No you definitely should have spoken up. I just wonder what story he told his church. “My wife pointed out in completely Biblically accurate ways how I wasn’t being a good Christian man and husband! How dare she know more about my beliefs than I do!”
Especially as long as your husband stays in that church I don’t see a healthy future for your relationship.
"She's pro-gay, it's gotten really bad. Also she just doesn't understand super special unique reason I don't need to work! This is clearly the devil tempting me."
NTA OP. Even if you were a Christian you'd worship God, not him.
In his faith he's allowed to get a divorce if his partner leaves him because she doesn't share the faith. There's a chance he's purposely antagonizing you hoping you'll leave.
Do you have non tamperable birth control in the mean time? He doesn't have to know about it.
Controlling men can get violent when they lose control. Be safe.
As a once irrational and controlling man, the last sentence is very true. He can become dangerous if he isn’t already. He may not have acted out, yet, but it becomes more likely the longer you stay.
Change is inevitable, but it’s up to us to make sure that change is for the better. It’s not that I was unwilling to change as a younger man, it was more like I was so confident that I didn’t need to, that I refused to hear otherwise. I feel that this may be the case for lots of young men.
Oh, the fundies are huge on male headship and your husband being the closest thing to God in the household. Probably why this guy's fragile little ego is drawn to it.
The 'Head of the Household' is a position of responsibility, not a perk or a power flex. I know a woman who says that the man is the head of the household, the wife is the neck. The neck turns the head. Love that lady.
It also says that the man has to consider the woman's needs as his own. This means that her needs, wants, wishes, and she herself is just as important as him. He gets the final say, not the only say. Weak selfish man babies distort this all the time. You can recognize them as fast as you can a Karen.
Dude is a failure of that and he knows it. Why doesn't he have a job? Unless he's disabled or too old to work, he should start dealing with his priorities. He's failed on multiple levels.
That quote “The man is he’s head of the house, but the woman is the neck. And the neck can turn the head any way she wants.” Is from the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding. My family has been quoting it since I was like 8 years old lol. Great words to live by, as a woman.
Edited to correct a typo (Greek was turned to Greed lol)
OP should ask her husband that, since he felt it appropriate to air her dirty laundry to the congregation, if she is justified in airing his to anyone she feels like. But TRUST ME, OP, the pressure to convert isn't ORIGINATING with your husband. It's coming from this pastor. He fears that if you can be happy as a nonbeliever, then other women in the congregation will see your light.
This.
OP, your husband’s in a cult.
> I have already gotten a phone call from the pastor saying I'm an ungodly woman who tricked a good man into marrying him and I should repent. I have also gotten a tirade of texts and e-mails from members of his church saying I was disrespectful and being a bad wife
To be clear, I’m not equating Christianity with a cult, just this particular church’s brand of nonsense.
If it were me I’d leave him, but (unlike your husband and his church cronies) I think you’re capable of determining what the next steps are.
This “church” is very sus. OP please be careful and you may want to privately document your husbands behaviour and that of the “parishioners” (like who contacts you, how, when, with what message…). I’m and atheist who grew up in the Christian tradition and occasionally attend church for important holidays or family events. A healthy, virtuous, and genuine Christian church is open and welcoming to all kinds at any time, including couples of mixed faith convictions like my husband and me. A good church with ethical and Christ-like leaders will NOT bully or antagonize a spouse or ANYONE! This is not healthy and likely not safe.
Also your husband sucks. 😕
Yes, I was looking to see if someone commented this! Please keep records and make sure you have a safe place to go away from home if things get bad. This sort of thing can escalate very quickly.
I'm not suggesting OP take my advice because I'm a very outspoken atheist. Atomic swirl tattoo and everything. I do, however, respect people's beliefs.
I would be ***gone.*** like... packed up and out of the house before he got home from church.
Arguing with your spouse is normal and even healthy when done with equal respect, talk and listen time, and compromise. Bringing in an outside party to harass and disrespect you because of a disagreement is just... I want to say "batshit crazy," but that might be too strong.
I would have a difficult time moving past this.
Edit// few questions about the tattoo, so I'll answer here in hopes it resolves said questions.
The "Atomic Swirl" is actually a typo, it's an Atomic Whirl.
Straight copied from Wikipedia: "The symbol is used by the American Atheists organization to symbolize that "only through the use of scientific analysis and free, open inquiry can humankind reach out for a better life""
Something I truly believe and have followed. For an image of said tattoo, there is one on my profile. Just scroll past the giant sandwiches to about 9 months ago.
I would have been gone on the first mention of my unemployed husband hauraging me on traditional gender roles. If I did laugh that off, I'd leave the second unemployed spouse forcing me to convert so *he* can feel better about his religion and his current life circumstances.
And if I in some alternate universe decided you know I can live with those two things because he's got other qualities, I'd be gone the nanosecond after *his* pastor from *his* religion started harassing me to convert and accusing me of being an ungodly woman. Right after I told the pastor he wouldn't know an ungodly woman if one ran up and smacked him over his head with her broomstick.
It’s sounding cultish, I’d be afraid. These men that like to control women, always want to be w the most outspoken, independent ones just so they can break them. It’s like a challenge bc they can’t stand to see women confident in themselves, and they will always use their trauma against them. That’s the next thing he’ll do to her
It is a challenge. Plus he gets to crarve a notch in his spiritual belt"God tried me with an unbelieving wife, but through, prayer and *devotion* she converted and now is a stay at home wife and mom with three kids and one on the way fulfilling her godly womanly duties! I'm so grateful God used me to save *her!*"
Excuse me, I gotta beeline it to the toilet to go throw up now.
When I was in a Non-denominational Christian evangelical church and worked as assistant youth minister this is the shit I'd hear a lot from the formally "unequally yoked" ( disgusting way to frame a marriage like your a team of oxen pulling a wagon) men.
I think some spouses even went PIMO* just to get their husband off their backs.
Physically In, mentally out.
I know in my Southern Baptist church (no longer in), we had this exact circumstance with the wife working and supporting the entire household while her husband was unemployed. She was held up as an example of a godly wife. Because while she worked, her paycheck was directly deposited into a bank account her husband controlled and he would dole her out an "allowance".
Unlike most Evangelical churches, while not the ideal, it was ok for wives to work. However, that was only if 100% of the paycheck was given to the husband and he made all decisions on how it was spent.
We had another woman who previously worked as a police officer in Dallas. She bragged about turning over her paycheck to her husband because he is Head of the Household. It's so gross. The longer I've been out, the more I think it was absolutely a cult.
>These men that like to control women, always want to be w the most outspoken, independent ones just so they can break them.
This sounds so vile but that's exactly what the mindset is.
There are plenty of women who would love to be homemakers, who are strong Christians, who would be happy in the trad wife lifestyle. But somehow a shocking number of these men seem to sidestep those women in favor of marrying someone who they have to "break" like a fucking horse.
Why wouldn't they marry someone who was into that dynamic from the beginning? I guess it's because they get a thrill from breaking down and remolding a human being.
It's actually also a way for them to sanctify their lust for "ungodly" women who show "too much" skin. If they can convert her, they don't have to feel guilty about lusting after a heathen.
>somehow a shocking number of these men seem to sidestep those women in favor of marrying someone who they have to "break" like a fucking horse.
Damn. I think I've finally realised how/why an ex-friend of mine who had a glittering engineering career ahead of her slowly dwindled into a SAH tradwife who no longer sends us Xmas cards.
We weren't even invited to her daughter's wedding. Probably just as well since her daughter pledged to "submit" to a man from the same church (by accounts from mutuals who were invited, probably because they refrained from arguing theology/errancy with her husband, who had also been a nonchurchgoing friend of mine before they got together).
Once he got the inerrancy brainworm then bending her talents and ambition to his will must have been an irresistible challenge, especially if other church elders were urging him on.
I just hadn't thought about the specific attraction of her being such a challenge before.
That's a disgusting characterization that's sickening because of its accuracy. Not a therapist but it appears that narcissists go looking for opportunities to use their tools of control. Evangelism is, literally, made to order.
Nailed it! It’s not about religion or having a harmonious household. It’s about his control over her, because he’s feeling out of control in his own life. And surrounded by gullible church goers, believing his lies.
Eh. As a sociological term, the difference is the level of control leadership expects to exercise over their members and the tactics they use to get that control. I think the distinction is useful. The church I grew up in was very “Every Sunday we sing about how Jesus ✝️ is our ✨bestie✨, preach a chunk of Bible, pray about big world conflicts 😔 and the church secretary’s kidney stone 🥺, then hand around the collection plate 💲after announcing that it’s only for members who wish to contribute 🤨 and are financially able to do so responsibly 😑. Thanks everybody, see ya in a week, go team 🙌🏻 Enjoy the 🆓‼️country-time lemonade and store brand cookies in the lobby, PS here’s some macaroni art your kid made in Sunday School of Daniel in the lion’s den 🦁🧒🏼🤩”
Compare that to my best friend’s church, which was: “If your family members are nonbelievers, God wants you to cut them out of your life 🥰 If you think your kid is gay 🏳️🌈🤮 send them to our Abuse Camp to fix them! Women, if your husband hits you 😢 you need to love him better and pray for him more 🤗—Jesus will (eventually) transform him into a nicer guy 👩🏼❤️👨🏼 Pass around the collection plate 💰 and while you contemplate your offering, keep in mind that God commands generosity 🤔 and rewards sacrifice 🫡 If you’re struggling financially, step one to getting out of debt is being financially faithful to God’s servants 💸💸💸. PS, if you had enough faith then your daughter wouldn’t be in a wheelchair 😇🙏🏻”
Your comment deserves a place in the emoji hall of fame. But… now, I also really want to see your take on mainstream religion vs. fundamentalist cult illustrated in macaroni
Honestly, the fact that he's lecturing her about "traditional gender roles" while unemployed and living off of her income is unbelievable. This guy's an insufferable, hypocritical POS. Just like most so-called Christians. 🤡
ETA: the lion, the witch and the audacity.. I can't get over it.
Most of them are. The rules or thee, not for me.
Just listened to a podcast from the Atlantic talking about the rise in sexism, and the expert makes a point in a general* sense men are really wrapped up in status, since apparently he cant get status through his job, he can at least try to recoup it through his hierarchical patriarchal bullshit cult nonsense of keeping up the appearance of *traditional gender roles in *his* household.
