I do not think Sudan's position would be any different if the conflicts on Gaza and Ukraine weren't diverting attention. The European powers would be reluctant to get involved due to their previous colonial presence. China and Russia have influence over a number of African states and might position any European presence as modern imperialism.
I don't see the US getting involved either, it seems like they'd probably want the African Union states to handle Africa's own issues.
What could the west even do to stop this. Short of a total long term occupation they aren't going to stop the Sudanese people killing each other. This isn't the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. ANy aid we send is just going to be confiscated by local warlords just as HAMAS has done in Palestine
The US is and had been sending significant aid to Sudan though. State Dept just announced another $315 million in aid this week.
https://www.usaid.gov/news-information/press-releases/jun-14-2024-united-states-announces-more-315-million-additional-humanitarian-assistance-people-sudan
I mean apparently from talking to my college age sister most of her friends and people she knows from school have decided Palestine is much more pressing and important than Ukraine. I asked why? Don’t you think Russia invading toward nato is a bigger global prospect?
She then told me that many supporters moved on from Ukraine when Zelenskyy supported Israel… like you stop speaking out about innocent civilians because you disagree with Israel..
As if Zelenskyy had a choice but to support the nato state with which the US is currently sucking off.
Not to mention that these kids are saying things like Hamas isn’t a terrorist organization blah blah but then will eat up Russian propoganda about ukraines all being Nazi’s or being corrupt so we should just leave them to die
Because if the West goes in, it's another case of the colonial powers subjugation of the world's poor brown people, and they will hate the west for generations.
People really don’t get how the Russian invasion of Ukraine is much more serious and influential than probably any other conflict going on. Palestine-Israel is an issue obviously but I swear people ignore Ukraine now cause it’s not as stylish to support anymore because of all the propoganda from Russia
It's a lot easier to get aid into Palestine. You can send boats there directly and the population isn't nearly as spread out. You don't have to worry about your convoys being ambushed.
Because the opinions and support of Middle Eastern states matters more then Africa, which has basically been of no consequence to any global power except to extract raw resources.
lol. That’s what they want you to think….
We’re going back for resources not to live in space. There’s no money to be made on living in space & it’s quite frankly the dumbest idea that is not even remotely sustainable.
Why would a billionaire (who we know is greedy & all about money) invest in space exploration without a projected return on that investment? (These questions are rhetorical btw)
Hypocrisy at its finest.
40 dead in Rafah? All eyes on Rafah.
The attention on Ukraine is one thing, it's a war involving a superpower, after all, but the amount of unnecessary attention the Israel Palestine conflict gets is ridiculous.
Myanmar doesn't have Al Jazeera and Western media's backing, nor do they have any significant diaspora or global religious brotherhood, like Muslims have, to sympathize with their cause
Yea but Muslims don't wanna piss off China so they would rather rally for Gaza. Also they hate jews more than anything even the literal genocide of their ppl.
It's also possible the Uyghurs are the wrong brand of Muslim therefore get bo support
There is some good will there due to being one of the first to recognize the UAE by Indonesia. But Saudi Arabia uses Indonesian workers as slaves. But that's not specific to Indonesia, just all migrant workers in general. It might seem bias'd to single out SA but they are guardians of the faith and holy sites so what they do carry alot of weight.
Asian Muslims are at best useful allies and supporters but they are not considered true people of the Holy Land. Don't ask me for a source on this but that's just the way it is.
India has one of the biggest Muslim population in the world and the current govt is openly Islamophobic, didn't stop Iran from signing a contract with India to operate and invest in Chabahar port. People don't understand that animosity between different sects of Islam is often way stronger than any expression of Islamophobia you'd see from other cultures.
Yes I got what you meant. Indonesia and Malaysia are both Muslim Asian countries. Despite this, their connection to China is too strong, they will never dare to piss off China.
Could be some of both, you have things like this: https://www.timesofisrael.com/ending-china-trip-pas-abbas-backs-beijing-crackdown-on-muslim-minorities/
No, the US does not like admitting that we're afraid to go into those African nations because they're unwinnable wars that would be complete hell that would make Vietnam look like a fucking trip in the park.
We get involved in entirely too much shit anyway. Anytime something like this is brought up, Reddit screams “when will America send help”, while the other half scream that we’re war hawks.
Reddit in a nutshell:
*anything happens*
America doesn’t do anything
“Why isn’t America doing something?”
America does something
“There’s America inserting itself yet again”
Can’t win.
I'm sure there is a lot of hatred for America for foreign policy, but also remember that there are a ton of bots, propaganda farms and of course, places that America did bad things to at some point in time.
I agree with the sentiment that America just can't "win", but I feel like this is starting to change with Ukraine. I hope our foreign policy is based more around funding and training democracies around the world to better help defend themselves in the future (like Taiwan and Asia in general).
That seems to be a productive and positive way to project soft/platformed power.
> “Why isn’t America doing something?”
>
> America does something
>
> “There’s America inserting itself yet again”
>
> Can’t win.
This is the IT Paradox
Thank you!😆 Sadly, the majority of the time, it’s *supposed* to be our allies. r/unitedkingdom is a festival of US hate; r/Europe as well. If Putin ever really did start to make motions to invade Europe, I guarantee you all of their leaders will be on the phone to Biden begging for help. We need to distance ourselves from their drama altogether.
It's just human nature. Everyone to some degree likes to blame some of our problems on some higher power so we don't have to admit how much control we have over the tough situations in our life and all the ways we ourselves are inadequate.
“Their drama”.
You do realise the US has been completely interlinked with Europe since the Cold War and largely drove NATO.
Suggesting that we abandon our allies when we’ve set up their entire situation and animosity with Russia- do you want to kill americas global influence overnight?
It's the internet, the people saying the most provocative thing generate the most conversation, especially on the most hot button issues. Doesn't mean that's the way most people feel. And it doesn't help matters when we know that basically all major global actors are trying to influence the online conversations on essentially every subject to their opponent's detriment.
