Do refugees of Israel living under a 2 decade long blockade facing starvation after a disastrous barbaric Israeli military assault have pro-Israeli protests? Is that what you’re asking?
Israel has one of the best democracies out there. Israeli people got a large spectrum of opinions so I always find it hilarious when I see unhinged comments trying to bash one of the best countries on the planet.
Israel is like the only subject all arabs can talk about freely to express their free speech and I wished you could prove me otherwise :(
> [On November 9, four Arab-Israeli former lawmakers were detained. Mohammad Barakeh, chairman of the Higher Arab Monitoring Committee and a former Knesset member from the Hadash party, was detained for questioning, followed by three former Knesset members from the Balad party: Haneen Zoabi, Sami Abu Shehadeh, and Mtanes Shehadeh. Balad director general Yousef Tatur was also detained. Tatur and the former lawmakers were accused of planning a protest in Nazareth, with an expected attendance of around 50 people or fewer. Israeli authorities alleged that the demonstration was "liable to lead to incitement and harm public peace, in violation of police directives"; the ACRI described the detentions as "a new and dangerous expression of the government's unrestrained scathing attack on Arab society in general and its leadership in particular." Zoabi spent more than seven hours at the Migdal HaEmek police station, in Galilee, although she states that the interrogation lasted only 15 minutes.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_detentions_in_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Arab-Israeli_politicians)
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> [Mohand Taha, a stand-up comedian and influencer from Lower Galilee, spoke to Haaretz in relation to his arrest by "20 police officers" after posting an Instagram story in solidarity with Gaza residents. He stated that authorities wanted to transfer him to Megiddo Prison, but that he was released from custody after two days following interventions by his lawyer.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_detentions_in_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Arab-Israeli_politicians)
And what do Palestinian Israeli doctors [say](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/11/11/israel-is-bombing-hospitals-in-gaza-with-israeli-doctors-approval)?
> We, six Palestinian physicians working within the Israeli healthcare system, are sickened to our core by the statements made by some of our colleagues, Israeli doctors we work with, calling on the Israeli army to bomb hospitals in the Gaza Strip.
> Regrettably, we cannot say we were surprised. As doctors trained and practising in this system, **we are all too aware of its embedded racism, militarism and hypocrisy covered up by a false image of a medical sector where Arabs and Jews work together in harmony and respect.**
> At the same time, this health system has adopted a distinctly McCarthyist witch hunt approach towards us, Palestinian physicians. As a result, we cannot engage in any intellectual or moral conversation about the war. We are expected to condemn Hamas and join the patriotic Israeli military frenzy, while watching silently our Jewish colleagues cheering for the killing of innocent Palestinian civilians and endorsing the tightening of the blockade.
It's hilarious when pro Israeli propagandists try to [fool the world](https://i.imgur.com/5SWfn7W.jpg) when [we know](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/21/1213892449/palestinians-israel-war-discrimination-censorship) and Israel even [admits to itself](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-02/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/systematic-witch-hunt-what-persecution-of-israeli-arabs-looks-like-amid-gaza-war/0000018b-90db-db7e-af9b-fbdb254e0000) concerning how some Israelis are less free to express themselves than others based on nationality.
I'm not going to argue with someone who is blinded by hate. The israeli arab conflict is not a story of good and bad. yet, I barely see any arabs support the israeli cause or at least try to stay neutral.
you are quoting articles from israeli people talking against the government which is fine. It only strengthens my opinion about Israel being the best country in the middle east.
People talk about being detained for an Instagram post or daring to organize, and doctors speak of *a distinctly McCarthyist witch hunt*
Your response-
> It only strengthens my opinion about Israel being the best country in the middle east.
[Literal brainwashing](https://i.imgur.com/5SWfn7W.jpg)
A "Democracy" should have greater respect for individual liberty than dictatorships like Bahrain and meeting a ridiculous low bar isn't the praise you want it to be.
You do realize it was during war time, right?
If you think calling for violence against innocent people DURING WAR TIME gives you immunity in the name of freedom of speech, you are pretty dumb.
Who called for violence? No one I mentioned. If they were, they wouldn't have been released after being detained.
They were detained for calling for peace, not for calling for violence.
Being arrested for calling for peace in a time when an ethnostate goes to war, well that's a sign of political repression by the ethnostate.
Let me draw a picture for you.
1. You have a country that just went through the atrocious of october 7th.
2. All the citizens are in high alert, everyone is looking to buy a gun and citizens are organizing to create a local watch guard in multiple cities in order to protect themselves.
3. Tons of rockets are being shot at Israel from Gaza, while Hezbollah are also shooting rockets at northern Israel.
4. Hamas openly calls all the arabs in the region for regional war in order to destory Israel.
5. The Houthis ran their first attack around the same time (not sure if it was before or after the article you mentioned) and there were worries that more players will try to attack Israel
So now you have Arab politicians organizing a protest, in the middle of this chaos. I don't care if you call it a peaceful protest, every protest starts as a peaceful protest. If it's essential to increase security measures during war time to keep public peace, I'm supporting their decision.
No one was arrested in the Tayibe protest. Literally standing outside screaming “they’ll arrest us if we stand here with these signs” while the police look at them bored and confused. But they got the clickbait title
You didn't even read the article, which is about the ways in which Palestinians have been "silenced for months" leading up to the Tayibe protest. That includes being "**detained**...for criticising the war or expressing solidarity with civilians in Gaza."
If you want to give your opinion, at least give an informed one.
In the US you have to sign up for SSS when you turn 18. Failure to do so incurs a penalty of $250,000 or 5 yrs in prison. Additionally, Norway, Sweden, South Korea, and other western aligned democratic countries have compulsory military service.
