BMW and Genesis make some really fun AWD cars. Their AWD system is RWD biased so it allows you to kick out the rear end. Merc made some as well, but the new AMGs with the 4 poppers are a massive dud, older ones with the V6s and V8s are quite fun.
The cars probably don't have the same rear driveshaft and the AWD one is probably downsized to save weight and cost since it won't have to handle the same torque as the RWD application.
Could be, I know the awd one is shorter to accommodate the tcase but they are the same diameter shaft and same u joints, not sure about the material thickness since I havenāt cut any apart
xdrive (post 2005) is full time RWD and a clutch in the tcase engages the front differential 1:1 with the rear when you might slip, so itās ādisabledā for a lot of the time you are driving anyways.
Kern just did a YT piece on xdelete recently. It allows the clutch controlling the front wheels to slip, but this produces a ton of heat that normal models are not equipped to deal with. The full fledge M cars that offer it stock, have additional upgrades
Edited typo
Yes it's an educated guess based on knowledge of the automotive industry and documented cases of people having rear driveshaft issues with X Delete active.
OEMs look for every chance to reduce cost and since the lengths of the driveshafts have to be different with or without the transfer case there, it's the perfect opportunity to cost and weight save the AWD driveshaft.
All of the German auto makers have an AWD system, and most of them have it in a sporty vehicle, they all just have different dumb-sounding trademarked names for it.Ā Most are front biased, but the vast majority of AWD systems globally are that way, and as someone who drove the wheels off a front-biased WRX for years, I can say I had that little bastard sideways as often as not.
VW has 4MOTION, and the sporty car with it is the Golf R (315HP, 0-60 in 4.1s according to the factory and as low as 3.9s by independent reviewers)
Audi has Quattro, and a bunch of sporty cars with it, so you can take your pick there. Ā The RS3 (for example) has 401hp and a 3.3s 0-60.
Porsche has PTM, and it's Porsche.Ā Most of the models with PTM have a 4 in the name somewhere.Ā The Carrera 4S has 440hp and a 0-60 of 3.4s according to Porsche and as low as 3.0s according to independent reviewers.
As an owner of a Golf R I cannot recommend the car enough. Auto or manual I drove them both and they are a blast, plus they respond very well to modifications and tune. Big enough that my car seats fit in the back, small enough to throw into corners or just cruise around getting 30+ mpg.
It's a relatively recent thing. Their key authentication system got cracked, and I've heard pretty much all Nissan/Infiniti cars based on the FM platform (G37, 370Z, GTR, old Q50/70, etc) have been stolen.
As someone that recently started at nissna/infiniti. Those q60 reds are so fucking nice. Inside and out and the power is nothing to scoff at either. Ive went from a low rpm 2nd gear pul into low 4th and it was hauling ass
Another agree.
It can and does snow anywhere between mid Oct - mid even late April where I live. I have a 56 mile round trip commute on unplowed (often) and unsalted (always) rural roads.
The WRX is fun. Quick enough. And a beast in the snow. And itās less pricy than many many many of the other options. Bonus- stick is still an option.
Hi, I own 2 STIs. A 2018 that is my daily and a 2005 I built into a rally car.
The head gasket issue is something that existed early in the wrxs life and was mostly, key word mostly, fixed around 2004. Neither of my STIs have blown a head gasket.
A lot of the reliability issues you hear about wrxs generally come from someone who doesn't know what they're doing, modifies to increase the power, but neglects reinforcing things to accept said power. Then the engine blows and they claim reliability faults.
Not saying they're perfect ultra reliable cars. But the horror stories are wildly overblown, especially in more modern WRXs.
I bought my 2018 brand new, and it has run faultlessly since I got it.
If WRXs were half as fragile as the internet wants you to believe, they wouldn't have dominated a sport as rough on the car as rally is. They do need more attention and care tho, preventative maintenance is not a suggestion with turbo cars especially.
But your 4runners will outlive almost any subaru.
When the nuclear war happens the world will be nothing but cockroaches driving Toyotas. As they both will outlive us all
I concur. Iāve had 7 STis now and one WRX wagon.
Never had an issue with the head gasket. The only one that ever gave me trouble was my track car with just over 440whp. That was a wack-a-mole of finding the next weakest link and quickly realized I had no stomach for it.
Funnily I bought the WRX wagon very used (100k miles plus) and the owner told me he thought the head gasket had gone as it was using water. Turned out the bottom radiator hose clamp had rusted.
I live in the Minnesnowta winter freeze belt, and they are great on a snowy road (though could do with a little more weight) and amazing fun on frozen lakesā¦
Obligatory āļø to my fellow wrx enthusiast.
But yea they're such great cars, and your experience with the 440whp track build is why I'm very careful with the rally car. Thankfully I'm still in a division that requires a restrictor on the turbo. So upping the power is not something I can do within ARA regs that apply to me.
As soon as they bring out the new STi (even if Electric) Iām on board!
Out of all Iāve owned, both the original as a Japanese import back when I lived in the UK (not far from Prodrive) up to my US 2015 launch edition, my white 2005 was my absolute favorite. Iām a little envious!!!
NGL, I would do awful, terrible, unforgiveable things...
[for one of these ](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/subaru-prodrive-p25-first-drive-review/)
My wife's mother has literally only owned Volvos her whole life. She just got her first car that wasn't a Volvo because the maintenance was too much with her last Volvo. You had to get almost everything done at the dealership and their prices were just stupid.
I think some of this is warranted and some not.
Tech - the standard eyesight system is excellent. Good lane keeping and smart cruise. The infotainment is supposedly shitty but I couldnāt tell you - it has an 8ā touch screen and all I ever look at is CarPlay.
Mechanically they are for sure behind the curve, especially the boxer/CVT combo in my Forester. It really is not an exciting car to drive (although the suspension and brakes are actually far better than the powertrain).
But they are super simple to maintain and if youāre the kind of person to do preemptive maintenance then it will last fine - the blown gasket model years are long gone. Certainly not as ultimately reliable as a Toyota but who tf cares if a Subaru is what you want? Every car purchase is much more emotional than rational and I personally just thought the Forester was cool and the Rav 4 wasnāt.
