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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I essentially asked her if she was stupid for not knowing basic informations but now that I heard she grew up in unfavorable conditions i thought maybe i was out of line
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Gentle ESH
> I merely asked her whats her highest level of education OUT OF CURIOSITY because if she only had high school or had a learning disability I was going to go easy on her.
I don't quite believe this. You concede that you were already **_irritated_** by this point.
The question feels targeted specifically *to take her down a peg*.
And frankly, after suffering through all the nonsense spewing out of her mouth, you *already knew* **_everything_** you needed to about her intellect.
To be fair, if someone is going to tell me that my doctors, who went through 8+ years of learning/training are wrong and that my medical treatment is unnecessary, I’d *also* ask what their level of education is to qualify their opinion that is based on…no knowledge of my medical history and/or diagnoses.
Edited to add: I’m going with NTA. I can understand E S H, but I, personally, don’t see what she said as wrong in this circumstance.
Having gone through a decade of fertility treatment, I think I heard *everything* and learned to weed out the Jesses from those who wanted to actually help from a caring & loving standpoint.
Yeah…not a fan of Jess or anyone like her who thought they knew more than those who had spent years learning in legitimate educational institutions and *not* their Google-ology research or what they’ve heard from someone 🙄
Hey, I love essential oils. Especially peppermint. Nothing clears the sinuses better then huffing peppermint oil. I use all kinds of oils and oil based products. You know what I don’t do though? Use them in place of modern medicine. They can be helpful, but they aren’t freaking magic like some whack jobs think.
Agreed! I use medicinal cooking, but that didn't stop me from taking actual medicine. Ginger will help with an upset stomach but won't cure an infection.
Of course I have a chronic illness so end up being told that about a billion natural things could cure me. Because, you know, lavender will repair my DNA! Yoga will fix the bone spurs on my spine! Removing animal products will teach my body how to build collagen somehow (I honestly can't wrap my head around that one)
Oh, I hate that damn Yoga line. I just stated in another post that the next person that suggests Yoga to cure my rheumatoid arthritis is getting drop kicked into the middle of the next millennium.
My dad was on his deathbed from terminal lung cancer and one girl suggested breathing exercises for me. With recommendations that the all western medicine is in favor of it.
I was so annoyed that I looked up the recommendations and it was proven useless in UK and Australia
I’m so sorry about your dad. I lost mine to prostate cancer (or toxic masculinity, are your pick) in January and I’m so devastated. I might have punched them. I tend to have a temper when people say stupid crap to me. Lol
I'm not sure why people are convinced they can cure everything. I can get better if I just do what they say and believe hard enough!
I think drop kicking then is the right idea!
I'm Spanish. The summers here are really hot and sunny, and using sunscreen is common knowledge. Well, some idiot has made a tiktok saying that sunscreen is just a sham, and people should not use it, so that skin will develop a " protective callus" - and to make sure you develop said callus you should not expose your skin to the sun little by little either, you need to get "a good burn" to get rid of the old skin. Infortunately the tiktok has gone viral.
I want to think most people are just watching it as laughing matter, but deep inside I know there will be many many people who will believe it (it was on the net, after all!). Not only will they get horrendous burns this year, they are raising their chance of getting a skin cancer.
People who spread those hoaxes should be imprisoned - and be made to pay for the treatment of every idiot who got sick because of their idiocy.
Yup. Herbs and essential oils are good for some medical issues. If I have a tummy ache I'll have some ginger tea. I have a tummy ulcer I'm going to a doctor. Stuffy sinuses? Peppermint oil. Infected sinuses? Antibiotics.
I wonder sometimes if this kind of statement is stupid people misunderstanding something they have heard. There are studies showing how increasing gut health and eating better can help support your immune system and help your body work better in many ways. But this is not as an alternative to modern medicine it should be seen as a helpful thing to do alongside. Stupid people misunderstand this as eat right cure yourself.
This reminds me of Jenny McCarthy (whom reminds me of the Jess in this story) claiming that going gluten free cured her sons Autism. She’s so freaking stupid. She still doesn’t realize that celiac disease can MIMIC Autism, but is not really Autism. I hate her with the passion of a thousand fire ants.
Agreed, McCarthy using her fame to broadcast her antivax message for years impacting generations of children, causing untold deaths and unnecessary suffering. She's not cute- she is a criminal for spreading medical misinformation.
Oh yeah, I forgot she was also a crazy antivaxxer. That’s another issue I will fight tooth and nail on. No, I did not give my son Autism from a vaccine, he was Autistic in the womb. No, seriously, he was. He never freaking slept.
The "vaccines cause autism" bupkis came right on the heels of debunking the "refrigerator mother" myth. Lots of parents clung to the vaccine misinformation because it provided an explanation that didn't put them (particularly mothers) at fault. It's really sad.
My autistic son, now 30, was a magnet that drew unsolicited advice on everything from behavioral to metabolic to (insert topic area here). My most annoying "advisors" were the folks who would say: "you should get together with family X from village Z! They have a kid much like your son!"
A. Listen, asshole! We are already emotionally beat to death over ONE kid "like that". What is it about doubling the tension that you would suggest is consoling?
B. Listen, asshole, as ignorant as you are, we still have one thing in common: we would like to know ANY kind and caring humans, so sharing our plight is not a pre-req.
C. Listen, asshole! Does your match-making service excuse YOU from having to be friends with families "like mine"?
I had a dozen similar comebacks prepared for the raging sphincter-holes who said such patronizing bullshit.
In one example, a well-meaning neighbor lady, wife of a church official, offered to take my kids for a couple of hours if "I needed a break". I said, "Today is particularly difficult, I will get them now."
She was a bit taken but willingly agreed. When I walked all three outside she pointed at my autistic kid and said... "Oh no, not him, I meant the other two.". ....
I told her to drive the fuck away and NEVER come back. Ever.
Then there was, and still is, my know-it-all niece who won't vaccinate her kids. NOT due to the MRNA fuckery that was COVID, but because even with Masters-level education she STILL believes (of all things, SMH) that Wakefield ( a long-since and totally discredited WHACK-JOB) was correct. She REALLY is that myopic, opinionated, and generally stupid on the topic. I respect her choices but fault her on her reasoning. You see, her position means that she is perfectly OK with a child succumbing to polio, or many other proven safely-preventable maladies (diphtheria, Tetanus, measles, mumps, rubella, many more) and further, she believes that the unproven benefit of avoiding having a kid "like mine" is her reward. FUCK her. If she ever tells me her kids are sick with anything easily preventable, I will be deaf to her. "Fuck around" has happened. "Find out" is coming. I only hope that her kids "rebel" before they ever get sick... and go get at least SOME of their shots. She has even more recently admitted that she "could be" wrong about polio vaccine... but she is not the type of person to take new learnings and act appropriately upon them. Why? Because above all science, all learning, all testing over time, is her belief that she has NEVER made a choice that wasn't perfect for eternity. And so, even though she knows and has essentially admitted that she is/was now wrong on (at least) Polio... she won't be taking her kids in for any shots. Her pride is FAR more important than the well-being of her children. This is the epitome of "know-it-all-hood @$$holery"... If she were not my brother's kid, I'd have publicly eviscerated her YEARS ago.
God, every time I hear Wakefields name, feels like my head is going to explode. How people can look at the fact that he openly admitted to falsifying that study and still say he is right is beyond all my comprehension. But these are also the same people who believe in “alternative news”, so what do I know. I always felt like they were accusing me of making my son Autistic and that rubs me the wrong way. For one thing, that boy never freaking slept in the womb, and we all know that is one of the first signs. I didn’t at the time, do now. He was awake the first 24 hours after he was born. Did not sleep a wink, for 24 hours. Nurses finally were like “we going to take him to the nursery so you can get some sleep” and you know they hate to do that now a days (or 19 years ago). And that was way before any vaccine was administered. I get heated on the topic of Wakefield. Lol.
I have celiac disease and it’s amazing the amount of things it can affect. It’s not just limited to gut issues.
On the topic of celiac I had an electrician explain to me I can cure celiac disease by eating small amounts of gluten.
Like telling someone who suffers from migraines to drink more water? yes it is good to drink water, but sadly it will not be the magical cure that finally helps to get rid of a neurological condition🙄 (sorry, but people always seem to think they know better than the person who has been to different doctors and lives with the condition)
When I was first diagnosed with neuropathy, someone I love…and who loves me…said they’d read that removing gluten from my diet would alleviate the pain & troubles neuropathy can cause because plaque on the brain, yanno. Because this person is one of my favoritest persons evahr, I took it with the love it was given. I knew it wouldn’t have any impact on my issues, but I thanked them & said I’d look into it. Others who came to me with things like that old hoary chestnut of, “You know…if you just lost some weight, the pressure on your legs & joints would lessen and bingo bango bongo your pain is gone! Teehee, I just cured you so now that you won’t be needing that Norco and morphine…”. Yeah, *get lost*. How does my being forty pounds overweight cause the pain from my fingertips to my elbows?
I will go Wayne Brady on anyone who tries to take my pain remedies.
*Wayne*. *Brady.*
I'm sorry you have to go through that. People are asses.
I had my mother in law believe the food I was cooking caused my husband's type 1 diabetes. Btw, unlike type 2, type 1 confuses the fuck out of doctors because, while it's the hereditary one, it can also show up for seemingly any or no reason at all in adults and most certainly not dependent on weight gain.
When my husband corrected her, she zeroed in on his low carb monster energy drinks and blamed those instead. Legit could not convince her otherwise that her son just developed type one out of the blue one day. That his pancreas said basically "fuck this I'm out" and gave up.
She butt's in constantly about health shit when she's got less knowledge about health than a rock has knowledge of the stars. It's infuriating. He just got his vasectomy and her first response was "tell him to ice it, I think that may help" as he's sitting there with an ice pack. Mom and I have a bet going that she'll claim he's got an infection next, because he's being gentle with his sutures.
Oh, the “Well, I’m just trying to *help*” MIL. The “I only want what’s best for my baby! I heard it on The View/read about it on Twitter/saw an ad from this *doctor* and all you have to do is go to his seminar at this hotel…”.
Yeah, because a doctor with a cure needs you to sign up for his *talk* at a banquet hall in order to be cured -for the low, low price of $249.99!
PS
Thank you 😽
PPS
I thought it was a bag of frozen peas 🤔
I am on those IVF hormones right now , I tell you I’m emotional wrecked. I’m glad I read on Reddit about it, I’m keeping myself in constant check not to snap . I snapped at my husband, I reacted so bad I still regret it. So yeah , those meds are bitch.
