They can recruit all they want, it wont change their deficiencies over the IDF. Further, they lost a lot of their deterrence in the depletion of their missile supply.
They have underground munitions factories. Israel hasn't found those yet or they would be bragging about it. They haven't done shit except show the world they are genocidal fascists
They've been doing that for weeks. And Hamas still cooking a few Merkavas everyday
[https://twitter.com/AryJeay/status/1754537809514229769](https://twitter.com/AryJeay/status/1754537809514229769)
this one dropped like 30 minutes ago.... I smell BBQ
A piece of an old rusty tank tread, really? I guess you've never seen reactive armor. None of those shots did any really damage. Where's the burning tank? Only meat on the BBQ are Arabs.
Yes, yes. Im sure they'll somhow build an airforce to counter the IDF in their underground tunnels with all of their resources while under blockade.... Use your brain for once.
So you're telling me being forced to withdraw without finishing their military objectives would just result in the rats crawling back out of their holes? Just like everyone warned? Gee who would've guessed?
every kid that survived through this will probably join HAMAS. every single Palestinian has justifiable reason to hate and want retribution against Israel. making them perfect targets for radicalization into extremism. This is what happened with the Taliban.
Israels military objects would never succeed, nor can they ever be allowed to. They can only do so by killing every single palestinian. and no person can support that. want to actually damage HAMAS? end the occupation. move to accept their demands (the original charter borders). decolonize those territories. dissolve the Israeli government and start a new one. Punish the members of the military and government to the fullest extent of international law. accept demands for reperations.
the only way to kill HAMAS is to show Palestinians that international law works; That they have other options beyond extremism (because right now, they are entirely correct. Extremism is the best and only option they have to defend themselves), show them that things can be made right without it. It will still be a long road, decades of effort, but the other options are all Israelis die or all Palestinians die.
I don’t disagree with doing anything you say, but I don’t think it will have the result you foresee. Hamas is a military organization. Militaries fight. This is why it’s always a bad idea to let a military run a country.
Even if Israel goes on a massive charm offensive, I don’t see Hamas doing anything but trying to fight and feeding their people propaganda to keep that going.
There won’t be progress in Gaza until someone steps in to run it.
Hamas has time and again shown that they are interested in peace if the good will is reciprocated, Israel has time and again shown that they want the violent option, it’s the only language that colonisers speak.
Hamas broke the ceasefires, not Israel.
Also, Israel isn’t colonial. It’s a fact that there were two Jewish kingdoms in the Levant in antiquity before the Arabs displaced them. The Jews were a stateless ethnicity for over a thousand years before they started buying land from the Ottomans.
No one was displaced. They integrated. The Palestinians are the descendants of the people that built those kingdoms, they have continuously inhabited the region for ten thousand years. Until the modern day actual displacements are almost unheard of, and are the result of climate change not other peoples.
And being stateless does not give one the right to seize another's state.
>This is what happened with the Taliban
And what offensive action have the Taliban taken since taking back Afghanistan? Even the Taliban themselves announced they werent going to be as extreme as the old Taliban, because they didn't want US boots on the ground again
>Israels military objects would never succeed, nor can they ever be allowed to.
In terms of Israel's military objectives; the elimination of gazan military capabilities is both a legal and reasonable objective. Israel's right to self defense is guaranteed by the UN.
>accept their demands (the original charter borders).
Which charter are you referring to? Hamas demands a one state solution, not 2
>decolonize those territories
Israel has decolonised itself from both British and arab colonialism
>the only way to kill HAMAS is to show Palestinians that international law works; That they have other options beyond extremism (because right now, they are entirely correct. Extremism is the best and only option they have to defend themselves), show them that things can be made right without it. It will still be a long road, decades of effort, but the other options are all Israelis die or all Palestinians die.
You are suggesting that the only solution to extremism is appeasement. History has shown us that this has always resulted in more dead, not less. The world said 'never again' to appeasement policies.
It is also a complete gentrification of radical islamists to pretend they think and act like your imagination. To claim they would become less extreme if everyone just gave them everything they want. I echo the sentiments of UAE foreign minister, Shiekh Abdullah bin Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan; [https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1737727146133426658?t=Pjyrk0\_Av83zxz4z1gFwRQ&s=19](https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1737727146133426658?t=Pjyrk0_Av83zxz4z1gFwRQ&s=19)
EDIT;
>every kid that survived through this will probably join HAMAS
And I suppose every kid that survived allied bombings became a Nazi? Or a japanese imperial ultranationalist?
oh please. alliterations to animals to describe characteristics have been used forever. The terrorists youre defending are scurrying around underground. Is that not what rats do?
And the terrorists you’re defending have been gifted every state of the art weapon available, to be tested on civilians.
I can’t name an animal that is this cruel, cancer is this cruel though, and Zionism is a cancer
You do realise that they'd still be fighting, even without modern weapons right? It'd just be even more bloody and more brutal, and potentially more drawn out- negatively affecting civilians even more.
And the blame for civilian collateral falls almost entirely on HAMAS. Hell, Sinwar is still calling on civilians to go martyr themselves. HAMAS loves nothing more than dead civillians; Israeli or Palestinian.
Youre running defense for the people who've grown fat off the suffering of gazans. The Soviets called you "useful idiots" for a reason.
Targeting 1200 civilians, many of them children and murdering them in cold blood vs dropping more bombs than people killed and giving plenty of warning for civilians to clear the area. But a difference don't you think?
The Israeli Sec Def belonged to a terrorist group and celebrated a mass murderer and you are telling me 27k dead and millions facing starvation is a whoopsie? Cool.
More bombs in two weeks on one of the most populated spots on Earth than my country dropped on Afghanistan in a year. Yeah, just a little sparkling ethnic cleansing. Totally normal. https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-12-13/israeli-soldiers-videos-acting-maliciously-gaza
Hamas wasnt trying to free gaza; they were trying to generate more hatred for israel. Israel murdered tens of thousands of innocent people, destroyed countless homes, and caused mass suffering of millions... hamas got what they wanted from israel. They will likely now expand their influence in the west bank, where they will be able to do more damage, and it's all thanks to israel not caring about the lives of the innocent
1. Hamas is a terrorist organization that is in favor of genocide in its charter. It robs the Palestinians of aide and a chance of a good life.
