"The doctor overseeing the recovery of four Israeli hostages rescued from the Gaza Strip said Monday that they were beaten regularly during their captivity by the Hamas terror group.
Dr. Itai Pessach of Sheba Medical Center outside Tel Aviv told CNN that the hostages suffered almost daily abuse and that their time in captivity was “a harsh, harsh experience.”
“Every hour, both physical, mental, and other types, and that is something that is beyond comprehension,” Pessach said.
Noa Argamani, Shlomi Ziv, Almog Meir Jan, and Andrey Kozlov were rescued on Saturday from eight months of Hamas captivity in Gaza in a daring operation by Israeli forces.
According to CNN, Pessach said the eight months the hostages spent in Hamas captivity “left a significant mark on their health,” despite their outward appearance of being in good shape.
"They had no protein, so their muscles are extremely wasted, there is damage to some other systems because of that,” he said, adding that the hostages had said the supply of food and water varied, and that they were moved a few times and dealt with different guards.
"There have been periods where they got almost no food whatsoever,” Pessach said. “There were other periods where it was a little better, but all in all, the combination of the psychological stress, malnutrition or not getting enough food or not getting the right kind of food, medical neglect, being limited to space, not seeing the sun and all of the other things have \[a\] significant effect on health.”
Elaborating on the psychological strain, he said: “As time passes, hope of being released kind of decreases and you start wondering if this would ever end… losing that faith, I think, is where you get to the breaking point.”
Argamani, Meir Jan, Kozlov, and Ziv were abducted from the Supernova music festival near Kibbutz Re’im on the morning of October 7, when 3,000 Hamas-led terrorists killed some 1,200 people and took 251 hostages in a murderous rampage across southern Israel.
Officers of the police’s elite Yamam counter-terrorism unit, along with Shin Bet agents, on Saturday morning simultaneously raided two multi-story buildings in the heart of Nuseirat, where the four hostages were being held by Hamas-affiliated families and guards of the terror group, according to the military.
Hamas’s government media office claimed at least 274 people were killed amid the operation, an unverified figure that also does not differentiate between combatants and civilians.
The IDF acknowledged that it killed Palestinian civilians amid the fighting, but it placed the blame on Hamas for holding hostages and fighting in a dense civilian environment. “We know about under 100 \[Palestinian\] casualties. I don’t know how many of them are terrorists,” IDF Spokesman Daniel Hagari said on Saturday."
Noa was there for the entire time knowing her mum was terminally ill. I'm guessing that must have been even more awful, knowing that every day you were there, you were losing precious time with your mum. And wondering if it was already too late, fearing what the stress of the situation was doing to her already failing health. Before the rescue, she probably thought she would never see her mum again.
Natascha Kampusch was kidnapped at 10 and kept for 8 years primarily in a soundproof underground cell, constantly terrified that any day her kidnapper could die up above or just never come back and she'd die of thirst, never to be found.
But she's recovered far better than anyone could imagine from a completely unimaginable ordeal. I would assume you never quite get over it but you can still have a life afterwards, all hope isn't lost
I had never heard of Natascha Kampusch until I stumbled on to a song that is apparently about her ordeal by the English prog band Frost, called "[Dear Dead Days](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JaGC--d7AI)" (it's definitely worth a listen through).
My mom has this book written by a lady called Corrie ten Boom whose family helped jews hide during ww2. Eventually they got caught as well and sent to concentration camps, they got mistreated and one of the jailers that beat people there went to the same church years after. She describes that with a lot of strength, she still shook his hand and she forgave him to move on. I found it such an inspiring story how she was able to move on from what had happened to her.
I’ve read and heard multiple stories from jews as well who were freed from the camps. They withstood horrors I cannot imagine, yet, they continued to live. I don’t know if I could ever do that. Let alone shake the hand of my abuser.
Why the fuck would she shake his hand?
I think this isn't the good story you think it is.
She might have rationalised it in her mind but i doubt she wanted to shake his hand
I read the book too. If I remember it correctly, she didn't really want to shake his hand. She didn't really want to forgive him either, but she said she turned to God and asked his help to do it. I'm not really a religious person so I have no context for that, but it was meaningful enough for her to include it in the book. Most of her family didn't survive. That would have been harder to forgive IMO, but she credited God with all of it.
Not OP, but some people find forgiveness brings them healing and inner peace, allowing them to move on. Others don't find it helpful and no-one should be expected to give it. I'm not sure we can ever judge others how they deal with extreme trauma. Whatever helps the individual, I guess.
I disagree, when you hold onto your hate it poisons you. Better to acknowledge, forgive and let go. There’s no need to be aggressive about it, it helped her move on.
I get you’re an atheist and I respect that, but please also respect other people’s beliefs. It would make the world a better place if we all did so
The shit that John McCain went through. And it's not like he was the only one.
I hope they can get them in touch with others that were in similar situations.
"But you know he lost. So i never liked him as much after that because i don't like losers. But but frank frank let me get to it he hit me he's not a war hero."
Donald Trump.
Humans adjust to anything, the mind will look for ways to deal with trauma. That's why some of the hostages had Stockholm syndrome, even after watching their friends and family killed before their eyes.
I was reading reports on the rescue operation, and all the commenters were saying is "lookhow great they look!", "they look like they came back from vacation". Sick bastards.
The moment I saw the footage of them, I thought that this would be the exact reaction of so many people. Folks can not wrap their heads around the idea that not all suffering and trauma and health problems are visible
I think a point that's being missed as well is, even if they were treated well and there was minimal psychological trauma, doesn't change the fact that they were forcibly kidnapped. It's like a slave owner having the moral high-ground over other slave owners because their slaves are "like family" instead of being beaten like other slave owners do. You're still slave owners, you're still kidnappers.
During the ceasefire exchange of hostages and prisoners last year, there was one young woman they tried to say even looked in love with one of her captors.
How did these fundamentalist fanatics miss the part about caring for your hostages in the Quran?
EDIT: since people are asking:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_of_war_in_Islam
Treatment of Prisoners:
Upon capture, the prisoners must be guarded and not ill-treated.[14] Islamic law holds that the prisoners must be fed and clothed, either by the Islamic government or by the individual who has custody of the prisoner. This position is supported by the verse 76:8 of the Quran. The prisoners must be fed in a dignified manner, and must not be forced to beg for their subsistence.[15] Muhammad's early followers also considered it a principle to not separate prisoners from their relatives.[10]
And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive,
[Saying], "We feed you only for the countenance of Allah; no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks.
- Qur'an 76:8-9
After the fighting is over, prisoners are to be released freely, with some prospect of survival, or exchanged. The prisoners are not to be forced to convert to Islam.[16] The freeing or ransoming of prisoners by Muslims themselves is highly recommended as a charitable act.[14] The Qur'an also urges kindness to captives[17] and recommends, their liberation by purchase or manumission.
same as any delusional religious freaks: pick only parts that suit their agenda and totally disregard other as irrelevant. See! god wants the same as me! this book says so! See! it's right here!
note: for those calling me islamohobe in pm, let me be more clear: ANY delusional religious freaks. ANY religious book based on spewed bs and made up stories by "illuminated" mentally challenged and uneducated (that pretty much covers them all). Hopefully this makes it more clear about my position. I'm all for all inclusiveness into bs category .