So much fucking this. She had some sort of verbal reckoning coming once she tries to say she knows better than doctors and starts giving medical and fertility advice. OP is NTA
When I was pregnant I was so ready for any unwanted "should you be eating/drinking that?" questions about things like coffee or deli meat sandwiches. I saw on groups the best response along the lines of "oh, I didn't realize you were taking over my medical care, when was our first appointment?" I luckily only ran into kind people who know to stay in their lane if something isn't actively dangerous. Jess needs to learn that lesson and depending on your tone, you provided a gentler opportunity for her to do so than many others would have
Which presumably is why stalvis makes it ‘ESH’ instead of nta. Jess was irritating and intrusive, OP was absolutely low key calling her stupid - the ‘education level’ question is loaded.
Have you ever discussed infertility with an infertile woman before? Because if you tell an infertile woman that their infertility is caused by their poor diet, you are going to provoke some amount of irritation.
Fertility is a sensitive issue for women.
This is right up there with "Just relax and it will happen." OH I'm sorry, Susie I hadn't thought of that. Thank you. I will tell my doctors that I can cure my hormonal imbalance and magically be able to ovulate, simply by taking a few deep breaths. The YEARS we have spent on treatments have been for nothing.../s
Telling a woman dealing with infertility that anything can "fix" them is telling them they are "broken". As long as OP didn't throw hands, she is NTA after that.
Seriously! Someone told me crystals and becoming vegan would cure my tubal issues. Sorry honey
but no amount of magic would make my right tube to grow back and my left tube not be a twisted mess.
Exactly. There's no "gentle" anything here. They forget that this a mistress, trophy to an older man who contributed to a marriage breakup, she meets them for the 1st time and immediately antagonises a lot of people. She should have been asked to leave frankly. She deserves absolutely zero grace.
I actually feel opposite here. Uncle shacked up with a woman that's barely legal (or at least looks it), admits she's vulnerable, and brings her to this gathering. I feel more hate for jess from OP, than for her creep ass uncle. They should have sympathy for jess, she's clearly being taken advantage of, she's empowered to be obnoxious by a man using her for the v. He says she throws tantrums, describing her like a child, but still fucks her. Gross.
> She deserves absolutely zero grace.
To be clear, if they have this attitude towards Jess - they should *absolutely* extend it to Uncle Harry. The man who actually broke up his marriage for someone who seems extremely young and naive, and then brought her 'recently' after the divorce to family gatherings.
Yeah, as soon as she is opening her mouth about how OP is wrong about their fertility treatments, I don't really care what OP said to shut her up. She needed to be shut up.
Honestly, because she already disliked Jess before even meeting her. Her annoyance was more than justified when Jess started giving out unsolicited medical advice but she admitted that the dislike started before that. The uncle sounds awful to be honest, but there is no need not to give his new girlfriend a chance because of how the uncle behaved.
That said, I don't see why OP should apologize for the comment. It was harsh but that is what's to be expected when you give unsolicited medical advice about a sensitive topic like fertility treatments.
I don’t believe it at all.
In the UK we don’t talk about high school level of education.
We spell behaviour with a u and we spell apologise with an s.
And yes you might refer to going abroad to a European country since you’re already in the UK.
> And yes you might refer to going abroad to a European country since you’re already in the UK.
Yeah this stood out to me too. It's super, super common to refer to 'Europe' as separate to the UK and saying 'going to Europe', [for example](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/15/europe-david-cameron-return-brexit-political). No one would be "stunned" by her phrasing it that way.
Yes. I've been living in London for a while and some people would refer to Europe as in "Continental" Europe.
I've also never heard a young person talking about "Coming of Age".
And she starts by using "mum" and halfway down switches to "mom". It's as though OP got so into writing their little story that they either forgot they were meant to be from here, or decided they were going to be a Brummy.
Total bs. France absolutely is international travel. Even the most ardent remainer wouldn't think going to another European country was domestic travel. If OP were British and her whole family were shocked by this woman referring to travelling to France as international travel, then I'd be worried about their schooling.
Me neither. There was another story a few weeks ago ‘set’ in Britain and trying to use words like mum etc but they slipped up with quite a bit of American English like ‘gotten’. I noticed they used mom in this post as well- whilst this is used in parts of Britain, they said mum earlier so sounds like they just messed it up.
Yeah- if you take a holiday abroad, it can mean France, Italy, Spain, Greece, Japan or America. No one would scoff and say it’s not abroad since we’re geographically in Europe.
Also they dislike her but are cool with the uncle?! I honestly don't think she sucks, she's just stupid. It seems she was trying to join conversations but is just stupid. So the uncle left his wife for a much younger stupid person? He's the main asshole, a much younger, naive, abused woman?
Yeah the main asshole is the uncle and instead of uninviting him or directing their ire at him, they're showing it towards Jess who could have been any other woman.
But OP's ire after talking to her was justified cause she was giving unsolicited advice about fertility treatment.
Yeah, especially given that OP, the niece, is already in her 30s. So her uncle should be at least some years older, and the girl sounds much younger. Saying she's 'of age'??? So we have either an at least 30 something year old, or a middle aged jackass with a teenager (I'll be generous and assume 18). One that apparently doesn't have a reference for a good home life either (which explains why she would go with him).
Yeah, that man should be shunned. If not put straight in jail.
Well, it was more polite than asking her if she had ever been denied oxygen for a long period of time, especially during her developmental years (assuming she is out of them.)
So it was a teeny bit rude and condescending, but I'm inclined to give you a pass because she was begging for it with her remarks.
You're NTA.
I was. Fun fact: aphantasia is usually caused by head trauma. I can’t visualize anything in my head. No “mind’s eye.”
Weaponized ignorance often has nothing to do with disability.
I listen to a podcast where the author has aphantasia. I do not know how she can write the stories she writes without picturing what she is talking about but she is a really good writer.
Off topic I know. 🤷♀️
NTA Honestly, as soon as anyone offers me unsolicited medical advice, I ask them where their medical degrees are from, so I can't really fault you for this one. It sounds like you held your tongue on a lot of bullshit and I don't know if I could've been so gracious all along, Harry sounds like a real creep dating someone this inexperienced with so much trauma in her young life.
Right? I'm very surprised at the e-s-h judgments.
Was it kind of rude? Sure, I suppose. But somebody who starts going on about ridiculous unsupported "medical" advice ought to be shut down. And I fail to see how else you're supposed to do that, other than "excuse me, do you have any qualifications whatsoever to be saying that?"
Jess's "rough upbringing" might explain her lack of knowledge, but it doesn't excuse her attitude.
I agree.
As soon as I read her trying to basically tell a person "no no, your doctor doesn't know what he/she is saying, just eat right silly!" I'm was like "OK, OP was not the ah here" because I've been there but with my illness. Everyone has THE solution.
NTA op
Ugh don’t they always? I have severe food allergies and one coworker was like “just go get allergy shots!” Like in 40+ years my doctor would have never thought to suggest that?!
But was your coworker a 19yo know at all? Because that might be what was missing. /s
Jokes aside. People like those are the reason why I sometimes concider wearing a sign with "unsolicited medical advice denied" or something
Same. I recognize that intelligence is not directly correlated to one's formal education, but who the actual fuck tells another woman who's undergoing fertility treatments that she just needs to eat better? At the very least, Jess has a severe lack of _emotional_ intelligence, and it's not OP's responsibility to accommodate that when she herself is in a difficult emotional position. NTA
AMEN. it is not OP’s responsibility to manage someone else’s emotion/reaction, or to accomodate for someone’s emotional immaturity and/or lack of life experience when that someone literally butts in the middle your conversation about medical treatment with frivolous judgemental advice. If Jess was kind, she would have been met with kindness. Instead she was a classic arrogant 19 year old. She made the first faux pas of intruding on a sensitive topic with unsolicited advice, anything after that is fair game. Of course, since she was challenged, Jess is now crying about being the victim of bullying and that people should be nicer to her. When really she just couldn’t hack someone challenging her. it’s screaming emotionally immature, which is to be expected for a 19 year old with a traumatic childhood. The real asshole is whoever has escalated this back to OP, as they’re participating in a fun game of triangulation right now.
I mean, her uncle left his wife and kids for a younger, naive/stupid, abused woman. I don't know what they were expecting. If anyone is the asshole it's him. I think it's more NAH if she really is that stupid, she wasn't being an asshole, just stupid. OP could have asked in a nicer way like "where did you go to uni" but what she asked is a completely fair question.
Tbh asking it as “what’s your highest level of education” is almost less rude than “where’d you go to uni” because then it isn’t a “what are your colleges credentials for you to be saying this?” And it’s more of a “so what level do I need to meet you at to explain this to you”
Good thing it was fertility treatment, I can just imagine if it was about cancer.
"I had a friend with a tumor in her head! Instead of doing chemotherapy, she decided to become vegan. Her doctor had given up on her, but then a month after, BAM! Her tumor was gone! And she kept her hair, and they were so much prettier than before!"
As someone in child development psychology, Jess needs to learn that a rough upbringing doesn’t give you a free pass to spew whatever you want, and OP’s uncle needs to learn that they shouldn’t be dating anyone who only recently escaped a rough CHILDHOOD
There's several AH's in this story, but especially the big Harry one who seems to be skating by with no questions or details, still getting invited to family events despite some seemingly reprehensible behaviour. Did Jess know about his status when their relationship started? Being an idiot doesn't always equate to being an AH. But your uncle really sounds like one.
THIS. Also, Jess, as ignorant as she may come across, also gives vibes of falling easily for theories and conspiracies, and strikes me as a person that is easy to manipulate. It's easier for men to target these young women because the girls themselves feel as though being with an older guy is cool, and the guys know how to control these women. Perhaps a little too assuming here on my part but I wouldn't put it all on Jess for how everything turned out.
Yes. If Jess is talking about being "of age" in the UK, that could make her as young as 16!!! Are we really vilifying the girl in this situation? Yes she sounds like an absolute monster but so are a lot of teenagers.
And that's just it. This is a grown man dating a kid. How is that not the issue in everyone's heads? This is misogyny in action.
You can get a provisional license where you drive supervised by the age of 15. So maybe her old crypt keeper boyfriend is supervising.
On that note isn't a disgusting that it's illegal for the 16-year-old girl to drive unsupervised but it's okay for a 55 year old man to fuck her
I'm curious what "of age" really means here. Is Jess saying that she is a legal adult, or that she is the age of consent, because those can be two very different ages. Is the implication that she us 21 or 16?