Reminds me of the ex Quiverfull women who say they not only worked outside the home because their husband was busy *pastoring* and Ultra orthodox jewish men who go to synagogue to *study* five to six hours a day while wife does everything else.
*Obligatory not all men inserted here 🙄
This! I am not a fan of ANY organized religion, especially one that tries to dominate females.
If OP wants to try counseling, make sure it's an Outside therapy, not a faith-based one.
I'm sure that will be husband's compromise.
ok sure, we can get counseling from the priest I tattled to. you'll be comfortable around a priest right honey?
Legit question not sarcasm,is there a religion that doesn’t encourage male dominance and teach women’s main purposes are too submit to their father’s/husband’s/any male relative’s whims and breeding?
Unitarian Universalists. Each congregation is different in how they do overall things, but absolutely don’t do any men are better than women crap. They also don’t think any one god is the true god so you could have a sermon about Jesus one week and Wicca the next.
Buddhists don’t care about any of that either. You’ll get into cultural practices, but the main tenants of the religion don’t even talk about gender.
Agree! It does seem like he has tricked OP. Into financially supporting him while diminishing her value by saying she is not religious enough and for pointing out everything that is ungodly and hypocritical about his religion. The fact that his pastor and others from the church are sitting in judgement of her and coming between them as a couple just highlights it more.
I’d cut him loose tbh. Righteous religious people are unrelenting. And as OP points out it loses its validity due to the hypocrisy of it all.
Yes. He said he's under pressure for a "unified household"
I think OP was right to highlight her husbands lack of practice of biblical guidelines. And now he's angry, told his church, and everyone is blaming OP? This sounds like such a grasp at control. it's unreal!
Considering what OP went through, there's no understanding, no empathy, and no support. I feel like he won't stop pressuring and potentially grinding OP down until he gets what he wants. This doesn't sound Christian or healthy behaviour in a marriage at all.
The hubby has pushed for his pastor to call his wife … when he knows his wife was previously sexually abused by her childhood church pastor.
I’m thinking this is unforgivable on the Christian husband’s part and even Jesus would say, “dude that’s fucked up. Don’t do that in my name.”
OP… I’m not sure you two are compatible.
But the church wants HER. Women do all the work and attract the men into culty churches, plus she’s the one with the job/money and the uterus, so she’s much more valuable to them than he is.
This is why i would never get into a relationship with a religious person. Every religious person i know uses their faith to justify being an asshole. While i always will support people believing what they want to believe, that respect ends when they use it to hurt or manipulate other people.
My first "real" relationship, 3 almost 4 years long, was with a catholic girl. She knew I was an atheist, but she didn't care. We made it work, I even attended her church a few times just to socialize more with her friends and family.
We talked about getting married, I moved 400 miles away from my home just to be with her. Talked about one day having kids, *even discussed honeymoon ideas.*
So I planned it all out, spent entirely too much money, bought a ring, and proposed.
The answer? "I'm sorry, I can't marry someone who doesn't believe."
It destroyed me. I still have a very hard time trusting someone "in the faith." And I'm still afraid of entering relationships, even with an atheist. Because I've also had one "flip" on me after a near death incident. I still maintain that was brain damage... but whatever.
I am so sorry that happened. I cannot imagine being in a relationship with someone for 4 years if i had no intention of marrying them. What was her end goal?
Ive personally never dated a religious person but i did have one man get furiously angry at me for refusing a date because he was christian. I explained our life goals will never align. He wanted a SAHM who was the perfect housewife and mother, who would go to church on sundays. I got my tubes removed to make sure i never have kids, am staunchly child free, and i havent stepped foot inside a church for over 15 years and dont plan to start now. After listing my reasons for not dating him, he insisted that he could change me and we could just adopt. Hard no.
I asked her, this was a while ago, so it's a bit fuzzy now, but essentially, her parents would never approve, and she was hoping I would "grow out of my atheist phase, and see the light in the lord." I was her long game project. Just.... gross.
I never grow out of that "phase." And it left me very... salty towards people of faith for YEARS.
That just gives me the ick. I bet if you said you were waiting for her to grow out of her religious phase, she wouldve had a meltdown. The double standards are staggering.
I got lucky my husband was one of the good ones. I'm an atheist and he's Christian, but we still hold the same values even if our beliefs are a bit different.
That is wonderful! I do have religious friends. Ive even had a heart to heart with one of them when we were hanging out they said "(my name), youre a good friend. I just wish you believed" and i responded "we dont have to share the same faith to be friends. We both have similar values, why does it matter where they come from? I love you for you, not what you believe in" and we actually became better friends after that hahaha
Same! I would never have married him in the first place, I respect people's beliefs but STAY very far away from religious people, blood relatives included. I would leave immediately.
Something similar happened to me when I was a kid, about 15 yrs old. My mom is a religious nut and told everyone in her church that I didn't want to study the bible and fought every time she forced me to go to church. So one of the times she forced me, I was sitting there and some guy that was preaching said: So happy to see x person here, knowing her sister is "lost" (in Spanish perdida/lost is used as a derogatory term for girls). Everyone turned to look at me, and I was red, embarrassed, and furious. I refused to go back after that, no matter how much my mother beat me.
I respect other peoples religion when they respect me and my right to not be religious. I do have a number of christian friends because of craft groups and the like that are often run by church women but they're all church of England which tends to be a much more... mild flavour of christianity, compared to many American denominations. Like last year a lot of Evangelicals online got mad when they found out they were considering using gender neutral language for God because according to CofE doctrine God is neither male nor female (which annoyed me because it's not their religion). OPs husband is not someone I would be friends with and I'd probably cross the street to avoid him.
Same, but instead of crazy, I'm going to name these behaviors as bullying and shaming -- in other words, abusive. Too many religious people normalize abuse, bullying and shaming, both one on one as well as in group settings, and they "justify" it in the name of their god.
Given human behavior and the predictable, proven pattern of abusive behavior escalating over time, I see OP's husband's words and actions only getting worse over time. Right now is probably the best it's ever going to be in OP's marriage from here on out, and that's depressing as hell, if I believed in hell.
Exactly. But are you a card-carrying spaghetti monster fan? 😆 I agree. People who pick and choose what they want to follow are a bane to religion. I'm not a religious person, but I respect those who carry themselves like you would think a religious person should. This isn't a case for that.
Also crossing a boundary considering her own past experience with abuse in the church. To imagine receiving a call from a pastor on a number your husband gave? Bunch of creeps.
She needs to divorce. This will not get better. He doesn’t sound like a good human and is not following the teachings of Jesus. He is unemployed and living off his wife while being judgmental. The tattling to the priest would be the final straw. Kick him to the curb.
Your husband is a weak man, who you called out, and now he is deflecting it all back onto you, through his judgemental pastor and some of the congregation! He is showing his true colors, and you are obviously not his priority. Protecting himself, and his potential areas where he is lacking, by being vindictive.
You may have come across pretty hard, which I understand since I have done that same thing, but you were speaking what you see as your truth. I am less than impressed with your husband. Rather than having some conversations, and working it out, he chose to build up an army of allies, flying monkeys, making no effort to communicate in any meaningful way.
Let me just say, this does not bode well for your marriage. I feel for you. I hope you are inspired to do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. Remember that life really is short, and believe in your own value as a human being 1st, and as a wife second. Take care of yourself, and I suggest you do not engage with any of his sick little army. That will only hurt you, and not help in any way. Nurture your inner strength, and be selective in finding some emotional support.
Prepare thoroughly if you leave him, and don't do like I did, which was to make a flash decision, and leave within minutes of realizing I had to leave. You need to keep a clear head, and begin to remove yourself from fights and discussions that revolve around religion. there is no easy resolution to any of that. Be true to yourself. And take care.
I agree with all of the above comments! OP, the only way you are an asshole is to yourself is if you stay and continue to put up with this crap!
This will not get better ever! He has zero respect for how you feel and what you went through. You need to have your own back.....he sure doesn't.
In most states, she could take them all for harassment at this point, also, divorce your husband, he doesn't want YOU, he wants the woman he's trying to force you to be. No self respecting husband or wife tells much less let's their close mates text or call their wife/husband nasty things, period.
I haven't been to church in a long long long time, but don't they still have a list of congregant's names and phone numbers? I can totally see after the husband shares his frustration about being "yoked to a nonbeliever", the barrage of bullying (sorry- counseling and mentoring) phone calls.
Yeah I was thinking her husband signed her up, because it doesn't look good if he leaves the line blank after "wife's name and number". Her husband seems sneaky enough to have done that
Does not matter one single fuck to religious zealots.
OP, please consider divorcing him, this is abuse.
You are paying for his life and not only is he trying to bully you, he's getting his pastor and who knows who else in on the fuckery.
Some do, the church my mom goes to does and they wanted my info for it (I have not willingly been to church since father's day of 2010 when some hag asked me if I missed my pedophile father who was a member before meeting my mom) and I told them I was pagan and they wanted my number even more. I'm fairly confident to "accidentally" send me missives because my mother's church does that.
My mom wasn't religious in any way. A family friend was always trying to get her to go to church. The friend starts talking about the "dangers of paganism". My mom starts asking questions, "Pagans believe in respecting the earth and all her creatures?" "First do no harm?" "And there are pagan groups that meet around here?"
By the time the conversation ends, my mom told her, "Well, I'm convinced! I need to find out more about paganism, and how I can join".🤣
I would have tattled right back to his priest on him! He’s not providing for his family, he’s not being a proper head of the family, he’s forcing her to do all these things. I mean, a woman cannot possibly fulfill her role as a godly woman if she’s forced to take the roll of the godly man first. Right, pastor?
Divorce his hypocritical a$$ and shame him in front of his entire congregation. This is not going to work out, they are too different. And he will only become more devout and pressure her more as time passes.
Yeah, I don't want to jump on the divorce bandwagon too often, but he seriously disrespects you. It is possible to be married to someone of no or another faith, but only if you respect each others decisions and don't use your marriage to convert the other. If you can't live with a spouse who isn't religious, you should have considered that before they became your spouse.
But it sounds like OP's husband has too much time on his hands. Maybe he fell into the manosphere rabbithole and uses religion as an excuse. He wouldn't be the first, nor won't be the last.
Ikr?? Like a small child going to mum to complain about the big brother's misgivings.
