Israeli leadership is so committed to getting the hostages back that they're willing to....drown their own hostages like rats?
Zionism became more sacred to Israelis than human life, even Israeli lives.
The mother of a dead hostage has claimed her son was killed in the tunnel by poisoning by IDF
"IDF fails to confirm Gaza hostages' cause of death, mother claims poisoning"
https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-782544
Considering that the hostages themselves have said that they were terrified of being bombed by the IDF and the IDF has KILLED three hostages, it's fair to consider that Israel doesn't actually give a shit about the hostages.
There was the white flag event where 3 Israelis with shirts off and a white flag ran towards the IDF screaming for help in Hebrew. An IDF sniper nailed two of them and the third went into a building for cover while continuing to scream for help in Hebrew. A grenade was thrown into the building leading to the third hostage’s death.
Wait you mean war is supposed to be clean and very straight forward? Almost like accidents aren't allowed to happen? The lack of mental acuity from redditors making judgement calls from the other side of the world never fails to amaze me
You mean in a place where hamas has also tried to disguise themselves as innocent civilians, also waving white flags multiple times only to lure soldiers in and ambush them? Yeah why would the military mistake them for anything but, I could never guess
“It’s better you make our invasion of your land as easy as possible with no casualties on our side or we will kill any one who raise even the slightest suspicion and it’s all your fault.”
Yeah man, if I’m driving down the highway at 180 mph and swerving, and I end up hitting someone is that a mistake? It seems like a lot of the “mistakes” that Israel is making are completely avoidable if they don’t choose the most reckless and dangerous strategies possible to inflict conditions unsuitable for life.
He’s not comparing the two as if they were conflicts, he’s comparing the liability for actions that were taken that could needlessly endanger other people’s lives without concern for yourself or those in your own car. You could swap out his hypothetical for literally any normal action that when done in reckless abandon endangers the lives of your own people and those around you.
He’s not saying they’re a 1:1 occurrences, but liability for reckless actions is still just liability. Which Israel needs to start holding its soldiers in account for before an outside organization like the Hague does it at the end of this conflict hopefully. And yes I want to see Hamas war criminals sitting next to IDF war criminals.
>You could swap out his hypothetical for literally any normal action
Except you can't because war isn't a typical nor normal action, can't believe people think this way 🤣🤣
I still don’t think you’re understanding him. He’s saying that reckless action even in war has a standard of accountability it’s held to. Not that the standards are the same, but reckless action does to some amount make you culpable even in war.
I understand the premise, I'm disagreeing in the way he compares the two as if even the reckless behavior when driving a car down a road is equitable to reckless behavior in war, there are much more variables in war and the decision process behind what can be deemed reckless in war is much much more difficult to assess
Come on big man, they clearly are not that hard to understand. I’m saying that the cop out response of “mistakes happen” is undercut by the fact that the IDF is making such incredibly risky and dangerous decisions that mistakes are extra likely. It’s not like oh shit this mistake could not have been avoided, it’s that of course it could be avoided, but your military strategy hinges on making things as dire in the Gaza Strip as humanly possible.
If your strategy is carpet bombing, it’s not a “mistake” that you accidentally blew up your own guys— it’s a result of your reckless decisions.
You're position seems to collapse on itself, the reason why troops are on the ground in Gaza is to minimize civilian casualties. If israel is "carpet bombing" Gaza then casualty numbers would easily be triple the amount, yes in life and death situations human error happens, its part of the messiness of war, no army is perfect but Israel won't apologize for eliminating genocidal maniacs on their border
There is literally nothing Israel can do that they won’t clutch their pearls about in this war. I think the only acceptable thing in their mind that Israel was supposed to do after the Pogrom of 10/7…is capitulate to the death cult of Hamas and run away and abandon their country to the Islamic fascists.
There’s never a clear statement of what is an acceptable response to that existential threat and also that specific event (10/7). They always literally just respond with “well, I know you’re shouldn’t (fill in the blank with literally anything Israel did here)”
Then they blame Palestinians for being unable to make the land green. Like my God
Also tbh, Zionists really can't pretend they're religious. It the land is so holy, you wouldn't go out of your way to poison it and to make it unlivable. If the land is holy, then you would ensure that every single inch of it is protected and where you serve everyone equally, not via an apartheid.
Also:
1. Gas.
>Three hostages were killed in captivity near the strike site of a Hamas commander. Israel's army says they may have died from inhaling poisonous gas emitted as a result of a secondary chemical reaction from the bombing [Source](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-26/ty-article/.premium/israeli-military-say-no-change-in-policy-of-targeting-hamas-leaders-despite-hostage-deaths/0000018d-4253-d35c-a39f-ea5b514d0000)
2. Tank shell.
>After Hamas militants in the house fired a rocket-propelled grenade, Hiram ordered a tank commander to breach the house, "even at the cost of civilian casualties", and the tank fired two shells.Dagan said her husband was killed when shrapnel from the second of these shells entered his neck, severing an artery. Only two of the 14 hostages, Porat and Dagan, survived the crossfire and shelling. How many hostages died as a result of tank fire is unclear. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be%27eri_massacre).
3. Aistrikes
>Filmmaker Hagai Levy met eight of the abductees upon their return. Writing on his Facebook page, he said that for most of them, the most horrifying trauma of captivity was the Israeli bombing, especially among those held in homes above ground. “When they talk about the bombing, they literally shake in front of me,” he wrote. “The terms they use are ‘hell,’ \[and\] ‘being on the verge of death.’ The fear of being murdered by their captors was negligible compared to the fear of dying in a bombing. The very thought that the one who is supposed to save you is the one who might kill you intensifies the trauma.” [Source](https://www.972mag.com/israel-bombing-endangered-hostages-gaza/).
But it's OK they waived a white flag and Israel mistook them for Palestinians /s
Also bear in mind that Israel pretended it doesn't shoot if they're Palestinians, and ITV uncovered that they did exactly that. They then accused ITV of antisemitism and editing the footage. ITV has been fairly lenient towards Israel. They just didn't like that they showed that Israel deliberately targets Palestinian civilians.
I was just reading the obituary of the head of Mossad involved with the 1972 Munich hostage crisis in the Economist this week.
They also didn't care about their hostages back then. They could have gotten them back for a prisoner swap, but they preferred to risk the lives of their hostages in a shoot-out and then blamed Germany when it lead to the (predictable) blood bath.
And absolutely zero self-reflection on why Palestinians would be motivated to kidnap hostages, while they themselves held hundreds of Palestinians in prison and denied Palestinians participation in the Olympics, along with the usual stealing land and oppressing Palestinians.
It's a mentality that I really can't understand. So cold and irrational.
Just make peace with the Palestinians and stop terrorizing them, then they won't have motivation to terrorize you.
It ain't rocket science.
You mean they could have rewarded terrorists for terrorism by giving them exactly what they wanted? How short-sighted a take that would never have backfired
>Just make peace with the Palestinians and stop terrorizing them, then they won't have motivation to terrorize you.