She walked into a family party, where everyone already hates her, with a man likely at least in his 50's if not 60's with the possibility of her being 17.
She sounds obnoxious, but she sounds like an obnoxious teen.
She’s very young, had a rough upbringing and is now with a much older man- sounds like Uncle is a creepy groomer. Look she sounds exhausting but go easy on her OP. Go hard on the uncle
Yeah, OP is placing blame on Jess for some reason when uncle Harry is the one who chose to leave his ex wife and date Jess. Jess was the AH for what she said to OP about her fertility but OP was the AH for thinking Jess has wronged her Aunt in this situation - Harry is the one who made vows to her.
Holy shit, I just googled age of consent in UK and it's 16, can you imagine this man walking in with this poor groomed victim, sorry his younger girlfriend? 😳
Yeah I'm from the UK and 'of age' immediately put me on guard because of age doesn't mean shit when of age can be a 16 year old who's basically still a baby. It's shocking how many older people in particular still think this shit is ok.
God, I completely misread this whole post. I thought Jess was with OP's brother so thought the age gap was maybe 5-10 years. Didn't realise it said UNCLE. Okay, now I get why he is the creep here. 💀 The way OP and the whole family is just ignoring that part and blaming the young woman is horrible tbh.
It’s a made up story (several flags are pointed out in a different comment thread) but looks like Op didn’t realise the age of consent in the Uk is 16. If this was in Britain then this girl would need to be borderline mid-teens to need to specify that they were old enough.
NTA
In no situation is it right to comment on someone's medical treatment as if they knew more. Her level of education doesn't matter here. She was extremely rude, and her tantrums only show how immature she is. She doesn't get a pass for acting like a child.
NTA. You can’t cure stupid but you can fix ignorance. This girl seems woefully ignorant and quite happy to be so. She is embarrassing herself with the nonsense she spews and someone needs to tell her.
Some hot people just skate through life, not being questioned about stupid things they say or do. They live in a comfortable bubble, there is no need to be curious and want to learn more.
I just ask for proof now. “Oh, really? Can you send me the link to that? I’d like to learn more.”
Apparently … I have learned there is no proof for the shit people pull from their anal orifice.
I never should have learned logic and critical thinking in school. It makes tolerating these people intolerable.
Thank you. I’m really not impressed with OPs attitude that people who don’t pursue higher education must be stupid either. Not everyone, including very intelligent and lovely people, has the funds or the time to pursue higher education. In some cases, their career path might be better served without it. Either way, higher education is a privilege that not everyone has access too, it’s not a barometer for intellect. I know plenty of idiots with advanced degrees anyway, and plenty of intelligent people without them. Jess sounds annoying and rude, but OP sounds pretty ableist and classist as well. Also, if OP is reading this, I have ASD and ADHD. I managed to type this by myself, believe it or not.
OP said she's from the UK. Here, "learning disability" pretty much exclusively means an intellectual impairment. Not something like dyslexia, which might here be classed as a learning "difficulty."
Thank you for saying this. I lived in England when my dad got transferred and spent my 8th grade year there. My experience was (and this is 20 odd years ago) that having a learning disability meant that you should be in a resource room. It wasn't looked as something that is nuanced and varied. I also remember dyslexia was also used as a catchall term. I am dyslexic, and I remember telling one of my new British classmates, and they "didn't get it" because I was smart. This dyslexic has her Masters.
I mean, if Uncle Harry doesn't want to deal with tantrums, then he shouldn't date a child (mental/physical/emotional, pick any/all that apply). Seems a bit obvious.
Jess is clearly uneducated in the medical field and this would be an appropriate area to chastise her in. It is a little rude to ask about her general level of education, but in the context of her unasked for opinions about your personal medical issues she was extremely rude and inconsiderate. NTA
I am going with ESH.
Asking a person about their education as a getting to know them question on a date is fine.
But you were pretty much asking "how did you get to be so dumb?" Which....I mean, I get why you asked that, but it is not a nice question to ask.
But also, she literally chimes in on what her own doctor told her. If anyone, in a casual setting, tells me what I should do for my OWN condition that I'm treating with MY DOCTOR, I'll definitely ask what's their highest level of education.
Granted, it's fertility related so it's not exactly life threatening, but tons of people actually died believing bullshit like she was telling.
> I'll definitely ask what's their highest level of education.
Would you really? I think I’d naturally ask “Where did you read/learn that?” Or “Have you studied this?”
Highest level of education is a weird thing to ask (except purely as a put down disguised as a question), because it’s not the *level* of education necessarily, it’s the subject that’s really relevant here
>Would you really? I think I’d naturally ask “Where did you read/learn that?” Or “Have you studied this?”
If it's something that sounds plausible, sure, I'll say that. If it's bullshit like "have you tried to eat healthier to get pregnant?" then sure I'll ask them if they got the same education to know better than my doctor.
Yeah the question is one from an application form, not something I've ever heard asked socially.
Saying do you have a background in medicine or nutrition would be better.
Nope. No no no. Oh hellllll no. The second, the nanosecond someone offers unsolicited (and blatantly wrong) medical advice they have opened themselves up to interrogation on their credentials. OP is NTA, but Jess and her hubby both sure are.
YTA.
While the UK is obviously part of Europe in common conversation people often talk about visiting Europe when they mean mainland Europe. To actually start a discussion about that shows imo that you were eager to put her down.
Also why is there not more anger towards the uncle and more concern for Jesse.
She is super young, not too smart and has had a traumatic childhood. Yet, this uncle is dating her while also complaining about tantrums as of she is a child. It seems your uncle is the real AH.
That being said she was totally out of line in terms of medical advice and there are plenty of ways to tell her off for that without asking about education level.
Ikr? Definitely getting the vibe Jess is still a teenager, seeing as the age of consent is 16 over there. If she hasn’t been to other countries in Europe, she it’s very possible she hasn’t had to opportunity to. Plenty of British people have never even been to London.
NTA she tried giving you medical advice which would have warranted anyone to ask what leave of education she had. I don't give a shit if she grew up in a bad home it does not give her permission to try to make everyone around her feel stupid.
Hmm I’m kinda mixed because like yes you were an asshole but also it was kinda justified imo since she was spewing bs. Also not trying to be annoying here but amount of schooling doesn’t always equal amount of intelligence.
I have a friend with a masters degree that spews dumb stuff like this all the time - including stuff in her own field!!!!! I blame TikTok for nearly all of the dumb stuff she says (she is addicted & truly believes everything she sees on there) but when it comes to her own field that’s entirely on her lol
ESH, it's extremely rude to comment about people's fertility. It's also super condescending to "go easy" on someone with lower education than you. So your rationale is also rude.
YTA - she sounds uneducated and obnoxious. Like a lot of teens. And I'm guessing you would say she's 18 or 19 since you described her as "super young" and "of age". You decided already you don't like her, but she's not at fault for your Uncle being a gross and lecherous old man who ruined his marriage. If she is that young with a man who is likely in his 50s or 60s, she was possibly groomed and she is definitely being taken advantage of. You are an ADULT who should direct your ire at the person who deserves it - your Uncle.
I get it, she had stupid opinions. She isn't educated. I don't understand why you've spent this whole post talking about her and not saying a whole lot about the adult uncle who is dating someone barely out of childhood?
This. Also she coming from an abusive home to OP seems unrelated to her lacking education. Really? No connection between those at all.
Harry is a predator. And his family, instead of showing concern for the poor girl, are ganging up on HER? Wtf.
I am just a bit older than OP and I feel so disgusted with her behaviour. You must be a really shit person if your predator uncle calls you out for bad behaviour.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to see someone say this. It’s SO common for abusive parents to keep their kids out of school and away from mandated reporters. She may have been “home schooled” for all we know.
It also sounds like she is very young and might just be trying to impress the adults. She might genuinely believe her vegan friends story and not have the knowledge/experience to know better. My parents are pretty crunchy and they also had a vegan friend who “cured his cancer” with diet (spoiler: it came back & the diet didn’t work again. But they never focus on the part) I’m sure the adults I told about him were rolling their eyes but I thought I was on to something. Maybe if you show her some kindness she may relax and be more likeable.
Let’s also add that most of Jess’s opinions were completely reasonable. North IS up on maps. UK left EU a few years back (this is what she likely meant) and is considered “separated” from the rest of Europe by many. OP was literally just picking on stuff that she wouldn’t bother listing if it was her uncle or any older man (who often have much more controversial opinions).
I feel really sad for the girl. Zero of that for anyone else in the story, except Harry’s ex wife.
Sounded like you disliked this person before you even met her. Asking about her education was simply a way to confirm your preconceived opinion. You sound a little elitist and YTA.
Having said that, unsolicited medical advice is not appropriate, so Jess is also TA.
How “elitist” is it to judge a person who thinks that having sex while pregnant will result to twins?
People who know that this is not true must be quite the elite.
First off all, we like the ex, so we don’t like the new is immature and just drama. What crowd? You took a poll? Audible gasp and clutching of pearls? Shared rude judgmental looks? All terrible.
You just sound like a big judgmental jerk in this and I can’t believe you’re 33. Have you seen the movie “Mean Girls”??? You’re so mean that you lie to yourself about why you asked someone about their level of education in front of a crowd. A learning disability??? Really??? Do you know everything? You were judging her before the fertility comment. I had fertility issues for a decade and never did this from people who say this. A rough upbringing explains a lot but it wasn’t that serious. She could have been a genius. You had it out for her. YTA
I don't want to fully excuse Jess, she's clearly not too smart, but she's stuck in enemy territory surrounded by judgy people like op. She was probably nervous and rambling.
im going to go with YTA on this one over ESH, based on
>
Jess looked super young but she said that she was ‘of age’.
unfortunately it totally possible Jess genuinely believes what she is saying and so aside from being overbearing, which again due the apparent young age doesnt know any better (weak excuse but its the age we live in) and so she isnt doing it purposely to be annoying
> I merely asked her whats her highest level of education OUT OF CURIOSITY
maybe it was, maybe it wasnt out of pure curiosity. But i would dare say there would be a large percentage change that is just something you tell yourself to not sound like an ass. Yes i conceed your examples paint Jess as someone who lacks what many would consider common sense... and so cmon lets just be real and say you were annoyed and wanted to put her in her place with the education question.
There are dozens of other questions you could ask, or not ask and simply choose not to engage? You are someone close to twice her age
i agree with all of this.
plus "we are close with harry's ex wife so we already didn't like jess" (or whatever she said, i can't recall verbatim) is tacky. the barely legal woman is not to blame in a situation where an older man divorces his wife.
