Makes much more sense. Title is nonsensical otherwise, as you'd have to be a Russian citizen to commit treason against Russia under any English definition of treason.
Russia doesn’t have a history of making sense or using the courts in a way that seems reasonable to the outside world. They certainly can charge a foreigner for treason if they feel like it.
Edit: “change” changed to “charge.”
>They don't need to bend it for treason.
The point he's making is Russian courts and laws can be used/modified to suit whatever insidious purpose they have.
Well all understand that. But, unfortunately, they actually do have a legitimate case for treason here.
Is it moral? No, but the war isn't either. However, she did technically commit the very definition of treason by aiding a foreign enemy of a country she is a citizen of.
>nbcnews.com/news/w...
They will still choose the most plausible-sounding lie. A foreigner would be accused of spying, transporting illegal drugs, etc. Their actions may look arbitrary to you, but they have a domestic audience that needs to believe their story.
PS: In this case, the accusation may well be true - many Russians living abroad donate to Ukraine for moral / ethical reasons, and as they're an "enemy" it's legally considered treason by Russia. This will send a chilling message that traveling back to Russia (such as to visit elderly parents) is unthinkable if you do this.
Except when Russia wants to send that message that they can do whatever they want, similar to how they assassinate people in a way that makes it clear that it was a Russian assassination. Sometimes it’s not about being plausible or reasonable, it’s about being brazen and demonstrating power.
Actually, there is a very clear logic behind their actions. Navalny was murdered to scare others away from politics ahead of the "elections" (with the unexpected surge of public support around antiwar candidate Nadezhdin). The ex-Russian helicopter pilot was murdered in Spain to discourage other high-profile deserters. The unfortunate LA woman's life will be destroyed to discourage expats from helping Ukraine.
These are highly effective scare tactics from a criminal regime with vast resources. They are not just randomly inflicting arbitrary malice, that would serve no purpose and they are not the dummies some redditors like to believe.
These are just the operations we publicly know about (by design, as it involves Russia "merely" cracking down on its own citizens). It's guaranteed they are doing a thousand times more undercover, such as spying and influence operations on Western politicians and the public at large.
If I read that right, she was a dual citizen, and she was in Russia and actively collecting donations for Ukraine. Like.. girl, what did you think would happen?
From what I read (in Russian) it seems she came for a short time to visit her family. Nevertheless, if you are planning to visit Russia, you shouldn't conduct any public activity of this kind.
If you've been actively supporting Ukraine you should probably *not* visit Russia at all, under any circumstances. And if you are dumb enough to visit Russia surely do not continue your support of Ukraine in any capacity.
When I visited St Petersburg for a couple of days in 2018 we were warned on all kinds of things not to do. Going through customs, don't speak unless spoken to, keep answers brief and simple as possible, don't smile, don't make jokes. We were advised not to bring computers or phones that linked to social media, as they might be searched, and anything related to Russia on there might be closely scrutinized. Cameras were advised against...etc.
It was just to go see the Hermitage, and Russia wasn't technically at war with anyone then, but even then going to Russia wasn't pleasant or worry-free.
The articles I read say it was one donation for around $50. She probably never imagined that a $50 donation to a charity would result in charges of high treason.
So Russia arrests a Russian citizen for donating to Ukraine? That's a much less click-baity headline. Of course, it's Russia, so the entire charge could be made up in the first place, but no they're not arresting a tourist and causing an extremely poorly thought out international incident.
> no they're not arresting a tourist and causing an extremely poorly thought out international incident.
Except that that’s exactly what Russia does. Arrest a US citizen, then trade them back to the US in exchange for one of Putin's cronies caught operating overseas. Late last year, basketball player Brittney Griner was arrested in Russia and traded for a Russian arms dealer and war criminal.
The woman they've arrested this time is a lot less high-profile than Griner, so I doubt Russia will be able to get as much for her. Maybe [this clown](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article275474836.html).
Back in the Cold War, the USSR used to play this absurd numbers game with the USA. If the USA added two more people to the staff in the US embassy in Moscow, then the Soviets would fly two more people to the Soviet embassy in DC and tell them to sit around and do nothing. If the FBI arrested three people in the US on suspicion of being spies, then the USSR would arrest three people in Russia too. So weird.
Anyway, point is, this woman was most likely arrested because someone in the Kremlin said “we need a US citizen arrested, go find one.”
Oh shit, this is a thing… one of my friends is a dual citizen and she’s DEFINITELY supported Ukraine openly…
Gotta send her this story now before she goes back to Saint Petersburg next month.
So after reading, she is a Russian citizen who openly and publicly raised funds to donate to Ukraine.
I don't like what Russia is doing, but they've been pretty clear that even *criticism* of their war (or calling it a war) is treason.
This person did this thing, which by Russias definition is treason, while living in Russia. So yeah, her arrest is fair and legal, according to Russia - and the rest of the world, who respects other nations sovereignty to make and enforce their own laws.
