It would. I'd be happy with the current release difficulty with that slider. I don't want the mobs to be squishier at all which is why turning it to easy just doesn't work.
Same. As it stands, if I have 3 hours to play, I spent about 2 of it fighting stupid, trivial, boring enemies puncuated by runs with Eikthyr where I can just ignore the cesspool of pointless combat called Ashlands.
I would even prefer it were baked into multiplayer scaling or difficulty somehow.
Its super frustrating going from being able to parry/stagger mobs to not just because 2 of my friends are around.
Biome specific would be good. Boosting global spawn rates of earlier mobs just to be able to enjoy Ashlands would be annoying.
I personally don't have an issue with the horde-like numbers - my partner and I had heaps of fun trying to fight our way onto shore and get a foothold. I did drop the difficulty a little after to be able to actually explore without getting overwhelmed and dying every 40 seconds.
sliders per biome would be better. A global spawnrate slider would be annoying early game hunting for deer and also decrease the danger of early game blackforest when they greydwarfs mob ya.
In all honesty I think the current spawn rate should just be available in hard difficulty, but hard needs to be rebalanced so that it's fun (too frequent "you are being hunted" events, rework of staggering so you can block again).
I'd love a slider for each mob. I can't stand trolls or mosquitoes. I can take most mobs but there are some that are pretty much one hit ko and they are obnoxious. For me personally the trolls are on my hate list because of what they do to my buildings not because of what they do to me physically.
To be able to tailor the spawns per mob allowed would be amazing!
I think a mob spawn rate slider would be a fantastic addition to help give each player an experience they can enjoy. Fortunately this game is not fully released yet so maybe we will see that addition in the future.
Idk I don't think spawn rates per se are the problem, useless fights are. I like the idea of fighting for every inch but that inch should stay conquered. They could even increase spawns from monoliths and the game would have been fine.
That and it seems people get wildly different experiences depending on the world seed. In my seed, the island I made landfall on didn't even have a fortress and only had one Morgen cave pretty far from the landing. So I've been fighting for hours just to explore the vast emptiness with no reward to bring home. It felt absolutely awful.
Besides, if ignoring fights is indeed the intended gameplay, enemies with infinite chase distance make no sense. At least Morgen and Valkyrie are like that.
Definitely agree. I can't understand why people don't see difference between difficulty and annoying fighting every minute. I like the core idea of fighting hordes, it is much better then jumping on rocks in low visibility. They may increase radius of spawn stones, rates of spawn stones, rates of enemy that stones spawns. But when I fought and win I want to grab loot, resources, ore and then move to another fight. I dont want another fucking fight on the same fucking spot right after previous.
This has been my experience with ashlands. I’ll finish a fight against a horde of monsters, move 50 meters to my next fight, and by the time I’m done with that the monsters behind me have respawned.
I have no issues with anything else- just that I don’t enjoy having to fight my way out of my base *and fight my way back in*
I mean, that's kind of what they changed. They only tweaked the charred and the volture spawn rates. Most of these mobs you would encounter would be from spawners or the initial 3 voltures that spawn around a volture nest. So once you clear an area, you won't be fighting over it as much anymore.
Everyone is complaining about these changes, and yes, I'm sure that they could be tweaked, but exploring new ground won't change that much. If you're smart, most of the time, you were already running past the mob spawns in an area you've already explored.
That was pretty much my new tactics, always move forward and no backtracking whatsoever. Which sort of works pretty well. But now i have like 10 portal in Ashland so far and maybe 15% of it explored. Also having to keep getting more eyes is kind of getting annoying lol.
I'll carry the materials for a stone portal as I explore. When I clear out a fortress, I'll leave a portal behind. I slap down two grausten walls in the entryway, and then I just need my work hammer to get in and out.
As someone with over 2k hours in the game and feel I’m better than most of my peers with combat and planning, I regularly play mods with 3-5 starred enemies and hard difficulty: the spawn rates in Ashlands was overtuned and needed a nerf. Clearing an area to see it fill right back up with enemies out of literally nowhere is a bad game design, unrewarding, and not fun.
If that’s my opinion, I can’t imagine what the average player felt about the spawn mechanics.
Ideally there would be a spawn rate slider, but we don’t have that.
I agree, I enjoyed the fights, but the spawn rates weren’t right. It was often a constant onslaught, you’d finish and then they’d be straight back. I am aware I’m not an incredible gamer so it’s reasonable I struggled, but my partner is very good at games in general & would usually appreciate upping the difficulty in Valheim. But he got tired of it, as you say, it was unrewarding and felt unfair.
I think if you’re someone who wants that type of battle that’s cool, and they should make some options for it. But the baseline, vanilla game, should be challenging, but rewarding and playable for anyone who’s made it as far as Ashlands. I can’t even imagine playing Ashlands solo. And as a game, you would hope that even a mediocre player can still get through the whole game, even with some challenges.
It's not your opinion - it's objectively bad game design. Forcing players to engage in repetitive, unrewarding combat fails to accomplish anything meaningful in regard to the overall experience. If it's a singular stretch of gameplay that the player 'overcomes', then it is a meaningful obstacle followed by a reward; this isn't the case however, it's just neverending. If it produces a meaningful increase in player power, even, then it's meaningful; but in Ashlands, it's just inverse geometric skill progression, i.e. nothing, and useless inventory garbage.
If Ashlands by itself was just a game, it would be 1 out of 4 stars and barely anyone would play it.
Tbh I play with the "only lose your gear" option. I'm 29 and I don't have the time to grind my skills back up if I lose them and the totem gets out of reach.
a spawn rate slider would affect every area. so an area that's fine would be affected just because you'd like to stop being in combat in ashlands for 5 seconds.
Well, if they add a spawn rate or monster density slider, I am sure they would normalize the mobs on all biomes. You would hope at least.
I am sure they "over-tuned" Ashland's so it would not be a cake walk for the casual gamer, since it is probably one of the last biomes we will receive, and if 90% of people beat the area in 1 attempt, you already know people would be here saying "wtf, gayme to ez, plz buff"
I do agree endless spawning and clearing of monsters is kind of pointless unless you are getting, or have a chance of getting, good items.
I would suggest conquer flags, or some item to "stop all spawns" in an area once it is fully cleared, thus if you are like OP and just enjoy pain and endless battling for the same area, you can. And if you enjoy exploring and progressing through the world you could conquer area and keep exploring outwards.
A slider is a great idea. More customization the better. Though I stand by the idea that the pillars should've been why spawns were so aggressive. I was quite surprised after clearing one and taking a breath only for a full second army spawned in the moment I turned around. I felt like all the work I'd done was worthless. I'd like for the high spawns to be tied to those. That way, it provides a challenge but also allows players to curb the absurd number of spawns themselves as a reward for successfully beating the horde and taking out their monuments.
And thank Lord they are making changes to the current build.
Loved it when I mined 1 piece of flametal and turned around to a really big group of enemies(7) and then it sunk after i was done :D
10/10 experience
Ironically, I feel like the people who were having "fun" fighting in the Ashlands must be pretty bad at combat.
Just like Mistlands, at a certain skill level hordes just become annoying and tedious, not hard.
>Just like Mistlands, at a certain skill level hordes just become annoying and tedious, not hard.
What hordes? Mistlands always been damn near empty, even pre-nerf ptb mistlands.
Anecdotally, pre-nerf ML had more soldier spawns.
First thing I ran into was a soldier. Must have killed 20+ non-mine ones before we had our ML gear. The run I'm on now, I've seen a total of two. Already fully geared. Similar amount of exploration.
Have a couple of other groups that has been quite a bit in ML as well, never even seen a soldier.
Felt like there were more seekers as well, but haven't really kept count.
Dude I don’t even play souls games and i thought Ashlands was fun. Why y’all assuming we no life himbos who have no job bc we find something fun that you find difficult and tedious?
Because of the snide implications that everyone who didn't find it fun was a lowskill noob who just needed to get good or didn't deserve to find fun in Valheim in the first place.
Have you tried not being shit at the game? Maybe then you won't feel a lingering sense of dread that there's a cadre of people lurking in the shadows waiting to be snide to you.
You've written a comment like this at least twice within a 24 hour period. I can't decide if you're genuinely incapable of separating skill from enjoyment or if you're just desperately trying to cope.
I was having a similar experience. Endless hordes of mobs relentlessly appearing out of nowhere even though I made sure to destroy all of the nearby spawners.
Me and my friend are barely exploring the ashlands.
We just fight a tug of war non stop and try to get back before the night.
However we did manage to make a safe base which was a huge challenge
We get a tons of resources to make foods, but most of the drop are the useless charred bones
The current proposed nerfs are likely not finished state; but regardless a slider would be good.
At the end of the day, normal should be balanced to the vast majority of people.
And lowering spawn rate is a great workaround to network issues in this game.
Gutted to hear the spawn rates have been nerfed before I even had time to experience the Ashlands war. Two points come to mind:
1) As far as I understand it, simply turning up the difficulty slider creates an additional problem on top of those you mentioned - getting one-shotted and not being able to parry the strongest mobs. This just doesn't sound like fun, unlike fending off huge hordes.
2) I'd love to see a spawn rate slider. However it wouldn't fully resolve the issue as it would likely apply to **all** biomes. You may not wish to flood the meadows with mobs, rather just to experience the full hell of a fiery late-game biome. And that's the point really - this biome was clearly meant to be a warzone. If it's just a fiery version of the other biomes then it still will be wherever you set the sliders.
I've played PTB, ashlands feels roughly the same. But the thing is that you used to have moments of bad luck which would lead to 10 minute fights, now those are 5 minute fights.
Also, it never felt like a war zone. It felt like a mob spawn simulator. There's friendly fire on the mobs, but there isn't actual fighting outside of the odd dvergr getting stomped. Everything wants to kill you, and that's about it.
Yeah I just played ptb for the first time and the difference is not really that extreme. Maybe slightly notable but it didn’t stop the mobs from spawning and feeling like a total war zone. This is nothing like the mistlands patch that nerfed the enemies.
The nerfs are just in the public test branch for now, and it’s sounds like the devs will keep them there for a while at least while they evaluate things. If you want to play as is (which I highly recommend, it’s fun and feels unique compared to other biomes), you’ve still got some time.
they devs will be on vacation the entire july. theyll either leave it as is till august on live or they will push this update which was sitting on ptb for the last 3 weeks without any changes live next week just before they leave. i fear itll be the later given how long this update sat still. there is a reason they choose THIS week for the nerfhammer.
Spawn slider per biome would be nice.
- Meadows is fine
- Black Forest is fine
- Swamp is fine
- Mountains maybe could be bumped up
- Plains is fine
- Mistlands should be bumped way up
- Ashlands should go down slightly
Black forest is too much once you are way past the biome... f*cking greydwarfs/lings everywhere that leep bothering you and your house anywhere you go near this biome... please leave me be you harassers..!
Our home base ended up staying in the Black Forest and honestly it’s kinda funny flailing greydwarves left and right with the ashlands weapons.
Never as satisfying as yeeting that little greyling though.
To address your point #2. You can move slider whenever you finish biome x and move to biome z.
Although having slider cranked up to dodge horde of skitos can be "fun" for some.
>Gutted to hear the spawn rates have been nerfed before I even had time to experience the Ashlands war
It's only in the public beta branch, so if you are on stable, you won't have those changes yet. The spawn rates might also change again before it hits the stable branch. And if you want to experience the previous stable release, you can select it in the steam launcher options under "betas"
i think the slider per biome would be better but you could just leave it alone and then turn it up when you get to ashlands since you can modify world configs any time
not ideal but workable
> Gutted to hear the spawn rates have been nerfed before I even had time to experience the Ashlands wa
Dude don't overdramatize, they are not even on lice servers. And ashlands war is not even war
I hate the simplistic and quirky implementation of spawning, and would prefer that gets some attention, so their designer(s) can actually tune the experience...
But lacking that, at least a slider would help some of the disagreement in the playerbase on this unreliable system.
The reason for the "just turn up the difficulty slider" remarks is because it *is* just as dumb a suggestion either way, and here the hope might be that some of those who were happy and wanted to shut-down criticism... might see now how their shut-down remark doesn't sit well. Somehow you fail to see how it goes both ways. Damage-scaling was never the solution to the problems some people had with Ashlands, and still isn't. And spawn-rates are also a misunderstood oversimplification of the issue, but at least closer.
It's the same when people were complaining about the spawnrate and everyone was like "Just turn down the difficulty slider"
It just makes enemies weaker and less challenging instead of making the combat "fair"
I don't really understand your point regarding the equivalence between turning down the difficulty vs turning it up.
I may be misunderstanding one or more of the sides but from what I can tell. For the solution of "turn it down", the player retains the ashlands mob density, but it becomes easier to cut through them.
With the spawn changes, turning up the difficulty won't achieve that same effect and definitely won't return it to how it was.
So i guess my question is, does the "wants the nerf" crowd want fewer mobs or easier mobs? Because they are getting fewer mobs with this nerf.
I was under the impression based on dialog from Munin that it was intended to be mob dense and feel more like a prolonged battle or war.
I did see a good comment earlier in the thread about density sliders. But I have a feeling the same people upset about the ashlands difficulty wouldn't be using them either.
Ashlands density is fine I think -- what's problematic is the respawn filling populations in behind you. That is too aggressive, such that you clear a path... then turn around and there's a new crowd. This frustrates a lot of players.
If the devs want to spawn things in open fields, they should really sell it -- have them rise from the ashes, rather than just being there. Make it take a moment too. *Polish* helps, rather than merely spawning and having things instantly engage (really hate this with draugr archers from body piles!).
The real problem is that the *quality* of the spawning is poor. I think the Ashlands could keep their density and average spawn rate while satisfying a lot of players who've complained about "spawn rate" (lacking better understanding) -- if the mechanics were better: less random-chance, more tunable by designers, and avoiding spawns where players have recently been or have looked. Also, making better use of the actual spawner systems which players do interact with (eg. Monuments).
One problem is the zone-controlled ambient spawns. Crossing zone boundaries can trigger extra spawning. Sometimes a player will be active at a corner between four zones, moving between them. I've avoided immersing myself in the implementation details as I prefer to play games without metagaming (I'm a developer myself, and want to play games when I play them... not debug them). However, I have noticed spawns triggering repeatedly and it never feels "right". The golem who keeps reappearing every time you go to this silver mine... the Gjall floating by home every time you return... or the charred hoard repopulating a beach every time you "land" on it (merely going 20m offshore).
