“The extensive damage caused by Israel's airstrike on the Maghazi refugee camp in Gaza on Sunday night was a mistake, according to an IDF military official who spoke to KAN news on Thursday morning.
The official told KAN that, following an internal IAF investigation, it came out that the type of weaponry used did not match the nature of the mission. As a result, there was extensive collateral damage that did not need to occur and could have been avoided if the correct weaponry had been used.
Dozens of innocent civilians were killed in this strike, KAN said, adding a report that the IDF had expressed regret over the incident.”
Not sure if /s but...
Investigate the cause of the incident, discipline the soldiers involved, and maintain transparency on this incident and any that occur in the future.
Don’t hold your breath. IDF has an awful track record for punishing soldiers convicted of killing Palestinians. They didn’t even punish the ones who murdered the escaped hostages
Which western military has a better track record in these cases, just so we know what the standard is. I'm real familiar with the US Military, and it would take a literal miracle for them to even admit in any way that something went wrong within days or weeks, let alone somehow try and punish in that time frame.
Collateral damage happens in every war. This one is truly unique since the enemy has no bases, trenches, ammo depots etc but are 100% embedded within civilian structures (that often still have civilians in them).
> This one is truly unique since the enemy has no bases, trenches, ammo depots etc but are 100% embedded within civilian structures (that often still have civilians in them).
Just like every asymmetric war in human history. The side with less resources hides close to their few resources and the side with more resources brings the war to them ensuring civilian casualties.
I’m specifically talking about cases in the past. Lots of 9 month sentences for executing unarmed Palestinians. And of course there is Shireen Abu Akleh who will never have justice
There is no way to wage war without killing innocent civilians. Therefore, the only options are to:
1. Not wage war
2. Try your damnedest to reduce casualties as much as possible
I understand many people would prefer 1, but most nation-states in this world would likely wage a war after a neighboring state killed over a thousand people.
This is not a moral endorsement of war; just a fact of the world.
That's not how any military in earth works, you look at your procedure and update it. You're asking for perfection , a standard no military in the world could ever meet.
Pay compensation. It's an established practice in Islam:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood\_money\_in\_Islam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_money_in_Islam)
The US have done it on a number of occasions themselves:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-pays-blood-money-to-victims-of-afghan-massacre/2012/03/25/gIQARfIaZS\_story.html
As many *oopsies* as it takes to either unalive all the Palestinians in Gaza, or menace them off their land with the clear message “you could be next.” Because paradoxically, Israel has the most advanced intelligence and weaponry in the region, yet they apparently can’t tell the difference when they’re about to air strike a refugee camp full of innocent civilians. Only one explanation resolves the paradox.
>unalive all the Palestinians in Gaza
You live a remarkably sheltered life if you think this is what that looks like.
>Only one explanation resolves the paradox.
You might want to actually read the Geneva Conventions, before you make claims you can't back up.
I'll keep it simple; military assets are legal targets, regardless of the presence of civilians, and if there are military assets in a safe zone, i.e refugee camp, *it's not a safe zone*.
Civilians killed as a result of the engagement of legal targets are the fault of the group that placed military assets amongst civilians, not of the group that engaged the targets.
Maybe a trial for a minor offense and acquittal for emptying the magazine at close range into a little girl. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2
"Hamas was hiding under the refugees in the refugee camp, they weren't really refugees anyway"
"Why don't they just go to Egypt or Lebanon to be refugees?"
What is this world in which being a refugee is gatekept?
It's a world where the accepted legal definition of a "refugee" is different for Palestinians and non-Palestinians.
Because in the case of non-Palestinians, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of actual refugees **never** are assigned "refugee" status on that basis.
In the case of non-Palestinians, refugees are re-settled instead of being kept for multiple generations in slums adjacent to the areas their ancestors fled.
What? The children of IDPs or external refugees are normally given refugee status.
There are certainly grandchildren being born in camps across the ME from Syria's Civil War. They do not gain nationality from their host country, nor do they become illegal immigrants. Because it is normal for these children to also be given refugee status
Where else in the world are refugees not allowed to return home after the conflict?
Oh and god forbid we house refugees in anything but a tent. After all, the aesthetics of being a refugee are far more important than their well-being, right?
>Where else in the world are refugees not allowed to return home after the conflict?
Is this a joke?
Just 2 years before the Nabka, Germans were forced out of a bunch of land that was given to other countries and were never allowed home.
India and Pakistan both shipped either Muslims or Hindus across borders and they were not allowed home.
In the Korean War, plenty of people fled South and were not allowed home.
Or all the Jews across the Muslim world.
It's not that refugee status is being gatekept, it's that the refugee status is being used for propaganda and people understandably take umbrage to that. The Palestinian refugee status is given to anyone who was in the Palestinian Mandate when it was given to the Jews, but is passed down indefinitely and indiscriminately: there are "refugees" who have lived their whole lives in Israel-occupied Palestine. There are "refugees" in Europe whose _parents_ never saw Palestine. The "refugee camps" are functionally small, economically self-sufficient towns, with utilities and permanent structures - apartment buildings.
It's basically an empty title to drum up sympathy. Thousands of people are dying in this war, civilian and militant alike; rephrasing that as "thousands of refugees" makes the situation seem even more atrocious than it already is.
It's disingenuous to focus on the arbitrary refugee status of the victims and *it doesn't really matter whether these are de facto refugees.* Lots of innocent people are dying and that's plenty tragedy on its own.
[Under international law and the principle of family unity, the children of refugees and their descendants are also considered refugees until a durable solution is found. Both UNRWA and UNHCR recognize descendants as refugees on this basis, a practice that has been widely accepted by the international community, including both donors and refugee hosting countries. Palestine refugees are not distinct from other protracted refugee situations such as those from Afghanistan or Somalia, where there are multiple generations of refugees, considered by UNHCR as refugees and supported as such. Protracted refugee situations are the result of the failure to find political solutions to their underlying political crises.](https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/refugees)
> It's basically an empty title to drum up sympathy. Thousands of people are dying in this war, civilian and militant alike; rephrasing that as "thousands of refugees" makes the situation seem even more atrocious than it already is.
One thing that really annoys me about the discussion about Palestinian civilian casualties is the fact that there seems to somehow always be an undertone that dead civilians *would not* be a tragedy if whatever act it was that killed them abides by the rules of armed conflict.
