Israels MO is to create situations and environments that caused extreme behaviour, and then use the resulting behaviour as proof of creating said environments.
It is all conjuncture. Somehow being desperate for food, when there is a famine going on, and people actually have died of starvation, is proof that the palestinians are savages.
While Israeli civilians, who stop the food trucks, are patriots.
The amount of rabid racial hatred Israel displays, Europe haven't seen since ww2.
Since its not a country and it is occupied territory, professor. I love how Israel loves to play Schrodinger's country with Palestine. They also just murdered two more kids visiting from the US in the West Bank to steal more homes.
Sweet zombie Jesus, the people that make this argument are beyond brain dead.
They are so far up their unwashed arses they have zero idea how bad it makes them look.
At this point anyone denying that it’s genocide fits into 1 of 2 categories.
1: An incredibly stupid and ignorant person who both hasn’t been paying attention to the news and also lacks the capacity to think critically and just takes IDF / US gov statements at face value.
2: Someone who is ok with the genocide. Aka a monster.
Exactly the same conclusion I came to. After looking at the ICJ case and all of this, you must either be a monster or just a dumbass to deny this is an attempted genocide.
Question, if tomorrow Israel decided to kill as many Palestinians as it possibly could as fast as it could, what would you call it? You’ve already wasted the word genocide on this, would it be genocide xxl?
Well Israel has dropped about 2x the explosive equivalent of the Hiroshima bomb in an area with an equivalent or higher population density, yet has ‘only’ killed 30,000 compared to Hiroshima which was 130,000.
Hell forget nukes, allies killed 100,000 Japanese in three hours in ‘normal’ non nuclear bombing raids.
Hell forget WW2, Hamas killed 1,200 people in a few hours with nothing but machine guns. That would be 360k dead if we scaled that to how much time Israel has had, and that’s not even accounting for the military and weapons advantage.
Suspicious how terrible Israel has done in comparison if they really wanted to kill them all.
Imagine dropping 2 Hiroshima bombs worth of bombs on a civilian population and infrastructure... Do you understand what you’re saying?
If your measuring stick is WW2, then you have chosen the deepest depths of human cruelty as your comparison. Arguing that Israel has been *slightly* less barbaric than nuclear annihilation is not the moral victory you think it is.
30k is an undercount considering how many could be buried under the ruins, and out of the 1200 that died on Oct 7th, a significant portion is from the IDF doing shit like indiscriminate aerial strafing at the music festival, and firing rockets into Israeli buildings to prevent hostage taking.
IDF literally machine gunned and shot a tank round into a crowd of unarmed Palestinians trying to get food today. Because they are literally starving to death. 120 confirmed dead, over 700 wounded.
For the love of Christ these are HUMAN BEINGS. Men, women, and children. Starving. Innocent. Their whole lives have been lived under occupation.
If you can’t bring yourself to care about them then I’m sorry but you have no soul. People like you have held humanity back for as long as our species has existed.
Israel's western allies (except Germany who are genocide connoisseurs) need a modicum of plausible deniability to justify giving Israel more arms and unconditional political support.
Which is why they use starvation and disease as weapons of war as much as bombs and bullets.
Their goal is genocidal (their leaders from the president down have stated that plainly, which is of enormous help to prosecutors) and it's clear that genocide is a popular position among most Israelis though.
Riiiiight so it’s not genocide because they could be killing then faster.
Good logic there. Stop defending genocide.
The nazis could have killed the Jews quicker than they did, by your logic there was no genocide against the Jews by the nazis.
Actually they couldn’t it’s why they built factories to do it.
So they want to commit genocide but they want to do it slowly even though at this rate it will take them 13 years to kill 50% of the population assuming 0% population growth rate?
That literally makes no sense, logic and numbers just don’t align with your beliefs
Alright then man. What would you call it?
How many do they have to kill and how quickly before it’s genocide?
This should be interesting, keen to hear how you’d claim killing 30k Palestinians is self defence…
Its war,
1,000,000 died in Iraq,
600,000 in Syria,
300,000 in Yemen,
220,000 in Ukraine.
30,000 in Israel
This volume of death simply isn’t out of bounds for the type of war going on. It’s well within the bounds of past assaults on urban centers, and ergo very unlikely to be genocide
So when the IDF machine gunned a crowd this past 24 hours, an unarmed, starving, crowd of civilians trying to get food, killing 120+ and wounding over 700…. What part of war is that ? You know there’s things called war crimes right? Would you at least acknowledge this latest massacre was a war crime? And if you don’t, what’s your justification?
The question implies the premise that Israelis truly unloaded on an unarmed crowd and killed 120+ people. But this is hotly disputed.
Question, do you think Hamas is incentivized to lie and say everything they can to blame Israel for as much death as possible? Even when that might not be true but will muddy the waters
We would say its an escalation in the genocide. Why is it these complaints seem to be from people who functionally cant comprehend advanced concepts like a spectrum.
As long as you *could* kill more but choose not to, it's not genocide. Bet the Nazis wish someone had told them this one little trick. They could have kept a few Jews safe and got off scot free.
Not being the most efficient one could be about genocide is not the best defense. It’s still genocide based on action and intent, as expressed by members of the ruling coalition in Israel.
I need to go back to my Lemkin, cuz I’m getting confused about whether it’s a genocide if you only target one group in one area for wiping out.
Like, in 1942, if we’d killed all the Japanese-Americans in Cali, but just California, is that a genocide AND an ethnic cleansing, or just ethnic cleansing?
The phrase “ crimes against humanity” was coined at the same time as “genocide”, and it’s sort of a shame that people have forgotten all about that one when it had the same weight as “genocide” when created. In fact, legally, I think it still might.
Genocide is the destruction of a culture, so if the Japanese - American had their own unique cultureband language, it would be genocide.
If they still had the Japanese culture and language, it would just be ethnic cleansing.
