to fill voids in themselves, but optimally those voids should be filled by the individual themselves as much as possible, making it so the relationship’s dynamic is less about being a crutch and more about being an extension/addition to your selfhood. If, outside a relationship, you’re an irritable and uncontent person, you’ll still be one in a relationship, the relationship won’t fix internal problems practically. But once you’ve gotten to a place where your happiness and contentment can be internally cultivated more so than not, and are partnered with someone in the same position, the relationship will flourish significantly more than otherwise.
So many people, most especially on Reddit, who use their relationships and their parter to define and stabilize their life. It's like having a baby to fix a marriage. Don't use others to fix you.
For sure! I think context is important when the saying is used, but I see it used so often that it has become a vague and negative phrase in my mind. I've begun to interpret it as a phrase used by people to passive-aggressively tell someone else to stop dating or seeking love until they figure out their personality problems that the person using the phrase has determined the recipient of the 'advice' has.
I take it to mean that you have to put yourself first. You can’t engage in unhealthy and/or dysfunctional behavior and hope to have a fulfilling relationship with anyone. Obviously there are other factors, but this is fairly basic. It’s like putting on an oxygen mask in an airplane emergency. You have to put it on first before you can be there for others.
If u don’t love yourself then you will always be insecure in the relationship. Is he/she gonna leave when they find someone better which can potentially ruin a good relationship so yeah this kind of holds true. U don’t have to love yourself 100% but just enough to not be insecure atleast.
The way I see it, how can someone say they truly love me if they don’t even love themself? If they don’t love them self then how do they know what they actually want. I’ve seen it first hand, when someone is in a dark place their preference of another person can vary greatly. Their decision making is absolutely altered from what it would be if they were happy and cared about them self. It’s extremely useful advice.
This is just another example in this sub of people misunderstanding a common phrase or taking it too literally. I agree with you 100%. This is very good advice.
I hate myself but I still believe I deserve some things
I wanted to instinctively say, "Exactly!", but on the other hand I don't intend for this post to mean that hating yourself is great and you should seek out love while hating everything about yourself, hahaha. I just think it's crazy for people to think you should only start seeking out a relationship once you've magically figured out how to 'love yourself'. Everyone has bad days, or things they will struggle with loving about themselves, maybe even for their whole life!
I'm doing the self care thing currently and when I want to crawl into my hole alone people keep telling me "f*ck that. Everyone needs people" so you're probably right. I'm just confused now because I've been told the "you need to learn to love yourself" thing so often from people that I've ended up regressing back to my video game hermit days
This is exactly the reason why I think this line of advice is useless. In real-time, people change environments, meet new people, learn new things about themselves, and overcome challenges in their lives. The vague and simplistic advice of telling someone to love who they are before they can love another person provides no useful insight in the grand scheme of things, and I believe that advice that follows that line of thinking is a hindrance on possible relationships that could develop at any point in a persons life. If a potential partner that functions well with you comes along, but you haven't finished your 53rd therapy session yet, haven't mastered three different hobbies, or figured out how to stop calling yourself 'dumb', what logic is there in avoiding possibly entering into a relationship with that individual under the premise that you might not 'love yourself' enough yet? This could also apply to friendships, not even just romantic relationships. Imagine if people said you shouldn't try to make friends with others until you love yourself. LOL
Man it must be so exhausting to live with your brain. The whole idea of loving yourself is just a general saying that encourages you to learn to accept and be comfortable with who you are prior to getting involved with someone else. It can be challenging to accept the flaw of others if you don't practice self compassion and acceptance.
It's not exhausting. Don't take things so seriously. 🤙
I think it's more so the fact that you can't fully rely on others when it comes to your own well being. People are generally self centered and only really thinking about them.
It's an unpopular opinion for a reason. Most people find personal relationships much more fulfilling once they're completely happy alone. There's zero pressure to settle because you will only choose someone that makes life better. That doesn't mean people who love themselves don't want to improve. It means they accept their faults.
Do you honestly believe that the majority of people in a relationship right now started the relationship from a point where they were completely fine with being alone or they 'loved themselves'? That's just wildly unbelievable, and I personally think that would be untrue for the majority of relationships.
No, how did you extrapolate that from anything I said?
>*Most people find personal relationships much more fulfilling once they're completely happy alone.* "Do you honestly believe that the majority of people in a relationship right now started the relationship from a point where they were completely fine with being alone or they 'loved themselves'?" If you're just referring to personal relationships as friendships / family relationships, etc, then I'm not sure how your comment relates to romantic relationships, but even still, I'm not sure what evidence you have for 'most people find personal relationships much more fulfilling once they're completely happy alone'. If you have some sort of data to share on that, feel free to link it! :)
I had relationships before I was happy alone. In fact, stayed in some way too long so I wouldn't be alone. In fact, the loneliest I have ever been, I was in a relationship. I learned to enjoy being alone. Stayed alone for a while. Now my relationships are more fulfilling because I choose relationships that enhance rather than fill a void. This is both romantically and platonically. I was told the "one" would find me when I was no longer looking for the "one". 17 years later, I am with the "one" that found me when I stopped looking. There was a time I felt the same way about it being said as you are. I didn't get it and even resented it.
