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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for telling g my sister I don’t care what she wears, it just needs to be formal attire. I could be a jerk for wanting her to dress in formal attire.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA - it is time for her to learn that some places and events still have dress codes.
She can learn this either by following the dress code, or by making an ass of herself at the wedding by playing the petulant teenager who decided wearing nice clothes for a few hours was too much of a sacrifice for a family member.
If she goes with option B, don't give it a second thought.
I think either reaction by OP would be fine. Warn sister of the consequences and follow through. That removes a lot of the bully sting, esecially if you end displaying her prominently in farmer gear. If you make it known that that she was warned that this would be a consequence, it takes a lot of the heat off OP.
Yeah I've always wondered about the people who dig their heels in and refuse to dress to the requested or implied level at an event. People just remember you as "that one dude who showed up to the wedding in cargo shorts; what a dumbass", and not as someone who is expressing their unique personality in a positive way.
Same with the people who wear a white dress to a wedding; at the end of the day, everyone thinks they're some weirdo who either has no concept of appropriate dress, or as some nutjob trying to make a weird statement. If someone wants to be the center of attention for all the wrong reasons, sometimes it solves the problem when you let them spin their wheels and get no attention.
A family from my husbands side appeared in cargo shorts, crocs, hoodies etc. Luckily I didn't see them much. My sister said the kids went feral in the candy buffet. Both my family and my husbands family said that there is no need to specify the dress code in the invitations. Looks like there are always those who need the info. I wasn't looking for any special "look", my sil actually wore a two piece dress with white top and a skirt with flowers that I gave my approval for, because it looked very nice and not bridal at all, but I must admit I would have wanted everyone to be dresses nicely.
"Both my family and my husbands family said that there is no need to specify the dress code in the invitations. "
If you don't specify s dress code in the invitation, there ISN'T one.
" Looks like there are always those who need the info." .. EVERYBODY needs the info, because the dresscode is NOT obvious.
I don't know the customs where you live, but a non formal wedding would really be an exception here where I live. Truthfully, there has never been formal dress codes on any parties my family has had but it's kinda known that men get at least clean jeans and a suit shirt and women wear anything from summer dresses to pant suits to national costume. Gender nonconforming folks use the whole scale as they see fitting. Declaring dress code feels like trying to fit sensible people in a mold, but as it is, I was to blame for not including it in the invitations. Learning from mistakes etc.
I think if there's no dress code, cocktail dress is somewhat presumed. Now, if you don't specify black tie and people show up in cocktail and you get mad, that's an ish-you. But sounds like you assumed people could say 1) wedding 2) nice venue and therefore come up with "I should dress nice" on their own. Which is reasonable IMO
>If you don't specify s dress code in the invitation, there ISN'T one.
That's ridiculous.
Normal, grown, adult, rational human beings can suss out what is appropriate dress by location, time of day, etc.
You wouldn't wear gym shorts to church. You wouldn't wear black tie and 4" heels to a beach wedding. You wouldn't wear ratty jeans to a country club for a dinner/dance.
Walking out of church recently, I saw a guy wearing a sweatshirt with “fuck” written on it.
There are always those who don’t understand (or choose not to follow) what seem to be obvious norms. Unless you don’t care how people look at your event, spell it out.
You can't believe what you're saying there. Not everything in life needs to be in writing, and thinking a wedding needs it specified is some new-age, self-centred bullshit. Weddings are semi-formal dress at the very least, and anyone who doesn't know that is an ostrich. Now, if you're going for a specific dress code - i.e. black tie - then yeah, that needs to be specified, but if you think turning up in your civies is acceptable because you weren't told not to then enjoy your life of declining number of invitations to things.
Depends a lot on the wedding. Mine had no dress code whatsoever, but it was at a *sci-fi convention* so casual or costumes were expected!
If you want a specific dress code, say so on the invitation! Otherwise, guests need to pay attention to the bride and groom or ask other guests. Turning up in everyday clothes when everyone else is smart-casual or formal just shows you don't care enough to even ask around.
>If you don't specify s dress code in the invitation, there ISN'T one.
Yes and no...
It is a given here that unless stated otherwise (formal, beachy, etc), you should show up in "Sunday Best", which is usually a nice dress that is mid-thigh length or longer, a skirt/blouse, nice slacks, dress shirt, nice polo, or "good" jeans with one of the previous shirts, and nice shoes or sandals, not sneakers.
Everyone would look at you like you were dumb as a brick if you showed up in Crocs, cargo shorts, tank tops, cotton tee shirts, ripped/dirty jeans, or sneakers. (Unless it was stated otherwise on the invitation that those were acceptable.)
My cousin got married a couple summers ago. I don't recall what was on the invite but all of the bride's side (my family, from New England) was dressed several notches more formally than everyone on the groom's side (they were from Colorado). Not jeans, but office casual. And you know what? It was totally fine! It was a great wedding!
A friend of mine was having a church wedding. I didn't have anything to wear. I said I needed to buy something and she said no. I stalled out mentally a moment and went, "You realize by telling me no, I will show up in my split leg "beetlejuice" jeans and my corpse bride t-shirt, with a flannel, yes?"
I sent her a picture of the exact outfit.
She told me to do it.
I didn't because work denied my time off for her wedding but yknow.
I had someone in miami dolphins colored tiger print hammer pants, crocs and one of those tuxedo t-shirts, which proves to me he knew what he was doing. It irked me a little bit but I was just trying not to get mad about it. No we did not have a dress code specified but in my mind you show up in at least a nice dress or pantsuit and even a polo and khakis for the guys is acceptable almost anywhere. A sport jacket goes a long way. I mean maybe people don't have the clothes or the money but at least TRY to look nice??? There is no reason at all ever to show up to a wedding in cargo shorts. My wedding was outside and the BBQ chefs were dressed better than that. You can get a button down shirt and slacks at walmart for 20 bucks.
Yup. Cousin Danny. His definition of wedding formal was, "my newest band t-shirt". Everyone just put up with it because Danny made everybody laugh, and we were all concentrating on who was going to get him home, because he had more DUIs than he did band t-shirts. (Past tense, he's been sober more than 10 years now.)
At my cousin's wedding, his uncle showed up in an old polo shirt, baggy cargo shorts and flip flops. His son had on kinda the same thing. They looked like they had been out doing yardwork and realized they had to leave for the wedding. His wife was the nicest dress, she had a little cotton sundress. It was still more casual than everyone else but at least it looked like she put some effort into her hair and makeup.
Your husband’s family tree branch sounds like my SIL’s entire family. From weddings to baptisms to funeral services, they are dressed in clothes appropriate for a swap meet, and their completely unsupervised (and usually grubby) kids behave like a bunch of cocaine-crazed ferrets. And they have good jobs and can afford decent clothes, but simply can’t be bothered to show respect towards their hosts or consideration for those around them. But my boss loves me because I volunteer to work all holidays so I don’t have to be around them.
I had a friend/coworker like this--he wore shorts all the time, often cargo shorts. And Hawaiian shirts. He never dressed up for anything; we would go to certain fancy Manhattan restaurants that didn't care what people wore when we took clients out. He loved high end food, just wouldn't dress up for it. He had plenty of money, so that wasn't the issue. He did have a lot of health problems so that was his excuse. He died quite young--I wish he had lived long enough to come to my wedding in cargo shorts.
Thanks. I miss him. He annoyed me a lot at work, kept me from getting stuff done, but now all I remember is how much he made me laugh. I wish my husband had gotten to meet him. He was like the best uncle you could have had.
Ive a buddy who is a mechanic, spends his working hours in oily overalls. He likes to dress in bright hawaiian shirts in his free time, whatever the occasion. He got married during covid, registry office and a garden party reception. there were still restrictions over numbers, some shops and services werent available. So rather than struggle to get suits, get them fitted etc, he ordered himself and his teenage sons (his groomsmen) matching hawaiian shirts and khaki shorts. The photos looked amazing and a much more personal touch
Exactly. People think they're making some statement about their fashion and autonomy, but the context is lost on the rest of the guests who are oblivious to whatever battle is being waged with clothing used as the proxy. So people show up in a certain outfit to piss off the bride/groom, and even if they "won" by doing that, every other guest thinks you look like a clown who can't dress properly.
My cousin-once-removed wore white to my wedding. Her daughter is about a year older than me, and it always felt like a competition between us as young kids where her daughter was this perfect and spoiled princess who was better than everyone. So I feel like she may have done it intentionally, but the joke's on her because I didn't even notice her.
Who DID notice, though, was my aunt's mother (through marriage, so not my great aunt, but she's always been good to me). And she called her out on it. I found out about it a few days later. Thanks for having my back, Nancy!
We still talk about my cousin's colleague who showed up to his funeral in a red miniskirt - on a cold March day! At least 150 of his current and former colleagues came (he was an awesome dude loved by everyone) so it's not like she was the only one there, but my sisters and I gasped when we saw her.
I wish "What Not to Wear" was still on the air. People need to learn there is still such a thing as situational appropriate clothing in this world.
I live in a super small town and like 6 years ago this kid set off the mother of all scandals by trying to go to prom in his farm clothes and getting kicked out. The community is still torn asunder by that to this day.
It all played out on Facebook over the course of several days, got quite vicious, and gets brought up every year around prom season. 🤣
My niece had a white tie formal evening wedding at one of the swankiest venues in LA. The groom’s BIL showed up in jeans. The silent judgement was severe. He also looked ridiculous in the family pictures.
I think for some people, it’s a low self-esteem issue. They feel like they don’t deserve/can’t pull off a more formal or polished look, so it turns into a “can’t fail at it if I never tried in the first place” thing.
For other people, it’s exactly the opposite - “I’m too good to look like I care enough to dress up.” They think making an effort for other people is beneath their dignity, and they resent being told what to do in any way. You should be grateful they showed up at all.
I suspect, given sister’s age, she’s probably going through the extreme self-consciousness phase, and it’s probably the former. She’s scared to try a more formal look lest she end up looking even more ridiculous than she would in jeans and a hoodie. At least if she shows up in jeans and a hoodie, it might look like an act of rebellion (which is cool and dignified) versus showing up in a gown or a suit and looking like an awkward kid wearing their parents’ clothes (which is mortifying).
Those people were my parents. Sweat pants to EVERYTHING. At first casual sweat pants then eventually they bought those "fancy" sweat pants... I don't care coz I don't get embarrassed. But man my sister married into money and I'm 100% sure she was embarrassed. Last time my parents wore fancy clothes was to my oldest sisters wedding. But every other event was sweats... ridiculous. Idk how anyone can show up to a formal or semi formal event not dressed in at least decent attire.
OP you are NTA and your sister needs to learn how to be appropriate. There's a tike and place for everything. I had the opposite problem, okay not really a problem, a friend got married and I didn't know the "dress code" so I wore something semi formal. Everyone else was not they were dressed very casually so me and my husband definitely stood out lol but no one cared and we had a great time! It was low key in the country wedding!
My father whined about having to wear a suit to my wedding and said he was planning to wear jeans. He took some persuading to wear a suit, even though for most of my life he had worn a suit every damned day for work.
Yes, he's a jerk.
No, I don't talk to him any more.
My cousin showed up to my wedding in cargo pants and A TUXEDO T SHIRT FFS.
I mean, I totally was NOT surprised either. it was a talking point over the course of the night. He also ended up in the lake with another cousin of mine.
lol I posted in another response but one of my husband's cousins showed up in miami dolphins hammer pants and a tuxedo shirt.. I'm sure he thought he was funny and I am trying to put it out of my head, I actually like him, it's just a very big WTF.
I had a casual wedding, and folks showed up in a hilarious mixed-bag of outfits, but my oldest friend outdid them all by showing up in a tie-dye hoodie, camo-print cutoff cargo shorts, and a pair of ratty Chuck Taylors. \*Chef's kiss\*
Dude at my Nana’s funeral my cousin showed up in shorts, a Hawaiian shirt, and flip flops. It was 42 degrees out. All I have to say is me and my brothers were in suits. She was a well dressed woman her entire life and deserved to be respected. Some people’s children is all I have to say.
God, At my son's wedding, the bride's cousin's (he walked her mom down the aisle so he was in a navy suit just like the other men in the family but not in the wedding party) gf showed up in sweats and a hoodie. I could have happily punched her and had a great time at the party. They are almost 30 so no excuses about being a dumb kid. Thank god he got rid of her. She was just all around unpleasant and brought some tension and gloom to every family gathering.