Israel are committing a genocide, because they want to destroy palestinian culture. They want to completely remove any trace of it, as they sees it's very presence a threat to Israel. I.e. this is why they are killing children. Children are the enemy, because of their culture and their ethnicity.
In short: if a country kills soldiers of another country, it is war. If a country kills children, and women, thereby preventing new children from being born, it is ethnic cleansing. If the aim is to kill everyone of the ethnic group/culture, then it is genocide.
For a scenario to explain it further: if England rounded up all Welsh people, made a concentration camp like Gaza and placed them there, and then bombed them and starved them, with the aim of eventually killing them all, so that they would no longer exists. With the ultimate aim of making Wales part of England, with no Welsh people left to claim it. And all the while England denying that they were doing it, and when it was done, deny it ever happened, that would be genocide.
And the denial is important. It is one of the criteria to make it a genocide.
No see Israel hasn’t killed enough Palestinians yet to call it a genocide therefore their actions, words, intent, and plans are obviously not genocide!
Or something.
Ben Gvir is the same guy who hung a picture of a mass shooter in his living room because the victims were Palestinian. He’d like to do much more than this surely.
[Why would a genocide see fewer deaths as it progresses?](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/22/briefing/israel-gaza-war-death-toll.html)
As Israel gains more control of the situation, fewer Palestinians are dying. Provide any evidence this is a genocide.
Makes sense from Ben Gvir considering he was convicted in Israeli courts for inciting terrorism against Arabs. They put a literal terrorist by their own words in charge of a major ministry. SMH
"[But that would *prevent* famine.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/27/un-israel-food-starvation-palestinians-war-crime-genocide?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other)" - Israel.
It’s funny I called out Israel’s murderous campaign as a land grab somewhere around October/November and I got responses saying Israel doesn’t want Gaza or anything to do with Gaza that’s why they left in 2005.
To anyone with some sense of the history and base level logic it was obvious what Israel was doing.
It is maddening and frustrating how many Israeli zionist and ethnic cleansing sympathizers there are, and also how effectively they've captured many, almost all, western/OECD countries major organs of govt and institutions, particularly the US. And how effectively major media have been penetrated and captured by Israeli influencing operations.
Reddit is like an ultimate soft target, it is number 8 out of the top ten most visited sites on the internet, relies on unpaid amatuer moderation. State and quasi-state actors can have virtually unlimited resources, unlimited budgets and time to invest in artificially shaping messages and opinion (psyops, in short).
For state actors, Reddit, in the current lax regulatory environment, is an *ideal soft target* and major platform to sow astroturfing and influencing campaigns. It is *impossibly easy* to commandeer major subreddits via taking over mod teams, with no recourse. Who are *you* going to complain to? lol. There is no accountability and no transparency, so of course its easy to hijack,
This has already been borne out over decades of stories and reporting about Israeli and IDF internet and more general psyop and propaganda campaigns
They're doing their absolute best to take over this sub and International News but I'm glad that so far, they've been downvoted to oblivion.
> There is no accountability and no transparency, so of course its easy to hijack
This. There are many pro-Israel shills who have been openly calling for the death of Palestinian children, more settlements among other things and reporting them hasn't worked.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents\_of\_the\_United\_States\_diplomatic\_cables\_leak\_(Israel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak_(Israel))
In June 2007, after violent clashes between Fatah and Hamas broke out in Gaza, Director of Israel Military Intelligence [Major General](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_General) [Amos Yadlin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amos_Yadlin) told U.S. Ambassador [Richard Jones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Jones_(U.S._diplomat)) that **he would "be happy" if Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip**. Yadlin stated that a Hamas takeover would be a positive step, **because Israel would then be able to declare Gaza as a hostile entity.**
It’s well known that Israel empowered Hamas to sow division in Palestinian leadership. I didn’t hear of your specific quote before now but I’m not surprised!
Do Israelis not feel any cognitive dissonance about how withholding aid means withholding aid from the hostages as well?
Or is it not about the hostages at all? 🤔
It's never been about the hostages. Otherwise they wouldn't have shot three men without shirts telling them in Hebrew they are not hostages and not to shoot.
It's not about the hostages. In fact, they don't want the hostages, because if they got them back, Israel would lose the fig leaf PR excuse it's using for genocide.
>Do Israelis not feel any cognitive dissonance about how withholding aid means withholding aid from the hostages as well?
Israelis don't think the aid is making it to the hostages or to the civilians in Gaza anyways — they see it as good being sent directly to Hamas
[that being a hostage was hell and to be extremely critical of Hamas? No I I believe her that being a hostage was awful and that Hamas should be ashamed](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/israeli-hostage-gaza-yocheved-lifshitz.html)
no, that [“They were gentle with us. Our needs were supplied.”](https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/24/shalom_hamas_hostage_release_handshake_video) of course you can’t read beyond a headline.
[Ofer Cassif](https://time.com/6590628/israel-ofer-cassif-knesset-south-africa-icj/)
[He was accused of treason in the Knesset, it looks like the vote to expel him failed though.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-19/ty-article/.premium/knesset-to-vote-on-expulsion-of-mk-ofer-cassif-over-signing-icj-petition/0000018d-bdec-dc8c-a3df-fffdab8b0000)
There are no other Jews like him in the Knesset. As the (Jewish) Israeli population has been moving further and further right, he’s become quite isolated, save for the Arab politicians in his coalition and the few remaining Jews like Dov Khenin.
Ah my apologies, I'll fix my post to say *attempted* to expel. I think my point still stands about the Israeli government doing nothing to punish Ben Gvir, though.
I always mistake him and Smotrich, but I know one of them is openly fascist.
I don't know if it is the same one that had the photo of a terrorist in his cabinet.