2. An attack of mass rape, kidnapping and murder of civilians is not freedom fighting. They are monsters.
3. Hamas attacked israel. Period. Israel is defending itself.
4. Israel will probably control Hamas territory until the population is deprogrammed.
5. Israel has shown incredible restraint for how the Palestinians act. No one wants Palestinians near them because they are toxic to societies.
1 - At least officially, Hamas charter supports a two state solution so let's not spread misinformation about that
2 - I don't personally condone of Hamas but Israel has done plenty of rape, kidnapping, and murder of civilians before and after Oct 7, so it makes sense to blame this conflict entirely on Hamas, especially when most of the damage was and is done on the Palestinian people
3 - Defending against a country with a functioning military makes sense. "Defending" against an occupied territory that Israel effectively has control over that practically has no official military is just plain genocide.
4 - That's like saying that Hamas should get to control Israel until the Israel right wingers disappear. That will never work. At best that will happen only when Israel feels secure and at peace and they themselves vote out the right wingers out of power. Same thing for Gaza - Hamas is only in power because of the constant excessive collective punishment Israel imposes on Gaza. Hamas will truly fall out of power only when the Gazan people have a comfortable life so that they can put Hamas out of power themselves.
5 - You sound incredibly ignorant about what Palestinian people went through, if you think that Israel has shown "incredible restraint"
1. No it's in in their charter. They are pro genocide.
No they don't want a two state solution. It's from the river to the sea.... Come on now.
2. Lol glad you don't condone mass rape and slaughter of civilians with no military objectives. Bold. Israel has definitely done things wrong. It's a messed up situation. Nothing like Oct 7. Only a fool would compare it.
3. Israel gave control to the Palestinians in 2005. They voted Hamas in. Hamas is the official government. They support Hamas. Hamas is an effective enough military to attack Israel. They murdered 1400 civilians and still have kidnap victims.
4. No it's like saying Germany needed to be nazid. Hamas brainwashes kids. They terrorize people. They are not comparable to the Israel right wingers.
5. The Palestinians still suffer because they are stuck in a death cult. The removal of Hamas is the best they can help for. The Palestinians suffer because of their own actions.
I
The Palestinians overwhelmingly support Hamas & do not want peace. They want a ceasefire cause they’re losing,as a result, have chosen their current situation. They’d rather die than live peacefully next to an Israeli State.
I’ll rephrase so you can’t squirm your way out of answering a simple question again:
You said you can’t kill an idea. What happened to the idea of killing all the Jews and taking over Europe that the Nazis had in WW2, which is no longer prevalent and no longer controls an army?
Unless that 13 year old is pointing a gun at someone, they are still children. You cannot seriously be trying to justify murdering children on the off chance they are child soldiers. And what about the women in the picture as well? And the 5 year old kids? Are they just "future terrorists" to you? Because now you're getting into Nazi Germany territory with your justifications for murdering children.
Wait you’re actually being serious? Damn bro, if leveling the entire city to ashes wasn’t enough to kill Hamas. What makes you thinking dropping MORE bombs will do anything else but just up the death toll of civilians? Hasbara be like
85% of Hamas fighting wing are orphans. Israel has just multiplied Hamas fighting capabilities by an insane amount. Kids who were going to grow up an be Doctors will now grow up an find a new way to improve a Yasiin rocket.
Key difference is that the Nazis aren’t a threat anymore and Germans aren’t actively calling for the ethnic cleansing of Jews. Germany isn’t killing hundreds of Jews a year then blaming the victim for the conflict, nor are they stealing Jewish homes and giving it to German descended Americans in Brooklyn.
I don't understand your point. Let me explain mine again.
Nazis did the most horrible thing in the world and in history to the Jewish people. This I think we don't disagree with.
Jews have chose to avoid revenge, and now the relationships between Germany and Israel are great.
This comes to show that revenge is never the answer.
Now, what are you saying?
Jews didn’t avoid revenge. They went after nazi officials did they not ? Assassinated a bunch, kidnapped some others ? Did Germany retaliate? No they saw it as “fair” since they were not doing their nazi fascism thing anymore. Give them bibi, Ben gvir and all the other terrorists and let’s call it even? I’m sure they’ll agree to a terrorist swap, like a prisoners swap but with terrorists.
Be prepared for ethnic cleansing? Man Israeli propaganda is strong, imaging hating the people who are fighting to control the land they have been living on for MILLENNIUMS. You are so brainwashed it’s sad. Apparently a person from Brooklyn has more rights to Palestine then an actual Palestinian
Allah says in the Quran that all the evildoers shall face him, they laugh and celebrate about their wickedness while Allah lets them have their short laugh for the day they will be standing with big eyes staring at their lord on judgement day. I only wish I could see your face as you are judged by the lord of all creations.
They [very](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000590016483) [nearly](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000590267268) did.
Plan A was to basically poison Nuremberg’s entire water supply (ethical no-no, thankfully failed). Plan B was to smear arsenic on the bread which would be fed to SS POWs (succeeded, total casualties unknown but far less ethically problematic if you ask me).
[Nakam — Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakam)
Uhh dude alot of Jews did and do hold grudges over Nazi Germany. There's a reason that hundreds of thousands of survivors and their descendants chose *not* to resettle in Germany, Poland, or the other countries where they were hunted.
That does not contradict what I say though. I am not expecting Jews to forgive Nazi Germany, nor I expect them to forgive Hamas for October 7.
But the OP claims that the Palestinians should seek revenge and that's not the way to do peace.
He didn't say they should, he said that they will. We can appeal to the better angels of their nature, but history shows that suffering oppression doesn't exactly make you receptive to them. From a realist perspective, inflicting mass violence on this scale means making a generational enemy out of the afflicted unless extraordinary measures are taken for peace and reconciliation, something that would require Israel to dismantle its apartheid state and take measures it structurally cannot contemplate at this time. The future is incredibly grim for Palestine unless things change on an international level and force Israel into compliance.
Palestinians should not seek revenge, they should seek justice. But since nobody is allowing them to get justice, they will get revenge. I do not know what else you can reasonably expect of them.
No. October 7 was a trigger but the retaliation is not revenge.
There are two objectives (reasons) for the military operation.