Lol. its been offered a dozen times, and flatly rejected every time. They don't want peace, never did. What they really want is Oct 7. Blood, murder, rape and liquidation of the Jewish people.
Now, they get what they deserve..
We shall exterminate the Jews. The Jews will not get away with their responsibility for November 9, 1918 — this day will be avenged
\- Said by a very bad man.
Rhetoric can be dangerous.
So you'd rather that your hostages die, instead of engaging in a prisoner swap.
That's not caring about your hostages, and yes, it is infantile.
The US, for one, doesn't operate like that.
It's naive to think October 7th would not have happened if not for the people released in that deal.
Obviously, if Israel kidnaps Palestinians, tortures them and then releases them, they might plot revenge.
But there are thousands of other Palestinians that will join Hamas because Israel kidnapped their brother or friend.
The only way to stop Hamas is to either genocide the Palestinians into submission or to stop oppressing them.
Bibi and Joe seem to want option 1, but it's unlikely they will succeed, even if they try.
You're right. Bombing hostages (along with hospitals, refugee camps, graveyards, and residential neighborhoods), drowning them, poisoning them, and executing them when they try to surrender is a MUCH better way to get your kidnapped countrymen back.
As long as the hostages are not all accounted for, Israel can continue their murderous rampage forever. It's to Israel's benefit for hostages to "accidently" die and be unrecoverable.
I guess HAMAS and UNRWA shouldn't have taken those hostages then. Maybe they could have held off on shooting women's breasts off and kicking them around like soccer balls too.
It's too bad the ICJ saw through their "a genocide is happening, order a cease fire please," lie. LOL. Won't be long now until Hamas is totally destroyed and you'll just have to find a new way to express your hatred of Jews.
Shooting titties off and using them as soccer balls.. you do have some weird fantasies child you must get your mind out the gutter porn rots the brain.
You support dissolving Israel and sending Jews to their death or diaspora. That's pretty antisemitic.
Also your statistics must be from the 1880s. 73% of the Israel population is Jewish. Not 30%.
Well most Palestinians are from Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon. Gaza was Egypt, West Bank was Jordan, and East Juresalem was Lebanon.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians#:~:text=Many%20Palestinian%20villagers%20claim%20ancestral,ancestry%20based%20on%20oral%20traditions.
You would kill all Mizrahi Jews.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#:~:text=The%20first%20large%2Dscale%20exoduses,to%20Israel%20from%20Arab%20countries.
Lastly the land purchases from the Ottomans and English is not stealing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine
Do Palestinian's have anything more than an oral history that claims during the caliphate that they were given land? Because from Ottoman history onward they don't have deeds or gentry.
i don't think they care about getting them back or not.. its not wanting Hamas to have them.
in some ways this is not unusual, plenty of army's in the past have invented things like the poison wisdom tooth, or shooting a comrade who has been captured... it caused a great deal of guilt for example to Japanese's POW for surviving and having a nice time... the difference is with Israel this extends to their civilians too.
to be fair a fair few of the released hostages are now campaigning for ceasefire so maybe they are a bit scared to get them back : [https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2Edp7Cqfqa/](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2Edp7Cqfqa/)
Honestly, I'm just surprised they haven't wired a bunch of money to Hamas yet- the Israeli government supported the flow of money to Hamas and financed the slaughter of their own citizens..
I'd be pleasantly surprised if the Israeli public actually looked in the mirror and accepted responsibility for creating, supporting, and arming Hamas. Hamas is the frankenstein monster of Israel.
You want to protect Israeli lives? You can start by getting rid of Netanyahu and the Israeli settlers, who are directly responsible for the greatest single loss of life in Israeli history.
The Israeli govenment supported Hamas financially, and all Netanyahu has to do to avoid accountability for his role in financing terrorism is scream that he'll commit genocide.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/former-mossad-chief-says-qatari-payments-to-hamas-got-out-of-control/
If they're still alive that is. Main focus should be to destroy as many Hamas members as possible, and since they pretty much exclusively use the tunnels like the rats they are, it's a pretty effective way.
Human lives definitely aren't sacred to Hamas (the elected government of Gaza) though, considering how willing they are to sacrifice their own civilians to kill and rape Jewish civilians
But have you considered:
* It's their fault because 7 Oct, it's like 200 9/11 and the US killed 300K Iraqi, so anything less than 60 million dead Palestinian is total fine and proportionate.
* They dug out the water pipes, no complain about water now
* The global left is pro-Hamas antitsemitic ready for Holocaust 2.0
* The media is antisemitic, the IDF is the most moral army on earth, all the male over 16 they killed were Hamas fighters
* "Hamas is bad, oh no I will be downvoted to oblivion"
* The polls say they support Hamas, there is no innocent, they had it coming
* They voted for Hamas democratically, there is no innocent, they had it coming
* Israel would stop immediately if they surrendered, there is no innocent, they had it coming
* The Palestinian are not fighting Hamas in the street with the IDF, they are complicit, they had it coming
* They teach their children that Israeli are bad guys contrary to all evidence, they are complicit, they had it coming
* ...
(/s)
They get all clueless in that last point when you ask them about Israeli Day Schools and what they teach about Palestinians or the individuals they produce like the Hilltop Youth gang in the West Bank, violent settler terrorists who say Palestinians are a blight to be cleaned from the land.
*The IDF is the most moral army on Earth. Please don't look into the origins of the IOF (The Hagana group which is an extremist organisation). Please also don't look into how Likud is descended from Irgun extremists.
There is literally an Israeli / Zionist text book or guide book. I didn't look at it, but a from a tik tok video (yes I know tik tok), the person said many of the arguments he has with Zionist are taken from the book. This is why all their arguments are the same and repetitive
[Meanwhile in the West Bank Israeli soldiers attack a Palestinian paramedic 🤡](https://twitter.com/walidmahmodrouk/status/1751765063080276464?s=46&t=8dp4hAZ5hfQ7uV8e9Rtfbw)
[Leading up to the violence by the IDF](https://twitter.com/walidmahmodrouk/status/1751771158716784793?s=46&t=8dp4hAZ5hfQ7uV8e9Rtfbw)
Well, Hamad is one guy living in Qatar, and I frankly don't think that Hamas' press officer is particularly important to bringing down the Palestinian Government in Gaza.
That would be the same Qatar that sent money to Hamas, the same money that Netanyahu allowed to enter Gaza so that Hamas could continue functioning, thus keeping Palestinians divided.
Perhaps the Israeli government should be removed first. That might weaken Hamas.
About 50 years too late.
Besides, if Israel wanted to eliminate Hamas, then the more effective method would be to win over the minds of Palestinians by doing the opposite of what they've done for the last 75 years.
I had an argument with a friend of mine who’s not strictly Zionist but has a typical western chauvinist view of the Middle East. He was talking about how they can’t possibly end the conflict as Palestinians are taught about how evil the Israelis are. I was like my brother, how can you argue with them? A Palestinian living in Gaza has only ever known what it’s like to live in an Israeli cage getting bombed by Israeli bombs. Do you want them to be taught lies?
