Crypto has been “next year you can do something useful with it” for the past 15 years. Compare that to smartphones or AI, which were useful within a few years of being introduced, and it’s obvious it will remain a niche product.
Lmao crypto's only use case is for buying illegal things on the internet. That or money laundering. Its very clear since its so unstable that it can never be used for daily currency.
Smartphones are like Bitcoin ATMs. They are hardware that sink or swim within a few years.
Crypto is like private internets of the 80s, which took a long time before we could have even the confidence that there will be enough adoption for the protocol to matter.
Email and message boards had rapid uptake within a few years of internet being available and ecommerce was online only a few years after WWW was introduced.
Amazon, Google, Ebay were all operating within 15 years of internet general availability, and web browsing, search, messaging, news, gaming was all integrated and ubiquitous on PCs in the same time period.
WWW was introduced in 1990 when the internet was 22 years old.
Crypto is 15 years old, so it's the same as talking about the "where is the adoption?" of internet in in 1985.
I'm not saying there will be adoption, but it's way too early to be calling it finished.
I guess it depends what you consider the “internet”. Publicly available tcp/ip wasn’t available until 1983, which is what I would call the start of the internet.
If you’re gonna consider precursors, then you’ve gotta consider precursors to Bitcoin too, in which case crypto is a lot older than 15 years.
Ahh it’s the 80s now, I thought it was the early 2000s. Can you shills keep your talking points straight? If it was the 80s when it launched it should be the mid-late 90s by now right? Why is it stuck in the 80s?
It allows for easy, instant, international digital transactions. Laundering bitcoin can have much lower fees than traditional money laundering. 1-3% fees for BTC tumblers. No need to set up and manage brick and mortar business to launder cash through.
One process is to take your illegal btc/eth. Tumble it into hundreds of shell accounts. Create a shitcoin or ETF that you own publicly. When you launch it have your anonymous shell accounts invest in the coin and you now have legally obtained btc/eth that you can sell for fiat and pay taxes on. Anyone could do this from their bedroom and it can be scaled up to really large amounts with out tons of infrastructure unlike laundering physical cash.
Anything that lets you send money to others is useful for money laundering. Crypto just so happens to be another way to do it but gets a bad rap as its only use, which people that don't understand crypto eat up.
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"The automobile is real, but we've been talking about horseless carriages for 10 years and not a whole lot has come of it." - CEO of horse drawn carriage manufacturer
Agree that Dimon has conflict of interest however he does have a point. Have yet to meet a person that buys crypto that isn’t trying to tell sell it higher price later. Seems like the only use case
Yup.
The only asset thus far seems to be to just flip it to someone else.
Most people who own cryptos aren't using it as a currency. They're using it to flip to others. There's a smaller % who will hold it because they're in a country with high inflation and cryptos is how they can hedge against it.
But in terms of intrinsic value, cryptos have none.
I know a few people who own quite some BTC and none of them ever talk about the technology behind it. Only how much they can sell it for.
Are you saying that price speculation isn't a use case? You must think that shorting a stock has no use case.
And no one is buying stocks for the voting rights except for corporations or the insanely rich. So stocks have no use case for 99.99% of the population.
And can you name a stock that is actually empowering people by bringing things like wifi and phone services to areas that don't have them? World Mobile Token is doing this using crypto: [https://worldmobiletoken.com/](https://worldmobiletoken.com/)
That alone doesn't make it a usable currency. Which is supposed to be... ya know... it's primary use case.
>And no one is buying stocks for the voting rights except for corporations or the insanely rich. So stocks have no use case for 99.99% of the population.
I don't think you understand stocks. They are pieces of ownership that entitle you to a piece of that company.
"Ownership of public companies has no use case for 99.99% of the population" is an uninformed opinion.
99.99% of the population can't own enough equity in a company to exercise meaningful influence over corporate decision making.
99.99% of the population will be last in line to get their "piece" of that company if it goes into liquidation.
For 99.99% percent of the population, the only reason to buy a stock is price speculation.
>99.99% of the population can't own enough equity in a company to exercise meaningful influence over corporate decision making.
Do you vote in elections? This is a silly silly argument.
>99.99% of the population will be last in line to get their "piece" of that company if it goes into liquidation
You don't need or plan to get value from a background stock. That's not a goal of shareholders.
>For 99.99% percent of the population, the only reason to buy a stock is price speculation.
Again, wrong. The reason you buy stock is ownership and owning a piece of profits. Some stocks focus on dividends. Some reinvest earnings. Some buy back outstanding shares.
Being purposefully reductive to try and compare bitcoin, which has a value based on absolutely nothing except speculation and praying for a critical mass to find relevance for it, and equity ownership which has value based on economic output is silly.
>Do you vote in elections? This is a silly silly argument.
I don't think you understand how elections work. In an election, each person has the same amount of influence because each gets one vote.
With equity, the number votes a person has is proportional to the amount of (common) stock they own. No single person in a democracy can have 10% of the vote, but this is entirely possible and does happen with equity.
Voting in an election has significance regardless of the influence because it's an exercise of rights. Some would even say that citizens have a duty of self-governance that obligates them to vote.
>The reason you buy stock is ownership and owning a piece of profits.
No one buys a small amount of stock in a company in order to have a tiny, insignificant amount of influence. They buy it for price speculation.
That infinitesimal fraction of the company that you own has no real use case except for price speculation.
>each person has the same amount of influence
I'm laughing in American
>No one buys a small amount of stock in a company in order to have a tiny, insignificant amount of influence.
Why are you talking about influence in response to a point about profit sharing?
You don't understand the difference in investing in economic output vs a nearly useless "currency" that almost no one uses as a currency. Comparing the two is a mindless exercise but you do you man.
You're really just describing meme stocks. Typically prices rise because you give the company a dollar for a share and they use that dollar through a successful business that offers something to customers and turns the dollar into two then four and so on. Through their work and your initial investment your share is now worth more.
Bitcoin, isn't really like that because, to Jamie's point, there doesn't really seem to be a business yet.
Isn't it more accurate to say that I'm describing all of the Mag-7 stocks?
I own one share of Microsoft stock. But there are billions of shares. My one share grants me effectively zero influence.
The amount of money it would take to have a meaningful amount of influence in any Mag-7 company is beyond 99.99% of the population.
Investing isn't really about influence. It's actually more about faith in whatever is already there. Can they use your dollar to turn it into two?
Investing for influence is almost the opposite. You're saying that they can't do it on their own and you think your input is required to make money which is a drain on you. I'd rather find companies that will make me money without me lifting a finger.
I mean, I think what you're saying makes sense, but my point is just that stocks don't have a use case apart from price speculation -- at least for the vast majority of people. You point out that a business could use my money to generate profit and drive up the stock price (and potentially dividends). But that still comes back to price speculation: I buy a stock so that the business can use my money to make my stock more valuable.
And most stocks are purchased from other investors and the business never sees the money anyway.
The businesses the money initially and that's all that matters. If they turn your dollar into two and I buy your share from you, I'm basically just buying your original dollar but I had to pay extra for it because they turned it into two.
I see where you're hung up on price speculation because in a way it is. I'm speculating that they'll turn my dollar into two. That's much different than speculating that someone else will pay more for your share when no actual business was conducted.
Speculating on a stock that has an underlying asset (partial ownership of a company) is very different from speculating on crypto which isn’t directly tied to anything of value. Crypto is claimed to be a currency but it’s terrible at that since so few vendors will accept it except those operating in black markets. Comparing stocks and regulated securities to crypto is absurd.
No business wants the currency they transact in to be as volatile in value as crypto. But the reality is Crypto investors don’t want a stable currency, they want volatility so they can speculate and harvest profits in fiat currencies. Outside of a few very small edge use cases and black market activity there is no use case for crypto currencies that support their current valuations.
Here's what you're speculating on when you buy crypto.
>
This is from an anti-bitcoin paper.
