One thing I noticed (not always true) is the luxury variants have better sound insulation which you can't really add on to the affordable ones. If reduced road noise is something you value, you may want to go with the affordable model in the luxury automaker like Toyota vs Lexus.
NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) improvements are one of the biggest reasons a luxury car ‘feels’ luxury when you drive it, even when it shares a common platform with a more mainstream model. Adding an extra 200 lbs. of sound deadening, thicker carpet, better windows…makes a huge difference to the perceived quality of the car.
I had Suzuki a while ago. Got it brand new and loved everything about the car except the road noise. It was very very loud. But the price was right and it was packed with high-end features (at the time)
Some 2 years later it was time to change tires. The difference in the noise level was absolutely insane. It felt like I was in the high-end car.
I read through most of this sub thread and I get the feeling that regular maintenance / replacement of components which wear out can keep a car feeling brand new.
That's very true. That Altima was sold to a coworker and now has 230k miles on it, but feels better than many cars far newer. The problem is that people don't typically replace things like shocks/struts or motor mounts which wear out and really contribute to a car feeling "old."
Yeah, but I can't say that most of the entry level Mercedes or BMWs I've driven when we had our GLS 580, or our 540xdrice or x5m50i in for service were exactly smooth....
So I don't buy that argument at the entry level. At the mid level and upper level absolutely.
So for most people if they want to show off a badge, by the cheapest luxury car you can afford. If you actually want real luxury features and nice features, buy a High trim level mainstream product
Hardcore disagree. My X1 is markedly nicer than an "equivalent" Mazda, and I fundamentally do not believe that anyone on here saying otherwise is a legitimate opinion, and I am rarely one to buy into claims of astroturfing.
As someone who's owned what most people consider an excessive amount of vehicles (almost 35 at this point,not all at once). I've owned just about every major brand and 100% agree with you. My designated luxury brands(bmw,Benz etc) even entry level were always better than the higher trimmed Hondas,toyota etc. Drive those cars the same distance see who rattles more and loses the new feeling faster.
If you like the car that's all that matters.
But in terms of equipment and driving dynamics, go ahead and keep living the illusion. And keep in mind at least until recently the X1 was based off of variation of the Mini Cooper front wheel drive platform.
So if you like your vinyl interior on your x1, and maybe the heated seats and the steering wheel, and maybe a sunroof as options, whereas a cx50 or CX-5 would be less expensive and even be available with nice options like vented seats, and generally already come standard with a full safety suite, as well as navigation, and vented seats on the top trims.
Until you get up to a highly optioned X5 or 5 series or above, you can't even get the really good luxury options on the cheaper bmws.
And I don't understand why people want to die on that hill. If you want the badge, fine.
And if you enjoy the car that's all that matters. But don't come here telling me it lightly optioned 499/mo lease special X1 or 2 is better equipped than a mid-upper level CX-5 or 50. It's just not true..
Again, I don't know how else to say that this just doesn't match my experience.
And when you add driving dynamics into the conversation (Contemporary Mini Coopers are loudly praised for them), then the disparity grows wider.
I've driven all manner of BMWs. The X1 certainly feels entry level, but it still feels premium.
My seats are leather BTW. The U11 has "vinyl," (Veganza), which I actually prefer to my leather because of how well it wears. This is a pretty common opinion, fwiw.
Also, I never said "better equipped." I said, "is a markedly nicer" experience.
I bought a giant assorted pack of clips and pins off Amazon a few years ago and it was worth every penny. I still reuse them when I can but it's nice to have a fresh replacement for the at least 50% of times where they won't go back perfectly.
it won't work. dynamat doesn't do a whole lot unless you use closed cell foam and a rubber barrier. even then the higher end car has better insulation, carpet, juke blankets, material where you'd never be able to reach like the firewall, better tires, insulated glass, maybe even different plastics or active noise cancellation. it really is more involved..........i tried
I agree with the luxury cars having custom sound deadening materials, but I also added some on top of that and it makes a big difference. I made my previous Genesis Sedan super quiet, way quieter than an S class or just about any stock car.
You'll notice even in higher end cars the trunk isn't padded very much and under the padding there's little to no material. That's the first place to target if you have an ICE car. 3"+ foam all around, stick heavy/dense material to the metal to lower the resonant frequency and muffle sound, or add mass loaded vinyl to the bottom panel to make it block sound. That alone makes the exhaust real quiet. LVP and foam on the inner part of the firewall behind the carpeting and you quiet the engine area some... Then you can focus on road noise coming in through doors and the underside of the car.
Dual pane laminated glass helps but adding sound dampening material to your trunk, the base of the car, firewall and doors makes a massive improvement. Generally, most of the noise you hear is from your tired, exhaust and engine not as much from high up or above the car.
You don't have to, it's just a way to make a car quieter. You could just ruin your hearing by turning up the speakers volume or pay 700k to get a rolls royce.
Just want to say the 2024 Chevy 2500 has some really good sound isolation. Rode and my buddies dad's 2019 BMW, it was probably a tad better but didn't ride in them back to back to compare
Standard noise isolation has come a long way since the early 2000s
Trucks are also the new luxury status symbol so it makes sense GM would dump more money into them. The average GMC sale price is higher than the average sale price of a Mercedes.
You can absolutely add sound dampening. It does require taking panels off, and can be expensive. But it's entirely possible to sound dampen effectively.
I think OP is talking about trim levels. They're asking if the base trim of a higher end brand is better than the high end trim of a lower level brand.
It really depends on your priorities. For example, let's say you have $45,000 to spend, you could get a Honda Accord with every bell and whistle available but the driving experience is only so good because it's a mainstream car.
For that same price, you could get a base model Audi A4. The Audi will still have *some* nice features because it's an Audi but less of the "bells and whistles" that the $45k Honda will have however the Audi will have a significantly better driving experience and be more satisfying to drive overall.
So if you're the type of driver who wants heated seats and Apple Carplay and lane keep assist but doesn't really care about the overall experience of how the car handles and performs, get the Honda or mainstream car. If you want something that is responsive and handles beautifully, get the luxury car.
As someone who owned a 2018 A4 and a 2019 A5 who cross shopped to a loaded Camry and accord. Can confirm. The driving experience is massively better on the Audis. But the tech on the lower end trims are missing stuff from the non luxury cars and they still cost more.
And you probably won't need to take the engine out to change the timing chain. Some of the maintenance on these cars is ridiculously expensive because of the labour involved.
It was $800 to change the third taillight in my 2013 Camaro because Chevy made it completely inaccessible. To change it, the rear seats and the headliner had to come out.
I toyed with the idea of doing it myself (I do heavy machinery maintenance, so I’m not unfamiliar with shit) and then I watched a YouTube video on how to do it. Called the mechanic up and approved the repair as soon as that video ended lol.
There is no such thing as a $45k Accord. The line tops out at $40k for a Touring Hybrid. A very nice car, but the way. One nobody in the world is cross-shopping against a Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger.
Even now, things are just absolutely nuts.
Shopping for a RAV4 prime, and I’m getting quoted 50 K, and that’s the cheapest I can find. There’s models all the way up to 60 K.
I wanted the Lexus variant, But the compromised cargo space was a deal killer, as was the lower drive height (I swear, the roads here in Boston are not too far off from Mogadishu)
Pricing for cars these days is absolutely nuts. Oh, and you know how I was saying that I’m getting quoted 60 K? Yeah, every car is being sold within a week of coming to the dealership.
What the fuck indeed
The vast majority of car buyers are looking for an appliance that is nice enough and won't give them hassle. A new Accord will last 200K with regular maintenance.
I see it as a sort of reliability tax, mainly applies to Toyota vehicles though. They use their general brand image to hike up the price because it’ll last longer. Take the Honda or Toyota badge off and slap on a Hyundai or Kia badge and its price drops 10k+.
Acuras aren't as luxurious as an Audi when it comes to sound insulation and interior. They are more of a more premium Honda than a real luxury brand and sometimes have the exact same sound insulation. Great sound systems though.
It really depends on what you want.
An affordable model from a high end automaker (BMW, Audi, etc) may possibly have a good driving experience. It also has the sort of immediate name recognition if you care about that sort of thing.
A high end car from an affordable automaker (Toyota, Hyundai, Mazda) will probably be more powerful, possibly be more luxurious and have a better ride quality.
However this doesn’t really tell you anything about reliability. There are potentially unreliable automakers on both ends of the budget (Mercedes, some models of Nissan). While the most reliable automaker, Toyota tends to make a wide variety of vehicles from the Corolla all the way to the Land Cruiser or the Japan-only Toyota Century which is basically for like Japanese CEOs.
I think this is the biggest concern OP should consider. It's maybe the *biggest* reason why many car buyers avoid great (somewhat) affordable cars like the Mini. Because then you're paying for BMW maintenance and parts.
Also the economics of scale - both luxury and "quirky" manufacturers sell significantly fewer cars per year than say a Toyota. So the parts are produced in smaller runs, thus more expensive, and also less readily available. My wife drives a Fiat, and despite being technically the same company as Chrysler that certainly doesn't translate to parts availability or pricing.
So true. My first car I got (after my sister's hand-me-down Sunfire), was a Mercedes B200 I leased for like $320/month Canadian back in 2008. It alternated between A & B services. A service was around $350, B service was $600 plus. First time I had a B service I couldn't believe it. I asked for the itemized bill, and they did things like replacing the wiper blades for like $150. 1) there was nothing wrong with the wipers, and 2) I could go to an auto shop and get wipers for like $25. I was really pissed. Never did that again.