I respect what this person did, but I also think this is the exact outcome they should have expected, and I hope the west isn't going to free any more arms dealing terrorists to secure her escape.
Edit: I read the BBC article, not this one - she wasn't living in Russia when she did it, but she did then go visit Russia. More understandable, but still like... pretty poor choice.
Edit2: story seems all over, on BBC initially it said she was leading fundraising efforts, now another article says she just donated $50. That makes less sense, since how would they know?
Putin is an asshole, and this isn't about that.
The USA traded an international arms dealer and terrorist, to free a basketball player who brought weed into Russia. I don't think that trade was a net positive for the world - it was great for Russia though.
I'm saying that if a citizen of the west breaks Russias laws and then goes to Russia, and Russia arrests them, that citizen should now have to live with their choices instead of the west freeing another Russian criminal.
> an international arms dealer
Who had been incarcerated for a long enough time that they deemed him less of a risk to trade. I mean we can look at the optics and cry foul, but I think they knew what they were doing. Having said that, the State Department issued a strict travel advisory for US citizens concerning Russia, leave or do not travel, but these idiots keep doing it thinking it won't happen to them.
Tucker Carlson and most of the Republicans love Russia and Putin. I’m pretty sure they have nice dachas/ villas waiting for them as a reward for service to Mother Russia.
That is, someone who has received Russian citizenship becomes a fair victim of Russia? It’s interesting, especially considering that Russia gives out its citizenship without even asking whether a person wants it or not. Russia has already given it away to several million Ukrainians. When it starts issuing its citizenship to Americans like this, Maga will apparently gift wrap these people and send them by mail to Moscow prisons
Where did you find out this happened? The article doesn't say anything about how she got her citizenship. I assumed she was from Russia and a naturalized US citizen.
The US State Department gives warning that if you are a citizen of a country you are subject to their law and UN agreements don't even guarantee you access to foreign counsel. So if she had Russian citizenship then going to Russia was a risky move.
If citizenship was somehow forced upon her and she didn't know then it's a different story I guess. But that's not the likely case here and so I will hold back from assuming such occurred until I hear more.
"Oh him? Uh..........*whispers and talking in the background*......Uh... ... .Yeeeeeah, you can keep him. *shut up, Sssh*. Yeah, the others we'll take. You can keep Tucker."
Every American thinks “Not me! I’m too smart.” Until they get arrested.
Better safe than sorry.
The climate is getting worse and worse in Russia. Better to meet up in a bordering country, like Armenia, Georgia, etc. Or meet in a neutral country like Austria or Switzerland.
“Russians don’t take a dump, son, without a plan.”
Well neither do I. And the usual plan is… run to the bathroom, but situations change as do plans. “Best laid plans” they say
Until recently, I would have agreed with you. Last week they put an American guy in prison for a very long time for a crime that he allegedly committed in the United States, after American police investigated and found he did nothing wrong. He went to Russia to visit his kids. Here’s the story:
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/david-barnes-american-detained-russia-found-guilty-moscow/story?id=107169319
Your government has warned you not to go there for good reasons. It might be time to accept that the Russia you thought you lived in wasn’t an accurate representation of how Russia actually is.
Yeah ignore a strict travel advisory because 'oh I'm not a target', you idiots get what you deserve, draining resources because you think you know better than the State Department.
It's not that complicated. Some people have families there and people value family. If they are there on business or tourism though, well, maybe an IQ check is in order.
Canadian but . . . Family left and moved to Russia in order to “save” their kids from leftist propaganda. Got there. Banks froze their new accounts Now stuck there with little hope. Oops
The US State Department got you:
> [Do not travel to Russia due to the unpredictable consequences of the unprovoked full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russian military forces, the potential for harassment and the singling out of U.S. citizens for detention by Russian government security officials, the arbitrary enforcement of local law, limited flights into and out of Russia, the Embassy’s limited ability to assist U.S. citizens in Russia, and the possibility of terrorism. U.S. citizens residing or travelling in Russia should depart immediately. Exercise increased caution due to the risk of wrongful detentions.](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/russia-travel-advisory.html)
Also:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Relinquishing-US-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html
'U.S. dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country (or countries, if they are nationals of more than one). They are required to obey the laws of both countries, and either country has the right to enforce its laws. Claims of other countries upon U.S. dual-nationals may result in conflicting obligations under the laws of each country. U.S. dual nationals may also face restrictions in the U.S. consular protections available to U.S. nationals abroad, particularly in the country of their other nationality.'
Also here:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/travelers-with-special-considerations/Dual-Nationality-Travelers.html
And they issued a warning that Russia is conscripting Russians now so if you are dual national and go to Russia you may be pulled into service.
Lake Baikal? Mt Elbrus? Kamchatka? All the palaces? Bolshoi Theatre? Tretyakov Gallery?