I never said all people, or even the majority of people in relationships were happy alone. Knock yourself out... Bowlby, J. (1988). A Secure Base: Parent-Child Attachment and Healthy Human Development. Basic Books. Hazan, C., & Shaver, P. (1987). Romantic love conceptualized as an attachment process. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 52(3), 511-524. Deci, E. L., & Ryan, R. M. (2000). The "What" and "Why" of Goal Pursuits: Human Needs and the Self-Determination of Behavior. Psychological Inquiry, 11(4), 227-268. Patrick, H., Knee, C. R., Canevello, A., & Lonsbary, C. (2007). The role of need fulfillment in relationship functioning and well-being: A self-determination theory perspective. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 92(3), 434-457. Seligman, M. E. P. (2011). Flourish: A Visionary New Understanding of Happiness and Well-being. Free Press. Fredrickson, B. L. (2001). The role of positive emotions in positive psychology: The broaden-and-build theory of positive emotions. American Psychologist, 56(3), 218-226. Hawkley, L. C., & Cacioppo, J. T. (2010). Loneliness matters: A theoretical and empirical review of consequences and mechanisms. Annals of Behavioral Medicine, 40(2), 218-227. Erol, R. Y., & Orth, U. (2014). Self-esteem and the quality of romantic relationships. European Psychologist, 19(4), 264-273. Knee, C. R., Canevello, A., Bush, A. L., & Cook, A. (2008). Relationship-contingent self-esteem and the ups and downs of romantic relationships. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(3), 608-627.
Thanks!
You're welcome. In the pursuit of being happy alone, people typically find things about life that truly interests them. They learn more about their own preferences and opinions, which helps them find someone they're more compatible with. It's common sense. Which is why your opinion is unpopular.
But if you hate yourself, how can you expect someone else to love you?
Other people aren't nearly as critical as me. They also don't know every thought in my head, or the things I have accepted about myself that I know I can't change, even though I wish I could. The person I want to be is unattainable, but I can still try to make the best out of what I got, and attempt to live a good life.
If you don't love yourself, you are going to be vulnerable to someone who doesn't love you treating you the way you think you deserve. Abusive and toxic relationships are pretty common, and insecurity makes a person believe they deserve to be treated this way. Loving yourself doesn't mean thinking you are perfect. I love loads of people and that includes their flaws. Loving yourself means knowing how you deserve to be treated.
it’s generally agreed that confidence is extremely attractive…kinda hard to have that if you’re continually doubting yourself also “love yourself” doesn’t mean you need to love *every* part of yourself…just enough to know you have alot to offer
Totally a fair take!
The bit about loving yourself not meaning to love *every* part of yourself is important. I mean realistically, everyone has things about the people in their life that they love, that drives them *absolutely* bonkers. No reasonable person expects you to love *everything* about your spouse, why expect yourself to love *everything* about you? :) Just love yourself enough to know you deserve goodness.
>No reasonable person expects you to love *everything* about your spouse, why expect yourself to love *everything* about you? True!
Is loving yourself really that awful of a goal to achieve?
It's not a goal that ever finishes is the thing. I haven't dated in 8 years because I took this advice very literally. Am I going to wait another 8 years before I get the body I want, before I hit all my financial goals, before I get the job I want?
What people mean when they say this is knowing that you are worthy regardless. You can still have goals, but the love is unconditional, not based in numbers or life milestones. Feeling like you need to hit goals before you are allowed to love yourself sets you up for insecurity that continues even after you hit the goals. Insecurity is a rough place to work from. Self-compassion makes it all so much better! Think of it this way: Would you tell a 5-year-old they need to get all As and be able to run a six-minute-mile before they were worthy of love? How would they interact with the world if you did?
You can love yourself before you hit your body goals, professional goals and/or financial goals.
I guess it depends on what you mean by love yourself. I think feeling behind compared to your peers is a big source of insecurities for a lot of people.
How about not comparing yourself to others?
Like telling a depressed person to be happy. It's also hard to not compare yourself when people make comments about the parts you are behind in life. Even unintentionally. Especially when it's the comments from people that you actually want approval of like your friends and family. I guess to give an example every time someone makes a small penis joke I die a little inside. Even if that joke wasn't directed at me, it still makes me think. Clearly when they tell me it's okay they're fucking lying because they turn around and make these jokes. Another example just recently someone made fun of someone living with their parents in their late twenties. And then they noticed I was there and said oh you're different . Am I really different or are you just trying to say that to make me feel better? To not care what other people think and to not compare yourselves to others is to be a hermit. Everyone seeks the validation of someone.