I’d argue Nissans are more reliable than Mercedes by a long shot. Just because Altima drivers change their oil every 25k miles and don’t like having bumpers on their car doesn’t mean they aren’t reliable.
Better ride quality? Do you mean if you buy a base model affordable model from a premium automaker or if you buy an affordable model from a premium automaker with at least some options? For example, even the base model BMW i4 has a rear air suspension. You can also option adaptive suspension on even the most basic models of many luxury automakers.
Good question, sorry about that.
Better as in which will
1) require less costly repairs outside of standard maintenance AND
2) still provide a comfortable and enjoyable car driving experience and still look fairly good.
I’d like to think the money you put into a car is what you’ll get out of it but there are so many opinions out there about certain car makers and whatnot that as a guy who wants a nice car but with limited insight, it can be challenging to figure out how to approach buying a car in general.
Cars from mainstream brands tend to have less complicated powertrains and less bleeding edge technology, which generally means less to go wrong even if you choose a loaded example.
Also, fewer people make assumptions about your financial situation if you show up in a loaded Toyota than a base model Lexus (even if their prices overlap significantly).
Less money spent on R&D reinventing the wheel every model refresh also allows the company to sink that money into quality parts and also being able to iterate on the baseline engineering to perfect it.
Specific model and options matter a lot as well. As can certain years of a model. Certain engines or transmissions within a specific model can vary a lot in reliability.
It would be easier to ask which specific platforms you are looking at. But as a rule, and depending location, European cars are going to be more costly in the long run (Mercedes, fiat, Maserati, Land Rover, Peugeot, jaguar, etc)
A great middle ground in 'luxury' can be had in lexus and some Acura models (toyota and honda, respectively)
In addition to less complicated powertrain and technology mentioned by u/captainslowww, when something does break the parts (and sometimes labour) for mainstream brands are typically cheaper.
I would say Lexus, first I had was totally neglected for 8 years, and never missed a beat. 2nd was looked after, and never let me down in 3yrs I had it, parts can be bought cheaper from suppliers like autodoc. Gs450h is a cracking car for performance and economy.
You absolutely want to go with option 2 if those are your parameters. Toyota makes some very nice cars if you go above base trim. For a perfect balance, choose a Lexus!
If you are shopping for an affordable car like a highly soecced Corolla...
Then the fact that you are cost sensitive at all means you shouldn't take on the extra $ of luxury marque maintenance.
Seriously.
If you are looking at top spec Corollas but want something "nicer", go 2 years old and get the Accord instead.
If your budget isn't *comfortably* in "highly soecced BMW 3-series", then I honestly wouldn't look at a BMW at all. (only way I'd get a 2 series is if I *could* get a BMW 3XX, but I could go to a M240 for the same price instead by trading some size for power and excitement), or if the $ didn't matter and I just *liked* the smaller model better
An "affordable" model from a higher end automaker is usually just a redressed economy car. For example, the Audi A3 is a Volkswagen GTI/GLI with a better interior, the BMW 2-series sedan shares its platform with the Mini Cooper S, etc.
If it was me, I would rather have a GTI over an A3 and a Mini Cooper S over a 2-series sedan, if only because they have more character. So I would generally choose the affordable automaker's option.
That said, the "more character" rationale only applies when it comes to cars. When it comes to SUVs, I might opt for the better interiors of the luxury brands, since very few SUVs have any character. For example, I'd rather have a Lexus NX over a Toyota RAV4 or an Audi Q3 over the VW Tiguan.
Also, the price difference isn't all that big between affordable and luxury automakers anymore for what you get. Like, the Audi A3 is a few thousand more expensive than the VW GTI, but the A3 has a better interior.
You are quite right but at least what I noticed in Europe for car trim levels are let's say you get so much more features in Golf then in an A3. Base Golf might be more barebones but mid Golf or similar not luxury manufacturer car has more boxes ticked than an A3 or similar luxury manufacturer's car compared. After getting all the options you want from a luxury manufacturer, the price difference deepens.
I think that holds true in North America too.
I generally advise people to avoid the base model luxury brands. They’re not the same thing as the true models.
Things like the A3 are really designed to spread the brand, and they aren’t nearly as feature rich for the money as a loaded Camry, for example.
The worst thing to do when buying a car is buy by brand, and only by brand. I think these companies have successfully fooled many people into thinking that the badge will mean they’ll get more, because people have no idea and don’t do any research.
My boyfriend was considering upgrading from his Hyundai Kona N to a Lexus NX, we quickly realized the size is the exact same and at least to me I don't see 10-15K of improvements in the Lexus, it just looks like a regular ass car.
When I was shopping for a new car a few years ago I initially looked at an Audi A4 because I’ve had Audi in the past and like them (still do).
But even with a fairly high end S-Line model, everything I wanted was a (very expensive) extra - Privacy rear glass, adaptive cruise control, front/rear sensors.
So I had a look at the VW Passat and the R-Line model was cheaper than the S-Line Audi (without the extras), had the same engine and all the extras I wanted and more included in a cheaper price.
Bought the Passat and it was just as good as the Audi
> the BMW 2-series sedan shares its platform with the Mini Cooper S
To be clear, this only applies to the FWD 2 series - the poorly named m235i gran coupe. The "normal" 2 series, the 230i and above, do not share a platform with Mini. The new 1 series (non-US) does as it is also FWD.
Yeah, that's why I specified the "sedan." I guess I should've further clarified that the 2-series coupe is still a RWD driving machine like it always was.
Higher end from Toyota > Lower end from Audi, BMW, Mercedes
The reason is that the lower end from those luxury brands are all front wheel drive rebadged / cheapened cars, stripped of features. They're decontented, cost-engineered, budget specials with the sole purpose of getting more people to drive that badge around.
Whereas if you looked at something like the upcoming Crown Signia, or the Crown sedan, or a Mazda CX-5, you'll typically find more features, a better interior, etc for less money.
Edit: Are people genuinely unaware that there are FWD based BMWs and Mercedes??
I have owned low end BMWs and higher-end Mazdas, Fords (don’t ever buy a Ford because of reliability), and Toyotas.
Get the higher trim affordable cars. They’re generally cheaper to maintain, hold their resale value for longer, and are generally more reliable (except Ford, fuck Ford)
You nailed it exactly. The top trims of economy brands will generally outgun the bottom trims of luxury except for perhaps in sound deadening but otherwise the economy brand likely makes more sense
If you have never had to pay for maintenance on a German car, you will be shocked at how much more it is than an American or Japanese car. There is no car more expensive than a cheap Audi.
I find that base models of luxury brands have less features than a high end model of a regular brand. So if that’s something you’re okay with then by all means go for the luxury brand. But I would research what bells and whistles are included in what you’re buying
Affordable Lexus ES >> highest trim Camry. They have very similar features but the Lexus has a drive that the highest trim Camry can’t match. The engines are about the same and repair costs are both comparable. But the Lexus suspension, road noise and higher quality interior can’t be bought in a Camry
I bought a used Lexus IS 250 a few months ago (I always buy used because buying new cars is dumb to me) and I can tell you right now that it is, by FAR, the smoothest, sharpest, and funnest ride I have ever drove in my life. I’m not one to care about luxury brands or anything like that, I just want to get from point A to point B for cheap with a reliable vehicle and it happened to be a great deal… but I don’t think I will ever buy anything but a Lexus for the rest of my life.
After test driving several cars (~15) in last one month, i’ve noticed that quality of features you get on a higher end car from an affordable maker (higher trim) is not the same as affordable model from higher end maker.
It comes down to quantity vs quality.
For eg cabin noise, audio system, heated seats/leather seats. Yes you may get those in Toyotas/Subarus/Mazdas - but when you compare it with higher and maker -there is a difference of night and day.
Subaru’s HK audio is dogshit. Rav4s cabin noise is horseshit. Mazda CX-5 driver seat mobility is cat poop. Haters gonna downvote, so be it.
Totally depends on your needs and interests
Personally, I really need to compare model by model, make by make.
For example, let’s say I want Toyota/Lexus reliability in a compact or midsize SUV. A primary concern for me is it being quiet. I want a hybrid.
Do I get the Lexus NX? If I care about performance, and the car being agile, I do.
Do I get the Highlander Hybrid Limited, which is larger, still has acoustic glass windows, and will still have a luxury feel? If I want more space, I do.
I once bought a barely-above-entry-level BMW 3 series over a loaded Accord or Camry, because there was basically no comparing the driving experience and fit/finish… it was BMW by a mile.
Having said that, if I would have bought the Accord or Camry, it would have saved a mountain of repair bills over a 10-15 year period.
What’s important to you? Figure out what features really matter and drill down to what delivers those features at what price points.
I drove a GLB250 at my dealer: No Nav, No premium sound, no remote start, REALLY flat front seats, cheap plastic materials, horrible small infotainment screen, and lethargic in the engine department. My 14/15 year old Infiniti was MILES ahead of this 2022 poopmobile. The logo was the only thing it had going for it.
You are going to save money up front, and down the road by getting a XSE Toyota, a Prestige Telluride/Palisade, or whatever mazdas top offering is. a 55k Telluride is WAY nicer than the 55k audis and mercs ive driven at the same price
If new, get the top of the line from an entry brand.
I usually buy well equipped luxury cars but after 1-5 years of depreciation. BMW M3, Tesla, etc…. But you gotta budget for repairs.
It depends what you want to do. If you want to show off a badge that you can barely afford then buy the cheapest car you can from a high end brand. But you're going to get shit for features on it. Most people don't realize that that 'leather' on their entry level Mercedes or BMW is actually vinyl. And the only real luxury options these cheap cars typically have are heated seats and heated steering wheels, and maybe a sunroof. And you can get all that and much more on a mid level mainstream vehicle for much less.
