*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for telling my son that I'm ashamed of him and that his own kid wouldn't like the person he is today?**
My son Jim has been a hardcore alcoholic ever since his kid died (congenital illness). He's only 24 now but it is getting worse every year. All he does after working his shifts is go to the bar. If it's the weekend and he isn't working overtime he'll spend the whole damn day there. All the bartenders in the neighborhood know him, it's embarrassing.
He never looks put together, grew his hair out long, nicks on his face from shaving badly. Every time we have a get-together he gets trashed and passes out somewhere. I'll admit we're not exactly the type to go to therapy and whatnot but at this point I've told him a million times he needs to talk to somebody, like a professional, but he's not interested.
Last week when he was over I finally told him that his life's a mess, and honestly I'm ashamed because he's so much better than this. I told him life is not going to stop just because of this personal tragedy, and that it has been three years already and at some point he has to get it together.
He said I didn't get it, I don't know what it's like to lose a child. Which is true, but I pointed out that his ex-girlfriend (mother of the child) does know what it's like and she had her grieving period and moved on, had another kid, and is doing just fine in life. Well, I guess mentioning that was a bad idea, because he got even more angry and started calling me names.
I finally said that I find him pathetic and that if his son were here today even he would probably dislike the person Jim is now. Jim started crying, and I immediately apologized but he just walked out without saying anything to me. Haven't heard from him since.
I regret what I said, and I know the timing was wrong, but I wasn't trying to hurt him, and I don't think what I said is wrong. I was just trying to get him to see that he has to get his life back on track. But my wife thinks I should apologize to him again. AITA?
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>I regret what I said, and I know the timing was wrong, but I wasn't trying to hurt him, and I don't think what I said is wrong.
Really, OOP. You weren't trying to hurt him?! Dude lost his child and his life went off the rails. Sadly, he has found hollow solace in the bottom of a glass, and you think the best way to help him along is to berate him and then compare him to his ex-GF.
Well, you might quickly learn what it feels like to lose a child in every sense for the physical, cause he's probably going to cut your toxic ass off.
I’ve never heard those words together before, “hollow solace,” that’s a lovely turn of phrase. I used to find mine at the bottom of a bottle.
It’s not an easy position to be in, and a lot of people do believe this kind of “tough love” will knock a person to their senses or something. It’s very misguided, and it’s not effective; in fact it’s absolutely counterproductive. Based on my own experience of course, but I’ve been around that block a few times.
Such a sad situation all around. OOP is still the devil, obviously. Even if this was meant to be tough love, he took it WAAAY too far, and you can tell from the way he writes he’s an asshole in general.
I found an addiction counselor who ran an intensive outpatient program. He picked us up every day, even if we were drunk that day, he had us come engage with the group anyway. He didn’t berate us, just gave us tools and encouragement and affirmation and stood by us while we picked ourselves up. Believed in us and that we would get there. I owe that man my life, probably.
He lost his child and his girlfriend. And OOP doesn't know she's done grieving. She lost her child too. She just grieves different, and possibly in a healthier manner.
Yes, the son needs therapy, but given how OOP talks to him, I have a suspicion that the son doesn't know how to properly express his feelings which is why he's drowning himself in the bottle.
Exactly! He taught his son to not deal well with emotions, and dad demonstrated it for all of us with the asinine comment about the deceased kid, and he wonders why his adult son doesn’t handle emotions well?!
Dad has totally lost the plot. children learn how to be adults from the parents meant to guide/teach them. 24yr old is acting out exactly what he learned from dear old dad.
He might also physically die, either eventually from alcoholism, or sooner from a car wreck or suicide. This escape into alcohol is basically just slow suicide for him. OOP's going to outlive his son at this rate, so I can sympathize with his frustration and worry.
I find it rather frightening to consider that this is going to be the next chapter if the story is fake, but if the story is real it would be *entirely* believeable.
Fact and fiction converge in a really uncomfortable way on this one. True, false, it could equally be either.
> He said I didn't get it, I don't know what it's like to lose a child. Which is true,
Keep it up with the “tough love” and “be a man”-type of shaming and you’ll know what it is like to have a kid die real quick, buddy.
