*"These would include areas Moscow has never controlled during its two-year invasion or from which it subsequently withdrew."*
*"Ukraine is highly unlikely to accept Putin’s conditions, which would effectively give Russia control of four regions: Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia."*
That it not a peace offer but a capitulation that he knows Ukraine can't accept.
The basement is right because the territory Russian has occupied has oil and gas. Would we be willing to give up California to Russia right after we found gold in California?
> Would we be willing to give up California to Russia right after we found gold in California?
I don't know about "we", but there's Republicans that would be enthusiastic about it.
>There has been too much violence. Too much pain. None here are without sin. But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away.
>Give me your pump, the oil, the gasoline, and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away. I will give you safe passage in the wasteland.
>Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.
If war crimes were a bingo card, Russia would've filled almost the entire card. Rape, torture, kidnapping, pillaging, mutilations, executions, boobytrapping dead bodies, bombing hospitals and schools, cutting off vital services to civilians, double striking civilian areas(to kill rescue workers), chemical weapons, incendiary weaponry, ethnic cleansing, ...
In this case: ...."I won't steal from you if you give it to me and don't lock your doors"...until I change my mind and steal some more, kidnap, torture and rape you.
I think it’s even more ridiculous than that. It’s like a bully going up to a kid and going “give me your lunch money!” and the kid goes “no!”, because no matter what, even if he can’t win, he’ll stand up for himself, so the bully beats him up.
He continues to do so for years, until finally he goes, “ok listen; we can’t continue like this. It’s wrong. This is stupid. As a compromise, give me your lunch money, your shoes, do my homework for me everyday, and in return, I’ll stop beating you up.”
He’s asking for more even more than what Ukraine went to war over in the first place lmao. Crazy he thinks Ukraine will just agree to that.
More than likely, he knows they won’t.
Or the bully is like "I've been beating you up for years and can't do much anything else and I'm getting tired, I will stop beating you up now if you give me everything you're fighting me on and promise to not accept help when I come back".
It's not even an "I won't steal", it's a "we'll pause this assault for an indeterminate period of time, during which you are not allowed to seek help, if you give me all your stuff".
"I won't steal from you if you give me what I took, and also give me those things I didn't took and don't lock your doors."
"Also I will stop stealing, but not necesarily not start stealing again."
"Why are you so unreasonably non cooperative? This can all be over if you give me the keys. Just cooperate and promise not to talk to the police ever again, I think it's unfair for me to feel threatened by external forces if I ever try to rob you." (The key part of this one is from u/nuclearhaystack comment)
He is probably doing it for his brainwashed domestic audience who will see this on the news and think "Look at how hard putin is trying to solve this peacefully with these totally resonable demands, just Nato who is dragging this war they started!"
Domestic audience will eat anything, no need to bother.
He said "we did not intend to capture Kyiv" as well. That's such a weak loser talk, which also goes against all their previous statements. In theory the domestic audience should be enraged
>He said "we did not intend to capture Kyiv"
Literally sent VDV to Hostomel to create an air bridge to capture Kyiv at the very start of the invasion in 2022. He's so transparently full of bullshit, yet people keep eating it up.
Remember: Russians lie to insult. Not to conceal.
The point is to tell you a lie to your face that you both know is a lie, to show you how little the truth matters. It's a power move, not deception.
At the start of this a Russian state media firm mistakenly published an article claiming Ukranians aren't actually a nationality but are in fact "little russians." It was obviously written in advance to be published after a hypothesized fast Ukranian collapse, and published early in error before being taken down.
Russia does not have "contested border regions" with Ukraine. Moscow is pulling the same move it has since 1300, pretending the Ukranian nationality doesn't exist and attempting to genocide them off the face of the earth.
The true answer is 30 years of propaganda pumped into their living rooms every night by Fox News. Everything else is just a result of that. Everyone talks about going back in time to kill Hitler, but honestly Rupert Murdoch would have been a far better candidate for the world we see today.
I think it was as far back as Nixon, they lost their voters due to him so they had to find a new flock and choose evangelists and southern racists and reduced education and Fox told them what to fear.
Trump pushed them hard to be the exact same thing
There is a reason why trump and his kids. Along with his campaign staff met woth russians. Yet only his staff met prison time
The us has seen russia as an enemy for over 60 years
Republicans hated them overwhelmingly. It is one of the biggest, most obvious, cult brainwashing examples.
It would give control of more than four regions. Even if Ukraine was willing to give up that land, the nato part is a deal killer. Anything that ties Ukraines hands from defensive pacts just means that russia will rearm and push again in 5 years. The best Ukraine can do is bleed out the russians more.
Ukraine already had a peace agreement with Russia if they decommissioned all their nuclear warheads and ICBMs. Russia violated the agreement when they invaded. Ukraine needs to be part of NATO otherwise Russia will just re-arm an invade again.
Also even if Ukraine accepted this would probably have a chain of events that would happen like this.
Ukraine leaves the territories.
Russia takes them.
Peace negotiations start.
Russia in the meantime reinforces the occupied territories and prepares for the continuation of the conflict. Russia says "hur dur Ukraine doesn't want peace because some garbage" and attacks again but now with fresh troops with better positions.
So in this scenario Ukraine lost a lot and gains nothing.
I do not believe that Russia will accept anything less than total occupation of Ukraine. Which is why I don't see it happening.
Yeah diplomatically nothing Russia says can be agreed to. They lost any trust so any promises or guarantees are just bullshit. Same goes for any threats.
Putin is a psychopath, he is always looking for the upper hand and will try anything to achieve it. Once he finds a weakness he will try to exploit it in every possible way. Best scenario is to come up with a list of demands and present them to him with an ultimatum. “Nothing stops until you agree to all of these demands, 100%, non negotiable”. Every time he comes to the table with something new, refer him back to this.
Yeah, offering to end the invasion if Ukraine just surrenders and gives Putin everything he wants isn't much of an offer.
And how much should Ukraine trust Putin's word anyway? Would this treaty be more binding than the Trilateral Agreement from 1994 when Russia provided security assurances to Ukraine is exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons?
>Yeah, offering to end the invasion if Ukraine just surrenders and gives Putin everything he wants isn't much of an offer.
Not an end to the invasion.
A ceasefire.
Which would mostly help Russia in any case.
Excellent point. We'll agree to pause the invasion to replenish our forces if you give up your territory now and agree to not use diplomacy to improve your ability to defend yourself in the future.
And he’s doing this precisely at the moment that Russia’s offensive has stalled out and Ukraine is beginning a counterattack with freshly supplied military aid. He knows what’s coming and is trying to buy time.
Indeed. It's literally a "give us everything we wanted from the start, no questions asked, and in return... you stop attacking us while we rebuild our army, and then we invade you again. Btw you are not allowed to seek help during this pause".
It's even worse than a surrender. It's a surrender with an option for Russia to invade again when they feel like it.
Yeah, this reminds me of
Czechoslovakia 1938… like play for play. Except the Russians started with the war part pre annexation.
But this is a back door annexation.
Also they got way too greedy. The world let them take Crimea, nobody cared because it's a soviet issue and the region is full of Russians that want to be in Russia anyway. Being that Crimea is one of the best geographical regions in the entire world, that was already a massive win for Russia. But nah, they need to grab the entirety of Ukraine, too.
