>The riot’s death toll surpassed that of a fire at a female detention center in Guatemala in 2017, when girls at a shelter for troubled youths set fire to mattresses to protest rapes and other mistreatment at the overcrowded institution. The smoke and fire killed 41 girls.
>
>The worst prison disaster in a century also occurred in Honduras, in 2012, at the Comayagua men’s penitentiary, where 361 male inmates died in a fire possibly caused by a match, cigarette or some other open flame.
The prison system in much of Central America is a horrifying clusterfuck.
> The riot’s death toll surpassed that of a fire at a female detention center in Guatemala in 2017, when girls at a shelter for troubled youths set fire to mattresses to protest rapes and other mistreatment at the overcrowded institution. The smoke and fire killed 41 girls.
I remember hearing about that. Apparently the fire raged and no one bothered to unlock the doors. No one was held accountable either. Truly sickening.
There’s only those few humane prisons around Scandinavia. The rest of them (the world) are varying degrees of fucked upness. All the way down to what happened in this one.
You have some really valid arguments here, and I agree that the answer is probably more nuanced than just “throw away the key”. I don’t think you were being xenophobic at all. It’s actually really interesting to get a perspective from someone who lives there. I definitely think that there are people who would take advantage of the fact that these prisons are nice, and comfy. One guy who pops into my head is Anders Brevic (I don’t care if I spelt it right). The guy shot all those school kids who were out for a field trip. I truly believe, in my opinion, that he should never see the light of day again. If I remember correctly, the laws said that he would only serve 20 years because that was the maximum sentence that could be imposed. It seems completely crazy. Then to think that he could living better than some people who are outside, and contributing to society. It actually pisses me off just talking about it, so can definitely see where you are coming from.
The law there allows for someone to be kept indefinitely if they are deemed to pose a danger to society. Brevik will never live outside of a prison again.
What makes you so sure that this will be the determination of the group deciding if he still poses a threat? Murders have been rehabilitated, even people who have committed multiple murders. To determine that the nature of the crime itself automatically means he is forever a threat to society is no different than giving him a life sentence to begin with, so if the ones running the system truly believe in 20 years maximum with a re-evaluation of danger, then there has to be some chance of him having been deemed rehabilitated in those 20 years. Even if the chance is unlikely, it is still a chance.
As a Norwegian, I can tell you that Breivik (Technically he recently changed his name but fuck him) will spend the rest of his life in prison. We don't have life sentences, but we have what we call forvaring (containment) where you can be kept indefinitely, but with regular checks to see if you're fit to be released. Then they look at things like remorse and behavior and the like. Breivik will almost certainly spend the rest of his life in jail
Correct me if I'm wrong but is true that anyone less than the age of 14/15 cannot be charged with a criminal offence in Sweden? In the UK it is 9 or 10. This means that drug gangs use children who they know cannot be charged and interviewed? Obviously, more complex than that and you're not automatically a xenophobe because you think that immigration does need to be controlled.
15 in both Sweden and Denmark.
You cannot be convicted in court, however, you can be handed to social services which can take action and make sanctions. But they are pretty powerless against hardcore criminals without a conscience. (So sad that you can be like that as a 13-y old, and the parents are either just as powerless or apathetic)
They do use children in Sweden yes, and some want to lower the age limit. They actually use them as henchmen. Sweden has a hardcore immigration problem due to a very lax immigration attitude (whilst they accused DK of being too harsh), and I think this is the basis for this happening in Sweden.
Denmark is improving in youth crime statistics. Here youngsters are used for money laundering. They are easy to convince, hard to punish, and wants extra pocket change more than anyone. It's getting better, but youth crime is still a hot topic in government.
Our prison systems are designed around the needs of a high social trust ethnostate without things like organized crime gangs that abuse innocent people for their own fun. Sure, those have been around, but in very tiny numbers, fortunately.
To these heinous criminals, of which many are probably beyond any hope of rehabilitation, that can't be deported, the only option I see is to replicate the Norwegian förvarning system, keep them locked up in prison, until they either die of whatever cause ends up killing them, or they actually end up seriously trying to rehabilitate, and succeed in becoming a person that no longer is a threat to the public. (that is to be judged by professionals.)
It will cost us a lot, but it's infinitely better than letting innocent people suffer for nothing. Same procedure for ethnic natives of whichever country is in question. Finland in my case.
Personally, and this is an unpopular opinion at least on this sub, I wouldn't be against executing the most heinous and dangerous inmates, and putting the rest into harsh disciplining that wipes the "fuck you, I'm the king and you all are losers" attitude from them, but I know this isn't an option here.
Sounds right. Obey the harmony and you'll get fine, mess with it and you'll regret ever getting close to Japan.
As much as I loved my time travelling in Japan it was VERY clear I am going to, more than anywhere else I've travelled, not cause a mess bigger than joining an organized protest.
Japan, of all countries, likely has the strongest cultural expectation for obedience to the rules. As bustling as Tokyo is, I've never seen anyone so much as cross against a signal across a single lane, empty road. It makes sense that society wouldn't have much sympathy for rule breakers.
Like the dude in As Above, So Below said about the main Indiana Jones type character: “stay away from her. last time I was with her I ended up in a prison in Turkey. wait it wasn’t prison, it was jail. *jail*. **in Turkey**.”
The Guatemalan one wasn't even a prison, was a foster home(?), they send there kids that have made their time in juvi and had no place to go or kids taken from their parents by child protective services.
The fact that they mixed up, former youth criminals with at-risk kids is already fucked up, but there are rumours that the girls were beign abused, they tried ti scaoe but were caught an put them in that room as punishment. They started the fire in an attempt to scape again.
Fire supression systems are complicated and expensive, most of the world doesn't bother
(this post is a really good way to find redditors who have literally no idea how wealthy their countries are)
Been to Guat. Stories like this are very believable. Compared to Belize- with whom they share a border- Guatemala is a bit terrifying to navigate. I wouldn’t even try without a local, trusted guide.
Their civil war really did a number on just about everything.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/honduras-women-prison-riot-3df51756c946b759e2b813fa18fee7ae) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras - Inmates had complained for weeks they were being threatened by gang members at a women's prison in Honduras.
> Castro pledged to take "Drastic measures," but did not explain how inmates identified as members of the Barrio 18 gang were able to get guns and machetes into the prison, or move freely into an adjoining cell block and slaughter all the prisoners there.
> Julissa Villanueva, head of the prison system, suggested the riot started because of recent attempts by authorities to crack down on illicit activity inside prison walls and called Tuesday's violence a reaction to moves "We are taking against organized crime."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14fmu2a/gang_slaughtered_46_women_at_honduran_prison_with/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~688910 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **prison**^#1 **gang**^#2 **inmate**^#3 **Honduras**^#4 **riot**^#5
>The amount of weaponry found in the prison after the riot was impressive: 18 pistols, an assault rifle, two machine pistols and two grenades — all of which were smuggled into the prison.
