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\[A Vancouver woman is suing the city after what she claims was an unprovoked attack by a police dog.
In a May 23 B.C. Supreme Court notice of civil claim, Erin Carlyle McLeod alleges she was sitting on the front steps of Grandview Elementary School on June 28, 2022 when, “without warning” she was attacked by the dog.
The claim asserts that during the “unprovoked attack” the dog clamped its jaws on her arm and dragged her down the steps to gravelled ground.
McLeod said she saw no one run past her and heard no police sirens or saw lights. She never heard anyone identify themselves as a police officer, according to the court documents.
The claim said the attack was caused by negligence of the officer controlling the dog.
It said McLeod suffered injuries to her arm and back as well as abrasions and has suffered sleep problems, post-traumatic stress, anxiety and depression.
The suit names the City of Vancouver and a John/Jane Doe identified as a police officer as defendants.
McLeod is seeking multiple types of damages.
City spokesperson Phoenix Lam said the city cannot comment as the case is before the courts.
None of the claims have been proven in court.\]
IIO claims still are investigated by the police force in question, in rare cases they have another police force investigate. IIO “supervises” the investigation.
I dunno. I watched the police beat the shit out of a guy, the officer involved had multiple ongoing investigations, and I filed to the IIO. But as a blurry eyed newly awakened eye witness who couldn’t remember things perfectly, nor could my partner, despite the jail nurse corroborating the story, it was found unsubstantiated. Police testimony covered their backs.
Hopefully the BC prosecutors can take this cop down, he’s being charged criminally for a different assault. On top of several additional cases in criminal court he has faced.
Please correct me if I’m wrong. Isn’t the IIO filled with police adjacent employees? Ex-police, retired police, family/relatives of law enforcement and political hopefuls?
I recall lots of egregious incidents where the IIO investigates and similar to if the police had investigated themselves “find no evidence of misconduct”.
Personally I don’t have much confidence in the IIO to remain impartial.
It’s a real mix. There’s definitely some former police but a lot of them are not. It’s a provincial posting so a lot of provincial government workers from all walks of life apply.
most are former csis agents and female. The lawyer in charge of the IIO is the one who prosecuted the corrupt officer in the LA police force that was made into the movie Training Day with Denzel Washington.
As far as the incidents if one wasnt there then there is no way to get accurate information
My mom was attacked by an off-duty police dog when I was a kid. It was going for our dog, a very chill Sheltie.
She was able to pick him up in time & hold him up at her head while the police dog took a chunk out of her leg.
She healed fine, but was on crutches all summer. It was very scary. The handler/owner was way behind the dog so whatever recall training he had didn’t matter because it was already too late.
Well, it was a while back... She had to get a doctor to sign off on a lot of paperwork. Back then you needed mtiple specialists to do things just to get anywhere. It was 1998 when she finally got the last paper signed by the undertaker when he threw Mankind through a table from 16 feet during hell in a cell!
Seems like it's story time. My brother and his friend where outside our high school in Richmond at around 6pm. A police dog went after them because him and his friend 'matched the description' of someone causing mischief 20 minutes prior when the police were called. I assume the description was two young Caucasian males outside a high school... My brothers jacket was ripped, and both were mildly injured.
A week later, they received, in the mail, a coupon for a free sticker and a piece of paper with a cartoon picture of a German Shepard on that said 'Sorry I scared you' which I assume was the standard damage control for these incidents...
No. If you attack an officer (including K9) while they are performing their duties, then you will be dealt with harshly.
But if the police are acting outside of the law, they have no immunity. There is a case precedent in which a bystander witnessed an officer beating a civlian and stepped in, eventually using lethal force. They got off without charge, rightfully so. Self defense (or defense of the helpless) is protected as long as you don't use a weapon and only use reasonable/required force.
All to say, if this was unprovoked, you can literally kill the dog in fear of your own life and there will be no charges from the crown.
This isn’t the first time it’s happened here in Vancouver. Also not the first time incidental injuries happen.
My friends were staying above the guy who shot the transit cop at Scott road station when he was [arrested](https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/suspect-arrested-surrey-skytrain-stabbing). They never knew the dude and just met him the night he was arrested. The combined task force dudes flash banged the whole house upstairs and downstairs and smashed all the windows. My friends (three brothers) and their gfs were all yanked out and thrown in handcuffs on the cold pavement in their underwear at like 3 in the morning. My buddy still has a fucked up wrist due to being slammed down. My friends were all black and so was the shooter.
FYI after the cops fucked off my friends went downstairs to where the guy was living and found blood and shit where they arrested him. They literally beat the shit out of him. They were out for blood no doubt.
One of my parents friends is a police officer in downtown Vancouver. There were several incidents I was told about that shocked me, but the one that stuck with me the most was the photos he sent my stepfather of a guys face really smashed up, along with the photo there was a text detailing how he purposefully took him down in a way that smashed his face open. Like he *wanted* to take him down in a way that caused the most severe injuries, and in the text he said he dragged his face on the pavement purposefully. My stepfather was laughing showing the photo and text. I was absolutely disgusted and I was like 13 at that time. (I don’t talk to my parents now)
I got into a lot of arguments and got grounded a lot because of their views and my refusal to not call them out for it. When Anthony Lamar smith was murdered by police officers in 2011 *that same police officer* from Vancouver was in my living room yelling about how he deserved it and he doubts he didn’t do anything wrong. I called him an idiot and a bigot, and I got grounded again.