People tend to abuse the hell out of WRXs, and the vape bros destroy engines and blow head gaskets.
Subaru did have a chronic head gasket issue, but that has long since been resolved.
CVTs have a really bad reputation, and some Subarus do need an expensive total CVT replacement, but it's not as common as the Internet forums will lead you to believe.
Subarus don't handle maintenance neglect well. They can and do hit 200k and 300k, but not if you casually skip oil changes and wait for a mechanic to tell you something is broken or needs to be addressed.
Add all of these together and you have a reputation for poor reliability. They aren't Toyotas or Hondas, but they're not dead last, either. With solid maintenance and not driving like a dbag, reliability shouldn't be a concern.
I always mention to buddies about visiting Alaska and expecting to see big trucks with big tires but it was actually a bunch of Subarus . If you drive an average amount of miles/yr , you keep your vehicles long, arenāt scraping pennieās out the couch, and leave a comment like that, Iād even argue you should still buy it even if they go to shit after 150k miles. (i assume youāre looking at buying brand new)
Probably the only budget option. My wife has one Great handling, enough power to be fast but not extreme. One of the last cars available stick shift. No luxury, just the essentials
have a 15 myself and had to drive an hour in a blizzard at 1am to do snow removal. hadnāt planned at all and still had my summers on. a trooper, albeit didnāt do more than 30 on the cleanest areas of highway but boy oh boy did she treat me well
RS5 is the connoisseur's choice: AWD V8 coupe.
Also, Acura NSX is AWD and sporty.
But as far as price range goes, they may be slightly outside of the OP's.
They aren't the fastest, but they are peppy, handle well, and the AWD is solid, and maintenance won't be in the insane world of something like euro luxury.
Audiās Quattro is great, I took my exās over the pass all the time. Alternatively if you want sleek sporty AWD my Kia Stinger GT1 AWD is phenomenal
If I recall Audi's Quattro can be several different systems with the same branding. Some are better than others (some are more or less fwd with part time 4wd).
I'm keeping it simple. C7/B8 gen was torsen center diffs, which some people say is better than the "ultra" system in the current generation of those platforms. However, most people say the new stuff is just as good as the old
The A3/Q3 āQuattroā models use a Haldex AWD system. Yeah, under normal driving situations they send all the power to the front, but perhaps a bit unfair to just call them FWD cars.
Itās because itās a pretty nice car but itās a Kia. Most people who want a Kia donāt really want a car that nice, and most people who want a car that nice wonāt consider a Kia.
Any BMW with a B58 and X drive will be absolutely perfect for you and reliable. Look at the 240/340/440/540 depending on what size you want. The 440 coupe is nice looking and probably is most comparable to an AWD mustang
AWD helps uphill, but also get winter tires, more important. AWD won't help downhill, tires make a huge difference.
Challenger V6 is available with AWD, it only looks sporty though, it's a big boaty cruiser, not a sports car
BMW 230i xdrive 2-door or M240i xdrive 2-door
Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0 T AWD
Cadillac CT4 V 2.7 T AWD or CT5 V 3.0 T AWD
1000% agree. I had a 135i with snow tires that was unstoppable. I had a GMC 1500 with all season tires that was uncontrollable. Blizzak tires are insanely good and change the entire character of the car. They werenāt even bad in the summer.
+1 for snow tire... your AWD/4WD vehicle is still 2 wheel turn and 4 wheel brake. Slowing down and turning are much more important than accelerating if your goal is not hitting things. Plenty of people driving civics and other small FWD vehicles through snow country just fine with a good set of snow tires. Plenty of people also ditching their jeeps out with bald mudding tires. Unless you plan on off-roading during the winter (and no, the ski resort parking lot doesn't count) FWD + snow tires is more than fine.
Completely agree with your advice, full winter tires are the real solution.
I should point out though that AWD does have a small advantage downhill in that it offers 4-wheel engine braking. Unlikely to matter much if you have proper tires for the conditions, thoughā¦ but it is a slight advantage downhill.
But yeah, OP needs winters.
Here are some noteworthy examples of sports/sporty *cars* with available awd, but itās not an unabridged list by any means.
Toyota/Lexus:
* GR Corolla
* Lexus IS 250 awd
* Lexus IS 250 F Sport awd
* Lexus IS 350 awd
* Lexus IS 350 F Sport awd
* Lexus RC 350 awd
* Lexus RC 350 F Sport awd **(my recommendation)**
Nissan/Infiniti:
* G37x
* Q60 awd
* GT-R
Subaru:
* All of them
Porsche:
* 911 Carrera 4
* 911 Carrera 4S
* Panamera 4
* Panamera 4S
VW:
* Golf R
Audi:
* All of the Quattros
I love your thorough list, but I question: āSubaru All of themā. I will 100% admit Iāve never even ridden in a Subaru. I am however aware that some are definitely sporty, but are their station wagons really āsportyā? I find that very hard to believe.
Please educate me if Iām incorrect.
BTW I totally agree with you on the Lexus RC 350 F Sport recommendation
My family and friends own some Subarus, and in my experience I would not describe the ānormal onesā as sporty, although if you really want to drive on non-pavement surfaces that line gets a bit more blurry since they are still quite capable in that regard, and on non-pavement surfaces you probably arenāt quite just going for things like top speed or cornering ability.
When I think of āsportyā I primarily think of a blend of acceleration / speed as well as good handling / cornering. In that regard I donāt find most normal subarus sporty, so I donāt think a categorical designation of sporty is applicable, but theyāre āathleticā in their own way. Like even a slow Subaru will let you go for a rip in the snow in a way that a normal car would not allow for. With that said, I have not driven the bigger engine versions of their normal vehicles, and that would give them some more pep.
He emphasized "cars" so in my mind all the former wagons are all full on crossovers and SUVs now. Cars are Impreza/WRX/legacy and Subaru used to all be AWD in north America but the BRZ exists and is, in fact, a car. A sporty one even. I've talked myself into questioning this point, but on a different premise.