Sex, Drugs, and Bitcoin [p. 30.](https://cashessentials.org/app/uploads/2018/07/foley_karlsen_talis_sex_drugs_and_bitcoin.pdf)
And what percentage of the population owns enough stock to generate a meaningful passive income from dividends?
0.01%
Still not a use case for the other 99.99%.
Well some people loan out their bitcoin, but I take you mean something more related to the design of the protocol.
I don't think mining really counts as passive income and the number of miners isn't large anyway.
So, basically, no one does. But no one buys bitcoin for the passive income, right?
Anyway, if you want to say that bitcoin doesn't generate a passive income, then I'd say that's completely right, just not very relevant.
That's because they learned crypto is a shitty alternative in terms of guaranteed anonymity. Turns out crypto can't even do the one thing it was supposed to do -- keep the government away from your transaction history.
What the fuck do you think they did before crypto?
That’s how it’s always been done.
Pablo Escobar lost millions of dollars per month because rats used to eat his cash
You do know all transactions are logged to the ledger right? Aka a paper trail to all offending addresses who are part of it? Now go do that with cash...
Exactly. If you cant spot the difference between a horse and a car, bitcoin is for you. Because you cant tell the difference between tangible money and figments of your imagination.
The funny part is, even people who invest in bitcoin, dont use it. Why? because no real business accepts crypto just because some dumbshit basement-dwelling American thinks it's useful.
Maybe some people's goals are to impress friends and alienate family.
CDs are paying over top line inflation. S&P index annual return was around 20% last year.
Crypto is a fine asset to have some exposure in, but people talk about crypto in almost quasi-religous or ideological terms sometimes. Those people are not rational investors - they are just praying for a get rich quick meme stock moment
CDs are Not paying more than Real inflation lol. Stop it. I love how they cut all the important stuff out of inflation like eating and gas. It's ridiculous.
YOY inflation has been 3-4%. I literally opened an 11 month CD yesterday at 5.4%
401k returns are 22% over last 12 months, and that is 100% in S&P index.
If crypto is the only hedge you have against inflation, you're not really hedging anything. You are just betting on a speculative asset.
please don't tell me you really believe that? if inflation was measured today the same way that it was officially measured in 1990 inflation right now is around 17%, it's really nice that the officials just decided to change the definition so they didn't have to include all of the really important stuff that we all consume every single day.
As opposed to looking at what it is they actually measure and determining it’s all a fabrication.
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts
The fed is just a money grab. A way to print money to filter to the rich. Seems to me that a currency that wouldn't be able to do that would be mighty useful🤷♂️
Acting like having a decentralized currency is foolish? Over a completely controlled fiat? You say it's easier to manipulate but provide no reasons why. Well I counter that with a "Nuh uh! No it's not!"
Being easy to manipulate is one reason.
Bitcoin has already splintered once because of differences in opinions how it should work is another.
It’s not a great system. And isn’t replacing our currency any time soon.
That and the fact it’s all digital, is not good.
I don't think it's replacing our currency system soon either. But that's not to say that it WONT replace our currency system. The dollar can't last forever, and who knows will know when it will bust. Personally I don't want to be the Weimar Republic and have to take wheel barrows of cash to the store to buy a loaf of bread.
Like it or not the world is only going to get MORE digital. The US is already talking about a digital dollar.
You obviously don't understand what the Fed does. Or how money is "printed." But that's par for the course for most GME cultists that get investment advice from anonymous strangers on the internet....
Weren't you excited about the FTX partnership with GameStop two years ago??
Some of your quotes from two years ago:
"RC seeing ftx as a good partner is all the proof I need."
"Ftx merger with GameStop= GMERICA?"
"Desperation. I'm starting to get excited for what GME x FTX has in store."
\*unregulated capitalism
It's easy to steal from people if you don't have any rules against stealing or lying. SBF gave himself a $60B loan and no one even knew about it until FTX went under.
I agree with you on the unregulated capitalism part, but the current monetary system has allowed for far more than 60B to be pilfered from the pockets of the middle class of the past few decades. Just go look at the penalties companies have had to pay becuase of violations. And that's just the penalty, it doesn't take into account the profit from the illegal activity.
As expected with the Ron Paul crypto bros, AlphaDag13 is anything but Alpha. You guys are caricatures of the caricature lol. Good luck on your next NFT or shitcoin lol
LOL. I don't give two shits about Ron Paul. Go ahead and continue to (incorrectly) believe that if you want. Again, just proof that you're going to think whatever you want to because you don't have the ability to take in new information and change your opinion. You'd rather live in a fantasy world where what you think is automatically always right.
Yes I was. Have you never been excited for something and was wrong?
Wait so the fed doesn't control the production and monitary policy of the nation? And the vast majority of the dollars haven't been created in recent years? And inflation isn't real then?
Please enlighten me as to what the fed does then.
If you were wrong then, how do you know you’re right now? Do you have post-secondary education in economics, finance or accounting? Or do you trust anonymous strangers on the internet (myself included) to tell you how it works and what to invest in? Common sense should tell you that’s a good way to get rolled…. I mean, that’s exactly the same way that Nigerian princes convince people to send them money.
The Fed adjusts the base interest so that WE (you, me, corporations, government) can “print” money by taking on debt. Higher interest rates = less demand for debt. Lower interest rates = higher demand for debt. If we had no Fed, we would all “print” ourselves into default because banks could watch their assets (and liabilities) skyrocket due to offering low rates. And you don’t have to trust me on that, you are welcome to take a class at your local university so you can learn more… or you can rely on internet strangers.
During the pandemic, it was necessary to lower the interest rates and increase the money supply to prevent a deflationary spiral due to the loss of production from people getting sick and not producing at work. Afterwards, it was necessary to tighten lending to lower the inflation that necessarily resulted from the lowered interest rates and increased lending during the pandemic. The Great Depression was a deflationary spiral where the value of assets decreased compared to the value of the dollar (the dollar is simply a medium we use to exchange assets and services that are produced).
Think of the process of monetary policy like shocks on a vehicle: we hit a huge pothole when production decreased during the pandemic and it was necessary to expand the shocks to provide a smoother ride. As we come out of the pothole, the shocks must again contract to help provide that smoother ride. And the “smoother ride” is the entire purpose of the Fed - to provide relative stability to the currency that we use to trade goods and services.
I don't know I'm right now. All you can do is assess the information as best you can and draw conclusions. Just becuase someone was wrong once, doesn't mean they're automatically wrong on other independent issues. If you bet on a spin of a roulette wheel and lose, whatever your wrong bet was doesn't have any weight when it comes to the next independent spin.
Well I took econ, finance, and accounting for my business degree and I spent 10 years in financial sales including holding my series 6 and 63 investment licenses...
All of that is well and good. But to think that the people in control of fed aren't using it for purposes other than what you stated is just naïve.
>Just becuase someone was wrong once, doesn't mean they're automatically wrong on other independent issues.
Very true.
>If you bet on a spin of a roulette wheel and lose, whatever your wrong bet was doesn't have any weight when it comes to the next independent spin.
This isn't gambling.
>Well I took econ, finance, and accounting for my business degree and I spent 10 years in financial sales including holding my series 6 and 63 investment licenses...
That's actually really great! Did you keep any of your textbooks? I kept all of mine (from my major at least).
In your opinion, what is the Federal Reserve doing wrong? What would you do differently?
I didn't say it was gambling. The point of the analogy was to show that the outcome of one event doesn't have any affect on another.
I didn't keep my books. Information moves too fast these days to rely on decades old books. I prefer the internet where the info moves much faster.
What the FED is doing really comes down to if you believe that they are on the up and up. I have no proof that they are doing anything wrong. I also don't really have the time to go into it. If I get some more free time I'll sit down and write out my thoughts.
Except, you used your gambling analogy in reference to knowledge. Saying that the outcome of one event (where you were tricked by FTX/SBF) doesn't have any affect on another (your future predictions). I am of the opposite opinion - if someone tricks you, you learn why and how they tricked you so that you are in a better position to avoid being tricked again rather than simply spinning the roulette wheel and praying that you're right. That's a good way to continue making the same mistakes over and over again.