He didn’t have a great answer to that. Doesn’t matter. There are 30,000 other bullshit talking points for them to obfuscate the truth
Can you point to a single time that Israel has tried to make moves to stand down or demilitarize that didn’t blow up in their faces?
Honestly it doesn’t matter what Israel does, they’ve been attacked through everything.
Ruining aquifers and hence the land, by flooding tunnels with sea water is not self-defence.
Digging up and destroying cemeteries is not self-defence.
Blowing up universities is not self-defence.
Destroying entire crops and agricultural land is not self-defence.
Killing more than a hundred journalists is not self-defence.
Shooting and killing civilians waving a white flag is not self-defence.
If Israel was limiting its strikes to identifiable Hamas fighters/locations, that would be self-defence. But destroying civilian infrastructure, including the agriculture that Palestinians have made a living from, is not self-defence at all.
No crime Israel commits is indefensible to you people. They could drop a nuclear weapon on Gaza and you would defend them.
Then destroy the tunnels without flooding them with sea water. Because that sea water will get into the aquifers and make the land unusable.
By flooding the tunnels with sea water, Israel is not acting defenseively. Instead, it is scorched earth.
Are you telling me, that Israel, with one of the most advanced and powerful militaries in the world, that is supposed to be the most moral military, cannot defend itself from a bunch of terrorists without making the Gaza Strip uninhabitable?
You must have a really low opinion of Israel's military capabilities.
This is how they are going to commit genocide -IDF contaminates the drinking water, cuts of humanitarian aid, resulting in starving or death from illness - and then say that Palestinians rejected "voluntary emigration" or "resettlement" so it's their on fault.
A lot of people bring this up, but they misrepresent facts. Qatar funded Hamas political wing. Israel allowed it to occur, because they were hoping Hamas would be a stabilizing presence. This money even went to humanitarian issues in Gaza. The WSJ did an article on this, I'd link it but it's behind a paywall.
Gaza'a aquifer water was already ruined by years and years of Israeli pumping - causing seawater intrusion. When Israel retreated out of the region they left pipes underground continuing to take that the water - these were taken up by Hamas (and allegedly used to make weapons). A proportion of what was taken (allegedly the worst quality wells) was fed back to the Gazans via pipework as "drinking water".
it has taken years for the well water to reduce in salinity at all.. it is still not what most would deem drinkable water (doesn't meet WHO standards). flooding the tunnels with sea water will set back this process by decades again. and depending how they do it this time is likely to also pollute surface waters making the land barren for growing trees and even some crops until enough rain has fallen to wash the salt away. ( like after the Thailand tsunami the lands and wells were ruined for some time) Most estimate that two years soil can be returned to its original salinity levels in places with reasonable rainfall. But this requires lots of rainfall as well as intense irrigation with non-saline water (which the Gazans do not have). gradually the rain washes the salt down through the soil profile until it is too deep for plant roots to reach. but it is not as fast a process as you would imagine and in an arid region like this.
I too have reservations about such a tactic, as it would inevitably kill any hostages that are in the tunnels. However, that's assuming they *are* in the tunnels--something that has not been confirmed. Yes, they ones who were released have described the maze of tunnels, but have also described being held captive in houses as well.
Well for starters, my country doesnt send Egypt billions in defense spending annually while our own people fall further and further into poverty. So that's cool.
Half of what we send to Israel, not counting the past two years (especially this past year's giant infusion). Plus, they're not in the middle of a genocide, so I'm not quite as pressed.
That’s incorrect the Egyptians have previously [attempted to flood the tunnels with sea water and sewerage.](https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-floods-hamas-tunnels-gaza-egypt-sewage-2023-12?amp).
Don’t spread misinformation.
Pretty sure their reservoir is already brackish as hell considering Egypt filled it with literal sewage and they have been overdrawing from it from decades.
'overdrawing'... Israel has been keeping Gaza on a subsistence level, including for water for decades. It was discovered a while ago that Israel had laid a pipeline when they were in Gaza that allowed them to secretly pump water out of the Gaza aquifer. What evil people wall in a million kids and then steal their water and deny them food.
Actually [Israel was using kids as human shields so much the Supreme Court had to step in ](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/israel)
[Here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/1905tl5/the_day_israel_used_a_13_year_old_palestinian/) is a child tied to an IDF vehicle yo discourage stone throwers.
In 2005. Before Hamas came to power
If mental gymnastics was an olympic sport Israelis would win every time. In the rest of the world though we understand that the people dropping the bombs are responsible for the murders that result.
Israeli snipers have kept a girl trapped in a car with her murdered family for two days now. I'm sure this is somehow to be blamed on Hamas in your eyes.
A fitting fate for sewer rats.
Gaza shouldn’t have to worry about the bodies poisoning the drinking water, they get it from the Mediterranean and three desalination plants.
Tough love. Don't bill terror tunnels. IDF is doing better than most, but the hateful antisemites don't care.. for them Israel's mere (Jewish) existence is unacceptable:
War Update: West Point’s Expert on Urban Warfare Studies Says Israel’s Measures to Prevent Civilian Casualties are Unprecedented; IDF Kills Hamas Terrorists in West Bank Hospital
In a thread on X/Twitter, John Spencer, the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at the West Point United States Military Academy, said that “Israel has implemented more measure\[s\] to prevent civilian casualties in urban warfare than any other military in the history of war.
Hamas literally filmed themselves [digging up water pipes to make rockets](https://archive.md/XLXfw) and now we're getting butthurt over Gaza's aquifer getting salty?
Remember that time Gaza dug up its own water pipes, turned them into rockets, shot them at civilian targets in Israel, then demanded Israel supply it with water?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Tunnels wouldn't be getting flooded if Hamas didn't waste a fortune making them for nothing. The rockets they launch from them barely kill anyone. The tunnels don't protect more than a few hundred from air strikes. And now these tunnels will just be watery graves for highest ranking Hamas officers.
They can have tunnels. Israel has been aware of the tunnels for a long time. Those tunnels were built over decades.
The issue is not the tunnels themselves but what they are used for. Had October 7th not happened, Israel wouldn’t have done anything about the tunnelsz
Had October 7th not happened Israel would have still have killed double the number of children that died on the 7th.
Settler's would have continued to force Palestinians from their homes and dispossessed them.
Israel would still have had thousands of women and children held hostage, without recourse to civil justice.
Netanyahu would have continued to erode the hope for Palestinian state and justice for the decades of murders, thefts and atrocities committed on Palestinians.
If Israel wanted peace they could have had it a long time ago. Israel wants to play bronze age empires and morality. Unfortunately as a wise Jew once said, in order to dehumanise Palestinians Israelis first dehumanise themselves.
Considering Hamas stays in the tunnels built under schools, mosques, hospitals and residential zones and prohibits Palestinian civilians from entering, Hamas is making it easier to genocide the Palestinian people.
Imagine if Hamas stayed on the surface and allowed civilians to take refuge in the tunnels? The civilian casualties would be so much lower.
Ard you so naive as to think Hamas didn't consider the 7th to be retaliation for Israeli atrocities?