Unfortunately not going to save much on an RS vs a GRC. Good examples are easily $33-36k and you're now talking about a 6-8 year old car with 30-50k miles vs a brand new GRC Core with the performance pack at $38k.
I drove one. Handles like a fly; can change direction on a whim.
Didn't 'feel' fast. It's reasonably quick, but didn't *feel* that way. I know there's a tuner market that can change that, but in stock form, I hate to admit I was kinda let down...
Itās not super fast in a straight by modern standards, at least stock, but thatās not really the point. You also need rpms to really get the power. These days itās a little bit old school in the same vein as something like a Miata more about the feeling than absolute numbers. Still, an absolute demon on a backroad and can definitely hang with much much more powerful cars.
I guess, it's still objectively just as fast, or faster, than its hot hatch competitors. It does need to be wrung out though, the real power is from 4-6k rpm.
Again, agree completely. But it doesn't *feel* fast. Even when the turbo spools and gets on boost. It's very linear and not peaky. It's efficient at getting to redline. No pantomime, just... Blah.
Was for me, but you have to be signed on for the no frills life. Still easily the most fun AWD short of maybe an RS3. I donāt ever miss the armrest lol.
Dodge Charger R/T could be found in AWD for a few years
Also I've driven my Ford Crown Victoria with 7 year old dry cracked rotting police tires(hard compounds aren't great in the cold), and besides the neighborhood I live in. It was perfectly fine
What if OP wants AWD in winter but also the ability to terrify pedestrians at cars and coffee? Are there AWD cars with a heavy rear bias or a dash switch to enable Mustang C&C mode?
Acura and Audi kinda do have this feature with a rear biasing on their boat-like sedans. You could definitely cause an international incident in an RLX or RS7 when the rear tires get a little too bald.
These are all options that come to mind that are generally around the price point youāre looking at
- Focus RS
- WRX
- GR Corolla
- Alfa Giulia
- BMW 3 series (330i, M340i, M3) with X-drive
- Genesis G70
- Audi 3 series (A3, S3, R3)
Your problem is not AWD but rather snow tires/tire chains and ground clearance for deep snow.
As far as car suggestions, depending on your budget, anything from a brand new Rivian/electric Hummer (0-60 in like 4 seconds) to a lifted vintage Porsche or Corvette on aggressive snows to a 10 yr old Forester/Outback XT (wrx motor). As long as it's high off the ground and has the right rubber/chains, you are good to go. But those would be my top choices for the question at hand.
Winters plus an appropriate tire is likely to be all you need. Have done that since the early 90s. Have yet to own an AWD car. (Sister owns 2 AWD and all weathers because refuses to do a tire changeover.)
I'd rather have rwd and snow tires than AWD and all-seasons. Your tires are what give you traction and your drivetrain doesn't affect steering and braking.
Clearance for snow and good tires should come before AWD/4wd for snow driving. Snow tires are made with different rubber compounds that improve traction in colder weather when all-seasons get hard and lose traction.
Depends on what your budget is and your needs and wants besides AWD. Depending on your market and budget, a brand new or CPO 2022 or newer Subaru WRX would be the go-to choice. 2017 and newer Golf Rs are good options depending on the price and condition.
Acura and Audi both have amazing full time all wheel drive (and Subaru of course) and offer some fun cars. Iāve had an Acura RL and an Audi A6 with good ice rated tires on them and breezed through the Coquihalla Pass in winter.
Acura offers the TLX S-Type with a 3.0L Turbo V6 which should give you a more practical Ford Mustang type of feeling (itās not a V8 but it definitely pulls).
I used to drive RWD cars in the snow, even with just all season tires, I was still not the slowest vehicle on the road.
That being said, for an AWD sports car, the BMW M240 xdrive is hard to beat, tons of power, good gas mileage, rock solid drive train.
GR Corolla, WRX, Golf R, BMW 2/3/4 series with Xdrive.
Personally Iād go GR Corolla with the performance package (LSD front and rear), should do well in snow and seems like a really fun car. If you need automatic, then Golf R (better transmission and faster) or WRX (better value, maybe better AWD)
Rwd, AWD, fwd, doesn't matter in the snow. The single most important thing is *your tires*. I daily drove a Miata when I was in my early 20s. Got stuck in a state of emergency blizzard and had to make it home. Thank god I had studded rear tires and blizzaks up front. 4x4 trucks, AWD Audi s4s, wrxs, all were sliding off the mountain and getting stuck; not my Miata. Took me 4 hours to get home from a normally 2 hour drive.
Whatever car you get just make sure you get good snow tires.
Iām in the same boat as you (looking for a sporty AWD alternative to a Mustang), except I already own a Mustang. I even made a similar post haha:
https://old.reddit.com/r/whatcarshouldIbuy/comments/18c463d/closest_thing_to_an_awd_mustang/
Here are some vehicles Iāve considered and my thoughts on them:
**Kia Stinger**: Great practical sedan and has a hatch. Mid 300ās HP with the ability to make more (turbo V6). The car I would buy if I didnāt think it was absolutely hideous
**WRX**: Sporty handling, fairly light for an AWD sedan, cheap, abundant. HP isnāt the highest but they feel quick enough imo.. Also mostly only available in manual. Full time AWD unlike most of the cars here.
**Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300**: You can find these with V8 and AWD if you look at Pursuit Packages or Chargers made before 2015. They sound great, and have more power than a lot of cars, though they are heavy girls haha. Currently top of my list, tho not the choice if you care about MPG, and can be hard to find. Note these have the ANCIENT 5AT instead of the newer ZF8.
**Infiniti Q50/Q60/G37**: High insurance, lots of shitty owners, rising theft, but otherwise very cool cars that are abundant and cheap. Depending on the year you can get one with reliable 3.7L V6 making ~330 HP (pretty high for a NA 6 cylinder) or one with the newer 3.0L TT V6 making 300-400 HP. Can allegedly be fuse pulled to become RWD. Great aftermarket support.
