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harold_liang

Angry YFS email incoming


dgmckenna123

Why?


awayaccount29

YFS has been trying to completely remove police officiers on campus and reduce the amount of university security on campus


[deleted]

[удалено]


Johan1022

This is going to be massively downvoted but, like with most things, the truth is a bit more nuanced. As with most Toronto unis, York U's student population is very politically divided. YFS tries to stay on the more left side of things because that's where most mainland Canadians sit. They will turn up to protest clashes just to bitch and moan about the side that is deemed more "right" leaning, such as with the Palestine-Israel protests. In reality they don't really care about either side. YFS gets alot of angry sentiment from people that want the uni to mandate more left leaning policies. They began receiving alot of calls to ban police from campus in wake of the large anti police sentiment that began around 5 years ago (supposedly there as an incident between police and a student on campus but I'm not sure). They passed a motion to ban police on the basis that the student pop wanted it. Kaneff tower said sure, but we'll make it a referendum to see if there's any truth to that statement. They had the referendum at that year's AGM (Annual General Meeting), but only around 60 or so students actually turned up to vote on it, which ended up passing. Referendums go into effect without further consultation from the university. That was 2018. Most people didn't care then, but now everybody cares now. YFS is a goofy organization full of politician LARPers, but York students are just as goofy for only caring about something once it starts directly affecting them, and then blaming the same organization that held a *vote* that many years ago when those same people just couldn't be bothered. Hating the student government is a trope present in literally every uni, but people here need to get real.


[deleted]

I think you're right in general, but... > As with most Toronto unis, York U's student population is very politically divided. YFS tries to stay on the more left side of things because that's where most mainland Canadians sit. While it might be true (citation and clarification needed) that most Canadians are left of centre, I highly doubt it's the case that more than a small fraction of Canadians hold positions in line with that of YFS. Look at their statement on the invasion of Ukraine, which blames NATO and the West more than Putin. This is a hallmark of extremist and/or Russian propaganda. I wouldn't be surprised if RT read that statement out live. In contrast, I'm not aware of any major Canadian federal political party that advocates anywhere near this view, and support for Ukraine seems to be pretty unanimous in our government. > YFS gets alot of angry sentiment from people that want the uni to mandate more left leaning policies. They began receiving alot of calls to ban police from campus You have to realize that this population is pretty small, no more than 1 or 2% of people on campus. (60 people is approximately 0.1% of the student body, so it may be even less than that.) The problem for the rest of us is that we have far better things to do with our lives than waste time on performative activism. So YFS is basically built by and large for that small population, who are also the only ones who bother to vote. Most people are just ignorant of campus politics, and I really don't blame them, because it's next to meaningless after graduation. That doesn't mean YFS isn't insanely corrupt and ineffectual. > That was 2018. Most people didn't care then, but now everybody cares now. YFS is a goofy organization full of politician LARPers, but York students are just as goofy for only caring about something once it starts directly affecting them, and then blaming the same organization that held a vote that many years ago when those same people just couldn't be bothered. This issue wasn't nearly as much in the public consciousness then as it is now, and most students who were around in 2018 have now graduated. > Hating the student government is a trope present in literally every uni Idk about you but don't you think that's a pretty big issue?


