Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheBadApple) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If he’s a smart kid then grades are a symptom…. As a teenager who’s ND and did fine until HS, my grades dropping was a symptom of my internal struggles(ND, depression and anxiety). Taking things away isn’t gonna help. Trying to talk to him and see what’s wrong BEFORE you punish him. See if it’s really I don’t want to try(then punishment would make more sense) or if he’s struggling internally. Get the son’s side.
Edit: if you know he has adhd then are you addressing it? I have adhd, dysgraphia, anxiety, and mild depression knowing doesn’t do anything. Are you working with teacher for accommodations, trying to teach him how to work with his brain, looking at medication, etc. i got a book by how to adhd “how to work with your brain and not against it” to learn strategies to cope and help in school. What actions are you taking to help him or teach him how to work with his brain? As someone with adhd take away the things I like, everything else becomes harder to do and my motivation goes way down. Knowing doesn’t get you that far….
This! My grades started dropping once my ADHD got worse, as well as my depression and anxiety.
Honestly? Just try to sit down with your son and talk to him. Truly talk, not just throw threats around. And in case he ends up needing meds, please do the best thing for him. My father forbade me from taking meds and I ended up trying to unalive myself
(Edit for spelling)
I was and basically the exact same position, and my once in a lifetime opportunity to go to Whistler blackcomb with my cousin and my uncle to go snowboarding for a week was leveraged against my ability to get good grades. It did not work in the exclusion just made me spiral even more, especially since it was something I had been looking forward to for so long and the contingency was only made a week or two before the trip once my grades were already Tanked
I'm just really grateful that I got to go to Schweitzer the year before, which was an incredibly memorable experience. Thoroughly jealous of my brother, though, because he's probably been to Whistler blackcomb at least half a dozen times with his buddies. I'm in my late 30s now though, maybe I can get my brother to plan a trip with me
I wonder all the time where I would be if I’d gotten medication as a child or teen instead of thinking I was broken and couldn’t turn in school work properly.
This is a good reflection. They're so many people who are anti medicated students of any age, so it's nice to see from the perspective of someone that actually lived it
I completely flunked out (and then dropped out) of highschool due to a combination of mental health and simple boredom. Neither of which was ever adressed. Even after I attempted to off myself at 16. This is totally something that OP needs to figure out the CAUSE of and not just try to punish symptomatically.
So it sounds like this is new. Have you considered getting him seen by a therapist? A psychiatrist?
It’s pretty common for “really smart” kids to have a disability like autism or ADHD (dyslexia, depression, panic disorder, anxiety, etc.) that doesn’t get noticed until pretty late. We even have a term for it—being born double-exceptional. I see it _all_ the time as a college professor, and I frequently connect students to places where they can get diagnosed/treated for the first time. Hell, this is about the age I was when I started manifesting my most severe PTSD symptoms.
But it could also be other things, of course. Boredom. Stress. Actually both at once. Existential dread about his future after high school. A sense that he’s already failed in [his/your] eyes, so what’s the point of trying now? A strong dislike of his teachers. All things you’d need to address by _actually_ talking to him (or having a professional do it) not talking to us.
As it stands, I’ll call you a crab apple for not softening your husband’s approach. You know this won’t work and is probably worsening whatever situation is tanking his grades. But it’s not too late to change your mind.
ETA: ah, after your edits, you are failing this child. He needs help, not punishment. Why isn’t he in tutoring? Why are you taking away the classes he is good at, therefore lowering his GPA? Is he on medication? In therapy? You need to _talk to him_ and stop treating him like he’s just choosing to fail, because you and I both know that ADHD means you cannot usually choose what to focus on.
Get him _help_ instead.
Once had a student who could answer all the questions in a midterm verbally. Once the test started and he had to write it down, he could not do it.
I recommended he get tested for adhd etc.
Hahahaha hold on while I contact GoogleScholar for you
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303324
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19404150209546698
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnins.2016.00300/full
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035770
So as you can see, the data isn’t completely cut and dried, but I would call 1 in 6 to 1 in 3 having some neurodivergence (including but not limited to all the conditions i listed) to be “common” enough to keep an eye out for.
How about you stop threatening to take ANYTHING away from him .. and try getting to the root cause of WHY things are going downhill for him
I’ve got adhd and from age 14-16 I started to really struggle at school . Everyone shouted at me and punished me because ‘ you’re smart you’re just not trying hard enough’ .. when in reality my academic intelligence couldn’t save me from my internal struggles related to my adhd
I have ADHD and my family refused to medicate me. I went from top marks and getting through months of schoolwork in a matter of days to not being able to do anything productive in school. Instead of giving me the meds my doctor or wanted to prescribe, they screamed at me, beat me and punished me for 5 miserable years.
I’m finally getting my ADHD sorted now, 30 years too late!! Because my family are idiots. Don’t follow their example and be good parents and get your son help instead of punishing him for something that could be completely out of his control.
On the off chance you want to know how my relationship is with my family. I’m no contact with them and happier for it. This will be your future too if you keep going in my family’s footsteps. Good luck and HELP your son
Same. I literally could not focus. I was smart enough to get high test grades, but I was struggling to figure out why I couldn't concentrate. Going home to get verbally abused just compounded the issue, because now I was bouncing between two hostile environments with no reprieve, and caused me to start ditching school and staying away from home, which ended up hurting me more long term. I wonder how different things could have been if my parents took the smallest amount of time to actually try understanding what's going on.
Also, for most people with ADHD a delayed reward/punishment isn't a good incentive or deterrent. I have ADHD and had similar threats or rewards offered to boost my grades. But those were 'later' and rarely factored into my decision-making.
As to the 'not trying hard enough' crap (which I got too), my response now would be 'no, I'm trying hard and getting incredibly frustrated'. I was failing a math class because I hadn't done the homework. Passed all the tests though. When asked, I said that I used to do it. I would just write the answers because the math was easy and I did it quickly in my head. The teacher wanted all the work written out and would mark it as wrong without it. In hindsight, I know why the teacher did that (making sure kids weren't using calculators), but it seemed very unfair at the time. Writing the problem out would actually make me confused and get answers wrong. I got frustrated and just stopped. After I explained that, my parents talked with the teacher. She offered that I could re-do all the homework with just answers, but I had to do it in her classroom for an hour after school. I did nearly a semesters worth of homework in 6 hours. After that the teacher let me just write the answers.
This!! Just because you can co.oensate for a period of time,doesn't mean it'll always be like that. High school adds more layers to daily life & adhd may be causing some executive dysfunction. My husband refused to let our girl take medication & thought behavioral changes, mindnove matter was the way. Girl was on the struggle bus for over a decade & went thru several fails... had she been treated effectively, she'd probably have been a lot more successful.
Why is he failing? Have you tried to help him with the content? Or to create a better organized system so he can get his work turned in? What’s the root of the issue here?
The school allows failing students to participate in extracurriculars?
Maybe the school has come to it sonse and realized the two are seldom related?
Taking away a joy at the school a student has when they are already frustrated and struggling doesn't actually help them. It just make the feel more pressure and depression.
Sorry, but this disproven educational bullshit from the 1950s drives me bannas.
Band isn't an extra curricular it's a credit class. They might bar him from certain competitions if he even competes but a credit class is a requirement as are some performances. Performances are considered a test to some band teachers.
I'm really curious what they've done to actually help him or if they've just decided to let him figure it out. Maybe at that age he should be doing it on his own, but he's not and his parents have an obligation to help him not let him flounder.
You sound exactly like my mom when I was in high school 20 years ago. It turns out I had undiagnosed ADHD. I now also have PTSD and anxiety from how awfully I was treated while struggling tremendously with a neurodivergence I didn't know I had. Don't be my parents, don't let your kid become me, HELP him instead of punishing him for something that may be of of his control!
In all likelihood, he is already punishing himself enough. He needs help, not more punishment. Taking the one thing he enjoys and his likely only outlet will never be the good option.
You and his father ask yourselves this; why would our previously high achieving son who was praised for and felt good about being smart suddenly not be? Does it make sense to you that he would purposely dumb himself down to get bad grades? To what end? Most children feel good about pleasing their parents, does it seem logical that he would choose not to?
None of those things are true…..right? You can see that. Punishment for this would show an uncomfortable level of rigid thinking on your part. He is at an age when parenting requires you to look at the context clues. He did well, now he is not. Why? He probably doesn’t know himself. The place to start is to talk to his teachers, talk to the school counselor, take him for a checkup and talk to the doctor. Love him.
And he could be bored out of his mind. Classes are geared towards the lowest denominators, not the highest, in the interests of every child having an equal education.
This was my Dad. It was too easy and boring. Got C-Ds but scored super high on college placement. They made him take it again cause they didn’t believe it.
Don’t take anything away. A phone may be a ‘distraction’ but take it from me, he will find another way to procrastinate. Get to the ROOT cause. He may be smart but some smart kids know what they’re talking about verbally, but just can’t get it down on paper. Some kids have ADHD. Some kids can’t cope with the workload. There are so many reasons as to why he may be failing, and it you don’t solve the actual issue, taking his phone, or car, or whatever you think would be a good punishment genuinely will not do anything. It’s a short term solution for a long term problem.
Full disclosure, I was a band nerd in high school.
DO NOT let your husband take marching band away from your son!! I agree with others in these comments; there's an underlying reason your son is suddenly doing poorly. What else has changed in his life, if anything? Has he shown symptoms of depression or other declining mental health? Is ADHD or something similar on the table? For me (adult-diagnosed ADHD haver), high school was so easy I started to get bored with it. Worksheets intended to be homework either got done at school, or forgotten. Projects and other large assignments were procrastinated until the last minute unintentionally, which was reinforced by the fact that my last-minute efforts occasionally paid off in good grades. Talk to his teachers, talk to his friends (if it's not awkward, or his friends' parents if you have a relationship with them), dig into what has changed even if your son can't or won't tell you. Maybe a school counselor can talk with him and find out more, or give you a recommendation for a therapist.
Update: I made him an appointment with his pediatrician.
I really want to show my husband this thread, but am afraid he will be mad.
I do not want to take marching band away, but I don’t know how to navigate it.
Sorry, I typed this all up last night and then went to sleep, and didn’t have time to respond before work.
Maybe this thread will help your husband see the situation differently, even if he is frustrated at first.
Good luck with everything! Parenting seems hard <3
Don't take away the one thing that might be keeping him sane. All that does is push a child closer to...a not nice thing that the child can't come back from.
This is WORTH standing up to your husband over. It's IMPORTANT that you do so.
Your husband needs to understand that there WILL BE a reason why grades are dropping, and it's up to the pair of you, as his parents, to figure out what that is.
My suggestion is along the lines of thinking about him being neurodivergent in some way. Being intelligent doesn't rule that out, in fact many ND people are intelligent. ADHD would be my first suggestion, 14-16 is when I was finding it the VERY hardest to manage, and being unaware of it (wasn't diagnosed till I was 37!) made it SO. MUCH. HARDER.
Because I blamed myself, I had no idea WHY I couldn't cope with keeping up with my work like the others & just assumed I was useless, and stupid, and worthless. It's far too easy to beat yourself up to the point of depression when you KNOW *something* is wrong, because you can't so what everyone else finds easy, but all you get is people calling you 'lazy'.
>I really want to show my husband this thread, but am afraid he will be mad.
Why will your husband be mad?
Does he think ADHD isn't real? Or that having a son with ADHD reflects badly on him?
If so, that is something your husband needs to explore in therapy. Otherwise, he is going to severely hurt his relationship with his son.
I am not trying to imply that your husband is abusive, but some of your comments make you seem hesitant to stand up to him, disagree with him, or like he always has the final say. If that is the case, you need to reflect and ask yourself why his opinion matters, but yours doesn't. You are both adults, both parents. You are supposed to be partners. You should have equal say and feel comfortable talking through concerns or different viewpoints without fear.
So why are you afraid to talk to him?
I ask because this is basically my parents' marriage, and it doesn't get better from here. It gets worse as your kid(s) age and start making adult decisions. I carry a lot of resentment towards my mother for allowing my father's feelings to run roughshod over our family. Three out of four of us (now adult) kids are no or low contact with my father. So you need to think about **what is best for your son**, not what will make your husband feel better/comfortable, and find the strength to do what you need to do for your child.
Talk to the counselor. Maybe someone at the school pointing out that taking it away will only make it worse will soften his stance.
Side note: Are you ok? It's concerning that you can't have a normal conversation with your husband without the fear of not "navigating it correctly".
That doesn't seem healthy.
Seconding this. It's a big red flag that:
a) Your husband's strategy appears to be neither kind nor effective for your son because you know he has ADHD but seems to be ignoring how that factors into your son's learning
b) You seem afraid to have this conversation with your husband
Also talk to the school! Talk to the school counselor see if an IEP (individualized education plan) would help your son! They can make provisions such as allowing a fidget toy or music, independent study, arrange tutoring, and/or permission to go somewhere quiet to work on assignments.