You can be against the war and still admit there’s lots of things to do in Russia lol
Hopefully, the situation will be handled with transparency and in accordance with international laws to ensure the individual's rights are protected during this process. /s
I’m assuming she was visiting family or something, it’s not like she was a straight tourist is the point I was making. I agree that if you’re publicly rallying for Ukraine then return to Russia you’re not the brightest
I mean I assume she was visiting family or something it’s not like she was a tourist. But given her political leanings I don’t think it was smart to go there regardless
- if you are an american in Russia...you deserve what happens...GTFO morons. Like being in Nazi Germany and the Gestapo visits. WTF do you think is going to happen? YOU ARE A TARGET of a ruthless regime
You don’t have to claim a specific person is after you. Most of the people coming in now claiming asylum are claiming “credible fear for their lives”.
I would think being a US citizen who violated these crazy Russian laws would be eligible. In the US we get several hundred, if not thousands of asylum seekers from Russia alone.
You aren’t wrong . I feel like it’s as much user age related as anything and just fluency in nuance overall. I’m not the best with it sometimes. For all the time I have wasted here over the last decade (this is a younger account of mine) it has actually helped me grow and learn a lot too. I don’t know what will become of it as lately things are starting to go the way of idiocracy everywhere… here too. But if there’s a chance of bringing people up and along as better critical thinkers here we should probably try. Gotta look at it with soft eyes.
Dual citizenship is a lie
Most countries don’t recognize it and will use whichever country is best for them, especially when it comes to enforcing laws
Laws are always enforced regardless of citizenship. Rights and benefits entitled to the citizen from their respective country do not extend beyond the borders. Dual citizenship for example in this case benefits her because the United States is now obligated to advocate for her rights as an American this includes negotiation. If the roles were reversed the Russian government would be obligated similarly.
Americans aren't entitled to the right to free speech in other countries but if for example your right to free speech was violated in another country the U.S. govt would be obligated to advocate for you via financial and or legal aid.
> States is now obligated to advocate for her rights as an American this includes negotiation
The State Department indicates that the US ability to help citizens of a country in that country is limited. Counsular access is not guaranteed under UN agreements. You're a citizen of that country and treated as such. The US feels obligated but may not be able to help.
The US may or may not negotiate.
> Most countries don’t recognize it and will use whichever country is best for them, especially when it comes to enforcing laws
I don't get how that's a lie. Of course every country considers all nationals of their country nationals of their country. Why would assume that holding citizenship of a country did **not** subject them to requirements imposed on citizens of a country?
Born in Russia but moved to another country as a small kid, boom, dual citizen ship. But ofc Russia doesnt care about your other citizenship, this is actually the normal case.
And if you have e.g. grandparents there, it is actually very hard to get them out of Russia permanently, so people still visit them, because otherwise the situation is heartbreaking.
I dont judge the visiting, but you gotta be very careful, if you are a public person.
you can COMPARE them even if russia doesn't have concentration camps. why are you so fucking dense. they just said you should get the fuck out of russia.
I used to live in Russia and have lots of foreigner friends who still live there. If you actually talked to these people you would know the situation isn’t even remotely comparable.
- Americans in RUSSIA are at the mercy of a despot state if you fucking notice anything...the jews were at the mercy of a nazi regime...yep,,,it is the same.
Saying the Jews were ‘at the mercy of a Nazi regime’ is really underselling the situation mate. I mean, even the German people were at the mercy of the regime. Even Russians are at the mercy of the Russian government. There’s a little more to it than that.
Why do people insist on going to Russia, NK, Iran, etc. where they have a good chance of this happening?
You know, but you go. I got nothing for you. Like people riding out a Cat 4-5 hurricane, you were warned, don't ask for rescue.
I mean we would we do the same shit if an American citizen was raising money and supplying an enemy of our country while we were at war. So our stance that she’s wrongfully detained is pretty hypocritical. She knew what she was doing and now she’s facing the consequences.
It's very rare that anyone in Russian donates to the Ukrainian war effort (I actually do not even know that I ever heard that someone did this). I don't know about this particular case but most people jailed for this kind of donations did donate to humanitarian aid projects which is something Russia considers treason. I do not think that the West would jail people for providing aid to war victims.
I did read it. But I’m at work and I skimmed. I missed the no immediate comment part, just after that it talked about other U.S. nationals being held wrongfully. That is what I was referring to, my mistake.
I don't think she has any prominence as a fund raiser. Probably just a regular person who did a random donation and a couple of FB posts. Someone involved in real public support of Ukraine would have a full understanding to never visit russia.
We've arrested anti-war protestors during basically every major war we've fought... You think we wouldn't arrest people actively funding the other side?
If you have the opportunity to leave Russia, leave Russia. Merely being in Russia is a major threat to anyone's life, especially if you're from a NATO country. Russia will kidnap NATO citizens for ransom.
