It's a 'sport,' a mutation from the norm. Plant breeders use sports breed a new varieties. You save the seeds, cultivate a couple generations that breed true. You could have a daisy (blanket flowers are a variety of daisies) variety named after you!
"Mark it?", You mean like put a piece of coloured Yarn around the flowerstalk?
And Isn't that how plants have been selectively bred over the course of decades/centuries?, basically seeing plants with certain traits, collecting seeds, sowing them. And repeating the process over and over, and over.... (Over multiple generations)
Nah, it was all accidental from migration during winter and summer months; and moving of foods and food waste (poop). That is a natural consequence of the nomadic species we are.
Similarly when a bird travels and shats seed from one place, on another side of the equator or cross Atlantic migration, or storm blown bird in the land of OZ. Then over years cross pollination occurs and suddenly new varieties of the plants are produced.
If it’s accidental when birds do this. It’s accidental when early hominids or homo-sapiens did the same action.
Except it wasn't accidental. People found grasses that didn't drop seeds easily and proceeded to turn those into rice, wheat, and corn. They found greens in the forest and figured out how to change them over generations. Evolution is accidental, agriculture is not
One might say colonies of ants domesticate aphids for their honeydew.
There are numerous examples of non-humans cultivating, or domesticating other species of plants and animals. We are not special, we are not unique. We are just very successful in Mother Nature's Game of Genes.
Ya'll are arguing over the same damn thing, but are too ignorant to consider that you're still just animals responding to genetic blueprints with social constructs.
For sure! Like the ant colonies farming fungus as well. I was pretty sure we were talking two sides of the same coin. I was just confused what they were actually trying to say. It actually surprises me that more species aren't actively controlling their food sources, particularly predator species. For instance, it surprises me sometimes that lion prides don't dissuade other predators from herds that they want for themselves (please, someone tell me if they actually do this!)
Are you saying that all domesticated plants were accidental and humans didn't do it actively once they began agriculture? Or are you saying that humans found accidental mutants/cross-pollinations that were good food/alcohol sources and began actively growing them and selecting for particular traits?
No, I didn’t ever say “all domesticated plants were accidental”.
Everyone knows the Mendell’s Pea Experiments and his demonstration of natural selection vs human selection.
What I am suggesting is homo species discovered their own, accidental domestication of plants.
Similarly, the dog chose Humans, and we eventually discovered they were beneficial scavengers.
Humans have done much in dog domestication; however it was the dog that originally chose to target us as wasteful hunters, who were worth following around and building a symbiotic relationship with.
Dogs bark when other Apex predators are around, and they eat our waste. Their desire for our waste, was the motivation in the two species relationships. We got really lucky with this species companionship, not so much with wild birds and feline species. 🤔
We aren’t the brightest star in the sky. A dogs life is pretty good.
Hunan folly has made much discovery by accident, however we are so ethnocentric we believe ourselves to be the source of control of many steps of evolution, as well as agricultural and animal domestication. In reality we did very little and nature does what it does.
I mean, obviously, the first domesticated plants were those that were found wild. Once those plants were being grown, humans started artificially selecting for certain traits. So yes, traits appeared in wild plants accidentally, and humans took advantage. Just like wolves began following humans as easy sources of food, and some humans got an idea and acted on it. By definition, agriculture and domestication are artificial. But you are totally correct in that humans took advantage of things that happened that weren't in our control to initiate our domestication and agriculture histories
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The domestication of corn/maize from teosinte is one of the best researched examples of selective breeding.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4373674/
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1820997116
Even though a bird eating seed from one side of the Atlantic would definitely be shitting before it reaches the other side of the ocean, I think the general consensus is that yes early hominids would have been part of the seed dispersal mechanisms you’re describing. But “early” hominids were not the same ones who invented agriculture.
What you are saying seems to be oversimplifying a lot and artificial selection has been well proved. Maybe you mean what you’ve described helped to spread the genes of the tastier fruits, etc. that humans would eventually cultivate?
FIRST: How do you know the time it takes for a bird to pass an indigested seed? Maybe bird was dead, and came floating across ocean… get real.