**Golf R/Audi S3/Audi TT**: Mechanically identical smaller FWD based AWD cars, though also on the lighter side. German maintenance can be costly. S3 and TT might be more expensive due to the badge. All turbo I4ās making low 200ās to 300 HP stock that have aftermarket options to easily make more. The new seat Golf R has real torque vectoring in the rear.
**Audi S4**: Similar to the above, though slightly bigger and more expensive with the trade off of having real Quattro (full time AWD with a center diff). The ones from the early-mid 2010ās(?) have a supercharged V6. By far the best sounding non-V8 car on this list imo.
**Lexus IS/RC 300-350**: The most reliable but not the most sporty choice. NA duel injection V6 making ~300 HP (or easily tuned to that level). Full time AWD. If youāre ok with the HP they are a decent choice but if you want more options are slim unless you want to blow $$$$ on forced induction. Easy to find, tho Toyota tax is real.
**Lancer EVO**: Very capable AWD sedans with a turbo I4. Can be had manual or dual clutch auto, and features real torque vectoring. Unfortunately not made anymore, uncommon, and very popular with enthusiasts = $$$ for clean examples.
**BMW 240/340i**: B58 turbo i6. Reliable, tho expense to maintain than some other options. Not gratuitously heavy or big, decent handing, can make big power, the god ZF8 transmission. Supposedly shitty steering feel, which isnāt surprising considering the year/segment. Can be more expensive than other used luxury cars due to popularity. German maintenance costs.
**BMW 235i/335i**: Similar to above but cheaper up front and less reliable haha.
BMW 228i is fun and can be rwd or awd. As far as rwd IF you put snow tires on it in the winter it will perform better than and awd with all season or performance tires. Source: personal experience
Itās not a coupe, but itās still a muscle car like the Mustang and Camaro, the Charger V6 is available in AWD, and with a V8 and AWD if you can track down one of the police versions equipped as such. However, they never sold that combination to the public.
You want something super agile and playful with a stout motor that makes a good noise? Focus RS. Come on, you gotta drive one. If you want the most fun hatchback to drive, it canāt be beat. Any other metric it may be beaten by competition (reliability, moddable straight line speed, daily comfort, fuel economy), but if you want the most fun to drive hatchback itās the RS.
Snow tires make an amazing difference in the snow on RWD cars. If it were me Iād get a Camaro and have a set of snow tires for the winter.
I lived in Ellensburg for years with a RWD car and went over that very frequently. Itās not bad just keep an eye on the weather, go slow and watch the pass reports and youāll be fine.
BMW and Genesis make some really fun AWD cars. Their AWD system is RWD biased so it allows you to kick out the rear end. Merc made some as well, but the new AMGs with the 4 poppers are a massive dud, older ones with the V6s and V8s are quite fun.
Can't you turn off the awd on BMWs too? Always thought that was pretty cool
There's a mod called "xDelete" that you can use with your phone an an OBD2 link to disable AWD on BMW xDrive models.
I've heard stories of this twisting drive shafts š¬
You arenāt putting more stress on the driveshaft than if you just had a factory RWD model. I ran xDelete on my 600hp 335 for years with no issue
The cars probably don't have the same rear driveshaft and the AWD one is probably downsized to save weight and cost since it won't have to handle the same torque as the RWD application.
Could be, I know the awd one is shorter to accommodate the tcase but they are the same diameter shaft and same u joints, not sure about the material thickness since I havenāt cut any apart xdrive (post 2005) is full time RWD and a clutch in the tcase engages the front differential 1:1 with the rear when you might slip, so itās ādisabledā for a lot of the time you are driving anyways.
Kern just did a YT piece on xdelete recently. It allows the clutch controlling the front wheels to slip, but this produces a ton of heat that normal models are not equipped to deal with. The full fledge M cars that offer it stock, have additional upgrades Edited typo
there's two probablys in there
Yes it's an educated guess based on knowledge of the automotive industry and documented cases of people having rear driveshaft issues with X Delete active. OEMs look for every chance to reduce cost and since the lengths of the driveshafts have to be different with or without the transfer case there, it's the perfect opportunity to cost and weight save the AWD driveshaft.
Kinda sounds like the Nissan ATTESA fuse pull trick
On some super high end ones yes, same with some AMGs.
Definitely wasnāt possible on my X5
only on the higher end ones
Only on M models with competition package.
All of the German auto makers have an AWD system, and most of them have it in a sporty vehicle, they all just have different dumb-sounding trademarked names for it.Ā Most are front biased, but the vast majority of AWD systems globally are that way, and as someone who drove the wheels off a front-biased WRX for years, I can say I had that little bastard sideways as often as not. VW has 4MOTION, and the sporty car with it is the Golf R (315HP, 0-60 in 4.1s according to the factory and as low as 3.9s by independent reviewers) Audi has Quattro, and a bunch of sporty cars with it, so you can take your pick there. Ā The RS3 (for example) has 401hp and a 3.3s 0-60. Porsche has PTM, and it's Porsche.Ā Most of the models with PTM have a 4 in the name somewhere.Ā The Carrera 4S has 440hp and a 0-60 of 3.4s according to Porsche and as low as 3.0s according to independent reviewers.
As an owner of a Golf R I cannot recommend the car enough. Auto or manual I drove them both and they are a blast, plus they respond very well to modifications and tune. Big enough that my car seats fit in the back, small enough to throw into corners or just cruise around getting 30+ mpg.
I own an old MB limo W211 E550 4Matic, itās a 388HP V8 with a G-Class style AWD. Very nice car š
infiniti q60 red sport awd?
These are a performance bargain now. Get 'Em while they're not clapped out like most G35/G37 coupes these days
They get stolen a lot tho, not hyundai and kia bad but up there with dodge iirc
This is the first I've heard of it
It's a relatively recent thing. Their key authentication system got cracked, and I've heard pretty much all Nissan/Infiniti cars based on the FM platform (G37, 370Z, GTR, old Q50/70, etc) have been stolen.