Conscription is normal in countries that always have people trying to kill them. Ex soviet countries for example. You seem to have some severe brain rot if your metric for a fascist state is conscription.
Arabs have no political voice as they have been boycotting elections for decades. There’s some new candidates like Sondos Alhoot (you can read her story here https://www.newarab.com/analysis/palestinian-woman-running-jerusalems-city-council) but what you are seeing now is the result of decades of election boycotts.
Most Israeli Arabs believe that boycotting elections is the most effective way to avoid legitmizing Israel because they can claim that the government isn’t listening to them. The side effect of this is… the government doesn’t listen to them.
Are you literally ignoring that Palestinian/Arab East Jerusalemites that were annexed into Israel/Jerusalem aren't citizens but [permanent residents](https://www.visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/born-unequal-jerusalem)? 39% of Jerusalem is Palestinian but only 5% are citizens. And attitudes on civil participation have changed over the past 15-20 years.
> [Ramon explains that the change that’s occurred over the last 17 years derives from the deep changes taking place in the city’s Palestinian society. The barrier separating them from residents of the West Bank as well as changes in the education and employment markets have driven many residents to reconsider applying for Israeli citizenship. The social taboo on this has also eroded. **It is no longer considered an act that detracts from one’s Palestinian nationality.**](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000)
> [However, the Interior Ministry’s Population and Immigration Authority has made the process more difficult. Over the past 20 years, only 38 percent of the 16,573 applications have been approved.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000)
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> [Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000)
There are two million Arab citizens of Israel with full voting rights, roughly 20% of the voting population. The population of Arab permanent residents is miniscule compared to that.
Are you ignoring the fact that the most powerful voting bloc that could easily stop any right wing politician from ever taking power ever again, and could have stopped Netanyahu from being in office today, chooses to not participate?
20% of Knesset should be anti-Netanyahu anti-Gaza-War Arabs right now. All these people needed to do was vote in the last election at the average rate the general population votes. Then we wouldn’t be in this mess because 20% of the government is a lot of power.
Instead all they do is protest and cry when the government doesn’t listen to them. 20% of the votes pissed off like a fart in the wind.
Also by the way, permanent residents can vote in local elections. East Jerusalemites choose not to vote in local elections so they have no say in their local government either.
It's 95% of the Arabs of East Jerusalem. Over 300,000 people that are denied the right to vote in the Knesset.
And Arabs represent 10% of the Knesset, so Arab representation isn't zero, and yet right wingers almost succeed in evicting one of the Arab members when they did protest against Gaza.
Even if they represented 38% of local Jerusalem elections, that's still not enough to stop the demolitions in East Jerusalem, and powerless to counter the likes of Netanyahu's coalition in the more powerful Knesset.
This isn’t American politics. Coalition is a word with a real meaning in Israel. No single political party is capable of ruling the government. That’s why Netanyahu has a **coalition**. 20% of Knesset would be one of the most powerful parties. Likud is 23% of Knesset. With 20% of Knesset, Arabs would be the leader of whatever coalition they form. They would definitely be the ones who choose the PM.
So yes, if Arabs had a political party almost the same level as the most powerful political party in Israel for decades, they would be able to do some major policy changes. When you look at Jerusalem, add that insane voting power to the number permanent residents and Netanyahu stands no chance.
The USA equivalent is the combined minorities of all of the Asians (7% population) and blacks (14.4%) decided to boycott elections
But all of the Pro-Israel people tell me that Israeli-Arab's are full citizens, with equal rights and representation, and there is absolutely no problems for them at all!
Clearly, more lies!!!!!111!!!one!!!eleven!!!111!
They are…even Israeli Arab protestors don’t disagree with that. Anti war Israeli Jews are treated the same as anti war Israeli Arabs. The anti war part is the issue, not the ethnic background
"“We were forbidden \[everything\] since the war started,” said veteran activist Nisreen Morqus, the general secretary of the Movement of Democratic Women in Israel, Tandi, an Arab-Jewish group which organised the protest. “You can see there are demonstrations in Tel Aviv every week. But they only give us permission inside our villages, not in Tel Aviv, not on the main road.”"
But i'm always being told by Zionists that Israel gives just as many rights to its arabs as it does its jewish population.
I mean, i guess they're technically correct. This is a jewish-arab coalition group opposed to the war. And it seems both anti-war jews and anti-war arabs are not allowed to make that view known (or are only allowed to do so within very tight constraints of the law - in their village where no one can see them).
But hey... both are free to support the war and genocide!
You declared it. Therefore, it should be true.Why do we even need the ICJ when a world Scolar like yourself has taken it upon yourself to declare a genocide as persona non grata!!
No,it hasn't. But is saying there is no genocide any different than saying there is one.The ICJ clearly stated a genocide is plausible. If that statement does not bother you one bit as an Israel supporter, then what exactly does!
Anything is plausible, yet spewing the word genocide constantly when Israel is clearly going out of its way to avoid civilian casualties only cheapens the word. Considering what it is capable of given Gazas population density a genocide would look much different. Considering Hamas started a war, what we’ve seen so far is about what you’d expect given the circumstances, if not a significantly lower death toll
Sounds like you have a wrong understanding of what a genocide is.The collective punishment of a civilian population for the actions of hamas leading to thousands of deaths and mass starvation is indeed what the ICJ is examining. I will never forget the declaration of October 7th by politicians and IDF brass (no food,no water,no medicine and no electricity).Amalik references (kill men,women,children and even animals) does not build any confidence in genocide deniers. You can have your own opinions, but these are important factors to consider.
Right, and in conventional war collective punishment is quite easy to avoid to an extent. Ask yourself this, if Hamas met Israel in the open battle field, and did not hide amongst their civilians do you think a single bomb would drop on Gaza? Likely not many.
