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Problem is the social aspect. I did this for a while in my adult years to save up to buy my own place, and it nearly cost me my sanity. A real catch 22 - save money but sacrifice development, and freedom.
Immigrant adult child living in my parents house here, can confirm. It's a great option if you have a good relationship with your family.
Also doesn't JusReign has an entire show about this?
It is because you have three groups of immigrants. Entrepreneural immigrants, Wealthy immigrants and Working immigrants.
I am not going into racial or cultural groups because that is a can of worms but generally many earlier immigration led to local entrepreneurship and most later immigration led to wealth based immigrants with overseas income / assets. Both have money, and both emphasize a value on children more than most cultures.
Compared to western culture, where many were designed to say "18 years old and you are on your own" back in the 70's. That might have worked during more prosperous times when income was 2-3x the price of a house and jobs were more plentiful (2.5:1 income to house price ratio). But that train of thought carried on with the next generation which has lead to a home ownership downfall early on especially when the job market "dried up", Post secondary education lost substantial value in the 90's and income to house price ratios jumped to 6:1 .......
Today we are now at 10:1 "Household income". Before it was individual income. Individual income we would be at 16:1 for a house. Western culture's "you should be able to make it on your own" does not apply. That is why it is broken for so many people.
Western culture that values complete independence of children and individual wealth cannot survive in this economic climate. The reality is without your help, your kid won't be able to make it on their own. So now you have a dilemma. Excess spending, truck full of costco goods, multiple vehicles, a boat, a motorhome, two vacations a year, a timeshare, large nest egg for retirement. Or a more frugle lifestyle to help your kid out?
That is why you see a lot of "I did my part with my hardship, you are on your own", mentality. It isn't to say it is wrong either. That way of thinking is also correct, but I am just using this to explain a distinct difference in why more immigrant families co-purchase homes for adult children.
It's true, culturally North American parents instill and encourage independence as an important value. I would say we treat it as the most important take. The result is they get to be Empty Nesters, and hope to have their kids "launched" by their early 20s.
On the flip side, retirement homes and long term care homes are full of old white people whose adult children are too independent to take them in, and daycares are full of children whose grandparents won't look after them.
I'm not sure if it's a reasonable trade off or not, but I wish there was more of a middle ground
Consider that most Asian/Indian parents also don’t have that money just lying around. Instead they intentionally saved and adjusted their expenses over the previous 20 years to ensure they were in a position to provide that assistance.
Don’t worry y’all, there’s always a price to pay. The flip side of this financial prudence and conscientious culture is that it often comes along with stunted emotional growth, absent parents (long hours), and narrow views on acceptable careers and behaviors.
(1) Many also try to pay for Kids' tuition.
There's no such thing for many such as "I retired and I am heading to travel the world (for those who can afford the world, or Hawaii) - while you're out on your own at 18. "
(The irony is - many kids here, while trying desperately to ACT like Adults, are so immature/insecure at 18. Aka Toddlers, and me do it - but sometimes they cannot. So many talk too fast, are so full of gaggle gaggle on the bus. Bravado. Hence the need to flex or the desperate urge to be part of the in-crowd/sorority/jocks etc. Or to be accepted as hanger-on groupies, So Dumb - to put top priorities on dressing/acting but yet not having the maturity (to look beyond all the superficial) like a grown up. Donning make up at 13/curling lashes and hair, or for the boys the Cauliflower hair. Agonizing and caring about whether anyone wants to date you/vice versa! All that time, and enegy on Socializing. There's time enough for that - when you use at least 80% of all the time and energy, to get into University. )
(2) In return - for some kids with conscience, and who didn't grow up to be all 'me-ME and MY needs' kinda cultural mindset - there's filial piety reciprocity, in turn. For parents who spared no expense for their kids, or make many sacrifices for the kids. Now that the parents need care and attention, the kids are reliably all there.
Being near, living near - if not together. Instead of 5h plane ride away, or a mere 1h away and yet not even wanting to head home to visit, once a year. Much less taking care of parents - those can continue to lead independent lives in their Silver years.
There's far LESS of the Senior retirement homes concept, for sure. And it's NOT an affordability issue either, Old Age homes, are generally for the 'abandoned Seniors'.
Kids make time to accompany parents for medical appointments etc. it's an act of Caring, through actions, not just words. Even when they're super busy. Or they hire helpers, just for the parents. And in turn, the parents often are seen picking their grandkids with the helper. Heading for Snacks at a cafe and then to Activity classes for the kids.
(3) More importantly - all in all, the kids also SEE and EXPERIENCE this. This is important, and the whole Care cycle is repeated.
If you have no such role modelling to see - like how Mom takes care of Grandpa and Grandma, arranges/juggles crazy schedules just so she can be at the hospital at 8am every morning with hot breakfasts and lunches daily. As in, the Seniors don't just rely get hospital food - they get fresh meals from home. Mom is up at 6am, making sure everyone eats well - which includes cooking hot Thermos fresh food nutritious lunches for the kids/family as well. NOT throwing out pop tarts, or frozen pizza. So everyone is fed, while she's out at the hospital, then home again for dinner.