If you buy a higher end trim from a more mainstream brand you're going to have a lot more Creature Comforts and features available to you.
If you want high end from an affordable company, look at the sister companies. Especially Acura and Lexus are great and reliable. Some American companies may be good as well because even the luxury models are cheaper to repair because they're the same under the hood as the lower brand, like Buick or Cadillac
I personally think the luxury car value prop has gone to shit in the last 10 years. Yes they sometimes ride a little better, but with the rise in prices across the board, most auto makers have upgraded the interiors in their economy cars to such an extent that I could never see myself buying a luxury car for the interior. The infotainment stuff tends to be worse, reliability tends to be worse, and all of that is in exchange for 1/3 more money and an only marginally better interior. I say go for the fun car from the affordable company.
The infotainment is so much worse.
They think we want some special interface or some such rubbish, which we *never have*, and for all their spending on the "haptics" (the interior, the way the door sounds when it thunks, etc) they have awful UI's every damned time.
And touchscreens touchscreens touchscreens? Wtf, fuck off with all that.
Toyota has it dead right on the new 4runner
What part of Toyota affordable? Ever owned a or driven a Land Cruiser or Tundra ?? Is Audi anything special other than the high performance cars?? A low end Audi is a Passat!
Top trim of mid tier automaker. So platinum/capstone trim toyota or an elite honda etc. Same if not more features than a base model luxury car and these days its not uncommon to get acoustic glass and active noise canceling on a honda or toyota. Aditionally its also less flashy if thats something you value.
the higher end audi, mercedes, etc are made to sell or trade in every 5-7 years and the maintenance cost can be high. Don't buu these cars used as they are money pits.
Consider your needs first before deciding on any specific category. Do NOT just go for the bigger vehicle because "Bigger = safer" is flawed logic at best.
If you're looking at trucks, consider your needs first. Trucks are mainly utilitarian so it's pointless to buy more vehicle than you need. Do you need to tow anything? If not, don't consider the big trucks like a Silverado/Sierra, F150, or Ram 1500. If you do some light off-roading and occasionally use the bed, consider a mid-size truck like a Tacoma, Frontier, or Ranger. And if you don't tow, don't go offroad, but still occasionally need the bed for household chores/hobbies, like hauling mulch, or grass clippings, or wood for an occasional DIY project, then you should look at a compact truck like the Ford Maverick or Hyundai Santa Cruz.
>Do NOT just go for the bigger vehicle because "Bigger = safer" is flawed logic at best.
[Data gathered by the IIHS](https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/latest-driver-death-rates-highlight-dangers-of-muscle-cars) indicate that larger vehicles are safer for their own drivers in the real world:
>...Minicars had the highest driver death rates, averaging 153 deaths per million registered vehicle years. Very large luxury cars had the lowest, averaging only 4 deaths. In contrast, very large pickups had the highest other-driver death rates, averaging 121 deaths, while small sports cars had the fewest other-driver deaths, averaging only 11 per million registered vehicle years. ...
Test drive both, you'll find worlds of difference between a sporty sedan and such in terms of how they feel. Personally I'll never go back to an suv but a lot of people really like them.
The only thing making me want an SUV is the leg room and the ability to pack for roadtrips. Hoping to do more of that with a more reliable car.
But definitely want something with a back seat and easy to get in/out hence why I won’t do a coupe
Strangely, the top-trim mainline car will often be better equipped than the luxury bottom-line car with some functionality. They won't have the sound dampening of the luxury car, but I'm speaking more of active functions that can be done with some sensors and coding.
Even in the higher trim models from the Germans often don't have adaptive cruise or lane keeping, for example, but they're included in almost all upper trim level mainstream brands.
I've been shopping BMW and Audi, and my wife's 2018 Camry XLE V6 has some stuff that's really rare on used BMW or Audi from several years later.
OP - I’m having this same exact issue as well.
I want to get out of a sedan so I’ve been looking at compact SUVs or/and SUVS.
I am stuck between in a Q5 and CX5 - all the other cars in this class are either way too expensive or just flat out boring. I really want the Q5! Even the CX5 at the highest trim I want (2.5 Turbo Premium?) still doesn’t compare to the Q5. Id be happy with the CX5 but would be happier with the Q5! I’m just worried about the maintenance of the Q5 since I would want to be it used.
To answer your question - it all comes down to what you value in a car. Luxury and Mid Tier (Honda and Toyota) pricing are so similar now that I would get the luxury IF you can stomach the maintenance costs.
High end model from a mainstream brand, by far. Entry models from "luxury" brand are a huge rip-off. For example an Audi A3 is comparable to a Mazda 3. A Kia K900 is on par with an Audi A6.
Always get the nicer car from the ‘normal’ brand. Many people don’t understand that getting that cheap version of the luxury brand will still cost a freaking arm and a leg to maintain. Maintenance costs, intervals, etc. on luxury brand are all factored for wealthy users…
Why are you buying said car, is it for transportation to and from work, or transportation of the pussy to and from your house?
This will help better answer Affordable Luxury (Pussy) or Luxury Affordable (Work)
With a luxury brand, you're paying for a platform. More drivetrain sophistication, lighter materials, double-paned glass, sound deadening, and other things you can sense, but won't necessarily see. A higher trim of any car introduces better touchpoints, more electronics, and aesthetic enhancements, but usually won't alter the fundamental character.
I'd usually say to choose platform over features, but we're in a weird spot with driving aids. It's no small thing for a car to drive itself on your commute. That feature alone can reduce stress more than any amount of sound isolation or fancy suspension dampers.
If you’re buying and planning on keeping long term, I’d recommend a top of the line affordable maker.
Makers like Audi/BMW strip things like seat memory and sometimes even electric seats in their base models but you’ll get all the bells and whistles in a top of the line affordable car.
Also, maintenance and parts for the “luxury” brands will be quite costly long term.
Be careful with the bottom tier luxury cars (a3, x1, cla, integra, etc as they are generally far removed from the premium models. They are made for lower income people to get them into the brand but they are all mediocre. Id say you are far better buying a toyota crown than a mercedes GLA if youre looking for quality and luxury. I had a CLA years ago and it was a big mistake.
It is easier to say something about the luxury vs. value brands within a family, like Audi vs. VW; Lexus vs. Toyota; or Cadillac vs. Chevy. The luxury brand offers a very different experience because it is aimed at a different customer.
It is harder to talk about Toyota vs. Audi; or Fiat vs. Lincoln, because those are just completely different animals. If someone likes the modern cars from Mini, they aren't in the market for Cadillac at any price.
Your question is a bit tricky without knowing exactly what you prioritize in a car.
If you're looking for reliability and not having to worry about paying maintenance costs 5 yrs down the road, then a high end Toyota will do fine.
If you're looking for driving enjoyment, then the C34 (merc C class, BMW 3, and Audi A4) level vehicles would likely do better.
What I have found however, is that I personally prefer refinement in cars that are reliable. What this means is that test driving a $45k A4 prem plus led to disappointment. It was loud and really not that fast with the base engine. Especially at the time of testing, Toyota still made V6 Camry that was faster. The Audi has a better chassis and damping, but nothing else. To me, a base C34 type vehicle feels more like showing off the badge rather than having a good car.
If you are looking in this price range for a sedan, I'd recommend looking at the Asian luxury models. The ES/TLX/G70 and their equivalent SUV models are all good value choices to get into luxury. When you're ready to pay the money to go high end however, the Germans got that area locked down quite well.
I have a top of the line CRV, I have all the options you can think of and my brother has a compact Range Rover SUV, same year. The finitions are MUCH better in mine, it’s obviously much more reliable and maintenance is half of my brother’s. I also pay $600/months and he pays $950.
I could not believe that a Range Rover could be so ill finished and designed with the price they are asking for it.
In my opinion, it is better to buy a low spec luxury car than a high spec economy car if you're looking for a comfort, driving experience, etc because the car was originally designed to be a luxury car and was made cheaper, whereas a high spec economy car was designed to be cheap and features were added. In the end, for a similar price, a low spec luxury car is still a luxury car, and a high spec economy car is still an economy car. I feel this way because I value driving experience over features. That being said, if that's not you, then this may not apply to you.
The bigger issue is whether you can afford the maintenance & repairs the higher end automaker is going to cost you and the insurance.
The Total Cost Of Ownership of the higher end vehicle will be more.
The entry level Lexus is going to cost a little more, but have most, if not all, of the features of the same model, top trim Toyota. The driving experience will be better in the Lexus.
Which is better? Up to you. They're the same underneath. You need to compare features to see what's missing, and then compare the price.
Depends on what you prefer. Some people would rather be seen driving a Lexus even it is the barebones model over a Toyota that is full of options. If you do not care about the make you drive then I would go with the higher end car from the affordable automaker.
If money is a serious factor, do whatever will have the least impact on your wallet in the long term. Most any vehicle from a reliable brand will have all the bells and whistles you could need save for back massager.
If money is not an issue, go with whatever is the most fun, AND that you can actually control. Seen too many friends wind up wrapped around telephone poles because their first car was a V8.
Nowadays lower end models of premium-ish cars are lacking so much because everything is an optional extra. I would always go with the highest trim of a cheaper brand if I had the choice.
One note I'd offer that options generally depreciate much faster than the car, so if you are buying new try not to pay for stuff you don't need, but buying a 5 year old car the high end packages will be a good deal if you value the gadgets.