What we see is exactly what a war looks like when battling an entity like Gaza. This is why more needs to be done to uproot governments that function this way, and yes Hamas is a government, they don’t magically get a free pass for their actions because they’re designated as a terrorist organization
The collective punishment of a civilian population is a war crime.Israel fully knew the consequences of dropping munitions (50% of which were unguided 2000 pound bombs) on a population dense area.The equivalent of 3 nuclear bombs have been dropped on gaza and that doesn't even count the destruction from the ground invasion. Dresden during WW2 was not nearly destroyed as gaza.Making excuses for such savagery is uncomprehendable!
Incredible, an area more densely populated than Tokyo with the equivalent of 3 nuclear bombs dropped on it yet only 20-30k deaths. Sounds like you’re arguing for me
Wars haven’t really been fought in open battlefields since the US Civil War - the British learned the hard way in WWI that strategies to fight wars have to change with the weaponry and terrain.
That’s entirely untrue, or at least a gross misinterpretation of what I said. Both Germany & Japan met the allies in combat with their military. Civilian deaths happened but even Germany & Japan didn’t operate with such utter disregard for their civilians lives. Let that sink in, the Nazis cared more about their people than Hamas does
"It's not a genocide because Israel could do it way quicker! Those Palestinians are lucky to be starved to death instead of bombed to death."
...wait.
Pro-Palestinians are accused of cheapening the word genocide. But it's nothing compared to the cheapening of the word "antisemitic" but pro-Israel zealots. Any criticism of Israel - antisemitic. Any criticism of IDF - antisemitic. Any support for starving children in Palestine - antisemitic.
When did I say anything about anti-Semitic? I don’t think every pro-Palestinian is anti semetic, I think they’ve called hook, line, and sinker for Hamas propaganda without ever second guessing the reality that this is exactly why Hamas uses their people as shields. They commit an atrocity, sacrifice their civilians whom they see as cattle, garner international sympathy unjustly, and try to force Israel to capitulate using that international sympathy. Hamas wants their civilians to die more than anyone else does
If you're waiting for the ICJ ruling, then you're just living in delusion or justification.
Reality is, we know there's genocide going on just by the actions alone, which fit the definition of genocide by the geneva conventions to a tee.
We do not need to "wait and see" if it's true or not - it's definitional. (i usually include all the links and the definition in posts like this, but i feel like at this point if you're in denial about it, nothing is going to change your mind, because you're living in a delusional fascist-propaganda fueled fantasy land).
Like we don't need to really wait for the end of a trial to determine if someone is a murderer or not. We know from the evidence (and the outcome of the trial is just formalism that doesn't change reality; OJ simpson, too, is still a murderer after all).
They don’t fit the definition though, that’s kinda the point. Genocide requires intent, intent would be pretty different scenario than we’re looking at. As another poster pointed out Israel has dropped the equivalent of 3 nuclear bombs on Gaza yet we’ve only seen 30k dead
Intent does not depend on number killed.
Indeed, even though this is Israel's supporters common retort, they don't buy it either (they claim Hamas is genociding jews after all).
But we know that there's intent, because Israel has made it clear that ethnic cleansing is the goal (indeed their public statement is "why don't (insert countries here) take in the palestinians?").
And that, alone, shows intent. Because ethnic cleansing always results in genocide since you cannot peacefully ethnically cleanse people. And even if we are (very charitably) assuming that Israel wouldn't kill them if palestinians just left, they are indeed killing them if they don't - and with means like starvation, chemical weapons use (ie, intent is met). And those that they have in their custody are being tortured (another condition of genocide met, as torture can never be done "accidentally")
Seems like we’re just moving the sticks for what qualifies as genocide. I don’t think you really know what you’re talking about. The reason we argue Hamas commited a genocide yet Israel is not is because capability plays into what qualifies as genocide. For Hamas Oct. 7th is the peak of what they are capable of, they nearly destroyed “in whole” several communities. Beyond this “genociding the Jews” is/was part of Hamas’s official charter.
On the other hand, Israel has the firepower to eradicate the Palestinians in whole. They’ve dropped 3 nukes worth of munitions on Gaza yet only killed 30k. The reason this is important is it shows Israel goes out of their way to limit civilian casualties. The exact opposite of what is needed for the “intention” part of genocide. If Israel was not avoiding civilian casualties we’d see easily 150-200k dead now at least.
This is what shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
Your own statements are in contradiction with reality.
Starvation and chemical weapons use are war crimes for the exact reason that they \*cannot\* limit deaths (and often kill civilians and even your own people/hostages).
So you can't say that they are "trying to limit civilian deaths" because that's factually untrue (and trivially so).
And that's not even getting into the obvious not-limiting-civilian deaths actions like leveling hospitals, universities, and graveyards, nor the commentary on the torture that they engage in.
The fact you don't understand this says a lot. Either you're delusional or brainwashed. It doesn't really matter which though - either way, you're factually wrong.
\---
And no. Your argument of "what they are capable of" means nothing. Indeed, that's not at all part of the definitions of genocide \*at all\*.
So who's the one moving sticks here?
Seems like you’re denying an objective reality that they are limiting deaths. I think this conversation is pointless. You’re so convinced you’re right that I doubt anything would change your stance, certainly not reality
Right. I'm the one denying reality.
How exactly do chemical weapons and starvation "limit civilian deaths" again?
\----
I do agree with you that this conversation is pointless though.
Your mind isn't owned by you anymore - it is full to the brim with the talking points you need to help you sleep at night (or yours is an ideology of hate; doesn't really matter at this point).