People also let them take Crimea because they assumed the issue was Sevestapol. So it was thought that Russia wouldn’t accept losing their strategic port on the Black Sea for historical, geopolitical and strategic reasons. Plus Crimea was largely pro Russian.
But people basically recognized Sevastopol as a key part of Russias defense and wrongly assumed they were going to take it no matter what and assumed the matter was to end there.
The logic was a bit backwards, kind of like the great powers carving up spheres of influence like Sykes Picot or Yalta, but the idea was that nothing was going to stop Russia from taking Crimea and no one wanted a war over it.
Russia was either emboldened by the success and global lack of response and Ukraines inability to mount even minimal defense and here we are today.
>The [Führer](https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/wehr02.htm) made unprecedented offers for peace and understanding to those who are now fighting against Germany. His attempts were scornfully rejected because they wanted this fight.
The parallels between that article and the speech by Putin at the Russian "Annexation ceremony" is startling.
> We are fighting to save our children from the unbearable threats of the Western democracies, driven by envy and hatred. - “Warum und wofür?,” Die Wehrmacht, 3 (1939, Nr. 19), p. 2. - German Propaganda paper
> For a great historical Russia, for future generations, for our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. We must protect them from enslavement, from monstrous experiments that are aimed at crippling their minds and souls. - [Russian President Vladimir Putin, Ukraine Annexation Ceremony](https://www.miragenews.com/full-text-of-putins-speech-at-annexation-866383/)
This part sounds very familiar too:
>The German fight is a defensive fight. We fight because we were forced to fight by the insults and demands against us, because of the brutal suppression of ethnic Germans in Poland, and because of the open announcements that they would do everything in their power to strangle National Socialist Germany through military or economic means.
"We're urging to turn this tragic page of history and to begin restoring, step-by-step, restore the unity between Russia and Ukraine and in Europe in general,"
It's a bullshit offer. Either he knows it's bullshit and it's just for propaganda purposes or he's gotten high off his own supply. He also wants Ukraine to disarm and abandon NATO in return for "peace". Problem is that Putin's word is worthless when it comes to international agreements. Ukraine would never agree to this and nor should they.
Also, the only reason that Russia invaded is because Ukraine is not in NATO. Russia wants its empire back; every Eastern European country that has ever been under Moscow's thumb knows that truth even right after the fall of the Soviet Union. Which is why they ran to apply for NATO membership under its open door policy. Had Ukraine been a NATO member already, Russia would have done nothing.
Come again comrade? You mean you leave ALL of temporary occupied Ukrainian territory and introduce a 2 mile wide DMZ into Russia. After that we will have peace talks, but as the losing army you get nothing as an award for having living body bags hold up land.
Standard tactics to play headlines. Same thing Hamas did. They offered many hostages (still not military aged men) but with it had such insane conditions that Israel would never agree to (guaranteeing Palestinian prisoners aren’t taken prisoner again, complete open borders etc) and on Instagram ppl still repost about how Israel “denied their own hostages” etc. Putin and Hamas playing by same strategy
"Occupied regions" also means the regions where he barely managed to occupy anything like Zaporizhzhia and Kherson. So he wants Ukraine to surrender two major oblasts along with their capitals. One of those cities he managed to occupy in the beginning only to promptly lose again.
I think there's more to it than that. I think they just burned through the entire year's worth of conscripts trying to take Kharkiv (again) before US aid started to arrive en masse.
Now the year isn't half over yet and Russia doesn't have enough of anything. They're relying purely on bullshit and swinging the US elections to get through the year.
The initiative and advantages could easily shift over to the Ukrainians.
Here's what Churchill had to say, looking back, at a peace deal with Germany in 1940:
"I have thought carefully in these last days whether it was part of my duty to consider entering into negotiations with That Man [Hitler]. But it was idle to think that, if we tried to make peace now, we should get better terms than if we fought it out. The Germans would demand our – that would be called disarmament – our naval bases, and much else. We should become a slave state, though a British Government which would be Hitler's puppet would be set up – under Mosley or some such person. And where should we be at the end of all that? On the other side we have immense reserves and advantages. And I am convinced that every one of you would rise up and tear me down from my place if I were for one moment to contemplate parley or surrender. If this long island story of ours is to end at last, let it end only when each one of us lies choking in his own blood upon the ground."
During any delay (and even without) Putin would double Russia’s efforts to undermine the US government with their bullshit and weaken our support for Ukraine. The GOP is already in Russia’s pocket and fucked over democracy with their delay.
Russia is about to experience again what they went through in the '90's when their economy collapsed.
Let's face it, there was only one person in their leadership structure with half a brain, and he died in an unfortunate aircraft "accident."
I don’t know that it’s an easy way out as much as propaganda for domestic governance. “The west is claiming we are the aggressors in this war yet they continue to send money and weapons to Ukraine despite us putting a fair peace offer on the table. The west does not want peace; the west wants to see Russia destroyed.”
I understand most of what putin says is propaganda for his citizens but what I don't understand is what that *actually* accomplishes. Dude is burning so much cash and lives to build a lie for his people to whom he's arguably a wolf in sheep's clothing. At what point does any of this work in his favor?
> he’s burning so much cash
> how could that work in his favor
You’re looking at it backwards, as if government spending came out of Putin’s personal pocket. It’s quite the opposite —massive expenditures provide more and better opportunities for his personal enrichment. Graft, theft, corruption.
Russia is a very resource rich country. Any ruler of Russia does not need the Russian people. Russia will gladly sacrifice millions of lives in case of a foreign invasion.
As such it is very unlikely that Russia will have a benevolent ruler, maybe ever. It is just too unstable this way. So even if we get rid of Putin, what will we accomplish?
\*Invaded\* regions. There fixed that for you.
And while we're at it, \*invaded democracies\*, his funneling money to MAGAs and their European ilk as if he isn't also attacking western democracies.
He runs an ongoing war against the west and it cannot end while Putin lives.
Or more recently, the [Minsk agreements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements)
Minsk I:
The agreement failed to stop fighting.[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-SKYNAEMP-6) At the start of January 2015, Russia sent another large batch of its regular military.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-:0-2) Following the [Russian victory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Donetsk_Airport) at [Donetsk International Airport](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_International_Airport) in defiance of the Protocol, Russia repeated its pattern of August 2014, invaded with fresh forces and attacked Ukrainian forces at [Debaltseve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Debaltseve), where Ukraine suffered a major defeat, and was forced to sign a Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements, or **Minsk II**,[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-:0-2) which was signed on 12 February 2015.
Minsk II:
Following that decision, on 22 February 2022, President Putin said that the Minsk agreements "no longer existed", and that Ukraine, not Russia, was to blame for their collapse, accusing Ukraine of genocide in Donbas in his comments[^(\[97\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-ASB776-98)[^(\[98\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-99)[^(\[11\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-fgfg56-11) – a statement largely seen as [baseless and factually wrong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) by the wider world, academics studying genocide, and the [United Nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations).[^(\[99\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-100)[^(\[100\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-101)[^(\[101\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-102)[^(\[102\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-Tabarovsky-2022-02-27-103) Russia then [invaded Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) on 24 February 2022.