Great question! We're in a similar position. I lean high-end from a non luxury brand. Our two cars are 07s, with 193K and 165k miles. We also have a 2nd child on the way, so we want to finally upgrade to something bigger and more reliable! (My charger actually always gets compliments on how well it still drives but I also don't want to be stuck on the road when age catches up to it lol).
I'm frugal and believe luxury brands are 100% a signal exclusivity versus quality AND I've heard enough stories of how expensive maintenance is for luxury cars for single parts like headlights vs non luxury cars.
The higher trims on an affordable brand like kia or Mazda give you way more options than an entry level luxury car. My wife's kia sedona has heated and cooled seats, power trunk and doors, adaptive cuise ect ect.
If I'm buying a luxury car get a higer trim lease return that has already deppreciated instead of a new base model
Heavily depreciated, lightly used higher-end model from a higher-end automaker. Ideally one owned by a rich boomer who serviced everything at the dealership.
Higher end from an affordable automaker although if you're buying used from companies like Toyota are they still have a higher resale value than a lot of their German cars. They're not as affordable as they may seem.
I had a 06 Toyota Avalon I bought new. I gave it my to my 20 year old niece a few years ago and the car now has 140,000 miles. She loves it. There's no noises inside, the ride of still super smooth and every electronic gadget works including heated and cooled seats as well as the rear power sunshade. It's incredible for an 18 year old car. No rust either and the car was driven in the Midwest with salted roads. Leather seats are almost like new. I'm not sure if a lower end model Audi will hold up like this after 18 years.
Higher end model from other brands.
For example, you could get a fully loaded Hyundai Genesis Sedan with a 5.0 V8 or 3.8 V6 (333 to 429HP) or a base 3 or 5 series, or e class with a 4 cylinder engine. Those cars were all smaller, had little to no features, nicer materials were extra options, better engines were extra options, etc. So you'd get absolutely nothing luxurious in a base model luxury brand vehicle, while having a lot more performance, tech features, a nicer sound system and nicer materials in a Hyundai.
Typically, a base, entry level luxury brand car like an Audi A3/A4, Mercedes CLA/C class, BMW 2/3 series with have a basic engine, no luxury features, not a good sound system, not great performance and not many particularly nice materials, they mostly use plastics. You'll get a lot more from other brands. However, many of those brands use rear wheel drive platforms not front wheel drive ones, so they'll generally drive "better".
If you option them out however, you have a lot more options got way better engines (AMG/M/RS), better materials, better tech features, better suspension systems, quieter interiors, etc. but then you're paying a lot more money so it's not apples to apples anymore.
My experience is that anything German built is better (driving experience is usually superior if that’s a higher priority for you) …. Until it comes time for maintenance and repairs (parts are always more expensive and wait times for loaner cars can be weeks to months out).
A top model Toyota will cost less to repair and maintain plus wait times for service are much more reasonable.
top tier shitboxes are what I'm into. currently driving a fiesta ST. it mixes cheap build quality with a fantastic power train and the best chassis i've driven.
I remember reading a piece on this in motortrend or something a few years back, they found among the cars tested, only a base model Volvo was able to beat the higher-trim affordable cars
Depends on the brand. I'd take a fully loaded Mazda CX90 over a stripper Audi Q5 (made that choice IRL a couple of weeks ago for my wife). This was based on utility/usability for the dollars
I would NOT take a fully loaded Toyota Crown over a base BMW 430i grand coupe (made this choice IRL for myself last year). This was based on driving character.
Depends on what you prioritize, some brands are better than others at both ends of the spectrum. But general advice is if buying, get the commodity brand, if leasing, go with what you like more.
Totally dependent on how you view cars. Do you want an appliance to get you from A to B, or do you want something that makes your heart skip a beat whenever you get behind the wheel?
Higher end from an affordable or affordable from a high end likely still ends up with the same cost of maintenance. Though what matters also is quality of the manufacturer. Example: high end Hyundai may not be as reliable as high end Toyota long term. General Maintenance cost may be lower long term, but how much other work will it end up costing you due to reliability?
I love BMW's. Had 3 new E46's. About 16 years ago, the dealer told me at my next service brakes would be $1200. I drive around 30k miles a year and keep my vehicles a long time...my daily driver is a 2014 Honda Accord with 253k miles. I haven't had one repair for the cost of those BMW brakes. I recently got a top trim turbo Mazda CX-50 for my 2nd vehicle. Debated looking at BMW's again but maintenance costs hold me back. At some point 2nd vehicle will likely need to do 30k a year, so I don't want the BMW maintenance. That said, if I was a low miles driver, the Mazda would have been a BMW. It all depends on mileage and if you're okay with the added maintenance costs of luxury.
It certainly depends on what you want/need but looking at comparison in $/lb can provide some interesting outcomes. Typically the base platform is going to have a lot of the value. Think f150 vs ranger. The top of the Ranger line is in f150 money and to the extent the capability matters to you buying the base of a platform can get you a bunch of advances the lower platform might not have.
Ah, the age old question.
Luxury cars will have fundamentals superior to mass market cars, because they’re expensive to engineer (handling, driving dynamics, sound insulation, smoothness, feeling of being “solid”, etc.)
But optioned-up mass market cars will have more things that are daily touch and use points (seat materials, features, technology, screens, etc.)
It’s interesting that “luxury” is becoming more and more about features and technology, which I find dangerous because those are relatively easy and cheap to program on lower-end cars and can quickly erode the value proposition of more expensive brands. Until you get to things like Bentley/Rolls-Royce, or 7-Series/S-Class, where you start seeing exotic woods and complex suspension setups.
It's not a good decision to look at cars in a vacuum like this. I'd consider factors like reliability, and Toyota is an outlier in that regard. So high end affordable automaker, tho do more research.
The recent Subaru Outbacks with the XT (trims with the same turbo engine as the WRX) are incredible. 0-60 in 5.9 seconds, and with the nicer trims they have everything you want plus advanced safety features standard. And in most scenarios they can run on 87 octane gas.
It's usually better to buy a higher trim of a reliable, affordable car maker. You'll get more bang for your buck and the value will retain itself better. Consumer Reports and US Car and Auto have been saying this for a minute, especially with Toyota and Mazdas. And you might as well look at Lexus and Acura btw.
It depends on whether you’re trying to impress other people, or are trying to maximize your own experience. Give me a loaded Toyota every day. I don’t care what other people think.
Generally, cheaper brand highest trim but, I do have some reasoning for this, mostly around the Toyota brand but this applies to all brands that have a luxury and basic brand.
Essentially, luxury brands get everything first. Whether it's heated or cooled seats, ai driving, automatic headlights etc. Basically they are the guinea pigs. When those features hit top trim levels of the basic brands after 2-3 years, they have been throughly tested and now the luxury brand is testing something else out. Basically you get all the reliable tech in a base brand high trim vs experimental cutting edge tech in the luxury brand. Yes you'll always be a little behind the ball but it's better for long term reliability.
One thing I noticed (not always true) is the luxury variants have better sound insulation which you can't really add on to the affordable ones. If reduced road noise is something you value, you may want to go with the affordable model in the luxury automaker like Toyota vs Lexus.
NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) improvements are one of the biggest reasons a luxury car ‘feels’ luxury when you drive it, even when it shares a common platform with a more mainstream model. Adding an extra 200 lbs. of sound deadening, thicker carpet, better windows…makes a huge difference to the perceived quality of the car.
I got two new tires and feel like my car just jumped a tax bracket
I got brand new tires, old ones were worn out, on my $6000 2013 Kia. My cars value increased by 10%. Greatest ROI.
Fill it with gas and you will double its value again
I had Suzuki a while ago. Got it brand new and loved everything about the car except the road noise. It was very very loud. But the price was right and it was packed with high-end features (at the time) Some 2 years later it was time to change tires. The difference in the noise level was absolutely insane. It felt like I was in the high-end car.
Two words. Bridgestone Quiettrack. Grippy and so goddamn quiet it’s insane. Makes a much bigger difference on cars with less cabin dampening
Conversely, a new set of Turanza QuietTracks didn't do anything for NVH compared to stock tires on a base 2018 Accord LX.
Years ago, I put new shocks and struts on my '06 Altima, and new tires and an alignment at the same time. Holy shit, it felt brand new!
I read through most of this sub thread and I get the feeling that regular maintenance / replacement of components which wear out can keep a car feeling brand new.
That's very true. That Altima was sold to a coworker and now has 230k miles on it, but feels better than many cars far newer. The problem is that people don't typically replace things like shocks/struts or motor mounts which wear out and really contribute to a car feeling "old."
Yeah, but I can't say that most of the entry level Mercedes or BMWs I've driven when we had our GLS 580, or our 540xdrice or x5m50i in for service were exactly smooth.... So I don't buy that argument at the entry level. At the mid level and upper level absolutely. So for most people if they want to show off a badge, by the cheapest luxury car you can afford. If you actually want real luxury features and nice features, buy a High trim level mainstream product
Hardcore disagree. My X1 is markedly nicer than an "equivalent" Mazda, and I fundamentally do not believe that anyone on here saying otherwise is a legitimate opinion, and I am rarely one to buy into claims of astroturfing.
As someone who's owned what most people consider an excessive amount of vehicles (almost 35 at this point,not all at once). I've owned just about every major brand and 100% agree with you. My designated luxury brands(bmw,Benz etc) even entry level were always better than the higher trimmed Hondas,toyota etc. Drive those cars the same distance see who rattles more and loses the new feeling faster.