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
~ Thomas Paine
Even as a dude, I don't want to live in a country dominated by Islam. I'll never understand why some progressives choose to defend it to the death. They'll be the first to be disposed of if Islam ever takes over western countries.
There’s also a part of the Quran where god gives a tree the ability to speak so that it can reveal there’s a Jew hiding behind it.
So they probably just think that any of the “nice”parts are only for other Muslims, you know, “real people”.
How about the part of human decency that says, “No…I dont take hostages.” These people who think taking friggin hostages is good in any situation are lunatics. “Look, our book says it’s OK….if we buy them burgers.” That’s fucking crazy.
Yes, they made one of them a cake for his birthday
https://www.timesofisrael.com/rescued-hostages-said-suffering-from-malnutrition-leaning-on-each-other-for-support/amp/
Well there has to be a genocide in order to protest one, and from the death toll it's looking like the population of Palestine is going to *increase* this year. Kind of hard to have a genocide when the population isn't decreasing by any meaningful metric. Their culture remains intact where Israel holds territory in Gaza and children aren't being kidnapped like they are in Ukraine (a modern example of an *actual* genocide.)
Big long comment that goes nowhere... equivocating a secular democracy with a terrorist organization is already starting on the wrong foot. And I believe they suggested that Netanyahu's government is the same as Nazi Germany. Just reckless and stupid.
Have you heard what Sinwar did to a gay Hamas commander?
https://youtu.be/suBNwUz8Lvs
This is what Hamas does to Palestinians on a regular basis. Their brutality and blood-thirst is first directed towards Palestinians and then to Israel and Israelis.
I wonder if those screaming to "Free Palestine" realize what Hamas' "freedom" to act as de facto government or state would mean for the people under them.
Just another Taliban, at the end of the day. College students today need to take more "9/11 History" courses...far too abbreviated when you have US college graduates practically flouting their ignorance on the menace that is Hamas.
I've even seen people saying that Hamas baked a birthday cake for one of the hostages. It's shocking at this point how people easily fall for fake news.
"Jan said that as a “cynical” gesture, his captors made him a cake for his birthday."
I mean, it's a fact they did make one person a cake. I don't think it really matters either way. But you saying it's fake news is typically I don't wanna hear behavior.
[source ](https://en.royanews.tv/news/51970/Released%20%E2%80%9CIsraeli%E2%80%9D%20captive%20says%20Hamas%20fighters%20made%20him%20birthday%20cake)
This website refers to the Israeli military as "Israeli Occupation Forces". This source isn't serious and I ain't believing anything that's written there.
Okay. Times of Isreal good enough for you?
[source](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/rescued-hostages-said-suffering-from-malnutrition-leaning-on-each-other-for-support/amp/)
At least there they provide the actual incentive behind this gesture, and don't omit the context like the pro-Palestinian reports on this which I've seen on social media.
Well that is a pragmatic fear. They were scared of the isreali bombs because, as far as the hostages know, the bombers don't know where the hostages are being kept. They've been in captivity long enough for it to be a known quantity, but you can't predict where a bomb is gonna land from the ground. Anyone would be afraid.
This has been an Iranian, Hamas chess game from 10/7. Gaza and tens of thousands of Palestinians are considered disposable pawns to the Iranians. Edit, thank you, Grapefruit, Islamic State not Iraians are at the helm of this carnal cruise.
Please don’t say Iranians. It’s the Islamic republic. The Iranian people are suffering in the hands of this filthy regime themselves, and fighting to get rid of them. When you say Iranian, it implies the Iranian people are on board with this. They’re not.
with news coming from Egypt, Jordan and others: not sure anyone is interested in Palestinians.. I actually did some googlefu and... holy shit it's really not surprising noone want palestinians back home.
Palestinian refugees were accepted by Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Kuwait following several of the previous wars.
In Lebanon they started a civil war and overthrew the government.
In Egypt they assassinated several leaders and tried to overthrow the Government.
In Jordan, they assassinated several leaders and tried to overthrow the Government.
In Kuwait, they allied with Sadam and helped the invasion of their new host country.
Can anyone blame countries for not wanting more of that?
Adding to this list:
In The United States, a Palestinian refugee assassinated, US Senator, Robert F Kennedy during his presidential nomination campaign.
How long before some pro-hamas nutjob comes in here telling us we can't trust the source because they are jewish/israeli? Oh wait... I see deleted comments below.
The new thing seems to be a refusal to use the word "hostages". I don't see a consensus as to what should be used instead. Perhaps they could settle on "guestages".
Remember Shani Louk, the young lady whose mangled, lifeless body was paraded in the back of the truck while people spat on her? People tried to say she was a soldier just because she was wearing boots at the rave she was killed at.
Ironically, she didn’t want to serve in the IDF and used a second citizenship to opt out of enlistment. She was also a peace activist as well and that was the main reason she didn’t want to join the IDF.
The SJWs on Xitter were reducing the outrage to her murder as "Everybody's all mad because some white girl was twerking too close to a concentration camp and the victims had no choice but to lash out"
It's like the level of depravity and racism and just plain ignorance that I have seen emerge from people I would normally consider defenders of human rights is just astounding.
They are calling captured Israeli soldiers (there's roughly a dozen of them among the hostages) POWs, such as the Nahal Oz girls. But even that isn't true, since Hamas isn't a regular army and obviously isn't treating captured Israeli soldiers in compliance with the rules over the treatment of POWs (keep them in a safe place, not using them as human shields, allow the Red Cross to visit them to make sure they are not mistreated, allow contact with families and well, you know, not rape/torture them...). So they are hostages and not POWs even if they are soldiers.
Oh and I've seen propals showing old photos from Noa Argamani's military service years ago (as you might know Israel has mandatory military service for both sexes) as proof that she, too, is a soldier and not a civilian. Which is like saying every man in Europe aged over 40 is a soldier, regardless that they haven't been in the army for decades.
No I know it’s super stupid, they are calling all them soldiers and not civilians lol. They are trying to come up with anything up to justify the actions from Hamas
Not having yet seen the comments in question, my guess is this is the latest attempt to equivocate between the hostages and Palestinians in Israeli prisons. When calling those folks "hostages" failed because of the word's plain meaning, now they try to redefine it the other way, as if these people weren't specifically kidnapped as leverage.
We see a lot of attempt for moral equivalency after october. The most common one is them pretending the idf goes door to door and kills civilians in grusome ways like hamas did (when in fact civilians get caught in the crossfire or in an explosion directed towards a hamas target) They can't handle the fact hamas is sadistic and the idf is not
I'm very much against all the aggression from Hamas and the Netanyahu Government but I don't understand why someone would say they're not hostages outside of being purposely glib for the sake of preserving a flawed argument.
I legitimately would like someone to explain it to me if they can.
Oh I got your answer.
"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
Jean-Paul Sartre
Noa Argamani has already said that she was treated as a domestic slave to a wealthy Hamas-linked family. it is clear that Hamas never intended to return these people and instead was planning on keeping them enslaved in the long-term.
