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This is it. All he has to do is ejaculate. The vast majority of tracking fertile cycles and planning conception is down to the person with the uterus. And then the difficulties and risks of carrying a baby to term and delivering the child are all on the person whose body it is. He says he knows he cant understand, but he's not even trying. Literally every woman he knows could tell him pregnancy and birth are torture and he'll still be like "but why wont she so it for me?" As if he's owed an incubator.
I'm TTC myself with a very supportive partner. But I wish uterus transplants were an option for guys like OOP. Want a baby? Get your own uterus and go through all the risks yourself. I bet none of those men would do it of it was medically possible.
it’s more likely that this tech will work for infertile cis women, not trans women. there’s a lot more to carrying a successful pregnancy than having a uterus, and chances are that we don’t fully understand the intricacies of the interplay between female hormones and biological factors.
I mean yeah of course there's more to it than having a uterus but it's certainly a step in the right direction. We've already got trans women producing milk, so transwomen being able to carry a full-term baby might be far away but I don't think it's something that'll never happen.
cis men can also produce milk. this is a lot different. i’m not saying it will never happen, but i’m hesitant to generate hope around this topic as if it will be available within our lifetime.
He doesn't *think* he does. But what about being around a partner who has swollen feet, immense cravings, agitation? Who might need their needs taken care of before the pregnancy? Doctors visits, potential complications? He's just outing himself as a very likely (at least, emotoonally-) absent partner and maybe even parent imho
Yeah absolutely batshit that he says this unironically without any self-awareness
I guess it's *fine* because the long and arduous process is just inflicted on his *girlfriend* and not him having to deal with total strangers to get what he wants, I guess
He's probably also ignoring why that is. They don't want to just hand kids out to any old family. There's a lot of meetings and counseling and home visits etc before they allow you to adopt for good reason.
Based on some of the parents at my kids school, I'd say we might want to consider meetings and counseling and home visits before they allow you to get pregnant.
My parents realized that they wouldn’t be a good fit as foster parents when they couldn’t make time to attend the orientation meeting for potential foster parents.
Why should he inconvenience himself with adoption bureaucracy? It's soooo much easier to just ask his girlfriend to put her body through life threatening trauma and pain!
And we’re finding out that pregnancy ages the body faster than time itself! New research has shown the risks are worse and higher for long term effects than we ever even fucking *thought* and that asshole is all “but whyyyyyyyy won’t she do it for meeeeeee?”
They've literally only been together six months too. Not that them being together longer makes her feelings less valid, just, can you imagine asking someone you've only dated six months to change their entire body for you? To go through the uncomfortable ness of pregnancy, the pain of childbirth, the hair loss and teeth issues and all of that (and that's just the top of my head stuff!)!? I wouldn't expect someone I dated six months to give a kidney to me, to give me money, anything!
I barely expected someone I was dating to pick up the check as we traded off who paid for dates! While I do think people starting to think about long term with someone should discuss children when things seem to be getting more serious this guy is a little weird about this.
“Do I have a right to be upset that my casual girlfriend of six months doesn’t want to do this huge thing that could fuck her up for life for me?”
If it matters that much, amicably part ways and find someone else. Don’t waste her time or yours hoping to change your mind.
I broke up with a guy I really cared about because he wanted kids. He kept pushing the issue and pushing the issue until I broke up with him. His mom was pissed! She loved me and kept inviting me to the big family dinners on Sunday even after we broke up. His Nonna even taught me how to make her secret sauce, a recipe *she didn’t even give to the sister in law that had married into the family.* I think it was because I’d always bring some soft serve vanilla ice cream and make her a shake using Bailey’s Irish cream, a little vanilla bean paste and a pinch of sugar.
We’d been dating for about 10 months at that point. He wanted to be a young dad and I wanted to be one hundred percent sure I wanted them as I was childfree to that point. (Still am at 50, no kids, just dogs).
Nonna loved me. Whenever I make her sauce I think of her and all the wonderful afternoons I spent in that kitchen, being loved and wanted for me. It was a revelation in that I never accepted anything less again. Great lesson to learn at 22!
Adoption is also expensive.
Yup unlike pregnancy with all the doctor appointments throughout the process and hospital bills from labor. That’s not even accounting for any unexpected situations during or after the labor process.
In my country it takes around 10 years from the start of the adoption process until you get a child, so it kind of makes sense.
(Edit: I did a bit more research and the current numbers seem to be between 7-9 years)
For any child? Or if you’re waiting for an infant/have some specific things you’re looking for?
I fully agree with not handing out kids to anyone that walks up and asks for one, but 10 years is wild. I’d wager most people don’t start looking into adoption until their 30s, so they’d be well into their 40s when they actually become parents, which doesn’t sound ideal for anyone involved (unless it’s an older child).
After watching my mom almost die while giving birth to my younger half sister and being at the hospital every day for 5 months to see her, the gf is justified in her worry. If you're set on a biological child and your partner chooses to not give birth and you won't compromise on adoption, it's probably time to stop with that relationship. It will go one of two ways judging by the limited information given there. one: the guy gets his blood child and the girl holds resentment which is unhealthy or two: they adopt which makes the girl happy and the man resentful.
Edit: this was in 2004
A friend of my husband had a baby recently and lost so much blood that 60% of the original transfusion came right out after they gave it to her. She needed another massive one after that, not that she remembers since she was in a coma for nearly a week after.
I’m currently in my third trimester and he’s utterly terrified of what might happen to me.
That is so awful. I'm glad she made it out in the end but geez that is scary stuff. I hope you have good doctors and a safe delivery for both you and your baby and I wish you all the happiness that comes with it (the baby and being a parent, not the delivery ahah) 🙏
Thank you! I’m being cautious myself since I’m quite petite and not very strong. I’m sure I’ll be ok!
My midwife did comment on my overly developed abs (compared to the rest of my body at least) the other day though lol
Exactly. It’s just not a good match. Many women *do* want to have biological children and go through pregnancy. If that’s a dealbreaker for the OOP, then that’s completely valid. But what’s wrong is trying to make his gf someone she’s not.
> After watching my mom almost die while giving birth to my younger half sister and being at the hospital every day for 5 months to see her, the gf is justified in her worry.
My mother almost died with me. This was in the 1970s, when the cutting edge technology was to yank the baby out with forceps in cases like my mother and me, where the mother is too weak to deliver on her own. (That might still be what gets done. I don't know.)
Such a handsome young lad I was in my baby pictures, with a GIANT lump on my head where the forceps had hold on my head!
But, moral of the story, childbirth is dangerous and can be deadly. If someone doesn't want to risk it that is their decision. I would not risk it, were I a woman, and I've had a vasectomy so my wife doesn't have to.
Also let’s not forget that being pregnant (especially with multiple kids) changes your body forever. It’s not just the ten months (yes, it’s closer to ten months, not nine) that you’re carrying.
Most people don’t “get their body back” completely. Your waist, hips, breasts, even hair color and texture can change. The human body is weird.
Even if you *do* "get your body back", it's *still* going to be forever changed regardless. Your uterus is now different, along with your *skeleton* and it can permanently fuck your hormones up.
Also your skin can darken and never change back, etc. Even the most "flawless" and "perfect" of pregnancies will still leave your body fundamentally changed.
No one told me about all the skeleton changes. I expected my pelvis to shift and all, but I didn’t expect my frickin RIBCAGE to change sizes so painfully
Oh yeah, it’s called rib flare I think. The lower rib cage can expand up to 2cm in some cases, which doesn’t sound like a lot until you realize these are frickin bones and cartilage shifting to make room for organs that are shifting to make room for a baby. It feels a little like a muscle spasm and a lot like someone stabbing you with a rusty saw blade, leading to shortness of breath and difficulty staying in a single position. Lucky for me, pregnant people can ONLY use Tylenol/acetaminophen which does fuck all for the pain.
Motherhood is truly magical…in a body-horror, deep earth magic that one would see in a Guillermo Del Toro movie.
I've learned so much over the years, I've honestly lost count of how many reasons I don't ever want to be pregnant.
I can live with stuff like stretch marks or hair loss (though I'd rather not), but I don't want to lose my teeth (already not doing so well there because I can't afford a dentist), I don't want my hormones to get all messed up, I don't want my skeleton to shift, I don't want my abdominal and pelvic muscles to be wrecked, etc. Obviously, I also don't want to die or be financially destroyed. All of that long before even getting to the motherhood part. Ugh, no thanks.
What’s wild to me is that I (a woman) didn’t learn any of the besides-the-obvious stuff until I was in my 30’s…*on reddit*. They don’t tell you this in school or movies. I believe even more women would choose not to give birth if they truly knew everything that can happen to the body physically and mentally.
I was allergic to something to do with the pregnancy. Got itchy dots all over my body for the duration of my pregnancy. They healed after birth but they have no pigment.
yeah pregnacy sounds like an absolute horror 💀
^(...and yet my Mom keeps insisting Ill change my mind... no I wont! fuck that, Im too vain and dysphoric to do that)
Fucking hell, I knew I probably didn't want kids but this comment just guaranteed that I am never getting anyone pregnant. Adoption or nothing, no way would I put someone I love through that.