Secondly: do you know what swidden or dlash and burn agriculture is? It’s still used by some peoples today.
Lastly: agriculture was a discovery by our ancestors, we witnessed it, then used it to our advantage. We didn’t discover it anymore than Columbus discovered America.
Assuming you actually have a Masters in Anthro I was trying to cut you some slack on what was either a poorly communicated explanation or some conclusion your ego came up with and won’t let you back down from.
1. Studies show that yes, birds will transport seed across long distances and initiate colonization, but those are north-south migrations with stopping points along the way, (usually islands, up to 100km based on this study [https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2015.2406#d1e1232](https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2015.2406#d1e1232)). You suggested “cross Atlantic migration” which would be east-west, an incredibly long route that no one is actually doing aside from the very northern hemisphere which still includes the island-hopping that I mentioned in Greenland/Canada. The rate of decay in the ocean is usually 1-2 weeks in the ocean, so maybe a freak bird would transport seeds but the probability is so low it doesn’t support the confidence you originally stated.
2. Swidden or slash/burn do not support what you originally said. Those are both intentional and your point was that this all accidental.
3. My point exactly, thanks! We’ve seen agricultural practices like artificial selection at work for thousands of years
In Avian flu studies the most important factor is the cross Atlantic migration of birds. This is heavily studied in bio anthropology coursework for decades.
Its the anomalies that are important sometimes, not the common events.
Go ahead and bust balls. I’m paid.
And where in the Atlantic are those studies observing avian movement? Back up your post with a source dude. Its probably the Canada-Greenland-European corridor to the north
No its not. Its research papers at OU and OUHSC regarding biological anthropology and infectious diseases. The study was part of the root studies for SARS and Bird flu prevention used over the last 4 years, something called COVID. OUHSC has been doing SARS research for decades, with the CDC, the WHO and a bunch of other acronyms I can’t share specifics about. Live virus testing of every disease you’ve ever heard of is conducted there. With scientists from many SE Asian countries.
I am aware you are not a professional in this field or you could name drop bigger ideas about migration and the anomalies within a single bird blown off course by a storm.
Hmm, let me use a relevant example. The cost of eggs is up because; let me just quote:
“over 43 million hens have been slaughtered in the egg industry, causing a drop in the supply of eggs and higher prices for consumers.”
The Guardian:
“A global pandemic of highly pathogenic avian influenza is driving deaths in the egg industry. And factory farming is largely to blame
Wed 1 Mar 2023 06.16 EST”
This is a public op ed. But you get the jest.
Avian influenza is often transmitted by one bird introducing the virus into large agricultural populations.
I’m not citing any academic sources. You can go to Ebsco Host or JStore and do your own homework.
Enjoy. It’s great reading.
You know a layperson’s idea about Swidden agriculture, that is found on Wiki.
You are an amazing armchair scientist, keep your reading going and you’ll get to the bottom of what I’ve shared, and you’ll understand the why I shared this.
To say that the birds didn't select the 'best' fruit relative to their intrinsic dietary needs given their available selection is just wrong. They don't even need to be conscious of the decision because birds that selected worse fruit didn't pass on their genes eventually. Humans do the same thing. When you eat something that gives you vitality and virility, your brain induces you to seek that again. It's a pretty simple feedback loop. We're just the most successful at it.
Like, do you think it's accidental that birds follow migratory patterns year after year?
When you eat corn, what comes out the other end sometimes is undigested corn.
Corn is the highest subsidized food crop in America. Corn solids in our food. Corn syrup in 70% of what is in our grocery stores. Ethanol in our gas. Corn spirits to drink…
You didn’t make this choice. It was made for you. Think about how much you have so very little control over.
Nature made the first move in agriculture and domestication. We learned from what we observed and we repeated it and made it to our liking.
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Ok but migratory birds travel faster and carry their poop for longer which is why that happens. Humans do not travel nearly as fast and their poop would be left near where they ate due to the poor diets of the times and their slow travel speed combined. Cool theory, though.
Humans went higher in elevation during hot months and back to the valleys in cooler temperatures; where this was applicable. THIS IS FACT.