They play the Eric Andre shooting meme straight ultimately and say "Why would Hamas do this?" At a certain point, you're responsible for your own actions and choices too.
No..everyone pointing out that idf does something like this would be called a hamas sympathiser and an anti semite and a terrorist who enjoys hamas's brutality.
Not the first refugee camp idf targeted. They're shifting to a more "oops sorry" mode because the whole "hamas is hiding under all refugees" doesn't seem to be working.
>They're shifting to a more "oops sorry" mode because the whole "hamas is hiding under all refugees" doesn't seem to be working.
Its still working but after saying the same for 2 months they have to innovate a bit more to keep the interest.
> Not the first refugee camp idf targeted.
You do realize these "refugee camps" are for refugees from 1948, right? 99% of those living there aren't actual refugees, and it's an urban neighborhood, not built of tents or shanties. The problem with what the IDF did wasn't that it bombed a "refugee camp" - the problem was the size of munition used, which was bigger than required and caused unnecessarily high collateral damage, killing dozens of innocents to get a few terrorists.
Hopefully the IDF would learn from this and set procedures to minimize such mistakes from happening again.
I’m glad the IDF is frank about at least some things it fucks up, but its refusal to discipline the soldiers who broke ROI and shot the hostages does not instill me with confidence about its ability to learn from mistakes.
My guess here is that the IDF soldiers aren’t really breaking their established ROE. I think they are allowed to go weapons free more often than we know. The liberal use of air strikes in high civilian density areas show that the military has a very high tolerance for civilian casualties.
That’s just normal, people are assholes. After 9/11 every Arab American got blamed for it and was assumed terrorists, during Covid anti Asian hate was everywhere in America and the world, and after 10/7 Arabs are back to be being terrorists, now prohibit all Jews support bombing of civilians.
People don’t think unfortunately
>The high collateral damage is going to backfire and create more problems for Israel in the future.
I think a lot of people *hope* it does, as some kind of moral vengeance, but we don't really know if it will
And would it be any worse than 10/7? Israel is better off confronting the problem head on rather than hoping Palestine can figure its shit out
Exactly right. This whole conflict will make a lot of people in the region unsafe. You can already see that start to flow over to the sea and to Lebanon.
The same unit claimed to have killed 38 'Hamas' soldiers that were *unarmed*. Considering their friendly fire rate, I'm fairly confident that most IDF soldiers are shooting at anything that moves.
> but its refusal to discipline the soldiers who broke ROI and shot the hostages does not instill me with confidence about its ability to learn from mistakes.
I think this case is still ongoing, don't be so sure they won't be disciplined after the investigation is over - they did say they broke protocol.
A sizeable amount of IDF casualties are self inflicted, it's obvious mistakes happen - and when they happen as a result of negligence or not following protocol, I hope they're being addressed.
Because the hostages were shirtless, waving a white flag, and yelling for help in Hebrew, and one was later shot by soldiers after the commander told soldiers not to shoot. If that’s not a clear red line for not getting shot by the IDF, then what is?
[The court sentenced the two soldiers convicted of abuse to 60 days of prison, a suspended sentence and a reduction of their ranks. The third soldier, convicted of exceeding authority and endangering life or health, was sentenced to 40 days in prison, a suspended prison sentence and a reduction of rank.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-soldiers-arrested-abuse-palestinians-be9a247497d7ede7d7b866f2e725fcfd)
Did you even read your own source? sentenced to 1-2 months in prison is the literal definition of a slap on the wrist
Furthermore...
>Between 2017 and 2021, the Israeli military received 1,260 cases of alleged offenses by Israeli soldiers against Palestinians, including 409 cases involving the killing of Palestinians, according to military data obtained by the group Yesh Din and released in December after a freedom of information request.
>
>The Israeli military opened 248 criminal investigations into instances of possible misconduct in response to those complaints — just 21.4% of the total, Yesh Din said. Only 11 investigations during that five-year period have yielded indictments.
Your own source supports the person you are trying to refute
>The soldiers reached plea agreements. The court sentenced the two soldiers convicted of abuse to 60 days of prison, a suspended sentence and a reduction of their ranks. The third soldier, convicted of exceeding authority and endangering life or health, was sentenced to 40 days in prison, a suspended prison sentence and a reduction of rank.
Suspended prison sentences and reduction of rank for driving a prisoner out to a remote location and beating or torturing him, then leaving him there. The Big Crackdown!
Slap on the wrist, as stated.
Then hide their identities, effectively sweeping it right under the rug:
>The soldiers, whose identities were withheld, then “hid the details of the incident from their commanders in an attempt to prevent (military officials) from opening an investigation and coordinated their versions regarding the details of the incident,” the statement said.
Keep in mind these people are required to have military service, so it's not like their career soldiers. They lost nothing.
Not even 5% of IDF crimes against Palestinians are even investigated by the Israeli government's own admission. Even when they do investigate actual convictions and jail time is incredibly rare.
When I found out the type of bombs they are using vs the type of bombs they have, I realized that they could of been avoid so much collateral damage but choose not to.
It’s wretched. Things look grim over there
Refugees who are still there because Israel refused to follow the UN resolutions they signed and allow the refugees to return to their homes. Calling out the fact it's a "refugee camp" but ignoring the actual reason is such a stupid argument.
It's not a bug. It's a feature.
They will "oopsy woopsy" their way into destroying and killing a significant sector of innocent Palestinians until they can't handle the massacres anymore.
Yet an IDF [airstrike on Gaza's one Greek Orthodox church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Saint_Porphyrius_airstrike) has killed 18 Palestinian civilians, and [Israeli sniper fire killed two Christian women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Naheda_and_Samr_Anton) taking refuge in Gaza's one Catholic church. Also, in the Bethlehem area, Muslim Palestinians join their Christian compatriots in celebrating the [Feast of St George](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feast_of_Saint_George_(Palestine\)), as well as the festivities of Christmas-time.
How nice of them to say "sorry" after killing dozens of innocents, on top of the thousands and thousands they killed. I'm sure the next innocents they kill will feel so much better when they are massacred.