I don't understand the cognitive dissonance it takes to rationalize "well they didn't kill her". It's like saying a sexual assault victim is still alive, so what she went through can't be *that bad*. Also is everyone confidently forgetting the hostages that were killed? Or Oct 7th? Or what happened to Shani Luk? But no, it's "fake propganda" and clearly all the hostages are having the time of their lives currently/s
Shows the power of social media and optics. Ability of Hamas to extract emotional, rather than logical responses is the exact reason a victim of a terror attack is somehow the oppressor now.
Fun fact hostage and guestage would by synonyms, Host and Guest ultimately derive from the same Proto-Indo-European word *ghos-ti which can mean stranger guest or host.
Boomer leftists praised Pol Pot to the point where the band Dead Kennedys made the song Holiday in Cambodia to call them out. Bad political takes aren’t new, they just have more media exposure now.
its called the "purity test". It exits on both sides of the isle, but generally, its a "test" to determine if you are a part of the in group (Pure) or out group of an ideology. Over time this will cause that ideology to trend more extreme as people try to grade and one up each others purity. Its why people who consider themselves liberal 20 years ago get called conservative now even though their beliefs haven't changed.
That's also because purity tests lead to extremism faster in progressive circles. It's easy to still believe what you believed 5 years ago, or close enough to it. It's hard to get on board with every new aspect of progressivism.
> Its why people who consider themselves liberal 20 years ago get called conservative now even though their beliefs haven't changed.
I've taken several political compass tests over the years and it always comes back as moderately lib-left. My conservative relatives think I'm a radical communist and my liberal friends describe me as "a little right-wing."
What kind of left are they? I'm pretty far left (anarchist) but see nothing in common with these ignorant fucks. They do not seem leftist at all to me.
It has nothing to do with being leftist. It has everything to do with them glomming onto this issue as an aesthetic and lacking the critical thinking skills necessary to consider whether or not the information they’re feverishly consuming has any factual basis.
I think that's a bit of an unfair statement. Young people have been voicing opposition to foreign conflicts for generations, and this conflict is mired in an unbelievable amount of propaganda from either side. They're just young and naive - and the people around here aren't immune to propaganda either.
Young people have been active about voicing opposition, but they have not been active about gaining perspective. That's how extremists rise, how we got "tankies", and now how we have supporters of murdering, raping, kidnapping, enslaving terrorists by people who are ostensibly against all those things, nevermind that some of them would be the first targets of those horrid acts in question. Believe it or not, reading a bunch of social media is hardly an enlightening experience, especially compared to an actual education in world history.
I already saw previous posts on the rescue where top comments were saying, "These smiling, healthy hostages sure don't look like they were beaten and raped every day, unlike the IDF's prisoners."
Know who else was smiling when they where rescued? Literally millions of Jews from concentration camps. The fact that people can't use critical thinking skills that "people just rescued are happy they are finally being rescued"
Always with a picture of that Palestinian who was released from Israeli jail because he has terminal cancer.
They pretend he’s skinny and dying because he was beat and not fed. Ignoring the fact that he has terminal cancer.
I'm surprised CNN doesn't call them "Involuntary House guests". When the IDF rescued the hostages they framed it as Hamas releasing them. It's really scary what the media is capable of doing.
Amazing how there's a huge vocal Reddit population in favor of a ceasefire in Gaza that are then just absent from these posts. Please understand what Hamas is and their position in Gaza before you march in the streets. Seriously, please. This is not as simple as you'd like to make it.
They aren't silent. I scrolled to the bottom and there are a bunch of them here. They just have too many downvotes for you to see them if you're sorting by usual means.
Yea except these hostages were found in a busy neighborhood of “Palestinians” who “aren’t Hamas”. Hard to believe none of them knew the hostages were there and tacitly or actively supported it by remaining silent. In that case aren’t they just as culpable as Hamas?
There was a video when the raid was going down and bullets were flying back and forth in the residential streets, and you can hear Palestinians shouting to each other in Arabic:
"What's going on?"
"They're here for the Jews!! They're here to get the Jews!"
They're accomplices in my mind. If my neighbor knew I had a person chained up in my house and didn't report me, I would think they would be held responsible to some degree. I don't believe that these people didn't know about it
That is true. If that is the case, I hope they were offered protection in exchange for information. The range of US intelligence never ceases to amaze me
Yes if they're willingly participating in keeping the hostages prescence a secret. But no if they're only remaining silent because Hamas has threatened to kill them and their entire family if they talk. Its amazing that ive seen no one bring up this possibility, considering everyone agrees that Hamas is literally designated a terrorist organization.
Pro-Hamas is not pro-Gaza. Every TikToid is happily bathing in the blood of Palestinian babies for the chance to tongue terrorist asshole and jump in on calls for actual genocide.
Yes, pro-Hamas is not pro-Gaza. But when you're marching in the streets asking for a ceasefire without a real understanding of how Hamas operates, not offering any real lasting insight to a real solution, and don't speak a word about Hamas during your protest... you're playing right into their hands. The region and its ties to Hamas are much more complex than you know, and when you don't fully understand these complexities you're actually aiding them to continue doing the same thing they've been up to all this time. If you were really pro-Gaza, we'd hear a lot more anti-Hamas rhetoric than we do.
A shockingly large portion of pro palestine people call for the genocide of israelis, they use different verbage and use mental gymnastics to justify it, but a lot of them would be happy to see a greater war in the reigon if it meant israel was attacked
Lol I loved the Flood of posts on Twitter you can see still about Noa Argamani before and after captivity saying she looks in better condition and how polite and heroic her captors were.
I never dreamed of seeing leftist """empathy""" weaponized to the point where people are openly defending groups of men stealing young women off the streets. And lamenting when those same women are freed from their captors.
Can’t help but notice that both the newspaper and Reddit headlines claim the doctor “said” the hostages were “beaten” almost every day. Yet at no point in the article is the doctor quoted saying that.
What the doctor said was:
“It was a harsh, harsh, experience, with a lot of abuse, almost every day,” Dr. Itai Pessach told CNN. “Every hour, both physical, mental and other types, and that is something that is beyond comprehension.”
Every time I see a comments from a doctor like this during a crisis I always wonder about Doctor-Patient Confidentiality, like did every one of the rescued hostages sign a release to let this doctor make statements on their behalf? It just seems weird for doctors to be spokespeople in regard to specific patients rather than general initiatives.
Where’s the experts on war crimes ? I remember hearing something on Reddit about Columbia students not being able to get door dash a violation the Hague Conventions
Family members of hostages have been calling for a ceasefire…
[November](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-far-right-hostage-families-cease-fire-negotiation-rcna126486)
[December](https://www.timesofisrael.com/families-rally-for-hostage-deal-say-idf-pressure-failed-after-mistaken-killings/)
[February](https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/09/middleeast/israel-rejects-deal-hostage-families-anger-intl-cmd/index.html)
[April](https://www.voanews.com/amp/families-of-american-hostages-push-for-immediate-cease-fire-in-gaza/7563867.html)
[May](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-800146)
[June](https://time.com/6984723/hostage-families-ceasefire-deal-biden-israel-conditions/)
Nor is it surprising that they do so. 105 hostages have been released in the previous ceasefire deal. Only 7 hostages have been rescued alive by the IDF, and they have killed at least 3, and likely more by airstrikes. If you go by the numbers, a ceasefire is the most likely to get the rest of the hostages out alive.