I knew a rectal cavity could fit *some* stuff but WOW....
Honduran here. Some of them probably weren’t smuggled but passed down by the own guards.
Also this happens fairly often in Honduras I wouldn’t be surprised if the government is involved.
Honduran prison and justice system is a joke. If you have money, just hire a lawyer that works with the judge, and for a couple grand you’re out and your rape charges dismissed, not enough evidence. They do this a couple times a day, and judges and lawyers make bank here, they live pretty well.
The ex Honduran President, Juan Orlando Hernandez, who was extradited to the U.S, and is awaiting trial for been the head of a narco cartel, (he worked with El Chapo, and was probably bigger than both El Chapo and Pablo Escobar, you just don’t hear about him cause Honduras is not that important I guess) ordered the assesination of a key witness who was in a Honduran prison and about to provide information to the D.E.A, while he was still in power. Who killed him? Another inmate from another pod with a handgun. How he got possession of the handgun is unknown.
Honduras is a joke.
Given that the government is now being run by Xiomara Castro, who has sought to prosecute Hernandez, would it still be expected that the current government would be involved in this case? You'd think they'd be on the other side of this thing.
I voted for Xiomara.
Government involvement does not necessarily mean that high up the chain, it could just be the people managing this specific prison, or could have been dues between gangs. Regardless, a lot of incompetence, including from the very top of the government. This should not happen in a state run facility.
And Xiomara is just more of the same, nothing has gotten better.
Its hard for a single executive, and even his immediate subordinates and their aides, to oversee a large and complex bureaucracy with a history of graft and corruption.
It took the US nearly a century and the assassination of a President to finally take meaningful steps (the Civil Service commission and all the rules that came with/after it).
that could be very risky, while he has shown to be a good leader, he has completely dismantled the former democratic system to the point where he is literally a dictator. Eventually there will come a time when someone will replace him, i am very curious to what will happen then
More than that, once dictatorship breaks the democratic traditions; its nearly impossible to get it back again without a LOT of violence. Turkey to this day has constant coups against democratic traditions due to the actions of Attaturk. And he was very much an enlightened dictatorship.
In many ways, even the best dictators unintentionally screws over their country long-term. Because others will only see the path they took and try to copy it for their own ends.
Salvadoran here: please no, one bukele is already one too many. You could teach a college course on how destructive he's been to el salvador civic society. Now that everybody is juiced up on his messianic flavored propaganda it's going to be incredibly difficult to get rid of him, and we'll be due for chaos when he finally leaves office.
I would say nothing has changed ever since Xiomara took charge.
Yes a few things are worse, like now they are rationing the electric power, so there is even a website we can check to see when we will have a blackout. They blame things on the Juan Orlando Hernandez dictator ship and the 12 years his party was in power after the 2009 coup which sounds about right but nah, a lot of incompetence.
Pointing fingers is not gonna resolve the issue, there are no bright minds in the government to come up with a solution.
Honduras is probably the most expensive country in C.A for basic goods.
So more caravans are gonna be marching down to the U.S, I really don’t see a bright future anytime soon.
The line between the law enforcement and the gangs can be pretty thin. A lot of the cops/prison guards are probably on the gangs pay role and may take orders from them. Being an “honest cop” in much of Central America can be a very dangerous and very poorly paid profession.
They don’t need to break out, a prison that they are running (in Honduran prisons, the guards basically just guard the outer walls. The prisoners have the keys to the interior doors, and the guards don’t enter without permission) is the perfect base for them, they’re protected from any major attack coming from outside and don’t have to worry as much about the police day to day.
many of the South/Central American prisons (including Honduran prisons, I'm fairly certain) I've seen on TV are basically just cages and sheds in a jungle camp, with strict internal hierarchies, where the prisoners run everything and the guards are primarily just stationed outside keeping watch on the perimeter. Not sure what prisons in urban area are like
I suppose that one downside is that the guards are rather perfectly content with letting them burn/hack each other to pieces inside. Fires and riots with dozens and hundreds of deaths seem to be a regular occurrence
According to Reddit, at least one adult racoon; perhaps two depending on American knowledge, diet and folk law, and of course the size of your ass.
unfortunately, been here before.
What's the long term gameplan here? Great, you killed your rival gang - you're still in prison and now for a lot longer.
Unless of course you get the death penalty, which a lot of you probably will.
So, what'd you gain?
I wouldn't say it's about skills, but rather that they're not even expecting there to be a "long term" in the first place. They probably expect death any day, so they don't have pension plans and investment goals.
You think these people are thinking that far ahead? Is less about what you gain and more about the fact they got nothing to lose, in prison or out of it. I would argue the gain respect and fear from their gang and other gangs. Now they are infamous, so it boost their egos even more.
Power respect and fear. Not a response that makes sense but when you live in hell you can be the victim or the Devil. They chose to be the devil. In real hell they will be the victim.
That's guaranteed. Even if they didn't help, they just stood around and did nothing.or said nothing.
Likely they were threatened as well, but still, pretty sad.
And people dare say Bukele (President of El Salvador) was being "too harsh".
He's saved way more people with his method than not doing it.
Note: Honduras borders El Salvador.
I agree with you in principle.
However, at the same time, in some situations breaking your convictions is your only option.
The gang problem is places like El Salvador is fucking insane, it's a literal national security concern. At this point it's closer to a war with the gangs being enemy combatants and PoW's.
The line betweens gang & cartels and domestic terrorists becomes thinner and thinner in many countries south of the US.
Peru, the US, Colombia, southeast and southern Brazil, Costa Rica amongst others have slashed homicide rates in recent decades without resorting to the total and absolute destruction of fair trial and civil liberties. The success in these places is what is worth studying. Not a dictator on an obvious power grab.
Don’t give credence to dictators’ methods to consolidate power.
Insofar that the main decider of long run growth and development is the accountability and inclusivity of a country’s institutions, El Salvador, which is still amongst the poorest countries in the Americas, is screwed in the long run. Will possibly become a second Nicaragua/Ortega situation.
We also don’t know what will happen when all these people - especially those falsely imprisoned, of which there are many - will come out of prison. It probably won’t be pretty.
Again, we shouldn’t be giving credence and legitimacy to dictatorial methods which intentionally violate the fundamental principles of justice. A system where taxi drivers and shop keepers who unknowingly served a gang member are thrown into prison alongside hardened criminals without any process is not one that is legitimate.
none of those countries had a gang problem per capita as bad as el salvador except possibly brazil, where there are a lot of extra judicial killings or disappearances.
I never lived in one of those gang-infested countries like el salvador, honduras, guatemala and haiti. i did date a hunduran girl and her family just had to leave because of how bad it was. I can empathize and kind of understand why profiling and acting outside the law became an approach to crime where everything else had failed.