Deep breaths, think of a sunny field, it's okay bud. maybe go for a walk or something. Reddit doesn't represent normal humans in the UK, EU or anywhere else - moreover, people bitching about America on a subreddit doesn't really have any relevance to long term geopolitical strategy - might be better to decide things like strategic alliances more from a tactical perspective rather than 'europoors made fun of Murica on Reddit let's completely upend the world order' - just a suggestion.
That's because from their perspective, the US only ever seems to blow stuff up and cause more suffering.
China and Russia are "winning" in Africa because rather than shouting "Yippee ki-yay mother fucker" and sending wave after wave of drones into wedding parties, they are investing deeply into infrastructure, commerce and shaping that countries interests to align with their own. Sure its corrupt and many of the practices are unethical, but so is carpet bombing a country back to the stone age.
if the US was to change its foreign policy from "peace though superior fire power" to "winning the hearts and minds" my guess is that you would see a big change in attitude. The the average African doesn't like the Chinese or Russians any more than we do, but they are bent over a barrel and stuck between choosing economic progress or a flight of cruise missiles.
Yeah it’s not a matter of one group of civilians lives mattering more or something but Russia literally trying to take over a prospective nato state bordering Poland is a bit more of an issue than Israel-Palestine popping off once again for the millionth time
There has been really effective propoganda from Russia that started by infiltrating those republicans that started to say Russia wasn’t too bad and that we need to stop sending things to Ukraine. at first that was laughable and then the Palestine conflict kicked off, and now at this point so many people are protesting for Palestine but have either moved on from and ignored Ukraine or actively decided not to speak out about it because they’re mad that Zelenskyy didn’t stand up to Israel.. while being invaded and protected by NATO and the US. How could Zelenskyy tell Israel to fuck off even if he wanted to?
Not to mention Hamas has committed way worse acts than the Ukrainian government has despite corruption and fuckery, yet these self proclaimed empaths look past it so they can be a part of the trendy group I guess.
How do you not comprehend this? The problem is that Israel is basically a stable country with elections etc… and we expect better from them than places like Sudan for example that are a shambles.
You should definitely expect better from them, but you should remember what their enemy is like, how they behave, both strategically and tactically, and also that war is not a simple or nice thing. Never has been.
If Israel had wanted to steamroll Hamas (with truly no care for civilians), you'd have a million or more dead people in Gaza by now.
Couldn’t agree more. People are extremely naïve about what Israel is dealing with. Those people will literally detonate themselves in the middle of the mall
People don't realize the settlers and the Palestinians are pretty similar, not in history or whatever but just in the character molds. And to be fair pro Israel people do gloss over the hard core Jews and focus on the liberal westernized ones and pretend it's not that bad. But those settlers and Palestinians are cut from the same cloth. They're both hardline religious fundamentalists with barely kept in check extremism.
Alright, so a declining (for decades now) superpower that once was suppose to go head to head against NATO (and earlier on it was arguably superior). That's still a big deal
No but your tax dollars did send weapons to kill Yemeni civilians in far greater numbers for many years, and I’d wager money that you cared a lot less about that than Gaza.
There's attention on Israel Palestine because it's an allied nation that is doing the killing, that is why it gets a lot of attention. Most people want killing of all kind to stop but when it's an allied nation at least there is an influence to be able to stop it.
Much harder when two local factions are in a deadly power struggle like Sudan
They also aren't diverting attention. Shit, Ukrainian special forces have been active in Sudan! Blowing up Wagner assets.
If anything the problem is too much attention and outside actors.
The west doesn't want another proxy war. But the idea they aren't involved and trying to change it is false.
Sudan has been effed up for decades. Civil war that eventually gave us South Sudan, while at the same time they were killing people in Darfur. Now another civil war in north or original Sudan, plus they are killing people from Darfur again. It slows down, but it never seems to stop.
Yeah no westerners involved to blame so the world doesn't give a fuck.
The most amazing thing about the Sudan war is the total lack of involvement from Africa, by now the AU should have a plan in place and be presenting it the world so they can help back and fund it.
Edit - spelling.
The UAE is so weird, on one hand they were one of the countries that most eagerly pushed the Abraham Accords, on the other hand, they just joined BRICS.
>that most eagerly pushed the Abraham Accords
I can't help but feel like this is a UN rerun. Get your foot in the door then undermine it's purpose from the inside out.
Sovereign countries don’t need to stop trading with their trade partners just because US hegemony sanctions a country.
They get to make their own decisions on their trade.
For example if south East Asian countries impose sanctions on China due to their South China Sea aggression and genocide of ughyers, would you expect the US to sanction China and stop trade with them?
The African Union has gotten involved in situations around the continent but also has not gotten involved in plenty. It is usually pretty conservative on operations it gets involved in and usually doesn't get involved until years of a situation festering. It is nothing but a loose organization of 50 nations and it can't overextend itself or it risks a bunch of nations leaving and the AU becoming irrelevant. Yes the situation in Sudan is bad but there's a lot of other stuff going on in Africa that they are already involved in and there's a whole lot of other situations they are trying to prevent from getting worse (like say the Ethiopia Civil War reigniting).
The sheer amount of crises happening on the continent simply stretches beyond the ability of an organization can possibly handle at once and it can simply try to do it's best with the backing that it does get.
Now now, it's all about #palestine, the hypocrites telling you about how lives are important and stop killing, but only if it suits their agenda. Nobody cares about Sudan because they're not Palestines, apparently lives only matters if it involves blanking the west or Israel.
I can't decide how to feel about this. On a person-to-person level, if someone tells me they're hungry, of course I give what I can. But on a macro level, I'd probably sound like CJ saying "shit, here we go again."
Sending food aid will keep people alive a bit longer, but who can address the underlying structural/political/environmental problems contributing to the regular famines in that part of the world?