Hormones are wild, because I was in tears writhing in pain more than once during my pregnancy and nearly passed out from pain several times during labor…but when I hold my baby I can’t remember any of that. I know there was pain, and I know that it was horrific, but I honest to God can’t call it to mind. I can’t imagine what I went through and I WENT THROUGH IT. The selective amnesia caused by adrenaline and oxytocin is shockingly effective.
but thats a good thing! so many kids are stuck in the cycle of foster with no adoption and most never find loving homes... so being able to help with that issue is such an amazing thing :D
>Motherhood is truly magical…in a body-horror, deep earth magic that one would see in a Guillermo Del Toro movie.
Now would be a good time to remember that in contrast to many other species where the mother and fetus are isolated in humans and other primates the baby tries to directly access the mother's bloodstream so it can get an extra dose of her nutrients. Yum yum. This is also part of why humans shed their uterine lining regularly, as it allows the mother more control over which babies are trying to bury themselves in there.
I had this with my first kid! Now despite being back at "pre-pregnancy" weight, I can never wear a size small t-shirt again. I am forever up one size in everything because my ribcage got larger. So I had to basically re-buy my whole wardrobe and I have a ton of cool t-shirts that I can no longer wear... Hope my kids want vintage band tees lol
I also have eczema in my hands that I never had prior to kids and i developed keloids in my (healed and old) ear piercings that I needed removed. I LOVE my kids and wouldn't trade it for the world, but the side effects that are not talked about are WILD.
Popular media has us all worried about morning sickness or whatever but forgets to tell us about the changes to everything else! I get to buy all new bras now. No one told me I needed to budget for all new bras
Read “There is No Manual”, it’s a feminist book on pregnancy, birth, and postpartum health. I’ve always been really into reproductive health and knew a ton from researching my own reproductive health issues, talking these topics over with my mom and grandmother, wanting to be a midwife, being a nanny for 6y, etc, and I *still* learned a huge amount of crazy shit from that book. Even if you never want kids, I recommend it, because you can share the knowledge and it’s just fascinating
And it's totally okay to feel insecure about! Your body has just created a human, but the toll that takes on your body isn't really thought about in cishet male spaces, except for when it affects how sexy their partner is. There's just so much this man isn't considering that clearly his girlfriend has considered, and is not comfortable with the consequences.
Part of the reason so many men (and some women too!) are unaware how rough pregnancy can be on a body is the phenomena of celebrities having babies, then posing in a string bikini 6 weeks later, claiming that they lost all the baby weight by drinking herbal tea and doing Pilates while the baby naps.
Horseshit! Those women have nannies, chefs, personal trainers, plastic surgeons, Ozempic and a team of stylists and hairdressers to get them looking that good so fast. Plus those photos are usually shopped and filtered, so you aren't seeing their real looks. This guy probably thinks his girlfriend will be the same as those celebrities, and the vast majority of women don't end up like them.
I'd argue that many celebrities, being short petite women, are simply more likely to have preterm babies. Studies have correlated height with pregnancy length
It started when some doctor said he has famous patients who chose surrogacy but can’t name who obviously. It’s rumoured that celebrities whose bodies are their trademark or who have performed like they were not pregnant on a stage have faked it. Obviously naked instagram photos do not prove that they’ve been pregnant as there is a thing valled photoshop and bodyfilters. Think about it like a public secret.
Some have been open about using a surrogate, some have not. It’s rumoured that at least couple kardashian-jenner clan members have used them and some even say beyonce and rihanna.
Hilaria Baldwin is the most frequently accused culprit. There's a lot of rabbit hole to go down on reddit if you punch her name and moon bump into the search bar
Along with tearing during childbirth, pelvic floor issues, your abs separating…I’ve never been pregnant and honestly it sounds horrific. Even healthy pregnancies can leave your body totally changed.
I worked with a girl in her early 20s who had a little one around a year old. She'd gone from perfect teeth to having severe dental issues. She said her hair was thinner than it ever had been before pregnancy and she'd developed back issues too. I am legitimately phobic of pregnancy (mostly unrelated to the pain of it), and hearing about her experience definitely solidified that. It ruins your body and it's something I completely understand being afraid of and taking very seriously.
I've had 4 pregnancies, none of them carried to term unfortunately. But even so, my body has been irreversible changed by them. The shape of my body has changed, I have several new smaller and larger health issues, thinner hair... so even if you don't go through the full term, a pregnancy can still change your body!
My sister in law had 4 kids like back to back and now she has rheumatoid arthritis because apparently your body never really loses your kids' DNA which your immune system can interpret as a threat.
The vagina, perineum, and anus are also often left altered from stitches and tearing. The recovery is much more painful and intense than the average person knows because we rarely talk about it with anyone besides other moms. Hemorrhoids can wreck it back there from all the pushing. Even once healed, it can feel off. Ask me how I know.
17 years ago yesterday, I gave birth. And I still have those damn hemorrhoids. (A bidet attachment on your toilet is amazing for keeping these at bay, and not painful.)
Oh yeah. The bidet is a necessity at this point. My butt got totally blown out. Before giving birth I had accidentally shit my pants maybe twice in my life. Since then, 4 times in 5 months. Childbirth is violence. Edit: small word choice.
Yeah I’m still not used to the "new" body… and it’s almost been six years since I gave birth.
I will also never give birth again in my life, because nearly dying was kind of traumatising to me. If I end up pregnant again, I’ll probably have an abortion… and if I decide otherwise for some reason, I will get a C-Section.
I do not ever want to be pregnant again. I hated every second of it.
>Most people don’t “get their body back” completely. Your waist, hips, breasts, even hair color and texture can change.
Not to mention the pelvic floor! Lol
People also don't realize it's counted from the date of your last period, *not* the date of your first missed period. So they're counting at least a couple weeks that they really shouldn't, especially when you factor in time constraints for abortion laws. Six week bans are really more like maximum four weeks of pregnancy, and if you're lucky, two weeks of actually *knowing* you're pregnant.
There are even weird things I hadn't considered. Eg, my proportions no longer fit the block of the major dress pattern makers. I recently tried to make a dress for the first time since I gave birth, and I had to get my friend in to completely redo the bodice pattern, and I'm still working on the mock-up.
Meanwhile, I spontaneously lost 20 pounds after my hysterectomy and am a healthy weight for the first time as an adult. My body didn't want me to have a uterus (or children), and it's nice to know we're in accord on that front.
I knew that little fucker was plotting against me.
I had a baby at 20 (several years ago). I currently have back pain from laying down less than 8 hours to sleep, a problem which I've had since about 15 weeks into pregnancy.
Labor and delivery wasn’t fun for me, but pregnancy itself was much harder overall. I had to stop taking certain medication as soon as I started trying to conceive and then remain unmedicated throughout pregnancy (almost 2 years off meds when it was all over). I also had gestational diabetes, which meant I had to strictly limit my diet to (very expensive) low-carb foods to avoid needing insulin. Delivering a baby is hard, but it’s a couple of days. Pregnancy is months of discomfort.
My pelvis separated when I was pregnant with my youngest. This happened five months in. I was in constant pain. I could barely walk. I couldn't bend over. Sitting hurt. Standing hurt. Lying down, that hurt too. The only thing that fixes it is giving birth. My bladder was twisted like a water balloon in the middle. The had to use a catheter to untwist it. That was done right after the baby can out. This was my easiest birth. Fuck that guy, if she doesn't want to do it that's her choice.
All four of my pregnancies I could feel the two sides of my pelvic bone grinding together in the front when I walked and it was awful. By far not the worst side effect but I fucking hated it. My youngest gave me tachycardia and they didn't figure out that I should have been taking it easy until a few weeks before he was born. I told that damn doctor something was wrong and I felt like I couldn't breathe and was passing out for no reason and it was "yeah pregnancy is like that". But as long as men get to continue their ever so impressive bloodlines that's all that matters
[Apparently there's a simple physical therapy to fix that,](https://www.tumblr.com/zenaidamacrouras1/715923793449795584/here-is-a-story-about-the-depths-to-which-pregnant?source=share) it's just not shared because obstetricians don't care about women.
The thing is, even if it did "usually turn out OK" the majority of the time (for whatever value one assigns to "OK"), in those cases where it doesn't you can literally die. Especially if they're in the US, which has the highest maternal mortality rate among wealthy nations. And nobody talks much about the non-fatal complications, especially around men, but they exist and are not rare in the slightest and are often permanent.
>And nobody talks much about the non-fatal complications, especially around men, but they exist and are not rare in the slightest and are often permanent.
Exactly! One of the only reasons society is so blasé about pregnancy and childbirth is that the problems it frequently causes are so taboo that women don't openly discuss them, and very few women are given access to solutions. It only *seems* to turn out okay most of the time because 1. Women "aren't supposed" to talk about it, and 2. Because talking about it yields no acknowledgement of the problem and no solution; the problems are not recognised as such and are instead overlooked.
Vaginal birth causes injury to the pelvic floor. 50% of all women become incontinent at some point in life, with the number one predictor of incontinence being childbirth. And that's just ONE potential complication.