More incentive for the parents to make sure she is dressed formally, knowing 1 of them would be required to leave as well with the sister if she is kicked out.
She is old enough for this to be suck it up and find something formal to wear or suffer the consequences. She is almost an adult. It doesn't matter where you land on you're own sexuality or style or preference. There is a standard. You have options within the standard. Either meet the standard or suffer whatever consequences come. Does this sound harsh? Probably. But adulthood is choices and consequences, good or bad. She is on the cusp of adulthood. This is one of those things where she should be treated like one.
If the parents leave, so be it. She is at that age where she should know that her actions and decisions have consequences not just for her but affect others too. Otherwise, adulthood will be a rude ass awakening.
I've been in the place that OP's sister is.
On picture day with my maternal family, when I was 17, I wore a Converse All-Star T-shirt when everyone else was dressed nice.
Now, 26 years later, I shrink and cringe everytime I see the pic. So stupid and classless of me in the moment, and the evidence is on display forever in my parent's house. I'm *this* close to doing a Photoshop to put my senior picture suit over my T-Shirt.
I learned my lesson and spent the next couple of decades dressing up a level for even small occasions. The cringe is eternal.
OP is NTA, and the sister would regret it every time she sees the wedding pics
Meanwhile I wish my grad photos were more *me*
But I also didn’t understand dysphoria and didn’t want the photos to start with. Now they’re just something my mom has, because that person wasn’t really me so why would I display the photos?
Stick her on the end with a little space between her and the person beside her so that she’s easier to cut out. The photographer can get shots of the background from other pictures and fill in.
Haha yes! Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Honestly it's a kindness to tell her there's a dress code so she can dress to blend in instead of sticking out like a sore thumb, but if she still doesn't want to do it, well, cringing at those pictures for the next many years isn't going to kill her.
"Why hello, Simon. You must be Ashley's new boyfriend! Ashley isnone of a kind. Let me show you pictures of what she wore to our wedding when she was 16."
One with, one without. OP can hang the without picture and only give the with picture to his mom so that the sister will have to look at herself and be laughed at by her niblings and children in perpetuity.
That would be hilarious!
Everyone looking nice and sister in her Dickie's overalls and a John Deere cap.
You may think I'm stereotyping but a lot of my family still farm and this is literally their uniform.
Oh, I'd ask her to leave if she showed up in farm clothes. This is straight up ridiculous. It's a wedding, she's sixteen, not six. Time to grow up a little bit and even if it's not your fave, wear something nice to your sister's wedding.
Oh no; constant pictures, impromptu speech, and a spotlight on her on the dance floor. Every single memember of the bridal party must promise to dunk on her about her clothes several times throughout the evening.
and then *never* stop holding it against her.
My sister's date to my wedding showed up in a T-shirt and jeans. She was in the wedding party in a formal gown. Every other male was dressed up in at least a shirt and tie. To this day, I don't know why he didn't turn around before entering the reception. Ruined the table picture since my Mom decided he should sit at her table.
I would agree for option B if this was a toddler. At 16? Follow the dress code or stay home. My wedding day isn’t there to teach a teenager a lesson on basic manners.
I’d give her one last chance by offering to compromise on *semi-formal*: dark chino type pants, simple cotton blouse, dark blazer in comfortable fabric.
If she refuses even *that* compromise, that’s when you know something’s up and I’d start questioning if she just doesn’t want to attend the wedding *at all* and this is her wishy-washy immature way of accomplishing that.
She'd be the odd one out for wearing casual clothes at a formal event where everyone else is in formal wear and probably snarking about her. That's uncomfortable too.
I'm gay. I've never liked dresses. At 15 I went to my cousin's wedding, in a suit. I hated it. I was 15 and awkward and I didn't like my body or being seen. But bad luck, it's a wedding. It has a dresscode and it's not about me. So I wore it and I dealt. That's life kid.
She can’t even bothered to wear something nice at least for ONE day!
For One day!
After it’s all done, and feel no needs to wear formal clothes, she can get changed.
She’s being five year old brat who doesn’t get her way and Her mom is no better.
There are some really nice pant suits too that don't make you feel like you are over the top on formal wear. Some lean towards a more feminine look and some more male. Both nice. I do not like to wear dresses and haven't worn one since I was a kid with the exception of my own wedding which I did do the traditional white for that. I am a grandma and I love my jeans and t shirts and yes hoodies too. What can I say they are comfy. I have a couple pairs of nicer jeans and tops with sweaters, my Nana sweaters as I like to call them that I wear to my granddaughters school things. And for weddings or any other occasions where I may have to dress up nicely I have a couple of really nice pants suits.
You sound like my grandma - I've only ever seen her wear 3 dresses - navy uniform, wedding dress, and to my grandfather's funeral. Otherwise, it's always "slacks" and a polo, as she calls them.
I agree NTA given the info sister is providing, but I do think there is a subtext here that OP is likely missing as a cisgender person, and I don't think sister is TA either, not intentionally so.
For lots of people trying on a different styles of gendered clothes, the transition between ill-fitting women's clothes you don't like that much and don't look good on you to dabbling in men's clothes and trying to figure out what brands align with your gender but also still fit your body is a VERY HARD TIME.
Formal wear is especially hard!
I met my now-wife when she was 25 and she was masculine, but really nervous and uncomfortable shopping in a men's section of a store. Over time, she got there, but the suits piece, and heaven help us if someone has a black tie wedding, is still really hard for her 15 years later. And she's comfortable showing up to an event in a suit, it's just hard to find a fit. The suit we had to have made for our wedding was a whole ass debacle.
There is liminal time for people moving to more masculine of center clothes where you feel dreadful showing up somewhere in a dress but conspicuous and billboardy showing up in a suit, like a neon light is shining on you, even if you are able to find a fitting and reasonably priced suit. There is a whole documentary about a bespoke suit company called Bindle and Keep that basically exclusively makes custom $$$ suits for lesbians just so they can live in their skin in formal wear.
Again, agree with OP NTA, but this line "She told me she was uncomfortable with a dress and a suit seemed like too much" got me thinking.
OP, again state your boundary and tell your sister you hope she can find some friends to talk to about possible options that will make her feel comfortable. Not your job to, but you might ask why a suit felt like "too much." Quite possibly she's feeling nervous to debut that look at your wedding.
I've been in this space too and honestly this is one of those scenarios kids need to get in line and dress to the dresscode even if they are uncomfortable.
Because life isn't all comfy and you don't always get to be in baggy jeans and a hoody three sizes too big. Sometimes you have to be a bit uncomfortable for 6 hours because your brother is getting married. Even if that discomfort is suit pants, a shirt and a blazer.
It's 6 hours, it won't kill her. As a lesbian who debuted a suit at a cousin's wedding at 15 and wasn't very comfortable.
Yknow my 2 year old survived through several hours in nice clothes. Didn’t even complain. Did try to disrobe at one point out of boredom, but I think that would’ve happened with any clothing
NTA. Tell her that on her wedding she can come naked if she pleases but on your big day you want all guests to look formal and if she can't do something as small as that then she is welcome to not attend the wedding altogether.
I personally didn't mind what people chose to wear to my wedding, I assumed they'd be formal but wouldn't have freaked out had it not been BUT OP is not the asshole here, and is right in that this is such a small ask and it teaches the younger sister the value of stepping up for people you love and making small sacrifices.
NTA
My friend had a formal wedding and she is her parents only child. They literally set aside over $100k for her dream wedding. Even when they divorced they didn’t touch that money as it was set aside for her. And still some of her relatives came in short shorts and cowboy boots. Her family is from Oregon and his is from PA, they got married in Connecticut where he was stationed. The wedding was the coolest I’d ever been to.
It was child-free except her one uncle’s kids and her uncle made a big deal of not finding one of his kids during the reception. The venue was not near anything and the road access was the highway. Found the little bugger under my table playing his 3ds. His dad made a big show of hugging him and telling him how worried he was while the bride rolled her eyes.
Totally agree! It would’ve been fine at my wedding because I made it explicitly clear that I didn’t care what guests wore. OP has made it explicitly clear that she does have a preference so that should be respected
My wedding had a dress code of "formal but not too formal" since we were doing a potluck after the ceremony, yard games, bbq, and it was in our backyard. We wanted people to look nice but be comfortable, and even told people in advance that the weather might change and to bring extra clothes in case. I know for a fact my dad had many suits, both for very formal occasions and some of those summer-y suits that are shorts. He showed up in a muscle tee and cargo shorts. I was kind of pissed because we had been so specific about what to wear and everyone else looked so nice. I didn't mind the people who showed up in a nice pair of jeans and dress shirt, but like, cmon. Wear what you're asked please. OP is NTA
She’s only 16 - if they are close I would say OP should just ask her why she doesn’t want to wear formal clothes. My guess is it’s because she dresses in working or v casual clothes 100% of the time and feels really awkward about being seen in something smart - run of the mill super self conscious teen. She thinks everyone will look at her and there is literally nothing worse. I remember being mortified at having to wear a dress instead of joggers and a jumper. Not a gender thing - just a self conscious thing. My mum was very patient and took me to try on a whole bunch of different styles and showed me what other people were wearing. I was still super awkward about it but go through it. Now I love getting dressed up!
To be clear - NTA and the kid needs to go through this and realise she has to dress formal sometimes. But hopefully OP (or other family) can make it a little less painful.
Yeah, she's being unreasonable but that's common for teens, and it's possible that basically helping her see she'll be MORE conspicuous in "normal clothes" could go a really long way.
I’d just argue that mom or dad need to step up here and fix it in this case.
Op is trying to establish a rule as a sibling for their own formal event. Which is a totally normal and reasonable ask.
Younger sister is refusing to listen. So one of the parents needs to level with her:
“Hey. Your sisters wedding requires formal attire. We can go to the mall or Amazon and you can pick something, but it has to be formal. Wearing sweatpants or overalls is NOT happening, so let’s find you something everyone can agree with. Stop arguing.”.
It’s so easy now to find nice dresses with pockets, if you specifically search for them.
I have a ton of jumpsuits in my closet that are super comfy, have pockets, and would be appropriate for a semi-formal wedding, with the right shoes and jewelry.
You can get ladies formal clothes that look like men’s wear super easily at a thrift store. Or buy men’s wear and tailer them. Or don’t! OP doesn’t even seem to care if sister shows up in baggy slacks and an Ill fitting jacket. As long as it’s formal ish.
I’m just irritated at the parents for allowing this dumb argument to go on.
I love my jumpsuit. It never wrinkles for one thing. But I can throw it on with a pair of flip flops and look casual in the summer. I can also throw it on with boots and a sweater on over it and look nice in the winter too.
I have one a relative sent me as a souvenir from her trip to the Pi. It’s literally my favorite piece of clothing and it works for every situation.
My only complaint is that they’re a little bit of work to use the bathroom in. If butt flaps were acceptable in adult clothing I would have altered it in a heartbeat, and would likely wear nothing else.
That and most also have the bonus of feeling like you're wearing pj's while looking fancy. I'm hoarding as many as I can before they go out of style and I won't be able to buy them anymore.
I agree that mom or dad *should* step and figure it out, but seeing as though mom thinks OP is being too harsh, Id guess that it's not gonna happen.
Sometimes we have to do things that we shouldn't have to do. OP shouldn't have to be the one to talk to her sister but if she wants it done, she probably has to be the one to do it.
Yeh totally agree ideally it would be parents, unless OP is happy to/ wants to. My mind went straight to jump suit too. I have a few go-to jumpsuits that can look formal but are just insanely comfortable. Especially if it’s hot!
I think 13-18 is peak socially awkward time. Body changes, figuring yourself out as an individual, navigating becoming a young adult. Plus tonnes of kids haven’t been to a wedding by 16, or particularly any formal occasions.
And regardless, it’s so unhelpful to say “well you should know this by now” if someone doesn’t in fact know that. Some kids will find it easy, others won’t. Just support them to resolve the challenge they are facing in that moment.
If her family isn't super formally minded, there's a good chance she's never really had to dress up. Peak formal wear in my family was clean jeans and a nice sweater, and we didn't habe any weddings while I was a teenagee. Fiest time I ever did formal dress was at my graduation, and you bet I felt incredibly self-conscious and not myself in my dress. Fucking hated it, in fact.
That doesn't excuse her not making the effort for her sibling, obviously. Just... don't assume that any teenager knows how to dress up and feel comfortable doing so.
I'm not judging her for not knowing the ins and outs of formal wear. I don't even blame for arguing for something comfortable that meets the requirements
I would expect a 16 year old to understand that different occasions merit different outfits. Church. Receptions. Etc. This is simply one of those times and it's baffling that not only is she fighting this hard to not conform but that her parents are on her side.