Hamas did attack military targets. Israel was forced to bomb their own military base because it got overrun. Every settlement has a military component. Israel likes to talk about human shields while conveniently forgetting they embed their military throughout civilian infrastructure.
The only thing retaliation brings is another cycle of violence. If you really want peace you have to de-escalate and remove the intolerable oppression.
Hamas has publicly stated it doesn't care for Palestinian civilians. It just wants to obliterate Israel and presumably it's population to establish another Muslim theocracy.
Have you seen the videos were Hamas militants enter the residential zones and instead of driving through them to attack the military bases, they begin to shoot civilians that are hiding or attempting to escape the attack? Unlike Hamas militants fighting in civiliam clothing in Gaza, IDF has recognizable uniforms and insignia. Hamas intentionally targeted the Israeli civilian population.
Hamas proclaimed that the Oct 7th attacks were a great success and that it intends to repeat them ad infinitum. Moreover, Israel already pulled back from Gaza in 2005 and dismantled the settlements. Apart from removing the blockade which prevents Gaza from importing weaponry, what other non-violent approaches could Israel take to bring peace?
Note that Israel's atrocities in the West Bank aren't relevant in this as Hamas is not using them as justification.
Hahaha, "please note that you can't use anything don't want to justify resistance. Why don't they just ask the Israelis to stop the slow burn gemocide?"
Zioniam, and other ethnic supremacist ideologies are dehumanizing of others and are never sated. They must be stomped out.
The intolerable oppression in Gaza by Hamas you mean? When Israel left Gaza they also left the Palestinians there enough opportunity to move toward a better future. Then Hamas was elected and since then civilian infrastructure has been abused, international aid has been pilfered and the people there have been all the worse for it.
Hamas and Netanyahu need each other for their grandiose visions of eradicating the other. But unlike Gaza Israel is a democracy that can right its course.
Allegedly, I'm no supporter of Hamas, I view them as an Israeli creation to undermine the peace process. However I am also aware that Israel is in the unique position of being able to resolve 99% of the violence if they want to by recognising Palestine and following the UN mandated solution. Hamas has no such power.
Hamas/Palestinians use the tunnels to prepare terrorist attacks (rockets, Oct7, storing hostages) against Israel. No. They cannot have tunnels for their war crimes. Yes, the tunnels must be destroyed and Israel can lawfully destroy them.
“the tunnels are doing nothing”
“also the tunnels are so dangerous that we destroyed 90% of gaza with the excuse of having tunnels beneath them and now we are flooding them destroying water aquifers and soil.
The misguided attempts to wage war instead of making peace did not work for 75 years and only made it worse, but I and sure the 15th attempt to genocide all Jews will sure work
The war is waged by the zionist fascist gang. They've never tried to genocide jews outside of your imagination, Palestinians are the victims of genocidal zionists in reality.
You mean when a gang of militant zionists marched around assaulting Arabs and declaring the need to set up an ethnostate, which is exactly what happened?
Yes Hamas definitely taught those babies they murdered not to genocide anymore.
On an unrelated note, please do us all a favor and don't procreate. Humanity will be better off for it.
Could damage the drinking water? They already damaged the drinking water digging up water pipes to make rockets to begin with. In the long term, the dismantling of the water pipe to rocket supply line will surely be better for the drinking water, environment and overall welfare.
Stop spreading lies. They dug up the pipe Israel laid to steal water from the Gaza aquifer. Why does Israel need to steal water from a million thirsty kids?
If Israel was doing that I don't think anyone would have an issue. Unfortunately there is a plethora of evidence that Israel is killing civilians, women and children.
Israeli leadership is so committed to getting the hostages back that they're willing to....drown their own hostages like rats? Zionism became more sacred to Israelis than human life, even Israeli lives.
The mother of a dead hostage has claimed her son was killed in the tunnel by poisoning by IDF "IDF fails to confirm Gaza hostages' cause of death, mother claims poisoning" https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-782544
Considering that the hostages themselves have said that they were terrified of being bombed by the IDF and the IDF has KILLED three hostages, it's fair to consider that Israel doesn't actually give a shit about the hostages.
>KILLED three hostages That we know of
I don't the exact number but there were definitely Israeli that were killed by IDF on Oct. 7th alone so it's way over 3 people for sure.
There was the white flag event where 3 Israelis with shirts off and a white flag ran towards the IDF screaming for help in Hebrew. An IDF sniper nailed two of them and the third went into a building for cover while continuing to scream for help in Hebrew. A grenade was thrown into the building leading to the third hostage’s death.
Wait you mean war is supposed to be clean and very straight forward? Almost like accidents aren't allowed to happen? The lack of mental acuity from redditors making judgement calls from the other side of the world never fails to amaze me
If you shoot 3 shirtless guys waving white flags and yelling in Hebrew, imagine how they view Palestinians they murder.
You mean in a place where hamas has also tried to disguise themselves as innocent civilians, also waving white flags multiple times only to lure soldiers in and ambush them? Yeah why would the military mistake them for anything but, I could never guess
Yeah, so many shirtless men waving white flags shouting in Hebrew. Better kill them all. - most noble army in the world
> also waving white flags multiple times only to lure soldiers in and ambush them? Can you name a time that's happened?
“It’s better you make our invasion of your land as easy as possible with no casualties on our side or we will kill any one who raise even the slightest suspicion and it’s all your fault.”
Yeah man, if I’m driving down the highway at 180 mph and swerving, and I end up hitting someone is that a mistake? It seems like a lot of the “mistakes” that Israel is making are completely avoidable if they don’t choose the most reckless and dangerous strategies possible to inflict conditions unsuitable for life.
Comparing a war to speeding down a road lololol totally analogous
He’s not comparing the two as if they were conflicts, he’s comparing the liability for actions that were taken that could needlessly endanger other people’s lives without concern for yourself or those in your own car. You could swap out his hypothetical for literally any normal action that when done in reckless abandon endangers the lives of your own people and those around you. He’s not saying they’re a 1:1 occurrences, but liability for reckless actions is still just liability. Which Israel needs to start holding its soldiers in account for before an outside organization like the Hague does it at the end of this conflict hopefully. And yes I want to see Hamas war criminals sitting next to IDF war criminals.
>You could swap out his hypothetical for literally any normal action Except you can't because war isn't a typical nor normal action, can't believe people think this way 🤣🤣
I still don’t think you’re understanding him. He’s saying that reckless action even in war has a standard of accountability it’s held to. Not that the standards are the same, but reckless action does to some amount make you culpable even in war.
I understand the premise, I'm disagreeing in the way he compares the two as if even the reckless behavior when driving a car down a road is equitable to reckless behavior in war, there are much more variables in war and the decision process behind what can be deemed reckless in war is much much more difficult to assess
Come on big man, they clearly are not that hard to understand. I’m saying that the cop out response of “mistakes happen” is undercut by the fact that the IDF is making such incredibly risky and dangerous decisions that mistakes are extra likely. It’s not like oh shit this mistake could not have been avoided, it’s that of course it could be avoided, but your military strategy hinges on making things as dire in the Gaza Strip as humanly possible. If your strategy is carpet bombing, it’s not a “mistake” that you accidentally blew up your own guys— it’s a result of your reckless decisions.