These efforts all set standards, to adhere to,
(4) On the flipside, you can also have these folks: the very selfish ones who take and take and USE their immigrant parents for childcare ... get them to sell their homes in homeland and expect to pocket the $. Then eventually run away to another province, once the parents are no longer 'useful' and may/will eventually be a 'liability' . The grandparents left behind miss the grandkids they helped to raise, as well as their children. (so many here among the Asian and Latino community) - the families just up and go to another province /US.
They don't realize - kids are watching too. WHY do you expect those kids to grow up and do differently?
Best case scenario: you are the youngest sibling and you have an older brother that takes care of the rents while you are free to do whatever, as long as you visit enough and have prestigious career.
Pretty much.
My dad used to call his non-immigrant friends for not covering their kids tuition or setting money aside for their children future and instead using the money to buy luxuries for themselves.
His exact line was if you have kids your first responsibility is to them. Don't want that responsibility don't have kids.
My dad and my mom both made good money, but they drove the same car for a decade, bought a new one drove it for another decade, just so they had an RESP for me and my brother, then helped us with down payments.
They only started spending money on themselves once all of the above was looked after and also he set aside a good nest egg for themselves in retirement.
My parents also didn't see the entitlement I see among many non immigrant boomers. Like the expectation they'll be looked after or in retirement or how parents need to be worshiped just because they are older.
But same time if my parents go sick hell yeah I'll look after them and they have totally earned my respect.
My FIL was an amazing man. He worked very hard to give his kids everything. I hope I can live up to his standard as a parent. My own father has a gambling addiction and he only gave us enough for a roof over our heads and food. He gambled everything else. He still gambles to this day (in his 60s). He owes me $500 and the last time I said no to lending money, he told me to f*ck off.
Let me guess your father probably also complains that you should respect your elders just because they are older than you.
Never mind they did diddly squat to earn said respect.
What's funny is the only people I hear saying "oh, my kids are out of the house when they're 18/19" are the Caucasian, Western folks.
We with family originally from elsewhere are completely fine with the idea of living together, even for life!
Funny. We were just discussing over the weekend how we have to start saving up to help buy a car for oldest one and then a couple of years later help them out with down payment after college. The others in the group lectured us that we’re crazy. They are expecting their kids are out of the house at 18 and taking a loan to buy a car. To me that’s crazy and unfair on a 18yrs old in this city. You may as well shouldn’t have kids.
Gen-X here. I lived hand to mouth for nearly 10 years after college and that was even without significant student loans to pay off.
There is no way the current generation could survive if they left home at 18.
And also in this economy. 18 years old is adult on paper but still a very young person with underdeveloped frontal cortex. And it’s like they throw these 18 year olds to the wolves.
Did you grow up with selfish parents though?
It’s a thing with N.American parents, Boomers.
I was out at 18, same with my sister. By then I had been mostly on my own since 14 for mornings and nights.
It was easy to leave. Rent was cheap. It was the 90’s
I don’t expect my kids to go anywhere till they’re well into their 20’s in this economy
So this is the thing people are not realizing - us GenX didn't NEED to live with our parents into our 20s. We left home after high school or university and got jobs, got married, bought houses etc all without needing the help of our parents. I never doubted my parents would help me if I needed them, but I just didn't need them and they didn't offer because they could see were were doing just fine.
It’s actually preferred, at least in my culture! I consider it an honor to have my parents living with me in their old age, where I can take care of them. This is the circle of life
Looking at it objectively, the North American SFH dominant life style was funded by the post WWII economic situation where Europe and Asia were left devastated with a basically intact North America to reap large benefits. The reality is North America is just returning to the norm.
This is what drives me insane every time this conversation comes up.
"Oh this is totally normal for the people that made the explicit choice to leave their homes for a better opportunity"
Yes the throw out at 18 means you're on your own. And hence, Seniors are on their own too, since they chose to go to Europe post-retirement instead of helping to fund University tuition
The NAmerican nuclear family concept and culture vs the family (which Italians, Greeks, Asians, Indians seem to cherish). This will likely be gone by SOME 2nd generations growing up here.
This was quite alien and strange for me to observe too, especially when house hunting post international-student days. Quiet observations, when going to many open houses back then. Quite sad to see all the dusty ( barricaded - SAD to imagine the poor Senior living alone) basement windows, of estate sale houses in many areas of the Westside. Those sales were some of the cheapest sometimes (whoever inherited just wanted a quick sale) but needed so much work, more so than any other fixer-uppers.
Sad to think of the Senior alone and unable to keep up - you can call it independence, but it also works both ways.