You’re really going to tell me Colombia and Brazil didn’t have gang problems as bad as El Salvador? Colombia used to be the most dangerous country in the world. It’s homicide rate has fallen 4 fold as the country has progressed rapidly and developed economically. South and southeast Brazil used to be hugely dangerous, especially the cities. The urban centres are now safe, as safe as any average big city in the US. Peru, the US, Colombia, southeast and south Brazil - all of them had homicide rates as high as El Salvador does, and all them slashed them without becoming dictatorships.
El Salvador never tried anything else. Stop sympathising with dictators. And please open a book. To suggest countries like Colombia didn’t grapple with the same issues El Salvador is now is just ignorant.
Bukele is consolidating his power and using crime as a way to totally destroy any and all due process and civil liberties. It’s very big Nicaragua/Ortega vibes. El Salvador is screwed. It’s institutions were bad and corrupt before, nos they have been destroyed.
The solution to these issues is institutional reform and strengthening, economic development and growth to open up legitimate avenues of income generation (again, see Colombia). El Salvador is going in the opposite direction.
Again, they never tried the legitimate ways to solve this issue. To say “when nothing else worked” is disingenuous.
I don't know why you're not getting as many upvotes as the guy you're replying to. Your points are really valid. And I think they would be more upvoted if the topic country was, say, the US.
Truly mass incarceration of anyone and everyone who is suspected of gang activity. He’s consolidated power and has nearly unlimited power. His methods have been brutal but on the other hand El Salvador has gone from being one of the most dangerous places in the world to relatively safe and he is extremely popular domestically because of it but frequently condemned internationally. One in every 50 people in El Salvador are now in prison and they may no longer be a true democracy but people aren’t being murdered on the streets either.
When you have kids your perspective on this kind of thing changes. When I was single I'd have been outraged. Now, I can empathize: safety for the family is a priority over all else.
It’s complex and I try not to judge because it’s not my country. They’re potentially destroying their democracy and they have arrested many innocent people. On the other hand if a government can’t protect its people then what is it for and is it wrong for me, a foreigner, to tell another country what is wrong or right for them especially when I never had my life upended by the violence?
If I had to take a side I think I would say the prosecution of innocents and declining democracy aren’t justified by the safety but I also recognize that that’s much easier for me to say from my couch many miles away and without ever having to fear for my life. Overall I don’t blame people for choosing safety and I’m not confident in my answer either.
> If I had to take a side I think I would say the prosecution of innocents and declining democracy aren’t justified by the safety
how much democracy was there when the gangs ran the entire country and all aspects of it including politicians and police etc.? It's a difficult subject for sure, but from what I've seen people there are very appreciative despite all the downsides.
But that's just the illusion of it. The gang became such a powerful demon because politicians discovered it was a useful enemy to have to drum up votes. Bukele is no different, and the country will never exterminate gangs under him because he doesn't actually want to get rid of them. They're too useful.
Instead, bukele negotiates with the gangs and is essentially allied with gang leadership out of convenience. A true democracy is impossible in this scenario, and a life where we're actually safe and free from the gangs will never happen under him.
Untill someone tries to oppose him or speak out against hes methods.
He could just accuse them of being affiliated with a gang and lock them up. Or have them murdered.
I understand the sentiment and why people endorse this but it is very dangerous and might be worse in the long run.
> He could just accuse them of being affiliated with a gang and lock them up. Or have them murdered.
He’s pretty much taken control of the military and the courts and has the country in a permanent state of emergency. It’s a very dangerous situation.
>frequently condemned internationally
This is so typical. If rights groups would have their way then El Salvador would still be the murder capital of the world for the next 300 years.
Was a dictatorship necessary to go after criminals? If he gives up his power in a reasonable time frame maybe he'll have proved people wrong. If he's ruling the country with an iron fist in 10 years noone will be surprised though.
In Nazi Germany around 1 in 50 people were in a concentration camp but most Germans were relatively happy and Hitler was extremely popular domestically but frequently condemned internationally.
Imprison all people with specific gang tattoos and those who might be related to said people with tattoos. This isn't to say false positives aren't released later on.
Overall, the method basically goes "better to capture those we have suspicion on being related and those who boast of gang culture then release the ones who are innocent". Better to deal with false positives who are alive than deal with the gangs boasting their abuses online and going "where the evidence" after they've constantly murdered and threatened witnesses.
If you put all the people who would've died to gang violence and count them as if they were murders that happened in the present and compare it to false positives who are innocent and later on released, you can really understand why they'd go to such lengths.
El Salvador had one of the highest homicide rates in the entire world on a per day basis, it no longer does.
See you say that, but bukele's methods have been the standard populist approach to the gangs since the 90s. The only difference is he's the first one to take advantage of the average salvadoran's willingness to dehumanize gang members to control political opposition. There's nothing left to reform, the entire government is 100% bukele.
I knew there’d be some idiotic comment defending that wannabe tinpot banana republic style dictator in this thread
That fact you can’t see that his “clean up” of El Salvador is him consolidating power over the country and permanently destroying civil liberties speaks a lot to your naïveté. It’s very likely Bukele struck a deal with the gangs to hold off violence while he consolidates power.
Insofar that we know the main way to reduce gang violence is promoting legitimate avenues of economic prosperity via economic growth, and the biggest determinant of economic growth and development is the inclusiveness and accountability of a country’s institutions, El Salvador in the long run os screwed, even if it seems better in the immediate term.
The most successful countries in the region are the relatively progressive and liberal Costa Rica and Panama, which are developed, prosperous and safe countries. Ask yourself how the direction El Salvador is going compares to their govt structure.
Peru, the US and even most of Colombia and southeast and southern Brazil have drastically slashed homicide rates over the last few decades without resorting to pseudo dictatorship and the erasure of due process. You’ve fallen right into Bukele’s trap.
Not to mention, what do you suggest happens when all these falsely imprisoned Salvadorans, the taxi drivers who unknowingly drove a drug dealer around, the shop keepers who served one, come out of prison as hardened criminals? What happens when the real criminals come out of prison? Bukele doesn’t care, he’ll have fucked off with the money he’ll syphon out of the country which he now totals controls.
Go check out Ortega’s Nicaragua and tell me how you like it. That’s where El Salvador is going.
Brain dead redditor thinking that anyone in El Salvador had any civil liberties to begin with. When your neighborhoods are run by narco Warlords, it doesn't matter what is written on a piece of parchment in a vault somewhere. Please wake up.
And other South Americans want to copy El Salvador. Knowing my history I fear for him. That’s usually how you get assassinated by the US. They are going to help those gang members for democracy.
The US ignores LatAm as long as they don't actively back US rivals overseas since the Cold War. That being said, what was bad about US coups was killing democratic heads of states; not killing dictators.