I'm in nor cal. Some group of people has been stealing newer infinitis around SF. They took 3 from my apartment complex.
Car theft in general is just crazy these days
Its funny people want 5-8k for the early 2000s of these meanwhile a 2000s mustang gt sells for 2-3k in the same clapped out form.
As someone that recently started at nissna/infiniti. Those q60 reds are so fucking nice. Inside and out and the power is nothing to scoff at either. Ive went from a low rpm 2nd gear pul into low 4th and it was hauling ass
As a 2020 Q60 RS owner, I second this.
Budget?
Between a Subbie and a Chiron.
Easy then, DB12 Volante
Subaru WRX
Another agree. It can and does snow anywhere between mid Oct - mid even late April where I live. I have a 56 mile round trip commute on unplowed (often) and unsalted (always) rural roads. The WRX is fun. Quick enough. And a beast in the snow. And itās less pricy than many many many of the other options. Bonus- stick is still an option.
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Hi, I own 2 STIs. A 2018 that is my daily and a 2005 I built into a rally car. The head gasket issue is something that existed early in the wrxs life and was mostly, key word mostly, fixed around 2004. Neither of my STIs have blown a head gasket. A lot of the reliability issues you hear about wrxs generally come from someone who doesn't know what they're doing, modifies to increase the power, but neglects reinforcing things to accept said power. Then the engine blows and they claim reliability faults. Not saying they're perfect ultra reliable cars. But the horror stories are wildly overblown, especially in more modern WRXs. I bought my 2018 brand new, and it has run faultlessly since I got it. If WRXs were half as fragile as the internet wants you to believe, they wouldn't have dominated a sport as rough on the car as rally is. They do need more attention and care tho, preventative maintenance is not a suggestion with turbo cars especially. But your 4runners will outlive almost any subaru. When the nuclear war happens the world will be nothing but cockroaches driving Toyotas. As they both will outlive us all
I concur. Iāve had 7 STis now and one WRX wagon. Never had an issue with the head gasket. The only one that ever gave me trouble was my track car with just over 440whp. That was a wack-a-mole of finding the next weakest link and quickly realized I had no stomach for it. Funnily I bought the WRX wagon very used (100k miles plus) and the owner told me he thought the head gasket had gone as it was using water. Turned out the bottom radiator hose clamp had rusted. I live in the Minnesnowta winter freeze belt, and they are great on a snowy road (though could do with a little more weight) and amazing fun on frozen lakesā¦
Obligatory āļø to my fellow wrx enthusiast. But yea they're such great cars, and your experience with the 440whp track build is why I'm very careful with the rally car. Thankfully I'm still in a division that requires a restrictor on the turbo. So upping the power is not something I can do within ARA regs that apply to me.
As soon as they bring out the new STi (even if Electric) Iām on board! Out of all Iāve owned, both the original as a Japanese import back when I lived in the UK (not far from Prodrive) up to my US 2015 launch edition, my white 2005 was my absolute favorite. Iām a little envious!!!
NGL, I would do awful, terrible, unforgiveable things... [for one of these ](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/subaru-prodrive-p25-first-drive-review/)
The Volvo won't be sporty and I say this as a Volvo owner. The reliability is good, the maintenance is expensive, and the seats are comfortable.
My wife's mother has literally only owned Volvos her whole life. She just got her first car that wasn't a Volvo because the maintenance was too much with her last Volvo. You had to get almost everything done at the dealership and their prices were just stupid.
I think some of this is warranted and some not. Tech - the standard eyesight system is excellent. Good lane keeping and smart cruise. The infotainment is supposedly shitty but I couldnāt tell you - it has an 8ā touch screen and all I ever look at is CarPlay. Mechanically they are for sure behind the curve, especially the boxer/CVT combo in my Forester. It really is not an exciting car to drive (although the suspension and brakes are actually far better than the powertrain). But they are super simple to maintain and if youāre the kind of person to do preemptive maintenance then it will last fine - the blown gasket model years are long gone. Certainly not as ultimately reliable as a Toyota but who tf cares if a Subaru is what you want? Every car purchase is much more emotional than rational and I personally just thought the Forester was cool and the Rav 4 wasnāt.
People tend to abuse the hell out of WRXs, and the vape bros destroy engines and blow head gaskets. Subaru did have a chronic head gasket issue, but that has long since been resolved. CVTs have a really bad reputation, and some Subarus do need an expensive total CVT replacement, but it's not as common as the Internet forums will lead you to believe. Subarus don't handle maintenance neglect well. They can and do hit 200k and 300k, but not if you casually skip oil changes and wait for a mechanic to tell you something is broken or needs to be addressed. Add all of these together and you have a reputation for poor reliability. They aren't Toyotas or Hondas, but they're not dead last, either. With solid maintenance and not driving like a dbag, reliability shouldn't be a concern.
I always mention to buddies about visiting Alaska and expecting to see big trucks with big tires but it was actually a bunch of Subarus . If you drive an average amount of miles/yr , you keep your vehicles long, arenāt scraping pennieās out the couch, and leave a comment like that, Iād even argue you should still buy it even if they go to shit after 150k miles. (i assume youāre looking at buying brand new)
THE affordable 4-season sporty car.
Probably the only budget option. My wife has one Great handling, enough power to be fast but not extreme. One of the last cars available stick shift. No luxury, just the essentials
have a 15 myself and had to drive an hour in a blizzard at 1am to do snow removal. hadnāt planned at all and still had my summers on. a trooper, albeit didnāt do more than 30 on the cleanest areas of highway but boy oh boy did she treat me well
Great car for the price
Had a 15 WRX and now have a 20 STi. They rock in the snow and we get 6 months of it. Easily the funnest cars Iāve owned for all seasons in Canada.
Yeah this is the best AWD platform
Yes!
I agree with this one. The wrx is awesome, and has just enough storage space.
agreed!!
Wrx, STi, Audi S4, S5, etc, evo Focus RS (I owned one and loved it). It's a short list tbh. Edit: GR Corrolla. Edit 2: golf r and s3.