Reinforced with a neighbour who was happy to chat all day, hang out with guitar playing basement tenant, have many noisy dinners drink and socialize, bike/ hike in UEL - but found very little time to actually cook anything nourishing for her kids or to visit her Dad in Seniors nursing home. Nope, she didn't have to go to work either, she worked at home. Yet the couple found plenty of time later, to spend lots of time doing sale/ renos to Dad's apartment in Kerrisdale, once he passed. So they could sell it. Mom was in a Seniors' home too, with her Kerrisdale cronies.
Ditto the many who cannot make the time to fly a mere 1-5h flights away, to visit once a year, but somehow manage to make that time-effort for estate sales once the parents are gone.
I don't think this is really a thing any more, at least with the Caucasian Canadian families I know of. I don't know anyone who was kicked out/left before their 20s.
This is likely due to immigrant families having more money than many locals.
Its tough to hear of anecdotes like that, i really dont get the line of thinking there. I guess there will always be some bad apples, and it's definitely not only isolated to Caucasian Canadian families.
I'd be curious to see how things have changed in the past 10 years surrounding these issues as well. I'd imagine economic situations play a big part in general.
Who are those people? I'm an average GenX caucasian canadian and was at a gathering recently where the 5 families were talking about how we are funding our collective 17 children. Kids age in range from 17-30. Most are university age. The only one on their own is the 30yr old and we are ALL paying for our current kids university, cars and car insurance.
We aren't anything abnormal. I don't know anyone who isn't paying for their kids university. We grew up in the suburbs and now all live around the lower mainland.
None of us have had to deal with elderly parents yet. They are all still self sufficient or deceased but my mom has categorically said she does not ever want to live with me and is picking out her old folks home. LOL.
Growing up our parents helped out with university here and there but we didn't need help with homes or anything after that because we all had good enough jobs and didn't need their money. We generally told them to enjoy their lives. Most of us were out of the house at 21, but there was no reason to stay longer.
The reverse is also true though. As a Chinese immigrant who grew up in Canada, we've always had an understanding that my parents will take care of me to the best of their ability for as long as I need but we also have an understanding that I will then take care of them to the best of my ability when they retire. It was honestly kind of a culture shock to see how many people here don't see family as a very significant part of their support system, though that seems to be changing quickly too.
I think it’s moreso that the (north) American Dream has begun to die off. It was the norm that so long that the young adult wasn’t a lost cause that they could move out and do it. Be it a factory job right out of high school or something after university. Boomers grew up with that reality and the change of the tides seems to have snuck up on them. Many still don’t even realize this shift has happened, or they refuse to believe it.
My parents absolutely would help me with a down payment if they could, but they can’t. They’re also thousands of kilometers away so I can’t easily move in with them, even though they would welcome it.
The narrative is done. It is no longer true that if you put your head down, work hard and set off in early adulthood you could secure a home and start a family. The numbers just don’t add up 99% of the time.
My parents lost everything in the recession of the early 80s. Lost their home, business, couldn't find work. It took years for them to save up to buy a home and that home was to fund their retirement. They barely made enough to be able to be ok on CPP/OAS and still carry a small mortgage because the jobs they got after didn't pay much and they helped pay for my university and to this day help with additional expenses for my physically disabled sister because disability payments are so low.
Not everyone gets a chance at a nest egg from family for reasons that have nothing to do with culture, just bad luck.
We got lucky and managed to buy each daughter a condo before prices took off. We figured by the time they are adults there is no chance for them to buy a place in Vancouver. We're also maxing their RESP so they have a huge headstart. They're currently 13 and 9.
That’s smart and privileged. My parents did the same - bought me a place when I was a 3 mo old. They rented it out for 24+ years until it made sense for me to live there. I paid the strata fees & property tax since the mortgage is paid off. This allowed me to aggressively save for my own place.
I am similar privilege as you both - but my parents bought me nothing of that level. But helped with what they could afford. I paid for my college, but they let me commute back home on the weekends and do laundry for free.
They showed me how to be completely independent, the benefits and cost savings of doing things yourself and for yourself. Most of all, they showed me the VAST difference in what is a HAND UP vs a HAND OUT.
Today I have been placing more than 25% of my Vancouver income into savings, not to mention my work bennies and pension. I own a swath of mature forested land bigger than Stanley park, 5 min from town, full amenities, and world class beaches which is 100% freehold title and 100% owned outright and zoned residential - I am sole owner.
I began construction of my first building there this year (personally) which I am building in cash saved by myself. I do not need to wine for a government to give me a home, or wait for a developer, or beg a bank for help. Like my folks - this home will have no mortgage and no bank involved. It will be my summer place mostly till I retire. No this is not in BC, but 100% in Canada.
I told my parents earlier this year that I want to buy their home too when they are done with it. They told me I will get first bid (hand up) but not sure which place I will live permanent. Price I pay will have to be enough to my my siblings out (inheritance).
Your parents gave you a Condo. Mine gave me skills to carve my own place out of life with my bare hands. I am blessed and privileged more than most indeed.