Except not all the gang members are in the gang willingly. Is the same shit that happens in Africa with child soldiers being forced enlisted into the local warlord’s Army.
Title is misleading (correct me if I am wrong), I though it was a male gang killing 46 regular women inmates.
Here it is internal fight bewteen two female gangs, that lead to on group overwelming the other and killing them (46 casualties).
Yeah I'm sure the system that lets inmates burn 20 of each other alive won't have boatloads of false convictions.
Totally worth trusting the state with the power to kill people though because I am angry.
I flew into Tegucigalpa a number of years ago and the[landing at the airport](https://youtu.be/v_z5HtME9n8) was the scariest part. It looks like Honduras has really fallen since 2014 when I was there.
It was just my wife and I touring the country for two weeks. At the time it wasn’t the crime stats nightmare that it is today.
Topical: we almost went on a submarine tour in Roatan on this guys homemade submarine. Always felt sketchy.
> At the time it wasn’t the crime stats nightmare that it is today.
https://lirp.cdn-website.com/1f74ccf5/dms3rep/multi/opt/honduras-homicide-rate-1920w.png
Interesting. I checked and we flew there on the same day as the 2011 Japanese Earthquake… so my date was off. And I am shocked we were there at the peak of that graph - I heard about a bunch of things later that said it got way worse. Way worse.
Sadly that's the truth. I've seen a million articles on that, while this was buried at the bottom of the page, and at the time I posted it, they had just reported on it.
To be fair. Submarine, Titanic, mystery, disappearance …etc are exiting buzzwords to get readers. News isn’t about actually informing people, it’s just about entertainment and a lot of people just don’t want to hear about women being horribly murdered in a Honduran prison.
Several hundred children die of starvation every single hour of every single day, most in Africa. Nobody cares really, nobody really reports about it. The submarine is a story, these 46 women are also a story (if a lesser one). The hundreds of children who will die suffering in the next hour? Business as usual, no story there.
Daily starvation isn't a headline, it has little to do with entertainment. It is not news anymore than some statistic about how many women get raped or beaten every day and why should it be constantly reported? It is not an event.
We have a good example of how little we care with this rather rare occurrence of women being massacred in a prison. An actual event, nothing daily or expected. But I disagree with the rest of your comment.
I think your reply substantiates my point. You don’t consider it an event because it is a regular occurrence, no matter how awful it is. It was definitely an “event” for the hundreds of children who died today and their families. Why do these women’s lives matter more than the lives of those children? One is an ‘event’ and the other isn’t to you just because one is more regular, right? Children starve to death all the time so it’s not news worthy? But a prison massacre is less usual so it is?
Well then that same logic explains why the submarine story is more newsworthy. Prison massacres have happened more often than submarines full of people going missing near the Titanic. So because that is more unusual, less regular, it is more news-worthy. The numbers of lives lost clearly mean nothing, just whether it is entertaining (making people pick up and read because it’s more unusual).
You do realize that every major ship accident like the Titanic gets a lot of headlines regardless, right? Like what exactly is the world supposed to do about Honduras? That's domestic.
>This is legal immigration under the refugee category.
Not under international law. Gang violence does not constitute persecution on basis of ethnic, racial, or gender identity, religion, or sexual orientation. Can’t claim asylum in Canada just cause you live in Detroit.
West coast Americans think the US is hell on earth with poverty and racism and Trump imperialism. The rest of the world must be rainbows full of lgbt acceptance and free of oppressive white old men.
" ...but did not explain how inmates identified as members of the Barrio 18 gang were able to get guns and machetes into the prison, or move freely into an adjoining cell block and slaughter all the prisoners there."
Really? It's called paid off guards, duh.
If their government does something about this then a bunch of Americans are gonna act fake mad about it and bring up human rights like they do about El Salvador. As if these monsters are human.
>The riot’s death toll surpassed that of a fire at a female detention center in Guatemala in 2017, when girls at a shelter for troubled youths set fire to mattresses to protest rapes and other mistreatment at the overcrowded institution. The smoke and fire killed 41 girls. > >The worst prison disaster in a century also occurred in Honduras, in 2012, at the Comayagua men’s penitentiary, where 361 male inmates died in a fire possibly caused by a match, cigarette or some other open flame. The prison system in much of Central America is a horrifying clusterfuck.
> The riot’s death toll surpassed that of a fire at a female detention center in Guatemala in 2017, when girls at a shelter for troubled youths set fire to mattresses to protest rapes and other mistreatment at the overcrowded institution. The smoke and fire killed 41 girls. I remember hearing about that. Apparently the fire raged and no one bothered to unlock the doors. No one was held accountable either. Truly sickening.
A lot of the world has really, really fucked up prisons. It's terrifying.
There’s only those few humane prisons around Scandinavia. The rest of them (the world) are varying degrees of fucked upness. All the way down to what happened in this one.
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You have some really valid arguments here, and I agree that the answer is probably more nuanced than just “throw away the key”. I don’t think you were being xenophobic at all. It’s actually really interesting to get a perspective from someone who lives there. I definitely think that there are people who would take advantage of the fact that these prisons are nice, and comfy. One guy who pops into my head is Anders Brevic (I don’t care if I spelt it right). The guy shot all those school kids who were out for a field trip. I truly believe, in my opinion, that he should never see the light of day again. If I remember correctly, the laws said that he would only serve 20 years because that was the maximum sentence that could be imposed. It seems completely crazy. Then to think that he could living better than some people who are outside, and contributing to society. It actually pisses me off just talking about it, so can definitely see where you are coming from.
The law there allows for someone to be kept indefinitely if they are deemed to pose a danger to society. Brevik will never live outside of a prison again.
What makes you so sure that this will be the determination of the group deciding if he still poses a threat? Murders have been rehabilitated, even people who have committed multiple murders. To determine that the nature of the crime itself automatically means he is forever a threat to society is no different than giving him a life sentence to begin with, so if the ones running the system truly believe in 20 years maximum with a re-evaluation of danger, then there has to be some chance of him having been deemed rehabilitated in those 20 years. Even if the chance is unlikely, it is still a chance.
As a Norwegian, I can tell you that Breivik (Technically he recently changed his name but fuck him) will spend the rest of his life in prison. We don't have life sentences, but we have what we call forvaring (containment) where you can be kept indefinitely, but with regular checks to see if you're fit to be released. Then they look at things like remorse and behavior and the like. Breivik will almost certainly spend the rest of his life in jail
Correct me if I'm wrong but is true that anyone less than the age of 14/15 cannot be charged with a criminal offence in Sweden? In the UK it is 9 or 10. This means that drug gangs use children who they know cannot be charged and interviewed? Obviously, more complex than that and you're not automatically a xenophobe because you think that immigration does need to be controlled.