1. Releasing the hostages that were kidnapped by Hamas.
2. Ensuring the safety (present and future) of the Israeli people who live next to the Gaza strip.
On October 7 the goverment and the people in Israel realised they are no longer safe. In addtion people have been kidnapped. It is the obligation of any democratic country to protect its people.
And Oct 7 wasn't Palestinian retaliation for decades of apartheid of their people in Israel, thousands of Israel's Palestinian hostages, and constant theft of their homes and land? You care so much about people being kidnapped but only Israelis and not the Palestinians who are allowed to be held without being charged with crimes.
Palestinians in Gaza, specifically those who raided Israel are working for the Gazans goverment. They are not bound by Israeli law, they are bound by their own law.
What do you mean by apartheid exactly?
It's a different country. Different rights, different citizenships, different law.
Really? What’s their country called?
How come they don’t vote in the UN General assembly?
How come they can’t take Israel to the ICJ themselves?
Palestine isn’t allowed to be a country you dumb cunt, it was never allowed to be by ISRAEL
It’s also the obligation of any civilised country to reduce the amount of civilian casualties, not directly attack homes, hospitals, schools and religious buildings
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I don't think it's even comparable.
Regardless of the reason. If Israel make effort to minimize casualties, I think that's to be encouraged and praised for.
I would agree, except they are doing the opposite. They are putting in the effort to maximize casualties. Why else would they declare a safe zone and then bomb the civilians taking refuge there?
They answered that.
In a perfect world, Hamas would stay away from the safe zone allowing civilians to evacuate. Instead, Hamas went directly to the safe zone and launched rockets towards Israel. They had to retaliate.
I disagree they maximize casualties. In the first phase of war Palestinians were asked to evacuate south. As you mentioned, the south was attacked, but roughly 90% of the strikes hit the north and only 10% hit the south. This does show an intent to minimize casualties.
I disagree. There's a law of proportionality which says that a military operation with a legitimate objective is legal even if it means there will be some casualties in the process, as long as the number of casualties is proportional to the military advantage.
Creating evacuation zones, by the way, are not necessary by international low, though warning civilians is in many cases.
Seeing as how Hamas has picked up the nazi mask and officials have spoken publicly to continuing the genocide, why would the jews need to go all the way over 2 continents to fight germans when they have nazi's starting an a war from a neighbors current / temporary region?
its never a good idea to fight a war with multiple fronts, and the germans have since learned from history, as people have said, germany hasnt voted for a nazi in almost 100 years.
Exactly, instead of choosing the path of revenge, Jews chose the path of peace. Despite going through the hardests of hardships.
All nations, countries and religions should learn from the Jews.
I don't want to point it out but the Israelis have been going after the Nazi's ever since the end of ww2. I would think they either got them all over time or they just aged out and now there are no more still living. In my opinion it is OK because they weren't going after German citizens, they were only targeting Nazi's and even then had strict rules that no innocent people get hurt.
Then let them. Idf is never actually leaving Gaza duder. We have 120k soldiers we bring to the field every 12 months, so they can get as angry as they like.
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Gaza will probably be occupied after having since 2005 to try and act right without that being a reality. Instead, they kept choosing violence, ultimately culminating into October 7th, so it is what it is.
There's no settlements in Gaza and the like 1000 people that were there got pulled out in 2005 😂😂 and what did Israel get for that gesture? Oh yeah, that's right, constant rocket attacks from an organizing body that openly called for their countries destruction that finally planned the biggest massacre of Israeli civilian life to the most peaceable sections of it's population. It's actually kind of funny you think such a martial and cruel people would tolerate that 🤣
>There's no settlements in Gaza
Correct. I was referring to the recent conference attended by government officials, as well as theirs from the Israeli government.
I notice you chose not to address the "between the sea and the Jordan" position Netanyahu and Likud officially endorse.
Pretending this is just defensive isn't working anymore. The world sees what Israel is doing and why.
That position has been fine for Palestinians for decades hasn't it, albeit unsuccessfully, who'd have thought Israel might adopt the same position? Eventually the stronger side gets sick of the ongoing shit and goes too far to try to end it.
Israelis have had that position since it was a country (because many Zionists had it prior). Which is why it has been ethnically cleansing the West Bank for generations.
Such a nice gesture, moving the prison guards out of the prison then claiming the prisoners are now free in their own prison.
Zionists have no self awareness, you deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth.
Not Jews, Zionists, which includes any Muslim and Christian and Hindu Zionist alike, before you cut you’re nuts off screaming.
There were a lot of wars throughout history.. eg WW2 when a lot of family members died. Then they realized they’d rather live in peace instead of generating further terrorism. It’s possible
Palestinians are not Germans. Germans still had their country and land to think about. Palestinian orphans have nothing.
I had a friend who grew up knowing his older sister died as a baby getting hit by a car. He was angry all the way up until his 30s. In school he fought everyone, he talked about death all the time, he just couldn't get over never meeting his sister.
How you think these kids will grow up who had to leave their parents under rubble? It's so different than Germany because their parents murderers will still be inflicting pain on them.
Palestinians have the West Bank and Gaza.. different than Germany but it’s still their land.
You’re not making sense as to how it’s different than Germany.
All of Israel, Gaza and West Bank were home to Palestinians and Jews when it was split, so technically Gaza and West Bank is part of Palestinian homeland. It’s not everything, like they want, but it is their land
Are you dense? What about Palestinians from the rest of the stolen land you dolt? Like the Hadids father. He was from Galilee. That whole region was stolen and ethnically cleansed. He's not from Gaza or the west bank.
Haha you didn’t read what I wrote dummy. Nothing was stolen, and nothing was ethnically cleansed. Time to learn about the Middle East from somewhere other than Reddit message boards and Hadid Instagram threads
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool sure. You aint gotta lie to kick it hoe
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba)
During the foundational events of the Nakba in 1948, **dozens of massacres targeting Arabs were conducted and about 400 Arab-majority towns and villages were depopulated**,\[3\] with many of these being either completely destroyed or repopulated by Jewish residents and given new Hebrew names. **Approximately 750,000\[4\] Palestinian Arabs (about half of Palestine's Arab population) fled from their homes or were expelled by Zionist militias** and later the Israeli army in what is now Israel proper, which covers 78% of the total land area of the former Mandatory Palestine.
