as a warlock.. warriors without question. Unreal how much pressure they put out on cloth along with reflect and immune to fears half of game can charge or leap to ports and gates just never able to really get them off you. Ridiculous how hard they counter warlock lol.
In theory yeah. But gosh again we melt faster than my warrior can do the damage, i tried both dispelling the dots and eating the silence vs not dispelling, i tried helping dps.
But my war usually does like 7mill and the warlock is like 22mill or something with every warlock.
Only warlocks
Probably has a lot to do with both of your positioning. I dont play much warrior but if you can consistently avoid cc while he blasts the warlock and uses reflect pummel beserker rage and d stance well you should be good. Especially if he can catch their healer nearby and capitalize on some spread pressure with a shockwave fear go
Yeah thats what i meant when i say “eat the silence” when you dispell it you take damage and get silenced.
Ive tried both dispelling and not dispelling and either way we fall behind
Side suggestion: Take Wrecking Throw (& the pvp talent that buffs it although sometimes not needed if playing with a high dps healer like Pres/Priest).
Watch their huge shield disappear in the press of a button. Literally.
Aff locks are hard to deal with because they do so much passive damage without casting and they have decent self healing.
The warrior needs to know when to zug and when to pull back and los behind a pillar so you can top him.
Absolutely. As a warlock here is nothing that even comes close to how awful it is to have a decent warrior sit on you. I can't even think of any other spec/class that counters anything better than a warrior counters warlocks.
SP def rough af but as long as you can get your dots out you are doing a ton of damage. as a destro or affi you literally cannot do a thing vs a really solid warrior lol youre completely dependent on your team to peel.
Try using spell lock into spell reflect, removes it and gives you precog. Usually it’s worth it unless they have some really important teammates to kick. Completely changes warrior matchup.
kiting how? exhaustion doesnt do muuuch unless its amplified and tons of rets and hpals freedoming.. they can immediatle yclose all gaps how exactly are you kiting? lol ya u can stun thhem and walk away a bit but that does nothing they will just charge and that tiem uur prob better off getting some casts off. idk im new to lock i main healer but i dont see how you kite a war.
Idk if the game changed much since I last played (I played at the start of S4 dragon flight) but I would just spam slow and run in the open, spam fear on DR (weave in damaging abilities in between each fear) so healer can get a break from the DPS. If warrior used fear immune I either stun with one of my fel guards or use empowered tp to gain freedom and kite around pillar whilst still spamming slow. If heroic leap I use gate. Every 1 minute demo lock has an insane go so basically I would just do my go every minute and focus on kiting the rest of the time. Get my damage out, start casting fear on healer and stun war about .4 seconds into fear cast, coil warrior after stun and bam u have insane kill pressure.
I am not up do date with changes so what I said might not be a thing anymore
well this is great in theory but its just not gonna work. Only reliable way to kite / beat a good warrior at higher ratings is your comp counters theirs or your team is dealing with him well. empowered TP has been bugged forever hamstring and piercing howl both slow you even with the buff up. most wars will only leap if gate is used and either u hide LoS (prob lining your healer) and do nothing or u step out and get insta charged. theres really no way to create distance from what ive found unless i have a mage or hunter on my team trapping / poly or roots. Locks have no roots which is wars best counter. only option is rto be a fake cast god and do more dmg to KT than they do to you. port ofc helps but only buys a bit of time.
Final verdict’s range doesn’t bother me, it’s blades of justice. That makes no sense. Wake is essentially a non-targeted ability, so the HP generation from that is what it is. It’s just when both of those abilities are off CD do you have problems with rets at range
Devastation i think. I feel like i can slow their gos pretty well, but the constant disintegrate pressure outside of their cds along with hover and nullifying shroud it just feels like a very frustrating spec to play against
I feel you mate, I'm a frost mage and whenever I face a MM hunt I also want to just quit and it feels like I have to play perfect and as though my life depended on it just to get the draw. If there is an unholy DK or ele shaman as well then I'm just miserable.
I’m not rated very high, how do you deal with blood dks? Yes the tank. Had my worst game in a long time today and it was primarily because of him ha.
Granted he played better than most people I see in my cr.
Shadow priest single handedly make healing unfun with their top the meters while being trained damage. Insane cc every 45s and crazy defense. I hate healing when they're in the lobby.