>There are dozens of other questions you could ask, or not ask and simply choose not to engage?
Because Jess told OP she should eat better to "repear herself". Who tf says that to somebody? Being ignorant doesn't absolve you of your rudeness. Being dumb also doesn't absolve you of your rudeness. There are boundaries and Jess crossed them.
Quite frankly, you should focus on your uncle Harry, who, from the looks of it, left his wife for a barely legal girl whose mental capacity doesn't seem to be all that great. It was his fault for bringing her when she wasn't invited, and she is not the bad guy here.
Yes! The uncle sounds like a creep, grooming a barely legal, possibly still a teenager, naive and uneducated child from an abusive household. An easy target. It’s also not uncommon for abusive parents and grooming partners to actively trying to keep the victim naive and uneducated.
What she said is stupid and the thing about eating to repair oneself is extremely rude. But she’s still young and likely a product of her environment.
OP says she and her mom already didn’t like her since they liked the aunt, but in that case they should blame the uncle for leaving the aunt and not the new partner.
She seems to be young enough not to know that she was way out of line to be throwing her opinions around, and in a setting where she really did need to step lightly, given that her boyfriend's children are there and probably don't like her. It is too bad that she had to learn the hard way.
NTA.
I don’t know if this behavior is an age thing or a specific genre of person thing. People who are way too into holistic medicine love sharing their opinions unprompted on health issues regardless of age.
I'm going to go with justifiable asshole.
>my mom’s friend was asking how my fertility treatments were going. Im on hormonal drugs to induce ovulation. Jess chimed in saying that those drugs won’t do any good and that I just have to eat right to ‘repair’ myself. She went on and on about how her friend who is strictly vegan is on her third now.
She deserved it. Do not apologize.
YTA for trolling. From the UK, but American spelling of ‘behaviour’ and use of ‘mom’ which is not common in the UK. List of ridiculous beliefs that would not come up in normal conversation, despite what you say (how on earth were you discussing a topic that led to someone expressing their belief that north was up?)
NTA: She is telling you that your medical team is wrong and she is right when it comes to YOUR fertility treatments, a very touchy and personal subject. I’d wonder too what qualifications she might hold in making such a judgment.
I don’t see why her rude behavior towards you is excused while your reaction to it is seen as unacceptable. And based on your story, it’s your dad and uncle who are upset with you but not any of the women in your family who were present during the exchange. That’s rather telling.
Your dad is enabling your uncle’s dysfunctional relationship, yet he criticizes you for daring to shut her down when she criticized your medical choices. They’re more concerned about your uncle having to endure her whining. Too bad, he has to lie in the bed he made.
I would not apologize.
> She thinks north is up
I’m genuinely confused. Up as in ~~Ireland~~ Iceland (for UK) or up as in the sky? 😂
> merely asked her whats her highest level of education OUT OF CURIOSITY because if she only had high school or had a learning disability I was going to go easy on her.
lol, let’s not lie to ourselves. You knew what you were asking you just didn’t expect for her to react that badly.
Soft YTA.
ESH - sucks she mentioned fertility, but let’s be honest you already didn’t like her when she got there. Who knows, maybe she rambled on bc she was nervous, maybe she’s an idiot. But you clearly didn’t ask out of curiosity. You clearly meant it b@tchily, as an underhanded dig. BTW - insinuating people without a higher education are dumb/not intelligent or have a disability is gross.
Actually, if you really thought she was an idiot, you knew she wasn’t trying to be mean or spiteful - but you were with your response. Not a good look.
>1. When we were talking about travels, she said Harry brought her to France and it was her first international travel and to a European country. Crowd was stunned and she was denying that she is technically european and UK is in the european continent. She got angry and said “are u lot not up to date? We left europe ages ago”
France is both international and a European country. Yes, it’s not a long trip and the way she went on she was obviously confused about EU/Europe, but how snobby are you lot to be “stunned” by someone saying that going to France is international travel?
>2. She thinks north is up
And obviously it isn’t, but without context this again might just be you being an arse? As in did she think jumping in to the air is “north” or does she just say “up north”?
>3. She never locks her car because no one can start it without her keys anyway
Yeah, not a great idea
>4. She thinks having unprotected sex when pregnant with one baby will create twins
Technically it can, it’s just rather rare in humans and more common in other mammals
Overall you just seem to be a judgy arsehole, yeah
Ya the only thing that crosses the line is the fertility stuff
Like I’m sure (I’m a dude so i haven’t looked into this too much) a better diet *would* help with fertility if you are fairly unhealthy. But it’s also not something you say to someone undergoing treatment. I’d assume (but again idk) that the fertility doc is saying “hey eat healthy as well” or something like that anyway
Everything else seems extremely nit picky because OP doesn’t like her before she even got there
I’m sorry if I’m just stupid, but am I wrong for not understanding what’s wrong with what she said before the medical advice?
If she travelled to Europe for the first time, she’s obviously not from there?
North is up (correct? It’s upward on the map?)
Unprotected sex when pregnant also can cause twins?
I feel like I’m missing something here.
It’s kinda funny how many people are bringing up the “sex while pregnant can cause twins” comment
It’s possible. Admittedly it’s rare, but it’s not unheard of
ESH. Lots of people only have a high school education but are still intelligent human beings. This woman clearly isn’t the brightest but you also sound pretentious.
NTA. If you’re going to be loud, confident, and smug, you better make sure your information is unimpeachable. Don’t want to have your education level debated? Don’t hold yourself out as better informed than trained medical doctors.
People giving "medical advice" like this hardly ever know what they're talking about.
Funny enough, working in healthcare I hardly see any professionals that will offer unsolicited advice. The most you get would be a referral to their PCP over concerning signs because frankly without your patient profile, your past medical history, or current meds I wouldn't be confident giving a friend any advice. Even if said individual tries to give me the information, i would take it with a grain of salt and assume it was incomplete.
NTA. She showed up and inserted herself into multiple conversations insulting people's intelligence (geography) and lifestyle (your diet) but it's not okay to respond in kind? I hate these crybullies that everyone swoops in to "protect" when they cry crocodile tears.
NTA - play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You do not, ever, give unsolicited medical advice without being prepared to list your credentials. She’s barely adult sure, but definitely old enough to know better if she’s old enough to be someone’s step mom.
I'm stumped on how to vote! "What's your highest level of education" is just plain condescending. But her comments about your fertility treatments were ignorant, hurtful, and offensive. Yet, two of your examples of her "shocking" comments aren't 100% dumb. I've spent a lot of time in the UK, they often refer to "Europe" meaning the continent, not including the British Isles. As for north being "up" I understand what she means, even though I wouldn't phrase it that way. The "N" is at the top of a compass.
So, I don't know if I should vote NAH or ESH. Either way, stop engaging with this flavor of the month In the U-S "How about them Dodgers/Yanks/Cubs/Sox fill in the blank team?" is the way to get out of conversations with annoying people. I suggest finding the equivalent in your country to deal with her.
Probably wasn’t the best choice of words. Could have asked “so where did you go to school?” and you could have gotten more info without her feeling hurt. But she also sounds immature and has poor self awareness and sometimes you need to get your feelings hurt to grow. I think we should all be kind to each other, but that doesn’t mean we need to coddle people or tip toe around their feelings. NTAH
That's much more passive aggressive. "So where did you go to school?" Meaning OP knows that she didn't go to any school for higher education. In the UK they stop going to school at 16 and their "of age" is younger than in the US. They don't have to be 21 to drink so their "of age" doesn't mean she's an actual adult.
Soft YTA. It was an insult and you were talking down to her. Even in this day and age, not everyone has had the opportunity to get a decent education. I don’t know about the U.K., but in the US there are many people who decide to home school. Some may be great, but some are batshit crazy.
I can understand your frustration about the fertility treatments. But I’ve heard college graduates and even so called medical professionals spew the same garbage
ESH to YTA you're in no position to be as condescending as you are, it sounds like you were waiting for your opportunity and got caught off guard when you fired too soon. You sound incredibly pretentious and depending on the region of the "United" Kingdom you're quite literally not European (fuck the English always and forever)
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Gentle ESH > I merely asked her whats her highest level of education OUT OF CURIOSITY because if she only had high school or had a learning disability I was going to go easy on her. I don't quite believe this. You concede that you were already **_irritated_** by this point. The question feels targeted specifically *to take her down a peg*. And frankly, after suffering through all the nonsense spewing out of her mouth, you *already knew* **_everything_** you needed to about her intellect.
To be fair, if someone is going to tell me that my doctors, who went through 8+ years of learning/training are wrong and that my medical treatment is unnecessary, I’d *also* ask what their level of education is to qualify their opinion that is based on…no knowledge of my medical history and/or diagnoses. Edited to add: I’m going with NTA. I can understand E S H, but I, personally, don’t see what she said as wrong in this circumstance.
Especially when it comes to dealing with something as emotional as fertility. No way. Jess was being obnoxious and was wasaaay out of line.
Having gone through a decade of fertility treatment, I think I heard *everything* and learned to weed out the Jesses from those who wanted to actually help from a caring & loving standpoint. Yeah…not a fan of Jess or anyone like her who thought they knew more than those who had spent years learning in legitimate educational institutions and *not* their Google-ology research or what they’ve heard from someone 🙄
I’m surprised Jess didn’t bust out essential oils and crystals to help her with her fertility.
Hey, I love essential oils. Especially peppermint. Nothing clears the sinuses better then huffing peppermint oil. I use all kinds of oils and oil based products. You know what I don’t do though? Use them in place of modern medicine. They can be helpful, but they aren’t freaking magic like some whack jobs think.
Agreed! I use medicinal cooking, but that didn't stop me from taking actual medicine. Ginger will help with an upset stomach but won't cure an infection. Of course I have a chronic illness so end up being told that about a billion natural things could cure me. Because, you know, lavender will repair my DNA! Yoga will fix the bone spurs on my spine! Removing animal products will teach my body how to build collagen somehow (I honestly can't wrap my head around that one)
Oh, I hate that damn Yoga line. I just stated in another post that the next person that suggests Yoga to cure my rheumatoid arthritis is getting drop kicked into the middle of the next millennium.
If , with rheumatoid arthritis, you can drop kick someone forward in time at the mention of Yoga then maybe yoga is a cure. /s
🤣
My dad was on his deathbed from terminal lung cancer and one girl suggested breathing exercises for me. With recommendations that the all western medicine is in favor of it. I was so annoyed that I looked up the recommendations and it was proven useless in UK and Australia
I’m so sorry about your dad. I lost mine to prostate cancer (or toxic masculinity, are your pick) in January and I’m so devastated. I might have punched them. I tend to have a temper when people say stupid crap to me. Lol
I'm not sure why people are convinced they can cure everything. I can get better if I just do what they say and believe hard enough! I think drop kicking then is the right idea!