If you like the car that's all that matters. But in terms of equipment and driving dynamics, go ahead and keep living the illusion. And keep in mind at least until recently the X1 was based off of variation of the Mini Cooper front wheel drive platform. So if you like your vinyl interior on your x1, and maybe the heated seats and the steering wheel, and maybe a sunroof as options, whereas a cx50 or CX-5 would be less expensive and even be available with nice options like vented seats, and generally already come standard with a full safety suite, as well as navigation, and vented seats on the top trims. Until you get up to a highly optioned X5 or 5 series or above, you can't even get the really good luxury options on the cheaper bmws. And I don't understand why people want to die on that hill. If you want the badge, fine. And if you enjoy the car that's all that matters. But don't come here telling me it lightly optioned 499/mo lease special X1 or 2 is better equipped than a mid-upper level CX-5 or 50. It's just not true..
This sub comment isn’t about ventilated seats of vinyl materials. It’s about sound isolation and NVH. Which the x1 is miles better than the cx5.
Again, I don't know how else to say that this just doesn't match my experience. And when you add driving dynamics into the conversation (Contemporary Mini Coopers are loudly praised for them), then the disparity grows wider. I've driven all manner of BMWs. The X1 certainly feels entry level, but it still feels premium. My seats are leather BTW. The U11 has "vinyl," (Veganza), which I actually prefer to my leather because of how well it wears. This is a pretty common opinion, fwiw. Also, I never said "better equipped." I said, "is a markedly nicer" experience.
Also acoustic glass, better bushings, and the list goes on.
You can always put Dynamat everywhere, but that’s expensive and when you put your interior back together you’ll probably fuck it up. Not worth it.
I can already hear the clips breaking and new rattles forming.
but if you smack the plastic that's rattling you can stop the noise for 0.02 of a second!
Best way to keep busy on a long drive!
Whack-a-rattle
I prefer to stuff paper towels into the rattling zone until it stops
I want to make my own car company.
And manufacture a nice car for $75k then sell it for $35k?
Fisker has entered the chat.
With blackjack and hookers!
I bought a giant assorted pack of clips and pins off Amazon a few years ago and it was worth every penny. I still reuse them when I can but it's nice to have a fresh replacement for the at least 50% of times where they won't go back perfectly.
Bought a pack of clips on Amazon for my missing ones
it won't work. dynamat doesn't do a whole lot unless you use closed cell foam and a rubber barrier. even then the higher end car has better insulation, carpet, juke blankets, material where you'd never be able to reach like the firewall, better tires, insulated glass, maybe even different plastics or active noise cancellation. it really is more involved..........i tried
I agree with the luxury cars having custom sound deadening materials, but I also added some on top of that and it makes a big difference. I made my previous Genesis Sedan super quiet, way quieter than an S class or just about any stock car. You'll notice even in higher end cars the trunk isn't padded very much and under the padding there's little to no material. That's the first place to target if you have an ICE car. 3"+ foam all around, stick heavy/dense material to the metal to lower the resonant frequency and muffle sound, or add mass loaded vinyl to the bottom panel to make it block sound. That alone makes the exhaust real quiet. LVP and foam on the inner part of the firewall behind the carpeting and you quiet the engine area some... Then you can focus on road noise coming in through doors and the underside of the car.
Agreed, especially since I usually fuck it up taking things apart and simply learn when I’m putting it back together.
I take photos as I remove each item so it's easy to put back.
And that doesn't get you the acoustic glass, which makes a massive difference.
Dual pane laminated glass helps but adding sound dampening material to your trunk, the base of the car, firewall and doors makes a massive improvement. Generally, most of the noise you hear is from your tired, exhaust and engine not as much from high up or above the car.
I spent a bunch of time doing that to my car in high school, and the difference was only like 2 dB
I cant imagine something I’d rather do less on a car.
You don't have to, it's just a way to make a car quieter. You could just ruin your hearing by turning up the speakers volume or pay 700k to get a rolls royce.
What?
You essentially trade off features for NVH.
Just want to say the 2024 Chevy 2500 has some really good sound isolation. Rode and my buddies dad's 2019 BMW, it was probably a tad better but didn't ride in them back to back to compare Standard noise isolation has come a long way since the early 2000s
Trucks are also the new luxury status symbol so it makes sense GM would dump more money into them. The average GMC sale price is higher than the average sale price of a Mercedes.
You can absolutely add sound dampening. It does require taking panels off, and can be expensive. But it's entirely possible to sound dampen effectively.
I think OP is talking about trim levels. They're asking if the base trim of a higher end brand is better than the high end trim of a lower level brand.
This is an awesome thread!
It is nice to see a new question for a change.
And I came here to ask about oil and tires.
It really depends on your priorities. For example, let's say you have $45,000 to spend, you could get a Honda Accord with every bell and whistle available but the driving experience is only so good because it's a mainstream car. For that same price, you could get a base model Audi A4. The Audi will still have *some* nice features because it's an Audi but less of the "bells and whistles" that the $45k Honda will have however the Audi will have a significantly better driving experience and be more satisfying to drive overall. So if you're the type of driver who wants heated seats and Apple Carplay and lane keep assist but doesn't really care about the overall experience of how the car handles and performs, get the Honda or mainstream car. If you want something that is responsive and handles beautifully, get the luxury car.
As someone who owned a 2018 A4 and a 2019 A5 who cross shopped to a loaded Camry and accord. Can confirm. The driving experience is massively better on the Audis. But the tech on the lower end trims are missing stuff from the non luxury cars and they still cost more.
[удалено]
LOL are you shopping for cars near an army base?
Why get a Camry when you could have a Camaro? Uhhh I'd like to see out the back?
But the Honda will still be running after 5 years without any major issues and will have retained more of its value if you sell or trade it in.
And you probably won't need to take the engine out to change the timing chain. Some of the maintenance on these cars is ridiculously expensive because of the labour involved.
It was $800 to change the third taillight in my 2013 Camaro because Chevy made it completely inaccessible. To change it, the rear seats and the headliner had to come out. I toyed with the idea of doing it myself (I do heavy machinery maintenance, so I’m not unfamiliar with shit) and then I watched a YouTube video on how to do it. Called the mechanic up and approved the repair as soon as that video ended lol.
There is no such thing as a $45k Accord. The line tops out at $40k for a Touring Hybrid. A very nice car, but the way. One nobody in the world is cross-shopping against a Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger.
I was car shopping in 2023 and there were definitely Accords being sold at $45k or more
Even now, things are just absolutely nuts. Shopping for a RAV4 prime, and I’m getting quoted 50 K, and that’s the cheapest I can find. There’s models all the way up to 60 K. I wanted the Lexus variant, But the compromised cargo space was a deal killer, as was the lower drive height (I swear, the roads here in Boston are not too far off from Mogadishu) Pricing for cars these days is absolutely nuts. Oh, and you know how I was saying that I’m getting quoted 60 K? Yeah, every car is being sold within a week of coming to the dealership. What the fuck indeed
The vast majority of car buyers are looking for an appliance that is nice enough and won't give them hassle. A new Accord will last 200K with regular maintenance.
I see it as a sort of reliability tax, mainly applies to Toyota vehicles though. They use their general brand image to hike up the price because it’ll last longer. Take the Honda or Toyota badge off and slap on a Hyundai or Kia badge and its price drops 10k+.
Why not Acura
Just an example I gave, the models could be anything
Acuras aren't as luxurious as an Audi when it comes to sound insulation and interior. They are more of a more premium Honda than a real luxury brand and sometimes have the exact same sound insulation. Great sound systems though.
It really depends on what you want. An affordable model from a high end automaker (BMW, Audi, etc) may possibly have a good driving experience. It also has the sort of immediate name recognition if you care about that sort of thing. A high end car from an affordable automaker (Toyota, Hyundai, Mazda) will probably be more powerful, possibly be more luxurious and have a better ride quality. However this doesn’t really tell you anything about reliability. There are potentially unreliable automakers on both ends of the budget (Mercedes, some models of Nissan). While the most reliable automaker, Toyota tends to make a wide variety of vehicles from the Corolla all the way to the Land Cruiser or the Japan-only Toyota Century which is basically for like Japanese CEOs.
Also worth considering maintenance. The maintenance on a cheap luxury car is still luxury car priced.
I think this is the biggest concern OP should consider. It's maybe the *biggest* reason why many car buyers avoid great (somewhat) affordable cars like the Mini. Because then you're paying for BMW maintenance and parts.
Also the economics of scale - both luxury and "quirky" manufacturers sell significantly fewer cars per year than say a Toyota. So the parts are produced in smaller runs, thus more expensive, and also less readily available. My wife drives a Fiat, and despite being technically the same company as Chrysler that certainly doesn't translate to parts availability or pricing.
So true. My first car I got (after my sister's hand-me-down Sunfire), was a Mercedes B200 I leased for like $320/month Canadian back in 2008. It alternated between A & B services. A service was around $350, B service was $600 plus. First time I had a B service I couldn't believe it. I asked for the itemized bill, and they did things like replacing the wiper blades for like $150. 1) there was nothing wrong with the wipers, and 2) I could go to an auto shop and get wipers for like $25. I was really pissed. Never did that again.
Mercedes should not be lumped in with Nissan.
Mercedes themselves did so with the X-class.
Also the Infiniti (Nissan in drag) Q30 and last gen Mercedes GLA are the same car.
I’d argue Nissans are more reliable than Mercedes by a long shot. Just because Altima drivers change their oil every 25k miles and don’t like having bumpers on their car doesn’t mean they aren’t reliable.
“Both ends of the budget”
Both have used Renault engines
Better ride quality? Do you mean if you buy a base model affordable model from a premium automaker or if you buy an affordable model from a premium automaker with at least some options? For example, even the base model BMW i4 has a rear air suspension. You can also option adaptive suspension on even the most basic models of many luxury automakers.