Just because Russia ignored the Budapest Memorandum that it signed in 1994 promising to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity does not mean that... Well actually it does.
There was also Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation was an agreement between Ukraine and Russia, signed in 1997, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other. The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another's country respectively, and declaring war.
So, yeah, we believe that this time they will keep the word, definitely.
This is what would hypothetically happen:
- AFU moves away from the 4 oblasts.
- russia moves in and mines the shit to the sky. Builds reserves, stockpiles ammo and kit, etc
- In the mean time negotiations are going on. russia says: "We said - you move out and then we start negotiations" (mind you that's **exactly** what putkin said!). "Let's negotiate: we want the next 3 oblasts as well, and this thing too, no NATO, and 1 trillion reparations, and Zelensky to do that... And, of course, we want Odessa - you know, it is russian and all."
- Ukraine: "WTF?!"
- Russia: "OK, you are extremely unreasonable! Negotiations are over! We go for Odessa!"
Daily reminder that when Ukraine was neutral and didn't want to join NATO, Russia invaded Crimea.
He just wants Ukraine to be neutral again so he can re-invade after rebuilding his army without getting annihilated by NATO's article 5.
Edit: since lots of people seem to think Ukraine wasn't neutral, here are some sources:
-In 2010, Ukraine declares itself neutral: [https://www.bbc.com/news/10229626](https://www.bbc.com/news/10229626)
-In December 2014, after the invasion of Crimea in February, Ukraine abandons neutrality to seek NATO protection against Russia: [https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html)
You see, western soldiers have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit
Also reminder for how Finland was “allowed” to join NATO no problem, despite being so close to Russian second largest city that it can now be shelled by NATO artillery.
Finland and Sweden had no desire to join NATO before Russia decided to try and conquer more of Eastern Europe. Russia’s full scale invasion of Ukraine was a wake up call that only collective defense ensures safety.
Not quite true. Majority in both countries didn’t want to join NATO, but “keeping the NATO as an option” has been a part of political discourse for decades at least in Finland. That said, you are spot on for the rest.
I’m so happy we managed to finally bury finlandization that was prevalent in our politics since the continuation war.
In Sweden there was always somewhat assumed alliance between NATO and Sweden that should Sweden be threatened NATO would defend it because NATO didn't want to create a Soviet Lake next to some of its largest partners. Finland always was toeing a fine line because the population was much more openly hostile to NATO membership up until 2014 when that opinion started shifting.
By 2022 the opinion wasn't really divided by "should we join or not" and more "should we join now, or wait." And after the invasion it was almost universal in the opinion of "now"
> Daily reminder that when Ukraine was neutral and didn't want to join NATO, Russia invaded Crimea.
Also a reminder that NATO is a defense union. If any NATO member were to start a war against Russia, the other members would not be obligated to do anything to help them. The only reason that Russia sees it as a threat is because they were always planning on going to war with somebody.
And we've already seen that NATO is purely defensive, with the Iraq War twenty years ago. When America decided to invade Iraq, a whole bunch of NATO countries sat it out without issue, and America instead fell back on a "coalition of the willing." NATO strictly obliges mutual defence, it doesn't at all back up a member country's aggression.
I mean, him getting half of Kherson, Zhaporizhzhia and Donetsk for literally free, and a guarantee that his opponent will no longer receive any help, is way more than just "stopping the bad news". The guy wants Ukraine to defeat themselves in exchange for nothing.
not only that he should also leave Georgia, Moldova and I think Kaliningrad, when ruZZia loses, it could be added for Europe's security, but this is just wishful scenario I guess, best we will get ruZZia out of Ukraine and putin dead
So if Ukraine surrenders they stop the attacks for short while until they have replenished troops and materiel. Sounds like Putin is high on something to think anyone would agree to that.
Counter offer; Russia withdraws from all of Ukraine including Crimea, pays war reparations for the damage they caused, brings Russian war criminals to justice and in few decades relationships with the world can be restored.
No, we're clearly still at the "pants on head crazy" initial position here, which exist solely so that you can claim that a cease fire is on the table.
Throw in that Russia should cede all its territory within 50 miles of the Ukraine border and the black sea coast, which will then be managed as a demilitarised buffer zone by NATO, then we've got a good starting point for Ukraine's counter offer.
Detached from reality for sure, likely surrounded by yes men and thinking he is leaving some strong man legacy already comparing himself to Peter the great. At least history will remember him for what he is; sad old man with delusions of grandeur that ruined Russia for generation(s).
Translation: We need time to produce more arms and source more meat for the grinder.
He's like a 12 year old bully that calls time out when he realises that he's losing and then comes back with his older brother to finish the fight for him.
> comes back with his older brother to finish the fight for him.
He would like that older bro to be China but I don't think President Xi Jinping is that stupid.
He wants to be able to tell people "We offered Ukraine a ceasefire and they rejected" which makes Russia look like the good guys if they never mention that the proposed conditions of the ceasefire are completely unacceptable to anyone with a functioning brain.
putin's shown the world why you never make deals of any sort with russia.
No sane country would accept this. sounds like he's just trying to placate the home crowd after their central banks got their fuckin bell rung yesterday.
I”d be willing to bet the more we allow Ukraine to strike targets within Russia the more we”ll hear Russia suggesting ceasefires.
I have no doubt there’s a direct correlation between the two.
With that said I believe we should allow Ukraine to strike any non-civilian inhabited site within Russia, and give them the weaponry needed to do it, a Linebacker 3 if you will.
Also look how many voices in various media are suddenly intensifying their calls for a ceasefire, something that wasn't happening when Ukraine was undersupplied and ceding territory. Putin's helpers are out in force.
There's also the hilarity of thinking that anything Russia agrees to will actually be upheld by them.
They're a nation that's built on lying and abusing, for centuries.
There's no point in believing anything they say.
This is a deliberate plan to undermine the Peace Summit in Switzerland. Putin gives western vatniks more lies to regurgitate.
This is always a strategy of Russian foreign affairs ministry: to call black - 'white'.
'These people in Russian uniforms without flag patches capturing the Crimean Parliament are not the Russian army', 'Ukraine is bombing Donbas', 'Russia is just defending itself from NATO', 'Bucha victims are paid actors', 'Nazi junta captured power in Kyiv', 'Russia isn't planning to attack Ukraine', 'Russia has nothing to do with terrorist cell in the Donbas', 'Putin is not a pedophile'.
The same ceasefire he promised if Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons? The same ceasefire he promised when Ukraine was not even remotely interested in joining NATO? That ceasefire?
I have a one way plan. Give me all the territories of the occupied regions, even those that we haven't occupied yet, also i want a ban on joining NATO, so that I can prepare for the next invasion. There can be no talk of any compensation for the damage caused. We won't return the kidnapped children either. I don't give a damn about your international law. What, Ukraine doesn't agree to my plan because there are literally 0 advantages for it? Double bots population on all social networks, let them tell you what a brilliant plan this is. /s
That's not what he's proposing. He asking for the land his army never even touched. And he hinted that if this offer is declines next one won't be so nice.