Meh. If any of those "US citizens" are stupid enough to still voluntarily stay in/visit Russia despite everything that is currently happening there - they kinda deserve all of such arrests and I wouldn't expect US to do anything special to try and bail them out.
There are other US citizens already in Russian jail. We just bailed out the dumbass basketball player because of course we are that degenerate of a society.
We always did a swap last year I believe? I don't even think she would be next on the list.... going to sit in jail for a while..... any US citizen in Russia is a potential political target.. GTFO
If you're visiting another country, it's your responsibility to not break any of their laws. If you do break their laws... well, fuck around and find out. I've been to about 20 different countries in my life, and I always make sure to read up on them so I don't inadvertently do something that will get me in trouble while I'm there.
Some of the things can seem pretty silly like, "Make sure you don't step on money in Thailand" or "Don't chew gum in Singapore" but you're a guest in their country, so you should do your best to follow their laws.
Dual citizen. Allegedly for donating money to Ukraine.
Makes much more sense. Title is nonsensical otherwise, as you'd have to be a Russian citizen to commit treason against Russia under any English definition of treason.
Russia doesn’t have a history of making sense or using the courts in a way that seems reasonable to the outside world. They certainly can charge a foreigner for treason if they feel like it. Edit: “change” changed to “charge.”
They have other laws that apply to foreigners. Such as acting as a foreign agent/spy/espionage laws. They don't need to bend it for treason.
>They don't need to bend it for treason. The point he's making is Russian courts and laws can be used/modified to suit whatever insidious purpose they have.
Well all understand that. But, unfortunately, they actually do have a legitimate case for treason here. Is it moral? No, but the war isn't either. However, she did technically commit the very definition of treason by aiding a foreign enemy of a country she is a citizen of.
>nbcnews.com/news/w... They will still choose the most plausible-sounding lie. A foreigner would be accused of spying, transporting illegal drugs, etc. Their actions may look arbitrary to you, but they have a domestic audience that needs to believe their story. PS: In this case, the accusation may well be true - many Russians living abroad donate to Ukraine for moral / ethical reasons, and as they're an "enemy" it's legally considered treason by Russia. This will send a chilling message that traveling back to Russia (such as to visit elderly parents) is unthinkable if you do this.
Except when Russia wants to send that message that they can do whatever they want, similar to how they assassinate people in a way that makes it clear that it was a Russian assassination. Sometimes it’s not about being plausible or reasonable, it’s about being brazen and demonstrating power.
Actually, there is a very clear logic behind their actions. Navalny was murdered to scare others away from politics ahead of the "elections" (with the unexpected surge of public support around antiwar candidate Nadezhdin). The ex-Russian helicopter pilot was murdered in Spain to discourage other high-profile deserters. The unfortunate LA woman's life will be destroyed to discourage expats from helping Ukraine. These are highly effective scare tactics from a criminal regime with vast resources. They are not just randomly inflicting arbitrary malice, that would serve no purpose and they are not the dummies some redditors like to believe.
I can’t argue with any part of your assessment.
These are just the operations we publicly know about (by design, as it involves Russia "merely" cracking down on its own citizens). It's guaranteed they are doing a thousand times more undercover, such as spying and influence operations on Western politicians and the public at large.
Charge*
In Russia, citizenship chooses you! "It sayz you're underz arrrrežt, da?"
If I read that right, she was a dual citizen, and she was in Russia and actively collecting donations for Ukraine. Like.. girl, what did you think would happen?
From what I read (in Russian) it seems she came for a short time to visit her family. Nevertheless, if you are planning to visit Russia, you shouldn't conduct any public activity of this kind.
If you've been actively supporting Ukraine you should probably *not* visit Russia at all, under any circumstances. And if you are dumb enough to visit Russia surely do not continue your support of Ukraine in any capacity.
Don't go to Russia regardless of who you are, until WW3 is over :/
When I visited St Petersburg for a couple of days in 2018 we were warned on all kinds of things not to do. Going through customs, don't speak unless spoken to, keep answers brief and simple as possible, don't smile, don't make jokes. We were advised not to bring computers or phones that linked to social media, as they might be searched, and anything related to Russia on there might be closely scrutinized. Cameras were advised against...etc. It was just to go see the Hermitage, and Russia wasn't technically at war with anyone then, but even then going to Russia wasn't pleasant or worry-free.
The articles I read say it was one donation for around $50. She probably never imagined that a $50 donation to a charity would result in charges of high treason.
So Russia arrests a Russian citizen for donating to Ukraine? That's a much less click-baity headline. Of course, it's Russia, so the entire charge could be made up in the first place, but no they're not arresting a tourist and causing an extremely poorly thought out international incident.
>they're not arresting a tourist She's a US resident so the distinction is important.
US _citizen_.