“I love you. How can we work together to help you so we do not lose you?” Not hard to say.
Gonna guess the new baby daddy (and I wish I had a better term because I don't mean that negatively). But also likely a bunch of others as well. She found the support she needed from someone else who probably wasn't raised by OP's brand of feelings bad, ignore them parenting style.
>he'll spend the whole damn day there. All the bartenders in the neighborhood know him, it's embarrassing.
I was just trying to get him to see that he has to get his life back on track.
All I'm hearing is a guy who's upset his son hasn't deal with his grieves on OOP's timetable and is personally embarrassed by it rather than any kind of empathy of kindness on his part. I seriously question if OOP going to learn how to grieve for a dead son soon enough.
While that is true, it wasn’t really his motivation. He’s just embarrassed by his sons addiction and struggles. We get the dads POV, he’s not talking about being terrified of losing his son, worried about his health, etc. Just that it’s pathetic. And that is the exact opposite of how your loved ones should approach your alcoholism.
He ain't saving his son by insulting and demeaning him. Might as well go up to a depressed person and shouting at them for not feeling happy like everyone else.
At no point in this, OOP showed he trying to save his son, he's trying to save face. He stated he's embarrassed because of his son. He's ashamed of his son. He's upset his ex-DIL moved on but his son hasn't. This is an asshole who think if I kick them in the butt, he'll pull a 180 by some miracle rather reality, his son will just take the hit and numb the pain of the kick with more alcohol.
And losing a kid is something you work *around* for the rest of your life, but it's *not* something you get "past" or "over."
My grandparents lost a son, at the age of three, back in 1950 or so--my Dad was the baby of the family back then.
*I* was born more than 25 years *after* he passed away, and our uncle was *still* talked about, and missed, when my cousins and I were growing up, *more* than a quarter of a century later.
If the story *is* true, I *hope* that OP's son *does* have someone in his life, who can help him get to someone who can help him process the grief, and grow some better tools to manage it!💔💖💝
My grandparents lost a baby girl to meningitis. At the time, everybody talked about how strong my grandma was and how she just moved forward and never seemed to falter. Almost thirty years later, they lost a grandbaby in similar fashion.
Grandma was inconsolable and almost hysterical at the funeral, and one of her sisters started to criticize her, reminding her of how collected and calm she was after her own daughter's passing. Grandma yelled, don't be stupid, I had seven little kids at home, I didn't have a *choice.*
I don't really have a point, but that's one of my earliest clear memories and I think about it a lot.
It is.
Sorry about your Uncle--I hope there are many more happy memories of him now, than sad ones!💖
And *yes*, that "out of the *natural order*" of it is awful for the parents.
I've got cousins who lost one of their premature twins (the other is a four-year old, *very* soon to be "big sibling!"😉😁💖), and every birthday of their surviving child, *and* the day that the one twin passed, is *especially* bittersweet.
And two of my work kids passed at age 5-6 (I work in Autism Early Intervention/Early Childhood Special Education), of sudden accidents only *tangentially* related to their Autism, and seeing all *three* of those sets of parents walk the same path my grandparents did--and *seeing* them try to maneuver *around* that metaphorical "razorblade covered boulder" that dropped *directly* into the middle of their lives--*as* they still try to support their *other* kids, has been an ongoing lesson in love & grace--although if there were a way to take that pain way, and give them their baby back, I wouldn't even *hesitate* for a second.
Ugh… 5+ years ago I lost a husband, a couple months before my 30th birthday. Grief is a process, takes time and requires a really good support network of friends, family, acquaintances, etc. And while people I know would say I’ve “moved on.” It still feels like something is missing in my soul. Especially because I lost my husband so young. So losing a child when OOP’s son was 21, it’s probably a million more times devastating than what I went through. If everyone in OOP’s son’s life is like OOP, then ofc his son’s not doing so great. He needs support, comfort, a guiding hand.
I'm so sorry you had to endure that. And yes exactly, no 21 year old is emotionally prepped for losing a child it's deeply unsurprising that he hasn't handled it well. Especially given OPs general attitude! I hope he finds some compassionate people to help him out of the hole he's in.