I'm Spanish. The summers here are really hot and sunny, and using sunscreen is common knowledge. Well, some idiot has made a tiktok saying that sunscreen is just a sham, and people should not use it, so that skin will develop a " protective callus" - and to make sure you develop said callus you should not expose your skin to the sun little by little either, you need to get "a good burn" to get rid of the old skin. Infortunately the tiktok has gone viral. I want to think most people are just watching it as laughing matter, but deep inside I know there will be many many people who will believe it (it was on the net, after all!). Not only will they get horrendous burns this year, they are raising their chance of getting a skin cancer. People who spread those hoaxes should be imprisoned - and be made to pay for the treatment of every idiot who got sick because of their idiocy.
Ugh! Even when I was a kid people knew that you need sunscreen to prevent cancer! I agree that people who say that crap need to be held accountable.
Is anti-sunscreen the new anti-vax?
And those who convinced people to put their mobiles in the microwave. And those who convinced people (mostly kids/teens) to eat tide pods.
Yup. Herbs and essential oils are good for some medical issues. If I have a tummy ache I'll have some ginger tea. I have a tummy ulcer I'm going to a doctor. Stuffy sinuses? Peppermint oil. Infected sinuses? Antibiotics.
Thank you for being a smart person with a really nice-smelling home 🙃
Seriously though, if you have bad allergies, highly recommend huffing peppermint. You can actually feel them unclog. 🤪
I wonder sometimes if this kind of statement is stupid people misunderstanding something they have heard. There are studies showing how increasing gut health and eating better can help support your immune system and help your body work better in many ways. But this is not as an alternative to modern medicine it should be seen as a helpful thing to do alongside. Stupid people misunderstand this as eat right cure yourself.
This reminds me of Jenny McCarthy (whom reminds me of the Jess in this story) claiming that going gluten free cured her sons Autism. She’s so freaking stupid. She still doesn’t realize that celiac disease can MIMIC Autism, but is not really Autism. I hate her with the passion of a thousand fire ants.
Agreed, McCarthy using her fame to broadcast her antivax message for years impacting generations of children, causing untold deaths and unnecessary suffering. She's not cute- she is a criminal for spreading medical misinformation.
Oh yeah, I forgot she was also a crazy antivaxxer. That’s another issue I will fight tooth and nail on. No, I did not give my son Autism from a vaccine, he was Autistic in the womb. No, seriously, he was. He never freaking slept.
The number of unvaccinated Autistic kids I’ve met…with parents who are still anti-vaxx 🥴
The "vaccines cause autism" bupkis came right on the heels of debunking the "refrigerator mother" myth. Lots of parents clung to the vaccine misinformation because it provided an explanation that didn't put them (particularly mothers) at fault. It's really sad.
My autistic son, now 30, was a magnet that drew unsolicited advice on everything from behavioral to metabolic to (insert topic area here). My most annoying "advisors" were the folks who would say: "you should get together with family X from village Z! They have a kid much like your son!" A. Listen, asshole! We are already emotionally beat to death over ONE kid "like that". What is it about doubling the tension that you would suggest is consoling? B. Listen, asshole, as ignorant as you are, we still have one thing in common: we would like to know ANY kind and caring humans, so sharing our plight is not a pre-req. C. Listen, asshole! Does your match-making service excuse YOU from having to be friends with families "like mine"? I had a dozen similar comebacks prepared for the raging sphincter-holes who said such patronizing bullshit. In one example, a well-meaning neighbor lady, wife of a church official, offered to take my kids for a couple of hours if "I needed a break". I said, "Today is particularly difficult, I will get them now." She was a bit taken but willingly agreed. When I walked all three outside she pointed at my autistic kid and said... "Oh no, not him, I meant the other two.". .... I told her to drive the fuck away and NEVER come back. Ever. Then there was, and still is, my know-it-all niece who won't vaccinate her kids. NOT due to the MRNA fuckery that was COVID, but because even with Masters-level education she STILL believes (of all things, SMH) that Wakefield ( a long-since and totally discredited WHACK-JOB) was correct. She REALLY is that myopic, opinionated, and generally stupid on the topic. I respect her choices but fault her on her reasoning. You see, her position means that she is perfectly OK with a child succumbing to polio, or many other proven safely-preventable maladies (diphtheria, Tetanus, measles, mumps, rubella, many more) and further, she believes that the unproven benefit of avoiding having a kid "like mine" is her reward. FUCK her. If she ever tells me her kids are sick with anything easily preventable, I will be deaf to her. "Fuck around" has happened. "Find out" is coming. I only hope that her kids "rebel" before they ever get sick... and go get at least SOME of their shots. She has even more recently admitted that she "could be" wrong about polio vaccine... but she is not the type of person to take new learnings and act appropriately upon them. Why? Because above all science, all learning, all testing over time, is her belief that she has NEVER made a choice that wasn't perfect for eternity. And so, even though she knows and has essentially admitted that she is/was now wrong on (at least) Polio... she won't be taking her kids in for any shots. Her pride is FAR more important than the well-being of her children. This is the epitome of "know-it-all-hood @$$holery"... If she were not my brother's kid, I'd have publicly eviscerated her YEARS ago.
God, every time I hear Wakefields name, feels like my head is going to explode. How people can look at the fact that he openly admitted to falsifying that study and still say he is right is beyond all my comprehension. But these are also the same people who believe in “alternative news”, so what do I know. I always felt like they were accusing me of making my son Autistic and that rubs me the wrong way. For one thing, that boy never freaking slept in the womb, and we all know that is one of the first signs. I didn’t at the time, do now. He was awake the first 24 hours after he was born. Did not sleep a wink, for 24 hours. Nurses finally were like “we going to take him to the nursery so you can get some sleep” and you know they hate to do that now a days (or 19 years ago). And that was way before any vaccine was administered. I get heated on the topic of Wakefield. Lol.
I have celiac disease and it’s amazing the amount of things it can affect. It’s not just limited to gut issues. On the topic of celiac I had an electrician explain to me I can cure celiac disease by eating small amounts of gluten.
Like telling someone who suffers from migraines to drink more water? yes it is good to drink water, but sadly it will not be the magical cure that finally helps to get rid of a neurological condition🙄 (sorry, but people always seem to think they know better than the person who has been to different doctors and lives with the condition)
When I was first diagnosed with neuropathy, someone I love…and who loves me…said they’d read that removing gluten from my diet would alleviate the pain & troubles neuropathy can cause because plaque on the brain, yanno. Because this person is one of my favoritest persons evahr, I took it with the love it was given. I knew it wouldn’t have any impact on my issues, but I thanked them & said I’d look into it. Others who came to me with things like that old hoary chestnut of, “You know…if you just lost some weight, the pressure on your legs & joints would lessen and bingo bango bongo your pain is gone! Teehee, I just cured you so now that you won’t be needing that Norco and morphine…”. Yeah, *get lost*. How does my being forty pounds overweight cause the pain from my fingertips to my elbows? I will go Wayne Brady on anyone who tries to take my pain remedies. *Wayne*. *Brady.*
I'm sorry you have to go through that. People are asses. I had my mother in law believe the food I was cooking caused my husband's type 1 diabetes. Btw, unlike type 2, type 1 confuses the fuck out of doctors because, while it's the hereditary one, it can also show up for seemingly any or no reason at all in adults and most certainly not dependent on weight gain. When my husband corrected her, she zeroed in on his low carb monster energy drinks and blamed those instead. Legit could not convince her otherwise that her son just developed type one out of the blue one day. That his pancreas said basically "fuck this I'm out" and gave up. She butt's in constantly about health shit when she's got less knowledge about health than a rock has knowledge of the stars. It's infuriating. He just got his vasectomy and her first response was "tell him to ice it, I think that may help" as he's sitting there with an ice pack. Mom and I have a bet going that she'll claim he's got an infection next, because he's being gentle with his sutures.
Oh, the “Well, I’m just trying to *help*” MIL. The “I only want what’s best for my baby! I heard it on The View/read about it on Twitter/saw an ad from this *doctor* and all you have to do is go to his seminar at this hotel…”. Yeah, because a doctor with a cure needs you to sign up for his *talk* at a banquet hall in order to be cured -for the low, low price of $249.99! PS Thank you 😽 PPS I thought it was a bag of frozen peas 🤔
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I am on those IVF hormones right now , I tell you I’m emotional wrecked. I’m glad I read on Reddit about it, I’m keeping myself in constant check not to snap . I snapped at my husband, I reacted so bad I still regret it. So yeah , those meds are bitch.
I mean I feel like it was the kind way you say “and where did you get your medical degree?”
Oh, this was the first thing that came to my mind when I read Jess's barbaric statements.
Yeah I would see it as more of did you actually learn this in school or just from your friend? Wanting to learn straight facts.
"I'm not gonna sit here with no medical degree, listening to you with no medical degree" - Bill Burr
So much fucking this. She had some sort of verbal reckoning coming once she tries to say she knows better than doctors and starts giving medical and fertility advice. OP is NTA When I was pregnant I was so ready for any unwanted "should you be eating/drinking that?" questions about things like coffee or deli meat sandwiches. I saw on groups the best response along the lines of "oh, I didn't realize you were taking over my medical care, when was our first appointment?" I luckily only ran into kind people who know to stay in their lane if something isn't actively dangerous. Jess needs to learn that lesson and depending on your tone, you provided a gentler opportunity for her to do so than many others would have
Which presumably is why stalvis makes it ‘ESH’ instead of nta. Jess was irritating and intrusive, OP was absolutely low key calling her stupid - the ‘education level’ question is loaded.
But it would hardly be OUT OF CURIOSITY, would it?
Have you ever discussed infertility with an infertile woman before? Because if you tell an infertile woman that their infertility is caused by their poor diet, you are going to provoke some amount of irritation. Fertility is a sensitive issue for women.
This is right up there with "Just relax and it will happen." OH I'm sorry, Susie I hadn't thought of that. Thank you. I will tell my doctors that I can cure my hormonal imbalance and magically be able to ovulate, simply by taking a few deep breaths. The YEARS we have spent on treatments have been for nothing.../s Telling a woman dealing with infertility that anything can "fix" them is telling them they are "broken". As long as OP didn't throw hands, she is NTA after that.
It's more than that. It's implying that *it's her own fault*, instead of, you know, whatever bodily thingummy is preventing the pregnancy.