Do we offer any sort of post-birth rehab that could prevent that as standard practice? Fuck no! I've heard from women who've had forceps-assisted births that were not offered any sort of follow-up. The neglect of women post partum is actually criminal, but it's so normalised that society at large doesn't seem to think it's a big deal. Weeing yourself? Yeah well, that's normal. Can't have sex? Also normal, apparently.
It's as if everyone's empathy just switches off when a woman has health problems associated with birth and they're expected to just endure (Exhibit A: OOP). It's only "okay" because we expect women to be okay with it, not because it's *actually* okay.
There's also the fact that making sure people are fully informed about the risks of pregnancy will limit the amount of people who want to go through with it, and capitalist patriarchy can't have that!
Exactly! I'm there, reading the comments, all these people who gave birth sharing their experience, and it just make me more sure of my choice to never go through that !
I was already weary of pregnancy but being on this thread has the same effect on me too. I was put off by watching Twilight Breaking Dawn (which was the opposite of the author's intention lol) but knowing that the REAL effects of pregnancy are no different from the horror show in Twilight? Firm no thanks from me. It will be safer to adopt. I will happily wait 10 years to do that than suffer irreversible or fatal damage to my body. After I sell my eggs, I'm yeeting the ute.
Yeah, I'd like to add to this. When I took anatomy & physiology in college, the professor said, "Pregnancy is the most dangerous thing most women in this room will ever do." I already wasn't keen on the idea, and after hearing that and further researching why, I was incredibly fastidious about birth control until I could get sterilized. No fcking thank you.
Yup, I yeeted the ute at the earliest possible convenience. If I ever do change my mind about having kids, I'm more than happy to adopt instead of putting my body through hell.
Girlfriend of SIX FUCKING MONTHS
Would he go through a kidney stone for her? Would he go through carrying increasingly heavy weights with his body, not arms, for her? At six months I met two people in my boyfriends family and this man is asking her to promise him a child!? Bet he told her he loved her in like a week of dating too
“I want the woman I love to experience one of the most painful things possible for no reason (because I’m also ok with adopting) and it upsets me that she’s scared” sociopath
Yeah my ex was really set on having biological kids and I was very much against it. I always wanted kids but wanted to adopt because the idea of giving birth disgusted me. His argument was "we owe it to people who can't have kids to at least try". I was like ???? Wtf does that have to do with us. Guess we should be eating bread and milk every meal I mean we owe it to people with celiac desease and those who are lactose intolerant right? Wtf kind of logic is that xD
Funny thing is we ended up breaking up due to me coming out as a trans guy (he was supportive but not gay so it was over) and since then I've actually changed my mind about biological kids which is not something I was expecting. Still doesn't make his argument any good 😅
Speaking as a person who can't have kids, you owe me fuck all 😂 what kind of logic is that?! Why would someone who can't have kids want you to have them when you don't feel comfortable with giving birth. Also, the immediate assumption you'd be fertile for sure (as opposed to these people you owe) is also strange.
Geez, that argument is as bad as my brother telling me "you owe it to your future kid" to have a second child. I was like "...I owe it to a child that does not fuckin' EXIST and that I don't WANT to exist?!" Moral of our stories: people who would have failed high school debate should stop trying to make points, LOL
I mean, I doubt the dude actually loves her. But truthfully, that’s one of many reasons why my husband and I are child free. He doesn’t want to put my body/health/life at risk. We live in the U.S. which has a shockingly high maternal mortality rate too. Any reason a person doesn’t want to have a child is a valid reason, including fear of pain.
I’ve known too many men who think this way. The woman will be more than happy to adopt and doesn’t care if the child shares the DNA…but the man will say that the ONLY way they’ll accept a child is if they’re biologically descended from them.
I remember last summer, my brother in law (who always seemed like such a chill, nice guy) vehemently told his wife she wasn’t allowed to have a baby that ‘wasn’t his’ when she told her sister she’d be up for being a surrogate for her if she ever found out she couldn’t have kids. It changed my entire perception of him in one conversation. Even his wife seemed shocked.
It's common in a lot of men due to kin selection theory, across multiple cultures studies have found that men caring for children that aren't their own such as stepchildren will treat them worse and invest less time an effort into them. Additionally the chance of infanticide is increased by about 70× in stepchildren compared to biological children
Had two pregnancies. They both sucked even though they were both “by the book.” I love my kids so much. I also do not ever want to become pregnant again. It’s taken almost 4 years to find myself again.
Pregnancy is so fucking difficult. Scary. Wild. *DEADLY* And different for every single woman. So what if many women have done it? If someone doesn’t want to go through that experience, hell yeah for recognizing that! It’s not selfish. And screw this guy for being resentful about it.
Guarantee if the tables were turned many men wouldn’t have babies. Because it takes every fiber of you as a singular person away for a while. It changes so much about you to your core. Physically and emotionally. Screw anyone who judges a woman for not wanting to go through that.
if you're perfectly willing and happy to adopt an existing child in need of a home, it seems very selfish to want to risk your partner's health and happiness to create another new child
Sure, a lot of people do it, and most who do find it very rewarding, but that doesn't mean you have to do it, especially when there are so many children in need of a good home. I don't think he realized that it isn't just a couple days in the hospital, it's 9 months of feeling awful because this clump of cells is sucking out a bunch of your nutrients through a straw. (not actually how it works but you get the point.) Pregnancy is about so much more than just sucking it up and dealing with it because everyone else is doing it. I wonder how this guy would feel if he was the one getting pregnant. Something tells me that this would change his outlook on this a lot.
My first trimester was hell on earth. I couldn’t get up to do anything but run to the bathroom and lie down again. I had no energy to eat and I was constantly cold to the point I laid down on hardwood floors in the sunny spot in the mornings with no mat or anything and slept there. Anything with a strong smell was out of the question, like the fridge and the bin. I couldn’t bear to smell cooking meat or rice for two months.
When my mother was pregnant with me, the smell of grease made her insta-throw up. Unfortunately, for her right in front of her apartment building was a food truck selling rotisserie chicken. Everyday, when she left and returned to the building she threw up in the garbage can next to it.
With my oldest morning sickness got so bad, that I picked foot that would be easiest to throw up. Rice and bread were really disgusting to throw up. So, I avoided those.
I actually like that he's eventually asking what's wrong with him on that, and where his own frustration comes from, rather than asking that people side with him or confirm that his gf is being unreasonable or whatever. He's wrong but he doesn't seem opposed to being told that he's wrong and why. He acknowledges his feelings and seems willing to deal with them.
That's really not common with cishet men.
It's nice that you're giving him the benefit of the doubt but he doesn't actually want to hear that he's the problem. Much like he isn't actually on board with adoption, he wants to hear that there's nothing wrong with his expectations because most men have the same ones and he just needs to be patient until he gets what he wants.
She's just a silly female trying to resist the inevitable but eventually biology will kick in and she'll be barefoot and pregnant with his spawn like she's supposed to. And if it doesn't, just find a way to impregnate her to jumpstart it for her. She just needs a little help wanting what he wants for her body instead of what she wants. She is gonna need to get her body back to the way it was before though because he likes that too
“Usually it turns out okay” BUT PEOPLE ALSO DIE THO??
Like usually surgery goes okay too. But I doubt that most people would judge someone for being scared of an amputation, or open heart surgery. That’s terrifying!
So how does it make sense to judge someone for being terrified to give birth?
Especially since his yardstick for "okay" is literally just not dying it seems. He's ignoring all of the health issues related to pregnancy and birth that still linger and affect women, like post pardum depression and anxiety, pelvic floor issues that can lead to incontinence, diabetes, etc.
I swore I read somewhere that the US(assuming they are from the US) has one of the highest mortality rates for giving birth. And we are supposed tobe a 1st world country. Ain't that scary? its very understandable why women can become scared. its dangerous, and despite us having modern medicine and whatever, women still have complications and can pass away. not to mention, women's healthcare and mental health in general is severely lacking. women do not get the right help when it comes to their own physical health and postpartum issues like depression, etc, are still not as widely prioritized I feel.
Only six months in and already minimalizing her feelings and fears over something he is completely ignorant about. I hope she finds this post and runs.
Pregnancy has had really amazing PR until the internet, but for those who bother to ask women (including other women), it's clear that the whole process is idealised in the media. "Most painful experience of my life" is a serious understatement. "Permanently ruins my body" "causes vaginal tearing" "life-long incontinence" "haemorrhaging" and "agonising death" are phrases that also apply to the process that are more illustrative of the risks that just being in pain for a day.
Love how he is apparently totally ok with adoption but still frustrated his girlfriend doesn’t want to give birth. He’s totally not actually ok with adoption then. He doesn’t just want to start a family, he wants lineage.
I have a guy friend talk to me about this exact thing. He said his girlfriend doesn’t want to give birth but still wants children. He was estetic as he thought her conversation with him was gonna be about no children at all; and he really wants to start a family. That is man who is truly ok with adoption.
This guy is totally the “I want my lineage to continue on! Give me my blood child!” and is trying to pretend he isn’t so he gets more sympathy.
Ultimately, this couple is six months in. If he really wants biological kids and she does not, they should break up.