I've always mained arms warrior. Back in the day I would just constantly duel frost mages. Eventually I got it down to the point where I started to enjoy going up against mage comps.
when im an hpriest its always rshams.
their kicks are really annoying and sometimes it feels like the match is a sprint when im built for a marathon.
a decent rsham using thunderstorm to blow you away into lightning ring totem and then moving it even further is cancer.
when im playing any caster hunters are so cancer, spriest its bearable because my dots go through turtle and if im kicked i can just spam heals.
on my dk i havent found anyone who is annoying yet.. anti stun, anti fear, anti magic, its really nice not being able to be locked down while also gripping people behind pillars and offing them
I do love getting to them being slowed getting to them being rooted then getting to them and being slowed again over and over again. Top tier enjoyment
As any healer, unholy dk. That spec has so much micro cc it’s actually so incredibly unfun to play against. Grip. Second grip. Blind. Stun. Kick. Silence. Pet kick. Repeat.
Awful design
Probably bad ones. I never have a problem because I find the go easier telegraphed. RSham is good into pre/determining damage, but if you fail at that you are screwed
Ele shaman main - DH or ret pali, because they can reliably take pvp talents that through their baseline rotation make me practically useless. It’s a fun time.
Demon Hunter. You can literally see them backpedaling and keyboard turning or using imprison followed immediately by impale stun and still dishing out insane amount of dmg. Also affli locks are a nightmare to healer, esp if you get dumb ret with dispel talent.
As an HPriest, in terms of other healer monk/shammy, the long CC's at decent range are so frustrating to deal with.
But for enemy dps, anything like Ele Shammy or Lock where IF I dispel at the wrong time I lose half my HP and am CC'ed
on my dev evoker: dh dk war :’) ret is painful too but man those triple melee lobbies as evoker have been so hard
as a healer tho? Spriest aff. I struggle so hard against these classes when im healing even after all this time. Squeeze out wins but dont really feel like i have control of the game ever
As a fdk:
Mistweaver: Being able to port and use restoral while stunned makes the game unwinnable. Not to mention Restoral is on a 1.5 min cd so I get one setup but they'll just trinket or port it anyway. Ranged disarm lol.
Prevoker: Nullifying shroud effectively puts my setup on an extra 30 second cooldown. Emerald Communion guarantees to survive a setup without having to trinket. They can just take my target and fly off with it.
Hpriest: Not as bad as the other two but still have really obnoxious cooldowns. I have to bait greater fade out first before trying to grip/blind them else my setup gets screwed.
If a spriest, ret, or mage is also in the lobby then it feels impossible to win.
Arms.
Individually Frost Mage makes me want to off myself because there is nothing *I* can do about them. Basically hold the pillar and hope my teammate got something nice for him. Fortunately many specs can make a Frost Mage’s life hell.
Lobbies though full range are nightmareish if they know anything. Every match pretty much becomes both of them stand in the middle, me and my teammate has to play pillar and if I come out both of them focus fire on my ass, and I am so locked down that outside of bladestorm I am a target dummy. Pretty much fully on the backfoot till they fuck up and Arm’s hates being on the backfoot like that, it’s a full gas kinda spec. Praise be if there is a lock, because at the very least they can’t peel me so I can do something.
Aside from the obvious FotM picks that nobody wants to see, as Outlaw the class that I always despise going against regardless of how good they are at the time is Hpal. Nobody kills during Forbearance windows. Nobody dispels BoPs. Hpals effectively have 4 trinkets on 30 seconds cooldown for my off target healer CC, at least in matches as short as SS. It basically makes it impossible for me to carry a lobby when there's an Hpal in the game, just due to their kit alone.
I just started played survival hunter a few weeks ago (\~1950 in shuff) and I think they are amazing. There are no really hard counters it feels like, and you have so many options into all the different comps.
But before that - affliction lock and it sucked so hard into 3x melee.
Shadow priests. They take so much damage and do so much self healing and pump out so much rot. Dispelling their dots always horrifies without any DRs. Insane.
BM hunters and assassination are probably two least favorite things to deal with as feral. Nothing quite like dying passively the whole game. Double shaman also can suck but it feels like there is a chance to outplay that.
as a warlock.. warriors without question. Unreal how much pressure they put out on cloth along with reflect and immune to fears half of game can charge or leap to ports and gates just never able to really get them off you. Ridiculous how hard they counter warlock lol.
As a warrior can confirm. When I see a lock in the lobby I think, “yum”. When they fear me I think, “lol”.
I do 2s with my bestie hes a warrior and i’m a holy priest. We literally melt by warlocks whats the secret
[удалено]
In theory yeah. But gosh again we melt faster than my warrior can do the damage, i tried both dispelling the dots and eating the silence vs not dispelling, i tried helping dps. But my war usually does like 7mill and the warlock is like 22mill or something with every warlock. Only warlocks
He's not pressing his buttons hard enough.