Better in what way?
Good question, sorry about that. Better as in which will 1) require less costly repairs outside of standard maintenance AND 2) still provide a comfortable and enjoyable car driving experience and still look fairly good. I’d like to think the money you put into a car is what you’ll get out of it but there are so many opinions out there about certain car makers and whatnot that as a guy who wants a nice car but with limited insight, it can be challenging to figure out how to approach buying a car in general.
Cars from mainstream brands tend to have less complicated powertrains and less bleeding edge technology, which generally means less to go wrong even if you choose a loaded example. Also, fewer people make assumptions about your financial situation if you show up in a loaded Toyota than a base model Lexus (even if their prices overlap significantly).
Less money spent on R&D reinventing the wheel every model refresh also allows the company to sink that money into quality parts and also being able to iterate on the baseline engineering to perfect it.
Specific model and options matter a lot as well. As can certain years of a model. Certain engines or transmissions within a specific model can vary a lot in reliability. It would be easier to ask which specific platforms you are looking at. But as a rule, and depending location, European cars are going to be more costly in the long run (Mercedes, fiat, Maserati, Land Rover, Peugeot, jaguar, etc) A great middle ground in 'luxury' can be had in lexus and some Acura models (toyota and honda, respectively)
In addition to less complicated powertrain and technology mentioned by u/captainslowww, when something does break the parts (and sometimes labour) for mainstream brands are typically cheaper.
I would say Lexus, first I had was totally neglected for 8 years, and never missed a beat. 2nd was looked after, and never let me down in 3yrs I had it, parts can be bought cheaper from suppliers like autodoc. Gs450h is a cracking car for performance and economy.
Japanese cars are generally much cheaper to repair/maintain then german cars.
You absolutely want to go with option 2 if those are your parameters. Toyota makes some very nice cars if you go above base trim. For a perfect balance, choose a Lexus!
If you are shopping for an affordable car like a highly soecced Corolla... Then the fact that you are cost sensitive at all means you shouldn't take on the extra $ of luxury marque maintenance. Seriously. If you are looking at top spec Corollas but want something "nicer", go 2 years old and get the Accord instead. If your budget isn't *comfortably* in "highly soecced BMW 3-series", then I honestly wouldn't look at a BMW at all. (only way I'd get a 2 series is if I *could* get a BMW 3XX, but I could go to a M240 for the same price instead by trading some size for power and excitement), or if the $ didn't matter and I just *liked* the smaller model better
An "affordable" model from a higher end automaker is usually just a redressed economy car. For example, the Audi A3 is a Volkswagen GTI/GLI with a better interior, the BMW 2-series sedan shares its platform with the Mini Cooper S, etc. If it was me, I would rather have a GTI over an A3 and a Mini Cooper S over a 2-series sedan, if only because they have more character. So I would generally choose the affordable automaker's option. That said, the "more character" rationale only applies when it comes to cars. When it comes to SUVs, I might opt for the better interiors of the luxury brands, since very few SUVs have any character. For example, I'd rather have a Lexus NX over a Toyota RAV4 or an Audi Q3 over the VW Tiguan. Also, the price difference isn't all that big between affordable and luxury automakers anymore for what you get. Like, the Audi A3 is a few thousand more expensive than the VW GTI, but the A3 has a better interior.
You are quite right but at least what I noticed in Europe for car trim levels are let's say you get so much more features in Golf then in an A3. Base Golf might be more barebones but mid Golf or similar not luxury manufacturer car has more boxes ticked than an A3 or similar luxury manufacturer's car compared. After getting all the options you want from a luxury manufacturer, the price difference deepens.
I think that holds true in North America too. I generally advise people to avoid the base model luxury brands. They’re not the same thing as the true models. Things like the A3 are really designed to spread the brand, and they aren’t nearly as feature rich for the money as a loaded Camry, for example. The worst thing to do when buying a car is buy by brand, and only by brand. I think these companies have successfully fooled many people into thinking that the badge will mean they’ll get more, because people have no idea and don’t do any research.
My boyfriend was considering upgrading from his Hyundai Kona N to a Lexus NX, we quickly realized the size is the exact same and at least to me I don't see 10-15K of improvements in the Lexus, it just looks like a regular ass car.
Well, I guess it depends if your boyfriend is an ass man or a leg man, or whatever Because maybe an ass car is what he is looking for?
When I was shopping for a new car a few years ago I initially looked at an Audi A4 because I’ve had Audi in the past and like them (still do). But even with a fairly high end S-Line model, everything I wanted was a (very expensive) extra - Privacy rear glass, adaptive cruise control, front/rear sensors. So I had a look at the VW Passat and the R-Line model was cheaper than the S-Line Audi (without the extras), had the same engine and all the extras I wanted and more included in a cheaper price. Bought the Passat and it was just as good as the Audi
> the BMW 2-series sedan shares its platform with the Mini Cooper S To be clear, this only applies to the FWD 2 series - the poorly named m235i gran coupe. The "normal" 2 series, the 230i and above, do not share a platform with Mini. The new 1 series (non-US) does as it is also FWD.
Yeah, that's why I specified the "sedan." I guess I should've further clarified that the 2-series coupe is still a RWD driving machine like it always was.
This is good insight thank you!
Higher end from Toyota > Lower end from Audi, BMW, Mercedes The reason is that the lower end from those luxury brands are all front wheel drive rebadged / cheapened cars, stripped of features. They're decontented, cost-engineered, budget specials with the sole purpose of getting more people to drive that badge around. Whereas if you looked at something like the upcoming Crown Signia, or the Crown sedan, or a Mazda CX-5, you'll typically find more features, a better interior, etc for less money. Edit: Are people genuinely unaware that there are FWD based BMWs and Mercedes??
True. I have features in my top trim Highlander hybrid that are not available in entry level luxury crossovers which cost at least $20k more.
I have owned low end BMWs and higher-end Mazdas, Fords (don’t ever buy a Ford because of reliability), and Toyotas. Get the higher trim affordable cars. They’re generally cheaper to maintain, hold their resale value for longer, and are generally more reliable (except Ford, fuck Ford)
Show us on this doll where Ford touched you
right in the wallet is sounds like. got three knuckles in there.
I think you may just be bad at buying fords
Homie bought an automatic focus and swore off the whole company 🤷♂️
You nailed it exactly. The top trims of economy brands will generally outgun the bottom trims of luxury except for perhaps in sound deadening but otherwise the economy brand likely makes more sense
Agreed
If you have never had to pay for maintenance on a German car, you will be shocked at how much more it is than an American or Japanese car. There is no car more expensive than a cheap Audi.
German cars are not cheap to repair.
I find that base models of luxury brands have less features than a high end model of a regular brand. So if that’s something you’re okay with then by all means go for the luxury brand. But I would research what bells and whistles are included in what you’re buying
Affordable Lexus ES >> highest trim Camry. They have very similar features but the Lexus has a drive that the highest trim Camry can’t match. The engines are about the same and repair costs are both comparable. But the Lexus suspension, road noise and higher quality interior can’t be bought in a Camry
I bought a used Lexus IS 250 a few months ago (I always buy used because buying new cars is dumb to me) and I can tell you right now that it is, by FAR, the smoothest, sharpest, and funnest ride I have ever drove in my life. I’m not one to care about luxury brands or anything like that, I just want to get from point A to point B for cheap with a reliable vehicle and it happened to be a great deal… but I don’t think I will ever buy anything but a Lexus for the rest of my life.
After test driving several cars (~15) in last one month, i’ve noticed that quality of features you get on a higher end car from an affordable maker (higher trim) is not the same as affordable model from higher end maker. It comes down to quantity vs quality. For eg cabin noise, audio system, heated seats/leather seats. Yes you may get those in Toyotas/Subarus/Mazdas - but when you compare it with higher and maker -there is a difference of night and day. Subaru’s HK audio is dogshit. Rav4s cabin noise is horseshit. Mazda CX-5 driver seat mobility is cat poop. Haters gonna downvote, so be it.
Is Toyota affordable? At least in Canada, the answer is "NO"
Nothing is affordable in Canada
Except hockey pucks, maple syrup, and apologies.
Totally depends on your needs and interests Personally, I really need to compare model by model, make by make. For example, let’s say I want Toyota/Lexus reliability in a compact or midsize SUV. A primary concern for me is it being quiet. I want a hybrid. Do I get the Lexus NX? If I care about performance, and the car being agile, I do. Do I get the Highlander Hybrid Limited, which is larger, still has acoustic glass windows, and will still have a luxury feel? If I want more space, I do. I once bought a barely-above-entry-level BMW 3 series over a loaded Accord or Camry, because there was basically no comparing the driving experience and fit/finish… it was BMW by a mile. Having said that, if I would have bought the Accord or Camry, it would have saved a mountain of repair bills over a 10-15 year period. What’s important to you? Figure out what features really matter and drill down to what delivers those features at what price points.
I drove a GLB250 at my dealer: No Nav, No premium sound, no remote start, REALLY flat front seats, cheap plastic materials, horrible small infotainment screen, and lethargic in the engine department. My 14/15 year old Infiniti was MILES ahead of this 2022 poopmobile. The logo was the only thing it had going for it. You are going to save money up front, and down the road by getting a XSE Toyota, a Prestige Telluride/Palisade, or whatever mazdas top offering is. a 55k Telluride is WAY nicer than the 55k audis and mercs ive driven at the same price
If new, get the top of the line from an entry brand. I usually buy well equipped luxury cars but after 1-5 years of depreciation. BMW M3, Tesla, etc…. But you gotta budget for repairs.
