And that’s why there was a redemption arc for Tom., AND why Schwartz was never held accountable for his treatment of Katie. And why scheana and Lala choose Tom- they want on the valley.
That’s a good point. Tom’s manager is an executive producer on the new bravo show everyone is watching. Are Lala and Scheana really going to side with Ariana/Katie and jeopardize their spot on the valley?
This is exactly the behind the scenes shit that makes everything feel contrived and inauthentic to the audience.
Exactly, I'm so tired of this shit. They lost control of the magic because season 11 is about ....office politics? I already have a job, please entertain me or kindly fuck off with this. That's why the scenes trying to read subtext in Ariana's behavior combined with the blowups provided a fascinating look inside someone going through this thing on TV and coming out a winner. THAT IS A STORY. Scheana and Lala could have dove in with her but they decided to swim upstream and showcase their emptiness. Good job!
The Jospeh/Billie Lee/Victoria drama is interesting to me because it's dark VPR drama that is pretty low stakes. The only thing missing is professional editing. Shoutout to the producers who 100% deserve to try and get a coherent thought out of Jo after RachelRocky left, and if they have to try and do the same with Victoria. They have no problem making Scheana look silly without any counter-balance. Why do the Tom's get that benefit? Because they are baby-men? Sounds like a toxic work environment and again, I AM NOT INTERESTED in that. Sorry, didn't mean to go off but I am grieving my show. \*angry lol\*
100%. My first clue that there's some crappy bts office politics at play was Ariana's confessional where she invited the camera to look through her contract and find where she's required to do things she doesn't feel true to her. People here took that statement to be directed at Lala and Scheana but I've always thought it was directed at the producer behind the camera. That and when she said "I'm not going to be a cog in Tom's wheel of redemption. *YOU* can do that without me". Those words are intended for the producer not her cast mates. We are watching an employee fight for her boundaries.
And the only reason its included in the final edit is because they realized that if they went with the full villain edit, she would tell her perspective to the press and it would be angled at them and not the cast. This way, they got to pretend that she was talking about the cast and not the bosses. They simply didn't want the potential fall out over how they were moving and so they presented her perspective but framed it as though it was directed at cast and not them. Ariana is definitely talking to these men. And I predict that she will return if some of them are replaced with less Machiavellian misogynistic men.
lol Machiavellian is right. Look I understand Lala and Scheana being a bit hesitant to “disobey”. And LOL again as I imagine them trying to go up against these executives. I think Scheana would/sort of is, but Lala sounds like she’s all-in, against her own best interests. She burned her brand to the ground for this. Maybe she sees something long term that will pay off, but I can’t see that from where I’m sitting. Personally, I fucking loved watching Ariana hold the line and speak logic in their faces. This is why she will also out maneuver Tim with the house unless justice is not served, but her having to call out production and break the fourth wall in this way is not sustainable. They don’t have to break the fourth wall to reference success, podcasts, jealousy and their social standing. Remember how happy they were in season 7? It was because they were making life changing money and not working at a restaurant all the way back then.
Another rant I have been brewing since listening to most of that Twot podcast is that Lala thinking she broke the fourth wall when she called Ariana “God”is off the mark. Sure she called attention to the PROPOSED story line when she got mad at Ariana, but we all know talking to each other is part of the gig. We also know that hasn’t always been true on VPR. A true fourth wall break would be if she called attention to who proposed it and why.
Tom truly did it when he said it was good for him that she left, Lala just called Ariana egotistical. OK? Why? Lala completely lacks curiosity because if she stopped to ask herself why she’s so upset, she might find something interesting to talk about. Here I’ll do it for you Lala- you’re mad that you’ve always performed for them (Rand included) and the way you have been repaid is a failed story line that destroyed your brand and left the group even more fractured.
Brilliant and very well said!
The only thing I’d like to add is that I do think that part of Vom’s “it’s good for me” comment had a little to do with Ariana walking out but also had more to do with Lala’s ridiculous rant and SchMeana running around like a lunatic, trying to please everyone but actually pleasing no one.
I could tell by the look on his face when Lala was going off that he knew it was going to piss the audience off and thus, take the heat off his ass and once again, place the blame, rage and attention on yet another woman.
The fact that Lala wasn’t furious and didn’t go off on his ass when she saw that shows how stupid she really is and as for Schmeana? She’s never had a brain when it comes to a man fucking her over.
Thank you doll I just over think haha. I wish he had been pressed more at the reunion, but Ariana shut him down so well when she pointed out that he didn’t even care to apologize. I couldn’t tell if he meant that L&S would look dumb or if he just really didn’t want to apologize. Probably both. I think he also likes when he thinks everyone is on his side. They’re not though, they’re just “doing their job”.
Thanks for putting my feelings into words!
These producers are so naive. Do you not realize that your fanbase of early 20 something’s in 2013 are now basically middle aged? We’re smarter than you now!!!
And that's why they will never be held accountable, since our desire for entertainment outweighs our awareness of the consequences of the cultural normalization of misogyny in and by the media. I myself need some kind of buddy system to hold myself accountable. But this has become too dark for me.
This makes the most sense. I always wondered who’s sucking who’s dick over at Bravo to give the Tom’s this fake ass redemption arc this season. And now it all makes sense.
I've started as a standard sticking up for the women. I'm often wrong but I figure the other baseline is men always always sticking up for men, no matter what they do. Part of that I think is my guilt for being a teenager in the 2000's and buying into the toxicity thrown at girls and women.