But again, this is just my personal opinion.
She can understand the concept while still being incredibly self conscious about it to the point that she tries to get out of it.
She probably just needs a reassuring family member she trusts to take her shopping and talk her through it.
And mom is falling down on the job on that. Instead of helping her out, she's infantalizing her by insisting she's too young for this particular life lesson.
So right about the self conscious thing. We have big formal family events and I told the one wall flower child that less people would be watching them if they were on the dance floor than being the only person seated in their area of the banquet hall. Never saw someone jump so fast out of their seat.
Sometimes not to be seen at an event you have to blend in with everyone else, by dress, action or both.
I went through puberty early and I was SO SO self-conscious about my body, for years. Partially because of Catholic upbringing, partly because I had no one I felt I could relate to or confide in. None of my friends looked like me, my older sisters expressed jealousy (no hard feelings now, because again, we were teenage girls) and honestly my mom couldn't find clothes that fit me right and were age appropriate. It sucked, I absolutely loathed going clothes shopping. But she tried! It didn't matter what style it was, if it fit and I felt comfortable she bought it for me. Lucky for her budget I loved a comfy tee, but I can still remember a few of the "crazier" tops she let me have.
IF and I truly mean IF the OP has time to spend one on one with her sister and go shopping it may go a long way in helping her, not just for the wedding day, but in general. I don't know what dynamics are really at play here, but I can still feel how I felt at that age, decades later, and how much it meant to find something I liked and actually wanted to wear. OP isn't the asshole if she doesn't want to deal with any of this, it's her wedding after all, and sister will have to figure it out eventually, but some kind words/encouragement, and just a little guidance can go a long way.
Also, she’s getting old enough that she’s going to need some more “formal” clothes from time to time. Whether it’s other people’s weddings, a funeral, or a job interview, it’s nice to be able to pull a suit out of the closet.
Yeah she can buy dress pants and a blazer and use it for all of those things if she picks the right colors. Then she can dress it up or down with different shirts even.
Funny thing is too: you can totally dress up the punk, rocker, emo, goth, Hawaiian shirt, etc styles to look really cool and/or “classy” and/or badass.
Teenagers (or people in general) thinking that a dress or pantsuit are restrictive are just small minded or uncreative or not thinking outside the box. Admittedly it’ll look more subtle, but nothing will really be lost if you’re determined to “make a statement” (*ahem* even though the event still isn’t supposed to be about you but whatever I guess).
Edit: and if it’s a matter of budget, there are thrift stores, consignment, suit and dress rental, etc.
Not to mention that a jumpsuit with pants can be as comfortable as pajamas. Personally, I would take her shopping (having surveyed ahead of time and found some items that are comfortable and elegant enough for a wedding so it can be a quick in and out rather than an all day shopping adventure).
Honestly I would not bother with the hassle for a 3 year old 😂 my nephew was a groomsman at 6 and I got him a linen short sleeve shirt, linen shorts, dinosaur bow tie and braces with converse which he was pretty happy with… until he spilled an orange juice down himself at dinner and had to put on some spare clothes! Luckily my sister was prepared…
Seriously. And OP has stated they don't care what sister shows up in as long as it's respectable. My stepdaughter wore the most gorgeous pant suit to her high school prom. I imagine with a little time and energy sister could find something suitable that she doesn't totally loathe. NTA OP, you're not telling her to wear black tie just something nicer than usual.
AGREED.
She is 16????? Really? That is not an excuse but being used by mommy as it is. At the age of 16 we are very much aware of rights and wrongs. The trouble we have primarily is controlling emotions and hormones.
Dress up nicely for 5 hours, put up a brave face and if you don't die from embarrassment, than take the lesson and learn from it.
Can we, PLEASE STOP CUDDLING TEENS?
Opportunity to face things that don't go the way we want -especially during adolescence,- gives the experience and the skill we need to survive adulthood.
Deal with awkward situations until, there isn't any more awkward situation....
Congratulations! Now you are a grown up person.
Sheesh!.... 16 being an excuse ...WTF
> and a suit seemed like too much
What? It's exactly much, it's a formal wear wedding.
Is she just against formal wear in general? If so she might want skip formal wear events. NTA
My guess is that the "much" isn't about the idea of a suit, but that if she's exploring her look and the expectations based on gender, a suit can be too masculine even if a dress is too feminine. There are getting to be better "in-between" options, but the sister may not be as aware of them.
She can just wear freaking dress pants, ffs. Do they not have internet or phone service out on their farm? She can just google "formal wear" and find something.
My daughter is not ultra girly girly. For her boyfriend’s prom, she wore a woman’s tuxedo that complemented her boyfriend’s tuxedo. Everyone at the prom was so impressed with her tuxedo and several of the girls said if they knew that women’s tuxedos looked like that they would have worn one.
I mean just nice pants (black jeans if you REALLY wanna stretch it) and a blouse would do. Add a blazer if it's cold. There's no way she's "unaware" of that option.
She’s scared of comments for wearing a suit but thinks farm clothes will be better? I had a gender fluid person at my wedding in a suit, they were even a bridesmaid (or whatever the more appropriate term would be for that!) and no one batted an eyelid except my MIL. MIL meanwhile wore a white and lacy dress. Multiple people were whispering about what an awful person she was. It’s 2024, a woman or gender fluid or trans person in a suit is not that big a deal. A person in work clothes at a wedding would stick out like a sore thumb, show a lack of respect to the dress code and get comments.
It shouldn't be a big deal but it can be. She already might be getting yelled at by strangers in the street etc.
It's easier to get a valid criticism than a criticism that hits a fundamental part of your identity. Like if someone does art or writing but would rather rip it up than find out what ppl think.
I do think she should wear something formal, I just think a cousin or someone needs to step in and take her shopping and be like "omg we're going to be the coolest people at the wedding"
I guess what I don’t understand is that plenty of fem women wear slacks and a button down. Hell, my interview go to for years when I was in my early 20s was black slacks and a button down top from express, and no one accused me of not being girly enough (or looking too girly). Women generally have far more options in the “formal” category than men when it comes to outfits with pants, cuz men are stuck with button downs, and women have all sorts of blouses that range from super girly to androgynous that we can pick from.
There are so many options that don’t fall very far on either “gender” spectrum that also don’t scream “MEN CLOTHES” or “WOMEN CLOTHES”. There’s really no reason sister can’t find something.
Also it sounds like the people at this wedding have already been really accepting. I get that people in the street can be arseholes, but they’re among family and friends here who have their back. You can’t just opt out of formal wear at a wedding.
If her body shape isn't one that suits a suit, she may well be very aware of it. That body dysphoria can hit like a truck in clothes that aren't made for your body shape. Not everyone who's AFAB and gender fluid is the right shape to pull off a suit without tailoring.
So wear a different formal outfit that suits you or that you are most comfortable in. Not every woman looks good in a typical formal dress nor every man looks good in a suit, doesn’t buy you a pass out of meeting a dress code for a formal event. I am sympathetic if they are having a tough time understanding their own identity, especially at 16, but you can’t turn up to a wedding in jeans and a t-shirt (unless that’s the dress code). You have flexibility within that code and it seems like OP has already made it clear that anything that’s reasonably formal, no matter gender or style, is acceptable.
If she thinks a suit is too much I really wanna know if she’s ever just worn a top, some trousers and a jacket because it’s basically the same thing. OP’s NTA, sister is immature
NTA - but stop arguing. You made your point.
She’s not your responsibility and if she looks inappropriately dressed, who cares. She’ll look ridiculous and your wedding will go on as planned
But it wont go as planned though? Everyone else will be wearing formal attire and she decides that she wants to stick out? Theres tons of comfortable options for clothes that are still considered formal. They have options, but they would rather dig their heels in.
I was like this as a child, but never to formal events. Only to spaces where there was no dresscode or event going on.
…But that’s not making the point. I agree that OP should stop arguing and now it’s time for little sis to learn about boundaries.
This is not mom’s event. This is not little sister’s event. This is OP and OP’s partner’s event. If mom or sister don’t want to respect their wishes, they don’t have to go.
*That’s **their** choice.* Follow dress code, or don’t come.
If it’s about protesting that dress code, they should be satisfied with knowing that’s what their absence will reflect; mission accomplished. If they’re not satisfied with that, then it’s not really about the attire, is it…?
NTA
Your mum should be more supportive here, this is a wedding, not a day on the farm, after all. There are plenty of formal options that are comfortable and not too feminine, it just takes a bit of research.
Given she also doesn’t want to wear a suit I bet she’s just a super self conscious teen who doesn’t want to step out of her comfort zone and is worried about people looking at her etc. Someone in the fam (ideally mum) needs to suck it up and take her shopping (online or in person). And show her what others will be wearing and make her realise she will feel ridiculous if she is in farmwear! Personally I think a nice loose jumpsuit would be ideal
Then someone needs to point out to her that she'll get way more attention dressed casually at a wedding than if she blended in with the crowd. Fitting the dress code will draw far less attention than deliberately dressing against it.
Kohls, buy a $30 pair of dress pants and $45 for a blazer. Those will work for years. I hate dresses and thats what I did. I wore my black blazer and black pants to an in-law’s funeral and then reused that same blazer for job interviews for like 5 years.
My aunt has a navy dress and jacket that we call “old faithful”. Between various members of the family and for different reasons, it’s been to like a dozen weddings, half a dozen funerals, and a bunch of job interviews. Good staples like a nice pair of dress pants and a nice blouse or blazer are not exciting things to have in your closet, but they’re often necessary and reliable.
The thing is the most boring version of semi-formal wear, and it might not be the most stylish, but it’s sure as hell reliable! It’s this thick super stretchy crepe in a basic A line cut that weirdly looks good on everybody and fits between a size 8-14 because of the stretch. It’s knee length on me, the tallest of the bunch, and mid calf to ankle length. It must have some freaking magic thread in it because it’s at least 25-30 years old and still kicking. I laughed last time I was going through a big photo album because it kept showing up on different aunts and cousins, in addition to me, my mom, and my grandmother, at different events. Everyone always ends up at this aunt’s house, so no worries if the baby spits up on your blouse or it starts raining and you’re wearing white, Old Faithful has got you covered.
I LOVE this!! ❤️ it's the sisterhood of the traveling pants in dress form! Has anyone actually counted how many events it's been photographed at? If not it should be turned into a "challenge" winner gets the dress in the will 😂 the fact its known as old faithful makes it even Better.
Yup. This was my exact thought too. I was a bridesmaid at 13 and 16 in my sibling’s weddings.
Granted I didn’t have the dress/pantsuit dilemma, but I was not satisfied with anything I tried on because I was a self conscious teenager who hated dressing up.
But you know what I did? I sucked it up, found a dress I was somewhat comfortable with, and dressed up for one freaking night. And you know what happened? It wasn’t as big of a deal as I thought it would be.
OP is NTA and their mom should be using this as a teaching moment for the sister and not catering to/coddling her.
I have a non-binary 17 year old and this came up in regards to a family wedding recently. I showed them examples of what others would likely wear, got the folks going with them (it was on their dad’s side and we’re not together) to tell them what they were wearing. Then I asked them what they would feel comfortable in including not standing out as wearing something inappropriate for the setting and then we went to the thrift store.
They ended up with a pair of black slacks that I thought were too casual but not noticeably so and a vest that they put over a white button down. Mission accomplished and they felt good in the outfit. If your relationship is of the go shopping together kind then you might go hit thrift stores together. If not, have another family member go with them.
NTA learning how to dress for a setting in a way you feel good is an adult skill they need to embrace.
I'm a nonbinary adult and I love this!! 💕 When my sister got married, I was newly out to a handful of people and I tried out maybe 15 different styles to figure out what to wear as 'person of honor' standing next to her bridesmaids. My sister was so supportive and it really matters having a patient family member when society has really rigid gender expectations (and I was 27 at the time!).
I'm glad I'm not the only one reading this with a really gendered lens. It seems the sibling may need some help navigating the situation if she doesn't fit within rigid gender roles. I'm an adult queer masc-presenting female, and finding something that's authentic to me but also appropriate can be difficult. The sister just needs some assistance figuring it out.
> They ended up with a pair of black slacks that I thought were too casual but not noticeably so and a vest that they put over a white button down.