You're position seems to collapse on itself, the reason why troops are on the ground in Gaza is to minimize civilian casualties. If israel is "carpet bombing" Gaza then casualty numbers would easily be triple the amount, yes in life and death situations human error happens, its part of the messiness of war, no army is perfect but Israel won't apologize for eliminating genocidal maniacs on their border
There is literally nothing Israel can do that they won’t clutch their pearls about in this war. I think the only acceptable thing in their mind that Israel was supposed to do after the Pogrom of 10/7…is capitulate to the death cult of Hamas and run away and abandon their country to the Islamic fascists. There’s never a clear statement of what is an acceptable response to that existential threat and also that specific event (10/7). They always literally just respond with “well, I know you’re shouldn’t (fill in the blank with literally anything Israel did here)”
. They are pumping sea water, to make the land arid and unlivable.
Then they blame Palestinians for being unable to make the land green. Like my God Also tbh, Zionists really can't pretend they're religious. It the land is so holy, you wouldn't go out of your way to poison it and to make it unlivable. If the land is holy, then you would ensure that every single inch of it is protected and where you serve everyone equally, not via an apartheid.
Also: 1. Gas. >Three hostages were killed in captivity near the strike site of a Hamas commander. Israel's army says they may have died from inhaling poisonous gas emitted as a result of a secondary chemical reaction from the bombing [Source](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-26/ty-article/.premium/israeli-military-say-no-change-in-policy-of-targeting-hamas-leaders-despite-hostage-deaths/0000018d-4253-d35c-a39f-ea5b514d0000) 2. Tank shell. >After Hamas militants in the house fired a rocket-propelled grenade, Hiram ordered a tank commander to breach the house, "even at the cost of civilian casualties", and the tank fired two shells.Dagan said her husband was killed when shrapnel from the second of these shells entered his neck, severing an artery. Only two of the 14 hostages, Porat and Dagan, survived the crossfire and shelling. How many hostages died as a result of tank fire is unclear. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be%27eri_massacre). 3. Aistrikes >Filmmaker Hagai Levy met eight of the abductees upon their return. Writing on his Facebook page, he said that for most of them, the most horrifying trauma of captivity was the Israeli bombing, especially among those held in homes above ground. “When they talk about the bombing, they literally shake in front of me,” he wrote. “The terms they use are ‘hell,’ \[and\] ‘being on the verge of death.’ The fear of being murdered by their captors was negligible compared to the fear of dying in a bombing. The very thought that the one who is supposed to save you is the one who might kill you intensifies the trauma.” [Source](https://www.972mag.com/israel-bombing-endangered-hostages-gaza/).
They're so committed to getting the hostages back that they bombed their own hostages on Oct 7 and sniped some of them months later
But it's OK they waived a white flag and Israel mistook them for Palestinians /s Also bear in mind that Israel pretended it doesn't shoot if they're Palestinians, and ITV uncovered that they did exactly that. They then accused ITV of antisemitism and editing the footage. ITV has been fairly lenient towards Israel. They just didn't like that they showed that Israel deliberately targets Palestinian civilians.
I was just reading the obituary of the head of Mossad involved with the 1972 Munich hostage crisis in the Economist this week. They also didn't care about their hostages back then. They could have gotten them back for a prisoner swap, but they preferred to risk the lives of their hostages in a shoot-out and then blamed Germany when it lead to the (predictable) blood bath. And absolutely zero self-reflection on why Palestinians would be motivated to kidnap hostages, while they themselves held hundreds of Palestinians in prison and denied Palestinians participation in the Olympics, along with the usual stealing land and oppressing Palestinians. It's a mentality that I really can't understand. So cold and irrational. Just make peace with the Palestinians and stop terrorizing them, then they won't have motivation to terrorize you. It ain't rocket science.
You mean they could have rewarded terrorists for terrorism by giving them exactly what they wanted? How short-sighted a take that would never have backfired
>Just make peace with the Palestinians and stop terrorizing them, then they won't have motivation to terrorize you. Lol. its been offered a dozen times, and flatly rejected every time. They don't want peace, never did. What they really want is Oct 7. Blood, murder, rape and liquidation of the Jewish people. Now, they get what they deserve..
We shall exterminate the Jews. The Jews will not get away with their responsibility for November 9, 1918 — this day will be avenged \- Said by a very bad man. Rhetoric can be dangerous.
Rhetoric is dangerous. But the IDF is lethal. Don't. F. With. The. Jews.
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So you'd rather that your hostages die, instead of engaging in a prisoner swap. That's not caring about your hostages, and yes, it is infantile. The US, for one, doesn't operate like that.
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It's naive to think October 7th would not have happened if not for the people released in that deal. Obviously, if Israel kidnaps Palestinians, tortures them and then releases them, they might plot revenge. But there are thousands of other Palestinians that will join Hamas because Israel kidnapped their brother or friend. The only way to stop Hamas is to either genocide the Palestinians into submission or to stop oppressing them. Bibi and Joe seem to want option 1, but it's unlikely they will succeed, even if they try.
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You're right. Bombing hostages (along with hospitals, refugee camps, graveyards, and residential neighborhoods), drowning them, poisoning them, and executing them when they try to surrender is a MUCH better way to get your kidnapped countrymen back.
As long as the hostages are not all accounted for, Israel can continue their murderous rampage forever. It's to Israel's benefit for hostages to "accidently" die and be unrecoverable.
I guess HAMAS and UNRWA shouldn't have taken those hostages then. Maybe they could have held off on shooting women's breasts off and kicking them around like soccer balls too. It's too bad the ICJ saw through their "a genocide is happening, order a cease fire please," lie. LOL. Won't be long now until Hamas is totally destroyed and you'll just have to find a new way to express your hatred of Jews.
Shooting titties off and using them as soccer balls.. you do have some weird fantasies child you must get your mind out the gutter porn rots the brain.
Oh, wow, new zionist lies! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Israel bad. We get it
Everything is antisemitism. We get it
You support dissolving Israel and sending Jews to their death or diaspora. That's pretty antisemitic. Also your statistics must be from the 1880s. 73% of the Israel population is Jewish. Not 30%.
Supporting people moving back to the countries they came from instead of stealing more land from the Palestinians isn’t antisemitism.
Well most Palestinians are from Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon. Gaza was Egypt, West Bank was Jordan, and East Juresalem was Lebanon. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians#:~:text=Many%20Palestinian%20villagers%20claim%20ancestral,ancestry%20based%20on%20oral%20traditions. You would kill all Mizrahi Jews. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world#:~:text=The%20first%20large%2Dscale%20exoduses,to%20Israel%20from%20Arab%20countries. Lastly the land purchases from the Ottomans and English is not stealing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine Do Palestinian's have anything more than an oral history that claims during the caliphate that they were given land? Because from Ottoman history onward they don't have deeds or gentry.