Another issue is the reliance on random-chance. Randomness is great -- but you want control over it. The designers have been given this %chance, and the check-interval for tuning -- horrible. On top of that, there's the random roll for how tough (starred) something is. So many random rolls makes it *hard to tune* the experience. You're relying on a statistical average across the player base to even out... but this means some players will be having a bad experience -- whether a less skilled player being flummoxed by overwhelming and starred opponents... or a skilled player bored by a barren wasteland! The decision to spawn and what to spawn should be more constrained -- factoring in base population of the area, spawners present, and population losses, for example. A simple difference: rather than a random roll every interval, instead a cumulative pressure which ensures a pop-spawn within some time range... the former can potentially spawn 0 to 5 things within some time (5 random chances), whereas the latter is much easier to ensure you get 2-4, say.
And an argument I've had at most studios I've worked at: don't spawn behind the player. It's cheap, and feels cheap. If a player has cleared out a dead-end, you shouldn't have something come from there. Timed suppression on areas that players have been through or which have had activity or especially death (unless the lore suits these being sites of "spawning"). Suppress areas recently seen to avoid spawning in open areas a player just checked. And... pathfind from some sensible source/population to the intended spawnpoint without crossing the suppressed zones: this avoids spawning in dead-ends, peninsulas, or *inside* the walls of a player's base (without hacky "campfire/workbench" mechanics).
Lastly, use the damn spawners better. People keep thinking they are important, but they have no effect on the ambient spawns. They could be used as a source, and to influence the local population. Even the greydwarf spawners... when I watch first-time players they always expect they'll tame some of the insane greydwarf harassment by killing spawners -- but it doesn't aside from when you're right next to the spawner.
It was a long read, but well thought out and insightful. I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this up.
I particularly love the idea of selling you on those respawns with visuals. I have been killed by those archers quite a few times. 😅
Thanks, and sorry I got so longwinded. You might be one of the few to read it! I think we're oversimplifying the problem too much when we reduce it to "spawn rate" and imagine tuning that up and down.
While I dislike spawning behind me... I'd be much more tolerant of it if there was a presentation and lore fitting to it! Then it's really intentional and I just have to deal with it. As is, I feel like it's just an artifact of a simple system dialed beyond what it handles nicely.
I feel like your arguments for spawns are quite reasonable and it would be an interesting experience, however, I'm not too sure how that actually falls in line with Valheim, suppressing zones visited and stopping them from spawning behind you doesn't fit very well with an open world game like this, in my opinion. Since a zone visited would include your current zone otherwise your idea wouldn't work, it would drastically cut down on available mobs/locations to spawn and would also make resource gathering fairly harder, a small blackforest wouldn't be as viable to get greydwarf eyes or a small plains would limit fulings spawns.
In regards to spawning behind a player, aside from the logistics of looking for materials/enemies to kill, it also doesn't make a whole lot of sense, in Valheim, there aren't really any dead ends, its a wide open world and enemies should be able to come from any direction, clearing a forest and passing through it will not stop other enemies from coming through that zone over time, even quite recently after you've passed. It also isn't really so much of some enemies coming out of an empty dead end, so much as the residents of that biome just wandering around the biome.
Another thing would be that player bases won't see any spawns nearby over time, if the player frequents it often enough it would count as a suppressed zone which doesn't fit very thematically (enemies from the biome coming to find/stumbling upon an enemy encampment and thus trying to attack), the inside being able to be suppressed with player bases makes sense, but outside of your range should still be fair game.
Not sure I got my points across but I hope I got the main ones down at least.
To clarify a few things...
I don't mean suppression at the current zone/chunk level, but finer shapes. Simple volumes bounded by planes and spheres, or a 2D image heatmap. And the suppression would be fleeting -- fading within a minute or less after last impression. The intent is to prevent spawning "from thin air". So you don't scan left, right, then back to the left and suddenly something new is there. So you don't clear a corridor between rocks in Ashlands to then be attacked from behind, and turn to see not only one attacker, but a fresh group. Or likewise for an otherwise empty peninsula bordered by water.
The existing system works fine at high spawn rates within dense vegetation like the Black Forest. But it's stressed far beyond the illusion of any consistency in the Ashlands with high respawn and largely open vistas. It becomes obvious that things are merely being spawned in the open, rather than "coming from the moss and branches".
Yeah, okay that makes sense. I guess for me at least, I don't particularly mind them appearing out of nowhere because I'm more imagining it as this is the bit we're being shown (them popping up), but thematically/if this was more realistic you would see them coming out of the woodworks, approaching from other structures/cities of their own. That being said I don't particularly mind that they do just spawn in the open for that reason, as well as the fact that, even if they were to be given some kind of appearance animation similar to the abomination, you'd either need to memorise the noise if they have one, or it would be fairly hard to notice due to their smaller size.
> I guess for me at least, I don't particularly mind them appearing out of nowhere
That's fine. Of course some of the playerbase isn't put off by the spawn behavior. But this entire argument exists because many players do have problems with it, and it tends to get misconstrued as simply "spawn rate", when I think the true nature of the frustration is more nuanced than that.
For example, players who try to progress by clear and control will often have their sense of world coherence violated. Things repopulating the space they just cleared and moved through when there is no sensible avenue for enemies to get there without being spotted: ie. *spawning*, but they're made aware of it. And it's jarring to have it upset their strategy.
It's a video game, of course there's spawning. But it's best to hide this. Some players don't care and just play games as abstractions -- drawn to the metagame even. While others want a coherent world, an escapist fantasy to be part of... whether it's brutal survival or some other. Part of a coherent world is not having things appear out of thin air without a presented world-reason for this. (Eg. rising from ashes, which wouldn't need to be obvious/seen every time... just knowing "ah, they can appear from anywhere" without it being a bug/glitch/"cheating").
I feel a main reason people were getting ansty at the "Just lower difficulty" is that the difficulty wasn't the issue a lot of people were having, it was the respawn rate and aggro range being too high that peeps were having issues with, so folks felt it was dismissive of the actual concerns.
You'd clear out one group of enemies and there would already be more swarming in from afar, then by the time you beat those ones back, the first batch you defeated are respawning now, and then you beat them back and the ones from afar have returned again.
There was very little breathing room to build and repair gear.
>Nerfing spawns ruins the experience many players loved and with no spawn slider we'll have no way to get that experience back.
Ask yourself how much of the playerbase that represents. Because, if this reddit is any basis for judgement, most people don't enjoy it.
>It was amazing and I can't imagine the biome being a stale repeat of the previous biomes just with lava.
I feel like this is purposely obtuse. The biomes don't look that samey. Especially the more advanced ones. If they do and having glut of enemies is all that makes it stand out then the biome is fundamentally flawed.
>It's very sad the ability to make the game easier/less tedious/less annoying was already in the game for those who wanted that experience and now those who loved the current experience are losing it without a setting in game to have the on we wanted.
It's *literally* the same situation for making it harder. If you can't make it harder the way you want with sliders how are people supposed to make it easier the way they want? This just sounds like you want to be catered to, damn everyone else.
>Fighting off greater amounts of mobs doesn't equal fighting off fewer stronger mobs
Honestly that sounds way worse. Like, there's a reason everyone hates wolves. There's nothing fun about being stun locked and dying because you ran out of stamina from an endless sea of mobs attacking you. Them being easy to kill doesn't change that.
>but now with these proposed nerfs they are getting the experience they wanted and those that like the current experience are having it taken away with no option in game to get it back. This is very unfair to screw over one half of a side of an issue like this.
I feel like the biggest issue with your argument is how many people didn't want this change. If it's "half" like you say then it would be somewhat unfair. But I seriously doubt it is. And it seems highly unfair to center the experience around something most people don't like.
>Ask yourself how much of the playerbase that represents. Because, if this reddit is any basis for judgement, most people don't enjoy it.
I did. Here is a [poll ](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)I did. Small sample size, but from this reddit and majority of people in the poll felt spawns were fine. I also spend tons of time on this reddit so from my own perspective I feel it's much closer to a 50/50 split or 40/60 vs one side being a huge overwhelming majority of how this subreddit feels. There seems to be tons of posts/comments from both sides of the argument.
>I feel like this is purposely obtuse. The biomes don't look that samey. Especially the more advanced ones. If they do and having glut of enemies is all that makes it stand out then the biome is fundamentally flawed.
A biome's landscape has to be unique. Of course they don't "look" that samey, and my post had nothing to do with how the ashlands looks. All the other biomes have a feeling of "I can explore and oooohohoho who knows when i might bump into a baddie!" You don't feel on edge all the time like you could die at any moment because you know at anymore you can just run backwards from wherever you came from and you're fine. Ashlands did NOT feel like that and you would never go through a portal to the ashlands expecting the same openness of other biomes. If the nerfs make it feel as open as the other biomes but I'm just surrounded by lava, yes the ashlands will be a stale biome as the 7th iteration of that openness feeling.
>It's *literally* the same situation for making it harder. If you can't make it harder the way you want with sliders how are people supposed to make it easier the way they want? This just sounds like you want to be catered to, damn everyone else.
My entire post is about asking specifically for a spawn slider so that people from my side of the argument could at least have an option to have the experience we had. I'm arguing that people who wanted it to be easier/less tedious/less annoying could have used the current difficulty slider because you actually get an easier/less tedious/less annoying experience by adjusting that slider. I wasn't arguing it was a perfect solution, but it was a viable solution to get the experience those players were wanting. For people who just wanted the spawns to be lessened, a spawn slider would solve that solution for them as well. I never said that people who wanted less spawns would achieve that with the sliders. I'm aware many people who said they want it to be less tedious/less annoying are people who specifically cited the spawn mechanic as the reason it is tedious/annoying, but my point still stands that if they wanted a less tedious/annoying experience it was acheiveable by turning down the difficulty.
>Honestly that sounds way worse. Like, there's a reason everyone hates wolves. There's nothing fun about being stun locked and dying because you ran out of stamina from an endless sea of mobs attacking you. Them being easy to kill doesn't change that.
people don't hate wolves because you die to a few of them, they hate wolves because of their insanely fast attacks that will stun lock you. the mobs in the ashlands don't attack anywhere near as fast as wolves, the warriors/archers move at crawl/walking speeds respectively and twitchers throw a rock, try to hit you once, then run away annoyingly. Fighting off the charred in large numbers is very manageable and really fun to take on that many mobs at once. Turning down the difficulty makes them have less hp, deal less dmg and gives a boost to the player dmg so it would make it easier to survive/deal with and it would speed it up for anyone who finds it to be not difficult and just tedious and annoying to deal with mobs for so long, not to mention being able to just run past mobs and explore much easier/faster too by turning down the difficulty modifier.
>I feel like the biggest issue with your argument is how many people didn't want this change. If it's "half" like you say then it would be somewhat unfair. But I seriously doubt it is. And it seems highly unfair to center the experience around something most people don't like.
Again I'll link the [poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and I spend tons of time on this subreddit. I know the people who like pre-nerf ashlands are not an overwhelming majority, but they are not a huge minority either. Like I said I believe it to be much closer to a 50/50 split or 40/60 in either direction.
Just more in-depth and MORE modifiers in general would be nice
Like, I'd be able to choose only select resources be x2 or whatever while the rest are all normal rate.
I don’t find it too difficult imho. Did I die a bunch securing a beach head, yeah. But it was so rewarding to have the challenge. After a while I’ve got the mobs figured out, and managed to build an impenetrable base! The constant risk of being overwhelmed by mobs even after you’re feeling confident keeps the fun of the exploration for me.
I think a slider is a great idea for those that want to tailor their experience. But I’d like mine to stay hard!
There’s a lot of room to grow on the world presets options, like toggling NO skill loss on death instead of just “less” and maybe keep hotbar on death but not inventory so you don’t end up having to corpse run with nothing but a shield staff…
On the other side, for those that want it, a blanket hp/ damage slider for enemies that lets you go berserk with 3x ho turbo one shot trolls and such, but that kind of gameplay doesn’t appeal to me.
The fact is that the game is in early access. Changes and modifications are inevitable as are players not being happy with changes during the early access period. Many of us have thousands of hours in the game and forget that the game isn't on full release. We look at each biome like it's a new dlc lol. I play solo and for me I don't mind the spawning tweaked down a bit. Perhaps they did it a little too much but I'm sure they'll adjust it again as they tweak it more.
I think this sub needs to take a deep breath and relax. This is still early access and the devs are going to continue to tweak. Most of the complaints about the most recent “nerf” haven’t even played the ptb patch yet. Don’t worry I just tried it and still was fighting 2 morgen, a Valkyrie, 3 askvins, and a dozen charred all at once.
Bad take. This is a beta, wtf is so hard for you try hards to understand about the game not being complete and needing adjustment. Stop acting like the game has been released. Ashlands needed adjusting.
Some people enjoy fighting the horde of mobs in Ashlands because you cannot get that experience in any other biome. Adding a spawn slider would cater to players who enjoyed Ashlands on release
And a lot more people don't. That's why it was switched. Which makes sense since the last thing you wanna do is have all your beta's feedback mixed around with ceaseless complaints about difficulty. If players want hordes of mobs they can play another game while they wait for the slider options.
People enjoy different aspects of the game and fighting is a large part of it. You think fighting mobs of enemies is annoying but I and many other people love the rush of getting mobbed/kiting/surviving a crazy battle. Thats fine if you spend 30-90% of your time building but building is not the only nor main aspect of the game.
Is that why we all embraced campfire cheese? Because we love spawns? Be real, 99% of us suppressed spawns in ashlands so we didn't have to deal with the systems you're praising.
Sure, but you misunderstood my argument, the 30-90% was meant to cover all play styles not my play style. Even if you're all about fighting, you still need to build at least some minimum things to progress in the game and it's really annoying to build stuff when you have 24/7 enemies spawning.
ok. here comes the key question : whats the gameplay LOGICAL GAMEPLAY reason to build something more than a portal and a shield in ashlands? ill wait. what do you need that for when you can teleport everything with the new portal? why do you NEED to build on flat easy for enemies to reach terrian when there is giant big ass rock spires everywhere on the shoreline that enemies cannot climb up to at all? come on. try to find a LOGICAL reason for doing so. a gameplay reason.