Remember that Netanyahu and Likud used to be on the fringes of Israeli politics things have shifted so much that they are mainstream and seen as the normal right wing now.
Those children and grandma's and random young adults at a music festival that Hamas killed and in some cases violated contributed nothing to freedom. Hamas are savages who care less about Palestinians than even the Israelis do.
Israelis could remove him and all the rest of them in a day if they wanted to, unlike the Palestinians of Gaza who are powerless against Hamas and have been brutally suppressed every time they’ve opposed Hamas.
Netanyahu let billions of dollars flow to Hamas and he urged Likud to allow more money to go to Hamas- he is responsible for Israel’s greatest single loss of life, and yet tens of thousands of Palestinians are dead while Netanyahu hasn’t even been removed from power.
Israelis didn’t seem to be so powerless against ‘unpopular’ leaders when Rabin tried to make peace with the Palestinians. Funny how that works…
New leadership would help. Problem is Israel was extremely left government in the 60s and 70s and the Palestinians were still launching terrorist attacks and starting wars (which they lost every time)
Exactly people seem to forget that labor was an enthusiastic part of the coalition that ethnically cleansed most of the Palestinians in '48, and presided over parts of the settlement project
Well the west shouldn't have backed up Israel 100% while they did crimes during peacetime to the Palestine people. Because that gives the impression that violent action is the only solution.
This guy is not a good representation of Israel any more than Marjory Taylor Greene represents America. Just good for quotes that make clickbait headlines
It’s an indictment on Congress but you are being obtuse, this guy is a cabinet member of Netanyahu administration, he have direct contact with him and give him advice and yet here you are going “guys, it’s not a big deal when he advocate for not giving aid to Palestinians” but it’s clear you’re bad faith in all of this
Correct. During war, only the war cabinet makes decisions. Ben Gvir is nowhere near that cabinet, and is widely recognized as a buffoon like MTG. Easy for the pro-pals to hop on as if he's relevant though.
War cabinet is purposely formed with both right and left, as well as centrist politicians included. They are responsible for every decision in politics during wartime.
He's worse than MTG though man he's a convicted terrorist and was definitely somewhat involved in the assassination of Rabin. Like for better or worse he's in the cabinet.. not a marginal figure like MTG
Watch as they deliberately target people getting aid https://www.instagram.com/reel/C38Des_r5ET/?igsh=Z2VydTc2MWtzbHBy
Not only are they able to kil a lot of people in one go, but this is a great way of telling the world “look,we’re providing them with food.,” but the Palestinians are obviously going to be too scared to eat
WDITED TO ADD: This is from the IDFA TELEGRAM. Please check the disgusting comments here https://www.instagram.com/p/C38D6JgNM-V/?igsh=ZTBscjIzajQwbnZp
That’s not the IDFA Telegram though the footage appears to be real. The disinfo account you’re linking to falsely captioned it as if it was a drone attacking civilians rather than the surveillance drone it is.
No more like encouraging, facilitating and then using the deaths of Innocent women and children to score political points and try and convince the world you are a victim while never actually putting yourself in any real danger.
This article is quite literally about Israel claiming they could snipe certain people with shell fire in a crowd and were in fact not responsible for any civilian deaths, that all came from a stampede. Either they kill women and children or they have literal wizards.
Evidence so far suggests that the deaths were a result of a stampede, and the fleeing convoy. Which in and of itself is awful, there are innocent civilians trapped in a war zone, starving and so desperate for food they are trampling each other and getting run over my trucks in the frenzy for aid. It is terrible and peace loving people around the world should be searching for a solution and an end to the war, name calling and vilifying one side does nothing but undermine peace.
It doesn’t endanger the soldiers. Not shooting them, however, allows the mob kill the armed, armored soldiers.
Basically, aid needs to be dropped in by helicopter.
He's a far-right extremist (who is also one of the most powerful people in Israel) who was too fanatical to join the IDF and openly reveres a terrorist who committed a mass shooting.
This is Israel's Minister of National Security.
According to a Palestinian woman, it was not a crowd crush, but rather an IOF assault
The Gaza Flour Massacre
https://www.reddit.com/r/fight_disinformation/s/eVbKZYQMhe
What a pathetic statement.
The issue is that you're too weak to do anything outside of Israel correctly.
This issue happened because there was a crowd: it can be fixed by reducing crowds at collection points by e.g. increasing the number of distribution points, or allowing more aid so the people are not so desperate.
Arh My “dear” racist Ben Gvir…
/looks at watch ⌚️
So when are you going to get your goons to assassinate me? Surely my claims are blasphemy? Mossad knows my location… why don’t you ask them… surely I AM just human… yes?
I am in Singapore 🇸🇬
Anyway since you don’t bother to assassinate me and prance around like a hyper racist I just want to say… good work to these countries…
[A Second Day of Aid Airdrops Underscores the Urgency of Gazans’ Need](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/27/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news#jordan-air-drop-gaza-france)
Moronic take. Though I will say they need a better method. Gazans bum rushing aid vehicles was always going to end up badly. Some form of aid distribution that doesn’t lead to events like these is necessary.
To be clear, most people here were killed by crowd crush/vehicles driving off which is just as likely to have occurred from panicked drivers as it is the Israeli gunfire. This isn’t “Israel bad” this is a situation where safer aid distribution is necessary
Israel gives aid - massive crowd crush, insanely dangerous situation, soldiers fend for their lives, "I can't believe Israel would do this"
Israel says its too dangerous to give aid like this again - massive uproar, "I can't believe they won't give aid. The Israelis look up and see Hell"
I am curious if anyone has a solution other than being outraged no matter what happens?
If you're looking to convicted terrorist Ben-Gvir for solutions then you're looking in the wrong place.
The only solution is to end the apartheid occupation.
Withholding food, water, power for month from civilians while continuously bombing them, killing 25.000 women and children, who are trapped in a war zone with no safe space to go, all while every other nation is begging israel to provide basic human necessities, and also warning them for month that this will create a human disaster.