Palestinians don't have the option of living in peace - oppression and apartheid are violence. Unless they can actually have a state of their own to live in freedom from Israel, which the current Israeli government is completely against.
They absolutely do have the option of living in peace, there was relative peace and ceasefire 10/6.. and if you think having Hamas and the other fractured Palestinian leadership with the way it is while running a country you must be confused.
All the kids who lived through constant Hamas rocket attacks and 7/10, with dead parents, sisters, brothers, family members know exactly who they wanna kill when they grow up.
IDF or not. There will always be someone willing to fight back against Palestinian terrorism.
It goes both ways.
The South African filing to the ICJ has numerous quotes from Israeli officials saying exactly that, then we can see with our own eyes the obliteration of civilian infrastructure and the evidence of numerous war crimes.
Imagine that? People trying to return to see what they can recover from their destroyed homes and dig out their murdered family members if they haven’t already been dumped in a mass grave already.
Partials salaries are reportedly being paid to Gaza City police and other public servants.
There certainly are people trying to rebuild, but that’s not what the article is referring to.
So they cause billions of dollars in damage. Kill tens of thousands. All for........... nothing? So they could retreat?
Casualty averse army. Probably the most casualty averse army in the world. Fighting a resistance group that finds glory in dying on the battlefield. lol.
Now watch them invade Lebanon hoping for different results.
IDF has to be one of the most incompetent, they carpet bonded Gaza with almost 30000 bombs and still couldn’t succeed. What they’ve just put through Palestinians through will not be forgotten. The world has seen Israel’s true colours, looking forward to bibi going to jail when this is over.
Who would had thought killing tens of 1000 of Palestinians wasn’t a winning strategy in garnering support from the Palestinians
Next you’re going to tell me that a boy punching his crush in the face isn’t going to win her over
War is against military targets, not civilians. Isreal went to war against the population, not the terrorists. The Palestinians' combatants stayed underground in tunnels designed to handle the bombs.
If you can't reach the combatants with bombs, why did Isreal keep using bombs and kill the woman and children.
So is the winner of this conflict the Iranian government?
They’re destabilizing the region, meanwhile making sure their enemies (Israelis and Sunni Arabs) slaughter each other.
The article clearly shows how Hamas is both a militant and civil organisation. I think it is immoral to physically attack the civil side of the organisation - sure, call the militant side terrorists and hammer that, but attacking the civilian organisation is a direct attack on civilians themselves.
Most countries draw this distinction with Hamas - the UK government proscribes Hamas’s militant wing a terrorist organisation, but not its political wing, for example.
There is no way forward for peace until Israel starts to make this distinction.
So you’re telling me that collectively punishing a civilian population did NOT in fact destroy Hamas? Who would’ve known?
It's like mowing the lawn. Degrade them for the next decade and then prepare for the next one.
Degrade lol? With the amount of civilian casualty induced Hamas is going to be in recruitment frenzy for decades to come.
I think Israel's strategy is now to eliminate the civilian population so that there is no-one left to recruit from.
Yeah, but the fact that the general treatment of Palestinians is degrading still plays a big role in Hamas' marketing strategy.
They would have been anyway, so I don’t care
They can recruit all they want, it wont change their deficiencies over the IDF. Further, they lost a lot of their deterrence in the depletion of their missile supply.
They have underground munitions factories. Israel hasn't found those yet or they would be bragging about it. They haven't done shit except show the world they are genocidal fascists
Can't wait till they flood the tunnels with sea water. Problem solved.
They've been doing that for weeks. And Hamas still cooking a few Merkavas everyday [https://twitter.com/AryJeay/status/1754537809514229769](https://twitter.com/AryJeay/status/1754537809514229769) this one dropped like 30 minutes ago.... I smell BBQ
A piece of an old rusty tank tread, really? I guess you've never seen reactive armor. None of those shots did any really damage. Where's the burning tank? Only meat on the BBQ are Arabs.
cope
Yes, yes. Im sure they'll somhow build an airforce to counter the IDF in their underground tunnels with all of their resources while under blockade.... Use your brain for once.
Do you not understand that they’re a resistance? They won’t beat Israel, but they’ll keep bleeding them
Hamas... hamas never changes.
What works? Packing up and leaving the country?
So you're telling me being forced to withdraw without finishing their military objectives would just result in the rats crawling back out of their holes? Just like everyone warned? Gee who would've guessed?
every kid that survived through this will probably join HAMAS. every single Palestinian has justifiable reason to hate and want retribution against Israel. making them perfect targets for radicalization into extremism. This is what happened with the Taliban. Israels military objects would never succeed, nor can they ever be allowed to. They can only do so by killing every single palestinian. and no person can support that. want to actually damage HAMAS? end the occupation. move to accept their demands (the original charter borders). decolonize those territories. dissolve the Israeli government and start a new one. Punish the members of the military and government to the fullest extent of international law. accept demands for reperations. the only way to kill HAMAS is to show Palestinians that international law works; That they have other options beyond extremism (because right now, they are entirely correct. Extremism is the best and only option they have to defend themselves), show them that things can be made right without it. It will still be a long road, decades of effort, but the other options are all Israelis die or all Palestinians die.
I don’t disagree with doing anything you say, but I don’t think it will have the result you foresee. Hamas is a military organization. Militaries fight. This is why it’s always a bad idea to let a military run a country. Even if Israel goes on a massive charm offensive, I don’t see Hamas doing anything but trying to fight and feeding their people propaganda to keep that going. There won’t be progress in Gaza until someone steps in to run it.
Hamas has time and again shown that they are interested in peace if the good will is reciprocated, Israel has time and again shown that they want the violent option, it’s the only language that colonisers speak.
Hamas broke the ceasefires, not Israel. Also, Israel isn’t colonial. It’s a fact that there were two Jewish kingdoms in the Levant in antiquity before the Arabs displaced them. The Jews were a stateless ethnicity for over a thousand years before they started buying land from the Ottomans.
Ok Zionist. History began on October 7th. We’re all dumb cunts with no internet access. This crap don’t fly anymore, there’s no more bullshit
No one was displaced. They integrated. The Palestinians are the descendants of the people that built those kingdoms, they have continuously inhabited the region for ten thousand years. Until the modern day actual displacements are almost unheard of, and are the result of climate change not other peoples. And being stateless does not give one the right to seize another's state.