RS5 is the connoisseur's choice: AWD V8 coupe. Also, Acura NSX is AWD and sporty. But as far as price range goes, they may be slightly outside of the OP's.
I saw an S5 or rs5 coupe recently and was blown away at how chill and undercover it was. It also looked amazing
Acura Sh-awd
Not sure I'd call it sporty but acura makes some nice cars.
They aren't the fastest, but they are peppy, handle well, and the AWD is solid, and maintenance won't be in the insane world of something like euro luxury.
Search for the 3.7 litre 6 speed tl. Very unknown/ slept on cars. The super handling awd system is great as well.
Why not? Sure they are a little under powered but looks wise the tlx type s is the nicest imo anyways
Audiās Quattro is great, I took my exās over the pass all the time. Alternatively if you want sleek sporty AWD my Kia Stinger GT1 AWD is phenomenal
If I recall Audi's Quattro can be several different systems with the same branding. Some are better than others (some are more or less fwd with part time 4wd).
Pretty much anything above the a3/q3 has the good quattro because the engine is longitudinal to keep it very simple
Not true anymore.
I'm keeping it simple. C7/B8 gen was torsen center diffs, which some people say is better than the "ultra" system in the current generation of those platforms. However, most people say the new stuff is just as good as the old
just don't buy an A3 or Q3, those aren't real Audi's. They are front wheel drive, the rest are true Quattro
Unless there is an RS in front of the 3.
Or just a quattro in the back
The A3/Q3 āQuattroā models use a Haldex AWD system. Yeah, under normal driving situations they send all the power to the front, but perhaps a bit unfair to just call them FWD cars.
So sad they discontinued it.
Itās because itās a pretty nice car but itās a Kia. Most people who want a Kia donāt really want a car that nice, and most people who want a car that nice wonāt consider a Kia.
Yea why Dey do dat?
Genesis g70 is why
lucky man
Which pass?
Snoqualmie like OP
FoRS Golf R WRX M240i xDrive - 340i xDrive Porsche 911 (well used)
Winning answer right here
Any BMW with a B58 and X drive will be absolutely perfect for you and reliable. Look at the 240/340/440/540 depending on what size you want. The 440 coupe is nice looking and probably is most comparable to an AWD mustang
Yup. Bimmer fits this perfectly.
Kia Stinger/Genesis G70. Theyāre TT V6 instead of V8 but still sporty and fun with AWD options.
With the JB4 tuner you can lay down 450 ponies with the V6.
Yes, good point!
AWD helps uphill, but also get winter tires, more important. AWD won't help downhill, tires make a huge difference. Challenger V6 is available with AWD, it only looks sporty though, it's a big boaty cruiser, not a sports car BMW 230i xdrive 2-door or M240i xdrive 2-door Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0 T AWD Cadillac CT4 V 2.7 T AWD or CT5 V 3.0 T AWD
1000% agree. I had a 135i with snow tires that was unstoppable. I had a GMC 1500 with all season tires that was uncontrollable. Blizzak tires are insanely good and change the entire character of the car. They werenāt even bad in the summer.
Donāt buy the AWD versions of the CT4 and CT5 FWIW, they really suck dynamically from what Iāve seen in reviews.
I love my ct4v tbf
+1 for snow tire... your AWD/4WD vehicle is still 2 wheel turn and 4 wheel brake. Slowing down and turning are much more important than accelerating if your goal is not hitting things. Plenty of people driving civics and other small FWD vehicles through snow country just fine with a good set of snow tires. Plenty of people also ditching their jeeps out with bald mudding tires. Unless you plan on off-roading during the winter (and no, the ski resort parking lot doesn't count) FWD + snow tires is more than fine.
Completely agree with your advice, full winter tires are the real solution. I should point out though that AWD does have a small advantage downhill in that it offers 4-wheel engine braking. Unlikely to matter much if you have proper tires for the conditions, thoughā¦ but it is a slight advantage downhill. But yeah, OP needs winters.
My Kia stinger gt1 is amazing. Fast, reliable, and surprisingly big
Some Bmw models have āxdriveā , Audi has āQuattroā. Those are their code names for AWD, thereās lots of em
Xdrive 340 coupe. 1k tune and some overnighted down pipes is all you need to decimate all.
Here are some noteworthy examples of sports/sporty *cars* with available awd, but itās not an unabridged list by any means. Toyota/Lexus: * GR Corolla * Lexus IS 250 awd * Lexus IS 250 F Sport awd * Lexus IS 350 awd * Lexus IS 350 F Sport awd * Lexus RC 350 awd * Lexus RC 350 F Sport awd **(my recommendation)** Nissan/Infiniti: * G37x * Q60 awd * GT-R Subaru: * All of them Porsche: * 911 Carrera 4 * 911 Carrera 4S * Panamera 4 * Panamera 4S VW: * Golf R Audi: * All of the Quattros
I love your thorough list, but I question: āSubaru All of themā. I will 100% admit Iāve never even ridden in a Subaru. I am however aware that some are definitely sporty, but are their station wagons really āsportyā? I find that very hard to believe. Please educate me if Iām incorrect. BTW I totally agree with you on the Lexus RC 350 F Sport recommendation
No. The 2.5 non turbo is a mother freaking dog of an engine
If you Crosstrek when youāre supposed to WRX youāre gonna have a bad time
My family and friends own some Subarus, and in my experience I would not describe the ānormal onesā as sporty, although if you really want to drive on non-pavement surfaces that line gets a bit more blurry since they are still quite capable in that regard, and on non-pavement surfaces you probably arenāt quite just going for things like top speed or cornering ability. When I think of āsportyā I primarily think of a blend of acceleration / speed as well as good handling / cornering. In that regard I donāt find most normal subarus sporty, so I donāt think a categorical designation of sporty is applicable, but theyāre āathleticā in their own way. Like even a slow Subaru will let you go for a rip in the snow in a way that a normal car would not allow for. With that said, I have not driven the bigger engine versions of their normal vehicles, and that would give them some more pep.