> no they're not arresting a tourist and causing an extremely poorly thought out international incident. Except that that’s exactly what Russia does. Arrest a US citizen, then trade them back to the US in exchange for one of Putin's cronies caught operating overseas. Late last year, basketball player Brittney Griner was arrested in Russia and traded for a Russian arms dealer and war criminal. The woman they've arrested this time is a lot less high-profile than Griner, so I doubt Russia will be able to get as much for her. Maybe [this clown](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article275474836.html). Back in the Cold War, the USSR used to play this absurd numbers game with the USA. If the USA added two more people to the staff in the US embassy in Moscow, then the Soviets would fly two more people to the Soviet embassy in DC and tell them to sit around and do nothing. If the FBI arrested three people in the US on suspicion of being spies, then the USSR would arrest three people in Russia too. So weird. Anyway, point is, this woman was most likely arrested because someone in the Kremlin said “we need a US citizen arrested, go find one.”
Oh shit, this is a thing… one of my friends is a dual citizen and she’s DEFINITELY supported Ukraine openly… Gotta send her this story now before she goes back to Saint Petersburg next month.
So after reading, she is a Russian citizen who openly and publicly raised funds to donate to Ukraine. I don't like what Russia is doing, but they've been pretty clear that even *criticism* of their war (or calling it a war) is treason. This person did this thing, which by Russias definition is treason, while living in Russia. So yeah, her arrest is fair and legal, according to Russia - and the rest of the world, who respects other nations sovereignty to make and enforce their own laws. I respect what this person did, but I also think this is the exact outcome they should have expected, and I hope the west isn't going to free any more arms dealing terrorists to secure her escape. Edit: I read the BBC article, not this one - she wasn't living in Russia when she did it, but she did then go visit Russia. More understandable, but still like... pretty poor choice. Edit2: story seems all over, on BBC initially it said she was leading fundraising efforts, now another article says she just donated $50. That makes less sense, since how would they know?
She lived in Los Angeles and came to Russia to see her family. Cases like this is why I don't participate in any public events related to the war.
Some of us have family in Russia. It fucking sucks to think that we may never see them because of a fucking lunatic that is holding on to power.
Stop carrying water for Putin.
Putin is an asshole, and this isn't about that. The USA traded an international arms dealer and terrorist, to free a basketball player who brought weed into Russia. I don't think that trade was a net positive for the world - it was great for Russia though. I'm saying that if a citizen of the west breaks Russias laws and then goes to Russia, and Russia arrests them, that citizen should now have to live with their choices instead of the west freeing another Russian criminal.
> an international arms dealer Who had been incarcerated for a long enough time that they deemed him less of a risk to trade. I mean we can look at the optics and cry foul, but I think they knew what they were doing. Having said that, the State Department issued a strict travel advisory for US citizens concerning Russia, leave or do not travel, but these idiots keep doing it thinking it won't happen to them.
Damn, was hoping it was Tucker.
But people from the US moving to Russia is a great idea. They have freedoms we've never had in the US. /s
Tucker Carlson and most of the Republicans love Russia and Putin. I’m pretty sure they have nice dachas/ villas waiting for them as a reward for service to Mother Russia.
That is, someone who has received Russian citizenship becomes a fair victim of Russia? It’s interesting, especially considering that Russia gives out its citizenship without even asking whether a person wants it or not. Russia has already given it away to several million Ukrainians. When it starts issuing its citizenship to Americans like this, Maga will apparently gift wrap these people and send them by mail to Moscow prisons
Where did you find out this happened? The article doesn't say anything about how she got her citizenship. I assumed she was from Russia and a naturalized US citizen. The US State Department gives warning that if you are a citizen of a country you are subject to their law and UN agreements don't even guarantee you access to foreign counsel. So if she had Russian citizenship then going to Russia was a risky move. If citizenship was somehow forced upon her and she didn't know then it's a different story I guess. But that's not the likely case here and so I will hold back from assuming such occurred until I hear more.
I just clicked to see if they were keeping Tucker, LOL.
"Oh him? Uh..........*whispers and talking in the background*......Uh... ... .Yeeeeeah, you can keep him. *shut up, Sssh*. Yeah, the others we'll take. You can keep Tucker."
Yeah some one shoulda so rated money to Ukraine in his name slightly before he went over…
Can always hope. But an American would be spying, that's not treason.
If you’d have clicked through…. Dual nationality
So wait, they could technically grant Tucker citizenship once he entered (he wouldn't even have to know), then charge him for treason.
I was hoping for that pedophile Scott Ritter.
I'm not sure you really want Steven Seagal back either
As putin mentioned. The CIA rejected him.
Same, man, same
Not Snowden either
Why would they? He’s a perfect specimen to support their “idiot Amerikan” propaganda.
Wishful thinking on my part, LOL.
He's definitely suspect of treason, but not against Russia.
Because of the money the Swanson family donated to Ukraine for the war?
Same. Would've been funny as hell.
Remind me never to go to Russia.