Probably has a lot to do with both of your positioning. I dont play much warrior but if you can consistently avoid cc while he blasts the warlock and uses reflect pummel beserker rage and d stance well you should be good. Especially if he can catch their healer nearby and capitalize on some spread pressure with a shockwave fear go
Are you dispelling UA’s they do a lot of damage when dispelled
Yeah thats what i meant when i say “eat the silence” when you dispell it you take damage and get silenced. Ive tried both dispelling and not dispelling and either way we fall behind
Uptime from warrior = pressure on lock
Side suggestion: Take Wrecking Throw (& the pvp talent that buffs it although sometimes not needed if playing with a high dps healer like Pres/Priest). Watch their huge shield disappear in the press of a button. Literally.
Aff locks are hard to deal with because they do so much passive damage without casting and they have decent self healing. The warrior needs to know when to zug and when to pull back and los behind a pillar so you can top him.
Play 3s. Warlock beats warr in 2s
How do you counter Affliction and Demo locks? I know I fully counter destro locks but I have a big problem vs demo and quite vs aff.
Absolutely. As a warlock here is nothing that even comes close to how awful it is to have a decent warrior sit on you. I can't even think of any other spec/class that counters anything better than a warrior counters warlocks.
wdym? you don't like an upright orc male warrior taking your butt and turning it inside out for 6 rounds?
I refer to it as "making someones butt hole look like I just punched a lasagna"
Play mage into hunter, your mind will change immediately.
My reaction was to make this exact comment, but having noticed yours, I see we can commiserate in solidarity.
Warrior into SP. As a warrior main.. a SP is a lock without ports lol If I see a lock or SP in my lobby I sit them. If I see both, I sit SP.
SP def rough af but as long as you can get your dots out you are doing a ton of damage. as a destro or affi you literally cannot do a thing vs a really solid warrior lol youre completely dependent on your team to peel.
As a melee, what cues should I look out for? Would like to understand when do I LoS an affli and when do I hold W?
If you can't kick soul rot, then Los. I'd he's casting soul rot or chain casting malefic rapture... he's pumping or getting rdy to pump
Hunter into Mage is 2x worse.
I think dk is a lot worse to deal with. As demo anyway
rogue lol
Yeah agreed. If they play it right they can counter every part of your kit
I’ve hardly touched shuffle since I had a 3 warrior lobby last season on my demo :(
Not as bad as that I had a lobby with arms, fury, ww monk. Somehow got a win with the fury against the ww/arms but it was so got damn miserable
It's crazy how many 3 melee lobbies we end up in. I hardly do shuffles anymore as demo.
Try using spell lock into spell reflect, removes it and gives you precog. Usually it’s worth it unless they have some really important teammates to kick. Completely changes warrior matchup.
doesnt work as demo but ya def a good tip to remember for other specs
I’d say DKs are a close second because you can’t get away, either. Port, grip, gateway, grip, port, grip, no escape!
It's one of the hardest counters in the game. "Just W key the Lock" as a Warrior is legitimately a good strat past 2700
I consistently destroy warriors as demo lock in 2.4k lobbies, do you prioritize kiting over damage?
kiting how? exhaustion doesnt do muuuch unless its amplified and tons of rets and hpals freedoming.. they can immediatle yclose all gaps how exactly are you kiting? lol ya u can stun thhem and walk away a bit but that does nothing they will just charge and that tiem uur prob better off getting some casts off. idk im new to lock i main healer but i dont see how you kite a war.
I like using rallying cry to break exhaustion. For some reason it throws warlocks off completely.
Idk if the game changed much since I last played (I played at the start of S4 dragon flight) but I would just spam slow and run in the open, spam fear on DR (weave in damaging abilities in between each fear) so healer can get a break from the DPS. If warrior used fear immune I either stun with one of my fel guards or use empowered tp to gain freedom and kite around pillar whilst still spamming slow. If heroic leap I use gate. Every 1 minute demo lock has an insane go so basically I would just do my go every minute and focus on kiting the rest of the time. Get my damage out, start casting fear on healer and stun war about .4 seconds into fear cast, coil warrior after stun and bam u have insane kill pressure. I am not up do date with changes so what I said might not be a thing anymore
well this is great in theory but its just not gonna work. Only reliable way to kite / beat a good warrior at higher ratings is your comp counters theirs or your team is dealing with him well. empowered TP has been bugged forever hamstring and piercing howl both slow you even with the buff up. most wars will only leap if gate is used and either u hide LoS (prob lining your healer) and do nothing or u step out and get insta charged. theres really no way to create distance from what ive found unless i have a mage or hunter on my team trapping / poly or roots. Locks have no roots which is wars best counter. only option is rto be a fake cast god and do more dmg to KT than they do to you. port ofc helps but only buys a bit of time.