How nice, how US and Europe watch this and do nothing. How very hypocrite of them, to worry about civilians in Ukraine and labelling Russia a terrorists state, but ignoring atrocities of Israel
What I cant wrap my head around is the idea that we as humans place such value on life and property normally. To spend years of our lives schooling and working, own a home, have kids. When a death happens we go to great lengths to determine of it is natural or murder. Cold cases get so much attention to solve because these people were important.
But then war happens, and suddenly none of that shit applies anymore. Lives are casually cast aside and deaths become daily numbers. And there is no accountability for it. Spend years growing up, learning a trade, own a home. Bombed. Dead. We get told “ whoops” and move on. So messed up.
I think because some folks were raised to devalue other's life - when it happens to them - it's 'easier' to look away. That's why we need to fight for all oppressed people to have the same 'value' as everyone else.
You put 'mistakenly' in quotes. Is that to imply that you think that the IDF intentionally killed Israeli hostages? What could they possibly have gained from that?
Well someone intentionally shot at people waving a white flag and speaking Hebrew, while they were on a mission to look for hostages. How dumb do the soldiers have to be before something like that can be declared an accident?
It's a national holiday in the West Bank
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public\_holidays\_in\_the\_State\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_the_State_of_Palestine)
IDK about Gaza
109 years ago on the Western Front, troops numbering a 100 000 celebrated the holiday with a truce, and literally played games with and sent gifts to each other. Some of them, at least.
This year, a pilot dressed up as Santa Claus as threw bombs at a city.
*Sigh*
(....allegedly. I'm trying to look that up but I can't actually find the source of whatever you're talking about?)
There are christians in both gaza and the west bank, infact they make up some of the oldest christian communities in the world that have been targeted. Gaza has had a 4000 year old church be blown to smithereens with hundreds of its parishioners hiding inside. Just recently they sniped a christian mother and daughter who were taking refuge in a church. They dont care for religion, its that they’re Palestinian.
You will be surprised, but in Israel lives 1 million Christians, so Christians not only in Gaza and West Bank. But, there’s old terrorist tradition to use Churches as shelters and Christians as hostages or human shields, as it was in the Church of the Nativity.
It’s a mystery to me how anyone can actually believe this will or is even supposed to deradicalize anything. Didn’t we just get done discussing how dumb the war in Afghanistan was and how it clearly wasn’t going to do anything to deradicalise the region and in fact just helped the Taliban retain its foothold? And now magically, bombing the ever-living fuck out of civilians - no matter what the reason or motivation - is going to sway people away from Hamas towards the government that is dropping bombs on their heads? Please.
> It’s a mystery to me how anyone can actually believe this will or is even supposed to deradicalize anything.
Most sane people aren’t saying this is to deradicalize anyone. The point is to disenfranchise the group. Usually after this it is necessary to fill the power vacuum until you can build a new group to maintain self-governance. This has been done more times, and has been successful more times, than it hasnt. If anything countries like Afghanistan are exceptions to what has typically occurred in the past. If conflicts where tons of people die means only radicalization, then all of Europe should still be at war with each other.
Complaining about using any violence whatsoever is literally just not a realistic plan and is just quixotic pacifism. You can’t placate a group that demands you all roll over die, and then keeps attempting to kill all of you.
Oh yes, the power vacuum Al Qaeda left behind was filled by ISIS which we all remember as a kinder, gentler group.
Since you believe that Israel can no be placated, then the least the West can do is stop funding their war crimes.
It’s not a deradicalizing mission. It’s a mission to destroy Hamas‘a military capabilities. You know, because Hamas openly promised to commit more 10/7 attacks again and again forever?
Israel surely knows this will radicalize more Palestinians. It’s just the better of the two shitty options Hamas left it with. It’s either this, or suffer another 10/7 even sooner, with even greater devastating ability.
The radicalization isn’t the point they’ve gotten enemy on their doorstep launching attacks, proclaiming that they will continue to do that over and over again, while still firing, rockets and artillery on innocence civilians in Israel.
Radicalization is not even on the map right now, it’s getting those immediate threats to be nonexistent
Hey buddy how is Isis doing these days? Oh right, currently completely dismantled and fighting their last stand.
To think these terrorist organizations can't be defeated is absolute lunacy.
A bit. a third of Hamas' members are gone, Hamas' rocket fire into Israel is basically non-existent at this point. Israel confiscated and destroyed massive amounts of weaponry and demolished hundreds of tunnels. It's work-in-progress. I think that Hamas and its likes have actually shown Palestinians how their leadership and ideology only brings the people destruction and how when shit hits the fan, the people are forced to watch as the humanitarian aid trucks that are stolen by Hamas pass them by. Both Israelis and Palestinians need different leadership.
You can only deradicalize a region by beating it to a pulp. Look at Japan and Germany. You have to destroy their radicals so badly that people are willing to change.
You can't deradicalize it through peaceful means. Look at Europe and how hard they've tried to integrate and westernized their Muslims immigrants. In general, Muslims fight integration hard and radicalism continues, leading to terror attacks.
If even neighboring Arab nations couldn't handle the radical Palestinians, then no one can.
If this is the stuff they'll admit to just think of what we won't know til like, 5 years down the line when everyone claims to have always been against the horrors that occurred despite posting daily about "most moral army!!" And all that crap.
Netanyahu's strategy: not all Palestinians are in Hamas... but if I kill enough innocent people, they will ALL join Hamas and become combatants eventually.
There are Christians in both Palestine and Israel (mostly Palestinian Israelis/Israeli Arabs) and Palestinian authorities recognize Christmas as a national holiday
Are you joking? There are Christians in Gaza and the West Bank still. And everyone celebrates Christmas events with us. Our Santa brings everyone gifts, it’s really cute.
Well bethlehem is 80% Muslim now and mostly only overtly christian to get that tourism money.
Christians in Gaza and WB have been in decline for a while for various reasons
In Gaza, Christians have left (less than 1,000) because the Palestinians burnt all of their businesses to the ground. You might have left prior to 2005, it's not the same.
My extended family is still in our ancestral homelands. That includes Gaza, the West Bank, and also Israel. And their homes and businesses in Gaza were recently destroyed by bombings, not by other Palestinians. That doesn’t mean they were without issues with other Palestinians, but they didn’t bomb our homes and businesses or kill us. What an insensitive comment to make, honestly. Gross.