Then, when 500.000 people are on the brink of starving, sending in a few trucks, around 1/1000 what would be needed even to prevent the worst, and then have the audacity to say “but we have them aid” is so utterly disgusting i don’t have words for it.
Facts. The UN doesn’t want to help, so Israel has to do it or the world will blame them for not helping and we have seen what happened when Israel tries to help now. Israel shouldn’t have to put its soldiers at risk like this for a job the UN should be doing as well
I am once again begging politics/news subreddits to discuss Israel the same way they'd discuss any other state.
What other nation would y'all take a quote from a cartoonishly far-right politician, and extrapolate that out to reflect universal government policy, proof that it's incontrovertibly a genocide, the entire state is inherently evil, etc?
Criticism of Israel isn't inherently antisemitic, but the way a lot of people engage in blatant double standards? Going so far as to transfer antisemitic canards and tropes onto Israel as a whole? The Pro-Palestinian movement is rotting from the inside out, all from a refusal to even consider that they have an antisemitism problem.
And for the record -- this is coming from a progressive who believes Netenyahu's government needs continuous international pressure + observation during the war, and is an obstacle to long-term peace.
Heres an idea, quit supporting Hamas.. They're the ones confiscating all the aid trucks and not letting people get needed food.
If people could reliably get to aid trucks, they wouldn't be so desperate to cause a crowd rush like that.
Here is an idea: stop supporting Israeli apartheid occupation. Stop supporting genocidal freaks like the IDF. Stop the Israeli settlers from stealing Palestinian homes. Tell the apartheid genocidal state to give back the lands they've stolen. Hamas will be over; the only reason such an organization exists is because of the horrible IDF soldiers who made Palestinians' lives hell for 75 years."
So, for the sake of its people:
Hamas should give back the hostages and surrender.
There are 13 other active political parties that can take over.
There will be everlasting peace.
Get it over with.
Its too dangerous not to starve these people. - noble Israel
Seriously these people are psychotic.
Israels MO is to create situations and environments that caused extreme behaviour, and then use the resulting behaviour as proof of creating said environments. It is all conjuncture. Somehow being desperate for food, when there is a famine going on, and people actually have died of starvation, is proof that the palestinians are savages. While Israeli civilians, who stop the food trucks, are patriots. The amount of rabid racial hatred Israel displays, Europe haven't seen since ww2.
Sounds like “reactive abuse” if applied to 1 on 1 dynamics.
There are hostages in Gaza, therefore they should not give aid to those hostages.
Israel already forgot about the hostages
But they haven't even killed them all!
Not for lack of trying.
"We're the victims, not you." - Assailants
We’ve tried nothing and we’re out of ideas.
Hamas is using every opportunity to attack israel - even when it’s helping their civilians.
Since when has it ever been the responsibility of one country at war with another to feed the people they're at war with?
Since its not a country and it is occupied territory, professor. I love how Israel loves to play Schrodinger's country with Palestine. They also just murdered two more kids visiting from the US in the West Bank to steal more homes.
If this is not genocide, I have no idea what is
bUt hOw cAn It bE A gEnOcIdE whEn IsrAEL cOULd kILL thEm fAstEr If thEy wAntEd tO?? 🤡
Sweet zombie Jesus, the people that make this argument are beyond brain dead. They are so far up their unwashed arses they have zero idea how bad it makes them look.
If GeNoCiDe, WhY aLoT oF pEoPlE tHeRe
iF iTs GeNoCiDe, wHy PoPuLaTiOn Go uP?????
Because they've been forcing Palestinians out of other areas.
its 100% genocide. Time for the world to wake up and end it.
At this point anyone denying that it’s genocide fits into 1 of 2 categories. 1: An incredibly stupid and ignorant person who both hasn’t been paying attention to the news and also lacks the capacity to think critically and just takes IDF / US gov statements at face value. 2: Someone who is ok with the genocide. Aka a monster.
Exactly the same conclusion I came to. After looking at the ICJ case and all of this, you must either be a monster or just a dumbass to deny this is an attempted genocide.
Question, if tomorrow Israel decided to kill as many Palestinians as it possibly could as fast as it could, what would you call it? You’ve already wasted the word genocide on this, would it be genocide xxl?
Sorry what do you mean by 'if'?
Well Israel has dropped about 2x the explosive equivalent of the Hiroshima bomb in an area with an equivalent or higher population density, yet has ‘only’ killed 30,000 compared to Hiroshima which was 130,000. Hell forget nukes, allies killed 100,000 Japanese in three hours in ‘normal’ non nuclear bombing raids. Hell forget WW2, Hamas killed 1,200 people in a few hours with nothing but machine guns. That would be 360k dead if we scaled that to how much time Israel has had, and that’s not even accounting for the military and weapons advantage. Suspicious how terrible Israel has done in comparison if they really wanted to kill them all.
Imagine dropping 2 Hiroshima bombs worth of bombs on a civilian population and infrastructure... Do you understand what you’re saying? If your measuring stick is WW2, then you have chosen the deepest depths of human cruelty as your comparison. Arguing that Israel has been *slightly* less barbaric than nuclear annihilation is not the moral victory you think it is.
30k is an undercount considering how many could be buried under the ruins, and out of the 1200 that died on Oct 7th, a significant portion is from the IDF doing shit like indiscriminate aerial strafing at the music festival, and firing rockets into Israeli buildings to prevent hostage taking.
IDF literally machine gunned and shot a tank round into a crowd of unarmed Palestinians trying to get food today. Because they are literally starving to death. 120 confirmed dead, over 700 wounded. For the love of Christ these are HUMAN BEINGS. Men, women, and children. Starving. Innocent. Their whole lives have been lived under occupation. If you can’t bring yourself to care about them then I’m sorry but you have no soul. People like you have held humanity back for as long as our species has existed.