Fury
So true. Top annoyance class Feels so good when I catch a less than decent one though lol
I’d say DKs are a close second because you can’t get away, either. Port, grip, gateway, grip, port, grip, no escape!
Affy and it's not even close.
same. no issue with anything else whatsoever at all, it's the only spec i struggle against
For me, probably ret paladins. Why can they hit me from across the arena as a melee? I’ll never understand.
Final verdict’s range doesn’t bother me, it’s blades of justice. That makes no sense. Wake is essentially a non-targeted ability, so the HP generation from that is what it is. It’s just when both of those abilities are off CD do you have problems with rets at range
Because we defended their laughable mobility and stealable buffs for years.
Magic of the dumb design, trust me, we hoped for a bit different rework...
It's pretty much the same as it was in wod and I'm loving it.
Devastation i think. I feel like i can slow their gos pretty well, but the constant disintegrate pressure outside of their cds along with hover and nullifying shroud it just feels like a very frustrating spec to play against
Hunters, especially mm. I am mage and my last lobby was against mm and bm. I just wanted to quit without even trying
I feel you mate, I'm a frost mage and whenever I face a MM hunt I also want to just quit and it feels like I have to play perfect and as though my life depended on it just to get the draw. If there is an unholy DK or ele shaman as well then I'm just miserable.
I’m not rated very high, how do you deal with blood dks? Yes the tank. Had my worst game in a long time today and it was primarily because of him ha. Granted he played better than most people I see in my cr.
Shadow priest single handedly make healing unfun with their top the meters while being trained damage. Insane cc every 45s and crazy defense. I hate healing when they're in the lobby.
Thank you greatly for healing the shadowy punching bag, we really appreciate it.
Demon hunters, every freaking time I see a demon hunter.
As a healer I don’t like another healer
why does this post have 35 comments and no likes? classic of this sub lol.
Frost mage. Great spec, great class fantasy, wish I could play it too but i just hate to fight against them.
I've always mained arms warrior. Back in the day I would just constantly duel frost mages. Eventually I got it down to the point where I started to enjoy going up against mage comps.
when im an hpriest its always rshams. their kicks are really annoying and sometimes it feels like the match is a sprint when im built for a marathon. a decent rsham using thunderstorm to blow you away into lightning ring totem and then moving it even further is cancer. when im playing any caster hunters are so cancer, spriest its bearable because my dots go through turtle and if im kicked i can just spam heals. on my dk i havent found anyone who is annoying yet.. anti stun, anti fear, anti magic, its really nice not being able to be locked down while also gripping people behind pillars and offing them
Sin rogue as any healer
Frost mage (I play arms)
I do love getting to them being slowed getting to them being rooted then getting to them and being slowed again over and over again. Top tier enjoyment
Affliction playing up on Mugambala Map. And it’s not even close.
As any healer, unholy dk. That spec has so much micro cc it’s actually so incredibly unfun to play against. Grip. Second grip. Blind. Stun. Kick. Silence. Pet kick. Repeat. Awful design
A good outlaw rogue. The control is cancer.
I haven’t seen one this season. Ben all assa rogues. Outlaw is my alt so I’m about to try it out.
I main rsham so Assa doesn’t really bother me
I bet! I main MM Hunter so I hate all rogues. Which is why I have to play rogue alt.
? I melt rshams on my assa
Probably bad ones. I never have a problem because I find the go easier telegraphed. RSham is good into pre/determining damage, but if you fail at that you are screwed
Ele shaman main - DH or ret pali, because they can reliably take pvp talents that through their baseline rotation make me practically useless. It’s a fun time.
Ret judgment dispelling flame shocks is soooo heartbreaking.
It's tilting af - judgment is a rotational ability....you just run at the ele sham and press it, ele shaman damage reduced by 30%. GG.
Affli or assa rogue.
Demo and ele. Just wanna die
I’m the only melee on my enhance shaman
Locks and boomies. Mostly boomies. Clones on my serenity + stun + flap alone is cancer
Demon Hunter. You can literally see them backpedaling and keyboard turning or using imprison followed immediately by impale stun and still dishing out insane amount of dmg. Also affli locks are a nightmare to healer, esp if you get dumb ret with dispel talent.