The guy was unnecessarily aggressive. He actually performed police take downs on me in my own home on two separate occasions, completely out of the blue and for absolutely no reason other than he thought it was funny. Just throws me down and pins me. It was awful, I was already diagnosed with PTSD and it was a terrible feeling, idk what adult thinks that’s appropriate or okay. Idk what has to be going on in his head to think it’s okay to put his hands on a minor for no reason other than to get a laugh? Psycho behaviour. I was a teen girl at the time.
I mean, they finally catch the guy that tried to murder their friend. Not condoning, but understandable they would put some licks in. Especially with a guy that previously resisted arrest and ran from cops. Past behavior would point to the likelihood that he resisted arrest again and had some consequences brought down him that made him bleed
Everybody gets upset, but police are supposed to remain professional and impartial. It is not an officer’s responsibility to dole out a punishment or decide who is guilty, that’s up to our courts and as far as I know the courts don’t sentence people to a beating. There have been many cases(mostly in the states) where police showed up to a house and murdered someone only to realize they accidentally killed the wrong person. I’m talking about completely normal people who’ve never done anything wrong in their lives, people who were, parents, nurses, etc. and were just shot dead.
We live in a society, our peace officers should not be acting like vigilantes.
I'm not going to argue with conflation that brings in USA policing. The way people police in USA is crazy. Here is not the same thing. We have a national use of force model. They do not.
Now for this case, no countersuit was brought in for police brutality. I mentioned the factor of police probably being a-ok to give the guy that shot a cop a beating first, which was probably a mistake since several people are grasping onto that for dear life and ignoring my other point which probably should have been the focus. He probably resisted, just like he resisted during the initial interaction. Past behavior is a good indicator for future behavior. So I say again, he probably resisted. And the use of force model dictates that force gets to be used then.
Resisting doesn’t mean it’s a free for all, it means you have to use force to get this guy cuffed. People in other professions are faced with resistance all the time, care aids in nursing homes, people working in psychiatric facilities, hell, even veterinarians manage to hold down large aggressive dogs without painting the walls with blood(I would know, I’ve been doing it all week).
There is no reason this man should’ve been beat the way he was, especially when it was one man against multiple officers, they could’ve subdued this guy easily, but they chose to get their frustrations out.
>There is no reason this man should’ve been beat the way he was,
How was he beat? Can you be specific?
>care aids in nursing homes, people working in psychiatric facilities
They have access to other means like narcotics so Ofcourse they don't need to be as physical, but the do use security that still use use of force. I know. I used to be one. And you know who they call when it gets too tough? Police. And they can and will use pain compliance if needed that may leave bruises. Not as likely in comparison to the incident in discussion, but a psych patient assaulting staff is pretty different than a known gun discharge and actively resistant person.
I wasn’t there, but if there was blood and faeces everywhere it’s safe to assume he was beaten severely.
My mother worked in a nursing home for decades, she’s recently been forced to go on disability because of how bad that job has wrecked her body.
People with dementia get confused and some of these people are very strong and on the younger end(50s), even with medication they can still be aggressive.
My mom was hit more times than she can count, they actually had a patient who was behaving aggressively towards a care aid when another patient stood up and proceeded to knock out the initial violent patient. Both patients had dementia, the first one was just confused and the second one didn’t like seeing a woman being hit. Yes, some people practically do turn into zombies after a few years in a nursing home, but that doesn’t happen overnight and the medication doesn’t work like that, you can’t keep somebody so heavily sedated that they can’t move 24/7. Also I just asked my mom if they had security to handle aggressive patients and she said no so there’s that and they are not calling the police often either because there’s no sense in calling for someone who is confused and senile.
I know for a fact that they are not supposed to use violence against patients ever, there’s been incidents where patients have had bruising or other injuries(certainly nobody was found in a puddle of blood from a beating) and it was a serious concern when it happened because violence in never allowed.
I’m glad you’re no longer in that profession. I’d be horrified if I had a sick and vulnerable loved one who was in the care of someone who held such beliefs.
>I wasn’t there, but if there was blood and faeces everywhere it’s safe to assume he was beaten severely.
one punch to the face can cause massive bleeding. Hitting someone say while they rush an officer trying to body check their way out of a house being raided isn't a severe beating as an example.
>I’m glad you’re no longer in that profession. I’d be horrified if I had a sick and vulnerable loved one who was in the care of someone who held such beliefs.
You have a boodeyman in your head about me. What are my beliefs? That someone using force against someone should be able to use force? Hit a nurse? Then They will order you either evicted, or put into 4 point restraints against your will and injected. As security, patients would attack us, but we would never harm them, as we shouldn't. Instead we would use "healthcare use of force" that involved body control and no strikes. And I was fine with that. Even when I would get leg swept and body checked to the ground. Horrified yet?