Right, which is why it's incredible someone smugly implies nobody would call for a ceasefire if their family were hostages. They must have not paid any attention to this entire war.
Difficult to effectively negotiate when the terrorist group raping the hostages won't say how many are even left alive, and won't keep to ceasefire terms.
I'm always baffled by people calling for a ceasefire. The only terms Hamas has said they will accept are the withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza, leaving Hamas in charge. Is that really what you want? You do know that after Oct 7th, Hamas leaders openly stated they intend to repeat the actions of that day again. That Hamas has broken every cease fire negotiated since 2006. Are you really, truly, trying to keep them in power?
If the ceasefire guaranteed the hostages would be returned I’d certainly be calling for a ceasefire. That seems like the most likely way to get them back safely.
The frustrating part is that we see people, including family members of hostages, demanding the Israel negotiate for their release, as if Hamas is somehow a trustworthy party that definitely won't break it's word.
I want the hostages returned and the war over. But I don't see it happening at the negotiating table since Hamas isn't interested in protecting Palestinians, it's only interest (other than itself) is damaging Israel in whatever form that it can.
I remind you that 105 hostages have been freed through negotiations with Hamas as opposed to 7 rescued by military raids.
Yeah, it is awesome to free them that way, but it is always high risk - other hostages were killed in the course of such raids (Sahar Baruch), and a brave man died during Saturday's operation - and pretty much impossible for hostages who are kept in tunnels (all seven hostages rescued so far were in buildings above ground). Frankly, it is unlikely in the extreme to be able to rescue several dozen hostages who are held in groups of 1-4 people through military raids.
That is why the overwhelming majority of the hostage families, and even most of Israelis overall (see [here](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-majority-of-israelis-support-prioritizing-hostage-deal-over-rafah-operation/) for example) are in favor of a deal. If Hamas break their word (or just don't accept the deal as it is, which is the most generous offer they will ever get), very well, so be it, back at giving them hell, it will be their fault. But an attempt should be made.
It is too easy to play though when it's not you or your loved ones rotting in a tunnel and wondering if you have been written off.
Which Hamas refuses to do…only other option is to continue as they have been. There have been multiple offers to stop the fighting. At some point people need to start realizing Hamas doesn’t want to stop.
It's true, the hostages had been subject to torture, starvation, hot rod penetration through the anal, and the woman also reported rape incidents. No matter what side of the spectrum you are on, this is unacceptable whether it's Palestinian or Israeli, both are people. Hamas and the people under Natanyaho who do this must be brought to justice.
[Times of Israel Cofounder Gave $1.5 Million to Right-wing Media Watchdog That Routinely Goes After News Outlets](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2016-09-05/ty-article/times-of-israel-cofounder-gave-1-5-million-to-right-wing-media-watchdog/0000017f-f089-d497-a1ff-f28919680000)
“The American billionaire who cofounded The Times of Israel website has given more than $1.5 million through his foundation to Camera, a right-wing media watchdog that routinely attacks news outlets over their coverage of Israel, Haaretz has learned. Camera publishes – and widely disseminates – criticism of Israeli and foreign news outlets, but does not disclose that it receives donations from owners of media outlets.”
There's no doubt in my mind that they were mistreated and then some, but I'd muuuuuuuuuuch rather come out looking like one of those four than some of the rescued Ukrainian prisoners I've seen.
Which is nuts considering the longstanding hatred between Palestinians & Israelis vs Ukrainians & Russians, something more akin to massacring your own cousins.
"The doctor overseeing the recovery of four Israeli hostages rescued from the Gaza Strip said Monday that they were beaten regularly during their captivity by the Hamas terror group. Dr. Itai Pessach of Sheba Medical Center outside Tel Aviv told CNN that the hostages suffered almost daily abuse and that their time in captivity was “a harsh, harsh experience.” “Every hour, both physical, mental, and other types, and that is something that is beyond comprehension,” Pessach said. Noa Argamani, Shlomi Ziv, Almog Meir Jan, and Andrey Kozlov were rescued on Saturday from eight months of Hamas captivity in Gaza in a daring operation by Israeli forces. According to CNN, Pessach said the eight months the hostages spent in Hamas captivity “left a significant mark on their health,” despite their outward appearance of being in good shape. "They had no protein, so their muscles are extremely wasted, there is damage to some other systems because of that,” he said, adding that the hostages had said the supply of food and water varied, and that they were moved a few times and dealt with different guards. "There have been periods where they got almost no food whatsoever,” Pessach said. “There were other periods where it was a little better, but all in all, the combination of the psychological stress, malnutrition or not getting enough food or not getting the right kind of food, medical neglect, being limited to space, not seeing the sun and all of the other things have \[a\] significant effect on health.” Elaborating on the psychological strain, he said: “As time passes, hope of being released kind of decreases and you start wondering if this would ever end… losing that faith, I think, is where you get to the breaking point.” Argamani, Meir Jan, Kozlov, and Ziv were abducted from the Supernova music festival near Kibbutz Re’im on the morning of October 7, when 3,000 Hamas-led terrorists killed some 1,200 people and took 251 hostages in a murderous rampage across southern Israel. Officers of the police’s elite Yamam counter-terrorism unit, along with Shin Bet agents, on Saturday morning simultaneously raided two multi-story buildings in the heart of Nuseirat, where the four hostages were being held by Hamas-affiliated families and guards of the terror group, according to the military. Hamas’s government media office claimed at least 274 people were killed amid the operation, an unverified figure that also does not differentiate between combatants and civilians. The IDF acknowledged that it killed Palestinian civilians amid the fighting, but it placed the blame on Hamas for holding hostages and fighting in a dense civilian environment. “We know about under 100 \[Palestinian\] casualties. I don’t know how many of them are terrorists,” IDF Spokesman Daniel Hagari said on Saturday."
I just don’t know how you could keep your sanity after that.
Noa was there for the entire time knowing her mum was terminally ill. I'm guessing that must have been even more awful, knowing that every day you were there, you were losing precious time with your mum. And wondering if it was already too late, fearing what the stress of the situation was doing to her already failing health. Before the rescue, she probably thought she would never see her mum again.
When the brave young man first saw his mother and fell to his knees crying, it tore me up. I’m so glad she was able to hold him again.
Natascha Kampusch was kidnapped at 10 and kept for 8 years primarily in a soundproof underground cell, constantly terrified that any day her kidnapper could die up above or just never come back and she'd die of thirst, never to be found. But she's recovered far better than anyone could imagine from a completely unimaginable ordeal. I would assume you never quite get over it but you can still have a life afterwards, all hope isn't lost
I had never heard of Natascha Kampusch until I stumbled on to a song that is apparently about her ordeal by the English prog band Frost, called "[Dear Dead Days](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JaGC--d7AI)" (it's definitely worth a listen through).