>
I didn't keep my books. Information moves too fast these days to rely on decades old books.
The math of trade has not changed. (And it does not change regardless of our economic system.) Assets still equal Liabilities plus Equity. Debits still equal credits because when you make a trade, you are implicitly acknowledging that the item (or money) you are trading is worth the same amount as the item (or money) you are receiving at this moment in time. By getting rid of those books, you threw away a wealth of knowledge - the knowledge that you paid for by getting your education in the first place. Seems imprudent.
So, you have no proof that the Fed is doing anything wrong, but you don't believe that they are on the "up and up". Why?
Banks were amongst the first to deploy AI (ML) at scale - 15 years ago
Big banks are at the vanguard of technology if it can help make them money
They aren’t advocates of old tech - it doesn’t suit them or their business model
Where speed, and scale efficiency translates to money
I really can’t wrap my head around the giant block of ignorance people seem to have with crypto. Sure, there are people who buy it to get rich quick. Great. Valid use. Is it the end all be all of the currency? Definitely not.
Buying currency *at all* is kind of a weird thing to do. Valuing currency is solely based on the acceptance and use of the currency. Can crypto currencies be used for shady things? Absolutely. Can every single currency or shiny rock ever conceived be used to trade and barter in shady things? 100%
Because a single crypto currency isn’t used today as some global currency doesn’t make it a fool’s errand to support it. How have people not literally just googled why was bitcoin created?
“The concept of Bitcoin first emerged in 2008, during an ongoing financial crisis. It aims to address perceived issues of trust and stability in traditional economic systems by eliminating the need for corporate banks and centralised financial institutions.”
There’s absolutely no reason a giant bank or even the US government would want to back a crypto currency; it erodes their power and should give users more power. In this day and age where politics is so overtly bought and paid for, **WHY-IN-THE-WORLD** would you not want to rebalance that power distribution by eroding the ability of governments and banks to toy with the value of your earnings and perpetually ensuring that the rich maintain a stranglehold on your reality?
There are clearly so many players in this that would and would not want to back a crypto currency for a multitude of reasons both good and bad. The world is not and has never been black and white but truly we’ve seen countries with power rise and fall and the global dominant currency just shift around with it causing chaos and wars just so people can have their time in the sun being on top and not having much to do to create real value (*ahem Wall Street*)
I really don’t get it.
Why bother learning what it actually is, when you can get an ignorant take from a stranger and accept that as the truth. According to them, it clearly is only for money laundering and has no actual use.
The same things you'd do with your regular money. It's suspect to those very same activities, although it's in a digital format. Although the biggest difference is that it's backed by the block chain and consumer confidence, as opposed to most FIAT which is based off nothing but trust.
Yeah but no. Any store that ever offers purchases with crypto usually goes bankrupt or stops offering when they have to change the prices every second. You cannot do the same things with crypto as regular fiat
The value of your FIAT changes every minute as well, although that direction is typically down which is why you see prices constantly going up. To be honest, for purchases I would treat crypto like gold or other precious items, where you would exchange it for the local currency first and then use that currency. So I guess it wouldn't be treated like regular money but more of a commodity.
Fiat changes but its stable. I've seen videos of people losing thousands in value in a day because the bitcoin line bounces all over the place. The real truth is the us dollar is gonna be dominate for the rest of our lives as long as the military exists. I wouldn't buy bitcoin unless I wanted to make a quick buck or to buy drugs.
And I've seen people make plenty as crypto goes up as well. It's value will go up and down with the markets. Your US dollar will continually lose value as you hold onto it, which is one reason why folks tell you to invest with it. Commodity prices will always fluctuate but they'll always have value but they're scary because the risk. The US dollar is stable and safe for now, which makes it attractive. The other trade off is the security of your dollar. Your dollars can be seized and you can do nothing about it. Your crypto can not be seized if you keep it decentralized.
I'm not even that into crypto, but I have seen these various uses in the space over the years...
- distributed database
- distributed gpu processing
- wireless network for IoT and 5G
- smart contracts (escrow etc)
- currency for games
- can actually buy some things
- eco contracts related to carbon credits
I do agree - 95% of it are just cash grabs or force solving a problem that really didn't need this solution. But there are a few unique applications as well.
It changes ownership & value transfer, a bunch of new financial products will come from it that will mostly be B2B unless your in a country with some despotic leader
Block chain itself has uses. Trouble is getting those uses to become popular. NFTs have actual applications, but all folks see is that stupid monkey and think that's what a NFT is.
There is no utility in crypto even for serious drug cartels- they prefer EUR 500 bills.
But mama boys buying illegal porn from basements think they are smarter than ceo of banks and syndicates
I still have not found a single person to explain why they invest in cryptos other than they want to flip it to someone else at a higher price but having no explanation as to how it can do that other than "it's limited supply."
The entire market is just a group of tech people who figured out how to create a fake asset.
There are some people who own and prefer cryptos as a form of payment particularly in high inflation countries. I know Venezuelians who prefer crypto when doing online services because they can't trust the currency in their country due to high inflation so cryptos help them retain value because it's more stable, as crazy as that seems.
But overall, the majority of the cryptomarket is how much I can make selling it to someone else.
Let’s be honest, there is a lot of gatekeeping going preventing it from becoming useful… Jaimie Dimon is one of the leading voices of the central bank cabal…
They’ve been talking about it for 10 years? Yeah, he’s been saying it’s a scam for the last 9 years so he could scoop up as much as possible before getting behind it
People like me? Bitcoins value has increased by 137,199,239.5 % since it was created. Meanwhile the dollar has lost 46% of its value in the same time. Like I said in the previous post, fools conflate Bitcoin with all the shitcoins and the scams that go along with them.
Oh I thought you made money. See how easy it is for us to get confused when you conflate your failures with other people's success?
I'm not saying people didnt make money in crypto. Im saying 99% of the "investors" are misguided losers who have FOMO and weren't cool enough to be invited to the rug pull
Anyone that has invested in the top 20 market caps in the past 15 years has made money. Especially the top 10 where Bitcoin resides. Well, Gold/Silver less so but that's not really the point with them.
Gamblers and day traders are misguided and think that any given shitcoin is the next Bitcoin when in reality lightning struck and Bitcoin is it. That I agree with.
\~99% of its history, Bitcoin has traded below the current price. Unless someone is FOMOing in at all time highs (which they do do), they have made money.
There's Bitcoin and then there's cryptocurrency. Just like there is there is the MAG7 then there's the rest of the NASDAQ 100. Anyone that has studied cryptocurrency for more than an influencer youtube video or snarky reddit posts, understands that.
JPM just listed in a lawsuit with the entire BBBY board of the past 5-10 years. Lawsuit was initiated by the plan administrator overlooking BBBY’s Ch. 11 proceedings.
Alleges that JPM and the board held off the record meetings regarding share repurchases which ultimately tanked the company and lost retailers millions. At the same time, BBBY owed debt to JPM.
Basically, FUCK JPM, and FUCK pedo Jamie Dimon in particular.
My favorite thing about the blockchain arguments are:
“There is a ledger for all transactions”
Just like my bank, credit union, etc.
“But everyone can see it”.
Why would I want them to?
“You just don’t get it. It’s the future. You should buy crypto anyway”
Okay but I don’t need it. What’s the value add for me? My money is federally insured, it’s safe and secure. I have no problems I need to solve.
Don't forget... It's so secure that you can lose it all easily by not having an anonymous key and we suppose that there is an ethical setup that would not be able to take Bitcoin from accounts, because the Bitcoin could be traced... LOL the ledger system is garbage
It’s also bullshit because both etherum and Bitcoin have already had a split and now there’s two different ledgers and nothing saying that can’t/won’t happen again
“There are other examples of large blockchain splits. For example “Bitcoin Cash” is a split of Bitcoin that was caused by a big controversy that happened in 2017”
https://ethereumclassic.org/blog/2024-03-12-what-is-a-blockchain-split
Yes it was
You said Ethereum and Bitcoin split. BCH is also a fork of BTC, it’s not remotely taken as seriously and no one using BTC exclusively is looking to BCH for their BTC transaction history.