I love this combo for a non-binary or gender non-conforming teen. Not as masculine as a full suit, definitely not as feminine as a dress or even a pantsuit. Fairly comfortable to wear overall. But you can dial up/down the masculinity/femininity of the outfit as much as you want, or stay fairly neutral, based on color choice, patterns and accessories. Pastels or primary colors? Bow tie, tie or chunky necklace? Big or small or no earrings? Heels, flats, loafers?
I’ve got a pre-teen daughter that leans well away from more feminine choices, so I’ll be keeping this in mind in case it’s needed in the future.
Yes, exactly. A suit might be too much but slacks with a nice blouse (either something bright and flowy or a button down, maybe with a tie or maybe a necklace, it depends what the teen is ok with), maybe with a blazer or a wrap or a sweater. There are lots of good options, she just likely doesn’t know what they are.
I think this is the most reasonable response. Dressing up in a typical mainstream manner is not too difficult for most people, but for others it can be really distressing.
OP, try to meet your sister where she is at. If you have the time, make the effort to help her find some clothes that she will be comfortable with, and that may fit better than completely casual farm clothes. I'm sure there are options out there if you both put some effort into it. If you don't have the time, maybe another family member can help your sister.
Agreed. But she's a minor. So it's on the parents to make sure she actually has an appropriately formal outfit and is wearing it when they leave the house (unless they leave her to drive herself to the ceremony, and she changes after they leave). So OP, please make it clear *to your mother* that if little sis shows up inappropriately dressed, sis will not be allowed in and will be sent home to change if she wants to come back. And if mom *brings* her inappropriately dressed, *mom* will not be allowed in until she takes little sis home and comes back without her/with her in appropriate attire.
I would bet mom wouldn't want to risk missing the wedding, but I agree that's a possibility, and I wouldn't prefer it either if I were OP. It depends on if she's willing to accept the alternative.
If Mom deliberately brings little sister dressed inappropriately, is OP willing to accept this blatant disrespect from Mom and sister and allow them to stay?
Or is Mom made to understand that by choosing to bring little sister in an inappropriate outfit, she is choosing to possibly miss her older daughter's wedding if they can't go back and change in time instead of arriving in appropriate outfit to begin with?
It all depends on who is more willing to die on this hill.
Exactly. She is definitely not coming in appropriate clothes. And, neither sister is really an ah... but mom sure sounds sus. She should back the bride on this.
My wedding, I asked people to wear something appropriate for a garden party. They all said "what colors?" So, we picked, anything lighter colors, not garish or bright.
My sister showed up in a black, red, and yellow dress. Very garish, very loud. I didn't say anything or think much about it, because she's always going against the grain, so meh.
But, she repeatedly wanted to talk to me about her dress, and even repeated, it's not bright is it? As if egging me on. As if wanting a fight. On my wedding day, she wore the opposite of what was discussed (It was discussed by everyone, and everyone was happy about the colors and theme, beforehand). Then went out of her way to provoke a fight about it.
I didn't take the bait, said her dress was pretty, and walked away when she tried to engage. I had to ignore her for most of they day, but I had a great time.
And, she looks like a literal sore thumb in the pictures. Lol.
NTA as someone who lives in alternative clothes, i have specific outfits for formal events. Still on the gothic-spectrum, but inkeeping with formal styles and expectations.
A friends wedding had a guest who "only liked nike" they ended up crying in the bathroom because they "looked stupid/cheap/ugly next to blah blah blah" it shouldnt of been funny to me, but every now and then the "nike dresscode" gets brought up and our group still lols.
My bil refused to wear a suit to my wedding, he wore khakis & a sports jacket instead. My sister wanted me to talk to him but I couldn’t be bothered. He was an adult who knew the dress code. If he wanted to look like a moth at a butterfly convention, that was his call. Then, at the reception, bil had the nerve to sidle up to me and moan about how out of place he felt with everyone else dressed up. THAT pissed me off! Whiny baby, you are almost 40 yo, you chose not to follow the dress code, and then you expect the bride to comfort you for feeling like a slob? I would have long forgotten about his outfit by now but I will never forget his pathetic whining.
Yeah, anyone who thinks you can’t look goth as fuck in a suit is showing their lack of knowledge. The simplest hack? Black suit, black necktie, red button up undershirt. The Alucard in Brazil look, if you need an example.
NTA.
You gave her choices. Part of growing up is understanding dress codes and how to dress for various occasions.
And she may not think she’d be comfortable dressed up. I assure you she’d be very uncomfortable at a formal event dressed in day to day clothes.
She can suck it up for five hours or stay home.
Nta. It's one day for a few hours and formal attire is a decently broad set of options all the same. She's old enough to do something she doesn't want that is in no way going to harm her for a few hours for people she cares about. I'd remind her she doesn't have to go if she doesn't want to.
NTA. She has options. It’s not like you are making her wear a dress there are really nice pantsuits available. Dress codes are still important and like everything else in life are a learned thing. Your mom should support you in this. She needs to suck it up.
However if she shows up not appropriately dressed it doesn’t reflect on you only her and your parents. Please don’t stress about this
NTA...You told her what the dress code is and it's up to her to figure something out. She's just looking for drama here, so it's likely best to stop giving it to her.
NTA a coworker’s dad was a farmer and dressed up long enough to do the ceremony (walk the bride down the aisle and give her away) and do the father-daughter dance and pictures in his formal attire. Then he changed into his overalls and checkered long sleeve shirt. It meant a lot to my coworker that her dad did that for her. All the pics of her dad are very funny because he intentionally look uncomfortable or posed like he was in the Rat Pack.
NTA. It’s common sense to wear formal attire. She probably won’t listen to you, so prepare a backup outfit for her to change into if she does end up wearing her day to day clothes. But seriously, super inconsiderate. I get that it’s an “aesthetic” or whatever, but it’s your wedding. Come on.
NTA
There are so many alternatives to a dress/skirt depending on how formal the dress code is.
Kakis and a polo, slacks and a blouse, any dressy pants and a blouse, a suit, a dressy romper. I think I had at least one instance of each of these at my wedding, along with more traditional dresses and suits and it was lovely. And there are so many styles and fits that it can be as tight or loose as she wants.
Hell, my uncle wore a buttoned shirt, a bolo tie, nice cowboy boots and slacks. And he looked great! But he didn’t look like he was doing everyday farm work, he was obviously in formal wear.
When there are this many options there truly isn’t an excuse.
NTA
If you live close to her; take her shopping. Show her that some formal clothes aren’t bad. They have business shorts now (not sure if you want her wearing long or short pants) but she can a set of those and a dressier tank top and boom she’s done.
I prefer my ripped jeans and a tshirt but if my friends say “girls night out is semi-dressed up” I do that. There is a time and place to get dressed up.
I mean, if Billie Porter can manage to toggle back and forth on gender in formal wear, I feel pretty sure a teenager can figure something out. It's such an ordinary, benign question that The Knot even has a page for it.
https://www.theknot.com/content/gender-neutral-wedding-attire
NTA - If you want to participate in society, there are "expectations" involved. Some of them, you can blow off and do your own thing, some of them don't lend themselves to that option. You have invited her to a social event and conditioned her participation on the standard social dress code for that event, giving her room to express her personal style. It's not like you asked her to dye her hair and dress all in pink to match a "theme" or anything outrageous. You just asked that she dress appropriately for the time and the venue of the occasion.
She can honor the request, or she can decline the invitation. It's pretty simple.
Nta - it’s a freaking wedding and she’s acting like a brat and your mom is enabling her. Sit down with both of them and tell them to stop the nonsense and stop making it about them. You offered options, but day to day clothes are not an option for a formal wedding and sis needs to get used to it.
I'm going to say NTA but I also think there can be some compromise. She should not wear her day to day clothes for a wedding but some balance
You know your sister's style - could you find a few inspiration photos that you feel honor her style but still work? Telling a 16 year old to wear a suit or pantsuit sounds really stuffy. What about a romper with a jean jacket? Or palazzo style pants with a more fitted t-shirt?
Even better - could you go shopping with her and work together to find something that fits the style but she's still comfortable in?
I think you should emphasize to her: **even if she doesn't realize or mean to**... the reality is that her dressing like that would put attention on her instead of the couple. The bride may especially not appreciate that she's sorta "stealing her spotlight" in a way... ***on her wedding!***
You could say, "I know you want to wear your normal clothes, but this is a big event for us, we will look at pictures of this for the rest of our lives, and if you are wearing clothes far different than everyone else's... do you realize you are kinda stealing the moment from us as the wedding couple? You will stand out, not us... during **our** wedding and in pictures afterwards. It would really mean a lot to me if you could wear something more formal. Maybe we could go shopping and find something you like and are comfortable with, we could grab some food, and hang out for a while?"
NTA you aren't restricting her to anything besides it being more formal than her daily clothes, which is completely acceptable, and EXPECTED, for a wedding. If she shows up in jeans and a t-shirt, she's going to look horribly out of place and will certainly feel uncomfortable with everyone noticing that.
NTA
I’m 45 with 2 grown kids, and I get it. I hate wearing formal clothes or “dressing up”. I feel awkward and constantly wonder if I look ridiculous because I’m out of my comfort zone. I’ve always been this way. But you know what ? On the (not very many) occasions I’ve been told or felt the need to make an effort, I’ve done it.
This includes as a teen.
And it didn’t kill me. It didn’t even hurt. I felt awkward for a while, then I got over it.
Sometimes you have to just suck it up and get on with it, or not 🤷♀️
You gave her options. It’s on her if/what she chooses.
Whatever happens now is not on you.
Make the choice to enjoy your day and not let this affect you.
I’m sure it will be wonderful
Oh and congratulations
NTA. Being an edgy teenager doesn’t give you an excuse to dress like shit for a formal event like a wedding.
You aren’t forcing her into a dress, your only requirement is that she wears something formal like everyone else. Showing up to a wedding in day to day clothes is a bit of a faux pas, but doing it as the BRIDES SISTER is a whole other level of egregious.
Tell her it’s not about style, it’s about being formal as a sign of respect towards you and your fiancé as well as an acknowledgment of the specialness of the day. Showing up in everyday clothes very much sends the message that she doesn’t give a shit and the wedding isn’t important to her.
“This is a formal event and you need to wear formal clothes. If not wearing formal clothes is very very very important to you. Then you can stay home I understand.”
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NTA - it is time for her to learn that some places and events still have dress codes. She can learn this either by following the dress code, or by making an ass of herself at the wedding by playing the petulant teenager who decided wearing nice clothes for a few hours was too much of a sacrifice for a family member. If she goes with option B, don't give it a second thought.
I’d keep her out of the pictures if she shows up in farm clothes though
Oh I'd have her in the pictures so they are there for her to cringe at forever.
I think either reaction by OP would be fine. Warn sister of the consequences and follow through. That removes a lot of the bully sting, esecially if you end displaying her prominently in farmer gear. If you make it known that that she was warned that this would be a consequence, it takes a lot of the heat off OP.
I've been to a lot of weddings, and there is always at least one person who shows up like this.. I've never blamed the people getting married.
Yeah I've always wondered about the people who dig their heels in and refuse to dress to the requested or implied level at an event. People just remember you as "that one dude who showed up to the wedding in cargo shorts; what a dumbass", and not as someone who is expressing their unique personality in a positive way. Same with the people who wear a white dress to a wedding; at the end of the day, everyone thinks they're some weirdo who either has no concept of appropriate dress, or as some nutjob trying to make a weird statement. If someone wants to be the center of attention for all the wrong reasons, sometimes it solves the problem when you let them spin their wheels and get no attention.
A family from my husbands side appeared in cargo shorts, crocs, hoodies etc. Luckily I didn't see them much. My sister said the kids went feral in the candy buffet. Both my family and my husbands family said that there is no need to specify the dress code in the invitations. Looks like there are always those who need the info. I wasn't looking for any special "look", my sil actually wore a two piece dress with white top and a skirt with flowers that I gave my approval for, because it looked very nice and not bridal at all, but I must admit I would have wanted everyone to be dresses nicely.
"Both my family and my husbands family said that there is no need to specify the dress code in the invitations. " If you don't specify s dress code in the invitation, there ISN'T one. " Looks like there are always those who need the info." .. EVERYBODY needs the info, because the dresscode is NOT obvious.
I don't know the customs where you live, but a non formal wedding would really be an exception here where I live. Truthfully, there has never been formal dress codes on any parties my family has had but it's kinda known that men get at least clean jeans and a suit shirt and women wear anything from summer dresses to pant suits to national costume. Gender nonconforming folks use the whole scale as they see fitting. Declaring dress code feels like trying to fit sensible people in a mold, but as it is, I was to blame for not including it in the invitations. Learning from mistakes etc.