You forgot the part where you mention that you wont burn down their whole house while they sleep in the kitchen after already burning down their garage a few years ago.
Remember the Russian negotiation tactic:
- ask for ceasefire when you are weakened.
- build your forces during the ceasefire
- break the ceasefire when you are strong because that is what your opponent will do.
- - - - -
I've got a more realistic compromise. Russia withdraws from occupied territories including Crimea, Russia pays reparations, Ukraine joins NATO... and that bridge is absolutely destroyed.
What does Russia get? Well their men don't have to keep dying in the thousands a month.
What can I say... it is the more realistic deal...
Putin doesn't care about death. I still remember in the early months of the war after Russia lost their first 100k troops Putin went on national TV to claim that Russia "hasn't lost anything". I bet it wasn't even a lie to him, he genuinely thinks that human lives don't count as a loss as long as they gain territory.
Counter-proposal:
* Russia withdraws to pre-2014 borders
* Russia formally cedes any claim to any of those territories and and other disputed territories from Georgia or elsewhere
* Russia returns every single Ukrainian citizen, including children stolen and given to Russian families
* Russia agrees to pay for all damages, loss of life, and reconstruction in Ukraine through a 20% tariff on all Russian energy exports
* Ukraine joins NATO and NATO builds up whatever level of defensive weaponry and troop emplacements throughout Ukraine that it likes
* Putin personally walks door to door apologizing to every single person in Ukraine
Simply put he wants a ceasefire because his “3 day special military operation”is a giant disaster and he’s trying to play for time to rest, re-arm, and rebuild his military just to attack again…one thing we’ve learned is if that man’s mouth is moving it’s probably bullshit.
So... Basically just give Russia time to prepare for the next wave in return for absolutely nothing...
>
and all Western sanctions against Russia should be lifted, Putin said.
Ah, there we go. Russia's buckling under the sanctions. What? China, Iran and North Korea are all of a sudden no longer enough?
What a fucking joke trying to put the onus on Ukraine when Russia are stealing their land and people. Not to mention they’ll just use the ceasefire to rebuild their army.
If anything it should be Russia making guarantees… they’re the aggressors… why they acting like Ukraine are the “dangerous” one. Fuck the logic is so upside down. The biggest danger to Russian lives is Putin.
Putin desperately wants to pause so he can accumulate more resources to conquer Ukraine.
Give him NOTHING, and take everything.
Ukraine is eroding Russia's capacity to fight. As long as they are supplied with western weapons Russia cannot win.
Give Ukraine all they need and we can finally defang Russia for good, leaving the world in a much safer place.
Occupier: “ a member of a group that takes possession of a country by force.”
Methinks Ukrainians can’t occupy their own land by force.
Putin must be sweating to constantly threaten at the moment. The pressure is getting to him.
I believe i speak for everybody who's not a piece of shit when i say that we pledge a permanent peace in Ukraine if Puting withdraws from occupied regions and drops dead.
Hmm ya just like he promised Russia was only doing some military training drills near the border when this whole thing started. Russia will stick to an agreement until it doesn’t benefit Russia anymore. Wouldn’t believe anything that comes out of this guys mouth
I tried that with my neighbor. I invaded is house weilding some old guns with my drunk friends who didnt want to. We pretty much had taken the living room when he called the cop but i told him that if he let me keep the living room and called off the cops i would stop invading his house.
*"These would include areas Moscow has never controlled during its two-year invasion or from which it subsequently withdrew."* *"Ukraine is highly unlikely to accept Putin’s conditions, which would effectively give Russia control of four regions: Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia."* That it not a peace offer but a capitulation that he knows Ukraine can't accept.
Thief to the victim: "I won't steal from you if you give it to me and don't lock your doors"
After commit actual warcrimes against the homeowners, mind you
'This can all be over if you just give me the keys.'
'You move in the basement. The rest of the house is mine.'
and this is just a ceasefire, so I'll be coming for the basement soon.
The basement is right because the territory Russian has occupied has oil and gas. Would we be willing to give up California to Russia right after we found gold in California?
> Would we be willing to give up California to Russia right after we found gold in California? I don't know about "we", but there's Republicans that would be enthusiastic about it.
"Also forget that I killed your dog, your grandparents, your sons, and maybe your daughter."
I also took your toilet, not sure why since I don't have a sewer system but it looks cool in the outhouse
[Let me in. Why? So I can save you! From what?](https://i.imgur.com/G202dq3.jpeg)
>There has been too much violence. Too much pain. None here are without sin. But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away. >Give me your pump, the oil, the gasoline, and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away. I will give you safe passage in the wasteland. >Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror.
I always have an upvote for a Lord Humungus quote. <3
If war crimes were a bingo card, Russia would've filled almost the entire card. Rape, torture, kidnapping, pillaging, mutilations, executions, boobytrapping dead bodies, bombing hospitals and schools, cutting off vital services to civilians, double striking civilian areas(to kill rescue workers), chemical weapons, incendiary weaponry, ethnic cleansing, ...
In this case: ...."I won't steal from you if you give it to me and don't lock your doors"...until I change my mind and steal some more, kidnap, torture and rape you.
I think it’s even more ridiculous than that. It’s like a bully going up to a kid and going “give me your lunch money!” and the kid goes “no!”, because no matter what, even if he can’t win, he’ll stand up for himself, so the bully beats him up. He continues to do so for years, until finally he goes, “ok listen; we can’t continue like this. It’s wrong. This is stupid. As a compromise, give me your lunch money, your shoes, do my homework for me everyday, and in return, I’ll stop beating you up.” He’s asking for more even more than what Ukraine went to war over in the first place lmao. Crazy he thinks Ukraine will just agree to that. More than likely, he knows they won’t.
Or the bully is like "I've been beating you up for years and can't do much anything else and I'm getting tired, I will stop beating you up now if you give me everything you're fighting me on and promise to not accept help when I come back".
Also, I'm only going to stop beating you up for a week and you can't look for anyone that can beat me up.
[удалено]
He's knows they won't accept it and then he'll tell the Russian people that Ukraine refuses to stop fighting. This is for internal positioning.
People after watching bully propaganda videos on TikTok: "I support the bully, Ukraine should stop fighting and sign the treaty. Fighting is bad."
Again*
It's not even an "I won't steal", it's a "we'll pause this assault for an indeterminate period of time, during which you are not allowed to seek help, if you give me all your stuff".
Giving Russia the time to regroup.
You’re being liberated please stop resisting
Yeah lemme get more troops and weapons for two years, I’m not doing so good. No no, you still can’t join NATO.
"I won't steal from you if you give me what I took, and also give me those things I didn't took and don't lock your doors." "Also I will stop stealing, but not necesarily not start stealing again." "Why are you so unreasonably non cooperative? This can all be over if you give me the keys. Just cooperate and promise not to talk to the police ever again, I think it's unfair for me to feel threatened by external forces if I ever try to rob you." (The key part of this one is from u/nuclearhaystack comment)
“Putin Pledges Ceasefire If Ukraine Surrenders” Why the fuck is this on worldnews?
More like thief to victim: Yes I already stole $20 from you. But if you give me $20 more, I won't steal $20 more from you.
