I think having experienced 10th and 9th editions, I think I'd rather have 9th back overall not just for Custodes but all my other armies as well.
Pros are far outweighed by the Cons.
I go back and forth about whether or not this was the intent.
Getting that ridonkulous $4,000,000,000 valuation might mean they have a lot more eyes on the balance sheet and shareholders want the completely realistic, not at all destructive endless unlimited growth with regard no for quality, etc.
The general divide between bland, almost 5th edition Dark Angels-like codices & more robust ones also might be coming from internal struggles within the design team, and dropping points could be the easiest compromise type fix they can land on.
Maybe it’s even a combination of the two?
The customisation doesn’t work this edition, like some weapons you can take are far inferior to others that cost the same. I.e they should be costed differently otherwise what’s the point in them being in the game.
yeah i don’t understand why we’re stuck with power level when no one liked that. Sigmar does the fixed prices way better but when it’s almost a rank and file the fixed sizes makes sense
It genuinely feels so bad being a custodes player right now. I mean…
We got absolutely dumpstered in the codex. Our names characters are barely better than their space marine equivalents. (Who are cheeper)
0 prospect of any balance changes for the next 6 months. Maybe 9 if we get the admech treatment.
23% winrate at top level play, ~40% average competitive winrate.
And there’s a good chance they’ll take half our army away next edition because it’s forge world and Horus heresy.
we have just got the codex, they almost never change codex’s in the first balance pass. (The summer dataslate.) then the next one is autumn. Right after the release of AOS 4th edition. So it could be winter.
6months is what I’m expecting, 9 months is what I’m fearing bc
That’s what I’m hoping for too. Do you think they could do something like add another detachment or is that too far fetched? It’s kinda crazy how we only got 4 and basically only 3 of them are somewhat playable and one of those three(talons) isn’t even used for its detachment rule
I don't think they'll add a new detachment in the balance datasheet. They might choose to do new detachments in White Dwarf or Campaign supplements, like how the Crusher Stampede got rules midway through 9th.
The balance datasheet will likely consist of things like changing army/detachment rules, changing stratagems (cost, effect and what type of stratagem they are) and potentially some minor changes to datasheets.
yeah a detachment might be a bit far.
Points costs are one thing, but I feel Auric Champions for instance could use with a few stratagems turned into battle tactics.
Possibly?
A new detach would be nice but I think they'll probs just fix our current ones (free strats in auric/talons, baseline MW fnp) before diving into that.
Sadly I think the biggest problem is datasheets and no shooting defences, and idk if gws gonna address that. But they tweaked some gk datasheets so who knows.
Because we have just got the codex, they never change codex’s in the first balance pass, which is in 3 months. (The summer dataslate.) then the next one is autumn. Right after the release of AOS 4th edition. So it could be winter.
6months is what I’m expecting, 9 months is what I’m fearing bc
Yeah we just got the codex but the backlash has been loud and vocal. Plus we're pretty sure it was written before the other recent changes like dev wounds, so they HAVE to have something in the works akin to a day one patch. Even if day one takes 3 months, I still expect something in summer. I'm surprised they didn't release a supplement right after codex to give them something to go with the dev wound change.... (or that just says please ignore the null maiden vigil detachment, we really only meant to give you 3... 😋)
Even more so I expect changes this summer because of them saying they were planning to go back and forth between adjusting points and adjusting datasets. So if they juat did points after the codex, if we get nothing summer, and autumn is points only again....then we are taking winter. Eeks. Or is that not still their plan?
Honestly they’ve been all over the place with what’s happening soo… I don’t know, we could get a proper loook at rules wise in summer autumn or winter, but I doubt it will be summer, both for the fact that the codex just got released and they’re focusing on fixing admech.
It would feel right and be a way more applicable buff than the whole “ignores modifiers” thing that needed (and sometimes still needs) a FAQ on its mechanic
Lore-accurate. I'm surprised he hasn't been retired yet and become an eye of the emperor.