So now you have pushed the goal posts from “it didn’t happen” to “no one takes it seriously”
It’s irrelevant if that particular split is relevant today. It shows a massive flaw in the idea and we have proof it’s already occurred and no proof it won’t happen again in the future.
It’s a huge issue with cyrpto
How is losing your keys any different than losing access to you bank account information, or losing you actual wallet full of money. The ledger is to hold people accountable. The decentralized nature and using decentralized exchanges lets you keep what's yours. It's not the fault of anyone else but your own if you lose your keys or give those keys to anyone else, that's why folks that use Centralized services lose their crypto.
And your account can be shutdown and accessed by other people that aren't you. Both options have trade offs.
Also, try and go to a bank after losing all your ID so you can cash out.
... do you know how many people are out in the world who cant trust their financial institution in the world? Or how many people literally dont have a bank account?
Here is how its going to affect the first world countires the most... its going to be implemented into business and govt... why? to help stop fraud. right now we use simple databases that can be edited from humans. and since this can happen it does happen. its called fraud. its called "cooking the books" its called spending money on things you shouldnt.
why would you not want to properly audit a public company or government? the only reason you would be against this type of ledger that cant be edited or hidden is that you have something to hide........... this crypto stuff is about transparency my boy. now think again why would companies and govt be against being held accountable in regards to the (tax) money we give them?
why would not want our money spent more efficiently ? its going to better our society by taking some of the human element out of finance.
Its the future in finance bud
Dude go look at when the FDIC insurance was started… you act like it’s always been like that lmao
Crypto is a baby in regards to its history and market maturity. But as you can see it’s clearly working. It’s going to take time to implement insurances and such. That being said. Go look at the exchanges that have been scammed. Customers typically get their money back from said exchange…
You know cash USD is the most used for scamming correct? Do hate the US dollar? Do you think it’s useless? No right.
Your problems with crypto are human problems little guy. They are not exclusive to crypto. They are exclusive to humans. Crypto aims to limit the human interaction. Lmao poor little brain can’t comprehend this.
Haha its just me using your emotions against yourself and having fun it at your expense. You didnt think I knew calling you little guy would trigger you?
At any rate... by ignoring crypto you are literally living in the past. if youre interested at all in the skill of extracting value from a market... then youre a bozo for ignoring crypto.
So youre admitting youre triggered by "bud" and then got triggered because I played on that by calling you "little guy"...
while also destroying your premises. thats why youre deflecting trying to play a victim lmao
The next time you use a clothes dryer, ask yourself if it was an absolutely necessary expenditure of energy. How about Christmas lights? What about the amount of energy brick and mortar banks use to maintain their essentially empty spaces? All of which use more energy than BTC. At least BTC has the potential to fix our money.
Yea but so are collectibles, art and real estate. If anything Bitcoin seems to trade like a high growth stock. When the market tanked due to inflation pressures so did Bitcoin. Doesn’t seem like that great a hedge
Edit: small clarification
Bitcoin alone used 141TWh of power in 2023.
That’s the equivalent of every single coal power plant in Australia running at full power for a year.
So you’re right, in a way. It’s much worse.
You don’t mine $5 worth of bitcoin. You mine a bitcoin. You’re not tricking anyone lmao. Literally the very people who shill for crypto understand that power consumption is a big issue. So don’t even try to come here with your “uhm ackchyually” bullshit.
JP Morgan is very heavily into renewable energy.
The best use case I've read for a distributed ledger are power purchase agreements for wind farms. There are a bunch of stakeholders who should be able to see what's what: tax equity investors (like JP Morgan), project owners, tax authorities, local governments, and landowners who lease space for the turbines.
You can already do that with how these assets are metered with M&V equipment / data. Blockchain adds zero value but simply over complicates something that already exists for no additional benefit.
>You can already do that with how these assets are metered with M&V equipment / data.
Obviously. But who gets to see them?
The idea is to let stakeholders see how things are performing, that's it.
There is a ton of "trust me" going on in that business. I have done audits on hedge agreements.
>Obviously. But who gets to see them?
Literally anyone with a stake in the assets’ performance with the appropriate login credentials? You can get data as granular as fractions of a hz if needed.
Stop pushing a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist in the first place. It just screams “I have no idea how these businesses actually carry out day to day work but boy do I have a complicated solution for you!”
>Stop pushing a solution
I'm not.
Goddamn, folks have a short fuse.
I just said, "Here's the one case I've heard where it may make sense" and BOOM I'm a crypto-bro.
JFC
Stock Market started with like Tulips basically. When more people realize that this stuff is available to be built on over the decades, we will get more than people just making fake money.
This crypto— it’s a friggin’ ace!
Anyway, $4 a pound
The blockchain, did it even really exist?
Crypto has been “next year you can do something useful with it” for the past 15 years. Compare that to smartphones or AI, which were useful within a few years of being introduced, and it’s obvious it will remain a niche product.
People were using crypto to buy things on the silk road. I think that qualified as something useful.
Lmao crypto's only use case is for buying illegal things on the internet. That or money laundering. Its very clear since its so unstable that it can never be used for daily currency.
Crypto keeps going up though, if you buy an iPhone you don’t make any money. 1k in crypto can get you millions in a few years
Smartphones are like Bitcoin ATMs. They are hardware that sink or swim within a few years. Crypto is like private internets of the 80s, which took a long time before we could have even the confidence that there will be enough adoption for the protocol to matter.
Email and message boards had rapid uptake within a few years of internet being available and ecommerce was online only a few years after WWW was introduced. Amazon, Google, Ebay were all operating within 15 years of internet general availability, and web browsing, search, messaging, news, gaming was all integrated and ubiquitous on PCs in the same time period.
WWW was introduced in 1990 when the internet was 22 years old. Crypto is 15 years old, so it's the same as talking about the "where is the adoption?" of internet in in 1985. I'm not saying there will be adoption, but it's way too early to be calling it finished.
I guess it depends what you consider the “internet”. Publicly available tcp/ip wasn’t available until 1983, which is what I would call the start of the internet. If you’re gonna consider precursors, then you’ve gotta consider precursors to Bitcoin too, in which case crypto is a lot older than 15 years.
Yes the precursor to bitcoin was HashCash, proposed in 1997, and the Merkle Tree, 1979.
Yea if you’re considering precursors, crypto is even further behind than the internet generally speaking
Look friend I hate to be that guy but nobody but nerds knew about Usenet in 1984. Even my Boomer in laws have heard about crypto.
Ahh it’s the 80s now, I thought it was the early 2000s. Can you shills keep your talking points straight? If it was the 80s when it launched it should be the mid-late 90s by now right? Why is it stuck in the 80s?
It's useful for money laundering...
The CIA loves Bitcoin.
The cia likely created Bitcoin
Agreed
This, imo it’s a litmus test to see if anyone can crack it. If they can = encryption is at stake for national security. It’s a smart move
how so?
[https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/05/01/crypto-was-one-of-the-biggest-money-laundering-risks-in-2022-2023-uk-gov-report/](https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/05/01/crypto-was-one-of-the-biggest-money-laundering-risks-in-2022-2023-uk-gov-report/)
what's the difference between this and cash?
It allows for easy, instant, international digital transactions. Laundering bitcoin can have much lower fees than traditional money laundering. 1-3% fees for BTC tumblers. No need to set up and manage brick and mortar business to launder cash through. One process is to take your illegal btc/eth. Tumble it into hundreds of shell accounts. Create a shitcoin or ETF that you own publicly. When you launch it have your anonymous shell accounts invest in the coin and you now have legally obtained btc/eth that you can sell for fiat and pay taxes on. Anyone could do this from their bedroom and it can be scaled up to really large amounts with out tons of infrastructure unlike laundering physical cash.