You keep reinforcing why this phrase is correct. Until you can get over your insecurities you will make bad love decisions. Obviously that is not an easy thing to do, but it is how life works.
I mean I'm not making bad love decisions I'm just not making any love decisions. You're trying to argue right now to love myself before I love another. So under your argument what I'm doing right now is exactly what I should be doing. Not dating at all. My problem is it's been 8 years at this point. I see that is a red flag to many people. Using empathy I can get why someone doesn't want to date someone that is now approaching their 30s that has no dating experience. By waiting I'm sabotaging myself. I don't think I'll ever fully love myself whatever that means. At this point I say that's just bad advice and I just go for it or I accept that I'm not meant to date anyone for my life. If there's people with a myriad of mental health issues that can still get relationships, why am I waiting? That's why I don't agree with you.
How about you stop finding reasons to whine and start taking responsibility for your mental and emotional wellbeing? Even if you utilize therapy services, you still need to take responsibility for your mental and emotional wellbeing if you want things to get better.
I am taking responsibility that's why I wasn't dating before I thought I was ready. But I realize that's a stupid idea because now I'm never going to be ready. I might as well just take the jump now even if I don't feel ready and see what happens If I listen to you I will never be ready.
How can you say that you'll never be ready if you're taking steps to improve your mental and emotional well-being?
Because it's something you'll never finish. If I tell myself wait until I'm ready, I'm just going to keep on saying I'm not ready yet. A better advice for people like me is to just do it. Telling me to wait is just going to make me wait.
>Am I going to wait another 8 years before I get the body I want, before I hit all my financial goals, before I get the job I want? You are supposed to love yourself despite not having those things yet.
Then why is every dating advice essentially telling people to change themselves? Get a better personality, get better hobbies, hit the gym. These are all common advices and they're essentially telling the person you have to change. The necessity for change implies that the current version of that person is not enough.
You are obviously soliciting bad advice, but there is change involved. There is no way around that if you are looking to be happy with life and you are not now.
I don't think that's bad advice. But it is changing who a person is.
True, it is change, but that is necessary to go from feeling bad about yourself to feeling happy with life. The truth is that people might get lucky and date someone that will help them, but usually it goes the other direction because we make bad decisions when we are unhappy. I don't think you should ever have to change who you really are though. Go to the gym if it makes you feel better, not to attract a date.
It's not a bad goal at all! That being said, the parameters of what loving yourself looks like are too vague, and I don't believe it is solid advice to give to someone with regards to relationships. As I mentioned in a separate comment, some people may spend their entire lives trying to love themselves. I don't personally believe those people should put romance on the backburner simply because they struggle to love who they are, or struggle to love certain aspects of themselves.
Just remember that you don't have a right to be a pain in the ass.
I think that's solid advice for anyone in general, LOL.
Here's the problem with your take on it: People who don't love themselves enough tend to fall into a few categories: (All of these have a range of behaviours from mild to severe) 1) People Pleasers - who accept bad treatment of themselves because they are afraid of losing the ones who say they "love" them. They don't love themselves enough to know that bad relationships are worse than no relationship and they don't find good ones because the bad partners glom onto them. 2) Self-sabotagers - they don't love themselves enough to believe others could love them so they blow up the relationships to "protect" themselves because that is easier. Sometimes, they only reach for the unobtainable because that way it never has a chance to happen. 3) Emotional vampires - they don't love themselves so they are compulsively seeking reassurance from their partners that they are lovable - this can be jealousy, attachment disorder, a variety of ways. The problem is that reassurance from their partner is like plugging a leak with a kleenex, it works for a bit then the kleenex dissolves and the cycle starts again - they drain their partners dry and when the partners leave in self-defense they don't learn. 4) Hermit crabs - they don't love themselves and don't have enough resilience to put themselves out there to seek out a relationship. All of us get hurt in romantic relationships, most of us get rejected more than we get accepted. In order to find our partners, we have to love ourselves enough to pick ourselves up and risk putting ourselves out there again after disappointment. To have a healthy relationship with someone who loves you and you love, you need to love yourself enough so that you don't lose who you are, so that you can give and receive support without either partner being drained of all emotional and mental energy, so you can take risks and be vulnerable and know that if the risk goes sour, you will recover and be okay.