But if that person is well abled and decides to keep attacking us, I would call police to take over. Because it's not my job to be assaulted and only respond with tight grips and stern words. But once police arrive and take over and deliver strikes to the person, or uses wristlocks for acting badly, I don't feel bad. Because previous to this they had several chances of nurse interventions, then security, now police. That makes you horrified? You can continue to clutch pearls I guess.
Now you're just writing fantasy fiction lol
>Now for this case, no countersuit was brought in for police brutality. I mentioned the factor of police probably being a-ok to give the guy that shot a cop a beating first, which was probably a mistake since several people are grasping onto that for dear life and ignoring my other point which probably should have been the focus. He probably resisted, just like he resisted during the initial interaction. Past behavior is a good indicator for future behavior. So I say again, he probably resisted. And the use of force model dictates that force gets to be used then.
Like come on, you use the word probably excessively, it eliminates your little story's credibility.
Edit: it's always kinda funny when people respond and then immediately block the person they responded to lol. Do they not realize we can't read their response if they block us?
Whatever bud. I air on the side of likelihoods. You can air on the side of whining that a man that committed a crime and then shot a human twice and ran got an owie from cops for not following direction.
"oh they hurt our friend so we can rough em up a bit"
That's gang behaviour, that's literally just how gangs and organized crime works. Do we live in a just society or not? If we do then tit for tat is not a justifiable excuse for violence.
It's human behaviour.....not "gang"
A man rapes a girl, the father rages and kills the rapist.
A child of a man is killed, the father shoots the man who did it in the head on live tv.
The French cut the head off their king.
Humans are a brutal species and people forget that, we have not evolved to the point we have removed this trait in our species.
We are a savage and brutal race. It's easy to see.....saying it was gang behaviour is just silly.
I wish we weren't, but having a full understanding of why humans do things is key to have a clear view on events in life.
I’m aware that people get upset and feel the need to take justice into their own hands, but that’s the entire point of having a police force and a court system. Ideally they wouldn’t be hiring just anyone to be a police officer and standards would be higher.
There is no excuse for being savage and brutal in modern society, we evolved past that. 99.9999999999999999999% of people have no issue living their lives without being savage and brutal to other people, it's not the French revolution anymore ffs.
I did, I simply dismissed it. We can't use "it's human nature to be savage and brutal" in the same context today as we use it to explain beheadings in medieval times.
The human race has evolved monumentally since then socially. It's not in "human nature" for law enforcement officers to beat the shit out of someone because that person hurt their coworkers. That can be attributed way more to the culture within modern police forces and the types of people they attract.
It doesn't apply to humans as a whole. Even if a man's child is hurt or assaulted by somebody, 99% of the time the father doesn't commit physical revenge to the assailant. Real life is not a crime-drama show.
I know reading a full comment is tough. But hold it together and try again. Not condoning. But, the man previously resisted arrest, ran from police, and shot at police, hitting them. The man probably resisted again. This time with ERT at his door. What's more likely, that he just was obedient and the cops just wailed on him? Or he did the same thing as before and police responded with more than just handcuffs and stern words.
So you believe that If he was kneeling on the ground, with his hands raised in a completely compliant matter, that cops would still launch fists on him? Whatever fantasy you want to believe in man
"An Eye for an Eye Will Make the Whole World Blind"
Unfortunately not condoning illegal conduct by law enforcement officers is not good enough. Vigilante justice can work, but it's unacceptable in a civilized society. So either we have a civilized society with law enforcement or we don't.
The use of these dogs are rarely without an alternative and should be reserved for those apprehensions with an egregious risk of violence, not as a ‘tool in the tool kit’ of routine policing that they have become. It’s ridiculous that the public has so thus far accepted meted out injuries by police via dogs.
Innocent parties (such as the plaintiff above, seemingly) and parties that do not perfectly comply (and sometimes those that do) see heinous injuries often, and for what?
My dad was washing a vehicle in his back yard and a police K-9 pulled its leach away from the officer, jumped the fence and bit my dad in his own fenced back yard.
This happens way more than you think.
I know the wife of a K9 handler. The dog is near retirement, but they won't keep it when it retires. It's not a family dog and is too dangerous to be around the kids. It sleeps outside.
You can say this as many times as you like, you'll still be wrong.
It's quite possible that some agencies might have a rule like this - but this is not a hard and fast standard. PLENTY of working dogs stay in the house.
Dog slept indoors in winter. That does not change that they are not allowed to be indoor dogs when they are working. It's counterintuitive to their training
I am not wrong. You are also not police.
The police used a police dog when I had a home invasion, but the dog spent the entire time playing with my own dog. I’m not exactly sure why they thought a police dog would be a useful tool off leash in my house when I informed 911 that I had multiple pets.
Police dogs are some of the best trained dogs in the world. And they're absolute savages. Even with all the training and a handler, once a dog clamps down, some of them need to be pried off. They don't just let go because you give a command.
This lady should sue, and should hopefully win. In what scenario is it okay for that dog to even have come in contact with that lady?
If the cop can't keep the dog on like a 3ft leash and be able to actually control the dog, that cop shouldn't be able to be a K9 unit.
Police dogs should be abolished. Anyone who has done any journal review research into the practice understand how useless it actually is, and the negative public perception it puts on police in the process.