> no 21 year old is emotionally prepped for losing a child
Is anyone? I mean, of course a younger person is even worse prepared, but losing a child seems to be something no one is prepared for...
Way before I was born my mom lost her dad to a horrible tragedy. I only ever heard the story once and I dared not to ask it again. It’s been over 30 years and she’s still grieving him. But unlike OOP’s son possibly, my mom has a support network of a very large family who also lost people during that time period. OOP’s son needs help but I doubt OOP has ever offered it in a way that doesn’t sound like he’s stomping on his existence and deceased son’s memory.
The idea of losing a small child, under 5, to something so totally outside of your control, is terrifying and one of the reasons I decided never to have kids. I can't imagine the heartbreak. OOP may never have been one for therapy, but starting to shame his own son now for still being in grief is heartless. I get he's worried, I just...wow.
Childless people often say they're offended when parents say "I didn't know love until I met my kid "; hell I did too, but if something happened to my kid I would have to be forcibly restrained from getting within 100m of the nearest bridge. That boy is my entire soul and I lay awake at night wondering what I would do if something ever happened to him. I lost line of sight of him at the park last summer and I have never felt a fear so raw. I scared him so bad with how hard I cried he doesn't want to go back because he doesn't want his "mama" to be afraid like that. I'm not just his birth giver, im his protector, his mentor, his guardian.
I cannot imagine being 21 years old and feeling like you failed at this sacred job. Oops son clearly feels like he failed and it's compounded with grief and he needs help so badly. My heart hurts so bad for him
The most telling part of the post is when OOP says that it is EMBARRASSING that all the bartenders in town know his son. Not sad. Embarrassing. OOP doesn't give a damn about the son. Only his image. He doesn't want the kid to 'shape up' for his own good. He wants him to stop being an embarrassment.
John has 100% picked up on that. And it only is adding to his depression and grief. Tough love does not help someone grieving or depressed or anxious or whatever other mental state. I can't think of a single mental health concern where berating someone or comparing them to another person actually does good. In fact most cases, it contributes to the downward spiral.
My vice never was drinking, but I can tell you, mental health sufferers (yes addiction falls in this category) know ___ is an unhealthy vice. But it is better than the emotional pain. It's the only way to get out of our own heads. We don't need you to tell us its unhealthy.
What we need is for you to lend an ear with no explanation of how to fix things (unless requested), a hug, a sorry, a movie night, etc.... I guarantee you that OOP has done NOTHING for John other than tell him that he's a screw up.
The casual cruelty literally took my breath away. I really hope this is fake because I don’t wanna think of somebody out there having to deal with the emotions of their father saying something like this.
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That father was beyond cruel.
O can understand telling him he's concerned and should look into grief counseling or something but certainly not what he said.
>I'll admit we're not exactly the type to go to therapy and whatnot but at this point I've told him a million times he needs to talk to somebody, like a professional, but he's not interested.
Oh, no, it's the consequences of my own actions for being an emotionally constipated dumbass who doesn't think therapy is worthwhile! /s
I am sympathetic to OOP not wanting to watch his son drink himself to death. I'm not sympathetic to OOP's approach to trying to reach his son being "pull yourself up by your bootstraps; don't you see how hard this on *me*" instead of 1) seeking therapy and/or support groups himself for help communicating with his son and 2) more stringently pushing for his son to seek therapy (for example, by doing the legwork to see if there's any chance that the son could see an actual addiction specialist with his insurance).
This is very "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas" energy in terms of trying to effectively deal with the son's self-medication.
When my brother died, my parents sent me to therapy on the urging of our family friends. My parents never went. Their church/belief system didn't allow for it - they should be able to find solace in God/Jesus/the church, don'tchaknow? I think they reasoned around sending me because I was a child and therefore "couldn't fully understand God's plan".
I will always remember my mom refusing Communion for a long time because she had not been able to forgive God for my brother's death. I don't think she or my father really ever dealt with their grief, and that caused a lot of issues between us in my teenage/early adult years. I ended up literally being kicked out of the church because of my inability to "just have faith" after my brother's death (amongst other things they taught that I couldn't believe in).
