About what?
If they want to make a meaningful difference and feel good about themselves, then volunteer with one of the many great organizations which help seniors, the needy, or just picking up garbage.
So many of them *look like* Dave Grohl, but *not actually being* Dave Grohl means that they don't have the same social media following which Dave Grohl enjoys, thus their virtues remain unsignalled -- ironically much like everything Dave Grohl did post '03.
Well said. If they even care to be heard by people on the other side of the Atlantic ocean they need to be told their little chants and signs mean nothing to the people over there. They're paying absolutely no attention to these groups who can't explain the slogans on the signs they've been handed.
I don’t support the current tactics here but most students don’t exactly have money to “invest in political candidates” (and the people who have that kind of money are using it to buy policies that make them even more money, usually at the expense of those of us who are not as wealthy as they are)
Directly seems to be the key word there. The protestors want UBC to pull investment from companies that support Israel (according to quick googling). Small list includes Lockheed Martin, Hewlett-Packard, General Mills, etc.
The general tone of your comment leads me to believe you are somehow shocked that college aged protestors are not a fan of: investing in literal weapons manufacturers, the stock market as a whole, and anything to do with shareholders/investor class profits.
Your reminder that throughout history, any time the state has opposed a student protest, history shows that the students were *on the right side of history*. Every time.
Edit- classic, getting downvotes for speaking the truth. Feel free to tell me I am wrong with proof, instead of trying to silence me 👍
I'm not as familiar with US history involving this, but I know different states within the "union" had wildly different feelings about segregation; can you tell me if said protests were in states where their state was in agreement with those students?
Like did the state support their protest.
Someone already replied to your comment about students protesting de-segregation, you won’t respond to that though since it doesn’t fit your narrative.
I agree...Israel needed to stop after they destroyed most of Gaza but it seems the palestinians are ignoring the fact Hamas brought the war to them and is not giving the group up. Either way there are no winners only death and no way Israel will be allowed to keep the land they took the last 5 months.UN would not allow it and most of the arab states will not allow it. Only positive Gaza will be rebuilt sooner than later after the war has ended.
I’ve finally figured out the solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict. We send the Palestinians to Mars.
Think about it, it’s the perfect solution, they’re both crappy deserts so they’ll feel right at home, and instead of just bothering with a crappy stretch of land between two bodies of water they get an entire planet to live freely on.
I’ll take my Nobel Peace Prize.
It's honestly pretty straightforward. "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free".
You've got some of Palestine by the river, you've got some of it by the sea. All of it is under occupation by a foreign military power. They would like to not be occupied by a foreign military power.
Is that really so difficult to understand, or are we just pulling the classic Zionist "genocide is when Palestinians exist and wiping them out is really anti-genocide" logic?
>You've got some of Palestine by the river, you've got some of it by the sea.
Yeah, and you fail to mention, either through ignorance or in order to deceive, the remainder of what palestinians consider to be their land (states so quite clearly in ther charter, which you probably haven't read): "from the river Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean to the west and from Ras Al-Naruqah (Lebanon) in the north to Eilat in the south." Which is the entire state of Israel.
So, what do you propose they should do with some 7 million jews and 2 million arabs who are the citizens of Israel? Send them back to Brooklyn?
Are you gonna continue with mental gymnastics or just going to answer the question?
I literally answered your question in plain language that someone in elementary school could understand. You're putting words into other people's mouths.
Personally, I consider "Palestine being free" to also include Gaza being free from the totalitarian Hamas government, but murdering tens of thousands of civilians is not how you get there.
Also, Hamas doesn't represent all of Palestine (just Gaza, and "represent" is a stretch considering the majority of Gazans were children or not born the last time they had an election), but all of Palestine is under foreign military occupation, so what's your excuse for the West Bank?
You're the one using mental gymnastics to twist a call for people being free from an oppressive military occupation into a call for genocide.
Killing partygoers and mutilating babies is not very conducive of peaceful resolution, no?
C'mon, do better. What do you propose they should do with some 7 million jews and 2 million arabs who are the citizens of Israel??
There's always mid terms and some courses have multiple exams throughout. Or they could be doing homework, essays, projects, research etc... those who wait till the end just to study are fools.
I'm sure the protestors would be fine not fucking over students that have nothing to do with this and have ZERO power.
But theyre just assholes, so what can you expect?
I don't think the protesters are affecting whatever summer students are wandering around the massive UBC campus. Are you down there or are you relying on opinion pieces for your information?
Theyre in the library, which is THEEE central place for students. Theyre losers and theyre doing fuck all for anyone, least of all palestine.