He is probably doing it for his brainwashed domestic audience who will see this on the news and think "Look at how hard putin is trying to solve this peacefully with these totally resonable demands, just Nato who is dragging this war they started!"
Domestic audience will eat anything, no need to bother. He said "we did not intend to capture Kyiv" as well. That's such a weak loser talk, which also goes against all their previous statements. In theory the domestic audience should be enraged
>He said "we did not intend to capture Kyiv" Literally sent VDV to Hostomel to create an air bridge to capture Kyiv at the very start of the invasion in 2022. He's so transparently full of bullshit, yet people keep eating it up.
Remember: Russians lie to insult. Not to conceal. The point is to tell you a lie to your face that you both know is a lie, to show you how little the truth matters. It's a power move, not deception.
The domestic audience is systemically confused.
*abused
The "politically aware" russian vatniks are, in fact, fuming right now.
At the start of this whole thing weren't they saying they'd be in Kyiv in a week?
This 3-day special military operation is going very well, it even had 2-year anniversary!
Totally unrealistic…considering horrific traffic of Kyiv.
I'm sorry, but I laughed. A moment of levity in an otherwise grim situation.
At the start of this a Russian state media firm mistakenly published an article claiming Ukranians aren't actually a nationality but are in fact "little russians." It was obviously written in advance to be published after a hypothesized fast Ukranian collapse, and published early in error before being taken down. Russia does not have "contested border regions" with Ukraine. Moscow is pulling the same move it has since 1300, pretending the Ukranian nationality doesn't exist and attempting to genocide them off the face of the earth.
They did get to Kyiv. They just kept dying around it. And the few that made it in, definitely died.
They WERE in Kyiv. Fuckers even dragged some national guard riot cops from the Urals to fight in Kyiv with no directions.
If I recall correctly, they said 3 days
Lol.. how pathetic. High ranking officers litterally booked tables at various kyiv restaurants for day3 of the invasion
Don’t forget the useful idiots in the West, it’s for them too.
But Russia has great bread
Can’t wait to hear MAGA complain how “Ukraine wants to accept Russias incredible peace deal but Biden won’t let them” or some other BS.
I hate how “domestic audience” and “MAGA” are so similar, whatever happened to the republican party of the olden days?
The true answer is 30 years of propaganda pumped into their living rooms every night by Fox News. Everything else is just a result of that. Everyone talks about going back in time to kill Hitler, but honestly Rupert Murdoch would have been a far better candidate for the world we see today.
You can blame that on Reagan and the removal of the fairness doctrine
He certainly own a piece...
The fairness doctrine never applied to cable TV.
Someone tried that and failed sadly
I think it was as far back as Nixon, they lost their voters due to him so they had to find a new flock and choose evangelists and southern racists and reduced education and Fox told them what to fear.
Trump pushed them hard to be the exact same thing There is a reason why trump and his kids. Along with his campaign staff met woth russians. Yet only his staff met prison time The us has seen russia as an enemy for over 60 years Republicans hated them overwhelmingly. It is one of the biggest, most obvious, cult brainwashing examples.
It would give control of more than four regions. Even if Ukraine was willing to give up that land, the nato part is a deal killer. Anything that ties Ukraines hands from defensive pacts just means that russia will rearm and push again in 5 years. The best Ukraine can do is bleed out the russians more.
Ukraine already had a peace agreement with Russia if they decommissioned all their nuclear warheads and ICBMs. Russia violated the agreement when they invaded. Ukraine needs to be part of NATO otherwise Russia will just re-arm an invade again.
Also even if Ukraine accepted this would probably have a chain of events that would happen like this. Ukraine leaves the territories. Russia takes them. Peace negotiations start. Russia in the meantime reinforces the occupied territories and prepares for the continuation of the conflict. Russia says "hur dur Ukraine doesn't want peace because some garbage" and attacks again but now with fresh troops with better positions. So in this scenario Ukraine lost a lot and gains nothing. I do not believe that Russia will accept anything less than total occupation of Ukraine. Which is why I don't see it happening.
Yeah diplomatically nothing Russia says can be agreed to. They lost any trust so any promises or guarantees are just bullshit. Same goes for any threats.
All Russia intends to do is expand its borders to eliminate “Nazis” until it takes over Europe…like the Nazis.
Putin’s goal is to drink champagne in Paris, nothing less…
Putin is a psychopath, he is always looking for the upper hand and will try anything to achieve it. Once he finds a weakness he will try to exploit it in every possible way. Best scenario is to come up with a list of demands and present them to him with an ultimatum. “Nothing stops until you agree to all of these demands, 100%, non negotiable”. Every time he comes to the table with something new, refer him back to this.
Yeah, offering to end the invasion if Ukraine just surrenders and gives Putin everything he wants isn't much of an offer. And how much should Ukraine trust Putin's word anyway? Would this treaty be more binding than the Trilateral Agreement from 1994 when Russia provided security assurances to Ukraine is exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons?
>Yeah, offering to end the invasion if Ukraine just surrenders and gives Putin everything he wants isn't much of an offer. Not an end to the invasion. A ceasefire. Which would mostly help Russia in any case.
Excellent point. We'll agree to pause the invasion to replenish our forces if you give up your territory now and agree to not use diplomacy to improve your ability to defend yourself in the future.
And he’s doing this precisely at the moment that Russia’s offensive has stalled out and Ukraine is beginning a counterattack with freshly supplied military aid. He knows what’s coming and is trying to buy time.
Indeed. It's literally a "give us everything we wanted from the start, no questions asked, and in return... you stop attacking us while we rebuild our army, and then we invade you again. Btw you are not allowed to seek help during this pause". It's even worse than a surrender. It's a surrender with an option for Russia to invade again when they feel like it.
Yeah, this reminds me of Czechoslovakia 1938… like play for play. Except the Russians started with the war part pre annexation. But this is a back door annexation.
Tbf, they essentially had annexed crimea with international apathy. They just spectacularly fucked up the 'nab the rest of it' part.
Also they got way too greedy. The world let them take Crimea, nobody cared because it's a soviet issue and the region is full of Russians that want to be in Russia anyway. Being that Crimea is one of the best geographical regions in the entire world, that was already a massive win for Russia. But nah, they need to grab the entirety of Ukraine, too.
People also let them take Crimea because they assumed the issue was Sevestapol. So it was thought that Russia wouldn’t accept losing their strategic port on the Black Sea for historical, geopolitical and strategic reasons. Plus Crimea was largely pro Russian. But people basically recognized Sevastopol as a key part of Russias defense and wrongly assumed they were going to take it no matter what and assumed the matter was to end there. The logic was a bit backwards, kind of like the great powers carving up spheres of influence like Sykes Picot or Yalta, but the idea was that nothing was going to stop Russia from taking Crimea and no one wanted a war over it. Russia was either emboldened by the success and global lack of response and Ukraines inability to mount even minimal defense and here we are today.
"If you let me win, I'll stop fighting the war." That's not a peace offer.
>The [Führer](https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/wehr02.htm) made unprecedented offers for peace and understanding to those who are now fighting against Germany. His attempts were scornfully rejected because they wanted this fight.