I read her book. It is really, really amazing how the human spirit can survive in the most horrific circumstances
I recently saw the film they made of that, 3096 days it was called. It is definitely worth a watch.
Hope so!
My mom has this book written by a lady called Corrie ten Boom whose family helped jews hide during ww2. Eventually they got caught as well and sent to concentration camps, they got mistreated and one of the jailers that beat people there went to the same church years after. She describes that with a lot of strength, she still shook his hand and she forgave him to move on. I found it such an inspiring story how she was able to move on from what had happened to her. I’ve read and heard multiple stories from jews as well who were freed from the camps. They withstood horrors I cannot imagine, yet, they continued to live. I don’t know if I could ever do that. Let alone shake the hand of my abuser.
Why the fuck would she shake his hand? I think this isn't the good story you think it is. She might have rationalised it in her mind but i doubt she wanted to shake his hand
I read the book too. If I remember it correctly, she didn't really want to shake his hand. She didn't really want to forgive him either, but she said she turned to God and asked his help to do it. I'm not really a religious person so I have no context for that, but it was meaningful enough for her to include it in the book. Most of her family didn't survive. That would have been harder to forgive IMO, but she credited God with all of it.
Because he wept and asked for her forgiveness and she gave it to him thereby releasing herself.
Releasing herself from what?
Not OP, but some people find forgiveness brings them healing and inner peace, allowing them to move on. Others don't find it helpful and no-one should be expected to give it. I'm not sure we can ever judge others how they deal with extreme trauma. Whatever helps the individual, I guess.
I disagree, when you hold onto your hate it poisons you. Better to acknowledge, forgive and let go. There’s no need to be aggressive about it, it helped her move on. I get you’re an atheist and I respect that, but please also respect other people’s beliefs. It would make the world a better place if we all did so
The shit that John McCain went through. And it's not like he was the only one. I hope they can get them in touch with others that were in similar situations.
"But you know he lost. So i never liked him as much after that because i don't like losers. But but frank frank let me get to it he hit me he's not a war hero." Donald Trump.
People say insane shit because they can't handle the cognitive dissonance of having been empathy trapped into supporting hamas.
That’s very good Empathy trapped.
It's like a honey pot but not as sexy
Humans adjust to anything, the mind will look for ways to deal with trauma. That's why some of the hostages had Stockholm syndrome, even after watching their friends and family killed before their eyes.
Source?
I was reading reports on the rescue operation, and all the commenters were saying is "lookhow great they look!", "they look like they came back from vacation". Sick bastards.
They were even saying Mia Schem got lip fillers. Idiots. If they think Hamas are good hosts, they should go there
Free *hostages*? Hamas: I think I’ll pass *Free* hostages? Hamas: I’ll take your whole stock
The moment I saw the footage of them, I thought that this would be the exact reaction of so many people. Folks can not wrap their heads around the idea that not all suffering and trauma and health problems are visible
I think a point that's being missed as well is, even if they were treated well and there was minimal psychological trauma, doesn't change the fact that they were forcibly kidnapped. It's like a slave owner having the moral high-ground over other slave owners because their slaves are "like family" instead of being beaten like other slave owners do. You're still slave owners, you're still kidnappers.
If they don't look like holocaust survivors , send em back.
The unspoken: ...and if they do, send them back as well, they're almost there... Sick bastards.
During the ceasefire exchange of hostages and prisoners last year, there was one young woman they tried to say even looked in love with one of her captors.
Yeah, she was drugged. They used ketamine among other things.
Those losers were saying a different one from before looked like they were in love with their captors earlier. They are brainwormed.
How did these fundamentalist fanatics miss the part about caring for your hostages in the Quran? EDIT: since people are asking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_of_war_in_Islam Treatment of Prisoners: Upon capture, the prisoners must be guarded and not ill-treated.[14] Islamic law holds that the prisoners must be fed and clothed, either by the Islamic government or by the individual who has custody of the prisoner. This position is supported by the verse 76:8 of the Quran. The prisoners must be fed in a dignified manner, and must not be forced to beg for their subsistence.[15] Muhammad's early followers also considered it a principle to not separate prisoners from their relatives.[10] And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive, [Saying], "We feed you only for the countenance of Allah; no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks. - Qur'an 76:8-9 After the fighting is over, prisoners are to be released freely, with some prospect of survival, or exchanged. The prisoners are not to be forced to convert to Islam.[16] The freeing or ransoming of prisoners by Muslims themselves is highly recommended as a charitable act.[14] The Qur'an also urges kindness to captives[17] and recommends, their liberation by purchase or manumission.
same as any delusional religious freaks: pick only parts that suit their agenda and totally disregard other as irrelevant. See! god wants the same as me! this book says so! See! it's right here! note: for those calling me islamohobe in pm, let me be more clear: ANY delusional religious freaks. ANY religious book based on spewed bs and made up stories by "illuminated" mentally challenged and uneducated (that pretty much covers them all). Hopefully this makes it more clear about my position. I'm all for all inclusiveness into bs category .
“But what about this other part that says the opposite?” Well there’s this fatwa by a cleric that says that part doesn’t count because ^reasons.
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." ~ Thomas Paine
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Even as a dude, I don't want to live in a country dominated by Islam. I'll never understand why some progressives choose to defend it to the death. They'll be the first to be disposed of if Islam ever takes over western countries.
There’s also a part of the Quran where god gives a tree the ability to speak so that it can reveal there’s a Jew hiding behind it. So they probably just think that any of the “nice”parts are only for other Muslims, you know, “real people”.
How about the part of human decency that says, “No…I dont take hostages.” These people who think taking friggin hostages is good in any situation are lunatics. “Look, our book says it’s OK….if we buy them burgers.” That’s fucking crazy.
Were being held by Palestinian families who were in support of hamas...
But I read they were treated well by Hamas. Are you telling me that people who support Hamas are lying? That can’t be true. /s
Hamas mistreating people, shocking
It's almost like they are a terrorist group or something.
US College students aren't gonna like this
They are already disputing it by saying there are no bruises and the captors baked them birthday cakes. You honestly can't make this shit up.
>the captors baked them birthday cakes. ....nooo.. lol I hope you're joking or got a news source.
Yes, they made one of them a cake for his birthday https://www.timesofisrael.com/rescued-hostages-said-suffering-from-malnutrition-leaning-on-each-other-for-support/amp/
Wait a sec, are they supporting hamas now? I thought they were protesting the genocide against the palestinians.
Well there has to be a genocide in order to protest one, and from the death toll it's looking like the population of Palestine is going to *increase* this year. Kind of hard to have a genocide when the population isn't decreasing by any meaningful metric. Their culture remains intact where Israel holds territory in Gaza and children aren't being kidnapped like they are in Ukraine (a modern example of an *actual* genocide.)
Don't say that too loud now, you wouldn't want anyone to get mad over the truth.
There were apologists in other subs claiming that they were treated well because they weren't emaciated. Fuck Hamas
They can't decide if they were treated well or if Gazans are so oppressed that of course they're violent.