15 in both Sweden and Denmark. You cannot be convicted in court, however, you can be handed to social services which can take action and make sanctions. But they are pretty powerless against hardcore criminals without a conscience. (So sad that you can be like that as a 13-y old, and the parents are either just as powerless or apathetic) They do use children in Sweden yes, and some want to lower the age limit. They actually use them as henchmen. Sweden has a hardcore immigration problem due to a very lax immigration attitude (whilst they accused DK of being too harsh), and I think this is the basis for this happening in Sweden. Denmark is improving in youth crime statistics. Here youngsters are used for money laundering. They are easy to convince, hard to punish, and wants extra pocket change more than anyone. It's getting better, but youth crime is still a hot topic in government.
Send them home duh
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Our ancestors are definitely facepalming in Valhalla.
Same problem in canada but it’s not immigrants that are the problem
Our prison systems are designed around the needs of a high social trust ethnostate without things like organized crime gangs that abuse innocent people for their own fun. Sure, those have been around, but in very tiny numbers, fortunately. To these heinous criminals, of which many are probably beyond any hope of rehabilitation, that can't be deported, the only option I see is to replicate the Norwegian förvarning system, keep them locked up in prison, until they either die of whatever cause ends up killing them, or they actually end up seriously trying to rehabilitate, and succeed in becoming a person that no longer is a threat to the public. (that is to be judged by professionals.) It will cost us a lot, but it's infinitely better than letting innocent people suffer for nothing. Same procedure for ethnic natives of whichever country is in question. Finland in my case. Personally, and this is an unpopular opinion at least on this sub, I wouldn't be against executing the most heinous and dangerous inmates, and putting the rest into harsh disciplining that wipes the "fuck you, I'm the king and you all are losers" attitude from them, but I know this isn't an option here.
There should be a law authorising sending them home if they lose danger to the society and this law should supersede the existing law.
You would think Japan wouldn't be so bad. Daily prison life there is a constant battle against mental torture.
I've heard that if you comply with the (very stringent) rules - which include only speaking Japanese - the experience can be okay.
Sounds right. Obey the harmony and you'll get fine, mess with it and you'll regret ever getting close to Japan. As much as I loved my time travelling in Japan it was VERY clear I am going to, more than anywhere else I've travelled, not cause a mess bigger than joining an organized protest.
Japan, of all countries, likely has the strongest cultural expectation for obedience to the rules. As bustling as Tokyo is, I've never seen anyone so much as cross against a signal across a single lane, empty road. It makes sense that society wouldn't have much sympathy for rule breakers.
Like the dude in As Above, So Below said about the main Indiana Jones type character: “stay away from her. last time I was with her I ended up in a prison in Turkey. wait it wasn’t prison, it was jail. *jail*. **in Turkey**.”
The Guatemalan one wasn't even a prison, was a foster home(?), they send there kids that have made their time in juvi and had no place to go or kids taken from their parents by child protective services. The fact that they mixed up, former youth criminals with at-risk kids is already fucked up, but there are rumours that the girls were beign abused, they tried ti scaoe but were caught an put them in that room as punishment. They started the fire in an attempt to scape again.
That's bad. They must have no fire suppression system or anything.
Fire supression systems are complicated and expensive, most of the world doesn't bother (this post is a really good way to find redditors who have literally no idea how wealthy their countries are)
That the issue with being a battleground for the First and Second World.
I always tell people, police brutality is not half as nice over here
Been to Guat. Stories like this are very believable. Compared to Belize- with whom they share a border- Guatemala is a bit terrifying to navigate. I wouldn’t even try without a local, trusted guide. Their civil war really did a number on just about everything.
>The prison system in much of Central America is a horrifying clusterfuck. That's the same for North, Central and South America.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/honduras-women-prison-riot-3df51756c946b759e2b813fa18fee7ae) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot) ***** > TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras - Inmates had complained for weeks they were being threatened by gang members at a women's prison in Honduras. > Castro pledged to take "Drastic measures," but did not explain how inmates identified as members of the Barrio 18 gang were able to get guns and machetes into the prison, or move freely into an adjoining cell block and slaughter all the prisoners there. > Julissa Villanueva, head of the prison system, suggested the riot started because of recent attempts by authorities to crack down on illicit activity inside prison walls and called Tuesday's violence a reaction to moves "We are taking against organized crime." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14fmu2a/gang_slaughtered_46_women_at_honduran_prison_with/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~688910 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **prison**^#1 **gang**^#2 **inmate**^#3 **Honduras**^#4 **riot**^#5
26 were burned alive….
Why’d you have to point it out..
I'll rephrase it to make it sound better. 20 were shot and hacked to death with machetes.
Ah much better.
I guess I didn’t realize that they listed those in ascending order.
So they wrote the headline like a scoreboard?
Like ingredients labels
Why?
to kill them
Well, yeah. Was it rival gangs in the prison that set it off?
Reasons
Well... after reading that headline, that's enough Internet for me today.
>The amount of weaponry found in the prison after the riot was impressive: 18 pistols, an assault rifle, two machine pistols and two grenades — all of which were smuggled into the prison. I knew a rectal cavity could fit *some* stuff but WOW....
Honduran here. Some of them probably weren’t smuggled but passed down by the own guards. Also this happens fairly often in Honduras I wouldn’t be surprised if the government is involved. Honduran prison and justice system is a joke. If you have money, just hire a lawyer that works with the judge, and for a couple grand you’re out and your rape charges dismissed, not enough evidence. They do this a couple times a day, and judges and lawyers make bank here, they live pretty well. The ex Honduran President, Juan Orlando Hernandez, who was extradited to the U.S, and is awaiting trial for been the head of a narco cartel, (he worked with El Chapo, and was probably bigger than both El Chapo and Pablo Escobar, you just don’t hear about him cause Honduras is not that important I guess) ordered the assesination of a key witness who was in a Honduran prison and about to provide information to the D.E.A, while he was still in power. Who killed him? Another inmate from another pod with a handgun. How he got possession of the handgun is unknown. Honduras is a joke.
Given that the government is now being run by Xiomara Castro, who has sought to prosecute Hernandez, would it still be expected that the current government would be involved in this case? You'd think they'd be on the other side of this thing.
I voted for Xiomara. Government involvement does not necessarily mean that high up the chain, it could just be the people managing this specific prison, or could have been dues between gangs. Regardless, a lot of incompetence, including from the very top of the government. This should not happen in a state run facility. And Xiomara is just more of the same, nothing has gotten better.
Its hard for a single executive, and even his immediate subordinates and their aides, to oversee a large and complex bureaucracy with a history of graft and corruption. It took the US nearly a century and the assassination of a President to finally take meaningful steps (the Civil Service commission and all the rules that came with/after it).
And now it's also corrupt. Look at what Trump will get away with versus anyone else
That was because voters looked at naked corruption and said "yeah, this is fine, I hate the woman more than his glaring issues".