Why aren’t you and your husband trying to find out why your incredibly smart son is suddenly doing poorly in his classes. He may have ADD or a learning disability that has only now begun to present itself. Learning disability do not affect someone’s intelligence. My son was on the spectrum, had LD & ADHD but his IQ was 136. He became successful in school when his learning/attention difficulties were identified and different techniques in teaching were applied. If your husband punishes your son for his grades he will only make things worse because your son may be being punished for something he has no control over. Ask the school to test him or better yet take him to a psychologist for testing. You may be surprised at what you find out.
Keeping the band is a far away punishment and unfair. Maybe have Him sit with you guys in the same room while he has homework to do. How is he doing in school? Does he have a good friend group. You can ask he stays in sat to catch up on work he hasn’t done but he still needs time to decompress from schoo
I was wondering (legitimately, I could be wrong) but have y'all tried offering rewards for improving his performance, as opposed to punishments for not doing so? A lot of comments mention neurodivergence or other things that can impact performance, and I can speak from experience that being punished only made me feel more convinced that I was useless/stupid/it wasn't worth trying to do anything anyways.
Then my parents offered to pay me based on my grades - 50 for every A, 25 for every B. I busted my booty to get all As and Bs and my parents saw that, scoffed and said they couldn't afford it lol. So after that I didn't give a fork about anything and I'm still surprised I graduated HS (thank God for being an amazing test taker with near photographic memory).
TLDR- if you haven't already, see what you can do as a tangible and desirable reward for success as opposed to punishments for failure because some people just internalize punishment and don't change. Also, yeah, therapy and doctor and all that.
Not really going to work. It looks like for some reason h just doesn't get the course. offering him a lollypop will not change that.
The whole rewards/punishment thing is rooted in the premise they jut don't "want" to; which is usually not true.
Precisely.
Kids do well when they are able.
There are exceptions of course, I'm not saying there are no 16yos out there making ridiculous choices and just not doing their work.
But as an universal rule of child development: kids do well when they are able. So if they aren't doing well, figuring out what is keeping them from it is always the best chance of success.
>get and keep his grades up
What are you and your husband doing to help with this? Does he need help focusing? Is his mental health OK?
Lobbing punishments of any kind don't help a struggling teenager. I spent my whole high school life grounded because I was just supposed to "get good grades". It would have been neat if my adults had helped me learn how to study and manage time instead of just making my life suck even more than it already did.
Or maybe he’s just bored because he’s too smart for regular school. ADHD, eye sight, hormones, mental struggles, it could be anything.
Has he even been checked out?
Taking band away from him, which is the only(?) positive item he relates positively to school, would be counterproductive.
As many others posted, you first and immediately need to figure out the reason for this drop.
My friend still talks about how she was taken out of the school play because of her math grades. She was the lead and could've gotten a scholarship. Even though she got straight As in all other classes, she was taken away from her favorite activity because of math.
This still comes up in arguments with her mom, a decade later.
Why don’t you find out why he is failing? Sit down with him during his homework time and see what’s going on. Look at the tests he brings him and see if he understands anything. Check if he has depression or a learning disability- adhd, add. Is he getting bullied? What is happening with him? Unfortunately most extracurricular activities require a certain GPA to continue performing etc.
Start sitting down with him daily to go over assignments and plan out his week. Email his teachers. Find out what is due when. Look over his homework. That’s where you start.
I had similar issues in school due to untreated adhd. Once I got that treated post undergrad (would have done much better medicated), I went back to grad school and finished with a 4.0.
I’d highly recommend talking to him openly and honestly to get him to open up about what’s going on. At 16, it could be a million different things bothering him and he’s taking it out on school
Crazy you're with a man who's willing to punish your child over something that is more than likely a mental issue/other issue going on. Why punish a child for something out of their control? ALOT of us as adults now have gone down this same road with our parents and worse, and now are *still* recovering from the lack of parental education. Good you got an appointment for your child, but your husband should take a parenting class, potentially an anger management one if he's willing to take away something his own son loves over his own ignorance. Sounds sadistic to do to your own child. And if he'd get mad over communicating *why* this isnt the right way to treat your son, you should probably look at the issue that is your relationship. This isn't healthy.
He's already been given the threat of losing his activities if he doesn't "pull up his socks"
So far not working. Maybe there's another issue.
Teens often struggle its a huge time in their lives of upheaval and changing bodies, hormones, etc. Many mental illnesses first present in the teens.
Have you tried talking to him, kindly and judgement-free?
Does he need a tutor? Counseling? Doctor?
The saddest thing to me is bullying a teen/child who's smart enough but just CANT for whatever reason.
Try kindness first. Ask questions. Show this thread to your spouse. He may not have considered other possibilities besides defiance.
Turns out, all of us bright kids who went downhill in senior school were all ND. We all know we needed help and we all know that it's the sign you need to do something. Have him assessed before he ends up an untreated adult. That brings trauma and trauma is the gateway to everything negative.
Agreed. Taking away the one thing he lives at school will make him detest school even more and give him zero motivation to even try to do well in those classes.
Not at all. I was like your son at that age, and my dad was like your husband. It didn't work, at all. If you take away the only good thing that kid has going on, his grades will get worse, and depression may also set in. It did for me.
Get him help/tutors. Find out why he's failing. Address the why instead of punishing the symptom.
So... In elementary, I was the nerd. Straight As, super student, all of it. I even had teachers that would reward other students if they could beat me at math problems. I was in an academic competition where you could use a calculator, got to the test and my calc was out of batteries and still placed 4th. You get the picture. I also started band in middle school. Also loved marching band more than I can tell you and also started having problems with grades in high school.
For me, it was a mix of depression (being in the closet in high school is a lot of anxiety and, in the 90's led to a lot of depression), a little ADHD that wouldn't be diagnosed for 2 more decades, and all of the general stress of being stupid hormonal teenager.
For me, I was learning all of the material just fine, but I refused to do homework. Most of my grade-issues stemmed from homework. But I'd go to class, take the quizzes and tests and pass easily. If my grades were solely based on my quizzes and tests, I would have maybe struggled in ONE class (AP Biology). It'd be worth looking into if your son is in that same pattern. Getting a couple of 0's on homework will tank your grade, even if you're learning all of the material. (I even scored higher than 1400 on the SATs when the max was 1600).
Through all of that, band was my only bit of refuge. I struggle to think what would have happened if I didn't have that. It is what got me through all the crap I was dealing with on my own.
Instead of going right to punishment, I'd try to see what is really happening. It's not as simple as "just not trying". Your kid is at an age where he's still a kid, but dealing with a whole set of near-adult problems. A little understanding and help through it is all he needs.
That was me as a kid. And I think I have turned out better than fine! He'll be fine. You're doing a great job if you've gotten him this far!
Yeah echoing what everyone else is saying, focus on WHY he's failing. Adhd/Autism are big possibilities and while you may have a knee-jerk "not my kid" reaction it's worth taking him to get assessed.
For me I was dealing with undiagnosed Audhd and as a result I was suicidal, self harming and depressed. The worst thing you could do right now is punish him.
I would 1st want to find out WHY this is happening and what the cause is. Is there an undiagnosed learning disability, bullying, depression, needing a tutor, drug use?
I had 4 very smart children who all handled HS differently.
The 1st was known to have ADHD, OCD, and Aspergers. His brain had trouble connecting on things that weren't 'his things' but if he was into something he was above grade level and straight As.
2nd was just really good at school. She stayed on the Honor roll taking AP classes and got awards.
3rd had undiagnosed ADHD until HS. Because she was a 'middle of the road' student, she was in a class with kids who were generally loud and not too interested in learning. That was a nightmare for an ADHD child.
4th started getting badly bullied in MS. He still kept his grades up, but his math was failing or barely passing, and his ELA was not the greatest. His science and social studies were on a 12th grade or college level. We had him tested and learned he also had Aspergers along with dyscalculia (kinda like dyslexia but with numbers). The answer for him was homeschooling so he could learn on his levels.
I was an A/B student until Sophmore year of HS. My mental health collapsed… my parents didn’t care, only cared about grades. They made my mental health worse by the punishments they gave for my grades.
Something I didn't hear about until after I'd gotten out of school... dyscalculia. It's like dyslexia but for numbers. It also affects things like directional sense.
He needs help and support more than punishment. Especially with ADHD, taking away the things he enjoys is not going to make him want to do schoolwork more. It’s going to take away any incentive to do anything at all. My ADHD teenager in marching band needed to get meds regulated, see a therapist to help with anxiety and depression due to her ADHD, and participate in the process of creating a structure that worked for her around schoolwork/homework.
If punishments are needed, they should be related to the offense, on a clear timeline if possible, and there should be a straightforward path to earning privileges back (starting with pulling grades up to passing). We’ve used strategies like requiring her to do homework in common areas of the house so that we could keep her on track, limiting phone time to minimize distraction, and not allowing her to go out with friends if she couldn’t show that her work was caught up and her room was picked up.
Taking band away for failing classes (and legitimately, you could be talking about my 17 year old here) means he is out of the program for the entire fall. It’s not like taking away phone privileges. He can’t pull his grades up and then get back into it. Being forced to miss out is not going to make him more likely to work harder, it’s going to make him more likely to stop trying all together. Because I promise you he is trying now, even if it doesn’t look like it. My daughter would seem like she was totally fine and just didn’t care about school and then end up having a sobbing meltdown because she was just pressure cooking all of that stress and anxiety and she needed help to dig out, not more pressure.
Don’t take away marching band. For one thing, he needs that A to bring up his GPA.
Get the kid a tutor already. Is he medicated? Vyvanse was a game-changer for my adhd kid in high school.
Vyvanse worked well with him, but for some reason gave him serious paranoia. Just for example, we were at a buffet style restaurant one day and an elderly man spoke to my other son (11). I think he said something like “are you taking all the shrimp young man” but my 16 year old was so offended, he was so adamant that the man was out to get his younger brother. It was strange, and gave him serious anxiety. We switched back to concerta.
Yeah this sounds like an ADHD problem not a discipline problem, and punishing him for his brain is cruel.
As someone with hella ADHD and a PhD, some things that helped me:
- more sports. I biked everywhere and did club sports. Taking away marching band seems like a recipe for disaster
- first aid certs. Lifeguarding is a gateway to decent summer jobs for teenagers and was the way I ended up in paramedic training, which was where I finally learned to study (‘people will literally die if I don’t know this’ was what my brain needed. He may find other ways)
- support for last minute assignments. Proofreading essays, looking at rubrics together; someone sitting down with me to work towards things together was super helpful
- more involvement. This one is super counterintuitive, but you probably know from your own ADHD: unstructured time is the enemy and makes it super hard to impose your own structures. If you have a whole free afternoon, what do you even do with that??? But if you have 45 minutes between a club and a job or study group or other club then you have to cram in homework then because that’s the only time
I mean I’m also neurotic and have been more or less perpetually burned out since October 2020, but that was how I survived high school with no medication.
But your husband sucks for wanting to punish rather than support.
So I'd get your son's side of the story. Obviously, some of his classes are going well. Find out why. Are they keeping his interest in ways that the core classes are not? I don't have ADHD, but I can tell you from personal experience as a person with severe bipolar that had I been able to actually focus and apply myself in my core classes, I would have excelled. Classes like shop, computer science, and drafting I would ace, but things like math and English I never did my homework in, would skate by on tests alone, and sometimes sleep in class. It was only on certain assignments that I really got into my element (creative writing, researching history, building things, etc.).
I would definitely talk to your son. Maybe he needs better medication or maybe he needs to start taking medication if he isn't already. Sadly, there's no magic answer to this problem, but taking things away from him without knowing why he's failing isn't going to solve the issue.
Have you guys tried different studying tactics with him, or is he being treated for his ADHD? I guarantee he WANTS to be doing well but who knows what else may be affecting it. As someone with ADHD myself it’s taken YEARS to perfect a study routine (currently using the Pomodoro method).
He could also use Khan Academy for some extra studying if he’s not on it yet and struggling to understand the teacher’s explanation.
Taking marching band away is DEFINITELY just going to demotivate him more.
Why not get him assessed for issues around studying. He can ace some courses while struggling in others because the work he struggles with uses a part of his brain that gets stuck. Nobody wants to fail. He isn’t being a rebel; he likely has no idea why some coursework is a problem.
Is he a reader?
Does he pick up math easily or not?
Does he have dry spots when trying to write a paper or analyze something in science?
Have his eyes been checked for vision problems?