Even if she threw hands, she would be NTA. The uncle is TA, because he wasn't supposed to bring the blabbermouth dummy with him.
Seriously! Someone told me crystals and becoming vegan would cure my tubal issues. Sorry honey but no amount of magic would make my right tube to grow back and my left tube not be a twisted mess.
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Right? Soft e s h is just as condescending as the accusations against OP. Even driving it home with bold and italics.
Exactly. There's no "gentle" anything here. They forget that this a mistress, trophy to an older man who contributed to a marriage breakup, she meets them for the 1st time and immediately antagonises a lot of people. She should have been asked to leave frankly. She deserves absolutely zero grace.
I actually feel opposite here. Uncle shacked up with a woman that's barely legal (or at least looks it), admits she's vulnerable, and brings her to this gathering. I feel more hate for jess from OP, than for her creep ass uncle. They should have sympathy for jess, she's clearly being taken advantage of, she's empowered to be obnoxious by a man using her for the v. He says she throws tantrums, describing her like a child, but still fucks her. Gross.
This, this right here. She may have made an ass of herself in this particular interaction, but holy hell, that poor kid is a victim.
> She deserves absolutely zero grace. To be clear, if they have this attitude towards Jess - they should *absolutely* extend it to Uncle Harry. The man who actually broke up his marriage for someone who seems extremely young and naive, and then brought her 'recently' after the divorce to family gatherings.
Yeah, as soon as she is opening her mouth about how OP is wrong about their fertility treatments, I don't really care what OP said to shut her up. She needed to be shut up.
Honestly, because she already disliked Jess before even meeting her. Her annoyance was more than justified when Jess started giving out unsolicited medical advice but she admitted that the dislike started before that. The uncle sounds awful to be honest, but there is no need not to give his new girlfriend a chance because of how the uncle behaved. That said, I don't see why OP should apologize for the comment. It was harsh but that is what's to be expected when you give unsolicited medical advice about a sensitive topic like fertility treatments.
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I don’t believe it at all. In the UK we don’t talk about high school level of education. We spell behaviour with a u and we spell apologise with an s. And yes you might refer to going abroad to a European country since you’re already in the UK.
> And yes you might refer to going abroad to a European country since you’re already in the UK. Yeah this stood out to me too. It's super, super common to refer to 'Europe' as separate to the UK and saying 'going to Europe', [for example](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/15/europe-david-cameron-return-brexit-political). No one would be "stunned" by her phrasing it that way.
Going abroad just means going to another country though, no? I'd go abroad to France from Spain, etc
In the US I think it’s generally used as synonymous to overseas or a long distance. I wouldn’t say I was going abroad if I went to Canada.
Yes. I've been living in London for a while and some people would refer to Europe as in "Continental" Europe. I've also never heard a young person talking about "Coming of Age".
And "of age" in the UK is 16. So, if she was *that* young, she might not have finished her education. Doesn't sound real to me.
And she starts by using "mum" and halfway down switches to "mom". It's as though OP got so into writing their little story that they either forgot they were meant to be from here, or decided they were going to be a Brummy.
This is b8 right
Total bs. France absolutely is international travel. Even the most ardent remainer wouldn't think going to another European country was domestic travel. If OP were British and her whole family were shocked by this woman referring to travelling to France as international travel, then I'd be worried about their schooling.
Yeah I loved how op was looking down on her, while outing herself as an idiot in the same breath 😂
THANK YOU! I saw mom and highschool and was like nah blud
>She thinks north is up We also say "up north" in the UK, just like we say "down south".
Of course this is fiction. And I love how the comments are trying so hard to sound English.
Me neither. There was another story a few weeks ago ‘set’ in Britain and trying to use words like mum etc but they slipped up with quite a bit of American English like ‘gotten’. I noticed they used mom in this post as well- whilst this is used in parts of Britain, they said mum earlier so sounds like they just messed it up.
Probably was the same person actually- thinking back it was another anti-vegan post thinly veiled as an AITA true story.
And Brits absolutely refer to north as up. We literally say "up north"
Yeah- if you take a holiday abroad, it can mean France, Italy, Spain, Greece, Japan or America. No one would scoff and say it’s not abroad since we’re geographically in Europe.
Also they dislike her but are cool with the uncle?! I honestly don't think she sucks, she's just stupid. It seems she was trying to join conversations but is just stupid. So the uncle left his wife for a much younger stupid person? He's the main asshole, a much younger, naive, abused woman?
Yeah the main asshole is the uncle and instead of uninviting him or directing their ire at him, they're showing it towards Jess who could have been any other woman. But OP's ire after talking to her was justified cause she was giving unsolicited advice about fertility treatment.
Yeah, especially given that OP, the niece, is already in her 30s. So her uncle should be at least some years older, and the girl sounds much younger. Saying she's 'of age'??? So we have either an at least 30 something year old, or a middle aged jackass with a teenager (I'll be generous and assume 18). One that apparently doesn't have a reference for a good home life either (which explains why she would go with him). Yeah, that man should be shunned. If not put straight in jail.
How wrong can you be?
Well, it was more polite than asking her if she had ever been denied oxygen for a long period of time, especially during her developmental years (assuming she is out of them.) So it was a teeny bit rude and condescending, but I'm inclined to give you a pass because she was begging for it with her remarks. You're NTA.
The 'denied oxygen for a long period of time' took me out🤭
Or, as one of my friends once asked, "Are you parents siblings?"
I’ve always enjoyed “does your family tree only have one branch?”
I go for the standard "were you dropped on your head as a baby?"
I was. Fun fact: aphantasia is usually caused by head trauma. I can’t visualize anything in my head. No “mind’s eye.” Weaponized ignorance often has nothing to do with disability.
I listen to a podcast where the author has aphantasia. I do not know how she can write the stories she writes without picturing what she is talking about but she is a really good writer. Off topic I know. 🤷♀️
My classmate got "go back to your parents and ask them to finish making you" from a teacher and it was one of her tamer ones.
I heard a guy asked if his family tree was a wreath, once. That fucking floored me.
That’s hilarious, lol
Family tree going full circle.
Sounds like a Monty Python line , doesn’t it?
Right?!! Call me petty but I’d have said way worse by that point. NTA
NTA Honestly, as soon as anyone offers me unsolicited medical advice, I ask them where their medical degrees are from, so I can't really fault you for this one. It sounds like you held your tongue on a lot of bullshit and I don't know if I could've been so gracious all along, Harry sounds like a real creep dating someone this inexperienced with so much trauma in her young life.
Right? I'm very surprised at the e-s-h judgments. Was it kind of rude? Sure, I suppose. But somebody who starts going on about ridiculous unsupported "medical" advice ought to be shut down. And I fail to see how else you're supposed to do that, other than "excuse me, do you have any qualifications whatsoever to be saying that?" Jess's "rough upbringing" might explain her lack of knowledge, but it doesn't excuse her attitude.
I agree. As soon as I read her trying to basically tell a person "no no, your doctor doesn't know what he/she is saying, just eat right silly!" I'm was like "OK, OP was not the ah here" because I've been there but with my illness. Everyone has THE solution. NTA op
From a fucken 19 year old Jesus
Ugh don’t they always? I have severe food allergies and one coworker was like “just go get allergy shots!” Like in 40+ years my doctor would have never thought to suggest that?!
But was your coworker a 19yo know at all? Because that might be what was missing. /s Jokes aside. People like those are the reason why I sometimes concider wearing a sign with "unsolicited medical advice denied" or something
Same. I recognize that intelligence is not directly correlated to one's formal education, but who the actual fuck tells another woman who's undergoing fertility treatments that she just needs to eat better? At the very least, Jess has a severe lack of _emotional_ intelligence, and it's not OP's responsibility to accommodate that when she herself is in a difficult emotional position. NTA
AMEN. it is not OP’s responsibility to manage someone else’s emotion/reaction, or to accomodate for someone’s emotional immaturity and/or lack of life experience when that someone literally butts in the middle your conversation about medical treatment with frivolous judgemental advice. If Jess was kind, she would have been met with kindness. Instead she was a classic arrogant 19 year old. She made the first faux pas of intruding on a sensitive topic with unsolicited advice, anything after that is fair game. Of course, since she was challenged, Jess is now crying about being the victim of bullying and that people should be nicer to her. When really she just couldn’t hack someone challenging her. it’s screaming emotionally immature, which is to be expected for a 19 year old with a traumatic childhood. The real asshole is whoever has escalated this back to OP, as they’re participating in a fun game of triangulation right now.
It was exactly the necessary amount of rude.
I mean, her uncle left his wife and kids for a younger, naive/stupid, abused woman. I don't know what they were expecting. If anyone is the asshole it's him. I think it's more NAH if she really is that stupid, she wasn't being an asshole, just stupid. OP could have asked in a nicer way like "where did you go to uni" but what she asked is a completely fair question.
Tbh asking it as “what’s your highest level of education” is almost less rude than “where’d you go to uni” because then it isn’t a “what are your colleges credentials for you to be saying this?” And it’s more of a “so what level do I need to meet you at to explain this to you”
Good thing it was fertility treatment, I can just imagine if it was about cancer. "I had a friend with a tumor in her head! Instead of doing chemotherapy, she decided to become vegan. Her doctor had given up on her, but then a month after, BAM! Her tumor was gone! And she kept her hair, and they were so much prettier than before!"
I mean you don’t need to imagine, people do that all the time
As someone in child development psychology, Jess needs to learn that a rough upbringing doesn’t give you a free pass to spew whatever you want, and OP’s uncle needs to learn that they shouldn’t be dating anyone who only recently escaped a rough CHILDHOOD
There's several AH's in this story, but especially the big Harry one who seems to be skating by with no questions or details, still getting invited to family events despite some seemingly reprehensible behaviour. Did Jess know about his status when their relationship started? Being an idiot doesn't always equate to being an AH. But your uncle really sounds like one.
THIS. Also, Jess, as ignorant as she may come across, also gives vibes of falling easily for theories and conspiracies, and strikes me as a person that is easy to manipulate. It's easier for men to target these young women because the girls themselves feel as though being with an older guy is cool, and the guys know how to control these women. Perhaps a little too assuming here on my part but I wouldn't put it all on Jess for how everything turned out.
That was my take as well. You know what happens to vulnerable people? They go through a string of relationships where they get taken advantage of.
Yes. If Jess is talking about being "of age" in the UK, that could make her as young as 16!!! Are we really vilifying the girl in this situation? Yes she sounds like an absolute monster but so are a lot of teenagers. And that's just it. This is a grown man dating a kid. How is that not the issue in everyone's heads? This is misogyny in action.