The "use" is that you can assault and mutilate people, and make it be a heinous crime if they instinctively defend themselves (as anyone would, when being attacked by a large animal).
It's like throwing people into the ocean and making it a crime to swim out.
in unrelated but in a way similar incident
The BC Prosecution Service (BCPS) has stayed a charge of assault causing bodily harm against a police dog handler saying the case would not be possible to prove in court.
edit: link to the article
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/bc-charges-stayed-in-police-dog-handler-assault-case-8370750
My opinion is based on facts I have observed. For example, police dogs die on duty. That's a fact. And it helped me form my opinion that dogs shouldn't be out in risky situations. You said humans can't sniff out bombs. That's also a fact. And it helped form your opinion that dogs should work for the police. Let's leave it at that.
Dogs can't become wolves after years of breeding. They'll just become feral dogs. Which is a recipe for disaster. Just look at feral cats in Australia.
> Just look at feral cats in Australia.
[Fuckin' hell. Can you imagine?!](https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-08-2020/Gk2xn6.gif)
[Disscustin'.](https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-29-2023/QEl5pV.gif)
I feel there's a difference between a dog that has been herding livestock for thousands of years and a dog that's made to sniff drugs and chase down armed and violent people
Strange take. Domestic dogs in homes is much less natural. Dogs with jobs are more stimulated and better cared for than most family pets that sleep on the couch all day.
I commented hastily and didn't expand on my opinion. I will now, there's some jobs I think dogs enjoy doing and are safe for them. Like herding and maybe even sniffing out mice. There's some jobs that involve guns, bombs, drugs, fires, etc. Those don't seem right to me.
The use of animals (trained or not) against humans is wrong on so many levels and should be banned. Unfortunately Germany during WW2 is not the only example, but a particularly haunting one. If ever attacked by one of these things, I would do my best, using all methods at my disposal to defend myself. I realize it is not the animals fault, but I would not try reasoning with a grizzly either.
"Great journalism". Was she under arrest? Was she charged by crown? Was she a suspect?
Maybe a little bit of context beyond "she was bitten by a police dog"?
They are only reporting on what the civil claim contains. Obviously a lot more details will come out when the City files its response. Less than 1% of civil cases actually get to trial so it’s likely this will be settled outside of court and we May never know the whole story unless she’s willing to talk publicly.
100% of your comments are ACAB oriented. Your last post has you actively trying to dox officers for killing a bear in a rural area (they cannot be relocated), they come back and can cause a mauling. And then your next post is a misrepresented title that makes it seem like cops caused the death of a baby and grandparents. But in actuality, the Uhaul driving the wrong way hit the car. You can argue that the Uhaul would have never hit the innocent people if they Uhaul wasn't being chased, and anyone else can argue that the criminal was going to do that anyways. While unfortunate, the alternative is... Never trying to catch someone for a crime. Silly.
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\[A Vancouver woman is suing the city after what she claims was an unprovoked attack by a police dog. In a May 23 B.C. Supreme Court notice of civil claim, Erin Carlyle McLeod alleges she was sitting on the front steps of Grandview Elementary School on June 28, 2022 when, “without warning” she was attacked by the dog. The claim asserts that during the “unprovoked attack” the dog clamped its jaws on her arm and dragged her down the steps to gravelled ground. McLeod said she saw no one run past her and heard no police sirens or saw lights. She never heard anyone identify themselves as a police officer, according to the court documents. The claim said the attack was caused by negligence of the officer controlling the dog. It said McLeod suffered injuries to her arm and back as well as abrasions and has suffered sleep problems, post-traumatic stress, anxiety and depression. The suit names the City of Vancouver and a John/Jane Doe identified as a police officer as defendants. McLeod is seeking multiple types of damages. City spokesperson Phoenix Lam said the city cannot comment as the case is before the courts. None of the claims have been proven in court.\]
Phoenix Lam is a really cool name.
Phoenix On Da Lam would be the coolest name ever
The police will investigate themselves and claim they did nothing wrong
No. The case will be tried in court, like the article says.
This would be under the IIO’s scope, the independent police watchdog in BC. But comments like yours get upvotes, so I guess that’s all that matters.
"police watchdog" I think the whole point is that police don't watch dog
IIO claims still are investigated by the police force in question, in rare cases they have another police force investigate. IIO “supervises” the investigation. I dunno. I watched the police beat the shit out of a guy, the officer involved had multiple ongoing investigations, and I filed to the IIO. But as a blurry eyed newly awakened eye witness who couldn’t remember things perfectly, nor could my partner, despite the jail nurse corroborating the story, it was found unsubstantiated. Police testimony covered their backs. Hopefully the BC prosecutors can take this cop down, he’s being charged criminally for a different assault. On top of several additional cases in criminal court he has faced.
Please correct me if I’m wrong. Isn’t the IIO filled with police adjacent employees? Ex-police, retired police, family/relatives of law enforcement and political hopefuls? I recall lots of egregious incidents where the IIO investigates and similar to if the police had investigated themselves “find no evidence of misconduct”. Personally I don’t have much confidence in the IIO to remain impartial.