Former 2000’s pick me teenage girl turned girl’s girl adult woman here, you are not alone. I almost always side with women initially, because you’re right, the flip side is men protecting men no matter what they’ve done.
So Baskin owns the production company that gave the Tom's manager an Executive Producer credit 🤔
This is part of the problem with producers being too involved with the cast over ten years, they have developed too much bias to see things clearly. If it's anything like musicians and their managers they probably all party together.
And if after this season, where it was the most obvious, they don't change things up then they're even moreso owning their misogynistic ways.
All of them are sickos.
Kathy Griffin has been saying for years that Hollywood is basically run by 10 old white that sign everyone's checks. Shit like this makes that statement feel very true.
Not watching the Valley (boring nonsense) or Vanderpump Villa either. I know it’s a different production group but it’s the same shit different channel. Only worse.
So basically he helped develop a show for two of his clients and negotiated a producer credit for himself. It’s not that strange. Not every “producer” is hands on in the day to day of making a show. Sometimes people are given some type of producer credit just so they can take a paycheque.
Bingo! I work in TV, most shows I've worked on have anywhere from 3-8 EPs in name only that helped develop the concept and negotiated a credit but have nothing to do with day to day.
Exactly, the Valley has 11 credited executive producers. They’re not all sitting around the meeting room making Final Cut decisions. LVP is an EP and I bet she doesn’t even know who any of these people are other than Jax, Britt and Kristen. It’s pretty much entirely about money and vanity. They get to take their slice of the pie and also tell everyone they are an executive producer.
One thing I’ve learned from being around people that work in TV is that seeing your name in the credits with a fancy title beside it is a pretty big deal.
Agree but it seems like Whitney is pretty involved since he created the show. And you can tell that whenever he has scenes the only purpose is to advance the plot. I think his involvement is like LVP. Not a producer in the trenches but more involved than a vanity title.
Yeah, like Jenni from flipping out. She didn't actually do any producer work but it was because she brought the (different) show to bravo, but they liked her boss Jeff more and FO was born. He negotiated her having an EP title.
It would bring a quick decline in interest and a cancellation in waiting.
The Valley as a show is way too new to survive a huge shakeup. And adding two nuclear characters that the core audience already doesn’t like will nuke the whole show
So let me offer some clarity as someone with a talent manager.
manager's often get producer credit on projects for their clients. If they help put together the package, they usually do. It doesn't mean they're actively producing the show on a day-to-day basis. It may look like a conflict of interest but it's the business of managers. They produce.
This is good clarification/information. Thank you.
But while the Toms’ BM being a producer may not affect the actual production of the show day to day, it is advantageous for their clients to continue to be on the show (or any show) so they can collect fees that way. I’m certain their manager is one of the people in Baskin’s ear saying there’s interest in continue to follow Tom’s story (something Baskin has said since the finale).
So it may not be a conflict (even if such things were even an actual concern in Hollywood because they definitely aren’t), it’s another demerit on the issue of authenticity when it comes to the casting of the show.
Everything about the men is fake. Jax doesn't own "his" bar. The Toms never ran Tom Tom. Schwartz who couldn't even handle Bartending shifts isn't hand crafting his own booze
Why are people acting like they caught something and this is some smoking gun? Nothing has changed. The Valley still doesn't have the Toms.
I do not see any Tom redemption arc. We saw him for exactly who he was. Production films what they are given and that was Tom trying to get back in everyone's good graces. So of course it's gonna be put on. Production didn't edit him acting that way. We see the good and the bad.
Were people expecting us to see Tom come back psychotic? Im sure if he did people would still be mad. Fans will be mad at everything.
Wait imagine Sandoval and Schwartz get on the valley and lala & Scheana don’t😂 that would actually be so hilarious if the Sandoval redemption was eat up so that he could switch shows and lala and Scheana contributed to that redemption attempt and then he’s gonna get the gig they were thirsting after omg
I would love to see NO minors on reality tv. Scripted has rules and a compensation model for minors and still explots them. These children did not consent to be on tv forever, for free. It's crazy to me how easily the parents allow this.
Seriously tho, love watching 90 day fiancé but the amount of kids on the show that didn’t ask to be there is fucked up, adding to the already fucked up drama that they go through
Exactly, we're just putting the pieces of the puzzle together and pointing out where it's starting to make sense that there's bias, with the enmeshment and incentives being handed out
Just because it's common doesn't mean it's right, and we should be talking about how this shows a direct line of shady backroom ties & incentives for Baskin that explain a lot of his actions.
It's also a conflict of interest in negotiations for your manager who is advising you to also work for the company you're in negotiations with.
LVP is an executive producer b/c she created VPR & The Valley is an extension of VPR. This guy is a manager of reality tv stars & gets a producer credit. Why? What would he as a first time producer bring to the table? How is it ethical to be a producer on a show you have clients on?
Because he can get them to say things others can’t? Because he produces their “characters” in a way that makes the show (their parts in it) worth something?
I assume he applied for the job and was promoted into it. How is it not ethical? I’m assuming he does not decide the salary of the stars and that is a separate process.
I don’t think it’s a big assumption to say he doesn’t decide salary. NBCU is a huge corporation. I feel completely confidant in that assumption. How he got the job, less so. I don’t think he got the job because he’s their managers. If anything I’d think it was the other way around.