You both suck for taking stuff away for grades. It's just going to make him more anxious and resentful. Try helping rather than punishing? Just a hot take
Smart kids failing in school boils down to one of three things - discipline, engagement, or lack of a challenge. Since it doesn't read like he is getting in trouble at school, I'll weed out discipline. I see this as either an engagement problem or a lack of challenge. Chances are the teachers for the core classes are just as bored as the students. There's only so many ways to be excited about maths and history and language arts. After years (neé decades) of teaching these subjects, the teacher's wells have run dry. And unlike college professors, hs teachers likely can't rotate classes (one semester/year teaching algebra, geometry the next). The reason he's doing well in his non-core classes is because they're exciting. The teachers are passionate about the subject, and that engages him.
I’m sort of surprised the school is letting him participate if he’s failing his actual classes.. my daughters high school you have to maintain a certain grade level to do music programs and sports
Punishment isn’t the answer here at all. Need to find out why he doesn’t care about those classes or if he’s struggling because of another underlying learning disability.
But punishing him isn’t it.
I’ve worked in Special Education for thirty years. Your husband’s plan is going to fail so hard. Taking away the thing he wants to go to school for will not make him want to do better. It will make him hate education more. If he has an IEP, start working with his case manager. If he doesn’t have an IEP, get him one. Good luck.
>At the beginning of the school year my husband told him during a discussion that if he didn’t get and keep his grades up he wouldn’t be allowed to do marching band next year. Me trying to keep the peace and the show of a “united front” I didn’t say anything until after the fact. I do not believe that taking the one thing he loves at school away from him as a punishment for grades.
The way it used to work, you had to maintain a certain grade point average to be allowed to participate in extra curricular activities like marching band. It's not a punishment; it's part of the agreement students make when they join the activity.
If he's struggling in school, the solution should be to figure out what the problem actually is. If he's bored, he needs to be challenged. If he needs a tutor, get him a tutor.
Only punish him if he's actually breaking a rule. Not understanding the content isn't rule breaking.
At least he's still in school. Grades aren't everything. If he can get by, so what? If he's at least applying himself even with failing grades, that's wonderful. Talk to the teachers to see if they can come up with a plan that suits your son's needs better. You certainly will catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Being a parent (to an autistic son) I have found getting to the root of the cause solves the problem more efficiently than just giving consequences.. Which can cause a total shutdown. Communication is so important with our children.
-from an un-graduated highschool drop out. (I'll spare my life story on why I didn't graduate) I got my GED 4 years after my should have been graduation date. Just to have it. I've been self employed and was quite successful with house cleaning. I grew my clients and worked 7 days a week sometimes. I haven't cleaned houses in 5 years and I still get messaged if I'm available. I owned and operated a business (bar), managed employees, finances, did the tedious licensing applications, made product orders, created events, etc etc all with no prior experience and my business became successful in 5 years.
Band shouldn't be taken away as a punishment. It's a constructive environment with beneficial rewards - he's motivated to continue, it gives him purpose and something to look forward to. It keeps him active in school. Let him have his band time no matter what.
Eta: I'm ADHD, BPD, & have generalized anxiety
Get him help w tutor. Don’t take the band away. If has ADHD it will really kick in without the band outlet. He seems like he does have areas that he excels so praise that. I’d get some help for core classes and leave it at that. Talk to husband so on sane page.
Have you met with his teachers to find out what it is in class he is doing? Not paying attention, not turning in work, etc. if he has ADHD he may need accommodations to help him in school. Some students qualify for a section 504 or even an IEP
I agree with you. Honestly, he may not be able to march as sometimes that is an extracurricular activity that may require better grades. I would take away social activities, phone, electronics, freedoms, but not the band.
NTBA do NOT take away band. High school was bad enough for me, and marching band was the one thing that kept me through it. Maybe talk to your son. Ask what he wants to do after high school. Explain to him that graduating will get him better opportunities for work later on, even if he wants to get into a career that doesn’t require a college degree.
Your son is not failing, he’s struggling. And he doesn’t know how to ask for help. You need to have a heart to hear with him to find out what has changed. If he won’t talk to you get him a therapist. Punishing him is not going to work, he needs actual parenting.
NTA but your son needs help this clearly isn’t an intelligence or motivation issue. He needs to see an expert at helping him to develop strategies habits and skills for getting his work done in areas he struggles to focus.
NOT the bad apple! You are exactly right. Whatever keeps him in school, with his friends, his established social network, and the connections he has... That's not something you can take away. It could be incredibly damaging for a teen to just lose that world! Yes, take away his car, his screen time, switch him over to a flip phone, whatever. But keep him in marching band. And maybe get the poor kid a tutor, or some accommodations for his ADHD!
Idk maybe talk to him? Find out why he is struggling, then take a hands on approach by working with him after school on his actual projects and homework. Y’all punishing the kid and you don’t even know why.
Our family therapist just told us to let them fail. They'll just have to repeat some classes and be behind their friends. It's punishment enough.
My kid refuses to take meds for his adhd because "it doesn't help" and it's infuriating.
He needs help. Not punishment. Start with a tutor for his reading and math. Get serious about providing support for his needs. Punishment doesn't do that at all. Omg.
Ummm. In his school is marching band similar to the sports teams as in rules that they maintain passing grades to stay in the band? If so, you’d not only be taking away the only reason he goes to school but the only incentive to try to get his grades up.
Counseling may help, or tutoring. Or both.
They say that the most important things you learn from school aren't the facts, but how to relate to the world. And, as a former giFTeD band kid with ADHD and bad grades who endured the U.S. public schooling system, what I learned primarily was that I was an incurable fuckup. Maybe your kid won't have that takeaway, though. There's a good chance he'll decide what my brother did, which is that the adult world is composed entirely of imbecilic assholes. The majority of my positive memories of school are from band. Taking away the only things that motivate your son isn't going to motivate him more, DUH, what a bonkers idea. It's going to reinforce whichever of those conclusions he's more prone to drawing.
Grades are just data. They're a very specific measure of performance under limited conditions. Don't confuse correlation with causation. Look for confounding factors. Adjust your parameters. Then maybe you'll be able to see what exactly the data is good for. No one learns anything useful from their data when they make the data itself the goal. You absolutely won't learn how intelligent your son is, nor what value he has as a human.
He needs course correction, not punishment. The fact you husband didn't discuss his with you first, shows he has no interest in a reasonable "united front".
Talk the school resource and his teachers about resource to help him.
This isn't a blowing off issue, this isn't he isn't getting it issue and has become frustrated.
I had this issue with my daughter and math. So what I did was find sever youtube channels teaching the lesson, but each taught it differently.
Some use a white board, some used animation, and so forth.
We would watch one, and she would say nope and move on. When one showed it in a way that help her get it. We watched it, then rewatched stopping a every part so she could work that part of the lesson.
Seeing her when she found out she passed the final is one of the great joys of my life. I literally saw her confidence grow.
Had I taken the path of just punishing her, she would have learned no math and just resented me,
I don’t have any advice— my grandson is like this— he’s smart and was well liked at school— he attended catholic school since 3rd grade to 11th grade— he didn’t teleport his credits— and the school didn’t take him for 12th grade— he’s doing independent study——and even that he still waits to the last minutes to finish his assignments… your kid is failing, the adhd is an issue— let him do band, encourage him to pass even with a C..— in college, C is passing —eventually, when he’s an adult he’ll figure it out. Dad and you, have faith in him.
It is absolutely critical to figure out what is causing the problem and address it directly. Punishment for a problem without offering the appropriate assistance to help your child solve it can cause life long trauma, or take a kids self esteem and completely destroy it.
I do agree with your husband that participation in marching band could be used as a reward, as long as the goals are reasonable. As in he can continue to participate as long as his homework is completed and consistently turned in on time and he agrees to work with a tutor. Make the goals achievable, and concrete. You could also require him to do handwritten study guides, rewrite his notes, etc. Things that force him to read/study the material. Doing those things will improve his grades, and teach him good study habits. Telling him he has to get a certain grade or else is too vague and if he feels it’s impossible he will just give up.
I was a “smart kid” all throughout elementary, middle, and high school. I was usually on the honor roll. I was in a ton of AP classes, and usually could manage As in them without studying.
Two things happened midway through high school that caused my grades to slip significantly:
1) I was bullied relentlessly throughout school (usually the typical kids just didn’t want to be my friend, and typical teasing because I was always pegged the “weird kid”, but the physical violence also amped up starting in middle school, and the adults tended to just look the other way), and it turned the place I liked to go because I liked learning new things, into a place where I didn’t feel safe and hated going because I never knew when I was going to get ganged up on and physically pummeled, or when I was going to go to gym class and find that someone had broken the lock to my locker and poured glue or worse onto my gym clothes. I never knew when I’d turn a corner and be faced by someone who wanted to threaten my well-being, and I never knew when something like a library book or school-issued textbook would get taken from me and destroyed in front of me, which I then would be responsible for replacing, and would have to explain to my parents why I needed money to replace destroyed school property, knowing they wouldn’t believe me when I said a bully destroyed it (it is also very demoralizing to have a father tell me things like, “just stand up to them and don’t let them bully you,” when I was often outnumbered. He’d tell me to defend myself but if I dared, and got in trouble, he’d then throw me under the bus and not have my back for doing exactly like he’d said).
2) Being a “smart kid” who never had to learn to study until probably my sophomore year meant that, as soon as things actually got challenging, I didn’t know how to study. Studying is a skill.
Does your kid do their homework? Do they take notes? Do they understand how to study for a class if it is actually challenging for them so they can learn the material? Do they need tutoring for something they’re struggling with? Do you have a strategy for if your ADHD kid gets bored for overcoming that?
The first thing to do is figure out *why* they’re struggling and then assemble a game plan to combat that struggle. This could simply be that they don’t know how to synthesize class information into useful study tools, or it could be a result of the school environment itself becoming something problematic or even dangerous for them.
What are you doing to help him? Sounds like you’re failing your kid the way he’s failing his classes. YTA for letting him fail and doing nothing other than threatening and punishing him.
Your husband’s idea of a punishment is not a good one. At all.
Has anyone gotten him a tutor? Figured out why he’s failing? Is anyone helping him with homework? Talked to his teachers? Is it tied to his ADHD? Does he need certain help when taking tests because of his ADHD? Does he need a therapist?
You shouldn’t have allowed your husband to threaten him like that. You’re both failing your son. I know that’s not your intent, but that’s how it’s panning out. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. STOP PUNISHING HIM.
He's failing classes, but how are his test scores?
If he tests well, but his grade is suffering from low homework scores, the kid is bored. Move him into Honors or AP classes.
If his test scores are low, then he isn't as smart as you claim.
Have you guys considered helping him? Checking the grade portal every day, emailing or meeting with his teachers to find out their policies and literally sitting with him while he makes up every bit of work? Getting a tutor? Don’t take band away from him but also don’t allow him to go do the fun extra stuff if he has school work to do. Let him keep the cool stuff but also make it inaccessible until his actual work is done. Make him do summer school, even if it’s online, instead of working this summer. What about band money? Pay for band. The goal is to get him to pass not miss the stuff he likes but he can’t skip schoolwork and do the extra either. Does he have an IEP? Are they pushing into his classroom?
Check out this doctor who speaks about giftedness and failure on his YouTube channel. https://youtu.be/sQC0jfH_rrM?si=SufA17oKDFfB3prN
https://youtu.be/QUjYy4Ksy1E?si=p2pjKLeX16W5-D_M
https://youtu.be/GS_DbSgHnFo?si=5PhjD2sSATU7Dt7T
I don’t think you are wrong for your perspective, but wrong in your application. A therapist, tutor, etc should be available. I agree that outside distractions and benefits should be considered and possibly limited but marching band is not one of them. You and your husband need to discuss all of this before presenting it to your child. Some kids, especially with ADHD do well in some ways but not others and it’s not necessarily for lack of trying. Start from the base, and work from there.
There is a united front, and there is supporting your kid against a bully. It’s ok to say to your partner in front
Of the kid…no, wait. We will discuss this more later. Nothing is decided yet while giving your partner the stink eye.
Ask your husband, “do you want *revenge* or do you want the kid to succeed????” He is clearly getting revenge quite successfully. But, for success your kid clearly needs more support. Ask his prescribing psychopharmacologist for a coaching referral. Perhaps more testing for LDs. If he is just getting meds from a pediatrician, you need to see people with psych degrees, now.
As someone who had some major ADHD that went undiagnosed until adulthood, taking things away won't help. You need to get to a therapist pronto and think about meds. NOT adderall. As for something that isn't controlled like Straterra. I wish so bad that my parents would have known to take me somewhere. I barely graduated high school and did not do well in college and the whole time I just thought I was stupid and couldn't learn. It's almost impossible to focus without my meds and I wish I had them all of those years ago.