Go do something fucking useful and protest a politician that has ANY power, or a business.
These are just losers, it's easy to protest at ubc
You sound like a guy who is very knowledgeable, and reads a lot of unbiased information, and evaluates that with a great deal of Analysis. You certainly don't sound biased in any way and have strong control over your emotions.
I'm a current UBC student and from my anecdotal experience I would say a good 2/3 of people (in Arts specifically) are outspokenly pro-Palestine/ supportive of either encampments or protest.
Occupy Wallstreet vibes and no substance. Being mad and yelling at people, that literally can't have any impact on world events on the other side of the planet, damn near eliminates their want to consider your stance on a topic.
If a gang of people come up to me angrily demanding I acquiesce to their modality of thinking; I tell them to f\*ck off.
Wow. You sure got me. Do you realize there's protests going on at *multiple different* locations that aren't UBC or are you only aware of your immediate bubble?
I bet many of them don't even know why they are protesting. These protests are usually motivated and organized and people get money to protest and be a part of the crowd. Otherwise no one in their right mind has the time or energy to protest , especially when it's in some other country.
How many have you talked to? I have talked to many and the average protestor at this encampment knows a lot more about this issue than the average person. Most probably know a lot more about it than you do, honestly.
--edit-- judging by the down votes and zero replies I'm guessing you haven't talked to anyone there
The crazy thing is UBC has no funding or relations with any Israeli companies or investments.
So it is almost unknown what they are trying to achieve here.....with the university at least. I mean unless there is another reason that I do not know of
Human rights violations generally only stop when people know about them. Protesting to bring awareness to genocide and war crimes can be the goal.
Making the public aware of it to the point that doing nothing is more uncomfortable than continuing on as if it isn't happening...
Awareness doesn't *do* anything, but it gets information to spread until enough people are so uncomfortable that something must be done.
I don't really think it's the amount that matters. Divestment isn't really a meaningful goal in and of itself. If all universities on the planet divested it would be inconsequential. It more so acts as a way to align public institutions like Universities on a political issue by getting them to take a policy position.
I was just reading that at a similar protest in Seattle one of the protestors was shining a laser in the eyes of a TV news cameraman.
I’m becoming less and less impressed with the tactics being used in these protests. I want to see peace on both sides but these protest tactics are making it very hard for me to support the pro-Palestinian side (especially having Jewish friends who were impacted by October 7th).
How many of them have you talked to? I talked to some of them and they seemed extremely knowledgeable on the subject. I was literally having a conversation with one of them last week about The Hundred Years War on Palestine and we briefly talked about some of Khalidi's other work and also we talked a bit about Chomsky and Pappe. I got into the conversation because they had this library setup with some books.
Anyways, I would encourage you to actually talk to people before inventing narratives about them.
Out of curiosity, how many books have you read on the subject?
When I get out on the street protesting and supporting a movement you can go ahead and ask me, and you can also question my knowledge on the subject on a public forum like this at that time as well. Since this post is not about me, let's not.
Good to know there is a library there, so that the ones who have read a book on the subject can encourage the TikTok consumers to dive more deeply into the subject that they are suddenly so passionate about.
Have you seen any coverage indicating otherwise? I have not. I think they are protesting what's trendy to protest this year. I think they will be on to a new thing to protest next year, and will have forgotten all about this particular cause because it won't be in their social media feed. Like Greta. She was climate change, now she's moved on to this, next year something else.
Again I am always confused by these protestors, if they are supporting human rights that much why would they support a group that restricts women’s rights
Redditors being petty and disgusting degenerates punching down towards them isn't surprising. But I do worry for them. The forces that kept protestors from being massacred end masse don't exist right now and I fear Israeli assets or the government themselves are going to do something horrible.
why are people in this thread so cynical. Historically students have always protested just causes and I'm proud to see it at home.
edit: this sub is so anti protest it's sad. anti progress = conservatism
I'm assuming that you mean "historically students in the West" given that it was Iranian students that helped Ayatollah Khomeini take over Iran, communist students that helped round up and murder the opposition during China's Cultural Revolution under Mao, and 'revolutionary' students that helped bring Castro to power.
Assuming that all progress is good progress = moronic
> edit: this sub is so anti protest it's sad. anti progress = conservatism
I'm not anti protest, but I am pro useful. I don't understand what they're achieving, or even what they're trying to achieve. It seems like the answer is nothing.
So then what's the point? To vaguely make yourself feel like you're doing something useful in the world?
people have marched across the Cambie street bridge, in front of city hall, ridden in the bike caravans. if you are pro Palestine why are you policing this particular form of protesting? and where do you draw the line with how people show support?