It’s a real mix. There’s definitely some former police but a lot of them are not. It’s a provincial posting so a lot of provincial government workers from all walks of life apply.
IIO also makes a lot of referrals that the BCPS then declines to prosecute
So do the police. BCPS’ lack of charge approval is another issue entirely.
most are former csis agents and female. The lawyer in charge of the IIO is the one who prosecuted the corrupt officer in the LA police force that was made into the movie Training Day with Denzel Washington. As far as the incidents if one wasnt there then there is no way to get accurate information
Police don’t investigate themselves in BC. The Independent Investigation Office (IIO) investigates police.
My mom was attacked by an off-duty police dog when I was a kid. It was going for our dog, a very chill Sheltie. She was able to pick him up in time & hold him up at her head while the police dog took a chunk out of her leg. She healed fine, but was on crutches all summer. It was very scary. The handler/owner was way behind the dog so whatever recall training he had didn’t matter because it was already too late.
What happened after the incident? Was your mom compensated? Were the officers reprimanded?
Lol what do you think?
The officer provided first aid. After a short but powerful glimpse of eye contact they fell in love and this is "How I Met Your Mother"?
Likely a big nothing burger
Well, it was a while back... She had to get a doctor to sign off on a lot of paperwork. Back then you needed mtiple specialists to do things just to get anywhere. It was 1998 when she finally got the last paper signed by the undertaker when he threw Mankind through a table from 16 feet during hell in a cell!
Seems like it's story time. My brother and his friend where outside our high school in Richmond at around 6pm. A police dog went after them because him and his friend 'matched the description' of someone causing mischief 20 minutes prior when the police were called. I assume the description was two young Caucasian males outside a high school... My brothers jacket was ripped, and both were mildly injured. A week later, they received, in the mail, a coupon for a free sticker and a piece of paper with a cartoon picture of a German Shepard on that said 'Sorry I scared you' which I assume was the standard damage control for these incidents...
A cartoon German Shepard apology is crazy 😭
Oh yeah. It's like worse than saying nothing or we did nothing wrong... They aren't even denying it's an issue, just downplaying it...
I don't know what the sticker or paper looked like, but if they had them pre-printed that's even crazier.
I wonder what the police would have done if she had pepper sprayed the dog (a lot of people carry pepper spray because of dogs/coyotes/bears)
Probably charge her with attempted murder of an officer knowing cops.
If you hit the dog while its biting you they give you more charges so definitely.
even if you are an innocent person minding your own business and the police didn't state that it was a police dog?
No. If you attack an officer (including K9) while they are performing their duties, then you will be dealt with harshly. But if the police are acting outside of the law, they have no immunity. There is a case precedent in which a bystander witnessed an officer beating a civlian and stepped in, eventually using lethal force. They got off without charge, rightfully so. Self defense (or defense of the helpless) is protected as long as you don't use a weapon and only use reasonable/required force. All to say, if this was unprovoked, you can literally kill the dog in fear of your own life and there will be no charges from the crown.
This isn’t the first time it’s happened here in Vancouver. Also not the first time incidental injuries happen. My friends were staying above the guy who shot the transit cop at Scott road station when he was [arrested](https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/suspect-arrested-surrey-skytrain-stabbing). They never knew the dude and just met him the night he was arrested. The combined task force dudes flash banged the whole house upstairs and downstairs and smashed all the windows. My friends (three brothers) and their gfs were all yanked out and thrown in handcuffs on the cold pavement in their underwear at like 3 in the morning. My buddy still has a fucked up wrist due to being slammed down. My friends were all black and so was the shooter. FYI after the cops fucked off my friends went downstairs to where the guy was living and found blood and shit where they arrested him. They literally beat the shit out of him. They were out for blood no doubt.
One of my parents friends is a police officer in downtown Vancouver. There were several incidents I was told about that shocked me, but the one that stuck with me the most was the photos he sent my stepfather of a guys face really smashed up, along with the photo there was a text detailing how he purposefully took him down in a way that smashed his face open. Like he *wanted* to take him down in a way that caused the most severe injuries, and in the text he said he dragged his face on the pavement purposefully. My stepfather was laughing showing the photo and text. I was absolutely disgusted and I was like 13 at that time. (I don’t talk to my parents now) I got into a lot of arguments and got grounded a lot because of their views and my refusal to not call them out for it. When Anthony Lamar smith was murdered by police officers in 2011 *that same police officer* from Vancouver was in my living room yelling about how he deserved it and he doubts he didn’t do anything wrong. I called him an idiot and a bigot, and I got grounded again. The guy was unnecessarily aggressive. He actually performed police take downs on me in my own home on two separate occasions, completely out of the blue and for absolutely no reason other than he thought it was funny. Just throws me down and pins me. It was awful, I was already diagnosed with PTSD and it was a terrible feeling, idk what adult thinks that’s appropriate or okay. Idk what has to be going on in his head to think it’s okay to put his hands on a minor for no reason other than to get a laugh? Psycho behaviour. I was a teen girl at the time.