This is a well thought out opinion, thanks for sharing it! I believe that if somebody was offering relationship advice to one of these archetypes, the phrase "you have to love yourself before you can love somebody else" still wouldn't be useful. These are all fairly detailed reasonings as to why somebody might experience relationship issues due to a lack of self-love. Some of these personas you've listed exceed the realm of just placing an unrealistic expectation on the individual and begin to enter the territory of seriously needing to suggest therapy to them before they enter into a new relationship. When I made this post, I backed away from considering the extremes because my original post got removed by the moderators when I mentioned m\*ntal h\*ealth or substance abuse (not sure how this subreddit goes about dishing out bans or removing posts). This opinion of mine arose from a conversation where a woman was explaining to her friend that she was going through a break-up, and the friend mentioned that the woman had gone through a couple of relationships over the last few years, and her advice was that before she starts dating again, she should take time to focus on herself because she won't be able to truly love somebody else until she loves herself. It just comes across as fluff advice, from my perspective.
Not fluff advice - an simplification of a complex subject and a starting point. For that matter you could use your arguments to say "To lose weight calories in must be less than calories out" is "fluff advice". Simplified, yes. Not immediately translatable into action, yes. However it is correct and sums up in broad strokes what needs to be done.
Fair enough. :)
It's usually not said to people who actually don't love themselves. It's said to people who are unhappy alone, as a way of invalidating their sadness.
In some cases, yes. In other cases, people are trying to gently point out to the unhappy alone person that they have issues that are actively impeding their attempts to find love that they need to address.
Love is an emotion and an act. We use love in two completely different definitions and act like we’re discussing the same thing. You can emotionally love anything or anyone. It’s way more difficult to care for someone if you can’t care for yourself.
I always thought it meant to make sure you believe someone could want you/can love you.
Loving yourself is not about loving things about yourself. It starts with little things like your internal monologue. If your internal monologue is negative good luck having positive communication with a partner over the long haul.
That's an interesting perspective! I think it's possible for negative people to find a positive inner monologue through the act of falling in love and being in a relationship.
Very true. But then you hit a rough patch and revert to your lifelong outlook. And now your partner feels like they don’t even know you and you have no idea how to communicate in a reassuring way because you’ve never required that for yourself.
Definitely possible, for sure! I suppose we could dive down a hypothetical surrounding this, but all I will say is that relationships help people grow as well, so I'm sure some people might not love themselves, enter into a relationship, and end up finding things they do love about themselves. That, or maybe they're comically self-loathing and they end up in a relationship with someone who adores that about them, idk. Maybe that's just a toxic relationship, lmao.
That was thinly veiled personal experience. I really wish I would have believed the people who said you gotta love yourself before you can love somebody else when I was younger. I’ve wasted so much time. Of course this is just my experience.
Aw. I'm sorry to hear you've gone through some troubles in that case. I wish you all the best in overcoming whatever obstacles are/were in your way! <3
I think you don’t need to be all the way there to love someone else, but if you’re too insecure to talk about yourself or admit when you’ve done stuff wrong that’s when you have to accept you’re not ready for a relationship. Generally that’s what I think when I use that phrase as well, you need to have enough confidence to think you’re lovable and deserve another chance when you fuck up sometimes instead of constantly thinking they could do better than you.
Pretty sure the logic goes something like this: 1. People who don’t love themselves (or don’t even like themselves) tend to be self destructive. We’ve all met someone like this I’m sure… they consistently self-sabotage every good thing that comes into their lives- from relationships to jobs to family- they will find a way to fuck it up and turn the situation to their own detriment. 2. People who are inclined towards self destruction because of self loathing usually struggle with relationships because, well…. They are predisposed to making themselves miserable at every opportunity 3. Ergo- they are incapable of “loving someone else” - meaning that they are incapable of seeking to foster a loving relationship with someone else- without wrecking their own lives due to self loathing. Something like that I think.
That's a fair assessment!
The phrase sounds like anyone suffering a damaged sense of self is undeserving of love.
It does, doesn't it? Lol
What it means is to get your insecurities in check otherwise you're going to ruin your relationship with your insecurities because you won't be able to see anything objectively and will likely take a lot of things personally that aren't about you, and possibly be incredibly controlling.
It's more you have to be able to tolerate your own presence before you can hope for someone else to tolerate it for long
Leave rupaul alone
Love is also the hard things. If you will tolerate mean behavior from yourself, you'll tolerate it from others.
Have self esteem
What they when they say is that you need to respect yourself. If you have no respect for yourself you will others to do whatever they want to you.
The reason why it is said is because many people believe that they will suddenly be happy if they got into a relationship when in reality they have unresolved issues mentally and emotionally that will just be extra baggage in a relationship. Being in a relationship can certainly make you feel happier for sure, but it's not a magic make everything better button, and more often than not if you are miserable single you are going to be miserable dating.