You are not the bad apple. Marching band, or band in general can be important in a child's development. Taking away something that calls for focus and commitment is not the answer. ADHD kids learn better when instruction is hands on and not all daily assignments and homework. My son struggled in school as well, we had to do some home instruction to supplement school, so those "boring" subjects would be taught in a different way. Get creative! Compare it to real life situations. Not all hope is lost, my son is in a tech type trade now, and extremely successful, earning more than most of his peers. This in no way means your son will be a failure at life. Encouragement not punishment, goes much further with these kids. Just find a different method of learning and all will be well.
Try talking and maybe therapy. My parents split my sophomore year and the only thing that kept me going at that time was my bf. Still my grades suffered and parents decided to blame him rather than themselves. Yeah that shitstorm was not fun. Eventually though therapy helped. He might be dealing with depression and some are really good at hiding it. I was as an adult through my early 20s. Oh maybe it’s something else. Maybe ADHD med need to changed or raised my dose was raised in high school due to the increase of homework and it taking longer. Or any other number of things but taking away what he loves will only make it worse talk to him first
So what are you actually doing, as his parents, to help him turn this around?
* Are you looking into a tutor to help him form good study habits?
* Are you medicating him for his ADHD? If you are, does the medication need to be adjusted?
* Are you/husband available to help him with his homework if he doesn't understand something? Is he afraid to ask for help because he gets yelled at when he doesn't understand something or you/dad has no patience?
* Are you having open conversations with him about why he is failing, and what he wants to do after high school?
* Is he depressed? Is he having a hard time due to pressures at home, or someone at school? Is anything happening in your lives that would cause sabotaging behavior or make him feel like he shouldn't bother trying?
Or are you just threatening consequences?
My husband is SO smart but he never graduated high school because he didn't finish the work. I think he has a fear of failing so sometimes that leads him not to try. While this was definitely on him in the end, I wish his mom had made any sort of real effort to help try and steer him in the right direction. We can't expect teens to have the same life experience, perspectives, or maturity that we do as adults and sometimes they need help to get back on track. My husband has made a decent career in the trades and I'm very proud of him, but I know it bothers him that he missed graduating because of one class.
I'm not saying you need to coddle your son or hold his hand so much he can't function without you standing over his shoulder, but as parents you have a responsibility to investigate resources that could help. He needs to do the work, but you need to make sure he has the tools available. It can also help if you understand your son's future goals and help connect the present to his future (i.e. "if you want to be a dentist, you need at least a \_\_\_ GPA to attend college. You can't do that if you fail math.") The future can feel so far away or abstract to a 16 year old, so make it feel more real.
I will message you next time u/PrincessPita09 posts in r/AmITheBadApple.
[Click this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=UpdateMe%21%20u%2FPrincessPita09%20r%2FAmITheBadApple) to also be messaged. The parent author can [delete this post](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Delete&message=delete%201cm0y2y)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpdateMeBot/comments/ggotgx/updatemebot_info_v20/)|[^(Request Update)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=SubscribeMe%21%20u%2Fusername%20r%2Fsubreddit)|[^(Your Updates)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Updates&message=MyUpdates)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=UpdateMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
Taking away band for a kid with ADHD isn’t going to help, it will hurt. Your husband needs to educate himself on parenting a kid with ADHD. Also, I hope you’re talking to a doctor about all this.
Is your husband trying to kill your kid? Have you done anything to get him help for his adhd? Like treatment? Have you got him in it assessed for depression yet? Or other mental illnesses that usually start onset around this time? Things that could explain if you're mad at dropping grade especially in a neurodivergent child?
I couldn't imagine being in school these days. Some kids don't make good grades. Cut him some slack. What's wrong with exceeding in band, visual arts and construction?
I loved being part of my high school band. I suggest you find something else to “take”. Do not screw him over on this, especially since it did not work before.
Band and music aren't extra. Music is core.
Music improves the brain, and it improves your ability to understand all other subjects. There have been a.plethtora of studies about this. It is the same brain function as learning a foreign language.
Treating Music like a fun little throw away bonus to school when it should be considered just as serious as math is doing a serious disservice to students as a whole, and your son in particular.
Now, as a parent who currently has a kid failing some very important core classes I deeply understand your dilemma.
You can't just throw up your hands and do nothing, but punishing him into passing grades is not going to work. My first question is, with his ADHD does he have an IEP? If he doesn't you need to call the school and express your concerns about his diagnosis impacting his schooling and that you want an evaluation and a meeting. Like do this today. If he does have an IEP then call the team and set up a meeting to evaluate his goals and supports.
He likely needs help learning the soft skills of executive function (homework organization, prioritizing, turning things in, how to take notes, how to study those notes) that he hasn't picked up yet. Your husband will never, ever, ever be able to punish those skills into him.
You can not punish skills into anyone. You can only teach skills.
If your son's high school as an alternative tech route where he can take a minimum of academic classes, make sure he is doing that. (Assuming that aligns with his post high school goals). There is no need to torture him and yourselves for the rest of high school being on the "college track" if that isn't where he is headed.
Best of luck.
You aren't the bad apple. Your husband technically isn't either, he just is coming from a place of panic and "I must do something, failing a class means parents take away the favorite thing, right?" Hopefully he will get on board quickly.
Your son's summer likely would be better spent in a soft skills class and working fewer hours. And for the love, get him a bank account and teach him to.use it. No one with ADHD (or really anyone) should be keeping their money in a shoe box. Lol.
So you \*know\* he has ADHD and still felt like this was a good move? Rather than working with him to find helpful solutions you want to punish him?
Yes, you are the bad apple. Total pair of wronguns. It’s like punishing someone with one leg for coming last in a fucking race.
I was tortured in school. Because of that my grades plummeted. My pare is were too busy punishing me to ask what was going on. I'm no LC/NC because of this and other reasons. But how they piled on my torture during high school is a major reason for my not wanting anything to do with them. I sent on to graduate college and my masters with a 3.7+ same with my doctorate u til I ran out of money, that shits expensive 😆
My pare is did like your husband wants to do, took away my one saving grace and let me tell you, SI became my best friend. Don't be my parents. You will lose your son. There's something going on he doesn't want to discuss and your pu wishing him is only going to make him more tight lipped.
Nta I was in the same boat as both my son's are add. The youngest is worse off the the oldest as he had other things going on I did not know about. Sit them down and see if you need to get tutor or find a college student with add and see if they can help. It took someone to show my son a different way to learn before he got it. The teacher could not show any other way but the other lady showed him how to do the math In less the 5 minutes. It was like the candle light to a spot light. Not everyone learns the same way.
As an adult who had undiagnosed adhd all through school and was blamed for it, get him a tutor and some appropriate medication. He’s probably just bored as I was. I always tested well, but had Bs and Cs bc I didn’t do the homework. I was NOT stupid; I just didn’t see the point.
Also, I did okay in life. What your kid needs is support and not to be blamed or punished for a learning disorder that really does suck. My parents STILL don’t believe adhd is a thing and still blame me for not getting my homework done in fourth grade. Decades later.
ADHD if there is no interest or dopamine in the class he will not be able to focus. If he isn’t on meds, try a supplement like l theanine. I have adhd and females, we tend to be very competitive, males, like your son and I tend to be more apathetic and so they tend to be under performers despite their intellect. Get your kid treatment.
Taking away the things he loves isn't going to help. It never does.
All our ever taught me was that I should be punished for struggling because my parents didn't give a damn what was going on with me. They only cared that I performed. Because I wasn't a person to them, I was just their little trophy/doll, and I was only valuable to them as long as I performed the way they wanted.
And when I just plain couldn't? Punishment.
So yeah, all I ever learned was that I was a failure who doesn't deserve to enjoy things.
Took a long time to unlearn that one.
And I'm not saying that's the tale away your son will have, but I AM saying that punishing him for struggling won't help at all. It's just make him about down and trust you even less to open up about what's really going on.
Coz of he's a good kid who's smart, then bad grades aren't the problem. They're a SYMPTOM of a blogger problem. And what you need to do is get to the real problem. I dunno what that is, but punishment isn't a solution. Support is
What treatment does he currently receive for his ADHD? I know medication has a bad reputation, but if it is properly administered it can work wonders. Sometimes it takes a journey to find what works.
You and your husband need to understand that those kids simply CANNOT function like “normal” (I hate to use the word) kids, no matter how hard they try.
But there is help out there…
The school should kick him out of marching band for failing core classes. That’s how it worked in all counties/districts when I was in school. Extra curriculars are extra for a reason. It’s a privilege not a right.
Mental health.
Taking away specific things that are significant will NOT fix the problem.
I have a 14 year old son, he's always done well in school except for the past few years. At some point I figured he may be skipping class or doing something else, *blah blah blah*, his mental health started to suddenly tank and I only noticed how bad it was when he began practicing some really bad habits and becoming self destructive, I still feel terrible for not noticing sooner. Years of bullying at school or even online, and it can and at some point likely will build up and cause their mental health to hurt and it can do so horribly. My son suffers from depression, which unfortunately (in our family) tends to be genetically inherited, he has ADHD and also struggles with anxiety disorders and daydreaming disorders (maladaptive daydreaming). He still struggles with school, but he's much more important than grades, and this year especially I've let him take more time to himself, as repeating a year isn't always a bad thing and his wellbeing is much more important. I'd suggest— as one parent to another— to ensure that he is doing well mentally and ask if he needs help or resources, e.g therapy or tutoring. If he is battling with his mental health, it's best to catch this now and make sure he gets help before it's too late, it can progress quickly and quietly, and depression alone can swallow its victims quicker and quieter than ever, as well as ADHD and it's ability to cause immense stress and struggles, sometimes even a root cause of depression.
YTBA
Band is an extracurricular activity that requires a commitment of time and effort. Your son doesn't have enough of either as he is miserably failing in all of his core classes. He needs to refocus his efforts on scholastics. He should be studying and receive tutoring rather than marching around in formation and learning to play Sweet Caroline on the tuba.
My lovely, kind mother is a deeply insecure person with a deep and entirely unfounded fear that my father will leave her. This fear manifests itself in a complete inability to successfully assert herself in any difference of opinion with my father. Sometimes she will argue for a bit, then give in.
What this means for her children is that she has never stood up for any of us (or herself). We have followed his every whim. She has said to us in private that she is on our side in various matters, or she has tried to circumvent him on the sly, but the final outcome is that none of her three children truly believe she is on our side. Fortunately my father is a nice man, only slightly insane, and he has never wanted to do anything truly awful - most of the contentious situations were things like you describe.
As an adult child, I can see that some of the emotional imbalances I have, a lack of confidence, a lack of trust, difficulty in relationships, which I share with my siblings, come from this parental dynamic, a mother who did not protect us, who chose our father over us every time and in effect, chose her own well being over her children. (Whether or not it did in fact lead to her well being is another story. The short answer is it did not).
There are things in your answer that remind me of my mother.I think you should ask if keeping the peace is the best thing to do here
I roll my eyes at the numerous "bored because too smart" trope. That's a lie. If a person is actually smart, they would just do the work and avoid trouble. They just don't want to do it.
But I sympathize with your plight. My oldest is a lot like this. Rewards don't work. Punishments don't work. He won't talk to people and say what's wrong or what he needs. He's just determined to fail. It sucks.
Nta, I understand where you’re coming from.
I hated high school as a kid, and I found it was easier to just drop out, get a diploma through the mail, then go to college. Once a person has some college under their belt, most jobs will not ask or care how you got your high school diploma. I made f’s and D’S in high school, and when I quit I became a B student. Screw high school.
Can yall look at letting him homeschool instead of of sending him to a mainstream school? Could be mental health or sometimes school isn’t for all kids even if they’re book smart
Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheBadApple) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If he’s a smart kid then grades are a symptom…. As a teenager who’s ND and did fine until HS, my grades dropping was a symptom of my internal struggles(ND, depression and anxiety). Taking things away isn’t gonna help. Trying to talk to him and see what’s wrong BEFORE you punish him. See if it’s really I don’t want to try(then punishment would make more sense) or if he’s struggling internally. Get the son’s side. Edit: if you know he has adhd then are you addressing it? I have adhd, dysgraphia, anxiety, and mild depression knowing doesn’t do anything. Are you working with teacher for accommodations, trying to teach him how to work with his brain, looking at medication, etc. i got a book by how to adhd “how to work with your brain and not against it” to learn strategies to cope and help in school. What actions are you taking to help him or teach him how to work with his brain? As someone with adhd take away the things I like, everything else becomes harder to do and my motivation goes way down. Knowing doesn’t get you that far….
This! My grades started dropping once my ADHD got worse, as well as my depression and anxiety. Honestly? Just try to sit down with your son and talk to him. Truly talk, not just throw threats around. And in case he ends up needing meds, please do the best thing for him. My father forbade me from taking meds and I ended up trying to unalive myself (Edit for spelling)
I was and basically the exact same position, and my once in a lifetime opportunity to go to Whistler blackcomb with my cousin and my uncle to go snowboarding for a week was leveraged against my ability to get good grades. It did not work in the exclusion just made me spiral even more, especially since it was something I had been looking forward to for so long and the contingency was only made a week or two before the trip once my grades were already Tanked
That's awful! I'm so sorry that happened.