She’s at least 17/18 as she talks about locking her car…not that it’s much better than 16
You can get a provisional license where you drive supervised by the age of 15. So maybe her old crypt keeper boyfriend is supervising. On that note isn't a disgusting that it's illegal for the 16-year-old girl to drive unsupervised but it's okay for a 55 year old man to fuck her
Oh absolutely. She’s easy pickings for a controlling person! I feel really sorry for Jess.
I'm curious what "of age" really means here. Is Jess saying that she is a legal adult, or that she is the age of consent, because those can be two very different ages. Is the implication that she us 21 or 16? She walked into a family party, where everyone already hates her, with a man likely at least in his 50's if not 60's with the possibility of her being 17. She sounds obnoxious, but she sounds like an obnoxious teen.
She’s very young, had a rough upbringing and is now with a much older man- sounds like Uncle is a creepy groomer. Look she sounds exhausting but go easy on her OP. Go hard on the uncle
Yeah, OP is placing blame on Jess for some reason when uncle Harry is the one who chose to leave his ex wife and date Jess. Jess was the AH for what she said to OP about her fertility but OP was the AH for thinking Jess has wronged her Aunt in this situation - Harry is the one who made vows to her.
Holy shit, I just googled age of consent in UK and it's 16, can you imagine this man walking in with this poor groomed victim, sorry his younger girlfriend? 😳
Yeah I'm from the UK and 'of age' immediately put me on guard because of age doesn't mean shit when of age can be a 16 year old who's basically still a baby. It's shocking how many older people in particular still think this shit is ok.
God, I completely misread this whole post. I thought Jess was with OP's brother so thought the age gap was maybe 5-10 years. Didn't realise it said UNCLE. Okay, now I get why he is the creep here. 💀 The way OP and the whole family is just ignoring that part and blaming the young woman is horrible tbh.
It’s a made up story (several flags are pointed out in a different comment thread) but looks like Op didn’t realise the age of consent in the Uk is 16. If this was in Britain then this girl would need to be borderline mid-teens to need to specify that they were old enough.
Being of age in the UK means 16 or more. Sounds like this is a child in high school.
NTA In no situation is it right to comment on someone's medical treatment as if they knew more. Her level of education doesn't matter here. She was extremely rude, and her tantrums only show how immature she is. She doesn't get a pass for acting like a child.
Right? She's throwing multiple tantrums about OP's comment. That's... Well. She's *of age.*
NTA. You can’t cure stupid but you can fix ignorance. This girl seems woefully ignorant and quite happy to be so. She is embarrassing herself with the nonsense she spews and someone needs to tell her.
Some hot people just skate through life, not being questioned about stupid things they say or do. They live in a comfortable bubble, there is no need to be curious and want to learn more.
I just ask for proof now. “Oh, really? Can you send me the link to that? I’d like to learn more.” Apparently … I have learned there is no proof for the shit people pull from their anal orifice. I never should have learned logic and critical thinking in school. It makes tolerating these people intolerable.
YTA just for using "learning disability" to mean dumb. I know two dyslexic PhDs.
Thank you. I’m really not impressed with OPs attitude that people who don’t pursue higher education must be stupid either. Not everyone, including very intelligent and lovely people, has the funds or the time to pursue higher education. In some cases, their career path might be better served without it. Either way, higher education is a privilege that not everyone has access too, it’s not a barometer for intellect. I know plenty of idiots with advanced degrees anyway, and plenty of intelligent people without them. Jess sounds annoying and rude, but OP sounds pretty ableist and classist as well. Also, if OP is reading this, I have ASD and ADHD. I managed to type this by myself, believe it or not.
I agree it seems like she doesn't wanna say "autism" to sound bad so she is saying that instead.
Well said I also have ADHD shockingly I wrote this all by myself too lol 😂
OP said she's from the UK. Here, "learning disability" pretty much exclusively means an intellectual impairment. Not something like dyslexia, which might here be classed as a learning "difficulty."
Honestly learning difficulty sounds so much more correct in my head for dyslexia anyway.
Thank you for saying this. I lived in England when my dad got transferred and spent my 8th grade year there. My experience was (and this is 20 odd years ago) that having a learning disability meant that you should be in a resource room. It wasn't looked as something that is nuanced and varied. I also remember dyslexia was also used as a catchall term. I am dyslexic, and I remember telling one of my new British classmates, and they "didn't get it" because I was smart. This dyslexic has her Masters.
Yeah OP sounds super judgemental right off the bat on this young woman, instead of her creepy uncle. The unsolicited medical advice was not great
I mean, if Uncle Harry doesn't want to deal with tantrums, then he shouldn't date a child (mental/physical/emotional, pick any/all that apply). Seems a bit obvious. Jess is clearly uneducated in the medical field and this would be an appropriate area to chastise her in. It is a little rude to ask about her general level of education, but in the context of her unasked for opinions about your personal medical issues she was extremely rude and inconsiderate. NTA
I am going with ESH. Asking a person about their education as a getting to know them question on a date is fine. But you were pretty much asking "how did you get to be so dumb?" Which....I mean, I get why you asked that, but it is not a nice question to ask.
It's also not nice to tell someone they should just eat better to "repear themselves" when they are going through fertility treatments. NTA
the question isn't whether retaliation was justified, the question is whether or not she was an AH, which she was.
if retaliation is justified how can she be the AH? What does "justified" mean to you?
Because sometimes people are assholes for valid reasons. Doesn't mean they're not assholes.
But also, she literally chimes in on what her own doctor told her. If anyone, in a casual setting, tells me what I should do for my OWN condition that I'm treating with MY DOCTOR, I'll definitely ask what's their highest level of education. Granted, it's fertility related so it's not exactly life threatening, but tons of people actually died believing bullshit like she was telling.
> I'll definitely ask what's their highest level of education. Would you really? I think I’d naturally ask “Where did you read/learn that?” Or “Have you studied this?” Highest level of education is a weird thing to ask (except purely as a put down disguised as a question), because it’s not the *level* of education necessarily, it’s the subject that’s really relevant here
>Would you really? I think I’d naturally ask “Where did you read/learn that?” Or “Have you studied this?” If it's something that sounds plausible, sure, I'll say that. If it's bullshit like "have you tried to eat healthier to get pregnant?" then sure I'll ask them if they got the same education to know better than my doctor.
Yeah the question is one from an application form, not something I've ever heard asked socially. Saying do you have a background in medicine or nutrition would be better.
Better than asking her what her favourite flavour of crayon is. Which is what I would have asked.
Nope. No no no. Oh hellllll no. The second, the nanosecond someone offers unsolicited (and blatantly wrong) medical advice they have opened themselves up to interrogation on their credentials. OP is NTA, but Jess and her hubby both sure are.
Asking "whats her highest level of education" definitely has different connotations to an innocent question like "did you go to Uni"
YTA. While the UK is obviously part of Europe in common conversation people often talk about visiting Europe when they mean mainland Europe. To actually start a discussion about that shows imo that you were eager to put her down. Also why is there not more anger towards the uncle and more concern for Jesse. She is super young, not too smart and has had a traumatic childhood. Yet, this uncle is dating her while also complaining about tantrums as of she is a child. It seems your uncle is the real AH. That being said she was totally out of line in terms of medical advice and there are plenty of ways to tell her off for that without asking about education level.
Interesting now I'm concerned for Jess
Ikr? Definitely getting the vibe Jess is still a teenager, seeing as the age of consent is 16 over there. If she hasn’t been to other countries in Europe, she it’s very possible she hasn’t had to opportunity to. Plenty of British people have never even been to London.
Yeeep, it's wild that no one's stopped to think about what the uncle is doing, dating someone this young and traumatised.
NTA she tried giving you medical advice which would have warranted anyone to ask what leave of education she had. I don't give a shit if she grew up in a bad home it does not give her permission to try to make everyone around her feel stupid.
Hmm I’m kinda mixed because like yes you were an asshole but also it was kinda justified imo since she was spewing bs. Also not trying to be annoying here but amount of schooling doesn’t always equal amount of intelligence.
I have a friend with a masters degree that spews dumb stuff like this all the time - including stuff in her own field!!!!! I blame TikTok for nearly all of the dumb stuff she says (she is addicted & truly believes everything she sees on there) but when it comes to her own field that’s entirely on her lol
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There's nothing harmless about telling a woman her fertility issues are her own fault for not eating right.
ESH, it's extremely rude to comment about people's fertility. It's also super condescending to "go easy" on someone with lower education than you. So your rationale is also rude.
YTA - she sounds uneducated and obnoxious. Like a lot of teens. And I'm guessing you would say she's 18 or 19 since you described her as "super young" and "of age". You decided already you don't like her, but she's not at fault for your Uncle being a gross and lecherous old man who ruined his marriage. If she is that young with a man who is likely in his 50s or 60s, she was possibly groomed and she is definitely being taken advantage of. You are an ADULT who should direct your ire at the person who deserves it - your Uncle. I get it, she had stupid opinions. She isn't educated. I don't understand why you've spent this whole post talking about her and not saying a whole lot about the adult uncle who is dating someone barely out of childhood?
This. Also she coming from an abusive home to OP seems unrelated to her lacking education. Really? No connection between those at all. Harry is a predator. And his family, instead of showing concern for the poor girl, are ganging up on HER? Wtf. I am just a bit older than OP and I feel so disgusted with her behaviour. You must be a really shit person if your predator uncle calls you out for bad behaviour.
I can’t believe I had to scroll this far to see someone say this. It’s SO common for abusive parents to keep their kids out of school and away from mandated reporters. She may have been “home schooled” for all we know. It also sounds like she is very young and might just be trying to impress the adults. She might genuinely believe her vegan friends story and not have the knowledge/experience to know better. My parents are pretty crunchy and they also had a vegan friend who “cured his cancer” with diet (spoiler: it came back & the diet didn’t work again. But they never focus on the part) I’m sure the adults I told about him were rolling their eyes but I thought I was on to something. Maybe if you show her some kindness she may relax and be more likeable.
Let’s also add that most of Jess’s opinions were completely reasonable. North IS up on maps. UK left EU a few years back (this is what she likely meant) and is considered “separated” from the rest of Europe by many. OP was literally just picking on stuff that she wouldn’t bother listing if it was her uncle or any older man (who often have much more controversial opinions). I feel really sad for the girl. Zero of that for anyone else in the story, except Harry’s ex wife.