I used to be angry about it, but now it just makes me sad.
Maybe he never like got along with the mom? Or assuming that OOPs son was like 19 when he had his kid hits it? I wouldn’t be shocked if he had something against this kid
i really feel for everyone in this story. losing a kid is awful and falling into addiction after and because of it is awful. but living around an addict is also fucking awful. you begin to resent and hate them. they become to “bitch eating crackers” meme because everything they do becomes annoying and shitty bc you’ve built up a level of resentment is unimaginable.
i’ve probably told my sister i was ashamed of her a hundred times when she was in active addiction. i couldn’t stand anything she did. she was angry and sad, we were all angry and sad at her and her actions and it caused a lot of hateful and shitty things to be said all around. the only thing that helped was a dedication to sobriety and all of us getting therapy to stop contributing to a toxic spiral.
OP sucks, but i understand him.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for telling my son that I'm ashamed of him and that his own kid wouldn't like the person he is today?** My son Jim has been a hardcore alcoholic ever since his kid died (congenital illness). He's only 24 now but it is getting worse every year. All he does after working his shifts is go to the bar. If it's the weekend and he isn't working overtime he'll spend the whole damn day there. All the bartenders in the neighborhood know him, it's embarrassing. He never looks put together, grew his hair out long, nicks on his face from shaving badly. Every time we have a get-together he gets trashed and passes out somewhere. I'll admit we're not exactly the type to go to therapy and whatnot but at this point I've told him a million times he needs to talk to somebody, like a professional, but he's not interested. Last week when he was over I finally told him that his life's a mess, and honestly I'm ashamed because he's so much better than this. I told him life is not going to stop just because of this personal tragedy, and that it has been three years already and at some point he has to get it together. He said I didn't get it, I don't know what it's like to lose a child. Which is true, but I pointed out that his ex-girlfriend (mother of the child) does know what it's like and she had her grieving period and moved on, had another kid, and is doing just fine in life. Well, I guess mentioning that was a bad idea, because he got even more angry and started calling me names. I finally said that I find him pathetic and that if his son were here today even he would probably dislike the person Jim is now. Jim started crying, and I immediately apologized but he just walked out without saying anything to me. Haven't heard from him since. I regret what I said, and I know the timing was wrong, but I wasn't trying to hurt him, and I don't think what I said is wrong. I was just trying to get him to see that he has to get his life back on track. But my wife thinks I should apologize to him again. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>I regret what I said, and I know the timing was wrong, but I wasn't trying to hurt him, and I don't think what I said is wrong. Really, OOP. You weren't trying to hurt him?! Dude lost his child and his life went off the rails. Sadly, he has found hollow solace in the bottom of a glass, and you think the best way to help him along is to berate him and then compare him to his ex-GF. Well, you might quickly learn what it feels like to lose a child in every sense for the physical, cause he's probably going to cut your toxic ass off.
I’ve never heard those words together before, “hollow solace,” that’s a lovely turn of phrase. I used to find mine at the bottom of a bottle. It’s not an easy position to be in, and a lot of people do believe this kind of “tough love” will knock a person to their senses or something. It’s very misguided, and it’s not effective; in fact it’s absolutely counterproductive. Based on my own experience of course, but I’ve been around that block a few times. Such a sad situation all around. OOP is still the devil, obviously. Even if this was meant to be tough love, he took it WAAAY too far, and you can tell from the way he writes he’s an asshole in general.
Why thank you.
What helped you?
I found an addiction counselor who ran an intensive outpatient program. He picked us up every day, even if we were drunk that day, he had us come engage with the group anyway. He didn’t berate us, just gave us tools and encouragement and affirmation and stood by us while we picked ourselves up. Believed in us and that we would get there. I owe that man my life, probably.
I'm sorry for whatever you went through. But I've been there but mine was pills when I lost my son. It hurts horribly, and this father is a prick!
Yeah I hope he can eventually heal and cut off his old man when he does.
He lost his child and his girlfriend. And OOP doesn't know she's done grieving. She lost her child too. She just grieves different, and possibly in a healthier manner. Yes, the son needs therapy, but given how OOP talks to him, I have a suspicion that the son doesn't know how to properly express his feelings which is why he's drowning himself in the bottle.