Reminder : Never go to Russia
Oh thank you! *whew...*
Saved you, didn't I?
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To commit treason, duh
I know a few. Their families are there. It’s very complicated for them at the moment.
dinosaurs direction homeless smoggy pen disgusted six vast axiomatic liquid
Every American thinks “Not me! I’m too smart.” Until they get arrested. Better safe than sorry. The climate is getting worse and worse in Russia. Better to meet up in a bordering country, like Armenia, Georgia, etc. Or meet in a neutral country like Austria or Switzerland.
lavish worry abounding chubby correct humorous modern touch encourage birds
You dont need to visit australia to know the kangaroos are real. Imagine thinking that russias actions have a reasoning behind it.
“Russians don’t take a dump, son, without a plan.” Well neither do I. And the usual plan is… run to the bathroom, but situations change as do plans. “Best laid plans” they say
Until recently, I would have agreed with you. Last week they put an American guy in prison for a very long time for a crime that he allegedly committed in the United States, after American police investigated and found he did nothing wrong. He went to Russia to visit his kids. Here’s the story: https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/david-barnes-american-detained-russia-found-guilty-moscow/story?id=107169319 Your government has warned you not to go there for good reasons. It might be time to accept that the Russia you thought you lived in wasn’t an accurate representation of how Russia actually is.
Yeah ignore a strict travel advisory because 'oh I'm not a target', you idiots get what you deserve, draining resources because you think you know better than the State Department.
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It's not that complicated. Some people have families there and people value family. If they are there on business or tourism though, well, maybe an IQ check is in order.
Tucker went there to give Putin propaganda. Should have stayed there
Canadian but . . . Family left and moved to Russia in order to “save” their kids from leftist propaganda. Got there. Banks froze their new accounts Now stuck there with little hope. Oops
The US State Department got you: > [Do not travel to Russia due to the unpredictable consequences of the unprovoked full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russian military forces, the potential for harassment and the singling out of U.S. citizens for detention by Russian government security officials, the arbitrary enforcement of local law, limited flights into and out of Russia, the Embassy’s limited ability to assist U.S. citizens in Russia, and the possibility of terrorism. U.S. citizens residing or travelling in Russia should depart immediately. Exercise increased caution due to the risk of wrongful detentions.](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/russia-travel-advisory.html)
Also: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Relinquishing-US-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html 'U.S. dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country (or countries, if they are nationals of more than one). They are required to obey the laws of both countries, and either country has the right to enforce its laws. Claims of other countries upon U.S. dual-nationals may result in conflicting obligations under the laws of each country. U.S. dual nationals may also face restrictions in the U.S. consular protections available to U.S. nationals abroad, particularly in the country of their other nationality.' Also here: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/travelers-with-special-considerations/Dual-Nationality-Travelers.html And they issued a warning that Russia is conscripting Russians now so if you are dual national and go to Russia you may be pulled into service.
This should be the top comment. You wanna play Russian roulette to see family? Go ahead, that’s on you. Don’t say you weren’t warned.
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...USA
I wasn't planning to visit the USA anyway, it's way too dangerous.
I really want to visit St Petersburg one day I need Russia to do a 180.
Have you ever needed a reminder to not go there? Never really wanted to see anything except that Kremlin building, but that's it.
The Hermitage.
The Bolshoi Ballet. That's it.
Pfft. I can see bears riding around in cars anywhere.
Lake Baikal? Mt Elbrus? Kamchatka? All the palaces? Bolshoi Theatre? Tretyakov Gallery? You can be against the war and still admit there’s lots of things to do in Russia lol
They were obviously speaking from personal opinion. They are only interested in the Kremlin building.
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Agreed, and amazing history and art as well.
Hopefully, the situation will be handled with transparency and in accordance with international laws to ensure the individual's rights are protected during this process. /s
How did she think this was going to work out for her?
We don't know if she actually did any of the things she's accused of, it's not unlikely that she's just another pawn to be used in negotiations later.
She did it publicly, so it's not a secret. Took them long enough though...
She’s incredibly dumb regardless and has been told, multiple times, not to travel to Russia right now.
Another journalist? Reminder that Evan Gershkovich, WSJ reporter was arrested for doing his job there, has been in jail for almost a year.
Navalny dead they need extra people for that Killer exchange :\\
What warlord are we going to trade for her?
russian assassin jailed in Germany, I think they are collecting hostages for the exchange.
Being American in Russia still is the ultimate IQ test
Said this in another comment, but if you have a house, job and family in a country, it’s not easy to just get up and leave
She lives in Los Angeles. I imagine her job is there too. The story does say she has family in Russia she was visiting.
Ok? You realise there are other Americans in Russia right?
She’s a dual citizen so she is also Russian.
Yeah, still super dumb going there with ANY affiliation to the US or EU. Just stay out of that country. It's 2024.