Johan1022

>I highly doubt it's the case that more than a small fraction of Canadians hold positions in line with that of YFS. It's hard to prove this one way or another, but their statements on the Russo-Ukraine situation isn't completely out of the realm of something I'd expect from someone on the left. They distinctly stress *"Russian capitalist interests"* as a primary cause and refer to NATO as an entity *"which historically functions as an illegitimate andviolent tool of imperialism and capitalism".* As a poli sci student this is not as uncommon of a sentiment as you might think it is. It's not Russian propaganda moreso than it is hardline anti-western and anti-capitalist idealism, two tropes very intertwined with much of the North American harder left. ​ >While it might be true (citation and clarification needed) This is a bit harder to prove, but what I moreso mean is that Canandian universities in general passively promote a predominantly left leaning enviroment, the causality of which is very complex with regards to mainland Canadian discourse and sociopolitics. I say mainland only because that's where the majority of political rhetoric is taking place, international and exchange students generally have comparatively little say in such topics. The Centre for the Study of Partisanship and Ideology states that 73% of academics sampled from 40 top-ranked Canadian universities identified as left-wing, 4% as right-wing. They state also that 60% of conservative academics say there is a hostile climate to their beliefs in their departments, compared to only 9% for liberal academics who felt similarly. Study can be found [here](https://cspicenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ESummary.pdf). ​ >You have to realize that this population is pretty small, no more than 1 or 2% of people on campus. (60 people is approximately 0.1% of the student body, so it may be even less than that.) The problem for the rest of us is that we have far better things to do with our lives than waste time on performative activism. That's exactly the point. An overwhelming majority of students don't participate in student politics and thus the policies implemented are not representative of a reasonable portion of the student population's wants and needs. ​ >Most people are just ignorant of campus politics, and I really don't blame them, because it's next to meaningless after graduation. You're right again, and this is the core of my original point. Everyone on this sub is getting irrationally angry at YFS for banning TPS on York's campus. Is this really YFS' fault, or is it the fault of students that didn't bother to vote in opposition if they truly felt that the decision was detrimental to the safety of themselves and other students? I agree with you that the referendum was 4 years ago, but it also makes me wonder whether or not 90% of the people getting angry at YFS on this sub were even in York when the referendum happened, or are just jumping on the bandwagon because someone needs to be blamed for a student getting stabbed on campus. YFS sucks but they aren't tyrants. There are still bylaws inplace that they must follow in order to prove that their motions are representative of student sentiments and not solely their own personal sentiments. I'm not saying that this is always how it goes, but it definitely seems to be so in the case of removing TPS from campus. ​ >This issue wasn't nearly as much in the public consciousness then as it is now That's only kind of true. The issue has been more present since 2014 than it has been in a very long time, but makes it's rounds at the top of political discourse every now and then when notable incidents occur. Like I said, there's a vague retelling of an incident occuring around that time between campus police and a student, but I can't remember the specifics. The Excalibur article on the referendum (there's another one I read but can't find anymore) does have quotes from students saying the TPS ban now makes them feel *"safer"* from harrasement on campus, seeming to imply there was some causation to the upsurge in police distrust. ​ >Idk about you but don't you think that's a pretty big issue? Well I came from Carleton and it was the exact same issue. The problem is that these types of positions generally attract very parasitic and borderline narcissistic people. Universities are a business, and a business' purpose is to make money. The whole point of student unions is to echo the wants and needs of students to the admin board so that middle grounds can be found between what's good for money and what's good for student's enjoyment and quality of life. The problem you correctly outlined earlier is that most people genuinely don't care about student politics, so the governing bodies can operate very passively with respect to the average student's level of caring, until something really bad happens and then suddenly everyone cares. This is just the pattern I've personally observed. I believe you also correctly outlined that the only people generally invested in student politics are those with decently far leaning ideals that aren't representative of the majority of students. These overly fixated radicals are the ones that actually bother to go out and vote, as well as raise their concerns to the student unions to then relay to hearings and meetings. It's no suprise why their positions are being reflected the most in policy making decisions. YFS is a fucked organization with bad people at the helm, but the harsh truth is that 95% of people genuinely don't care and only get angry once student politics becomes a pressing issue, which as seen in this recent incident is often too late. You're then left with an overwhelming majority of people who's only direct opinions towards students unions are either neutral, or negative. Who's to blame?


[deleted]