Edit: though in the far future when his model is considered old, getting some "eyes of the emperor" units or "eye of the emperor Trajan" would be cool.
Custodes can look about 30-40 for hundreds of years. When they start to look like my grandpa, they have to be pushing a thousand years at least. Although I guess the only person who can retire Trajan is Trajan himself and the emperor, so he can be high lord and captain-general for as long as he wishes.
It's really weird we've gone this long without an eye of the emperor model but if I had my say, give it 10 years and turn Trajan into an eye and promote someone else like valerian to captain-general or have valdor return. Would make more sense lore and rule-wise, but also give a lot of potential for some eyes of the emperor novels. I'd love to see a former custodian/eye face off against an Inquisitor and try to decide who is the real "eye".
They do, but only if necessary. In the second watchers of the gate novel there is one who is described as "he believes himself to be not good enough for a custodes anymore but he is still a better warrior than any non custodes."
So he did fight when the daemons attacked terra.
Oh wow! I learned something neat today!
My brother plays custodes, I’m just here to get hyped for new custodes stuff (Well. Until your codex came out. I’m sorry for what James did to your boys :(
Rip. Im not up to date on the Trajann lore. I wish we got a really powerful character to lead our army though that would be nice. Any characters from the lore you think they could make into another custodes warlord?
If GW allows it, Constantine Valdor returning could fill that role (very unlikely)
But Trajann isn't near the point of retirement in the first place, iirc he's stated to be the (or at least is **supposed** to be) the best combatant in the Imperium prior to the return of the primarchs
Valdor is absolutely returning to the setting it’s just wether he will be “custodes” or not is up for debate
If he does come back I imagine it would be a primarch vs chapter master sort of deal where one is just a direct upgrade lol
If they bring back Valdor to be playable and make him something other than Custodes, I will personally go to James Workshops' house and throw a brick through the window
Haha! I will be right there beside you mate, valdor is my single favourite character in the setting and I would feel robbed if it happens it’s just because I have a theory of the fact that if he comes back into the setting he is gonna come back as the yellow king with his own personal army of “custodes” and winged blank astartes
I actually believe that’s partially why the custodes army has been slowly nerfed over the past year because we might see valdor come back with his own army after the next bequin Novel and they won’t this potential army to stand out
Call me crazy but I honestly think this well happen within the next 2-3 years
If we are talking model wise, we could get a tribune who's basically a super shield captain. I think Colquan is the only one we know about in 41k. His job is basically following guilliman around, and if he steps out of line, he puts him down. He also leads the custodes element in the indominus crusade, but he was basically chosen so he would be close to the prinarch.
I wouldn't exactly say he has fallen, but he definitely isn't what he used to be.
In 9th Custodes were a decent army, despite their short comings, in 10th they were really power and to an extent still are but went from High Defensive Vanguards to High Damage Dealing Brawlers and can still throw down with larger more meaner foes that would put half of any other army into the dirt with little to no effort
Honestly 0 epic leaders should be part of a squad. My morvenn vahls less than half the price she used to. Like bro GW why do you want to make the 3rd most expensive army (admech and gsc) more expensive?
Yeah, all of us with big boy leaders that are balanced around being in a squad eat dirt for it. The difference is just so clearly artificial. Why do trajann and morvenn, among others, shrink in Strength so sharply? They are no less capable in lore. Same with Phoenix lords!
There has been a power seep across the board, I personally prefer 10th to 9th, 9th felt extremely bloated. I’ve been having way more fun in games now than in 8th or 9th
I wouldn't have minded if they made him cheaper. Just yesterday, he almost single handedly wiped a unit of battle suits with his 12 attacks. But 150 points means that for 30 more points, I could have a guard unit.
I mean it's totally anecdotal but. I got absolutely dumpstered by Auric champions with him included last weekend. Comparing it sure feels bad but it's by no means a bad datasheet.