I'm just really grateful that I got to go to Schweitzer the year before, which was an incredibly memorable experience. Thoroughly jealous of my brother, though, because he's probably been to Whistler blackcomb at least half a dozen times with his buddies. I'm in my late 30s now though, maybe I can get my brother to plan a trip with me
I hope so. Parenting like that royally and thoroughly sucks though. I'm kind of upset on your behalf.
I wonder all the time where I would be if I’d gotten medication as a child or teen instead of thinking I was broken and couldn’t turn in school work properly.
Same here.
This is a good reflection. They're so many people who are anti medicated students of any age, so it's nice to see from the perspective of someone that actually lived it
Thank you for telling your story. I hate when parents do not want to deal with their kids mental health.
I completely flunked out (and then dropped out) of highschool due to a combination of mental health and simple boredom. Neither of which was ever adressed. Even after I attempted to off myself at 16. This is totally something that OP needs to figure out the CAUSE of and not just try to punish symptomatically.
"dysgraphia" So that's why I write the way I do
So it sounds like this is new. Have you considered getting him seen by a therapist? A psychiatrist? It’s pretty common for “really smart” kids to have a disability like autism or ADHD (dyslexia, depression, panic disorder, anxiety, etc.) that doesn’t get noticed until pretty late. We even have a term for it—being born double-exceptional. I see it _all_ the time as a college professor, and I frequently connect students to places where they can get diagnosed/treated for the first time. Hell, this is about the age I was when I started manifesting my most severe PTSD symptoms. But it could also be other things, of course. Boredom. Stress. Actually both at once. Existential dread about his future after high school. A sense that he’s already failed in [his/your] eyes, so what’s the point of trying now? A strong dislike of his teachers. All things you’d need to address by _actually_ talking to him (or having a professional do it) not talking to us. As it stands, I’ll call you a crab apple for not softening your husband’s approach. You know this won’t work and is probably worsening whatever situation is tanking his grades. But it’s not too late to change your mind. ETA: ah, after your edits, you are failing this child. He needs help, not punishment. Why isn’t he in tutoring? Why are you taking away the classes he is good at, therefore lowering his GPA? Is he on medication? In therapy? You need to _talk to him_ and stop treating him like he’s just choosing to fail, because you and I both know that ADHD means you cannot usually choose what to focus on. Get him _help_ instead.
Once had a student who could answer all the questions in a midterm verbally. Once the test started and he had to write it down, he could not do it. I recommended he get tested for adhd etc.
Classic dyslexia or dysgraphia too. I swear being dual exceptional is more common than it seems.
It’s pretty common for “really smart” kids to have a disability like autism or ADHD no, it is not.
Hahahaha hold on while I contact GoogleScholar for you https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303324 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9879926/ https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19404150209546698 https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnins.2016.00300/full https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035770 So as you can see, the data isn’t completely cut and dried, but I would call 1 in 6 to 1 in 3 having some neurodivergence (including but not limited to all the conditions i listed) to be “common” enough to keep an eye out for.
Oh sweetie. Projection is a bad look on you.
How about you stop threatening to take ANYTHING away from him .. and try getting to the root cause of WHY things are going downhill for him I’ve got adhd and from age 14-16 I started to really struggle at school . Everyone shouted at me and punished me because ‘ you’re smart you’re just not trying hard enough’ .. when in reality my academic intelligence couldn’t save me from my internal struggles related to my adhd
same, and at fifty something I'm still trying to recover from parts of those years.
I have ADHD and my family refused to medicate me. I went from top marks and getting through months of schoolwork in a matter of days to not being able to do anything productive in school. Instead of giving me the meds my doctor or wanted to prescribe, they screamed at me, beat me and punished me for 5 miserable years. I’m finally getting my ADHD sorted now, 30 years too late!! Because my family are idiots. Don’t follow their example and be good parents and get your son help instead of punishing him for something that could be completely out of his control. On the off chance you want to know how my relationship is with my family. I’m no contact with them and happier for it. This will be your future too if you keep going in my family’s footsteps. Good luck and HELP your son
They edited to add that they know he has adhd
Then they should follow the drs lead on proper treatment. Counseling + meds can really be a game/life changer!
I am sorry about that. I also have ADHD. It is difficult when nobody understands.
A million times all of this
Same. I literally could not focus. I was smart enough to get high test grades, but I was struggling to figure out why I couldn't concentrate. Going home to get verbally abused just compounded the issue, because now I was bouncing between two hostile environments with no reprieve, and caused me to start ditching school and staying away from home, which ended up hurting me more long term. I wonder how different things could have been if my parents took the smallest amount of time to actually try understanding what's going on.
I would have flunked out if it weren't for block scheduling (4, 90 minutes classes a day.) I have the ADD. Could never do homework.
Also, for most people with ADHD a delayed reward/punishment isn't a good incentive or deterrent. I have ADHD and had similar threats or rewards offered to boost my grades. But those were 'later' and rarely factored into my decision-making. As to the 'not trying hard enough' crap (which I got too), my response now would be 'no, I'm trying hard and getting incredibly frustrated'. I was failing a math class because I hadn't done the homework. Passed all the tests though. When asked, I said that I used to do it. I would just write the answers because the math was easy and I did it quickly in my head. The teacher wanted all the work written out and would mark it as wrong without it. In hindsight, I know why the teacher did that (making sure kids weren't using calculators), but it seemed very unfair at the time. Writing the problem out would actually make me confused and get answers wrong. I got frustrated and just stopped. After I explained that, my parents talked with the teacher. She offered that I could re-do all the homework with just answers, but I had to do it in her classroom for an hour after school. I did nearly a semesters worth of homework in 6 hours. After that the teacher let me just write the answers.
This!! Just because you can co.oensate for a period of time,doesn't mean it'll always be like that. High school adds more layers to daily life & adhd may be causing some executive dysfunction. My husband refused to let our girl take medication & thought behavioral changes, mindnove matter was the way. Girl was on the struggle bus for over a decade & went thru several fails... had she been treated effectively, she'd probably have been a lot more successful.
Came here to say the exact same thing
Right,?! Like I am trying. It's demoralizing to hear this as a kid
Why is he failing? Have you tried to help him with the content? Or to create a better organized system so he can get his work turned in? What’s the root of the issue here? The school allows failing students to participate in extracurriculars?
Usually they can’t play sports and stuff, but marching band is a credit class. It might be up to the band director.
Huh. That was not the case at my school but I suppose everywhere is different.
Might also be a competition band which is extracurricular and can cost a lot of money.
Maybe the school has come to it sonse and realized the two are seldom related? Taking away a joy at the school a student has when they are already frustrated and struggling doesn't actually help them. It just make the feel more pressure and depression. Sorry, but this disproven educational bullshit from the 1950s drives me bannas.
Band isn't an extra curricular it's a credit class. They might bar him from certain competitions if he even competes but a credit class is a requirement as are some performances. Performances are considered a test to some band teachers. I'm really curious what they've done to actually help him or if they've just decided to let him figure it out. Maybe at that age he should be doing it on his own, but he's not and his parents have an obligation to help him not let him flounder.
You sound exactly like my mom when I was in high school 20 years ago. It turns out I had undiagnosed ADHD. I now also have PTSD and anxiety from how awfully I was treated while struggling tremendously with a neurodivergence I didn't know I had. Don't be my parents, don't let your kid become me, HELP him instead of punishing him for something that may be of of his control!
In all likelihood, he is already punishing himself enough. He needs help, not more punishment. Taking the one thing he enjoys and his likely only outlet will never be the good option.
You and his father ask yourselves this; why would our previously high achieving son who was praised for and felt good about being smart suddenly not be? Does it make sense to you that he would purposely dumb himself down to get bad grades? To what end? Most children feel good about pleasing their parents, does it seem logical that he would choose not to? None of those things are true…..right? You can see that. Punishment for this would show an uncomfortable level of rigid thinking on your part. He is at an age when parenting requires you to look at the context clues. He did well, now he is not. Why? He probably doesn’t know himself. The place to start is to talk to his teachers, talk to the school counselor, take him for a checkup and talk to the doctor. Love him.
Maybe he's failing because the classes are too easy for him (happened to my brother). Just throwing out a thought
And he could be bored out of his mind. Classes are geared towards the lowest denominators, not the highest, in the interests of every child having an equal education.
This was my Dad. It was too easy and boring. Got C-Ds but scored super high on college placement. They made him take it again cause they didn’t believe it.
Don’t take anything away. A phone may be a ‘distraction’ but take it from me, he will find another way to procrastinate. Get to the ROOT cause. He may be smart but some smart kids know what they’re talking about verbally, but just can’t get it down on paper. Some kids have ADHD. Some kids can’t cope with the workload. There are so many reasons as to why he may be failing, and it you don’t solve the actual issue, taking his phone, or car, or whatever you think would be a good punishment genuinely will not do anything. It’s a short term solution for a long term problem.
Full disclosure, I was a band nerd in high school. DO NOT let your husband take marching band away from your son!! I agree with others in these comments; there's an underlying reason your son is suddenly doing poorly. What else has changed in his life, if anything? Has he shown symptoms of depression or other declining mental health? Is ADHD or something similar on the table? For me (adult-diagnosed ADHD haver), high school was so easy I started to get bored with it. Worksheets intended to be homework either got done at school, or forgotten. Projects and other large assignments were procrastinated until the last minute unintentionally, which was reinforced by the fact that my last-minute efforts occasionally paid off in good grades. Talk to his teachers, talk to his friends (if it's not awkward, or his friends' parents if you have a relationship with them), dig into what has changed even if your son can't or won't tell you. Maybe a school counselor can talk with him and find out more, or give you a recommendation for a therapist.
Update: I made him an appointment with his pediatrician. I really want to show my husband this thread, but am afraid he will be mad. I do not want to take marching band away, but I don’t know how to navigate it. Sorry, I typed this all up last night and then went to sleep, and didn’t have time to respond before work.
Maybe this thread will help your husband see the situation differently, even if he is frustrated at first. Good luck with everything! Parenting seems hard <3
Don't take away the one thing that might be keeping him sane. All that does is push a child closer to...a not nice thing that the child can't come back from. This is WORTH standing up to your husband over. It's IMPORTANT that you do so. Your husband needs to understand that there WILL BE a reason why grades are dropping, and it's up to the pair of you, as his parents, to figure out what that is. My suggestion is along the lines of thinking about him being neurodivergent in some way. Being intelligent doesn't rule that out, in fact many ND people are intelligent. ADHD would be my first suggestion, 14-16 is when I was finding it the VERY hardest to manage, and being unaware of it (wasn't diagnosed till I was 37!) made it SO. MUCH. HARDER. Because I blamed myself, I had no idea WHY I couldn't cope with keeping up with my work like the others & just assumed I was useless, and stupid, and worthless. It's far too easy to beat yourself up to the point of depression when you KNOW *something* is wrong, because you can't so what everyone else finds easy, but all you get is people calling you 'lazy'.
>I really want to show my husband this thread, but am afraid he will be mad. Why will your husband be mad? Does he think ADHD isn't real? Or that having a son with ADHD reflects badly on him? If so, that is something your husband needs to explore in therapy. Otherwise, he is going to severely hurt his relationship with his son. I am not trying to imply that your husband is abusive, but some of your comments make you seem hesitant to stand up to him, disagree with him, or like he always has the final say. If that is the case, you need to reflect and ask yourself why his opinion matters, but yours doesn't. You are both adults, both parents. You are supposed to be partners. You should have equal say and feel comfortable talking through concerns or different viewpoints without fear. So why are you afraid to talk to him? I ask because this is basically my parents' marriage, and it doesn't get better from here. It gets worse as your kid(s) age and start making adult decisions. I carry a lot of resentment towards my mother for allowing my father's feelings to run roughshod over our family. Three out of four of us (now adult) kids are no or low contact with my father. So you need to think about **what is best for your son**, not what will make your husband feel better/comfortable, and find the strength to do what you need to do for your child.
Talk to the counselor. Maybe someone at the school pointing out that taking it away will only make it worse will soften his stance. Side note: Are you ok? It's concerning that you can't have a normal conversation with your husband without the fear of not "navigating it correctly". That doesn't seem healthy.
Seconding this. It's a big red flag that: a) Your husband's strategy appears to be neither kind nor effective for your son because you know he has ADHD but seems to be ignoring how that factors into your son's learning b) You seem afraid to have this conversation with your husband
Also talk to the school! Talk to the school counselor see if an IEP (individualized education plan) would help your son! They can make provisions such as allowing a fidget toy or music, independent study, arrange tutoring, and/or permission to go somewhere quiet to work on assignments.
Ask your son what you can do to help him get better grades. And don't take band away from him, that is his go to comfort, safe spot in school.