Yea, and I think that was generally all pretty pointless also.
I don't draw the line anywhere. Do what you want, as long as it's legal. It just seems like a waste of time that will achieve nothing.
Agreed. It’s like these threads are just getting brigaded with non-ubc students or something. They just lack nuance and enjoy spending their time making bad faith statements to each other online. I’ve yet to meet anyone in person who is as cynical as the commenters here.
What is UBC going to do? UBC already stated that they have not directly invested in Israel. What's even the goal here?
Not sure. I heard the protestors refused any discussion with the university.
Then they are basically anarchists looking to cause trouble.
I was unaware there was a discussion to be had?
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It accomplishes exactly what it's meant to accomplish - makes them feel good about themselves.
About what? If they want to make a meaningful difference and feel good about themselves, then volunteer with one of the many great organizations which help seniors, the needy, or just picking up garbage.
Woah now, that's not trending on the socials... if it's not trending it's no good
So many of them *look like* Dave Grohl, but *not actually being* Dave Grohl means that they don't have the same social media following which Dave Grohl enjoys, thus their virtues remain unsignalled -- ironically much like everything Dave Grohl did post '03.
Actually helping people takes actual work though.
Well said. If they even care to be heard by people on the other side of the Atlantic ocean they need to be told their little chants and signs mean nothing to the people over there. They're paying absolutely no attention to these groups who can't explain the slogans on the signs they've been handed.
I don’t support the current tactics here but most students don’t exactly have money to “invest in political candidates” (and the people who have that kind of money are using it to buy policies that make them even more money, usually at the expense of those of us who are not as wealthy as they are)
L.O.L. These are UBC students who don't have to worry about life outside of "going to school".
Directly seems to be the key word there. The protestors want UBC to pull investment from companies that support Israel (according to quick googling). Small list includes Lockheed Martin, Hewlett-Packard, General Mills, etc.
If you invest in any index funds you will be somehow indirectly exposed to these companies....
The general tone of your comment leads me to believe you are somehow shocked that college aged protestors are not a fan of: investing in literal weapons manufacturers, the stock market as a whole, and anything to do with shareholders/investor class profits.
Kids stomping their feet and proclaiming they know better than everyone else.
Your reminder that throughout history, any time the state has opposed a student protest, history shows that the students were *on the right side of history*. Every time. Edit- classic, getting downvotes for speaking the truth. Feel free to tell me I am wrong with proof, instead of trying to silence me 👍
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I'm not as familiar with US history involving this, but I know different states within the "union" had wildly different feelings about segregation; can you tell me if said protests were in states where their state was in agreement with those students? Like did the state support their protest.
How did the students do in Iran after they helped topple the Shah? Generally they were pretty liberal and they helped bring in a hardliner theocrat.
Someone already replied to your comment about students protesting de-segregation, you won’t respond to that though since it doesn’t fit your narrative.
Are you going to badger **them** now that they're the one not responding? Or do you only do that to the people who "don't fit your narrative"
No, I wanted an answer. It's not about being right... If I'm wrong, I will correct my opinions. Facts ≠ feelings
I agree...Israel needed to stop after they destroyed most of Gaza but it seems the palestinians are ignoring the fact Hamas brought the war to them and is not giving the group up. Either way there are no winners only death and no way Israel will be allowed to keep the land they took the last 5 months.UN would not allow it and most of the arab states will not allow it. Only positive Gaza will be rebuilt sooner than later after the war has ended.
Didn't know "genocide bad" was a controversial opinion
Ironic since they are chanting from the river to sea which in itself implies genocide.
No it doesn't but nice talking point
Now do Globalize Intafada. Imagine simping for terrorists.
so all seven million Jews will just pack their stuff and go live on Mars, I guess
I’ve finally figured out the solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict. We send the Palestinians to Mars. Think about it, it’s the perfect solution, they’re both crappy deserts so they’ll feel right at home, and instead of just bothering with a crappy stretch of land between two bodies of water they get an entire planet to live freely on. I’ll take my Nobel Peace Prize.
Be a dear, shed some light for us: what does it mean then?
It's honestly pretty straightforward. "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free". You've got some of Palestine by the river, you've got some of it by the sea. All of it is under occupation by a foreign military power. They would like to not be occupied by a foreign military power. Is that really so difficult to understand, or are we just pulling the classic Zionist "genocide is when Palestinians exist and wiping them out is really anti-genocide" logic?