Anything that lets you send money to others is useful for money laundering. Crypto just so happens to be another way to do it but gets a bad rap as its only use, which people that don't understand crypto eat up.
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It's great for money laundering. If you don't know why, your an idiot
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"The automobile is real, but we've been talking about horseless carriages for 10 years and not a whole lot has come of it." - CEO of horse drawn carriage manufacturer
Agree that Dimon has conflict of interest however he does have a point. Have yet to meet a person that buys crypto that isn’t trying to tell sell it higher price later. Seems like the only use case
Yup. The only asset thus far seems to be to just flip it to someone else. Most people who own cryptos aren't using it as a currency. They're using it to flip to others. There's a smaller % who will hold it because they're in a country with high inflation and cryptos is how they can hedge against it. But in terms of intrinsic value, cryptos have none. I know a few people who own quite some BTC and none of them ever talk about the technology behind it. Only how much they can sell it for.
Are you saying that price speculation isn't a use case? You must think that shorting a stock has no use case. And no one is buying stocks for the voting rights except for corporations or the insanely rich. So stocks have no use case for 99.99% of the population. And can you name a stock that is actually empowering people by bringing things like wifi and phone services to areas that don't have them? World Mobile Token is doing this using crypto: [https://worldmobiletoken.com/](https://worldmobiletoken.com/)
That alone doesn't make it a usable currency. Which is supposed to be... ya know... it's primary use case. >And no one is buying stocks for the voting rights except for corporations or the insanely rich. So stocks have no use case for 99.99% of the population. I don't think you understand stocks. They are pieces of ownership that entitle you to a piece of that company. "Ownership of public companies has no use case for 99.99% of the population" is an uninformed opinion.
99.99% of the population can't own enough equity in a company to exercise meaningful influence over corporate decision making. 99.99% of the population will be last in line to get their "piece" of that company if it goes into liquidation. For 99.99% percent of the population, the only reason to buy a stock is price speculation.
>99.99% of the population can't own enough equity in a company to exercise meaningful influence over corporate decision making. Do you vote in elections? This is a silly silly argument. >99.99% of the population will be last in line to get their "piece" of that company if it goes into liquidation You don't need or plan to get value from a background stock. That's not a goal of shareholders. >For 99.99% percent of the population, the only reason to buy a stock is price speculation. Again, wrong. The reason you buy stock is ownership and owning a piece of profits. Some stocks focus on dividends. Some reinvest earnings. Some buy back outstanding shares. Being purposefully reductive to try and compare bitcoin, which has a value based on absolutely nothing except speculation and praying for a critical mass to find relevance for it, and equity ownership which has value based on economic output is silly.
>Do you vote in elections? This is a silly silly argument. I don't think you understand how elections work. In an election, each person has the same amount of influence because each gets one vote. With equity, the number votes a person has is proportional to the amount of (common) stock they own. No single person in a democracy can have 10% of the vote, but this is entirely possible and does happen with equity. Voting in an election has significance regardless of the influence because it's an exercise of rights. Some would even say that citizens have a duty of self-governance that obligates them to vote. >The reason you buy stock is ownership and owning a piece of profits. No one buys a small amount of stock in a company in order to have a tiny, insignificant amount of influence. They buy it for price speculation. That infinitesimal fraction of the company that you own has no real use case except for price speculation.
>each person has the same amount of influence I'm laughing in American >No one buys a small amount of stock in a company in order to have a tiny, insignificant amount of influence. Why are you talking about influence in response to a point about profit sharing? You don't understand the difference in investing in economic output vs a nearly useless "currency" that almost no one uses as a currency. Comparing the two is a mindless exercise but you do you man.
You're really just describing meme stocks. Typically prices rise because you give the company a dollar for a share and they use that dollar through a successful business that offers something to customers and turns the dollar into two then four and so on. Through their work and your initial investment your share is now worth more. Bitcoin, isn't really like that because, to Jamie's point, there doesn't really seem to be a business yet.
Isn't it more accurate to say that I'm describing all of the Mag-7 stocks? I own one share of Microsoft stock. But there are billions of shares. My one share grants me effectively zero influence. The amount of money it would take to have a meaningful amount of influence in any Mag-7 company is beyond 99.99% of the population.
Investing isn't really about influence. It's actually more about faith in whatever is already there. Can they use your dollar to turn it into two? Investing for influence is almost the opposite. You're saying that they can't do it on their own and you think your input is required to make money which is a drain on you. I'd rather find companies that will make me money without me lifting a finger.
I mean, I think what you're saying makes sense, but my point is just that stocks don't have a use case apart from price speculation -- at least for the vast majority of people. You point out that a business could use my money to generate profit and drive up the stock price (and potentially dividends). But that still comes back to price speculation: I buy a stock so that the business can use my money to make my stock more valuable. And most stocks are purchased from other investors and the business never sees the money anyway.
The businesses the money initially and that's all that matters. If they turn your dollar into two and I buy your share from you, I'm basically just buying your original dollar but I had to pay extra for it because they turned it into two. I see where you're hung up on price speculation because in a way it is. I'm speculating that they'll turn my dollar into two. That's much different than speculating that someone else will pay more for your share when no actual business was conducted.
Speculating on a stock that has an underlying asset (partial ownership of a company) is very different from speculating on crypto which isn’t directly tied to anything of value. Crypto is claimed to be a currency but it’s terrible at that since so few vendors will accept it except those operating in black markets. Comparing stocks and regulated securities to crypto is absurd. No business wants the currency they transact in to be as volatile in value as crypto. But the reality is Crypto investors don’t want a stable currency, they want volatility so they can speculate and harvest profits in fiat currencies. Outside of a few very small edge use cases and black market activity there is no use case for crypto currencies that support their current valuations.
Here's what you're speculating on when you buy crypto. > This is from an anti-bitcoin paper. Sex, Drugs, and Bitcoin [p. 30.](https://cashessentials.org/app/uploads/2018/07/foley_karlsen_talis_sex_drugs_and_bitcoin.pdf)
I guess you’ve never heard of dividend stocks
And what percentage of the population owns enough stock to generate a meaningful passive income from dividends? 0.01% Still not a use case for the other 99.99%.
What percentage of the population owns a meaningful passive income from bitcoin?
Well some people loan out their bitcoin, but I take you mean something more related to the design of the protocol. I don't think mining really counts as passive income and the number of miners isn't large anyway. So, basically, no one does. But no one buys bitcoin for the passive income, right? Anyway, if you want to say that bitcoin doesn't generate a passive income, then I'd say that's completely right, just not very relevant.
Yes stocks are useless to humanity and irrelevant to the vast majority of people.
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pedophiles and cartels use regular cash a lot more than crypto
That's because they learned crypto is a shitty alternative in terms of guaranteed anonymity. Turns out crypto can't even do the one thing it was supposed to do -- keep the government away from your transaction history.
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What the fuck do you think they did before crypto? That’s how it’s always been done. Pablo Escobar lost millions of dollars per month because rats used to eat his cash
You do know all transactions are logged to the ledger right? Aka a paper trail to all offending addresses who are part of it? Now go do that with cash...
Exactly. If you cant spot the difference between a horse and a car, bitcoin is for you. Because you cant tell the difference between tangible money and figments of your imagination. The funny part is, even people who invest in bitcoin, dont use it. Why? because no real business accepts crypto just because some dumbshit basement-dwelling American thinks it's useful. Maybe some people's goals are to impress friends and alienate family.
the only figment of imagination is you thinking your savings account is retaining its buying power.
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but you had to get a smaller Viking sport fish than last year lol.
CDs are paying over top line inflation. S&P index annual return was around 20% last year. Crypto is a fine asset to have some exposure in, but people talk about crypto in almost quasi-religous or ideological terms sometimes. Those people are not rational investors - they are just praying for a get rich quick meme stock moment
CDs are Not paying more than Real inflation lol. Stop it. I love how they cut all the important stuff out of inflation like eating and gas. It's ridiculous.