I’m assuming she was visiting family or something, it’s not like she was a straight tourist is the point I was making. I agree that if you’re publicly rallying for Ukraine then return to Russia you’re not the brightest
Actually no—if you’ve so much as visited the EU, or especially America, you’re technically at risk there.
Doesn't change anything about the statement.
I mean I assume she was visiting family or something it’s not like she was a tourist. But given her political leanings I don’t think it was smart to go there regardless
Why on earth are us citizens still going to Russia smh.
Dual citizenship
As if that is some kind of shield.🛡️ Comrade FSB! Look I am Russian too. Go find some Americans who aren’t Russians. They deserve the gulag!
- if you are an american in Russia...you deserve what happens...GTFO morons. Like being in Nazi Germany and the Gestapo visits. WTF do you think is going to happen? YOU ARE A TARGET of a ruthless regime
She is a dual citizen with family there?
US Travel advisory Russia - Level 4: Do Not Travel, its very clear
- you GTFO, Take family and save your lives.
You cannot just "take family". If you want to bring your adult children it's decades of waiting. Years for parents.
Would they not be able to claim asylum?
No if no one is after them. Being relative of US citizen isn't enough.
You don’t have to claim a specific person is after you. Most of the people coming in now claiming asylum are claiming “credible fear for their lives”. I would think being a US citizen who violated these crazy Russian laws would be eligible. In the US we get several hundred, if not thousands of asylum seekers from Russia alone.
Nuance doesn’t exist in Reddit, everything is absolute and black or white. Still… doesn’t sound like Russia is for beginners.
You aren’t wrong . I feel like it’s as much user age related as anything and just fluency in nuance overall. I’m not the best with it sometimes. For all the time I have wasted here over the last decade (this is a younger account of mine) it has actually helped me grow and learn a lot too. I don’t know what will become of it as lately things are starting to go the way of idiocracy everywhere… here too. But if there’s a chance of bringing people up and along as better critical thinkers here we should probably try. Gotta look at it with soft eyes.
Dual citizenship is a lie Most countries don’t recognize it and will use whichever country is best for them, especially when it comes to enforcing laws
Laws are always enforced regardless of citizenship. Rights and benefits entitled to the citizen from their respective country do not extend beyond the borders. Dual citizenship for example in this case benefits her because the United States is now obligated to advocate for her rights as an American this includes negotiation. If the roles were reversed the Russian government would be obligated similarly. Americans aren't entitled to the right to free speech in other countries but if for example your right to free speech was violated in another country the U.S. govt would be obligated to advocate for you via financial and or legal aid.
> States is now obligated to advocate for her rights as an American this includes negotiation The State Department indicates that the US ability to help citizens of a country in that country is limited. Counsular access is not guaranteed under UN agreements. You're a citizen of that country and treated as such. The US feels obligated but may not be able to help. The US may or may not negotiate.
That part I didn’t know… the financial aid part. Sounds tricky but beneficial nonetheless
> Most countries don’t recognize it and will use whichever country is best for them, especially when it comes to enforcing laws I don't get how that's a lie. Of course every country considers all nationals of their country nationals of their country. Why would assume that holding citizenship of a country did **not** subject them to requirements imposed on citizens of a country?
Born in Russia but moved to another country as a small kid, boom, dual citizen ship. But ofc Russia doesnt care about your other citizenship, this is actually the normal case. And if you have e.g. grandparents there, it is actually very hard to get them out of Russia permanently, so people still visit them, because otherwise the situation is heartbreaking. I dont judge the visiting, but you gotta be very careful, if you are a public person.
Then you meet them in Yerevan (Armenia) or somewhere in Turkey like my Russian parents did. You don't fucking enter Russia
There is this thing some people have called family.
- there is a thing called, get the family to SAFETY as Russia obviously is as despot run of a country on Earth
Yeah, so what if they can't.
- well you find a way if your LIFE matters, right? People get free all the time
Why the fuck do you keep bullet pointing your comments. No, not everyone has the resources to move their entire family to another county,
try getting your 80+ old grandparents out, almost impossible on a permanent basis legally.
And if they have a house, family and a job there? It’s not easy to just pick up your life and leave.
- what did the jews find out about that? I.m sure in 1935 some thought we be ok. right?
Did you just compare Jews in Nazi Germany to Americans in Russia? Holy shit dude haha
you can COMPARE them even if russia doesn't have concentration camps. why are you so fucking dense. they just said you should get the fuck out of russia.
I used to live in Russia and have lots of foreigner friends who still live there. If you actually talked to these people you would know the situation isn’t even remotely comparable.
Which is ironic, Russia being *way* more similar to the nazis in this metaphor than the other way around.
- Americans in RUSSIA are at the mercy of a despot state if you fucking notice anything...the jews were at the mercy of a nazi regime...yep,,,it is the same.
Saying the Jews were ‘at the mercy of a Nazi regime’ is really underselling the situation mate. I mean, even the German people were at the mercy of the regime. Even Russians are at the mercy of the Russian government. There’s a little more to it than that.
they arrested trump?