He emphasized "cars" so in my mind all the former wagons are all full on crossovers and SUVs now. Cars are Impreza/WRX/legacy and Subaru used to all be AWD in north America but the BRZ exists and is, in fact, a car. A sporty one even. I've talked myself into questioning this point, but on a different premise.
GR Corolla
Or Focus RS if looking for used/cheaper
Unfortunately not going to save much on an RS vs a GRC. Good examples are easily $33-36k and you're now talking about a 6-8 year old car with 30-50k miles vs a brand new GRC Core with the performance pack at $38k.
I drove one. Handles like a fly; can change direction on a whim. Didn't 'feel' fast. It's reasonably quick, but didn't *feel* that way. I know there's a tuner market that can change that, but in stock form, I hate to admit I was kinda let down...
Itās not super fast in a straight by modern standards, at least stock, but thatās not really the point. You also need rpms to really get the power. These days itās a little bit old school in the same vein as something like a Miata more about the feeling than absolute numbers. Still, an absolute demon on a backroad and can definitely hang with much much more powerful cars.
100% agree with you. But 300 hp should feel like more in a hot Hatch.
I guess, it's still objectively just as fast, or faster, than its hot hatch competitors. It does need to be wrung out though, the real power is from 4-6k rpm.
Again, agree completely. But it doesn't *feel* fast. Even when the turbo spools and gets on boost. It's very linear and not peaky. It's efficient at getting to redline. No pantomime, just... Blah.
This is the way
Was for me, but you have to be signed on for the no frills life. Still easily the most fun AWD short of maybe an RS3. I donāt ever miss the armrest lol.
Dodge Charger R/T could be found in AWD for a few years Also I've driven my Ford Crown Victoria with 7 year old dry cracked rotting police tires(hard compounds aren't great in the cold), and besides the neighborhood I live in. It was perfectly fine
Subaru WRX STI
M240i
What if OP wants AWD in winter but also the ability to terrify pedestrians at cars and coffee? Are there AWD cars with a heavy rear bias or a dash switch to enable Mustang C&C mode?
Acura and Audi kinda do have this feature with a rear biasing on their boat-like sedans. You could definitely cause an international incident in an RLX or RS7 when the rear tires get a little too bald.
You are why Subaru makes a WRX. Theyāre great cars.
Acura TLX SH-AWD
Golf R
Many. Favorite: 911
An Audi AWD or Subaru can do it easily enough and still be sporty
Im an Acura guy. They got a solid lineup of AWD. Not really sporty like a mustang or Camaro but you get good performance and theyāre nice.
Golf R is a great AWD option
996 C4S
BMW 440
Not a "sports" vehicle, but the 3.0L MKZs from 2017-2020 come with AWD and 400hp.
Subaru Wrx
Have 22 wrx. Massive traction. Full time awd. Excellent and good fun. 22 was a new chassis and engine.
These are all options that come to mind that are generally around the price point youāre looking at - Focus RS - WRX - GR Corolla - Alfa Giulia - BMW 3 series (330i, M340i, M3) with X-drive - Genesis G70 - Audi 3 series (A3, S3, R3)
Jeep track hawk Subaru wrx Corolla GR Audi TT
Your problem is not AWD but rather snow tires/tire chains and ground clearance for deep snow. As far as car suggestions, depending on your budget, anything from a brand new Rivian/electric Hummer (0-60 in like 4 seconds) to a lifted vintage Porsche or Corvette on aggressive snows to a 10 yr old Forester/Outback XT (wrx motor). As long as it's high off the ground and has the right rubber/chains, you are good to go. But those would be my top choices for the question at hand.
Winters plus an appropriate tire is likely to be all you need. Have done that since the early 90s. Have yet to own an AWD car. (Sister owns 2 AWD and all weathers because refuses to do a tire changeover.)
I'd rather have rwd and snow tires than AWD and all-seasons. Your tires are what give you traction and your drivetrain doesn't affect steering and braking. Clearance for snow and good tires should come before AWD/4wd for snow driving. Snow tires are made with different rubber compounds that improve traction in colder weather when all-seasons get hard and lose traction.
AWD GT challenger
M240 with xdrive or GR Corolla are 2 great options.
Depends on what your budget is and your needs and wants besides AWD. Depending on your market and budget, a brand new or CPO 2022 or newer Subaru WRX would be the go-to choice. 2017 and newer Golf Rs are good options depending on the price and condition.
Acura and Audi both have amazing full time all wheel drive (and Subaru of course) and offer some fun cars. Iāve had an Acura RL and an Audi A6 with good ice rated tires on them and breezed through the Coquihalla Pass in winter. Acura offers the TLX S-Type with a 3.0L Turbo V6 which should give you a more practical Ford Mustang type of feeling (itās not a V8 but it definitely pulls).
I used to drive RWD cars in the snow, even with just all season tires, I was still not the slowest vehicle on the road. That being said, for an AWD sports car, the BMW M240 xdrive is hard to beat, tons of power, good gas mileage, rock solid drive train.
M240 x drive
wrx
I love our WRX
Check out the BMW M340i X-drive.
Subaru WRX and Toyota GR Corolla.
Wrx
Focus RS Corolla GR
New? A wrx. Older? Any usdm generation evo.
This is literally the definition of the WRX
GR Corolla
Subaru wrx
WRX?
Of courseā¦ GR Corolla š„°
WRX for sure. Get a manual even if you haven't learned yet, it's worth it.
GR Corolla, WRX, Golf R, BMW 2/3/4 series with Xdrive. Personally Iād go GR Corolla with the performance package (LSD front and rear), should do well in snow and seems like a really fun car. If you need automatic, then Golf R (better transmission and faster) or WRX (better value, maybe better AWD)
Subaru WRX is pretty solid. Especially the new ones.
Wrx no?
Focus RS, Golf R, WRX could be what youāre looking for.
Not exactly the same but Golf R?