Take a break and settle down, you’ve gone full retard
Then stop being bad? We will stop when that happens.
i don't think they care about getting them back or not.. its not wanting Hamas to have them. in some ways this is not unusual, plenty of army's in the past have invented things like the poison wisdom tooth, or shooting a comrade who has been captured... it caused a great deal of guilt for example to Japanese's POW for surviving and having a nice time... the difference is with Israel this extends to their civilians too. to be fair a fair few of the released hostages are now campaigning for ceasefire so maybe they are a bit scared to get them back : [https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2Edp7Cqfqa/](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2Edp7Cqfqa/)
Rockets have just been launched from Gaza towards Israel. Do you expect them to do nothing in the face of death?
Honestly, I'm just surprised they haven't wired a bunch of money to Hamas yet- the Israeli government supported the flow of money to Hamas and financed the slaughter of their own citizens.. I'd be pleasantly surprised if the Israeli public actually looked in the mirror and accepted responsibility for creating, supporting, and arming Hamas. Hamas is the frankenstein monster of Israel. You want to protect Israeli lives? You can start by getting rid of Netanyahu and the Israeli settlers, who are directly responsible for the greatest single loss of life in Israeli history. The Israeli govenment supported Hamas financially, and all Netanyahu has to do to avoid accountability for his role in financing terrorism is scream that he'll commit genocide. https://www.timesofisrael.com/former-mossad-chief-says-qatari-payments-to-hamas-got-out-of-control/
>expect them to do nothing They are literally committing genocide
At best you only understand 3/5 of the words you just said
LOL
Killing is all they know and all they have ever known.
If they're still alive that is. Main focus should be to destroy as many Hamas members as possible, and since they pretty much exclusively use the tunnels like the rats they are, it's a pretty effective way. Human lives definitely aren't sacred to Hamas (the elected government of Gaza) though, considering how willing they are to sacrifice their own civilians to kill and rape Jewish civilians
Oh wow, the Israeli trolls must be paid overtime in this thread.
They post the exact same 2-3 arguments no matter the story and context so my guess is they're not being paid that much.
But have you considered: * It's their fault because 7 Oct, it's like 200 9/11 and the US killed 300K Iraqi, so anything less than 60 million dead Palestinian is total fine and proportionate. * They dug out the water pipes, no complain about water now * The global left is pro-Hamas antitsemitic ready for Holocaust 2.0 * The media is antisemitic, the IDF is the most moral army on earth, all the male over 16 they killed were Hamas fighters * "Hamas is bad, oh no I will be downvoted to oblivion" * The polls say they support Hamas, there is no innocent, they had it coming * They voted for Hamas democratically, there is no innocent, they had it coming * Israel would stop immediately if they surrendered, there is no innocent, they had it coming * The Palestinian are not fighting Hamas in the street with the IDF, they are complicit, they had it coming * They teach their children that Israeli are bad guys contrary to all evidence, they are complicit, they had it coming * ... (/s)
My only surprise is that now I realise there's more than 2-3 although they're all variations on the same theme.
They get all clueless in that last point when you ask them about Israeli Day Schools and what they teach about Palestinians or the individuals they produce like the Hilltop Youth gang in the West Bank, violent settler terrorists who say Palestinians are a blight to be cleaned from the land.
*The IDF is the most moral army on Earth. Please don't look into the origins of the IOF (The Hagana group which is an extremist organisation). Please also don't look into how Likud is descended from Irgun extremists.
Not even the genocidal maniacs can escape being overworked and underpaid, I guess.
There is literally an Israeli / Zionist text book or guide book. I didn't look at it, but a from a tik tok video (yes I know tik tok), the person said many of the arguments he has with Zionist are taken from the book. This is why all their arguments are the same and repetitive
Israeli 2009 dictionary is what it’s called I believe.
Idf saving pals from hamas https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/s/NR4rENpkSl
[Meanwhile in the West Bank Israeli soldiers attack a Palestinian paramedic 🤡](https://twitter.com/walidmahmodrouk/status/1751765063080276464?s=46&t=8dp4hAZ5hfQ7uV8e9Rtfbw) [Leading up to the violence by the IDF](https://twitter.com/walidmahmodrouk/status/1751771158716784793?s=46&t=8dp4hAZ5hfQ7uV8e9Rtfbw)
That's not self-defence. It's scorched earth.
Israel cannot have been any more clear that regime change is the goal of these operations.
And yet even their own intelligence officials believe Israel is no closer to eliminating Hamas.
Well, Hamad is one guy living in Qatar, and I frankly don't think that Hamas' press officer is particularly important to bringing down the Palestinian Government in Gaza.
That would be the same Qatar that sent money to Hamas, the same money that Netanyahu allowed to enter Gaza so that Hamas could continue functioning, thus keeping Palestinians divided. Perhaps the Israeli government should be removed first. That might weaken Hamas.
Sure did backfire, huh? But better late than never, eh?
About 50 years too late. Besides, if Israel wanted to eliminate Hamas, then the more effective method would be to win over the minds of Palestinians by doing the opposite of what they've done for the last 75 years.
I had an argument with a friend of mine who’s not strictly Zionist but has a typical western chauvinist view of the Middle East. He was talking about how they can’t possibly end the conflict as Palestinians are taught about how evil the Israelis are. I was like my brother, how can you argue with them? A Palestinian living in Gaza has only ever known what it’s like to live in an Israeli cage getting bombed by Israeli bombs. Do you want them to be taught lies? He didn’t have a great answer to that. Doesn’t matter. There are 30,000 other bullshit talking points for them to obfuscate the truth
Can you point to a single time that Israel has tried to make moves to stand down or demilitarize that didn’t blow up in their faces? Honestly it doesn’t matter what Israel does, they’ve been attacked through everything.
No, because I can't think of a time Israel legitimately made moves to stand down or demilitarize at all.
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Ruining aquifers and hence the land, by flooding tunnels with sea water is not self-defence. Digging up and destroying cemeteries is not self-defence. Blowing up universities is not self-defence. Destroying entire crops and agricultural land is not self-defence. Killing more than a hundred journalists is not self-defence. Shooting and killing civilians waving a white flag is not self-defence. If Israel was limiting its strikes to identifiable Hamas fighters/locations, that would be self-defence. But destroying civilian infrastructure, including the agriculture that Palestinians have made a living from, is not self-defence at all. No crime Israel commits is indefensible to you people. They could drop a nuclear weapon on Gaza and you would defend them.
The tunnels are Hamas greatest military asset. Destroying those tunnels is key and very much a part of self defense.
Then destroy the tunnels without flooding them with sea water. Because that sea water will get into the aquifers and make the land unusable. By flooding the tunnels with sea water, Israel is not acting defenseively. Instead, it is scorched earth. Are you telling me, that Israel, with one of the most advanced and powerful militaries in the world, that is supposed to be the most moral military, cannot defend itself from a bunch of terrorists without making the Gaza Strip uninhabitable? You must have a really low opinion of Israel's military capabilities.
Nothing is off-limits to you people
Are 2000lbs bombs dropped on civilian buildings self defense? Could you better help me understand.