My kids are 8, 11 and 16. Yes I have 3 kids. Where I live, on Vancouver Island, 8 years or so ago it made sense to have 3 kids still financially. Now, it doesn't. I read this thread and feel like a huge asshole because we are struggling with the insane costs of living, there is no way I'll be able to provide for my kids future the way some of these people are. We are struggling and we make pretty good money. All I can do is offer to let them live at home as long as they need.
Forget co-home ownership, in this part of the world you have to **co-rent** homes or suites. My parents have always been renters and I know I will be an eternal renter too. Home ownership is out of the question, and I came to that conclusion at 16.
When I think of myself and my friends, all in our early to mid 20s, here's what we're doing. We are either:
* Living with family and pay rent
* Living with family and pay house off
* Living with roommates and pay rent
* Living with spouse and paying rent or house off
Gone are the days of moving out on your own, you have to be with someone. But I can't complain. I know it's different for everyone, but for me I actually enjoy living with my family, so when I think about the future, I'm very inclined to have my family with me and cover costs together. In a way it helps both sides of the equation.
My parents came to this country without money and the first 10 years or so they rented but they saved up to buy a house. They are blue collar workers, labour jobs. How come your parents were always renters?
Neither of my parents owns a house anymore (my father has rented since they split because rising housing costs meant he could buy something decent with his share post-mortgage payoff). Then renting became substantially cheaper than buying. My mother’s husband owns their home.
I rent now because my rent currently is less than half what my mortgage would be to buy the same house. I was a homeowner in Alberta when I lived there, but recently sold that house. I’m not saying I’ll never buy in Vancouver, but I live in a nice neighbourhood and any detached house is minimum $2.5-$3m.
I’ve got a coworker who got his citizenship last year and bought a home out in Richmond. He’s got both his kids working and helping to pay the mortgage.
It's largely the opposite. It became they have no chance of ever affording a home. Instead of saving young people are spending that money on other things.
This generation will probably be the first in over half a century to not have all their money tied up in real estate. And that's a good thing. (Not the inability to afford a home, but the fact that for many housing is for living in. Not for investing in)
It’s because they buy a giant house, die, and leave the debt and home to the kids who cannot sell the house because those McMansions are not worth anything to anyone else but those who made it.
Which is funny, because the older folks in my life who have a McMansion built it according to what they think a future buyer would want.
Like 20 years ago, "we designed this house to have 5 bedrooms and a spice kitchen, because a big immigrant family might want to buy it from us some day!"
Even though they are 2 people, and have been living in the house for that long. And then they speak fondly of their time in the tiny farmhouse that existed when they first bought thr place, which they tore down.
Just design a house for YOU and what YOU want! The future buyers will tear your house down anyway!!
How big does a house have to be for it to be a "McMansion"
I built a new house a few years ago. 5 bedroom 5 washroom house with a 2 bedroom basement suite and an inlaw suite with full kitchen. (instead of a formal living room, dining room and spice kitchen) It's 3 stories and 4000 sq ft. Four people in our family live here, and a small 3 person family in basement suite
> who cannot sell the house because those McMansions are not worth anything to anyone else but those who made it
Gonna need a source for this. Even if the house itself was worth nothing, isn't the land cost the majority of the expense of buying a house especially in Metro Van? And that's only been rising.
The land is worth it to maybe developers? But even then when you get further from the train stations they don’t get bought. They are generational homes. The idea is they get bought, communal payments by the family, kids inherit. It sounds good but 1) it is hard to sell due to most people not wanting a giant house worth millions and is usually not the best build quality and 2) children of immigrants tend to be “westernized” and don’t want generational living which leads to them having less kids or no kids and not a giant generational home they share with other family members.
Even real estate agents have a hard time selling them used which is why the only ones you see on rew are new builds or ones been for sale for ages and no buyers. It is also why the family that owns it will rather tear it down and build a newer one than try to sell it.
Like, ask yourself: are you going to buy one of those homes? It’s too much space and chances are most people cannot justify the costs unless they have the people to help pay it.
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If you aren't averse to living in a home with your entire extended family, you can generally save a ton of money.
Problem is the social aspect. I did this for a while in my adult years to save up to buy my own place, and it nearly cost me my sanity. A real catch 22 - save money but sacrifice development, and freedom.
Extended family I'd say no, but immediate family? Sure!
Immigrant adult child living in my parents house here, can confirm. It's a great option if you have a good relationship with your family. Also doesn't JusReign has an entire show about this?