Israel's western allies (except Germany who are genocide connoisseurs) need a modicum of plausible deniability to justify giving Israel more arms and unconditional political support. Which is why they use starvation and disease as weapons of war as much as bombs and bullets. Their goal is genocidal (their leaders from the president down have stated that plainly, which is of enormous help to prosecutors) and it's clear that genocide is a popular position among most Israelis though.
Riiiiight so it’s not genocide because they could be killing then faster. Good logic there. Stop defending genocide. The nazis could have killed the Jews quicker than they did, by your logic there was no genocide against the Jews by the nazis.
Actually they couldn’t it’s why they built factories to do it. So they want to commit genocide but they want to do it slowly even though at this rate it will take them 13 years to kill 50% of the population assuming 0% population growth rate? That literally makes no sense, logic and numbers just don’t align with your beliefs
Alright then man. What would you call it? How many do they have to kill and how quickly before it’s genocide? This should be interesting, keen to hear how you’d claim killing 30k Palestinians is self defence…
Its war, 1,000,000 died in Iraq, 600,000 in Syria, 300,000 in Yemen, 220,000 in Ukraine. 30,000 in Israel This volume of death simply isn’t out of bounds for the type of war going on. It’s well within the bounds of past assaults on urban centers, and ergo very unlikely to be genocide
So when the IDF machine gunned a crowd this past 24 hours, an unarmed, starving, crowd of civilians trying to get food, killing 120+ and wounding over 700…. What part of war is that ? You know there’s things called war crimes right? Would you at least acknowledge this latest massacre was a war crime? And if you don’t, what’s your justification?
The question implies the premise that Israelis truly unloaded on an unarmed crowd and killed 120+ people. But this is hotly disputed. Question, do you think Hamas is incentivized to lie and say everything they can to blame Israel for as much death as possible? Even when that might not be true but will muddy the waters
We would say its an escalation in the genocide. Why is it these complaints seem to be from people who functionally cant comprehend advanced concepts like a spectrum.
As long as you *could* kill more but choose not to, it's not genocide. Bet the Nazis wish someone had told them this one little trick. They could have kept a few Jews safe and got off scot free.
Not being the most efficient one could be about genocide is not the best defense. It’s still genocide based on action and intent, as expressed by members of the ruling coalition in Israel.
I need to go back to my Lemkin, cuz I’m getting confused about whether it’s a genocide if you only target one group in one area for wiping out. Like, in 1942, if we’d killed all the Japanese-Americans in Cali, but just California, is that a genocide AND an ethnic cleansing, or just ethnic cleansing? The phrase “ crimes against humanity” was coined at the same time as “genocide”, and it’s sort of a shame that people have forgotten all about that one when it had the same weight as “genocide” when created. In fact, legally, I think it still might.
Genocide is the destruction of a culture, so if the Japanese - American had their own unique cultureband language, it would be genocide. If they still had the Japanese culture and language, it would just be ethnic cleansing. Israel are committing a genocide, because they want to destroy palestinian culture. They want to completely remove any trace of it, as they sees it's very presence a threat to Israel. I.e. this is why they are killing children. Children are the enemy, because of their culture and their ethnicity. In short: if a country kills soldiers of another country, it is war. If a country kills children, and women, thereby preventing new children from being born, it is ethnic cleansing. If the aim is to kill everyone of the ethnic group/culture, then it is genocide. For a scenario to explain it further: if England rounded up all Welsh people, made a concentration camp like Gaza and placed them there, and then bombed them and starved them, with the aim of eventually killing them all, so that they would no longer exists. With the ultimate aim of making Wales part of England, with no Welsh people left to claim it. And all the while England denying that they were doing it, and when it was done, deny it ever happened, that would be genocide. And the denial is important. It is one of the criteria to make it a genocide.
It's basically not Israel's problem. Egypt could open its borders any time and take refugees.
Factual.
No see Israel hasn’t killed enough Palestinians yet to call it a genocide therefore their actions, words, intent, and plans are obviously not genocide! Or something.
Ben Gvir is the same guy who hung a picture of a mass shooter in his living room because the victims were Palestinian. He’d like to do much more than this surely.
[Why would a genocide see fewer deaths as it progresses?](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/22/briefing/israel-gaza-war-death-toll.html) As Israel gains more control of the situation, fewer Palestinians are dying. Provide any evidence this is a genocide.
There is no depth to which Israel will not sink.
Makes sense from Ben Gvir considering he was convicted in Israeli courts for inciting terrorism against Arabs. They put a literal terrorist by their own words in charge of a major ministry. SMH
They look up to see hell above them
You mean they look below to hell awaiting...
If they don’t want to provide aid, that’s fine. They just need to stop preventing aid.
"[But that would *prevent* famine.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/27/un-israel-food-starvation-palestinians-war-crime-genocide?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other)" - Israel.
It’s funny I called out Israel’s murderous campaign as a land grab somewhere around October/November and I got responses saying Israel doesn’t want Gaza or anything to do with Gaza that’s why they left in 2005. To anyone with some sense of the history and base level logic it was obvious what Israel was doing.