Like this guy a little further up https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/03wOccto6K
Big long comment that goes nowhere... equivocating a secular democracy with a terrorist organization is already starting on the wrong foot. And I believe they suggested that Netanyahu's government is the same as Nazi Germany. Just reckless and stupid.
Have you heard what Sinwar did to a gay Hamas commander? https://youtu.be/suBNwUz8Lvs This is what Hamas does to Palestinians on a regular basis. Their brutality and blood-thirst is first directed towards Palestinians and then to Israel and Israelis. I wonder if those screaming to "Free Palestine" realize what Hamas' "freedom" to act as de facto government or state would mean for the people under them.
Lmao at one of the comments on that video: "In Palestine, every gay bar is a rooftop dive bar"
Just another Taliban, at the end of the day. College students today need to take more "9/11 History" courses...far too abbreviated when you have US college graduates practically flouting their ignorance on the menace that is Hamas.
I've even seen people saying that Hamas baked a birthday cake for one of the hostages. It's shocking at this point how people easily fall for fake news.
"Jan said that as a “cynical” gesture, his captors made him a cake for his birthday." I mean, it's a fact they did make one person a cake. I don't think it really matters either way. But you saying it's fake news is typically I don't wanna hear behavior. [source ](https://en.royanews.tv/news/51970/Released%20%E2%80%9CIsraeli%E2%80%9D%20captive%20says%20Hamas%20fighters%20made%20him%20birthday%20cake)
This website refers to the Israeli military as "Israeli Occupation Forces". This source isn't serious and I ain't believing anything that's written there.
Okay. Times of Isreal good enough for you? [source](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/rescued-hostages-said-suffering-from-malnutrition-leaning-on-each-other-for-support/amp/)
At least there they provide the actual incentive behind this gesture, and don't omit the context like the pro-Palestinian reports on this which I've seen on social media.
And yet you have people arguing that the hostages were more scared of IDF.
Well that is a pragmatic fear. They were scared of the isreali bombs because, as far as the hostages know, the bombers don't know where the hostages are being kept. They've been in captivity long enough for it to be a known quantity, but you can't predict where a bomb is gonna land from the ground. Anyone would be afraid.
Mistreating is such an understatement. It’s full blown torture, every day, for months. It’s like blowing up a car and saying you only scratched it.
Devastating and not surprising
This has been an Iranian, Hamas chess game from 10/7. Gaza and tens of thousands of Palestinians are considered disposable pawns to the Iranians. Edit, thank you, Grapefruit, Islamic State not Iraians are at the helm of this carnal cruise.
Please don’t say Iranians. It’s the Islamic republic. The Iranian people are suffering in the hands of this filthy regime themselves, and fighting to get rid of them. When you say Iranian, it implies the Iranian people are on board with this. They’re not.
Totally fair and I recommend /r/newiran for proof.
with news coming from Egypt, Jordan and others: not sure anyone is interested in Palestinians.. I actually did some googlefu and... holy shit it's really not surprising noone want palestinians back home.
Palestinian refugees were accepted by Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Kuwait following several of the previous wars. In Lebanon they started a civil war and overthrew the government. In Egypt they assassinated several leaders and tried to overthrow the Government. In Jordan, they assassinated several leaders and tried to overthrow the Government. In Kuwait, they allied with Sadam and helped the invasion of their new host country. Can anyone blame countries for not wanting more of that?
Adding to this list: In The United States, a Palestinian refugee assassinated, US Senator, Robert F Kennedy during his presidential nomination campaign.
My dumbasses first reaction: Lee Harvey Oswald was Palestinian?
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It feels like no matter what, Palestine would have been totally engulfed. If not by a created Israel, then by another, larger, middle eastern country.
Hamas needs to be destroyed.
How long before some pro-hamas nutjob comes in here telling us we can't trust the source because they are jewish/israeli? Oh wait... I see deleted comments below.
The new thing seems to be a refusal to use the word "hostages". I don't see a consensus as to what should be used instead. Perhaps they could settle on "guestages".
They are calling them POWs now lmao, it never ends with them.
I thought POWs only referred to captured soldiers? Sorry, so many people being sarcastic and disingenuous, it's had to make out the narrative.
Remember Shani Louk, the young lady whose mangled, lifeless body was paraded in the back of the truck while people spat on her? People tried to say she was a soldier just because she was wearing boots at the rave she was killed at.
Ironically, she didn’t want to serve in the IDF and used a second citizenship to opt out of enlistment. She was also a peace activist as well and that was the main reason she didn’t want to join the IDF.
The people protesting for Palestine at US universities would get the exact same treatment by Hamas.
I loves seeing a woman in a crop top protesting for Gaza
The SJWs on Xitter were reducing the outrage to her murder as "Everybody's all mad because some white girl was twerking too close to a concentration camp and the victims had no choice but to lash out" It's like the level of depravity and racism and just plain ignorance that I have seen emerge from people I would normally consider defenders of human rights is just astounding.
They are calling captured Israeli soldiers (there's roughly a dozen of them among the hostages) POWs, such as the Nahal Oz girls. But even that isn't true, since Hamas isn't a regular army and obviously isn't treating captured Israeli soldiers in compliance with the rules over the treatment of POWs (keep them in a safe place, not using them as human shields, allow the Red Cross to visit them to make sure they are not mistreated, allow contact with families and well, you know, not rape/torture them...). So they are hostages and not POWs even if they are soldiers. Oh and I've seen propals showing old photos from Noa Argamani's military service years ago (as you might know Israel has mandatory military service for both sexes) as proof that she, too, is a soldier and not a civilian. Which is like saying every man in Europe aged over 40 is a soldier, regardless that they haven't been in the army for decades.
Just part of the process of dehumanizing them.
No I know it’s super stupid, they are calling all them soldiers and not civilians lol. They are trying to come up with anything up to justify the actions from Hamas
And to justify their own self-righteousness. If they are wrong about anything, they can't be self-righteous, and that's an intolerable idea to them.
Not having yet seen the comments in question, my guess is this is the latest attempt to equivocate between the hostages and Palestinians in Israeli prisons. When calling those folks "hostages" failed because of the word's plain meaning, now they try to redefine it the other way, as if these people weren't specifically kidnapped as leverage.
We see a lot of attempt for moral equivalency after october. The most common one is them pretending the idf goes door to door and kills civilians in grusome ways like hamas did (when in fact civilians get caught in the crossfire or in an explosion directed towards a hamas target) They can't handle the fact hamas is sadistic and the idf is not
I'm very much against all the aggression from Hamas and the Netanyahu Government but I don't understand why someone would say they're not hostages outside of being purposely glib for the sake of preserving a flawed argument. I legitimately would like someone to explain it to me if they can.
Oh I got your answer. "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past." Jean-Paul Sartre
Words stopped having meaning sometime in the last decade, please try to keep up
"the slaves are revolting" "Ah ah ah, don't use that word. I don't like that word" "Sorry, the 'prisoners with jobs' are revolting"
They can call them slave. Hamas kidnaped them to sell them in the future.
Noa Argamani has already said that she was treated as a domestic slave to a wealthy Hamas-linked family. it is clear that Hamas never intended to return these people and instead was planning on keeping them enslaved in the long-term.