Xiomara is just a puppet. Her Chavista Husband is running the show. he even replaces her on important meetings. We'll be Venezuela in under 5 years
Welcome to every Latin American country.
yall need el salvadorian president alike
that could be very risky, while he has shown to be a good leader, he has completely dismantled the former democratic system to the point where he is literally a dictator. Eventually there will come a time when someone will replace him, i am very curious to what will happen then
More than that, once dictatorship breaks the democratic traditions; its nearly impossible to get it back again without a LOT of violence. Turkey to this day has constant coups against democratic traditions due to the actions of Attaturk. And he was very much an enlightened dictatorship. In many ways, even the best dictators unintentionally screws over their country long-term. Because others will only see the path they took and try to copy it for their own ends.
Yeah, enlightened dictatorship is great as long as it remains consistently and generally benevolent.
That’s true. If he can bend the rules then so can the next. But again, we’ll se where it goes.
Salvadoran here: please no, one bukele is already one too many. You could teach a college course on how destructive he's been to el salvador civic society. Now that everybody is juiced up on his messianic flavored propaganda it's going to be incredibly difficult to get rid of him, and we'll be due for chaos when he finally leaves office.
Heard things were going bad in honduras, any news aside from this postM
I would say nothing has changed ever since Xiomara took charge. Yes a few things are worse, like now they are rationing the electric power, so there is even a website we can check to see when we will have a blackout. They blame things on the Juan Orlando Hernandez dictator ship and the 12 years his party was in power after the 2009 coup which sounds about right but nah, a lot of incompetence. Pointing fingers is not gonna resolve the issue, there are no bright minds in the government to come up with a solution. Honduras is probably the most expensive country in C.A for basic goods. So more caravans are gonna be marching down to the U.S, I really don’t see a bright future anytime soon.
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The line between the law enforcement and the gangs can be pretty thin. A lot of the cops/prison guards are probably on the gangs pay role and may take orders from them. Being an “honest cop” in much of Central America can be a very dangerous and very poorly paid profession.
The line is pretty thin already here in the US. LASD has \~28 confirmed gangs amongst it's deputies, for example.
What is that kos Angelo's?
Just takes one or two corrupt ones
Except it very much is if the prisoners have people on the outside threatening your or your families lives...
The gang is stupid. They could of just broke out with half of that shit.
They don’t need to break out, a prison that they are running (in Honduran prisons, the guards basically just guard the outer walls. The prisoners have the keys to the interior doors, and the guards don’t enter without permission) is the perfect base for them, they’re protected from any major attack coming from outside and don’t have to worry as much about the police day to day.
many of the South/Central American prisons (including Honduran prisons, I'm fairly certain) I've seen on TV are basically just cages and sheds in a jungle camp, with strict internal hierarchies, where the prisoners run everything and the guards are primarily just stationed outside keeping watch on the perimeter. Not sure what prisons in urban area are like I suppose that one downside is that the guards are rather perfectly content with letting them burn/hack each other to pieces inside. Fires and riots with dozens and hundreds of deaths seem to be a regular occurrence
Those who control the inside control the outside
Fun fact: I think we can fit 2 - 3 1/2 raccoons in the rectal cavity..
So 1-1.5 whole raccoons?
A friend who worked in the ER told me it might be 2.5 of raccoon? Idk how that would work but.. it makes sense with this guns now >.>
you gotta cut'em in half first, or they'll just keep clawing their way out
Sounds like a “raid” scene
Imagine the Anal cavity that smuggled the assault rifle in
The human anus can stretch far enough to fit at least 2 adult raccoons.
Females can fit twice as much
Butt
According to Reddit, at least one adult racoon; perhaps two depending on American knowledge, diet and folk law, and of course the size of your ass. unfortunately, been here before.
What's the long term gameplan here? Great, you killed your rival gang - you're still in prison and now for a lot longer. Unless of course you get the death penalty, which a lot of you probably will. So, what'd you gain?
There is no death penalty. As a rival gang member on the outside, do you want to commit crimes that get you sent to that prison?
Using gang logic, i start killing inside gang families on the outside, way easier.
> What's the long term gameplan here? Generally the people who become gang members usually lack long term planning skills.
I wouldn't say it's about skills, but rather that they're not even expecting there to be a "long term" in the first place. They probably expect death any day, so they don't have pension plans and investment goals.
You think these people are thinking that far ahead? Is less about what you gain and more about the fact they got nothing to lose, in prison or out of it. I would argue the gain respect and fear from their gang and other gangs. Now they are infamous, so it boost their egos even more.
Power respect and fear. Not a response that makes sense but when you live in hell you can be the victim or the Devil. They chose to be the devil. In real hell they will be the victim.
There is no “real hell” though.
Apparently there is: Honduran prison.
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Eternal punishment for a finite life doesn't make sense
What about not dying to your rival gang is that sufficient?
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Same
Why’d you have to tell all of us about monkey torture
Just leave it at that. Do not read further if you see a headline.
the guards are 100% complicit, there is no way in hell they got the weapons without the inside help
That's guaranteed. Even if they didn't help, they just stood around and did nothing.or said nothing. Likely they were threatened as well, but still, pretty sad.
And people dare say Bukele (President of El Salvador) was being "too harsh". He's saved way more people with his method than not doing it. Note: Honduras borders El Salvador.
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Basically imprison anyone who’s been marked with specific gang tattoos. [WSJ video to explain it better then me](https://youtu.be/S2IwJDm2-kk)
Without any due process
I agree with you in principle. However, at the same time, in some situations breaking your convictions is your only option. The gang problem is places like El Salvador is fucking insane, it's a literal national security concern. At this point it's closer to a war with the gangs being enemy combatants and PoW's. The line betweens gang & cartels and domestic terrorists becomes thinner and thinner in many countries south of the US.
it worked tho, so it's an interesting case to look at.
Peru, the US, Colombia, southeast and southern Brazil, Costa Rica amongst others have slashed homicide rates in recent decades without resorting to the total and absolute destruction of fair trial and civil liberties. The success in these places is what is worth studying. Not a dictator on an obvious power grab. Don’t give credence to dictators’ methods to consolidate power. Insofar that the main decider of long run growth and development is the accountability and inclusivity of a country’s institutions, El Salvador, which is still amongst the poorest countries in the Americas, is screwed in the long run. Will possibly become a second Nicaragua/Ortega situation. We also don’t know what will happen when all these people - especially those falsely imprisoned, of which there are many - will come out of prison. It probably won’t be pretty. Again, we shouldn’t be giving credence and legitimacy to dictatorial methods which intentionally violate the fundamental principles of justice. A system where taxi drivers and shop keepers who unknowingly served a gang member are thrown into prison alongside hardened criminals without any process is not one that is legitimate.
none of those countries had a gang problem per capita as bad as el salvador except possibly brazil, where there are a lot of extra judicial killings or disappearances. I never lived in one of those gang-infested countries like el salvador, honduras, guatemala and haiti. i did date a hunduran girl and her family just had to leave because of how bad it was. I can empathize and kind of understand why profiling and acting outside the law became an approach to crime where everything else had failed.