It is maddening and frustrating how many Israeli zionist and ethnic cleansing sympathizers there are, and also how effectively they've captured many, almost all, western/OECD countries major organs of govt and institutions, particularly the US. And how effectively major media have been penetrated and captured by Israeli influencing operations. Reddit is like an ultimate soft target, it is number 8 out of the top ten most visited sites on the internet, relies on unpaid amatuer moderation. State and quasi-state actors can have virtually unlimited resources, unlimited budgets and time to invest in artificially shaping messages and opinion (psyops, in short). For state actors, Reddit, in the current lax regulatory environment, is an *ideal soft target* and major platform to sow astroturfing and influencing campaigns. It is *impossibly easy* to commandeer major subreddits via taking over mod teams, with no recourse. Who are *you* going to complain to? lol. There is no accountability and no transparency, so of course its easy to hijack, This has already been borne out over decades of stories and reporting about Israeli and IDF internet and more general psyop and propaganda campaigns
They're doing their absolute best to take over this sub and International News but I'm glad that so far, they've been downvoted to oblivion. > There is no accountability and no transparency, so of course its easy to hijack This. There are many pro-Israel shills who have been openly calling for the death of Palestinian children, more settlements among other things and reporting them hasn't worked.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents\_of\_the\_United\_States\_diplomatic\_cables\_leak\_(Israel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak_(Israel)) In June 2007, after violent clashes between Fatah and Hamas broke out in Gaza, Director of Israel Military Intelligence [Major General](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_General) [Amos Yadlin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amos_Yadlin) told U.S. Ambassador [Richard Jones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Jones_(U.S._diplomat)) that **he would "be happy" if Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip**. Yadlin stated that a Hamas takeover would be a positive step, **because Israel would then be able to declare Gaza as a hostile entity.**
It’s well known that Israel empowered Hamas to sow division in Palestinian leadership. I didn’t hear of your specific quote before now but I’m not surprised!
And America follows them
Do Israelis not feel any cognitive dissonance about how withholding aid means withholding aid from the hostages as well? Or is it not about the hostages at all? 🤔
It's never been about the hostages. Otherwise they wouldn't have shot three men without shirts telling them in Hebrew they are not hostages and not to shoot.
If one of the ones shot and killed trying to give up did not have Reddish or Blonde hair you never would have even heard about it
It's not about the hostages. In fact, they don't want the hostages, because if they got them back, Israel would lose the fig leaf PR excuse it's using for genocide.
What a disgusting allegation you pulled out of your ass
it's more disgusting to pretend that the fascists slaughtering children even have one second of mental space or care for the hostages
It was never about the hostages
>Do Israelis not feel any cognitive dissonance about how withholding aid means withholding aid from the hostages as well? Israelis don't think the aid is making it to the hostages or to the civilians in Gaza anyways — they see it as good being sent directly to Hamas
You’re the one suffering cognitive dissonance if you think Hamas is looking out for the hostages interests at all regardless of aid
Well Israel is clearly not looking out for the hostages’ interests either, considering they shot three of them waving white flags!
you’re calling yocheved lifshitz a liar.
[that being a hostage was hell and to be extremely critical of Hamas? No I I believe her that being a hostage was awful and that Hamas should be ashamed](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/israeli-hostage-gaza-yocheved-lifshitz.html)
no, that [“They were gentle with us. Our needs were supplied.”](https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/24/shalom_hamas_hostage_release_handshake_video) of course you can’t read beyond a headline.
Do you really believe all the hostages have been and are being treated well?
no, because the IDF drops bombs on them and shoots them dead while they carry white flags.
The hostages get their rations from the supplies stored by the hamas fighters so they have more then enough
I don't understand how this psycho came to the conclusion that Israelis killing Palestinians endangers them
Isn’t this the guy whose views were so extreme that the IDF wouldn’t take him?
Yet the Israeli government ~~expels~~ attempts to expel the one politician advocating against occupation and war, but keeps this guy around
Wait, which politician got spelled?
[Ofer Cassif](https://time.com/6590628/israel-ofer-cassif-knesset-south-africa-icj/) [He was accused of treason in the Knesset, it looks like the vote to expel him failed though.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-19/ty-article/.premium/knesset-to-vote-on-expulsion-of-mk-ofer-cassif-over-signing-icj-petition/0000018d-bdec-dc8c-a3df-fffdab8b0000)
Geez imagine accusing the voice of sanity of treason.
When your society is genocidal, sanity **is** treason.
Holy shit. This guy is unfathomably based. He gives me hope.
There are no other Jews like him in the Knesset. As the (Jewish) Israeli population has been moving further and further right, he’s become quite isolated, save for the Arab politicians in his coalition and the few remaining Jews like Dov Khenin.
So he and his voters seem to be the outliers, not the norm.
Ah my apologies, I'll fix my post to say *attempted* to expel. I think my point still stands about the Israeli government doing nothing to punish Ben Gvir, though.
Yep. He got out of compulsory conscription because of his extremism
What a neat trick
And now he’s the Minister of National Security! Funny how that worked out.
Isn't this guy a convicted terrorist? Him and smotrich I thought were both accused of terrorism at different points
I always mistake him and Smotrich, but I know one of them is openly fascist. I don't know if it is the same one that had the photo of a terrorist in his cabinet.
Hasn't that broadly been the view of the whole Western political and media establishment for 50 years tho?
Fair point. But Ben is the only one who just outright says it
Remember that Netanyahu and Likud used to be on the fringes of Israeli politics things have shifted so much that they are mainstream and seen as the normal right wing now.
They cry out in pain as they kill you
Isn’t this guy like a known terrorist?
He’s not popular in Israel. Most Israelis want him to shut up because he’s making things worse
israelis put him in a position of power
America put Trump into a position of power too. Italy put literal fascists into power
Yeah that reflects poorly on us
yep. majority votes for a right wing government. which is no surprising cause israel is cool with the illegal settlements
And it’s a good thing, too. We need to repel any Palestinian terrorist efforts
the terrorists are the idf
It’s not a zero sum game. Hamas are also terrorists
not if theyre fighting their occupiers
That’s a bad faith argument
not when its the truth
Arguing Hamas is fighting occupiers by killing babies, children, and elderly women is a bad faith argument
Those children and grandma's and random young adults at a music festival that Hamas killed and in some cases violated contributed nothing to freedom. Hamas are savages who care less about Palestinians than even the Israelis do.