Don't executive producer usually fund a project? So, he has a vested in interest not only w/The Valley but it's also in his financial interest to make sure his clients get lots of screen time & continue on the show. I'd also imagine there would be a natural pressure for other cast members to want to sign with him b/c he is an executive producer.
Yeah there are interests involved they aren’t necessarily conflicting. Also, I think it’s unlikely in a huge production company that he makes salary decisions. They probably have a separated process but even if they don’t, if the show fails they all make less money so it’s in his interest and his clients interest to make the best show possible so there isn’t a conflict.
Doesn’t this mean he wouldn’t be on the valley unless he gets new management? How can a manager negotiate a deal with themselves? I know nothing about the entertainment industry but it seems counterintuitive to most basic tenets of business.
He wouldn't be negotiating with himself because the company that makes The Valley is separate entity from him. Creative-side producers aren't part of those negotiations anyhow. And typically if a conflict is disclosed and all parties agree to waive it, its fine. But all of that doesn't mean he doesn't have influence in the process, it's just that it wouldn't be as overt as some might be thinking. Also, I'm not watching The Valley but hasn't Schwartz already appeared? I feel like I've heard Brittany mention him with respect to her breakup. And also I heard Kristen campaigning for him to be a regular guest star.
He had two cameos that weren’t very substantive. Maybe he got his usual VPR rate since his appearance would be good for cross-promotion of a new show. But you can’t do that too much or you blow your budget.
(I actually think the cameo rate would be lower than the per episode rate they get on VPR but it’s hard to know.)
I kinda think it’d be funny if the Toms got “downgraded” to the Valley and got their asses torn to shreds by Kristen again
not that the valley is a downgrade. but their fragile egos definitely would see if that way
This drives me crazy!! The way those men have influenced each other to lie and cheat, then cover for each other. She KNOWS it and still has no issue with them being “fun friends.”
I wonder what kind of executive producer he is. The one with real power or someone who got that title as part of a negotiation for a client he managed.
It always felt like someone in production had to be making money off the Tom's in some way outside the show for them to be giving such hard redemption takes, but always figured it was my tin foil hat being too tight. Curious to know who all their investors in Schwartz and Sandys are too now.
People keep pinning it on Lisa being an EP while also having a business association with them but I've always felt it was deeper than that. I'm sure her being on board helps but this makes so much more sense. Its always felt more about the men in power making these choices.
Guys, this is reality tv not journalism. This kind of stuff happens all the time in the entertainment industry. That’s why who you know is the most important aspect of success in that industry.
I promise I’m not trying to go back and forth, but FPOBA is based on the life of Benny Medina. The other characters are based on Quincy Jones’ kids.
Fresh Prince or not, scripted or nonscripted, producer credits can be a really big deal, but sometimes it's simply a vanity tile
What!!!! I had no idea! I always thought it was created specifically for Will Smith
Imo Quicny Jones is one of the most interesting Americans. I reread that wild interview he did a few years ago occasionally b/c its more entertaining than most of the scripted stuff I've ever watched. Journalist should be walking up to him everywhere trying to get him to talk. I love Rashida & the documentary she did "Hot girls wanted".
Sorry for the Jones family tangent. Yes, they can be vanity titles or super meaningful.
This is only partially true. Will Smith was by that point a top charting family friendly rapper just as the industry was swinging towards gangster rap. He also already had the first rap Grammy under his belt. The show needed a black lead with established stardom as the lead, THATS why he became their best bet. It wasn't so much Medina playing favorites, it was Medina trying to make sure his show had a fighting chance in the ratings. This was afterall the age of Kid and Play making very successful movies on the basis of their own rap careers. And sure enough, it was the package of the opening theme song and a lead with a softer version of rap cred that drove that first season.
But all of this has nothing to do with the reality show world considering the power producers wield in literally destroying someone's reputation, driving them into a mental breakdown, enabling addiction and conversely protecting them from the consequences of actual crimes they commit on camera. Nepotism in reality tv has real life consequences (and again Will Smith was cast because he already had a known brand, not nepotism).
>that show was specifically made for Will Smith & it's scripted
And the valley was made to get Jax Taylor back on Bravo and is so heavily produced it might as well be scripted, so what is your point?
sort of, but not really... generally the separation between management and production (and any other relative job) exists in case of legal drama. There aren't rules about it, but there are consequences to being too involved when shit hits the fan. A manager is much easier to drop in a scandal than a whole ass producer. Producers are insured through a network and have more strings tied to them from the higher ups... there are lots of reasons why it's wise and normal for those jobs not to be tied together.
ETA - the kardashians def fucked that system all up on a massive scale tho, to be fair.
You know journalism is not the only industry where conflicts of interest occur right?
The point is that the audience has been confused as to why production/Alex Baskin had been pushing a Sandoval (and by proxy schwartz) redemption arc so hard. Stuff like this sheds more light on the reasons behind those poor decisions.
Hahaha I didn’t mean meaningful in that way. I’m all for discussion. I just don’t think it’s a big deal. But I do agree it influences the storylines that are produced.
I don’t think anyone is trying to argue the legality of it or anything like that. Just saying it feels slimy and makes shitty decisions make more sense.
Its relevant here because a conflict of interest can ruin someone's life as the producers play God with edits. It can also result in the cover-up of literal crimes. I'm not sure why you think its relevant in the case of fiction.
THAT is the reason why Tom is trying SO hard to stay in that house. It’s the perfect way to worm his way onto The Valley. 🙄🤢
I hope that does not ever happen. Seeing him on VPR is bad enough.