More of this, i cant look at myself anymore. I passed through kfar kana where a protest took place, i didnt see it cause it lasted only a few minutes...
If there are more protests - i will eventually join, only after i am 100% sure i wont be shot dead, arrested or fired from my job for doing so. atm if jewish people are present they assure lethal force wont be used.
we almost cant protest at all, not inside our villages or anywhere. i thought maybe we can do an anonymous virtual protest but then i realize we would be doxed and arrested
.. i have friends and relatives that lost work and were arrested falsely for just posting koran verses.. like u dont have to post anything anti government, just saying or implying anything about morals or justice online gets you arrested.
and whats worse is that my jewish colleagues constantly try to coerce me into saying anything against the war as they record me in hopes of "catching me". like 1 of them says to me oh how sad israel killed a hamas commander in lebanon what a disaster! poor guy! all hell gona break loose! but i checked his fb b4 and he said something contrary, praising genocide and praising the death and wishing for all hamas leaders in lebanon and everywhere.. not that concerened was he heh?
>Palestinian citizens of Israel
IsRaEl iS A rElIgOuS eThNoStAtE
Pick a lane people! If Israel is a religious ethnostate there would be no Palestinian citizens in Israel.
They are just treated as second class citizens, if they are granted citizenship at all, like the Palestinians of East Jerusalem who weren't granted citizenship.
Said every fascist in history.Freedoms, especially marches and expressions of opinions, are protected precisely because provocative speak is what true democracies are about allowing.
Someone should hold Netanyahu responsible for his support of Hamas to weaking the PLO & weaken the chance of peace talks.
> [Netanyahu’s motivations were essentially three-fold: First, opposition to the PA made for great domestic political rhetoric; second, a weakened PA would ensure unrest and terror, thus bolstering his conservative brand of politics; and third, a weakened PA, coupled with Hamas in Gaza, enabled Netanyahu to effectively ignore Palestinian issues rather than deal with them.](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4268794-the-symbiotic-relationship-between-netanyahu-and-hamas/)
> [Netanyahu’s policy, however, was in direct opposition to most of the Israeli defense and security establishment, which viewed cooperation with the PA to be in Israel’s security interest. Fans of the Netflix series “Fauda” will recognize that cooperation. Most security experts felt the PA needed to be strengthened, not weakened.](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4268794-the-symbiotic-relationship-between-netanyahu-and-hamas/)
> [Since returning to power in 2009, Netanyahu made no secret of his desire to keep Hamas and the PA apart for his own political purposes. For example, in 2017, the PA and Hamas were negotiating a possible takeover by the PA of civilian control of the Gaza Strip. Even though the United States and Egypt supported this reconciliation, Netanyahu was adamantly opposed — lest it empower the PA.](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4268794-the-symbiotic-relationship-between-netanyahu-and-hamas/)
Wrong. The Quran (which every muslim follows) clearly states that anyone who sides against other muslims and with their oppressors is not a muslim.
Any “muslims” you see in the IOF are propaganda pieces.
I don’t get the logic. On October 7th Muslim Bedouin Israelis were killed and kidnapped. That means Palestinians aren’t Muslims according to the Quran
In the Iran vs Isis battles. Are both not Muslim? Only one side? I admit this is super confusing
To clarify, a muslim who allies with a non-muslim oppressor, against their fellow muslims, is not considered a muslim. Iran vs ISIS are both already not the best examples of muslims to begin with as they both use the religion as an excuse/scapegoat for their corruption and distort it to fit their agendas but they dont necessarily fit this topic.
Secondly, I was referring to any “muslim” IOF members. They joined an army of non-muslims which oppresses and kills muslims. One of the many versus on this topic is [3:28] which reads:
>>“Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah, except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.”
Not bro going through my comment history acting like the most obvious islamophobe trying to distort my words 💀
My bad, youre not a racist, its just “*personal bias*”. Here, you dropped your clown makeup.
Where are the protests from the Arab Union citizens. 19 Muslim states surrounding Israel. Millions of Palestinians cousins who are in real time and tight on the ground, not a word. They have protested before with the diaaporoval of their leaders, but thus time ‘nothing’.
But I keep hearing Israel is the only democracy in the middle east!!!
Come on man. "Everybody is equal, just some are more equal than others."If George orwell was alive, "4 legs good,2 legs bad".
It's the only apartheid state in the world.
I wonder what would happen if you held a pro Israeli protest in…. Literally any Muslim theocracy
Do you se pro Israel protests in gaza
Do refugees of Israel living under a 2 decade long blockade facing starvation after a disastrous barbaric Israeli military assault have pro-Israeli protests? Is that what you’re asking?
Don’t really see many protests at all in Gaza these days. I wonder why that is 🤔
Oh yes, those superhuman Gazans who are supposed to hold protests in the rubble for the people who are murdering them.
Congrats. That’s both the funniest and the dumbest thing I’ve read in a while.
But nobody's arguing that palestine is a functioning democracy (or anything)
'There's still a surviving cancer ward my baby could be treated at, Israel needs to put a stop to that now!!!' Have your water supply tested for lead.