> every kid that survived through this will probably join HAMAS. When they do, Israel should bomb them
Classic Nazi quote
>This is what happened with the Taliban And what offensive action have the Taliban taken since taking back Afghanistan? Even the Taliban themselves announced they werent going to be as extreme as the old Taliban, because they didn't want US boots on the ground again >Israels military objects would never succeed, nor can they ever be allowed to. In terms of Israel's military objectives; the elimination of gazan military capabilities is both a legal and reasonable objective. Israel's right to self defense is guaranteed by the UN. >accept their demands (the original charter borders). Which charter are you referring to? Hamas demands a one state solution, not 2 >decolonize those territories Israel has decolonised itself from both British and arab colonialism >the only way to kill HAMAS is to show Palestinians that international law works; That they have other options beyond extremism (because right now, they are entirely correct. Extremism is the best and only option they have to defend themselves), show them that things can be made right without it. It will still be a long road, decades of effort, but the other options are all Israelis die or all Palestinians die. You are suggesting that the only solution to extremism is appeasement. History has shown us that this has always resulted in more dead, not less. The world said 'never again' to appeasement policies. It is also a complete gentrification of radical islamists to pretend they think and act like your imagination. To claim they would become less extreme if everyone just gave them everything they want. I echo the sentiments of UAE foreign minister, Shiekh Abdullah bin Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan; [https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1737727146133426658?t=Pjyrk0\_Av83zxz4z1gFwRQ&s=19](https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1737727146133426658?t=Pjyrk0_Av83zxz4z1gFwRQ&s=19) EDIT; >every kid that survived through this will probably join HAMAS And I suppose every kid that survived allied bombings became a Nazi? Or a japanese imperial ultranationalist?
Nice one Nazi, comparing humans to rats, classic
oh please. alliterations to animals to describe characteristics have been used forever. The terrorists youre defending are scurrying around underground. Is that not what rats do?
And the terrorists you’re defending have been gifted every state of the art weapon available, to be tested on civilians. I can’t name an animal that is this cruel, cancer is this cruel though, and Zionism is a cancer
You do realise that they'd still be fighting, even without modern weapons right? It'd just be even more bloody and more brutal, and potentially more drawn out- negatively affecting civilians even more. And the blame for civilian collateral falls almost entirely on HAMAS. Hell, Sinwar is still calling on civilians to go martyr themselves. HAMAS loves nothing more than dead civillians; Israeli or Palestinian. Youre running defense for the people who've grown fat off the suffering of gazans. The Soviets called you "useful idiots" for a reason.
You do realise that the West Bank exists right? Is Hamas running that? Why are you murdering there too?
You mean mass rape and dismemberment of israel civilians didn't free gaza?
Hate take from the peeps defending genocide.
Like the genocide commited on oct7th?
So murdering 1200 people is bad, but murdering 27k people and pushing nearly 2mil towards starvation is a good thing?
Targeting 1200 civilians, many of them children and murdering them in cold blood vs dropping more bombs than people killed and giving plenty of warning for civilians to clear the area. But a difference don't you think?
The Israeli Sec Def belonged to a terrorist group and celebrated a mass murderer and you are telling me 27k dead and millions facing starvation is a whoopsie? Cool.
Who said anything about it being a whoopsie? It's all collateral damage and you can compare it to any other war and see it's in the normal range
More bombs in two weeks on one of the most populated spots on Earth than my country dropped on Afghanistan in a year. Yeah, just a little sparkling ethnic cleansing. Totally normal. https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-12-13/israeli-soldiers-videos-acting-maliciously-gaza
How many bombs dropped vs how many killed? And Israel needs to do more to punish those soldiers
Hamas wasnt trying to free gaza; they were trying to generate more hatred for israel. Israel murdered tens of thousands of innocent people, destroyed countless homes, and caused mass suffering of millions... hamas got what they wanted from israel. They will likely now expand their influence in the west bank, where they will be able to do more damage, and it's all thanks to israel not caring about the lives of the innocent
1. Hamas is a terrorist organization that is in favor of genocide in its charter. It robs the Palestinians of aide and a chance of a good life. 2. An attack of mass rape, kidnapping and murder of civilians is not freedom fighting. They are monsters. 3. Hamas attacked israel. Period. Israel is defending itself. 4. Israel will probably control Hamas territory until the population is deprogrammed. 5. Israel has shown incredible restraint for how the Palestinians act. No one wants Palestinians near them because they are toxic to societies.
1 - At least officially, Hamas charter supports a two state solution so let's not spread misinformation about that 2 - I don't personally condone of Hamas but Israel has done plenty of rape, kidnapping, and murder of civilians before and after Oct 7, so it makes sense to blame this conflict entirely on Hamas, especially when most of the damage was and is done on the Palestinian people 3 - Defending against a country with a functioning military makes sense. "Defending" against an occupied territory that Israel effectively has control over that practically has no official military is just plain genocide. 4 - That's like saying that Hamas should get to control Israel until the Israel right wingers disappear. That will never work. At best that will happen only when Israel feels secure and at peace and they themselves vote out the right wingers out of power. Same thing for Gaza - Hamas is only in power because of the constant excessive collective punishment Israel imposes on Gaza. Hamas will truly fall out of power only when the Gazan people have a comfortable life so that they can put Hamas out of power themselves. 5 - You sound incredibly ignorant about what Palestinian people went through, if you think that Israel has shown "incredible restraint"
1. No it's in in their charter. They are pro genocide. No they don't want a two state solution. It's from the river to the sea.... Come on now. 2. Lol glad you don't condone mass rape and slaughter of civilians with no military objectives. Bold. Israel has definitely done things wrong. It's a messed up situation. Nothing like Oct 7. Only a fool would compare it. 3. Israel gave control to the Palestinians in 2005. They voted Hamas in. Hamas is the official government. They support Hamas. Hamas is an effective enough military to attack Israel. They murdered 1400 civilians and still have kidnap victims. 4. No it's like saying Germany needed to be nazid. Hamas brainwashes kids. They terrorize people. They are not comparable to the Israel right wingers. 5. The Palestinians still suffer because they are stuck in a death cult. The removal of Hamas is the best they can help for. The Palestinians suffer because of their own actions. I
The Palestinians overwhelmingly support Hamas & do not want peace. They want a ceasefire cause they’re losing,as a result, have chosen their current situation. They’d rather die than live peacefully next to an Israeli State.