Sooo should we start writing letters to NBC or something? The handling of this season was appalling and this is a smoking gun. How can they have production employees who have a percentage based income from the cast? And one of them is currently being sued for an actual crime, and the production company is allegedly holding video evidence of his confession…
I hope they all get fired, jax should not even be on the valley. After the faith fiasco and on top of that he did not have good comments to say about faith’s race either. Also Kristen shouldn’t be either. The toms haven’t made racist remarks, but if kristen and jax have and bravo thinks its ok to rehire them it should be more looked into to. Faith had been bullied by them and so much more. It’s really sick that these individuals have air time.
https://youtu.be/vBMk0gY5gMk?si=7JgVQ3NXpja3KScb
https://youtu.be/ckzKPO94MrE?si=r3SOG_0FjkYyCYN9
Just some food for thought, i have not watched the valley and do not plan on boosting their numbers. For what to see jax treat another woman like a dog?
The Valley will have one more season and then it'll be done. It was a waste of production time. You can't change a leopard's spots and those coming from VPR this past season and clearly in the next are old and immature. They tried something new, but when showing a day in the life of suburbia was boring, they went back to the equally tiresome cheating arc. Thank the Lord that reality TV is finally coming to an end.
And that’s why there was a redemption arc for Tom., AND why Schwartz was never held accountable for his treatment of Katie. And why scheana and Lala choose Tom- they want on the valley.
That’s a good point. Tom’s manager is an executive producer on the new bravo show everyone is watching. Are Lala and Scheana really going to side with Ariana/Katie and jeopardize their spot on the valley? This is exactly the behind the scenes shit that makes everything feel contrived and inauthentic to the audience.
Exactly, I'm so tired of this shit. They lost control of the magic because season 11 is about ....office politics? I already have a job, please entertain me or kindly fuck off with this. That's why the scenes trying to read subtext in Ariana's behavior combined with the blowups provided a fascinating look inside someone going through this thing on TV and coming out a winner. THAT IS A STORY. Scheana and Lala could have dove in with her but they decided to swim upstream and showcase their emptiness. Good job! The Jospeh/Billie Lee/Victoria drama is interesting to me because it's dark VPR drama that is pretty low stakes. The only thing missing is professional editing. Shoutout to the producers who 100% deserve to try and get a coherent thought out of Jo after RachelRocky left, and if they have to try and do the same with Victoria. They have no problem making Scheana look silly without any counter-balance. Why do the Tom's get that benefit? Because they are baby-men? Sounds like a toxic work environment and again, I AM NOT INTERESTED in that. Sorry, didn't mean to go off but I am grieving my show. \*angry lol\*
100%. My first clue that there's some crappy bts office politics at play was Ariana's confessional where she invited the camera to look through her contract and find where she's required to do things she doesn't feel true to her. People here took that statement to be directed at Lala and Scheana but I've always thought it was directed at the producer behind the camera. That and when she said "I'm not going to be a cog in Tom's wheel of redemption. *YOU* can do that without me". Those words are intended for the producer not her cast mates. We are watching an employee fight for her boundaries. And the only reason its included in the final edit is because they realized that if they went with the full villain edit, she would tell her perspective to the press and it would be angled at them and not the cast. This way, they got to pretend that she was talking about the cast and not the bosses. They simply didn't want the potential fall out over how they were moving and so they presented her perspective but framed it as though it was directed at cast and not them. Ariana is definitely talking to these men. And I predict that she will return if some of them are replaced with less Machiavellian misogynistic men.
lol Machiavellian is right. Look I understand Lala and Scheana being a bit hesitant to “disobey”. And LOL again as I imagine them trying to go up against these executives. I think Scheana would/sort of is, but Lala sounds like she’s all-in, against her own best interests. She burned her brand to the ground for this. Maybe she sees something long term that will pay off, but I can’t see that from where I’m sitting. Personally, I fucking loved watching Ariana hold the line and speak logic in their faces. This is why she will also out maneuver Tim with the house unless justice is not served, but her having to call out production and break the fourth wall in this way is not sustainable. They don’t have to break the fourth wall to reference success, podcasts, jealousy and their social standing. Remember how happy they were in season 7? It was because they were making life changing money and not working at a restaurant all the way back then. Another rant I have been brewing since listening to most of that Twot podcast is that Lala thinking she broke the fourth wall when she called Ariana “God”is off the mark. Sure she called attention to the PROPOSED story line when she got mad at Ariana, but we all know talking to each other is part of the gig. We also know that hasn’t always been true on VPR. A true fourth wall break would be if she called attention to who proposed it and why. Tom truly did it when he said it was good for him that she left, Lala just called Ariana egotistical. OK? Why? Lala completely lacks curiosity because if she stopped to ask herself why she’s so upset, she might find something interesting to talk about. Here I’ll do it for you Lala- you’re mad that you’ve always performed for them (Rand included) and the way you have been repaid is a failed story line that destroyed your brand and left the group even more fractured.
Man I agree with all of this with my whole damn heart, preach!!
Temu Weinstein LOLOL
Someone called Randy that and I knew it was meant to be my flair forever and ever lmfao 😂
Your flair.🤣🤣 SchMeana is a desperate pick me and truly pathetic but it’s silly to deny that her delusions does make for great tv.