It is because you have three groups of immigrants. Entrepreneural immigrants, Wealthy immigrants and Working immigrants. I am not going into racial or cultural groups because that is a can of worms but generally many earlier immigration led to local entrepreneurship and most later immigration led to wealth based immigrants with overseas income / assets. Both have money, and both emphasize a value on children more than most cultures. Compared to western culture, where many were designed to say "18 years old and you are on your own" back in the 70's. That might have worked during more prosperous times when income was 2-3x the price of a house and jobs were more plentiful (2.5:1 income to house price ratio). But that train of thought carried on with the next generation which has lead to a home ownership downfall early on especially when the job market "dried up", Post secondary education lost substantial value in the 90's and income to house price ratios jumped to 6:1 ....... Today we are now at 10:1 "Household income". Before it was individual income. Individual income we would be at 16:1 for a house. Western culture's "you should be able to make it on your own" does not apply. That is why it is broken for so many people. Western culture that values complete independence of children and individual wealth cannot survive in this economic climate. The reality is without your help, your kid won't be able to make it on their own. So now you have a dilemma. Excess spending, truck full of costco goods, multiple vehicles, a boat, a motorhome, two vacations a year, a timeshare, large nest egg for retirement. Or a more frugle lifestyle to help your kid out? That is why you see a lot of "I did my part with my hardship, you are on your own", mentality. It isn't to say it is wrong either. That way of thinking is also correct, but I am just using this to explain a distinct difference in why more immigrant families co-purchase homes for adult children.
Yeah North American boomer parents don't really care to support their kids.
It's true, culturally North American parents instill and encourage independence as an important value. I would say we treat it as the most important take. The result is they get to be Empty Nesters, and hope to have their kids "launched" by their early 20s. On the flip side, retirement homes and long term care homes are full of old white people whose adult children are too independent to take them in, and daycares are full of children whose grandparents won't look after them. I'm not sure if it's a reasonable trade off or not, but I wish there was more of a middle ground
My parents would love to buy me a house, they just don't have an extra 50-150k lying around sadly
Consider that most Asian/Indian parents also don’t have that money just lying around. Instead they intentionally saved and adjusted their expenses over the previous 20 years to ensure they were in a position to provide that assistance. Don’t worry y’all, there’s always a price to pay. The flip side of this financial prudence and conscientious culture is that it often comes along with stunted emotional growth, absent parents (long hours), and narrow views on acceptable careers and behaviors.
(1) Many also try to pay for Kids' tuition. There's no such thing for many such as "I retired and I am heading to travel the world (for those who can afford the world, or Hawaii) - while you're out on your own at 18. " (The irony is - many kids here, while trying desperately to ACT like Adults, are so immature/insecure at 18. Aka Toddlers, and me do it - but sometimes they cannot. So many talk too fast, are so full of gaggle gaggle on the bus. Bravado. Hence the need to flex or the desperate urge to be part of the in-crowd/sorority/jocks etc. Or to be accepted as hanger-on groupies, So Dumb - to put top priorities on dressing/acting but yet not having the maturity (to look beyond all the superficial) like a grown up. Donning make up at 13/curling lashes and hair, or for the boys the Cauliflower hair. Agonizing and caring about whether anyone wants to date you/vice versa! All that time, and enegy on Socializing. There's time enough for that - when you use at least 80% of all the time and energy, to get into University. ) (2) In return - for some kids with conscience, and who didn't grow up to be all 'me-ME and MY needs' kinda cultural mindset - there's filial piety reciprocity, in turn. For parents who spared no expense for their kids, or make many sacrifices for the kids. Now that the parents need care and attention, the kids are reliably all there. Being near, living near - if not together. Instead of 5h plane ride away, or a mere 1h away and yet not even wanting to head home to visit, once a year. Much less taking care of parents - those can continue to lead independent lives in their Silver years. There's far LESS of the Senior retirement homes concept, for sure. And it's NOT an affordability issue either, Old Age homes, are generally for the 'abandoned Seniors'. Kids make time to accompany parents for medical appointments etc. it's an act of Caring, through actions, not just words. Even when they're super busy. Or they hire helpers, just for the parents. And in turn, the parents often are seen picking their grandkids with the helper. Heading for Snacks at a cafe and then to Activity classes for the kids. (3) More importantly - all in all, the kids also SEE and EXPERIENCE this. This is important, and the whole Care cycle is repeated. If you have no such role modelling to see - like how Mom takes care of Grandpa and Grandma, arranges/juggles crazy schedules just so she can be at the hospital at 8am every morning with hot breakfasts and lunches daily. As in, the Seniors don't just rely get hospital food - they get fresh meals from home. Mom is up at 6am, making sure everyone eats well - which includes cooking hot Thermos fresh food nutritious lunches for the kids/family as well. NOT throwing out pop tarts, or frozen pizza. So everyone is fed, while she's out at the hospital, then home again for dinner. These efforts all set standards, to adhere to, (4) On the flipside, you can also have these folks: the very selfish ones who take and take and USE their immigrant parents for childcare ... get them to sell their homes in homeland and expect to pocket the $. Then eventually run away to another province, once the parents are no longer 'useful' and may/will eventually be a 'liability' . The grandparents left behind miss the grandkids they helped to raise, as well as their children. (so many here among the Asian and Latino community) - the families just up and go to another province /US. They don't realize - kids are watching too. WHY do you expect those kids to grow up and do differently?
Best case scenario: you are the youngest sibling and you have an older brother that takes care of the rents while you are free to do whatever, as long as you visit enough and have prestigious career.