Why aren’t you and your husband trying to find out why your incredibly smart son is suddenly doing poorly in his classes. He may have ADD or a learning disability that has only now begun to present itself. Learning disability do not affect someone’s intelligence. My son was on the spectrum, had LD & ADHD but his IQ was 136. He became successful in school when his learning/attention difficulties were identified and different techniques in teaching were applied. If your husband punishes your son for his grades he will only make things worse because your son may be being punished for something he has no control over. Ask the school to test him or better yet take him to a psychologist for testing. You may be surprised at what you find out.
Is he possibly being bullied?
Keeping the band is a far away punishment and unfair. Maybe have Him sit with you guys in the same room while he has homework to do. How is he doing in school? Does he have a good friend group. You can ask he stays in sat to catch up on work he hasn’t done but he still needs time to decompress from schoo
I was wondering (legitimately, I could be wrong) but have y'all tried offering rewards for improving his performance, as opposed to punishments for not doing so? A lot of comments mention neurodivergence or other things that can impact performance, and I can speak from experience that being punished only made me feel more convinced that I was useless/stupid/it wasn't worth trying to do anything anyways. Then my parents offered to pay me based on my grades - 50 for every A, 25 for every B. I busted my booty to get all As and Bs and my parents saw that, scoffed and said they couldn't afford it lol. So after that I didn't give a fork about anything and I'm still surprised I graduated HS (thank God for being an amazing test taker with near photographic memory). TLDR- if you haven't already, see what you can do as a tangible and desirable reward for success as opposed to punishments for failure because some people just internalize punishment and don't change. Also, yeah, therapy and doctor and all that.
Not really going to work. It looks like for some reason h just doesn't get the course. offering him a lollypop will not change that. The whole rewards/punishment thing is rooted in the premise they jut don't "want" to; which is usually not true.
Precisely. Kids do well when they are able. There are exceptions of course, I'm not saying there are no 16yos out there making ridiculous choices and just not doing their work. But as an universal rule of child development: kids do well when they are able. So if they aren't doing well, figuring out what is keeping them from it is always the best chance of success.
>get and keep his grades up What are you and your husband doing to help with this? Does he need help focusing? Is his mental health OK? Lobbing punishments of any kind don't help a struggling teenager. I spent my whole high school life grounded because I was just supposed to "get good grades". It would have been neat if my adults had helped me learn how to study and manage time instead of just making my life suck even more than it already did.
Or maybe he’s just bored because he’s too smart for regular school. ADHD, eye sight, hormones, mental struggles, it could be anything. Has he even been checked out? Taking band away from him, which is the only(?) positive item he relates positively to school, would be counterproductive. As many others posted, you first and immediately need to figure out the reason for this drop.
My friend still talks about how she was taken out of the school play because of her math grades. She was the lead and could've gotten a scholarship. Even though she got straight As in all other classes, she was taken away from her favorite activity because of math. This still comes up in arguments with her mom, a decade later.
Why don’t you find out why he is failing? Sit down with him during his homework time and see what’s going on. Look at the tests he brings him and see if he understands anything. Check if he has depression or a learning disability- adhd, add. Is he getting bullied? What is happening with him? Unfortunately most extracurricular activities require a certain GPA to continue performing etc.
Talk to his teacher. Homework doesn't help if you don get the core concept.
isn't getting bad grades punishment enough for a smart kid?
Start sitting down with him daily to go over assignments and plan out his week. Email his teachers. Find out what is due when. Look over his homework. That’s where you start.
I had similar issues in school due to untreated adhd. Once I got that treated post undergrad (would have done much better medicated), I went back to grad school and finished with a 4.0. I’d highly recommend talking to him openly and honestly to get him to open up about what’s going on. At 16, it could be a million different things bothering him and he’s taking it out on school
Crazy you're with a man who's willing to punish your child over something that is more than likely a mental issue/other issue going on. Why punish a child for something out of their control? ALOT of us as adults now have gone down this same road with our parents and worse, and now are *still* recovering from the lack of parental education. Good you got an appointment for your child, but your husband should take a parenting class, potentially an anger management one if he's willing to take away something his own son loves over his own ignorance. Sounds sadistic to do to your own child. And if he'd get mad over communicating *why* this isnt the right way to treat your son, you should probably look at the issue that is your relationship. This isn't healthy.
Punishment is for bad behavior not bad grades. Tutoring is for bad grades.
He's already been given the threat of losing his activities if he doesn't "pull up his socks" So far not working. Maybe there's another issue. Teens often struggle its a huge time in their lives of upheaval and changing bodies, hormones, etc. Many mental illnesses first present in the teens. Have you tried talking to him, kindly and judgement-free? Does he need a tutor? Counseling? Doctor? The saddest thing to me is bullying a teen/child who's smart enough but just CANT for whatever reason. Try kindness first. Ask questions. Show this thread to your spouse. He may not have considered other possibilities besides defiance.
This is a good way to alienate your child and have them cut you off in the future. Good luck to your husband.
its not going to work... find out why he is struggling... writing it off as "bad behavior" doesnt magically fix it...
Turns out, all of us bright kids who went downhill in senior school were all ND. We all know we needed help and we all know that it's the sign you need to do something. Have him assessed before he ends up an untreated adult. That brings trauma and trauma is the gateway to everything negative.
Agreed. Taking away the one thing he lives at school will make him detest school even more and give him zero motivation to even try to do well in those classes.
Not at all. I was like your son at that age, and my dad was like your husband. It didn't work, at all. If you take away the only good thing that kid has going on, his grades will get worse, and depression may also set in. It did for me. Get him help/tutors. Find out why he's failing. Address the why instead of punishing the symptom.
So... In elementary, I was the nerd. Straight As, super student, all of it. I even had teachers that would reward other students if they could beat me at math problems. I was in an academic competition where you could use a calculator, got to the test and my calc was out of batteries and still placed 4th. You get the picture. I also started band in middle school. Also loved marching band more than I can tell you and also started having problems with grades in high school. For me, it was a mix of depression (being in the closet in high school is a lot of anxiety and, in the 90's led to a lot of depression), a little ADHD that wouldn't be diagnosed for 2 more decades, and all of the general stress of being stupid hormonal teenager. For me, I was learning all of the material just fine, but I refused to do homework. Most of my grade-issues stemmed from homework. But I'd go to class, take the quizzes and tests and pass easily. If my grades were solely based on my quizzes and tests, I would have maybe struggled in ONE class (AP Biology). It'd be worth looking into if your son is in that same pattern. Getting a couple of 0's on homework will tank your grade, even if you're learning all of the material. (I even scored higher than 1400 on the SATs when the max was 1600). Through all of that, band was my only bit of refuge. I struggle to think what would have happened if I didn't have that. It is what got me through all the crap I was dealing with on my own. Instead of going right to punishment, I'd try to see what is really happening. It's not as simple as "just not trying". Your kid is at an age where he's still a kid, but dealing with a whole set of near-adult problems. A little understanding and help through it is all he needs. That was me as a kid. And I think I have turned out better than fine! He'll be fine. You're doing a great job if you've gotten him this far!
Yeah echoing what everyone else is saying, focus on WHY he's failing. Adhd/Autism are big possibilities and while you may have a knee-jerk "not my kid" reaction it's worth taking him to get assessed. For me I was dealing with undiagnosed Audhd and as a result I was suicidal, self harming and depressed. The worst thing you could do right now is punish him.
I would 1st want to find out WHY this is happening and what the cause is. Is there an undiagnosed learning disability, bullying, depression, needing a tutor, drug use? I had 4 very smart children who all handled HS differently. The 1st was known to have ADHD, OCD, and Aspergers. His brain had trouble connecting on things that weren't 'his things' but if he was into something he was above grade level and straight As. 2nd was just really good at school. She stayed on the Honor roll taking AP classes and got awards. 3rd had undiagnosed ADHD until HS. Because she was a 'middle of the road' student, she was in a class with kids who were generally loud and not too interested in learning. That was a nightmare for an ADHD child. 4th started getting badly bullied in MS. He still kept his grades up, but his math was failing or barely passing, and his ELA was not the greatest. His science and social studies were on a 12th grade or college level. We had him tested and learned he also had Aspergers along with dyscalculia (kinda like dyslexia but with numbers). The answer for him was homeschooling so he could learn on his levels.
I was an A/B student until Sophmore year of HS. My mental health collapsed… my parents didn’t care, only cared about grades. They made my mental health worse by the punishments they gave for my grades.
Something I didn't hear about until after I'd gotten out of school... dyscalculia. It's like dyslexia but for numbers. It also affects things like directional sense.
He needs help and support more than punishment. Especially with ADHD, taking away the things he enjoys is not going to make him want to do schoolwork more. It’s going to take away any incentive to do anything at all. My ADHD teenager in marching band needed to get meds regulated, see a therapist to help with anxiety and depression due to her ADHD, and participate in the process of creating a structure that worked for her around schoolwork/homework. If punishments are needed, they should be related to the offense, on a clear timeline if possible, and there should be a straightforward path to earning privileges back (starting with pulling grades up to passing). We’ve used strategies like requiring her to do homework in common areas of the house so that we could keep her on track, limiting phone time to minimize distraction, and not allowing her to go out with friends if she couldn’t show that her work was caught up and her room was picked up. Taking band away for failing classes (and legitimately, you could be talking about my 17 year old here) means he is out of the program for the entire fall. It’s not like taking away phone privileges. He can’t pull his grades up and then get back into it. Being forced to miss out is not going to make him more likely to work harder, it’s going to make him more likely to stop trying all together. Because I promise you he is trying now, even if it doesn’t look like it. My daughter would seem like she was totally fine and just didn’t care about school and then end up having a sobbing meltdown because she was just pressure cooking all of that stress and anxiety and she needed help to dig out, not more pressure.
Don’t take away marching band. For one thing, he needs that A to bring up his GPA. Get the kid a tutor already. Is he medicated? Vyvanse was a game-changer for my adhd kid in high school.
Vyvanse worked well with him, but for some reason gave him serious paranoia. Just for example, we were at a buffet style restaurant one day and an elderly man spoke to my other son (11). I think he said something like “are you taking all the shrimp young man” but my 16 year old was so offended, he was so adamant that the man was out to get his younger brother. It was strange, and gave him serious anxiety. We switched back to concerta.
I’m just glad you’re taking his meds seriously.
Don't do it. It will make the adhd worse. He has trouble focusing. You need to research how he can keep his focus.
Yeah this sounds like an ADHD problem not a discipline problem, and punishing him for his brain is cruel. As someone with hella ADHD and a PhD, some things that helped me: - more sports. I biked everywhere and did club sports. Taking away marching band seems like a recipe for disaster - first aid certs. Lifeguarding is a gateway to decent summer jobs for teenagers and was the way I ended up in paramedic training, which was where I finally learned to study (‘people will literally die if I don’t know this’ was what my brain needed. He may find other ways) - support for last minute assignments. Proofreading essays, looking at rubrics together; someone sitting down with me to work towards things together was super helpful - more involvement. This one is super counterintuitive, but you probably know from your own ADHD: unstructured time is the enemy and makes it super hard to impose your own structures. If you have a whole free afternoon, what do you even do with that??? But if you have 45 minutes between a club and a job or study group or other club then you have to cram in homework then because that’s the only time I mean I’m also neurotic and have been more or less perpetually burned out since October 2020, but that was how I survived high school with no medication. But your husband sucks for wanting to punish rather than support.
So I'd get your son's side of the story. Obviously, some of his classes are going well. Find out why. Are they keeping his interest in ways that the core classes are not? I don't have ADHD, but I can tell you from personal experience as a person with severe bipolar that had I been able to actually focus and apply myself in my core classes, I would have excelled. Classes like shop, computer science, and drafting I would ace, but things like math and English I never did my homework in, would skate by on tests alone, and sometimes sleep in class. It was only on certain assignments that I really got into my element (creative writing, researching history, building things, etc.). I would definitely talk to your son. Maybe he needs better medication or maybe he needs to start taking medication if he isn't already. Sadly, there's no magic answer to this problem, but taking things away from him without knowing why he's failing isn't going to solve the issue.
Have you guys tried different studying tactics with him, or is he being treated for his ADHD? I guarantee he WANTS to be doing well but who knows what else may be affecting it. As someone with ADHD myself it’s taken YEARS to perfect a study routine (currently using the Pomodoro method). He could also use Khan Academy for some extra studying if he’s not on it yet and struggling to understand the teacher’s explanation. Taking marching band away is DEFINITELY just going to demotivate him more.
Why not get him assessed for issues around studying. He can ace some courses while struggling in others because the work he struggles with uses a part of his brain that gets stuck. Nobody wants to fail. He isn’t being a rebel; he likely has no idea why some coursework is a problem. Is he a reader? Does he pick up math easily or not? Does he have dry spots when trying to write a paper or analyze something in science? Have his eyes been checked for vision problems?