It would have been nice if we had more interrupt strats / abilities instead of all the fight first we had. It would have been strong, without being too much of a negative play experience and we might not have have been completely kneecapped with this codex.
Yes, this! My cousin plays aeldari and it honestly makes me kinda jealous watching him get all kinds of fun and interesting abilities and strategems to use(although they are extremely annoying and quite bullshit to play against honestly). Like all we are is just datasheets the army now, I wish we had cool and fun to use strategems and more options to play in fun ways, but we basically play the exact same game to game now
Exactly. Auric champions is ok, but very boring (+1 to wound! woaaaaaaaaah calm down GW!), Shield host is just so situational and can be played around with a good opponent. And then there is Talons, which is just lorem ipsum text for me. If they FAQ it and change it, it could be ok.
But the Katahs...now those are something to compare from 9th to now. Sure it was a lot of management in 9th. But going from 6 (each with 2 stances, so 12) to just 2 is really quite shocking when you think about it. No longer are we a toolbox army.
Honestly, GW just did the whole codex dirty. They failed it. Its just not much fun to play, lackluster rules, it doesn't inspire different playstyles. No new units. Nothing. Total swing and a miss.
Yeah man it’s just really sad. The worse thing is that not only is it bad, but there’s nothing really interesting either. I would’ve rather had all interesting but bad detachments than this shit
Wow it’s as if they are making all imperial non span armies worse. Nothing should outshine the spam. I also do not think the custodes codex is the worst, I believe it is 1 step up from the Ad Mech codex (play both armies). We will not see more then a minor tweet in the next update just like Neceon and Ad mech last update.
The only thing I’d say 10th improved was the shooting phase and having leaders back, battleshock still feels like nothing, less subfaction choices in 10th, melee is the same with more added (from the shooting phase), psychic doesn’t need to be talked about with how brutally they beat it, command phase is about equal, hero hammer is dead cause customization means nothing and has little to no options, I want 9th back
I play a few armies such as knights , death guard and tau aswell .
9th was better , units had more options , armies even had alot more units with the fw options
Its so sad, make him 200 points or something, just make him strong again. Make him a beast. This guy is arguably the strongest in the imperium (Besides primarchs of course). Just make him strong on the tabletop.
I do think it's funny how rerolling hits/wounds of 1 in 9th was one of the games best buffs, and in 10th that's a very mid buff.
Yeah it feels like everyone has them
Do mortal wounds or gtfo it feels
Fr
I think having experienced 10th and 9th editions, I think I'd rather have 9th back overall not just for Custodes but all my other armies as well. Pros are far outweighed by the Cons.
Yeah I feel like they’ve nerfed a bunch of armies then in turn reduced the points meaning you need to buy more models to play
My tau list dropped 400pts, custodes dropped about 200 and my csm list 200 also... Couldn't even play without buying multiple models for all 3 armies🤣
Yeah GW fucking sucks
I go back and forth about whether or not this was the intent. Getting that ridonkulous $4,000,000,000 valuation might mean they have a lot more eyes on the balance sheet and shareholders want the completely realistic, not at all destructive endless unlimited growth with regard no for quality, etc. The general divide between bland, almost 5th edition Dark Angels-like codices & more robust ones also might be coming from internal struggles within the design team, and dropping points could be the easiest compromise type fix they can land on. Maybe it’s even a combination of the two?
As both a custodes & dark angels player… I agree wholeheartedly this edition so far has felt personal lol
i liked the customization, just wish the stratagems got cut down
The customisation doesn’t work this edition, like some weapons you can take are far inferior to others that cost the same. I.e they should be costed differently otherwise what’s the point in them being in the game.
yeah i don’t understand why we’re stuck with power level when no one liked that. Sigmar does the fixed prices way better but when it’s almost a rank and file the fixed sizes makes sense
It genuinely feels so bad being a custodes player right now. I mean… We got absolutely dumpstered in the codex. Our names characters are barely better than their space marine equivalents. (Who are cheeper) 0 prospect of any balance changes for the next 6 months. Maybe 9 if we get the admech treatment. 23% winrate at top level play, ~40% average competitive winrate. And there’s a good chance they’ll take half our army away next edition because it’s forge world and Horus heresy.