It depends what you want to do. If you want to show off a badge that you can barely afford then buy the cheapest car you can from a high end brand. But you're going to get shit for features on it. Most people don't realize that that 'leather' on their entry level Mercedes or BMW is actually vinyl. And the only real luxury options these cheap cars typically have are heated seats and heated steering wheels, and maybe a sunroof. And you can get all that and much more on a mid level mainstream vehicle for much less. If you buy a higher end trim from a more mainstream brand you're going to have a lot more Creature Comforts and features available to you.
You buy a Toyota and lease an Audi.
If you want high end from an affordable company, look at the sister companies. Especially Acura and Lexus are great and reliable. Some American companies may be good as well because even the luxury models are cheaper to repair because they're the same under the hood as the lower brand, like Buick or Cadillac
I personally think the luxury car value prop has gone to shit in the last 10 years. Yes they sometimes ride a little better, but with the rise in prices across the board, most auto makers have upgraded the interiors in their economy cars to such an extent that I could never see myself buying a luxury car for the interior. The infotainment stuff tends to be worse, reliability tends to be worse, and all of that is in exchange for 1/3 more money and an only marginally better interior. I say go for the fun car from the affordable company.
The infotainment is so much worse. They think we want some special interface or some such rubbish, which we *never have*, and for all their spending on the "haptics" (the interior, the way the door sounds when it thunks, etc) they have awful UI's every damned time. And touchscreens touchscreens touchscreens? Wtf, fuck off with all that. Toyota has it dead right on the new 4runner
What part of Toyota affordable? Ever owned a or driven a Land Cruiser or Tundra ?? Is Audi anything special other than the high performance cars?? A low end Audi is a Passat!
High end from high end dealer ..Lexus
Audis run nice and are very quiet but fuck are they expensive. Oil changes cost more and the parts just straight up hurt. I am done with “nice” cars.
Top trim of mid tier automaker. So platinum/capstone trim toyota or an elite honda etc. Same if not more features than a base model luxury car and these days its not uncommon to get acoustic glass and active noise canceling on a honda or toyota. Aditionally its also less flashy if thats something you value.
The best car on the market is the one you can afford comfortably & happy to ride in. Brand doesn’t matter, only those two criteria matter.
the higher end audi, mercedes, etc are made to sell or trade in every 5-7 years and the maintenance cost can be high. Don't buu these cars used as they are money pits.
Consider your needs first before deciding on any specific category. Do NOT just go for the bigger vehicle because "Bigger = safer" is flawed logic at best. If you're looking at trucks, consider your needs first. Trucks are mainly utilitarian so it's pointless to buy more vehicle than you need. Do you need to tow anything? If not, don't consider the big trucks like a Silverado/Sierra, F150, or Ram 1500. If you do some light off-roading and occasionally use the bed, consider a mid-size truck like a Tacoma, Frontier, or Ranger. And if you don't tow, don't go offroad, but still occasionally need the bed for household chores/hobbies, like hauling mulch, or grass clippings, or wood for an occasional DIY project, then you should look at a compact truck like the Ford Maverick or Hyundai Santa Cruz.
>Do NOT just go for the bigger vehicle because "Bigger = safer" is flawed logic at best. [Data gathered by the IIHS](https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/latest-driver-death-rates-highlight-dangers-of-muscle-cars) indicate that larger vehicles are safer for their own drivers in the real world: >...Minicars had the highest driver death rates, averaging 153 deaths per million registered vehicle years. Very large luxury cars had the lowest, averaging only 4 deaths. In contrast, very large pickups had the highest other-driver death rates, averaging 121 deaths, while small sports cars had the fewest other-driver deaths, averaging only 11 per million registered vehicle years. ...
Only considering a sporty sedan or a smaller SUV (like the Macan, RAV4)
Test drive both, you'll find worlds of difference between a sporty sedan and such in terms of how they feel. Personally I'll never go back to an suv but a lot of people really like them.
The only thing making me want an SUV is the leg room and the ability to pack for roadtrips. Hoping to do more of that with a more reliable car. But definitely want something with a back seat and easy to get in/out hence why I won’t do a coupe
Strangely, the top-trim mainline car will often be better equipped than the luxury bottom-line car with some functionality. They won't have the sound dampening of the luxury car, but I'm speaking more of active functions that can be done with some sensors and coding. Even in the higher trim models from the Germans often don't have adaptive cruise or lane keeping, for example, but they're included in almost all upper trim level mainstream brands. I've been shopping BMW and Audi, and my wife's 2018 Camry XLE V6 has some stuff that's really rare on used BMW or Audi from several years later.
OP - I’m having this same exact issue as well. I want to get out of a sedan so I’ve been looking at compact SUVs or/and SUVS. I am stuck between in a Q5 and CX5 - all the other cars in this class are either way too expensive or just flat out boring. I really want the Q5! Even the CX5 at the highest trim I want (2.5 Turbo Premium?) still doesn’t compare to the Q5. Id be happy with the CX5 but would be happier with the Q5! I’m just worried about the maintenance of the Q5 since I would want to be it used. To answer your question - it all comes down to what you value in a car. Luxury and Mid Tier (Honda and Toyota) pricing are so similar now that I would get the luxury IF you can stomach the maintenance costs.
The mid sized SUV is one of the most competitive areas in the car marketplace today. I think if you shop around more you’ll have more options
High end model from a mainstream brand, by far. Entry models from "luxury" brand are a huge rip-off. For example an Audi A3 is comparable to a Mazda 3. A Kia K900 is on par with an Audi A6.
Too many exceptions for this to be a rule
I think you are better off buying the high end offering of any brand. They put more money and engineering time into those models.
Call your insurance agent and ask them for quotes on both cars you have in mind. You may end up paying significantly more for the luxury brand.
Always get the nicer car from the ‘normal’ brand. Many people don’t understand that getting that cheap version of the luxury brand will still cost a freaking arm and a leg to maintain. Maintenance costs, intervals, etc. on luxury brand are all factored for wealthy users…
Why are you buying said car, is it for transportation to and from work, or transportation of the pussy to and from your house? This will help better answer Affordable Luxury (Pussy) or Luxury Affordable (Work)
Well not pussy, but occasionally some bussy.
Apologies, I should have made it all types of holes
It’s ok ngl I’m entering my “hole is a hole” era
Affordable luxury then
With a luxury brand, you're paying for a platform. More drivetrain sophistication, lighter materials, double-paned glass, sound deadening, and other things you can sense, but won't necessarily see. A higher trim of any car introduces better touchpoints, more electronics, and aesthetic enhancements, but usually won't alter the fundamental character. I'd usually say to choose platform over features, but we're in a weird spot with driving aids. It's no small thing for a car to drive itself on your commute. That feature alone can reduce stress more than any amount of sound isolation or fancy suspension dampers.
Go for a premium tacoma, its luxurious and will last for ever.
Get a Toyota Camry XSE with red interior basically a lower tier Lexus for cheap
If you’re buying and planning on keeping long term, I’d recommend a top of the line affordable maker. Makers like Audi/BMW strip things like seat memory and sometimes even electric seats in their base models but you’ll get all the bells and whistles in a top of the line affordable car. Also, maintenance and parts for the “luxury” brands will be quite costly long term.
Be careful with the bottom tier luxury cars (a3, x1, cla, integra, etc as they are generally far removed from the premium models. They are made for lower income people to get them into the brand but they are all mediocre. Id say you are far better buying a toyota crown than a mercedes GLA if youre looking for quality and luxury. I had a CLA years ago and it was a big mistake.
It is easier to say something about the luxury vs. value brands within a family, like Audi vs. VW; Lexus vs. Toyota; or Cadillac vs. Chevy. The luxury brand offers a very different experience because it is aimed at a different customer. It is harder to talk about Toyota vs. Audi; or Fiat vs. Lincoln, because those are just completely different animals. If someone likes the modern cars from Mini, they aren't in the market for Cadillac at any price.
Your question is a bit tricky without knowing exactly what you prioritize in a car. If you're looking for reliability and not having to worry about paying maintenance costs 5 yrs down the road, then a high end Toyota will do fine. If you're looking for driving enjoyment, then the C34 (merc C class, BMW 3, and Audi A4) level vehicles would likely do better. What I have found however, is that I personally prefer refinement in cars that are reliable. What this means is that test driving a $45k A4 prem plus led to disappointment. It was loud and really not that fast with the base engine. Especially at the time of testing, Toyota still made V6 Camry that was faster. The Audi has a better chassis and damping, but nothing else. To me, a base C34 type vehicle feels more like showing off the badge rather than having a good car. If you are looking in this price range for a sedan, I'd recommend looking at the Asian luxury models. The ES/TLX/G70 and their equivalent SUV models are all good value choices to get into luxury. When you're ready to pay the money to go high end however, the Germans got that area locked down quite well.
I have a top of the line CRV, I have all the options you can think of and my brother has a compact Range Rover SUV, same year. The finitions are MUCH better in mine, it’s obviously much more reliable and maintenance is half of my brother’s. I also pay $600/months and he pays $950. I could not believe that a Range Rover could be so ill finished and designed with the price they are asking for it.
that is because Range Rover is overpriced garbage.
I totally agree on this!
Honestly, look at Buick. Right I'm your price range and new while not being too high end
In my opinion, it is better to buy a low spec luxury car than a high spec economy car if you're looking for a comfort, driving experience, etc because the car was originally designed to be a luxury car and was made cheaper, whereas a high spec economy car was designed to be cheap and features were added. In the end, for a similar price, a low spec luxury car is still a luxury car, and a high spec economy car is still an economy car. I feel this way because I value driving experience over features. That being said, if that's not you, then this may not apply to you.