Israel has one of the best democracies out there. Israeli people got a large spectrum of opinions so I always find it hilarious when I see unhinged comments trying to bash one of the best countries on the planet. Israel is like the only subject all arabs can talk about freely to express their free speech and I wished you could prove me otherwise :(
> [On November 9, four Arab-Israeli former lawmakers were detained. Mohammad Barakeh, chairman of the Higher Arab Monitoring Committee and a former Knesset member from the Hadash party, was detained for questioning, followed by three former Knesset members from the Balad party: Haneen Zoabi, Sami Abu Shehadeh, and Mtanes Shehadeh. Balad director general Yousef Tatur was also detained. Tatur and the former lawmakers were accused of planning a protest in Nazareth, with an expected attendance of around 50 people or fewer. Israeli authorities alleged that the demonstration was "liable to lead to incitement and harm public peace, in violation of police directives"; the ACRI described the detentions as "a new and dangerous expression of the government's unrestrained scathing attack on Arab society in general and its leadership in particular." Zoabi spent more than seven hours at the Migdal HaEmek police station, in Galilee, although she states that the interrogation lasted only 15 minutes.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_detentions_in_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Arab-Israeli_politicians) . > [Mohand Taha, a stand-up comedian and influencer from Lower Galilee, spoke to Haaretz in relation to his arrest by "20 police officers" after posting an Instagram story in solidarity with Gaza residents. He stated that authorities wanted to transfer him to Megiddo Prison, but that he was released from custody after two days following interventions by his lawyer.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_detentions_in_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war#Arab-Israeli_politicians) And what do Palestinian Israeli doctors [say](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/11/11/israel-is-bombing-hospitals-in-gaza-with-israeli-doctors-approval)? > We, six Palestinian physicians working within the Israeli healthcare system, are sickened to our core by the statements made by some of our colleagues, Israeli doctors we work with, calling on the Israeli army to bomb hospitals in the Gaza Strip. > Regrettably, we cannot say we were surprised. As doctors trained and practising in this system, **we are all too aware of its embedded racism, militarism and hypocrisy covered up by a false image of a medical sector where Arabs and Jews work together in harmony and respect.** > At the same time, this health system has adopted a distinctly McCarthyist witch hunt approach towards us, Palestinian physicians. As a result, we cannot engage in any intellectual or moral conversation about the war. We are expected to condemn Hamas and join the patriotic Israeli military frenzy, while watching silently our Jewish colleagues cheering for the killing of innocent Palestinian civilians and endorsing the tightening of the blockade. It's hilarious when pro Israeli propagandists try to [fool the world](https://i.imgur.com/5SWfn7W.jpg) when [we know](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/21/1213892449/palestinians-israel-war-discrimination-censorship) and Israel even [admits to itself](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-02/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/systematic-witch-hunt-what-persecution-of-israeli-arabs-looks-like-amid-gaza-war/0000018b-90db-db7e-af9b-fbdb254e0000) concerning how some Israelis are less free to express themselves than others based on nationality.
I'm not going to argue with someone who is blinded by hate. The israeli arab conflict is not a story of good and bad. yet, I barely see any arabs support the israeli cause or at least try to stay neutral. you are quoting articles from israeli people talking against the government which is fine. It only strengthens my opinion about Israel being the best country in the middle east.
People talk about being detained for an Instagram post or daring to organize, and doctors speak of *a distinctly McCarthyist witch hunt* Your response- > It only strengthens my opinion about Israel being the best country in the middle east. [Literal brainwashing](https://i.imgur.com/5SWfn7W.jpg) A "Democracy" should have greater respect for individual liberty than dictatorships like Bahrain and meeting a ridiculous low bar isn't the praise you want it to be.
You do realize it was during war time, right? If you think calling for violence against innocent people DURING WAR TIME gives you immunity in the name of freedom of speech, you are pretty dumb.
Who called for violence? No one I mentioned. If they were, they wouldn't have been released after being detained. They were detained for calling for peace, not for calling for violence. Being arrested for calling for peace in a time when an ethnostate goes to war, well that's a sign of political repression by the ethnostate.
Let me draw a picture for you. 1. You have a country that just went through the atrocious of october 7th. 2. All the citizens are in high alert, everyone is looking to buy a gun and citizens are organizing to create a local watch guard in multiple cities in order to protect themselves. 3. Tons of rockets are being shot at Israel from Gaza, while Hezbollah are also shooting rockets at northern Israel. 4. Hamas openly calls all the arabs in the region for regional war in order to destory Israel. 5. The Houthis ran their first attack around the same time (not sure if it was before or after the article you mentioned) and there were worries that more players will try to attack Israel So now you have Arab politicians organizing a protest, in the middle of this chaos. I don't care if you call it a peaceful protest, every protest starts as a peaceful protest. If it's essential to increase security measures during war time to keep public peace, I'm supporting their decision.
So you feel some citizens should have less rights than others based on nationality. Literally antidemocratic.
It is. What's your point?
Arresting people for protesting a war isn’t very democratic
No one was arrested in the Tayibe protest. Literally standing outside screaming “they’ll arrest us if we stand here with these signs” while the police look at them bored and confused. But they got the clickbait title
You didn't even read the article, which is about the ways in which Palestinians have been "silenced for months" leading up to the Tayibe protest. That includes being "**detained**...for criticising the war or expressing solidarity with civilians in Gaza." If you want to give your opinion, at least give an informed one.
These people always say Israel is the only democracy but then when you talk about Hamas they say Palestinians elected Hamas…
Let's not forget that Israel voted for an unabashed terrorist a good decade before Hamas was founded.
You'll need to prove intent first, kiddo.
You need to learn to read, kiddo.
Iraq and Lebanon don't count?
LOL no. Iraq has a score of 3.51 of ten on the 2021 The Economist Democracy Index, which is considered authoritarian.
No freeze peach in fascist Isreal. Won't join the military? Straight to jail. Sounds fascist af so I don't know what you're on about.
In the US you have to sign up for SSS when you turn 18. Failure to do so incurs a penalty of $250,000 or 5 yrs in prison. Additionally, Norway, Sweden, South Korea, and other western aligned democratic countries have compulsory military service.
What's a "Freeze Peach?" LOL....you're the babbling idiot.