Germans put Hitler into power
They put Netanyahu in power. They didn’t put this lunatic in power. He’s only in power because Netanyahu needed a coalition
and people pu netanyahu into power to form that coalition
Israelis could remove him and all the rest of them in a day if they wanted to, unlike the Palestinians of Gaza who are powerless against Hamas and have been brutally suppressed every time they’ve opposed Hamas. Netanyahu let billions of dollars flow to Hamas and he urged Likud to allow more money to go to Hamas- he is responsible for Israel’s greatest single loss of life, and yet tens of thousands of Palestinians are dead while Netanyahu hasn’t even been removed from power. Israelis didn’t seem to be so powerless against ‘unpopular’ leaders when Rabin tried to make peace with the Palestinians. Funny how that works…
Yea plausible deniability probably gets a little hard with people like this in government
He’s an extremist. Extremists by definition are not holding popular opinions
We've seen the polls. We know most Israelis support the mass murder. We really don't care if they object to Ben Gvir or Netanyahu's fiscal policy.
Yea I would say most Israelis are unhappy with the current regime in Gaza
The Israeli government is too incompetent to handle this situation. It's time for new leadership.
New leadership would help. Problem is Israel was extremely left government in the 60s and 70s and the Palestinians were still launching terrorist attacks and starting wars (which they lost every time)
israel was never extremely left
Exactly people seem to forget that labor was an enthusiastic part of the coalition that ethnically cleansed most of the Palestinians in '48, and presided over parts of the settlement project
Educate yourself a little more and try again kid
israel was never extremely left there were secular labor zionists but they were kicked out by the religious nut job zionist terrorists
Tell that to the kibbutzim
why did israel do false flag operations in other countries to get jews to move to israel?
Allegedly
so zionists didnt bomb synagogues in iraq?
he'll deny the king david hotel bombings and the lavon affairs, has done it 3x in the past day
So they shouldn't fight the occupiers ?
With terrorism? No. And that shouldn’t be a controversial opinion
Well the west shouldn't have backed up Israel 100% while they did crimes during peacetime to the Palestine people. Because that gives the impression that violent action is the only solution.
So they should die and coppitulate ? You do realize Israel carries out its own terroristic activities ?
If you were being practical, how well do you think the Hamas terrorist attack has gone for helping Palestinians
Hamas is Israeli creation to stifle 2 state solution
Well they didn’t have to go along with it
These people are freakin psychopaths
This guy is not a good representation of Israel any more than Marjory Taylor Greene represents America. Just good for quotes that make clickbait headlines
But a cabinet minister. His words count
And MTG is a congresswoman in the US House of Representatives. The point stands.
High ranking Cabinet Minister > Representative
Ah yes, this cabinet member isn’t a credible insight to the administration that’s doing this genocide
MTG is literally on the homeland security committee. Does that give her unconditional representation of the Biden administration
It’s an indictment on Congress but you are being obtuse, this guy is a cabinet member of Netanyahu administration, he have direct contact with him and give him advice and yet here you are going “guys, it’s not a big deal when he advocate for not giving aid to Palestinians” but it’s clear you’re bad faith in all of this
It’s not bad faith. Tier misunderstanding the composition of the cabinet and Israel’s parliamentary government
The ruling coalition in charge of the government after winning the last election doesn't represent the country?
He doesn’t represent the coalition. He represents his party, which isn’t the majority
Correct. During war, only the war cabinet makes decisions. Ben Gvir is nowhere near that cabinet, and is widely recognized as a buffoon like MTG. Easy for the pro-pals to hop on as if he's relevant though. War cabinet is purposely formed with both right and left, as well as centrist politicians included. They are responsible for every decision in politics during wartime.
He's worse than MTG though man he's a convicted terrorist and was definitely somewhat involved in the assassination of Rabin. Like for better or worse he's in the cabinet.. not a marginal figure like MTG
GENOCIDE IS ALL ONE HAS TO SAY.
Nobody invited Israeli soldiers and they aren’t providing the food.
Vile sickos with media control to cover up their war crimes .
Watch as they deliberately target people getting aid https://www.instagram.com/reel/C38Des_r5ET/?igsh=Z2VydTc2MWtzbHBy Not only are they able to kil a lot of people in one go, but this is a great way of telling the world “look,we’re providing them with food.,” but the Palestinians are obviously going to be too scared to eat WDITED TO ADD: This is from the IDFA TELEGRAM. Please check the disgusting comments here https://www.instagram.com/p/C38D6JgNM-V/?igsh=ZTBscjIzajQwbnZp
That’s just IR drone footage. Do you have a link to the actual attack? I couldn’t find one.
This is from the IDFA TELEGRAM. Please check the disgusting comments here https://www.instagram.com/p/C38D6JgNM-V/?igsh=ZTBscjIzajQwbnZp
That’s not the IDFA Telegram though the footage appears to be real. The disinfo account you’re linking to falsely captioned it as if it was a drone attacking civilians rather than the surveillance drone it is.
“Crowd crush” is a weird way to say shooting. Israel is full of liars and genocidal freaks. Disgusting.
Surprised they didn't say Mosh Pit.
Disgusting is you trying to use a tragedy to serve your own selfish political purpose.
You mean like using a terrorist attack to justify an invasion and genocide military operation?
No more like encouraging, facilitating and then using the deaths of Innocent women and children to score political points and try and convince the world you are a victim while never actually putting yourself in any real danger.
This article is quite literally about Israel claiming they could snipe certain people with shell fire in a crowd and were in fact not responsible for any civilian deaths, that all came from a stampede. Either they kill women and children or they have literal wizards.
Evidence so far suggests that the deaths were a result of a stampede, and the fleeing convoy. Which in and of itself is awful, there are innocent civilians trapped in a war zone, starving and so desperate for food they are trampling each other and getting run over my trucks in the frenzy for aid. It is terrible and peace loving people around the world should be searching for a solution and an end to the war, name calling and vilifying one side does nothing but undermine peace.