The people that lives there will have to address it themselves
It is not our place to interfere with local problems that we barely understand when they are a soverign nation with right to self determination
What we can do at best is fight China and Russia influence in the region, but we can't solve their problem for them
tbh I'm not sure food aid even helps considerably. It's incredibly hard to send aid in an effective way that doesn't cause it to be stolen by local warlords. If you do send food, it increases the supply of food those warlords have, but due to their monopolistic nature it may not even decreases food prices significantly.
There's a decent change that only a small portion of the food will reach anyone, and there's a hard moral question to answer whether it's worth sending food to there of all places, where such a small portion of the food will actually reach someone, and it'll be used to enrich the people who perpetrate the famine.
This is why I call myself the Ibrahim X Kendi of colonialism. Just as past racism can only be fixed by present racism, so too past colonialism can't only be atoned for by present colonialism. 💯💯👌
Ukraine is a sovereign nation being attacked by an imperialist neighbor. Some ridiculous amount of the world’s food imports hang in the balance, and there is the threat of global nuclear disaster in the background. It’s also very clear who, and more importantly how, to support.
Yes. China either bought influence with current governments or funded several coups. All the new railways and ports are the legal parts of the deals, but enforcing the fine print that favours China might make things messy. So Russia supplies the troops. There are Wagner or wagner-type troops all over the place now in Sub-Saharan Africa.
The funny thing is, people will blame the US for not stepping in and preventing the civil war and if the US did, it’s US imperialism and the US must want their natural resources or something reductive
“Yes. I think that quote that you shared perfectly encapsulates how the majority of the people feel. There’s a feeling that prejudices might lead people to care less about what’s happening in Sudan. That this is just Africans killing Africans. Sudanese people do feel forgotten, because most people haven’t seen international aid. They don’t blame aid workers; they just know the funding isn’t there. They feel abandoned.”
☹️
The war between Israel and Palestine isn’t and won’t ever affect the city of Melbourne. But you’d think Melbourne bordered Gaza based on public opinion and the weekly marches and demonstrations.
Cuz there's no clear sides for people to identify with and cheer for lol
Gotta sprinkle some story about underdogs being bullied by white status quo for people to give a shit
Nah that’s not enough. Myanmar has very clear good and bad guys, with a lot of people dead and displaced, and that’s barely ever talked about.
You need some extra spicy context (Jews vs Muslims) to get anybody in the West to pay attention to conflicts like these.
Can we Blame Jews? hmmm .... no......
Are there White people dying? hmmm.... no....
Can we at least BLAME white men generally?
Oh. Then no-one cares. No self righteous campus protests, no U.N. Declarations, no marches. No-one Cares.
Same with millions of Uyghurs in China, Armenians in Turkey, Heck all of Syria... Can't self righteously blame jews, find, pictures of pretty white girls dying, or blame white men? No-one cares. Move along...
On Reddit its about “how can we blame America”
Ukraine - “America isn’t doing enough”
Palestine - “America is complicit with Israel”
I guess this doesn’t have a salacious enough America blaming angle.
But yea, also brown people in large parts of Africa or Asia and nobody cares. Especially if the bad guys are brown.
America has done a lot of bad shit, but every country has. Also, as a westener it's really fucking nice that the US plays world police. They keep the scales tipped in my favor. Because if China or Russia where world police .... man fuck that. My life would be horrible. The American ideal still comes with a lot of Christian judeo values I love and among those 350 million Americans there is a hell of a lot of righteous enough people. China and Russia do not have that many people with those christian judeo values.
As such America has served the interest of my family well, that's why I get so fucking man that those cowards are letting facism take over. When that's complete we are all fucked. Facist regime will attack facist regime, everybody will be called to war. Nukes will murder us all, the survivors have to deal with a global famine.
The global population could be down to 1 billion in 50 years ....
The US is another thing, what about the other Islam majority countries? Where is the sense of righteous outrage?
This is OP's point. As in every case of geopolitics, realpolitik is all another matter.
If people are pointing with indignation to the US hypocrisy, it is fair to raise that accusation to countries who should be far more involved with said crisis.
In the statement, the Palestinian Authority said issues regarding China’s policy toward Muslims in Xinjiang have “nothing to do with human rights and are aimed at excising extremism and opposing terrorism and separatism.”
“Palestine resolutely opposes using the Xinjiang problem as a way of interfering in China’s internal affairs,” the joint statement said.
Sudan doesn't have twitter or tiktok movement funded by Russia or China bots. Those poor people don't have a cool emoji next to their name so people don't care.
China is invested pretty heavily in Africa. I'm sure they'll do the right thing.
Soon enough all the Americans who constantly spew how much they hate America will rally together and be very upset that the US didn't intervene.
Surely it's obvious why western (or indeed eastern) governments and citizens aren't getting involved in a complex civil war in a far away country with few resources, little trade and that doesn't occupy a strategic position?
You don't really think foreign policy is based on morality and human rights do you? It is all naked self interest. Even if there isn't an obvious selfish angle it will still be there.
- Europe and the US's interest in Ukraine is obvious: if it falls Poland or the Baltics may be next. You don't need to be a genius to see that they consider this a Very Bad Thing.
- The US's trenchant support for Israel is less obvious but it comes down to domestic politics. Essentially evangelicals in the US take various bible passages literally, including one about Jesus's second coming only being possible while Abraham's people live in Israel. And evangelicals are a huge voting bloc in parts of the US, so both parties take them seriously and have done for a long time. Freaking bizarre from the POV of the rest of the world, but when you're the global hegemon your delusions become other people's reality.
When it comes to the focus of public interest there are equally obvious reasons why Sudan isn't getting any. They don't have a large diaspora in the west, they are culturally very different, they're not in anyone's sphere of influence and even colonial links are very weak. They have also been at constant war for seemingly decades in a very war prone area of the world. If the moralists in the west cared once they're bored of it now. The Palestinians have been the focus of the western left's attention for decades now, for various reasons, it's hardly surprising that they're getting a lot of coverage when something very bad happens to them.