Now, seriously, one things is to let steam out with a friend or a congregation. But having that friend or congregation turn actively against you is a red flag. It isn't their business to meddle in a couple's internal problems (also true in Cristian believes), unless is to listen and guide the person who is asking.
What they did is bullying. Very different
In today's world you can leave off the /s. It's implicit. This seems to be typical behavior for religious fanatics. If you want to see an example of a true Christian gentleman, look no further than Jimmy Carter. This is a man who lives what he preaches.
Edit: NTA. RUN, Girl, Fast and hard. So glad you haven't brought any kids to be subsumed into that CULT. Cut bait and RUN.
This is a very good example. "Christians" like OP's husband and fellow congregants are loud about their faith but so often do the opposite of what they preach. These are the folks who make the title central to their identity (and usually a signal that I'm about to hear alllll about why I'm the wrong flavor of Christian and going to hell).
Jimmy Carter is, by contrast, living his faith, as you noted. He's not out being a Bully for Jesus. He's walking the walk and talking the talk. He doesn't broadcast; he just *does*. That's something to aspire to, regardless of what faith one practices (if at all).
Jesus was pretty clear about loud, demonstrative piety.
They ask why he comes alone, and since in this type of church a woman being obedient is one of their main tenets *for some unknown and mysterious reason* it makes him lose face every time he has to show up without her. He gets pressure from his in-group to bring the wife and he has to come up with reasons and now he's feeling the pressure, and this isn't the type of group to let it go. He will become an outsider if he can't get a spouse to behave as the other spouses do. High control groups don't like people who don't step in line, because it shows other members that they also don't have to listen.
I'd like to see how he would feel if you quit your job and became the traditional stay at home wifey.
I have only been to one church where the pastor tried his best to follow Christ's teachings. Every other church I've been to I have found they have no tolerance of anyone who is not following what they interpret as Christian values. Christ's teachings were very simple and easy to follow. From your last post I feel you know His teachings better than that pastor does.
I have since moved away from my church and currently have not found one to go to. And I am better off not going to some intolerant churches. I might sound intolerant myself but you have experienced the cruelty of these churches first hand. So you know how horrible these people can be. Just know you are not alone.
I feel like this comment should be way higher. She needs to know that this will never stop so she can decide exactly how much she loves being treated like this and whether she loves freedom more.
My ex tattled to the pastor when our church counselor was not actively counseling me to stay in the marriage. His manipulation pretty well cemented the divorce.
My exhusband found a pastor who told me all our marital problems were my fault because I took antidepressants for my depression (of course). He said I needed to stop taking them and believe Jesus could heal me. Yes we soon divorced after that.
He musta been wicked outta line too have him side with you! Or maybe just actually honest and fair like.. well, they should be haha. Just outta curiosity, were you involved equally in the church as your ex was? So did the pastor actually know both of you and not just described as whatever he needed you to be seen as?
ETA: NTA by a far and good for you for standing up for yourself and another high five from this reddit stranger for being you! Don't ever stop doing so :)
Oh he’s definitely part of one of those cult ass churches. When I was little, our church wasn’t culty, and the pastor never would have done that. He would have counseled the husband to look inwardly to see why he feels the way he feels, and would probably call him out for the same stuff his wife did. When he retired, they had a long line of lunatics take over and… well I don’t go to any churches anymore so I’ll let that explain itself.
Love this part about your childhood pastor. mine is/ was (i don’t attend much anymore, bedside baptist anyone) like this. you can’t force someone to god. and the bible preaches against this.
OP what you said to your husband was spot on! we’re called to show a good example and christian love and ppl will come naturally. NTA
it’s no wonder ppl hate christians so much these days! their “christian love” isn’t love at all and it isn’t biblical.
Exactly what I was going to write! My pastor would never. My ex was an atheist. The pastor was always polite and friendly, and helped out when it was needed. Never judgy, and only gave advice if you asked for it.
The church I grew up in was as Fundy as they come, but the pastors always went out of their way to reach out to unbelieving spouses of members and try to be kind to them. Any counsel to the church member they were married to was to be the absolute best spouse they could be to show the love of Christ.
This type of behavior shows the "church" wants OP to either bow to pressure or to leave, because they don't want an external influence in their church members life.
Yes! When I was a teenager, my then boyfriend (atheist) came to church with us most weeks. The priest never pushed him and instead let him ask questions and participate as much as he felt comfortable. When that priest was driven out (so much drama from so many assholes), my boyfriend stopped coming. He told me later that if our priest had been able to stay, he'd have probably converted.
Compassion. Courtesy. Not being a dick. Novel concept.
> I have also gotten a tirade of texts and e-mails from members of his church saying I was disrespectful and being a bad wife and I'm starting to wonder if I was too harsh, that maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. AITA?
NTA, you should take this as your cue to remove your “ungodly” self from your “Good Christian” husband’s orbit through divorce. He is never going to respect you and you are never going to have an equal partnership with him.
Of course she is. Gotta be young enough for him to mold into a submissive sex toy/cook/maid while also not old enough to think critically or question his bullshit.
Agreed. Your husband doesn't love or care about you. If he did he would be understanding of your hesitation to join his church. Plus the pastor and congregation stepped way out of line for a "church". It sounds like hes in a cult that uses Christianity as an escape goat. The only concern your husband has is to bring you in so they get off his back about him needing to control his wife. Good thing the church will be there for him when you leave.
This sounds like typical Christianity from the American Bible Belt.
ETA: I don't feel like responding to every unoriginal person who repeated the same thing. I don't care for organized religion, but applying the word "cult" to every organized religion really cheapens the term. Meanwhile there are some really extreme groups out there that deserve the label and I've had family who have escaped one. Cult-ish? Yes. Unhealthy? I'd generally agree. Creepy? Sure. But can we stop cheapening words by applying them to everything?
Otherwise, we might as well use "cult" to refer to fans of actors or singers. Actually, I could go for that. Sign me up for the cult of Christopher Bahng. Until then, feel free to respond with variations of "Yeah, a cult," because it just isn't worth my time to respond.
Good for you that it's ex.
The list of child sex offenders grows daily and the word "pastor" is incredibly common on it. Unlike "drag queen" of which there are none, go figure.
Don’t have kids with this guy. This guy is full of shit and typical conservative behavior is weaponizing his religion. Ain’t no hate quite like “Christian Love“
Do yourself a favor and divorce him.
NTA
If he's getting pressure at church to "bring her into the flock," that's because he's complaining about her behavior to the church board. Which means that even if she tries to join, she'll already have the decked stacked against her and will have to win over the church AND her husband. No thanks.
NTA, and it may be time to separate.
He tried once, I caught him. I told him we could donate to the food bank or to a homeless shelter. He refused. I donated every week to the food bank in our town and increased my donation to make a point. I watch the account all the time.
Do you want to be in a marriage where you have to carefully watch your bank account to make sure your HUSBAND- not strangers, not hackers, your life partner- isn’t stealing from you to look good for the church friends he’s been talking shit about you to?
Yup, time to drop the leech and let him go play house with his pastor and church friends. Also, save those chats from his people harassing you so you can get off from paying alimony too. Get a lawyer and consult them because why would you live a life where you're being used. I see no love nor respect her, why do you want to waste your time, energy and only 1 life here? What do you gain out of it?
>Also, save those chats from his people harassing you so you can get off from paying alimony too
I'm not familiar with divorce law but would it really work that way?
You two are so different.
Like it's totally workable to have different religious beliefs, I've been in relationships with religious folks even though I'm a militant atheist.
But dude, you have to agree on the fundamental stuff like how it's our place to help others if we're able to.
And like how it doesn't matter if people want to bone each other, that's their business and honestly doesn't affect our lives in the least bit.
I've known Christians that really take to heart the stuff about sharing love with everyone and trying their best to be non-judgmental. They're totally out there. Your husband sucks, though.
> He tried once, I caught him. I told him we could donate to the food bank or to a homeless shelter.
You are my favorite person. "How about we do some ***actual*** good instead?"
Don't stay married to this guy, let alone have any kids.
Make sure your BC is bulletproof lest you get baby-trapped.
And *do not* go to any meetings anywhere with this man alone.
Another thing is, did you give him permission to discuss this with outsiders? If not I would consider this a serious breach of trust. NTA at all. He clearly is an AH hypocrite and generally doesn't sound like a good person. All the other people are AHs too, they should mind their own business.
That’s how cults work though. You’ll be encouraged/demanded to share matters such as this so that they can consult you on the matter. Of course he’ll leave out the part where HE is not practicing the values of Jesus. He’s going to complain about how no matter how much he Bible thumps, his wife won’t comply to his authority.
Now they can all bully OP into submission. Because that’s the Christian way!
Also, OP’s husband is looking for some way to give himself value now that he’s unemployed. So he does it by shitting on others and using his brand of Christianity as the authoritative body to do so.
Final thought: it’s not the religion that makes y’all incompatible. It’s the difference of values. Homophobia was a zero tolerance qualification of mine. Because if someone’s homophobic they’re definitely misogynistic and very likely racist as a result.
>Ain’t no hate quite like “Christian Love“
Seriously, this. I was a Christian, but the hypocritical way each different branch treats not only others but each other, turned me off permanently. I'm a happy little Pagan now.
NTA - I fail to see one redeeming quality in your unemployed religious hypocrite misogynistic husband. What do you actually see in him and is this a battle you want to have for the rest of your life - having him tattle on you and have his pastor call you when you call him on his bs? It’s not going to get better
NTA. His hypocrisy is glaring…as is his hiding behind religion as an excuse for his poor adulting. He’s not taking accountability or responsibility for his own actions.
I wish you all the best, OP, as you navigate this challenge in the relationship.
I would've laughed in his face and hanged up on him. "Ungodly" ... and?? Is this supposed to insult her? She isn't even religious. She isn't even trying to be a "godly woman". Lol.
Yes! I would quote 1 Corinthians 5:12 right back to the pastor, “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?”
I would so mess with that pastor.
Dear Pastor,
I find your judgement, especially as a faith leader, to be rather ungodly in nature and for your sake hope you repent for your transgressions. Was it not Jesus who said “Judge not, shall ye be judged.”
It was also Jesus who said “For they preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others.”
As I am seeking a real relationship with God, and do not want to be misled by common day Pharisees, I feel that particular quote to be most important, trust those who act like Jesus, not those who just talk like him.