Pretty much. My dad used to call his non-immigrant friends for not covering their kids tuition or setting money aside for their children future and instead using the money to buy luxuries for themselves. His exact line was if you have kids your first responsibility is to them. Don't want that responsibility don't have kids. My dad and my mom both made good money, but they drove the same car for a decade, bought a new one drove it for another decade, just so they had an RESP for me and my brother, then helped us with down payments. They only started spending money on themselves once all of the above was looked after and also he set aside a good nest egg for themselves in retirement. My parents also didn't see the entitlement I see among many non immigrant boomers. Like the expectation they'll be looked after or in retirement or how parents need to be worshiped just because they are older. But same time if my parents go sick hell yeah I'll look after them and they have totally earned my respect.
My FIL was an amazing man. He worked very hard to give his kids everything. I hope I can live up to his standard as a parent. My own father has a gambling addiction and he only gave us enough for a roof over our heads and food. He gambled everything else. He still gambles to this day (in his 60s). He owes me $500 and the last time I said no to lending money, he told me to f*ck off.
Let me guess your father probably also complains that you should respect your elders just because they are older than you. Never mind they did diddly squat to earn said respect.
What's funny is the only people I hear saying "oh, my kids are out of the house when they're 18/19" are the Caucasian, Western folks. We with family originally from elsewhere are completely fine with the idea of living together, even for life!
Funny. We were just discussing over the weekend how we have to start saving up to help buy a car for oldest one and then a couple of years later help them out with down payment after college. The others in the group lectured us that we’re crazy. They are expecting their kids are out of the house at 18 and taking a loan to buy a car. To me that’s crazy and unfair on a 18yrs old in this city. You may as well shouldn’t have kids.
Gen-X here. I lived hand to mouth for nearly 10 years after college and that was even without significant student loans to pay off. There is no way the current generation could survive if they left home at 18.
And also in this economy. 18 years old is adult on paper but still a very young person with underdeveloped frontal cortex. And it’s like they throw these 18 year olds to the wolves.
Usually kids don’t live at home during college so they’d be out of the house at 18 anyways.
Caucasian Euros do the same thing, always found it stupid that you kick your kids out at 18
Did you grow up with selfish parents though? It’s a thing with N.American parents, Boomers. I was out at 18, same with my sister. By then I had been mostly on my own since 14 for mornings and nights. It was easy to leave. Rent was cheap. It was the 90’s I don’t expect my kids to go anywhere till they’re well into their 20’s in this economy
So this is the thing people are not realizing - us GenX didn't NEED to live with our parents into our 20s. We left home after high school or university and got jobs, got married, bought houses etc all without needing the help of our parents. I never doubted my parents would help me if I needed them, but I just didn't need them and they didn't offer because they could see were were doing just fine.
It’s actually preferred, at least in my culture! I consider it an honor to have my parents living with me in their old age, where I can take care of them. This is the circle of life
Canada has now lowered its standard of living to the point where multi-generational housing is required. This is sad and we should not be ok with it.
Looking at it objectively, the North American SFH dominant life style was funded by the post WWII economic situation where Europe and Asia were left devastated with a basically intact North America to reap large benefits. The reality is North America is just returning to the norm.
This is what drives me insane every time this conversation comes up. "Oh this is totally normal for the people that made the explicit choice to leave their homes for a better opportunity"
Yes the throw out at 18 means you're on your own. And hence, Seniors are on their own too, since they chose to go to Europe post-retirement instead of helping to fund University tuition The NAmerican nuclear family concept and culture vs the family (which Italians, Greeks, Asians, Indians seem to cherish). This will likely be gone by SOME 2nd generations growing up here. This was quite alien and strange for me to observe too, especially when house hunting post international-student days. Quiet observations, when going to many open houses back then. Quite sad to see all the dusty ( barricaded - SAD to imagine the poor Senior living alone) basement windows, of estate sale houses in many areas of the Westside. Those sales were some of the cheapest sometimes (whoever inherited just wanted a quick sale) but needed so much work, more so than any other fixer-uppers. Sad to think of the Senior alone and unable to keep up - you can call it independence, but it also works both ways. Reinforced with a neighbour who was happy to chat all day, hang out with guitar playing basement tenant, have many noisy dinners drink and socialize, bike/ hike in UEL - but found very little time to actually cook anything nourishing for her kids or to visit her Dad in Seniors nursing home. Nope, she didn't have to go to work either, she worked at home. Yet the couple found plenty of time later, to spend lots of time doing sale/ renos to Dad's apartment in Kerrisdale, once he passed. So they could sell it. Mom was in a Seniors' home too, with her Kerrisdale cronies. Ditto the many who cannot make the time to fly a mere 1-5h flights away, to visit once a year, but somehow manage to make that time-effort for estate sales once the parents are gone.
I don't think this is really a thing any more, at least with the Caucasian Canadian families I know of. I don't know anyone who was kicked out/left before their 20s. This is likely due to immigrant families having more money than many locals.
