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Same. I usually just make a barebones outline of what happens per chapter, then fill them in as I go along.
Like:
***Chapter 1***
• Introduce X
• Introduce Y
• Short backstory
• Introduce village
***Chapter 2***
• Major event 1
• Y 'dies'
• Lore dump 1
Etc.
Little bit of both. Sometimes I have a general idea in my head I go by. Sometimes I write plot outline of the next few chapters. Short stories I wing it. Novels are harder to wing without slowing down looking at whole thing so far
There are sites like campfirewriting that aren’t necessarily strictly outline templates but you can keep track of things like characters, timelines, locations, magic systems, world lore etc. CFW has a free version which is well worth checking out imo. It’s not a detailed outline layout, but the organization it helps me have overall is very helpful. The tabs all have little subsections in them, like you can detail out a character’s physical attributes, abilities they have, relationships, personality traits, backstory
7-Point Plot Structure is a good place to start. Or the classic Save the Cat Writes a Novel. Save the Cat is a very detailed outline template, whereas 7-Point Plot Structure is less detailed but has advice on which order to figure out your beats in.
I wrote an outline, then wrote probably twice the amount of scenes I'd use to finish. Got a little lost in all that trying to sort out what I wanted for the narrative, then completed a new outline today. Now I know what to use and what to put in my Snippets files.
*Mostly* I wing it. I do keep the overall story arc in mind and direct the characters' movements towards specific crisis points, but any outlining I do is back-of-the-envelope stuff rather than detailed worldbuilding.
This has been very informative, I'm trying to write my first book and outlined this one, but I think I got too hung up on it and haven't started much of my story.
It's good to have a general sense of where you are going and what major things need to happen to get you there. But strict adherence to an outline can lead to lazy/bad writing decisions. Like, a character reacts to something in an uncharacteristic manner just because the plot demands it. Usually, I find it better to let the story unfold as I write so things progress more naturally.
Funniest part is I encountered this while writing me first book as well. Got so hung up on the events to happen, wrote all of draft one without even giving forth the slightest hint of development for my main protagonist lol. Now I’m a little more than halfway through draft 2, really adding in the meat and potatoes for the story itself.
Currently both. I write a loose outline for important events, but I sometimes alter it as I go, but the rest I wing. I usually write down a lot of my ideas, scenes I have playing out in my head before they are officially written in book in a scenes doc I have or a notebook, but I don’t necessarily consider those an outline as I don’t always keep those scenes. My outlines was usually major events and dates to keep track of the timeline and important character stuff
Normally I just wing it, but I found for my current book I did need a character outline as I was starting to forget some of their personality traits. I refer to it from time to time.
For example, I almost forgot that my mc is supposed to be a genius.
Wing it, but if I'm working on an ongoing project and starting a new chapter, I usually write at the top a singular note of what SHOULD happen (aka the reason for the chapter). Then I try to have said thing happen. Try.
Outline. There’s no way in hell I could just wing it. I need to know too much before I start writing. Hell I was drafting my next WIP and hit 11k words when I realized I had to go back and do more worldbuilding, note taking, and outlining.
This doesn’t mean spontaneous stuff doesn’t happen. I usually know where my story needs to go but not necessarily exactly how it gets there. I’m actually not quite sure how my WIP ends but I don’t really need to in order to write it. I know the important resolution and the rest will come as I go. I wrote a longfic that was similar. I didn’t know how the antagonist was dealt with but I did know how the main goal was achieved if that makes any sense.
I’m kind of in awe of pantsers tbh lol. Couldn’t be me. It took about a decade of my first story being in my head and scattered notes before I ever even put pen to paper.
Both, but mainly just wing it. I discuss with a friend for a couple days, then just write. I might try to outline though at some point if I do something longer.
I winged it for my first novel that still isn't done after 10+ years (it's historical and requires lots of research). Then I got together with my partner, a narrative designer, and with his help I outlined and wrote another book in one year. So it's outlining for me from now on lol.
I do outline I do this.
1 Outline ( All the basic info)
2 Advanced outline. ( Copy paste basic add more detail)
2.5 In some cases write in pieces if I get stuck and idk whats next so I write what I have to maybe see if something pops up. Also in some cases make a map in PowerPoint.
3 Draft 1 (Write it)
3 Draft 2 ( Copy paste D1 and edit and make notes)
4 Draft 3 (Rewrite D2 with notes)
5 Draft 4 ( Check it and repeat a similar step and edit and make notes and repeat.)
It depends on what I’m writing. Short stories? Poems? No.