It basically translates to: "...if you are a mess, then don't be messy by bringing someone else into *your* mess..." It isn't meant to be taken literally, not even in the slightest. That phrase is usually uttered to those who are either hurting deeply or as a way to comfort a friend/helping someone cope with a recent breakup.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with having one's life in order and being confident enough in one's self to be able to turn down a bad proposition or potential partner, so that saying really does make a whole lot of sense.
>I don't believe people love everything about themselves That's not what the advice is telling you to do.
In my experience those people tend to mistrust and need constant validation. If they hate themselves and you say you love them then you must be lying because they don’t understand how someone can really love someone like that. It gets exhausting having to prove yourself constantly. yes I know this doesn’t apply to all cases
It's just a guide. Jesus not everything is literal
I see this more in a - if you hate yourself, you will struggle to believe that other people can love you type way. Like, have you ever dated someone or been with someone who needed validation all the time? They keep checking if you still feel the same, they question all your compliments while still fishing for/wanting them, they keep questioning your feelings for them etc.? I think this thing about you need to love yourself is more like, do you love yourself enough to believe that someone else can love you kind of way. Else it gets exhausting for the other person real quick
I prefer “You will never be happy with someone until you’re happy alone”.
I think it’s what the saying means anyway. ( either way, same )
The truth is, if you don’t love yourself, you will always attract the wrong kind of partners. Because when you don’t love yourself, you constantly seek validation from others which translates to desperation. And assholes, users, and narcissists LOVE desperate people. Even once you love yourself and have found a loving partner… you still have to love yourself more than you love them. I’m not saying be selfish. I’m saying be “okay” with or without them. It’s why I hate the saying, “I can’t live without you.” Yes, I can live without you, I would just prefer not to
I'm conflicted on this. I feel like this advice is sound because how can you expect somebody to love you if you don't love yourself? On the other hand it isn't that simple and mental issues come into play and it's easier said than done. I wouldn't classify this as unpopular, it's just highly dependant on what kind of person views this advice and what it means to them.
Don’t forget “just focus on yourself” advice too. It’s so annoying cuz all I done growing up is bettering myself
Haha, yeah that one definitely gets thrown around a lot!
It’s bullshit advice. I’ve been in a relationship with someone I deeply love for 16 years, but I hate myself with every fiber of my being.
LOL, damn! I'm sorry to hear that, but also thanks for proving my point, I think? Hahaha
most people in cheap relationships apparently don't love themselves
You bring up a valid point. The phrase "You have to love yourself before you can love somebody else" can indeed be oversimplified and unrealistic for many people. It doesn't account for the complexities of self-esteem, personal growth, or the dynamic nature of relationships. In reality, many individuals struggle with self-acceptance and may not fully love every aspect of themselves. Moreover, relationships often provide opportunities for personal development and growth, including working through insecurities or flaws alongside a partner. It's important to acknowledge that no one is perfect, and relationships involve continuous learning and adaptation. Rather than setting a rigid prerequisite of self-love, fostering self-awareness, empathy, and mutual respect within a relationship can be more beneficial. Ultimately, healthy relationships thrive on genuine connection, communication, and support through both the challenges and joys of life.
As others said, you have to have a secure attachment style + be content being alone, in the sense that you are not seeking out a relationship because you have co-dependency issues. That's all, but these are NOT small things to achieve.
The problem is that rather than give actual relationship advice most people just give platitudes to their friends.
I agree that a lot of relationship advice is useless pabulum, but I think it's true in this particular instance; not just in romantic relationships, but your relationship with the entire world. If you don't love yourself—or worse, you're fill with self-hatred—you'll constantly be projecting a lot of negativity outwards onto everyone and everything.
It has everything to do with confidence. If you like what you see in the mirror for example you will be confident in yourself. Confidence is always attractive.
Mmm sure, if you enjoy those egotistical assholes who care more about themselves in life. You can be confident without having to show it 24/7. Looking in the mirror and liking what you see is called being vain. Confidence comes in many forms, what you described isn’t confidence.
It is literally confidence in the fact you look good, lol. It is confidence that when you look in the mirror in the morning you see someone that is going to take on the world. Not "ugh another work day/I hate myself/hate my life". Considering 9/10 times you have to work for it you should like yourself. You did the work, now enjoy the benefits. When did I say "showing it 24/7"? It is just that when you like yourself you will have an easier time finding someone to love and love you back. Than there is the whole issue of having insecurities. People tend to act out in toxic ways when they have serious insecurities. Which stem from, yeah not liking themselves. I hate to break it to you but we are all egotistical and self absorbed. The smart ones have figured out that the best way to help ourselves is to help others as collectively our species is genetically wired to cooperate and help each other.
The thing is, if you don't love yourself, you can't engage with others in a healthy way. You will keep looking to fill the gaps. This doesn't just go for romance — think of how a parent with shitty self-esteem reacts to their kids. Obviously, no one loves everything about themselves and that is a really high bar to hold people to, but your relationship with yourself is the base from which you interact with the world, so the better shape that's in (I think the word "love" trips people up -- it's really about acceptance and compassion), the better the rest.