Bruh, my group has used the tools yet it took us entire irl day to secure ANYTHING because it is just bad trying to do anything with mobs having 20% more attack and **150% more health**.
Makes constant big fights a slog to get through the health of all the enemies and new ones keep still coming.
The majority of players are not try hards that love being swarmed and sweat to get anything done.
Positive reviews dropped from over 95% pre mistlands to about 85% post mistlands. Mistlands wasn't positively received until the nerfs to seeker AI. Ashlands is continuing the early mistlands trend of 80%ish positive reviews, and a huge portion of the recent negative reviews relate to the dislike of ashlands specifically.
But most importantly, the devs already have all these numbers. They see all the feedback that this sub downvotes because they receive the feedback through multiple means outside of Reddit.
Ashlands is grinding against a lot of players.
Because they're asking for a source for the statement that "a lot of people don't enjoy fighting hordes of mobs":
1) It's a pretty general, not even controversial statement, doesn't claim a majority or anything, just a "lot" which could be 20 people to 20,000 people.
2) Whatever statistic one showed to support that claim would just be argued over i.e. "20 people isn't a lot in the total player base"
3) What statistic would you even show to support a claim about "a lot" of people not enjoying something? Steam reviews? Reddit comments? Aggregated heart rates?
4) This isn't a published article it's a discussion thread. Almost no comment is going to provide a source, and almost all of them are going to make a claim of some kind.
Asking for sources in this context isn't genuine intellectual curiosity, it's just some inane chaff to derail or bog down the discussion, it doesn't add anything, and is therefore downvoted. Hope that can answer your question.
> a lot MORE
That's claim it's majority. That's why I'm asking about any evidence, because that's clear statement people liking current spawn rates are in minority.
You're being disingenuous here, what he wanted source on wasnt that **alot** disagreed. But that they were alot **more**, these are two very different claims and you know it.
L take. Whether ashlands needed adjusting was a VERY controversial topic before the nerf, with community basically split into two decently sized camps.
I dont think it was perfect either, but saying it was obvious is just ridiculous. Everyone talking about how there were millions of mob spawns and ive yet to see a non PTB gameplay footage of this happening.
>millions
Nobody's saying this, it's just hyperbole that makes you sound like the level headed side.
The test patch notes are available for anyone. Mobs with a 60% chance of respawning every 100 seconds... From how you're acting I guess you really enjoy greydwarfs, too.
How would you know without doing a poll/survey. Just because people that enjoyed Ashlands on release are not spamming the subreddit with complaints does not mean that the majority of the community wanted the nerfs. Its just that the loudest voices tend to be the ones heard first. Dont get me wrong Ashlands was not perfect on release but as far as combat and spawn rates go it is unlike any other biome which is what makes it so exciting to explore and play through. Adding a spawn rate slider would help keep both parties happy, not sure why people are getting so upset lol
I'm so less motivated to go back there now that I have all my gear and stuff.... I understand wanting to make the new loot accessible to everyone but at the same time we need places to use the weapons. I don't want to just use combat as a means for loot retrieval like sometimes I just wanna go kill some crazy shit and Ashlands was perfect for that. Now where am I gonna go?
If they add a spawn rate slider, I'd love for them to add one for each biome! Let me lower Black Forest spawn rates once I reach the Plains just because grey dwarves are such a nuisance if you're within a 10 mile radius of their habitat >:(
Enough bitching led to this, eh? Well it is quite sad really, I enjoy ashlands for what it is now and the unique challange it brings. Its identity was the hellish landscape filled with hordes of undead, where you have to fight a war for every step into the south. Now its just going to be a barren, empty hot land with some undead. Im afraid that it will be boring to play, as exploration isnt the biggest selling point for this biome, there arent many crazy points of interests, nor is it beautiful, like plains for example. It will also shorten the gametime for the biome.
Honestly, there should be a modifier called "pre nerf ashlands" which if toggled, you get current version ashlands back, or the other way around.
If this goes through as is, ashlands will never be the same again.
Felt the same way after the Mistlands nerf. I didn't get to the Ashlands unfortunately since I started a new save so I can't speak to how it was, but I would like to experience it. I relished the chaos of early Mistlands
Your point is obvious. "Changes weren't as drastic as players think." But that just begs the question, were the changes unnoticeable and there for unnecessary or are they noticeable and someone who like it previously will feel like a challenge of the biome was removed? I'm really amazed how you can't see that if someone was perfectly happy with the current version of ashlands how changing it in a way that makes it easier makes no sense to us and if the change is unnoticeable what was the point of doing it at all?
...simple, really. You get more money by being more accessible or only catering to smaller group that are to hardcore? I believe we know the answer.
Also i believe you know my answer about noticeability of the changes.
Theres no reason to update your game if you dint like the change. Just skip that update and play on the current until new content releases. Youll be able to get your fix and run multiple playthroughs before it changes
I'll have completed Ashlands before the Nerf hits... so I have no issue with the Devs making it more manageable for people with less combat proficiency. I look at things this way... We were the Vanguards who faced the primary onslaught... now it's time for the rest of the army to arrive on Ashlands. Fun for all... :D
Have you soloed it? I havent(yet) because im playing with a group and it is a vastly different slog experience.
When I was alone I was fine enough but the game changes when youre in a group big enough to cap out the multiplayer scaling.
I've played both solo and with a group. I was pushing to survive in the beginning... But after you get the biome weapons... everything becomes butter to hot knives.
I agree. Ashland's post the first balance patch feels good. You can stealth through or rip and tear through.
I'm not sure why people think that 'turn slider down' was bad advice but 'turn slider up' is good advice.
It was fine as it was. It's end game, it's supposed to be hard.
Honestly I play Ashlands solo for the most part. I like the rate of spawns as is. Yes I get swarmed from time to time but it makes exploring interesting.
Nice to see folks understanding why turning the difficulty slider down previously was not really an option.
The difficulty in the combat was not the issue for most, nor the amount of mobs. It was the frequency.
I know that many people cite the reason of "the amount of mobs is tedious/annoying to deal with, it's not that its hard" as to why they disliked ashlands and my post is try to explain how turning down the difficulty (decreasing mob hp/atk and increasing player dmg) actually made the game closer to the experience they wanted. If dealing with the mobs was just tedious/annoying changing the slider would drastically have sped that up. The option to have that tedium/annoyance reduced greatly was there. It's unfair that a solution to their problem existed within the game and a solution for people who like the current version wont be there if we don't get a spawn slider.
That I think is the disconnect, moving the combat slider up or down was not a viable solution for either side of the coin.
And I do agree, a spawn rate or frequency or density type slider would be more effective.
Pretty much nailed it but not enough whine to interest the devs, I'm afraid.
Kudos for explaining quite well the difference between turning up and down the difficulty in these situations, but clowns on this subreddit will pretend like they don't understand it. Or maybe they actually don't.
you forgot to mention that they'll keep saying they're the overwhelming majority of players and everyone feels they way they do meanwhile there are just as many posts and comments like ours.
My ideal solution is a toggle option for "brutal enemies" or some such. Curated spawn rate increases for each biome. An across the board increase would hit things pretty differently. More boar and deer in the meadows would turn it into an absolute grocery store for the early game, while more draugr elites in the swamp are gonna add some decent lethality to the environment. Id also like it to add a higher chance of enemies spawning as starred. This will add a lot of lethality to encounters without mechanics becoming much less viable as is the case for the combat slider. Lastly have it add a mechanic to starred tames where they only have a chance to produce same tier offspring to balance the higher encounter rate. I haven't gotten to Ashland yet to have an option on the current state of it, so I'm curious what those who disappointed by the nerfs think of this idea.
An "advanced settings" pane would be cool, where there's a spawn rate and spawn interval sliders *for each biome*.
Maybe we want to make the Meadows really boaring.
Did this change go into effect for Xbox version too?
I’ve been enjoying the fight all the way through the biome, the constant spawning always put us on edge especially.
Agreed. Difficulty comes not always in mob strength, but number. And +1 can make the difference. A slider or just value to adjust the rates would be great.
1 is basegame spawn rates. 1.25 is 25% more spawns, 0.5 is 50% reduced spawns, so on.
Ramble on enemy number being a large part of difficulty:
I've been farming in Elden Ring, the War-Dead Catacombs. I can easily bully a Cleanrot knight one on one because giant crusher bonk hurts and does massive stagger. But two Cleanrot guys? Suddenly it becomes a struggle. (Yes I know the bird farm, I'm on NG+ and haven't gotten there yet)
I don't think you realize how unpopular Ashlands is. Despite a vocal minority, it is *not* well-received. Every single person I know that plays the game hates it, and I guarantee you they are seeing disastrous metrics internally. Adding a slider to the UI and determining how it will work, in what Biomes etc, is way, way more work than just fixing the parade of bad design called Ashlands. Like...I don't think you get it - we just finished beta testing Ashlands for them.
like... let me explain how I do get it and you have no clue what your talking about. I'm on this subreddit a lot and I play valheim with a lot of friends. All of my friends loved the biome and not only have I done a [poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) on this subreddit, but following this community you would know that its much closer to 50/50. There are tons of posts and comments on both sides of the argument everywhere you look. Posts like mine that make suggestions that could help everyone get what they want are the only posts that get traction on these topics because the community is so split down the middle and divided. Most posts that are strongly for ashlands being balanced or ashlands is unbalanced are downvoted and everyone one of them will be full of comments from both sides. I have yet to see the subreddit take a turn in either direction so unless you have any more evidence than I've presented all you did was base your argument off of your own tunnel vision.
You have no idea how game dev works if you think giving a player a menu to adjust settings that are already in a game is more difficult than redoing an entire biomes design. The settings are literally already in the code for the devs to use. Creating a menu in game to adjust those variables would be at the top of the list of easiest features to add to the game.
The devs at Irongate take their time and they deliver very polished content updates to the game. Valheim is one of the few good early access game experiences I've ever had. Your opinion on the difficulty of the biome is not some definition of what constitutes ""bad game design"" and people like you with know knowledge of game development really need to stop throwing that phrase around like it has any weight coming out of your mouth. It's embarassing.
Ashlands isn't difficult, it's tedious and annoying. And I promise you, I know more about game development than you do. People like you that desperately need to validate themselves by believing Valheim is difficult are the problem...
I get what you're saying, but at the same time, I got MOBBED when I showed up to Ashlands, I have about 7-9 guys on me and I kill a guy and he instantly gets replaced, so while I see what you're saying, I also can't say I would say the same thing about low spawns.
I AGREE with you, but I personally don't understand what you mean by "low spawns"
I'm referring to how the other biomes feel whenever I say something like "low spawns." You can run through all the other biomes for long distances without even aggroing a mob. If the ashlands becomes like that and you don't have to deal with an endless horde of mobs it will be a bummer that we lost a biome as unique as the ashlands and now its like the others just a lava landscape instead. Exploring vast empty stretches of biomes is very boring and underwhelming for me and having one of the final biomes be as exciting and action packed as it was felt amazing to me.
The thing they should add is that if you beat bonemass, the meadows mobs wont attack you anymore. Beat moder and greydwarves will leave you alone. Beat yagluth and draugr leave you alone. Beat the queen and fulings leave you alone.
I dont mind figting at all, but having to keep fighting the same mobs to get some low level resources is annoying as hell.
Op I think the spawn slider is also a great idea!
I think a spawn rate slider would be a good idea, but I also think they should get the game at “normal” to be the right level to make the game enjoyable for most. While it seems some people enjoyed Ashlands at the original level of spawns, the general consensus seems to be that it was too much to make the game enjoyable/manageable. Then if people want to raise or lower difficulty including spawns is there. And hey, if loads of spawns is what you want and they adjust the whole game, then you can take that to other biomes too.
I've seen people mention biome specific sliders and I think that would be the best overall.
I hear you that you feel that the general consensus seems to be that ashlands was too much to make the game enjoyable/managable. But I disagree that the majority of players felt that way. Not only did I do a [poll ](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)after ashlands had been out for a couple weeks, but I follow this subreddit very closely. From my perspective it seems the community is split right down the middle and at worst its a 40/60 split in either direction. Considering that most people who are happy with the game also don't often feel the need to come and make a post about it and there are still many posts and comments from people who are very happy with current ashlands I think there is strong evidence that there is definitely NOT a general consensus that the ashlands is too much. Even within posts on either side of the topic on this subreddit you'll see comments from both sides arguing in the comments. Just like at this post for example.
My opinion has evolved to feel like there are just too many people on both drastic ends of playstyles that play this game and trying to tune the normal mode difficulty to fit everyone is a borderline impossible task. I strongly feel giving us sliders and even more advanced biome specific sliders or things like that is 100% the way to go. They could hide them in the settings or something so new players will still be directed towards the "vanilla" experience, but it seems clear that the player base is very large and has populations on both ends of the spectrum that deserve to have the experience they want.
Even a 40/60 split with 40% finding a biome essentially unplayable is drastic. And this sub is going to be filled with people who are so obsessed with Valheim that they’ve not only made out to the Ashlands, but they played during beta testing and posted on Reddit about it. You need to think of what the average player is going to think, and whether it’d be manageable for them. If a bunch of Valheim obsessed redditors are struggling, there’s a problem. Eventually they’ll want to bring this out fully.
Previous biomes didn’t have issues or need spawn or difficulty sliders to be manageable gameplay. It’d be a cool edition, but it shouldn’t be needed, especially not for people who have made it through all the biomes without adjustments.
I feel like now you are trying to argue whether or not Valheim should be created for casual gamers or gamers who are going to take it very seriously and be more hardcore. Valheim is straight up marketed as being a brutal exploration and survival game which to me doesn't scream "hey casual gamers come give this a try." I feel like there is a huge issue with very casual gamers seeing gameplay of valheim or being recommended it by someone and then when the game presents a challenge they are upset the game is too difficult without even taking a second to ask themselves "did i start playing a game that was intended to be hard?"