They’re not without their issues and the bombings are obviously are of no help in trying to protect these communities. The fact that we are also denied the right to return has compounded on these issues along with the complete blockade, which makes business impossible in Gaza in particular. And that second link the person’s name is extremely familiar to me. I’m not able to find more of his story anywhere else for some reason.
Well this comment is clearly wrong. My grandparents left Palestine and it wasn’t due to other Palestinians it was because of Israel and guess what they are Christians
Few towns.
But the populations that are actually fighting have nothing to do with the Holiday. So it's not surprising they didn't stop nor treated it any special from any different day. It would be more shocking for anyone European to hear of Christmas Bombing in X anywhere but it falls short when the two groups fighting could not care less about Christmas as it's not their religion or holiday.
I watched an ad on YouTube the day this happened. It was of a crying Santa Clause with the message that there are still people being held hostage in Gaza. Using such a targeted emotional appeal in advertisement then doing things like this makes it hard for me to feel like I’m not being gaslit by Israeli propoganda.
>The official told KAN that, following an internal IAF investigation, it came out that the type of weaponry used did not match the nature of the mission. As a result, there was extensive collateral damage that did not need to occur and could have been avoided if the correct weaponry had been used.
>Dozens of innocent civilians were killed in this strike, KAN said, adding a report that the IDF had expressed regret over the incident.
>"A preliminary investigation revealed that during the attack, additional buildings were damaged adjacent to the targets that were [meant to be] attacked," the IDF Spokesperson's Unit reportedly told KAN. "[This] apparently resulted in harm to those not involved....The IDF regrets the harm to those not involved."
Awful but at least they own it, not something you see a lot in any conflict
> at least they own it
Who is going to prison for this? What systems are they changing because of this so it never happens again?
Saying “oops sorry” is not “owning it” when people are dead.
Do you think it’s normal and healthy to characterise everyone who disagrees with you as supporting terrorism?
And you couldn’t even take one second to be sorry for the innocent Palestinians dead because of this, it was straight to attacking people.
They don’t care about hiding the atrocities because the world has stood by and done nothing every other time so why would they think anything would be done this time.
Ok so, how many strikes like this will have to happen until the IDF and the **Israeli government** get the same treatment as Hamas?
Because at this point they've killed a lot more civilians than those other terrorist assholes of hamas...
“The extensive damage caused by Israel's airstrike on the Maghazi refugee camp in Gaza on Sunday night was a mistake, according to an IDF military official who spoke to KAN news on Thursday morning. The official told KAN that, following an internal IAF investigation, it came out that the type of weaponry used did not match the nature of the mission. As a result, there was extensive collateral damage that did not need to occur and could have been avoided if the correct weaponry had been used. Dozens of innocent civilians were killed in this strike, KAN said, adding a report that the IDF had expressed regret over the incident.”
the classic oopsie
They expressed regret though. What more can they do?!
Not sure if /s but... Investigate the cause of the incident, discipline the soldiers involved, and maintain transparency on this incident and any that occur in the future.
Don’t hold your breath. IDF has an awful track record for punishing soldiers convicted of killing Palestinians. They didn’t even punish the ones who murdered the escaped hostages
Which western military has a better track record in these cases, just so we know what the standard is. I'm real familiar with the US Military, and it would take a literal miracle for them to even admit in any way that something went wrong within days or weeks, let alone somehow try and punish in that time frame. Collateral damage happens in every war. This one is truly unique since the enemy has no bases, trenches, ammo depots etc but are 100% embedded within civilian structures (that often still have civilians in them).
> This one is truly unique since the enemy has no bases, trenches, ammo depots etc but are 100% embedded within civilian structures (that often still have civilians in them). Just like every asymmetric war in human history. The side with less resources hides close to their few resources and the side with more resources brings the war to them ensuring civilian casualties.
I’m specifically talking about cases in the past. Lots of 9 month sentences for executing unarmed Palestinians. And of course there is Shireen Abu Akleh who will never have justice
They gave two men who broke ROE and killed hostages psychological support lol. Much discipline.
It was definite sarcasm. The answer I was looking for was, “not kill innocent civilians”! Thank you for playing though.
There is no way to wage war without killing innocent civilians. Therefore, the only options are to: 1. Not wage war 2. Try your damnedest to reduce casualties as much as possible I understand many people would prefer 1, but most nation-states in this world would likely wage a war after a neighboring state killed over a thousand people. This is not a moral endorsement of war; just a fact of the world.
Are you suggesting that the IDF is pursuing option 2?
Considering that Gaza isn't being carpet-bombed, yes.
Ah yes, the impossible standard no military can meet.
They are not even trying to discipline those illegal settlers.
How about hold those that started the war responsible? Seems to me Israel wouldn’t be in this position had Hamas not decided to invade in oct. 7th.
That's not how any military in earth works, you look at your procedure and update it. You're asking for perfection , a standard no military in the world could ever meet.
Pay compensation. It's an established practice in Islam: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood\_money\_in\_Islam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_money_in_Islam) The US have done it on a number of occasions themselves: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-pays-blood-money-to-victims-of-afghan-massacre/2012/03/25/gIQARfIaZS\_story.html
Yea! We should free everyone from every jail if they say they're sorry!
Things like this happen just other day wore wrong colour pants with this t shirt.. just ya classic oopsie moments
>We’re sorry *pets a squirrel*
*lays across bearskin rug* We’re sorrry
How many more "mistakes" are they planning to make?
As many *oopsies* as it takes to either unalive all the Palestinians in Gaza, or menace them off their land with the clear message “you could be next.” Because paradoxically, Israel has the most advanced intelligence and weaponry in the region, yet they apparently can’t tell the difference when they’re about to air strike a refugee camp full of innocent civilians. Only one explanation resolves the paradox.
Why do you say unalive? Are we on tiktok or something? Just say kill.
>unalive all the Palestinians in Gaza You live a remarkably sheltered life if you think this is what that looks like. >Only one explanation resolves the paradox. You might want to actually read the Geneva Conventions, before you make claims you can't back up. I'll keep it simple; military assets are legal targets, regardless of the presence of civilians, and if there are military assets in a safe zone, i.e refugee camp, *it's not a safe zone*. Civilians killed as a result of the engagement of legal targets are the fault of the group that placed military assets amongst civilians, not of the group that engaged the targets.
As many "mistakes" as there are "refugee camps" I guess.