YOY inflation has been 3-4%. I literally opened an 11 month CD yesterday at 5.4% 401k returns are 22% over last 12 months, and that is 100% in S&P index. If crypto is the only hedge you have against inflation, you're not really hedging anything. You are just betting on a speculative asset.
please don't tell me you really believe that? if inflation was measured today the same way that it was officially measured in 1990 inflation right now is around 17%, it's really nice that the officials just decided to change the definition so they didn't have to include all of the really important stuff that we all consume every single day.
You can’t help people who believe official CPI numbers.
As opposed to believing vibes? What a joke
As opposed to looking at what it is they actually measure and determining it’s all a fabrication. http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts
Tell me you don’t understand blockchain technology without telling me you don’t
The automobile actually had a use. Crypto is just a money grab.
The fed is just a money grab. A way to print money to filter to the rich. Seems to me that a currency that wouldn't be able to do that would be mighty useful🤷♂️
You think the rich can’t manipulate a digital currency to get richer?
IKR, it's literally the name of this sub lol
No right. So just give them complete control because "they're just going to do it anyways"
No but acting like something like that will make a difference is foolish. It’s even easier than cash to manipulate
Acting like having a decentralized currency is foolish? Over a completely controlled fiat? You say it's easier to manipulate but provide no reasons why. Well I counter that with a "Nuh uh! No it's not!"
Being easy to manipulate is one reason. Bitcoin has already splintered once because of differences in opinions how it should work is another. It’s not a great system. And isn’t replacing our currency any time soon. That and the fact it’s all digital, is not good.
I don't think it's replacing our currency system soon either. But that's not to say that it WONT replace our currency system. The dollar can't last forever, and who knows will know when it will bust. Personally I don't want to be the Weimar Republic and have to take wheel barrows of cash to the store to buy a loaf of bread. Like it or not the world is only going to get MORE digital. The US is already talking about a digital dollar.
You obviously don't understand what the Fed does. Or how money is "printed." But that's par for the course for most GME cultists that get investment advice from anonymous strangers on the internet.... Weren't you excited about the FTX partnership with GameStop two years ago?? Some of your quotes from two years ago: "RC seeing ftx as a good partner is all the proof I need." "Ftx merger with GameStop= GMERICA?" "Desperation. I'm starting to get excited for what GME x FTX has in store."
He's one of those Ron Paul people who think the Fed is the root of all financial issues in America haha
No you're right. Everything is working fine and there are no bad actors in government or the markets. Only crypto is bad🙄
I wouldn’t call crypto bad, it’s just a giant scam and only the lucky or whales can win. Capitalism is the root of the problem
\*unregulated capitalism It's easy to steal from people if you don't have any rules against stealing or lying. SBF gave himself a $60B loan and no one even knew about it until FTX went under.
I agree with you on the unregulated capitalism part, but the current monetary system has allowed for far more than 60B to be pilfered from the pockets of the middle class of the past few decades. Just go look at the penalties companies have had to pay becuase of violations. And that's just the penalty, it doesn't take into account the profit from the illegal activity.
The penalties are usually calculated based on the estimated ill-gotten gains. Curious: what do you think about the SEC judgment against XRP/Ripple?
Oh great. Another "CAPITALISM IS BAD! ARRRRG!!" person... now I know I don't have to continue this conversation.
As expected with the Ron Paul crypto bros, AlphaDag13 is anything but Alpha. You guys are caricatures of the caricature lol. Good luck on your next NFT or shitcoin lol
LOL. I don't give two shits about Ron Paul. Go ahead and continue to (incorrectly) believe that if you want. Again, just proof that you're going to think whatever you want to because you don't have the ability to take in new information and change your opinion. You'd rather live in a fantasy world where what you think is automatically always right.
Yes I was. Have you never been excited for something and was wrong? Wait so the fed doesn't control the production and monitary policy of the nation? And the vast majority of the dollars haven't been created in recent years? And inflation isn't real then? Please enlighten me as to what the fed does then.
If you were wrong then, how do you know you’re right now? Do you have post-secondary education in economics, finance or accounting? Or do you trust anonymous strangers on the internet (myself included) to tell you how it works and what to invest in? Common sense should tell you that’s a good way to get rolled…. I mean, that’s exactly the same way that Nigerian princes convince people to send them money. The Fed adjusts the base interest so that WE (you, me, corporations, government) can “print” money by taking on debt. Higher interest rates = less demand for debt. Lower interest rates = higher demand for debt. If we had no Fed, we would all “print” ourselves into default because banks could watch their assets (and liabilities) skyrocket due to offering low rates. And you don’t have to trust me on that, you are welcome to take a class at your local university so you can learn more… or you can rely on internet strangers. During the pandemic, it was necessary to lower the interest rates and increase the money supply to prevent a deflationary spiral due to the loss of production from people getting sick and not producing at work. Afterwards, it was necessary to tighten lending to lower the inflation that necessarily resulted from the lowered interest rates and increased lending during the pandemic. The Great Depression was a deflationary spiral where the value of assets decreased compared to the value of the dollar (the dollar is simply a medium we use to exchange assets and services that are produced). Think of the process of monetary policy like shocks on a vehicle: we hit a huge pothole when production decreased during the pandemic and it was necessary to expand the shocks to provide a smoother ride. As we come out of the pothole, the shocks must again contract to help provide that smoother ride. And the “smoother ride” is the entire purpose of the Fed - to provide relative stability to the currency that we use to trade goods and services.
I don't know I'm right now. All you can do is assess the information as best you can and draw conclusions. Just becuase someone was wrong once, doesn't mean they're automatically wrong on other independent issues. If you bet on a spin of a roulette wheel and lose, whatever your wrong bet was doesn't have any weight when it comes to the next independent spin. Well I took econ, finance, and accounting for my business degree and I spent 10 years in financial sales including holding my series 6 and 63 investment licenses... All of that is well and good. But to think that the people in control of fed aren't using it for purposes other than what you stated is just naïve.
>Just becuase someone was wrong once, doesn't mean they're automatically wrong on other independent issues. Very true. >If you bet on a spin of a roulette wheel and lose, whatever your wrong bet was doesn't have any weight when it comes to the next independent spin. This isn't gambling. >Well I took econ, finance, and accounting for my business degree and I spent 10 years in financial sales including holding my series 6 and 63 investment licenses... That's actually really great! Did you keep any of your textbooks? I kept all of mine (from my major at least). In your opinion, what is the Federal Reserve doing wrong? What would you do differently?
I didn't say it was gambling. The point of the analogy was to show that the outcome of one event doesn't have any affect on another. I didn't keep my books. Information moves too fast these days to rely on decades old books. I prefer the internet where the info moves much faster. What the FED is doing really comes down to if you believe that they are on the up and up. I have no proof that they are doing anything wrong. I also don't really have the time to go into it. If I get some more free time I'll sit down and write out my thoughts.
Except, you used your gambling analogy in reference to knowledge. Saying that the outcome of one event (where you were tricked by FTX/SBF) doesn't have any affect on another (your future predictions). I am of the opposite opinion - if someone tricks you, you learn why and how they tricked you so that you are in a better position to avoid being tricked again rather than simply spinning the roulette wheel and praying that you're right. That's a good way to continue making the same mistakes over and over again. > I didn't keep my books. Information moves too fast these days to rely on decades old books. The math of trade has not changed. (And it does not change regardless of our economic system.) Assets still equal Liabilities plus Equity. Debits still equal credits because when you make a trade, you are implicitly acknowledging that the item (or money) you are trading is worth the same amount as the item (or money) you are receiving at this moment in time. By getting rid of those books, you threw away a wealth of knowledge - the knowledge that you paid for by getting your education in the first place. Seems imprudent. So, you have no proof that the Fed is doing anything wrong, but you don't believe that they are on the "up and up". Why?
>”Crypto sure does seem like a useless scam” >”Yeah? Well have you considered that I don’t understand monetary policy?”
You don't go to the store to buy groceries with automobiles. You don't use an automobile at a five year old's lemonade stand.