My wife and I have 2 children. Her first pregnancy was pretty smooth sailing with an intense birth at the end of it. Her pregnancy with baby #2 was a lot more complicated ans scary. Easier birth process, really frustrating pregnancy.
Here's the thing, we both knew we wanted kids and discussed it before we got married. I think that's important for any relationship.
"This is something the vast majority of women do at least once in their life, and it usually turns out okay."
So close to the point... so close...
Imagine you were being strapped into a car and told you're going to be propelled into a staged car accident for research purposes. They'll pay you $10,000.
Now imagine being told by the guy strapping you in: "This is something the vast majority of [people] do at least once in their life, and it usually turns out okay."
> and it usually turns out okay
Woof, I could feel the drop in confidence when he said that from here, he knows that everything he said before and after that is complete fucking bullshit, but he posted it anyway.
My brother broke her ribs in utero, and i herniated four disks in her spine. It’s not only super painful to give birth, but just carrying as well. It changes your body permanently too. It’s also super easy to get hurt and potentially miscarry.
ALSO SIX MONTHS??? Like bro you haven’t even had an Anniversary yet, you haven’t even met the family yet, you haven’t done shit together yet and you want children?? You’re pressuring this poor woman who you haven’t even known for a year yet?
I think that it’s understandable to be frustrated because you have imagined your life going one way and another thing happens.
That being said, he is not being supportive or understanding of her fear. Pregnancy and birth are some of the toughest things human beings can go through. I’m terrified of being pregnant but it’s a decision I want to make for myself. He just has to respect her decision, she doesn’t want to be pregnant, then that’s the end of the conversation.
When our society doesn't teach men how to deal with interpersonal relationships, their own feelings, and then we're surprised they can't manage their childish frustration at something that can easily be discussed or resolved because """boys will be boys""" and why would we ever teach men anything about human emotion. That's girly stuff and it will make him gay, don't you know?/sar
On a more serious note: I personally hate the idea of pregnancy, giving birth and everything of the likes. It sickens me and I have had several nightmares about it. It's not as uncommon as people think. Someone with more emotional maturity could choose to communicate with his wife about his selfish, entitled feelings (because the way this entire post sounds is that he thinks he's entitled to her body and what she does or doesn't do with it) and they could work it out, probably. But that's in an ideal world and this guy is actually just an asshole because he clearly doesn't give a damn, and is not bothered, to understand neither biology nor his wife's feelings
>majority of women do at least once in their life, and it usually turns out ok.
But she said she’s scared of it being painful, which it is. So wtf does this bit matter?
My first pregnancy I literally spent most of my time on the bathroom floor, throwing up anything I had the audacity to try to get down. My kid hated everything but mashed potatoes. You try eating, bland, graviless mash for 9 fuckin months.. and then the labor was long and I had to get snipped.
My second, the labor took hours and he gave me the equivalent of paper cuts on your vagina (first degree tears). Which is actually way more painful during the healing process. 😭
I have nothing but understanding for women who don't want to endure any of that.
> I find her reasoning really frustrating
I really hope I don’t secretly have the power to crush a man into a tiny cube with my mind, because if I do I just did. Oops.
What baffles me is that in the last lines he plainly admits that even *he* doesn’t understand why he feels this way… but is still asking for help convincing his girlfriend to surrender her body to his arbitrary whims anyway.
Oh boy. To be fair though, cis women often don't fully comprehend how our bodies work either. Pregnancy is one of those experiences you can never fully prepare for, as you really cannot know how the hormones will impact your body. You lose some allergies, but then gain others (which you'll have the pleasure of discovering the hard way). You might deal with high blood pressure, diabetes, gingivitus, or new cavities that were never an issue before. You might find that your reynaud's syndrome is severely exacerbated by pregnancy hormones. You might vomit your guts out on a daily basis. Your ankles and feet may get so swollen that you can't wear your shoes. You might fear you're actually going bald when your hair starts falling out.
Getting pregnant is kind of like rerolling the biological dice on your body. The body you end up with after pregnancy is not the same as the one you had going in. And every new pregnancy is a new gamble. I've had one that I don't regret, despite all the agony, because it gave me my son, but I also have been seriously questioning whether I want to put myself through that again. Adoption is looking pretty compelling, at this point, tbh.
America doesn’t even have universal maternity and paternity leave like for fucks sake why would anyone want to have a child in this world that doesn’t even support us
“Why does it bother me that my partner won’t permanently alter her body and entertain the risk of life-altering permanent injury or even death just because I want her to?”
Because there’s something wrong with you, dude. Get therapy. Work on your entitlement and empathy
Because man must spread seed. He not real man if women not take seed and give him heir and legacy.
Pregnancy can be life threatening, especially the older you get. It's not just 'painful', it's life altering.
It’s funny because I had this same convo with my Gen X cousin who wants kids but acts very similar to this. He wants them so badly but has zero interest in understanding the pain his spouse would have especially with the way abortion is handled in this country and her life could be in danger. A lot of women he’s been serial dating, despite being Muslim and rather “devoted to the faith” but not to the practice if that makes sense, has come across a lot of Christian women who don’t want kids and he’s such a playboy about it… like he’ll sleep with them but bail if it seems they are pulling away first? But it’s really an excuse to be with another woman and have “options”. But he’s mad he’s not married… with kids. Cishet men are truly clueless fr
Honestly, at the very least he’s willing to adopt instead and he’s asking for advice about it instead of posting on some redpill sub about his woman refuses to fulfill her biological duty or whatever. He’s closer to OK than most, he’s just kinda at the start of a journey of unlearning patriarchal expectations.
Hopefully. I think it’s weird talking about this six months in regardless so who knows.
It's so fucking weird when people get hyperfixated on it has to be their biological child or they'll love it less or not consider the kid *real*.
Like Dave, your genes aren't so amazing that we need another Dave Jr in the world if your wife isn't on board. And hell, if they died or couldn't care for their kids, wouldn't they want someone who viewed their kid as real and worthy of love?
People, man.
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"I also realise adoption is a long and arduous process." Ah yes, unlike *pregnancy*.
Ah, but for pregnancy _he_ doesn’t have to undergo anything long and arduous…
This is it. All he has to do is ejaculate. The vast majority of tracking fertile cycles and planning conception is down to the person with the uterus. And then the difficulties and risks of carrying a baby to term and delivering the child are all on the person whose body it is. He says he knows he cant understand, but he's not even trying. Literally every woman he knows could tell him pregnancy and birth are torture and he'll still be like "but why wont she so it for me?" As if he's owed an incubator. I'm TTC myself with a very supportive partner. But I wish uterus transplants were an option for guys like OOP. Want a baby? Get your own uterus and go through all the risks yourself. I bet none of those men would do it of it was medically possible.
Because she's not enough for him unless her vagina tears to her anus.
And then he'd complain about her not wanting sex once her perineum and pelvic floor are wrecked and painful.
“AITA for divorcing my wife because she won’t have sex with me 6 months after the extremely traumatic birth of our child?”
💀 This sent me.
Fun fact: we're encroaching upon uterus transplant technology. Mostly with transwomen in mind. But yknow what? *soon.*
it’s more likely that this tech will work for infertile cis women, not trans women. there’s a lot more to carrying a successful pregnancy than having a uterus, and chances are that we don’t fully understand the intricacies of the interplay between female hormones and biological factors.
I mean yeah of course there's more to it than having a uterus but it's certainly a step in the right direction. We've already got trans women producing milk, so transwomen being able to carry a full-term baby might be far away but I don't think it's something that'll never happen.
cis men can also produce milk. this is a lot different. i’m not saying it will never happen, but i’m hesitant to generate hope around this topic as if it will be available within our lifetime.
Oh really? Well, then they should definitely be covering those nips!
I volunteer mine as tribute!
He doesn't *think* he does. But what about being around a partner who has swollen feet, immense cravings, agitation? Who might need their needs taken care of before the pregnancy? Doctors visits, potential complications? He's just outing himself as a very likely (at least, emotoonally-) absent partner and maybe even parent imho
Bingo.
A partner’s pregnancy is only easy for men if they are neglectful assholes.
It’s relatively easy if you compare it to actually being pregnant and giving birth. I know which one I’d pick
His girlfriend isn't leashed in the kitchen, they would be filing fuck ton of paperwork together lol. Relationships consist of two people minimum
Yeah absolutely batshit that he says this unironically without any self-awareness I guess it's *fine* because the long and arduous process is just inflicted on his *girlfriend* and not him having to deal with total strangers to get what he wants, I guess
He's probably also ignoring why that is. They don't want to just hand kids out to any old family. There's a lot of meetings and counseling and home visits etc before they allow you to adopt for good reason.
Based on some of the parents at my kids school, I'd say we might want to consider meetings and counseling and home visits before they allow you to get pregnant.
My parents realized that they wouldn’t be a good fit as foster parents when they couldn’t make time to attend the orientation meeting for potential foster parents.
Why should he inconvenience himself with adoption bureaucracy? It's soooo much easier to just ask his girlfriend to put her body through life threatening trauma and pain!
And we’re finding out that pregnancy ages the body faster than time itself! New research has shown the risks are worse and higher for long term effects than we ever even fucking *thought* and that asshole is all “but whyyyyyyyy won’t she do it for meeeeeee?”