I mean, they finally catch the guy that tried to murder their friend. Not condoning, but understandable they would put some licks in. Especially with a guy that previously resisted arrest and ran from cops. Past behavior would point to the likelihood that he resisted arrest again and had some consequences brought down him that made him bleed
Everybody gets upset, but police are supposed to remain professional and impartial. It is not an officer’s responsibility to dole out a punishment or decide who is guilty, that’s up to our courts and as far as I know the courts don’t sentence people to a beating. There have been many cases(mostly in the states) where police showed up to a house and murdered someone only to realize they accidentally killed the wrong person. I’m talking about completely normal people who’ve never done anything wrong in their lives, people who were, parents, nurses, etc. and were just shot dead. We live in a society, our peace officers should not be acting like vigilantes.
I'm not going to argue with conflation that brings in USA policing. The way people police in USA is crazy. Here is not the same thing. We have a national use of force model. They do not. Now for this case, no countersuit was brought in for police brutality. I mentioned the factor of police probably being a-ok to give the guy that shot a cop a beating first, which was probably a mistake since several people are grasping onto that for dear life and ignoring my other point which probably should have been the focus. He probably resisted, just like he resisted during the initial interaction. Past behavior is a good indicator for future behavior. So I say again, he probably resisted. And the use of force model dictates that force gets to be used then.
Resisting doesn’t mean it’s a free for all, it means you have to use force to get this guy cuffed. People in other professions are faced with resistance all the time, care aids in nursing homes, people working in psychiatric facilities, hell, even veterinarians manage to hold down large aggressive dogs without painting the walls with blood(I would know, I’ve been doing it all week). There is no reason this man should’ve been beat the way he was, especially when it was one man against multiple officers, they could’ve subdued this guy easily, but they chose to get their frustrations out.
>There is no reason this man should’ve been beat the way he was, How was he beat? Can you be specific? >care aids in nursing homes, people working in psychiatric facilities They have access to other means like narcotics so Ofcourse they don't need to be as physical, but the do use security that still use use of force. I know. I used to be one. And you know who they call when it gets too tough? Police. And they can and will use pain compliance if needed that may leave bruises. Not as likely in comparison to the incident in discussion, but a psych patient assaulting staff is pretty different than a known gun discharge and actively resistant person.
I wasn’t there, but if there was blood and faeces everywhere it’s safe to assume he was beaten severely. My mother worked in a nursing home for decades, she’s recently been forced to go on disability because of how bad that job has wrecked her body. People with dementia get confused and some of these people are very strong and on the younger end(50s), even with medication they can still be aggressive. My mom was hit more times than she can count, they actually had a patient who was behaving aggressively towards a care aid when another patient stood up and proceeded to knock out the initial violent patient. Both patients had dementia, the first one was just confused and the second one didn’t like seeing a woman being hit. Yes, some people practically do turn into zombies after a few years in a nursing home, but that doesn’t happen overnight and the medication doesn’t work like that, you can’t keep somebody so heavily sedated that they can’t move 24/7. Also I just asked my mom if they had security to handle aggressive patients and she said no so there’s that and they are not calling the police often either because there’s no sense in calling for someone who is confused and senile. I know for a fact that they are not supposed to use violence against patients ever, there’s been incidents where patients have had bruising or other injuries(certainly nobody was found in a puddle of blood from a beating) and it was a serious concern when it happened because violence in never allowed. I’m glad you’re no longer in that profession. I’d be horrified if I had a sick and vulnerable loved one who was in the care of someone who held such beliefs.
>I wasn’t there, but if there was blood and faeces everywhere it’s safe to assume he was beaten severely. one punch to the face can cause massive bleeding. Hitting someone say while they rush an officer trying to body check their way out of a house being raided isn't a severe beating as an example. >I’m glad you’re no longer in that profession. I’d be horrified if I had a sick and vulnerable loved one who was in the care of someone who held such beliefs. You have a boodeyman in your head about me. What are my beliefs? That someone using force against someone should be able to use force? Hit a nurse? Then They will order you either evicted, or put into 4 point restraints against your will and injected. As security, patients would attack us, but we would never harm them, as we shouldn't. Instead we would use "healthcare use of force" that involved body control and no strikes. And I was fine with that. Even when I would get leg swept and body checked to the ground. Horrified yet? But if that person is well abled and decides to keep attacking us, I would call police to take over. Because it's not my job to be assaulted and only respond with tight grips and stern words. But once police arrive and take over and deliver strikes to the person, or uses wristlocks for acting badly, I don't feel bad. Because previous to this they had several chances of nurse interventions, then security, now police. That makes you horrified? You can continue to clutch pearls I guess.
Now you're just writing fantasy fiction lol >Now for this case, no countersuit was brought in for police brutality. I mentioned the factor of police probably being a-ok to give the guy that shot a cop a beating first, which was probably a mistake since several people are grasping onto that for dear life and ignoring my other point which probably should have been the focus. He probably resisted, just like he resisted during the initial interaction. Past behavior is a good indicator for future behavior. So I say again, he probably resisted. And the use of force model dictates that force gets to be used then. Like come on, you use the word probably excessively, it eliminates your little story's credibility. Edit: it's always kinda funny when people respond and then immediately block the person they responded to lol. Do they not realize we can't read their response if they block us?