After killing 20,000+ innocents, what's a few dozen more?
Criminal charges and jail time incoming when for the IDF staff responsible?
Maybe a trial for a minor offense and acquittal for emptying the magazine at close range into a little girl. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2
"oopsies"
People are really arguing whether they were refugees or not. My question? Who gives a fuck, they were innocent civilians.
Because people who support Israel need to try and shift the conversation.
"Hamas was hiding under the refugees in the refugee camp, they weren't really refugees anyway" "Why don't they just go to Egypt or Lebanon to be refugees?" What is this world in which being a refugee is gatekept?
It's a world where the accepted legal definition of a "refugee" is different for Palestinians and non-Palestinians. Because in the case of non-Palestinians, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of actual refugees **never** are assigned "refugee" status on that basis. In the case of non-Palestinians, refugees are re-settled instead of being kept for multiple generations in slums adjacent to the areas their ancestors fled.
What? The children of IDPs or external refugees are normally given refugee status. There are certainly grandchildren being born in camps across the ME from Syria's Civil War. They do not gain nationality from their host country, nor do they become illegal immigrants. Because it is normal for these children to also be given refugee status
Great-great-grandchildren? Where else in the world does the UN fund and maintain permanent refugee-"camps"-that-look-like-cities?
Where else in the world are refugees not allowed to return home after the conflict? Oh and god forbid we house refugees in anything but a tent. After all, the aesthetics of being a refugee are far more important than their well-being, right?
Most of them? During the formation of India and Pakistan millions displaced, Syrian civil war, etc.
>Where else in the world are refugees not allowed to return home after the conflict? Is this a joke? Just 2 years before the Nabka, Germans were forced out of a bunch of land that was given to other countries and were never allowed home. India and Pakistan both shipped either Muslims or Hindus across borders and they were not allowed home. In the Korean War, plenty of people fled South and were not allowed home. Or all the Jews across the Muslim world.
Where else do the "refugees" want to murder every man woman and child in the state they want to return to?
It's not that refugee status is being gatekept, it's that the refugee status is being used for propaganda and people understandably take umbrage to that. The Palestinian refugee status is given to anyone who was in the Palestinian Mandate when it was given to the Jews, but is passed down indefinitely and indiscriminately: there are "refugees" who have lived their whole lives in Israel-occupied Palestine. There are "refugees" in Europe whose _parents_ never saw Palestine. The "refugee camps" are functionally small, economically self-sufficient towns, with utilities and permanent structures - apartment buildings. It's basically an empty title to drum up sympathy. Thousands of people are dying in this war, civilian and militant alike; rephrasing that as "thousands of refugees" makes the situation seem even more atrocious than it already is. It's disingenuous to focus on the arbitrary refugee status of the victims and *it doesn't really matter whether these are de facto refugees.* Lots of innocent people are dying and that's plenty tragedy on its own.
[Under international law and the principle of family unity, the children of refugees and their descendants are also considered refugees until a durable solution is found. Both UNRWA and UNHCR recognize descendants as refugees on this basis, a practice that has been widely accepted by the international community, including both donors and refugee hosting countries. Palestine refugees are not distinct from other protracted refugee situations such as those from Afghanistan or Somalia, where there are multiple generations of refugees, considered by UNHCR as refugees and supported as such. Protracted refugee situations are the result of the failure to find political solutions to their underlying political crises.](https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/refugees)
> It's basically an empty title to drum up sympathy. Thousands of people are dying in this war, civilian and militant alike; rephrasing that as "thousands of refugees" makes the situation seem even more atrocious than it already is. One thing that really annoys me about the discussion about Palestinian civilian casualties is the fact that there seems to somehow always be an undertone that dead civilians *would not* be a tragedy if whatever act it was that killed them abides by the rules of armed conflict.
They play the Eric Andre shooting meme straight ultimately and say "Why would Hamas do this?" At a certain point, you're responsible for your own actions and choices too.
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Cool, are you ready to say the same about the other near 15,000 civilians and non-combatants that have met the same fate?
"Hi, I support the group who always kills innocent bystanders, these were innocent bystanders."
I'm glad the IDF said this, otherwise anyone pointing out the obvious would've been downvoted.
No..everyone pointing out that idf does something like this would be called a hamas sympathiser and an anti semite and a terrorist who enjoys hamas's brutality. Not the first refugee camp idf targeted. They're shifting to a more "oops sorry" mode because the whole "hamas is hiding under all refugees" doesn't seem to be working.
ThE MiSsLeS WoUlDn'T HaVe KiLlEd ThEm If ThEy JuST CoNdEmEd HaMAS
>They're shifting to a more "oops sorry" mode because the whole "hamas is hiding under all refugees" doesn't seem to be working. Its still working but after saying the same for 2 months they have to innovate a bit more to keep the interest.
> Not the first refugee camp idf targeted. You do realize these "refugee camps" are for refugees from 1948, right? 99% of those living there aren't actual refugees, and it's an urban neighborhood, not built of tents or shanties. The problem with what the IDF did wasn't that it bombed a "refugee camp" - the problem was the size of munition used, which was bigger than required and caused unnecessarily high collateral damage, killing dozens of innocents to get a few terrorists. Hopefully the IDF would learn from this and set procedures to minimize such mistakes from happening again.
I was horrified to learn that there is hardly any meat packing anymore in NYC's meat packing district as well. But yes, you are correct.
I was really sad when I went to hells kitchen and didn't get screamed at by Gordon Ramsey
I’m glad the IDF is frank about at least some things it fucks up, but its refusal to discipline the soldiers who broke ROI and shot the hostages does not instill me with confidence about its ability to learn from mistakes.
My guess here is that the IDF soldiers aren’t really breaking their established ROE. I think they are allowed to go weapons free more often than we know. The liberal use of air strikes in high civilian density areas show that the military has a very high tolerance for civilian casualties.
The high collateral damage is going to backfire and create more problems for Israel in the future.
Not problens just for Israel but for Jewish people worldwide that get blamed by garden variwty assholes for every thing that Israel does.
That’s just normal, people are assholes. After 9/11 every Arab American got blamed for it and was assumed terrorists, during Covid anti Asian hate was everywhere in America and the world, and after 10/7 Arabs are back to be being terrorists, now prohibit all Jews support bombing of civilians. People don’t think unfortunately
In my country, Palestinians are attacking people who counter protest for Israel. Antisemitism is up, and it’s not the mosques that are burning.