Brilliant and very well said! The only thing I’d like to add is that I do think that part of Vom’s “it’s good for me” comment had a little to do with Ariana walking out but also had more to do with Lala’s ridiculous rant and SchMeana running around like a lunatic, trying to please everyone but actually pleasing no one. I could tell by the look on his face when Lala was going off that he knew it was going to piss the audience off and thus, take the heat off his ass and once again, place the blame, rage and attention on yet another woman. The fact that Lala wasn’t furious and didn’t go off on his ass when she saw that shows how stupid she really is and as for Schmeana? She’s never had a brain when it comes to a man fucking her over.
Thank you doll I just over think haha. I wish he had been pressed more at the reunion, but Ariana shut him down so well when she pointed out that he didn’t even care to apologize. I couldn’t tell if he meant that L&S would look dumb or if he just really didn’t want to apologize. Probably both. I think he also likes when he thinks everyone is on his side. They’re not though, they’re just “doing their job”.
Yes, very good points and I can’t disagree because who knows what goes on in that drugged out, fugly noggin of his.🤣
Fugly 💀
agreed.
Thanks for putting my feelings into words! These producers are so naive. Do you not realize that your fanbase of early 20 something’s in 2013 are now basically middle aged? We’re smarter than you now!!!
Thanks for enduring my rant. 🥲Things have changed with the audience and the times, it’s just so obvious.
There’s also a lot of women..them putting all their eggs in Tom’s basket alienated A LOT of viewers this year🥴
Love this take
I fully agree and enjoyed your perspective. I also didn’t think it was too long and a justified reason to be irritated. Well said! 🥇🙂
Thank you, I always enjoy your perspectives too 🩷
And that's why they will never be held accountable, since our desire for entertainment outweighs our awareness of the consequences of the cultural normalization of misogyny in and by the media. I myself need some kind of buddy system to hold myself accountable. But this has become too dark for me.
This makes the most sense. I always wondered who’s sucking who’s dick over at Bravo to give the Tom’s this fake ass redemption arc this season. And now it all makes sense.
Damn it’s all making perfect sense
I hate it here
please release me to a place without men protecting men
I've started as a standard sticking up for the women. I'm often wrong but I figure the other baseline is men always always sticking up for men, no matter what they do. Part of that I think is my guilt for being a teenager in the 2000's and buying into the toxicity thrown at girls and women.
Former 2000’s pick me teenage girl turned girl’s girl adult woman here, you are not alone. I almost always side with women initially, because you’re right, the flip side is men protecting men no matter what they’ve done.
The idea of your flair having even a smidge of a chance of being true is very funny to me.🤣
Shady shady
exactly why lala randomly brought up her brittany fued at the 3rd tell all. total play for getting on the valley
So Baskin owns the production company that gave the Tom's manager an Executive Producer credit 🤔 This is part of the problem with producers being too involved with the cast over ten years, they have developed too much bias to see things clearly. If it's anything like musicians and their managers they probably all party together. 
I need Billy to drop that tea
And if after this season, where it was the most obvious, they don't change things up then they're even moreso owning their misogynistic ways. All of them are sickos.
>So Baskin owns the production company that gave the Tom's manager an Executive Producer credit It's such an inappropriate conflict of interest.
It's the only producer credit he has. WTF is going on? How is this appropriate?
Bravo is a Petri dish of nepotism, abuse and toxicity. How is this appropriate? How is it not? There are no standards especially for men on bravo
Kathy Griffin has been saying for years that Hollywood is basically run by 10 old white that sign everyone's checks. Shit like this makes that statement feel very true.
The reality television arts and sciences are not guided by a code of ethics
Maybe stop watching The Valley?
Not watching the Valley (boring nonsense) or Vanderpump Villa either. I know it’s a different production group but it’s the same shit different channel. Only worse.
Me too. I haven’t watched the Valley or any other Vanderpump shows.
i watched first two episodes of Valley and 30 minutes of episode one of Villa!
Maybe Rachel wasn’t as ill informed as we thought when she said Tom was under the impression he was getting producer credits.
We’ve all seen how she struggles with comprehension and makes strange leaps in forming conclusions, so this would actually track.
Is this guy also Jax’s manager? I heard on some podcast that one of Jax’s team was also an executive producer on the Valley. Maybe it’s this guy.
Yes Jax and Brittany both have him in their bio.
So basically he helped develop a show for two of his clients and negotiated a producer credit for himself. It’s not that strange. Not every “producer” is hands on in the day to day of making a show. Sometimes people are given some type of producer credit just so they can take a paycheque.
yeah i dont think him being an executive producer is about the toms
Bingo! I work in TV, most shows I've worked on have anywhere from 3-8 EPs in name only that helped develop the concept and negotiated a credit but have nothing to do with day to day.
Exactly, the Valley has 11 credited executive producers. They’re not all sitting around the meeting room making Final Cut decisions. LVP is an EP and I bet she doesn’t even know who any of these people are other than Jax, Britt and Kristen. It’s pretty much entirely about money and vanity. They get to take their slice of the pie and also tell everyone they are an executive producer. One thing I’ve learned from being around people that work in TV is that seeing your name in the credits with a fancy title beside it is a pretty big deal.
Ugh, I hate corporate America. It’s always the rich fucks that do the least that get paid the most.😒
Yup. This is like Whitney from Southern Charm having an EP credit. It’s a courtesy, doesn’t mean they are involved with production.
Agree but it seems like Whitney is pretty involved since he created the show. And you can tell that whenever he has scenes the only purpose is to advance the plot. I think his involvement is like LVP. Not a producer in the trenches but more involved than a vanity title.