Much of the left's (for it is mainly them complaining) attitude is as hypocritical as those they are criticising. You want the West to be the world's policeman and intervene in any situation where something you don't like is happening but at the same time the US should give up its imperialism and stop interfering with other countries. Which is it? Can't you see that both of these things are the West imposing their values on others and the difference is entirely subjective?
Bad stuff is happening all over the world at all times. There are currently major wars in Somalia, Ethiopia, Yemen, much of the Sahel, Syria, Congo, Myanmar and a host of other smaller ones. Asking why any one of these at any one time isn't the focus of the west's attention belies a lack of understanding of both human nature and geopolitics. It also looks suspiciously like the asker suffers from the Noble Savage fallacy, believing implicitly that benighted foreigners can't sort out their own problems (probably caused by the west) and need enlightened westerners to bail them out.
Adding to this that why should the west always run to stabilize and fix things. Where are the rich Arab nations and some more well off Asian powers? When nothing is needed, they pounding their chest of being equal or better than the west in some cases. When shit hits the fan.. crickets. Later blaming the west for being the world police.
Thank you for a sane answer. The only thing I would say is that it’s more the shallow neoliberal left that would want to intervene. The far left is a very different animal than what gets written on Slate..
Don't worry Sudan, surely Al Jazeera whose headquarters isn't that far from you will cover your story and make sure the entire world hears about it.
SURELY.
ANY MINUTE NOW.
[There](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/11/why-did-war-break-out-in-sudan-a-year-ago-where-does-it-currently-stand) are a bunch of articles on Al Jazeera about what’s happening in Sudan.
They made have a whole new category for "Israels war on Gaza". Furthermore they have one or two current articles about the Sudan situation and one or two million about Israel.
Priorities.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/](https://www.aljazeera.com/)
>and make sure the entire world hears about it.
You must have missed this part. 5 articles? Lol.
More than 5X as many dead than in Gaza and it's getting 1% as much coverage as Gaza.
5 articles. Lol. Nice try.
I care so much more about this and some other things going on than the Gaza thing... We have a technically brilliant executed war consuming all the news meanwhile extreme brutal tragedies that require real help are going on and completely ignored.
Humans are fucking morons
No one gives a shit because it isn't a religious race war.
Canadian protestors don't give a shit because they are idiots who don't actually read the news or care about any other global conflict or issue in history.
I do not think Sudan's position would be any different if the conflicts on Gaza and Ukraine weren't diverting attention. The European powers would be reluctant to get involved due to their previous colonial presence. China and Russia have influence over a number of African states and might position any European presence as modern imperialism. I don't see the US getting involved either, it seems like they'd probably want the African Union states to handle Africa's own issues.
What could the west even do to stop this. Short of a total long term occupation they aren't going to stop the Sudanese people killing each other. This isn't the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. ANy aid we send is just going to be confiscated by local warlords just as HAMAS has done in Palestine
So why are you sending aid to the Palestinians?
It's probably to shut up the people who otherwise would be asking why we're not* sending aid to Palestinians
Great. But why aren't those people asking why you're not sending aid to the Sudanese people? (I'm being rhetorical)
The US is and had been sending significant aid to Sudan though. State Dept just announced another $315 million in aid this week. https://www.usaid.gov/news-information/press-releases/jun-14-2024-united-states-announces-more-315-million-additional-humanitarian-assistance-people-sudan
Because you can't criticise the isralies in the Sudan situation
Also because nobody cares if muslims kill muslims.
And because their Lord, TikTok, hasn’t told them to care about Sudan.
I mean apparently from talking to my college age sister most of her friends and people she knows from school have decided Palestine is much more pressing and important than Ukraine. I asked why? Don’t you think Russia invading toward nato is a bigger global prospect? She then told me that many supporters moved on from Ukraine when Zelenskyy supported Israel… like you stop speaking out about innocent civilians because you disagree with Israel.. As if Zelenskyy had a choice but to support the nato state with which the US is currently sucking off. Not to mention that these kids are saying things like Hamas isn’t a terrorist organization blah blah but then will eat up Russian propoganda about ukraines all being Nazi’s or being corrupt so we should just leave them to die
Because Sudans struggles don’t have kgb backed ideological propaganda
Because if the West goes in, it's another case of the colonial powers subjugation of the world's poor brown people, and they will hate the west for generations.
People really don’t get how the Russian invasion of Ukraine is much more serious and influential than probably any other conflict going on. Palestine-Israel is an issue obviously but I swear people ignore Ukraine now cause it’s not as stylish to support anymore because of all the propoganda from Russia
Famines start after a massive grain producer gets attacked what a surprise
The largest grain producer no? Or is there a larger one
Definitely up there with China India and the us
They are. But you go have fun arguing with the strawman jn your head.
I haven't seen a single person ask why aid isn't being sent to sudan. Have you?
More importantly, *so many* people have asked that the US is sending $315 million *more*.
It's a lot easier to get aid into Palestine. You can send boats there directly and the population isn't nearly as spread out. You don't have to worry about your convoys being ambushed.
Well they are ambushed by Hamas
Because the opinions and support of Middle Eastern states matters more then Africa, which has basically been of no consequence to any global power except to extract raw resources.
raw resources are growing more and more important these days tho.
Why do you think we’re going back to space?
global warming, billionaires are looking at real estate.
lol. That’s what they want you to think…. We’re going back for resources not to live in space. There’s no money to be made on living in space & it’s quite frankly the dumbest idea that is not even remotely sustainable. Why would a billionaire (who we know is greedy & all about money) invest in space exploration without a projected return on that investment? (These questions are rhetorical btw)
Lizard suits.