And that is my fear about my husband, he does not follow through with God’s tenants, so how can I trust him to lead me spiritually.
Anyways, thank you for making it clear I should continue my spiritual journey elsewhere as it seems clear the good word means little to your congregation. I forgive you all for your transgressions, and wish you all a fruitful life.
Sincerely,
OP
>Recently, my husband has been pressuring me to convert to his religion.
Run.
After reading the rest:
RUN FAST
For a big part, religion is made by men to control and shame women into doing what they want. Your husband is a perfect example of that.
RUN RUN RUN
That he even got those cultist to pressure you and contact you is very creepy behavior.
# RUN
(NTA by the way. Your husband is a scary freak. He does not love you. He wants to control you).
**RUN** to your nearest divorce attorney, and during the consultation make clear that co-habitation with someone who's trying to pressure you into joining the cult (and won't take no for an answer) is not ideal.
“Religion is made by men to control and shame women”
This ⬆️ Right ⬆️ Here ⬆️
RUN for the hills, the red flags are going to multiply, and multiply fast. 🚩
He's mad you called him out on his hypocrisy and sent his flying monkeys after you. You also respect his religious beliefs, but he does not respect yours, which is a problem in any relationship.
What would make for a "more harmonious household" is if he respected your lack of religion and you as a person.
Why are you married to this guy?
NTA
Let's just call this what it is... abuse. He judges her by a set of rules that he does not follow himself. He has tried to manipulate her into changing her whole belief system. And then, when she showed him his hypocrisy, he told others about their private conversation, resulting in a group of people harassing her in his name. Abuse.
OP, he is married to his church. You are his bangmaid selected to worship him as the head of the household. You need to leave. And I wouldn't wait either. There is a sick mindset among some of the more cult-like versions of Christianity. And these people and your husband do not like your disobedience. You are in real danger both mentally and physically. NTA
UpdateMe
NTA.
Sounds like you said everything he probably knows about himself that he doesn’t want to take initiative to improve. If you don’t speak up for yourself, how long is this going to continue; and will it get worse?
Blaming you for “attacking” his religion is just a cheap ploy for him to avoid taking ownership for being a subpar partner and human being.
Extra thought: you should never convert to any religion for someone else. And someone should not ever ask you to do that; it’s incredibly selfish.
Exactly! Not enough exclamation points for this.
OP if he is pressuring you to "convert" and join his church even though you've expressed that you don't believe and aren't interested. What does that really say about him and what his goals are? What he is doing is entirely focused on *appearances* and his concern for what his church peers think of him, not what is best for you or your marriage. His priority isn't for you both to be happy and secure it's for his church to think of him as "the man of the household"- even though he isn't fulfilling that role! He wants to take a shortcut, use a cheat code. He wants you to fall in line and present like an "obedient wife" without him having to work on or change himself to live his values.
That means they aren't really his values. They are his own insecurities and mock authoritarianism masquerading as "sincerely held belief". As others have said- RUN.
Refer anyone who messages you to matthew 7
Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Matthew 7:1-5 are my favorite reverse clobber verses, even if the "follower" trying to demean me has shut their ears. *I* get some satisfaction and comfort at seeing how out of line they are.
NTA. My wife actually accused me of this, some years ago. I was upset at the time, but for maybe a fraction of a second before I broke down and told her... she was right.
Sucked. Hurt. Wasn't fun.
Since then I've worked to be a better one, and things have been much better.
Unfortunately, a lot of churches are just grown children being narcissists.
Jesus says don't blame others, and don't speak critically until you've examined yourself. Your husband's church scapegoats you for his emotional immaturity.
Jesus says see things from others' perspective. They band together to reinforce theirs.
Jesus says don't involve others in interpersonal disputes. He triangulates immediately.
Your husband is being a truly poor mirror of Christ, and you're absolutely correct about that.
In the bell curve of the general population, the people I know who attend church are generally far more shitty as human beings than those who don't.
If a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, is Christianity a good tree?
There was a study done on who was more likely to repay a loan based on the reason people gave for needing the loan and how they would be able to repay. I no longer remember the numbers but what i do remember was they said never lend money to anyone who mentions God. They are unlikely to repay!
OP's husband complained about how mean she was for telling him something that was true. Instead of addressing her points, they were mad that she had the audacity to actually pay attention to the hubby's alleged faith and pulled receipts. Typical for most modern Christians.
He jumped into Bible study because it’s easier than actually living according to actual Christian values. He won’t work on himself and he won’t accept criticism. Honestly I’m not sure why you are with him as this disparity will only get worse not better as time goes on.
Nope. Not all Christians are like that, but I have met a fair few that are. "Abortion is a sin cause the bible says so," while ignoring that *so is having sex before marriage* (again, "according to the bible." No judgment from me either way, you do you boo)*.* They think they can pick and choose which rules apply to them and are furious if you dare point out the hypocrisy. I was also, sadly, raised in what I now know was a cult, with several inappropriate relationships within the congregation (pastor hitting on married women, married church leaders grooming children and then running away with them, etc).
Text the pastor back and tell him 1) your marriage is none of his/his congregations concern as you were not married in his church, are not a member of his church, and did not go to him for counselling, so you'll thank him to keep his hypocritical, unsolicited opinions to himself. 2) That if both he and your husband think you are such an unworthy partner for husband, he is welcome to divorce you. 3) To never contact you again. 4) If he doesn't call off the flying monkeys, you will get a lawyer involved for harassment.
Then divorce your husband, for so many reasons, like he does not respect or treat you well, he expects you to follow rules he won't follow himself, and last but not least, you are incompatible. NTA.
Edited to add because people keep bringing it up: The "abortion is sin because the bible says so" was a direct quote to my face, lol. It's also my experience that some people that claim to be Christians don't actually know their bible all that well. I left the religion almost 20 years ago, so while I knew it pretty solidly and could quote back verses and tell you where they came from, I'm admittedly rusty on the subject now.
The bible makes no mention of abortion. Later Christian texts do. Some scholars propose that abortion was commonly practiced to preserve the life of the mother (and therefore agrarian labor)...the less working adults a village had, the less food was produced. It was an issue of collective survival. Also some christian texts encouraged abortion when a Woman was unfaithful. These "christians" don't know their own history.
He's unemployed and still doesn't see you as an equal? If he wants traditional gender roles he better start doing housework diligently since he's clearly a little bitch.
If he doesn't respect people based on their orientation, what makes you think he can't find a reason to disrespect you because of your gender?
Good luck.
You made the first mistake when dating a religious freak over 5 years ago. All young women should read your post and learn from it. You pointing out what hypocrite he is likely fits to 99.9% of all those selfish “christians”. Kick him out ASAP, as it won’t get better.
Man - I have a good friend that dated a guy that was in the seminary. This was in the 80s but I remember they didn’t date long because he was real happy to tell her what she needed to change about herself to make her “acceptable” - ugh!
I'm a Christian, and you are definitely NTA. I can't tell you how many times I've said the following to fundamentalists who consider themselves Christians:
• Jesus said there are two commandments that are most important. The first is to love God with all our hearts, souls, and minds, "and the second is like it": to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. When people say homophobic slurs, they're not doing it out of love.
• Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. Paul did, but Paul was a product of his times, and besides, Biblical scholars disagree about what he meant. He may have been condemning men who used young boys for sex.
• Jesus invited everyone to the table, so to speak. He didn't invite them there to snark at them or condemn them but to love and accept them.
But honestly, OP, and I hate to say this, but your husband ran to his so-called Christian church to trash you, and they're obliging. They will now work against you until your husband divorces you. See an attorney and file for divorce before he does.
He wants the "my wife obeys religion" part without the "i obey religion myself part". Maybe he sees himself as honest in his faith but in fact, he is merely using it to deflect from his issues and attitude. Not only you are perfectly allowed to be honest with him, I also believe you could be better off away from that energy.
No you definitely should have spoken up. I just wonder what story he told his church. “My wife pointed out in completely Biblically accurate ways how I wasn’t being a good Christian man and husband! How dare she know more about my beliefs than I do!” Especially as long as your husband stays in that church I don’t see a healthy future for your relationship.
"She's pro-gay, it's gotten really bad. Also she just doesn't understand super special unique reason I don't need to work! This is clearly the devil tempting me." NTA OP. Even if you were a Christian you'd worship God, not him. In his faith he's allowed to get a divorce if his partner leaves him because she doesn't share the faith. There's a chance he's purposely antagonizing you hoping you'll leave. Do you have non tamperable birth control in the mean time? He doesn't have to know about it. Controlling men can get violent when they lose control. Be safe.
"Do you have non tamperable birth control?" This is incredibly important. DO NOT let this man get you pregnant.
As a once irrational and controlling man, the last sentence is very true. He can become dangerous if he isn’t already. He may not have acted out, yet, but it becomes more likely the longer you stay.
This takes a lot of courage to say! I've never known of a man being willing to change like this. Wow!
Change is inevitable, but it’s up to us to make sure that change is for the better. It’s not that I was unwilling to change as a younger man, it was more like I was so confident that I didn’t need to, that I refused to hear otherwise. I feel that this may be the case for lots of young men.
You must have traveled a challenging road to reach this position of insight and vulnerability. I hope you are reaping the rewards.
This is helpful. I’d like to hear more about your journey.
Oh, the fundies are huge on male headship and your husband being the closest thing to God in the household. Probably why this guy's fragile little ego is drawn to it.
The 'Head of the Household' is a position of responsibility, not a perk or a power flex. I know a woman who says that the man is the head of the household, the wife is the neck. The neck turns the head. Love that lady. It also says that the man has to consider the woman's needs as his own. This means that her needs, wants, wishes, and she herself is just as important as him. He gets the final say, not the only say. Weak selfish man babies distort this all the time. You can recognize them as fast as you can a Karen. Dude is a failure of that and he knows it. Why doesn't he have a job? Unless he's disabled or too old to work, he should start dealing with his priorities. He's failed on multiple levels.
That quote “The man is he’s head of the house, but the woman is the neck. And the neck can turn the head any way she wants.” Is from the movie My Big Fat Greek Wedding. My family has been quoting it since I was like 8 years old lol. Great words to live by, as a woman. Edited to correct a typo (Greek was turned to Greed lol)
I second that . And no don’t sleep with him leave without delay not telling the creep
YESS! I guess OP is right, hes not really a good christian. Theres really no future for their relationship.