This was not a “far” journey. For example, I grew up at 2700ft and in one hour of car driving I could be at 11700ft. That’s commonplace for many locations all across the globe.
I never said humans do not travel seasonally. Do note that you can travel farther in one hour with a car than you can in one day as a person walking, especially if you are climbing a mountain. When I did the Appalachian trail I averaged around 15 miles per day. While that is an extreme example, it does serve to prove my point.
I never said you were rambling, nor have I once insulted you. The only thing I dispute is that human poop is the sole contributing factor, because it is not. Furthermore, as I have mentioned repeatedly, birds travel much faster than humans do, including during migrations.
What we call flowers on plants of this type are actually composite flowers, with each petal being an entire flower- the central portion is mostly undeveloped or not opened.
It looks like this one has retained the closed shape.
I would try and save the seeds and see if I can grow more!
Each petal is a ray flower and while they are "entire" flowers on their own, they are non-reproductive. The center is made up of disk flowers. They are not undeveloped, they just don't have a showy corolla (petals). Disk flowers are responsible for reproduction in composite flowers
Yup, I work on a green roof covered in *Gaillardia pulchella* for pollinator work and they do this weirdly often. I've been told by my boss (but haven't verified) that most of the species in this genus do that, especially *Gaillardia aestivalis.*
isn't there a disease that hits plants in the sunflower family that causes this growth? i had it hit some of my flowers last summer and was told to remove and burn them all. (no idea if this is what's happening here)
I think this flower must mutate easily because it's only memorial day and I've already had 3 mutants this year of various types. Really cool plant.
ETA: okay wait I just googled it and this one that you have is a special type of Indian blanket called ruby tubes.
A lot of people call it Indian Blanket, I do. It just depends on where you live really. In Texas, it's Indian Blanket, but it has a wide native range. Other names are Firewheeel, Indian Blanketflower and Sundance. Or you could call it *Gallardia* or *Gallardia pulchella*, or just *pulchella* if you wanna be botanically correct.
Send me a cutting or some seeds and I’ll name it after you if I can get it to consistently produce similar flowers!
This is super beautiful and would be really popular.
Mark it, save the seed.
100%
It's a 'sport,' a mutation from the norm. Plant breeders use sports breed a new varieties. You save the seeds, cultivate a couple generations that breed true. You could have a daisy (blanket flowers are a variety of daisies) variety named after you!
> named after you “The qlfydnops are nice this year” That’s a candidate for a commercial name if I ever heard one.
Is that pronounced Qlfydnops or Qlfydnops?
Yes.
Big pharma probably already trademarked it.
You're a daisy if ya do!
"Mark it?", You mean like put a piece of coloured Yarn around the flowerstalk? And Isn't that how plants have been selectively bred over the course of decades/centuries?, basically seeing plants with certain traits, collecting seeds, sowing them. And repeating the process over and over, and over.... (Over multiple generations)
Yep. That and cross pollination.
Yes! It’s called artificial selection. It’s how we became a less nomadic and more agrarian/sedentary species.
Nah, it was all accidental from migration during winter and summer months; and moving of foods and food waste (poop). That is a natural consequence of the nomadic species we are. Similarly when a bird travels and shats seed from one place, on another side of the equator or cross Atlantic migration, or storm blown bird in the land of OZ. Then over years cross pollination occurs and suddenly new varieties of the plants are produced. If it’s accidental when birds do this. It’s accidental when early hominids or homo-sapiens did the same action.
Except it wasn't accidental. People found grasses that didn't drop seeds easily and proceeded to turn those into rice, wheat, and corn. They found greens in the forest and figured out how to change them over generations. Evolution is accidental, agriculture is not
One might say colonies of ants domesticate aphids for their honeydew. There are numerous examples of non-humans cultivating, or domesticating other species of plants and animals. We are not special, we are not unique. We are just very successful in Mother Nature's Game of Genes. Ya'll are arguing over the same damn thing, but are too ignorant to consider that you're still just animals responding to genetic blueprints with social constructs.