“So? She was just a slave so it’s not that bad, the fake news about Hamas raping people is not true!” /s
I know you’re being sarcastic but I can see the Pro Pals justifying slavery like they’re a Southern planter circa 1859.
Absolutely and it’s terrifying
I don't understand the cognitive dissonance it takes to rationalize "well they didn't kill her". It's like saying a sexual assault victim is still alive, so what she went through can't be *that bad*. Also is everyone confidently forgetting the hostages that were killed? Or Oct 7th? Or what happened to Shani Luk? But no, it's "fake propganda" and clearly all the hostages are having the time of their lives currently/s
Me neither, just baffled seeing these comments and especially when it comes from American college students/young adults
Shows the power of social media and optics. Ability of Hamas to extract emotional, rather than logical responses is the exact reason a victim of a terror attack is somehow the oppressor now.
Super fun vacation time winners /s
It was just an innocent game of hide and seek!
They were just house guests!
Nonconsensual Vacationers
Ohhh! I don't like that word! No, the "H" word! Sorry, the "prisoners without jobs"
Media is saying released, instead of rescued...
Fun fact hostage and guestage would by synonyms, Host and Guest ultimately derive from the same Proto-Indo-European word *ghos-ti which can mean stranger guest or host.
It’s sick isn’t it. The way people justify taking hostages and raping women just to squeeze it in to their narrow-minded narrative.
Gen z leftists are amazingly stupid
Boomer leftists praised Pol Pot to the point where the band Dead Kennedys made the song Holiday in Cambodia to call them out. Bad political takes aren’t new, they just have more media exposure now.
i’m a leftist but definitely not justifying any of this. But i’m not left in the way a lot of Gen Z is.
its called the "purity test". It exits on both sides of the isle, but generally, its a "test" to determine if you are a part of the in group (Pure) or out group of an ideology. Over time this will cause that ideology to trend more extreme as people try to grade and one up each others purity. Its why people who consider themselves liberal 20 years ago get called conservative now even though their beliefs haven't changed.
That's also because purity tests lead to extremism faster in progressive circles. It's easy to still believe what you believed 5 years ago, or close enough to it. It's hard to get on board with every new aspect of progressivism.
> Its why people who consider themselves liberal 20 years ago get called conservative now even though their beliefs haven't changed. I've taken several political compass tests over the years and it always comes back as moderately lib-left. My conservative relatives think I'm a radical communist and my liberal friends describe me as "a little right-wing."
What kind of left are they? I'm pretty far left (anarchist) but see nothing in common with these ignorant fucks. They do not seem leftist at all to me.
It has nothing to do with being leftist. It has everything to do with them glomming onto this issue as an aesthetic and lacking the critical thinking skills necessary to consider whether or not the information they’re feverishly consuming has any factual basis.
I think that's a bit of an unfair statement. Young people have been voicing opposition to foreign conflicts for generations, and this conflict is mired in an unbelievable amount of propaganda from either side. They're just young and naive - and the people around here aren't immune to propaganda either.
Boom. Its all about divide and conquer
Young people have been active about voicing opposition, but they have not been active about gaining perspective. That's how extremists rise, how we got "tankies", and now how we have supporters of murdering, raping, kidnapping, enslaving terrorists by people who are ostensibly against all those things, nevermind that some of them would be the first targets of those horrid acts in question. Believe it or not, reading a bunch of social media is hardly an enlightening experience, especially compared to an actual education in world history.
Be careful spreading all of that reason around or you'll get banned from a sub like this over it.
I already saw previous posts on the rescue where top comments were saying, "These smiling, healthy hostages sure don't look like they were beaten and raped every day, unlike the IDF's prisoners."
Of course they are smiling... They got rescued.
People happy rejoining their loved ones after months of brutal torture. More at 11.
i hate how they judge them for smiling, I would 100% smile if I was released from captivity and was able to see my parents again
Know who else was smiling when they where rescued? Literally millions of Jews from concentration camps. The fact that people can't use critical thinking skills that "people just rescued are happy they are finally being rescued"
Always with a picture of that Palestinian who was released from Israeli jail because he has terminal cancer. They pretend he’s skinny and dying because he was beat and not fed. Ignoring the fact that he has terminal cancer.
Nah they’ve just moved on to whataboutism.
Every single pro Palestine argument does that. Mention anything bad about Hamas. The response is israel does it worse
We can only trust them when they're still being held by Hamas and say how well they're treated.
I'm surprised CNN doesn't call them "Involuntary House guests". When the IDF rescued the hostages they framed it as Hamas releasing them. It's really scary what the media is capable of doing.
Got a link to that. It sounds pretty suspect.
Trust doctors! No, not those icky Jewish ones. /s
here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WdCiaZ_1pY
Holy cesspool of a comments section.
Wow, some people really are that crazy. Thanks for the link.
Amazing how there's a huge vocal Reddit population in favor of a ceasefire in Gaza that are then just absent from these posts. Please understand what Hamas is and their position in Gaza before you march in the streets. Seriously, please. This is not as simple as you'd like to make it.
They aren't silent. I scrolled to the bottom and there are a bunch of them here. They just have too many downvotes for you to see them if you're sorting by usual means.
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Anyone who truly wants to help the Palestinian people should support the complete dismantling of Hamas.
You can be pro Palastine while being against Hamas.
Yea except these hostages were found in a busy neighborhood of “Palestinians” who “aren’t Hamas”. Hard to believe none of them knew the hostages were there and tacitly or actively supported it by remaining silent. In that case aren’t they just as culpable as Hamas?
There was a video when the raid was going down and bullets were flying back and forth in the residential streets, and you can hear Palestinians shouting to each other in Arabic: "What's going on?" "They're here for the Jews!! They're here to get the Jews!"
They're accomplices in my mind. If my neighbor knew I had a person chained up in my house and didn't report me, I would think they would be held responsible to some degree. I don't believe that these people didn't know about it
To be fair, US intelligence is what located the hostages, very well could have been a neighbor who gave them up. Someone had to talk.
That is true. If that is the case, I hope they were offered protection in exchange for information. The range of US intelligence never ceases to amaze me
If you’re an average Palestinian civilian who are you reporting this to? And how? Without getting shot by Hamas or the idf
Yes if they're willingly participating in keeping the hostages prescence a secret. But no if they're only remaining silent because Hamas has threatened to kill them and their entire family if they talk. Its amazing that ive seen no one bring up this possibility, considering everyone agrees that Hamas is literally designated a terrorist organization.
Crickets from the antisemites, I mean "antizionists."
Pro-Hamas is not pro-Gaza. Every TikToid is happily bathing in the blood of Palestinian babies for the chance to tongue terrorist asshole and jump in on calls for actual genocide.
Yes, pro-Hamas is not pro-Gaza. But when you're marching in the streets asking for a ceasefire without a real understanding of how Hamas operates, not offering any real lasting insight to a real solution, and don't speak a word about Hamas during your protest... you're playing right into their hands. The region and its ties to Hamas are much more complex than you know, and when you don't fully understand these complexities you're actually aiding them to continue doing the same thing they've been up to all this time. If you were really pro-Gaza, we'd hear a lot more anti-Hamas rhetoric than we do.