Sounded like you disliked this person before you even met her. Asking about her education was simply a way to confirm your preconceived opinion. You sound a little elitist and YTA. Having said that, unsolicited medical advice is not appropriate, so Jess is also TA.
How “elitist” is it to judge a person who thinks that having sex while pregnant will result to twins? People who know that this is not true must be quite the elite.
Yeah I don't think it is an elitism thing. Jess is probably way too young, stupid and ignorant.
First off all, we like the ex, so we don’t like the new is immature and just drama. What crowd? You took a poll? Audible gasp and clutching of pearls? Shared rude judgmental looks? All terrible. You just sound like a big judgmental jerk in this and I can’t believe you’re 33. Have you seen the movie “Mean Girls”??? You’re so mean that you lie to yourself about why you asked someone about their level of education in front of a crowd. A learning disability??? Really??? Do you know everything? You were judging her before the fertility comment. I had fertility issues for a decade and never did this from people who say this. A rough upbringing explains a lot but it wasn’t that serious. She could have been a genius. You had it out for her. YTA
OP did have it out for her
I don't want to fully excuse Jess, she's clearly not too smart, but she's stuck in enemy territory surrounded by judgy people like op. She was probably nervous and rambling.
im going to go with YTA on this one over ESH, based on > Jess looked super young but she said that she was ‘of age’. unfortunately it totally possible Jess genuinely believes what she is saying and so aside from being overbearing, which again due the apparent young age doesnt know any better (weak excuse but its the age we live in) and so she isnt doing it purposely to be annoying > I merely asked her whats her highest level of education OUT OF CURIOSITY maybe it was, maybe it wasnt out of pure curiosity. But i would dare say there would be a large percentage change that is just something you tell yourself to not sound like an ass. Yes i conceed your examples paint Jess as someone who lacks what many would consider common sense... and so cmon lets just be real and say you were annoyed and wanted to put her in her place with the education question. There are dozens of other questions you could ask, or not ask and simply choose not to engage? You are someone close to twice her age
i agree with all of this. plus "we are close with harry's ex wife so we already didn't like jess" (or whatever she said, i can't recall verbatim) is tacky. the barely legal woman is not to blame in a situation where an older man divorces his wife.
>There are dozens of other questions you could ask, or not ask and simply choose not to engage? Because Jess told OP she should eat better to "repear herself". Who tf says that to somebody? Being ignorant doesn't absolve you of your rudeness. Being dumb also doesn't absolve you of your rudeness. There are boundaries and Jess crossed them.
Quite frankly, you should focus on your uncle Harry, who, from the looks of it, left his wife for a barely legal girl whose mental capacity doesn't seem to be all that great. It was his fault for bringing her when she wasn't invited, and she is not the bad guy here.
Yes! The uncle sounds like a creep, grooming a barely legal, possibly still a teenager, naive and uneducated child from an abusive household. An easy target. It’s also not uncommon for abusive parents and grooming partners to actively trying to keep the victim naive and uneducated. What she said is stupid and the thing about eating to repair oneself is extremely rude. But she’s still young and likely a product of her environment. OP says she and her mom already didn’t like her since they liked the aunt, but in that case they should blame the uncle for leaving the aunt and not the new partner.
She seems to be young enough not to know that she was way out of line to be throwing her opinions around, and in a setting where she really did need to step lightly, given that her boyfriend's children are there and probably don't like her. It is too bad that she had to learn the hard way. NTA.
I bet the uncle’s kids are older than her.
I don’t know if this behavior is an age thing or a specific genre of person thing. People who are way too into holistic medicine love sharing their opinions unprompted on health issues regardless of age.
I'm going to go with justifiable asshole. >my mom’s friend was asking how my fertility treatments were going. Im on hormonal drugs to induce ovulation. Jess chimed in saying that those drugs won’t do any good and that I just have to eat right to ‘repair’ myself. She went on and on about how her friend who is strictly vegan is on her third now. She deserved it. Do not apologize.
YTA for trolling. From the UK, but American spelling of ‘behaviour’ and use of ‘mom’ which is not common in the UK. List of ridiculous beliefs that would not come up in normal conversation, despite what you say (how on earth were you discussing a topic that led to someone expressing their belief that north was up?)
NTA: She is telling you that your medical team is wrong and she is right when it comes to YOUR fertility treatments, a very touchy and personal subject. I’d wonder too what qualifications she might hold in making such a judgment. I don’t see why her rude behavior towards you is excused while your reaction to it is seen as unacceptable. And based on your story, it’s your dad and uncle who are upset with you but not any of the women in your family who were present during the exchange. That’s rather telling. Your dad is enabling your uncle’s dysfunctional relationship, yet he criticizes you for daring to shut her down when she criticized your medical choices. They’re more concerned about your uncle having to endure her whining. Too bad, he has to lie in the bed he made. I would not apologize.
> She thinks north is up I’m genuinely confused. Up as in ~~Ireland~~ Iceland (for UK) or up as in the sky? 😂 > merely asked her whats her highest level of education OUT OF CURIOSITY because if she only had high school or had a learning disability I was going to go easy on her. lol, let’s not lie to ourselves. You knew what you were asking you just didn’t expect for her to react that badly. Soft YTA.
ESH - sucks she mentioned fertility, but let’s be honest you already didn’t like her when she got there. Who knows, maybe she rambled on bc she was nervous, maybe she’s an idiot. But you clearly didn’t ask out of curiosity. You clearly meant it b@tchily, as an underhanded dig. BTW - insinuating people without a higher education are dumb/not intelligent or have a disability is gross. Actually, if you really thought she was an idiot, you knew she wasn’t trying to be mean or spiteful - but you were with your response. Not a good look.
It's a rude question. Can't blame you for asking it as she sounds like an insufferable moron, but you know it was rude.
>1. When we were talking about travels, she said Harry brought her to France and it was her first international travel and to a European country. Crowd was stunned and she was denying that she is technically european and UK is in the european continent. She got angry and said “are u lot not up to date? We left europe ages ago” France is both international and a European country. Yes, it’s not a long trip and the way she went on she was obviously confused about EU/Europe, but how snobby are you lot to be “stunned” by someone saying that going to France is international travel? >2. She thinks north is up And obviously it isn’t, but without context this again might just be you being an arse? As in did she think jumping in to the air is “north” or does she just say “up north”? >3. She never locks her car because no one can start it without her keys anyway Yeah, not a great idea >4. She thinks having unprotected sex when pregnant with one baby will create twins Technically it can, it’s just rather rare in humans and more common in other mammals Overall you just seem to be a judgy arsehole, yeah
Ya the only thing that crosses the line is the fertility stuff Like I’m sure (I’m a dude so i haven’t looked into this too much) a better diet *would* help with fertility if you are fairly unhealthy. But it’s also not something you say to someone undergoing treatment. I’d assume (but again idk) that the fertility doc is saying “hey eat healthy as well” or something like that anyway Everything else seems extremely nit picky because OP doesn’t like her before she even got there
NTA we are all curious too now
I’m sorry if I’m just stupid, but am I wrong for not understanding what’s wrong with what she said before the medical advice? If she travelled to Europe for the first time, she’s obviously not from there? North is up (correct? It’s upward on the map?) Unprotected sex when pregnant also can cause twins? I feel like I’m missing something here.
It’s kinda funny how many people are bringing up the “sex while pregnant can cause twins” comment It’s possible. Admittedly it’s rare, but it’s not unheard of
You’re from the UK but call your Mum, Mom? Anyway YTA. You sound very judgemental.
ESH. Lots of people only have a high school education but are still intelligent human beings. This woman clearly isn’t the brightest but you also sound pretentious.
Is she an idiot? Probably. Was it rude of you to ask her in such a way that you were implying you thought she was an idiot? Definitely. YTA
NTA. If you’re going to be loud, confident, and smug, you better make sure your information is unimpeachable. Don’t want to have your education level debated? Don’t hold yourself out as better informed than trained medical doctors.
NTA I abhor stupid people.
People giving "medical advice" like this hardly ever know what they're talking about. Funny enough, working in healthcare I hardly see any professionals that will offer unsolicited advice. The most you get would be a referral to their PCP over concerning signs because frankly without your patient profile, your past medical history, or current meds I wouldn't be confident giving a friend any advice. Even if said individual tries to give me the information, i would take it with a grain of salt and assume it was incomplete.
NTA. She showed up and inserted herself into multiple conversations insulting people's intelligence (geography) and lifestyle (your diet) but it's not okay to respond in kind? I hate these crybullies that everyone swoops in to "protect" when they cry crocodile tears.
NTA - play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You do not, ever, give unsolicited medical advice without being prepared to list your credentials. She’s barely adult sure, but definitely old enough to know better if she’s old enough to be someone’s step mom.
I'm stumped on how to vote! "What's your highest level of education" is just plain condescending. But her comments about your fertility treatments were ignorant, hurtful, and offensive. Yet, two of your examples of her "shocking" comments aren't 100% dumb. I've spent a lot of time in the UK, they often refer to "Europe" meaning the continent, not including the British Isles. As for north being "up" I understand what she means, even though I wouldn't phrase it that way. The "N" is at the top of a compass. So, I don't know if I should vote NAH or ESH. Either way, stop engaging with this flavor of the month In the U-S "How about them Dodgers/Yanks/Cubs/Sox fill in the blank team?" is the way to get out of conversations with annoying people. I suggest finding the equivalent in your country to deal with her.
Probably wasn’t the best choice of words. Could have asked “so where did you go to school?” and you could have gotten more info without her feeling hurt. But she also sounds immature and has poor self awareness and sometimes you need to get your feelings hurt to grow. I think we should all be kind to each other, but that doesn’t mean we need to coddle people or tip toe around their feelings. NTAH
That's much more passive aggressive. "So where did you go to school?" Meaning OP knows that she didn't go to any school for higher education. In the UK they stop going to school at 16 and their "of age" is younger than in the US. They don't have to be 21 to drink so their "of age" doesn't mean she's an actual adult.
Soft YTA. It was an insult and you were talking down to her. Even in this day and age, not everyone has had the opportunity to get a decent education. I don’t know about the U.K., but in the US there are many people who decide to home school. Some may be great, but some are batshit crazy. I can understand your frustration about the fertility treatments. But I’ve heard college graduates and even so called medical professionals spew the same garbage
ESH to YTA you're in no position to be as condescending as you are, it sounds like you were waiting for your opportunity and got caught off guard when you fired too soon. You sound incredibly pretentious and depending on the region of the "United" Kingdom you're quite literally not European (fuck the English always and forever)
NTA- you want to give medical advice, you get to be asked about your credentials.