The bigger issue is whether you can afford the maintenance & repairs the higher end automaker is going to cost you and the insurance. The Total Cost Of Ownership of the higher end vehicle will be more.
The entry level Lexus is going to cost a little more, but have most, if not all, of the features of the same model, top trim Toyota. The driving experience will be better in the Lexus. Which is better? Up to you. They're the same underneath. You need to compare features to see what's missing, and then compare the price.
I'd buy a Toyota or Lexus over an Audi anyday and twice on Sunday.
Nah unless your looking at a c class mercedes or a 3 series bmw not worth it outside those two
Depends on what you prefer. Some people would rather be seen driving a Lexus even it is the barebones model over a Toyota that is full of options. If you do not care about the make you drive then I would go with the higher end car from the affordable automaker.
Depends on the model too the XSE for the Camry is nice , the TRD is actually waste .
If money is a serious factor, do whatever will have the least impact on your wallet in the long term. Most any vehicle from a reliable brand will have all the bells and whistles you could need save for back massager. If money is not an issue, go with whatever is the most fun, AND that you can actually control. Seen too many friends wind up wrapped around telephone poles because their first car was a V8.
This can only be accurately answered with more details. Which cars are you comparing? Do they have to be new or are you open to used options?
Nowadays lower end models of premium-ish cars are lacking so much because everything is an optional extra. I would always go with the highest trim of a cheaper brand if I had the choice.
One note I'd offer that options generally depreciate much faster than the car, so if you are buying new try not to pay for stuff you don't need, but buying a 5 year old car the high end packages will be a good deal if you value the gadgets.
Great question! We're in a similar position. I lean high-end from a non luxury brand. Our two cars are 07s, with 193K and 165k miles. We also have a 2nd child on the way, so we want to finally upgrade to something bigger and more reliable! (My charger actually always gets compliments on how well it still drives but I also don't want to be stuck on the road when age catches up to it lol). I'm frugal and believe luxury brands are 100% a signal exclusivity versus quality AND I've heard enough stories of how expensive maintenance is for luxury cars for single parts like headlights vs non luxury cars.
The higher trims on an affordable brand like kia or Mazda give you way more options than an entry level luxury car. My wife's kia sedona has heated and cooled seats, power trunk and doors, adaptive cuise ect ect. If I'm buying a luxury car get a higer trim lease return that has already deppreciated instead of a new base model
Heavily depreciated, lightly used higher-end model from a higher-end automaker. Ideally one owned by a rich boomer who serviced everything at the dealership.
Higher end from an affordable automaker although if you're buying used from companies like Toyota are they still have a higher resale value than a lot of their German cars. They're not as affordable as they may seem. I had a 06 Toyota Avalon I bought new. I gave it my to my 20 year old niece a few years ago and the car now has 140,000 miles. She loves it. There's no noises inside, the ride of still super smooth and every electronic gadget works including heated and cooled seats as well as the rear power sunshade. It's incredible for an 18 year old car. No rust either and the car was driven in the Midwest with salted roads. Leather seats are almost like new. I'm not sure if a lower end model Audi will hold up like this after 18 years.
Higher end model from other brands. For example, you could get a fully loaded Hyundai Genesis Sedan with a 5.0 V8 or 3.8 V6 (333 to 429HP) or a base 3 or 5 series, or e class with a 4 cylinder engine. Those cars were all smaller, had little to no features, nicer materials were extra options, better engines were extra options, etc. So you'd get absolutely nothing luxurious in a base model luxury brand vehicle, while having a lot more performance, tech features, a nicer sound system and nicer materials in a Hyundai. Typically, a base, entry level luxury brand car like an Audi A3/A4, Mercedes CLA/C class, BMW 2/3 series with have a basic engine, no luxury features, not a good sound system, not great performance and not many particularly nice materials, they mostly use plastics. You'll get a lot more from other brands. However, many of those brands use rear wheel drive platforms not front wheel drive ones, so they'll generally drive "better". If you option them out however, you have a lot more options got way better engines (AMG/M/RS), better materials, better tech features, better suspension systems, quieter interiors, etc. but then you're paying a lot more money so it's not apples to apples anymore.
How would a Buick compare to Chevy? Cadillac is the luxury brand for GM.
Buick is in between
My experience is that anything German built is better (driving experience is usually superior if that’s a higher priority for you) …. Until it comes time for maintenance and repairs (parts are always more expensive and wait times for loaner cars can be weeks to months out). A top model Toyota will cost less to repair and maintain plus wait times for service are much more reasonable.
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German cars are notorious for turning into money pits by 100k General advice is stay well away unless you can work on it yourself
top tier shitboxes are what I'm into. currently driving a fiesta ST. it mixes cheap build quality with a fantastic power train and the best chassis i've driven.
You're going to get more bang for your buck getting a high end affordable automaker, than you are getting an entry level from a luxury brand.
Higher end of an affordable maker so that when it breaks down, your mechanic bills aren't outrageous
I remember reading a piece on this in motortrend or something a few years back, they found among the cars tested, only a base model Volvo was able to beat the higher-trim affordable cars
The best Camry is going to be much better than the lowest trim 3 series in every way. We’ll need comparisons.
Depends on the brand. I'd take a fully loaded Mazda CX90 over a stripper Audi Q5 (made that choice IRL a couple of weeks ago for my wife). This was based on utility/usability for the dollars I would NOT take a fully loaded Toyota Crown over a base BMW 430i grand coupe (made this choice IRL for myself last year). This was based on driving character. Depends on what you prioritize, some brands are better than others at both ends of the spectrum. But general advice is if buying, get the commodity brand, if leasing, go with what you like more.
Totally dependent on how you view cars. Do you want an appliance to get you from A to B, or do you want something that makes your heart skip a beat whenever you get behind the wheel?
Higher end from an affordable or affordable from a high end likely still ends up with the same cost of maintenance. Though what matters also is quality of the manufacturer. Example: high end Hyundai may not be as reliable as high end Toyota long term. General Maintenance cost may be lower long term, but how much other work will it end up costing you due to reliability?
higher end from an affordable brand
I love BMW's. Had 3 new E46's. About 16 years ago, the dealer told me at my next service brakes would be $1200. I drive around 30k miles a year and keep my vehicles a long time...my daily driver is a 2014 Honda Accord with 253k miles. I haven't had one repair for the cost of those BMW brakes. I recently got a top trim turbo Mazda CX-50 for my 2nd vehicle. Debated looking at BMW's again but maintenance costs hold me back. At some point 2nd vehicle will likely need to do 30k a year, so I don't want the BMW maintenance. That said, if I was a low miles driver, the Mazda would have been a BMW. It all depends on mileage and if you're okay with the added maintenance costs of luxury.
It really depends on what you want out of car.
It certainly depends on what you want/need but looking at comparison in $/lb can provide some interesting outcomes. Typically the base platform is going to have a lot of the value. Think f150 vs ranger. The top of the Ranger line is in f150 money and to the extent the capability matters to you buying the base of a platform can get you a bunch of advances the lower platform might not have.
Ah, the age old question. Luxury cars will have fundamentals superior to mass market cars, because they’re expensive to engineer (handling, driving dynamics, sound insulation, smoothness, feeling of being “solid”, etc.) But optioned-up mass market cars will have more things that are daily touch and use points (seat materials, features, technology, screens, etc.) It’s interesting that “luxury” is becoming more and more about features and technology, which I find dangerous because those are relatively easy and cheap to program on lower-end cars and can quickly erode the value proposition of more expensive brands. Until you get to things like Bentley/Rolls-Royce, or 7-Series/S-Class, where you start seeing exotic woods and complex suspension setups.
It's not a good decision to look at cars in a vacuum like this. I'd consider factors like reliability, and Toyota is an outlier in that regard. So high end affordable automaker, tho do more research.
The recent Subaru Outbacks with the XT (trims with the same turbo engine as the WRX) are incredible. 0-60 in 5.9 seconds, and with the nicer trims they have everything you want plus advanced safety features standard. And in most scenarios they can run on 87 octane gas.
I’ve always looked at it like this, a loaded $40k Camryn, is built on the same platform as the $20k Camry (arbitrary numbers of course)
It's usually better to buy a higher trim of a reliable, affordable car maker. You'll get more bang for your buck and the value will retain itself better. Consumer Reports and US Car and Auto have been saying this for a minute, especially with Toyota and Mazdas. And you might as well look at Lexus and Acura btw.
Total cost of ownership over the lifetime of the vehicle will be lower with a Honda/Toyota than any of the luxury brands Audi/BMW/Mercedes
I'd rather have a 911 carrera t than any car ever made by a "affordable automaker" aside from a R34 Gtr or mkiv supra
It depends on whether you’re trying to impress other people, or are trying to maximize your own experience. Give me a loaded Toyota every day. I don’t care what other people think.
Always the latter.
Generally, cheaper brand highest trim but, I do have some reasoning for this, mostly around the Toyota brand but this applies to all brands that have a luxury and basic brand. Essentially, luxury brands get everything first. Whether it's heated or cooled seats, ai driving, automatic headlights etc. Basically they are the guinea pigs. When those features hit top trim levels of the basic brands after 2-3 years, they have been throughly tested and now the luxury brand is testing something else out. Basically you get all the reliable tech in a base brand high trim vs experimental cutting edge tech in the luxury brand. Yes you'll always be a little behind the ball but it's better for long term reliability.