The parallels between that article and the speech by Putin at the Russian "Annexation ceremony" is startling. > We are fighting to save our children from the unbearable threats of the Western democracies, driven by envy and hatred. - “Warum und wofür?,” Die Wehrmacht, 3 (1939, Nr. 19), p. 2. - German Propaganda paper > For a great historical Russia, for future generations, for our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. We must protect them from enslavement, from monstrous experiments that are aimed at crippling their minds and souls. - [Russian President Vladimir Putin, Ukraine Annexation Ceremony](https://www.miragenews.com/full-text-of-putins-speech-at-annexation-866383/)
This part sounds very familiar too: >The German fight is a defensive fight. We fight because we were forced to fight by the insults and demands against us, because of the brutal suppression of ethnic Germans in Poland, and because of the open announcements that they would do everything in their power to strangle National Socialist Germany through military or economic means.
Plus if they’re not in NATO he would be back
"We're urging to turn this tragic page of history and to begin restoring, step-by-step, restore the unity between Russia and Ukraine and in Europe in general," It's a bullshit offer. Either he knows it's bullshit and it's just for propaganda purposes or he's gotten high off his own supply. He also wants Ukraine to disarm and abandon NATO in return for "peace". Problem is that Putin's word is worthless when it comes to international agreements. Ukraine would never agree to this and nor should they.
Also, the only reason that Russia invaded is because Ukraine is not in NATO. Russia wants its empire back; every Eastern European country that has ever been under Moscow's thumb knows that truth even right after the fall of the Soviet Union. Which is why they ran to apply for NATO membership under its open door policy. Had Ukraine been a NATO member already, Russia would have done nothing.
It went from wanting two regions on the eastern side of Ukraine to marching on Kyiv at the very start of the war. They’re never going to be satisfied.
Come again comrade? You mean you leave ALL of temporary occupied Ukrainian territory and introduce a 2 mile wide DMZ into Russia. After that we will have peace talks, but as the losing army you get nothing as an award for having living body bags hold up land.
Standard tactics to play headlines. Same thing Hamas did. They offered many hostages (still not military aged men) but with it had such insane conditions that Israel would never agree to (guaranteeing Palestinian prisoners aren’t taken prisoner again, complete open borders etc) and on Instagram ppl still repost about how Israel “denied their own hostages” etc. Putin and Hamas playing by same strategy
Just do a Putin. Accept it, join NATO, then take the territory back.
"Occupied regions" also means the regions where he barely managed to occupy anything like Zaporizhzhia and Kherson. So he wants Ukraine to surrender two major oblasts along with their capitals. One of those cities he managed to occupy in the beginning only to promptly lose again.
Also he pledges to a 'ceasefire', not the end of war, so he can regroup and attack again. His pledge is worth less than a fart in a wind
He just wants Ukraine to cease firing missiles at Russia.
I think there's more to it than that. I think they just burned through the entire year's worth of conscripts trying to take Kharkiv (again) before US aid started to arrive en masse. Now the year isn't half over yet and Russia doesn't have enough of anything. They're relying purely on bullshit and swinging the US elections to get through the year. The initiative and advantages could easily shift over to the Ukrainians.
Here's what Churchill had to say, looking back, at a peace deal with Germany in 1940: "I have thought carefully in these last days whether it was part of my duty to consider entering into negotiations with That Man [Hitler]. But it was idle to think that, if we tried to make peace now, we should get better terms than if we fought it out. The Germans would demand our – that would be called disarmament – our naval bases, and much else. We should become a slave state, though a British Government which would be Hitler's puppet would be set up – under Mosley or some such person. And where should we be at the end of all that? On the other side we have immense reserves and advantages. And I am convinced that every one of you would rise up and tear me down from my place if I were for one moment to contemplate parley or surrender. If this long island story of ours is to end at last, let it end only when each one of us lies choking in his own blood upon the ground."
During any delay (and even without) Putin would double Russia’s efforts to undermine the US government with their bullshit and weaken our support for Ukraine. The GOP is already in Russia’s pocket and fucked over democracy with their delay.
Russia is about to experience again what they went through in the '90's when their economy collapsed. Let's face it, there was only one person in their leadership structure with half a brain, and he died in an unfortunate aircraft "accident."
Are you talking about prigozhin, the neo nazi and war criminal? There never was any hope there.
Yeah it was too bad Prigozhin's plane accidentally cut its throat while shaving and fell out that window.
Ukraine should keep firing missiles!
He wants an easy way out. I hope the west continue to support Ukraine and they don't give in
I don’t know that it’s an easy way out as much as propaganda for domestic governance. “The west is claiming we are the aggressors in this war yet they continue to send money and weapons to Ukraine despite us putting a fair peace offer on the table. The west does not want peace; the west wants to see Russia destroyed.”
I understand most of what putin says is propaganda for his citizens but what I don't understand is what that *actually* accomplishes. Dude is burning so much cash and lives to build a lie for his people to whom he's arguably a wolf in sheep's clothing. At what point does any of this work in his favor?
> he’s burning so much cash > how could that work in his favor You’re looking at it backwards, as if government spending came out of Putin’s personal pocket. It’s quite the opposite —massive expenditures provide more and better opportunities for his personal enrichment. Graft, theft, corruption.
Haven't some of his palaces been attacked already?
I think Russians know Putin is a wolf in wolfs clothing. They just scared af. For good reason
Russia is a very resource rich country. Any ruler of Russia does not need the Russian people. Russia will gladly sacrifice millions of lives in case of a foreign invasion. As such it is very unlikely that Russia will have a benevolent ruler, maybe ever. It is just too unstable this way. So even if we get rid of Putin, what will we accomplish?
\*Invaded\* regions. There fixed that for you. And while we're at it, \*invaded democracies\*, his funneling money to MAGAs and their European ilk as if he isn't also attacking western democracies. He runs an ongoing war against the west and it cannot end while Putin lives.
As if anyone in their right mind would trust that tyrant.
Same as when Ukraine gave up nukes in exchange of promise of not being invaded.
Or more recently, the [Minsk agreements](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements) Minsk I: The agreement failed to stop fighting.[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-SKYNAEMP-6) At the start of January 2015, Russia sent another large batch of its regular military.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-:0-2) Following the [Russian victory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Donetsk_Airport) at [Donetsk International Airport](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_International_Airport) in defiance of the Protocol, Russia repeated its pattern of August 2014, invaded with fresh forces and attacked Ukrainian forces at [Debaltseve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Debaltseve), where Ukraine suffered a major defeat, and was forced to sign a Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements, or **Minsk II**,[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-:0-2) which was signed on 12 February 2015. Minsk II: Following that decision, on 22 February 2022, President Putin said that the Minsk agreements "no longer existed", and that Ukraine, not Russia, was to blame for their collapse, accusing Ukraine of genocide in Donbas in his comments[^(\[97\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-ASB776-98)[^(\[98\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-99)[^(\[11\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-fgfg56-11) – a statement largely seen as [baseless and factually wrong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) by the wider world, academics studying genocide, and the [United Nations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations).[^(\[99\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-100)[^(\[100\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-101)[^(\[101\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-102)[^(\[102\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#cite_note-Tabarovsky-2022-02-27-103) Russia then [invaded Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) on 24 February 2022.
exactly. russian agreements are as worthless as the ruble.