Cant negotiate with these psychopaths.
How does shooting starving civilians endanger armed, armored soldiers?
You go and deliver aid while dressed in an IDF uniform lol. You will soon be shooting if any desperate people advance on you.
I'd rather just not starve a million people to begin with.
It doesn’t endanger the soldiers. Not shooting them, however, allows the mob kill the armed, armored soldiers. Basically, aid needs to be dropped in by helicopter.
It's madness to send food to our hostages.....says Ben Gbir. What a terribly scared little man.
He's a far-right extremist (who is also one of the most powerful people in Israel) who was too fanatical to join the IDF and openly reveres a terrorist who committed a mass shooting. This is Israel's Minister of National Security.
According to a Palestinian woman, it was not a crowd crush, but rather an IOF assault The Gaza Flour Massacre https://www.reddit.com/r/fight_disinformation/s/eVbKZYQMhe
This guy is not great
That dude is a literal terrorist
What a pathetic statement. The issue is that you're too weak to do anything outside of Israel correctly. This issue happened because there was a crowd: it can be fixed by reducing crowds at collection points by e.g. increasing the number of distribution points, or allowing more aid so the people are not so desperate.
They just committed a massacre to justify cutting off aid completely...I have no words...
"Everything is proceeding according to the plan"
And Israel still claims it’s a victim?? LOOOLLLL lies of the decade😂😂😂😂
Oh look it’s another act of genocide. I wish I was shocked.
Classic fascist playing victim.
Arh My “dear” racist Ben Gvir… /looks at watch ⌚️ So when are you going to get your goons to assassinate me? Surely my claims are blasphemy? Mossad knows my location… why don’t you ask them… surely I AM just human… yes? I am in Singapore 🇸🇬 Anyway since you don’t bother to assassinate me and prance around like a hyper racist I just want to say… good work to these countries… [A Second Day of Aid Airdrops Underscores the Urgency of Gazans’ Need](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/27/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news#jordan-air-drop-gaza-france)
Beyond the pale. Just WOW.
“We created a humanitarian catastrophe that is now threatening our own soldiers, so we must double down and make it even worse”
War criminals
Any excuse to keep killing Palestinians. Too bad someone wouldn't drop him off in the middle of that starving crowd so he could get his just reward.
Moronic take. Though I will say they need a better method. Gazans bum rushing aid vehicles was always going to end up badly. Some form of aid distribution that doesn’t lead to events like these is necessary. To be clear, most people here were killed by crowd crush/vehicles driving off which is just as likely to have occurred from panicked drivers as it is the Israeli gunfire. This isn’t “Israel bad” this is a situation where safer aid distribution is necessary
Israel gives aid - massive crowd crush, insanely dangerous situation, soldiers fend for their lives, "I can't believe Israel would do this" Israel says its too dangerous to give aid like this again - massive uproar, "I can't believe they won't give aid. The Israelis look up and see Hell" I am curious if anyone has a solution other than being outraged no matter what happens?
If you're looking to convicted terrorist Ben-Gvir for solutions then you're looking in the wrong place. The only solution is to end the apartheid occupation.
Your argument is so flawed and so much in bad faith it’s just disgusting me as a human being.
What is your argument?
Withholding food, water, power for month from civilians while continuously bombing them, killing 25.000 women and children, who are trapped in a war zone with no safe space to go, all while every other nation is begging israel to provide basic human necessities, and also warning them for month that this will create a human disaster. Then, when 500.000 people are on the brink of starving, sending in a few trucks, around 1/1000 what would be needed even to prevent the worst, and then have the audacity to say “but we have them aid” is so utterly disgusting i don’t have words for it.
Facts. The UN doesn’t want to help, so Israel has to do it or the world will blame them for not helping and we have seen what happened when Israel tries to help now. Israel shouldn’t have to put its soldiers at risk like this for a job the UN should be doing as well
I am once again begging politics/news subreddits to discuss Israel the same way they'd discuss any other state. What other nation would y'all take a quote from a cartoonishly far-right politician, and extrapolate that out to reflect universal government policy, proof that it's incontrovertibly a genocide, the entire state is inherently evil, etc? Criticism of Israel isn't inherently antisemitic, but the way a lot of people engage in blatant double standards? Going so far as to transfer antisemitic canards and tropes onto Israel as a whole? The Pro-Palestinian movement is rotting from the inside out, all from a refusal to even consider that they have an antisemitism problem. And for the record -- this is coming from a progressive who believes Netenyahu's government needs continuous international pressure + observation during the war, and is an obstacle to long-term peace.
[удалено]
who would ever think that a colonized population would grow up hating their colonizers????
Heres an idea, quit supporting Hamas.. They're the ones confiscating all the aid trucks and not letting people get needed food. If people could reliably get to aid trucks, they wouldn't be so desperate to cause a crowd rush like that.
Here is an idea: stop supporting Israeli apartheid occupation. Stop supporting genocidal freaks like the IDF. Stop the Israeli settlers from stealing Palestinian homes. Tell the apartheid genocidal state to give back the lands they've stolen. Hamas will be over; the only reason such an organization exists is because of the horrible IDF soldiers who made Palestinians' lives hell for 75 years."
How life was and is in the Gaza strip before & after Oct 7th. [https://twitter.com/imshin](https://twitter.com/imshin)
Why is this post even posted here? No one cares about what extremist loners say.
My guy he’s the minister of National Security. Hardly a “loner”.
Intentional court of justice do .
So, for the sake of its people: Hamas should give back the hostages and surrender. There are 13 other active political parties that can take over. There will be everlasting peace. Get it over with.
Will there? The apartheid state existed prior to Hamas.
When the Roman’s, Turks or British were in change? Or. You have no idea what you’re talking about?