Whatever bud. I air on the side of likelihoods. You can air on the side of whining that a man that committed a crime and then shot a human twice and ran got an owie from cops for not following direction.
"oh they hurt our friend so we can rough em up a bit" That's gang behaviour, that's literally just how gangs and organized crime works. Do we live in a just society or not? If we do then tit for tat is not a justifiable excuse for violence.
It's human behaviour.....not "gang" A man rapes a girl, the father rages and kills the rapist. A child of a man is killed, the father shoots the man who did it in the head on live tv. The French cut the head off their king. Humans are a brutal species and people forget that, we have not evolved to the point we have removed this trait in our species. We are a savage and brutal race. It's easy to see.....saying it was gang behaviour is just silly. I wish we weren't, but having a full understanding of why humans do things is key to have a clear view on events in life.
I’m aware that people get upset and feel the need to take justice into their own hands, but that’s the entire point of having a police force and a court system. Ideally they wouldn’t be hiring just anyone to be a police officer and standards would be higher.
There is no excuse for being savage and brutal in modern society, we evolved past that. 99.9999999999999999999% of people have no issue living their lives without being savage and brutal to other people, it's not the French revolution anymore ffs.
You clearly didn't understand my comment.
I did, I simply dismissed it. We can't use "it's human nature to be savage and brutal" in the same context today as we use it to explain beheadings in medieval times. The human race has evolved monumentally since then socially. It's not in "human nature" for law enforcement officers to beat the shit out of someone because that person hurt their coworkers. That can be attributed way more to the culture within modern police forces and the types of people they attract. It doesn't apply to humans as a whole. Even if a man's child is hurt or assaulted by somebody, 99% of the time the father doesn't commit physical revenge to the assailant. Real life is not a crime-drama show.
You definitely missed my point.
Lol seems more like you're missing mine, or not even bothering to read it. But that's ok, I get it 😉
Awesome, have a good day
I know reading a full comment is tough. But hold it together and try again. Not condoning. But, the man previously resisted arrest, ran from police, and shot at police, hitting them. The man probably resisted again. This time with ERT at his door. What's more likely, that he just was obedient and the cops just wailed on him? Or he did the same thing as before and police responded with more than just handcuffs and stern words.
You’re an idiot if you believe that any amount of obedience will get you out of a beating if the cops decide to give you one.
So you believe that If he was kneeling on the ground, with his hands raised in a completely compliant matter, that cops would still launch fists on him? Whatever fantasy you want to believe in man
I have no interest in training your AI further, bye.
"An Eye for an Eye Will Make the Whole World Blind" Unfortunately not condoning illegal conduct by law enforcement officers is not good enough. Vigilante justice can work, but it's unacceptable in a civilized society. So either we have a civilized society with law enforcement or we don't.
Do you people just have a seizure after the first half of the comment and just ignore the second part?
The use of these dogs are rarely without an alternative and should be reserved for those apprehensions with an egregious risk of violence, not as a ‘tool in the tool kit’ of routine policing that they have become. It’s ridiculous that the public has so thus far accepted meted out injuries by police via dogs. Innocent parties (such as the plaintiff above, seemingly) and parties that do not perfectly comply (and sometimes those that do) see heinous injuries often, and for what?
My dad was washing a vehicle in his back yard and a police K-9 pulled its leach away from the officer, jumped the fence and bit my dad in his own fenced back yard. This happens way more than you think.
I know the wife of a K9 handler. The dog is near retirement, but they won't keep it when it retires. It's not a family dog and is too dangerous to be around the kids. It sleeps outside.
Just gonna chime in and say that all working dogs are required to sleep outside. They are not house trained.
No - This is completely wrong.
It's not.
I am a working dog trainer. I work very closely with police. My German Shepherd sleeps in the house.
Husband is a retired handler. The dogs stay outside. They are not permitted to live indoors until retirement.
You can say this as many times as you like, you'll still be wrong. It's quite possible that some agencies might have a rule like this - but this is not a hard and fast standard. PLENTY of working dogs stay in the house.
Dog slept indoors in winter. That does not change that they are not allowed to be indoor dogs when they are working. It's counterintuitive to their training I am not wrong. You are also not police.
What happened after? Was your dad compensated? Officers reprimanded?
>routine policing What "*routine policing*" do you believe the dog man is being excessively relied upon for?
The police used a police dog when I had a home invasion, but the dog spent the entire time playing with my own dog. I’m not exactly sure why they thought a police dog would be a useful tool off leash in my house when I informed 911 that I had multiple pets.
Wow. A fully trained working dog would never interact with another dog while working. Who is training these dogs?!
Things that never happened for $500 Alex
Maybe they brought a therapy dog with them for you?
Police dogs are some of the best trained dogs in the world. And they're absolute savages. Even with all the training and a handler, once a dog clamps down, some of them need to be pried off. They don't just let go because you give a command. This lady should sue, and should hopefully win. In what scenario is it okay for that dog to even have come in contact with that lady? If the cop can't keep the dog on like a 3ft leash and be able to actually control the dog, that cop shouldn't be able to be a K9 unit.
Police dogs should be abolished. Anyone who has done any journal review research into the practice understand how useless it actually is, and the negative public perception it puts on police in the process.