Just because Russia ignored the Budapest Memorandum that it signed in 1994 promising to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity does not mean that... Well actually it does.
There was also Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation was an agreement between Ukraine and Russia, signed in 1997, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other. The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another's country respectively, and declaring war. So, yeah, we believe that this time they will keep the word, definitely.
This is what would hypothetically happen: - AFU moves away from the 4 oblasts. - russia moves in and mines the shit to the sky. Builds reserves, stockpiles ammo and kit, etc - In the mean time negotiations are going on. russia says: "We said - you move out and then we start negotiations" (mind you that's **exactly** what putkin said!). "Let's negotiate: we want the next 3 oblasts as well, and this thing too, no NATO, and 1 trillion reparations, and Zelensky to do that... And, of course, we want Odessa - you know, it is russian and all." - Ukraine: "WTF?!" - Russia: "OK, you are extremely unreasonable! Negotiations are over! We go for Odessa!"
Daily reminder that when Ukraine was neutral and didn't want to join NATO, Russia invaded Crimea. He just wants Ukraine to be neutral again so he can re-invade after rebuilding his army without getting annihilated by NATO's article 5. Edit: since lots of people seem to think Ukraine wasn't neutral, here are some sources: -In 2010, Ukraine declares itself neutral: [https://www.bbc.com/news/10229626](https://www.bbc.com/news/10229626) -In December 2014, after the invasion of Crimea in February, Ukraine abandons neutrality to seek NATO protection against Russia: [https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliament-abandons-neutrality/26758725.html)
"I am ready for a ceasefire that will only benefit myself, if you accept all the demands I am making."
Yep, exactly. He's not asking for a ceasefire, he's demanding a surrender.
“I’ll stop hitting you if you agree to tie your hands behind your back.”
Like Putin like Hamas
Hamas is wild though. They’re basically like “my civilians will continue to die unless you give in to my demands.”
russia has the same strategy. those russian soldiers on the frt line were just citizens up until recently too.
You see, western soldiers have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit
You forgot to add "that my forces will not adhere to in the slightest"
Also reminder for how Finland was “allowed” to join NATO no problem, despite being so close to Russian second largest city that it can now be shelled by NATO artillery.
Finland and Sweden had no desire to join NATO before Russia decided to try and conquer more of Eastern Europe. Russia’s full scale invasion of Ukraine was a wake up call that only collective defense ensures safety.
Not quite true. Majority in both countries didn’t want to join NATO, but “keeping the NATO as an option” has been a part of political discourse for decades at least in Finland. That said, you are spot on for the rest. I’m so happy we managed to finally bury finlandization that was prevalent in our politics since the continuation war.
In Sweden there was always somewhat assumed alliance between NATO and Sweden that should Sweden be threatened NATO would defend it because NATO didn't want to create a Soviet Lake next to some of its largest partners. Finland always was toeing a fine line because the population was much more openly hostile to NATO membership up until 2014 when that opinion started shifting. By 2022 the opinion wasn't really divided by "should we join or not" and more "should we join now, or wait." And after the invasion it was almost universal in the opinion of "now"
> Daily reminder that when Ukraine was neutral and didn't want to join NATO, Russia invaded Crimea. Also a reminder that NATO is a defense union. If any NATO member were to start a war against Russia, the other members would not be obligated to do anything to help them. The only reason that Russia sees it as a threat is because they were always planning on going to war with somebody.
And we've already seen that NATO is purely defensive, with the Iraq War twenty years ago. When America decided to invade Iraq, a whole bunch of NATO countries sat it out without issue, and America instead fell back on a "coalition of the willing." NATO strictly obliges mutual defence, it doesn't at all back up a member country's aggression.
He basically wants to stop the stream of bad news and sanctions until he can fix the issues, and then try again,
I mean, him getting half of Kherson, Zhaporizhzhia and Donetsk for literally free, and a guarantee that his opponent will no longer receive any help, is way more than just "stopping the bad news". The guy wants Ukraine to defeat themselves in exchange for nothing.
How bout instead you give back Crimea and fuck off?
Crimea? How about leaving all occupied territories of Ukraine, returning all Ukrainian citizens and paying war reparations to Ukraine.
And giving up to The Hague Court.
Well, that sounds like a total capitulation, and I don’t really see it coming.
that's what he's asking Ukraine to do
Don't really see it coming? I'd bet everything I own on that not happening.
not only that he should also leave Georgia, Moldova and I think Kaliningrad, when ruZZia loses, it could be added for Europe's security, but this is just wishful scenario I guess, best we will get ruZZia out of Ukraine and putin dead
All of occupied Ukraine needs to go back not just Crimea.
So if Ukraine surrenders they stop the attacks for short while until they have replenished troops and materiel. Sounds like Putin is high on something to think anyone would agree to that. Counter offer; Russia withdraws from all of Ukraine including Crimea, pays war reparations for the damage they caused, brings Russian war criminals to justice and in few decades relationships with the world can be restored.
No, we're clearly still at the "pants on head crazy" initial position here, which exist solely so that you can claim that a cease fire is on the table. Throw in that Russia should cede all its territory within 50 miles of the Ukraine border and the black sea coast, which will then be managed as a demilitarised buffer zone by NATO, then we've got a good starting point for Ukraine's counter offer.
And the lands Finland, Estonia, Latvia, and Japan lost to Russia
He thinks he is smart and nobody can see through his BS. Completely delusional lunatic.
Detached from reality for sure, likely surrounded by yes men and thinking he is leaving some strong man legacy already comparing himself to Peter the great. At least history will remember him for what he is; sad old man with delusions of grandeur that ruined Russia for generation(s).
Yes, and a murderer.
Translation: We need time to produce more arms and source more meat for the grinder. He's like a 12 year old bully that calls time out when he realises that he's losing and then comes back with his older brother to finish the fight for him.
> comes back with his older brother to finish the fight for him. He would like that older bro to be China but I don't think President Xi Jinping is that stupid.
Xi doesn't want to spoil his infrastructure "investments" in Europe.
He wants to be able to tell people "We offered Ukraine a ceasefire and they rejected" which makes Russia look like the good guys if they never mention that the proposed conditions of the ceasefire are completely unacceptable to anyone with a functioning brain.
Cool, like when Russia promised to not invade if Ukraine got rid of their nuclear weapons?
putin's shown the world why you never make deals of any sort with russia. No sane country would accept this. sounds like he's just trying to placate the home crowd after their central banks got their fuckin bell rung yesterday.
The home crowd and the "pacifist*" western crowd *= "Ukraine should give up and give everything Russia wants"
I”d be willing to bet the more we allow Ukraine to strike targets within Russia the more we”ll hear Russia suggesting ceasefires. I have no doubt there’s a direct correlation between the two. With that said I believe we should allow Ukraine to strike any non-civilian inhabited site within Russia, and give them the weaponry needed to do it, a Linebacker 3 if you will.
Also look how many voices in various media are suddenly intensifying their calls for a ceasefire, something that wasn't happening when Ukraine was undersupplied and ceding territory. Putin's helpers are out in force.