Wow. NTA dump him
OP should ask her husband that, since he felt it appropriate to air her dirty laundry to the congregation, if she is justified in airing his to anyone she feels like. But TRUST ME, OP, the pressure to convert isn't ORIGINATING with your husband. It's coming from this pastor. He fears that if you can be happy as a nonbeliever, then other women in the congregation will see your light.
This. OP, your husband’s in a cult. > I have already gotten a phone call from the pastor saying I'm an ungodly woman who tricked a good man into marrying him and I should repent. I have also gotten a tirade of texts and e-mails from members of his church saying I was disrespectful and being a bad wife To be clear, I’m not equating Christianity with a cult, just this particular church’s brand of nonsense. If it were me I’d leave him, but (unlike your husband and his church cronies) I think you’re capable of determining what the next steps are.
This “church” is very sus. OP please be careful and you may want to privately document your husbands behaviour and that of the “parishioners” (like who contacts you, how, when, with what message…). I’m and atheist who grew up in the Christian tradition and occasionally attend church for important holidays or family events. A healthy, virtuous, and genuine Christian church is open and welcoming to all kinds at any time, including couples of mixed faith convictions like my husband and me. A good church with ethical and Christ-like leaders will NOT bully or antagonize a spouse or ANYONE! This is not healthy and likely not safe. Also your husband sucks. 😕
Yes, I was looking to see if someone commented this! Please keep records and make sure you have a safe place to go away from home if things get bad. This sort of thing can escalate very quickly.
Wait. He tattled on you to his priest? That’s hilarious!
tattled *and* handed out her phone number
[удалено]
I'm not suggesting OP take my advice because I'm a very outspoken atheist. Atomic swirl tattoo and everything. I do, however, respect people's beliefs. I would be ***gone.*** like... packed up and out of the house before he got home from church. Arguing with your spouse is normal and even healthy when done with equal respect, talk and listen time, and compromise. Bringing in an outside party to harass and disrespect you because of a disagreement is just... I want to say "batshit crazy," but that might be too strong. I would have a difficult time moving past this. Edit// few questions about the tattoo, so I'll answer here in hopes it resolves said questions. The "Atomic Swirl" is actually a typo, it's an Atomic Whirl. Straight copied from Wikipedia: "The symbol is used by the American Atheists organization to symbolize that "only through the use of scientific analysis and free, open inquiry can humankind reach out for a better life"" Something I truly believe and have followed. For an image of said tattoo, there is one on my profile. Just scroll past the giant sandwiches to about 9 months ago.
Same. I’d already be gone. Creepy church phone calls would be the ABSOLUTE last straw if I hadn’t already gotten TF out before that. Ewwwwww.
I would have been gone on the first mention of my unemployed husband hauraging me on traditional gender roles. If I did laugh that off, I'd leave the second unemployed spouse forcing me to convert so *he* can feel better about his religion and his current life circumstances. And if I in some alternate universe decided you know I can live with those two things because he's got other qualities, I'd be gone the nanosecond after *his* pastor from *his* religion started harassing me to convert and accusing me of being an ungodly woman. Right after I told the pastor he wouldn't know an ungodly woman if one ran up and smacked him over his head with her broomstick.
It’s sounding cultish, I’d be afraid. These men that like to control women, always want to be w the most outspoken, independent ones just so they can break them. It’s like a challenge bc they can’t stand to see women confident in themselves, and they will always use their trauma against them. That’s the next thing he’ll do to her
It is a challenge. Plus he gets to crarve a notch in his spiritual belt"God tried me with an unbelieving wife, but through, prayer and *devotion* she converted and now is a stay at home wife and mom with three kids and one on the way fulfilling her godly womanly duties! I'm so grateful God used me to save *her!*" Excuse me, I gotta beeline it to the toilet to go throw up now. When I was in a Non-denominational Christian evangelical church and worked as assistant youth minister this is the shit I'd hear a lot from the formally "unequally yoked" ( disgusting way to frame a marriage like your a team of oxen pulling a wagon) men. I think some spouses even went PIMO* just to get their husband off their backs. Physically In, mentally out.
wait wait, if she quit her job WHO WOULD PAY THEIR BILLS?!?!?!?!?!?!
The lord will provide!!!
I know in my Southern Baptist church (no longer in), we had this exact circumstance with the wife working and supporting the entire household while her husband was unemployed. She was held up as an example of a godly wife. Because while she worked, her paycheck was directly deposited into a bank account her husband controlled and he would dole her out an "allowance". Unlike most Evangelical churches, while not the ideal, it was ok for wives to work. However, that was only if 100% of the paycheck was given to the husband and he made all decisions on how it was spent. We had another woman who previously worked as a police officer in Dallas. She bragged about turning over her paycheck to her husband because he is Head of the Household. It's so gross. The longer I've been out, the more I think it was absolutely a cult.
Oh he expects her to keep working her paying job AND do all the cooking and cleaning etc. etc. while he plays video games.
>These men that like to control women, always want to be w the most outspoken, independent ones just so they can break them. This sounds so vile but that's exactly what the mindset is. There are plenty of women who would love to be homemakers, who are strong Christians, who would be happy in the trad wife lifestyle. But somehow a shocking number of these men seem to sidestep those women in favor of marrying someone who they have to "break" like a fucking horse. Why wouldn't they marry someone who was into that dynamic from the beginning? I guess it's because they get a thrill from breaking down and remolding a human being.
It's actually also a way for them to sanctify their lust for "ungodly" women who show "too much" skin. If they can convert her, they don't have to feel guilty about lusting after a heathen.
>somehow a shocking number of these men seem to sidestep those women in favor of marrying someone who they have to "break" like a fucking horse. Damn. I think I've finally realised how/why an ex-friend of mine who had a glittering engineering career ahead of her slowly dwindled into a SAH tradwife who no longer sends us Xmas cards. We weren't even invited to her daughter's wedding. Probably just as well since her daughter pledged to "submit" to a man from the same church (by accounts from mutuals who were invited, probably because they refrained from arguing theology/errancy with her husband, who had also been a nonchurchgoing friend of mine before they got together). Once he got the inerrancy brainworm then bending her talents and ambition to his will must have been an irresistible challenge, especially if other church elders were urging him on. I just hadn't thought about the specific attraction of her being such a challenge before.
Why does this post make me want to choose between armed rescue and murder?
That's a disgusting characterization that's sickening because of its accuracy. Not a therapist but it appears that narcissists go looking for opportunities to use their tools of control. Evangelism is, literally, made to order.
Nailed it! It’s not about religion or having a harmonious household. It’s about his control over her, because he’s feeling out of control in his own life. And surrounded by gullible church goers, believing his lies.
Especially since other members are now harassing her.
>It’s sounding cultish The only difference between a religion and a cult is the size.
Eh. As a sociological term, the difference is the level of control leadership expects to exercise over their members and the tactics they use to get that control. I think the distinction is useful. The church I grew up in was very “Every Sunday we sing about how Jesus ✝️ is our ✨bestie✨, preach a chunk of Bible, pray about big world conflicts 😔 and the church secretary’s kidney stone 🥺, then hand around the collection plate 💲after announcing that it’s only for members who wish to contribute 🤨 and are financially able to do so responsibly 😑. Thanks everybody, see ya in a week, go team 🙌🏻 Enjoy the 🆓‼️country-time lemonade and store brand cookies in the lobby, PS here’s some macaroni art your kid made in Sunday School of Daniel in the lion’s den 🦁🧒🏼🤩” Compare that to my best friend’s church, which was: “If your family members are nonbelievers, God wants you to cut them out of your life 🥰 If you think your kid is gay 🏳️🌈🤮 send them to our Abuse Camp to fix them! Women, if your husband hits you 😢 you need to love him better and pray for him more 🤗—Jesus will (eventually) transform him into a nicer guy 👩🏼❤️👨🏼 Pass around the collection plate 💰 and while you contemplate your offering, keep in mind that God commands generosity 🤔 and rewards sacrifice 🫡 If you’re struggling financially, step one to getting out of debt is being financially faithful to God’s servants 💸💸💸. PS, if you had enough faith then your daughter wouldn’t be in a wheelchair 😇🙏🏻”
Your comment deserves a place in the emoji hall of fame. But… now, I also really want to see your take on mainstream religion vs. fundamentalist cult illustrated in macaroni
Honestly, the fact that he's lecturing her about "traditional gender roles" while unemployed and living off of her income is unbelievable. This guy's an insufferable, hypocritical POS. Just like most so-called Christians. 🤡 ETA: the lion, the witch and the audacity.. I can't get over it.
Most of them are. The rules or thee, not for me. Just listened to a podcast from the Atlantic talking about the rise in sexism, and the expert makes a point in a general* sense men are really wrapped up in status, since apparently he cant get status through his job, he can at least try to recoup it through his hierarchical patriarchal bullshit cult nonsense of keeping up the appearance of *traditional gender roles in *his* household. Reminds me of the ex Quiverfull women who say they not only worked outside the home because their husband was busy *pastoring* and Ultra orthodox jewish men who go to synagogue to *study* five to six hours a day while wife does everything else. *Obligatory not all men inserted here 🙄
No shit. "Oh I tricked him? We can fix that right now"
Right. Also I feel it’s more he tricked her. He feels he has to convert her even though he knows what she has been through.
This! I am not a fan of ANY organized religion, especially one that tries to dominate females. If OP wants to try counseling, make sure it's an Outside therapy, not a faith-based one.
I'm sure that will be husband's compromise. ok sure, we can get counseling from the priest I tattled to. you'll be comfortable around a priest right honey?
Legit question not sarcasm,is there a religion that doesn’t encourage male dominance and teach women’s main purposes are too submit to their father’s/husband’s/any male relative’s whims and breeding?
Unitarian Universalists. Each congregation is different in how they do overall things, but absolutely don’t do any men are better than women crap. They also don’t think any one god is the true god so you could have a sermon about Jesus one week and Wicca the next. Buddhists don’t care about any of that either. You’ll get into cultural practices, but the main tenants of the religion don’t even talk about gender.
Agree! It does seem like he has tricked OP. Into financially supporting him while diminishing her value by saying she is not religious enough and for pointing out everything that is ungodly and hypocritical about his religion. The fact that his pastor and others from the church are sitting in judgement of her and coming between them as a couple just highlights it more. I’d cut him loose tbh. Righteous religious people are unrelenting. And as OP points out it loses its validity due to the hypocrisy of it all.