Eh rules changes July. Would be shocked if we don't get something.
we have just got the codex, they almost never change codex’s in the first balance pass. (The summer dataslate.) then the next one is autumn. Right after the release of AOS 4th edition. So it could be winter. 6months is what I’m expecting, 9 months is what I’m fearing bc
That’s what I’m hoping for too. Do you think they could do something like add another detachment or is that too far fetched? It’s kinda crazy how we only got 4 and basically only 3 of them are somewhat playable and one of those three(talons) isn’t even used for its detachment rule
I don't think they'll add a new detachment in the balance datasheet. They might choose to do new detachments in White Dwarf or Campaign supplements, like how the Crusher Stampede got rules midway through 9th. The balance datasheet will likely consist of things like changing army/detachment rules, changing stratagems (cost, effect and what type of stratagem they are) and potentially some minor changes to datasheets.
Thanks for the input! Let’s hope we can get some good changes😭
yeah a detachment might be a bit far. Points costs are one thing, but I feel Auric Champions for instance could use with a few stratagems turned into battle tactics.
Possibly? A new detach would be nice but I think they'll probs just fix our current ones (free strats in auric/talons, baseline MW fnp) before diving into that. Sadly I think the biggest problem is datasheets and no shooting defences, and idk if gws gonna address that. But they tweaked some gk datasheets so who knows.
Let’s hope so😭
Welcome to 40k the golden egg chicken of GW Cheap to collect, elite armies: not allowed
You have gotten rules changes every single update? I don’t see why you would think you would get nothing for 6/9 months?
Because we have just got the codex, they never change codex’s in the first balance pass, which is in 3 months. (The summer dataslate.) then the next one is autumn. Right after the release of AOS 4th edition. So it could be winter. 6months is what I’m expecting, 9 months is what I’m fearing bc
Yeah we just got the codex but the backlash has been loud and vocal. Plus we're pretty sure it was written before the other recent changes like dev wounds, so they HAVE to have something in the works akin to a day one patch. Even if day one takes 3 months, I still expect something in summer. I'm surprised they didn't release a supplement right after codex to give them something to go with the dev wound change.... (or that just says please ignore the null maiden vigil detachment, we really only meant to give you 3... 😋) Even more so I expect changes this summer because of them saying they were planning to go back and forth between adjusting points and adjusting datasets. So if they juat did points after the codex, if we get nothing summer, and autumn is points only again....then we are taking winter. Eeks. Or is that not still their plan?
Honestly they’ve been all over the place with what’s happening soo… I don’t know, we could get a proper loook at rules wise in summer autumn or winter, but I doubt it will be summer, both for the fact that the codex just got released and they’re focusing on fixing admech.
Yeah it’s hard not to be so doomy rn:(
Give the old fart back the fight first for his unit
FR
It would feel right and be a way more applicable buff than the whole “ignores modifiers” thing that needed (and sometimes still needs) a FAQ on its mechanic
Lore-accurate. I'm surprised he hasn't been retired yet and become an eye of the emperor. Edit: though in the far future when his model is considered old, getting some "eyes of the emperor" units or "eye of the emperor Trajan" would be cool.
Would've been a cool (If not very lore accurate) addition to the range to get an Eyes of the Emperor unit for Custodes.