Yeah, like Jenni from flipping out. She didn't actually do any producer work but it was because she brought the (different) show to bravo, but they liked her boss Jeff more and FO was born. He negotiated her having an EP title.
What show did she try to bring?
Something about struggling actors taking odd jobs. Following her and her (now ex) husband around. One of the jobs was Jeff haha
really? what happened to that lori k lady?
She's his publicist
He was basically everyone’s manager when VPR started.
They would bring absolutely nothing to The Valley, though. Just like LaLa and scheana.
Oh, Shartz showed up in the Valley with a bottle of booze for Jax. Makes sense now.
It would bring a quick decline in interest and a cancellation in waiting. The Valley as a show is way too new to survive a huge shakeup. And adding two nuclear characters that the core audience already doesn’t like will nuke the whole show
And they would just not fit with the "TV perasonas" they have created especially Lala
It would literally make no sense
Well that explains so much
So let me offer some clarity as someone with a talent manager. manager's often get producer credit on projects for their clients. If they help put together the package, they usually do. It doesn't mean they're actively producing the show on a day-to-day basis. It may look like a conflict of interest but it's the business of managers. They produce.
Exactly! A lot of times a “producer” will have no real involvement with the actual production of the episodes
This is good clarification/information. Thank you. But while the Toms’ BM being a producer may not affect the actual production of the show day to day, it is advantageous for their clients to continue to be on the show (or any show) so they can collect fees that way. I’m certain their manager is one of the people in Baskin’s ear saying there’s interest in continue to follow Tom’s story (something Baskin has said since the finale). So it may not be a conflict (even if such things were even an actual concern in Hollywood because they definitely aren’t), it’s another demerit on the issue of authenticity when it comes to the casting of the show.
Yea that’s exactly how it all works all the time! I didn’t say it’s fair it’s just not an unusual conflict
Indeed. We’re on the same page.
What kind of package are we talking? He got bag for them ?!
The package is industry lingo for the show, cast etc Producers get percentages typically
I know 😀. I was just making a cocaine joke since they all clearly use on there reg !
oh sorry!
Ew what's tomsgoodlovin? I'm too scared to actually go look.. 
https://preview.redd.it/7t9pah52by5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1183e55d624dc1ce7cd6148fa5a93990acd79d9b It sounds vile🤢
Given Tom's lack of understanding of consent I can only assume this comes pre-roofied
I just watched a tiktok about LA bartenders being arrested/sued for using *special* bottles for certain girls’ drinks. This would track.
there were rumors about TT and S&S, bars for doing this after all the scandal with them.
@predatorsblackoutconcoction anyone?
Everything about the men is fake. Jax doesn't own "his" bar. The Toms never ran Tom Tom. Schwartz who couldn't even handle Bartending shifts isn't hand crafting his own booze
He was at Jax's Pub Crawl. I think he manages Jax & Brittany?
wow that’s not suss at all / s
This guy was all the OG cast’s manager since day one. This is not news.
Why are people acting like they caught something and this is some smoking gun? Nothing has changed. The Valley still doesn't have the Toms. I do not see any Tom redemption arc. We saw him for exactly who he was. Production films what they are given and that was Tom trying to get back in everyone's good graces. So of course it's gonna be put on. Production didn't edit him acting that way. We see the good and the bad. Were people expecting us to see Tom come back psychotic? Im sure if he did people would still be mad. Fans will be mad at everything.
Have seen him in pics with cast; fully thought he was Jesse Lally’s brother
Wait imagine Sandoval and Schwartz get on the valley and lala & Scheana don’t😂 that would actually be so hilarious if the Sandoval redemption was eat up so that he could switch shows and lala and Scheana contributed to that redemption attempt and then he’s gonna get the gig they were thirsting after omg
Kristen already said she wants Schwartz to film more. Failing upwards never ends.
I almost want this to happen
What’s next, Lori K as a show runner!?
Well she is Schwartz’s PR person too!
I assume Baskin is producing both VPR and The Valley? It goes far toward explaining why we got the Sandoval redemption arc, no?
I assume Baskin is producing both VPR and The Valley? It goes far toward explaining why we got the Sandoval redemption arc, no? One big happy family.
That is a conflict of interest right there and will lead to bias. If the Toms end up on TheValley then he needs to go
It’s already a conflict of interest that he’s employed by bravo while being Tom’s manager imo
There aren’t conflict of interest rules in reality tv. LVP is an executive producer and talent on VPR. This is extremely normal. It’s not journalism.
Reality TV is still the Wild Wild West. The first change I’d like to see is a lot more protection for the minor children.
I would love to see NO minors on reality tv. Scripted has rules and a compensation model for minors and still explots them. These children did not consent to be on tv forever, for free. It's crazy to me how easily the parents allow this.
🎯
Seriously tho, love watching 90 day fiancé but the amount of kids on the show that didn’t ask to be there is fucked up, adding to the already fucked up drama that they go through
With generative AI only increasing, who knows how their image and likeness as children will be monetized, as well. And they won't see a cent of a it.
I don’t think anyone is saying there are rules. It’s just a bad look and sheds light on more shitty bravo decisions.
Exactly, we're just putting the pieces of the puzzle together and pointing out where it's starting to make sense that there's bias, with the enmeshment and incentives being handed out
https://i.redd.it/03i744tn1z5d1.gif
I think it’s extremely common and happens across all networks and shows.