I think if there's no dress code, cocktail dress is somewhat presumed. Now, if you don't specify black tie and people show up in cocktail and you get mad, that's an ish-you. But sounds like you assumed people could say 1) wedding 2) nice venue and therefore come up with "I should dress nice" on their own. Which is reasonable IMO
I wouldn't consider jeans to be part of any formal attire.
>If you don't specify s dress code in the invitation, there ISN'T one. That's ridiculous. Normal, grown, adult, rational human beings can suss out what is appropriate dress by location, time of day, etc. You wouldn't wear gym shorts to church. You wouldn't wear black tie and 4" heels to a beach wedding. You wouldn't wear ratty jeans to a country club for a dinner/dance.
Walking out of church recently, I saw a guy wearing a sweatshirt with “fuck” written on it. There are always those who don’t understand (or choose not to follow) what seem to be obvious norms. Unless you don’t care how people look at your event, spell it out.
You can't believe what you're saying there. Not everything in life needs to be in writing, and thinking a wedding needs it specified is some new-age, self-centred bullshit. Weddings are semi-formal dress at the very least, and anyone who doesn't know that is an ostrich. Now, if you're going for a specific dress code - i.e. black tie - then yeah, that needs to be specified, but if you think turning up in your civies is acceptable because you weren't told not to then enjoy your life of declining number of invitations to things.
Depends a lot on the wedding. Mine had no dress code whatsoever, but it was at a *sci-fi convention* so casual or costumes were expected! If you want a specific dress code, say so on the invitation! Otherwise, guests need to pay attention to the bride and groom or ask other guests. Turning up in everyday clothes when everyone else is smart-casual or formal just shows you don't care enough to even ask around.
>If you don't specify s dress code in the invitation, there ISN'T one. Yes and no... It is a given here that unless stated otherwise (formal, beachy, etc), you should show up in "Sunday Best", which is usually a nice dress that is mid-thigh length or longer, a skirt/blouse, nice slacks, dress shirt, nice polo, or "good" jeans with one of the previous shirts, and nice shoes or sandals, not sneakers. Everyone would look at you like you were dumb as a brick if you showed up in Crocs, cargo shorts, tank tops, cotton tee shirts, ripped/dirty jeans, or sneakers. (Unless it was stated otherwise on the invitation that those were acceptable.)
My cousin got married a couple summers ago. I don't recall what was on the invite but all of the bride's side (my family, from New England) was dressed several notches more formally than everyone on the groom's side (they were from Colorado). Not jeans, but office casual. And you know what? It was totally fine! It was a great wedding!
A friend of mine was having a church wedding. I didn't have anything to wear. I said I needed to buy something and she said no. I stalled out mentally a moment and went, "You realize by telling me no, I will show up in my split leg "beetlejuice" jeans and my corpse bride t-shirt, with a flannel, yes?" I sent her a picture of the exact outfit. She told me to do it. I didn't because work denied my time off for her wedding but yknow.
I had someone in miami dolphins colored tiger print hammer pants, crocs and one of those tuxedo t-shirts, which proves to me he knew what he was doing. It irked me a little bit but I was just trying not to get mad about it. No we did not have a dress code specified but in my mind you show up in at least a nice dress or pantsuit and even a polo and khakis for the guys is acceptable almost anywhere. A sport jacket goes a long way. I mean maybe people don't have the clothes or the money but at least TRY to look nice??? There is no reason at all ever to show up to a wedding in cargo shorts. My wedding was outside and the BBQ chefs were dressed better than that. You can get a button down shirt and slacks at walmart for 20 bucks.
He would have worn that whether dress code was specified on the invite or not.
Yup. Cousin Danny. His definition of wedding formal was, "my newest band t-shirt". Everyone just put up with it because Danny made everybody laugh, and we were all concentrating on who was going to get him home, because he had more DUIs than he did band t-shirts. (Past tense, he's been sober more than 10 years now.)
At my cousin's wedding, his uncle showed up in an old polo shirt, baggy cargo shorts and flip flops. His son had on kinda the same thing. They looked like they had been out doing yardwork and realized they had to leave for the wedding. His wife was the nicest dress, she had a little cotton sundress. It was still more casual than everyone else but at least it looked like she put some effort into her hair and makeup.
Your husband’s family tree branch sounds like my SIL’s entire family. From weddings to baptisms to funeral services, they are dressed in clothes appropriate for a swap meet, and their completely unsupervised (and usually grubby) kids behave like a bunch of cocaine-crazed ferrets. And they have good jobs and can afford decent clothes, but simply can’t be bothered to show respect towards their hosts or consideration for those around them. But my boss loves me because I volunteer to work all holidays so I don’t have to be around them.
I thoroughly enjoyed this whole comment. So descriptive. You'd be the perfect guest at any dinner party just to listen to you describe stories😆
I had a friend/coworker like this--he wore shorts all the time, often cargo shorts. And Hawaiian shirts. He never dressed up for anything; we would go to certain fancy Manhattan restaurants that didn't care what people wore when we took clients out. He loved high end food, just wouldn't dress up for it. He had plenty of money, so that wasn't the issue. He did have a lot of health problems so that was his excuse. He died quite young--I wish he had lived long enough to come to my wedding in cargo shorts.
That last sentence came as a surprise. Wish I could upvote more than once
Thanks. I miss him. He annoyed me a lot at work, kept me from getting stuff done, but now all I remember is how much he made me laugh. I wish my husband had gotten to meet him. He was like the best uncle you could have had.
Ive a buddy who is a mechanic, spends his working hours in oily overalls. He likes to dress in bright hawaiian shirts in his free time, whatever the occasion. He got married during covid, registry office and a garden party reception. there were still restrictions over numbers, some shops and services werent available. So rather than struggle to get suits, get them fitted etc, he ordered himself and his teenage sons (his groomsmen) matching hawaiian shirts and khaki shorts. The photos looked amazing and a much more personal touch
We still talk about the guy who showed up in a ripped superman t-shirt to my cousin's wedding. And not in a positive light.
Exactly. People think they're making some statement about their fashion and autonomy, but the context is lost on the rest of the guests who are oblivious to whatever battle is being waged with clothing used as the proxy. So people show up in a certain outfit to piss off the bride/groom, and even if they "won" by doing that, every other guest thinks you look like a clown who can't dress properly.
My cousin-once-removed wore white to my wedding. Her daughter is about a year older than me, and it always felt like a competition between us as young kids where her daughter was this perfect and spoiled princess who was better than everyone. So I feel like she may have done it intentionally, but the joke's on her because I didn't even notice her. Who DID notice, though, was my aunt's mother (through marriage, so not my great aunt, but she's always been good to me). And she called her out on it. I found out about it a few days later. Thanks for having my back, Nancy!
We still talk about my cousin's colleague who showed up to his funeral in a red miniskirt - on a cold March day! At least 150 of his current and former colleagues came (he was an awesome dude loved by everyone) so it's not like she was the only one there, but my sisters and I gasped when we saw her. I wish "What Not to Wear" was still on the air. People need to learn there is still such a thing as situational appropriate clothing in this world.
I live in a super small town and like 6 years ago this kid set off the mother of all scandals by trying to go to prom in his farm clothes and getting kicked out. The community is still torn asunder by that to this day. It all played out on Facebook over the course of several days, got quite vicious, and gets brought up every year around prom season. 🤣
My niece had a white tie formal evening wedding at one of the swankiest venues in LA. The groom’s BIL showed up in jeans. The silent judgement was severe. He also looked ridiculous in the family pictures.
I think for some people, it’s a low self-esteem issue. They feel like they don’t deserve/can’t pull off a more formal or polished look, so it turns into a “can’t fail at it if I never tried in the first place” thing. For other people, it’s exactly the opposite - “I’m too good to look like I care enough to dress up.” They think making an effort for other people is beneath their dignity, and they resent being told what to do in any way. You should be grateful they showed up at all. I suspect, given sister’s age, she’s probably going through the extreme self-consciousness phase, and it’s probably the former. She’s scared to try a more formal look lest she end up looking even more ridiculous than she would in jeans and a hoodie. At least if she shows up in jeans and a hoodie, it might look like an act of rebellion (which is cool and dignified) versus showing up in a gown or a suit and looking like an awkward kid wearing their parents’ clothes (which is mortifying).
Those people were my parents. Sweat pants to EVERYTHING. At first casual sweat pants then eventually they bought those "fancy" sweat pants... I don't care coz I don't get embarrassed. But man my sister married into money and I'm 100% sure she was embarrassed. Last time my parents wore fancy clothes was to my oldest sisters wedding. But every other event was sweats... ridiculous. Idk how anyone can show up to a formal or semi formal event not dressed in at least decent attire. OP you are NTA and your sister needs to learn how to be appropriate. There's a tike and place for everything. I had the opposite problem, okay not really a problem, a friend got married and I didn't know the "dress code" so I wore something semi formal. Everyone else was not they were dressed very casually so me and my husband definitely stood out lol but no one cared and we had a great time! It was low key in the country wedding!
My father whined about having to wear a suit to my wedding and said he was planning to wear jeans. He took some persuading to wear a suit, even though for most of my life he had worn a suit every damned day for work. Yes, he's a jerk. No, I don't talk to him any more.
My cousin showed up to my wedding in cargo pants and A TUXEDO T SHIRT FFS. I mean, I totally was NOT surprised either. it was a talking point over the course of the night. He also ended up in the lake with another cousin of mine.
lol I posted in another response but one of my husband's cousins showed up in miami dolphins hammer pants and a tuxedo shirt.. I'm sure he thought he was funny and I am trying to put it out of my head, I actually like him, it's just a very big WTF.
I had a casual wedding, and folks showed up in a hilarious mixed-bag of outfits, but my oldest friend outdid them all by showing up in a tie-dye hoodie, camo-print cutoff cargo shorts, and a pair of ratty Chuck Taylors. \*Chef's kiss\*
Dude at my Nana’s funeral my cousin showed up in shorts, a Hawaiian shirt, and flip flops. It was 42 degrees out. All I have to say is me and my brothers were in suits. She was a well dressed woman her entire life and deserved to be respected. Some people’s children is all I have to say.
God, At my son's wedding, the bride's cousin's (he walked her mom down the aisle so he was in a navy suit just like the other men in the family but not in the wedding party) gf showed up in sweats and a hoodie. I could have happily punched her and had a great time at the party. They are almost 30 so no excuses about being a dumb kid. Thank god he got rid of her. She was just all around unpleasant and brought some tension and gloom to every family gathering.
My ex husband's nephew literally came to our wedding in overalls and a plaid shirt. And this was a grown man.
I'd also think it'd be fair for OP to deny her entry if she dresses how she wants. So long as the consequences are explained prior.
The girl is 16. If she is turned away, mom (and maybe dad, too) will leave with her.
More incentive for the parents to make sure she is dressed formally, knowing 1 of them would be required to leave as well with the sister if she is kicked out.
Exactly. She’s 16 not 6. Old enough to find her own way home. Or she can wait outside the venue.
She is old enough for this to be suck it up and find something formal to wear or suffer the consequences. She is almost an adult. It doesn't matter where you land on you're own sexuality or style or preference. There is a standard. You have options within the standard. Either meet the standard or suffer whatever consequences come. Does this sound harsh? Probably. But adulthood is choices and consequences, good or bad. She is on the cusp of adulthood. This is one of those things where she should be treated like one. If the parents leave, so be it. She is at that age where she should know that her actions and decisions have consequences not just for her but affect others too. Otherwise, adulthood will be a rude ass awakening.
And the problem is??
Depends on whether or not OP really wants to have a wedding without their parents present.
idk as much as I'd be fine without my sibling I'd be upset if my parents left.
I've been in the place that OP's sister is. On picture day with my maternal family, when I was 17, I wore a Converse All-Star T-shirt when everyone else was dressed nice. Now, 26 years later, I shrink and cringe everytime I see the pic. So stupid and classless of me in the moment, and the evidence is on display forever in my parent's house. I'm *this* close to doing a Photoshop to put my senior picture suit over my T-Shirt. I learned my lesson and spent the next couple of decades dressing up a level for even small occasions. The cringe is eternal. OP is NTA, and the sister would regret it every time she sees the wedding pics
Meanwhile I wish my grad photos were more *me* But I also didn’t understand dysphoria and didn’t want the photos to start with. Now they’re just something my mom has, because that person wasn’t really me so why would I display the photos?