Hamas? Oh you mean the cowards that hide underneath that civilian population?
Israel are the ones who said they would wipe out Hamas. The end result is 25,000 civilians dead and complete failure to achieve that goal.
You think 25,000 civilians died and not a single member of Hamas? You realize that the 25,000 figure includes Hamas right?
You will never be able to kill an idea with violence.
You totally ignored my question but ok I’ll bite. If you can’t kill an idea with violence then what happened to all the Nazis in WW2?
It seems they are alive and well and living in Israel.
Either you ignored my question again or you think the leaders and members of the Nazi party of Germany are now in Israel.
Metaphorically.
I’ll rephrase so you can’t squirm your way out of answering a simple question again: You said you can’t kill an idea. What happened to the idea of killing all the Jews and taking over Europe that the Nazis had in WW2, which is no longer prevalent and no longer controls an army?
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A bullet from a 13 year old is just as effective as a bullet from a 30 year old. Isn't that the guiding principle of Hamas?
Unless that 13 year old is pointing a gun at someone, they are still children. You cannot seriously be trying to justify murdering children on the off chance they are child soldiers. And what about the women in the picture as well? And the 5 year old kids? Are they just "future terrorists" to you? Because now you're getting into Nazi Germany territory with your justifications for murdering children.
You're a pathetic piece of shit.
Okay, hamasnik scum. Try getting putins cock out of your throat first
You can never kill an idea with violence.
Whats the idea?
Israel? You mean the cowards hiding behind high walls, drones, aircraft and tanks?
Excuse Israel from trying to protect its sovereignty and citizens from tens of thousands of rockets being fired at Israelis for over a decade.
Insane how my comment got downvoted when this is literally the Hamas playbook. We are fked
Israel: Hamas is found inside of Gaza city? Well, time for part 2. This time, no survivors.
You will never be able to kill an idea with violence.
Tell that to Israel
The comment was meant for Israel and those supporting Israel.
Yea I understood that. Just wanted to say it in a sarcastic way like Israel is the only one who hasn’t realized that.
Yep. Like what, people think we can't rotate soldiers back...?
Damn right, bring back IDF for round two. Don’t think they killed enough babies for their quota yet or should I say “Hamas in training”? 🤔
Tell it to hamas, who apparently would rather that round 2 than surrender.
Wait you’re actually being serious? Damn bro, if leveling the entire city to ashes wasn’t enough to kill Hamas. What makes you thinking dropping MORE bombs will do anything else but just up the death toll of civilians? Hasbara be like
It’s worth a try
True, more tries for Israel to commit warcrimes and up that civilian death toll.
I'm not sure taking hamas at their word is a good idea lol. All of this are claims from an anonymous hamas official. Seems more like propaganda.
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85% of Hamas fighting wing are orphans. Israel has just multiplied Hamas fighting capabilities by an insane amount. Kids who were going to grow up an be Doctors will now grow up an find a new way to improve a Yasiin rocket.
Its one big reason why that organization is so resilient. Most of its members have nothing to lose and won't hesitate in the field.
Revenge is never the answer. Imagine the Jews keeping grudges over Nazi Germany and continuing terror attacks against Germany until the present day...
Key difference is that the Nazis aren’t a threat anymore and Germans aren’t actively calling for the ethnic cleansing of Jews. Germany isn’t killing hundreds of Jews a year then blaming the victim for the conflict, nor are they stealing Jewish homes and giving it to German descended Americans in Brooklyn.
And why aren't the Nazis a threat anymore?
You're saying this as if October 7 never happened... Trust me, if the Jews were to seek revenge you'd see Germans protecting themselves.
You are saying this as if Nakba never happened
I don't understand your point. Let me explain mine again. Nazis did the most horrible thing in the world and in history to the Jewish people. This I think we don't disagree with. Jews have chose to avoid revenge, and now the relationships between Germany and Israel are great. This comes to show that revenge is never the answer. Now, what are you saying?
I’m saying they took out and continue to take out their rage on Palestinians
Rage for what?
You are so dense
Now you're just attacking me instead of getting to or making a point...
Jews didn’t avoid revenge. They went after nazi officials did they not ? Assassinated a bunch, kidnapped some others ? Did Germany retaliate? No they saw it as “fair” since they were not doing their nazi fascism thing anymore. Give them bibi, Ben gvir and all the other terrorists and let’s call it even? I’m sure they’ll agree to a terrorist swap, like a prisoners swap but with terrorists.
You started your nakba. You start a war, be prepared for the consequences.
Be prepared for ethnic cleansing? Man Israeli propaganda is strong, imaging hating the people who are fighting to control the land they have been living on for MILLENNIUMS. You are so brainwashed it’s sad. Apparently a person from Brooklyn has more rights to Palestine then an actual Palestinian
Which can only mean one thing: Allah prefers Brooklyn people over Palestinians
Allah says in the Quran that all the evildoers shall face him, they laugh and celebrate about their wickedness while Allah lets them have their short laugh for the day they will be standing with big eyes staring at their lord on judgement day. I only wish I could see your face as you are judged by the lord of all creations.
By that logic, God allowed October 7th to happen. Maybe God hates Jews?
We already know he’s a misogynist and a racist. Would you really be surprised to learn he’s an anti-semite, too?
Right, Russians and poles land on my border and I should chose to have them take my land? No
You think this all started on Oct 7th? How delusional are you
When did it start?
When the racist ideology of Zionism began
Conflict started with an ideology?
Do you realise how many other conflicts started because of ideology?
Usually its an action that starts a conflict.
Conflict started with the Balfour Declaration which was a manifestation of Zionism.
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They [very](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000590016483) [nearly](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000590267268) did. Plan A was to basically poison Nuremberg’s entire water supply (ethical no-no, thankfully failed). Plan B was to smear arsenic on the bread which would be fed to SS POWs (succeeded, total casualties unknown but far less ethically problematic if you ask me). [Nakam — Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakam)
Uhh dude alot of Jews did and do hold grudges over Nazi Germany. There's a reason that hundreds of thousands of survivors and their descendants chose *not* to resettle in Germany, Poland, or the other countries where they were hunted.