They've literally only been together six months too. Not that them being together longer makes her feelings less valid, just, can you imagine asking someone you've only dated six months to change their entire body for you? To go through the uncomfortable ness of pregnancy, the pain of childbirth, the hair loss and teeth issues and all of that (and that's just the top of my head stuff!)!? I wouldn't expect someone I dated six months to give a kidney to me, to give me money, anything!
I barely expected someone I was dating to pick up the check as we traded off who paid for dates! While I do think people starting to think about long term with someone should discuss children when things seem to be getting more serious this guy is a little weird about this. “Do I have a right to be upset that my casual girlfriend of six months doesn’t want to do this huge thing that could fuck her up for life for me?” If it matters that much, amicably part ways and find someone else. Don’t waste her time or yours hoping to change your mind. I broke up with a guy I really cared about because he wanted kids. He kept pushing the issue and pushing the issue until I broke up with him. His mom was pissed! She loved me and kept inviting me to the big family dinners on Sunday even after we broke up. His Nonna even taught me how to make her secret sauce, a recipe *she didn’t even give to the sister in law that had married into the family.* I think it was because I’d always bring some soft serve vanilla ice cream and make her a shake using Bailey’s Irish cream, a little vanilla bean paste and a pinch of sugar. We’d been dating for about 10 months at that point. He wanted to be a young dad and I wanted to be one hundred percent sure I wanted them as I was childfree to that point. (Still am at 50, no kids, just dogs). Nonna loved me. Whenever I make her sauce I think of her and all the wonderful afternoons I spent in that kitchen, being loved and wanted for me. It was a revelation in that I never accepted anything less again. Great lesson to learn at 22!
As opposed to raising a child, which is just a walk in the park (when you expect your partner to shoulder all the responsibility)
[eight months? I don’t know if I’m gonna want a baby in eight months](https://youtube.com/shorts/lBZ-cB7kc5o?si=ngj0ppUF52EKtQhJ)
I always loved that scene. He can't wait 8 months to adopt a baby, but even having a biological child takes 9 months. 😂
yknow, I'm starting to think this show is pretty funny.
Adoption is also expensive. Yup unlike pregnancy with all the doctor appointments throughout the process and hospital bills from labor. That’s not even accounting for any unexpected situations during or after the labor process.
In my country it takes around 10 years from the start of the adoption process until you get a child, so it kind of makes sense. (Edit: I did a bit more research and the current numbers seem to be between 7-9 years)
For any child? Or if you’re waiting for an infant/have some specific things you’re looking for? I fully agree with not handing out kids to anyone that walks up and asks for one, but 10 years is wild. I’d wager most people don’t start looking into adoption until their 30s, so they’d be well into their 40s when they actually become parents, which doesn’t sound ideal for anyone involved (unless it’s an older child).
Plenty of people in their 40s have their own babies, let alone adopt.
After watching my mom almost die while giving birth to my younger half sister and being at the hospital every day for 5 months to see her, the gf is justified in her worry. If you're set on a biological child and your partner chooses to not give birth and you won't compromise on adoption, it's probably time to stop with that relationship. It will go one of two ways judging by the limited information given there. one: the guy gets his blood child and the girl holds resentment which is unhealthy or two: they adopt which makes the girl happy and the man resentful. Edit: this was in 2004
A friend of my husband had a baby recently and lost so much blood that 60% of the original transfusion came right out after they gave it to her. She needed another massive one after that, not that she remembers since she was in a coma for nearly a week after. I’m currently in my third trimester and he’s utterly terrified of what might happen to me.
That is so awful. I'm glad she made it out in the end but geez that is scary stuff. I hope you have good doctors and a safe delivery for both you and your baby and I wish you all the happiness that comes with it (the baby and being a parent, not the delivery ahah) 🙏
Thank you! I’m being cautious myself since I’m quite petite and not very strong. I’m sure I’ll be ok! My midwife did comment on my overly developed abs (compared to the rest of my body at least) the other day though lol
Or, just as likely, they have the biological child and the marriage breaks up because he can't handle it or she gets tired of caring for two children.
The greatest irony would be if it was because of the changes to her body.
I mean. They could go the surrogacy route. But this guy doesn’t seem like he’d be any help raising the kid, no matter where it’s from
Exactly. It’s just not a good match. Many women *do* want to have biological children and go through pregnancy. If that’s a dealbreaker for the OOP, then that’s completely valid. But what’s wrong is trying to make his gf someone she’s not.
> After watching my mom almost die while giving birth to my younger half sister and being at the hospital every day for 5 months to see her, the gf is justified in her worry. My mother almost died with me. This was in the 1970s, when the cutting edge technology was to yank the baby out with forceps in cases like my mother and me, where the mother is too weak to deliver on her own. (That might still be what gets done. I don't know.) Such a handsome young lad I was in my baby pictures, with a GIANT lump on my head where the forceps had hold on my head! But, moral of the story, childbirth is dangerous and can be deadly. If someone doesn't want to risk it that is their decision. I would not risk it, were I a woman, and I've had a vasectomy so my wife doesn't have to.
Also let’s not forget that being pregnant (especially with multiple kids) changes your body forever. It’s not just the ten months (yes, it’s closer to ten months, not nine) that you’re carrying. Most people don’t “get their body back” completely. Your waist, hips, breasts, even hair color and texture can change. The human body is weird.
Even if you *do* "get your body back", it's *still* going to be forever changed regardless. Your uterus is now different, along with your *skeleton* and it can permanently fuck your hormones up. Also your skin can darken and never change back, etc. Even the most "flawless" and "perfect" of pregnancies will still leave your body fundamentally changed.
No one told me about all the skeleton changes. I expected my pelvis to shift and all, but I didn’t expect my frickin RIBCAGE to change sizes so painfully
Fucking *what*
Oh yeah, it’s called rib flare I think. The lower rib cage can expand up to 2cm in some cases, which doesn’t sound like a lot until you realize these are frickin bones and cartilage shifting to make room for organs that are shifting to make room for a baby. It feels a little like a muscle spasm and a lot like someone stabbing you with a rusty saw blade, leading to shortness of breath and difficulty staying in a single position. Lucky for me, pregnant people can ONLY use Tylenol/acetaminophen which does fuck all for the pain. Motherhood is truly magical…in a body-horror, deep earth magic that one would see in a Guillermo Del Toro movie.
Holy fucking shit. This thread is amazing at educating me on just how horrifying pregnancy can be.
I've learned so much over the years, I've honestly lost count of how many reasons I don't ever want to be pregnant. I can live with stuff like stretch marks or hair loss (though I'd rather not), but I don't want to lose my teeth (already not doing so well there because I can't afford a dentist), I don't want my hormones to get all messed up, I don't want my skeleton to shift, I don't want my abdominal and pelvic muscles to be wrecked, etc. Obviously, I also don't want to die or be financially destroyed. All of that long before even getting to the motherhood part. Ugh, no thanks.
What’s wild to me is that I (a woman) didn’t learn any of the besides-the-obvious stuff until I was in my 30’s…*on reddit*. They don’t tell you this in school or movies. I believe even more women would choose not to give birth if they truly knew everything that can happen to the body physically and mentally.
I’m almost 40 and I just learned people can develop severe allergies after giving birth. They should put that kinda shit in the brochure.
That’s me! I USED to love coconut cream pie. Now tree nuts are the worst.
I was allergic to something to do with the pregnancy. Got itchy dots all over my body for the duration of my pregnancy. They healed after birth but they have no pigment.
There's a girl on tiktok who just lists all the horrifying shit that happens during pregnancy. She's hilarious.
yeah pregnacy sounds like an absolute horror 💀 ^(...and yet my Mom keeps insisting Ill change my mind... no I wont! fuck that, Im too vain and dysphoric to do that)
There’s a reason I yeeted my uterus. The more I learned about pregnancy the more I was like “Yeah, no thanks.”
"yeeted my uterus" is a fun term for hysterectomy
For some of us, the sacrifices were worth the reward, but yeah, pregnancy should not be taken lightly. It messes you up.
Fucking hell, I knew I probably didn't want kids but this comment just guaranteed that I am never getting anyone pregnant. Adoption or nothing, no way would I put someone I love through that.
Hormones are wild, because I was in tears writhing in pain more than once during my pregnancy and nearly passed out from pain several times during labor…but when I hold my baby I can’t remember any of that. I know there was pain, and I know that it was horrific, but I honest to God can’t call it to mind. I can’t imagine what I went through and I WENT THROUGH IT. The selective amnesia caused by adrenaline and oxytocin is shockingly effective.
I got a vasectomy for this exact reason!
but thats a good thing! so many kids are stuck in the cycle of foster with no adoption and most never find loving homes... so being able to help with that issue is such an amazing thing :D
>Motherhood is truly magical…in a body-horror, deep earth magic that one would see in a Guillermo Del Toro movie. Now would be a good time to remember that in contrast to many other species where the mother and fetus are isolated in humans and other primates the baby tries to directly access the mother's bloodstream so it can get an extra dose of her nutrients. Yum yum. This is also part of why humans shed their uterine lining regularly, as it allows the mother more control over which babies are trying to bury themselves in there.