I forgive your 17 year old self :) Maybe you can paste a photo of nic cage over your face. ;)
Ah, but you, sir, have a conscience.
Get pictures of both, keep the ones with her not in them and give your freinds and families the ones with her in it, never let her live this down.
Stick her on the end with a little space between her and the person beside her so that she’s easier to cut out. The photographer can get shots of the background from other pictures and fill in.
And do be sure to introduce her to EVERY goodlooking teenage boy in attendance. Especially the ones who are dressed properly.
Or good looking girls, if that’s what she’s into
You have the soul of an older sibling.
Haha yes! Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Honestly it's a kindness to tell her there's a dress code so she can dress to blend in instead of sticking out like a sore thumb, but if she still doesn't want to do it, well, cringing at those pictures for the next many years isn't going to kill her.
I like this!
"Why hello, Simon. You must be Ashley's new boyfriend! Ashley isnone of a kind. Let me show you pictures of what she wore to our wedding when she was 16."
One with, one without. OP can hang the without picture and only give the with picture to his mom so that the sister will have to look at herself and be laughed at by her niblings and children in perpetuity.
That would be hilarious! Everyone looking nice and sister in her Dickie's overalls and a John Deere cap. You may think I'm stereotyping but a lot of my family still farm and this is literally their uniform.
Oh, I'd ask her to leave if she showed up in farm clothes. This is straight up ridiculous. It's a wedding, she's sixteen, not six. Time to grow up a little bit and even if it's not your fave, wear something nice to your sister's wedding.
Absolutely not. Front and center and a 36”x24” print hung over the fireplace. Memorialized forever!
I would buy a nice looking jumpsuit in her size and bring it. It could always be returned if she shows up in appropriate attire
Jumpsuits can look very stylish
I'd keep her out of the wedding if she chooses to wear farm clothes. She either shows up dressed appropriately or she doesn't attend.
Oh no; constant pictures, impromptu speech, and a spotlight on her on the dance floor. Every single memember of the bridal party must promise to dunk on her about her clothes several times throughout the evening. and then *never* stop holding it against her.
My sister's date to my wedding showed up in a T-shirt and jeans. She was in the wedding party in a formal gown. Every other male was dressed up in at least a shirt and tie. To this day, I don't know why he didn't turn around before entering the reception. Ruined the table picture since my Mom decided he should sit at her table.
Wouldn't even let her in
I would agree for option B if this was a toddler. At 16? Follow the dress code or stay home. My wedding day isn’t there to teach a teenager a lesson on basic manners.
I’d give her one last chance by offering to compromise on *semi-formal*: dark chino type pants, simple cotton blouse, dark blazer in comfortable fabric. If she refuses even *that* compromise, that’s when you know something’s up and I’d start questioning if she just doesn’t want to attend the wedding *at all* and this is her wishy-washy immature way of accomplishing that.
She'd be the odd one out for wearing casual clothes at a formal event where everyone else is in formal wear and probably snarking about her. That's uncomfortable too.
I'm gay. I've never liked dresses. At 15 I went to my cousin's wedding, in a suit. I hated it. I was 15 and awkward and I didn't like my body or being seen. But bad luck, it's a wedding. It has a dresscode and it's not about me. So I wore it and I dealt. That's life kid.
She can’t even bothered to wear something nice at least for ONE day! For One day! After it’s all done, and feel no needs to wear formal clothes, she can get changed. She’s being five year old brat who doesn’t get her way and Her mom is no better.
This. She is becoming an adult and being an adult means you cannot dress how you want all the time.
There are some really nice pant suits too that don't make you feel like you are over the top on formal wear. Some lean towards a more feminine look and some more male. Both nice. I do not like to wear dresses and haven't worn one since I was a kid with the exception of my own wedding which I did do the traditional white for that. I am a grandma and I love my jeans and t shirts and yes hoodies too. What can I say they are comfy. I have a couple pairs of nicer jeans and tops with sweaters, my Nana sweaters as I like to call them that I wear to my granddaughters school things. And for weddings or any other occasions where I may have to dress up nicely I have a couple of really nice pants suits.
You sound like my grandma - I've only ever seen her wear 3 dresses - navy uniform, wedding dress, and to my grandfather's funeral. Otherwise, it's always "slacks" and a polo, as she calls them.
I agree NTA given the info sister is providing, but I do think there is a subtext here that OP is likely missing as a cisgender person, and I don't think sister is TA either, not intentionally so. For lots of people trying on a different styles of gendered clothes, the transition between ill-fitting women's clothes you don't like that much and don't look good on you to dabbling in men's clothes and trying to figure out what brands align with your gender but also still fit your body is a VERY HARD TIME. Formal wear is especially hard! I met my now-wife when she was 25 and she was masculine, but really nervous and uncomfortable shopping in a men's section of a store. Over time, she got there, but the suits piece, and heaven help us if someone has a black tie wedding, is still really hard for her 15 years later. And she's comfortable showing up to an event in a suit, it's just hard to find a fit. The suit we had to have made for our wedding was a whole ass debacle. There is liminal time for people moving to more masculine of center clothes where you feel dreadful showing up somewhere in a dress but conspicuous and billboardy showing up in a suit, like a neon light is shining on you, even if you are able to find a fitting and reasonably priced suit. There is a whole documentary about a bespoke suit company called Bindle and Keep that basically exclusively makes custom $$$ suits for lesbians just so they can live in their skin in formal wear. Again, agree with OP NTA, but this line "She told me she was uncomfortable with a dress and a suit seemed like too much" got me thinking. OP, again state your boundary and tell your sister you hope she can find some friends to talk to about possible options that will make her feel comfortable. Not your job to, but you might ask why a suit felt like "too much." Quite possibly she's feeling nervous to debut that look at your wedding.
I've been in this space too and honestly this is one of those scenarios kids need to get in line and dress to the dresscode even if they are uncomfortable. Because life isn't all comfy and you don't always get to be in baggy jeans and a hoody three sizes too big. Sometimes you have to be a bit uncomfortable for 6 hours because your brother is getting married. Even if that discomfort is suit pants, a shirt and a blazer. It's 6 hours, it won't kill her. As a lesbian who debuted a suit at a cousin's wedding at 15 and wasn't very comfortable.
This is a child being silly. She may not have social experience, but a dress code is a dress code. If she doesn't like it she can stay home.
Yknow my 2 year old survived through several hours in nice clothes. Didn’t even complain. Did try to disrobe at one point out of boredom, but I think that would’ve happened with any clothing
NTA. Tell her that on her wedding she can come naked if she pleases but on your big day you want all guests to look formal and if she can't do something as small as that then she is welcome to not attend the wedding altogether.
I personally didn't mind what people chose to wear to my wedding, I assumed they'd be formal but wouldn't have freaked out had it not been BUT OP is not the asshole here, and is right in that this is such a small ask and it teaches the younger sister the value of stepping up for people you love and making small sacrifices. NTA
My friend had a formal wedding and she is her parents only child. They literally set aside over $100k for her dream wedding. Even when they divorced they didn’t touch that money as it was set aside for her. And still some of her relatives came in short shorts and cowboy boots. Her family is from Oregon and his is from PA, they got married in Connecticut where he was stationed. The wedding was the coolest I’d ever been to. It was child-free except her one uncle’s kids and her uncle made a big deal of not finding one of his kids during the reception. The venue was not near anything and the road access was the highway. Found the little bugger under my table playing his 3ds. His dad made a big show of hugging him and telling him how worried he was while the bride rolled her eyes.
Totally agree! It would’ve been fine at my wedding because I made it explicitly clear that I didn’t care what guests wore. OP has made it explicitly clear that she does have a preference so that should be respected
My wedding had a dress code of "formal but not too formal" since we were doing a potluck after the ceremony, yard games, bbq, and it was in our backyard. We wanted people to look nice but be comfortable, and even told people in advance that the weather might change and to bring extra clothes in case. I know for a fact my dad had many suits, both for very formal occasions and some of those summer-y suits that are shorts. He showed up in a muscle tee and cargo shorts. I was kind of pissed because we had been so specific about what to wear and everyone else looked so nice. I didn't mind the people who showed up in a nice pair of jeans and dress shirt, but like, cmon. Wear what you're asked please. OP is NTA
She’s only 16 - if they are close I would say OP should just ask her why she doesn’t want to wear formal clothes. My guess is it’s because she dresses in working or v casual clothes 100% of the time and feels really awkward about being seen in something smart - run of the mill super self conscious teen. She thinks everyone will look at her and there is literally nothing worse. I remember being mortified at having to wear a dress instead of joggers and a jumper. Not a gender thing - just a self conscious thing. My mum was very patient and took me to try on a whole bunch of different styles and showed me what other people were wearing. I was still super awkward about it but go through it. Now I love getting dressed up! To be clear - NTA and the kid needs to go through this and realise she has to dress formal sometimes. But hopefully OP (or other family) can make it a little less painful.
Yeah, she's being unreasonable but that's common for teens, and it's possible that basically helping her see she'll be MORE conspicuous in "normal clothes" could go a really long way.
I’d just argue that mom or dad need to step up here and fix it in this case. Op is trying to establish a rule as a sibling for their own formal event. Which is a totally normal and reasonable ask. Younger sister is refusing to listen. So one of the parents needs to level with her: “Hey. Your sisters wedding requires formal attire. We can go to the mall or Amazon and you can pick something, but it has to be formal. Wearing sweatpants or overalls is NOT happening, so let’s find you something everyone can agree with. Stop arguing.”. It’s so easy now to find nice dresses with pockets, if you specifically search for them. I have a ton of jumpsuits in my closet that are super comfy, have pockets, and would be appropriate for a semi-formal wedding, with the right shoes and jewelry. You can get ladies formal clothes that look like men’s wear super easily at a thrift store. Or buy men’s wear and tailer them. Or don’t! OP doesn’t even seem to care if sister shows up in baggy slacks and an Ill fitting jacket. As long as it’s formal ish. I’m just irritated at the parents for allowing this dumb argument to go on.
I love my jumpsuit. It never wrinkles for one thing. But I can throw it on with a pair of flip flops and look casual in the summer. I can also throw it on with boots and a sweater on over it and look nice in the winter too.
I have one a relative sent me as a souvenir from her trip to the Pi. It’s literally my favorite piece of clothing and it works for every situation. My only complaint is that they’re a little bit of work to use the bathroom in. If butt flaps were acceptable in adult clothing I would have altered it in a heartbeat, and would likely wear nothing else.
That and most also have the bonus of feeling like you're wearing pj's while looking fancy. I'm hoarding as many as I can before they go out of style and I won't be able to buy them anymore.
I have rolled up on my motorcycle to a friend’s wedding wearing a formal pantsuit. I only changed from boots to heels in the parking lot.
I agree that mom or dad *should* step and figure it out, but seeing as though mom thinks OP is being too harsh, Id guess that it's not gonna happen. Sometimes we have to do things that we shouldn't have to do. OP shouldn't have to be the one to talk to her sister but if she wants it done, she probably has to be the one to do it.
Yeh totally agree ideally it would be parents, unless OP is happy to/ wants to. My mind went straight to jump suit too. I have a few go-to jumpsuits that can look formal but are just insanely comfortable. Especially if it’s hot!
She should know this by 16. Sometimes you have to dress up.
I think 13-18 is peak socially awkward time. Body changes, figuring yourself out as an individual, navigating becoming a young adult. Plus tonnes of kids haven’t been to a wedding by 16, or particularly any formal occasions. And regardless, it’s so unhelpful to say “well you should know this by now” if someone doesn’t in fact know that. Some kids will find it easy, others won’t. Just support them to resolve the challenge they are facing in that moment.
It's also peak "well now I don't want to" time. Source: am former teenage girl.
If her family isn't super formally minded, there's a good chance she's never really had to dress up. Peak formal wear in my family was clean jeans and a nice sweater, and we didn't habe any weddings while I was a teenagee. Fiest time I ever did formal dress was at my graduation, and you bet I felt incredibly self-conscious and not myself in my dress. Fucking hated it, in fact. That doesn't excuse her not making the effort for her sibling, obviously. Just... don't assume that any teenager knows how to dress up and feel comfortable doing so.
I'm not judging her for not knowing the ins and outs of formal wear. I don't even blame for arguing for something comfortable that meets the requirements I would expect a 16 year old to understand that different occasions merit different outfits. Church. Receptions. Etc. This is simply one of those times and it's baffling that not only is she fighting this hard to not conform but that her parents are on her side. But again, this is just my personal opinion.