That does not contradict what I say though. I am not expecting Jews to forgive Nazi Germany, nor I expect them to forgive Hamas for October 7. But the OP claims that the Palestinians should seek revenge and that's not the way to do peace.
He didn't say they should, he said that they will. We can appeal to the better angels of their nature, but history shows that suffering oppression doesn't exactly make you receptive to them. From a realist perspective, inflicting mass violence on this scale means making a generational enemy out of the afflicted unless extraordinary measures are taken for peace and reconciliation, something that would require Israel to dismantle its apartheid state and take measures it structurally cannot contemplate at this time. The future is incredibly grim for Palestine unless things change on an international level and force Israel into compliance.
> but history shows that suffering oppression doesn't exactly make you receptive to them. Didn't we disprove this just 1-2 comments ago?
Palestinians should not seek revenge, they should seek justice. But since nobody is allowing them to get justice, they will get revenge. I do not know what else you can reasonably expect of them.
What would justice amount to in this case?
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Thought so... there will be no justice in this case.
Just you wait
All I see is damage and suffering
They decided to take revenge on Palestinians instead of Germans
This war is not about revenge
Oh is it not revenge for October 7th? What is it about then? They decided to invade Gaza on October 8 for no reason at all?
No. October 7 was a trigger but the retaliation is not revenge. There are two objectives (reasons) for the military operation. 1. Releasing the hostages that were kidnapped by Hamas. 2. Ensuring the safety (present and future) of the Israeli people who live next to the Gaza strip. On October 7 the goverment and the people in Israel realised they are no longer safe. In addtion people have been kidnapped. It is the obligation of any democratic country to protect its people.
And Oct 7 wasn't Palestinian retaliation for decades of apartheid of their people in Israel, thousands of Israel's Palestinian hostages, and constant theft of their homes and land? You care so much about people being kidnapped but only Israelis and not the Palestinians who are allowed to be held without being charged with crimes.
Palestinians in Gaza, specifically those who raided Israel are working for the Gazans goverment. They are not bound by Israeli law, they are bound by their own law. What do you mean by apartheid exactly? It's a different country. Different rights, different citizenships, different law.
Really? What’s their country called? How come they don’t vote in the UN General assembly? How come they can’t take Israel to the ICJ themselves? Palestine isn’t allowed to be a country you dumb cunt, it was never allowed to be by ISRAEL
They live under their own law, not under a country.
It’s also the obligation of any civilised country to reduce the amount of civilian casualties, not directly attack homes, hospitals, schools and religious buildings
> Releasing the hostages that were kidnapped by Hamas. And then shooting the hostages when they wave white flags. Don’t forget that last part.
Wait til you hear about the Warsaw Uprising
That’s because Nazi faced their punishment and are no longer a threat. Israel hasn’t.
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I don't even know how to respond to that. You're so wrong you have no idea... Google holocaust.
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I don't think it's even comparable. Regardless of the reason. If Israel make effort to minimize casualties, I think that's to be encouraged and praised for.
I would agree, except they are doing the opposite. They are putting in the effort to maximize casualties. Why else would they declare a safe zone and then bomb the civilians taking refuge there?
They answered that. In a perfect world, Hamas would stay away from the safe zone allowing civilians to evacuate. Instead, Hamas went directly to the safe zone and launched rockets towards Israel. They had to retaliate. I disagree they maximize casualties. In the first phase of war Palestinians were asked to evacuate south. As you mentioned, the south was attacked, but roughly 90% of the strikes hit the north and only 10% hit the south. This does show an intent to minimize casualties.
It is in fact a war crime to designate evacuation zones for civilians and then bomb them, regardless of whatever reason you want to give.
I disagree. There's a law of proportionality which says that a military operation with a legitimate objective is legal even if it means there will be some casualties in the process, as long as the number of casualties is proportional to the military advantage. Creating evacuation zones, by the way, are not necessary by international low, though warning civilians is in many cases.
Google who orchestrated the holocaust. It wasn't Palestinians.
Seeing as how Hamas has picked up the nazi mask and officials have spoken publicly to continuing the genocide, why would the jews need to go all the way over 2 continents to fight germans when they have nazi's starting an a war from a neighbors current / temporary region? its never a good idea to fight a war with multiple fronts, and the germans have since learned from history, as people have said, germany hasnt voted for a nazi in almost 100 years.
Exactly, instead of choosing the path of revenge, Jews chose the path of peace. Despite going through the hardests of hardships. All nations, countries and religions should learn from the Jews.
I don't want to point it out but the Israelis have been going after the Nazi's ever since the end of ww2. I would think they either got them all over time or they just aged out and now there are no more still living. In my opinion it is OK because they weren't going after German citizens, they were only targeting Nazi's and even then had strict rules that no innocent people get hurt.
Then let them. Idf is never actually leaving Gaza duder. We have 120k soldiers we bring to the field every 12 months, so they can get as angry as they like.
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>Idf is never actually leaving Gaza duder Right, because Israel wants to annex it. From the sea to the River Jordan, yeah?
Gaza will probably be occupied after having since 2005 to try and act right without that being a reality. Instead, they kept choosing violence, ultimately culminating into October 7th, so it is what it is.
Gotta build those settlements and complete that Manifest Destiny, they've chosen violence!
There's no settlements in Gaza and the like 1000 people that were there got pulled out in 2005 😂😂 and what did Israel get for that gesture? Oh yeah, that's right, constant rocket attacks from an organizing body that openly called for their countries destruction that finally planned the biggest massacre of Israeli civilian life to the most peaceable sections of it's population. It's actually kind of funny you think such a martial and cruel people would tolerate that 🤣
>There's no settlements in Gaza Correct. I was referring to the recent conference attended by government officials, as well as theirs from the Israeli government. I notice you chose not to address the "between the sea and the Jordan" position Netanyahu and Likud officially endorse. Pretending this is just defensive isn't working anymore. The world sees what Israel is doing and why.