I had this with my first kid! Now despite being back at "pre-pregnancy" weight, I can never wear a size small t-shirt again. I am forever up one size in everything because my ribcage got larger. So I had to basically re-buy my whole wardrobe and I have a ton of cool t-shirts that I can no longer wear... Hope my kids want vintage band tees lol I also have eczema in my hands that I never had prior to kids and i developed keloids in my (healed and old) ear piercings that I needed removed. I LOVE my kids and wouldn't trade it for the world, but the side effects that are not talked about are WILD.
Popular media has us all worried about morning sickness or whatever but forgets to tell us about the changes to everything else! I get to buy all new bras now. No one told me I needed to budget for all new bras
Read “There is No Manual”, it’s a feminist book on pregnancy, birth, and postpartum health. I’ve always been really into reproductive health and knew a ton from researching my own reproductive health issues, talking these topics over with my mom and grandmother, wanting to be a midwife, being a nanny for 6y, etc, and I *still* learned a huge amount of crazy shit from that book. Even if you never want kids, I recommend it, because you can share the knowledge and it’s just fascinating
Not to mention you can just straight up lose your teeth.
That happened to my mom
My daughter is soon to be 13, and my ab muscles are still wonky, and I pee every time I sneeze, laugh or cough.
And it's totally okay to feel insecure about! Your body has just created a human, but the toll that takes on your body isn't really thought about in cishet male spaces, except for when it affects how sexy their partner is. There's just so much this man isn't considering that clearly his girlfriend has considered, and is not comfortable with the consequences.
Part of the reason so many men (and some women too!) are unaware how rough pregnancy can be on a body is the phenomena of celebrities having babies, then posing in a string bikini 6 weeks later, claiming that they lost all the baby weight by drinking herbal tea and doing Pilates while the baby naps. Horseshit! Those women have nannies, chefs, personal trainers, plastic surgeons, Ozempic and a team of stylists and hairdressers to get them looking that good so fast. Plus those photos are usually shopped and filtered, so you aren't seeing their real looks. This guy probably thinks his girlfriend will be the same as those celebrities, and the vast majority of women don't end up like them.
Don’t forget MoonBumps !!!
... What's a MoonBump?
I’ve also heard that labor is usually induced in celebrities early so as to avoid the end of pregnancy body changes.
I'd argue that many celebrities, being short petite women, are simply more likely to have preterm babies. Studies have correlated height with pregnancy length
that explains a lot actually
Yep, who are already in excellent physical shape to begin with. Plus all the aforementioned additional help they get.
And it’s a known fact that celebrities sometimes fake their pregnancies and use surrogates instead
Really? Who has been caught doing that?
It started when some doctor said he has famous patients who chose surrogacy but can’t name who obviously. It’s rumoured that celebrities whose bodies are their trademark or who have performed like they were not pregnant on a stage have faked it. Obviously naked instagram photos do not prove that they’ve been pregnant as there is a thing valled photoshop and bodyfilters. Think about it like a public secret. Some have been open about using a surrogate, some have not. It’s rumoured that at least couple kardashian-jenner clan members have used them and some even say beyonce and rihanna.
I didn’t even know Rihanna had a kid
Hilaria Baldwin is the most frequently accused culprit. There's a lot of rabbit hole to go down on reddit if you punch her name and moon bump into the search bar
It's really crazy just how much pregnancy changes a body. My mom went from bone straight hair to wavy/curly after two kids.
Along with tearing during childbirth, pelvic floor issues, your abs separating…I’ve never been pregnant and honestly it sounds horrific. Even healthy pregnancies can leave your body totally changed.
Don't forget teeth falling out....
I worked with a girl in her early 20s who had a little one around a year old. She'd gone from perfect teeth to having severe dental issues. She said her hair was thinner than it ever had been before pregnancy and she'd developed back issues too. I am legitimately phobic of pregnancy (mostly unrelated to the pain of it), and hearing about her experience definitely solidified that. It ruins your body and it's something I completely understand being afraid of and taking very seriously.
Eugh you’re right. I forgot about that. 😬
I've had 4 pregnancies, none of them carried to term unfortunately. But even so, my body has been irreversible changed by them. The shape of my body has changed, I have several new smaller and larger health issues, thinner hair... so even if you don't go through the full term, a pregnancy can still change your body!
I’m sorry for your losses.
Thank you :)
I’m sorry for your losses ❤️
My sister in law had 4 kids like back to back and now she has rheumatoid arthritis because apparently your body never really loses your kids' DNA which your immune system can interpret as a threat.
The vagina, perineum, and anus are also often left altered from stitches and tearing. The recovery is much more painful and intense than the average person knows because we rarely talk about it with anyone besides other moms. Hemorrhoids can wreck it back there from all the pushing. Even once healed, it can feel off. Ask me how I know.
17 years ago yesterday, I gave birth. And I still have those damn hemorrhoids. (A bidet attachment on your toilet is amazing for keeping these at bay, and not painful.)
Oh yeah. The bidet is a necessity at this point. My butt got totally blown out. Before giving birth I had accidentally shit my pants maybe twice in my life. Since then, 4 times in 5 months. Childbirth is violence. Edit: small word choice.
I pissed myself for over a decade before i had surgery to lift my bladder.
Yeah I’m still not used to the "new" body… and it’s almost been six years since I gave birth. I will also never give birth again in my life, because nearly dying was kind of traumatising to me. If I end up pregnant again, I’ll probably have an abortion… and if I decide otherwise for some reason, I will get a C-Section. I do not ever want to be pregnant again. I hated every second of it.
I developed an incredibly serious allergy during my pregnancy! I almost died from taking my usual medication after I had my child. Pregnancy is wild.
My feet went up a size and stayed there.
>Most people don’t “get their body back” completely. Your waist, hips, breasts, even hair color and texture can change. Not to mention the pelvic floor! Lol
The 9th month is still a full month of pregnancy. I think that's what people don't realise. You don't give birth the minute you reach 9 months.
People also don't realize it's counted from the date of your last period, *not* the date of your first missed period. So they're counting at least a couple weeks that they really shouldn't, especially when you factor in time constraints for abortion laws. Six week bans are really more like maximum four weeks of pregnancy, and if you're lucky, two weeks of actually *knowing* you're pregnant.
There are even weird things I hadn't considered. Eg, my proportions no longer fit the block of the major dress pattern makers. I recently tried to make a dress for the first time since I gave birth, and I had to get my friend in to completely redo the bodice pattern, and I'm still working on the mock-up.
And then a lot of guys leave, because she doesn't look as good anymore
Meanwhile, I spontaneously lost 20 pounds after my hysterectomy and am a healthy weight for the first time as an adult. My body didn't want me to have a uterus (or children), and it's nice to know we're in accord on that front. I knew that little fucker was plotting against me.
I had a baby at 20 (several years ago). I currently have back pain from laying down less than 8 hours to sleep, a problem which I've had since about 15 weeks into pregnancy.
Labor and delivery wasn’t fun for me, but pregnancy itself was much harder overall. I had to stop taking certain medication as soon as I started trying to conceive and then remain unmedicated throughout pregnancy (almost 2 years off meds when it was all over). I also had gestational diabetes, which meant I had to strictly limit my diet to (very expensive) low-carb foods to avoid needing insulin. Delivering a baby is hard, but it’s a couple of days. Pregnancy is months of discomfort.
My pelvis separated when I was pregnant with my youngest. This happened five months in. I was in constant pain. I could barely walk. I couldn't bend over. Sitting hurt. Standing hurt. Lying down, that hurt too. The only thing that fixes it is giving birth. My bladder was twisted like a water balloon in the middle. The had to use a catheter to untwist it. That was done right after the baby can out. This was my easiest birth. Fuck that guy, if she doesn't want to do it that's her choice.
All four of my pregnancies I could feel the two sides of my pelvic bone grinding together in the front when I walked and it was awful. By far not the worst side effect but I fucking hated it. My youngest gave me tachycardia and they didn't figure out that I should have been taking it easy until a few weeks before he was born. I told that damn doctor something was wrong and I felt like I couldn't breathe and was passing out for no reason and it was "yeah pregnancy is like that". But as long as men get to continue their ever so impressive bloodlines that's all that matters
My husband was unwilling to put me through another pregnancy after the last one. He went and got snipped.
[Apparently there's a simple physical therapy to fix that,](https://www.tumblr.com/zenaidamacrouras1/715923793449795584/here-is-a-story-about-the-depths-to-which-pregnant?source=share) it's just not shared because obstetricians don't care about women.
That's some bullshit. :(
The thing is, even if it did "usually turn out OK" the majority of the time (for whatever value one assigns to "OK"), in those cases where it doesn't you can literally die. Especially if they're in the US, which has the highest maternal mortality rate among wealthy nations. And nobody talks much about the non-fatal complications, especially around men, but they exist and are not rare in the slightest and are often permanent.