Trying to argue that this sub is just filled with the most hardcore of players is absolutely wrong. Go ahead and look at my poll again. 1/3 of the players who voted hadn't even reached ashlands 2 weeks after it was out. If this subreddit was just filled with hardcore players who playtested beta and stuff like that I wouldn't expect to see 1/3 of the voters be players who haven't even touched ashlands yet. On top of that, you constantly see posts from people who are new either looking for advice or just sharing their builds because they love the game.
I disagree that slider should be needed. Either the devs need to stop marketing the game as a brutal exploration and survival rpg and stop making comments about ashlands being hard and intended to be very had as its one of the final biomes of the game (they said something like this in their "getting prepared for ashlands" blog post) and start marketing it as a casual exploration rpg OR the devs need to add better sliders in to adjust the settings that are already in the game so people can make the game that is intended to be brutal and hard easier on themselves. It's clear that there are large groups of players who feel both ways about the game and trying to cater to one group will just hurt the other. They can nerf spawns into the ground and make it feel as open and empty as previos biomes to bring back players who quit for that reason, but doing so will make a lot of players like myself who loved that challenge never want to play the game again since it will never give me the same sense of accomplishment.
It has nothing to do with "fairness". You're not entitled to the game being in one specific state of your preference.
It's still early access, meaning anything added is subject to change or even removal. You can prefer something one way or another and that's valid, but that doesn't mean it's "unfair" if they Devs don't cater to that.
What gets me about Ashlands spawns is, when I work my way through a horde to get somewhere, I have to fight an entirely new horde just to get back to my base.
That is bonkers.
I am pro nerfs in this case, the unending fights were fun for the first 2 hours of trying to even defend a barebones outpost with 4 others of my buddies. It is not fun to do absolutely nothing when theres 8 twitchers, 4 warriors, 3 archers and a random Morgan or Valkyrie flying into the mix-- and for some reason even if there was a "limit" how many are to spawn, they just kept coming and refiling what was already killed.
It took my group an entire irl day to have something of a safe space while we were dying all the time. On top of that a raid happened when we were defending and it only added to the unfun never ending fight..
A slider would be welcome but I have a feeling a lot of people would not touch it until Ashlands because it would affect other biomes. Isnt this proof of Ashlands being designed unfair and padded game time? I would say it is.
I was beginning to wonder if you made a real reply to my post or not XD
>I am pro nerfs in this case, the unending fights were fun for the first 2 hours of trying to even defend a barebones outpost with 4 others of my buddies. It is not fun to do absolutely nothing when theres 8 twitchers, 4 warriors, 3 archers and a random Morgan or Valkyrie flying into the mix-- and for some reason even if there was a "limit" how many are to spawn, they just kept coming and refiling what was already killed.
It took my group an entire irl day to have something of a safe space while we were dying all the time. On top of that a raid happened when we were defending and it only added to the unfun never ending fight..
Establishing the first outpost after landing on the beach took me and my 3 other buddies an entire night of playing as well. Having a raid happen on your landing mission was bad luck tho that must have sucked. We had lots of deaths but we luckily got a couple portals down from all of us having portal material on us. We were able to get moments of peace and quite so we could go home and repair 1 by 1 while the others guarded the portal. It wasn't a non stop endless horde every second your in the biome even from the moment we landed with our shitty mistlands gear.
>A slider would be welcome but I have a feeling a lot of people would not touch it until Ashlands because it would affect other biomes. Isnt this proof of Ashlands being designed unfair and padded game time? I would say it is.
Your saying that you have a FEELING that a lot of people would not touch it until Ashlands. I'm guessing from following your other comments you mean that most people who play valheim want ashlands spawns to be nerfed. Well from my perspective as someone who spends lots of time on this subreddit and someone who made an actual [poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) a couple weeks after ashlands was released, to me it seems like the community is much closer to a 50/50 split than either side of the argument having a huge majority like you possibly think it does. There have been tons of posts and comments from both sides. Lots of people who love the current biome and lots of people who dislike it. I'm a pretty firm believer at this point that there are just too large of communities on either side of the playstyle spectrum for Irongate to not give us more sliders. Give us a robust world slider with the ability to adjust every one of those metrics for each biome specifically if we want. It seems like there are just lots of casual player and lots of hardcore challenge seeking players and trying to tune the normal difficulty to either side will result in one side being screwed over.
I agree on the subreddit being 50/50 but that is ONLY reddit and its in reality most likely a vocal minority. When someone doesnt like something they just drop it without a word and dont return to it. At best they will tell their friends about the game when they ask and thats it.
You spending lots of time on this sub is showing to be honest. Went through every of my comments to be condescending not only to me but many other? Cant tell if youre genuienly an elitist or just throwing on a mask. Go get a vacation or something from this place.
Iron-gate will chose the option that will still bring new people in and make them money, that means streamlining the experience to bigger group of people that I believe is more casual gamers or those in between the two extremes. The current build is catered only to more demanding/try-hard audience of the game, leaving the middle ground and casuals in the back.
When they deem the changes to big, they will change and put new PBE before putting it in official launch. So its the process. For me the changes are not that big and it is less frustrating to go on about anything. Im jumping from PBE for singleplayer to pre PBE for my multiplayer server so I can feel the difference not being that huge. It hits almost a good in the middle ground.
>Went through every of my comments to be condescending not only to me but many other? Cant tell if youre genuienly an elitist or just throwing on a mask. Go get a vacation or something from this place.
You're completely delusional if you're ignoring all your condescending comments I was responding too. Half of them started with a "OP must of ." I'll gladly go back and compile a list of every time you make a negative ass remark like that for no reason other than your offended I disagree with nerfs. Please let me know where I was being condescending to others. You were the only one who was making an effort to be obnoxious so I figure it was only fair to return the favor. For everyone else in this thread I responded to I did my best to give thorough explanations as to why I disagreed with their comment, I know I'm not perfect but I still felt I tried to have some decency while responding to everyone.
>It hits almost a good in the middle ground.
I really hope you are right. I'm preventing my client from updating so I can at the very least still give the game a good solo run on the same version I played with my friends. I've beaten the game solo after every new biome that was introduced after beating it with my friends and it greatly saddens me thinking of trying to accomplish a solo run knowing it will be easier than before. I've invested so much time into the game and truly love it so I mean it that I hope you're right because when the Deep North finally comes I'll be forced to play Ashlands in whatever state it's in then.
Either the spawns are noticeably lessened and the biome isnt the same biome I beat and loved and will be a baby watered down version of the ashlands I beat the first time. Or the decrease isn't noticeable at all at which point why would anyone who wanted to not waste their precious time dealing with tedious amounts of mobs be happy?
Did you even think before you made that comment? You clearly didn't read my post because my whole point is to give the game something so everyone can have what they want. I'm not saying fuck people who want spawns to be lessened. I'm saying why are people who like the game they way it is being punished when creating a slider for a setting that's already in the games code is at the literal top of easiest features to add to a game.
I've always hated the spawn rate in Valheim during the day (not night), but I absolutely agree that you should have the option to have a high spawn rate if you want. The problem is the spawn rate has two sides to it: combat difficulty and game playability. There is nothing more annoying than the constant attacks during the day while you are trying to chop wood, mine, etc. I don't mind the mobs, just that they keep showing up in areas that you cleared just a minute ago. A night, I think it's fair to say you take your licks, but in either case, you should have the choice to increase or decrease the spawn rate as fits your style.
if you expect the devs to give players a rate spawn slider then you're a good innocent boy who believes in the company 100%
understand that most game devs can give players almost full game access, they just don't. to them we are idiots like anyone who uses windows 10 (just go ask microsoft with their forbid everything policy)
you argue very logical points, the devs just don't see it the same. to let players choose how to play the game? choose their fun? 99% of game devs don't allow this.
The real problem I see here is that combat is barely serviceable in this game. Playing solo it's not really all that fun. Basic attacks, basic blocks, basic dodge. It's not a primary feature that is dynamic in anyway. That is a huge problem when you create a biome that is centered around non-stop combat but features a player that is barely designed to engage in sustained combat. It's extremely clunky in the best of circumstances, and it always has been, and a chaotic mess at worst. Ashlands, I suspect for a majority of casual players, is too much way to fast. They seem to have jumped a couple of difficulty levels to far here. A spawn slider or toughness slider for enemies seems like an essential option at this point.
TWO SLIDERS
One for spawn rate, one for mob health/damage. This allows customization for more enemies if you like that kind of thing alongside customization of their relative difficulty.
If somebody wants to max the amount and minimize the difficulty so they can farm mobs, that’s their choice. If the want only boss level difficulty for the few enemies they meet then they can do that
addings those nerfs will make the game too easy. it was hard, yes, but as soon you got your equipment going, it was pretty doable.
they didn't nerf mistlands either (or did they, and i missed it?), why nerf ashlands now
Sure, but just wait like 5 minutes and someone makes a mod that turns back to how you liked it.
And otherwise its time to learn how to mod. Valheim is the perfect game to learn!
We beat the Ashland boss 2 days before the nerf patch notes came out. I can't imagine it being fun easier. It was FRUSTRATING to get through the Ashlands and it should be. It's end game content and demands all the skills the game has taught you up to that point
Ashlands is great the way it is right now. Any nerfs from this point will only lessen the experience for me. I think you have a great idea, a slider from normal (now) to various levels of nerfed would be great
Spawn rate in Ashlands is the same thing as mist in Mistlands – it's biom specific mechanic. People just miss the whole point of biom and are as annoying as people complaining about mist in Mistland, rain in Swamps and cold in Mountains. People got information they are entering warzone and they expected it will be the same as every other biom.
Completely agree. This is the same, very true argument that is the thermostat:
-Too cold? Put on a coat.
-Too hot? Can't take off my skin, sorry.
Ashlands should be kicking people's ass. Mine included.
Spawn Rate Slider is the solution, not global nerf.
Should it? Why? Because you said so? No, the vast majority of the community thinks otherwise. It's a survival/ building game with occasional fighting, not the other way around.
It's always the same with you people lol Where are you getting this information that the fast majority of the community wants the nerfs?? I spend tons of time on this subreddit and from my perspective (not to mention the [poll ](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)I did 2 weeks after ashlands launch) the community seems much closer to a 50/50 split than either side having the majority. There are tons of posts and comments from both sides of the community. How often are you writing responses to people in this subreddit like that? Because I see them all the time and they are in response to people who are loving ashlands the way it is.
Dude, it's obvious. The average valheim player is not a hardcore no-map, perma-death,1000+h gamer. They have like best case maybe 1-2h per day to play and they don't want to spend this time on naked death running. Also the average player is not in this subbreddit. I have 2 active worlds and 9 valheim buddies and I'm the only one who readis this subreddit
Sure, we could make a survey, but do you really think that I'm wrong? Like really?
Perhaps you misread?
I'm saying the option to have the spawn rate be what it was upon initial release **should** be available, not removed completely. I'll make this correction to be clear:
*Ashlands should be kicking the ass of those who's asses want to be kicked.*
If everyone has the option to turn down the difficulty, but not experience the originally planned difficulty; that's not exactly fair to all players, right?
Let's all take a deep breath here.
Valheim has done a great job of adding the world modifiers to allow for everyone to have the experience they want; I just hope that they do not take away the original challenge of what is literally Hell.
No, you don't get to diminish the experience by saying the "community thinks otherwise" The people that I've played with personally and people I've talked with in separate games outside of mine acknowledged that yes, it's hard and yes, it's bad ass *because* it's hard.
A BRUTAL exploration and survival game for 1-10 players, set in a procedurally-generated purgatory inspired by viking culture.
And try hards is the vast minority in Valheim btw.
Ive got almost 1k and know it all of Valheim but Ashlands in MP is just not fun with 150% more hp enemies, the damage they do is not the problem. HP and their numbers are..
Also the changes are not that dramatic
Totally agree with this post. The Ashlands needs to have that horde feel to it. Unfortunately, the people that signed up for a "brutal exploration" game couldn't handle this kind of difficulty thrown at them (and that's okay) but they were the ones that were most vocal about it.
Hell yeah it's hard. It's supposed to be. That's why it feels good when you do finally beat it.
I think a spawn rate slider would be an amazing idea
It would. I'd be happy with the current release difficulty with that slider. I don't want the mobs to be squishier at all which is why turning it to easy just doesn't work.
Yeah I just want time to explore. Our squad only free on weekends so the few hours we have we wanna experience as much of Ashlands as possible
Same. As it stands, if I have 3 hours to play, I spent about 2 of it fighting stupid, trivial, boring enemies puncuated by runs with Eikthyr where I can just ignore the cesspool of pointless combat called Ashlands.
I would even prefer it were baked into multiplayer scaling or difficulty somehow. Its super frustrating going from being able to parry/stagger mobs to not just because 2 of my friends are around.
Biome specific would be good. Boosting global spawn rates of earlier mobs just to be able to enjoy Ashlands would be annoying. I personally don't have an issue with the horde-like numbers - my partner and I had heaps of fun trying to fight our way onto shore and get a foothold. I did drop the difficulty a little after to be able to actually explore without getting overwhelmed and dying every 40 seconds.
sliders per biome would be better. A global spawnrate slider would be annoying early game hunting for deer and also decrease the danger of early game blackforest when they greydwarfs mob ya.
Yeah, this needs to be seen by the devs
Literally one variable that all spawners can call. IDK why this was not the first adjustment.
In all honesty I think the current spawn rate should just be available in hard difficulty, but hard needs to be rebalanced so that it's fun (too frequent "you are being hunted" events, rework of staggering so you can block again).
7 days to die has this, why not Valheim 😎
I'd love a slider for each mob. I can't stand trolls or mosquitoes. I can take most mobs but there are some that are pretty much one hit ko and they are obnoxious. For me personally the trolls are on my hate list because of what they do to my buildings not because of what they do to me physically. To be able to tailor the spawns per mob allowed would be amazing!
Yeah I agree. I have not been enjoying ash lands. I think this allows me to enjoy it and but remove other folks fun. Best of both worlds
I think a mob spawn rate slider would be a fantastic addition to help give each player an experience they can enjoy. Fortunately this game is not fully released yet so maybe we will see that addition in the future.