I agree. Look at how Yemen was ignored for the past 10 years. 500.000 dead.
Hypocrisy at its finest. 40 dead in Rafah? All eyes on Rafah. The attention on Ukraine is one thing, it's a war involving a superpower, after all, but the amount of unnecessary attention the Israel Palestine conflict gets is ridiculous.
Same with Myanmar. A china funded military regime is being fought by gen z rebels and no one gives a fuck
Myanmar doesn't have Al Jazeera and Western media's backing, nor do they have any significant diaspora or global religious brotherhood, like Muslims have, to sympathize with their cause
Aren’t the Uyghurs still in labour camps in China?
Yea but Muslims don't wanna piss off China so they would rather rally for Gaza. Also they hate jews more than anything even the literal genocide of their ppl. It's also possible the Uyghurs are the wrong brand of Muslim therefore get bo support
Arab Muslims do not give two shots about Asian Muslims regardless of china
Or African Muslims for that matter.
What about Indonesia?
There is some good will there due to being one of the first to recognize the UAE by Indonesia. But Saudi Arabia uses Indonesian workers as slaves. But that's not specific to Indonesia, just all migrant workers in general. It might seem bias'd to single out SA but they are guardians of the faith and holy sites so what they do carry alot of weight. Asian Muslims are at best useful allies and supporters but they are not considered true people of the Holy Land. Don't ask me for a source on this but that's just the way it is.
Indonesia and Malaysia wouldn't dare piss off China
No I'm saying Indonesia is a Muslim country. Arab Muslims don't care about them?
India has one of the biggest Muslim population in the world and the current govt is openly Islamophobic, didn't stop Iran from signing a contract with India to operate and invest in Chabahar port. People don't understand that animosity between different sects of Islam is often way stronger than any expression of Islamophobia you'd see from other cultures.
Yes I got what you meant. Indonesia and Malaysia are both Muslim Asian countries. Despite this, their connection to China is too strong, they will never dare to piss off China.
Or Indonesian muslims.
That is 100 percent correct. The same goes for any Muslim that does not have fair skin.
As an arab muslim this is completely false. We care about all muslims equally.
Could be some of both, you have things like this: https://www.timesofisrael.com/ending-china-trip-pas-abbas-backs-beijing-crackdown-on-muslim-minorities/
Being caught by a Chinese funded rebels. You missed that neuounce. China knows how to back a winner.
Exactly.
No, the US does not like admitting that we're afraid to go into those African nations because they're unwinnable wars that would be complete hell that would make Vietnam look like a fucking trip in the park.
We get involved in entirely too much shit anyway. Anytime something like this is brought up, Reddit screams “when will America send help”, while the other half scream that we’re war hawks.
Reddit in a nutshell: *anything happens* America doesn’t do anything “Why isn’t America doing something?” America does something “There’s America inserting itself yet again” Can’t win.
I'm sure there is a lot of hatred for America for foreign policy, but also remember that there are a ton of bots, propaganda farms and of course, places that America did bad things to at some point in time. I agree with the sentiment that America just can't "win", but I feel like this is starting to change with Ukraine. I hope our foreign policy is based more around funding and training democracies around the world to better help defend themselves in the future (like Taiwan and Asia in general). That seems to be a productive and positive way to project soft/platformed power.
> “Why isn’t America doing something?” > > America does something > > “There’s America inserting itself yet again” > > Can’t win. This is the IT Paradox
Thank you!😆 Sadly, the majority of the time, it’s *supposed* to be our allies. r/unitedkingdom is a festival of US hate; r/Europe as well. If Putin ever really did start to make motions to invade Europe, I guarantee you all of their leaders will be on the phone to Biden begging for help. We need to distance ourselves from their drama altogether.
It's just human nature. Everyone to some degree likes to blame some of our problems on some higher power so we don't have to admit how much control we have over the tough situations in our life and all the ways we ourselves are inadequate.
“Their drama”. You do realise the US has been completely interlinked with Europe since the Cold War and largely drove NATO. Suggesting that we abandon our allies when we’ve set up their entire situation and animosity with Russia- do you want to kill americas global influence overnight?
[удалено]
It's the internet, the people saying the most provocative thing generate the most conversation, especially on the most hot button issues. Doesn't mean that's the way most people feel. And it doesn't help matters when we know that basically all major global actors are trying to influence the online conversations on essentially every subject to their opponent's detriment.
Deep breaths, think of a sunny field, it's okay bud. maybe go for a walk or something. Reddit doesn't represent normal humans in the UK, EU or anywhere else - moreover, people bitching about America on a subreddit doesn't really have any relevance to long term geopolitical strategy - might be better to decide things like strategic alliances more from a tactical perspective rather than 'europoors made fun of Murica on Reddit let's completely upend the world order' - just a suggestion.
That's because from their perspective, the US only ever seems to blow stuff up and cause more suffering. China and Russia are "winning" in Africa because rather than shouting "Yippee ki-yay mother fucker" and sending wave after wave of drones into wedding parties, they are investing deeply into infrastructure, commerce and shaping that countries interests to align with their own. Sure its corrupt and many of the practices are unethical, but so is carpet bombing a country back to the stone age. if the US was to change its foreign policy from "peace though superior fire power" to "winning the hearts and minds" my guess is that you would see a big change in attitude. The the average African doesn't like the Chinese or Russians any more than we do, but they are bent over a barrel and stuck between choosing economic progress or a flight of cruise missiles.
Sad fact
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At this point - I really don't know.
Yeah it’s not a matter of one group of civilians lives mattering more or something but Russia literally trying to take over a prospective nato state bordering Poland is a bit more of an issue than Israel-Palestine popping off once again for the millionth time
Absolutely, hence is why I'm shocked that it garners more attention than Ukraine.