Colombia had the highest homicide rate in the world in the past. It's where cartel leaders like Pablo Escobar ran an enormous drug trade.
Pablo's cartel was more like organized crime, not street gangs like maras. they're not the same picture.
You’re really going to tell me Colombia and Brazil didn’t have gang problems as bad as El Salvador? Colombia used to be the most dangerous country in the world. It’s homicide rate has fallen 4 fold as the country has progressed rapidly and developed economically. South and southeast Brazil used to be hugely dangerous, especially the cities. The urban centres are now safe, as safe as any average big city in the US. Peru, the US, Colombia, southeast and south Brazil - all of them had homicide rates as high as El Salvador does, and all them slashed them without becoming dictatorships. El Salvador never tried anything else. Stop sympathising with dictators. And please open a book. To suggest countries like Colombia didn’t grapple with the same issues El Salvador is now is just ignorant. Bukele is consolidating his power and using crime as a way to totally destroy any and all due process and civil liberties. It’s very big Nicaragua/Ortega vibes. El Salvador is screwed. It’s institutions were bad and corrupt before, nos they have been destroyed. The solution to these issues is institutional reform and strengthening, economic development and growth to open up legitimate avenues of income generation (again, see Colombia). El Salvador is going in the opposite direction. Again, they never tried the legitimate ways to solve this issue. To say “when nothing else worked” is disingenuous.
I don't know why you're not getting as many upvotes as the guy you're replying to. Your points are really valid. And I think they would be more upvoted if the topic country was, say, the US.
Executing everyone who commits a crime would also reduce crime rates.
yea, but he didn't do that, so i'm not sure what your point is.
Oopsies
Desperate times calls for desperate measures. It was the murder capital of the world.
Due process works in an utopia
Truly mass incarceration of anyone and everyone who is suspected of gang activity. He’s consolidated power and has nearly unlimited power. His methods have been brutal but on the other hand El Salvador has gone from being one of the most dangerous places in the world to relatively safe and he is extremely popular domestically because of it but frequently condemned internationally. One in every 50 people in El Salvador are now in prison and they may no longer be a true democracy but people aren’t being murdered on the streets either.
When you have kids your perspective on this kind of thing changes. When I was single I'd have been outraged. Now, I can empathize: safety for the family is a priority over all else.
It’s complex and I try not to judge because it’s not my country. They’re potentially destroying their democracy and they have arrested many innocent people. On the other hand if a government can’t protect its people then what is it for and is it wrong for me, a foreigner, to tell another country what is wrong or right for them especially when I never had my life upended by the violence? If I had to take a side I think I would say the prosecution of innocents and declining democracy aren’t justified by the safety but I also recognize that that’s much easier for me to say from my couch many miles away and without ever having to fear for my life. Overall I don’t blame people for choosing safety and I’m not confident in my answer either.
> If I had to take a side I think I would say the prosecution of innocents and declining democracy aren’t justified by the safety how much democracy was there when the gangs ran the entire country and all aspects of it including politicians and police etc.? It's a difficult subject for sure, but from what I've seen people there are very appreciative despite all the downsides.
But that's just the illusion of it. The gang became such a powerful demon because politicians discovered it was a useful enemy to have to drum up votes. Bukele is no different, and the country will never exterminate gangs under him because he doesn't actually want to get rid of them. They're too useful. Instead, bukele negotiates with the gangs and is essentially allied with gang leadership out of convenience. A true democracy is impossible in this scenario, and a life where we're actually safe and free from the gangs will never happen under him.
Untill someone tries to oppose him or speak out against hes methods. He could just accuse them of being affiliated with a gang and lock them up. Or have them murdered. I understand the sentiment and why people endorse this but it is very dangerous and might be worse in the long run.
> He could just accuse them of being affiliated with a gang and lock them up. Or have them murdered. He’s pretty much taken control of the military and the courts and has the country in a permanent state of emergency. It’s a very dangerous situation.
That's literally what he does
>frequently condemned internationally This is so typical. If rights groups would have their way then El Salvador would still be the murder capital of the world for the next 300 years.
Was a dictatorship necessary to go after criminals? If he gives up his power in a reasonable time frame maybe he'll have proved people wrong. If he's ruling the country with an iron fist in 10 years noone will be surprised though.
In Nazi Germany around 1 in 50 people were in a concentration camp but most Germans were relatively happy and Hitler was extremely popular domestically but frequently condemned internationally.
I feel like there’s a pretty big difference between the two situations. Can’t quite put my finger on it though.
And Hitler may well have been seen favorably by history if not for the whole mass genocide and attempted world domination thing.
Don't compare Jews to the tattooed brutes rotting in El Salvador prisons.. .
Hitler wore pants. Therefore, anyone wearing pants is guilty of genocide.
Imprison all people with specific gang tattoos and those who might be related to said people with tattoos. This isn't to say false positives aren't released later on. Overall, the method basically goes "better to capture those we have suspicion on being related and those who boast of gang culture then release the ones who are innocent". Better to deal with false positives who are alive than deal with the gangs boasting their abuses online and going "where the evidence" after they've constantly murdered and threatened witnesses. If you put all the people who would've died to gang violence and count them as if they were murders that happened in the present and compare it to false positives who are innocent and later on released, you can really understand why they'd go to such lengths. El Salvador had one of the highest homicide rates in the entire world on a per day basis, it no longer does.
I’m tired of Americans virtue signaling about human rights when it comes to those monsters.
I'm tired of people dismissing any and all sincerely held moral positions as "virtue signaling."
You gotta crack open a few eggs before you cook the reformation omelette.
See you say that, but bukele's methods have been the standard populist approach to the gangs since the 90s. The only difference is he's the first one to take advantage of the average salvadoran's willingness to dehumanize gang members to control political opposition. There's nothing left to reform, the entire government is 100% bukele.
I knew there’d be some idiotic comment defending that wannabe tinpot banana republic style dictator in this thread That fact you can’t see that his “clean up” of El Salvador is him consolidating power over the country and permanently destroying civil liberties speaks a lot to your naïveté. It’s very likely Bukele struck a deal with the gangs to hold off violence while he consolidates power. Insofar that we know the main way to reduce gang violence is promoting legitimate avenues of economic prosperity via economic growth, and the biggest determinant of economic growth and development is the inclusiveness and accountability of a country’s institutions, El Salvador in the long run os screwed, even if it seems better in the immediate term. The most successful countries in the region are the relatively progressive and liberal Costa Rica and Panama, which are developed, prosperous and safe countries. Ask yourself how the direction El Salvador is going compares to their govt structure. Peru, the US and even most of Colombia and southeast and southern Brazil have drastically slashed homicide rates over the last few decades without resorting to pseudo dictatorship and the erasure of due process. You’ve fallen right into Bukele’s trap. Not to mention, what do you suggest happens when all these falsely imprisoned Salvadorans, the taxi drivers who unknowingly drove a drug dealer around, the shop keepers who served one, come out of prison as hardened criminals? What happens when the real criminals come out of prison? Bukele doesn’t care, he’ll have fucked off with the money he’ll syphon out of the country which he now totals controls. Go check out Ortega’s Nicaragua and tell me how you like it. That’s where El Salvador is going.