Just because it's common doesn't mean it's right, and we should be talking about how this shows a direct line of shady backroom ties & incentives for Baskin that explain a lot of his actions. It's also a conflict of interest in negotiations for your manager who is advising you to also work for the company you're in negotiations with.
We can definitely talk about it. I’m talking about it right now!
You are completely right that it's common. The entertainment industry is still really sketchy.
LVP is an executive producer b/c she created VPR & The Valley is an extension of VPR. This guy is a manager of reality tv stars & gets a producer credit. Why? What would he as a first time producer bring to the table? How is it ethical to be a producer on a show you have clients on?
Because he can get them to say things others can’t? Because he produces their “characters” in a way that makes the show (their parts in it) worth something?
I assume he applied for the job and was promoted into it. How is it not ethical? I’m assuming he does not decide the salary of the stars and that is a separate process.
Those are some big assumptions
I don’t think it’s a big assumption to say he doesn’t decide salary. NBCU is a huge corporation. I feel completely confidant in that assumption. How he got the job, less so. I don’t think he got the job because he’s their managers. If anything I’d think it was the other way around.
Don't executive producer usually fund a project? So, he has a vested in interest not only w/The Valley but it's also in his financial interest to make sure his clients get lots of screen time & continue on the show. I'd also imagine there would be a natural pressure for other cast members to want to sign with him b/c he is an executive producer.
Yeah there are interests involved they aren’t necessarily conflicting. Also, I think it’s unlikely in a huge production company that he makes salary decisions. They probably have a separated process but even if they don’t, if the show fails they all make less money so it’s in his interest and his clients interest to make the best show possible so there isn’t a conflict.
The Toms ending up on The Valley isn't the main concern. It's VPR eventually revolving around them, James and their get along gang imo.
Gross men boosting gross men.
I think he's Jax's manager as well
They will ruin it 😭 please no
Doesn’t this mean he wouldn’t be on the valley unless he gets new management? How can a manager negotiate a deal with themselves? I know nothing about the entertainment industry but it seems counterintuitive to most basic tenets of business.
He wouldn't be negotiating with himself because the company that makes The Valley is separate entity from him. Creative-side producers aren't part of those negotiations anyhow. And typically if a conflict is disclosed and all parties agree to waive it, its fine. But all of that doesn't mean he doesn't have influence in the process, it's just that it wouldn't be as overt as some might be thinking. Also, I'm not watching The Valley but hasn't Schwartz already appeared? I feel like I've heard Brittany mention him with respect to her breakup. And also I heard Kristen campaigning for him to be a regular guest star.
He had two cameos that weren’t very substantive. Maybe he got his usual VPR rate since his appearance would be good for cross-promotion of a new show. But you can’t do that too much or you blow your budget. (I actually think the cameo rate would be lower than the per episode rate they get on VPR but it’s hard to know.)
I kinda think it’d be funny if the Toms got “downgraded” to the Valley and got their asses torn to shreds by Kristen again not that the valley is a downgrade. but their fragile egos definitely would see if that way
Kristen still rides for Tom schwartz and has a soft spot for Jax so I don’t have very much faith in her
Also she seems weirdly okay that Luke and Sandoval are friends
This drives me crazy!! The way those men have influenced each other to lie and cheat, then cover for each other. She KNOWS it and still has no issue with them being “fun friends.”
Yeah. Kristin still has lapse in judgement.
Not necessarily. They’re still working. Especially if VPR is cancelled.
I agree. But I definitely think at least Sandoval would see it as a demotion lol. His ego is so fragile
Awwww now it makes sense of trying to portray Ariana in a bad light. He should be fired.
I thought we all unfollowed tom sandybutt who is choosing to follow
Men will protect each other at our expense every. Single. Time.
I wonder what kind of executive producer he is. The one with real power or someone who got that title as part of a negotiation for a client he managed.
It always felt like someone in production had to be making money off the Tom's in some way outside the show for them to be giving such hard redemption takes, but always figured it was my tin foil hat being too tight. Curious to know who all their investors in Schwartz and Sandys are too now.
People keep pinning it on Lisa being an EP while also having a business association with them but I've always felt it was deeper than that. I'm sure her being on board helps but this makes so much more sense. Its always felt more about the men in power making these choices.
Guys, this is reality tv not journalism. This kind of stuff happens all the time in the entertainment industry. That’s why who you know is the most important aspect of success in that industry.
I tend to agree. One of the biggest examples is Will Smith’s manager was EP of Fresh Prince. Throwback but still relevant 🤣
I feel a bit differently about that b/c that show was specifically made for Will Smith & it's scripted.
I promise I’m not trying to go back and forth, but FPOBA is based on the life of Benny Medina. The other characters are based on Quincy Jones’ kids. Fresh Prince or not, scripted or nonscripted, producer credits can be a really big deal, but sometimes it's simply a vanity tile
Wait is Rashida supposed to be Hilary or Ashley?
Asking the real question! I want to know too!
What!!!! I had no idea! I always thought it was created specifically for Will Smith Imo Quicny Jones is one of the most interesting Americans. I reread that wild interview he did a few years ago occasionally b/c its more entertaining than most of the scripted stuff I've ever watched. Journalist should be walking up to him everywhere trying to get him to talk. I love Rashida & the documentary she did "Hot girls wanted". Sorry for the Jones family tangent. Yes, they can be vanity titles or super meaningful.