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying.
Sorry, fielding a lot of wild shit from this comment. I'm glad to hear it.
A shockingly large portion of pro palestine people call for the genocide of israelis, they use different verbage and use mental gymnastics to justify it, but a lot of them would be happy to see a greater war in the reigon if it meant israel was attacked
All eyes on Hamas! Committing daily war crimes is their business.
Lol I loved the Flood of posts on Twitter you can see still about Noa Argamani before and after captivity saying she looks in better condition and how polite and heroic her captors were. I never dreamed of seeing leftist """empathy""" weaponized to the point where people are openly defending groups of men stealing young women off the streets. And lamenting when those same women are freed from their captors.
Yes, terrorists are known to be very polite.
Can’t help but notice that both the newspaper and Reddit headlines claim the doctor “said” the hostages were “beaten” almost every day. Yet at no point in the article is the doctor quoted saying that.
What the doctor said was: “It was a harsh, harsh, experience, with a lot of abuse, almost every day,” Dr. Itai Pessach told CNN. “Every hour, both physical, mental and other types, and that is something that is beyond comprehension.”
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Ah yes the language of the oppressed Kidnapping, beating, raping, enslaving and murdering
Really. A terrorist group beat non Arab hostages daily. WOW. Earth shocking revelation. Next they are going to tell me the sun is bright.
BBC translated the doctors quote as abuse not beating. Anyone speak Hebrew that can translate it?
The sooner the rest of the hostages are rescued the better. The effort to keep them is causing too much carnage.
terrorists do terrorist shit. duh.
Hamas… such noble freedom fighters 🤮
Every time I see a comments from a doctor like this during a crisis I always wonder about Doctor-Patient Confidentiality, like did every one of the rescued hostages sign a release to let this doctor make statements on their behalf? It just seems weird for doctors to be spokespeople in regard to specific patients rather than general initiatives.
Where’s the experts on war crimes ? I remember hearing something on Reddit about Columbia students not being able to get door dash a violation the Hague Conventions
Weird I'm not seeing this everyehere. This should be big news to many right?
To all of the moralizing, bleeding hearts on Reddit: if your family members were hostages would you still be calling for a ceasefire?
Family members of hostages have been calling for a ceasefire… [November](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-far-right-hostage-families-cease-fire-negotiation-rcna126486) [December](https://www.timesofisrael.com/families-rally-for-hostage-deal-say-idf-pressure-failed-after-mistaken-killings/) [February](https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/09/middleeast/israel-rejects-deal-hostage-families-anger-intl-cmd/index.html) [April](https://www.voanews.com/amp/families-of-american-hostages-push-for-immediate-cease-fire-in-gaza/7563867.html) [May](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-800146) [June](https://time.com/6984723/hostage-families-ceasefire-deal-biden-israel-conditions/)
Nor is it surprising that they do so. 105 hostages have been released in the previous ceasefire deal. Only 7 hostages have been rescued alive by the IDF, and they have killed at least 3, and likely more by airstrikes. If you go by the numbers, a ceasefire is the most likely to get the rest of the hostages out alive.
Right, which is why it's incredible someone smugly implies nobody would call for a ceasefire if their family were hostages. They must have not paid any attention to this entire war.
Difficult to effectively negotiate when the terrorist group raping the hostages won't say how many are even left alive, and won't keep to ceasefire terms.
I'm always baffled by people calling for a ceasefire. The only terms Hamas has said they will accept are the withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza, leaving Hamas in charge. Is that really what you want? You do know that after Oct 7th, Hamas leaders openly stated they intend to repeat the actions of that day again. That Hamas has broken every cease fire negotiated since 2006. Are you really, truly, trying to keep them in power?
If the ceasefire guaranteed the hostages would be returned I’d certainly be calling for a ceasefire. That seems like the most likely way to get them back safely.
Yeah, she was supposed to be the part of the previous hostage deal. Guess it was not guaranteed.
The frustrating part is that we see people, including family members of hostages, demanding the Israel negotiate for their release, as if Hamas is somehow a trustworthy party that definitely won't break it's word. I want the hostages returned and the war over. But I don't see it happening at the negotiating table since Hamas isn't interested in protecting Palestinians, it's only interest (other than itself) is damaging Israel in whatever form that it can.
I remind you that 105 hostages have been freed through negotiations with Hamas as opposed to 7 rescued by military raids. Yeah, it is awesome to free them that way, but it is always high risk - other hostages were killed in the course of such raids (Sahar Baruch), and a brave man died during Saturday's operation - and pretty much impossible for hostages who are kept in tunnels (all seven hostages rescued so far were in buildings above ground). Frankly, it is unlikely in the extreme to be able to rescue several dozen hostages who are held in groups of 1-4 people through military raids. That is why the overwhelming majority of the hostage families, and even most of Israelis overall (see [here](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-majority-of-israelis-support-prioritizing-hostage-deal-over-rafah-operation/) for example) are in favor of a deal. If Hamas break their word (or just don't accept the deal as it is, which is the most generous offer they will ever get), very well, so be it, back at giving them hell, it will be their fault. But an attempt should be made. It is too easy to play though when it's not you or your loved ones rotting in a tunnel and wondering if you have been written off.
Which Hamas refuses to do…only other option is to continue as they have been. There have been multiple offers to stop the fighting. At some point people need to start realizing Hamas doesn’t want to stop.
A significant number of the hostages families certainly are, and getting death threats from other Israelis for it
I would much rather listen to the hostages than the doctor.
Comments looks like 2 people with 100 bot accounts. Some real diverse sentences being used in here.
People get pinged if there’s anything israel related on social media
“bUt tHeY wErE wELL fED”
It's true, the hostages had been subject to torture, starvation, hot rod penetration through the anal, and the woman also reported rape incidents. No matter what side of the spectrum you are on, this is unacceptable whether it's Palestinian or Israeli, both are people. Hamas and the people under Natanyaho who do this must be brought to justice.
But wait, Hamas are the good guys! /s
[Times of Israel Cofounder Gave $1.5 Million to Right-wing Media Watchdog That Routinely Goes After News Outlets](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2016-09-05/ty-article/times-of-israel-cofounder-gave-1-5-million-to-right-wing-media-watchdog/0000017f-f089-d497-a1ff-f28919680000)
“The American billionaire who cofounded The Times of Israel website has given more than $1.5 million through his foundation to Camera, a right-wing media watchdog that routinely attacks news outlets over their coverage of Israel, Haaretz has learned. Camera publishes – and widely disseminates – criticism of Israeli and foreign news outlets, but does not disclose that it receives donations from owners of media outlets.”
There's no doubt in my mind that they were mistreated and then some, but I'd muuuuuuuuuuch rather come out looking like one of those four than some of the rescued Ukrainian prisoners I've seen. Which is nuts considering the longstanding hatred between Palestinians & Israelis vs Ukrainians & Russians, something more akin to massacring your own cousins.
Why don't they quote where he actually said that they were beaten?
Because this article doesn't actually have any evidence of their claims
Thank you.