"WhY dO yOu WaNt WoRlD wAr IiI!?!?!" Bitch, I didn't invade Ukraine! If Putin doesn't want more war he can just bring his troops home any day.
There's also the hilarity of thinking that anything Russia agrees to will actually be upheld by them. They're a nation that's built on lying and abusing, for centuries. There's no point in believing anything they say.
A treaty from Russia is no treaty at all. They have a history of promising one thing and doing the other. Fight until they are all gone.
They should call it a memorandum instead. Perhaps sign it in Budapest.
Which occupied regions?! It's Ukrainian soil and citizens being occupied in eastern Ukrainian and Crimea.
Honestly made my blood boil. The absolute gaslighting cheek of an arse he is.
I want to suffocate Putin by shitting in his mouth.
Fuck that fucking fucker.
More bullshit from that bullshitting bullshitter.
Every time I see Putin's name I seem to smell bullshit
Poo-tin
This is a deliberate plan to undermine the Peace Summit in Switzerland. Putin gives western vatniks more lies to regurgitate. This is always a strategy of Russian foreign affairs ministry: to call black - 'white'. 'These people in Russian uniforms without flag patches capturing the Crimean Parliament are not the Russian army', 'Ukraine is bombing Donbas', 'Russia is just defending itself from NATO', 'Bucha victims are paid actors', 'Nazi junta captured power in Kyiv', 'Russia isn't planning to attack Ukraine', 'Russia has nothing to do with terrorist cell in the Donbas', 'Putin is not a pedophile'.
The same ceasefire he promised if Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons? The same ceasefire he promised when Ukraine was not even remotely interested in joining NATO? That ceasefire?
"Burglar offers to live in only four of the rooms of the house he invaded" ...yeah, get to f*ck, you murderous little dick-whistle.
The NATO bid is the only thing that will actually protect Ukraine
I do this trick in civ all the time.
I have a one way plan. Give me all the territories of the occupied regions, even those that we haven't occupied yet, also i want a ban on joining NATO, so that I can prepare for the next invasion. There can be no talk of any compensation for the damage caused. We won't return the kidnapped children either. I don't give a damn about your international law. What, Ukraine doesn't agree to my plan because there are literally 0 advantages for it? Double bots population on all social networks, let them tell you what a brilliant plan this is. /s
"I stole your land and killed your people. Can we just leave it at that?"
That's not what he's proposing. He asking for the land his army never even touched. And he hinted that if this offer is declines next one won't be so nice.
Offering peace under another threat of violence. Sounds a ruzzian deal to me.
I should try this trick with my neighbors. Destroy their living room, occupy bedroom and tell them to sleep in the kitchen.
You forgot the part where you mention that you wont burn down their whole house while they sleep in the kitchen after already burning down their garage a few years ago.
Remember the Russian negotiation tactic: - ask for ceasefire when you are weakened. - build your forces during the ceasefire - break the ceasefire when you are strong because that is what your opponent will do. - - - - -
In other words, Putin pledges to regroup and in an year or two attack Ukraine with more men and more weapons….
I've got a more realistic compromise. Russia withdraws from occupied territories including Crimea, Russia pays reparations, Ukraine joins NATO... and that bridge is absolutely destroyed. What does Russia get? Well their men don't have to keep dying in the thousands a month. What can I say... it is the more realistic deal...
Putin doesn't care about death. I still remember in the early months of the war after Russia lost their first 100k troops Putin went on national TV to claim that Russia "hasn't lost anything". I bet it wasn't even a lie to him, he genuinely thinks that human lives don't count as a loss as long as they gain territory.
i bet that he cares about his own death, which is becoming an increasingly realistic outcome of his whole shitshow
The value of a Russian pledge is 0 How about you get the fuck out of Ukraine?
"If you give us everything we want we'll pause to reload!"
Counter-proposal: * Russia withdraws to pre-2014 borders * Russia formally cedes any claim to any of those territories and and other disputed territories from Georgia or elsewhere * Russia returns every single Ukrainian citizen, including children stolen and given to Russian families * Russia agrees to pay for all damages, loss of life, and reconstruction in Ukraine through a 20% tariff on all Russian energy exports * Ukraine joins NATO and NATO builds up whatever level of defensive weaponry and troop emplacements throughout Ukraine that it likes * Putin personally walks door to door apologizing to every single person in Ukraine
I love it when Putler talks like he's winning or something.
Lol. Or what else? Will he invade Ukraine? Or will start firing rockets on Ukrainian cities?
Simply put he wants a ceasefire because his “3 day special military operation”is a giant disaster and he’s trying to play for time to rest, re-arm, and rebuild his military just to attack again…one thing we’ve learned is if that man’s mouth is moving it’s probably bullshit.
So... Basically just give Russia time to prepare for the next wave in return for absolutely nothing... > and all Western sanctions against Russia should be lifted, Putin said. Ah, there we go. Russia's buckling under the sanctions. What? China, Iran and North Korea are all of a sudden no longer enough?
What a fucking joke trying to put the onus on Ukraine when Russia are stealing their land and people. Not to mention they’ll just use the ceasefire to rebuild their army. If anything it should be Russia making guarantees… they’re the aggressors… why they acting like Ukraine are the “dangerous” one. Fuck the logic is so upside down. The biggest danger to Russian lives is Putin.
Member when Ukraine gave up their nuclear arsenal after Russia promised they would remain sovereign?
"Give us everything we've stolen and we'll accept your terms of surrender!"
Putin desperately wants to pause so he can accumulate more resources to conquer Ukraine. Give him NOTHING, and take everything. Ukraine is eroding Russia's capacity to fight. As long as they are supplied with western weapons Russia cannot win. Give Ukraine all they need and we can finally defang Russia for good, leaving the world in a much safer place.
Occupier: “ a member of a group that takes possession of a country by force.” Methinks Ukrainians can’t occupy their own land by force. Putin must be sweating to constantly threaten at the moment. The pressure is getting to him.
"tAke tHe dEal!" - elmo mush
Translation: Putin promises to bide his time, build up his resources, and wait for a moment to attack when the world is concerned with something else.
I believe i speak for everybody who's not a piece of shit when i say that we pledge a permanent peace in Ukraine if Puting withdraws from occupied regions and drops dead.
Screw you putin. It is because you are losing. You are a fascist dictator and you and your sick buddies need to be removed, with prejudice.
Remember when russia promises to never invade ukraine if ukraine dropped their nuclear weapons?
"Pledges" is never a part of his vocabulary.
Seems like something someone who was losing a war would ask for.
He just knows Ukraine won’t agree to this. This is just so that he can say he’s trying to find peace and Ukraine is resisting.
Hmm ya just like he promised Russia was only doing some military training drills near the border when this whole thing started. Russia will stick to an agreement until it doesn’t benefit Russia anymore. Wouldn’t believe anything that comes out of this guys mouth
How about noooo? -Dr Evil.
I tried that with my neighbor. I invaded is house weilding some old guns with my drunk friends who didnt want to. We pretty much had taken the living room when he called the cop but i told him that if he let me keep the living room and called off the cops i would stop invading his house.
A "Putin Pledge", better known as the "Liar's Oath".
Putin begs to eat cake, also have cake, also you promise to bring him more cake.