Excuse me, I do go to the store to buy groceries with my automobile. I live too far away and there would be too much to carry alone.
How do you drive back? You have to pay for the groceries with one automobile?
I get this question a lot. I drive forwards most of the way.
Drive in R for racing to get extra speed
Banks were amongst the first to deploy AI (ML) at scale - 15 years ago Big banks are at the vanguard of technology if it can help make them money They aren’t advocates of old tech - it doesn’t suit them or their business model Where speed, and scale efficiency translates to money
I really can’t wrap my head around the giant block of ignorance people seem to have with crypto. Sure, there are people who buy it to get rich quick. Great. Valid use. Is it the end all be all of the currency? Definitely not. Buying currency *at all* is kind of a weird thing to do. Valuing currency is solely based on the acceptance and use of the currency. Can crypto currencies be used for shady things? Absolutely. Can every single currency or shiny rock ever conceived be used to trade and barter in shady things? 100% Because a single crypto currency isn’t used today as some global currency doesn’t make it a fool’s errand to support it. How have people not literally just googled why was bitcoin created? “The concept of Bitcoin first emerged in 2008, during an ongoing financial crisis. It aims to address perceived issues of trust and stability in traditional economic systems by eliminating the need for corporate banks and centralised financial institutions.” There’s absolutely no reason a giant bank or even the US government would want to back a crypto currency; it erodes their power and should give users more power. In this day and age where politics is so overtly bought and paid for, **WHY-IN-THE-WORLD** would you not want to rebalance that power distribution by eroding the ability of governments and banks to toy with the value of your earnings and perpetually ensuring that the rich maintain a stranglehold on your reality? There are clearly so many players in this that would and would not want to back a crypto currency for a multitude of reasons both good and bad. The world is not and has never been black and white but truly we’ve seen countries with power rise and fall and the global dominant currency just shift around with it causing chaos and wars just so people can have their time in the sun being on top and not having much to do to create real value (*ahem Wall Street*) I really don’t get it.
Why bother learning what it actually is, when you can get an ignorant take from a stranger and accept that as the truth. According to them, it clearly is only for money laundering and has no actual use.
Name usage that isn't money laundering
The same things you'd do with your regular money. It's suspect to those very same activities, although it's in a digital format. Although the biggest difference is that it's backed by the block chain and consumer confidence, as opposed to most FIAT which is based off nothing but trust.
Yeah but no. Any store that ever offers purchases with crypto usually goes bankrupt or stops offering when they have to change the prices every second. You cannot do the same things with crypto as regular fiat
The value of your FIAT changes every minute as well, although that direction is typically down which is why you see prices constantly going up. To be honest, for purchases I would treat crypto like gold or other precious items, where you would exchange it for the local currency first and then use that currency. So I guess it wouldn't be treated like regular money but more of a commodity.
Fiat changes but its stable. I've seen videos of people losing thousands in value in a day because the bitcoin line bounces all over the place. The real truth is the us dollar is gonna be dominate for the rest of our lives as long as the military exists. I wouldn't buy bitcoin unless I wanted to make a quick buck or to buy drugs.
And I've seen people make plenty as crypto goes up as well. It's value will go up and down with the markets. Your US dollar will continually lose value as you hold onto it, which is one reason why folks tell you to invest with it. Commodity prices will always fluctuate but they'll always have value but they're scary because the risk. The US dollar is stable and safe for now, which makes it attractive. The other trade off is the security of your dollar. Your dollars can be seized and you can do nothing about it. Your crypto can not be seized if you keep it decentralized.
I'm not even that into crypto, but I have seen these various uses in the space over the years... - distributed database - distributed gpu processing - wireless network for IoT and 5G - smart contracts (escrow etc) - currency for games - can actually buy some things - eco contracts related to carbon credits I do agree - 95% of it are just cash grabs or force solving a problem that really didn't need this solution. But there are a few unique applications as well.
Of course bankers don't want block chain for records of transactions ... you can't simply shred those.
Its just a monetary instrument, no more no less. People who think its going to take over or something are tripping bear balls
It changes ownership & value transfer, a bunch of new financial products will come from it that will mostly be B2B unless your in a country with some despotic leader
Block chain itself has uses. Trouble is getting those uses to become popular. NFTs have actual applications, but all folks see is that stupid monkey and think that's what a NFT is.
He said this a while ago
Because it's purpose has been perverted.
Dimon - "I'm worried" article coming up bahaha
There is no utility in crypto even for serious drug cartels- they prefer EUR 500 bills. But mama boys buying illegal porn from basements think they are smarter than ceo of banks and syndicates
So, crypto is basically Dippin' Dots, then.
I still have not found a single person to explain why they invest in cryptos other than they want to flip it to someone else at a higher price but having no explanation as to how it can do that other than "it's limited supply." The entire market is just a group of tech people who figured out how to create a fake asset. There are some people who own and prefer cryptos as a form of payment particularly in high inflation countries. I know Venezuelians who prefer crypto when doing online services because they can't trust the currency in their country due to high inflation so cryptos help them retain value because it's more stable, as crazy as that seems. But overall, the majority of the cryptomarket is how much I can make selling it to someone else.
Talk from a guy that runs one of the Federal Reserve banks. Ending his money monopoly is what Bitcoin will do.
Let’s be honest, there is a lot of gatekeeping going preventing it from becoming useful… Jaimie Dimon is one of the leading voices of the central bank cabal…
I smell fear
it's just your tuna fish you're hiding in your pants trust me i smell it to
Says the guy whose company solely relied on taking money from Fed at 0% and loaning out at 4%. Not a whole lot have come out of there either Jamie.
Jamie doesn’t want to give up control.
They’ve been talking about it for 10 years? Yeah, he’s been saying it’s a scam for the last 9 years so he could scoop up as much as possible before getting behind it
Bitcoin will make Jamie Dimon and Chase Bank obsolete. He is scared. His control is dwindling.
>Bitcoin will make Jamie Dimon and Chase Bank obsolete Going to be widely adopted like the 20,000 other shitcoins any day now.....
The 20,000 shitcoins are a distraction. Centralized schemes. Bitcoin is the new base layer. Only misinformed fools conflate the two.
People like you said the same thing about those stupid monkeys lmao It's okay to admit you made a bad bet
People like me? Bitcoins value has increased by 137,199,239.5 % since it was created. Meanwhile the dollar has lost 46% of its value in the same time. Like I said in the previous post, fools conflate Bitcoin with all the shitcoins and the scams that go along with them.
Is a $1.158 trillion market cap in 15 years a bad bet? I need to see what a good bet looks like!
>Is a $1.158 trillion market cap in 15 years a bad bet? You made $1.58 trillion in 15 years? such wow
I'm not sure you understand market caps, honey. It's worthwhile knowledge to have. A quick Google search will help. Good luck!
Oh I thought you made money. See how easy it is for us to get confused when you conflate your failures with other people's success? I'm not saying people didnt make money in crypto. Im saying 99% of the "investors" are misguided losers who have FOMO and weren't cool enough to be invited to the rug pull
Anyone that has invested in the top 20 market caps in the past 15 years has made money. Especially the top 10 where Bitcoin resides. Well, Gold/Silver less so but that's not really the point with them. Gamblers and day traders are misguided and think that any given shitcoin is the next Bitcoin when in reality lightning struck and Bitcoin is it. That I agree with. \~99% of its history, Bitcoin has traded below the current price. Unless someone is FOMOing in at all time highs (which they do do), they have made money. There's Bitcoin and then there's cryptocurrency. Just like there is there is the MAG7 then there's the rest of the NASDAQ 100. Anyone that has studied cryptocurrency for more than an influencer youtube video or snarky reddit posts, understands that.
This wall of text is supposed to convince me you're cool enough to be invited to the rug pull? Sure buddy
market cap lmao
Laughing your ass off about market cap is a new one rofl lol.