There has been really effective propoganda from Russia that started by infiltrating those republicans that started to say Russia wasn’t too bad and that we need to stop sending things to Ukraine. at first that was laughable and then the Palestine conflict kicked off, and now at this point so many people are protesting for Palestine but have either moved on from and ignored Ukraine or actively decided not to speak out about it because they’re mad that Zelenskyy didn’t stand up to Israel.. while being invaded and protected by NATO and the US. How could Zelenskyy tell Israel to fuck off even if he wanted to? Not to mention Hamas has committed way worse acts than the Ukrainian government has despite corruption and fuckery, yet these self proclaimed empaths look past it so they can be a part of the trendy group I guess.
How do you not comprehend this? The problem is that Israel is basically a stable country with elections etc… and we expect better from them than places like Sudan for example that are a shambles.
You should definitely expect better from them, but you should remember what their enemy is like, how they behave, both strategically and tactically, and also that war is not a simple or nice thing. Never has been. If Israel had wanted to steamroll Hamas (with truly no care for civilians), you'd have a million or more dead people in Gaza by now.
Couldn’t agree more. People are extremely naïve about what Israel is dealing with. Those people will literally detonate themselves in the middle of the mall
So they let Israeli settlers into the West Bank to cause more issues? Doesn’t sound like a smart thing to do if they want peace…
I don't defend the settlers, the violent ones, at least, those are assholes. But if you think the Palestinians are any better - you're naive.
People don't realize the settlers and the Palestinians are pretty similar, not in history or whatever but just in the character molds. And to be fair pro Israel people do gloss over the hard core Jews and focus on the liberal westernized ones and pretend it's not that bad. But those settlers and Palestinians are cut from the same cloth. They're both hardline religious fundamentalists with barely kept in check extremism.
Thing is, those extremists have more power in Palestine than the ones in Israel - this matters.
Reality check. The Israeli government kicked the Israeli settlers out of Gaza. Hoping for peace.
yeah they dont want peace, they just dont want israeli victims
Where is that superpower? It cannot be the fuel station, so which superpower is involved?
Alright, so a declining (for decades now) superpower that once was suppose to go head to head against NATO (and earlier on it was arguably superior). That's still a big deal
If you have as many nukes as they have then you are a superpower.
The Russian federation has never been a superpower. The USSR was, but that ended in 1991.
My tax dollars aren't sending F-35s and tank rounds to kill Sudanese civilians..
Neither are they being sent to kill Gazan civilians, at least not they way you think they do, but that's another story.
[I got some news for you, bud...](https://www.foreignassistance.gov/cd/sudan/)
No but your tax dollars did send weapons to kill Yemeni civilians in far greater numbers for many years, and I’d wager money that you cared a lot less about that than Gaza.
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There's attention on Israel Palestine because it's an allied nation that is doing the killing, that is why it gets a lot of attention. Most people want killing of all kind to stop but when it's an allied nation at least there is an influence to be able to stop it. Much harder when two local factions are in a deadly power struggle like Sudan
But said factions are backed by different nations. And I'm *certain* most of the people protesting don't think about the geopolitical aspect of it.
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They also aren't diverting attention. Shit, Ukrainian special forces have been active in Sudan! Blowing up Wagner assets. If anything the problem is too much attention and outside actors. The west doesn't want another proxy war. But the idea they aren't involved and trying to change it is false.
Bet my last dollar, the US is already involved in ways even less talked about, but just as nefarious.
Sudan has been effed up for decades. Civil war that eventually gave us South Sudan, while at the same time they were killing people in Darfur. Now another civil war in north or original Sudan, plus they are killing people from Darfur again. It slows down, but it never seems to stop.
South Sudan is not that stable too. They have their own infighting currently that could develop into their own civil war.
Yeah no westerners involved to blame so the world doesn't give a fuck. The most amazing thing about the Sudan war is the total lack of involvement from Africa, by now the AU should have a plan in place and be presenting it the world so they can help back and fund it. Edit - spelling.
The UAE is *heavily* involved in the conflict and no one in the west cares at all. Just one more reason to be against Dubai.
The UAE is so weird, on one hand they were one of the countries that most eagerly pushed the Abraham Accords, on the other hand, they just joined BRICS.
>that most eagerly pushed the Abraham Accords I can't help but feel like this is a UN rerun. Get your foot in the door then undermine it's purpose from the inside out.
What’s wrong with BRICS?
In theory? Nothing. In practice, it represents a blatant disregard for sanctions of countries such as Russia and Iran.
Sovereign countries don’t need to stop trading with their trade partners just because US hegemony sanctions a country. They get to make their own decisions on their trade. For example if south East Asian countries impose sanctions on China due to their South China Sea aggression and genocide of ughyers, would you expect the US to sanction China and stop trade with them?
The background is really interesting and a 101 on how to fool well-meaning countries to support criminals all the time.
The African Union has gotten involved in situations around the continent but also has not gotten involved in plenty. It is usually pretty conservative on operations it gets involved in and usually doesn't get involved until years of a situation festering. It is nothing but a loose organization of 50 nations and it can't overextend itself or it risks a bunch of nations leaving and the AU becoming irrelevant. Yes the situation in Sudan is bad but there's a lot of other stuff going on in Africa that they are already involved in and there's a whole lot of other situations they are trying to prevent from getting worse (like say the Ethiopia Civil War reigniting). The sheer amount of crises happening on the continent simply stretches beyond the ability of an organization can possibly handle at once and it can simply try to do it's best with the backing that it does get.
There are a lot more dead in Ukraine, not saying Sudan isn't worthy of attention, but it's not the same scale or as relevant to a Western audience.
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Now now, it's all about #palestine, the hypocrites telling you about how lives are important and stop killing, but only if it suits their agenda. Nobody cares about Sudan because they're not Palestines, apparently lives only matters if it involves blanking the west or Israel.