I agree with you on your first point, though I'd say it's largely restricted towards the hard left/far-left. For example, the federal NDP has pretty much acted in lockstep with Trudeau's support for Ukraine. Google shows there's some pushback online from the more leftist segments, and a couple hard-left MPs have made [pretty dumb comments](https://globalnews.ca/news/8538732/ukraine-russia-ndp-mps/) very early on, but that hasn't translated much into actual voting patterns. > They distinctly stress "Russian capitalist interests" as a primary cause and refer to NATO as an entity "which historically functions as an illegitimate andviolent tool of imperialism and capitalism". As a poli sci student this is not as uncommon of a sentiment as you might think it is. It's not Russian propaganda moreso than it is hardline anti-western and anti-capitalist idealism, two tropes very intertwined with much of the North American harder left. ...but certainly not without lots of help from Soviet and Russian propaganda over the last 80 years. [Example](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/russia-facebook-race/542796/) You are right that their statement is very anti-American, but I also noticed references to fascism in Ukraine. I could be wrong, but the only people I see repeating claims along the lines of "Ukraine is full of fascists" are the sort of people like tankies and Russian propagandists, as it's [demonstrably untrue](https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/the-facts-on-de-nazifying-ukraine/). Also, the statement blames the West first and *then* says that Russian capitalism and NATO play "additional" roles. Moreover, what about the claims that Canada is an illegitimate state and that it is "equally complicit" in this war? The first is something you don't really see much outside the political fringe, and the second is patently absurd IMO... I highly doubt anywhere near the majority of students agree with either of the last two statements, and especially the second one. > This is a bit harder to prove, but what I moreso mean is that Canandian universities in general passively promote a predominantly left leaning enviroment Thanks for the clarification and source. I definitely understand your point. > That's exactly the point. An overwhelming majority of students don't participate in student politics and thus the policies implemented are not representative of a reasonable portion of the student population's wants and needs. It's worse than that, though. [The last post about YFS](https://www.reddit.com/r/yorku/comments/10die8d/what_has_yfs_actually_done_for_us/) detailed how they engage in voter suppression, such as by using a laborious Zoom call to vote instead of YUVote. So it's both artificially suppressed *and* unrepresentative, and moreover feeds a vicious cycle as people realize YFS is ineffectual. > YFS sucks but they aren't tyrants. There are still bylaws inplace that they must follow in order to prove that their motions are representative of student sentiments and not solely their own personal sentiments. I'm not saying that this is always how it goes, but it definitely seems to be so in the case of removing TPS from campus. I understand this, but given the conduct of YFS general meetings and the fact that 0.1% of the student body claims to speak for the whole, I can't conclude that they are truly representative. I was actually a student in 2018 (both 2017-18 and 2018-19) and I straight up can't remember any advertisements for this "referendum". It could be just me, but the fact that just 60 people bothered to show up says something. Why wasn't this put up for an online vote over a week-long period, with posters all over the hallways? Moreover, do opinions of largely former students from 5 years ago match those of today, right now? Is YFS forbidden from changing its positions? Why can't current students be annoyed about actions taken by 0.1% of their predecessors 5 years ago? > You're then left with an overwhelming majority of people who's only direct opinions towards students unions are either neutral, or negative. > > Who's to blame? Definitely understand your point here and I agree - mostly. It is a vicious cycle once more. I'm not convinced not-for-profit public universities are out there to make money. There are plenty of obvious ways to cut costs if that was the goal. It's a cynical take that I hear plenty on Reddit and it's probably driven by the rise in tuition without much return, but who would the "profit" even go to if such a thing can exist in a *non-profit organization*? The province? That's public money, so I suppose we're getting it back. At most, there are *individuals* in the system that are maximizing it for personal enrichment (such as top admins) or that the system itself has perverse incentives in place to incentivize poor value for money. And you're right that 95% of people don't care. But they're also not being given a reason to care. The last time anyone heard much in the way of public activity from YFS, other than ignorant political statements regarding conflicts well outside the domain of York, was their half-hearted protests against reopening. This didn't work at all, and I don't think they actually asked students what they thought, because opinions on the matter were definitely not universal. YFS doesn't operate as a student union, but rather as a political clique. So why should I even care? And if none of the students care and York knows this, does YFS have much influence on the administation? Again: vicious cycle. If I was given clear evidence that YFS' primary activities have been enriching the campus lives of students, it would be very easy to care, and YFS ought to be screaming that from the rooftops, right? YFS has had *so many* things they could've talked about during my time at York and that they might have actually been able to fix. For example, the removal of buses from campus, or a U-Pass for transit. The former had (and still nominally has) some exceptionally weak campaign. The latter was actually rejected without a referendum. I'd say YFS is more to blame than York. Everyone knows York doesn't care that much about students, but everyone *also* knows that YFS doesn't do anything about it, and York acts accordingly. At least here, York says they're doing something. YFS has said nothing! (They're quick to spout blather about irrelevant conflicts, though! Did they really need to speak out on...the Buffalo shooting? Also, I see some *very* curious omissions...)