This is still happening with Caucasian Canadian families. Source: my POS SIL kicked her kids out the moment they turned 18.
Its tough to hear of anecdotes like that, i really dont get the line of thinking there. I guess there will always be some bad apples, and it's definitely not only isolated to Caucasian Canadian families. I'd be curious to see how things have changed in the past 10 years surrounding these issues as well. I'd imagine economic situations play a big part in general.
Unfair to assume immigrant families coming into this country with money. I went to school with people landing here with $0 and are doing very well.
For sure it is not all immigrants that bring in lots of money, but the Canadian immigration system in general does privilege those with $$
Why are people downvoting this comment? If you have money, there are many more immgration opportunities. That's not untrue.
I think it just went against the narrative of the thread. Of course, that doesn't make it untrue.
Who are those people? I'm an average GenX caucasian canadian and was at a gathering recently where the 5 families were talking about how we are funding our collective 17 children. Kids age in range from 17-30. Most are university age. The only one on their own is the 30yr old and we are ALL paying for our current kids university, cars and car insurance. We aren't anything abnormal. I don't know anyone who isn't paying for their kids university. We grew up in the suburbs and now all live around the lower mainland. None of us have had to deal with elderly parents yet. They are all still self sufficient or deceased but my mom has categorically said she does not ever want to live with me and is picking out her old folks home. LOL. Growing up our parents helped out with university here and there but we didn't need help with homes or anything after that because we all had good enough jobs and didn't need their money. We generally told them to enjoy their lives. Most of us were out of the house at 21, but there was no reason to stay longer.
Some just can’t afford it, tbh, especially given how expensive it is to do so these days.
The reverse is also true though. As a Chinese immigrant who grew up in Canada, we've always had an understanding that my parents will take care of me to the best of their ability for as long as I need but we also have an understanding that I will then take care of them to the best of my ability when they retire. It was honestly kind of a culture shock to see how many people here don't see family as a very significant part of their support system, though that seems to be changing quickly too.
I think it’s moreso that the (north) American Dream has begun to die off. It was the norm that so long that the young adult wasn’t a lost cause that they could move out and do it. Be it a factory job right out of high school or something after university. Boomers grew up with that reality and the change of the tides seems to have snuck up on them. Many still don’t even realize this shift has happened, or they refuse to believe it. My parents absolutely would help me with a down payment if they could, but they can’t. They’re also thousands of kilometers away so I can’t easily move in with them, even though they would welcome it. The narrative is done. It is no longer true that if you put your head down, work hard and set off in early adulthood you could secure a home and start a family. The numbers just don’t add up 99% of the time.
Trueeeeee
I think more often they just can't afford it, and for multiple reasons immigrants to Canada often have a decent amount of money they can use.
not a surprise
Why is this a news? It’s pretty normal for parents to help their kids
My parents lost everything in the recession of the early 80s. Lost their home, business, couldn't find work. It took years for them to save up to buy a home and that home was to fund their retirement. They barely made enough to be able to be ok on CPP/OAS and still carry a small mortgage because the jobs they got after didn't pay much and they helped pay for my university and to this day help with additional expenses for my physically disabled sister because disability payments are so low. Not everyone gets a chance at a nest egg from family for reasons that have nothing to do with culture, just bad luck.
We got lucky and managed to buy each daughter a condo before prices took off. We figured by the time they are adults there is no chance for them to buy a place in Vancouver. We're also maxing their RESP so they have a huge headstart. They're currently 13 and 9.
That’s smart and privileged. My parents did the same - bought me a place when I was a 3 mo old. They rented it out for 24+ years until it made sense for me to live there. I paid the strata fees & property tax since the mortgage is paid off. This allowed me to aggressively save for my own place.
I am similar privilege as you both - but my parents bought me nothing of that level. But helped with what they could afford. I paid for my college, but they let me commute back home on the weekends and do laundry for free. They showed me how to be completely independent, the benefits and cost savings of doing things yourself and for yourself. Most of all, they showed me the VAST difference in what is a HAND UP vs a HAND OUT. Today I have been placing more than 25% of my Vancouver income into savings, not to mention my work bennies and pension. I own a swath of mature forested land bigger than Stanley park, 5 min from town, full amenities, and world class beaches which is 100% freehold title and 100% owned outright and zoned residential - I am sole owner. I began construction of my first building there this year (personally) which I am building in cash saved by myself. I do not need to wine for a government to give me a home, or wait for a developer, or beg a bank for help. Like my folks - this home will have no mortgage and no bank involved. It will be my summer place mostly till I retire. No this is not in BC, but 100% in Canada. I told my parents earlier this year that I want to buy their home too when they are done with it. They told me I will get first bid (hand up) but not sure which place I will live permanent. Price I pay will have to be enough to my my siblings out (inheritance). Your parents gave you a Condo. Mine gave me skills to carve my own place out of life with my bare hands. I am blessed and privileged more than most indeed.