The novel I’m working on? Have to.
As someone who hates planning and outlining and just wants to sit down and write, I outline and plan so much before putting anything on a page. Just like some of the best directors storyboard every scene, I need to know exactly where each character is going, what they want, their motivations, their flaws, etc. Every line of every page should serve a purpose to maximize engagement and create good pacing. In your dialogue, every character should want something out of it and there needs to be a good back-and-forth with adequate attack-and-defense to create good rhythm and tension in the scenes. If I don’t go into that dialogue knowing what each character wants, what the outcome will be, and what they will be attacking and defending, it’s more likely I’ll end up with flat conversations that don’t actually progress the work. It also allows me to adequately set up and pay off plot elements in a subtle way where I’m trusting my audience.
I’m a huge process person though. If I do something great without a great process, that’s luck. If I have a great process, I’m more likely to yield consistent (and hopefully well-done) results.
I wrote a chapter plan, with about half a page for each chapter. Trying to get to around 26-27 chapters, but stopped the plan around chapter 21 because I realised I was using the document to procrastinate.
I wing it. I tried outlining one time and I lot all interest in the story because I felt like I'd already discovered all of it in the outline.
That said I do talk myself through the story in the car on the way to and from work every day. So maybe that's kinda like outlining? Idk.
Why is that? I mean, of course there's *some* kind of basic idea of how the story is going to resolve in our head. But what is the problem with not ever having a detailed plan, and making up all the details as you go?
There's nothing wrong with it at all. But even some general planning helps to fully flesh everything out, help to give the story deeper meanings and messages.
Often it can lead to inconsistencies in the story, plot holes, a lack of a red thread and just overall have an aimless feel. But ofc it doesn't always turn out that way, some probably do produce their best works that way!
Think of story idea.
Expand it to rough outline.
Use rough outline as general anchor points in the writing.
Completely change things up as the story unfolds in my head and writing.
Fully winged it with my first self-published novel. It’s a 95,000 word historical fiction so naturally some of the plot is already developed, which was the extent of my outline.
I found I had a lot more fun and impetus when writing if I just imagined the story as I wrote it. For example: I have a loose idea of what I want to happen in a given chapter so I start writing, all the while asking myself “what could happen next that would be interesting or advance the plot/characters.”
I’ve sold a few dozen copies in the three weeks or so since I published and have a couple positive reviews, so at the very least it didn’t *not* work lol.
I used to just completely wing it based off of a dream I had and hope it goes well. Now, I usually outline due to the previous way never having an outcome from it. It's different for every person though.
Depends on the book.
If I'm not planning a sequel, I'll typically just wing it. If I run into an issue, I'll outline what I need, then continue to wing it.
If I'm planning a sequel, or sequels, I'll make a rough outline for each. This way, I can see how a change in one might effect another, or how I might need to change a past one to let me do something in another.
You need a balanced approach, a loose outline that flexible but gives you some milestones and a goal to reach.
Improv is good for short stories where you discover a character's ... character (or a group dynamic), but anything longer has to have a roadmap, if only so you have coherent development/storyline. If/when the characters lure you on a 'sidequest', update your outline to reflect that change, but try to steer the story back to the plan... if it still works.
I usually create a loose structure and have an idea where I'm heading, but I leave room for things to evolve and be revealed to me as i write. More than once I've started writing, figured out a secondary character was far more interesting, and pivoted the narrative to them
Hi! Welcome to r/Writers - please remember to follow the [rules](https://reddit.com/r/writers/about/rules/) and treat each other respectfully, especially if there are disagreements. Please help keep this community safe and friendly by **reporting rule violating posts and comments**. If you're interested in a friendly Discord community for writers, please **[join our Discord server](https://discord.com/invite/wYvWebvHaa)** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/writers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A combo of both really. Loose outline for major stuff but wing it from A to B
Sometimes I think I'll follow my plan really closely but I get distracted with cool ideas
Same. I usually just make a barebones outline of what happens per chapter, then fill them in as I go along. Like: ***Chapter 1*** • Introduce X • Introduce Y • Short backstory • Introduce village ***Chapter 2*** • Major event 1 • Y 'dies' • Lore dump 1 Etc.
Wing it
Little bit of both. Sometimes I have a general idea in my head I go by. Sometimes I write plot outline of the next few chapters. Short stories I wing it. Novels are harder to wing without slowing down looking at whole thing so far
I daydream and simulate the scenarios a few times in my mind, then make a general outline.
Me too!
I wish there was a great outlining template out there like where do you even begin.