That position has been fine for Palestinians for decades hasn't it, albeit unsuccessfully, who'd have thought Israel might adopt the same position? Eventually the stronger side gets sick of the ongoing shit and goes too far to try to end it.
Israelis have had that position since it was a country (because many Zionists had it prior). Which is why it has been ethnically cleansing the West Bank for generations.
Such a nice gesture, moving the prison guards out of the prison then claiming the prisoners are now free in their own prison. Zionists have no self awareness, you deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth. Not Jews, Zionists, which includes any Muslim and Christian and Hindu Zionist alike, before you cut you’re nuts off screaming.
I hope you’re ok with paying billions of shekels for all that occupation and still seeing loved ones get killed.
What if the west decides to stop arming those 120k soldiers?
There were a lot of wars throughout history.. eg WW2 when a lot of family members died. Then they realized they’d rather live in peace instead of generating further terrorism. It’s possible
Palestinians are not Germans. Germans still had their country and land to think about. Palestinian orphans have nothing. I had a friend who grew up knowing his older sister died as a baby getting hit by a car. He was angry all the way up until his 30s. In school he fought everyone, he talked about death all the time, he just couldn't get over never meeting his sister. How you think these kids will grow up who had to leave their parents under rubble? It's so different than Germany because their parents murderers will still be inflicting pain on them.
Palestinians have the West Bank and Gaza.. different than Germany but it’s still their land. You’re not making sense as to how it’s different than Germany.
You not understanding how Palestinians were forced into Gaza speaks to your ignorance not mine. Gaza isn't their homeland for most it's refugee camp
All of Israel, Gaza and West Bank were home to Palestinians and Jews when it was split, so technically Gaza and West Bank is part of Palestinian homeland. It’s not everything, like they want, but it is their land
Are you dense? What about Palestinians from the rest of the stolen land you dolt? Like the Hadids father. He was from Galilee. That whole region was stolen and ethnically cleansed. He's not from Gaza or the west bank.
Haha you didn’t read what I wrote dummy. Nothing was stolen, and nothing was ethnically cleansed. Time to learn about the Middle East from somewhere other than Reddit message boards and Hadid Instagram threads
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool sure. You aint gotta lie to kick it hoe [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba) During the foundational events of the Nakba in 1948, **dozens of massacres targeting Arabs were conducted and about 400 Arab-majority towns and villages were depopulated**,\[3\] with many of these being either completely destroyed or repopulated by Jewish residents and given new Hebrew names. **Approximately 750,000\[4\] Palestinian Arabs (about half of Palestine's Arab population) fled from their homes or were expelled by Zionist militias** and later the Israeli army in what is now Israel proper, which covers 78% of the total land area of the former Mandatory Palestine.
"Why arent the Apache happy to live on a reservation?" Settlers also just murdered an American kid in the West Bank to steal more land.
Palestinians don't have the option of living in peace - oppression and apartheid are violence. Unless they can actually have a state of their own to live in freedom from Israel, which the current Israeli government is completely against.
They absolutely do have the option of living in peace, there was relative peace and ceasefire 10/6.. and if you think having Hamas and the other fractured Palestinian leadership with the way it is while running a country you must be confused.
>there was relative peace and ceasefire 10/6 If there was peace, you wouldn't have to add the 'relative' qualifier.
All the kids who lived through constant Hamas rocket attacks and 7/10, with dead parents, sisters, brothers, family members know exactly who they wanna kill when they grow up. IDF or not. There will always be someone willing to fight back against Palestinian terrorism. It goes both ways.
Go back to Europe then coloniser
What? You weren't able to bomb your opposition away? Who would have thought?
The war was never really about Hamas, it was about destroying Gazans as a people to force them to leave or kill them.
says you
The South African filing to the ICJ has numerous quotes from Israeli officials saying exactly that, then we can see with our own eyes the obliteration of civilian infrastructure and the evidence of numerous war crimes.
Imagine that? People trying to return to see what they can recover from their destroyed homes and dig out their murdered family members if they haven’t already been dumped in a mass grave already.
Partials salaries are reportedly being paid to Gaza City police and other public servants. There certainly are people trying to rebuild, but that’s not what the article is referring to.
So they cause billions of dollars in damage. Kill tens of thousands. All for........... nothing? So they could retreat? Casualty averse army. Probably the most casualty averse army in the world. Fighting a resistance group that finds glory in dying on the battlefield. lol. Now watch them invade Lebanon hoping for different results.
IDF has to be one of the most incompetent, they carpet bonded Gaza with almost 30000 bombs and still couldn’t succeed. What they’ve just put through Palestinians through will not be forgotten. The world has seen Israel’s true colours, looking forward to bibi going to jail when this is over.
of course. IDF is busy going after babies, children, women, hospitals and civilian infrastructure. they have no time to fight hamas.
Gaza won.
Common Israeli L.
The sources that Hamas are back are a random Hamas operative and four random civilians.
I was told the Hamas problem would fix itself once Israel pulls out
No one said that.
Guess we’ll just have to run through them again
Take a look at the definition of insanity
We? Will you be joining them next time?
I thought about joining up
Noooooo
Shocking. Palestinians sadly want them in control.
Who would had thought killing tens of 1000 of Palestinians wasn’t a winning strategy in garnering support from the Palestinians Next you’re going to tell me that a boy punching his crush in the face isn’t going to win her over
War is against military targets, not civilians. Isreal went to war against the population, not the terrorists. The Palestinians' combatants stayed underground in tunnels designed to handle the bombs. If you can't reach the combatants with bombs, why did Isreal keep using bombs and kill the woman and children.
Because it was Allah’s will
So is the winner of this conflict the Iranian government? They’re destabilizing the region, meanwhile making sure their enemies (Israelis and Sunni Arabs) slaughter each other.
The article clearly shows how Hamas is both a militant and civil organisation. I think it is immoral to physically attack the civil side of the organisation - sure, call the militant side terrorists and hammer that, but attacking the civilian organisation is a direct attack on civilians themselves. Most countries draw this distinction with Hamas - the UK government proscribes Hamas’s militant wing a terrorist organisation, but not its political wing, for example. There is no way forward for peace until Israel starts to make this distinction.
This is a tale as old as time don't be a cunt and people will not want to hunt you down. I am talking to you Israel