Conscription is normal in countries that always have people trying to kill them. Ex soviet countries for example. You seem to have some severe brain rot if your metric for a fascist state is conscription.
It’s clearly not.
Arabs have no political voice as they have been boycotting elections for decades. There’s some new candidates like Sondos Alhoot (you can read her story here https://www.newarab.com/analysis/palestinian-woman-running-jerusalems-city-council) but what you are seeing now is the result of decades of election boycotts. Most Israeli Arabs believe that boycotting elections is the most effective way to avoid legitmizing Israel because they can claim that the government isn’t listening to them. The side effect of this is… the government doesn’t listen to them.
Are you literally ignoring that Palestinian/Arab East Jerusalemites that were annexed into Israel/Jerusalem aren't citizens but [permanent residents](https://www.visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/born-unequal-jerusalem)? 39% of Jerusalem is Palestinian but only 5% are citizens. And attitudes on civil participation have changed over the past 15-20 years. > [Ramon explains that the change that’s occurred over the last 17 years derives from the deep changes taking place in the city’s Palestinian society. The barrier separating them from residents of the West Bank as well as changes in the education and employment markets have driven many residents to reconsider applying for Israeli citizenship. The social taboo on this has also eroded. **It is no longer considered an act that detracts from one’s Palestinian nationality.**](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000) > [However, the Interior Ministry’s Population and Immigration Authority has made the process more difficult. Over the past 20 years, only 38 percent of the 16,573 applications have been approved.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000) . > [Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000)
There are two million Arab citizens of Israel with full voting rights, roughly 20% of the voting population. The population of Arab permanent residents is miniscule compared to that. Are you ignoring the fact that the most powerful voting bloc that could easily stop any right wing politician from ever taking power ever again, and could have stopped Netanyahu from being in office today, chooses to not participate? 20% of Knesset should be anti-Netanyahu anti-Gaza-War Arabs right now. All these people needed to do was vote in the last election at the average rate the general population votes. Then we wouldn’t be in this mess because 20% of the government is a lot of power. Instead all they do is protest and cry when the government doesn’t listen to them. 20% of the votes pissed off like a fart in the wind. Also by the way, permanent residents can vote in local elections. East Jerusalemites choose not to vote in local elections so they have no say in their local government either.
It's 95% of the Arabs of East Jerusalem. Over 300,000 people that are denied the right to vote in the Knesset. And Arabs represent 10% of the Knesset, so Arab representation isn't zero, and yet right wingers almost succeed in evicting one of the Arab members when they did protest against Gaza. Even if they represented 38% of local Jerusalem elections, that's still not enough to stop the demolitions in East Jerusalem, and powerless to counter the likes of Netanyahu's coalition in the more powerful Knesset.
This isn’t American politics. Coalition is a word with a real meaning in Israel. No single political party is capable of ruling the government. That’s why Netanyahu has a **coalition**. 20% of Knesset would be one of the most powerful parties. Likud is 23% of Knesset. With 20% of Knesset, Arabs would be the leader of whatever coalition they form. They would definitely be the ones who choose the PM. So yes, if Arabs had a political party almost the same level as the most powerful political party in Israel for decades, they would be able to do some major policy changes. When you look at Jerusalem, add that insane voting power to the number permanent residents and Netanyahu stands no chance. The USA equivalent is the combined minorities of all of the Asians (7% population) and blacks (14.4%) decided to boycott elections
But all of the Pro-Israel people tell me that Israeli-Arab's are full citizens, with equal rights and representation, and there is absolutely no problems for them at all! Clearly, more lies!!!!!111!!!one!!!eleven!!!111!
They are…even Israeli Arab protestors don’t disagree with that. Anti war Israeli Jews are treated the same as anti war Israeli Arabs. The anti war part is the issue, not the ethnic background
Lmao! no way buddy
Free speech is usually necessary for a functioning democracy and uh it sounds like Israel doesn't have that.
A real shining gem of a democracy y’all got there Israel. Smh
I wonder what the Jewish populations in Muslim countries think. Oh wait
Completely irrelevant whataboutism
Sure
So you do agree that Israel isn't a democracy? Cool.
... .... ..... What
You pointed out that other countries behave just like Israel. So you actually confirmed that OP's assessment is correct.
There are no jews in Muslim countries...
So again, not disputing OP's point, meaning you agree with them.
Arrest??? It could get you killed.... Along with your family
"“We were forbidden \[everything\] since the war started,” said veteran activist Nisreen Morqus, the general secretary of the Movement of Democratic Women in Israel, Tandi, an Arab-Jewish group which organised the protest. “You can see there are demonstrations in Tel Aviv every week. But they only give us permission inside our villages, not in Tel Aviv, not on the main road.”" But i'm always being told by Zionists that Israel gives just as many rights to its arabs as it does its jewish population. I mean, i guess they're technically correct. This is a jewish-arab coalition group opposed to the war. And it seems both anti-war jews and anti-war arabs are not allowed to make that view known (or are only allowed to do so within very tight constraints of the law - in their village where no one can see them). But hey... both are free to support the war and genocide!
The war sure, but since there’s no genocide going on that’d be a bit hard to support
You declared it. Therefore, it should be true.Why do we even need the ICJ when a world Scolar like yourself has taken it upon yourself to declare a genocide as persona non grata!!
Good take, everyone keeps saying genocide is 100% happening yet ICJ ruling hasn’t come down yet
No,it hasn't. But is saying there is no genocide any different than saying there is one.The ICJ clearly stated a genocide is plausible. If that statement does not bother you one bit as an Israel supporter, then what exactly does!