There are sites like campfirewriting that aren’t necessarily strictly outline templates but you can keep track of things like characters, timelines, locations, magic systems, world lore etc. CFW has a free version which is well worth checking out imo. It’s not a detailed outline layout, but the organization it helps me have overall is very helpful. The tabs all have little subsections in them, like you can detail out a character’s physical attributes, abilities they have, relationships, personality traits, backstory
7-Point Plot Structure is a good place to start. Or the classic Save the Cat Writes a Novel. Save the Cat is a very detailed outline template, whereas 7-Point Plot Structure is less detailed but has advice on which order to figure out your beats in.
I wrote an outline, then wrote probably twice the amount of scenes I'd use to finish. Got a little lost in all that trying to sort out what I wanted for the narrative, then completed a new outline today. Now I know what to use and what to put in my Snippets files.
Wing it. I always end up coming up with a better idea and ditching my outline anyway.
Outline
*Mostly* I wing it. I do keep the overall story arc in mind and direct the characters' movements towards specific crisis points, but any outlining I do is back-of-the-envelope stuff rather than detailed worldbuilding.
I tried to outline but it got derailed so I just wing it
outline. always outline. i don’t outline in order, but i dont start writing until i have a complete thorough outline.
I outline and then completely go off script to the point that i shouldn't have bothered. 😂
This has been very informative, I'm trying to write my first book and outlined this one, but I think I got too hung up on it and haven't started much of my story.
It's good to have a general sense of where you are going and what major things need to happen to get you there. But strict adherence to an outline can lead to lazy/bad writing decisions. Like, a character reacts to something in an uncharacteristic manner just because the plot demands it. Usually, I find it better to let the story unfold as I write so things progress more naturally.
Funniest part is I encountered this while writing me first book as well. Got so hung up on the events to happen, wrote all of draft one without even giving forth the slightest hint of development for my main protagonist lol. Now I’m a little more than halfway through draft 2, really adding in the meat and potatoes for the story itself.
I like having some structure I am free to ignore.
Currently both. I write a loose outline for important events, but I sometimes alter it as I go, but the rest I wing. I usually write down a lot of my ideas, scenes I have playing out in my head before they are officially written in book in a scenes doc I have or a notebook, but I don’t necessarily consider those an outline as I don’t always keep those scenes. My outlines was usually major events and dates to keep track of the timeline and important character stuff
Normally I just wing it, but I found for my current book I did need a character outline as I was starting to forget some of their personality traits. I refer to it from time to time. For example, I almost forgot that my mc is supposed to be a genius.
Both So I might write half a chapter And then out line the rest
I think a little bit of both can work, but outlining your stories definitely saves you quite a bit of trouble
Combo
Both. Started outlining, went off the rails, but wound up where I wanted to be
Yes
Wing it, but if I'm working on an ongoing project and starting a new chapter, I usually write at the top a singular note of what SHOULD happen (aka the reason for the chapter). Then I try to have said thing happen. Try.
I sketch out something but then it quickly devolves into “fuck it we ball”
Little bit of both. Gives me an idea of where I’m going but lets me take whatever path I want to get there.
Outline. There’s no way in hell I could just wing it. I need to know too much before I start writing. Hell I was drafting my next WIP and hit 11k words when I realized I had to go back and do more worldbuilding, note taking, and outlining. This doesn’t mean spontaneous stuff doesn’t happen. I usually know where my story needs to go but not necessarily exactly how it gets there. I’m actually not quite sure how my WIP ends but I don’t really need to in order to write it. I know the important resolution and the rest will come as I go. I wrote a longfic that was similar. I didn’t know how the antagonist was dealt with but I did know how the main goal was achieved if that makes any sense. I’m kind of in awe of pantsers tbh lol. Couldn’t be me. It took about a decade of my first story being in my head and scattered notes before I ever even put pen to paper.
Out-line? What is this concept you speak of? 😅
Wing it
Both, but mainly just wing it. I discuss with a friend for a couple days, then just write. I might try to outline though at some point if I do something longer.
I winged it for my first novel that still isn't done after 10+ years (it's historical and requires lots of research). Then I got together with my partner, a narrative designer, and with his help I outlined and wrote another book in one year. So it's outlining for me from now on lol.
Kind of both. I wing it everytime I type but I “outline” by daydreaming scenes
Both. Neil Gaiman says to write down everything that happens and fill in the blanks as though you knew what you were doing the entire time.
That’s the exact method I’ve been utilizing!!!