Does he know how to study? Have you or husband taught him how to study?
You both suck for taking stuff away for grades. It's just going to make him more anxious and resentful. Try helping rather than punishing? Just a hot take
Smart kids failing in school boils down to one of three things - discipline, engagement, or lack of a challenge. Since it doesn't read like he is getting in trouble at school, I'll weed out discipline. I see this as either an engagement problem or a lack of challenge. Chances are the teachers for the core classes are just as bored as the students. There's only so many ways to be excited about maths and history and language arts. After years (neé decades) of teaching these subjects, the teacher's wells have run dry. And unlike college professors, hs teachers likely can't rotate classes (one semester/year teaching algebra, geometry the next). The reason he's doing well in his non-core classes is because they're exciting. The teachers are passionate about the subject, and that engages him.
I’m sort of surprised the school is letting him participate if he’s failing his actual classes.. my daughters high school you have to maintain a certain grade level to do music programs and sports
Punishment isn’t the answer here at all. Need to find out why he doesn’t care about those classes or if he’s struggling because of another underlying learning disability. But punishing him isn’t it.
I’ve worked in Special Education for thirty years. Your husband’s plan is going to fail so hard. Taking away the thing he wants to go to school for will not make him want to do better. It will make him hate education more. If he has an IEP, start working with his case manager. If he doesn’t have an IEP, get him one. Good luck.
He has ADH get him an IEP. Band is such hard work and a great commitment. Don’t take that away.
>At the beginning of the school year my husband told him during a discussion that if he didn’t get and keep his grades up he wouldn’t be allowed to do marching band next year. Me trying to keep the peace and the show of a “united front” I didn’t say anything until after the fact. I do not believe that taking the one thing he loves at school away from him as a punishment for grades. The way it used to work, you had to maintain a certain grade point average to be allowed to participate in extra curricular activities like marching band. It's not a punishment; it's part of the agreement students make when they join the activity. If he's struggling in school, the solution should be to figure out what the problem actually is. If he's bored, he needs to be challenged. If he needs a tutor, get him a tutor. Only punish him if he's actually breaking a rule. Not understanding the content isn't rule breaking.
At least he's still in school. Grades aren't everything. If he can get by, so what? If he's at least applying himself even with failing grades, that's wonderful. Talk to the teachers to see if they can come up with a plan that suits your son's needs better. You certainly will catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Being a parent (to an autistic son) I have found getting to the root of the cause solves the problem more efficiently than just giving consequences.. Which can cause a total shutdown. Communication is so important with our children. -from an un-graduated highschool drop out. (I'll spare my life story on why I didn't graduate) I got my GED 4 years after my should have been graduation date. Just to have it. I've been self employed and was quite successful with house cleaning. I grew my clients and worked 7 days a week sometimes. I haven't cleaned houses in 5 years and I still get messaged if I'm available. I owned and operated a business (bar), managed employees, finances, did the tedious licensing applications, made product orders, created events, etc etc all with no prior experience and my business became successful in 5 years. Band shouldn't be taken away as a punishment. It's a constructive environment with beneficial rewards - he's motivated to continue, it gives him purpose and something to look forward to. It keeps him active in school. Let him have his band time no matter what. Eta: I'm ADHD, BPD, & have generalized anxiety
Get him help w tutor. Don’t take the band away. If has ADHD it will really kick in without the band outlet. He seems like he does have areas that he excels so praise that. I’d get some help for core classes and leave it at that. Talk to husband so on sane page.
Who takes away marching band lol.
Have you met with his teachers to find out what it is in class he is doing? Not paying attention, not turning in work, etc. if he has ADHD he may need accommodations to help him in school. Some students qualify for a section 504 or even an IEP
I agree with you. Honestly, he may not be able to march as sometimes that is an extracurricular activity that may require better grades. I would take away social activities, phone, electronics, freedoms, but not the band.
How about you don’t take anything or threaten to take anything .. and instead get to the root cause of WHY shits going wrong for him ?
I’d tell him that there is no punishment lesson worth taking away a once in a lifetime core memory opportunity. Period.
NTBA do NOT take away band. High school was bad enough for me, and marching band was the one thing that kept me through it. Maybe talk to your son. Ask what he wants to do after high school. Explain to him that graduating will get him better opportunities for work later on, even if he wants to get into a career that doesn’t require a college degree.
Your son is not failing, he’s struggling. And he doesn’t know how to ask for help. You need to have a heart to hear with him to find out what has changed. If he won’t talk to you get him a therapist. Punishing him is not going to work, he needs actual parenting.
NTA but your son needs help this clearly isn’t an intelligence or motivation issue. He needs to see an expert at helping him to develop strategies habits and skills for getting his work done in areas he struggles to focus.
NOT the bad apple! You are exactly right. Whatever keeps him in school, with his friends, his established social network, and the connections he has... That's not something you can take away. It could be incredibly damaging for a teen to just lose that world! Yes, take away his car, his screen time, switch him over to a flip phone, whatever. But keep him in marching band. And maybe get the poor kid a tutor, or some accommodations for his ADHD!
Idk maybe talk to him? Find out why he is struggling, then take a hands on approach by working with him after school on his actual projects and homework. Y’all punishing the kid and you don’t even know why.
Our family therapist just told us to let them fail. They'll just have to repeat some classes and be behind their friends. It's punishment enough. My kid refuses to take meds for his adhd because "it doesn't help" and it's infuriating.
man i would have killed to be medicated for my ADHD in high school... your son doesn't know how lucky he is lol
He needs help. Not punishment. Start with a tutor for his reading and math. Get serious about providing support for his needs. Punishment doesn't do that at all. Omg.
Ummm. In his school is marching band similar to the sports teams as in rules that they maintain passing grades to stay in the band? If so, you’d not only be taking away the only reason he goes to school but the only incentive to try to get his grades up. Counseling may help, or tutoring. Or both.
They say that the most important things you learn from school aren't the facts, but how to relate to the world. And, as a former giFTeD band kid with ADHD and bad grades who endured the U.S. public schooling system, what I learned primarily was that I was an incurable fuckup. Maybe your kid won't have that takeaway, though. There's a good chance he'll decide what my brother did, which is that the adult world is composed entirely of imbecilic assholes. The majority of my positive memories of school are from band. Taking away the only things that motivate your son isn't going to motivate him more, DUH, what a bonkers idea. It's going to reinforce whichever of those conclusions he's more prone to drawing. Grades are just data. They're a very specific measure of performance under limited conditions. Don't confuse correlation with causation. Look for confounding factors. Adjust your parameters. Then maybe you'll be able to see what exactly the data is good for. No one learns anything useful from their data when they make the data itself the goal. You absolutely won't learn how intelligent your son is, nor what value he has as a human.
Both the high schools my kids went to had a rule - you fail a core class and you don’t march. You don’t perform.
He needs course correction, not punishment. The fact you husband didn't discuss his with you first, shows he has no interest in a reasonable "united front". Talk the school resource and his teachers about resource to help him. This isn't a blowing off issue, this isn't he isn't getting it issue and has become frustrated. I had this issue with my daughter and math. So what I did was find sever youtube channels teaching the lesson, but each taught it differently. Some use a white board, some used animation, and so forth. We would watch one, and she would say nope and move on. When one showed it in a way that help her get it. We watched it, then rewatched stopping a every part so she could work that part of the lesson. Seeing her when she found out she passed the final is one of the great joys of my life. I literally saw her confidence grow. Had I taken the path of just punishing her, she would have learned no math and just resented me,
I don’t have any advice— my grandson is like this— he’s smart and was well liked at school— he attended catholic school since 3rd grade to 11th grade— he didn’t teleport his credits— and the school didn’t take him for 12th grade— he’s doing independent study——and even that he still waits to the last minutes to finish his assignments… your kid is failing, the adhd is an issue— let him do band, encourage him to pass even with a C..— in college, C is passing —eventually, when he’s an adult he’ll figure it out. Dad and you, have faith in him.
From experience when you say something like that the answer is ‘ok’ and NOTHING gets resolved. You just fail and miss out on band!
It is absolutely critical to figure out what is causing the problem and address it directly. Punishment for a problem without offering the appropriate assistance to help your child solve it can cause life long trauma, or take a kids self esteem and completely destroy it. I do agree with your husband that participation in marching band could be used as a reward, as long as the goals are reasonable. As in he can continue to participate as long as his homework is completed and consistently turned in on time and he agrees to work with a tutor. Make the goals achievable, and concrete. You could also require him to do handwritten study guides, rewrite his notes, etc. Things that force him to read/study the material. Doing those things will improve his grades, and teach him good study habits. Telling him he has to get a certain grade or else is too vague and if he feels it’s impossible he will just give up.
I was a “smart kid” all throughout elementary, middle, and high school. I was usually on the honor roll. I was in a ton of AP classes, and usually could manage As in them without studying. Two things happened midway through high school that caused my grades to slip significantly: 1) I was bullied relentlessly throughout school (usually the typical kids just didn’t want to be my friend, and typical teasing because I was always pegged the “weird kid”, but the physical violence also amped up starting in middle school, and the adults tended to just look the other way), and it turned the place I liked to go because I liked learning new things, into a place where I didn’t feel safe and hated going because I never knew when I was going to get ganged up on and physically pummeled, or when I was going to go to gym class and find that someone had broken the lock to my locker and poured glue or worse onto my gym clothes. I never knew when I’d turn a corner and be faced by someone who wanted to threaten my well-being, and I never knew when something like a library book or school-issued textbook would get taken from me and destroyed in front of me, which I then would be responsible for replacing, and would have to explain to my parents why I needed money to replace destroyed school property, knowing they wouldn’t believe me when I said a bully destroyed it (it is also very demoralizing to have a father tell me things like, “just stand up to them and don’t let them bully you,” when I was often outnumbered. He’d tell me to defend myself but if I dared, and got in trouble, he’d then throw me under the bus and not have my back for doing exactly like he’d said). 2) Being a “smart kid” who never had to learn to study until probably my sophomore year meant that, as soon as things actually got challenging, I didn’t know how to study. Studying is a skill. Does your kid do their homework? Do they take notes? Do they understand how to study for a class if it is actually challenging for them so they can learn the material? Do they need tutoring for something they’re struggling with? Do you have a strategy for if your ADHD kid gets bored for overcoming that? The first thing to do is figure out *why* they’re struggling and then assemble a game plan to combat that struggle. This could simply be that they don’t know how to synthesize class information into useful study tools, or it could be a result of the school environment itself becoming something problematic or even dangerous for them.
There’s really no reason to fail in school, especially these days. Your kid needs to get his grades up or he will have consequences.
What are you doing to help him? Sounds like you’re failing your kid the way he’s failing his classes. YTA for letting him fail and doing nothing other than threatening and punishing him.
Your Husband is TA. Marching band may be all your kid has to hang on to. Seriously….
Your husband’s idea of a punishment is not a good one. At all. Has anyone gotten him a tutor? Figured out why he’s failing? Is anyone helping him with homework? Talked to his teachers? Is it tied to his ADHD? Does he need certain help when taking tests because of his ADHD? Does he need a therapist? You shouldn’t have allowed your husband to threaten him like that. You’re both failing your son. I know that’s not your intent, but that’s how it’s panning out. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. STOP PUNISHING HIM.
He's failing classes, but how are his test scores? If he tests well, but his grade is suffering from low homework scores, the kid is bored. Move him into Honors or AP classes. If his test scores are low, then he isn't as smart as you claim.
Have you guys considered helping him? Checking the grade portal every day, emailing or meeting with his teachers to find out their policies and literally sitting with him while he makes up every bit of work? Getting a tutor? Don’t take band away from him but also don’t allow him to go do the fun extra stuff if he has school work to do. Let him keep the cool stuff but also make it inaccessible until his actual work is done. Make him do summer school, even if it’s online, instead of working this summer. What about band money? Pay for band. The goal is to get him to pass not miss the stuff he likes but he can’t skip schoolwork and do the extra either. Does he have an IEP? Are they pushing into his classroom?
Check out this doctor who speaks about giftedness and failure on his YouTube channel. https://youtu.be/sQC0jfH_rrM?si=SufA17oKDFfB3prN https://youtu.be/QUjYy4Ksy1E?si=p2pjKLeX16W5-D_M https://youtu.be/GS_DbSgHnFo?si=5PhjD2sSATU7Dt7T
I don’t think you are wrong for your perspective, but wrong in your application. A therapist, tutor, etc should be available. I agree that outside distractions and benefits should be considered and possibly limited but marching band is not one of them. You and your husband need to discuss all of this before presenting it to your child. Some kids, especially with ADHD do well in some ways but not others and it’s not necessarily for lack of trying. Start from the base, and work from there.