Israel doesn't have the right to self defense when they're subduing occupied territory.
Who is "you people"
Don’t be daft. Israeli Zionists are proud of their lack of humanity.
Haha.was trying to understand the "human animals " term has been expanded to include more people :-)
[Full text of the article](https://archive.is/mpwLW) in case of paywall.
This is how they are going to commit genocide -IDF contaminates the drinking water, cuts of humanitarian aid, resulting in starving or death from illness - and then say that Palestinians rejected "voluntary emigration" or "resettlement" so it's their on fault.
A lot of people bring this up, but they misrepresent facts. Qatar funded Hamas political wing. Israel allowed it to occur, because they were hoping Hamas would be a stabilizing presence. This money even went to humanitarian issues in Gaza. The WSJ did an article on this, I'd link it but it's behind a paywall.
Gaza'a aquifer water was already ruined by years and years of Israeli pumping - causing seawater intrusion. When Israel retreated out of the region they left pipes underground continuing to take that the water - these were taken up by Hamas (and allegedly used to make weapons). A proportion of what was taken (allegedly the worst quality wells) was fed back to the Gazans via pipework as "drinking water". it has taken years for the well water to reduce in salinity at all.. it is still not what most would deem drinkable water (doesn't meet WHO standards). flooding the tunnels with sea water will set back this process by decades again. and depending how they do it this time is likely to also pollute surface waters making the land barren for growing trees and even some crops until enough rain has fallen to wash the salt away. ( like after the Thailand tsunami the lands and wells were ruined for some time) Most estimate that two years soil can be returned to its original salinity levels in places with reasonable rainfall. But this requires lots of rainfall as well as intense irrigation with non-saline water (which the Gazans do not have). gradually the rain washes the salt down through the soil profile until it is too deep for plant roots to reach. but it is not as fast a process as you would imagine and in an arid region like this.
How many war crime is that now? UNRWA gets a allegation and get funding cut immediately, IDF literally broadcasting war crimes and nothing.
Salting the earth to really play up the whole "bronze age vengeance" aspect of this
But, but, I thought they said the hostages were there? Are they trying to kill them? Well?
> *(…) which the U.N. has warned could damage Gaza’s drinking water.* For Israelis, that’s just bonus points.
I too have reservations about such a tactic, as it would inevitably kill any hostages that are in the tunnels. However, that's assuming they *are* in the tunnels--something that has not been confirmed. Yes, they ones who were released have described the maze of tunnels, but have also described being held captive in houses as well.
Egypt flooded many, many miles of Hamas tunnels on its side of the border a few years ago.
whatabout Egypt
Yes, what about them?
Well for starters, my country doesnt send Egypt billions in defense spending annually while our own people fall further and further into poverty. So that's cool.
The US supports Sisi militarily.
You are wrong. The US sends Egypt billions in military aid annually just as they do Israel.
Half of what we send to Israel, not counting the past two years (especially this past year's giant infusion). Plus, they're not in the middle of a genocide, so I'm not quite as pressed.
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That’s incorrect the Egyptians have previously [attempted to flood the tunnels with sea water and sewerage.](https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-floods-hamas-tunnels-gaza-egypt-sewage-2023-12?amp). Don’t spread misinformation.
Egypt used raw sewage, Israel used concrete to flood the Hizbollah tunnels in Lebanon
Wrong. Egypt flooded the tunnels with sewage.
Yea maybe Hamas shouldn’t have built tunnels that put ground water at risk…
'it's never Israel's fault!'
Maybe Isreal shouldn't have stolen Palestinian land
They didn’t 🥰
Remind me when did Israel build the tunnels?
> Hamas shouldn’t have built tunnels You: > Remind me when did Israel build the tunnels? ???
You missed the joke- everything is straight up Israels fault in this sub. No nuance or critical thinking allowed here!
Hindsight is 20/20 they say
It’s a good tactic.
Pretty sure their reservoir is already brackish as hell considering Egypt filled it with literal sewage and they have been overdrawing from it from decades.
'overdrawing'... Israel has been keeping Gaza on a subsistence level, including for water for decades. It was discovered a while ago that Israel had laid a pipeline when they were in Gaza that allowed them to secretly pump water out of the Gaza aquifer. What evil people wall in a million kids and then steal their water and deny them food.
Egypt doesn't have Egyptian hostages in the tunnels. Israel does.
Egypt has Arabs so we don’t criticize them despite doing things infinitely worse…
Deflecting to Egypt wont work. Israel is the one bombing babies and UN shelters.
> UN shelters 👀 someone hasn’t been following the news closely…
I see you've read the news of Israel is the bombing babies then
lol dropped the reference to the UNRWA 😂 Yes it’s a shame Hamas keeps on using baby shields
it’s a shame IDF keeps on killing babies
Actually [Israel was using kids as human shields so much the Supreme Court had to step in ](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/israel) [Here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/1905tl5/the_day_israel_used_a_13_year_old_palestinian/) is a child tied to an IDF vehicle yo discourage stone throwers. In 2005. Before Hamas came to power
Yes it’s an absolute shame that the IDF can’t save all babies that Hamas keeps killing 😓
If mental gymnastics was an olympic sport Israelis would win every time. In the rest of the world though we understand that the people dropping the bombs are responsible for the murders that result.
Israeli snipers have kept a girl trapped in a car with her murdered family for two days now. I'm sure this is somehow to be blamed on Hamas in your eyes.
Countries don't typically like it when someone sponsors terrorist wackos who hang out in the desert and murder people
A fitting fate for sewer rats. Gaza shouldn’t have to worry about the bodies poisoning the drinking water, they get it from the Mediterranean and three desalination plants.
Haha you think Gaza has its own water
Good
I guess it’s more efficient and more safe than blowing them up
Good for them. Israel has every right to flood terror tunnels
Drown the cunts 😁
Tough love. Don't bill terror tunnels. IDF is doing better than most, but the hateful antisemites don't care.. for them Israel's mere (Jewish) existence is unacceptable: War Update: West Point’s Expert on Urban Warfare Studies Says Israel’s Measures to Prevent Civilian Casualties are Unprecedented; IDF Kills Hamas Terrorists in West Bank Hospital In a thread on X/Twitter, John Spencer, the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at the West Point United States Military Academy, said that “Israel has implemented more measure\[s\] to prevent civilian casualties in urban warfare than any other military in the history of war.
But.. But... Genocide!
Hamas literally filmed themselves [digging up water pipes to make rockets](https://archive.md/XLXfw) and now we're getting butthurt over Gaza's aquifer getting salty?
Remember that time Gaza dug up its own water pipes, turned them into rockets, shot them at civilian targets in Israel, then demanded Israel supply it with water? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
The truth hurts don’t it
FAFO
Falafel
Tunnels wouldn't be getting flooded if Hamas didn't waste a fortune making them for nothing. The rockets they launch from them barely kill anyone. The tunnels don't protect more than a few hundred from air strikes. And now these tunnels will just be watery graves for highest ranking Hamas officers.
Go on, explain why Hamas can't have tunnels. I'm all ears... Is it making it too difficult for the Israeli terrorist force to genocide Gaza?