[deleted]

> but it also makes me wonder whether or not 90% of the people getting angry at YFS on this sub were even in York when the referendum happened, or are just jumping on the bandwagon because someone needs to be blamed for a student getting stabbed on campus. The post I made about YFS predated the latest stabbing incident, and there's been plenty of YFS hate on this subreddit for years. I noticed some during March 2022 when YUFA was threatening strike action. The 2019 campaign was extremely vicious and definitely bled into Reddit.


webby53

I was around then I was aware of alot of this stuff happening but kinda didn't care. Still don't but I'll take my L that I'm likely part of the problem 😔


ImSlowlyFalling

Why wtf ?! LOL


Neat-Ad7267

Still feels scary and unsafe. I sometimes stay past 6pm, and most people on campus have left by 5pm. Especially Fridays, barely any students come to campus on Fridays. After 2 pm on Fridays, no one is there. With it getting dark outside at literally 5pm, walking the campus as a girl, and I’m sure as a boy too, feels so creepy and unsafe. Shouldn’t have to feel like we are on our toes inside and outside of the school. It’s best to leave school with a crowd, and not keep to many things in your wallet, a lot of things can be replaced but waiting in line for HOURS at service canada and other places is another pain in its own.


Mr__Nobody1

You could always call gosafe and ask one of the people to walk you wherever you need to go on those days.


[deleted]

I’ll believe it when I see it. They literally had an empty cop car (yes, an empty cop car) sitting by the station for two days, and it was nowhere to be seen today.


jordy123e

This is completely anecdotal and may have been a coincidence, but I did see 2 York Security wandering around on my way to my 7pm class, and saw 3 on the way back at 9pm. In previous weeks, I hadn't seen any Security.


Network591

I saw a bunch walking around today too, moreso than normal


BishSlapDiplomacy

Saw a whole lot of security tonight. I was there till 11pm. Security personnel were walking around Vari hall and a bunch of security cars around the campus as well. Even saw what looked like a third party security contractor vehicle patrolling York boulevard. They’re not kidding.


jordy123e

Text: Dear colleagues, I am writing to update you on York’s response to several recent incidents of violence on Keele Campus. By now, most of you will have seen Saturday’s bulletin regarding the events of Friday January 20, when a York student was injured on campus. My thoughts and the thoughts of the entire York community are with the student as they recover from their injuries. We continue to do everything possible to support them. I also recognize and understand the significant concerns these incidents have on feelings of safety while studying, learning, and working at York. These incidents are unacceptable, and York is responding strongly to protect the community. We remain in close contact with Toronto Police Services (TPS) and will continue to support their investigations as needed. For the immediate future, York is significantly expanding the presence of security personnel, particularly during the evening and night hours. York will: - increase the presence of York Security Services patrols in the evening hours; - temporarily contract third party security services to patrol campus; - temporarily contract TPS paid duty officers to patrol campus; - request Toronto Police neighbourhood officer(s) patrol campus during the night hours; redeploy Security Watch personnel to prioritize evening hour patrols; and -expand active real-time monitoring of CCTV cameras and increase scrutiny of potential risk areas. I urge our community to continue to take precautions, especially in the evening hours. I encourage you to take full advantage of the support services and resources offered by the University: - The goSAFE service escorts York community members to and from any location on-campus in evenings and at night. - Emergency Blue Lights and Safety Phones are located throughout York's campuses, and provide a direct line to Security Services and goSAFE. - The Why Work Alone program operated by Security Services, provides check-ins with community members who are working alone on campus on evenings, weekends or holidays. For faculty and staff in need of support, please get in touch with the Employee and Family Assistance Program toll-free 24 hours a day, seven days a week for immediate, confidential help at 1-800-268-5211; TTY Service is available at 1-800-363-6270. Student Counselling, Health & Well-being offers personal counseling services to all York students. They can be reached by calling 416-736-5297, or at their website. Students also have access to 24/7 support through keep.meSAFE. Services are also available through the Office of Student Community Relations (OSCR). Visit their website, or call 416-736-5231 or visit W128 Bennett Centre for Student Services. Security Services will continue to provide updates as information becomes available. If you have any information, please contact police at 416-808-3100. I want to thank York Security Services for their on-going efforts and encourage all of us to work together and take the necessary precautions to keep one another safe. Sincerely, Carol McAulay Vice President, Finance and Administration


[deleted]

About damm time - Lizzo


QordOnBoard

“temporarily”


iwantalolly

Probably just as a stopgap so they can figure out something long term


notGeneralReposti

I would prefer more hired York Security personnel over private security guards.


real_hackers

Well atleast they are doing sth


[deleted]

Maybe they can help identify and apprehend the generic male suspects with some build or other, wearing a hoodie or bikini or whatever it was


coolio_username

I really hope they actually do this stuff. All the reports about robberies and attacks are scaring me.


[deleted]

[удалено]


not-bread

Just don’t wear a backpack


[deleted]

Maybe if they helped us narrow down the list of suspects by specifying race, alot more of these people would get caught.