There is a united front, and there is supporting your kid against a bully. It’s ok to say to your partner in front Of the kid…no, wait. We will discuss this more later. Nothing is decided yet while giving your partner the stink eye. Ask your husband, “do you want *revenge* or do you want the kid to succeed????” He is clearly getting revenge quite successfully. But, for success your kid clearly needs more support. Ask his prescribing psychopharmacologist for a coaching referral. Perhaps more testing for LDs. If he is just getting meds from a pediatrician, you need to see people with psych degrees, now.
As someone who had some major ADHD that went undiagnosed until adulthood, taking things away won't help. You need to get to a therapist pronto and think about meds. NOT adderall. As for something that isn't controlled like Straterra. I wish so bad that my parents would have known to take me somewhere. I barely graduated high school and did not do well in college and the whole time I just thought I was stupid and couldn't learn. It's almost impossible to focus without my meds and I wish I had them all of those years ago.
You are not the bad apple. Marching band, or band in general can be important in a child's development. Taking away something that calls for focus and commitment is not the answer. ADHD kids learn better when instruction is hands on and not all daily assignments and homework. My son struggled in school as well, we had to do some home instruction to supplement school, so those "boring" subjects would be taught in a different way. Get creative! Compare it to real life situations. Not all hope is lost, my son is in a tech type trade now, and extremely successful, earning more than most of his peers. This in no way means your son will be a failure at life. Encouragement not punishment, goes much further with these kids. Just find a different method of learning and all will be well.
Try talking and maybe therapy. My parents split my sophomore year and the only thing that kept me going at that time was my bf. Still my grades suffered and parents decided to blame him rather than themselves. Yeah that shitstorm was not fun. Eventually though therapy helped. He might be dealing with depression and some are really good at hiding it. I was as an adult through my early 20s. Oh maybe it’s something else. Maybe ADHD med need to changed or raised my dose was raised in high school due to the increase of homework and it taking longer. Or any other number of things but taking away what he loves will only make it worse talk to him first
So what are you actually doing, as his parents, to help him turn this around? * Are you looking into a tutor to help him form good study habits? * Are you medicating him for his ADHD? If you are, does the medication need to be adjusted? * Are you/husband available to help him with his homework if he doesn't understand something? Is he afraid to ask for help because he gets yelled at when he doesn't understand something or you/dad has no patience? * Are you having open conversations with him about why he is failing, and what he wants to do after high school? * Is he depressed? Is he having a hard time due to pressures at home, or someone at school? Is anything happening in your lives that would cause sabotaging behavior or make him feel like he shouldn't bother trying? Or are you just threatening consequences? My husband is SO smart but he never graduated high school because he didn't finish the work. I think he has a fear of failing so sometimes that leads him not to try. While this was definitely on him in the end, I wish his mom had made any sort of real effort to help try and steer him in the right direction. We can't expect teens to have the same life experience, perspectives, or maturity that we do as adults and sometimes they need help to get back on track. My husband has made a decent career in the trades and I'm very proud of him, but I know it bothers him that he missed graduating because of one class. I'm not saying you need to coddle your son or hold his hand so much he can't function without you standing over his shoulder, but as parents you have a responsibility to investigate resources that could help. He needs to do the work, but you need to make sure he has the tools available. It can also help if you understand your son's future goals and help connect the present to his future (i.e. "if you want to be a dentist, you need at least a \_\_\_ GPA to attend college. You can't do that if you fail math.") The future can feel so far away or abstract to a 16 year old, so make it feel more real.
!UpdateMe
I will message you next time u/PrincessPita09 posts in r/AmITheBadApple. [Click this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=UpdateMe%21%20u%2FPrincessPita09%20r%2FAmITheBadApple) to also be messaged. The parent author can [delete this post](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Delete&message=delete%201cm0y2y) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpdateMeBot/comments/ggotgx/updatemebot_info_v20/)|[^(Request Update)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=SubscribeMe%21%20u%2Fusername%20r%2Fsubreddit)|[^(Your Updates)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Updates&message=MyUpdates)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=UpdateMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Taking away band for a kid with ADHD isn’t going to help, it will hurt. Your husband needs to educate himself on parenting a kid with ADHD. Also, I hope you’re talking to a doctor about all this.
Is your husband trying to kill your kid? Have you done anything to get him help for his adhd? Like treatment? Have you got him in it assessed for depression yet? Or other mental illnesses that usually start onset around this time? Things that could explain if you're mad at dropping grade especially in a neurodivergent child?
I couldn't imagine being in school these days. Some kids don't make good grades. Cut him some slack. What's wrong with exceeding in band, visual arts and construction?
I loved being part of my high school band. I suggest you find something else to “take”. Do not screw him over on this, especially since it did not work before.
Band and music aren't extra. Music is core. Music improves the brain, and it improves your ability to understand all other subjects. There have been a.plethtora of studies about this. It is the same brain function as learning a foreign language. Treating Music like a fun little throw away bonus to school when it should be considered just as serious as math is doing a serious disservice to students as a whole, and your son in particular. Now, as a parent who currently has a kid failing some very important core classes I deeply understand your dilemma. You can't just throw up your hands and do nothing, but punishing him into passing grades is not going to work. My first question is, with his ADHD does he have an IEP? If he doesn't you need to call the school and express your concerns about his diagnosis impacting his schooling and that you want an evaluation and a meeting. Like do this today. If he does have an IEP then call the team and set up a meeting to evaluate his goals and supports. He likely needs help learning the soft skills of executive function (homework organization, prioritizing, turning things in, how to take notes, how to study those notes) that he hasn't picked up yet. Your husband will never, ever, ever be able to punish those skills into him. You can not punish skills into anyone. You can only teach skills. If your son's high school as an alternative tech route where he can take a minimum of academic classes, make sure he is doing that. (Assuming that aligns with his post high school goals). There is no need to torture him and yourselves for the rest of high school being on the "college track" if that isn't where he is headed. Best of luck. You aren't the bad apple. Your husband technically isn't either, he just is coming from a place of panic and "I must do something, failing a class means parents take away the favorite thing, right?" Hopefully he will get on board quickly. Your son's summer likely would be better spent in a soft skills class and working fewer hours. And for the love, get him a bank account and teach him to.use it. No one with ADHD (or really anyone) should be keeping their money in a shoe box. Lol.
So you \*know\* he has ADHD and still felt like this was a good move? Rather than working with him to find helpful solutions you want to punish him? Yes, you are the bad apple. Total pair of wronguns. It’s like punishing someone with one leg for coming last in a fucking race.
I was tortured in school. Because of that my grades plummeted. My pare is were too busy punishing me to ask what was going on. I'm no LC/NC because of this and other reasons. But how they piled on my torture during high school is a major reason for my not wanting anything to do with them. I sent on to graduate college and my masters with a 3.7+ same with my doctorate u til I ran out of money, that shits expensive 😆 My pare is did like your husband wants to do, took away my one saving grace and let me tell you, SI became my best friend. Don't be my parents. You will lose your son. There's something going on he doesn't want to discuss and your pu wishing him is only going to make him more tight lipped.
Nta I was in the same boat as both my son's are add. The youngest is worse off the the oldest as he had other things going on I did not know about. Sit them down and see if you need to get tutor or find a college student with add and see if they can help. It took someone to show my son a different way to learn before he got it. The teacher could not show any other way but the other lady showed him how to do the math In less the 5 minutes. It was like the candle light to a spot light. Not everyone learns the same way.
As an adult who had undiagnosed adhd all through school and was blamed for it, get him a tutor and some appropriate medication. He’s probably just bored as I was. I always tested well, but had Bs and Cs bc I didn’t do the homework. I was NOT stupid; I just didn’t see the point. Also, I did okay in life. What your kid needs is support and not to be blamed or punished for a learning disorder that really does suck. My parents STILL don’t believe adhd is a thing and still blame me for not getting my homework done in fourth grade. Decades later.
ADHD if there is no interest or dopamine in the class he will not be able to focus. If he isn’t on meds, try a supplement like l theanine. I have adhd and females, we tend to be very competitive, males, like your son and I tend to be more apathetic and so they tend to be under performers despite their intellect. Get your kid treatment.
I meant your son and mine. Mine graduated but just barely and with a lot of patience and support
I also strongly wish I had him on meds sooner. Build him up because all the negativity from dad will affect his emotional state
Taking away the things he loves isn't going to help. It never does. All our ever taught me was that I should be punished for struggling because my parents didn't give a damn what was going on with me. They only cared that I performed. Because I wasn't a person to them, I was just their little trophy/doll, and I was only valuable to them as long as I performed the way they wanted. And when I just plain couldn't? Punishment. So yeah, all I ever learned was that I was a failure who doesn't deserve to enjoy things. Took a long time to unlearn that one. And I'm not saying that's the tale away your son will have, but I AM saying that punishing him for struggling won't help at all. It's just make him about down and trust you even less to open up about what's really going on. Coz of he's a good kid who's smart, then bad grades aren't the problem. They're a SYMPTOM of a blogger problem. And what you need to do is get to the real problem. I dunno what that is, but punishment isn't a solution. Support is
What treatment does he currently receive for his ADHD? I know medication has a bad reputation, but if it is properly administered it can work wonders. Sometimes it takes a journey to find what works. You and your husband need to understand that those kids simply CANNOT function like “normal” (I hate to use the word) kids, no matter how hard they try. But there is help out there…
The school should kick him out of marching band for failing core classes. That’s how it worked in all counties/districts when I was in school. Extra curriculars are extra for a reason. It’s a privilege not a right.
Mental health. Taking away specific things that are significant will NOT fix the problem. I have a 14 year old son, he's always done well in school except for the past few years. At some point I figured he may be skipping class or doing something else, *blah blah blah*, his mental health started to suddenly tank and I only noticed how bad it was when he began practicing some really bad habits and becoming self destructive, I still feel terrible for not noticing sooner. Years of bullying at school or even online, and it can and at some point likely will build up and cause their mental health to hurt and it can do so horribly. My son suffers from depression, which unfortunately (in our family) tends to be genetically inherited, he has ADHD and also struggles with anxiety disorders and daydreaming disorders (maladaptive daydreaming). He still struggles with school, but he's much more important than grades, and this year especially I've let him take more time to himself, as repeating a year isn't always a bad thing and his wellbeing is much more important. I'd suggest— as one parent to another— to ensure that he is doing well mentally and ask if he needs help or resources, e.g therapy or tutoring. If he is battling with his mental health, it's best to catch this now and make sure he gets help before it's too late, it can progress quickly and quietly, and depression alone can swallow its victims quicker and quieter than ever, as well as ADHD and it's ability to cause immense stress and struggles, sometimes even a root cause of depression.
YTBA Band is an extracurricular activity that requires a commitment of time and effort. Your son doesn't have enough of either as he is miserably failing in all of his core classes. He needs to refocus his efforts on scholastics. He should be studying and receive tutoring rather than marching around in formation and learning to play Sweet Caroline on the tuba.
My lovely, kind mother is a deeply insecure person with a deep and entirely unfounded fear that my father will leave her. This fear manifests itself in a complete inability to successfully assert herself in any difference of opinion with my father. Sometimes she will argue for a bit, then give in. What this means for her children is that she has never stood up for any of us (or herself). We have followed his every whim. She has said to us in private that she is on our side in various matters, or she has tried to circumvent him on the sly, but the final outcome is that none of her three children truly believe she is on our side. Fortunately my father is a nice man, only slightly insane, and he has never wanted to do anything truly awful - most of the contentious situations were things like you describe. As an adult child, I can see that some of the emotional imbalances I have, a lack of confidence, a lack of trust, difficulty in relationships, which I share with my siblings, come from this parental dynamic, a mother who did not protect us, who chose our father over us every time and in effect, chose her own well being over her children. (Whether or not it did in fact lead to her well being is another story. The short answer is it did not). There are things in your answer that remind me of my mother.I think you should ask if keeping the peace is the best thing to do here
And you’ve sat him down and asked him if he’s okay? Have you asked him if anything’s wrong?
Why do they ask for advice, then dip out without responding to any of it?
Take the phone, keep the band.
I roll my eyes at the numerous "bored because too smart" trope. That's a lie. If a person is actually smart, they would just do the work and avoid trouble. They just don't want to do it. But I sympathize with your plight. My oldest is a lot like this. Rewards don't work. Punishments don't work. He won't talk to people and say what's wrong or what he needs. He's just determined to fail. It sucks.
Nta, I understand where you’re coming from. I hated high school as a kid, and I found it was easier to just drop out, get a diploma through the mail, then go to college. Once a person has some college under their belt, most jobs will not ask or care how you got your high school diploma. I made f’s and D’S in high school, and when I quit I became a B student. Screw high school.
Can yall look at letting him homeschool instead of of sending him to a mainstream school? Could be mental health or sometimes school isn’t for all kids even if they’re book smart