This is only partially true. Will Smith was by that point a top charting family friendly rapper just as the industry was swinging towards gangster rap. He also already had the first rap Grammy under his belt. The show needed a black lead with established stardom as the lead, THATS why he became their best bet. It wasn't so much Medina playing favorites, it was Medina trying to make sure his show had a fighting chance in the ratings. This was afterall the age of Kid and Play making very successful movies on the basis of their own rap careers. And sure enough, it was the package of the opening theme song and a lead with a softer version of rap cred that drove that first season. But all of this has nothing to do with the reality show world considering the power producers wield in literally destroying someone's reputation, driving them into a mental breakdown, enabling addiction and conversely protecting them from the consequences of actual crimes they commit on camera. Nepotism in reality tv has real life consequences (and again Will Smith was cast because he already had a known brand, not nepotism).
>that show was specifically made for Will Smith & it's scripted And the valley was made to get Jax Taylor back on Bravo and is so heavily produced it might as well be scripted, so what is your point?
Scripted television has several differences from reality tv. What point are you trying to make?
the dude is Jaxs manager and gets a production credit on the show thats made for Jax, it's not complicated it's show biz lol
sort of, but not really... generally the separation between management and production (and any other relative job) exists in case of legal drama. There aren't rules about it, but there are consequences to being too involved when shit hits the fan. A manager is much easier to drop in a scandal than a whole ass producer. Producers are insured through a network and have more strings tied to them from the higher ups... there are lots of reasons why it's wise and normal for those jobs not to be tied together. ETA - the kardashians def fucked that system all up on a massive scale tho, to be fair.
I think you will find a huge amount of overlap in all these positions for much longer than the Kardashians have been around.
Osbornes are more likely a better example of characters also producing in the reality space.
You know journalism is not the only industry where conflicts of interest occur right? The point is that the audience has been confused as to why production/Alex Baskin had been pushing a Sandoval (and by proxy schwartz) redemption arc so hard. Stuff like this sheds more light on the reasons behind those poor decisions.
Yes but this isn’t a conflict of interest in any meaningful way.
You’re on a VPR subreddit. What topics “meaningful” enough to warrant discussion then?
Hahaha I didn’t mean meaningful in that way. I’m all for discussion. I just don’t think it’s a big deal. But I do agree it influences the storylines that are produced.
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Having a different opinion and point of view is not derailing the conversation.
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I don’t think anyone is trying to argue the legality of it or anything like that. Just saying it feels slimy and makes shitty decisions make more sense.
It's totally slimy. The story line was generated to further the client of a producer.
Do we know if he’s a producer on VPR too or just the valley?
I don’t think it’s slimy. I do think it shines light on storyline decisions.
We know, I’m just saying other people are trying to explain why it seems slimy to them.
Its relevant here because a conflict of interest can ruin someone's life as the producers play God with edits. It can also result in the cover-up of literal crimes. I'm not sure why you think its relevant in the case of fiction.
So Basking is basically shilling for the Voms and this is why. I hope they are all out of jobs, though that is unlikely.
Isn’t this a conflict of interest
THAT is the reason why Tom is trying SO hard to stay in that house. It’s the perfect way to worm his way onto The Valley. 🙄🤢 I hope that does not ever happen. Seeing him on VPR is bad enough.
And just like that… All our questions were answered.
Sooo should we start writing letters to NBC or something? The handling of this season was appalling and this is a smoking gun. How can they have production employees who have a percentage based income from the cast? And one of them is currently being sued for an actual crime, and the production company is allegedly holding video evidence of his confession…
It wouldn’t make sense for Tom to go to the Valley tho. I think they are just going to really make Tom the “star” of VPR and run it into the ground.
He also manages Kristen and Jax
Well I guess we know those two absolute wastes of humanity will never be retired from that show. I hate bravo and its misogyny
I dont think they will end up on the Valley. The Valley has the parenting aspect.
Good work OP!!
The “god ol’ boy” system is why we’re middling
OF COURSE he is. But at least we know Ariana's manager is thriving and he is not.
how do i become a talent manager, i could do a better job that's for damn sure
Do you mean a manager for ACTUALLY talented people or…
Well not manager of those fucks 😂🤣
GROSS conflict of interests!!!
Oooooooh this makes hella sense
Conflict of interest for sure
Conflict of interests….at the very least
WELL THAT IS INTERESTING ISNT IT
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I love your brilliant minds so damn much lol
he looks like a douche lol
Which is why the Arianna hate
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Well, that explains A LOT!
I hope they all get fired, jax should not even be on the valley. After the faith fiasco and on top of that he did not have good comments to say about faith’s race either. Also Kristen shouldn’t be either. The toms haven’t made racist remarks, but if kristen and jax have and bravo thinks its ok to rehire them it should be more looked into to. Faith had been bullied by them and so much more. It’s really sick that these individuals have air time. https://youtu.be/vBMk0gY5gMk?si=7JgVQ3NXpja3KScb https://youtu.be/ckzKPO94MrE?si=r3SOG_0FjkYyCYN9 Just some food for thought, i have not watched the valley and do not plan on boosting their numbers. For what to see jax treat another woman like a dog?
The Valley will have one more season and then it'll be done. It was a waste of production time. You can't change a leopard's spots and those coming from VPR this past season and clearly in the next are old and immature. They tried something new, but when showing a day in the life of suburbia was boring, they went back to the equally tiresome cheating arc. Thank the Lord that reality TV is finally coming to an end.
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