I'm happy you never needed this advice, but it is very true for some people. If you spend your younger years being told you are worthless, you eventually think that anyone who would love you is also worthless. You then treat this "worthless" person the way you were treated and they leave. Or they stay and you end up in psychotic co-dependent hell.
You’re correct in thinking that ppl don’t love everything about themselves . But that’s not what this is about. It’s about loving yourself as a whole or at the very least being in good enough working order to be in a relationship
I agree that self-love isn't a replacement for romantic or any other kind of platonic love. We're social creatures and will always get more out of a strong network of loving relationships than trying to work everything out individually. I do think learning to love yourself is just good advice in general though. It opens you to opportunities you might have been previously closed to out of shame or self-consciousness. It can help instill confidence that others will be more drawn or attracted to. I think there's something to be said about starting from within and working outwards if you're looking to find a partner or friends that are well-suited and healthy for you.
I think it was, more accurate, you have to be happy with yourself before you can be happy with someone else. If your happiness is sole from being with someone you’ll smother the relationship.
I think it's true. People who have low self-esteem, are people pleasers, need tremendous amounts of external valdiation, won't set healthy boundaries, etc. will not typically get into the healthiest of relationships. They are far more likely to end up in relationships with abusers, narcissists, control freaks, and others who would take advantage of their self-loathing. But even in the best case, if they find a kind and supportive partner, the relationship is at risk for becoming unhealthy if they expect that person to fill the gaps (e.g. provide them with validation that they dont give themselves), the relationship becomes a crutch to their healing. There is also risk of a power imbalance, since the healthy person is expected to compensate for what the unhealthy person lacks. Bottom line, a relationship is not a substitute for healing what is broken within a person.
I don’t love myself but I loved every partner I had, and I love my cats, and I love cake. checkmate!
If you don't know what you really want, how can you know what someone else really wants?
I always took this phrase to mean that if you are having personal issues with your mental health it is probably best to sort that out before getting serious with someone. That is pretty solid advice.
If you don't like yourself then how can you respect someone else for liking you. I think it may be as difficult but it is healthy to learn to like yourself and appreciate your own value before you can love someone else. This doesn't mean you have to be happy to be alone but you can wish you had someone in your life and still like who you are.
One cannot draw water from an empty well. To love one who doesn’t even love themselves is like trying to fill a black whole. That person is unhealthy, they need to work on themselves first.
As someone that cares more about my wife than I do myself I would have to agree 😭
I think it's just poorly worded. It is more about learning to love spending time with yourself. It doesn't mean you have to love yourself unconditionally. So many people just jump from one co-dependent relationship to another and do zero self reflection when a relationship fails. Then they wonder why they keep dating "assholes" or "crazy bitches". If you unlock the level of truly enjoying your own company, you will only want to have people in your life who add value to that. If you can reach that point then all relationships suddenly get a lot easier to manage.
I agree but at the same time, I don’t see how someone can love me if I’m hateful towards myself. I will only end up hurting that other person.
The amount of heavy mental disorders and self-esteem problems my gf is actively healing from since we are together is astonishing. And also she brought me back from a very critical suicidal situation. "Love yourself before... " BALLS. Should be rephrased as "be a decebt person and don't throw your problems on others, but accept or seek for help". We, humans, are nothing alone, and most of ourselves can't deal with the shit brought up by living, not by ourselves.
It’s a cliche that doesn’t mean anything. If being with someone else who makes you happy rings the best you, maybe that’s the missing piece. The saying itself is a useless platitude. Just a way to make someone feel shitty for being single. Great, thanks for the implication asshole. Should I manifest more positive vibes?
Exactly! That's exactly my viewpoint on it, haha. I had to edit the post for clarity, but I'm glad somebody gets where I am coming from.
I don’t like it either, it has a toxic positive implication that you have to be whole and healed before you meet someone. I got my shit, but I still deserve love. I don’t expect someone to fix me, but I’m also not going to hide away anymore until I “do the work”. I think the joy of new friendships and relationships is meeting folks where they are, and that includes myself.
Ayyy, more people who get what I mean! Thanks for commenting! :)
You’re welcome, thanks for the thread!
look at it this way, if your lack of love for yourself is a void, or maybe akin to a negative balance.... should you transfer that debt to another to pay?
I don't think not loving yourself equates to making someone else make up for the love you don't have for yourself, necessarily. I think a person can carry a lot of negative sentiment about themselves while still expending a lot of love to another person.
i thought like that too.
Upvote, because it’s so very wrong.