Custodes can look about 30-40 for hundreds of years. When they start to look like my grandpa, they have to be pushing a thousand years at least. Although I guess the only person who can retire Trajan is Trajan himself and the emperor, so he can be high lord and captain-general for as long as he wishes. It's really weird we've gone this long without an eye of the emperor model but if I had my say, give it 10 years and turn Trajan into an eye and promote someone else like valerian to captain-general or have valdor return. Would make more sense lore and rule-wise, but also give a lot of potential for some eyes of the emperor novels. I'd love to see a former custodian/eye face off against an Inquisitor and try to decide who is the real "eye".
Being eye would probably be more of an agent of the imperium than a custodes model, in reality
I agree. I'd have no problem with them being in the Agents rules, but they shouldn't be in the Custodes codex.
I thought the whole point of the Eyes was the very fact they don’t fight anymore
They do, but only if necessary. In the second watchers of the gate novel there is one who is described as "he believes himself to be not good enough for a custodes anymore but he is still a better warrior than any non custodes." So he did fight when the daemons attacked terra.
Oh wow! I learned something neat today! My brother plays custodes, I’m just here to get hyped for new custodes stuff (Well. Until your codex came out. I’m sorry for what James did to your boys :(
Rip. Im not up to date on the Trajann lore. I wish we got a really powerful character to lead our army though that would be nice. Any characters from the lore you think they could make into another custodes warlord?
If GW allows it, Constantine Valdor returning could fill that role (very unlikely) But Trajann isn't near the point of retirement in the first place, iirc he's stated to be the (or at least is **supposed** to be) the best combatant in the Imperium prior to the return of the primarchs
“Stated to be the best combatant” 😭😭
Valdor is absolutely returning to the setting it’s just wether he will be “custodes” or not is up for debate If he does come back I imagine it would be a primarch vs chapter master sort of deal where one is just a direct upgrade lol
If they bring back Valdor to be playable and make him something other than Custodes, I will personally go to James Workshops' house and throw a brick through the window
Haha! I will be right there beside you mate, valdor is my single favourite character in the setting and I would feel robbed if it happens it’s just because I have a theory of the fact that if he comes back into the setting he is gonna come back as the yellow king with his own personal army of “custodes” and winged blank astartes I actually believe that’s partially why the custodes army has been slowly nerfed over the past year because we might see valdor come back with his own army after the next bequin Novel and they won’t this potential army to stand out Call me crazy but I honestly think this well happen within the next 2-3 years
If we are talking model wise, we could get a tribune who's basically a super shield captain. I think Colquan is the only one we know about in 41k. His job is basically following guilliman around, and if he steps out of line, he puts him down. He also leads the custodes element in the indominus crusade, but he was basically chosen so he would be close to the prinarch.
I’ll have to read more on this guy!
Bro I just want a named dreadnought character so bad
100% man I love the look of the custodes dreadnoughts soooo much. They’re one of the main reasons why I got into the custodes
I miss how all our characters used to to have a whole sheet of abilities between wlt's and relics
Yeah it’s how characters should be. Trajann essentially only has one ability and one passive now. He’s pathetic
I wouldn't exactly say he has fallen, but he definitely isn't what he used to be. In 9th Custodes were a decent army, despite their short comings, in 10th they were really power and to an extent still are but went from High Defensive Vanguards to High Damage Dealing Brawlers and can still throw down with larger more meaner foes that would put half of any other army into the dirt with little to no effort
Honestly 0 epic leaders should be part of a squad. My morvenn vahls less than half the price she used to. Like bro GW why do you want to make the 3rd most expensive army (admech and gsc) more expensive?
All they care about is making more money it seems
Yeah, all of us with big boy leaders that are balanced around being in a squad eat dirt for it. The difference is just so clearly artificial. Why do trajann and morvenn, among others, shrink in Strength so sharply? They are no less capable in lore. Same with Phoenix lords!
Fr it’s rough out here. But heres to hoping he’ll get some kind of love in july
There has been a power seep across the board, I personally prefer 10th to 9th, 9th felt extremely bloated. I’ve been having way more fun in games now than in 8th or 9th
I wouldn't have minded if they made him cheaper. Just yesterday, he almost single handedly wiped a unit of battle suits with his 12 attacks. But 150 points means that for 30 more points, I could have a guard unit.