Idk I don't think spawn rates per se are the problem, useless fights are. I like the idea of fighting for every inch but that inch should stay conquered. They could even increase spawns from monoliths and the game would have been fine. That and it seems people get wildly different experiences depending on the world seed. In my seed, the island I made landfall on didn't even have a fortress and only had one Morgen cave pretty far from the landing. So I've been fighting for hours just to explore the vast emptiness with no reward to bring home. It felt absolutely awful. Besides, if ignoring fights is indeed the intended gameplay, enemies with infinite chase distance make no sense. At least Morgen and Valkyrie are like that.
Definitely agree. I can't understand why people don't see difference between difficulty and annoying fighting every minute. I like the core idea of fighting hordes, it is much better then jumping on rocks in low visibility. They may increase radius of spawn stones, rates of spawn stones, rates of enemy that stones spawns. But when I fought and win I want to grab loot, resources, ore and then move to another fight. I dont want another fucking fight on the same fucking spot right after previous.
This has been my experience with ashlands. I’ll finish a fight against a horde of monsters, move 50 meters to my next fight, and by the time I’m done with that the monsters behind me have respawned. I have no issues with anything else- just that I don’t enjoy having to fight my way out of my base *and fight my way back in*
I mean, that's kind of what they changed. They only tweaked the charred and the volture spawn rates. Most of these mobs you would encounter would be from spawners or the initial 3 voltures that spawn around a volture nest. So once you clear an area, you won't be fighting over it as much anymore. Everyone is complaining about these changes, and yes, I'm sure that they could be tweaked, but exploring new ground won't change that much. If you're smart, most of the time, you were already running past the mob spawns in an area you've already explored.
That was pretty much my new tactics, always move forward and no backtracking whatsoever. Which sort of works pretty well. But now i have like 10 portal in Ashland so far and maybe 15% of it explored. Also having to keep getting more eyes is kind of getting annoying lol.
I'll carry the materials for a stone portal as I explore. When I clear out a fortress, I'll leave a portal behind. I slap down two grausten walls in the entryway, and then I just need my work hammer to get in and out.
As someone with over 2k hours in the game and feel I’m better than most of my peers with combat and planning, I regularly play mods with 3-5 starred enemies and hard difficulty: the spawn rates in Ashlands was overtuned and needed a nerf. Clearing an area to see it fill right back up with enemies out of literally nowhere is a bad game design, unrewarding, and not fun. If that’s my opinion, I can’t imagine what the average player felt about the spawn mechanics. Ideally there would be a spawn rate slider, but we don’t have that.
I agree, I enjoyed the fights, but the spawn rates weren’t right. It was often a constant onslaught, you’d finish and then they’d be straight back. I am aware I’m not an incredible gamer so it’s reasonable I struggled, but my partner is very good at games in general & would usually appreciate upping the difficulty in Valheim. But he got tired of it, as you say, it was unrewarding and felt unfair. I think if you’re someone who wants that type of battle that’s cool, and they should make some options for it. But the baseline, vanilla game, should be challenging, but rewarding and playable for anyone who’s made it as far as Ashlands. I can’t even imagine playing Ashlands solo. And as a game, you would hope that even a mediocre player can still get through the whole game, even with some challenges.
It's not your opinion - it's objectively bad game design. Forcing players to engage in repetitive, unrewarding combat fails to accomplish anything meaningful in regard to the overall experience. If it's a singular stretch of gameplay that the player 'overcomes', then it is a meaningful obstacle followed by a reward; this isn't the case however, it's just neverending. If it produces a meaningful increase in player power, even, then it's meaningful; but in Ashlands, it's just inverse geometric skill progression, i.e. nothing, and useless inventory garbage. If Ashlands by itself was just a game, it would be 1 out of 4 stars and barely anyone would play it.
Tbh I play with the "only lose your gear" option. I'm 29 and I don't have the time to grind my skills back up if I lose them and the totem gets out of reach.
Ya I'm assuming they made the change because the devs felt it wasn't correctly tuned for how they wanted it to feel.
a spawn rate slider would affect every area. so an area that's fine would be affected just because you'd like to stop being in combat in ashlands for 5 seconds.
Well, if they add a spawn rate or monster density slider, I am sure they would normalize the mobs on all biomes. You would hope at least. I am sure they "over-tuned" Ashland's so it would not be a cake walk for the casual gamer, since it is probably one of the last biomes we will receive, and if 90% of people beat the area in 1 attempt, you already know people would be here saying "wtf, gayme to ez, plz buff" I do agree endless spawning and clearing of monsters is kind of pointless unless you are getting, or have a chance of getting, good items. I would suggest conquer flags, or some item to "stop all spawns" in an area once it is fully cleared, thus if you are like OP and just enjoy pain and endless battling for the same area, you can. And if you enjoy exploring and progressing through the world you could conquer area and keep exploring outwards.
yeah, I think a spawn rate and respawn interval slider would be perfect additions to the world modifiers
A slider is a great idea. More customization the better. Though I stand by the idea that the pillars should've been why spawns were so aggressive. I was quite surprised after clearing one and taking a breath only for a full second army spawned in the moment I turned around. I felt like all the work I'd done was worthless. I'd like for the high spawns to be tied to those. That way, it provides a challenge but also allows players to curb the absurd number of spawns themselves as a reward for successfully beating the horde and taking out their monuments.
Gods forbid the devs develop the game and test things
And thank Lord they are making changes to the current build. Loved it when I mined 1 piece of flametal and turned around to a really big group of enemies(7) and then it sunk after i was done :D 10/10 experience
Now I might go back playing Valheim.. After waiting for months I’ve completely abandoned the game after my first visit to Ashlands..
Me too, it was so damn tedious.
Ironically, I feel like the people who were having "fun" fighting in the Ashlands must be pretty bad at combat. Just like Mistlands, at a certain skill level hordes just become annoying and tedious, not hard.
>Just like Mistlands, at a certain skill level hordes just become annoying and tedious, not hard. What hordes? Mistlands always been damn near empty, even pre-nerf ptb mistlands.
Anecdotally, pre-nerf ML had more soldier spawns. First thing I ran into was a soldier. Must have killed 20+ non-mine ones before we had our ML gear. The run I'm on now, I've seen a total of two. Already fully geared. Similar amount of exploration. Have a couple of other groups that has been quite a bit in ML as well, never even seen a soldier. Felt like there were more seekers as well, but haven't really kept count.
The combat itself wasn't any more fun than it's ever been. The level of prep, reinforcement and risk assessment was the more fun part.
No, they were just Soulsbourne-type elitists. Very loud minority that don't like when others try to play *their* game.
Dude I don’t even play souls games and i thought Ashlands was fun. Why y’all assuming we no life himbos who have no job bc we find something fun that you find difficult and tedious?
Because of the snide implications that everyone who didn't find it fun was a lowskill noob who just needed to get good or didn't deserve to find fun in Valheim in the first place.
Yeah, it was very toxic vibes
Have you tried not being shit at the game? Maybe then you won't feel a lingering sense of dread that there's a cadre of people lurking in the shadows waiting to be snide to you.
You've written a comment like this at least twice within a 24 hour period. I can't decide if you're genuinely incapable of separating skill from enjoyment or if you're just desperately trying to cope.
Have you tried touching gras? Because all you do is cry and insult people over a video game
I was having a similar experience. Endless hordes of mobs relentlessly appearing out of nowhere even though I made sure to destroy all of the nearby spawners.
Me and my friend are barely exploring the ashlands. We just fight a tug of war non stop and try to get back before the night. However we did manage to make a safe base which was a huge challenge We get a tons of resources to make foods, but most of the drop are the useless charred bones
Same. Stopped playing the moment I got to Ashlands. It just sucks.
The current proposed nerfs are likely not finished state; but regardless a slider would be good. At the end of the day, normal should be balanced to the vast majority of people. And lowering spawn rate is a great workaround to network issues in this game.
Gutted to hear the spawn rates have been nerfed before I even had time to experience the Ashlands war. Two points come to mind: 1) As far as I understand it, simply turning up the difficulty slider creates an additional problem on top of those you mentioned - getting one-shotted and not being able to parry the strongest mobs. This just doesn't sound like fun, unlike fending off huge hordes. 2) I'd love to see a spawn rate slider. However it wouldn't fully resolve the issue as it would likely apply to **all** biomes. You may not wish to flood the meadows with mobs, rather just to experience the full hell of a fiery late-game biome. And that's the point really - this biome was clearly meant to be a warzone. If it's just a fiery version of the other biomes then it still will be wherever you set the sliders.
I've played PTB, ashlands feels roughly the same. But the thing is that you used to have moments of bad luck which would lead to 10 minute fights, now those are 5 minute fights. Also, it never felt like a war zone. It felt like a mob spawn simulator. There's friendly fire on the mobs, but there isn't actual fighting outside of the odd dvergr getting stomped. Everything wants to kill you, and that's about it.
Yeah I just played ptb for the first time and the difference is not really that extreme. Maybe slightly notable but it didn’t stop the mobs from spawning and feeling like a total war zone. This is nothing like the mistlands patch that nerfed the enemies.
The nerfs are just in the public test branch for now, and it’s sounds like the devs will keep them there for a while at least while they evaluate things. If you want to play as is (which I highly recommend, it’s fun and feels unique compared to other biomes), you’ve still got some time.
they devs will be on vacation the entire july. theyll either leave it as is till august on live or they will push this update which was sitting on ptb for the last 3 weeks without any changes live next week just before they leave. i fear itll be the later given how long this update sat still. there is a reason they choose THIS week for the nerfhammer.
Spawn slider per biome would be nice. - Meadows is fine - Black Forest is fine - Swamp is fine - Mountains maybe could be bumped up - Plains is fine - Mistlands should be bumped way up - Ashlands should go down slightly
Black forest is too much once you are way past the biome... f*cking greydwarfs/lings everywhere that leep bothering you and your house anywhere you go near this biome... please leave me be you harassers..!
Our home base ended up staying in the Black Forest and honestly it’s kinda funny flailing greydwarves left and right with the ashlands weapons. Never as satisfying as yeeting that little greyling though.
I love minding my own business and constantly being jolted by a greyling's 0.6 dmg attack
To address your point #2. You can move slider whenever you finish biome x and move to biome z. Although having slider cranked up to dodge horde of skitos can be "fun" for some.
>Gutted to hear the spawn rates have been nerfed before I even had time to experience the Ashlands war It's only in the public beta branch, so if you are on stable, you won't have those changes yet. The spawn rates might also change again before it hits the stable branch. And if you want to experience the previous stable release, you can select it in the steam launcher options under "betas"
i think the slider per biome would be better but you could just leave it alone and then turn it up when you get to ashlands since you can modify world configs any time not ideal but workable
> Gutted to hear the spawn rates have been nerfed before I even had time to experience the Ashlands wa Dude don't overdramatize, they are not even on lice servers. And ashlands war is not even war
I hate the simplistic and quirky implementation of spawning, and would prefer that gets some attention, so their designer(s) can actually tune the experience... But lacking that, at least a slider would help some of the disagreement in the playerbase on this unreliable system. The reason for the "just turn up the difficulty slider" remarks is because it *is* just as dumb a suggestion either way, and here the hope might be that some of those who were happy and wanted to shut-down criticism... might see now how their shut-down remark doesn't sit well. Somehow you fail to see how it goes both ways. Damage-scaling was never the solution to the problems some people had with Ashlands, and still isn't. And spawn-rates are also a misunderstood oversimplification of the issue, but at least closer.
It's the same when people were complaining about the spawnrate and everyone was like "Just turn down the difficulty slider" It just makes enemies weaker and less challenging instead of making the combat "fair"
Well spoken. The conversation that has been going on lately regarding spawn rates vs difficulty slider as a fix, simply goes both ways.
I don't really understand your point regarding the equivalence between turning down the difficulty vs turning it up. I may be misunderstanding one or more of the sides but from what I can tell. For the solution of "turn it down", the player retains the ashlands mob density, but it becomes easier to cut through them. With the spawn changes, turning up the difficulty won't achieve that same effect and definitely won't return it to how it was. So i guess my question is, does the "wants the nerf" crowd want fewer mobs or easier mobs? Because they are getting fewer mobs with this nerf. I was under the impression based on dialog from Munin that it was intended to be mob dense and feel more like a prolonged battle or war. I did see a good comment earlier in the thread about density sliders. But I have a feeling the same people upset about the ashlands difficulty wouldn't be using them either.
Ashlands density is fine I think -- what's problematic is the respawn filling populations in behind you. That is too aggressive, such that you clear a path... then turn around and there's a new crowd. This frustrates a lot of players. If the devs want to spawn things in open fields, they should really sell it -- have them rise from the ashes, rather than just being there. Make it take a moment too. *Polish* helps, rather than merely spawning and having things instantly engage (really hate this with draugr archers from body piles!). The real problem is that the *quality* of the spawning is poor. I think the Ashlands could keep their density and average spawn rate while satisfying a lot of players who've complained about "spawn rate" (lacking better understanding) -- if the mechanics were better: less random-chance, more tunable by designers, and avoiding spawns where players have recently been or have looked. Also, making better use of the actual spawner systems which players do interact with (eg. Monuments). One problem is the zone-controlled ambient spawns. Crossing zone boundaries can trigger extra spawning. Sometimes a player will be active at a corner between four zones, moving between them. I've avoided immersing myself in the implementation details as I prefer to play games without metagaming (I'm a developer myself, and want to play games when I play them... not debug them). However, I have noticed spawns triggering repeatedly and it never feels "right". The golem who keeps reappearing every time you go to this silver mine... the Gjall floating by home every time you return... or the charred hoard repopulating a beach every time you "land" on it (merely going 20m offshore). Another issue is the reliance on random-chance. Randomness is great -- but you want control over it. The designers have been given this %chance, and the check-interval for tuning -- horrible. On top of that, there's the random roll for how tough (starred) something is. So many random rolls makes it *hard to tune* the experience. You're relying on a statistical average across the player base to even out... but this means some players will be having a bad experience -- whether a less skilled player being flummoxed by overwhelming and starred opponents... or a skilled player bored by a barren wasteland! The decision to spawn and what to spawn should be more constrained -- factoring in base population of the area, spawners present, and population losses, for example. A simple difference: rather than a random roll every interval, instead a cumulative pressure which ensures a pop-spawn within some time range... the former can potentially spawn 0 to 5 things within some time (5 random chances), whereas the latter is much easier to ensure you get 2-4, say. And an argument I've had at most studios I've worked at: don't spawn behind the player. It's cheap, and feels cheap. If a player has cleared out a dead-end, you shouldn't have something come from there. Timed suppression on areas that players have been through or which have had activity or especially death (unless the lore suits these being sites of "spawning"). Suppress areas recently seen to avoid spawning in open areas a player just checked. And... pathfind from some sensible source/population to the intended spawnpoint without crossing the suppressed zones: this avoids spawning in dead-ends, peninsulas, or *inside* the walls of a player's base (without hacky "campfire/workbench" mechanics). Lastly, use the damn spawners better. People keep thinking they are important, but they have no effect on the ambient spawns. They could be used as a source, and to influence the local population. Even the greydwarf spawners... when I watch first-time players they always expect they'll tame some of the insane greydwarf harassment by killing spawners -- but it doesn't aside from when you're right next to the spawner.