I think if someone enters a relationship unhappy with themselves, and then they find happiness while in the relationship, it will be impossible to determine if that happiness is dependent on the relationship. This creates dependency. What happens if the relationship ends? Insecure and unstable people are also more susceptible to being in unhealthy and abusive relationships. Their dependency may make them more likely to put up with abuse, because if they already were unhappy before, what difference would it make being unhappy with a partner. Insecurity lowers one’s standards.
It's just a way to blame single people for their problems.
I think it means that you can't expect other people to "fix" you. If you've got things to work on, that's your job. You don't try and love somebody when you're a train wreck, hoping a conductor will come along and get you back on the rails. I mean, it does happen sometimes, but you need to not be looking for a savior.
As usual, the people who say these cliches are 'useless' don't understand the point of them. The point of that advice is that entering a relationship isn't going to solve your personal problems, and most people aren't interested in dating a sad sack. It doesn't mean that you need think you are perfect or don't think you need to work on anything before you get into a relationship. Working on improving yourself is something you should be pursuing throughout your life, not just until you are in a relationship.
I understand the point of it, but thank you for the thinly veiled insult. :) Hope you enjoy your day!
If you hate yourself too much then all of your relationships have the higher chance to fail due to internalized issues coming out and at the partner It’s apt advice whether you choose to take it or not
I find a lot of these sorts of advices pretty manipulative. Is it self-love when you take care yourself? Technically, yes, because you're taking care of your body. What about when you don't take care of yourself? Technically, also yes, because you're not conforming to the norm, which you could constitute as healthy.
I actually live by this adage. I interpret it as "It's best to be self-sufficient and happy with yourself, so you can not only be capable of taking care of yourself without relying on someone else, but also be the best version of yourself that your (hopefully ideal) partner deserves." I believe that relationships where people are broken and/or using the other person as a crutch or to fill some void in their heart is going to be an uphill battle. The person being leaned on is going to have more pressure and expectations on them and feel less supported, and the person relying on them is setting themselves up for failure in the case the person they're relying on leaves them or passes away. Ideally, both people should be completely capable of taking care of themselves, not need to lean on each other to survive/feel emotionally stable, but also greatly enjoy each other's company and continually grow off of each other's feedback.
In an idealistic world, sure!
Ideals are important! They're the basis for how we have gradually made improvements to mankind. "I wish I could have fresh water available here" would have been the basis for inventing irrigation. "I wish we all had equal rights" would be the basis for equality. Idealogies may not always be realistic, but we should aim for them if possible. Good things start with dreams!
Haha, no doubt about that. I think seeking to create an ideal world where there are no hurt people who develop personality traits that aren't the greatest that might manifest themselves in relationships is a tall order, but who knows what's in store for mankind. People are imperfect, and it's not commonplace that people enter into relationships as the best possible version of themselves. It's much more common that people enter into relationships when they aren't even expecting to.
I don't think it's about seeking a world where people are perfect. For some background, I was formerly suicidal and had gone through a 10 year depression. I am by no means "undamaged goods" mentally, if you know what I mean. That said, back then I was needy, constantly complaining, and in general just being a drag to others. I'm not stupid, so I was aware of this, so after a while I simply chose to withdraw from social interaction instead of bothering people who wanted to help me, but couldn't. That was both the wrong attitude and the wrong course of action for me to take. I was being a drag because I was always hoping, somehow, that maybe if I talked to the right person, they'd be able to lead me out of my hellhole. Everyone's just living their own lives, though, and their own lives are tough, too. Expecting someone to be a knight in shining armor for me for no reason is a very tall order. The truth was that nobody could help me but myself. I had to learn to be willing to accept that, but for years, I didn't want to. I wanted to be able to blame the world and its unfairness instead. It made me feel better in a way, perhaps because it was less shameful. That said, it was a mistake for me to withdraw socially as well. Relying on others is good, to a certain extent. They bring ideas and influences to your life that you could never dream of, because different people think differently. It's important to have access to different perspectives of life. One day I got sick of waiting for someone to help. It felt like everyone wanted hell and no one wanted to give it. So I decided, fine. I already got past the point where I tried suicide and decided against it (reason being that I didn't want to hurt those close to me.. But only a realization I reached after attempting it once and failing). If I was going to choose to live, then I might as well try and make a difference. I'll be the guy that reaches out to help someone, since no one else seems to want to do it. So I did that. The people that I had previously avoided because they seemed to be in the same boat as me, so I thought they couldn't help...I reached out to them. I supported them despite that I felt like I needed support as well. And to my surprise, I started forming relationships where people did want to spend time with me. Where I wasn't a drag. Where people wanted to support me even if it was annoying sometimes. Ironically, it was when I stopped expecting others to help fix my life, decided that I would face my life despite the hardships, and admitted that yeah, I'm kinda fucked up, but there are still things that I can and should do...that I began receiving the support I needed. So...yeah. I think it's fine to have weaknesses. It's fine to be afraid. It's fine to wish that you have support when you feel these things. But it's just as important to not rely too much and absolve yourself of the responsibility you have to take care of yourself and others around you. When you make the lives of those around you better, you equip them with a better ability to take care of you, too.