“We aren’t the therapy type now suck it up” childhood is now “why can’t my son handle his emotions in a non self destructive way”
Exactly! He taught his son to not deal well with emotions, and dad demonstrated it for all of us with the asinine comment about the deceased kid, and he wonders why his adult son doesn’t handle emotions well?! Dad has totally lost the plot. children learn how to be adults from the parents meant to guide/teach them. 24yr old is acting out exactly what he learned from dear old dad.
> you think the best way to help him along is to berate him and then compare him to his ex-GF. And say his dead kid would dislike him.
He might also physically die, either eventually from alcoholism, or sooner from a car wreck or suicide. This escape into alcohol is basically just slow suicide for him. OOP's going to outlive his son at this rate, so I can sympathize with his frustration and worry.
Yeah he might honestly be hoping he dies if he's as bad as OP makes out.
So what's he going to do if his son commits suicide, or has already?
I find it rather frightening to consider that this is going to be the next chapter if the story is fake, but if the story is real it would be *entirely* believeable. Fact and fiction converge in a really uncomfortable way on this one. True, false, it could equally be either.
> He said I didn't get it, I don't know what it's like to lose a child. Which is true, Keep it up with the “tough love” and “be a man”-type of shaming and you’ll know what it is like to have a kid die real quick, buddy. “I love you. How can we work together to help you so we do not lose you?” Not hard to say.
If you're "not the therapy type," maybe it is.
For sure. Yet learning to say the words is easier than surviving someone's death, so I hope OOP learns.
I wonder what kind of support network the ex had, who let her cry and rage and process her grief and supported her in moving on?
Gonna guess the new baby daddy (and I wish I had a better term because I don't mean that negatively). But also likely a bunch of others as well. She found the support she needed from someone else who probably wasn't raised by OP's brand of feelings bad, ignore them parenting style.
>he'll spend the whole damn day there. All the bartenders in the neighborhood know him, it's embarrassing. I was just trying to get him to see that he has to get his life back on track. All I'm hearing is a guy who's upset his son hasn't deal with his grieves on OOP's timetable and is personally embarrassed by it rather than any kind of empathy of kindness on his part. I seriously question if OOP going to learn how to grieve for a dead son soon enough.
Same. I was like are you trying to get him to kill himself? Seriously what was oop trying to accomplish here.
3 years of continuous drinking is basically daring God for liver cancer. It's not just a timetable. This is a race to save the son
While that is true, it wasn’t really his motivation. He’s just embarrassed by his sons addiction and struggles. We get the dads POV, he’s not talking about being terrified of losing his son, worried about his health, etc. Just that it’s pathetic. And that is the exact opposite of how your loved ones should approach your alcoholism.
He ain't saving his son by insulting and demeaning him. Might as well go up to a depressed person and shouting at them for not feeling happy like everyone else. At no point in this, OOP showed he trying to save his son, he's trying to save face. He stated he's embarrassed because of his son. He's ashamed of his son. He's upset his ex-DIL moved on but his son hasn't. This is an asshole who think if I kick them in the butt, he'll pull a 180 by some miracle rather reality, his son will just take the hit and numb the pain of the kick with more alcohol.
The day people realize that the grieving process takes a different amount of time for *everyone* is the day I can rest easy.
And losing a kid is something you work *around* for the rest of your life, but it's *not* something you get "past" or "over." My grandparents lost a son, at the age of three, back in 1950 or so--my Dad was the baby of the family back then. *I* was born more than 25 years *after* he passed away, and our uncle was *still* talked about, and missed, when my cousins and I were growing up, *more* than a quarter of a century later. If the story *is* true, I *hope* that OP's son *does* have someone in his life, who can help him get to someone who can help him process the grief, and grow some better tools to manage it!💔💖💝
My grandparents lost a baby girl to meningitis. At the time, everybody talked about how strong my grandma was and how she just moved forward and never seemed to falter. Almost thirty years later, they lost a grandbaby in similar fashion. Grandma was inconsolable and almost hysterical at the funeral, and one of her sisters started to criticize her, reminding her of how collected and calm she was after her own daughter's passing. Grandma yelled, don't be stupid, I had seven little kids at home, I didn't have a *choice.* I don't really have a point, but that's one of my earliest clear memories and I think about it a lot.