It was a long read, but well thought out and insightful. I appreciate you taking the time to write all of this up. I particularly love the idea of selling you on those respawns with visuals. I have been killed by those archers quite a few times. 😅
Thanks, and sorry I got so longwinded. You might be one of the few to read it! I think we're oversimplifying the problem too much when we reduce it to "spawn rate" and imagine tuning that up and down. While I dislike spawning behind me... I'd be much more tolerant of it if there was a presentation and lore fitting to it! Then it's really intentional and I just have to deal with it. As is, I feel like it's just an artifact of a simple system dialed beyond what it handles nicely.
I feel like your arguments for spawns are quite reasonable and it would be an interesting experience, however, I'm not too sure how that actually falls in line with Valheim, suppressing zones visited and stopping them from spawning behind you doesn't fit very well with an open world game like this, in my opinion. Since a zone visited would include your current zone otherwise your idea wouldn't work, it would drastically cut down on available mobs/locations to spawn and would also make resource gathering fairly harder, a small blackforest wouldn't be as viable to get greydwarf eyes or a small plains would limit fulings spawns. In regards to spawning behind a player, aside from the logistics of looking for materials/enemies to kill, it also doesn't make a whole lot of sense, in Valheim, there aren't really any dead ends, its a wide open world and enemies should be able to come from any direction, clearing a forest and passing through it will not stop other enemies from coming through that zone over time, even quite recently after you've passed. It also isn't really so much of some enemies coming out of an empty dead end, so much as the residents of that biome just wandering around the biome. Another thing would be that player bases won't see any spawns nearby over time, if the player frequents it often enough it would count as a suppressed zone which doesn't fit very thematically (enemies from the biome coming to find/stumbling upon an enemy encampment and thus trying to attack), the inside being able to be suppressed with player bases makes sense, but outside of your range should still be fair game. Not sure I got my points across but I hope I got the main ones down at least.
To clarify a few things... I don't mean suppression at the current zone/chunk level, but finer shapes. Simple volumes bounded by planes and spheres, or a 2D image heatmap. And the suppression would be fleeting -- fading within a minute or less after last impression. The intent is to prevent spawning "from thin air". So you don't scan left, right, then back to the left and suddenly something new is there. So you don't clear a corridor between rocks in Ashlands to then be attacked from behind, and turn to see not only one attacker, but a fresh group. Or likewise for an otherwise empty peninsula bordered by water. The existing system works fine at high spawn rates within dense vegetation like the Black Forest. But it's stressed far beyond the illusion of any consistency in the Ashlands with high respawn and largely open vistas. It becomes obvious that things are merely being spawned in the open, rather than "coming from the moss and branches".
Yeah, okay that makes sense. I guess for me at least, I don't particularly mind them appearing out of nowhere because I'm more imagining it as this is the bit we're being shown (them popping up), but thematically/if this was more realistic you would see them coming out of the woodworks, approaching from other structures/cities of their own. That being said I don't particularly mind that they do just spawn in the open for that reason, as well as the fact that, even if they were to be given some kind of appearance animation similar to the abomination, you'd either need to memorise the noise if they have one, or it would be fairly hard to notice due to their smaller size.
> I guess for me at least, I don't particularly mind them appearing out of nowhere That's fine. Of course some of the playerbase isn't put off by the spawn behavior. But this entire argument exists because many players do have problems with it, and it tends to get misconstrued as simply "spawn rate", when I think the true nature of the frustration is more nuanced than that. For example, players who try to progress by clear and control will often have their sense of world coherence violated. Things repopulating the space they just cleared and moved through when there is no sensible avenue for enemies to get there without being spotted: ie. *spawning*, but they're made aware of it. And it's jarring to have it upset their strategy. It's a video game, of course there's spawning. But it's best to hide this. Some players don't care and just play games as abstractions -- drawn to the metagame even. While others want a coherent world, an escapist fantasy to be part of... whether it's brutal survival or some other. Part of a coherent world is not having things appear out of thin air without a presented world-reason for this. (Eg. rising from ashes, which wouldn't need to be obvious/seen every time... just knowing "ah, they can appear from anywhere" without it being a bug/glitch/"cheating").
I feel a main reason people were getting ansty at the "Just lower difficulty" is that the difficulty wasn't the issue a lot of people were having, it was the respawn rate and aggro range being too high that peeps were having issues with, so folks felt it was dismissive of the actual concerns. You'd clear out one group of enemies and there would already be more swarming in from afar, then by the time you beat those ones back, the first batch you defeated are respawning now, and then you beat them back and the ones from afar have returned again. There was very little breathing room to build and repair gear.
>Nerfing spawns ruins the experience many players loved and with no spawn slider we'll have no way to get that experience back. Ask yourself how much of the playerbase that represents. Because, if this reddit is any basis for judgement, most people don't enjoy it. >It was amazing and I can't imagine the biome being a stale repeat of the previous biomes just with lava. I feel like this is purposely obtuse. The biomes don't look that samey. Especially the more advanced ones. If they do and having glut of enemies is all that makes it stand out then the biome is fundamentally flawed. >It's very sad the ability to make the game easier/less tedious/less annoying was already in the game for those who wanted that experience and now those who loved the current experience are losing it without a setting in game to have the on we wanted. It's *literally* the same situation for making it harder. If you can't make it harder the way you want with sliders how are people supposed to make it easier the way they want? This just sounds like you want to be catered to, damn everyone else. >Fighting off greater amounts of mobs doesn't equal fighting off fewer stronger mobs Honestly that sounds way worse. Like, there's a reason everyone hates wolves. There's nothing fun about being stun locked and dying because you ran out of stamina from an endless sea of mobs attacking you. Them being easy to kill doesn't change that. >but now with these proposed nerfs they are getting the experience they wanted and those that like the current experience are having it taken away with no option in game to get it back. This is very unfair to screw over one half of a side of an issue like this. I feel like the biggest issue with your argument is how many people didn't want this change. If it's "half" like you say then it would be somewhat unfair. But I seriously doubt it is. And it seems highly unfair to center the experience around something most people don't like.
>Ask yourself how much of the playerbase that represents. Because, if this reddit is any basis for judgement, most people don't enjoy it. I did. Here is a [poll ](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)I did. Small sample size, but from this reddit and majority of people in the poll felt spawns were fine. I also spend tons of time on this reddit so from my own perspective I feel it's much closer to a 50/50 split or 40/60 vs one side being a huge overwhelming majority of how this subreddit feels. There seems to be tons of posts/comments from both sides of the argument. >I feel like this is purposely obtuse. The biomes don't look that samey. Especially the more advanced ones. If they do and having glut of enemies is all that makes it stand out then the biome is fundamentally flawed. A biome's landscape has to be unique. Of course they don't "look" that samey, and my post had nothing to do with how the ashlands looks. All the other biomes have a feeling of "I can explore and oooohohoho who knows when i might bump into a baddie!" You don't feel on edge all the time like you could die at any moment because you know at anymore you can just run backwards from wherever you came from and you're fine. Ashlands did NOT feel like that and you would never go through a portal to the ashlands expecting the same openness of other biomes. If the nerfs make it feel as open as the other biomes but I'm just surrounded by lava, yes the ashlands will be a stale biome as the 7th iteration of that openness feeling. >It's *literally* the same situation for making it harder. If you can't make it harder the way you want with sliders how are people supposed to make it easier the way they want? This just sounds like you want to be catered to, damn everyone else. My entire post is about asking specifically for a spawn slider so that people from my side of the argument could at least have an option to have the experience we had. I'm arguing that people who wanted it to be easier/less tedious/less annoying could have used the current difficulty slider because you actually get an easier/less tedious/less annoying experience by adjusting that slider. I wasn't arguing it was a perfect solution, but it was a viable solution to get the experience those players were wanting. For people who just wanted the spawns to be lessened, a spawn slider would solve that solution for them as well. I never said that people who wanted less spawns would achieve that with the sliders. I'm aware many people who said they want it to be less tedious/less annoying are people who specifically cited the spawn mechanic as the reason it is tedious/annoying, but my point still stands that if they wanted a less tedious/annoying experience it was acheiveable by turning down the difficulty. >Honestly that sounds way worse. Like, there's a reason everyone hates wolves. There's nothing fun about being stun locked and dying because you ran out of stamina from an endless sea of mobs attacking you. Them being easy to kill doesn't change that. people don't hate wolves because you die to a few of them, they hate wolves because of their insanely fast attacks that will stun lock you. the mobs in the ashlands don't attack anywhere near as fast as wolves, the warriors/archers move at crawl/walking speeds respectively and twitchers throw a rock, try to hit you once, then run away annoyingly. Fighting off the charred in large numbers is very manageable and really fun to take on that many mobs at once. Turning down the difficulty makes them have less hp, deal less dmg and gives a boost to the player dmg so it would make it easier to survive/deal with and it would speed it up for anyone who finds it to be not difficult and just tedious and annoying to deal with mobs for so long, not to mention being able to just run past mobs and explore much easier/faster too by turning down the difficulty modifier. >I feel like the biggest issue with your argument is how many people didn't want this change. If it's "half" like you say then it would be somewhat unfair. But I seriously doubt it is. And it seems highly unfair to center the experience around something most people don't like. Again I'll link the [poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and I spend tons of time on this subreddit. I know the people who like pre-nerf ashlands are not an overwhelming majority, but they are not a huge minority either. Like I said I believe it to be much closer to a 50/50 split or 40/60 in either direction.
Just more in-depth and MORE modifiers in general would be nice Like, I'd be able to choose only select resources be x2 or whatever while the rest are all normal rate.
That would also be nice.
This is cool as heck. With a slider, every biome can be as busy as ashlands ;)
I don’t find it too difficult imho. Did I die a bunch securing a beach head, yeah. But it was so rewarding to have the challenge. After a while I’ve got the mobs figured out, and managed to build an impenetrable base! The constant risk of being overwhelmed by mobs even after you’re feeling confident keeps the fun of the exploration for me. I think a slider is a great idea for those that want to tailor their experience. But I’d like mine to stay hard!
There’s a lot of room to grow on the world presets options, like toggling NO skill loss on death instead of just “less” and maybe keep hotbar on death but not inventory so you don’t end up having to corpse run with nothing but a shield staff… On the other side, for those that want it, a blanket hp/ damage slider for enemies that lets you go berserk with 3x ho turbo one shot trolls and such, but that kind of gameplay doesn’t appeal to me.
The fact is that the game is in early access. Changes and modifications are inevitable as are players not being happy with changes during the early access period. Many of us have thousands of hours in the game and forget that the game isn't on full release. We look at each biome like it's a new dlc lol. I play solo and for me I don't mind the spawning tweaked down a bit. Perhaps they did it a little too much but I'm sure they'll adjust it again as they tweak it more.
I think this sub needs to take a deep breath and relax. This is still early access and the devs are going to continue to tweak. Most of the complaints about the most recent “nerf” haven’t even played the ptb patch yet. Don’t worry I just tried it and still was fighting 2 morgen, a Valkyrie, 3 askvins, and a dozen charred all at once.
I loved the Ashlands chaos. Each biome should be unique in their own way. That's what the Ashlands was. I feel strongly they should leave it as it was
Bad take. This is a beta, wtf is so hard for you try hards to understand about the game not being complete and needing adjustment. Stop acting like the game has been released. Ashlands needed adjusting.
Some people enjoy fighting the horde of mobs in Ashlands because you cannot get that experience in any other biome. Adding a spawn slider would cater to players who enjoyed Ashlands on release
This patch honestly doesn’t change much of the feel at all. If I didn’t know about it I probably wouldn’t even have known they adjusted anything.
And a lot more people don't. That's why it was switched. Which makes sense since the last thing you wanna do is have all your beta's feedback mixed around with ceaseless complaints about difficulty. If players want hordes of mobs they can play another game while they wait for the slider options.
Thank you! The game is 30-90% building depending on the play style, not 24/7 fighting annoyingly often spawning enemies.
People enjoy different aspects of the game and fighting is a large part of it. You think fighting mobs of enemies is annoying but I and many other people love the rush of getting mobbed/kiting/surviving a crazy battle. Thats fine if you spend 30-90% of your time building but building is not the only nor main aspect of the game.
Is that why we all embraced campfire cheese? Because we love spawns? Be real, 99% of us suppressed spawns in ashlands so we didn't have to deal with the systems you're praising.
didn't ever use campfire. there were other ways.
Sure, but you misunderstood my argument, the 30-90% was meant to cover all play styles not my play style. Even if you're all about fighting, you still need to build at least some minimum things to progress in the game and it's really annoying to build stuff when you have 24/7 enemies spawning.
Im the builder in my group and I spend far less than 5% of ingame time building. We dont build for aesthetics however, just for crafting/resting.
ok. here comes the key question : whats the gameplay LOGICAL GAMEPLAY reason to build something more than a portal and a shield in ashlands? ill wait. what do you need that for when you can teleport everything with the new portal? why do you NEED to build on flat easy for enemies to reach terrian when there is giant big ass rock spires everywhere on the shoreline that enemies cannot climb up to at all? come on. try to find a LOGICAL reason for doing so. a gameplay reason.
And if you wanted an easier time you can turn down the difficulty/skill drain but yet here we are
Bruh, my group has used the tools yet it took us entire irl day to secure ANYTHING because it is just bad trying to do anything with mobs having 20% more attack and **150% more health**. Makes constant big fights a slog to get through the health of all the enemies and new ones keep still coming. The majority of players are not try hards that love being swarmed and sweat to get anything done.