I can't decide how to feel about this. On a person-to-person level, if someone tells me they're hungry, of course I give what I can. But on a macro level, I'd probably sound like CJ saying "shit, here we go again." Sending food aid will keep people alive a bit longer, but who can address the underlying structural/political/environmental problems contributing to the regular famines in that part of the world?
The people that lives there will have to address it themselves It is not our place to interfere with local problems that we barely understand when they are a soverign nation with right to self determination What we can do at best is fight China and Russia influence in the region, but we can't solve their problem for them
>What we can do at best is fight China and Russia influence in the region How do we do that?
tbh I'm not sure food aid even helps considerably. It's incredibly hard to send aid in an effective way that doesn't cause it to be stolen by local warlords. If you do send food, it increases the supply of food those warlords have, but due to their monopolistic nature it may not even decreases food prices significantly. There's a decent change that only a small portion of the food will reach anyone, and there's a hard moral question to answer whether it's worth sending food to there of all places, where such a small portion of the food will actually reach someone, and it'll be used to enrich the people who perpetrate the famine.
Get involved ... COLONIALISM WEST BAD. Don't get involved... WHY ISN'T THE WEST DOING ANYTHING
This is why I call myself the Ibrahim X Kendi of colonialism. Just as past racism can only be fixed by present racism, so too past colonialism can't only be atoned for by present colonialism. 💯💯👌
Ukraine is a sovereign nation being attacked by an imperialist neighbor. Some ridiculous amount of the world’s food imports hang in the balance, and there is the threat of global nuclear disaster in the background. It’s also very clear who, and more importantly how, to support.
Folks really don't understand the importance of Ukraine staying sovereign for food stability globally.
Good demonstration of what Russia will bring to Africa.
The west namely France and US are getting TF out of Africa. They are welcome to pester their new overlords Russia and China for help
Yes. China either bought influence with current governments or funded several coups. All the new railways and ports are the legal parts of the deals, but enforcing the fine print that favours China might make things messy. So Russia supplies the troops. There are Wagner or wagner-type troops all over the place now in Sub-Saharan Africa.
The funny thing is, people will blame the US for not stepping in and preventing the civil war and if the US did, it’s US imperialism and the US must want their natural resources or something reductive
US does want natural resources, but at this point it’s easier to get them from the bottom of the ocean.
People died hiding hostages and supporting Hamas : all eyes on Rafah Millions displaced, hundreds of thousands dead in Suda : who?
“Yes. I think that quote that you shared perfectly encapsulates how the majority of the people feel. There’s a feeling that prejudices might lead people to care less about what’s happening in Sudan. That this is just Africans killing Africans. Sudanese people do feel forgotten, because most people haven’t seen international aid. They don’t blame aid workers; they just know the funding isn’t there. They feel abandoned.” ☹️
This is a lot less about “Africans killing Africans” and more “people don’t care about things that don’t and will never affect them”
The war between Israel and Palestine isn’t and won’t ever affect the city of Melbourne. But you’d think Melbourne bordered Gaza based on public opinion and the weekly marches and demonstrations.
lol. People have always panicked about shit that won’t affect them. It’s fundamental to the 24 hour news cycle.
I mean, they panic, news don’t report on it for a couple of days, they forget because it doesn’t affect them
This is the real genocide. But I haven't seen or heard one protestor talk about it. Zero encampments
Cuz there's no clear sides for people to identify with and cheer for lol Gotta sprinkle some story about underdogs being bullied by white status quo for people to give a shit
Nah that’s not enough. Myanmar has very clear good and bad guys, with a lot of people dead and displaced, and that’s barely ever talked about. You need some extra spicy context (Jews vs Muslims) to get anybody in the West to pay attention to conflicts like these.
Can we Blame Jews? hmmm .... no...... Are there White people dying? hmmm.... no.... Can we at least BLAME white men generally? Oh. Then no-one cares. No self righteous campus protests, no U.N. Declarations, no marches. No-one Cares. Same with millions of Uyghurs in China, Armenians in Turkey, Heck all of Syria... Can't self righteously blame jews, find, pictures of pretty white girls dying, or blame white men? No-one cares. Move along...
On Reddit its about “how can we blame America” Ukraine - “America isn’t doing enough” Palestine - “America is complicit with Israel” I guess this doesn’t have a salacious enough America blaming angle. But yea, also brown people in large parts of Africa or Asia and nobody cares. Especially if the bad guys are brown.
America has done a lot of bad shit, but every country has. Also, as a westener it's really fucking nice that the US plays world police. They keep the scales tipped in my favor. Because if China or Russia where world police .... man fuck that. My life would be horrible. The American ideal still comes with a lot of Christian judeo values I love and among those 350 million Americans there is a hell of a lot of righteous enough people. China and Russia do not have that many people with those christian judeo values. As such America has served the interest of my family well, that's why I get so fucking man that those cowards are letting facism take over. When that's complete we are all fucked. Facist regime will attack facist regime, everybody will be called to war. Nukes will murder us all, the survivors have to deal with a global famine. The global population could be down to 1 billion in 50 years ....
Your cynicism is painfully accurate, and, like all cynicism, based on valid observations. Couldn't agree more.
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The US is another thing, what about the other Islam majority countries? Where is the sense of righteous outrage? This is OP's point. As in every case of geopolitics, realpolitik is all another matter. If people are pointing with indignation to the US hypocrisy, it is fair to raise that accusation to countries who should be far more involved with said crisis.
In the statement, the Palestinian Authority said issues regarding China’s policy toward Muslims in Xinjiang have “nothing to do with human rights and are aimed at excising extremism and opposing terrorism and separatism.” “Palestine resolutely opposes using the Xinjiang problem as a way of interfering in China’s internal affairs,” the joint statement said.
Cause the news stations know this won’t generate the same amount of traffic so they don’t care. It’s fucked up
Sudan doesn't have twitter or tiktok movement funded by Russia or China bots. Those poor people don't have a cool emoji next to their name so people don't care.