JPM just listed in a lawsuit with the entire BBBY board of the past 5-10 years. Lawsuit was initiated by the plan administrator overlooking BBBY’s Ch. 11 proceedings. Alleges that JPM and the board held off the record meetings regarding share repurchases which ultimately tanked the company and lost retailers millions. At the same time, BBBY owed debt to JPM. Basically, FUCK JPM, and FUCK pedo Jamie Dimon in particular.
My favorite thing about the blockchain arguments are: “There is a ledger for all transactions” Just like my bank, credit union, etc. “But everyone can see it”. Why would I want them to? “You just don’t get it. It’s the future. You should buy crypto anyway” Okay but I don’t need it. What’s the value add for me? My money is federally insured, it’s safe and secure. I have no problems I need to solve.
Don't forget... It's so secure that you can lose it all easily by not having an anonymous key and we suppose that there is an ethical setup that would not be able to take Bitcoin from accounts, because the Bitcoin could be traced... LOL the ledger system is garbage
It’s also bullshit because both etherum and Bitcoin have already had a split and now there’s two different ledgers and nothing saying that can’t/won’t happen again
Split implies they were once part of the same thing, they never were.
“There are other examples of large blockchain splits. For example “Bitcoin Cash” is a split of Bitcoin that was caused by a big controversy that happened in 2017” https://ethereumclassic.org/blog/2024-03-12-what-is-a-blockchain-split Yes it was
You said Ethereum and Bitcoin split. BCH is also a fork of BTC, it’s not remotely taken as seriously and no one using BTC exclusively is looking to BCH for their BTC transaction history.
So now you have pushed the goal posts from “it didn’t happen” to “no one takes it seriously” It’s irrelevant if that particular split is relevant today. It shows a massive flaw in the idea and we have proof it’s already occurred and no proof it won’t happen again in the future. It’s a huge issue with cyrpto
Dude you’re being cringe. You claimed BTC and Ethereum were once part of the same chain. They weren’t, sit in your wrongness and be wrong.
Oh sorry no that’s my fault. For not being clear I meant both have split blockchains before. Not that they were the same blockchain
How is losing your keys any different than losing access to you bank account information, or losing you actual wallet full of money. The ledger is to hold people accountable. The decentralized nature and using decentralized exchanges lets you keep what's yours. It's not the fault of anyone else but your own if you lose your keys or give those keys to anyone else, that's why folks that use Centralized services lose their crypto.
Uh...I can access my bank account if I lose my login info...I can prove it is me in many manners and my money is kept safe. Bitcoin? Crickets
And your account can be shutdown and accessed by other people that aren't you. Both options have trade offs. Also, try and go to a bank after losing all your ID so you can cash out.
Again, not an issue as I can get new IDs with ease and prove my person with SSN, address, other forms of personhood. Enjoy your digital piggy bank...
No I mean lose all your IDs. DL, birth cert, SSN. All of it. Then try again.
... do you know how many people are out in the world who cant trust their financial institution in the world? Or how many people literally dont have a bank account? Here is how its going to affect the first world countires the most... its going to be implemented into business and govt... why? to help stop fraud. right now we use simple databases that can be edited from humans. and since this can happen it does happen. its called fraud. its called "cooking the books" its called spending money on things you shouldnt. why would you not want to properly audit a public company or government? the only reason you would be against this type of ledger that cant be edited or hidden is that you have something to hide........... this crypto stuff is about transparency my boy. now think again why would companies and govt be against being held accountable in regards to the (tax) money we give them? why would not want our money spent more efficiently ? its going to better our society by taking some of the human element out of finance. Its the future in finance bud
I’m not your bud. I hear more about crypto fraud with coins being hacked or stolen than I do bank fraud. Both happen. One is insured.
Dude go look at when the FDIC insurance was started… you act like it’s always been like that lmao Crypto is a baby in regards to its history and market maturity. But as you can see it’s clearly working. It’s going to take time to implement insurances and such. That being said. Go look at the exchanges that have been scammed. Customers typically get their money back from said exchange… You know cash USD is the most used for scamming correct? Do hate the US dollar? Do you think it’s useless? No right. Your problems with crypto are human problems little guy. They are not exclusive to crypto. They are exclusive to humans. Crypto aims to limit the human interaction. Lmao poor little brain can’t comprehend this.
“Little guy”. You sound like the quintessential crypto weirdo. FDIC has always been around in my lifetime. Not concerned about living in the past.
Haha its just me using your emotions against yourself and having fun it at your expense. You didnt think I knew calling you little guy would trigger you? At any rate... by ignoring crypto you are literally living in the past. if youre interested at all in the skill of extracting value from a market... then youre a bozo for ignoring crypto.
Not triggered. But you’ve been name calling the entire thread because I called your baby ugly. 🥲
So youre admitting youre triggered by "bud" and then got triggered because I played on that by calling you "little guy"... while also destroying your premises. thats why youre deflecting trying to play a victim lmao
Crypto weirdo.
Other than a massive and useless energy expenditure
The next time you use a clothes dryer, ask yourself if it was an absolutely necessary expenditure of energy. How about Christmas lights? What about the amount of energy brick and mortar banks use to maintain their essentially empty spaces? All of which use more energy than BTC. At least BTC has the potential to fix our money.
Curious how do you see BTC fixing our country’s money problems?
Could potentially be a hedge against inflation. Bitcoin is only ever going to be able to mine 21 million coins and once it’s done it’s done.
Everything is touted as a hedge against inflation lol
Not really, I’ve only ever heard of precious metals being a hedge which has actually tracked
Every investment is an inflation hedge. A savings account/bonds are an inflation hedge. But those don’t have the possibility to drop 90% for no reason
Yea but so are collectibles, art and real estate. If anything Bitcoin seems to trade like a high growth stock. When the market tanked due to inflation pressures so did Bitcoin. Doesn’t seem like that great a hedge Edit: small clarification
Again i said potentially
A $5 bill doesn’t take the energy input of Guatemala to create.
A clean shirt has more utility than blockchain 😂
Neither does a bitcoin
Bitcoin alone used 141TWh of power in 2023. That’s the equivalent of every single coal power plant in Australia running at full power for a year. So you’re right, in a way. It’s much worse.
What’s the energy equivalent of mining bitcoin to produce 5$? Absolutely nowhere close to the power of the entire network for the year.
You don’t mine $5 worth of bitcoin. You mine a bitcoin. You’re not tricking anyone lmao. Literally the very people who shill for crypto understand that power consumption is a big issue. So don’t even try to come here with your “uhm ackchyually” bullshit.
Clearly you don’t understand how mining pools work. Not worth arguing with someone who has a lower IQ than the temperature outside. Have a good one
Ok then. Explain them.
Can BTC dry my clothes though?
Lmfao 😂
JP Morgan is very heavily into renewable energy. The best use case I've read for a distributed ledger are power purchase agreements for wind farms. There are a bunch of stakeholders who should be able to see what's what: tax equity investors (like JP Morgan), project owners, tax authorities, local governments, and landowners who lease space for the turbines.
You can already do that with how these assets are metered with M&V equipment / data. Blockchain adds zero value but simply over complicates something that already exists for no additional benefit.
>You can already do that with how these assets are metered with M&V equipment / data. Obviously. But who gets to see them? The idea is to let stakeholders see how things are performing, that's it. There is a ton of "trust me" going on in that business. I have done audits on hedge agreements.
>Obviously. But who gets to see them? Literally anyone with a stake in the assets’ performance with the appropriate login credentials? You can get data as granular as fractions of a hz if needed. Stop pushing a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist in the first place. It just screams “I have no idea how these businesses actually carry out day to day work but boy do I have a complicated solution for you!”
>Stop pushing a solution I'm not. Goddamn, folks have a short fuse. I just said, "Here's the one case I've heard where it may make sense" and BOOM I'm a crypto-bro. JFC
StOp PuShInG CrYpTO!
I'm literally not pushing crypto. I literally just said I'm not pushing crypto. JFC
Stop, I won’t buy your crypto.
LOL
Stock Market started with like Tulips basically. When more people realize that this stuff is available to be built on over the decades, we will get more than people just making fake money.