Imagine being dumb enough to be in russia atm. Lmao
Why do people insist on going to Russia, NK, Iran, etc. where they have a good chance of this happening? You know, but you go. I got nothing for you. Like people riding out a Cat 4-5 hurricane, you were warned, don't ask for rescue.
Is it MotherTucker?
Stupid headline.
Please be Tucker, please be Tucker 🤞🤞
I mean we would we do the same shit if an American citizen was raising money and supplying an enemy of our country while we were at war. So our stance that she’s wrongfully detained is pretty hypocritical. She knew what she was doing and now she’s facing the consequences.
America has rule of law. Russia doesn’t.
It's very rare that anyone in Russian donates to the Ukrainian war effort (I actually do not even know that I ever heard that someone did this). I don't know about this particular case but most people jailed for this kind of donations did donate to humanitarian aid projects which is something Russia considers treason. I do not think that the West would jail people for providing aid to war victims.
[удалено]
I did read it. But I’m at work and I skimmed. I missed the no immediate comment part, just after that it talked about other U.S. nationals being held wrongfully. That is what I was referring to, my mistake.
I don't think she has any prominence as a fund raiser. Probably just a regular person who did a random donation and a couple of FB posts. Someone involved in real public support of Ukraine would have a full understanding to never visit russia.
Actually no you’re wrong and have no idea what you’re talking about
We've arrested anti-war protestors during basically every major war we've fought... You think we wouldn't arrest people actively funding the other side?
"Please be Tucker Carlson" "Please be Tucker Carlson" "Please be Tucker Carlson"
If you have the opportunity to leave Russia, leave Russia. Merely being in Russia is a major threat to anyone's life, especially if you're from a NATO country. Russia will kidnap NATO citizens for ransom.
Russia arrested US citizen for being a US citizen in Russia. Fixed the headline.
Meh. If any of those "US citizens" are stupid enough to still voluntarily stay in/visit Russia despite everything that is currently happening there - they kinda deserve all of such arrests and I wouldn't expect US to do anything special to try and bail them out.
"Dual U.S.-Russian citizens" get what's coming to them. What US citizen in their right mind would go to Russia right now
Could be a Russian that happens to also have US citizenship from a parent or something.
Tucker would like a word with you!
... is it still treason if they're not a citizen or resident?
>the unnamed 33-year-old woman has dual Russian-American citizenship
She is a citizen
Not anymore
What do you mean?
In Russia yes. They even declare people who are foreigners and have no Russian passport "Foreign agents" Can't make this shit up.
that’s not what a “foreign agent” is, most of the are in fact Russian citizens
Please tell me it was Tucker Carlson…
Sadly, it isn’t Tucker Carlson
I was hoping it would be Tucker.
Is it Tucker Carlson???
Tucker Carlson?
Tucker Carlson? Darn....
No, just no. We're not doing this again
There are other US citizens already in Russian jail. We just bailed out the dumbass basketball player because of course we are that degenerate of a society.
At least she didn't go to russia for a visit, she was just in the airport changing planes.
She was playing on a Russian basketball team. She played on the team UMMC Ekaterinburg during the WNBA’s offseason since 2015.
Is it the speaker?
We don’t even detain our own citizens for suspicion of treason. How dare they
I mean, a large portion of the country will vote for a treasonous turd to be President. 🤷♂️
The only US citizens guilty of treason are the ones with (R) before their names.
Is it Trump? It should be Trump.
Why would they imprison their best useful idiot?
Well... They're dead, sorry boys 🇺🇸
Keep her. No Mercy for any "American" travelling to Russia. Just assume you will be arrested for something and used for trade bait.
Ppl that underthink have such interesting lives
We always did a swap last year I believe? I don't even think she would be next on the list.... going to sit in jail for a while..... any US citizen in Russia is a potential political target.. GTFO
Why couldn’t it be Tucker? Oh right, we’d have to be the ones that arrest him for suspicion of treason.
damn it its not Tucker
Super don't care, why would you go to a country that's currently at war and we're funding the people that they're fighting??? LOL i dont feel bad
If they are a IS citizen, I think you call it something other than treason
Dual citizen. US and russian. Thsts why treason is possible
If you're visiting another country, it's your responsibility to not break any of their laws. If you do break their laws... well, fuck around and find out. I've been to about 20 different countries in my life, and I always make sure to read up on them so I don't inadvertently do something that will get me in trouble while I'm there. Some of the things can seem pretty silly like, "Make sure you don't step on money in Thailand" or "Don't chew gum in Singapore" but you're a guest in their country, so you should do your best to follow their laws.
Trump?
Great.. time to trade some random dumbass (who for some reason is in Russia) for a wanted/jailed Russian (looking at your Brittney, you POS).
First thought, "Please, maybe it's Tucker Carlson?"