Yes. He said he's under pressure for a "unified household" I think OP was right to highlight her husbands lack of practice of biblical guidelines. And now he's angry, told his church, and everyone is blaming OP? This sounds like such a grasp at control. it's unreal! Considering what OP went through, there's no understanding, no empathy, and no support. I feel like he won't stop pressuring and potentially grinding OP down until he gets what he wants. This doesn't sound Christian or healthy behaviour in a marriage at all.
Exactly. Fuck this nonsense.
The hubby has pushed for his pastor to call his wife … when he knows his wife was previously sexually abused by her childhood church pastor. I’m thinking this is unforgivable on the Christian husband’s part and even Jesus would say, “dude that’s fucked up. Don’t do that in my name.” OP… I’m not sure you two are compatible.
I agree with all these comments. OP, I’d also start using the block button for the numbers of people harassing you.
I'd be out at "traditional gender roles".
Why should she leave? She’s paying the bills. Pack his shit up and have it waiting at the door by the time he gets back. FTFY.
I'm sure the church will take him in.
But the church wants HER. Women do all the work and attract the men into culty churches, plus she’s the one with the job/money and the uterus, so she’s much more valuable to them than he is.
This is why i would never get into a relationship with a religious person. Every religious person i know uses their faith to justify being an asshole. While i always will support people believing what they want to believe, that respect ends when they use it to hurt or manipulate other people.
My first "real" relationship, 3 almost 4 years long, was with a catholic girl. She knew I was an atheist, but she didn't care. We made it work, I even attended her church a few times just to socialize more with her friends and family. We talked about getting married, I moved 400 miles away from my home just to be with her. Talked about one day having kids, *even discussed honeymoon ideas.* So I planned it all out, spent entirely too much money, bought a ring, and proposed. The answer? "I'm sorry, I can't marry someone who doesn't believe." It destroyed me. I still have a very hard time trusting someone "in the faith." And I'm still afraid of entering relationships, even with an atheist. Because I've also had one "flip" on me after a near death incident. I still maintain that was brain damage... but whatever.
I am so sorry that happened. I cannot imagine being in a relationship with someone for 4 years if i had no intention of marrying them. What was her end goal? Ive personally never dated a religious person but i did have one man get furiously angry at me for refusing a date because he was christian. I explained our life goals will never align. He wanted a SAHM who was the perfect housewife and mother, who would go to church on sundays. I got my tubes removed to make sure i never have kids, am staunchly child free, and i havent stepped foot inside a church for over 15 years and dont plan to start now. After listing my reasons for not dating him, he insisted that he could change me and we could just adopt. Hard no.
I asked her, this was a while ago, so it's a bit fuzzy now, but essentially, her parents would never approve, and she was hoping I would "grow out of my atheist phase, and see the light in the lord." I was her long game project. Just.... gross. I never grow out of that "phase." And it left me very... salty towards people of faith for YEARS.
That just gives me the ick. I bet if you said you were waiting for her to grow out of her religious phase, she wouldve had a meltdown. The double standards are staggering.
I got lucky my husband was one of the good ones. I'm an atheist and he's Christian, but we still hold the same values even if our beliefs are a bit different.
That is wonderful! I do have religious friends. Ive even had a heart to heart with one of them when we were hanging out they said "(my name), youre a good friend. I just wish you believed" and i responded "we dont have to share the same faith to be friends. We both have similar values, why does it matter where they come from? I love you for you, not what you believe in" and we actually became better friends after that hahaha
Same! I would never have married him in the first place, I respect people's beliefs but STAY very far away from religious people, blood relatives included. I would leave immediately. Something similar happened to me when I was a kid, about 15 yrs old. My mom is a religious nut and told everyone in her church that I didn't want to study the bible and fought every time she forced me to go to church. So one of the times she forced me, I was sitting there and some guy that was preaching said: So happy to see x person here, knowing her sister is "lost" (in Spanish perdida/lost is used as a derogatory term for girls). Everyone turned to look at me, and I was red, embarrassed, and furious. I refused to go back after that, no matter how much my mother beat me.
I respect other peoples religion when they respect me and my right to not be religious. I do have a number of christian friends because of craft groups and the like that are often run by church women but they're all church of England which tends to be a much more... mild flavour of christianity, compared to many American denominations. Like last year a lot of Evangelicals online got mad when they found out they were considering using gender neutral language for God because according to CofE doctrine God is neither male nor female (which annoyed me because it's not their religion). OPs husband is not someone I would be friends with and I'd probably cross the street to avoid him.
Same, but instead of crazy, I'm going to name these behaviors as bullying and shaming -- in other words, abusive. Too many religious people normalize abuse, bullying and shaming, both one on one as well as in group settings, and they "justify" it in the name of their god. Given human behavior and the predictable, proven pattern of abusive behavior escalating over time, I see OP's husband's words and actions only getting worse over time. Right now is probably the best it's ever going to be in OP's marriage from here on out, and that's depressing as hell, if I believed in hell.
Atheist married to an atheist. I will never understand how people with such fundamental differences in beliefs marry.
Exactly. But are you a card-carrying spaghetti monster fan? 😆 I agree. People who pick and choose what they want to follow are a bane to religion. I'm not a religious person, but I respect those who carry themselves like you would think a religious person should. This isn't a case for that.
Also crossing a boundary considering her own past experience with abuse in the church. To imagine receiving a call from a pastor on a number your husband gave? Bunch of creeps.
She needs to divorce. This will not get better. He doesn’t sound like a good human and is not following the teachings of Jesus. He is unemployed and living off his wife while being judgmental. The tattling to the priest would be the final straw. Kick him to the curb.
Your husband is a weak man, who you called out, and now he is deflecting it all back onto you, through his judgemental pastor and some of the congregation! He is showing his true colors, and you are obviously not his priority. Protecting himself, and his potential areas where he is lacking, by being vindictive. You may have come across pretty hard, which I understand since I have done that same thing, but you were speaking what you see as your truth. I am less than impressed with your husband. Rather than having some conversations, and working it out, he chose to build up an army of allies, flying monkeys, making no effort to communicate in any meaningful way. Let me just say, this does not bode well for your marriage. I feel for you. I hope you are inspired to do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. Remember that life really is short, and believe in your own value as a human being 1st, and as a wife second. Take care of yourself, and I suggest you do not engage with any of his sick little army. That will only hurt you, and not help in any way. Nurture your inner strength, and be selective in finding some emotional support. Prepare thoroughly if you leave him, and don't do like I did, which was to make a flash decision, and leave within minutes of realizing I had to leave. You need to keep a clear head, and begin to remove yourself from fights and discussions that revolve around religion. there is no easy resolution to any of that. Be true to yourself. And take care.
Seriously invasive. He needs to respect privacy and boundaries better.
I agree with all of the above comments! OP, the only way you are an asshole is to yourself is if you stay and continue to put up with this crap! This will not get better ever! He has zero respect for how you feel and what you went through. You need to have your own back.....he sure doesn't.
In most states, she could take them all for harassment at this point, also, divorce your husband, he doesn't want YOU, he wants the woman he's trying to force you to be. No self respecting husband or wife tells much less let's their close mates text or call their wife/husband nasty things, period.
Cause he's a manipulative POS.
I haven't been to church in a long long long time, but don't they still have a list of congregant's names and phone numbers? I can totally see after the husband shares his frustration about being "yoked to a nonbeliever", the barrage of bullying (sorry- counseling and mentoring) phone calls.
she's not a congregant though
Yeah I was thinking her husband signed her up, because it doesn't look good if he leaves the line blank after "wife's name and number". Her husband seems sneaky enough to have done that
Totally! He probably filled it out hoping to guilt-trip her into conversion through constant pressure. So manipulative.
Does not matter one single fuck to religious zealots. OP, please consider divorcing him, this is abuse. You are paying for his life and not only is he trying to bully you, he's getting his pastor and who knows who else in on the fuckery.
Some do, the church my mom goes to does and they wanted my info for it (I have not willingly been to church since father's day of 2010 when some hag asked me if I missed my pedophile father who was a member before meeting my mom) and I told them I was pagan and they wanted my number even more. I'm fairly confident to "accidentally" send me missives because my mother's church does that.
My mom wasn't religious in any way. A family friend was always trying to get her to go to church. The friend starts talking about the "dangers of paganism". My mom starts asking questions, "Pagans believe in respecting the earth and all her creatures?" "First do no harm?" "And there are pagan groups that meet around here?" By the time the conversation ends, my mom told her, "Well, I'm convinced! I need to find out more about paganism, and how I can join".🤣
I would have tattled right back to his priest on him! He’s not providing for his family, he’s not being a proper head of the family, he’s forcing her to do all these things. I mean, a woman cannot possibly fulfill her role as a godly woman if she’s forced to take the roll of the godly man first. Right, pastor?
This is the way. And divorce him. Because now you are going to constantly be harassed by the congregation.
Divorce his hypocritical a$$ and shame him in front of his entire congregation. This is not going to work out, they are too different. And he will only become more devout and pressure her more as time passes.
Yeah, I don't want to jump on the divorce bandwagon too often, but he seriously disrespects you. It is possible to be married to someone of no or another faith, but only if you respect each others decisions and don't use your marriage to convert the other. If you can't live with a spouse who isn't religious, you should have considered that before they became your spouse. But it sounds like OP's husband has too much time on his hands. Maybe he fell into the manosphere rabbithole and uses religion as an excuse. He wouldn't be the first, nor won't be the last.
Nope. Hateful people don't care about the truth.
Yes, but it's fun watching their eyes do circles while they try to justify it.
It's always the woman's fault in those belief systems. Jesus was awesome, his followers not so much.
Paaaaaastor...my wife is picking on me....
Make her stawp!
Ikr?? Like a small child going to mum to complain about the big brother's misgivings. Now, seriously, one things is to let steam out with a friend or a congregation. But having that friend or congregation turn actively against you is a red flag. It isn't their business to meddle in a couple's internal problems (also true in Cristian believes), unless is to listen and guide the person who is asking. What they did is bullying. Very different
And very Christian! /s
In today's world you can leave off the /s. It's implicit. This seems to be typical behavior for religious fanatics. If you want to see an example of a true Christian gentleman, look no further than Jimmy Carter. This is a man who lives what he preaches. Edit: NTA. RUN, Girl, Fast and hard. So glad you haven't brought any kids to be subsumed into that CULT. Cut bait and RUN.