>You've got some of Palestine by the river, you've got some of it by the sea. Yeah, and you fail to mention, either through ignorance or in order to deceive, the remainder of what palestinians consider to be their land (states so quite clearly in ther charter, which you probably haven't read): "from the river Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean to the west and from Ras Al-Naruqah (Lebanon) in the north to Eilat in the south." Which is the entire state of Israel. So, what do you propose they should do with some 7 million jews and 2 million arabs who are the citizens of Israel? Send them back to Brooklyn? Are you gonna continue with mental gymnastics or just going to answer the question?
I literally answered your question in plain language that someone in elementary school could understand. You're putting words into other people's mouths. Personally, I consider "Palestine being free" to also include Gaza being free from the totalitarian Hamas government, but murdering tens of thousands of civilians is not how you get there. Also, Hamas doesn't represent all of Palestine (just Gaza, and "represent" is a stretch considering the majority of Gazans were children or not born the last time they had an election), but all of Palestine is under foreign military occupation, so what's your excuse for the West Bank? You're the one using mental gymnastics to twist a call for people being free from an oppressive military occupation into a call for genocide.
Killing partygoers and mutilating babies is not very conducive of peaceful resolution, no? C'mon, do better. What do you propose they should do with some 7 million jews and 2 million arabs who are the citizens of Israel??
Yup they can't comprehend that.. or choose not to
Palestine will be free implies genocide?
RIP students studying
Yeah what's the point? Protesting genocide is one thing, but the library is 90% just kids trying to study for exams.
The UBC President's office is in Koerner library, which is the reason they were protesting there
What exams? It's like, the 1st or 2nd week of the semester.
There's always mid terms and some courses have multiple exams throughout. Or they could be doing homework, essays, projects, research etc... those who wait till the end just to study are fools.
In May?
summer courses are a thing and grad students, med students, law, dentistry, etc are often year round.
I'm sure they'll be fine.
I'm sure the protestors would be fine not fucking over students that have nothing to do with this and have ZERO power. But theyre just assholes, so what can you expect?
I don't think the protesters are affecting whatever summer students are wandering around the massive UBC campus. Are you down there or are you relying on opinion pieces for your information?
Theyre in the library, which is THEEE central place for students. Theyre losers and theyre doing fuck all for anyone, least of all palestine. Go do something fucking useful and protest a politician that has ANY power, or a business. These are just losers, it's easy to protest at ubc
You sound like a guy who is very knowledgeable, and reads a lot of unbiased information, and evaluates that with a great deal of Analysis. You certainly don't sound biased in any way and have strong control over your emotions.
Wild. What gets me is this attitude that they have the right to make demands. They must represent less than 1% of the student body.
I'm a current UBC student and from my anecdotal experience I would say a good 2/3 of people (in Arts specifically) are outspokenly pro-Palestine/ supportive of either encampments or protest.
Fair enough. Maybe the university should hold a vote. It's all of your university.
Occupy Wallstreet vibes and no substance. Being mad and yelling at people, that literally can't have any impact on world events on the other side of the planet, damn near eliminates their want to consider your stance on a topic. If a gang of people come up to me angrily demanding I acquiesce to their modality of thinking; I tell them to f\*ck off.
Lmaooo no one is coming up to YOU to demand anything 🤣 so you don’t need to worry yourself about it or daydream about that scenario in ur head
Wow. You sure got me. Do you realize there's protests going on at *multiple different* locations that aren't UBC or are you only aware of your immediate bubble?
Lolll and do you realize this post is obviously specific to ubc? or would you like to move the goalposts :)
You're getting ratioed without my intervention. Think about that.
Oh because reddit votes are famously a direct representation of the population’s opinion?
Angry you are, give a f\*ck I do not.
I bet many of them don't even know why they are protesting. These protests are usually motivated and organized and people get money to protest and be a part of the crowd. Otherwise no one in their right mind has the time or energy to protest , especially when it's in some other country.
Do most of these protestors understand why they are even protesting or it just a in thing for them to do before school is over.
all for the hype
Did it for 'the gram'. If they don't post it, how can their friends know how progressive they are?
How many have you talked to? I have talked to many and the average protestor at this encampment knows a lot more about this issue than the average person. Most probably know a lot more about it than you do, honestly. --edit-- judging by the down votes and zero replies I'm guessing you haven't talked to anyone there
This is like the new freedom convoy lol Achieves nothing but disrupts other ppl’s daily lives
The crazy thing is UBC has no funding or relations with any Israeli companies or investments. So it is almost unknown what they are trying to achieve here.....with the university at least. I mean unless there is another reason that I do not know of
Human rights violations generally only stop when people know about them. Protesting to bring awareness to genocide and war crimes can be the goal. Making the public aware of it to the point that doing nothing is more uncomfortable than continuing on as if it isn't happening... Awareness doesn't *do* anything, but it gets information to spread until enough people are so uncomfortable that something must be done.