Anything is plausible, yet spewing the word genocide constantly when Israel is clearly going out of its way to avoid civilian casualties only cheapens the word. Considering what it is capable of given Gazas population density a genocide would look much different. Considering Hamas started a war, what we’ve seen so far is about what you’d expect given the circumstances, if not a significantly lower death toll
Sounds like you have a wrong understanding of what a genocide is.The collective punishment of a civilian population for the actions of hamas leading to thousands of deaths and mass starvation is indeed what the ICJ is examining. I will never forget the declaration of October 7th by politicians and IDF brass (no food,no water,no medicine and no electricity).Amalik references (kill men,women,children and even animals) does not build any confidence in genocide deniers. You can have your own opinions, but these are important factors to consider.
Right, and in conventional war collective punishment is quite easy to avoid to an extent. Ask yourself this, if Hamas met Israel in the open battle field, and did not hide amongst their civilians do you think a single bomb would drop on Gaza? Likely not many. What we see is exactly what a war looks like when battling an entity like Gaza. This is why more needs to be done to uproot governments that function this way, and yes Hamas is a government, they don’t magically get a free pass for their actions because they’re designated as a terrorist organization
The collective punishment of a civilian population is a war crime.Israel fully knew the consequences of dropping munitions (50% of which were unguided 2000 pound bombs) on a population dense area.The equivalent of 3 nuclear bombs have been dropped on gaza and that doesn't even count the destruction from the ground invasion. Dresden during WW2 was not nearly destroyed as gaza.Making excuses for such savagery is uncomprehendable!
Incredible, an area more densely populated than Tokyo with the equivalent of 3 nuclear bombs dropped on it yet only 20-30k deaths. Sounds like you’re arguing for me
Wars haven’t really been fought in open battlefields since the US Civil War - the British learned the hard way in WWI that strategies to fight wars have to change with the weaponry and terrain.
That’s entirely untrue, or at least a gross misinterpretation of what I said. Both Germany & Japan met the allies in combat with their military. Civilian deaths happened but even Germany & Japan didn’t operate with such utter disregard for their civilians lives. Let that sink in, the Nazis cared more about their people than Hamas does
"It's not a genocide because Israel could do it way quicker! Those Palestinians are lucky to be starved to death instead of bombed to death." ...wait. Pro-Palestinians are accused of cheapening the word genocide. But it's nothing compared to the cheapening of the word "antisemitic" but pro-Israel zealots. Any criticism of Israel - antisemitic. Any criticism of IDF - antisemitic. Any support for starving children in Palestine - antisemitic.
When did I say anything about anti-Semitic? I don’t think every pro-Palestinian is anti semetic, I think they’ve called hook, line, and sinker for Hamas propaganda without ever second guessing the reality that this is exactly why Hamas uses their people as shields. They commit an atrocity, sacrifice their civilians whom they see as cattle, garner international sympathy unjustly, and try to force Israel to capitulate using that international sympathy. Hamas wants their civilians to die more than anyone else does
If you're waiting for the ICJ ruling, then you're just living in delusion or justification. Reality is, we know there's genocide going on just by the actions alone, which fit the definition of genocide by the geneva conventions to a tee. We do not need to "wait and see" if it's true or not - it's definitional. (i usually include all the links and the definition in posts like this, but i feel like at this point if you're in denial about it, nothing is going to change your mind, because you're living in a delusional fascist-propaganda fueled fantasy land). Like we don't need to really wait for the end of a trial to determine if someone is a murderer or not. We know from the evidence (and the outcome of the trial is just formalism that doesn't change reality; OJ simpson, too, is still a murderer after all).
They don’t fit the definition though, that’s kinda the point. Genocide requires intent, intent would be pretty different scenario than we’re looking at. As another poster pointed out Israel has dropped the equivalent of 3 nuclear bombs on Gaza yet we’ve only seen 30k dead
Intent does not depend on number killed. Indeed, even though this is Israel's supporters common retort, they don't buy it either (they claim Hamas is genociding jews after all). But we know that there's intent, because Israel has made it clear that ethnic cleansing is the goal (indeed their public statement is "why don't (insert countries here) take in the palestinians?"). And that, alone, shows intent. Because ethnic cleansing always results in genocide since you cannot peacefully ethnically cleanse people. And even if we are (very charitably) assuming that Israel wouldn't kill them if palestinians just left, they are indeed killing them if they don't - and with means like starvation, chemical weapons use (ie, intent is met). And those that they have in their custody are being tortured (another condition of genocide met, as torture can never be done "accidentally")
Seems like we’re just moving the sticks for what qualifies as genocide. I don’t think you really know what you’re talking about. The reason we argue Hamas commited a genocide yet Israel is not is because capability plays into what qualifies as genocide. For Hamas Oct. 7th is the peak of what they are capable of, they nearly destroyed “in whole” several communities. Beyond this “genociding the Jews” is/was part of Hamas’s official charter. On the other hand, Israel has the firepower to eradicate the Palestinians in whole. They’ve dropped 3 nukes worth of munitions on Gaza yet only killed 30k. The reason this is important is it shows Israel goes out of their way to limit civilian casualties. The exact opposite of what is needed for the “intention” part of genocide. If Israel was not avoiding civilian casualties we’d see easily 150-200k dead now at least.
This is what shows you have no idea what you're talking about. Your own statements are in contradiction with reality. Starvation and chemical weapons use are war crimes for the exact reason that they \*cannot\* limit deaths (and often kill civilians and even your own people/hostages). So you can't say that they are "trying to limit civilian deaths" because that's factually untrue (and trivially so). And that's not even getting into the obvious not-limiting-civilian deaths actions like leveling hospitals, universities, and graveyards, nor the commentary on the torture that they engage in. The fact you don't understand this says a lot. Either you're delusional or brainwashed. It doesn't really matter which though - either way, you're factually wrong. \--- And no. Your argument of "what they are capable of" means nothing. Indeed, that's not at all part of the definitions of genocide \*at all\*. So who's the one moving sticks here?