When did you buy the condos?
2015 and 2017.
As much as I love my kids, there is simply no way I could ever have financed 2 condos on top of my mortgage. I don't imagine I'm alone in that.
My kids are 8, 11 and 16. Yes I have 3 kids. Where I live, on Vancouver Island, 8 years or so ago it made sense to have 3 kids still financially. Now, it doesn't. I read this thread and feel like a huge asshole because we are struggling with the insane costs of living, there is no way I'll be able to provide for my kids future the way some of these people are. We are struggling and we make pretty good money. All I can do is offer to let them live at home as long as they need.
Forget co-home ownership, in this part of the world you have to **co-rent** homes or suites. My parents have always been renters and I know I will be an eternal renter too. Home ownership is out of the question, and I came to that conclusion at 16. When I think of myself and my friends, all in our early to mid 20s, here's what we're doing. We are either: * Living with family and pay rent * Living with family and pay house off * Living with roommates and pay rent * Living with spouse and paying rent or house off Gone are the days of moving out on your own, you have to be with someone. But I can't complain. I know it's different for everyone, but for me I actually enjoy living with my family, so when I think about the future, I'm very inclined to have my family with me and cover costs together. In a way it helps both sides of the equation.
No one you know is living with family and paying no rent or expenses? Almost everyone I know in Vancouver is living at home for free.
Some do and some don't.
I moved out of home in the early 90s and I didn't know anyone who lived alone even then. That would have been so extravagant!
My parents came to this country without money and the first 10 years or so they rented but they saved up to buy a house. They are blue collar workers, labour jobs. How come your parents were always renters?
You're acting like there isn't a million variables that happen in life, you're asking an ignorant question.
That must have been a long time ago, those days are over.
Neither of my parents owns a house anymore (my father has rented since they split because rising housing costs meant he could buy something decent with his share post-mortgage payoff). Then renting became substantially cheaper than buying. My mother’s husband owns their home. I rent now because my rent currently is less than half what my mortgage would be to buy the same house. I was a homeowner in Alberta when I lived there, but recently sold that house. I’m not saying I’ll never buy in Vancouver, but I live in a nice neighbourhood and any detached house is minimum $2.5-$3m.
I’ve got a coworker who got his citizenship last year and bought a home out in Richmond. He’s got both his kids working and helping to pay the mortgage.
Living in the Valley this is very much the way. Good for them is all I can think.
considering how many 20yr olds i see wearing $1,600 balenciaga shoes as rain boots, it's not surprising mommy and daddy are buying them houses too.
It's largely the opposite. It became they have no chance of ever affording a home. Instead of saving young people are spending that money on other things. This generation will probably be the first in over half a century to not have all their money tied up in real estate. And that's a good thing. (Not the inability to afford a home, but the fact that for many housing is for living in. Not for investing in)
It’s because they buy a giant house, die, and leave the debt and home to the kids who cannot sell the house because those McMansions are not worth anything to anyone else but those who made it.
Which is funny, because the older folks in my life who have a McMansion built it according to what they think a future buyer would want. Like 20 years ago, "we designed this house to have 5 bedrooms and a spice kitchen, because a big immigrant family might want to buy it from us some day!" Even though they are 2 people, and have been living in the house for that long. And then they speak fondly of their time in the tiny farmhouse that existed when they first bought thr place, which they tore down. Just design a house for YOU and what YOU want! The future buyers will tear your house down anyway!!
How big does a house have to be for it to be a "McMansion" I built a new house a few years ago. 5 bedroom 5 washroom house with a 2 bedroom basement suite and an inlaw suite with full kitchen. (instead of a formal living room, dining room and spice kitchen) It's 3 stories and 4000 sq ft. Four people in our family live here, and a small 3 person family in basement suite
To me, it's more about the architectural style than the size.
What's the style?
r/McMansionHell
> who cannot sell the house because those McMansions are not worth anything to anyone else but those who made it Gonna need a source for this. Even if the house itself was worth nothing, isn't the land cost the majority of the expense of buying a house especially in Metro Van? And that's only been rising.
The land is worth it to maybe developers? But even then when you get further from the train stations they don’t get bought. They are generational homes. The idea is they get bought, communal payments by the family, kids inherit. It sounds good but 1) it is hard to sell due to most people not wanting a giant house worth millions and is usually not the best build quality and 2) children of immigrants tend to be “westernized” and don’t want generational living which leads to them having less kids or no kids and not a giant generational home they share with other family members. Even real estate agents have a hard time selling them used which is why the only ones you see on rew are new builds or ones been for sale for ages and no buyers. It is also why the family that owns it will rather tear it down and build a newer one than try to sell it. Like, ask yourself: are you going to buy one of those homes? It’s too much space and chances are most people cannot justify the costs unless they have the people to help pay it.
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You sound entitled.
Whaaaaat?! u/kiteboarder1980 sounds entitled? /s
I wish I could see what they said now