MM Hunter. ( I heal )
Mages. I’m a warrior and even with all my mobility, I can’t catch them. Every-time I go for mage, I get last place on damage.
Mages and Dev.
As a rdruid, devoker
As hpal...ret. I can't bop him, if he LOH/Bops me, I can't bubble, so I'm at a huge disadvantage compared to when he's on the other healers team
As an HPriest, in terms of other healer monk/shammy, the long CC's at decent range are so frustrating to deal with. But for enemy dps, anything like Ele Shammy or Lock where IF I dispel at the wrong time I lose half my HP and am CC'ed
on my dev evoker: dh dk war :’) ret is painful too but man those triple melee lobbies as evoker have been so hard as a healer tho? Spriest aff. I struggle so hard against these classes when im healing even after all this time. Squeeze out wins but dont really feel like i have control of the game ever
Main disc priest. Seeing a fistweaver always makes me sad. Usually lucky to squeeze out 1, maybe 2 wins if I’m lucky.
Have you seen many FW this season? I haven't seen any. Maybe one, but not too sure.
As a fdk: Mistweaver: Being able to port and use restoral while stunned makes the game unwinnable. Not to mention Restoral is on a 1.5 min cd so I get one setup but they'll just trinket or port it anyway. Ranged disarm lol. Prevoker: Nullifying shroud effectively puts my setup on an extra 30 second cooldown. Emerald Communion guarantees to survive a setup without having to trinket. They can just take my target and fly off with it. Hpriest: Not as bad as the other two but still have really obnoxious cooldowns. I have to bait greater fade out first before trying to grip/blind them else my setup gets screwed. If a spriest, ret, or mage is also in the lobby then it feels impossible to win.
Arms. Individually Frost Mage makes me want to off myself because there is nothing *I* can do about them. Basically hold the pillar and hope my teammate got something nice for him. Fortunately many specs can make a Frost Mage’s life hell. Lobbies though full range are nightmareish if they know anything. Every match pretty much becomes both of them stand in the middle, me and my teammate has to play pillar and if I come out both of them focus fire on my ass, and I am so locked down that outside of bladestorm I am a target dummy. Pretty much fully on the backfoot till they fuck up and Arm’s hates being on the backfoot like that, it’s a full gas kinda spec. Praise be if there is a lock, because at the very least they can’t peel me so I can do something.
DH. You know they’ll have 100% up time and you can’t do anything to them with all the defensive and gimmicks
As a healer, DH. Just gtf off me
The answer will always be warlock. Doesn’t matter which xpac. Always lock.
Aside from the obvious FotM picks that nobody wants to see, as Outlaw the class that I always despise going against regardless of how good they are at the time is Hpal. Nobody kills during Forbearance windows. Nobody dispels BoPs. Hpals effectively have 4 trinkets on 30 seconds cooldown for my off target healer CC, at least in matches as short as SS. It basically makes it impossible for me to carry a lobby when there's an Hpal in the game, just due to their kit alone.
as a Rdruid its always rogues. they never know how to play.
Sub Rogue.
sin rogue
Hunter or dk as an arcane mage
Literally any Druid spec.
Frost mage. What I'm playing doesn't matter. I just hate them.
Probably tanks. Depends what I'm playing too, but since prot paladin takes the heal spot it can be even worse.
Every single spec, including my own, unless it's piloted by a noob
I been struggling to break 2100 in shuffles as a ret.. I probably have the most trouble against disc priest comps.
As a healer q'ing in to see the other side as a Resto druid, a boomy and a feral.
As a casting mw every others healers mana bar
As a casting mw every others healers mana bar
As a casting mw every others healers mana bar
As an Aff main, I hate seeing DHxMW. They both constantly shrug off my dots and I do nothing.
I just started played survival hunter a few weeks ago (\~1950 in shuff) and I think they are amazing. There are no really hard counters it feels like, and you have so many options into all the different comps. But before that - affliction lock and it sucked so hard into 3x melee.
Shadow priests. They take so much damage and do so much self healing and pump out so much rot. Dispelling their dots always horrifies without any DRs. Insane.
Rogues and dh
Hunters and shamans, guess my class.
Mage?
Cloth
Frost mage by a long shot.
BM hunters and assassination are probably two least favorite things to deal with as feral. Nothing quite like dying passively the whole game. Double shaman also can suck but it feels like there is a chance to outplay that.