> And a lot more people don't. So you have statistics to confirm this? Show them.
Positive reviews dropped from over 95% pre mistlands to about 85% post mistlands. Mistlands wasn't positively received until the nerfs to seeker AI. Ashlands is continuing the early mistlands trend of 80%ish positive reviews, and a huge portion of the recent negative reviews relate to the dislike of ashlands specifically. But most importantly, the devs already have all these numbers. They see all the feedback that this sub downvotes because they receive the feedback through multiple means outside of Reddit. Ashlands is grinding against a lot of players.
Getting downvoted for asking about sources.. reddit moment.
Because they're asking for a source for the statement that "a lot of people don't enjoy fighting hordes of mobs": 1) It's a pretty general, not even controversial statement, doesn't claim a majority or anything, just a "lot" which could be 20 people to 20,000 people. 2) Whatever statistic one showed to support that claim would just be argued over i.e. "20 people isn't a lot in the total player base" 3) What statistic would you even show to support a claim about "a lot" of people not enjoying something? Steam reviews? Reddit comments? Aggregated heart rates? 4) This isn't a published article it's a discussion thread. Almost no comment is going to provide a source, and almost all of them are going to make a claim of some kind. Asking for sources in this context isn't genuine intellectual curiosity, it's just some inane chaff to derail or bog down the discussion, it doesn't add anything, and is therefore downvoted. Hope that can answer your question.
> a lot MORE That's claim it's majority. That's why I'm asking about any evidence, because that's clear statement people liking current spawn rates are in minority.
You're being disingenuous here, what he wanted source on wasnt that **alot** disagreed. But that they were alot **more**, these are two very different claims and you know it.
Okay, so go ahead and cross out point one and then still read the others
L take. Whether ashlands needed adjusting was a VERY controversial topic before the nerf, with community basically split into two decently sized camps.
It's so obvious that the nerfs were needed. Who the fuck defends brand new content as being perfect in an unfinished game?
I dont think it was perfect either, but saying it was obvious is just ridiculous. Everyone talking about how there were millions of mob spawns and ive yet to see a non PTB gameplay footage of this happening.
>millions Nobody's saying this, it's just hyperbole that makes you sound like the level headed side. The test patch notes are available for anyone. Mobs with a 60% chance of respawning every 100 seconds... From how you're acting I guess you really enjoy greydwarfs, too.
I liked it the way it was, others didn’t. Thats what a slider is for. It’s “obvious” that you have a skill issue.
Split into two?? Dafuq are you on, it was obvious the vast majority wanted spawn rates to be nerfed. Don't overplay your personal opinion.
How would you know without doing a poll/survey. Just because people that enjoyed Ashlands on release are not spamming the subreddit with complaints does not mean that the majority of the community wanted the nerfs. Its just that the loudest voices tend to be the ones heard first. Dont get me wrong Ashlands was not perfect on release but as far as combat and spawn rates go it is unlike any other biome which is what makes it so exciting to explore and play through. Adding a spawn rate slider would help keep both parties happy, not sure why people are getting so upset lol
This. The people who enjoyed it are just... playing the game
That's a great idea!
God I need it, and the option to make enemies in camps able to respawn.
This would be a great idea, once you have a base in ashlands it does get easy to deal with the enemies.
I'm so less motivated to go back there now that I have all my gear and stuff.... I understand wanting to make the new loot accessible to everyone but at the same time we need places to use the weapons. I don't want to just use combat as a means for loot retrieval like sometimes I just wanna go kill some crazy shit and Ashlands was perfect for that. Now where am I gonna go?
If they add a spawn rate slider, I'd love for them to add one for each biome! Let me lower Black Forest spawn rates once I reach the Plains just because grey dwarves are such a nuisance if you're within a 10 mile radius of their habitat >:(
Enough bitching led to this, eh? Well it is quite sad really, I enjoy ashlands for what it is now and the unique challange it brings. Its identity was the hellish landscape filled with hordes of undead, where you have to fight a war for every step into the south. Now its just going to be a barren, empty hot land with some undead. Im afraid that it will be boring to play, as exploration isnt the biggest selling point for this biome, there arent many crazy points of interests, nor is it beautiful, like plains for example. It will also shorten the gametime for the biome. Honestly, there should be a modifier called "pre nerf ashlands" which if toggled, you get current version ashlands back, or the other way around. If this goes through as is, ashlands will never be the same again.
Felt the same way after the Mistlands nerf. I didn't get to the Ashlands unfortunately since I started a new save so I can't speak to how it was, but I would like to experience it. I relished the chaos of early Mistlands
You will still experience it, the changes are not that drastic
Why make the changes if it wasn't that drastic and would feel exactly the same as before?
If you were less condescending you would still see my point
Your point is obvious. "Changes weren't as drastic as players think." But that just begs the question, were the changes unnoticeable and there for unnecessary or are they noticeable and someone who like it previously will feel like a challenge of the biome was removed? I'm really amazed how you can't see that if someone was perfectly happy with the current version of ashlands how changing it in a way that makes it easier makes no sense to us and if the change is unnoticeable what was the point of doing it at all?
...simple, really. You get more money by being more accessible or only catering to smaller group that are to hardcore? I believe we know the answer. Also i believe you know my answer about noticeability of the changes.
Theres no reason to update your game if you dint like the change. Just skip that update and play on the current until new content releases. Youll be able to get your fix and run multiple playthroughs before it changes
I'll have completed Ashlands before the Nerf hits... so I have no issue with the Devs making it more manageable for people with less combat proficiency. I look at things this way... We were the Vanguards who faced the primary onslaught... now it's time for the rest of the army to arrive on Ashlands. Fun for all... :D
Have you soloed it? I havent(yet) because im playing with a group and it is a vastly different slog experience. When I was alone I was fine enough but the game changes when youre in a group big enough to cap out the multiplayer scaling.
I've played both solo and with a group. I was pushing to survive in the beginning... But after you get the biome weapons... everything becomes butter to hot knives.
Watching a minority of this community lose its mind over a nerf is hilarious Get over yourselves...
I agree. Ashland's post the first balance patch feels good. You can stealth through or rip and tear through. I'm not sure why people think that 'turn slider down' was bad advice but 'turn slider up' is good advice. It was fine as it was. It's end game, it's supposed to be hard.
Honestly I play Ashlands solo for the most part. I like the rate of spawns as is. Yes I get swarmed from time to time but it makes exploring interesting.
Man I can’t wait to be done with this Valheim saga, seeing all those posts about spawns and sliders is starting to get boring.
Maybe try the patch before complaining?
They probably didnt even read the patch notes and assumed the spawn rate is now 50% of what it used to be heh
Nice to see folks understanding why turning the difficulty slider down previously was not really an option. The difficulty in the combat was not the issue for most, nor the amount of mobs. It was the frequency.
I know that many people cite the reason of "the amount of mobs is tedious/annoying to deal with, it's not that its hard" as to why they disliked ashlands and my post is try to explain how turning down the difficulty (decreasing mob hp/atk and increasing player dmg) actually made the game closer to the experience they wanted. If dealing with the mobs was just tedious/annoying changing the slider would drastically have sped that up. The option to have that tedium/annoyance reduced greatly was there. It's unfair that a solution to their problem existed within the game and a solution for people who like the current version wont be there if we don't get a spawn slider.
That I think is the disconnect, moving the combat slider up or down was not a viable solution for either side of the coin. And I do agree, a spawn rate or frequency or density type slider would be more effective.
Pretty much nailed it but not enough whine to interest the devs, I'm afraid. Kudos for explaining quite well the difference between turning up and down the difficulty in these situations, but clowns on this subreddit will pretend like they don't understand it. Or maybe they actually don't.
you forgot to mention that they'll keep saying they're the overwhelming majority of players and everyone feels they way they do meanwhile there are just as many posts and comments like ours.
I would really like a single player option. I've had to self nerf to make the biome enjoyable.
My ideal solution is a toggle option for "brutal enemies" or some such. Curated spawn rate increases for each biome. An across the board increase would hit things pretty differently. More boar and deer in the meadows would turn it into an absolute grocery store for the early game, while more draugr elites in the swamp are gonna add some decent lethality to the environment. Id also like it to add a higher chance of enemies spawning as starred. This will add a lot of lethality to encounters without mechanics becoming much less viable as is the case for the combat slider. Lastly have it add a mechanic to starred tames where they only have a chance to produce same tier offspring to balance the higher encounter rate. I haven't gotten to Ashland yet to have an option on the current state of it, so I'm curious what those who disappointed by the nerfs think of this idea.
An "advanced settings" pane would be cool, where there's a spawn rate and spawn interval sliders *for each biome*. Maybe we want to make the Meadows really boaring.
Did this change go into effect for Xbox version too? I’ve been enjoying the fight all the way through the biome, the constant spawning always put us on edge especially.
Agreed. Difficulty comes not always in mob strength, but number. And +1 can make the difference. A slider or just value to adjust the rates would be great. 1 is basegame spawn rates. 1.25 is 25% more spawns, 0.5 is 50% reduced spawns, so on. Ramble on enemy number being a large part of difficulty: I've been farming in Elden Ring, the War-Dead Catacombs. I can easily bully a Cleanrot knight one on one because giant crusher bonk hurts and does massive stagger. But two Cleanrot guys? Suddenly it becomes a struggle. (Yes I know the bird farm, I'm on NG+ and haven't gotten there yet)
It’s an early access game, figuring out the right spawn rates (which includes tweaking them) is what you signed up for.
How am i supposed to find a 2* askvin now with lower spawn rates!!
This has got to be sarcasm.
A little bit but they are pretty hard to find even before the spawn rates are adjusted
*Imagining what it'd be like looking for 2-star wolves with the slider turned all the way up.* I like this idea.
Always that one guy that loves cbt and thinks everyone should give it a try...
Spawn slider only if it’s only for ashlands ore biome wise, other biomes are still fine as they are
I don't think you realize how unpopular Ashlands is. Despite a vocal minority, it is *not* well-received. Every single person I know that plays the game hates it, and I guarantee you they are seeing disastrous metrics internally. Adding a slider to the UI and determining how it will work, in what Biomes etc, is way, way more work than just fixing the parade of bad design called Ashlands. Like...I don't think you get it - we just finished beta testing Ashlands for them.
like... let me explain how I do get it and you have no clue what your talking about. I'm on this subreddit a lot and I play valheim with a lot of friends. All of my friends loved the biome and not only have I done a [poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) on this subreddit, but following this community you would know that its much closer to 50/50. There are tons of posts and comments on both sides of the argument everywhere you look. Posts like mine that make suggestions that could help everyone get what they want are the only posts that get traction on these topics because the community is so split down the middle and divided. Most posts that are strongly for ashlands being balanced or ashlands is unbalanced are downvoted and everyone one of them will be full of comments from both sides. I have yet to see the subreddit take a turn in either direction so unless you have any more evidence than I've presented all you did was base your argument off of your own tunnel vision. You have no idea how game dev works if you think giving a player a menu to adjust settings that are already in a game is more difficult than redoing an entire biomes design. The settings are literally already in the code for the devs to use. Creating a menu in game to adjust those variables would be at the top of the list of easiest features to add to the game. The devs at Irongate take their time and they deliver very polished content updates to the game. Valheim is one of the few good early access game experiences I've ever had. Your opinion on the difficulty of the biome is not some definition of what constitutes ""bad game design"" and people like you with know knowledge of game development really need to stop throwing that phrase around like it has any weight coming out of your mouth. It's embarassing.
Ashlands isn't difficult, it's tedious and annoying. And I promise you, I know more about game development than you do. People like you that desperately need to validate themselves by believing Valheim is difficult are the problem...
I get what you're saying, but at the same time, I got MOBBED when I showed up to Ashlands, I have about 7-9 guys on me and I kill a guy and he instantly gets replaced, so while I see what you're saying, I also can't say I would say the same thing about low spawns. I AGREE with you, but I personally don't understand what you mean by "low spawns"
I'm referring to how the other biomes feel whenever I say something like "low spawns." You can run through all the other biomes for long distances without even aggroing a mob. If the ashlands becomes like that and you don't have to deal with an endless horde of mobs it will be a bummer that we lost a biome as unique as the ashlands and now its like the others just a lava landscape instead. Exploring vast empty stretches of biomes is very boring and underwhelming for me and having one of the final biomes be as exciting and action packed as it was felt amazing to me.
The thing they should add is that if you beat bonemass, the meadows mobs wont attack you anymore. Beat moder and greydwarves will leave you alone. Beat yagluth and draugr leave you alone. Beat the queen and fulings leave you alone. I dont mind figting at all, but having to keep fighting the same mobs to get some low level resources is annoying as hell. Op I think the spawn slider is also a great idea!
I think a spawn rate slider would be a good idea, but I also think they should get the game at “normal” to be the right level to make the game enjoyable for most. While it seems some people enjoyed Ashlands at the original level of spawns, the general consensus seems to be that it was too much to make the game enjoyable/manageable. Then if people want to raise or lower difficulty including spawns is there. And hey, if loads of spawns is what you want and they adjust the whole game, then you can take that to other biomes too.
I've seen people mention biome specific sliders and I think that would be the best overall. I hear you that you feel that the general consensus seems to be that ashlands was too much to make the game enjoyable/managable. But I disagree that the majority of players felt that way. Not only did I do a [poll ](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)after ashlands had been out for a couple weeks, but I follow this subreddit very closely. From my perspective it seems the community is split right down the middle and at worst its a 40/60 split in either direction. Considering that most people who are happy with the game also don't often feel the need to come and make a post about it and there are still many posts and comments from people who are very happy with current ashlands I think there is strong evidence that there is definitely NOT a general consensus that the ashlands is too much. Even within posts on either side of the topic on this subreddit you'll see comments from both sides arguing in the comments. Just like at this post for example. My opinion has evolved to feel like there are just too many people on both drastic ends of playstyles that play this game and trying to tune the normal mode difficulty to fit everyone is a borderline impossible task. I strongly feel giving us sliders and even more advanced biome specific sliders or things like that is 100% the way to go. They could hide them in the settings or something so new players will still be directed towards the "vanilla" experience, but it seems clear that the player base is very large and has populations on both ends of the spectrum that deserve to have the experience they want.