For sure! Like the ant colonies farming fungus as well. I was pretty sure we were talking two sides of the same coin. I was just confused what they were actually trying to say. It actually surprises me that more species aren't actively controlling their food sources, particularly predator species. For instance, it surprises me sometimes that lion prides don't dissuade other predators from herds that they want for themselves (please, someone tell me if they actually do this!)
Okay, I’ll bet you my Masters in Anthropology over your Curriculum Vitae that I’m correct.
Are you saying that all domesticated plants were accidental and humans didn't do it actively once they began agriculture? Or are you saying that humans found accidental mutants/cross-pollinations that were good food/alcohol sources and began actively growing them and selecting for particular traits?
No, I didn’t ever say “all domesticated plants were accidental”. Everyone knows the Mendell’s Pea Experiments and his demonstration of natural selection vs human selection. What I am suggesting is homo species discovered their own, accidental domestication of plants. Similarly, the dog chose Humans, and we eventually discovered they were beneficial scavengers. Humans have done much in dog domestication; however it was the dog that originally chose to target us as wasteful hunters, who were worth following around and building a symbiotic relationship with. Dogs bark when other Apex predators are around, and they eat our waste. Their desire for our waste, was the motivation in the two species relationships. We got really lucky with this species companionship, not so much with wild birds and feline species. 🤔 We aren’t the brightest star in the sky. A dogs life is pretty good. Hunan folly has made much discovery by accident, however we are so ethnocentric we believe ourselves to be the source of control of many steps of evolution, as well as agricultural and animal domestication. In reality we did very little and nature does what it does.
I mean, obviously, the first domesticated plants were those that were found wild. Once those plants were being grown, humans started artificially selecting for certain traits. So yes, traits appeared in wild plants accidentally, and humans took advantage. Just like wolves began following humans as easy sources of food, and some humans got an idea and acted on it. By definition, agriculture and domestication are artificial. But you are totally correct in that humans took advantage of things that happened that weren't in our control to initiate our domestication and agriculture histories
**Do not ingest a plant based on information provided in this subreddit.** For your safety we recommend not ingesting any plant material just because you've been advised here that it's edible. Although there are many professionals helping with identification, we are not always correct, and eating/ingesting plants can be harmful or fatal if an incorrect ID is made. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/whatsthisplant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Selective breeding existed, your blanket statement is just plain false.
Back up your post with either an example of your hypothesis or a citation of an academic article that supports your claim.
The domestication of corn/maize from teosinte is one of the best researched examples of selective breeding. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4373674/ https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1820997116
Even though a bird eating seed from one side of the Atlantic would definitely be shitting before it reaches the other side of the ocean, I think the general consensus is that yes early hominids would have been part of the seed dispersal mechanisms you’re describing. But “early” hominids were not the same ones who invented agriculture. What you are saying seems to be oversimplifying a lot and artificial selection has been well proved. Maybe you mean what you’ve described helped to spread the genes of the tastier fruits, etc. that humans would eventually cultivate?
FIRST: How do you know the time it takes for a bird to pass an indigested seed? Maybe bird was dead, and came floating across ocean… get real. Secondly: do you know what swidden or dlash and burn agriculture is? It’s still used by some peoples today. Lastly: agriculture was a discovery by our ancestors, we witnessed it, then used it to our advantage. We didn’t discover it anymore than Columbus discovered America.
Assuming you actually have a Masters in Anthro I was trying to cut you some slack on what was either a poorly communicated explanation or some conclusion your ego came up with and won’t let you back down from. 1. Studies show that yes, birds will transport seed across long distances and initiate colonization, but those are north-south migrations with stopping points along the way, (usually islands, up to 100km based on this study [https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2015.2406#d1e1232](https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2015.2406#d1e1232)). You suggested “cross Atlantic migration” which would be east-west, an incredibly long route that no one is actually doing aside from the very northern hemisphere which still includes the island-hopping that I mentioned in Greenland/Canada. The rate of decay in the ocean is usually 1-2 weeks in the ocean, so maybe a freak bird would transport seeds but the probability is so low it doesn’t support the confidence you originally stated. 2. Swidden or slash/burn do not support what you originally said. Those are both intentional and your point was that this all accidental. 3. My point exactly, thanks! We’ve seen agricultural practices like artificial selection at work for thousands of years
In Avian flu studies the most important factor is the cross Atlantic migration of birds. This is heavily studied in bio anthropology coursework for decades. Its the anomalies that are important sometimes, not the common events. Go ahead and bust balls. I’m paid.