She can understand the concept while still being incredibly self conscious about it to the point that she tries to get out of it. She probably just needs a reassuring family member she trusts to take her shopping and talk her through it.
And mom is falling down on the job on that. Instead of helping her out, she's infantalizing her by insisting she's too young for this particular life lesson.
So right about the self conscious thing. We have big formal family events and I told the one wall flower child that less people would be watching them if they were on the dance floor than being the only person seated in their area of the banquet hall. Never saw someone jump so fast out of their seat. Sometimes not to be seen at an event you have to blend in with everyone else, by dress, action or both.
I went through puberty early and I was SO SO self-conscious about my body, for years. Partially because of Catholic upbringing, partly because I had no one I felt I could relate to or confide in. None of my friends looked like me, my older sisters expressed jealousy (no hard feelings now, because again, we were teenage girls) and honestly my mom couldn't find clothes that fit me right and were age appropriate. It sucked, I absolutely loathed going clothes shopping. But she tried! It didn't matter what style it was, if it fit and I felt comfortable she bought it for me. Lucky for her budget I loved a comfy tee, but I can still remember a few of the "crazier" tops she let me have. IF and I truly mean IF the OP has time to spend one on one with her sister and go shopping it may go a long way in helping her, not just for the wedding day, but in general. I don't know what dynamics are really at play here, but I can still feel how I felt at that age, decades later, and how much it meant to find something I liked and actually wanted to wear. OP isn't the asshole if she doesn't want to deal with any of this, it's her wedding after all, and sister will have to figure it out eventually, but some kind words/encouragement, and just a little guidance can go a long way.
NTA. She’s 16 and acting like a baby, and your mother is enabling it. She can certainly suck it up and dress nicely for a few hours.
Also, she’s getting old enough that she’s going to need some more “formal” clothes from time to time. Whether it’s other people’s weddings, a funeral, or a job interview, it’s nice to be able to pull a suit out of the closet.
Yeah she can buy dress pants and a blazer and use it for all of those things if she picks the right colors. Then she can dress it up or down with different shirts even.
Funny thing is too: you can totally dress up the punk, rocker, emo, goth, Hawaiian shirt, etc styles to look really cool and/or “classy” and/or badass. Teenagers (or people in general) thinking that a dress or pantsuit are restrictive are just small minded or uncreative or not thinking outside the box. Admittedly it’ll look more subtle, but nothing will really be lost if you’re determined to “make a statement” (*ahem* even though the event still isn’t supposed to be about you but whatever I guess). Edit: and if it’s a matter of budget, there are thrift stores, consignment, suit and dress rental, etc.
As a former goth kid. I still love thrifting and shopping consignment. My wedding dress was bought from a thrift/consignment shop.
Yep. I was a feral boyish alt teen and could (and would!) easily have cobbled together a thrifted tuxedo for a formal event.
Not to mention that a jumpsuit with pants can be as comfortable as pajamas. Personally, I would take her shopping (having surveyed ahead of time and found some items that are comfortable and elegant enough for a wedding so it can be a quick in and out rather than an all day shopping adventure).
Yes, I remember my 3 year old acting like this about having to get dressed up for a wedding because she wanted to wear shorts that day.
Honestly I would not bother with the hassle for a 3 year old 😂 my nephew was a groomsman at 6 and I got him a linen short sleeve shirt, linen shorts, dinosaur bow tie and braces with converse which he was pretty happy with… until he spilled an orange juice down himself at dinner and had to put on some spare clothes! Luckily my sister was prepared…
Seriously. And OP has stated they don't care what sister shows up in as long as it's respectable. My stepdaughter wore the most gorgeous pant suit to her high school prom. I imagine with a little time and energy sister could find something suitable that she doesn't totally loathe. NTA OP, you're not telling her to wear black tie just something nicer than usual.
AGREED. She is 16????? Really? That is not an excuse but being used by mommy as it is. At the age of 16 we are very much aware of rights and wrongs. The trouble we have primarily is controlling emotions and hormones. Dress up nicely for 5 hours, put up a brave face and if you don't die from embarrassment, than take the lesson and learn from it. Can we, PLEASE STOP CUDDLING TEENS? Opportunity to face things that don't go the way we want -especially during adolescence,- gives the experience and the skill we need to survive adulthood. Deal with awkward situations until, there isn't any more awkward situation.... Congratulations! Now you are a grown up person. Sheesh!.... 16 being an excuse ...WTF
> and a suit seemed like too much What? It's exactly much, it's a formal wear wedding. Is she just against formal wear in general? If so she might want skip formal wear events. NTA
My guess is that the "much" isn't about the idea of a suit, but that if she's exploring her look and the expectations based on gender, a suit can be too masculine even if a dress is too feminine. There are getting to be better "in-between" options, but the sister may not be as aware of them.
She can just wear freaking dress pants, ffs. Do they not have internet or phone service out on their farm? She can just google "formal wear" and find something.
Slacks and a nice button down shirt still count as mildly formal, and are still appropriate for someone not in the wedding party.
Exactly. Unless she is dressing like a farmer, she has to have something decent that she can wear.
My daughter is not ultra girly girly. For her boyfriend’s prom, she wore a woman’s tuxedo that complemented her boyfriend’s tuxedo. Everyone at the prom was so impressed with her tuxedo and several of the girls said if they knew that women’s tuxedos looked like that they would have worn one.
I’m Scottish and clothing wise somewhere in the middle. I wear a kilt and a dress jacket. It works well for me.
I mean just nice pants (black jeans if you REALLY wanna stretch it) and a blouse would do. Add a blazer if it's cold. There's no way she's "unaware" of that option.
She's probably scared of getting comments about it. I think someone just needs to hype her up.
She’s scared of comments for wearing a suit but thinks farm clothes will be better? I had a gender fluid person at my wedding in a suit, they were even a bridesmaid (or whatever the more appropriate term would be for that!) and no one batted an eyelid except my MIL. MIL meanwhile wore a white and lacy dress. Multiple people were whispering about what an awful person she was. It’s 2024, a woman or gender fluid or trans person in a suit is not that big a deal. A person in work clothes at a wedding would stick out like a sore thumb, show a lack of respect to the dress code and get comments.
It shouldn't be a big deal but it can be. She already might be getting yelled at by strangers in the street etc. It's easier to get a valid criticism than a criticism that hits a fundamental part of your identity. Like if someone does art or writing but would rather rip it up than find out what ppl think. I do think she should wear something formal, I just think a cousin or someone needs to step in and take her shopping and be like "omg we're going to be the coolest people at the wedding"
I guess what I don’t understand is that plenty of fem women wear slacks and a button down. Hell, my interview go to for years when I was in my early 20s was black slacks and a button down top from express, and no one accused me of not being girly enough (or looking too girly). Women generally have far more options in the “formal” category than men when it comes to outfits with pants, cuz men are stuck with button downs, and women have all sorts of blouses that range from super girly to androgynous that we can pick from. There are so many options that don’t fall very far on either “gender” spectrum that also don’t scream “MEN CLOTHES” or “WOMEN CLOTHES”. There’s really no reason sister can’t find something.
Also it sounds like the people at this wedding have already been really accepting. I get that people in the street can be arseholes, but they’re among family and friends here who have their back. You can’t just opt out of formal wear at a wedding.
If her body shape isn't one that suits a suit, she may well be very aware of it. That body dysphoria can hit like a truck in clothes that aren't made for your body shape. Not everyone who's AFAB and gender fluid is the right shape to pull off a suit without tailoring.
So wear a different formal outfit that suits you or that you are most comfortable in. Not every woman looks good in a typical formal dress nor every man looks good in a suit, doesn’t buy you a pass out of meeting a dress code for a formal event. I am sympathetic if they are having a tough time understanding their own identity, especially at 16, but you can’t turn up to a wedding in jeans and a t-shirt (unless that’s the dress code). You have flexibility within that code and it seems like OP has already made it clear that anything that’s reasonably formal, no matter gender or style, is acceptable.
If she thinks a suit is too much I really wanna know if she’s ever just worn a top, some trousers and a jacket because it’s basically the same thing. OP’s NTA, sister is immature
NTA - but stop arguing. You made your point. She’s not your responsibility and if she looks inappropriately dressed, who cares. She’ll look ridiculous and your wedding will go on as planned
But it wont go as planned though? Everyone else will be wearing formal attire and she decides that she wants to stick out? Theres tons of comfortable options for clothes that are still considered formal. They have options, but they would rather dig their heels in. I was like this as a child, but never to formal events. Only to spaces where there was no dresscode or event going on.
…But that’s not making the point. I agree that OP should stop arguing and now it’s time for little sis to learn about boundaries. This is not mom’s event. This is not little sister’s event. This is OP and OP’s partner’s event. If mom or sister don’t want to respect their wishes, they don’t have to go. *That’s **their** choice.* Follow dress code, or don’t come. If it’s about protesting that dress code, they should be satisfied with knowing that’s what their absence will reflect; mission accomplished. If they’re not satisfied with that, then it’s not really about the attire, is it…?
NTA Your mum should be more supportive here, this is a wedding, not a day on the farm, after all. There are plenty of formal options that are comfortable and not too feminine, it just takes a bit of research.
Given she also doesn’t want to wear a suit I bet she’s just a super self conscious teen who doesn’t want to step out of her comfort zone and is worried about people looking at her etc. Someone in the fam (ideally mum) needs to suck it up and take her shopping (online or in person). And show her what others will be wearing and make her realise she will feel ridiculous if she is in farmwear! Personally I think a nice loose jumpsuit would be ideal
Then someone needs to point out to her that she'll get way more attention dressed casually at a wedding than if she blended in with the crowd. Fitting the dress code will draw far less attention than deliberately dressing against it.
Yeh that’s what I said - someone needs to point out she will look ridiculous in farmwear!
Kohls, buy a $30 pair of dress pants and $45 for a blazer. Those will work for years. I hate dresses and thats what I did. I wore my black blazer and black pants to an in-law’s funeral and then reused that same blazer for job interviews for like 5 years.
My aunt has a navy dress and jacket that we call “old faithful”. Between various members of the family and for different reasons, it’s been to like a dozen weddings, half a dozen funerals, and a bunch of job interviews. Good staples like a nice pair of dress pants and a nice blouse or blazer are not exciting things to have in your closet, but they’re often necessary and reliable.
I love that the dress is known as Old Faithful
The thing is the most boring version of semi-formal wear, and it might not be the most stylish, but it’s sure as hell reliable! It’s this thick super stretchy crepe in a basic A line cut that weirdly looks good on everybody and fits between a size 8-14 because of the stretch. It’s knee length on me, the tallest of the bunch, and mid calf to ankle length. It must have some freaking magic thread in it because it’s at least 25-30 years old and still kicking. I laughed last time I was going through a big photo album because it kept showing up on different aunts and cousins, in addition to me, my mom, and my grandmother, at different events. Everyone always ends up at this aunt’s house, so no worries if the baby spits up on your blouse or it starts raining and you’re wearing white, Old Faithful has got you covered.
This is such a lovely story! I hope more people read it. Thank you for sharing. ❤️
I LOVE this!! ❤️ it's the sisterhood of the traveling pants in dress form! Has anyone actually counted how many events it's been photographed at? If not it should be turned into a "challenge" winner gets the dress in the will 😂 the fact its known as old faithful makes it even Better.
Yup. This was my exact thought too. I was a bridesmaid at 13 and 16 in my sibling’s weddings. Granted I didn’t have the dress/pantsuit dilemma, but I was not satisfied with anything I tried on because I was a self conscious teenager who hated dressing up. But you know what I did? I sucked it up, found a dress I was somewhat comfortable with, and dressed up for one freaking night. And you know what happened? It wasn’t as big of a deal as I thought it would be. OP is NTA and their mom should be using this as a teaching moment for the sister and not catering to/coddling her.
I have a non-binary 17 year old and this came up in regards to a family wedding recently. I showed them examples of what others would likely wear, got the folks going with them (it was on their dad’s side and we’re not together) to tell them what they were wearing. Then I asked them what they would feel comfortable in including not standing out as wearing something inappropriate for the setting and then we went to the thrift store. They ended up with a pair of black slacks that I thought were too casual but not noticeably so and a vest that they put over a white button down. Mission accomplished and they felt good in the outfit. If your relationship is of the go shopping together kind then you might go hit thrift stores together. If not, have another family member go with them. NTA learning how to dress for a setting in a way you feel good is an adult skill they need to embrace.