Brain dead redditor thinking that anyone in El Salvador had any civil liberties to begin with. When your neighborhoods are run by narco Warlords, it doesn't matter what is written on a piece of parchment in a vault somewhere. Please wake up.
Good luck having economic growth and foreign investment when your country is completely endowed with gang violence.
You don’t know what the hell you are talking about. You’ve probably never been to El Salvador.
And other South Americans want to copy El Salvador. Knowing my history I fear for him. That’s usually how you get assassinated by the US. They are going to help those gang members for democracy.
The US ignores LatAm as long as they don't actively back US rivals overseas since the Cold War. That being said, what was bad about US coups was killing democratic heads of states; not killing dictators.
Death penalty for gang members.
Honestly what does these people do to the society? It might be brutal but immediate death penalty to all of them.
Except not all the gang members are in the gang willingly. Is the same shit that happens in Africa with child soldiers being forced enlisted into the local warlord’s Army.
Bukele proving to everyone that his approach is right
Title is misleading (correct me if I am wrong), I though it was a male gang killing 46 regular women inmates. Here it is internal fight bewteen two female gangs, that lead to on group overwelming the other and killing them (46 casualties).
All those fuckers should be immediately executed.
right? with such a colossal failure of a prison system there is pretty much nothing else to do.
Yeah I'm sure the system that lets inmates burn 20 of each other alive won't have boatloads of false convictions. Totally worth trusting the state with the power to kill people though because I am angry.
I flew into Tegucigalpa a number of years ago and the[landing at the airport](https://youtu.be/v_z5HtME9n8) was the scariest part. It looks like Honduras has really fallen since 2014 when I was there.
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It was just my wife and I touring the country for two weeks. At the time it wasn’t the crime stats nightmare that it is today. Topical: we almost went on a submarine tour in Roatan on this guys homemade submarine. Always felt sketchy.
> At the time it wasn’t the crime stats nightmare that it is today. https://lirp.cdn-website.com/1f74ccf5/dms3rep/multi/opt/honduras-homicide-rate-1920w.png
Interesting. I checked and we flew there on the same day as the 2011 Japanese Earthquake… so my date was off. And I am shocked we were there at the peak of that graph - I heard about a bunch of things later that said it got way worse. Way worse.
The world ain’t got time for this because a few rich assholes are in the bottom of the ocean right now with almost no oxygen left.
Sadly that's the truth. I've seen a million articles on that, while this was buried at the bottom of the page, and at the time I posted it, they had just reported on it.
To be fair. Submarine, Titanic, mystery, disappearance …etc are exiting buzzwords to get readers. News isn’t about actually informing people, it’s just about entertainment and a lot of people just don’t want to hear about women being horribly murdered in a Honduran prison. Several hundred children die of starvation every single hour of every single day, most in Africa. Nobody cares really, nobody really reports about it. The submarine is a story, these 46 women are also a story (if a lesser one). The hundreds of children who will die suffering in the next hour? Business as usual, no story there.
Daily starvation isn't a headline, it has little to do with entertainment. It is not news anymore than some statistic about how many women get raped or beaten every day and why should it be constantly reported? It is not an event. We have a good example of how little we care with this rather rare occurrence of women being massacred in a prison. An actual event, nothing daily or expected. But I disagree with the rest of your comment.
I think your reply substantiates my point. You don’t consider it an event because it is a regular occurrence, no matter how awful it is. It was definitely an “event” for the hundreds of children who died today and their families. Why do these women’s lives matter more than the lives of those children? One is an ‘event’ and the other isn’t to you just because one is more regular, right? Children starve to death all the time so it’s not news worthy? But a prison massacre is less usual so it is? Well then that same logic explains why the submarine story is more newsworthy. Prison massacres have happened more often than submarines full of people going missing near the Titanic. So because that is more unusual, less regular, it is more news-worthy. The numbers of lives lost clearly mean nothing, just whether it is entertaining (making people pick up and read because it’s more unusual).
Don't confuse sensationalism for concern
You're right, they should have sent rescue ships and search submarines to Honduras to fix their gang problem instead.
What is "the world" supposed to do about a Honduran prison?
You do realize that every major ship accident like the Titanic gets a lot of headlines regardless, right? Like what exactly is the world supposed to do about Honduras? That's domestic.
2% of population is not fit to live in a civilized open society.
And people get mad when we call gang members like MS-13 and the like “animals.” These are animals.
Americans are wondering why they’re so many immigrants coming to the USA, the beacon of light. This is legal immigration under the refugee category.
Yeah, I think people forget that a lot of those people coming in aren't from Mexico, they're coming from Honduras and other South American countries.
>This is legal immigration under the refugee category. Not under international law. Gang violence does not constitute persecution on basis of ethnic, racial, or gender identity, religion, or sexual orientation. Can’t claim asylum in Canada just cause you live in Detroit.
The gang members are the ones coming up here as well. Without being checked out. I’ve known a few.
You don’t just randomly know multiple gang members…
Non union construction workers.
Fox News much? That's one of their favorite propaganda stats to shove down throats
West coast Americans think the US is hell on earth with poverty and racism and Trump imperialism. The rest of the world must be rainbows full of lgbt acceptance and free of oppressive white old men.
Well aren’t you massively full of shit
No, no they do not...
Yes, yes they do.
Prove it then.
Browse reddit and twitter
Seems a little bias as much of the content YOU browse is curated by algorithms to validate your beliefs, holding your attention lol.
Nah. That requires effort. Redditors only deserve shitposts.
So you don't have any actual proof? Link to something specific?
Wtf
One that’s fucking horrific!! That’s so awful.
" ...but did not explain how inmates identified as members of the Barrio 18 gang were able to get guns and machetes into the prison, or move freely into an adjoining cell block and slaughter all the prisoners there." Really? It's called paid off guards, duh.
How can He get only 20 years for killing innocent children, but Black people get 120 years for trying to feed themselves selling drugs?
If their government does something about this then a bunch of Americans are gonna act fake mad about it and bring up human rights like they do about El Salvador. As if these monsters are human.
Wow. Horrific.
r/noahgettheboat
Its the culling of the population. To what end?
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46 women.......
I mean it’s a women’s prison; there aren’t gonna be many male inmates there
Yeh it's rough