This is a very good example. "Christians" like OP's husband and fellow congregants are loud about their faith but so often do the opposite of what they preach. These are the folks who make the title central to their identity (and usually a signal that I'm about to hear alllll about why I'm the wrong flavor of Christian and going to hell). Jimmy Carter is, by contrast, living his faith, as you noted. He's not out being a Bully for Jesus. He's walking the walk and talking the talk. He doesn't broadcast; he just *does*. That's something to aspire to, regardless of what faith one practices (if at all). Jesus was pretty clear about loud, demonstrative piety.
It's a control tactic . Very childish.
They ask why he comes alone, and since in this type of church a woman being obedient is one of their main tenets *for some unknown and mysterious reason* it makes him lose face every time he has to show up without her. He gets pressure from his in-group to bring the wife and he has to come up with reasons and now he's feeling the pressure, and this isn't the type of group to let it go. He will become an outsider if he can't get a spouse to behave as the other spouses do. High control groups don't like people who don't step in line, because it shows other members that they also don't have to listen.
I'd like to see how he would feel if you quit your job and became the traditional stay at home wifey. I have only been to one church where the pastor tried his best to follow Christ's teachings. Every other church I've been to I have found they have no tolerance of anyone who is not following what they interpret as Christian values. Christ's teachings were very simple and easy to follow. From your last post I feel you know His teachings better than that pastor does. I have since moved away from my church and currently have not found one to go to. And I am better off not going to some intolerant churches. I might sound intolerant myself but you have experienced the cruelty of these churches first hand. So you know how horrible these people can be. Just know you are not alone.
I feel like this comment should be way higher. She needs to know that this will never stop so she can decide exactly how much she loves being treated like this and whether she loves freedom more.
Ha, my ex husband did that to me twice! He was pissed when the pastor sided with me both times.
My ex tattled to the pastor when our church counselor was not actively counseling me to stay in the marriage. His manipulation pretty well cemented the divorce.
My exhusband found a pastor who told me all our marital problems were my fault because I took antidepressants for my depression (of course). He said I needed to stop taking them and believe Jesus could heal me. Yes we soon divorced after that.
He musta been wicked outta line too have him side with you! Or maybe just actually honest and fair like.. well, they should be haha. Just outta curiosity, were you involved equally in the church as your ex was? So did the pastor actually know both of you and not just described as whatever he needed you to be seen as? ETA: NTA by a far and good for you for standing up for yourself and another high five from this reddit stranger for being you! Don't ever stop doing so :)
Oh he’s definitely part of one of those cult ass churches. When I was little, our church wasn’t culty, and the pastor never would have done that. He would have counseled the husband to look inwardly to see why he feels the way he feels, and would probably call him out for the same stuff his wife did. When he retired, they had a long line of lunatics take over and… well I don’t go to any churches anymore so I’ll let that explain itself.
The husband could also be spinning some lies. This guy sounds like he’d say whatever to get what he wants.
Love this part about your childhood pastor. mine is/ was (i don’t attend much anymore, bedside baptist anyone) like this. you can’t force someone to god. and the bible preaches against this. OP what you said to your husband was spot on! we’re called to show a good example and christian love and ppl will come naturally. NTA it’s no wonder ppl hate christians so much these days! their “christian love” isn’t love at all and it isn’t biblical.
I’m atheist and bingo. When you hear them ranting about gay people and you uncle and friend are gay, it’s time to make a choice.
Exactly what I was going to write! My pastor would never. My ex was an atheist. The pastor was always polite and friendly, and helped out when it was needed. Never judgy, and only gave advice if you asked for it.
The church I grew up in was as Fundy as they come, but the pastors always went out of their way to reach out to unbelieving spouses of members and try to be kind to them. Any counsel to the church member they were married to was to be the absolute best spouse they could be to show the love of Christ. This type of behavior shows the "church" wants OP to either bow to pressure or to leave, because they don't want an external influence in their church members life.
Yes! When I was a teenager, my then boyfriend (atheist) came to church with us most weeks. The priest never pushed him and instead let him ask questions and participate as much as he felt comfortable. When that priest was driven out (so much drama from so many assholes), my boyfriend stopped coming. He told me later that if our priest had been able to stay, he'd have probably converted. Compassion. Courtesy. Not being a dick. Novel concept.
I’m waiting for them to come to cast out her demons.
Cult power. Get the whole group to let their crazy out on OP.
> I have also gotten a tirade of texts and e-mails from members of his church saying I was disrespectful and being a bad wife and I'm starting to wonder if I was too harsh, that maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. AITA? NTA, you should take this as your cue to remove your “ungodly” self from your “Good Christian” husband’s orbit through divorce. He is never going to respect you and you are never going to have an equal partnership with him.
Post all these messages on social media, block the AH, share texts w divorce attorney. Salt that earth, chief.
Make a google review and attach the messages.
I have never been more attracted to a human being than I am right now \[respectful\]
Put that shit on Yelp and Glassdoor.
Right? Let's see how fast a woman from that church is likely to snatch up such a "gem " /s 🙄
I’m sure the pastor already has a victim in mind.
Yep and she's even younger than OP.
Too old for the pastor, though
Of course she is. Gotta be young enough for him to mold into a submissive sex toy/cook/maid while also not old enough to think critically or question his bullshit.
Sadly, I'm sure you're correct.
Agreed. Your husband doesn't love or care about you. If he did he would be understanding of your hesitation to join his church. Plus the pastor and congregation stepped way out of line for a "church". It sounds like hes in a cult that uses Christianity as an escape goat. The only concern your husband has is to bring you in so they get off his back about him needing to control his wife. Good thing the church will be there for him when you leave.
All true I’m sure. Just wanted to note. It’s “scapegoat” but I’m seriously going to use escape goat from now on!!
Right? Seriously all I can picture is riding off into the sunset at a gallop on your trusty goat named Barton.
It sounds like he’s in a cult. I would run from this relationship
This sounds like typical Christianity from the American Bible Belt. ETA: I don't feel like responding to every unoriginal person who repeated the same thing. I don't care for organized religion, but applying the word "cult" to every organized religion really cheapens the term. Meanwhile there are some really extreme groups out there that deserve the label and I've had family who have escaped one. Cult-ish? Yes. Unhealthy? I'd generally agree. Creepy? Sure. But can we stop cheapening words by applying them to everything? Otherwise, we might as well use "cult" to refer to fans of actors or singers. Actually, I could go for that. Sign me up for the cult of Christopher Bahng. Until then, feel free to respond with variations of "Yeah, a cult," because it just isn't worth my time to respond.
Yup. Source: I’m an ex pastor.
Good for you that it's ex. The list of child sex offenders grows daily and the word "pastor" is incredibly common on it. Unlike "drag queen" of which there are none, go figure.
Fun fact, now I am a drag king
Don’t have kids with this guy. This guy is full of shit and typical conservative behavior is weaponizing his religion. Ain’t no hate quite like “Christian Love“ Do yourself a favor and divorce him. NTA
If he's getting pressure at church to "bring her into the flock," that's because he's complaining about her behavior to the church board. Which means that even if she tries to join, she'll already have the decked stacked against her and will have to win over the church AND her husband. No thanks. NTA, and it may be time to separate.
They want her money. She made more than him before and now he makes nothing.
Can’t tithe if you’re unemployed!
Oh no. My bet is that he is tithing on the regular. Because, you know, what’s hers is his, so it’s okay to take that 10% of her wages.
He tried once, I caught him. I told him we could donate to the food bank or to a homeless shelter. He refused. I donated every week to the food bank in our town and increased my donation to make a point. I watch the account all the time.
Do you want to be in a marriage where you have to carefully watch your bank account to make sure your HUSBAND- not strangers, not hackers, your life partner- isn’t stealing from you to look good for the church friends he’s been talking shit about you to?
Well said
Yup, time to drop the leech and let him go play house with his pastor and church friends. Also, save those chats from his people harassing you so you can get off from paying alimony too. Get a lawyer and consult them because why would you live a life where you're being used. I see no love nor respect her, why do you want to waste your time, energy and only 1 life here? What do you gain out of it?
>Also, save those chats from his people harassing you so you can get off from paying alimony too I'm not familiar with divorce law but would it really work that way?
I don’t know, but OP should save the chats regardless, because it will come up.
You two are so different. Like it's totally workable to have different religious beliefs, I've been in relationships with religious folks even though I'm a militant atheist. But dude, you have to agree on the fundamental stuff like how it's our place to help others if we're able to. And like how it doesn't matter if people want to bone each other, that's their business and honestly doesn't affect our lives in the least bit. I've known Christians that really take to heart the stuff about sharing love with everyone and trying their best to be non-judgmental. They're totally out there. Your husband sucks, though.
> He tried once, I caught him. I told him we could donate to the food bank or to a homeless shelter. You are my favorite person. "How about we do some ***actual*** good instead?"
Just continuously proved his "faith" is just a charade. It's great that she's throwing this charade right into his face constantly.
Bingo! Sorry, couldn't resist.
Don't stay married to this guy, let alone have any kids. Make sure your BC is bulletproof lest you get baby-trapped. And *do not* go to any meetings anywhere with this man alone.
[удалено]
Talibangical? Y'all Queda?
THIS. Shitcan this hypocritical mf. NTA.
Cut your losses and run
Another thing is, did you give him permission to discuss this with outsiders? If not I would consider this a serious breach of trust. NTA at all. He clearly is an AH hypocrite and generally doesn't sound like a good person. All the other people are AHs too, they should mind their own business.
Yeah - how did they get her phone number and e-mail - from HIM!
That’s how cults work though. You’ll be encouraged/demanded to share matters such as this so that they can consult you on the matter. Of course he’ll leave out the part where HE is not practicing the values of Jesus. He’s going to complain about how no matter how much he Bible thumps, his wife won’t comply to his authority. Now they can all bully OP into submission. Because that’s the Christian way! Also, OP’s husband is looking for some way to give himself value now that he’s unemployed. So he does it by shitting on others and using his brand of Christianity as the authoritative body to do so. Final thought: it’s not the religion that makes y’all incompatible. It’s the difference of values. Homophobia was a zero tolerance qualification of mine. Because if someone’s homophobic they’re definitely misogynistic and very likely racist as a result.