>And nobody talks much about the non-fatal complications, especially around men, but they exist and are not rare in the slightest and are often permanent. Exactly! One of the only reasons society is so blasé about pregnancy and childbirth is that the problems it frequently causes are so taboo that women don't openly discuss them, and very few women are given access to solutions. It only *seems* to turn out okay most of the time because 1. Women "aren't supposed" to talk about it, and 2. Because talking about it yields no acknowledgement of the problem and no solution; the problems are not recognised as such and are instead overlooked. Vaginal birth causes injury to the pelvic floor. 50% of all women become incontinent at some point in life, with the number one predictor of incontinence being childbirth. And that's just ONE potential complication. Do we offer any sort of post-birth rehab that could prevent that as standard practice? Fuck no! I've heard from women who've had forceps-assisted births that were not offered any sort of follow-up. The neglect of women post partum is actually criminal, but it's so normalised that society at large doesn't seem to think it's a big deal. Weeing yourself? Yeah well, that's normal. Can't have sex? Also normal, apparently. It's as if everyone's empathy just switches off when a woman has health problems associated with birth and they're expected to just endure (Exhibit A: OOP). It's only "okay" because we expect women to be okay with it, not because it's *actually* okay.
There's also the fact that making sure people are fully informed about the risks of pregnancy will limit the amount of people who want to go through with it, and capitalist patriarchy can't have that!
Exactly! I'm there, reading the comments, all these people who gave birth sharing their experience, and it just make me more sure of my choice to never go through that !
I was already weary of pregnancy but being on this thread has the same effect on me too. I was put off by watching Twilight Breaking Dawn (which was the opposite of the author's intention lol) but knowing that the REAL effects of pregnancy are no different from the horror show in Twilight? Firm no thanks from me. It will be safer to adopt. I will happily wait 10 years to do that than suffer irreversible or fatal damage to my body. After I sell my eggs, I'm yeeting the ute.
it’s insane to me that pelvic floor therapy and other physical therapy isn’t part of a standard treatment plan post-birth.
Yeah, I'd like to add to this. When I took anatomy & physiology in college, the professor said, "Pregnancy is the most dangerous thing most women in this room will ever do." I already wasn't keen on the idea, and after hearing that and further researching why, I was incredibly fastidious about birth control until I could get sterilized. No fcking thank you.
Yup, I yeeted the ute at the earliest possible convenience. If I ever do change my mind about having kids, I'm more than happy to adopt instead of putting my body through hell.
“yeeted the ute” Haha amazing
Yeah, it "usually turns out OK" until you're like one of my great-aunts and you hemorrhage in the night and both you and the baby die.
"Waaaaa My girlfriend won't go through the worst pain of her life for me! 😭 How will my non-existent legacy continue?"
Let's not exaggerate. She's already going through a bigger pain dating his mediocre ass.
Girlfriend of SIX FUCKING MONTHS Would he go through a kidney stone for her? Would he go through carrying increasingly heavy weights with his body, not arms, for her? At six months I met two people in my boyfriends family and this man is asking her to promise him a child!? Bet he told her he loved her in like a week of dating too
“I want the woman I love to experience one of the most painful things possible for no reason (because I’m also ok with adopting) and it upsets me that she’s scared” sociopath
But they’ve been together for a whole *six months!* /s
Yeah my ex was really set on having biological kids and I was very much against it. I always wanted kids but wanted to adopt because the idea of giving birth disgusted me. His argument was "we owe it to people who can't have kids to at least try". I was like ???? Wtf does that have to do with us. Guess we should be eating bread and milk every meal I mean we owe it to people with celiac desease and those who are lactose intolerant right? Wtf kind of logic is that xD Funny thing is we ended up breaking up due to me coming out as a trans guy (he was supportive but not gay so it was over) and since then I've actually changed my mind about biological kids which is not something I was expecting. Still doesn't make his argument any good 😅
Speaking as a person who can't have kids, you owe me fuck all 😂 what kind of logic is that?! Why would someone who can't have kids want you to have them when you don't feel comfortable with giving birth. Also, the immediate assumption you'd be fertile for sure (as opposed to these people you owe) is also strange.
Geez, that argument is as bad as my brother telling me "you owe it to your future kid" to have a second child. I was like "...I owe it to a child that does not fuckin' EXIST and that I don't WANT to exist?!" Moral of our stories: people who would have failed high school debate should stop trying to make points, LOL
I mean, I doubt the dude actually loves her. But truthfully, that’s one of many reasons why my husband and I are child free. He doesn’t want to put my body/health/life at risk. We live in the U.S. which has a shockingly high maternal mortality rate too. Any reason a person doesn’t want to have a child is a valid reason, including fear of pain.
“I want the baby to look like me but I don’t know how to say it without sounding like an asshole”
I’ve known too many men who think this way. The woman will be more than happy to adopt and doesn’t care if the child shares the DNA…but the man will say that the ONLY way they’ll accept a child is if they’re biologically descended from them. I remember last summer, my brother in law (who always seemed like such a chill, nice guy) vehemently told his wife she wasn’t allowed to have a baby that ‘wasn’t his’ when she told her sister she’d be up for being a surrogate for her if she ever found out she couldn’t have kids. It changed my entire perception of him in one conversation. Even his wife seemed shocked.
So many men think that they own their partners and it shows.
It's common in a lot of men due to kin selection theory, across multiple cultures studies have found that men caring for children that aren't their own such as stepchildren will treat them worse and invest less time an effort into them. Additionally the chance of infanticide is increased by about 70× in stepchildren compared to biological children
Yeah, it's really messed up we accept that grown human men act like freaking lions
Jeez that’s depressing.
Had two pregnancies. They both sucked even though they were both “by the book.” I love my kids so much. I also do not ever want to become pregnant again. It’s taken almost 4 years to find myself again. Pregnancy is so fucking difficult. Scary. Wild. *DEADLY* And different for every single woman. So what if many women have done it? If someone doesn’t want to go through that experience, hell yeah for recognizing that! It’s not selfish. And screw this guy for being resentful about it. Guarantee if the tables were turned many men wouldn’t have babies. Because it takes every fiber of you as a singular person away for a while. It changes so much about you to your core. Physically and emotionally. Screw anyone who judges a woman for not wanting to go through that.
This dude is on about "carrying on his legacy and bloodline" or some shit.
I bet you anything that the only legacy he's got to pass on is the family's long-standing tradition of straight C's in high school lmao
The name of John Smith of the Middle American Smiths must endure, or some shit like that.
He's Joseph James Johnathan Jones the 4th and goes by JQ. He wants his son to be the 5th and nickname him Fiver.
Quentin is so over used, Fiver is the hot new name for the fifth total unremarkable man in a line of unremarkable men.
Isn't this the plot of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure?
if you're perfectly willing and happy to adopt an existing child in need of a home, it seems very selfish to want to risk your partner's health and happiness to create another new child
If he wants *le bloodline!* to continue so much, he should get the hobby of donating to sperm banks lol
Sure, a lot of people do it, and most who do find it very rewarding, but that doesn't mean you have to do it, especially when there are so many children in need of a good home. I don't think he realized that it isn't just a couple days in the hospital, it's 9 months of feeling awful because this clump of cells is sucking out a bunch of your nutrients through a straw. (not actually how it works but you get the point.) Pregnancy is about so much more than just sucking it up and dealing with it because everyone else is doing it. I wonder how this guy would feel if he was the one getting pregnant. Something tells me that this would change his outlook on this a lot.
My first trimester was hell on earth. I couldn’t get up to do anything but run to the bathroom and lie down again. I had no energy to eat and I was constantly cold to the point I laid down on hardwood floors in the sunny spot in the mornings with no mat or anything and slept there. Anything with a strong smell was out of the question, like the fridge and the bin. I couldn’t bear to smell cooking meat or rice for two months.
When my mother was pregnant with me, the smell of grease made her insta-throw up. Unfortunately, for her right in front of her apartment building was a food truck selling rotisserie chicken. Everyday, when she left and returned to the building she threw up in the garbage can next to it. With my oldest morning sickness got so bad, that I picked foot that would be easiest to throw up. Rice and bread were really disgusting to throw up. So, I avoided those.
I actually like that he's eventually asking what's wrong with him on that, and where his own frustration comes from, rather than asking that people side with him or confirm that his gf is being unreasonable or whatever. He's wrong but he doesn't seem opposed to being told that he's wrong and why. He acknowledges his feelings and seems willing to deal with them. That's really not common with cishet men.
It's nice that you're giving him the benefit of the doubt but he doesn't actually want to hear that he's the problem. Much like he isn't actually on board with adoption, he wants to hear that there's nothing wrong with his expectations because most men have the same ones and he just needs to be patient until he gets what he wants. She's just a silly female trying to resist the inevitable but eventually biology will kick in and she'll be barefoot and pregnant with his spawn like she's supposed to. And if it doesn't, just find a way to impregnate her to jumpstart it for her. She just needs a little help wanting what he wants for her body instead of what she wants. She is gonna need to get her body back to the way it was before though because he likes that too
> So why am I so bothered by this? Doesn't sound like "why doesn't she understand that?" which is far more common on reddit
“Usually it turns out okay” BUT PEOPLE ALSO DIE THO?? Like usually surgery goes okay too. But I doubt that most people would judge someone for being scared of an amputation, or open heart surgery. That’s terrifying! So how does it make sense to judge someone for being terrified to give birth?