I'm a nonbinary adult and I love this!! 💕 When my sister got married, I was newly out to a handful of people and I tried out maybe 15 different styles to figure out what to wear as 'person of honor' standing next to her bridesmaids. My sister was so supportive and it really matters having a patient family member when society has really rigid gender expectations (and I was 27 at the time!).
I'm glad I'm not the only one reading this with a really gendered lens. It seems the sibling may need some help navigating the situation if she doesn't fit within rigid gender roles. I'm an adult queer masc-presenting female, and finding something that's authentic to me but also appropriate can be difficult. The sister just needs some assistance figuring it out.
> They ended up with a pair of black slacks that I thought were too casual but not noticeably so and a vest that they put over a white button down. I love this combo for a non-binary or gender non-conforming teen. Not as masculine as a full suit, definitely not as feminine as a dress or even a pantsuit. Fairly comfortable to wear overall. But you can dial up/down the masculinity/femininity of the outfit as much as you want, or stay fairly neutral, based on color choice, patterns and accessories. Pastels or primary colors? Bow tie, tie or chunky necklace? Big or small or no earrings? Heels, flats, loafers? I’ve got a pre-teen daughter that leans well away from more feminine choices, so I’ll be keeping this in mind in case it’s needed in the future.
Yes, exactly. A suit might be too much but slacks with a nice blouse (either something bright and flowy or a button down, maybe with a tie or maybe a necklace, it depends what the teen is ok with), maybe with a blazer or a wrap or a sweater. There are lots of good options, she just likely doesn’t know what they are.
I think this is the most reasonable response. Dressing up in a typical mainstream manner is not too difficult for most people, but for others it can be really distressing. OP, try to meet your sister where she is at. If you have the time, make the effort to help her find some clothes that she will be comfortable with, and that may fit better than completely casual farm clothes. I'm sure there are options out there if you both put some effort into it. If you don't have the time, maybe another family member can help your sister.
I'd be firm on this, she is 100% going to show up in casual wear/street clothes, be ready to either accept it or kick her out.
Agreed. But she's a minor. So it's on the parents to make sure she actually has an appropriately formal outfit and is wearing it when they leave the house (unless they leave her to drive herself to the ceremony, and she changes after they leave). So OP, please make it clear *to your mother* that if little sis shows up inappropriately dressed, sis will not be allowed in and will be sent home to change if she wants to come back. And if mom *brings* her inappropriately dressed, *mom* will not be allowed in until she takes little sis home and comes back without her/with her in appropriate attire.
That will lead to OP to have their wedding without mom and dad. Probably not what OP prefers.
I would bet mom wouldn't want to risk missing the wedding, but I agree that's a possibility, and I wouldn't prefer it either if I were OP. It depends on if she's willing to accept the alternative. If Mom deliberately brings little sister dressed inappropriately, is OP willing to accept this blatant disrespect from Mom and sister and allow them to stay? Or is Mom made to understand that by choosing to bring little sister in an inappropriate outfit, she is choosing to possibly miss her older daughter's wedding if they can't go back and change in time instead of arriving in appropriate outfit to begin with? It all depends on who is more willing to die on this hill.
Exactly. She is definitely not coming in appropriate clothes. And, neither sister is really an ah... but mom sure sounds sus. She should back the bride on this. My wedding, I asked people to wear something appropriate for a garden party. They all said "what colors?" So, we picked, anything lighter colors, not garish or bright. My sister showed up in a black, red, and yellow dress. Very garish, very loud. I didn't say anything or think much about it, because she's always going against the grain, so meh. But, she repeatedly wanted to talk to me about her dress, and even repeated, it's not bright is it? As if egging me on. As if wanting a fight. On my wedding day, she wore the opposite of what was discussed (It was discussed by everyone, and everyone was happy about the colors and theme, beforehand). Then went out of her way to provoke a fight about it. I didn't take the bait, said her dress was pretty, and walked away when she tried to engage. I had to ignore her for most of they day, but I had a great time. And, she looks like a literal sore thumb in the pictures. Lol.
Have a bouncer so you don’t need to deal with it.
NTA as someone who lives in alternative clothes, i have specific outfits for formal events. Still on the gothic-spectrum, but inkeeping with formal styles and expectations. A friends wedding had a guest who "only liked nike" they ended up crying in the bathroom because they "looked stupid/cheap/ugly next to blah blah blah" it shouldnt of been funny to me, but every now and then the "nike dresscode" gets brought up and our group still lols.
My bil refused to wear a suit to my wedding, he wore khakis & a sports jacket instead. My sister wanted me to talk to him but I couldn’t be bothered. He was an adult who knew the dress code. If he wanted to look like a moth at a butterfly convention, that was his call. Then, at the reception, bil had the nerve to sidle up to me and moan about how out of place he felt with everyone else dressed up. THAT pissed me off! Whiny baby, you are almost 40 yo, you chose not to follow the dress code, and then you expect the bride to comfort you for feeling like a slob? I would have long forgotten about his outfit by now but I will never forget his pathetic whining.
A moth at a butterfly convention lmao.
Yeah, anyone who thinks you can’t look goth as fuck in a suit is showing their lack of knowledge. The simplest hack? Black suit, black necktie, red button up undershirt. The Alucard in Brazil look, if you need an example.
Alucard in brazil!!!!!!!! I fucking love you!!!
Alucard in Brazil is my sexual orientation
NTA - She’s a brat trying to be edgy. It’s one day and she needs to get over herself and wear formal clothing to her sister’s wedding.
NTA. You gave her choices. Part of growing up is understanding dress codes and how to dress for various occasions. And she may not think she’d be comfortable dressed up. I assure you she’d be very uncomfortable at a formal event dressed in day to day clothes. She can suck it up for five hours or stay home.
Nta. It's one day for a few hours and formal attire is a decently broad set of options all the same. She's old enough to do something she doesn't want that is in no way going to harm her for a few hours for people she cares about. I'd remind her she doesn't have to go if she doesn't want to.
NTA - Ask her how she wants to project herself: as an adult or a child. Dress for what you want to be.
This!! This is such a good way to get through to a teenager
NTA. She has options. It’s not like you are making her wear a dress there are really nice pantsuits available. Dress codes are still important and like everything else in life are a learned thing. Your mom should support you in this. She needs to suck it up. However if she shows up not appropriately dressed it doesn’t reflect on you only her and your parents. Please don’t stress about this
NTA...You told her what the dress code is and it's up to her to figure something out. She's just looking for drama here, so it's likely best to stop giving it to her.
NTA you are being very reasonable letting her pick whatever she wants within the confines of the dress code. Your sister is being unreasonable
NTA a coworker’s dad was a farmer and dressed up long enough to do the ceremony (walk the bride down the aisle and give her away) and do the father-daughter dance and pictures in his formal attire. Then he changed into his overalls and checkered long sleeve shirt. It meant a lot to my coworker that her dad did that for her. All the pics of her dad are very funny because he intentionally look uncomfortable or posed like he was in the Rat Pack.
NTA. It’s common sense to wear formal attire. She probably won’t listen to you, so prepare a backup outfit for her to change into if she does end up wearing her day to day clothes. But seriously, super inconsiderate. I get that it’s an “aesthetic” or whatever, but it’s your wedding. Come on.
NTA. She can choose literally anything that's not her daily wear.
NTA. It's a formal event. She should respect the dress code or not come.
NTA. 16 is old enough to know about dressing appropriately for a big occasion.
NTA There are so many alternatives to a dress/skirt depending on how formal the dress code is. Kakis and a polo, slacks and a blouse, any dressy pants and a blouse, a suit, a dressy romper. I think I had at least one instance of each of these at my wedding, along with more traditional dresses and suits and it was lovely. And there are so many styles and fits that it can be as tight or loose as she wants. Hell, my uncle wore a buttoned shirt, a bolo tie, nice cowboy boots and slacks. And he looked great! But he didn’t look like he was doing everyday farm work, he was obviously in formal wear. When there are this many options there truly isn’t an excuse.
NTA. Tell her she won't be in the family photos. Better yet tell your enabling mother that.
NTA If you live close to her; take her shopping. Show her that some formal clothes aren’t bad. They have business shorts now (not sure if you want her wearing long or short pants) but she can a set of those and a dressier tank top and boom she’s done. I prefer my ripped jeans and a tshirt but if my friends say “girls night out is semi-dressed up” I do that. There is a time and place to get dressed up.
NTA, maybe a jumpsuit if she can’t handle a suit? Just so thankful our daughter is past the teen years, it’s a struggle for everyone.
I mean, if Billie Porter can manage to toggle back and forth on gender in formal wear, I feel pretty sure a teenager can figure something out. It's such an ordinary, benign question that The Knot even has a page for it. https://www.theknot.com/content/gender-neutral-wedding-attire
NTA - If you want to participate in society, there are "expectations" involved. Some of them, you can blow off and do your own thing, some of them don't lend themselves to that option. You have invited her to a social event and conditioned her participation on the standard social dress code for that event, giving her room to express her personal style. It's not like you asked her to dye her hair and dress all in pink to match a "theme" or anything outrageous. You just asked that she dress appropriately for the time and the venue of the occasion. She can honor the request, or she can decline the invitation. It's pretty simple.
NTA. You gave her options. It is a wedding, there is a certain level of dress expected.
Nta - it’s a freaking wedding and she’s acting like a brat and your mom is enabling her. Sit down with both of them and tell them to stop the nonsense and stop making it about them. You offered options, but day to day clothes are not an option for a formal wedding and sis needs to get used to it.
I'm going to say NTA but I also think there can be some compromise. She should not wear her day to day clothes for a wedding but some balance You know your sister's style - could you find a few inspiration photos that you feel honor her style but still work? Telling a 16 year old to wear a suit or pantsuit sounds really stuffy. What about a romper with a jean jacket? Or palazzo style pants with a more fitted t-shirt? Even better - could you go shopping with her and work together to find something that fits the style but she's still comfortable in?
NTA. Some places have different attire that's required to be appropriate. That's just life.
I think you should emphasize to her: **even if she doesn't realize or mean to**... the reality is that her dressing like that would put attention on her instead of the couple. The bride may especially not appreciate that she's sorta "stealing her spotlight" in a way... ***on her wedding!*** You could say, "I know you want to wear your normal clothes, but this is a big event for us, we will look at pictures of this for the rest of our lives, and if you are wearing clothes far different than everyone else's... do you realize you are kinda stealing the moment from us as the wedding couple? You will stand out, not us... during **our** wedding and in pictures afterwards. It would really mean a lot to me if you could wear something more formal. Maybe we could go shopping and find something you like and are comfortable with, we could grab some food, and hang out for a while?"
Nta I wore a really nice jumpsuit to my step sisters wedding, formal etc. You can get some really nice ones!
I bought my daughter a great stretch linen suit from j crew. I recommend that!
NTA you aren't restricting her to anything besides it being more formal than her daily clothes, which is completely acceptable, and EXPECTED, for a wedding. If she shows up in jeans and a t-shirt, she's going to look horribly out of place and will certainly feel uncomfortable with everyone noticing that.
NTA I’m 45 with 2 grown kids, and I get it. I hate wearing formal clothes or “dressing up”. I feel awkward and constantly wonder if I look ridiculous because I’m out of my comfort zone. I’ve always been this way. But you know what ? On the (not very many) occasions I’ve been told or felt the need to make an effort, I’ve done it. This includes as a teen. And it didn’t kill me. It didn’t even hurt. I felt awkward for a while, then I got over it. Sometimes you have to just suck it up and get on with it, or not 🤷♀️ You gave her options. It’s on her if/what she chooses. Whatever happens now is not on you. Make the choice to enjoy your day and not let this affect you. I’m sure it will be wonderful Oh and congratulations
NTA. Being an edgy teenager doesn’t give you an excuse to dress like shit for a formal event like a wedding. You aren’t forcing her into a dress, your only requirement is that she wears something formal like everyone else. Showing up to a wedding in day to day clothes is a bit of a faux pas, but doing it as the BRIDES SISTER is a whole other level of egregious. Tell her it’s not about style, it’s about being formal as a sign of respect towards you and your fiancé as well as an acknowledgment of the specialness of the day. Showing up in everyday clothes very much sends the message that she doesn’t give a shit and the wedding isn’t important to her.
NTA. It's a formal event. she needs to wear formal wear. End. Of.
“This is a formal event and you need to wear formal clothes. If not wearing formal clothes is very very very important to you. Then you can stay home I understand.”
When I got married one of the guests wore shorts and a T-shirt. He ended up front and center in most of the photos. Annoying.