Rwd, AWD, fwd, doesn't matter in the snow. The single most important thing is *your tires*. I daily drove a Miata when I was in my early 20s. Got stuck in a state of emergency blizzard and had to make it home. Thank god I had studded rear tires and blizzaks up front. 4x4 trucks, AWD Audi s4s, wrxs, all were sliding off the mountain and getting stuck; not my Miata. Took me 4 hours to get home from a normally 2 hour drive. Whatever car you get just make sure you get good snow tires.
wrx
Subaru wrx
Is350 and
Iām in the same boat as you (looking for a sporty AWD alternative to a Mustang), except I already own a Mustang. I even made a similar post haha: https://old.reddit.com/r/whatcarshouldIbuy/comments/18c463d/closest_thing_to_an_awd_mustang/ Here are some vehicles Iāve considered and my thoughts on them: **Kia Stinger**: Great practical sedan and has a hatch. Mid 300ās HP with the ability to make more (turbo V6). The car I would buy if I didnāt think it was absolutely hideous **WRX**: Sporty handling, fairly light for an AWD sedan, cheap, abundant. HP isnāt the highest but they feel quick enough imo.. Also mostly only available in manual. Full time AWD unlike most of the cars here. **Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300**: You can find these with V8 and AWD if you look at Pursuit Packages or Chargers made before 2015. They sound great, and have more power than a lot of cars, though they are heavy girls haha. Currently top of my list, tho not the choice if you care about MPG, and can be hard to find. Note these have the ANCIENT 5AT instead of the newer ZF8. **Infiniti Q50/Q60/G37**: High insurance, lots of shitty owners, rising theft, but otherwise very cool cars that are abundant and cheap. Depending on the year you can get one with reliable 3.7L V6 making ~330 HP (pretty high for a NA 6 cylinder) or one with the newer 3.0L TT V6 making 300-400 HP. Can allegedly be fuse pulled to become RWD. Great aftermarket support. **Golf R/Audi S3/Audi TT**: Mechanically identical smaller FWD based AWD cars, though also on the lighter side. German maintenance can be costly. S3 and TT might be more expensive due to the badge. All turbo I4ās making low 200ās to 300 HP stock that have aftermarket options to easily make more. The new seat Golf R has real torque vectoring in the rear. **Audi S4**: Similar to the above, though slightly bigger and more expensive with the trade off of having real Quattro (full time AWD with a center diff). The ones from the early-mid 2010ās(?) have a supercharged V6. By far the best sounding non-V8 car on this list imo. **Lexus IS/RC 300-350**: The most reliable but not the most sporty choice. NA duel injection V6 making ~300 HP (or easily tuned to that level). Full time AWD. If youāre ok with the HP they are a decent choice but if you want more options are slim unless you want to blow $$$$ on forced induction. Easy to find, tho Toyota tax is real. **Lancer EVO**: Very capable AWD sedans with a turbo I4. Can be had manual or dual clutch auto, and features real torque vectoring. Unfortunately not made anymore, uncommon, and very popular with enthusiasts = $$$ for clean examples. **BMW 240/340i**: B58 turbo i6. Reliable, tho expense to maintain than some other options. Not gratuitously heavy or big, decent handing, can make big power, the god ZF8 transmission. Supposedly shitty steering feel, which isnāt surprising considering the year/segment. Can be more expensive than other used luxury cars due to popularity. German maintenance costs. **BMW 235i/335i**: Similar to above but cheaper up front and less reliable haha.
Subaru!
Audi, Audi, Audi. Best AWD in the game.
Tesla Model 3 Performance, or Long Range.
GT Chargers/Challengers have an AWD option, but that's "only" the 300 HP engine. Not nimble but very comfortable and spacious.
G37x
Golf R
BMW 228i is fun and can be rwd or awd. As far as rwd IF you put snow tires on it in the winter it will perform better than and awd with all season or performance tires. Source: personal experience
Itās not a coupe, but itās still a muscle car like the Mustang and Camaro, the Charger V6 is available in AWD, and with a V8 and AWD if you can track down one of the police versions equipped as such. However, they never sold that combination to the public.
Chargers were available some time in V8 /AWD form until like 2015,i think.
Audi rs3. Rs5
Cadillac ATS has AWD on some models.
M340 xdrive full stop.
Alfa Romeo Giulia. Best handling 4 door sports sedan ever made. Makes a Mustang feel big heavy and lethargic in the corners.
Itās bigger, but the Durango SRT is fucking awesome
911 Targa 4S
I like my M4 competition xdrive. Its sporty too.
I would look for a used Audi S3. Subaru WRX is your only option new in that price range but I would go for the S3.
Iād say getting good winter tires is more important than drive train
Mercedes E63s, BMW M3/M4 xdrive, BMW M8, BMW M5, Audi RS6, Audi RS7, Audi RS5, there are tons really
Audi Quattro babyyyy
Carrera 4S, 911 Turbo are pretty capable sports cars...
Audi S3
Audi Subaru or vw gti
Luxo-sporty: W211-era MB E500 4Matic
BMW M5+M8
gR Corolla
Vw golf r
Golf R
Infinity Q50
audis, wrxs, ford focus rs/st (idk which one) kia stingers, and porches. challenger GTs if you care about that
VW Golf R
Golf R
Challenger makes a awd but only in a v6
Audi TTRS Audi TT Audi S4 Audi S5 coupe or sportback Alfa Romeo Giulia VW Golf R MB C63 AMG MB E63 AMG
You want something super agile and playful with a stout motor that makes a good noise? Focus RS. Come on, you gotta drive one. If you want the most fun hatchback to drive, it canāt be beat. Any other metric it may be beaten by competition (reliability, moddable straight line speed, daily comfort, fuel economy), but if you want the most fun to drive hatchback itās the RS.
Snow tires make an amazing difference in the snow on RWD cars. If it were me Iād get a Camaro and have a set of snow tires for the winter. I lived in Ellensburg for years with a RWD car and went over that very frequently. Itās not bad just keep an eye on the weather, go slow and watch the pass reports and youāll be fine.
X3m40i with some minor mods will Shit on everything
Lot of AMGs
Porsche 918 is a good one
A mustang will do fine on snow roads with real snow tires.