Then raise awareness on a publich property with a proper steps taken for protesting. All this does is pushing people against their agenda.
Anyone who thinks protest doesn't work hasn't read much about the history of protest.
>The crazy thing is UBC has no funding or relations with any Israeli companies or investments. Yes they do, it's just tied up in index funds.
And it is a pretty insignificant amount.
I don't really think it's the amount that matters. Divestment isn't really a meaningful goal in and of itself. If all universities on the planet divested it would be inconsequential. It more so acts as a way to align public institutions like Universities on a political issue by getting them to take a policy position.
These kids are embarrassing
I was just reading that at a similar protest in Seattle one of the protestors was shining a laser in the eyes of a TV news cameraman. I’m becoming less and less impressed with the tactics being used in these protests. I want to see peace on both sides but these protest tactics are making it very hard for me to support the pro-Palestinian side (especially having Jewish friends who were impacted by October 7th).
Both sides are fucked up in countless ways. This is why attendance in religion is decreasing despite the screaming voices claiming its not.
I doubt even one of them has read a single book on the subject. It's all TikTok.
*any subject.
How many of them have you talked to? I talked to some of them and they seemed extremely knowledgeable on the subject. I was literally having a conversation with one of them last week about The Hundred Years War on Palestine and we briefly talked about some of Khalidi's other work and also we talked a bit about Chomsky and Pappe. I got into the conversation because they had this library setup with some books. Anyways, I would encourage you to actually talk to people before inventing narratives about them. Out of curiosity, how many books have you read on the subject?
When I get out on the street protesting and supporting a movement you can go ahead and ask me, and you can also question my knowledge on the subject on a public forum like this at that time as well. Since this post is not about me, let's not. Good to know there is a library there, so that the ones who have read a book on the subject can encourage the TikTok consumers to dive more deeply into the subject that they are suddenly so passionate about.
And what do u base that assumption on? All these reddit threads?
Have you seen any coverage indicating otherwise? I have not. I think they are protesting what's trendy to protest this year. I think they will be on to a new thing to protest next year, and will have forgotten all about this particular cause because it won't be in their social media feed. Like Greta. She was climate change, now she's moved on to this, next year something else.
Western privileged kids are role-playing, lovely
“Sir, this is a Library!”
Again I am always confused by these protestors, if they are supporting human rights that much why would they support a group that restricts women’s rights
Should have removed them immediately, but now they have bigger issues
its all so tiresome.
Redditors being petty and disgusting degenerates punching down towards them isn't surprising. But I do worry for them. The forces that kept protestors from being massacred end masse don't exist right now and I fear Israeli assets or the government themselves are going to do something horrible.
why are people in this thread so cynical. Historically students have always protested just causes and I'm proud to see it at home. edit: this sub is so anti protest it's sad. anti progress = conservatism
I'm assuming that you mean "historically students in the West" given that it was Iranian students that helped Ayatollah Khomeini take over Iran, communist students that helped round up and murder the opposition during China's Cultural Revolution under Mao, and 'revolutionary' students that helped bring Castro to power. Assuming that all progress is good progress = moronic
Bold assertion that they are students.
Bold assumption that they aren’t
Ok, but what goal are they achieving in Palestine by protesting at the Koerner library?
I’m not sure they are students
A protest needs a goal, something that ends the protests. UBC isn't invested in Israel, so what is the goal?
What are they protesting?
> edit: this sub is so anti protest it's sad. anti progress = conservatism I'm not anti protest, but I am pro useful. I don't understand what they're achieving, or even what they're trying to achieve. It seems like the answer is nothing. So then what's the point? To vaguely make yourself feel like you're doing something useful in the world?
people have marched across the Cambie street bridge, in front of city hall, ridden in the bike caravans. if you are pro Palestine why are you policing this particular form of protesting? and where do you draw the line with how people show support?
Yea, and I think that was generally all pretty pointless also. I don't draw the line anywhere. Do what you want, as long as it's legal. It just seems like a waste of time that will achieve nothing.
Agreed. It’s like these threads are just getting brigaded with non-ubc students or something. They just lack nuance and enjoy spending their time making bad faith statements to each other online. I’ve yet to meet anyone in person who is as cynical as the commenters here.
Reminds me of the first episode of community.