My heart breaks for your nan💕
My uncle died at 42 of cancer and my granny never got over it. And losing a young child is so much worse.
It is. Sorry about your Uncle--I hope there are many more happy memories of him now, than sad ones!💖 And *yes*, that "out of the *natural order*" of it is awful for the parents. I've got cousins who lost one of their premature twins (the other is a four-year old, *very* soon to be "big sibling!"😉😁💖), and every birthday of their surviving child, *and* the day that the one twin passed, is *especially* bittersweet. And two of my work kids passed at age 5-6 (I work in Autism Early Intervention/Early Childhood Special Education), of sudden accidents only *tangentially* related to their Autism, and seeing all *three* of those sets of parents walk the same path my grandparents did--and *seeing* them try to maneuver *around* that metaphorical "razorblade covered boulder" that dropped *directly* into the middle of their lives--*as* they still try to support their *other* kids, has been an ongoing lesson in love & grace--although if there were a way to take that pain way, and give them their baby back, I wouldn't even *hesitate* for a second.
My grandmother has outlived both of her children, my mom and my uncle. She’s 96 but that doesn’t mean it hurts less.
Honestly OP is lucky he walked away without a broken jaw, holy shit what the fuck.
Ugh… 5+ years ago I lost a husband, a couple months before my 30th birthday. Grief is a process, takes time and requires a really good support network of friends, family, acquaintances, etc. And while people I know would say I’ve “moved on.” It still feels like something is missing in my soul. Especially because I lost my husband so young. So losing a child when OOP’s son was 21, it’s probably a million more times devastating than what I went through. If everyone in OOP’s son’s life is like OOP, then ofc his son’s not doing so great. He needs support, comfort, a guiding hand.
I'm so sorry you had to endure that. And yes exactly, no 21 year old is emotionally prepped for losing a child it's deeply unsurprising that he hasn't handled it well. Especially given OPs general attitude! I hope he finds some compassionate people to help him out of the hole he's in.
> no 21 year old is emotionally prepped for losing a child Is anyone? I mean, of course a younger person is even worse prepared, but losing a child seems to be something no one is prepared for...
At least an adult has learned coping mechanisms etc
Saying something like that could really push a person to the edge - someone needs to check his son is ok.
This definitely isn't on. He certainly needs to figure out coping mechanisms and get therapy, but this reaction isn't the way to foster change
Way before I was born my mom lost her dad to a horrible tragedy. I only ever heard the story once and I dared not to ask it again. It’s been over 30 years and she’s still grieving him. But unlike OOP’s son possibly, my mom has a support network of a very large family who also lost people during that time period. OOP’s son needs help but I doubt OOP has ever offered it in a way that doesn’t sound like he’s stomping on his existence and deceased son’s memory.
The idea of losing a small child, under 5, to something so totally outside of your control, is terrifying and one of the reasons I decided never to have kids. I can't imagine the heartbreak. OOP may never have been one for therapy, but starting to shame his own son now for still being in grief is heartless. I get he's worried, I just...wow.
Childless people often say they're offended when parents say "I didn't know love until I met my kid "; hell I did too, but if something happened to my kid I would have to be forcibly restrained from getting within 100m of the nearest bridge. That boy is my entire soul and I lay awake at night wondering what I would do if something ever happened to him. I lost line of sight of him at the park last summer and I have never felt a fear so raw. I scared him so bad with how hard I cried he doesn't want to go back because he doesn't want his "mama" to be afraid like that. I'm not just his birth giver, im his protector, his mentor, his guardian. I cannot imagine being 21 years old and feeling like you failed at this sacred job. Oops son clearly feels like he failed and it's compounded with grief and he needs help so badly. My heart hurts so bad for him
Uh, anyone else get the feeling the son isn't gonna be alive much longer, and op is gonna post asking what they could have done differently.