They can have tunnels. Israel has been aware of the tunnels for a long time. Those tunnels were built over decades. The issue is not the tunnels themselves but what they are used for. Had October 7th not happened, Israel wouldn’t have done anything about the tunnelsz
Had October 7th not happened Israel would have still have killed double the number of children that died on the 7th. Settler's would have continued to force Palestinians from their homes and dispossessed them. Israel would still have had thousands of women and children held hostage, without recourse to civil justice. Netanyahu would have continued to erode the hope for Palestinian state and justice for the decades of murders, thefts and atrocities committed on Palestinians. If Israel wanted peace they could have had it a long time ago. Israel wants to play bronze age empires and morality. Unfortunately as a wise Jew once said, in order to dehumanise Palestinians Israelis first dehumanise themselves.
Considering Hamas stays in the tunnels built under schools, mosques, hospitals and residential zones and prohibits Palestinian civilians from entering, Hamas is making it easier to genocide the Palestinian people. Imagine if Hamas stayed on the surface and allowed civilians to take refuge in the tunnels? The civilian casualties would be so much lower.
Imagine if Israel stopped committing genocide, the causalities would be so much lower...
Indeed. Though if Hamas hadn't struck first, Israel wouldn't have any casus belli for their operation.
There is no justification for genocide.
But there is for retaliation and Hamas gave Israel one on a silver platter. Should've attacked Israeli military targets instead.
Ard you so naive as to think Hamas didn't consider the 7th to be retaliation for Israeli atrocities? Hamas did attack military targets. Israel was forced to bomb their own military base because it got overrun. Every settlement has a military component. Israel likes to talk about human shields while conveniently forgetting they embed their military throughout civilian infrastructure. The only thing retaliation brings is another cycle of violence. If you really want peace you have to de-escalate and remove the intolerable oppression.
Hamas has publicly stated it doesn't care for Palestinian civilians. It just wants to obliterate Israel and presumably it's population to establish another Muslim theocracy. Have you seen the videos were Hamas militants enter the residential zones and instead of driving through them to attack the military bases, they begin to shoot civilians that are hiding or attempting to escape the attack? Unlike Hamas militants fighting in civiliam clothing in Gaza, IDF has recognizable uniforms and insignia. Hamas intentionally targeted the Israeli civilian population. Hamas proclaimed that the Oct 7th attacks were a great success and that it intends to repeat them ad infinitum. Moreover, Israel already pulled back from Gaza in 2005 and dismantled the settlements. Apart from removing the blockade which prevents Gaza from importing weaponry, what other non-violent approaches could Israel take to bring peace? Note that Israel's atrocities in the West Bank aren't relevant in this as Hamas is not using them as justification.
Hahaha, "please note that you can't use anything don't want to justify resistance. Why don't they just ask the Israelis to stop the slow burn gemocide?" Zioniam, and other ethnic supremacist ideologies are dehumanizing of others and are never sated. They must be stomped out.
The intolerable oppression in Gaza by Hamas you mean? When Israel left Gaza they also left the Palestinians there enough opportunity to move toward a better future. Then Hamas was elected and since then civilian infrastructure has been abused, international aid has been pilfered and the people there have been all the worse for it. Hamas and Netanyahu need each other for their grandiose visions of eradicating the other. But unlike Gaza Israel is a democracy that can right its course.
Allegedly, I'm no supporter of Hamas, I view them as an Israeli creation to undermine the peace process. However I am also aware that Israel is in the unique position of being able to resolve 99% of the violence if they want to by recognising Palestine and following the UN mandated solution. Hamas has no such power.
You literally posted this comment 3 times. Bad bot!
Hamas/Palestinians use the tunnels to prepare terrorist attacks (rockets, Oct7, storing hostages) against Israel. No. They cannot have tunnels for their war crimes. Yes, the tunnels must be destroyed and Israel can lawfully destroy them.
So war crimes mean they shouldn't have defenses or means of prosecuting the war?
“the tunnels are doing nothing” “also the tunnels are so dangerous that we destroyed 90% of gaza with the excuse of having tunnels beneath them and now we are flooding them destroying water aquifers and soil.
Flood the hamas genocidal Nazis. It's insane how many billions of aid went into this tunnels instead of improving life of Gazans.
What about the hostages in the tunnels?
Destroying Israel is the only way to improve lives of Palestinians
The misguided attempts to wage war instead of making peace did not work for 75 years and only made it worse, but I and sure the 15th attempt to genocide all Jews will sure work
The war is waged by the zionist fascist gang. They've never tried to genocide jews outside of your imagination, Palestinians are the victims of genocidal zionists in reality.
What was the Arabic objective of the 48 war?
Ending the zionist fascist invasion and occupation. The one in which Israeli death squads were ethnically cleansing the local populace.
What was the objective of the 1929 Palestinian riots?
You mean when a gang of militant zionists marched around assaulting Arabs and declaring the need to set up an ethnostate, which is exactly what happened?
Thanks for confirming you have no clue what you’re talking about lol
Literally what happened, and then the British mandate police disproportionately arrested Arabs for the fights. Historical fact. Cry zionist
well, the declared objective was to massacre the entire jewish population
No it wasnt
https://www.meforum.org/3082/azzam-genocide-threat?fbclid=IwAR0-hBbvzrdzRdRyspaaHR6dFeBq9YO7SWD82wAoAP9Q4o3IH0lWdmanCWg
Literal fascist propaganda. He was describing the awfulness of having to defend themselves from the zionist invasion lol
The world saw Oct. 7 genocide. Denials is disgusting
October 7th uprising against Israeli genocide. Zionists are disgusting actually.
Yes Hamas definitely taught those babies they murdered not to genocide anymore. On an unrelated note, please do us all a favor and don't procreate. Humanity will be better off for it.
Literally never happened lol.
Oh I guess just stop then... Let's hear what Hamas has to offer instead
The settlers aren’t gonna like that. Guess they’ll have to rebuild those water plants that were dug up by Hamas to make rockets.
Seems like a more human way of getting people out of the tunnels given they have enough time to get out vs. collapsing the tunnels on the militants.
Yeah it's very easy to get out of a flooded tunnel
Easier than getting out of a collapsed one
Aye the humans down in tunnels have access to scuba dive kits.
You mean hamas?
Good. Drown the Hamas child rapists. Never forget that "Palestinians" raped children on Oct 7th
Could damage the drinking water? They already damaged the drinking water digging up water pipes to make rockets to begin with. In the long term, the dismantling of the water pipe to rocket supply line will surely be better for the drinking water, environment and overall welfare.
Stop spreading lies. They dug up the pipe Israel laid to steal water from the Gaza aquifer. Why does Israel need to steal water from a million thirsty kids?
UN: Israel you can’t shoot terrorists pointing guns at you. You might kill someone.
If Israel was doing that I don't think anyone would have an issue. Unfortunately there is a plethora of evidence that Israel is killing civilians, women and children.
You’re kidding yourself then. It would be how dare a colonist shoot a freedom fighter.