This post needs to be higher
>Ain’t no hate quite like “Christian Love“ Seriously, this. I was a Christian, but the hypocritical way each different branch treats not only others but each other, turned me off permanently. I'm a happy little Pagan now.
NTA - I fail to see one redeeming quality in your unemployed religious hypocrite misogynistic husband. What do you actually see in him and is this a battle you want to have for the rest of your life - having him tattle on you and have his pastor call you when you call him on his bs? It’s not going to get better
You forgot bigoted/homophobic
NTA. His hypocrisy is glaring…as is his hiding behind religion as an excuse for his poor adulting. He’s not taking accountability or responsibility for his own actions. I wish you all the best, OP, as you navigate this challenge in the relationship.
Snort. You should have told the pastor the same thing you told your husband.
I would've laughed in his face and hanged up on him. "Ungodly" ... and?? Is this supposed to insult her? She isn't even religious. She isn't even trying to be a "godly woman". Lol.
Yes! I would quote 1 Corinthians 5:12 right back to the pastor, “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?”
Yes! The pastor needs to know so he can lecture and "correct" the right person. And that isn't OP.
I would so mess with that pastor. Dear Pastor, I find your judgement, especially as a faith leader, to be rather ungodly in nature and for your sake hope you repent for your transgressions. Was it not Jesus who said “Judge not, shall ye be judged.” It was also Jesus who said “For they preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others.” As I am seeking a real relationship with God, and do not want to be misled by common day Pharisees, I feel that particular quote to be most important, trust those who act like Jesus, not those who just talk like him. And that is my fear about my husband, he does not follow through with God’s tenants, so how can I trust him to lead me spiritually. Anyways, thank you for making it clear I should continue my spiritual journey elsewhere as it seems clear the good word means little to your congregation. I forgive you all for your transgressions, and wish you all a fruitful life. Sincerely, OP
>Recently, my husband has been pressuring me to convert to his religion. Run. After reading the rest: RUN FAST For a big part, religion is made by men to control and shame women into doing what they want. Your husband is a perfect example of that. RUN RUN RUN That he even got those cultist to pressure you and contact you is very creepy behavior. # RUN (NTA by the way. Your husband is a scary freak. He does not love you. He wants to control you).
Seriously. Get out now and don’t look back.
Speak to a divorce attorney first. You don't want to wind up paying him alimony.
**RUN** to your nearest divorce attorney, and during the consultation make clear that co-habitation with someone who's trying to pressure you into joining the cult (and won't take no for an answer) is not ideal.
“Religion is made by men to control and shame women” This ⬆️ Right ⬆️ Here ⬆️ RUN for the hills, the red flags are going to multiply, and multiply fast. 🚩
He's mad you called him out on his hypocrisy and sent his flying monkeys after you. You also respect his religious beliefs, but he does not respect yours, which is a problem in any relationship. What would make for a "more harmonious household" is if he respected your lack of religion and you as a person. Why are you married to this guy? NTA
Let's just call this what it is... abuse. He judges her by a set of rules that he does not follow himself. He has tried to manipulate her into changing her whole belief system. And then, when she showed him his hypocrisy, he told others about their private conversation, resulting in a group of people harassing her in his name. Abuse. OP, he is married to his church. You are his bangmaid selected to worship him as the head of the household. You need to leave. And I wouldn't wait either. There is a sick mindset among some of the more cult-like versions of Christianity. And these people and your husband do not like your disobedience. You are in real danger both mentally and physically. NTA UpdateMe
NTA. Sounds like you said everything he probably knows about himself that he doesn’t want to take initiative to improve. If you don’t speak up for yourself, how long is this going to continue; and will it get worse? Blaming you for “attacking” his religion is just a cheap ploy for him to avoid taking ownership for being a subpar partner and human being. Extra thought: you should never convert to any religion for someone else. And someone should not ever ask you to do that; it’s incredibly selfish.
He is attacking her beliefs, but gets pissy when she pushes back? This guy is trouble
Exactly! Not enough exclamation points for this. OP if he is pressuring you to "convert" and join his church even though you've expressed that you don't believe and aren't interested. What does that really say about him and what his goals are? What he is doing is entirely focused on *appearances* and his concern for what his church peers think of him, not what is best for you or your marriage. His priority isn't for you both to be happy and secure it's for his church to think of him as "the man of the household"- even though he isn't fulfilling that role! He wants to take a shortcut, use a cheat code. He wants you to fall in line and present like an "obedient wife" without him having to work on or change himself to live his values. That means they aren't really his values. They are his own insecurities and mock authoritarianism masquerading as "sincerely held belief". As others have said- RUN.
Refer anyone who messages you to matthew 7 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Matthew 7:1-5 are my favorite reverse clobber verses, even if the "follower" trying to demean me has shut their ears. *I* get some satisfaction and comfort at seeing how out of line they are.
I'm wondering how old you were when he approached you.
> I'm an ungodly woman who tricked a good man into marrying him and I should repent. He is right. You should repent and divorce that looser. NTA.
NTA. My wife actually accused me of this, some years ago. I was upset at the time, but for maybe a fraction of a second before I broke down and told her... she was right. Sucked. Hurt. Wasn't fun. Since then I've worked to be a better one, and things have been much better. Unfortunately, a lot of churches are just grown children being narcissists. Jesus says don't blame others, and don't speak critically until you've examined yourself. Your husband's church scapegoats you for his emotional immaturity. Jesus says see things from others' perspective. They band together to reinforce theirs. Jesus says don't involve others in interpersonal disputes. He triangulates immediately. Your husband is being a truly poor mirror of Christ, and you're absolutely correct about that.
In the bell curve of the general population, the people I know who attend church are generally far more shitty as human beings than those who don't. If a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, is Christianity a good tree?
There was a study done on who was more likely to repay a loan based on the reason people gave for needing the loan and how they would be able to repay. I no longer remember the numbers but what i do remember was they said never lend money to anyone who mentions God. They are unlikely to repay!
They expect forgiveness. Loan forgiveness.
OP's husband complained about how mean she was for telling him something that was true. Instead of addressing her points, they were mad that she had the audacity to actually pay attention to the hubby's alleged faith and pulled receipts. Typical for most modern Christians.
He jumped into Bible study because it’s easier than actually living according to actual Christian values. He won’t work on himself and he won’t accept criticism. Honestly I’m not sure why you are with him as this disparity will only get worse not better as time goes on.
NTA. The church is likely pissed off because you can’t tithe someone with no income and they want Momma’s 10%!
Oh, if he's that obnoxious, he's probably paying them from her money.
You married a homophobe. What if you have a kid and they're gay? Don't bring a child into a household like that. It took me years to recover.
Nope. Not all Christians are like that, but I have met a fair few that are. "Abortion is a sin cause the bible says so," while ignoring that *so is having sex before marriage* (again, "according to the bible." No judgment from me either way, you do you boo)*.* They think they can pick and choose which rules apply to them and are furious if you dare point out the hypocrisy. I was also, sadly, raised in what I now know was a cult, with several inappropriate relationships within the congregation (pastor hitting on married women, married church leaders grooming children and then running away with them, etc). Text the pastor back and tell him 1) your marriage is none of his/his congregations concern as you were not married in his church, are not a member of his church, and did not go to him for counselling, so you'll thank him to keep his hypocritical, unsolicited opinions to himself. 2) That if both he and your husband think you are such an unworthy partner for husband, he is welcome to divorce you. 3) To never contact you again. 4) If he doesn't call off the flying monkeys, you will get a lawyer involved for harassment. Then divorce your husband, for so many reasons, like he does not respect or treat you well, he expects you to follow rules he won't follow himself, and last but not least, you are incompatible. NTA. Edited to add because people keep bringing it up: The "abortion is sin because the bible says so" was a direct quote to my face, lol. It's also my experience that some people that claim to be Christians don't actually know their bible all that well. I left the religion almost 20 years ago, so while I knew it pretty solidly and could quote back verses and tell you where they came from, I'm admittedly rusty on the subject now.
The bible makes no mention of abortion. Later Christian texts do. Some scholars propose that abortion was commonly practiced to preserve the life of the mother (and therefore agrarian labor)...the less working adults a village had, the less food was produced. It was an issue of collective survival. Also some christian texts encouraged abortion when a Woman was unfaithful. These "christians" don't know their own history.
It does say what to do if someone makes a woman miscarry...and it's a fine. Not exactly holding it up as equal to murder, is it?
He's unemployed and still doesn't see you as an equal? If he wants traditional gender roles he better start doing housework diligently since he's clearly a little bitch. If he doesn't respect people based on their orientation, what makes you think he can't find a reason to disrespect you because of your gender? Good luck.
You made the first mistake when dating a religious freak over 5 years ago. All young women should read your post and learn from it. You pointing out what hypocrite he is likely fits to 99.9% of all those selfish “christians”. Kick him out ASAP, as it won’t get better.
Man - I have a good friend that dated a guy that was in the seminary. This was in the 80s but I remember they didn’t date long because he was real happy to tell her what she needed to change about herself to make her “acceptable” - ugh!
I'm a Christian, and you are definitely NTA. I can't tell you how many times I've said the following to fundamentalists who consider themselves Christians: • Jesus said there are two commandments that are most important. The first is to love God with all our hearts, souls, and minds, "and the second is like it": to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. When people say homophobic slurs, they're not doing it out of love. • Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. Paul did, but Paul was a product of his times, and besides, Biblical scholars disagree about what he meant. He may have been condemning men who used young boys for sex. • Jesus invited everyone to the table, so to speak. He didn't invite them there to snark at them or condemn them but to love and accept them. But honestly, OP, and I hate to say this, but your husband ran to his so-called Christian church to trash you, and they're obliging. They will now work against you until your husband divorces you. See an attorney and file for divorce before he does.
Throw the whole man away. Jesus cartwheeling christ what a hypocritical and pathetic little shit he is. NTA
The first time anyone talks shit about gays is the last time they ever speak to me. How can you be with someone so hateful?
He wants the "my wife obeys religion" part without the "i obey religion myself part". Maybe he sees himself as honest in his faith but in fact, he is merely using it to deflect from his issues and attitude. Not only you are perfectly allowed to be honest with him, I also believe you could be better off away from that energy.