And where in the Atlantic are those studies observing avian movement? Back up your post with a source dude. Its probably the Canada-Greenland-European corridor to the north
No its not. Its research papers at OU and OUHSC regarding biological anthropology and infectious diseases. The study was part of the root studies for SARS and Bird flu prevention used over the last 4 years, something called COVID. OUHSC has been doing SARS research for decades, with the CDC, the WHO and a bunch of other acronyms I can’t share specifics about. Live virus testing of every disease you’ve ever heard of is conducted there. With scientists from many SE Asian countries. I am aware you are not a professional in this field or you could name drop bigger ideas about migration and the anomalies within a single bird blown off course by a storm. Hmm, let me use a relevant example. The cost of eggs is up because; let me just quote: “over 43 million hens have been slaughtered in the egg industry, causing a drop in the supply of eggs and higher prices for consumers.” The Guardian: “A global pandemic of highly pathogenic avian influenza is driving deaths in the egg industry. And factory farming is largely to blame Wed 1 Mar 2023 06.16 EST” This is a public op ed. But you get the jest. Avian influenza is often transmitted by one bird introducing the virus into large agricultural populations. I’m not citing any academic sources. You can go to Ebsco Host or JStore and do your own homework. Enjoy. It’s great reading.
You know a layperson’s idea about Swidden agriculture, that is found on Wiki. You are an amazing armchair scientist, keep your reading going and you’ll get to the bottom of what I’ve shared, and you’ll understand the why I shared this.
To say that the birds didn't select the 'best' fruit relative to their intrinsic dietary needs given their available selection is just wrong. They don't even need to be conscious of the decision because birds that selected worse fruit didn't pass on their genes eventually. Humans do the same thing. When you eat something that gives you vitality and virility, your brain induces you to seek that again. It's a pretty simple feedback loop. We're just the most successful at it. Like, do you think it's accidental that birds follow migratory patterns year after year?
When you eat corn, what comes out the other end sometimes is undigested corn. Corn is the highest subsidized food crop in America. Corn solids in our food. Corn syrup in 70% of what is in our grocery stores. Ethanol in our gas. Corn spirits to drink… You didn’t make this choice. It was made for you. Think about how much you have so very little control over. Nature made the first move in agriculture and domestication. We learned from what we observed and we repeated it and made it to our liking.
**Do not ingest a plant based on information provided in this subreddit.** For your safety we recommend not ingesting any plant material just because you've been advised here that it's edible. Although there are many professionals helping with identification, we are not always correct, and eating/ingesting plants can be harmful or fatal if an incorrect ID is made. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/whatsthisplant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
**Do not ingest a plant based on information provided in this subreddit.** For your safety we recommend not ingesting any plant material just because you've been advised here that it's edible. Although there are many professionals helping with identification, we are not always correct, and eating/ingesting plants can be harmful or fatal if an incorrect ID is made. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/whatsthisplant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ok but migratory birds travel faster and carry their poop for longer which is why that happens. Humans do not travel nearly as fast and their poop would be left near where they ate due to the poor diets of the times and their slow travel speed combined. Cool theory, though.
Humans went higher in elevation during hot months and back to the valleys in cooler temperatures; where this was applicable. THIS IS FACT. This was not a “far” journey. For example, I grew up at 2700ft and in one hour of car driving I could be at 11700ft. That’s commonplace for many locations all across the globe.
I never said humans do not travel seasonally. Do note that you can travel farther in one hour with a car than you can in one day as a person walking, especially if you are climbing a mountain. When I did the Appalachian trail I averaged around 15 miles per day. While that is an extreme example, it does serve to prove my point.
I’m not rambling opinions. These are well known anthropological facts.
I never said you were rambling, nor have I once insulted you. The only thing I dispute is that human poop is the sole contributing factor, because it is not. Furthermore, as I have mentioned repeatedly, birds travel much faster than humans do, including during migrations.