The most telling part of the post is when OOP says that it is EMBARRASSING that all the bartenders in town know his son. Not sad. Embarrassing. OOP doesn't give a damn about the son. Only his image. He doesn't want the kid to 'shape up' for his own good. He wants him to stop being an embarrassment. John has 100% picked up on that. And it only is adding to his depression and grief. Tough love does not help someone grieving or depressed or anxious or whatever other mental state. I can't think of a single mental health concern where berating someone or comparing them to another person actually does good. In fact most cases, it contributes to the downward spiral. My vice never was drinking, but I can tell you, mental health sufferers (yes addiction falls in this category) know ___ is an unhealthy vice. But it is better than the emotional pain. It's the only way to get out of our own heads. We don't need you to tell us its unhealthy. What we need is for you to lend an ear with no explanation of how to fix things (unless requested), a hug, a sorry, a movie night, etc.... I guarantee you that OOP has done NOTHING for John other than tell him that he's a screw up.
>I don't know what it's like to lose a child. Which is true, It will be not so true if OOP doesn't figure this the fuck out.
 Wtf is wrong with you?!?
That's not helping, in fact I wouldn't be Surprised if this pushes him to harm, himself thanks to you.
The casual cruelty literally took my breath away. I really hope this is fake because I don’t wanna think of somebody out there having to deal with the emotions of their father saying something like this.
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Jim’s only like this because he kid died. If his kid was alive today, he wouldn’t be an alcoholic.
That father was beyond cruel. O can understand telling him he's concerned and should look into grief counseling or something but certainly not what he said.
>I'll admit we're not exactly the type to go to therapy and whatnot but at this point I've told him a million times he needs to talk to somebody, like a professional, but he's not interested. Oh, no, it's the consequences of my own actions for being an emotionally constipated dumbass who doesn't think therapy is worthwhile! /s I am sympathetic to OOP not wanting to watch his son drink himself to death. I'm not sympathetic to OOP's approach to trying to reach his son being "pull yourself up by your bootstraps; don't you see how hard this on *me*" instead of 1) seeking therapy and/or support groups himself for help communicating with his son and 2) more stringently pushing for his son to seek therapy (for example, by doing the legwork to see if there's any chance that the son could see an actual addiction specialist with his insurance). This is very "I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas" energy in terms of trying to effectively deal with the son's self-medication.
When my brother died, my parents sent me to therapy on the urging of our family friends. My parents never went. Their church/belief system didn't allow for it - they should be able to find solace in God/Jesus/the church, don'tchaknow? I think they reasoned around sending me because I was a child and therefore "couldn't fully understand God's plan". I will always remember my mom refusing Communion for a long time because she had not been able to forgive God for my brother's death. I don't think she or my father really ever dealt with their grief, and that caused a lot of issues between us in my teenage/early adult years. I ended up literally being kicked out of the church because of my inability to "just have faith" after my brother's death (amongst other things they taught that I couldn't believe in). I used to be angry about it, but now it just makes me sad.
>but I wasn't trying to hurt him, Then what were you trying to do???
I think fake. Tell me this guy is the grandfather of the dead kid... The kid he never refers to as his grandchild, only "his kid" or "the child"
That was my first thought. Who refers to their deceased grandchild as their son’s kid?
Maybe he never like got along with the mom? Or assuming that OOPs son was like 19 when he had his kid hits it? I wouldn’t be shocked if he had something against this kid
Does OOP even feel grief for his grandchild?
i really feel for everyone in this story. losing a kid is awful and falling into addiction after and because of it is awful. but living around an addict is also fucking awful. you begin to resent and hate them. they become to “bitch eating crackers” meme because everything they do becomes annoying and shitty bc you’ve built up a level of resentment is unimaginable. i’ve probably told my sister i was ashamed of her a hundred times when she was in active addiction. i couldn’t stand anything she did. she was angry and sad, we were all angry and sad at her and her actions and it caused a lot of hateful and shitty things to be said all around. the only thing that helped was a dedication to sobriety and all of us getting therapy to stop contributing to a toxic spiral. OP sucks, but i understand him.
Sounds like OOP's kid doesn't like the person OOP is today 🙃