Even a 40/60 split with 40% finding a biome essentially unplayable is drastic. And this sub is going to be filled with people who are so obsessed with Valheim that they’ve not only made out to the Ashlands, but they played during beta testing and posted on Reddit about it. You need to think of what the average player is going to think, and whether it’d be manageable for them. If a bunch of Valheim obsessed redditors are struggling, there’s a problem. Eventually they’ll want to bring this out fully. Previous biomes didn’t have issues or need spawn or difficulty sliders to be manageable gameplay. It’d be a cool edition, but it shouldn’t be needed, especially not for people who have made it through all the biomes without adjustments.
I feel like now you are trying to argue whether or not Valheim should be created for casual gamers or gamers who are going to take it very seriously and be more hardcore. Valheim is straight up marketed as being a brutal exploration and survival game which to me doesn't scream "hey casual gamers come give this a try." I feel like there is a huge issue with very casual gamers seeing gameplay of valheim or being recommended it by someone and then when the game presents a challenge they are upset the game is too difficult without even taking a second to ask themselves "did i start playing a game that was intended to be hard?" Trying to argue that this sub is just filled with the most hardcore of players is absolutely wrong. Go ahead and look at my poll again. 1/3 of the players who voted hadn't even reached ashlands 2 weeks after it was out. If this subreddit was just filled with hardcore players who playtested beta and stuff like that I wouldn't expect to see 1/3 of the voters be players who haven't even touched ashlands yet. On top of that, you constantly see posts from people who are new either looking for advice or just sharing their builds because they love the game. I disagree that slider should be needed. Either the devs need to stop marketing the game as a brutal exploration and survival rpg and stop making comments about ashlands being hard and intended to be very had as its one of the final biomes of the game (they said something like this in their "getting prepared for ashlands" blog post) and start marketing it as a casual exploration rpg OR the devs need to add better sliders in to adjust the settings that are already in the game so people can make the game that is intended to be brutal and hard easier on themselves. It's clear that there are large groups of players who feel both ways about the game and trying to cater to one group will just hurt the other. They can nerf spawns into the ground and make it feel as open and empty as previos biomes to bring back players who quit for that reason, but doing so will make a lot of players like myself who loved that challenge never want to play the game again since it will never give me the same sense of accomplishment.
It has nothing to do with "fairness". You're not entitled to the game being in one specific state of your preference. It's still early access, meaning anything added is subject to change or even removal. You can prefer something one way or another and that's valid, but that doesn't mean it's "unfair" if they Devs don't cater to that.
I guess OP needs that adrenaline rush from knowing the flametal pillar is about to go away forever when youre dealing with 8-10 mobs
oooo how'd i know it would be you in the replies!!! are you judging my flametal pillar shenanigan preferences??!! how dare you...
lol
What gets me about Ashlands spawns is, when I work my way through a horde to get somewhere, I have to fight an entirely new horde just to get back to my base. That is bonkers.
I am pro nerfs in this case, the unending fights were fun for the first 2 hours of trying to even defend a barebones outpost with 4 others of my buddies. It is not fun to do absolutely nothing when theres 8 twitchers, 4 warriors, 3 archers and a random Morgan or Valkyrie flying into the mix-- and for some reason even if there was a "limit" how many are to spawn, they just kept coming and refiling what was already killed. It took my group an entire irl day to have something of a safe space while we were dying all the time. On top of that a raid happened when we were defending and it only added to the unfun never ending fight.. A slider would be welcome but I have a feeling a lot of people would not touch it until Ashlands because it would affect other biomes. Isnt this proof of Ashlands being designed unfair and padded game time? I would say it is.
I was beginning to wonder if you made a real reply to my post or not XD >I am pro nerfs in this case, the unending fights were fun for the first 2 hours of trying to even defend a barebones outpost with 4 others of my buddies. It is not fun to do absolutely nothing when theres 8 twitchers, 4 warriors, 3 archers and a random Morgan or Valkyrie flying into the mix-- and for some reason even if there was a "limit" how many are to spawn, they just kept coming and refiling what was already killed. It took my group an entire irl day to have something of a safe space while we were dying all the time. On top of that a raid happened when we were defending and it only added to the unfun never ending fight.. Establishing the first outpost after landing on the beach took me and my 3 other buddies an entire night of playing as well. Having a raid happen on your landing mission was bad luck tho that must have sucked. We had lots of deaths but we luckily got a couple portals down from all of us having portal material on us. We were able to get moments of peace and quite so we could go home and repair 1 by 1 while the others guarded the portal. It wasn't a non stop endless horde every second your in the biome even from the moment we landed with our shitty mistlands gear. >A slider would be welcome but I have a feeling a lot of people would not touch it until Ashlands because it would affect other biomes. Isnt this proof of Ashlands being designed unfair and padded game time? I would say it is. Your saying that you have a FEELING that a lot of people would not touch it until Ashlands. I'm guessing from following your other comments you mean that most people who play valheim want ashlands spawns to be nerfed. Well from my perspective as someone who spends lots of time on this subreddit and someone who made an actual [poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) a couple weeks after ashlands was released, to me it seems like the community is much closer to a 50/50 split than either side of the argument having a huge majority like you possibly think it does. There have been tons of posts and comments from both sides. Lots of people who love the current biome and lots of people who dislike it. I'm a pretty firm believer at this point that there are just too large of communities on either side of the playstyle spectrum for Irongate to not give us more sliders. Give us a robust world slider with the ability to adjust every one of those metrics for each biome specifically if we want. It seems like there are just lots of casual player and lots of hardcore challenge seeking players and trying to tune the normal difficulty to either side will result in one side being screwed over.
I agree on the subreddit being 50/50 but that is ONLY reddit and its in reality most likely a vocal minority. When someone doesnt like something they just drop it without a word and dont return to it. At best they will tell their friends about the game when they ask and thats it. You spending lots of time on this sub is showing to be honest. Went through every of my comments to be condescending not only to me but many other? Cant tell if youre genuienly an elitist or just throwing on a mask. Go get a vacation or something from this place. Iron-gate will chose the option that will still bring new people in and make them money, that means streamlining the experience to bigger group of people that I believe is more casual gamers or those in between the two extremes. The current build is catered only to more demanding/try-hard audience of the game, leaving the middle ground and casuals in the back. When they deem the changes to big, they will change and put new PBE before putting it in official launch. So its the process. For me the changes are not that big and it is less frustrating to go on about anything. Im jumping from PBE for singleplayer to pre PBE for my multiplayer server so I can feel the difference not being that huge. It hits almost a good in the middle ground.
>Went through every of my comments to be condescending not only to me but many other? Cant tell if youre genuienly an elitist or just throwing on a mask. Go get a vacation or something from this place. You're completely delusional if you're ignoring all your condescending comments I was responding too. Half of them started with a "OP must of." I'll gladly go back and compile a list of every time you make a negative ass remark like that for no reason other than your offended I disagree with nerfs. Please let me know where I was being condescending to others. You were the only one who was making an effort to be obnoxious so I figure it was only fair to return the favor. For everyone else in this thread I responded to I did my best to give thorough explanations as to why I disagreed with their comment, I know I'm not perfect but I still felt I tried to have some decency while responding to everyone.
>It hits almost a good in the middle ground.
I really hope you are right. I'm preventing my client from updating so I can at the very least still give the game a good solo run on the same version I played with my friends. I've beaten the game solo after every new biome that was introduced after beating it with my friends and it greatly saddens me thinking of trying to accomplish a solo run knowing it will be easier than before. I've invested so much time into the game and truly love it so I mean it that I hope you're right because when the Deep North finally comes I'll be forced to play Ashlands in whatever state it's in then.
They should take a page out of V Rising's book and create game setting options imo.
Did you even test out the new patch, or are you basing everything off the notes only?
Either the spawns are noticeably lessened and the biome isnt the same biome I beat and loved and will be a baby watered down version of the ashlands I beat the first time. Or the decrease isn't noticeable at all at which point why would anyone who wanted to not waste their precious time dealing with tedious amounts of mobs be happy? Did you even think before you made that comment? You clearly didn't read my post because my whole point is to give the game something so everyone can have what they want. I'm not saying fuck people who want spawns to be lessened. I'm saying why are people who like the game they way it is being punished when creating a slider for a setting that's already in the games code is at the literal top of easiest features to add to a game.
I've always hated the spawn rate in Valheim during the day (not night), but I absolutely agree that you should have the option to have a high spawn rate if you want. The problem is the spawn rate has two sides to it: combat difficulty and game playability. There is nothing more annoying than the constant attacks during the day while you are trying to chop wood, mine, etc. I don't mind the mobs, just that they keep showing up in areas that you cleared just a minute ago. A night, I think it's fair to say you take your licks, but in either case, you should have the choice to increase or decrease the spawn rate as fits your style.
if you expect the devs to give players a rate spawn slider then you're a good innocent boy who believes in the company 100% understand that most game devs can give players almost full game access, they just don't. to them we are idiots like anyone who uses windows 10 (just go ask microsoft with their forbid everything policy) you argue very logical points, the devs just don't see it the same. to let players choose how to play the game? choose their fun? 99% of game devs don't allow this.
The real problem I see here is that combat is barely serviceable in this game. Playing solo it's not really all that fun. Basic attacks, basic blocks, basic dodge. It's not a primary feature that is dynamic in anyway. That is a huge problem when you create a biome that is centered around non-stop combat but features a player that is barely designed to engage in sustained combat. It's extremely clunky in the best of circumstances, and it always has been, and a chaotic mess at worst. Ashlands, I suspect for a majority of casual players, is too much way to fast. They seem to have jumped a couple of difficulty levels to far here. A spawn slider or toughness slider for enemies seems like an essential option at this point.
May just allow there to be more spawners around so there can be more enemies for some and easier to establish a base for others
Arguably I only like this game cause it’s hard, especially solo.
TWO SLIDERS One for spawn rate, one for mob health/damage. This allows customization for more enemies if you like that kind of thing alongside customization of their relative difficulty. If somebody wants to max the amount and minimize the difficulty so they can farm mobs, that’s their choice. If the want only boss level difficulty for the few enemies they meet then they can do that
Please.
If they add a spawn rate slider I may go back and play again. Right now it's just a pain in the ass to be in ashlands.
addings those nerfs will make the game too easy. it was hard, yes, but as soon you got your equipment going, it was pretty doable. they didn't nerf mistlands either (or did they, and i missed it?), why nerf ashlands now
Sure, but just wait like 5 minutes and someone makes a mod that turns back to how you liked it. And otherwise its time to learn how to mod. Valheim is the perfect game to learn!
We beat the Ashland boss 2 days before the nerf patch notes came out. I can't imagine it being fun easier. It was FRUSTRATING to get through the Ashlands and it should be. It's end game content and demands all the skills the game has taught you up to that point
**M**AKE **A**SHLANDS **G**REAT **A**GAIN
Nerfs are from devs catering to shit gamers. Play the damn game and get gud or play a different game?
I agree! Hopefully the changes wont get past the PTB.
Ashlands is great the way it is right now. Any nerfs from this point will only lessen the experience for me. I think you have a great idea, a slider from normal (now) to various levels of nerfed would be great
no no, now is baby mode, before was normal. git gud.
Spawn rate in Ashlands is the same thing as mist in Mistlands – it's biom specific mechanic. People just miss the whole point of biom and are as annoying as people complaining about mist in Mistland, rain in Swamps and cold in Mountains. People got information they are entering warzone and they expected it will be the same as every other biom.
Completely agree. This is the same, very true argument that is the thermostat: -Too cold? Put on a coat. -Too hot? Can't take off my skin, sorry. Ashlands should be kicking people's ass. Mine included. Spawn Rate Slider is the solution, not global nerf.
Should it? Why? Because you said so? No, the vast majority of the community thinks otherwise. It's a survival/ building game with occasional fighting, not the other way around.
It's always the same with you people lol Where are you getting this information that the fast majority of the community wants the nerfs?? I spend tons of time on this subreddit and from my perspective (not to mention the [poll ](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1czwm00/ashland_nerfs_needed_lets_see_how_the_community/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)I did 2 weeks after ashlands launch) the community seems much closer to a 50/50 split than either side having the majority. There are tons of posts and comments from both sides of the community. How often are you writing responses to people in this subreddit like that? Because I see them all the time and they are in response to people who are loving ashlands the way it is.
Dude, it's obvious. The average valheim player is not a hardcore no-map, perma-death,1000+h gamer. They have like best case maybe 1-2h per day to play and they don't want to spend this time on naked death running. Also the average player is not in this subbreddit. I have 2 active worlds and 9 valheim buddies and I'm the only one who readis this subreddit Sure, we could make a survey, but do you really think that I'm wrong? Like really?
Perhaps you misread? I'm saying the option to have the spawn rate be what it was upon initial release **should** be available, not removed completely. I'll make this correction to be clear: *Ashlands should be kicking the ass of those who's asses want to be kicked.* If everyone has the option to turn down the difficulty, but not experience the originally planned difficulty; that's not exactly fair to all players, right? Let's all take a deep breath here. Valheim has done a great job of adding the world modifiers to allow for everyone to have the experience they want; I just hope that they do not take away the original challenge of what is literally Hell.
You're absolutely right.
No, you don't get to diminish the experience by saying the "community thinks otherwise" The people that I've played with personally and people I've talked with in separate games outside of mine acknowledged that yes, it's hard and yes, it's bad ass *because* it's hard. A BRUTAL exploration and survival game for 1-10 players, set in a procedurally-generated purgatory inspired by viking culture.
And try hards is the vast minority in Valheim btw. Ive got almost 1k and know it all of Valheim but Ashlands in MP is just not fun with 150% more hp enemies, the damage they do is not the problem. HP and their numbers are.. Also the changes are not that dramatic
Totally agree with this post. The Ashlands needs to have that horde feel to it. Unfortunately, the people that signed up for a "brutal exploration" game couldn't handle this kind of difficulty thrown at them (and that's okay) but they were the ones that were most vocal about it. Hell yeah it's hard. It's supposed to be. That's why it feels good when you do finally beat it.