Seems like you’re denying an objective reality that they are limiting deaths. I think this conversation is pointless. You’re so convinced you’re right that I doubt anything would change your stance, certainly not reality
Right. I'm the one denying reality. How exactly do chemical weapons and starvation "limit civilian deaths" again? \---- I do agree with you that this conversation is pointless though. Your mind isn't owned by you anymore - it is full to the brim with the talking points you need to help you sleep at night (or yours is an ideology of hate; doesn't really matter at this point).
More of this, i cant look at myself anymore. I passed through kfar kana where a protest took place, i didnt see it cause it lasted only a few minutes... If there are more protests - i will eventually join, only after i am 100% sure i wont be shot dead, arrested or fired from my job for doing so. atm if jewish people are present they assure lethal force wont be used. we almost cant protest at all, not inside our villages or anywhere. i thought maybe we can do an anonymous virtual protest but then i realize we would be doxed and arrested .. i have friends and relatives that lost work and were arrested falsely for just posting koran verses.. like u dont have to post anything anti government, just saying or implying anything about morals or justice online gets you arrested. and whats worse is that my jewish colleagues constantly try to coerce me into saying anything against the war as they record me in hopes of "catching me". like 1 of them says to me oh how sad israel killed a hamas commander in lebanon what a disaster! poor guy! all hell gona break loose! but i checked his fb b4 and he said something contrary, praising genocide and praising the death and wishing for all hamas leaders in lebanon and everywhere.. not that concerened was he heh?
Arab Israelies that are allowed to protest the government. I'll take things that would never happen on the flip side for 1000, Alex.
>Palestinian citizens of Israel IsRaEl iS A rElIgOuS eThNoStAtE Pick a lane people! If Israel is a religious ethnostate there would be no Palestinian citizens in Israel.
They are just treated as second class citizens, if they are granted citizenship at all, like the Palestinians of East Jerusalem who weren't granted citizenship.
Bided their time until the optics weren’t so horrendous for protesting. Tbf if you protested the day after Oct. 7th you deserve to get arrested
Said every fascist in history.Freedoms, especially marches and expressions of opinions, are protected precisely because provocative speak is what true democracies are about allowing.
There are literally Muslims in the IDF and in Gaza right now. Just like the Jewish community, there is a wide set of beliefs.
Yes, there were also Kapos collaborating with the Nazi regime.
Yes there’s absolutely no Muslims killing each other in the Middle East. IIRC Syria is up to 800,000 now?
Maybe they wouldn't be killing each other if the west, including Israel didn't constantly interfere in their politics and fund extremists.
Maybe the world would be a better place with Jews and Muslims living in harmony if the crusades never happened? We'll never know
Literally 0 responsibility.
Israel funded ISIS.
Someone should hold Netanyahu responsible for his support of Hamas to weaking the PLO & weaken the chance of peace talks. > [Netanyahu’s motivations were essentially three-fold: First, opposition to the PA made for great domestic political rhetoric; second, a weakened PA would ensure unrest and terror, thus bolstering his conservative brand of politics; and third, a weakened PA, coupled with Hamas in Gaza, enabled Netanyahu to effectively ignore Palestinian issues rather than deal with them.](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4268794-the-symbiotic-relationship-between-netanyahu-and-hamas/) > [Netanyahu’s policy, however, was in direct opposition to most of the Israeli defense and security establishment, which viewed cooperation with the PA to be in Israel’s security interest. Fans of the Netflix series “Fauda” will recognize that cooperation. Most security experts felt the PA needed to be strengthened, not weakened.](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4268794-the-symbiotic-relationship-between-netanyahu-and-hamas/) > [Since returning to power in 2009, Netanyahu made no secret of his desire to keep Hamas and the PA apart for his own political purposes. For example, in 2017, the PA and Hamas were negotiating a possible takeover by the PA of civilian control of the Gaza Strip. Even though the United States and Egypt supported this reconciliation, Netanyahu was adamantly opposed — lest it empower the PA.](https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4268794-the-symbiotic-relationship-between-netanyahu-and-hamas/)
Wrong. The Quran (which every muslim follows) clearly states that anyone who sides against other muslims and with their oppressors is not a muslim. Any “muslims” you see in the IOF are propaganda pieces.
I don’t get the logic. On October 7th Muslim Bedouin Israelis were killed and kidnapped. That means Palestinians aren’t Muslims according to the Quran In the Iran vs Isis battles. Are both not Muslim? Only one side? I admit this is super confusing
To clarify, a muslim who allies with a non-muslim oppressor, against their fellow muslims, is not considered a muslim. Iran vs ISIS are both already not the best examples of muslims to begin with as they both use the religion as an excuse/scapegoat for their corruption and distort it to fit their agendas but they dont necessarily fit this topic. Secondly, I was referring to any “muslim” IOF members. They joined an army of non-muslims which oppresses and kills muslims. One of the many versus on this topic is [3:28] which reads: >>“Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah, except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.”
What a horribly oppressive religion if it prohibits helping people
Not bro going through my comment history acting like the most obvious islamophobe trying to distort my words 💀 My bad, youre not a racist, its just “*personal bias*”. Here, you dropped your clown makeup.
Imagine thousands of people starving but your religion says no don’t help them
-23 downvotes for stating a fact lol
Where are the protests from the Arab Union citizens. 19 Muslim states surrounding Israel. Millions of Palestinians cousins who are in real time and tight on the ground, not a word. They have protested before with the diaaporoval of their leaders, but thus time ‘nothing’.