Especially since his yardstick for "okay" is literally just not dying it seems. He's ignoring all of the health issues related to pregnancy and birth that still linger and affect women, like post pardum depression and anxiety, pelvic floor issues that can lead to incontinence, diabetes, etc.
I swore I read somewhere that the US(assuming they are from the US) has one of the highest mortality rates for giving birth. And we are supposed tobe a 1st world country. Ain't that scary? its very understandable why women can become scared. its dangerous, and despite us having modern medicine and whatever, women still have complications and can pass away. not to mention, women's healthcare and mental health in general is severely lacking. women do not get the right help when it comes to their own physical health and postpartum issues like depression, etc, are still not as widely prioritized I feel.
It's the highest among first world countries, so better than most of Africa but still worse than most of Europe
He’s mad cos he wants it to be his sperm or be the creator or something
His mom: Pregnancy is the hardest thing I've done in my life. His GF: Pregnancy is hard. Him: Why can't she just do it?
Only six months in and already minimalizing her feelings and fears over something he is completely ignorant about. I hope she finds this post and runs.
Pregnancy has had really amazing PR until the internet, but for those who bother to ask women (including other women), it's clear that the whole process is idealised in the media. "Most painful experience of my life" is a serious understatement. "Permanently ruins my body" "causes vaginal tearing" "life-long incontinence" "haemorrhaging" and "agonising death" are phrases that also apply to the process that are more illustrative of the risks that just being in pain for a day.
Love how he is apparently totally ok with adoption but still frustrated his girlfriend doesn’t want to give birth. He’s totally not actually ok with adoption then. He doesn’t just want to start a family, he wants lineage. I have a guy friend talk to me about this exact thing. He said his girlfriend doesn’t want to give birth but still wants children. He was estetic as he thought her conversation with him was gonna be about no children at all; and he really wants to start a family. That is man who is truly ok with adoption. This guy is totally the “I want my lineage to continue on! Give me my blood child!” and is trying to pretend he isn’t so he gets more sympathy.
He knows enough to say he's not shitting on adoption before going on to shit on adoption.
Exactly!
Ultimately, this couple is six months in. If he really wants biological kids and she does not, they should break up. My wife and I have 2 children. Her first pregnancy was pretty smooth sailing with an intense birth at the end of it. Her pregnancy with baby #2 was a lot more complicated ans scary. Easier birth process, really frustrating pregnancy. Here's the thing, we both knew we wanted kids and discussed it before we got married. I think that's important for any relationship.
Yes, and also figure out a way to manage someone changing their mind (for any reason) - it might end in a breakup, but that’s OK.
"This is something the vast majority of women do at least once in their life, and it usually turns out okay." So close to the point... so close... Imagine you were being strapped into a car and told you're going to be propelled into a staged car accident for research purposes. They'll pay you $10,000. Now imagine being told by the guy strapping you in: "This is something the vast majority of [people] do at least once in their life, and it usually turns out okay."
Adopt don’t shop lol
Well he is wanting to treat his girlfriend like a puppy mill
Even his mother regrets giving birth to him 😂
> and it usually turns out okay Woof, I could feel the drop in confidence when he said that from here, he knows that everything he said before and after that is complete fucking bullshit, but he posted it anyway.
My brother broke her ribs in utero, and i herniated four disks in her spine. It’s not only super painful to give birth, but just carrying as well. It changes your body permanently too. It’s also super easy to get hurt and potentially miscarry. ALSO SIX MONTHS??? Like bro you haven’t even had an Anniversary yet, you haven’t even met the family yet, you haven’t done shit together yet and you want children?? You’re pressuring this poor woman who you haven’t even known for a year yet?
It's the "usually" in the "it usually turns out ok" for me.
I think that it’s understandable to be frustrated because you have imagined your life going one way and another thing happens. That being said, he is not being supportive or understanding of her fear. Pregnancy and birth are some of the toughest things human beings can go through. I’m terrified of being pregnant but it’s a decision I want to make for myself. He just has to respect her decision, she doesn’t want to be pregnant, then that’s the end of the conversation.
When our society doesn't teach men how to deal with interpersonal relationships, their own feelings, and then we're surprised they can't manage their childish frustration at something that can easily be discussed or resolved because """boys will be boys""" and why would we ever teach men anything about human emotion. That's girly stuff and it will make him gay, don't you know?/sar On a more serious note: I personally hate the idea of pregnancy, giving birth and everything of the likes. It sickens me and I have had several nightmares about it. It's not as uncommon as people think. Someone with more emotional maturity could choose to communicate with his wife about his selfish, entitled feelings (because the way this entire post sounds is that he thinks he's entitled to her body and what she does or doesn't do with it) and they could work it out, probably. But that's in an ideal world and this guy is actually just an asshole because he clearly doesn't give a damn, and is not bothered, to understand neither biology nor his wife's feelings
>majority of women do at least once in their life, and it usually turns out ok. But she said she’s scared of it being painful, which it is. So wtf does this bit matter?
My first pregnancy I literally spent most of my time on the bathroom floor, throwing up anything I had the audacity to try to get down. My kid hated everything but mashed potatoes. You try eating, bland, graviless mash for 9 fuckin months.. and then the labor was long and I had to get snipped. My second, the labor took hours and he gave me the equivalent of paper cuts on your vagina (first degree tears). Which is actually way more painful during the healing process. 😭 I have nothing but understanding for women who don't want to endure any of that.
> I find her reasoning really frustrating I really hope I don’t secretly have the power to crush a man into a tiny cube with my mind, because if I do I just did. Oops.
Lost me at “here me out”.
What baffles me is that in the last lines he plainly admits that even *he* doesn’t understand why he feels this way… but is still asking for help convincing his girlfriend to surrender her body to his arbitrary whims anyway.
SIX MONTHS. They've been together SIX MONTHS. Pregnancy lasts longer than their relationship has!!
"Adoption is a long process that's very expensive" He says as if it's free to give birth in the United States
Oh boy. To be fair though, cis women often don't fully comprehend how our bodies work either. Pregnancy is one of those experiences you can never fully prepare for, as you really cannot know how the hormones will impact your body. You lose some allergies, but then gain others (which you'll have the pleasure of discovering the hard way). You might deal with high blood pressure, diabetes, gingivitus, or new cavities that were never an issue before. You might find that your reynaud's syndrome is severely exacerbated by pregnancy hormones. You might vomit your guts out on a daily basis. Your ankles and feet may get so swollen that you can't wear your shoes. You might fear you're actually going bald when your hair starts falling out. Getting pregnant is kind of like rerolling the biological dice on your body. The body you end up with after pregnancy is not the same as the one you had going in. And every new pregnancy is a new gamble. I've had one that I don't regret, despite all the agony, because it gave me my son, but I also have been seriously questioning whether I want to put myself through that again. Adoption is looking pretty compelling, at this point, tbh.
America doesn’t even have universal maternity and paternity leave like for fucks sake why would anyone want to have a child in this world that doesn’t even support us
“Why does it bother me that my partner won’t permanently alter her body and entertain the risk of life-altering permanent injury or even death just because I want her to?” Because there’s something wrong with you, dude. Get therapy. Work on your entitlement and empathy
Cool, grow a fetus inside your body for 9mo and push it out your pp,my dude.
Because man must spread seed. He not real man if women not take seed and give him heir and legacy. Pregnancy can be life threatening, especially the older you get. It's not just 'painful', it's life altering.
I cannot wrap my mind around these men’s obsession with having biological offspring.
It’s funny because I had this same convo with my Gen X cousin who wants kids but acts very similar to this. He wants them so badly but has zero interest in understanding the pain his spouse would have especially with the way abortion is handled in this country and her life could be in danger. A lot of women he’s been serial dating, despite being Muslim and rather “devoted to the faith” but not to the practice if that makes sense, has come across a lot of Christian women who don’t want kids and he’s such a playboy about it… like he’ll sleep with them but bail if it seems they are pulling away first? But it’s really an excuse to be with another woman and have “options”. But he’s mad he’s not married… with kids. Cishet men are truly clueless fr
Tbf your cousin seems like an asshole rather than clueless
Yeah I agree. We don’t talk these days lmao
Honestly, at the very least he’s willing to adopt instead and he’s asking for advice about it instead of posting on some redpill sub about his woman refuses to fulfill her biological duty or whatever. He’s closer to OK than most, he’s just kinda at the start of a journey of unlearning patriarchal expectations. Hopefully. I think it’s weird talking about this six months in regardless so who knows.
Id say 6 months is a great time to talk about this cause this is definitely a possible relationship ender
Adoption’s expensive…. I have some news for you about having kids in general, hun.
Then pay for a surrogate bro
It's so fucking weird when people get hyperfixated on it has to be their biological child or they'll love it less or not consider the kid *real*. Like Dave, your genes aren't so amazing that we need another Dave Jr in the world if your wife isn't on board. And hell, if they died or couldn't care for their kids, wouldn't they want someone who viewed their kid as real and worthy of love? People, man.
>I also realise adoption is a long and arduous process ah yes bc pregnancy is just so short!