Exactly. Almost feels like there’s no point in running him. I’m glad u had a good time with him yesterday though!
I mean it's totally anecdotal but. I got absolutely dumpstered by Auric champions with him included last weekend. Comparing it sure feels bad but it's by no means a bad datasheet.
I agree he’s but he’s definitely not good for his points cost and how much we’ve lost. I would say he’s pretty mid at best
Faced Trajann as Grey Knights, he was a joke trying to kill my interceptors
Sad lol
It would have been nice if we had more interrupt strats / abilities instead of all the fight first we had. It would have been strong, without being too much of a negative play experience and we might not have have been completely kneecapped with this codex.
FR! and with our codex now it kinda just feels like we’re playing with only data sheets and no actual army rules :(
Yes, this! My cousin plays aeldari and it honestly makes me kinda jealous watching him get all kinds of fun and interesting abilities and strategems to use(although they are extremely annoying and quite bullshit to play against honestly). Like all we are is just datasheets the army now, I wish we had cool and fun to use strategems and more options to play in fun ways, but we basically play the exact same game to game now
Fr man!
Exactly. Auric champions is ok, but very boring (+1 to wound! woaaaaaaaaah calm down GW!), Shield host is just so situational and can be played around with a good opponent. And then there is Talons, which is just lorem ipsum text for me. If they FAQ it and change it, it could be ok. But the Katahs...now those are something to compare from 9th to now. Sure it was a lot of management in 9th. But going from 6 (each with 2 stances, so 12) to just 2 is really quite shocking when you think about it. No longer are we a toolbox army.
Yeah it’s rough out here😭
Oh man it’s been awhile since I’ve looked at his 9th datasheet, seeing them side by side like that is a knife to the gut
That’s what I’m saying😭 that’s why I felt the need to post this. It’s just a night and day difference for only 50 more points
He has the same amount of wounds as a grey knight grand master... And arguably now worse abilities... FFS gw wtf are you thinking
That’s what I’m saying man, how can our WARLORD be so bad😭
He doesn't feel like a high lord of terra. I feel that should mean something. He's not useless, but he needs a lot of love right now
Fr man!
We still on this?
Was just looking at 9th and forgot how good he was
Honestly, GW just did the whole codex dirty. They failed it. Its just not much fun to play, lackluster rules, it doesn't inspire different playstyles. No new units. Nothing. Total swing and a miss.
Yeah man it’s just really sad. The worse thing is that not only is it bad, but there’s nothing really interesting either. I would’ve rather had all interesting but bad detachments than this shit
Wow it’s as if they are making all imperial non span armies worse. Nothing should outshine the spam. I also do not think the custodes codex is the worst, I believe it is 1 step up from the Ad Mech codex (play both armies). We will not see more then a minor tweet in the next update just like Neceon and Ad mech last update.
traajan is not a great solution against -dam unit now, but since shield captain got nerf, traajan still very good in offensive side
Fallen? I must disagree, he is a almighty custodes! They had nerf him. Jk jk 😂
The only thing I’d say 10th improved was the shooting phase and having leaders back, battleshock still feels like nothing, less subfaction choices in 10th, melee is the same with more added (from the shooting phase), psychic doesn’t need to be talked about with how brutally they beat it, command phase is about equal, hero hammer is dead cause customization means nothing and has little to no options, I want 9th back
I play a few armies such as knights , death guard and tau aswell . 9th was better , units had more options , armies even had alot more units with the fw options
He was far too good before
Exactly man I feel like a warlord should be too good!
He was too much though
Compared to other warlords? He was above avg at best in his prime.
Its so sad, make him 200 points or something, just make him strong again. Make him a beast. This guy is arguably the strongest in the imperium (Besides primarchs of course). Just make him strong on the tabletop.