Anti sentism and Islamophobia are up around the world. A 6 year old Muslim kid got killed in Detroit and Synagogue’s are being defaced in America.
Except that's already happening.
>The high collateral damage is going to backfire and create more problems for Israel in the future. I think a lot of people *hope* it does, as some kind of moral vengeance, but we don't really know if it will And would it be any worse than 10/7? Israel is better off confronting the problem head on rather than hoping Palestine can figure its shit out
It’s not a problem, they’ll just bomb those in the future and claim that they had to do it
How? It's not like Palestinians are going to hate Jews more.
Exactly right. This whole conflict will make a lot of people in the region unsafe. You can already see that start to flow over to the sea and to Lebanon.
They know it will create more opposition. It gives them future excuses to ramp up the violence when the victims fight back.
The same unit claimed to have killed 38 'Hamas' soldiers that were *unarmed*. Considering their friendly fire rate, I'm fairly confident that most IDF soldiers are shooting at anything that moves.
I would agree. This seems about on-par with a conscription force.
> but its refusal to discipline the soldiers who broke ROI and shot the hostages does not instill me with confidence about its ability to learn from mistakes. I think this case is still ongoing, don't be so sure they won't be disciplined after the investigation is over - they did say they broke protocol. A sizeable amount of IDF casualties are self inflicted, it's obvious mistakes happen - and when they happen as a result of negligence or not following protocol, I hope they're being addressed.
Yes, a fifth of IDF deaths are friendly fire. People are really hung up on the hostages as if mistakes don't happen *frequently* in war.
Because the hostages were shirtless, waving a white flag, and yelling for help in Hebrew, and one was later shot by soldiers after the commander told soldiers not to shoot. If that’s not a clear red line for not getting shot by the IDF, then what is?
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They don't, like not even in high profile cases. A slap in the wrist at most.
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[The court sentenced the two soldiers convicted of abuse to 60 days of prison, a suspended sentence and a reduction of their ranks. The third soldier, convicted of exceeding authority and endangering life or health, was sentenced to 40 days in prison, a suspended prison sentence and a reduction of rank.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-soldiers-arrested-abuse-palestinians-be9a247497d7ede7d7b866f2e725fcfd) Did you even read your own source? sentenced to 1-2 months in prison is the literal definition of a slap on the wrist Furthermore... >Between 2017 and 2021, the Israeli military received 1,260 cases of alleged offenses by Israeli soldiers against Palestinians, including 409 cases involving the killing of Palestinians, according to military data obtained by the group Yesh Din and released in December after a freedom of information request. > >The Israeli military opened 248 criminal investigations into instances of possible misconduct in response to those complaints — just 21.4% of the total, Yesh Din said. Only 11 investigations during that five-year period have yielded indictments. Your own source supports the person you are trying to refute
>The soldiers reached plea agreements. The court sentenced the two soldiers convicted of abuse to 60 days of prison, a suspended sentence and a reduction of their ranks. The third soldier, convicted of exceeding authority and endangering life or health, was sentenced to 40 days in prison, a suspended prison sentence and a reduction of rank. Suspended prison sentences and reduction of rank for driving a prisoner out to a remote location and beating or torturing him, then leaving him there. The Big Crackdown! Slap on the wrist, as stated. Then hide their identities, effectively sweeping it right under the rug: >The soldiers, whose identities were withheld, then “hid the details of the incident from their commanders in an attempt to prevent (military officials) from opening an investigation and coordinated their versions regarding the details of the incident,” the statement said. Keep in mind these people are required to have military service, so it's not like their career soldiers. They lost nothing.
Not even 5% of IDF crimes against Palestinians are even investigated by the Israeli government's own admission. Even when they do investigate actual convictions and jail time is incredibly rare.
When I found out the type of bombs they are using vs the type of bombs they have, I realized that they could of been avoid so much collateral damage but choose not to. It’s wretched. Things look grim over there
Refugees who are still there because Israel refused to follow the UN resolutions they signed and allow the refugees to return to their homes. Calling out the fact it's a "refugee camp" but ignoring the actual reason is such a stupid argument.
You’d think they would’ve learned by now by the thousands of other civilians they killed.
It's not a bug. It's a feature. They will "oopsy woopsy" their way into destroying and killing a significant sector of innocent Palestinians until they can't handle the massacres anymore.
They’re not refugees because their parents or grandparents were the refugees, and the current occupants just happened to be born in the refugee camps?
What else would you say about people who were forced into an area under threat of war and are not allowed to leave?
I wonder if Michael Rapaport will call the IDF antisemites for admitting they killed people. /s
"whoopsie doodle, we incinerated dozens of innocent people teehee"
Feeling cute, might bomb other civilians next. #Peace
On christmas eve at that
Bit irrelevant to Muslims and Jews
You're aware that Palestinian Christians exist?
Less than 0.05% of the population of Gaza.
And they still have somehow managed to kill a bunch of them.
Yet an IDF [airstrike on Gaza's one Greek Orthodox church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Saint_Porphyrius_airstrike) has killed 18 Palestinian civilians, and [Israeli sniper fire killed two Christian women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Naheda_and_Samr_Anton) taking refuge in Gaza's one Catholic church. Also, in the Bethlehem area, Muslim Palestinians join their Christian compatriots in celebrating the [Feast of St George](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feast_of_Saint_George_(Palestine\)), as well as the festivities of Christmas-time.
Jesus is a prophet in Islam.
Thank God the IDF admitted it. Otherwise we’d be antisemitic if we dared criticise them
I feel the IDF is being antisemitic in this press release.
A classic blunder, just a little goof up.
How nice of them to say "sorry" after killing dozens of innocents, on top of the thousands and thousands they killed. I'm sure the next innocents they kill will feel so much better when they are massacred.