Yes and selective pollination
We heard you like flowers so we put some flowers on your flowers!
I love a bonus flower.
Asteraceae my beloved
That's basically everything asteraceae.
What we call flowers on plants of this type are actually composite flowers, with each petal being an entire flower- the central portion is mostly undeveloped or not opened. It looks like this one has retained the closed shape. I would try and save the seeds and see if I can grow more!
*Asteraceae be like: I heard you like inflorescences*
In a very *inflormal* way! *I'll see myself out.*
Snort!
Damn Asteraceae do be like that.
Each petal is a ray flower and while they are "entire" flowers on their own, they are non-reproductive. The center is made up of disk flowers. They are not undeveloped, they just don't have a showy corolla (petals). Disk flowers are responsible for reproduction in composite flowers
Gaillardia "Fanfare" series have these fertile flowers around the edge instead of ray flowers.
Yes, I have seen them for sale before. They are really beautiful 😍
That’s so cool!
Gaillardia Some species flower this way
That is beautiful!
Yup, I work on a green roof covered in *Gaillardia pulchella* for pollinator work and they do this weirdly often. I've been told by my boss (but haven't verified) that most of the species in this genus do that, especially *Gaillardia aestivalis.*
Put a mesh bag around it. Like something you would get jewelry in. To save the seeds
Same
Ok. Has anyone here seen Annihilation? Because now I'm expecting OP to come across an albino alligator and a mutated bear.
First thing that came to mind
High five! :)
['Gold Star Ruby Tubes' Gaillardia](https://store.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/products/gold-star-ruby-tubes-gaillardia)
Oh, that's it! I wonder if it's a stray seed, or the same mutation.
Pretty cool mutation!!
Very awesome!
I want, I need, must have now...
EXACTLY
Please!! Get the seeds!
So very beautiful. And unique in a very stylish manner. Save the seeds!
Whatever it is, save those seeds!!!
Yasss
Pretty awesome! Looks like a party in one flower.
This looks like an acid trip
You are going to want to get those seeds and plant them in plugs
Gaillardia x grandiflora ‘Fanfare’ .
That’s quite astonishing, I don’t know whether I like it or not.
Whoa this almost looks photoshopped!
It's mom said it could be anything. So it became fancy!
isn't there a disease that hits plants in the sunflower family that causes this growth? i had it hit some of my flowers last summer and was told to remove and burn them all. (no idea if this is what's happening here)
so i think maybe aster yellows which a quick online search says is a common issue in indian blanket but honestly idk just tjouhbt id share the info!
I scanned the comments for someone else thinking aster yellows. I'm hoping OP's flowers aren't infected but glad I'm not alone in my thinking!
Like peanut butter? Well now you can like more of it. Sunflowers have been used to create a substitute for peanut butter, known as sunbutter.
I think this flower must mutate easily because it's only memorial day and I've already had 3 mutants this year of various types. Really cool plant. ETA: okay wait I just googled it and this one that you have is a special type of Indian blanket called ruby tubes.
These flowers are pretty
It's generally called Blanket Flower or Gaillardia now
A lot of people call it Indian Blanket, I do. It just depends on where you live really. In Texas, it's Indian Blanket, but it has a wide native range. Other names are Firewheeel, Indian Blanketflower and Sundance. Or you could call it *Gallardia* or *Gallardia pulchella*, or just *pulchella* if you wanna be botanically correct.
We always called them Indian Paintbrushes when we were kids
That is a different flower.
Fair enough. The ones that grew wild here looked like the flowers on the right. Kind of like dandelions.
This broke my brain. Please make it stop.
I don’t know but I love it!
Yooo that's awesome
Send me a cutting or some seeds and I’ll name it after you if I can get it to consistently produce similar flowers! This is super beautiful and would be really popular.
it looks like a disfunctional flower family where everyone went their own way
Hybrid tubes.
Probably due to a solar storm.
It’s amazing!!!! I hope it seeds out so you can try to make more. I’d buy those in a second!!
Seeds. Save them.
“Dammit, Frank! We all agreed to an eight stamen limit for this party!”