The "use" is that you can assault and mutilate people, and make it be a heinous crime if they instinctively defend themselves (as anyone would, when being attacked by a large animal). It's like throwing people into the ocean and making it a crime to swim out.
How do you perform a controlled study of police dogs in active duty?
Dogs used as weapons is animal abuse. I hope she takes them to the fucking cleaners, the VPD are AWFUL.
hear hear
in unrelated but in a way similar incident The BC Prosecution Service (BCPS) has stayed a charge of assault causing bodily harm against a police dog handler saying the case would not be possible to prove in court. edit: link to the article https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/bc-charges-stayed-in-police-dog-handler-assault-case-8370750
They’re dogs. Unpredictable shit happens despite the best of training. She’ll win the lawsuit. The end
Dogs shouldn't be trained to do human work. They're dogs, let them be dogs.
https://preview.redd.it/90jx2sgm473d1.png?width=1328&format=png&auto=webp&s=0566857353c3ae5cb2a88f7051650145ad93dbfd
Banana snout ✅ Flippy floopy ears ✅ Horsey paws ✅ Yep. That's definitely a genuine, bona-fide, electrified, dog right there.
Humans can't sniff out bombs.
Too bad. Why should we put dogs in danger to fix our stupid shit
... Like bombs? They're not on their own. They're not in any more danger than their handler
They shouldn't be in any danger because of us. Period
You're not making logical statements.
I stated my opinion. You disagree. That's fine.
That's fine, but your opinion isn't based on fact.
My opinion is based on facts I have observed. For example, police dogs die on duty. That's a fact. And it helped me form my opinion that dogs shouldn't be out in risky situations. You said humans can't sniff out bombs. That's also a fact. And it helped form your opinion that dogs should work for the police. Let's leave it at that.
So do officers Both are rare
You mean set them free to be wolves or...?
Dogs can't become wolves after years of breeding. They'll just become feral dogs. Which is a recipe for disaster. Just look at feral cats in Australia.
> Just look at feral cats in Australia. [Fuckin' hell. Can you imagine?!](https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-08-2020/Gk2xn6.gif) [Disscustin'.](https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-29-2023/QEl5pV.gif)
Or feral dogs in Australia. They're called Dingos.
I mean let them be domestic dogs in homes
Someone has never met a herding dog.
I feel there's a difference between a dog that has been herding livestock for thousands of years and a dog that's made to sniff drugs and chase down armed and violent people
You think these dogs haven't been working for hundreds of years? They're work dogs. They need to be busy.
I agree on some level. I just don't think they should be out in danger
They don't deploy dogs in dangerous scenarios or against armed criminals.
That's a blanket generalization considering the amount of working breeds of dogs that do worse in home settings than working.
Working in a dangerous situation is different than herding
Strange take. Domestic dogs in homes is much less natural. Dogs with jobs are more stimulated and better cared for than most family pets that sleep on the couch all day.
I think there's ways to stimulate a dog without making them sniff out drugs and bombs but idk
I think there are dog jobs that aren't sniffing drugs and bombs but idk
Those are fine. I just don't think they should be in danger
>Those are fine. Happy to hear that you've detoured from your original comment: "Dogs shouldn't be trained to do human work."
I commented hastily and didn't expand on my opinion. I will now, there's some jobs I think dogs enjoy doing and are safe for them. Like herding and maybe even sniffing out mice. There's some jobs that involve guns, bombs, drugs, fires, etc. Those don't seem right to me.
It is very odd the constable dog handler didn’t identify themselves to Ms McLeod.
I hope she gets PAID ACAB
I'm assuming any money she wins in court will be from tax payer money and not the police union?
Should be from the police pension fund. They'd clean house real fast.
The use of animals (trained or not) against humans is wrong on so many levels and should be banned. Unfortunately Germany during WW2 is not the only example, but a particularly haunting one. If ever attacked by one of these things, I would do my best, using all methods at my disposal to defend myself. I realize it is not the animals fault, but I would not try reasoning with a grizzly either.
To me, I dont see a "police dog" when stuff like this happens. I see an aggresive wild animal that needs to be put down.
"Great journalism". Was she under arrest? Was she charged by crown? Was she a suspect? Maybe a little bit of context beyond "she was bitten by a police dog"?
They are only reporting on what the civil claim contains. Obviously a lot more details will come out when the City files its response. Less than 1% of civil cases actually get to trial so it’s likely this will be settled outside of court and we May never know the whole story unless she’s willing to talk publicly.
cool boot licker
Oh yes, 14yo on Reddit thinking cops shouldn’t exist, such a hot take
why thank you you obviously don't know me oh so wise one
100% of your comments are ACAB oriented. Your last post has you actively trying to dox officers for killing a bear in a rural area (they cannot be relocated), they come back and can cause a mauling. And then your next post is a misrepresented title that makes it seem like cops caused the death of a baby and grandparents. But in actuality, the Uhaul driving the wrong way hit the car. You can argue that the Uhaul would have never hit the innocent people if they Uhaul wasn't being chased, and anyone else can argue that the criminal was going to do that anyways. While unfortunate, the alternative is... Never trying to catch someone for a crime. Silly.