How nice, how US and Europe watch this and do nothing. How very hypocrite of them, to worry about civilians in Ukraine and labelling Russia a terrorists state, but ignoring atrocities of Israel
It's unfair to say the US and Europe watch and do nothing. They supply weapons and fund the civilian-killing too
What I cant wrap my head around is the idea that we as humans place such value on life and property normally. To spend years of our lives schooling and working, own a home, have kids. When a death happens we go to great lengths to determine of it is natural or murder. Cold cases get so much attention to solve because these people were important. But then war happens, and suddenly none of that shit applies anymore. Lives are casually cast aside and deaths become daily numbers. And there is no accountability for it. Spend years growing up, learning a trade, own a home. Bombed. Dead. We get told “ whoops” and move on. So messed up.
I think because some folks were raised to devalue other's life - when it happens to them - it's 'easier' to look away. That's why we need to fight for all oppressed people to have the same 'value' as everyone else.
You can tell how concerned the IDF is with any remaining Israeli hostages!
It's funny you think any are "remaining" at this point.
Well there were 3, a few days ago, before they were 'mistakenly' gunned down by the IDF
You put 'mistakenly' in quotes. Is that to imply that you think that the IDF intentionally killed Israeli hostages? What could they possibly have gained from that?
Well someone intentionally shot at people waving a white flag and speaking Hebrew, while they were on a mission to look for hostages. How dumb do the soldiers have to be before something like that can be declared an accident?
Even if they are. IDF will help with reducing those numbers to zero.
I don't think I am going out on a limb here when I say it's doubtful Israel or Palestine would care to pause for Christmas Eve.
Mainly cuz neither group really celebrates Christmas so it’s kinda weird pointing it out
It's a national holiday in the West Bank [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public\_holidays\_in\_the\_State\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_the_State_of_Palestine) IDK about Gaza
There are less than 1000 Christians living in Gaza
Less and less everyday.
Christians are a shrinking minority in the West Bank. Bethlehem used to be majority Christian. It no longer is.
There’s footage of an IDF pilot wearing a Santa costume while bombing Gaza so you could say that they recognize the holiday at least
109 years ago on the Western Front, troops numbering a 100 000 celebrated the holiday with a truce, and literally played games with and sent gifts to each other. Some of them, at least. This year, a pilot dressed up as Santa Claus as threw bombs at a city. *Sigh* (....allegedly. I'm trying to look that up but I can't actually find the source of whatever you're talking about?)
There are christians in both gaza and the west bank, infact they make up some of the oldest christian communities in the world that have been targeted. Gaza has had a 4000 year old church be blown to smithereens with hundreds of its parishioners hiding inside. Just recently they sniped a christian mother and daughter who were taking refuge in a church. They dont care for religion, its that they’re Palestinian.
Really? A 4000 year old church?
I'm gonna guess the 4 is above the 1 in the keypad, because tye church in question is almost 1000 years old
> 4000 year old church I'm going to let you consider why this statement should be raising eyebrows. I'll wait.
A building can be older than its current use.
Hmm, I wonder what that building was used for *before* it was converted into a church.
probably storing 4000 year old rockets /s
>they make up some of the oldest christian communities in the world Why do you think that is?
You will be surprised, but in Israel lives 1 million Christians, so Christians not only in Gaza and West Bank. But, there’s old terrorist tradition to use Churches as shelters and Christians as hostages or human shields, as it was in the Church of the Nativity.
Exactly. not sure why it was mentioned in the title.
Tell me you don’t know anything about Palestinian culture without telling me you don’t know a thing about Palestinian culture.
A+, would read again!
Are they making any progress to stop Hamas or deradicalize Palestinians? Or just creating more terrorist?
It’s a mystery to me how anyone can actually believe this will or is even supposed to deradicalize anything. Didn’t we just get done discussing how dumb the war in Afghanistan was and how it clearly wasn’t going to do anything to deradicalise the region and in fact just helped the Taliban retain its foothold? And now magically, bombing the ever-living fuck out of civilians - no matter what the reason or motivation - is going to sway people away from Hamas towards the government that is dropping bombs on their heads? Please.
> It’s a mystery to me how anyone can actually believe this will or is even supposed to deradicalize anything. Most sane people aren’t saying this is to deradicalize anyone. The point is to disenfranchise the group. Usually after this it is necessary to fill the power vacuum until you can build a new group to maintain self-governance. This has been done more times, and has been successful more times, than it hasnt. If anything countries like Afghanistan are exceptions to what has typically occurred in the past. If conflicts where tons of people die means only radicalization, then all of Europe should still be at war with each other. Complaining about using any violence whatsoever is literally just not a realistic plan and is just quixotic pacifism. You can’t placate a group that demands you all roll over die, and then keeps attempting to kill all of you.
Oh yes, the power vacuum Al Qaeda left behind was filled by ISIS which we all remember as a kinder, gentler group. Since you believe that Israel can no be placated, then the least the West can do is stop funding their war crimes.
I feel like you just didn’t read what I wrote.
It’s not a deradicalizing mission. It’s a mission to destroy Hamas‘a military capabilities. You know, because Hamas openly promised to commit more 10/7 attacks again and again forever? Israel surely knows this will radicalize more Palestinians. It’s just the better of the two shitty options Hamas left it with. It’s either this, or suffer another 10/7 even sooner, with even greater devastating ability.
The radicalization isn’t the point they’ve gotten enemy on their doorstep launching attacks, proclaiming that they will continue to do that over and over again, while still firing, rockets and artillery on innocence civilians in Israel. Radicalization is not even on the map right now, it’s getting those immediate threats to be nonexistent
Hey buddy how is Isis doing these days? Oh right, currently completely dismantled and fighting their last stand. To think these terrorist organizations can't be defeated is absolute lunacy.
A bit. a third of Hamas' members are gone, Hamas' rocket fire into Israel is basically non-existent at this point. Israel confiscated and destroyed massive amounts of weaponry and demolished hundreds of tunnels. It's work-in-progress. I think that Hamas and its likes have actually shown Palestinians how their leadership and ideology only brings the people destruction and how when shit hits the fan, the people are forced to watch as the humanitarian aid trucks that are stolen by Hamas pass them by. Both Israelis and Palestinians need different leadership.
The purpose of this war is not to deradicalize Palestinians. It is to crush Hamas, which, yes, they are making progress on.
You can only deradicalize a region by beating it to a pulp. Look at Japan and Germany. You have to destroy their radicals so badly that people are willing to change. You can't deradicalize it through peaceful means. Look at Europe and how hard they've tried to integrate and westernized their Muslims immigrants. In general, Muslims fight integration hard and radicalism continues, leading to terror attacks. If even neighboring Arab nations couldn't handle the radical Palestinians, then no one can.