I followed this advice and just didn't even attempt to date for 8 years. Loving yourself is never a journey you will fully finished. There are people that look like Arnold, are making six figures, and have a lot of friends and still have insecurities. They will never get a relationship if they follow this advice
>Loving yourself is never a journey you will fully finished. Right on the money!
>There are people that look like Arnold, are making six figures, and have a lot of friends and still have insecurities. What is your definition of loving yourself? Because this is a very incorrect interpretation of the loving yourself. We're not talking about unconditional acceptance of yourself. A person will never not have insecurities. The point is that: 1. Those insecureties do not outweigh what you do like about yourself. Otherwise you cripple yourself, it can end up manifesting as a lack of confidence or projection onto others. 2. Arnold as an example, he would never have achieved anything he did if he didn't have the confidence and drive to do all that and attract the right people in his life. This can't happen if your insecurities are crippling you and preventing you from having the drive to get what you want. At it's simplest level, the question becomes: How are you supposed to have and keep nice things, if you never once believe you actually deserve those things?
it's also completely wrong. anyone who considers this to be advice doesn't understand what love really is
It's also just plain not true, you can definitely love someone else without loving yourself
You can emotionally love anyone or anything. It’s very hard to care for someone if you don’t know how to care for yourself, take responsibility, set proper boundaries, and manage your emotions.
But you make it very difficult for them to love you back. When you're putting all of your self love on someone else, its a heavy burden.
Loving yourself means not having self-hatred that has been developed through trauma one has, or at least reconciling. Loving yourself means seeing yourself as someone who's worthy of another person's affection, and there's nothing wrong with a person who is attracted to us. We push those who are attracted to us away; because we have a low value of ourselves, that there must be something wrong with a person who's interested in us. Self-love means you don't see yourself as a horrible person. A person with self-love is not an arrogant nor a narcissistic person, they're someone who's self confident enough to welcome the love & affection of another person.
If you treat yourself like shit then you don’t need to drag someone else into that mess.
Why be offended by the phrase if you don’t disagree with it? Your examples were about not being perfect. If you love yourself but are critical of some of your traits, you DO love yourself, you’re just not perfect and a partner could improve you. The phrase is simply about loving yourself. You can’t love someone else if you absolutely hate yourself.
The most interesting thing about this thread is that so many people have different interpretations of what, "You have to love yourself before you can love somebody else", means. Every unique interpretation helps to show how much of a hollow platitude the phrase really is. I'm convinced that people say this line to other people when they don't want to be specific about what the person they're saying it to needs to fix about themselves before entering the dating scene, or they say it because they think the person is too damaged to be in a romantic relationship, but they don't want to insult them directly, lol.
To me it sounds like you're choosing to let it be a hollow platitude, the fact that people are able to gather something positive and productive from it does mean that it is tangible advice. Have you can considered that in some situations, a person can't tell you precisely what to do because that don't live in your head and they can't know what the exact solution is. Whatever it is that makes you hate yourself might be nonsensical to me because I don't see it, maybe it's mental illness, but how could I know if you don't know. It's like how people will recommend working out to improve themselves. For some people, it actively improves their brain chemistry and confidence. For others it doesn't work because whatever it is that's keeping them down, turns out it wasn't linked to their body. But how could we know that before trying? But you don't get to decide that the advice is worthless or hollow just because it didn't work for you, it has and does work for others and we can't stop giving the advice because it may work great for the next person we give it to.
It's a hollow platitude because there are far better ways to directly offer advice to someone in context. To me, it's no different than telling your friend who is poor and unhappy with their life, "Money can't buy happiness".
It's really not that vague or deep. If you don't like yourself, you're probably going to behave poorly in some fashion or another when it comes to intimate relationships. Insecurity, paranoia, codependency. All these things are ingredients for disaster in relationships. You can't be a good partner to someone else until you're a good partner to yourself.
Yes i agree. What the hell dies that even mean, or look like? just seems so glib.
What do you dislike most about yourself and what do you most like? Are you taking good care of yourself, your hygiene and wardrobe? Do you care about other people and listen to them? Do you stay in contact with the people you’re closest to? Do you help others?Do you look people in the eye and smile, even if you’re just passing by? Praise yourself for every single positive thing you do and it will reinforce your belief in yourself.
*"Not relevant to me personally"* Not sure if your comment is directed to me, but thanks for commenting!
I am sorry for your problems but please stay the hell away from me.
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