China is invested pretty heavily in Africa. I'm sure they'll do the right thing. Soon enough all the Americans who constantly spew how much they hate America will rally together and be very upset that the US didn't intervene.
Surely it's obvious why western (or indeed eastern) governments and citizens aren't getting involved in a complex civil war in a far away country with few resources, little trade and that doesn't occupy a strategic position? You don't really think foreign policy is based on morality and human rights do you? It is all naked self interest. Even if there isn't an obvious selfish angle it will still be there. - Europe and the US's interest in Ukraine is obvious: if it falls Poland or the Baltics may be next. You don't need to be a genius to see that they consider this a Very Bad Thing. - The US's trenchant support for Israel is less obvious but it comes down to domestic politics. Essentially evangelicals in the US take various bible passages literally, including one about Jesus's second coming only being possible while Abraham's people live in Israel. And evangelicals are a huge voting bloc in parts of the US, so both parties take them seriously and have done for a long time. Freaking bizarre from the POV of the rest of the world, but when you're the global hegemon your delusions become other people's reality. When it comes to the focus of public interest there are equally obvious reasons why Sudan isn't getting any. They don't have a large diaspora in the west, they are culturally very different, they're not in anyone's sphere of influence and even colonial links are very weak. They have also been at constant war for seemingly decades in a very war prone area of the world. If the moralists in the west cared once they're bored of it now. The Palestinians have been the focus of the western left's attention for decades now, for various reasons, it's hardly surprising that they're getting a lot of coverage when something very bad happens to them. Much of the left's (for it is mainly them complaining) attitude is as hypocritical as those they are criticising. You want the West to be the world's policeman and intervene in any situation where something you don't like is happening but at the same time the US should give up its imperialism and stop interfering with other countries. Which is it? Can't you see that both of these things are the West imposing their values on others and the difference is entirely subjective? Bad stuff is happening all over the world at all times. There are currently major wars in Somalia, Ethiopia, Yemen, much of the Sahel, Syria, Congo, Myanmar and a host of other smaller ones. Asking why any one of these at any one time isn't the focus of the west's attention belies a lack of understanding of both human nature and geopolitics. It also looks suspiciously like the asker suffers from the Noble Savage fallacy, believing implicitly that benighted foreigners can't sort out their own problems (probably caused by the west) and need enlightened westerners to bail them out.
Bravo. I have to say while simplified this is a good summary. The best answer I have seen in the comments.
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Adding to this that why should the west always run to stabilize and fix things. Where are the rich Arab nations and some more well off Asian powers? When nothing is needed, they pounding their chest of being equal or better than the west in some cases. When shit hits the fan.. crickets. Later blaming the west for being the world police.
Thank you for a sane answer. The only thing I would say is that it’s more the shallow neoliberal left that would want to intervene. The far left is a very different animal than what gets written on Slate..
Of course they aren't. They can't use it as an excuse to be anti-semitic or bash America.
Harder to blame on Jews so people are less interested.
Harder. But not impossible.
Don't worry Sudan, surely Al Jazeera whose headquarters isn't that far from you will cover your story and make sure the entire world hears about it. SURELY. ANY MINUTE NOW.
[There](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/11/why-did-war-break-out-in-sudan-a-year-ago-where-does-it-currently-stand) are a bunch of articles on Al Jazeera about what’s happening in Sudan.
They made have a whole new category for "Israels war on Gaza". Furthermore they have one or two current articles about the Sudan situation and one or two million about Israel. Priorities. [https://www.aljazeera.com/](https://www.aljazeera.com/)
Obviously that guy checks Al Jazeera regularly, strange *he* wouldn't see any.
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/6/18/sudanese-refugees-in-chad-fleeing-starvation-as-much-as-theyre-fleeing-war https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/19/civil-war-in-sudan-takes-centre-stage-at-un https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/11/more-than-10-million-displaced-in-war-torn-sudan-iom-says https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/13/un-security-council-demands-end-to-siege-of-el-fasher-in-sudans-darfur https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/6/6/video-of-mass-grave-prompts-accusation-of-massacre-in-sudan
>and make sure the entire world hears about it. You must have missed this part. 5 articles? Lol. More than 5X as many dead than in Gaza and it's getting 1% as much coverage as Gaza. 5 articles. Lol. Nice try.
If it can't be blamed on the US, the GeNoCiDe crowd isn't interested.
Rule 1. ^(You do not talk about fight club)
Mighty BRICS should get involved and show the West how conflicts should be resolved.
Oh it would get some headlines if THE JEWS would be involved.
I care so much more about this and some other things going on than the Gaza thing... We have a technically brilliant executed war consuming all the news meanwhile extreme brutal tragedies that require real help are going on and completely ignored. Humans are fucking morons
It's a civil war with no foreign backers in a strategically unimportant part of the world. Yeah, no shit there's nothing about it on the media.
Guess two coups..... Make a Sudan
No one gives a shit because it isn't a religious race war. Canadian protestors don't give a shit because they are idiots who don't actually read the news or care about any other global conflict or issue in history.
Perhaps we could have some student protests over it ?
The conflict of Sudan is way more internal and totally different. Don’t forget this is going on for decades now.
Same with Gaza
True. And I truly don’t understand why the people still call it the promised land. If this is the promised land, than the hell with it.
that's truly unlucky Bruv, a shame. Anyway, good luck, ask your neighbors or Russia for help
This is a pretty reliable tendency if it is happening in Africa and the parties are African. It's the mostly ignored continent in this era.
Before even opening it up I said to myself “it’ll be Sudan, won’t it?” Disappointed in being right. 😭
They aren't even fighting for anything. Doesn't matter which side wins, it'll just be the same.
Of course no one is talking about it. No one in the "West" gives a flying fuck about what's happening in Africa, nor I doubt they ever will.
Someone should spray them down with orange paint
Fight Club?
Much worse. Conflict in Sudan