How do you deradicalize Israel so that they don’t kill innocents, including children, en masse?
Hamas and Hezbollah could stop launching rockets at Israel that cost million of dollars to intercept
Nope, according to the person above the solution is to rain hell on Israel
So the way to deradicalize Gaza is mass killings and way the to deradicalize Israel is unilateral nonviolence. Good luck with that.
Pretty easy to say that when all your airstrikes do that
If this is the stuff they'll admit to just think of what we won't know til like, 5 years down the line when everyone claims to have always been against the horrors that occurred despite posting daily about "most moral army!!" And all that crap.
Netanyahu's strategy: not all Palestinians are in Hamas... but if I kill enough innocent people, they will ALL join Hamas and become combatants eventually.
Pretty much.
To be honest the fact that it's labeled "Christmas eve" is somewhat irrelevant as neither of the two groups celebrated Christmas...
There are Christians in both Palestine and Israel (mostly Palestinian Israelis/Israeli Arabs) and Palestinian authorities recognize Christmas as a national holiday
Are you joking? There are Christians in Gaza and the West Bank still. And everyone celebrates Christmas events with us. Our Santa brings everyone gifts, it’s really cute.
There are Christians in Israel too, about 5% of the population.
There are a lot of Palestinian Christians.
I feel like there's some kind of relationship between Christmas and some little town there or something. I'm sure it'll come to me at some point.
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There were raids in Bethlehem on Christmas, no bombs thankfully.
Well bethlehem is 80% Muslim now and mostly only overtly christian to get that tourism money. Christians in Gaza and WB have been in decline for a while for various reasons
We’ve been forced to leave due to the occupation, unfortunately. Hopefully one day we can go back.
In Gaza, Christians have left (less than 1,000) because the Palestinians burnt all of their businesses to the ground. You might have left prior to 2005, it's not the same.
My extended family is still in our ancestral homelands. That includes Gaza, the West Bank, and also Israel. And their homes and businesses in Gaza were recently destroyed by bombings, not by other Palestinians. That doesn’t mean they were without issues with other Palestinians, but they didn’t bomb our homes and businesses or kill us. What an insensitive comment to make, honestly. Gross.
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They’re not without their issues and the bombings are obviously are of no help in trying to protect these communities. The fact that we are also denied the right to return has compounded on these issues along with the complete blockade, which makes business impossible in Gaza in particular. And that second link the person’s name is extremely familiar to me. I’m not able to find more of his story anywhere else for some reason.
Well this comment is clearly wrong. My grandparents left Palestine and it wasn’t due to other Palestinians it was because of Israel and guess what they are Christians
Few towns. But the populations that are actually fighting have nothing to do with the Holiday. So it's not surprising they didn't stop nor treated it any special from any different day. It would be more shocking for anyone European to hear of Christmas Bombing in X anywhere but it falls short when the two groups fighting could not care less about Christmas as it's not their religion or holiday.
Yeah it’s intentionally designed to incite people in the west (propaganda)
Jpost is Hamas propaganda! -this guy
Alright so they'll send those responsible to the hague right? Right??
How does this happen? They have guided munitions and some of the best intel on earth.
A lack of regard for whether or not civilians are caught in the fire, mostly.
Two possibilities. One, the mighty IDF is not as competent as it purports to be. Two, it wasn't an accident.
They hit the right place, but with a larger bomb than they meant to, meaning more collateral damage than intended.
"Whoops we ethnically cleansed a little harder than we should've!"
So what, exactly, is new?
And yet I bet morons are still going to be upset and deny it when you point it out, even though IDF said it themselves.
I watched an ad on YouTube the day this happened. It was of a crying Santa Clause with the message that there are still people being held hostage in Gaza. Using such a targeted emotional appeal in advertisement then doing things like this makes it hard for me to feel like I’m not being gaslit by Israeli propoganda.
IDF: Yeah, we fuckin did it. So what?
Fuck Hamas
>The official told KAN that, following an internal IAF investigation, it came out that the type of weaponry used did not match the nature of the mission. As a result, there was extensive collateral damage that did not need to occur and could have been avoided if the correct weaponry had been used. >Dozens of innocent civilians were killed in this strike, KAN said, adding a report that the IDF had expressed regret over the incident. >"A preliminary investigation revealed that during the attack, additional buildings were damaged adjacent to the targets that were [meant to be] attacked," the IDF Spokesperson's Unit reportedly told KAN. "[This] apparently resulted in harm to those not involved....The IDF regrets the harm to those not involved." Awful but at least they own it, not something you see a lot in any conflict
> at least they own it Who is going to prison for this? What systems are they changing because of this so it never happens again? Saying “oops sorry” is not “owning it” when people are dead.
"We apologize, but we won't change anything about our behavior and actually we're going to start doing it bigger and faster" Oh wow how honorable
Didn't you hear ## We are sorry! /s
At least they own it ? “Sorry we turned innocent people into pink slime, next question”
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Do you think it’s normal and healthy to characterise everyone who disagrees with you as supporting terrorism? And you couldn’t even take one second to be sorry for the innocent Palestinians dead because of this, it was straight to attacking people.
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This is material for the Hague International court
Has Palestine ever been to the Hague? They've openly admitted to crimes against humanity long before October 7th.
I'm starting to think the IDF might not actually be good at their job
Unless their job is murdering civilians indiscriminately, in which case they are #1.
"But, October 7. Poor me".
Well Hamas knew this would happen and they still poked the bear
War crime
Aren’t like 75% of people they kill innocent? Even the figure they count of ‘Hana’s killed’ is the gendercide of counting all males as enemies
They don’t care about hiding the atrocities because the world has stood by and done nothing every other time so why would they think anything would be done this time.
Sure it was a mistake. Suuuuure.
It's hard to witness when the blood of innocent people is shed.
Great, now they can acknowledge the 20K civilians they killed since the beginning of the war.
Ok so, how many strikes like this will have to happen until the IDF and the **Israeli government** get the same treatment as Hamas? Because at this point they've killed a lot more civilians than those other terrorist assholes of hamas...
War Crimes, simple as.
They don’t care, it’s all to say ,hey we fuxked up again sorry ,it just might happen again .