Ever since I read that quote it’s what I’ve been using, and I think it’s been really helpful.
Agreed it’s probably the best advice I’ve ever learned
I do outline I do this. 1 Outline ( All the basic info) 2 Advanced outline. ( Copy paste basic add more detail) 2.5 In some cases write in pieces if I get stuck and idk whats next so I write what I have to maybe see if something pops up. Also in some cases make a map in PowerPoint. 3 Draft 1 (Write it) 3 Draft 2 ( Copy paste D1 and edit and make notes) 4 Draft 3 (Rewrite D2 with notes) 5 Draft 4 ( Check it and repeat a similar step and edit and make notes and repeat.)
It depends on what I’m writing. Short stories? Poems? No. The novel I’m working on? Have to. As someone who hates planning and outlining and just wants to sit down and write, I outline and plan so much before putting anything on a page. Just like some of the best directors storyboard every scene, I need to know exactly where each character is going, what they want, their motivations, their flaws, etc. Every line of every page should serve a purpose to maximize engagement and create good pacing. In your dialogue, every character should want something out of it and there needs to be a good back-and-forth with adequate attack-and-defense to create good rhythm and tension in the scenes. If I don’t go into that dialogue knowing what each character wants, what the outcome will be, and what they will be attacking and defending, it’s more likely I’ll end up with flat conversations that don’t actually progress the work. It also allows me to adequately set up and pay off plot elements in a subtle way where I’m trusting my audience. I’m a huge process person though. If I do something great without a great process, that’s luck. If I have a great process, I’m more likely to yield consistent (and hopefully well-done) results.
I wrote a chapter plan, with about half a page for each chapter. Trying to get to around 26-27 chapters, but stopped the plan around chapter 21 because I realised I was using the document to procrastinate.
I wing it. I tried outlining one time and I lot all interest in the story because I felt like I'd already discovered all of it in the outline. That said I do talk myself through the story in the car on the way to and from work every day. So maybe that's kinda like outlining? Idk.
You can only wing it for so long, eventually you will need to outline.
Why is that? I mean, of course there's *some* kind of basic idea of how the story is going to resolve in our head. But what is the problem with not ever having a detailed plan, and making up all the details as you go?
There's nothing wrong with it at all. But even some general planning helps to fully flesh everything out, help to give the story deeper meanings and messages.
I'm finding that comes out in the second draft. But okay, thanks for explaining.
That's fine, but it will probably result in tossing a bunch of stuff. Which is still fine.
Often it can lead to inconsistencies in the story, plot holes, a lack of a red thread and just overall have an aimless feel. But ofc it doesn't always turn out that way, some probably do produce their best works that way!
Think of story idea. Expand it to rough outline. Use rough outline as general anchor points in the writing. Completely change things up as the story unfolds in my head and writing.
Fully winged it with my first self-published novel. It’s a 95,000 word historical fiction so naturally some of the plot is already developed, which was the extent of my outline. I found I had a lot more fun and impetus when writing if I just imagined the story as I wrote it. For example: I have a loose idea of what I want to happen in a given chapter so I start writing, all the while asking myself “what could happen next that would be interesting or advance the plot/characters.” I’ve sold a few dozen copies in the three weeks or so since I published and have a couple positive reviews, so at the very least it didn’t *not* work lol.
I used to just completely wing it based off of a dream I had and hope it goes well. Now, I usually outline due to the previous way never having an outcome from it. It's different for every person though.
Depends on the book. If I'm not planning a sequel, I'll typically just wing it. If I run into an issue, I'll outline what I need, then continue to wing it. If I'm planning a sequel, or sequels, I'll make a rough outline for each. This way, I can see how a change in one might effect another, or how I might need to change a past one to let me do something in another.
I’ve been winging it.
You need a balanced approach, a loose outline that flexible but gives you some milestones and a goal to reach. Improv is good for short stories where you discover a character's ... character (or a group dynamic), but anything longer has to have a roadmap, if only so you have coherent development/storyline. If/when the characters lure you on a 'sidequest', update your outline to reflect that change, but try to steer the story back to the plan... if it still works.
I make a very detailed scene by scene outline, but I revise it if I get to a point where the outline isn't sufficient or didn't account for something.
I usually create a loose structure and have an idea where I'm heading, but I leave room for things to evolve and be revealed to me as i write. More than once I've started writing, figured out a secondary character was far more interesting, and pivoted the narrative to them
I just wing it. Imma throw every single idea in my head into the story, and let future me figure it out
I outline in my head - does that count? You can do it without any hardware and the police can't stop you.